October 17, 2025 • 26 mins
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In this episode, we explore how neural-network AI pairs with Brain-State Intelligence® — the foundation of Human-AI Performance Psychology — to help you outsource busy work, focus on high-impact thinking, and build habits that actually stick.
You’ll hear practical frameworks, real-world examples, and a clear path to becoming healthier, happier, and more effective in the AI era.
What You’ll Learn:
• Why habits fail without Brain-State awareness
• Recharge, Medium-Charge, and High-Charge explained
• Agentic AI vs. LLMs — and when to use each
• How to outsource Medium-Charge tasks to reclaim energy
• Accelerating High-Charge work with AI co-working
• Real gains in productivity, cost, and effectiveness
• A 30-day plan and daily strategic ritual
• Future roles: Innovators, Automators, and AI Performance Coaches
• Where to start and how to build momentum
🎧 Listen now to discover how Human-AI Performance Psychology can help you think better, perform smarter, and thrive in the age of AI.
📘 Learn more at tougherminds.co.uk
— and get your copy of Train Your Brain for the AI Revolution for just $1, plus details on our Certified Habit Mechanic® Coaching Program.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hello, Habit Mechanics, Dr.
John Finn here.
I hope you're having a fantasticweek so far.
I've been busy guesting on quitea few people's podcasts in the
last few months, so I'm gonnarelease a few here.
So this is an interview that Idid on the Lifeblood podcast a
(00:21):
couple of weeks ago talkingabout AI and brains, my
speciality.
Enjoy.
SPEAKER_00 (00:44):
John Finn is the founder of Tougher Minds.
He is the creator of the fieldof AI human performance
psychology.
He is, of course, a best-sellingauthor.
Welcome back to the show, John.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
Hey George, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
Great to be back.
Excited to have you back on.
Refresh our memories.
Tell us about your personallives, more about your work and
why you do what you do.
SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
Yeah, well, I don't have much of a personal life to
be honest with you, because I Ijust blend, I just love what I
do, so it all blends together.
But um the last time I was on,we were talking about becoming a
habit mechanic because we knowthat knowing what to do to be at
our best is useless unless webuild habits to automate um the
(01:35):
things that we know we need tobe doing, everything from better
sleep, diet exercise to stressmanagement, how we build
confidence, how we focus, how westay productive, how we lead,
how we parent.
So we know that building habitsis the key because our brain is
designed to save energy.
So it turns everything it caninto an automatic or
(01:58):
semi-automatic thinking anddoing process.
And then since then, we've gotthis new technology called
Neural Network AI that is thefirst time we have a technology
that is specifically designed towork how our brain works.
So this was obviously veryinteresting to us.
So over the last maybe 18 monthsor so, we've been really playing
(02:22):
about with the tools that areavailable, and then maybe about
12 months ago, we were socompelled about the potential of
this technology for helpingpeople to really outsource the
stuff that they don't want to bedoing, what we call
medium-charge brain state work,but also to go faster with the
high impact, high charge,complex problem solving,
(02:45):
strategic thinking, the kind ofthing that we need to do to move
our lives forward, to movethings we're doing at work
forwards.
We can use AI to help us to dothat stuff faster, more
efficiently, more effectively.
So we decided to really embracethe AI, and our mission is to
become the world leading uhthinkers in human AI performance
(03:10):
psychology.
We have invented that field, sowe are currently at the head of
the curve.
But we want to equip people withthe skills.
Well, the knowledge, first ofall, not to be scared of AI,
because I think if we get itright, it can be a hugely
beneficial thing.
But also the skills to be ableto build it into your daily
(03:31):
workflows so that you canoutsource more of your medium
charge, habit-based, busy workand free yourself up to do more
of your high charge, highimpacts, things that make you
feel good about yourself at theend of the day, make you feel
good about yourself at the endof the week.
And that's why I wrote TrainYour Brain for the AI
(03:51):
revolution, and it's why we'realso training people to become
um certified habit mechaniccoaches, which I think is the
essential skill for beingsuccessful in the AI era.
And it's not necessarily aboutcoaching other people if you
don't want to go there, it'sfirst of all about coaching
yourself so you can actuallymove from knowing to building
(04:15):
the habits that allow you to behealthy, happy, and at your best
in the AI era.
So that's what we've beenworking on, George.
So we've been pretty busy.
SPEAKER_00 (04:23):
Yeah, I can only imagine.
So how do you how do you sussout what is a good opportunity
versus what is a, I don't wantto say bad, but I'm sure that
there's so many different new AIthings that are popping up,
probably right, probably severaljust just just just kind of
popped up.
SPEAKER_01 (04:41):
Do you mean for uh for our own business?
SPEAKER_00 (04:44):
Yeah, well, just for sure.
I I I suppose for all of it,because I'm sure most of it's
probably noise.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
Yeah, I think we need a framework to think about
AI and how it can help us.
And the way that we think aboutthis is in the context of how
our brain works.
So our brain is the most complexthing in the known universe.
