How To Talk To Anyone

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Did you know that mastering the art of small talk could change your life? Join us for a fascinating journey into the world of effective communication and information gathering, where Greg and I bring our contrasting styles to the forefront. From hostage negotiations to courtroom dramas, you'll discover how leveraging the power of small talk can transform your communication skills.
 
 During the episode we explain the power of building trust through common ground as we share valuable lessons learned from personal experiences and family anecdotes. Whether it’s identifying key decision-makers, balancing confidence with authenticity, or engaging in casual conversation about shared interests, you'll learn how these vital skills can make social interactions safer and more meaningful. 
 
 Finally, we offer practical strategies for navigating social interactions with humor and authenticity. From the importance of situational awareness in everyday conversations to advanced techniques for de-escalation in high-stress environments, our insights are both relatable and actionable. Through real-life examples, you'll gain a deeper understanding of how to read a room, engage others effectively, and build rapport. Tune in to enhance your ability to connect, gather valuable information, and create positive human connections in every interaction.

Thank you so much for tuning in, we hope you enjoy the episode and please check out our Patreon channel where we have a lot more content, as well as subscriber only episodes of the show. If you enjoy the podcast, I would kindly ask that you leave us a review and more importantly, please share it with a friend. Thank you for your time and don’t forget that Training Changes Behavior!

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Episode Transcript

Brian Marren (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Human Behavior
Podcast.
Did you know that mastering theart of small talk could change
your life?
Join us for a fascinatingjourney into the world of
effective communication andinformation gathering, where
Greg and I bring our contrastingstyles to the forefront.
From hostage negotiations tocourtroom dramas, you'll
discover how leveraging thepower of small talk can
transform your communicationskills.
During the episode, we explainthe power of building trust

(00:23):
through common ground, as weshare valuable lessons learned
from personal experiences andfamily anecdotes.
Whether it's identifying keydecision makers, balancing
confidence with authenticity orengaging in casual conversation
about shared interests, you'lllearn how these vital skills can
make social interactions saferand more meaningful.
Finally, we offer practicalstrategies for navigating social
interactions with humor andauthenticity.

(00:43):
From the importance ofsituational awareness in
everyday conversations toadvanced techniques for
de-escalation in high-stressenvironments.
Our insights are both relatableand actionable.
Through real-life examples,you'll gain a deeper
understanding of how to read aroom, engage others effectively
and build rapport.
Tune in to enhance your abilityto connect, gather valuable
information and create positivehuman connections in every

(01:03):
interaction.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
We hope you enjoyed the episodeand please check out our
Patreon channel, where we have alot more content as well as
subscriber-only episodes of theshow.
Enjoy the podcast or kindly askthat you leave us a review and,
more importantly, please shareit with a friend.
Thank you for your time anddon't forget that training
changes behavior.
All right, hello everyone.
Thanks for hopping on with usand good morning, greg.

(01:25):
Today we are getting into alittle bit about communication
and kind of informationgathering and how we do that.
But the big thing I wanted toget into with this episode is
for those of you who don't knowand haven't met like us in
person or anything.
You know, greg, one of thethings that you always do is you
, you talk to everyone and, likeeverywhere we go, you're always

(01:49):
striking up conversations withpeople or getting into stuff or
asking questions about thingsand part of just your, your
personality, and you'reextremely outgoing and
everything like that.
But you know, and what we gleanfrom that is what I've found is
that we often get littlenuggets of information that end
up being useful.
It's almost like, uh, uh, whatwas that when?

(02:10):
Wayne's world, where I was likeman, I'm glad I met that guy,
or something like that.
And you know, we, you findsomething where it's like, um,
oh, the, when he, when he metthe, when he was getting gas I
think it was the second one he'slike, oh yeah, you go down to
this street and go down to thattree and then that's where the
church is.
And it's like, oh yeah, you godown to this region, go down to
that tree and then that's wherethe church is and it's like, wow
, that was extremely helpful atthe time or something.
So the reason why I want todiscuss this is like we end up

(02:32):
getting a lot of really greatinformation from it, but you're
obviously both a natural at itbut have also had different
training on communication.
You know, when you get to likehostage rescue uh, hostage
negotiator, excuse me, thatyou've done before in the past
and even having to like testifyin court, you have different
experiences that have also builton it, where I take a different

(02:55):
approach and, just because mypersonality is different, where
you're gregarious and outgoing,I'm like everyone please leave
me alone like it's just a littlebit, a little bit different.

