Herbalists' Views on the Top-Selling Herbs (Part 4): Green Tea, Fenugreek, Ivy Leaf

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hi, I'm Ryn and I'm here at Commonwealth Holistic
Herbalism in Boston,Massachusetts, and on the
internet everywhere. Thanks tothe power of the podcast today
we're gonna be continuing ourseries on the top selling herbs
in the United States. This ispart four of the series. If you
haven't seen the others, youcan find 'em in our feed right
here. Uh, today we're gonna betalking about green tea and

(00:36):
also black tea and other of those, of the ,
because they're all from thesame plant. We're gonna talk
about fenugreek and about IvyLeaf. So these are , uh, top
sellers, number 10, 11, and 12for the data we've got to work
with. Um, so before I diveright into that, I wanna just
remind everybody, I'm not adoctor. I'm an herbalist. I'm a
holistic health educator. Sothe ideas discussed in this

(00:58):
podcast do not constitutemedical advice. No state or
federal authority licensesherbalist in the us . So these
discussions, these episodes arefor educational purposes only.
I wanna remind you that goodhealth doesn't mean the same
thing for everyone. Good healthdoesn't exist as an objective
standard. It's influenced byyour individual needs, your
experiences, and your goals. Soplease keep in mind I'm not

(01:21):
attempting to present a singledogmatic right way that you
must adhere to. Everyone's bodyis different. So the things
we're talking about may or maynot apply directly to you, but
we hope that they'll give yousome more information to think
about and some ideas toresearch and to experiment
with. Further finding your wayto better health is both your
right and your own personalresponsibility. This doesn't

(01:43):
mean that you're alone on thejourney, and it doesn't mean
that you're to blame for yourcurrent state of health, but it
does mean that the finaldecision, when you're
considering any course ofaction, whether it's discussed
on the internet or prescribedby a physician, that's always
your choice to make. Alright ,so , um, continuing our series,
talking about top selling herbsin commerce , uh, in the United

(02:05):
States. This is coming out ofdata from a market report , um,
put out by , uh, the AmericanBotanical Council. Every year
we're looking at the data from2023, 'cause that's the most
recent stuff that we've got towork with here. Um, and , uh,
in previous episodes in thisseries, we've seen , uh, we've
talked about p cilium,elderberry, turmeric,

(02:26):
ashwagandha, apple cidervinegar, cranberry, wheatgrass,
beet root , and ginger. Uh, sothose are all doing really good
out there in the world. Peopleare buying those, liking them.
And today, like I said, yeah,we're talking about tea, green
tea, fig Greek , and ivy leaf.
So let's get right into it. Um,when we say green tea, we're

(02:49):
talking about the plant , uh,botanical name ka sinis .
Previously it was known as Tayaor teia , right? And that's
where that's connected to thatword tea . Um, the , but
nowadays, KAM is what we callthat. And that plant is what
produces green tea, but alsoblack tea, white tea, oolong

(03:09):
tea, silver tea. And all ofthose differences are just
about the way you process theherb after it's been harvested.
Um, if the plant is harvestedand then just dried, then we
get the green tea. There's aprocess called withering that
gives you white tea if you justdo that , um, if it gets what

(03:29):
they call fermented, but it'sreally an oxidative process.
Um, that's how we get fromgreen tea to oolong tea and
then to black tea, you know, asyou let that process progress.
But anyway, again, these areall , um, about post harvest
processing of the plantmaterial. It all originates
from the same , uh, same plant,same herb. Um, and so all of

(03:50):
those different versions oftea, the tea plant, the tea
drink, they have similarchemistry, but there are some
differences as they transform.
Um, I'm gonna talk here todayabout catechins . As one of the
key groups of beneficialconstituents found in this
plant. Um, those catechins canbe transformed or altered , uh,

(04:15):
when that withering process isdone, or when that quote
unquote fermentation process,the oxidative process is done.
Um, and it can put, it can, itcan result in some related
chemistry, maybe not quite aspotent when it comes to potency
for anti-inflammatory andantioxidant effects, which are

(04:35):
at the root of a lot of thebenefits of green tea , uh, or
the tea plant in general. Um,the, the maximum way to
get the most benefit , uh, fromthose is to have it as green
tea rather than oolong or blacktea or others. Um, now for
flavor reasons, you mightprefer one of those others, and
that's fine. You're stillgetting a ton of benefit. You

(04:58):
don't have to be like, ah ,well, I have to drink green tea
if I wanna be healthy. You canhave your black tea, that's
totally fine. Um, but I'mtrying to explain why when it
comes to supplements and whenit comes to supplements that
are targeting some of thesekey, you know, well-studied ,
uh, understood constituentsthat they're doing it with,
quote unquote green tea. Okay?

(05:19):
So when we look at these thingson the shelf in a supermarket
or on a, on a website likeAmazon or Vitacost or one of
these things, and we say, allright , well, what are they,
what are these being marketedfor? Like, the people who sell
you a green tea capsule, whatare they telling you it's good
for? What are they, what arethey suggesting that you're
gonna do with it? Um, andagain, we're taking that
perspective. You know, I'massuming if you're listening or
watching this, you're, you'rean herbalist or you're

(05:41):
interested in herbs, maybeyou've got some, some
knowledge, some trainingalready. Um, but a lot of
people, their only exposure tothese things is through such
advertising. Um, and so it's a, a good exercise for us
practitioners and herb peopleto look at things from our
perspective and try to adoptthe , uh, the perspective of
somebody who doesn't knowanything about plants at all.

(06:01):
They see this product on theshelf, what are they gonna see?
What's gonna catch their eye?
What's gonna draw them to that?
And a lot of times it's the,the claims or the, the things
that the, the person is saying,this is for, or this is gonna
support, or this is gonna help,right? As they, as they market
it. So with, with green teasupplements, they're advertised
primarily as quote unquoteenergy support , right?

(06:25):
Um, which really just means it, it's a way to say, this is
gonna stimulate you. This isgonna give you energy, it's
gonna make you, you know, feel, uh, powerful , right?
Um, there's also veryfrequently either an explicit ,
uh, or an implied claim thatyou're gonna take this green
tea product and it's gonna helpyou lose weight. This is gonna

(06:45):
be in the category of a weightloss aid supplement. Um, so I
won't spend a lot of time onthat discussion today, but I
just wanna make a little note ,uh, as we do whatever this
topic comes up, that weightloss , uh, and herbs are very
frequently misstated. They'revery frequently overstated.