(05:11):
So we don't want to get buggeddown in all the micro details of
brain function, but a reallyhelpful way to think about our
brains and how they work is thatour brain is a bit like a
battery and it only has so muchcharge in every 24-hour period,
and you know, neurobiologically,it literally is like a battery,
it runs on electricity andchemicals, neurotransmitters,
(05:34):
and in every 24-hour period,people typically operate in
three core brain states.
So the first brain state we callrecharge, and we that could be
sleeping.
We can also do non-sleeprecharge like switching off,
etc.
The second brain state is mediumcharge.
(05:56):
This is where we're on, we'reprobably busy, we're not really
thinking too much, we're just onhabit mode.
Um and that's where our brainlikes to be because it's kind of
on doing something, getting someshort-term gratification hits,
but it's not spending too muchenergy.
And then we have the high chargebrain state mode.
This is where we're doing ourcomplex, clever, high-impact
(06:19):
thinking, doing, learning.
It's a brain state we need to bein if we want to build better
habits, like better sleephabits.
It's a brain state we need to bein to be thinking at our best.
And we can think of AI inrelation to those three brain
(06:41):
states.
There are two broad types of AI.
One is agentic AI, which isbecoming more visible every
single day, and we can useagentic AI, and just one simple
example of that is how I bookedon this podcast.
I used your um booking app, Ithought I can't remember what it
(07:02):
was, but maybe it was Calendly.
So instead of us going back andforth to trying to find a date,
and then you sending me aninvitation manually, I just go
into your system and I book itautomatically.
That's that's a version ofagentic AI, but agentic I is
getting much more sophisticatedthan that.
It's able to do tasks on yourbehalf.
Um, so we can use agentic AI tooutsource more of our medium
(07:28):
charge, busy work.
The stuff that might make usfeel good in the moment, but we
don't typically enjoy doing forlong periods of time.
And then the other type of AI isLLMs, large language models,
things like Chat GTP, Claude.
Increasingly, there are more uhcontext-specific versions.
(07:48):
We can co-work with LLMs to getour high-charge tasks done
faster.
So instead of it instead oftaking you a full day to write a
new proposal for a client, youcould maybe do it in one hour.
Because it's like working withum a co-worker who's an expert
(08:13):
and it's on demand and it'sreally cheap.
So instead of paying aconsultant a lot of money to
co-work with you, you can usethese LLMs.
So if I'm looking at new AItools, I'm thinking, where do
they sit in this continuum?
Is it a Gentec or is it an LLMor is it a hybrid?
And what kind of tasks am Idoing right now?
(08:35):
Could I use the AI to eitherautomate or to speed up?
And that's all the tech is.
It's just a tool we can use toget us the stuff that we need to
get done every day done faster.
So that's how I'm thinking aboutit.
And then we're using what wecall the AI edge success cycle
(08:58):
to help people to build habitsto allow them to seamlessly
integrate these new tools intotheir daily workflows, which I
can speak more about if you wantme to.
SPEAKER_00 (09:10):
Yeah, I've definitely um maybe we could fit
in what what do I stand to gain?
Is it knowable?
I can increase my productivityby 1%, 5% kind of stuff, or and
maybe what do I stand to lose ifI don't do this?
Am I going to get left behind?
SPEAKER_01 (09:29):
Yeah, I think we've come through or we're coming
through a period where the sortof naysayers about the potential
of AI in terms of how it canhelp people every day.
Um those the stories about whyit can't help us are being um
(09:55):
proven wrong, for want of abetter term.
Because as people use thetechnology, they're seeing how
powerful it is.
So we're moving to a world whereAI is not just a nice thing to
have, it's an essential part ofworkflows.
If we look at businesses, theirfiduciary responsibility is to
(10:16):
make money for shareholders,whether we think that's good or
bad, that is how our society isset up.
So everyone's looking all thetime, how do we do things more
efficiently and moreeffectively?
So, what businesses have beendoing is they've been testing
out different AIs, they've beenbuilding their own, and they've
(10:37):
now got lots of valuable casestudies that show if they use AI
in the right way, they're ableto get things done faster, more
effectively, cheaper.
So we're making this transitionfrom teams of humans to teams of
humans that are co-working withAI, both agentic and LLMs.
(10:57):
And that's just going to be thereality of the world we live in.
Here's a really interesting uhstory, hopefully.
So I was watching at the weekenda documentary about Led Zeppelin
um from the late 60s, and thevery interesting thing about Led
Zeppelin is they went from notbeing a band to being one of the
(11:19):
biggest bands ever within 12months.
And part of how they were ableto do that is because Jimmy Page
and John Paul Jones, they sincethey were being since they were
left school, so since they were16, they were working as session
(11:39):
musicians for some of thebiggest bands in the world, on
some of the biggest uh moviesoundtracks in the world,
working in these London studioslike Abbey Road.
By the time they formed LedZepp, they were probably 24, 25.
So they had this immenseknowledge, not only of how to
master their own instruments,but how to use music technology
(12:04):
to make things sound in a veryspecific way.