Greg Williams (03:04):
I like being well , it's like the.

Brian Marren (03:07):
I, like you know the sniper reconnaissance
surveillance element.

Greg Williams (03:12):
Right, it's not an accident Kind.

Brian Marren (03:12):
of being hidden in the shadows.
Yeah, so you know there's acouple different ways that I
approach it, so I can.
I want to give mine after youtalk about yours, but for the
listeners going to give mineafter you talk about yours, but
for the listeners.
If you're tuning in right now,I want to give you some

(03:33):
takeaways that you can use.
And the big thing is trying tostudy one style of doing
anything.
Whether you're reading aboutcommunication or leadership or
something it's like look, readeverything that's out there,
watch it, take it in, and youkind of got to find what works
for you, because if you try todo something that doesn't fit
your personality, your characterand who you are, it comes
across as just weird, like it'sodd.
And you know, because it's thattime of the year, we're in the

(03:56):
middle of a presidential race.
Politicians are a great examplebecause some of them have to
work on that stuff.
Some are more natural speakersversus than others and and
you'll see when, like they'rebeing like robotic or doing too
much, and it looks odd becauseit's not their personality.
But some PR person told themlike hey, you got to do this
more, move your arms this way,and it's just so unnatural and

(04:19):
it looks weird.
So we we've seen that stuffbefore, but I just because it's
so relevant right now you cankind of see that where some are
better speakers than others.
But I want to go to you, greg,and first I kind of want to ask
you, you know, why you do this.
Why do you go talk to everyone?
And we'll get into then kind ofhow after that, but you know, I
think back was this somethinglike you kind of always did as a

(04:41):
kid and then you honed it asyou got older, or what is it
about that?
That, that why you do that yeah.

Greg Williams (04:48):
So first of all, great topic, great question.
The uh smoke and mirrors aregoing to part this morning and
we're going to get a look andand see that oz is actually a
guy from you know, kansas, notnot some super magician.
Because you used the wordnatural and this is one of the
few times that I'll tell you Imay appear as a natural now, but

(05:12):
it was a long road to get towhere I am now, and as a kid and
even now you know me betterthan almost anybody that I can
think of.
And you know I'm an introvert.
You know that I would ratherhole up in the hotel and read a
book than go out and party anddo all the other things.
That's just not me.
But I love our recount.

(05:33):
I love our pre-deployment sitesurveys.
I love those because it gets mein that Jeopardy mindset of
what is St Louis.
I love that.
You know I remember Secrets ofthe Jeopardy Champions.
We're going around the housenow.
Secrets of the JeopardyChampions was one of the first
books I read about Jeopardy andit said that the best champions
on Jeopardy were well-traveled.

(05:54):
They loved traveling places.
But that's not enough.
You can travel places and neverget out of the airport.
You can travel places and neverknow the people or the food,
and I'll take you back.
Just, you talk about a memoryand emotion link.
You remember when you and I werein Frankfurt and a plane was
delayed and we literally wentaround trying to find absolutely
everything that we could doabout the culture and about the

(06:16):
people and what was differentand everything?
In that time, before you know,we had left Saudi Arabia, we had
to catch the flight inFrankfurt and then coming back
here, and we didn't.
We used that time.
We were exhausted, we werefilthy, we were trying to get on
a plane but we said, okay, nowit's time for the street
interviews, now it's time forthe hey.
Uh, you know what's with thegummy bears?

(06:36):
And did you know that a Smurfwas called a schlumpf in Germany
?
That's the kind of shit thatkeeps me going, because you
never know where in that youwill find that gem, and you
brought that up as well.
That was genius for doing that,but as an introvert, you have
to literally force yourself.
I read a book when I wasyounger, from G Gordon Liddy
called Will, and Liddy wasafraid of thunderstorms and

(06:59):
lightning, so he lashed himselfto a tree in his yard during a
thunderstorm.
He was afraid of the rats inthe basement, so he lashed
himself to a tree in his yardduring a thunderstorm.
He was afraid of the rats inthe basement, so he went down
and took a broom handle and beata rat to death after cornering
it, and then cooked it and ateit.
Now that's extreme, but heovercame his introversion.

Brian Marren (07:16):
You see what I'm trying to say.
Get your point, yeah.