(07:07):
There are a lot of falsepromises that are being made
out there by people who makeand sell and promote , uh,
herbal supplements and otherkinds of supplements as well,
amino acids, and, you know, allkinds of things. Um, when it
comes to , uh, weight and , uh,body fat percentages and things
like that, your body willresist a lot of your efforts to

(07:28):
change them. Um, in many cases,or to a large extent, these
things are established in thecourse of puberty, and your
body establishes a sort of aset point for you. And it says,
this is the amount of fat massI wanna maintain on my body,
and I'm gonna, I'm gonna fightto, to maintain that and
sustain that over long periodsof time. You can make changes

(07:51):
in these things, but you can'tdo it fast, not if you want it
to last, not if you want it tobe sustainable. And any product
that promises you fast weightloss , um, is something you
should look at with a lot ofskepticism and a lot of
caution. If you choose to workwith such a thing, you should
be very, very careful. Um, ingeneral, I advise against it.

(08:11):
If we're interested in losingweight, actually often my first
discussion is gonna be, what isthe underlying goal behind
that? Are you actuallyconcerned about health? Are you
concerned about appearance? Wecan work with that, right? I
don't wanna dismiss thateither, but just to be clear
that we need to understand whythis is something you're
focusing on. In a lot of cases,it's because people have been
told, this is the only way,this is the most important

(08:32):
thing to do for them to gethealthier. Oh, your knees hurt.
Well, it's probably justbecause you're overweight. And
, uh, if you would just shedsome pounds, then you would
feel fine. This is somethingthat's said to a lot of people
who have , uh, serious, youknow, connective tissue problem
or have a chronic inflammatoryissue that may not actually be
related to their weight at all.
And they may be dismissed. Theymay not receive the best

(08:54):
possible care , um, becausethere's this bias, this fat
phobia in our society, andespecially in our medical
culture. Um, so to the extentthat this touches on the herbal
world, which is pretty vast,there are a lot of supplement
products, let's say. I don'tregard all of them as fully
herbal in nature, because theymight be working with, you

(09:14):
know, isolated constituents orjust very high powered extracts
or other things that drift themfurther and further away from,
you know, the plants in yourgarden or the plants , uh, in
your jars on the shelf orthings like that. Um, but , uh,
but anyway, be , be cautiousabout weight loss aids. Be
skeptical about promises of fat, uh, loss being something

(09:36):
rapid , uh, being somethingthat can be both fast and
sustained over time, because ingeneral, that doesn't turn out
to be true. Um, if people wannawork with green tea for other
other reasons, then that's,that's totally fine. Um, but I
would just give a lot of , um,a lot of salt to claims
about, yeah, swallow thesecapsules. Don't change anything

(09:58):
else about your diet habits,your movement habits, your
sleep, the stresses youundergo, and how you cope with
them, and it'll just magicallygo away. That is extremely
unrealistic. And , um, notsomething that I want anybody
to go around expecting becausethey're gonna be disappointed.
Okay? But listen, there's a lotmore to green tea and to

(10:19):
supplements made from it thanthe caffeine, right? The idea
of energy support and the ideaof weight loss aid are focused
on caffeine. If we stimulateyour metabolism, it will raise
your basal basal metabolicrates, and then you'll be
burning calories without eventhinking about it. That's the
idea behind that, okay? Itdoesn't really turn out that
way in a free living human, butthat's the idea. Energy support

(10:42):
here is really just in thesense of, well, if we stimulate
you, you'll feel like you'vegot more energy. This is not
energy support in the sense ofimproving mitochondrial
efficiency, right? ,this is not energy support in
the sense of making sure yourbody has all the nutrients
available to you, that you canpower your metabolism flexibly
and fluidly as you go throughdifferent changes in the course

(11:03):
of your day. No, this is aboutcaffeine, , right ? Um,
and caffeine is a powerfulchemical. It's a , it's got
strong activity, and it's notsomething that we can ignore.
Caffeine is gonna have a dryinginfluence. When we look at this
herb from a, from a , uh,energetic perspective, we see
an herb that is heating, yes.
Stimulating, activating, moving, uh, metabolically enhancing.

(11:24):
Yeah. Uh , okay, sure. Soheating , uh, drying, because
caffeine is a strong diuretic,and it's gonna eliminate fluids
from your system, okay? Um, andtonifying tightening tensioning
, uh, is the third quality thatwe have there. Um, and so we
should never, you know, ignorethe energetic aspects of our

(11:45):
plants because there are directobservations of the influence
of that herb on our physiology.
Um , and I think people runinto a problem where they, they
know a particular plant fromcultural context, from just
being familiar with it as afood item or, or some other
substance that people work withoften, and they drift away from

(12:06):
even thinking about energeticswith that, even, even when
they're trained in it, right?
So we see this happen with tea,we see it happen with coffee,
we see it happen with cannabisand tobacco , um, and, and pram
, , you know, and , uh,a lot of times it's because
people are enchanted by thefamous chemical, the, the
powerful alkaloid or , or someother agent there. Um, so when

(12:28):
we think about, about tea andabout caffeine, I don't wanna
ignore it, but I wanna pointout that other chemistry in
this plant has also been verywell, you know , uh, studied
and characterized and iscontributing a lot to the
benefits that we observe. So wecan talk today about catechins
, about taine , and abouttheophylline . These are just

(12:48):
three , um, uh,constituents or , or
constituent groups found in atea plant that are really
active and are contributing alot to the benefits that it
exerts in our bodies. Um, whenwe think, when we think about
green tea , uh, it's a healthfood. It's a , it's a famous
health food. It's up there withlike brown rice and , uh, and ,

(13:12):
uh, uh, and , and seaweed and ,and things like this as a, as a
health food. And, you know,people have had that, that idea
about it, that reputation sinceat least the seventies and the
us like very widespread, verywell understood, right? Um, so
green teas kind of famous inthat regard, and it is indeed
an excellent anti-inflammatory.
A lot of the activity in thatdirection is attributed to the

(13:34):
catechin contents. Um,catechins are an interesting
group of constituents , uh, fora number of different reasons.
One of the ones that I like totalk about is that when you
start with that chemical in theplant, so the plant is doing
its metabolism, it'stransforming and, and , uh,
complicating different , uh,molecules inside of its body