What I found really interestingabout watching that documentary
was how many people wereinvolved in making music, and
how now, if we fast forward totoday, you can do the same thing
with an app.
So we stripped out the maybe 30people that we needed and the
(12:28):
tech, and we can just do it inan app now.
Now, the music technology is avery niche sector, so in the UK
is a very London-centric thing.
Uh, in the States, you've gotprobably Los Angeles, New York,
right?
What the AI, neural network AI,does is it scales that same
basic idea of it used to takelots of people to do this, and
(12:51):
now we can do it with just a fewpeople and some very cheap
technology, it scales that intoeverybody's jobs, so that's
what's happening.
Um but so it's not going away.
Should I use it, should I notuse it?
You're gonna get left behind ifyou don't start learning how to
(13:12):
use it.
And what we're seeing is is whenyou start to build it into your
workflows, it's the foundationfor being a healthier, happier,
higher performing you because itmakes it easier to do the kind
of thinking and the kind ofstuff in your life that makes
you feel good about yourself.
(13:32):
So by outsourcing more of themedium charge, busy work, and by
getting the high charge, highimpact stuff actually done and
done faster, it means we gotmore downtime, more free time
for ourselves to sleep better,to eat better, to exercise like
we want to.
Um, we're not spending all dayon, on, on busy, busy, busy,
(13:55):
busy, never getting anythingdone, never getting actually to
that project or the thing I wantto do in my life that makes me
feel good because I don't havethe cognitive capacity to do
that.
AI changes that.
So I'd really encourage peopleto not be scared of the tech, to
(14:17):
try and test some things out andtest that out within the brain
state framework we've created.
And in Train Your Brain forTheir Revolution, it's not a
book that has 10 chaptersrepeating the same idea with
different contexts.
It's a self-help, self-guide tounderstanding your brain states
where they're currently at,creating a long-term strategic
(14:39):
plan, and then focusing that onthe next 30 days, thinking about
what are the kind of high chargetasks I need to get done in the
next 30 days, what are themedium charge tasks and where
might AI come into this?
It gives you then a dailystrategic tool so you can plan
properly.
It's called the willpower story,and then we give you a habit
(15:00):
building process so you canactually build the habit of
using your daily strategic tooland actually not just knowing
about what you need to get doneor what AI tools it might be
helpful to start using, butbuilding the habits of doing
that.
And we're seeing, and you canlearn that in under three hours.
And we actually just made thebook available for one dollar on
(15:20):
our website.
But then in 30 days, we'reseeing people make really
significant progress in theirown lives.
Um so whether we like it or not,this tech is not going away.
So my my advice would be tostart using it.
And what why the tech's sointeresting to me is because I
(15:42):
see it, it's an accelerator forchanging any behavior that we
want to change in our life,whether that's building better
sleep habits, managing stressbetter, being a better parent,
being a better leader, beingmore focused and effective.
The technology helps us to speedup behavior change.
Because instead of having to doit all ourselves, we can
(16:05):
outsource elements to the AI.
Just in the same way that wewould have previously outsourced
it to human beings.
Um, we can now do it to atechnology that's cheap, that's
ever-present, and that can beour companion as we go on our
journey to achieving the thingsthat we want to achieve in our
(16:26):
lives that actually make us feelgood about ourselves.
SPEAKER_00 (16:31):
Well, I think it's really exciting the way that
you've laid it out and the LedZeppelin story is perfect
because I think a lot of usfeel, and I certainly have felt
in the past, oh, I'moverwhelmed, and it's it's it's
it's too late, I'm not gonna beable to get this done.
And you go from not being a bandto the biggest band in 12
months, is is that thingexciting?
And you're talking about howit's gonna free us up, new
(16:53):
technologies, AI, it's gonnafree us up to do more of what we
really want to do.
So I think that that is a reallyexciting thing.
Um and human nature is is suchthat even though we know
something's a good thing,doesn't mean we're gonna execute
on it.
So do you have you've you've nowmade these resources.
You've you've created thisfield, you've you've written a
(17:15):
book, several books, and a newbook about this.
You you also have a course thatthat people can access.
But we need to do it and notjust think about it.
Talk to me a little bit aboutthat.
SPEAKER_01 (17:28):
Yeah, so the tech is frightening.
It's inherently frightening.
You know, technological changehas always been difficult.
Uh, you know, I know people thatonly started checking their
emails, you know, 10 years ago,even though they've had access
to them for 20 years, right?
Um, but the AI tech is fasterand in terms of how it's coming
(17:51):
at us, it's had the mostinvested across any technology.
Already it's over, it's probablymoving towards 2 trillion of
investment.
Just go to the um the SP 500 orthe Nasdaq, look at the top
companies in terms of value,they're all AI related.
Um, so we have to go we have tounderstand that this is not
(18:15):
going away.
Um, and that if we start to useit, it's gonna make our life
easier.
Um, so I would say that thefirst thing I would do is I'd
get a copy of this book becauseI've I've written it to help you
to move from knowing to doing tohabit.