Greg Williams (07:18):
He also spent time in prison and watergate
scandal.
But other than those things,right, you know, you got to
balance right.
But so so, being a natural, mything was one watch my dad.
My dad was a Marine and ledinto every room with his chest
and his head.
You know, here I come, herecomes a Marine.
What are you guys up to overthere?
You know whose house is this Italk to.

(07:40):
And my dad used to give me thelittle tidbits too.
He was like, if you just walkin and just start talking to
people, that's not enough.
You got to figure out who theright person to talk to is.
Who's the check writer, whoowns this place, who's got a
stake in the game?
And I was like, well, why wouldthat be important?
And dad would lay it out for me.

(08:01):
He's like look, if a person's anatural, if you don't feel like
you're doing it, uh, uh, uh, ifit's not, if you're acting,
they'll find you out becauseright away they'll put their
hackles up and go.
Okay, what's?

Brian Marren (08:14):
this scam I've seen them.

Greg Williams (08:15):
I've seen those scams before right.

Brian Marren (08:17):
I mean, even even when you're not, even when
you're not, uh, trying to likethat, and that's why you're not
trying to get over on right foryou.
But but exactly, if you'retrying to do that, and that's
why you're not trying to getover on right, but if you're
trying to do that stuff, itcomes across as not natural and
so, like you see it as like okaythat you're being disingenuous,
that the fix is in, even thoughyou're just trying to be a
better, be more sociable.

Greg Williams (08:36):
Yeah, exactly, and you've met both of my
brothers.
So my brother Brian, biggestintrovert I've ever met in my
entire life, brian's sport wasswimming Talk about being alone.
All the time.
Brian rode a motorcycle Okay,talk about being alone.
No room for other passengers inthere, right, and as cool as he
was, he played red star, whitestar with Greg Daniels up in his

(08:59):
bedroom for days at a time.
Sometime they would have acooler up there playing this
board game that's on math and abig dice and all these other
things about warfare, you know.
And the idea is that you've metJeff as well, and Jeff never
wants to be in front of thecamera.
Jeff is always three layersback and he's been an executive

(09:19):
of Dictatory Protection for 40years and nobody would know it
meeting him because he's notthat guy, you know.

Brian Marren (09:25):
I don't even think he has a website, exactly,
protection for 40 years andnobody would know it meeting him
, because he's not that guy, youknow.

Greg Williams (09:28):
So.
So our whole family is that, uh, matt black rhino liner,
subdued shit that you see, butit's not out there.
So I learned early.
Okay, we would go into housesin Detroit in areas that were
rough, where the people didn'thave a lot of money and have to
go into basements and pourbleach so we would be able to
breathe fresh air and change theasbestos on a non-functioning

(09:51):
furnace.
So the first thing is thatpeople are very skeptical and
then you're running into otherpeople that aren't in on.
You're there to fix the furnace, so what's going on?
So you had to assuage thosefears so you didn't have this
high feeling of anxiety.
So even as a kid, I would findout very quickly what in the
environment is stuff that youcan talk to.
So you don't go into a house inthe inner city where you're in

(10:14):
a basement and water up to yourankles and go, hey, you got a
beautiful house or nice yard,because you're going to
immediately piss somebody off orsound like you're being
sarcastic.
So you had to pick somethingelse.
So, you see tools, or you see abench, or you see, uh, you know,
toys that are, you know,handmade or fashioned in a
different way.
Or you see a swing set and yougo, wow, that's in really good

(10:35):
shape.
And you mention it.
You go notice the swing set onthe way in.
Uh, those chains look brand new, seemingly nothing.
But the idea is that somebodyworked on that, somebody made
that, somebody took the time tofix that for somebody, and right
away you're searching forcommon ground.
Now you might not hit on thefirst one.
That that's why there's so manyat bats.