(13:55):
inside of itself, and creatingthese metabolites, these, these
constituents, these things thatare part of, its , uh, its
chemical nature and itscontribution to its medic
medicinal activity. Um, withcatechins , the plant goes
through a series oftransformations where it makes
catechin and then it continuesto complexify or to build onto

(14:15):
that molecule as, as time goesforward, right? And what is,
what is convenient for us aboutthis is that the longer the
molecule becomes, like, themore pieces attached to it, the
longer its name gets, like atthe same time. So we start with
Catechin , we attach a piece,and we have epi catechin , we
attach another piece, and wehave Epi Gallo catechin , and

(14:36):
we attach another one. And wehave Epi Gallo , catechin
gallate , and I'm gonna stopthere. Like the chain does keep
on going for a while , but thatone, EGCG is the way people
usually refer to that. Um, thatis , uh, like the most potent
catechin as far as weunderstand them so far in terms

(14:57):
of anti-inflammatory activity,antioxidant activity. And
that's really, reallybeneficial in, in human health,
especially in the modern erawhere we're coping with an
epidemic of an of chronicinflammatory disorders where we
have multiple inputs throughfood habits, stress exposures,
sleep or lack thereof, habitsthat are pretty widespread,

(15:19):
sedentary lifestyles. All thesethings create, generate or
sustain inflammation in thebody. Um, and so we've gotta
work on anti-inflammatoryagents. Green tea is rich in
them. EGCG is a really powerfulone. You will even see the
occasional supplement wherethey have standardized for the
level of catechins as a group,or EGCG in particular. Um, and

(15:43):
this is, this is the rationalefor why that's done, right? So
if you see a , a green teaproduct and you, you read the
label and you notice that it'stalking about guaranteed to
contain, you know, X percentcatechins or x percent EGCG,
this is the reason why they'rebothering to put that on the
label. It's for the people whoknow that these are the
anti-inflammatory,anti-inflammatory components,
and they are excited ,that they're being guaranteed a

(16:06):
particular amount of that. Um,it's hard to make a green tea
extract that doesn't have areally rich presentation of
these things. So I wouldn'tstress too much , um, about
efforts to enhancebioavailability or to power
that up , um, even further,because the level you get from
drinking some cups of green teais great. The level you get

(16:28):
from a standard dose of anormal capsule of these things
is really solid. Um, and so youdon't need to be going to the,
to the nth degree to try to getthese into your body, the
catechins and , and EGCG,right? They're all, like I
said, antioxidant,anti-inflammatory as a result.
And because of those two, wecan branch out into a whole
bunch of other , uh, uh, actionterms for these things. We can

(16:51):
say they're anticarcinogenic,that they're cardioprotective,
that they're anti-diabetic,right? And again, in most
cases, the , the root of those,those endpoint , um, action
terms for what the plant hasaccomplished in the body is due
to reducing inflammation or ,um, uh, improving the

(17:12):
efficiency of the inflammatoryprocess so that it can work
where it's needed, but it canrun its course and then be gone
, um, rather than just stickingaround forever, right? And that
can indeed protect your heartand help to maintain blood
sugar control and reduce thepropensity for nascent tumors
to develop into a full-blowncancer. Um, so yeah, all of

(17:33):
that is all that is real. Um,now I was talking about the
catechins and how they, theydevelop into longer and longer
molecules as the, as the timegoes forward, as the plant's
metabolism continues, right?
Um, the interesting thing isthat it's sort of something
kind of in the reverse happenswhen you steep it, right? So
what happens when you steep itis that the smallest molecules

(17:54):
come out first. So thatincludes caffeine, actually.
Um, it's just highly watersoluble is what's really going
on with that. But with thecatechins, you get like the
smallest catechins come outfirst, and then the slightly
longer, more complex ones, andthen the, the third level, and
then the EGCG level and so on,right? So what this all means
is that the longer you steepyour tea, the more of these

(18:16):
things you get out into thewater, the part that you're
gonna drink, okay?
Unfortunately, what you alsoget at the same time , um, or
as you allow it to run on, youget more and more of condensed
tannins from this as well. Andthe tannins are astringent, and
they can also have a , a bitterflavor to them at the same

(18:38):
time. So what happens is thatthe longer you steep your tea,
the more bitter it becomes, themore astringent it becomes. And
so, in a sense, there's a kindof a, there's kind of a
goldilock zone here where youwould wanna maximize your
extraction of the catechins andEGCG in particular, but you
might not wanna let it run onindefinitely, because now it's

(18:59):
gonna become less, lesspleasant to drink. And maybe
even for some people verysensitive to ification, that
that a stringent effect, youmight be risking gut cramps or
other kinds of discomfort , um,if you're, you know, prone to
that kind of reaction. This isalso the reason why, like a , a
tea enthusiast , uh, somebody,you know, who's, who's got a

(19:21):
tea shop, a tea bar, you know,or does the tea ceremony as ,
as part of their practice orwhatever. Um, there's often a
very specific and briefsteeping time recommended for
when you're gonna prepare greentea or black tea or, or other,
you know, preparations fromthis plant. Um, this is a
question of flavor rather thanmedicinal potency, right? So

(19:42):
usually when it's like, yeah ,steepness for 60 seconds, 90
seconds , uh, 45 seconds,whatever the idea there is, we
wanna , we're , we're going to,you are guaranteed a good
caffeine extraction that that'sguaranteed, right? And then we
want to get, you know, like theflavor and the aromatic
elements, but we don't wannalet it become bitter. We don't
wanna get it astringent likethat, right? And so that's why

(20:05):
those shorter, steep timeshappen for me when I make , uh,
green tea or black tea orothers, I usually steep it more
like five minutes, you know?
Um, for me that's a pretty goodgoldilock zone where I feel
confident that I've gotten aton of the, you know,
anti-inflammatory componentsout of there , um, and into my
drink, but it's not, it's notso ast stringent that I'm, I'm

(20:26):
getting some cramping, and I amactually one of the people I
mentioned who's kind of proneto that , uh, kind of thing.
I've, I've prepared tea in wayswhere it was giving me that
kind of issue. Um, but ingeneral , uh, from a greener
black tea that I work with,five minutes is great. It is a
little more astringent. It is alittle bitter, but, you know,
I'm an herbalist. I'm used tothat. Um, I even enjoy it. So ,

(20:49):
uh, so that's how I do it, youknow, for whatever that's worth
to you. Uh, I do wanna make oneother note though, that the
long steeping, like that it'spossible , um, there's some
kind of back and forth onwhether this really happens.
Um, but it's plausible. And Iexperientially I think it , I
think it is real that when yousteep it really long like that

(21:09):
, um, the caffeine itself canbind up with some of these
polyphenols. Um, and it canslow down the, the uptake , uh,
by your body of the caffeine.
This is , I think, is one ofthe things that can contribute
to a smoother stimulant effectof tea in comparison to coffee.