(18:36):
Um, and you can get through thebook in as little as four hours
and you can learn the system inthree hours.
So that starts to take care ofthe why, but also gives you some
very practical things you can bedoing very quickly to start
integrating these tools intoyour daily workflows.
And then as soon as you do that,you see the benefits, and it's
(18:56):
by seeing the benefits thatcreates forward momentum.
Um, but I also think that thereis a I think that um people who
are experts in human AIperformance, not teaching people
how to use Chat GTP, but gettinghumans and AI working really
well together, you know, it'salmost like learning how to
(19:18):
drive a Formula One car reallywell.
People who are experts athelping others to do that are
going to be one of the mostin-demand group of professionals
on the planet.
So there's a huge opportunity toestablish um another string to
your bow or even an entirely newcareer for yourself in this
(19:41):
field.
And that's why we're trainingpeople to become certified
coaches so they can really startto understand how to use these
tools for themselves, but alsohow to help others to use them.
And I think going forwards, I'mnot sure how far into the future
this will be, but there will bethree core professional groups.
One will be the innovators,people who spend their days
(20:04):
innovating what the future willlook like.
How do we cure X disease?
How do we create an educationsystem that actually works?
How do we build buildings thatactually absorb CO2 instead of
kicking it out?
So people that are going tospend all day long working,
co-working with AI to solvethese huge, endless, complex
(20:25):
problems that we need to solveas humans.
And there'll be another group ofpeople called the automators.
They'll be the people who figureout how do they build the
hardware and the software to getthe stuff done that the
innovators have worked out thesolutions to, um, whether that's
building these buildings fasteror changing the education system
(20:47):
faster, whatever it is.
And the third group will be thehuman AI performance psychology
coaches, people that are helpingthe automators and the
innovators get really good atmanaging their brain states.
So we think that brain stateintelligence is going to become
the most important form ofintelligence for helping people
(21:08):
to be at their best.
You know, the tech's quite easy,George, because it's had so much
invested into it.
What many people don't recognizeis that just the free version of
Chat GTP or Claude is like it'shad about$400 million invested
into it and it's available atyour fingertips for free.
(21:29):
Um so they're easy to use, theydon't come with an instruction
manual, it's just about you useit, you know, you learn how to
use it by using it essentially.
But um building the habits ofusing it really well, so people
can get good at almost using itlike a Formula One car.
Um, people are gonna need helpwith that, and it's not so it's
(21:52):
not help learning the tech, it'shelp building the habits.
So, yeah, so I think there's areally exciting um future for
people who get good at buildingthese AI tools into their
workflows, especially if youunderstand it through the lens
of Brent State intelligence.
SPEAKER_00 (22:14):
Well, it's exciting, and I'm certainly grateful that
you and your team have investedthe time to help figure it out
and and to break it down into away that's consumable and
learnable and actionable.
I think that those are the allthe bulls that I can think about
for right now.
So, John, thank you so much forcoming back on.
(22:34):
And and again, thanks thanks forall the work.
Where can people learn more?
How can they engage?
Tell us about the book and thecourses and and and everything
else you're working on.
SPEAKER_01 (22:43):
Yeah, so if you go to tougherminds.co.uk, that's
where you can get the book forone dollar.
And then you can also learn moreabout our coaching certification
and the other things that we'redoing.
I'm on LinkedIn at Dr John Finn,J-O-N-F-I-N-.
(23:05):
Um and yeah, they're just thetwo main places that I'd go.
And the key thing is is just togive it a go.
Don't be scared of it.
It's natural to be scared, butwe're gonna be we're gonna
overcome that fear by tryingsomething out, seeing the
results we can get.
(23:26):
And this is thetransformational, not just to
get work done faster, but toimprove how we sleep, how we
eat, how we exercise, how welook after our brain, how we
manage stress, how we build ourconfidence up, how we perform
under pressure, how we becomemore focused and productive, how
we become better leaders, betterparents, better human beings.
I really believe it allows us tojust be better versions of
(23:52):
ourselves because we canoutsource brain power basically
in a very cost-effective way.
And we unpack all of that insideof um train your brain for the
AR evolution and the habitmechanic as well, if you haven't
already read that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:07):
Excellent.
Well, if you enjoyed as much asI did, show John your
appreciation.
Share today's show with a friendwho also appreciates good ideas.
Go to tougherminds.co.uk.
Yes.
For uh just all things, Dr.
John Finn, and you can get yourcopy of Train Your Brain for the
AI Revolution there.
(24:28):
And certainly if you've not readthe Habit Mechanic, pick up your
copy of that as well and getstarted figuring out how you
can.
Well, probably it's probably anice thing and a very kind thing
to do to our brains to allowthem to focus on the things that
it really wants to focus on andtake some of the other stuff off
the brain's plate.
SPEAKER_01 (24:49):
I don't know if that's a good way to describe it
or not, John, but well, thrivein the AI era because you know
the world is increasinglygetting complicated.
So it's you know, it's harderand harder to be at our best.
So we've got to start ingrainingthose habits now.