(10:56):
When you're playing baseball,if it was just the one at bat
and that was your only game thatyou were, playing for the
season you know.
So what are your stats?
One, uh, but the idea is thatwhat you do is then you measure,
because we're huge oninterpersonal right.
So you gotta see, are thechemicals firing in the brain?
Did the eyes go up?
Did the person show that littlesmirk where you see that

(11:18):
they're smiling at it?
You know and you say, well, achain like that wouldn't be good
for a dog.
And then the person person goeswell, why not?
It looks like it'd be too heavy, unless he had a big dog.
Okay, that's the second thing.
Now I know that they got a dogbowl.
That's in the corner.
So I'm being aware, situationalawareness, and I'm using it to
break the ice, so I can openlanes of communication, lanes

(11:40):
and lines, communicationbreakdown silos, all the shit
you hear all the time.
But why?
Why?
Because it makes for a saferatmosphere.
It makes it builds trust, itmeans that I can operate at the
speed of trust.
Right, those are importantthings to me, no matter what age
or location.

Brian Marren (12:00):
And you said it too just a minute ago, because I
want to hit on that real quickis that you know it's sort of
this finding common ground, andso it's now.
We're not at an adversarialrelationship or a power dynamic
relationship.
We're pointing to somethingover there and we're discussing
that, so we can sort of cometogether, we can be neutral

(12:21):
about that or we can agree onsomething.
This is why some people arelike, oh, I hate just small talk
and blah blah.
I was like no, you're supposedto talk to someone about the
weather and and how the rain isdoing this like that's finding
common ground, so that you canhave the next step of the
conversation you can do this, Imean same thing with, like, with
, uh, you know, uh, it's what,because what I used to do, too,
is even especially like in themiddle east and stuff like that.

(12:42):
It's like always have you knowit's what, because what I used
to do, too, is even especiallylike in the Middle East and
stuff like that.
It's like always, have you know, cigarettes on me, because
smokers are social people and soit'd be something.
Now we're doing somethingtogether.
Now we're having a cigarette.
Well, now we're we're we'reengaged in the same.

Greg Williams (12:56):
Different than everything else, except this we
share this Exactly, You're right.

Brian Marren (13:00):
Sorry.
So go back to that, but I justwant to highlight that is what
it is.
Is that common ground or thatcommon theme or something we can
talk?

Greg Williams (13:06):
about Very important point.
So let me show you howdifferent that is.
So you and I spend a lot oftime at rental car places and
hotels and places where theywant to get you in and get you
out.
I don't have time.
I've heard it all before.
When I'll walk in folks, I'llgive you one for free.
It's a Gregism.
I'll walk into a hotel.
I've never been at the hotelbefore.

(13:27):
Walk up to do the check-in andthe person says next, and I'll
step up with all my shit readybecause I don't want to be an
ass and delay everybody.
I'll look at them.
I'll say tell me about yourworst guest ever.
Immediately you'll see thatperson change out of what
they're doing and go guy came inwith three Dobermans and they

(13:48):
shit right on the floor, orthey'll start talking, yeah,
yeah, or whatever.
Yeah, I call that fishing.
So I'm fishing to see if theperson's open to a conversation.
Now, if they shut me down andsay something like, oh, I
couldn't tell you that, thenI'll change it to humor Boom, I
fire on the next like a rotor ina car Pop, pop, pop, pop.
The spark is firing to catchthe gas right To get that
internal combustion.
So the next one will be well, Imight just be that guest, so

(14:11):
you might want to share thatwith me.
Now I get a little bit of alaughter or something else and
they go okay, I got it.
So you're not sure where that'sgoing.
Look when I would go on policecalls.
The same thing.
The people called because theydon't know what to do.
So if you just show up with theproblem-solving attitude and
you don't engage in the smalltalk, right away they get the
feeling you're on the clock,staring at your watch, ready to

(14:34):
go.
Same with the car rental.
So, hey, is it okay to you guys?
Take a two-party out-of-statecheck with no ID, and then,
right away, the person stops fora minute and looks at you.
Check with no ID.
And then, right away, theperson stops for a minute and
looks at you Kidding, kidding.
Hey, listen, is there anyupgrades that we could get today
for free?
And now what you're doing isyou're talking.
You're not scamming anybody.
You know me, I don't give ashit if they're giving something
back, I just like having themsmiling and we leave.

(14:56):
They know my name, I knowtheirs, and the next time we
show up it's like Larry andthey're going hey, man, guess
what we did and I love that so.
So I need to check theatmospherics, and the best way
to check the atmospherics whichgets me into the geographics is
to go first for the biometrics.
What is it that I can sharewith this person while we're
talking?
Okay, that heuristic templatematch or prototypical match that

(15:19):
I can build with you in thefirst couple of seconds that we
meet.
Most people make their decisionon you in.