(21:34):
Um, just not hitting you withall the caffeine all at once,
real hot. Uh, and with coffee,there's also this, this issue
of the , um, the impact of someother bitter components in
coffee stimulating liveraction, but also slowing down
liver metabolism of caffeine.
And so it's like when you workwith coffee because of what
else is in that drink, thecaffeine hits you faster and

(21:57):
stays with you , uh, a littlebit longer with green tea, it
moves into your system moreslowly, but at a nice measured
pace. So you do get somestimulation, but you're not
like, as prone to being shaky,you know? And there's another
component in tea thatcontributes to that, that, that
, uh, that prevention or of ,of like the jitteriness or the,

(22:18):
the like, ah , you know,agitated feeling , um, when you
get your caffeine from tea ,um, and that is theanine . And
this is sometimes written asl-theanine , right? Or theanine
, you know, say it however youwant, right? Um, this is a
compound that's found in, inthese plants and kam plants ,

(22:38):
um, and , uh, it's actuallysedative, or at the very least,
anxiolytic. Now remember when Isay sedative, I don't mean
makes you sleep. I mean, calmsdown agitation or over
excitation, usually if thenerves could be of another
tissue as well, right? Um, inthis case, we are talking about
the nerves. Tine is calming tothe nerves. It quiets down

(23:03):
their, their firing rate. Youknow, how many zaps per second
that they're sending up, right?
Um, and so tine can help you tofeel calmer, more centered,
more focused on what you'redoing. Um, and in tea, it
mitigates some of the stimulanteffect of the caffeine. It
helps you to both be alert,awake, energetic, but also not

(23:24):
distracted, not not thrown offjust present, right? And I am,
I am talking about, you know,mild to moderate doses of tea
, right ? When youdrink a ton of it, yeah, the
caffeine is gonna dominate andyou might start to get jittery,
right? That's, that's real.
People have varying degrees ofsensitivity. So some people
might get jittery at a dosethat someone else just feels
calm and focused. That's real,okay? Um, but again, if you

(23:47):
were to compare giving yourselfthe same dose of caffeine as
tea versus as coffee , um, ingeneral, the dose of of that
through tea is gonna help youto feel centered, focused,
present, and alert, right? Sothis is why I am always saying
that if I'm gonna go and dosome physical activity,
exercise, labor, whatever, thenI'm gonna have coffee. If I'm

(24:10):
gonna do thought work, if I'mgonna write, if I'm gonna read,
if I'm gonna study, then it'stime for green tea. You know,
that's the way I kind of dividethat personally. Tanning and el
l tanning again, is the wayyou're gonna see that rin , you
can find that as a supplementitself that isn't isolate,
right? That is a , uh, uh, asingle constituent extract of

(24:31):
the plant . And , um, those canhave problems. Sometimes this
particular one is very safe andit doesn't really have adverse
effects or side effects foryou. Um, if you take , uh,
isolated tanin , um, so this isan example of an herbal
isolate, which can be quitebeneficial , um, and many

(24:55):
people find it very helpful.
Um, so feel free to work withthat. But at the same time, and
just for like general educationpurposes here, there are some
herbal isolates that are lesshelpful or less safe than the
herbs that they're derivedfrom. Um, we're herbalist here,
and in a lot of cases ourperspective is, you know what,
don't go with that singlecompound removed from

(25:18):
everything else in the herb. Gowith the actual herb. There's a
lot of reasons, a lot of caseswhere that's gonna be the
better choice. This particularone, if you try a tanning
capsule and it helps you tofeel calm and centered, that's
great. Go ahead and take that.
Um, oh yeah, one other note ontanning. This does also seem to
have some beneficial effects onwhat we call immune

(25:39):
surveillance, like the capacityof your immune system to
recognize when there's anascent infection and to take
care of it before it reallydevelops. So that's a , another
nice benefit in terms of immunefunction. Let we get there.
Okay. Um, another compoundfound in green tea is called
oph filine . And oph filine is,it's, it's structurally related

(25:59):
to caffeine. It's, it's similar, um, but it doesn't act in
exactly the same way. Instead,it serves as a, as a relaxant
to smooth muscle. Um, so ratherthan having like a tonifying
effect, this particularcompound has a relaxing one
specific to smooth muscle. Sothat's muscle that could be
found like around the bloodvessels. Um, and this is one of

(26:23):
the ways where even though theherb does contain caffeine at ,
at moderate doses, and overtime, it can help to bring down
some blood pressure, right? Butone of the more , um, immediate
places you would feel theeffect of theophylline would be
in the lungs, because it canoperate on the smooth muscle in
the lungs themselves, and inthe bronchi, the little tubes
inside the lungs and help themto relax and to dilate to open

(26:47):
up. And that makes it easierfor you to breathe and to, you
know, get your oxygen. So , uh,so that's found in green tea as
well. And , um, there are theserespiratory benefits of working
with that plant. Um, one otherthing about tea , and this is
one that you would definitelynot encounter in any of the
supplement products or any oftheir kind of advertising and

(27:09):
that kind of stuff, is that teais actually surprisingly
effective as a topicalantiseptic. Um, now if you had
a wound and you were away fromyour home herbal apothecary,
and you had to care for awound, you could do worse than
to get some green tea bags orsome black tea bags , soak 'em
in hot water for a couple ofminutes, and then take the
whole teabag, you know, allsoaked and wet and put that

(27:31):
right on the wound. The teabagis gonna prevent the herbal
powder from getting into thewound itself. Um, but it's a ,
a great, you know, on the spotpulis, and it will combat
infection, it will stimulatehealing, it will enhance the
efficiency of the localinflammatory process. Um, so
it's, it's quite handy for thatkind of thing. Uh, this is

(27:53):
particularly good for soaks andbaths and compresses where
there's a , a , a rash or someother kind of fungal skin
infection. Um, so athlete'sfoot, you could , uh, prepare a
strong foot bath of, of greenor black tea and soak your feet
in there. Be , be warned you,you will get some transdermal

(28:13):
uptake of caffeine. Um, so thisis more of a morning thing to
do than right before bed . Okay? Alright . Um,
internally , uh, the mostrelevant aspects here , uh,
about antimicrobial effects oftea are gonna be in the mouth,
in the stomach. So if you havea dental infection, if you have
a gum infection, if you have anabscess , uh, and you make some

(28:35):
this time, make it reallystrong, steep it, steep it too
long to be pleasant to drink,right? Uh, bitter very
astringent, okay? But then takethat swish with it and spit it
out, right? Uh , or swish itand hold it in the mouth for,
you know, a minute at a time,and then go ahead and spit it
out and do that repeatedlythrough the course of your day.