So that as even more furiouslevels of change come towards
(25:10):
us, um, we've got some reallygood foundational habits,
behaviors that stand us in goodstead.
Because I think whatever changewe've seen in the world before
is gonna be a tiny compared towhat's coming.
Um, and what's coming we can useto our advantage to propel
(25:30):
ourselves and our livesforwards, or you know, we can
potentially get crushed by it.
Um, so that's why the habits areso key.
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
Love it.
Well, thank you again, John.
Thank you, George.
It's been a pleasure.
And until next time, remember doyour part by doing your best.
Hello, Habit Mechanics, Dr.
John Finn here.
I hope you're having a fantasticweek so far.
I've been busy guesting on quitea few people's podcasts in the
last few months, so I'm gonnarelease a few here.
So this is an interview that Idid on the Lifeblood podcast a
(00:21):
couple of weeks ago talkingabout AI and brains, my
speciality.
Enjoy.
SPEAKER_00 (00:44):
John Finn is the founder of Tougher Minds.
He is the creator of the fieldof AI human performance
psychology.
He is, of course, a best-sellingauthor.
Welcome back to the show, John.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
Hey George, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
Great to be back.
Excited to have you back on.
Refresh our memories.
Tell us about your personallives, more about your work and
why you do what you do.
SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
Yeah, well, I don't have much of a personal life to
be honest with you, because I Ijust blend, I just love what I
do, so it all blends together.
But um the last time I was on,we were talking about becoming a
habit mechanic because we knowthat knowing what to do to be at
our best is useless unless webuild habits to automate um the
(01:35):
things that we know we need tobe doing, everything from better
sleep, diet exercise to stressmanagement, how we build
confidence, how we focus, how westay productive, how we lead,
how we parent.
So we know that building habitsis the key because our brain is
designed to save energy.
So it turns everything it caninto an automatic or
(01:58):
semi-automatic thinking anddoing process.
And then since then, we've gotthis new technology called
Neural Network AI that is thefirst time we have a technology
that is specifically designed towork how our brain works.
So this was obviously veryinteresting to us.
So over the last maybe 18 monthsor so, we've been really playing
(02:22):
about with the tools that areavailable, and then maybe about
12 months ago, we were socompelled about the potential of
this technology for helpingpeople to really outsource the
stuff that they don't want to bedoing, what we call
medium-charge brain state work,but also to go faster with the
high impact, high charge,complex problem solving,
(02:45):
strategic thinking, the kind ofthing that we need to do to move
our lives forward, to movethings we're doing at work
forwards.
We can use AI to help us to dothat stuff faster, more
efficiently, more effectively.
So we decided to really embracethe AI, and our mission is to
become the world leading uhthinkers in human AI performance
(03:10):
psychology.
We have invented that field, sowe are currently at the head of
the curve.
But we want to equip people withthe skills.
Well, the knowledge, first ofall, not to be scared of AI,
because I think if we get itright, it can be a hugely
beneficial thing.
But also the skills to be ableto build it into your daily
(03:31):
workflows so that you canoutsource more of your medium
charge, habit-based, busy workand free yourself up to do more
of your high charge, highimpacts, things that make you
feel good about yourself at theend of the day, make you feel
good about yourself at the endof the week.
And that's why I wrote TrainYour Brain for the AI
(03:51):
revolution, and it's why we'realso training people to become
um certified habit mechaniccoaches, which I think is the
essential skill for beingsuccessful in the AI era.
And it's not necessarily aboutcoaching other people if you
don't want to go there, it'sfirst of all about coaching
yourself so you can actuallymove from knowing to building
(04:15):
the habits that allow you to behealthy, happy, and at your best
in the AI era.
So that's what we've beenworking on, George.
So we've been pretty busy.
SPEAKER_00 (04:23):
Yeah, I can only imagine.
So how do you how do you sussout what is a good opportunity
versus what is a, I don't wantto say bad, but I'm sure that
there's so many different new AIthings that are popping up,
probably right, probably severaljust just just just kind of
popped up.
SPEAKER_01 (04:41):
Do you mean for uh for our own business?
SPEAKER_00 (04:44):
Yeah, well, just for sure.
I I I suppose for all of it,because I'm sure most of it's
probably noise.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
Yeah, I think we need a framework to think about
AI and how it can help us.
And the way that we think aboutthis is in the context of how
our brain works.
So our brain is the most complexthing in the known universe.
(05:11):
So we don't want to get buggeddown in all the micro details of
brain function, but a reallyhelpful way to think about our
brains and how they work is thatour brain is a bit like a
battery and it only has so muchcharge in every 24-hour period,
and you know, neurobiologically,it literally is like a battery,
it runs on electricity andchemicals, neurotransmitters,
(05:34):
and in every 24-hour period,people typically operate in
three core brain states.
So the first brain state we callrecharge, and we that could be
sleeping.
We can also do non-sleeprecharge like switching off,
etc.
The second brain state is mediumcharge.