Brian Marren (15:49):
Yeah, so here's how I would explain that If I'm
watching this interaction and Ihe can't why he doesn't have a
credit card for me to hold theroom with, or something.

Greg Williams (15:56):
Right.

Brian Marren (15:56):
Exactly but but so so what, what you know, this
goes back to you know, whenyou're doing that.
It's like you know, kind of theanalogy we it's not to get if I
I don't want to go in, going,hey, I got to get this person

(16:16):
talking to me.
It's like no, I got to get thisperson talking, I got to get
this person on common ground.
I need to, I need to, I need toget them on the first step of
the stairs that we're about towalk up.
That's it.
I don't need them to go hey,check out this staircase, we're
about to walk up.
It's like no, and this goesback to that sort of small talk.
But if you make it a little bitmore personal, because you
didn't just go, man, weatherdown here in Texas is really

(16:39):
kicking today.
You know you use humor as atool because you know everyone
has some sort of sense of humor,like every human being, you
know, and we all laugh at thesame shit.
So it's really just to findthat common ground, that element
, and then allows you to sort oftake the temperature of where
this person's at and in, becausethe follow on interaction you

(17:00):
know we dealt with it where youcan tell we're right when we
walk in and we're going to checkinto a hotel.
And it's such a great examplebecause customer service gets
really tough and you know thatperson.
You can tell like they've beendealing with this person for a
while now, who's giving themsome problem about their room or
this or that, and you knowthey're done, their cup is full,
it's the end of their shift,they've been there all day and

(17:28):
you can just tell and it'speople are always thankful for
it, right, because it helps themget through their day.
And then it may help us, likeyou said, get that room upgrade
or those extra bottles of wateror some snacks from this.
I mean, like it's just aboutand it's just being a good human
being.
But what we really do isthere's some information
gathering purposes in that aswell too.

(17:48):
So good, let's stick, becauseyou brought up the hotel thing
and checking in Like why else doI want to do that, other than
just being a decent human being,which we have to remind people
to be a decent, fucking humanbeing?
Like what else?
What else am I getting out ofthat?

Greg Williams (18:11):
So so I wrote down a couple of comments,
because you always come up withthese great side spirals, and
one is you're talking about, youknow we're filling in that
baseline and comparing thingsagainst the baseline.
Folks on your way to therestaurant you're building the
baseline.
On your way through the parkinglot, you're refining and adding
things.
Right.
So the idea is, by the time I'mengaging with somebody at the
restaurant, I've got a whole lotof stuff that I can do.

(18:33):
So restaurant, target, 7-eleven, gosh damn hotel, rental car
place, wherever you're going togo muffler place because you got
to get your oil changed,whatever it is.
So Brian and I were in AtlanticCity and on the way into the
hotel we were probably a coupleof miles from the hotel I
started looking for the worstgosh damn crap hole in Atlantic
City that I could find andmemorize in the name, and then

(18:56):
we came up and, as I wasengaging in small talk with the
person behind the counter, Ilooked at who obviously was the
security, and I stopped what Iwas doing and I looked and I
said hey, we're thinking aboutgoing to Mondo's tonight for
dinner.
Is that a great choice, knowingfull well that the place is
half burned down?
You remember the people out infront.
The cars are up on jack andeverything, and the guy goes

(19:16):
holy crap, no, you can't go downthere.
You got to go.
What did I do?
I played into his suit.
So that's just like a game ofcards.
I got to figure out what otherpeople are holding and how I can
get them to show me whetherthat's going to be a good bet.
Should I stay on or get off,brian?
And so the other thing is youmade a comment about testing the

(19:36):
water.
Look as a swimmer.
I was a swimmer too, ran in afamily.
I guess as a swimmer, the thingyou had to do in the morning
because you were going to put ona lot of miles before a swim
meet is you had to go to thewater and jump in.
You never tested the water, younever reached down and hit the
water because it was always coldand there was always too much
chlorine.
So you got used to beinguncomfortable, as you would say.

(19:56):
You know, sucking it up, and ifyou would do the toe, then it
would take the foot.
And then you're doing the ankle, and now it's 45 minutes later
and you're up to your waistgoing oh, you know.
So you got to just jump rightin.
But it's exactly the oppositewith communication.
What you got to do is you gotto breach that threshold and not
be afraid to try.
But you got to try a little bitslowly.