(28:55):
And that will help to combatthe, the dental or the gum
infection for you. Uh, veryeffectively when you, when you
drink green tea , um, it couldpotentially help with some
stomach infections, probablynot lower in the GI tract, like
all the way down in yourbowels, okay? But in your
stomach, yeah. And there's somedecent evidence about green tea
as a, as a drink being helpfulfor the infection called h

(29:18):
pylori. Um, this is somethingthat can contribute to ulcers.
It's , uh, often , uh, gonna ,going to overgrow in the
stomach as a result of loweredstomach acid levels. Um, it's
not , uh, something that willjust like appear out of nowhere
in an otherwise healthy system.
Okay? Um, and many, many peoplehave h pylori as a commensal.

(29:39):
It's one of their organismsthat lives, lives in their
body, but it's not causing aproblem, right ? Um, so I think
part of the reason why greentea can be effective against h
pylori is that it willstimulate stomach acid
production, okay? Um, anytimewe work with a caffeine bearing
plant, when it touches thestomach , uh, it does stimulate
stomach acid production there,even as it's being absorbed and

(30:00):
acting on nervous , uh, tissueand your, your brain and your
mind and all of that, it isacting on all these local
tissues as well. Um, so I thinkpart of the benefit of a , of
of green tea for an infectionlike h pylori is both direct
antimicrobial effect of theherb and its chemistry, and
then also that influence of in, of increasing stomach acid

(30:21):
production there, which is likeyour own innate defense against
microbial invasion. So two forone, one more note on t . Um,
you know , uh, the framing forthis, you know, episode in the
series is about, you know,products you would go and find
on the store. And for, forgreen tea extracts and
products, they're gonna becapsules. Like, almost all of
them are that way. There mightbe some green tea extract

(30:43):
gummies available now or soon.
Um, and of course you can buythe tea and you can just drink
that and, and, you know, that'sfantastic and I love it. Um,
but I just wanted to make aside note for herbalists that
you can tincture camelia andyou can tincture the tea plant.
Um, and it can be a helpfulthing to have on time , uh, on
hand for times when you need tobe wakeful. You have to, I

(31:07):
don't know, you have to drivethrough the night, you have to
stay up late and, you know, bethe guard for the camp
you , um, whatever it is thatyou're, you're doing. I'm not
talking about every day , I'mtalking about like an acute
situation. I do need astimulant. Um, probably, you
know, it's a case where youneed it as as soon as possible,
not too much fuss. Um, and sowe often keep a , a tincture or

(31:29):
a formula that includes somecaffeine plants in there on
hand for a circumstance likethat. Um, it is also possible
to go ahead and make a tinctureof your green tea, and then
take it in very measured dosesto take three drops, five
drops, seven drops, and seewhere your personal limit is to

(31:49):
be like, I want just enough ofa stimulation to keep me
focused, not so much that I getjittery. Maybe you're somebody
who knows if you do drink awhole , you know, eight , 12
ounce mug of green tea, thatwould actually be too much
caffeine for your body, and youwould get jittery, right? If
you make a tincture, you can goa drop at a time and give an

(32:09):
hour or two or a day betweeneach, each dose level you try
and see how it affects you,right? So that could be a way
that you could like find yourgoldilock zone , uh, for that.
Okay? All right . All right, solet's move on here and talk
about , uh, number 11 on thetop seller's list. That's Fnu
Greek , trigon pH . Very fancyLatin name on this one. So ,

(32:35):
um, with Feno Greek , the , um,the traditions around this herb
are largely focused ondigestive benefit. Uh, fig
Greek has both a bitter elementin its flavor and a sweet
element. Um, and so this is anherb that can stimulate
digestive movement andactivity, resolve stagnations

(32:56):
that are present in thedigestive , um, tracts, but it
can also be supportive or , andbuilding in traditional
context. The sweet flavor isassociated with , uh, with
building the , the mass of thebody building , uh, resilience
and stamina even, right?
Remember, this was in contextwhen sweet wasn't as easy to

(33:16):
come across as , as it is now,right? And we didn't have
isolated sugar and candyeverywhere and all of that. So
, um, so traditional views onsweet flavored foods , um,
which would've included riceand other grains , um, in
those, in those times. Um, andthen also herbs like fenig
Greek or licorice or fennel.
Um, the suite is seen as , uh,restorative or building to kind

(33:39):
of baseline energy and, and,you know, mass in the body. Um,
and we're gonna see the waythat some of those attributes
manifest in Fenner Greek , um,both in traditional
perspectives and incontemporary ideas. So the
thing is though, modernproducts, modern capsules and,
and supplements of reek ,they're almost all focused on

(34:02):
and , and marketed for, orlabeled to support endocrine
health, hormonal health,hormonal balance. Those are the
kind of , um, ideas that arefloating around regarding this
plant in commercial contexts.
Uh, so this would include bothphytoestrogenic activity of
this plant , um, which in thiscase is real and significant

(34:23):
enough to to matter, talk aboutthat in a second, but also and
effect of this herb to improveblood sugar regulation. And
especially in the past decade, , um, that has become
more and more what you seefenugreek marketed for, or ,
um, or , or the, thepresentation that is being

(34:44):
given is about blood sugarcontrol tracks directly with
the increasing rate of bloodsugar control problems that
people are experiencing.
Alright ? So, but again, intraditional practice, including
culinary tradition, you knowwhat people eat , uh, fig Greek
is taken as a spice herb. Um,and you can, you can take

(35:05):
significant doses of thisthrough food. This is one kind
of like turmeric, where it'snot impossible to imagine a
single serving of this that hasa whole tablespoon of the
powdered dur stirred into it.
Um, it would be strong, but it, it , you know, it's not
unusual for, for these kinds ofrecipes. Um, Fenig Greek has
this flavor that's almostexactly like maple syrup. Like

(35:27):
the sweet element of its flavoris, is a maple syrup sweetness,
not a white sugar. Sweetness,not an, not an apple sweetness,
not a , not a honey sweetness.
It's maple. Maple is what it,what it tastes like. Um, so it
has that, and again, it hasthat hint of bitter. Um, you
kind of have to taste past thesweet or beyond it to, to taste
the bitter, but it is present.