(05:56):
This is where we're on, we'reprobably busy, we're not really
thinking too much, we're just onhabit mode.
Um and that's where our brainlikes to be because it's kind of
on doing something, getting someshort-term gratification hits,
but it's not spending too muchenergy.
And then we have the high chargebrain state mode.
This is where we're doing ourcomplex, clever, high-impact
(06:19):
thinking, doing, learning.
It's a brain state we need to bein if we want to build better
habits, like better sleephabits.
It's a brain state we need to bein to be thinking at our best.
And we can think of AI inrelation to those three brain
(06:41):
states.
There are two broad types of AI.
One is agentic AI, which isbecoming more visible every
single day, and we can useagentic AI, and just one simple
example of that is how I bookedon this podcast.
I used your um booking app, Ithought I can't remember what it
(07:02):
was, but maybe it was Calendly.
So instead of us going back andforth to trying to find a date,
and then you sending me aninvitation manually, I just go
into your system and I book itautomatically.
That's that's a version ofagentic AI, but agentic I is
getting much more sophisticatedthan that.
It's able to do tasks on yourbehalf.
Um, so we can use agentic AI tooutsource more of our medium
(07:28):
charge, busy work.
The stuff that might make usfeel good in the moment, but we
don't typically enjoy doing forlong periods of time.
And then the other type of AI isLLMs, large language models,
things like Chat GTP, Claude.
Increasingly, there are more uhcontext-specific versions.
(07:48):
We can co-work with LLMs to getour high-charge tasks done
faster.
So instead of it instead oftaking you a full day to write a
new proposal for a client, youcould maybe do it in one hour.
Because it's like working withum a co-worker who's an expert
(08:13):
and it's on demand and it'sreally cheap.
So instead of paying aconsultant a lot of money to
co-work with you, you can usethese LLMs.
So if I'm looking at new AItools, I'm thinking, where do
they sit in this continuum?
Is it a Gentec or is it an LLMor is it a hybrid?
And what kind of tasks am Idoing right now?
(08:35):
Could I use the AI to eitherautomate or to speed up?
And that's all the tech is.
It's just a tool we can use toget us the stuff that we need to
get done every day done faster.
So that's how I'm thinking aboutit.
And then we're using what wecall the AI edge success cycle
(08:58):
to help people to build habitsto allow them to seamlessly
integrate these new tools intotheir daily workflows, which I
can speak more about if you wantme to.
SPEAKER_00 (09:10):
Yeah, I've definitely um maybe we could fit
in what what do I stand to gain?
Is it knowable?
I can increase my productivityby 1%, 5% kind of stuff, or and
maybe what do I stand to lose ifI don't do this?
Am I going to get left behind?
SPEAKER_01 (09:29):
Yeah, I think we've come through or we're coming
through a period where the sortof naysayers about the potential
of AI in terms of how it canhelp people every day.
Um those the stories about whyit can't help us are being um
(09:55):
proven wrong, for want of abetter term.
Because as people use thetechnology, they're seeing how
powerful it is.
So we're moving to a world whereAI is not just a nice thing to
have, it's an essential part ofworkflows.
If we look at businesses, theirfiduciary responsibility is to
(10:16):
make money for shareholders,whether we think that's good or
bad, that is how our society isset up.
So everyone's looking all thetime, how do we do things more
efficiently and moreeffectively?
So, what businesses have beendoing is they've been testing
out different AIs, they've beenbuilding their own, and they've
(10:37):
now got lots of valuable casestudies that show if they use AI
in the right way, they're ableto get things done faster, more
effectively, cheaper.
So we're making this transitionfrom teams of humans to teams of
humans that are co-working withAI, both agentic and LLMs.
(10:57):
And that's just going to be thereality of the world we live in.
Here's a really interesting uhstory, hopefully.
So I was watching at the weekenda documentary about Led Zeppelin
um from the late 60s, and thevery interesting thing about Led
Zeppelin is they went from notbeing a band to being one of the
(11:19):
biggest bands ever within 12months.
And part of how they were ableto do that is because Jimmy Page
and John Paul Jones, they sincethey were being since they were
left school, so since they were16, they were working as session
(11:39):
musicians for some of thebiggest bands in the world, on
some of the biggest uh moviesoundtracks in the world,
working in these London studioslike Abbey Road.
By the time they formed LedZepp, they were probably 24, 25.
So they had this immenseknowledge, not only of how to
master their own instruments,but how to use music technology
(12:04):
to make things sound in a veryspecific way.
What I found really interestingabout watching that documentary
was how many people wereinvolved in making music, and
how now, if we fast forward totoday, you can do the same thing
with an app.
So we stripped out the maybe 30people that we needed and the
(12:28):
tech, and we can just do it inan app now.
Now, the music technology is avery niche sector, so in the UK
is a very London-centric thing.
Uh, in the States, you've gotprobably Los Angeles, New York,
right?
What the AI, neural network AI,does is it scales that same
basic idea of it used to takelots of people to do this, and
(12:51):
now we can do it with just a fewpeople and some very cheap
technology, it scales that intoeverybody's jobs, so that's
what's happening.