(20:17):
Don't come in with a zingerright away.
Hey, what's with the fuckinghair?
There's ghosts in this place.
You don't want to come in likethat.
You're not Shecky Green.
You get what I'm trying to say,because if you're, off-putting
you know.
I mean, there's an environmentfor that.
If it's open mic night and I'mat the bar and I want to drink,
you know what I'm saying.
That's completely different.
I'll give you one more veryquickly, as we're narrowing down

(20:38):
on what this might feel likewith baselines.
So I went and got my haircut.
Look at this, I actually getthis cut and if I could find a
Flowbee, I'd buy it and do itmyself.
You remember the Flowbee glove?

Brian Marren (20:50):
Yeah, I do the set cut.

Greg Williams (20:52):
Yeah, exactly, there's another reference.
That's the second one and thatwas from Wayne's World 1, by the
way, yeah, sitting therewaiting for my haircut and you
know I arrived 20 minutes earlyfor every appointment, no matter
what, so I can get the lay ofthe land and shit People, you
don't have to do that.
10 minutes is enough.
But as I'm watching, this womanis getting her hair cut in
front of me and she's looking inthe mirror as the lady says,

(21:16):
okay, we're done, in other words, pay me and go.
And she looks and holds herhair and goes maybe a little
more here.
And I'm looking at it and it'sminutia, man, it's shit.
And so the woman cuts and comesand cuts and comes, and then
she looks and she goes, mayberight in here, and so she goes
back.
Brian, this took the whole 20minutes that I was early, going

(21:36):
back and forth on this littlebitty shit that only that woman
knew.
And then she finally paid andleft.
And what about the nextappointment?
All the small talk?
So I'm up next, I jump into thechair and the first thing I do
is look in the mirror and I gosomewhere right in here and she
burst out laughing.
Why?
Because I used her discomfort,the uncomfortable nature to

(21:57):
break the ice and go.
I, too, understand what justhappened.
I'm.
I have no idea how you got thepatience, you know.
And then the next thing I wouldsay to a person like that hey,
you're on your feet all day.
I'm on my feet all day.
What's the secret with socks?
Oh, you see what I'm trying tosay.
So I'm fishing.
Again I'm fishing.
What is it that this person isgoing to like to talk about?

(22:17):
Because, if not, oneuncomfortable silence gets us
nowhere.
Okay, and at the end of the day, what I might learn inside that
place could help me in futurebarbershops.
Or it could help me in theparking lot, a deescalated
situation that I'm going to getinto.
That's not your property oryour car or your dog, you never
know.
Do people ever get shot doingsomething stupid that you'd go?

(22:41):
There's no way somebody getsshot.
Look at road rage.
So I don't want that.

Brian Marren (22:44):
So, every interaction, I try to control
the pace of that interaction byopening up that door, letting
off that steam valve a littlebit Right, and so this is a good
point to bring up, becauseyou're sort of getting into like
, how you do this and give mesome good examples and playing
into what that person's sort ofrole is.
So like you going up to thesecurity guard and asking about

(23:05):
that place, that's not safe.
Okay, he is the security guard,so he is a protector, so he's
going to go.
Hey, man, no, don't do that.
Like you know what I mean,you're playing into that, that
role that they're playing,whether it doesn't matter what
the person is, you know how goodthey are at their job or what
they think.
You know you're, you're usingthe environment and what they,
what you should expect to see.
Now someone could be like, yeah,man, go there, whatever, I

(23:27):
don't care.
That's, that's different.
But you now get that becauseyou had more information going
into that conversation than thatperson did.
So it's the same thing with thecustomer service.
Right, check out a hotel server, whatever it is, where you're
engaging with customers.
That's part of your job.
So you do.
But it's one of those things.

(23:49):
Sorry, my camera came unpluggedsomehow, but we can keep going.
It'll fix itself in a second.
I think I actually don't noticethe difference that little
eight-point looks exactly likeyou.
But what you're sort of gettinginto is sort of the how to do it
and based on sort of like thisis where it gets into, based on
your personality in a sense.

(24:09):
This is where it gets into,based on your personality in a
sense.
And, for example, like I'm muchmore sort of introverted, not
as outgoing and stuff, but Ialso want to kind of throw a
rock in the pond and test thingsout, so it's it's sort of
playing to who you are.
Like you use a ton of selfdeprecating human it's.
It's it's a way for now to makeyou sort of the the object of

(24:34):
the joke, you know, rather thanmaking that person like the
object of the joke in a sense,because it it relieves tension
well, and that's what I mean.