(35:48):
Um, and so like I said, that'sgonna get you some digestive
stimulation. It's gonna get yousome liver activation that's
probably relevant to some ofthe action of reek on hormones
in the body. Uh, the, the goalof improving hormone
coordination and hormonebalance, if you wanna use that

(36:08):
word, is achieved in many ways,not only through forcing your
body to make more hormones orintroducing something from a
plant that functions similarenough to one of your own
hormones that we call it aphytoestrogen or a phyto
androgen or whatever, right?
Those aren't the only ways thatwe can improve hormonal , uh,
coordination or hormonalhealth. Another major way is by

(36:32):
enhancing elimination, right?
And so that's generally throughliver and kidney function. If
we can enhance the eliminationof waste products, or you can
say hormones that have donetheir job and now they're
getting flushed out, then thatcan also make a really big
improvement in terms ofhormonal health. And so I think
that's a , at least a piece ofwhat Feneg Greek is bringing ,
uh, in that regard. Fenig Greekis also a moistening herb and

(36:57):
amongst our demulcent plants,this one is both sweet and also
mucilaginous. So there's thiskind of broad category
demulcent herbs that , uh,function in regards to moisture
in the body. They enhance themoisture of your tissue, they
enhance the , um, the uptakeand the utilization and the
distribution of fluidsthroughout your system. But

(37:19):
there are multiple types ofdemulcent. We've got bitter
demulcent and sweet demulcentand slimy demulcent and uh,
even some astringent demulcentnow and then, right? We've got
a whole range of them. So FigGreek is, is a slimy demulcent
or a mucilaginous one. Um, andthat means that if we infuse it
in water, we can see it getthicker, have greater
viscosity, has a velvety or aeven a slimy ish feeling when

(37:43):
we taste it or feel it or drinkit down. And that that's really
gonna bring fluid into the bodyand help your body hold onto it
and , and utilize it. Well, butthen again, because of that
sweet flavor, this is also asweet demulcent. And in that
regard, it's similar tolicorice and to fennel , right?
Um , and sweet demulcent havethis kind of like coating
effect on your mouth and youresophagus, and even through

(38:06):
your stomach a little bit,where they're very soothing to
those tissues. They're calmingdown irritation, especially
like these kind of dryirritations. Um, and , uh, you
know, just makes this a really,really helpful when we want to
improve hydration status, fluidretention and fluid movement in
the system. Um, if you take FenGreek as a powder and you take

(38:30):
a significant amount, amount ofthat in like a , a spoonful
amount of that into water orstir into a meal or something,
something that you eat , um,then that can actually function
as a gentle laxative. Thiswould be what we call a bulk
laxative rather than astimulant laxative like setta ,
okay? So a bulk laxative isalso includes stuff like
cilium, right? Number one onthe list. You can see these are
always popular with humans. Um,and uh, this same would go

(38:53):
along for something like ifyou, if you take marshmallow
powder, slippery elm powder andyou're stirring that and , and
taking that indirectly, right?
We get that, that bulkingeffect, right? Actually Fenig
Greek is best if you take it incombination with something like
cilium or flax or chia or oneof those guys. Um, and it could
just be the two powders stirredtogether and then you have that

(39:15):
in your jar. Take a littlespoon, make that in a little
glass of water, drink that downin the morning, and then drink
a lot more water after it tofollow. Yes, that would be
good. Um, so I find Feneg Greekhere to be a really, really
helpful herb to combine withdrying plants. Um, particularly
in somebody who has a dryconstitution already. Like
maybe somebody really wants towork with turmeric. They've

(39:37):
heard all the hype, they'relike, this is gonna be great.
I'm gonna bring down myinflammation. My joints are
gonna feel better, my brain'sgonna function great, this is
gonna be good. But they'rereally dried out, right? And so
what if they take two partsturmeric and one part fagre ,
and that's what they're gonnadose themselves with instead of
straight up turmeric. That canbe enough to mitigate the
drying effect of a plant likethat, right ? So that's a

(39:59):
really handy case to thinkabout working with Fagre , so
about those hormonal actions,alright ? When you take this
plant insignificant doses, andin some cases for this to take
effect, we're talking aboutdoses of half an ounce, like 15
grams, 30 grams, you know, afull ounce of that per day ,

(40:21):
um, or more, okay? Or more inorder to get observable
significant effects on hormonalactivity in the body. Um, one
of the places that's mosttraditional in that regard is
around , uh, milk production,right? So this is the galactic
gog effect of our plants. Um,Fenig Greek in this regard is

(40:44):
very similar to fennel, and infact, they're often combined
together for that specificpurpose. One thing I wanna
point out about both theseplants is that although they do
both have some degree ofphytoestrogenic activity, and
like I said, insignificantlarge doses consistently every
day for some period of time,that can start to be , become
real and a big contributor towhat we're seeing here, right?
But before that , we'regonna get the more immediate

(41:08):
impact of the demulcent effect, right? The sweet demulcent,
the collagenous demulcent, theabsorption, the utilization,
the movement of water in thebody. And when we're talking
about milk production, thatmatters a lot. I think that
matters at least as much asthese hormonal effects of the
herb that are gonna come with abig dose and with sustained
intake. Um, it is similarlynecessary to get a pretty

(41:33):
significant dose of this plantin order to have an observable
impact on your blood sugarlevels. So when I say a
significant dose, that couldmean that we're talking about
making, making tea, right? Butmaking a lot of it, or drinking
a lot of it, making it strong.
Um, if you have an ounce of ,uh, fenig Greek seed every

(41:56):
single day and you prepare thatinto, you know, a couple quarts
of tea that you drink over thecourse of that day, that's kind
of the level where we'restarting to see significant
changes in, you know, yourblood sugar , uh, test , right?
Your little test strip , um,your little , uh, you know,
little jab into the finger kindof a thing. Um, so that can be