Um but so it's not going away.
Should I use it, should I notuse it?
You're gonna get left behind ifyou don't start learning how to
(13:12):
use it.
And what we're seeing is is whenyou start to build it into your
workflows, it's the foundationfor being a healthier, happier,
higher performing you because itmakes it easier to do the kind
of thinking and the kind ofstuff in your life that makes
you feel good about yourself.
(13:32):
So by outsourcing more of themedium charge, busy work, and by
getting the high charge, highimpact stuff actually done and
done faster, it means we gotmore downtime, more free time
for ourselves to sleep better,to eat better, to exercise like
we want to.
Um, we're not spending all dayon, on, on busy, busy, busy,
(13:55):
busy, never getting anythingdone, never getting actually to
that project or the thing I wantto do in my life that makes me
feel good because I don't havethe cognitive capacity to do
that.
AI changes that.
So I'd really encourage peopleto not be scared of the tech, to
(14:17):
try and test some things out andtest that out within the brain
state framework we've created.
And in Train Your Brain forTheir Revolution, it's not a
book that has 10 chaptersrepeating the same idea with
different contexts.
It's a self-help, self-guide tounderstanding your brain states
where they're currently at,creating a long-term strategic
(14:39):
plan, and then focusing that onthe next 30 days, thinking about
what are the kind of high chargetasks I need to get done in the
next 30 days, what are themedium charge tasks and where
might AI come into this?
It gives you then a dailystrategic tool so you can plan
properly.
It's called the willpower story,and then we give you a habit
(15:00):
building process so you canactually build the habit of
using your daily strategic tooland actually not just knowing
about what you need to get doneor what AI tools it might be
helpful to start using, butbuilding the habits of doing
that.
And we're seeing, and you canlearn that in under three hours.
And we actually just made thebook available for one dollar on
(15:20):
our website.
But then in 30 days, we'reseeing people make really
significant progress in theirown lives.
Um so whether we like it or not,this tech is not going away.
So my my advice would be tostart using it.
And what why the tech's sointeresting to me is because I
(15:42):
see it, it's an accelerator forchanging any behavior that we
want to change in our life,whether that's building better
sleep habits, managing stressbetter, being a better parent,
being a better leader, beingmore focused and effective.
The technology helps us to speedup behavior change.
Because instead of having to doit all ourselves, we can
(16:05):
outsource elements to the AI.
Just in the same way that wewould have previously outsourced
it to human beings.
Um, we can now do it to atechnology that's cheap, that's
ever-present, and that can beour companion as we go on our
journey to achieving the thingsthat we want to achieve in our
(16:26):
lives that actually make us feelgood about ourselves.
SPEAKER_00 (16:31):
Well, I think it's really exciting the way that
you've laid it out and the LedZeppelin story is perfect
because I think a lot of usfeel, and I certainly have felt
in the past, oh, I'moverwhelmed, and it's it's it's
it's too late, I'm not gonna beable to get this done.
And you go from not being a bandto the biggest band in 12
months, is is that thingexciting?
And you're talking about howit's gonna free us up, new
(16:53):
technologies, AI, it's gonnafree us up to do more of what we
really want to do.
So I think that that is a reallyexciting thing.
Um and human nature is is suchthat even though we know
something's a good thing,doesn't mean we're gonna execute
on it.
So do you have you've you've nowmade these resources.
You've you've created thisfield, you've you've written a
(17:15):
book, several books, and a newbook about this.
You you also have a course thatthat people can access.
But we need to do it and notjust think about it.
Talk to me a little bit aboutthat.
SPEAKER_01 (17:28):
Yeah, so the tech is frightening.
It's inherently frightening.
You know, technological changehas always been difficult.
Uh, you know, I know people thatonly started checking their
emails, you know, 10 years ago,even though they've had access
to them for 20 years, right?
Um, but the AI tech is fasterand in terms of how it's coming
(17:51):
at us, it's had the mostinvested across any technology.
Already it's over, it's probablymoving towards 2 trillion of
investment.
Just go to the um the SP 500 orthe Nasdaq, look at the top
companies in terms of value,they're all AI related.
Um, so we have to go we have tounderstand that this is not
(18:15):
going away.
Um, and that if we start to useit, it's gonna make our life
easier.
Um, so I would say that thefirst thing I would do is I'd
get a copy of this book becauseI've I've written it to help you
to move from knowing to doing tohabit.
(18:36):
Um, and you can get through thebook in as little as four hours
and you can learn the system inthree hours.
So that starts to take care ofthe why, but also gives you some
very practical things you can bedoing very quickly to start
integrating these tools intoyour daily workflows.
And then as soon as you do that,you see the benefits, and it's
(18:56):
by seeing the benefits thatcreates forward momentum.
Um, but I also think that thereis a I think that um people who
are experts in human AIperformance, not teaching people
how to use Chat GTP, but gettinghumans and AI working really
well together, you know, it'salmost like learning how to
(19:18):
drive a Formula One car reallywell.