Greg Williams (24:43):
I don't want to make them feel like you take
that on and all that time yeahso like how, like what, what
have you found in in sort of aCause?

Brian Marren (24:51):
you talked about it from being a kid and you know
, um, what you can, uh, um,sorry, this thing is giving me
some trouble, but um, you youtalked about from being kid and
going through dad on HVAC runsto all the way up to then you
did like your hostage negotiator.
Now you're just doing itno-transcript, when, the when

(25:39):
the AC is kicking and it's kindof hard to pull a little bit.
You know what, what's the thing, what's what's the, what's the
negative air machine that I needto put on there, since we're
we're on a we're on an HVACtopic, so I guess I'll just
stick with that.

Greg Williams (25:53):
Yeah, yeah, exactly All references today, no
.
So let's always think of theleast intervention and the least
objectionable outcome.
And you're back, by the way,and what I mean by that.
For example, I was a reallygood cop.
I loved being a cop.
I miss it every single day, andthe reason I love it is because

(26:14):
I was at the top of my cop.
I love being a cop.
I miss it every single day, andthe reason I love it is because
I was at the top of my game.
I could do no wrong and Ienjoyed the shit out of that.
And one thing that I would do isI would love busting bad guys.
So, even though I worked onmidnights and I would be running
into bad guys all night long, Iwould get a chance to switch
and do a day shift because we'regoing to a wedding or something
, or do an afternoon shift, andI would see lawn care crews out

(26:36):
there.
I would always pull over with abunch of donuts and a bunch of
coffee for the lawn care crew.
The boss never minded that fiveminutes are there people?
The same thing with carpentersthat were working, and people
would say why do you do that?
Well, here's one thing when docarpenters work?
When are they pounding nails?
When do lawn care people work?
They don't work at dusk, theydon't work after dark.
Okay, so that means thatthey're up in that neighborhood

(26:59):
at an elevated position orsomewhere that nobody pays
attention.
Nobody pays attention to a guymowing a lawn or using a blower.
So while they're thereconducting surveillance and
doing ISR before a bank robberyor to do a burglary, okay, who's
watching them?
The people in that neighborhood.
So if you've got a dog walkingservice that's walking three or

(27:19):
four dogs with the T-shirts,I'll always stop and talk to
them.
I'll bring them a breakfastburrito.
Hey, I work this area.
What did you see?
What are the cars that areparked?
Well, I'll tell you what Peopleover there.
They're always parked therebecause they're making out.
That's a meet me, eat me Peopleover there.
They're always parked therebecause they're smoking the
hashish or whatever it is, brian.
But they saw things andremember, when you look at them,

(27:39):
you don't see them Becauseyou're driving through the area
and you're mission focused onI'm setting up for this raid, or
I'm setting up for this arrestwarrant service or a search
warrant, or I'm going to robthis bank.
So you're so into that momentthat you're looking for what
You're looking for coppers,visible signs of authority, a
way to get out of there.
Hey, that 7-Eleven is closer tothe freeway than this one.

(28:00):
There's my exit strategy.
So that guy washing windows inan elevated position during the
day everybody tunes him up.
So that's my source ofinformation.
So now I conduct streetinterviews with those people,
which takes going up and goinghey, I got to either flash the
10 or go.
Hey, I'm new to this area.
Or hey, just got the weirdestquestion you've probably ever

(28:22):
been asked what's the worstthing that happened?
Now you've got that dialoguegoing.
But, brian, I'm using thatinformation to create a more
stalwart, a more uh, uh, uh,fidelityfilled baseline for my
next contact.
Do you understand that everycontact is like dominoes?
They're setting up so I canknock down that next contact.
Now I've got some insiderinformation.

(28:43):
Man, that was a long flight.
What did I just do?
I just put the ID.
I primed you to say, hey,where'd you come from?
Okay, now we're talking.
So I set you up.
So you know, I got my luggage,I'm coming up, I'm fishing for
my ID, you get what I'm tryingto say and I go world's longest
flight.
I've interested you insomething that's going on.
So you have to have a panoplyof strategies.