(42:17):
achieved that way. It can alsobe achieved in supplement
products these days becausethey can concentrate a lot of
the chemistry in the plant andthey can refine it down into a,
a fairly small, you know,capsule for you to swallow. But
that could give you asignificant dose. Um, it's
possible for a , a capsule offagre to be the equivalent of ,
um, you know, several gramsworth of, of plant material. So

(42:42):
if you're taking those everyday, you're taking them
consistently , you know, wecould get there. Uh, the thing
is, these effects traveltogether. And so in some cases
that means that Fen Greek mightnot be the best choice for, for
one or another of theseactions. Um, so as an example,
maybe somebody had a breastcyst, but it's kind of been
dormant, you know, it wasdetected some years back, maybe

(43:04):
it used to be more irritating,but it's kind of faded , uh,
away. And then they were gonnatake an herb to try to bring
down their blood sugar levels,right? And they took Fen Greek
and they took it in bigamounts. They were doing like
the herb of the month, kind ofa challenge thing, right?
Quarter of strong tea everysingle day or more, you know,
for at least that long periodof time. Um, we've had students

(43:25):
who were doing that and hadthat, that background with the
dormant breast cyst. And um,they did find the level of Fen
Greek that brought down theirblood sugar pretty
significantly, you know, onthose, on those tests. But that
they also kind of awoke thecyst and got it inflamed, got
some more fluid stagnating init and around it. And so it was

(43:46):
swollen and so it was painfulagain. Alright ? So we've seen
that or something like thathappen to a few people who have
been working with Fagre atthose elevated doses, right?
Um, so just keep that in mindthat if you're taking a dose of
fagre strong enough to bringdown your blood sugar, you are
probably also inducing a prettysignificant phytoestrogenic

(44:08):
activity in your body. And thatmight be something you're
hoping for. It might besomething that you really don't
want , um, or anywhere inbetween. Okay? So , um, try to
consider and understand yourcontext there. If you're gonna
work with that herb now forculinary amounts , um, for
spicing your food enough totaste a little maple, maple
syrup , uh, sweetness in there,that's generally not gonna

(44:29):
reach you to those levels. Andwhen we talk about taking Fen
Greek as a component of aformula, right? Like I have
four herbs and then Fen Greekin my tea blend, generally the
amount you're gonna be exposedto that way is not enough to
have a real significant effecton your , uh, on your sex

(44:50):
hormones, right? Your, yourestrogen levels or that kind of
thing. And it may not haveenough , uh, potency either to
really significantly bring downyour blood sugar. Now, if
you're also doing several otherthings that are contributing to
improvements in your bloodsugar regulation, you might get
where you're trying to go,right? Um, what I'm saying is

(45:11):
that if you're not relying onFenig Greek as the only
intervention, the only agent tohelp your blood sugar
normalize, then it can be aneffective part of a team
, alright ? Right ? Um,even at levels where just all
by itself with no other changeto habit , it wouldn't really
move that needle. All right ?
Good. Okay. So next up, lastdisturb for this episode today

(45:35):
is ivy leaf. So this one inLatin is Heera Helix. Helix
like a, like a DNA , right?
Like the twining twiningladder. The curving ladder. Um,
'cause it grows like that, itgrows in spirals. So Ivy Leaf
is an interesting one , uh,from the perspective of this,
this market report, this dataabout top selling plants, okay?
Um, because , uh, according tothe chart sales of Ivy Leaf

(45:58):
products declined by 28, almost30% from the prior year. Uh,
it's possible and I think it'slikely that some of this change
is actually due to arecalibration of the inclusion
criteria. And by that I meanwhich products they included in
their assessments , which , um,outlets or stores that they

(46:20):
included in their datagathering to determine, you
know, which products were beingsold at what level? Um, I think
that this is related tosomething that happened a few
years ago where there was thisher called Horehound, that's ma
rubian vulgar . Um, horehoundused to be right up at the top
of the bestseller charts,right? There were several years
where it was number one andthen it disappeared, ,

(46:42):
right? Pretty much overnight.
And it turns out that wasn'tbecause of, of a massive crash
in the, you know, the sales of,of hound products or cough
drops that contain it orwhatever it was, because they
changed the inclusion criteriato exclude a bunch of products
that do contain hor horehoundextracts. But, and , and , and
used to be included in the, inthe data for the table, but

(47:04):
then they moved it out, right?
So , um, I, I mentioned that ,um, in part to like give some
context about Ivy Leaf here ,but also to give some context
about this investigation thatwe're doing in our series,
right? When we're thinkingabout this, you can't just say
like, here's the data and ittells me everything I need to
know. You wanna say, where didthat data come from? How has
that data changed over time? Isthe report I'm looking at today

(47:28):
using the same data set as theone that's from 10 years ago?
And if it's not, it can lead tochanges that might mislead you
if you don't have that sense ofcontext and that awareness
about what's going on there.
Alright ? Um, this is true inlots of things when it comes to
science and math and economics and whatever , um,
that it's easy to oversimplifyand it's easy to miss the

(47:49):
effect of something that'sseparate from the behavior that
you think you're tracking orthat you think you're
documenting. Okay? But let'stalk about Ivy Leaf itself,
right? So Ivy Leaf is arespiratory remedy, and that's
true through the tradition ofthe herb. That's true through
the modern expression of theplant in the market. Um,
nowadays, cough syrups andcough drops and products like

(48:13):
that are the primary thingsyou're gonna find that include
vy leaf extract. Um, sometimesyou do see single herb products
for vy leaf, you can find themcapsules, tablets, whatever.
Yes. Um, but most often it'sgonna be in a formula with a
bunch of other herbs and theivy leaf extract is in there to

(48:34):
be an expectorant to stimulatethe expulsion of phlegm from
your lungs to get that up andout clear, clear your lungs for
you . So yeah, so these areoften multi herb remedies. Like
I say , there are tablets,there are capsules, there are
single, you know, herb ivy leafsyrups and other things
available out there. But moreoften you're gonna get these

(48:54):
combo products, right ? Andfrom , from my part, I do think
that it's better to give IvyLeaf some friends. Um, when
you're working with it, itseems to function a lot better
that way. Uh, it is veryreliable for that purpose. You
know, you have a phlemmy cough,not a dry one, not a rattling
one where you cough and hack,but there's nothing in there
coming out. There's nothing,nothing, nothing coming

(49:16):
through. But one where there'sgunk, there's phlegm, it feels
heavy, there's a wet sound tothe breathing or to the
coughing, right? Those are thetimes when you want ivy leaf.
Kind of similar indications forother stimulating expectants
like Horehound or like campaign. Those are the same kind of
reasons that you would go aheadand work with Ivy Leaf. Okay?