People who are experts athelping others to do that are
going to be one of the mostin-demand group of professionals
on the planet.
So there's a huge opportunity toestablish um another string to
your bow or even an entirely newcareer for yourself in this
(19:41):
field.
And that's why we're trainingpeople to become certified
coaches so they can really startto understand how to use these
tools for themselves, but alsohow to help others to use them.
And I think going forwards, I'mnot sure how far into the future
this will be, but there will bethree core professional groups.
One will be the innovators,people who spend their days
(20:04):
innovating what the future willlook like.
How do we cure X disease?
How do we create an educationsystem that actually works?
How do we build buildings thatactually absorb CO2 instead of
kicking it out?
So people that are going tospend all day long working,
co-working with AI to solvethese huge, endless, complex
(20:25):
problems that we need to solveas humans.
And there'll be another group ofpeople called the automators.
They'll be the people who figureout how do they build the
hardware and the software to getthe stuff done that the
innovators have worked out thesolutions to, um, whether that's
building these buildings fasteror changing the education system
(20:47):
faster, whatever it is.
And the third group will be thehuman AI performance psychology
coaches, people that are helpingthe automators and the
innovators get really good atmanaging their brain states.
So we think that brain stateintelligence is going to become
the most important form ofintelligence for helping people
(21:08):
to be at their best.
You know, the tech's quite easy,George, because it's had so much
invested into it.
What many people don't recognizeis that just the free version of
Chat GTP or Claude is like it'shad about$400 million invested
into it and it's available atyour fingertips for free.
(21:29):
Um so they're easy to use, theydon't come with an instruction
manual, it's just about you useit, you know, you learn how to
use it by using it essentially.
But um building the habits ofusing it really well, so people
can get good at almost using itlike a Formula One car.
Um, people are gonna need helpwith that, and it's not so it's
(21:52):
not help learning the tech, it'shelp building the habits.
So, yeah, so I think there's areally exciting um future for
people who get good at buildingthese AI tools into their
workflows, especially if youunderstand it through the lens
of Brent State intelligence.
SPEAKER_00 (22:14):
Well, it's exciting, and I'm certainly grateful that
you and your team have investedthe time to help figure it out
and and to break it down into away that's consumable and
learnable and actionable.
I think that those are the allthe bulls that I can think about
for right now.
So, John, thank you so much forcoming back on.
(22:34):
And and again, thanks thanks forall the work.
Where can people learn more?
How can they engage?
Tell us about the book and thecourses and and and everything
else you're working on.
SPEAKER_01 (22:43):
Yeah, so if you go to tougherminds.co.uk, that's
where you can get the book forone dollar.
And then you can also learn moreabout our coaching certification
and the other things that we'redoing.
I'm on LinkedIn at Dr John Finn,J-O-N-F-I-N-.
(23:05):
Um and yeah, they're just thetwo main places that I'd go.
And the key thing is is just togive it a go.
Don't be scared of it.
It's natural to be scared, butwe're gonna be we're gonna
overcome that fear by tryingsomething out, seeing the
results we can get.
(23:26):
And this is thetransformational, not just to
get work done faster, but toimprove how we sleep, how we
eat, how we exercise, how welook after our brain, how we
manage stress, how we build ourconfidence up, how we perform
under pressure, how we becomemore focused and productive, how
we become better leaders, betterparents, better human beings.
I really believe it allows us tojust be better versions of
(23:52):
ourselves because we canoutsource brain power basically
in a very cost-effective way.
And we unpack all of that insideof um train your brain for the
AR evolution and the habitmechanic as well, if you haven't
already read that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:07):
Excellent.
Well, if you enjoyed as much asI did, show John your
appreciation.
Share today's show with a friendwho also appreciates good ideas.
Go to tougherminds.co.uk.
Yes.
For uh just all things, Dr.
John Finn, and you can get yourcopy of Train Your Brain for the
AI Revolution there.
(24:28):
And certainly if you've not readthe Habit Mechanic, pick up your
copy of that as well and getstarted figuring out how you
can.
Well, probably it's probably anice thing and a very kind thing
to do to our brains to allowthem to focus on the things that
it really wants to focus on andtake some of the other stuff off
the brain's plate.
SPEAKER_01 (24:49):
I don't know if that's a good way to describe it
or not, John, but well, thrivein the AI era because you know
the world is increasinglygetting complicated.
So it's you know, it's harderand harder to be at our best.
So we've got to start ingrainingthose habits now.
So that as even more furiouslevels of change come towards
(25:10):
us, um, we've got some reallygood foundational habits,
behaviors that stand us in goodstead.
Because I think whatever changewe've seen in the world before
is gonna be a tiny compared towhat's coming.
Um, and what's coming we can useto our advantage to propel
(25:30):
ourselves and our livesforwards, or you know, we can
potentially get crushed by it.
Um, so that's why the habits areso key.
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
Love it.
Well, thank you again, John.
Thank you, George.
It's been a pleasure.
And until next time, remember doyour part by doing your best.
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