(49:38):
Now, the tradition about thisplant does include a broader
array of applications than justrespiratory stuff, right? The
respiratory stuff is there, butalso some topical applications
, uh, for things like an ulcer,like a skin ulcer or various
rashes , um, on the surface ofthe skin, and then also for
swellings underneath the skin,right? Like there's a ,

(50:00):
especially a a , a soft lumpthat has formed somewhere on
the body. Um, and, and again,maybe even more especially so
for where the lymph nodes , um,are swollen. Um, in some of the
older texts, you see this justreferred to as quote swollen
glands, but they do mean theydo mean lymph nodes, right? So
like under the chin or underthe armpit or under the breast

(50:21):
tissue in the groin area, youknow, swellings in those areas
are lymphatic stagnation andpeople would take iv , they
would make a strong decoctionof it and soak a cloth and
place that over those areas andbasically do a compress for
some period of time, right? Um,or other methods of topical
application to try to move thatfluid from where it's been

(50:43):
stuck to disperse that to, toflood that away. Um, so all
those kinds of issues ofinflammatory , uh, irritation
and stagnation on the skin and, uh, particularly fluid
stagnation, right? So think ofthat in the respiratory thing
in the same context. We havetoo much wet gunk stuck

(51:05):
somewhere. We wanna move itaway and get it out, right? So
whether that's in the lungs orwhether that's like somewhere
stuck under the skin, you canwork with the ivy leaf to drive
that fluid out. Alright ? Um ,historically strong decoctions
of ivy leaf were also employedfor , uh, little biting bugs in
the hair. So lice , um, andthat sort of critter , uh, you

(51:30):
would again make a strong ivyleaf decoction, you would pour
that onto your head, you wouldlike soak the hair in it for a
while and like massage itthrough and it would drive away
the bugs. Uh, it would also, bythe way, dye the hair black.
Um, so, you know, be warned, , uh, there's certainly
easier ways to cope with licein the modern world. Um, but

(51:50):
you know, if we find ourselvespost apocalypse and you
remember , uh, me talking aboutthis , uh, back in the era when
we all had magic phones in ourpockets , um, then maybe you
find some ivy leaf, maybe youmake a strong decoction and
maybe you have fewer bugs onyour head for, for a night or
two. That sounds pretty good tome. Yep , I can keep that one
in my back pocket. Uh, I didwanna note that everything I've

(52:12):
been discussing here so far hasbeen about the leaf of the
plant, right? Um, uh,historical practices also did
include working with the resinor the exudate from the bark,
right? So you would need apretty well established , uh,
IV vine to find, right ? Butyou could slit the bark and
there's this exudate, it's likea resin that comes out from a ,

(52:33):
from a pine tree, somethinglike that, right? This one's,
you know, softer, it's not asthick, but anyway , so it's an
exudate. Um, it is a gum resin,chemically speaking. It has a
stringent activity to it and italso has an analgesic effect.
So you would see people workingwith this part of the IV and
making little , um, little ,uh, gob droplets or goblets of

(52:55):
it and putting those ontosomething like a toothache,
right? Put it right inside inthe gum, right up against the
tooth that hurts. Um, hold itthere, let it, let it kind of
absorb in, and it would serveas an in , uh, as a pain
relieving agent , uh, for that,for that reason. Um , also,
again, very stringent. So thisis actually making it kind of
similar to something like myrrhresin. Um, you know, many

(53:16):
resins have these effects of ,uh, of tightening the tissue ,
uh, oftentimes impacting thenerve in one way or another. In
this case, it's to dull thesensation of pain. Um, some
residents might stimulate yoursensation, so just ,
you know, not all residents areequal, but, but they share some
overlapping qualities,tightening , um, the mu mucosal

(53:37):
tissue and doing something tothe local nerve. Again, in the
case of the IV exudate, itwould be for pain relief. Um,
this again, is a historicalpractice. It's not really one
that I see herbalists speakingabout in the modern context.
Um, and you certainly don'tfind products , uh, oriented
around that. Um, but it'sinteresting to know. And , um,

(53:58):
uh, I think there's a lot ofaspects about the way people
used to work with herbs thathave changed over time. And
when I think about things likethat, I always wonder like,
will that come back again? Youknow, will that cycle around
again in some future societywhen people have more need of
that kind of thing or , um,when other items aren't
available? And , uh, you know,Ivy Leaf is, is a pretty

(54:19):
resilient plant. It seemspretty , um, capable of keeping
up with , uh, some of thechanges we're experiencing in
our climate. So , um, hopefullythis one will be around for a
good long while. All right , sothat's our , uh, three herbs
for today. Um, I'll put a fewlinks , uh, for further reading
and investigation into the shownotes here. And , uh, I'll put

(54:43):
also some links to the previousepisodes of the series. Uh, if
you, you can check those out ifyou haven't already. Um, before
I go, I wanted to remind youthat , uh, in addition to doing
this podcast, we have an entireherbalism school online. You
can learn from anywhere. Youcan learn at your own pace. Um,
all of our courses are centeredon video lessons, so it's just

(55:03):
as if you were in the classroomlearning directly from us. We
also make a lot of differentways for you to get direct
contact with , um, with us, meand Katya , your teachers, and
also our faculty members. Soevery lesson in our courses has
a discussion button and you canopen that right up while you're
still watching the video, typein your questions, you'll get
an answer within a day. Um, youcan pop over to our student

(55:24):
community, which is kind oflike social media, but just for
herbalists, , right?
And you can post in yourthoughts and your experiments
and what's you're in enjoyingand what's growing up in your
yard, and get some otherexcitement and, and feedback
from , uh, from your peers. Andwe have twice weekly live q and
a sessions where you can justask us questions right there in

(55:45):
a Zoom chat. Um, and , uh, anystudent enrolled in any of our
courses is invited to attendthose. Um, so you can find all
of our offerings@online.com andwealth herbs.com and I hope
that you'll check 'em out andfind something that you're
excited to learn. All right ,we'll have some more holistic

(56:05):
ALS and podcasts for you soon.
Until then, take care ofyourselves, take care of each
other, drink some tea, and hey,it might as well be some green
tea . All right , seeyou again. Bye.

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