(29:05):
You can't go with just one, andyou also have to be able to
read the room.
So, just like we don't, Iremember, brian and I one time
we're down in Texas teaching andwhen we got down to Texas, uh,
my flights were late and I camein late and stuff, and so I did
a joke on day two.
That would have been perfect onday one, but the folks in the

(29:26):
room didn't know me for thatfirst day, and so they all
looked at me and crossed theirarms.

Brian Marren (29:30):
You had to dig yourself out a little bit.
I had to go whoa, we alreadyhad the rapport going and you
tried to come in off the toprope.
They're like who's this?
Guy, you weren't here yesterday, when we all became blood
brothers.
You know what I mean Exactly.

Greg Williams (29:42):
We know these guys, but we don't know you.
You didn't sweat with us.
We didn't have lunch together,so the idea is the same exact,
exact thing.
Now, look, when you're paid toput on a concert, people are
there in the seats for you tocome out and entertain.
That's not what you're doinghere.
What you're doing is you'retalking about a taxi driver or
you're talking about the personthat's bagging your groceries,

(30:04):
like, for example, always givethe side eye when a person comes
up, like nowadays, trying tofind a place that bags your
groceries or actually checks youout.
Okay, those were things thatmade us human.
Those were things that allowedus to interact with the world
around us, and we don't do thatanymore.
So always make sure that asyou're first coming in, or
halfway through your shopping orsomething, you look at the lane
that you're likely to go to andmemorize names.

(30:25):
So when you come up I just didit at a doctor's appointment
knew the kid at the counter thatopened the glass His.
I knew the kid at the counterthat opened the glass.
His name was Carl.
It's a small town, 10 feet away, so there's no way I could have
read his nameplate.
I go good morning, carl.
How's your day?
Okay?
Do you think that thatdeescalates the situation?
That opens all kinds of doors?
Wow, supposed to know this guy.

(30:46):
He clearly knows me.
What's going on here and whenyou see that smile or when you
see that nod, now you know wegot something.
I've showed up on calls wherecops are surrounding people and
they've got every form of lesslethal out and one person's
ready with the lethal andthey're circling and that
person's turning and it's readyto go sideways.
It's shit sandwich with theshit being lit on fire.

(31:08):
And I go to somebody hey, notto interrupt what's going on
here.
Hey, man, this guy ain'tlistening to anybody and Father
Flanagan would come out.
I would reach into my bag oftricks and I'd come out and, oh,
what are we doing, son?
I'd go right back to going myway with Bing Crosby and channel
that old Irish priest and Iwould go like, hey, take a look

(31:28):
around you real quick, it'sabout to be humpty-dumpty.
It's about to be humpty dumpty.
You're going to get the thumpty.
What is it I can do or say toget inside your head and not
have this happen?
I'm not afraid of anybody.
Are you afraid of me?

Brian Marren (31:39):
you're not afraid of me yeah, tell me why you're
not afraid.

Greg Williams (31:41):
Anyway, guess what we're doing, brian.
We're talking.
We're not beaten, you know, andthe idea is, the more I can get
you to talk, even when you'reagitated or pissed off, the less
you're using your fists andfeet and fighting me.
But I, going back to the firstsentence you used today on the
call, can't be adversarial if Icome in, adversarial if that's
where I'm gonna go and you'renot paying, yeah, and the

(32:03):
problem might have is too is.

Brian Marren (32:05):
sometimes the environment sort of sets up
almost an adversarial or or notnecessarily adversarial but
there's like one person in power, the other person has none kind
of role and and you see this alot when people get upset like
airports are perfect because youget the gate agent, your job to
do, you people coming up anddoing stuff and asking all kinds
of questions, and it's likeeveryone's first time flying,

(32:28):
like they forgot how to doanything, right.
These are just kind of stressfulsituations in general.
But because the environment isset up that way, it's almost you
start from that kind ofadversarial I'm on my side,
you're on behind the desk herewhere I'm not allowed back, and
you're the one in charge and Ihave nothing.

(32:49):
So people get kind of like theysort of feel a little
threatened by that, sometimestoo so, and I'm sort of just
taking from the otherperspective to someone walking
up and asking a question andbeing being approachable and
allowing people to come up toyou, right, everyone talks about
there's different ways to dothat and to look in a manner
where no one wants to bother you.
Um, you know, or or or set up,and sometimes we'll do that with

(33:12):
people, that's, I won't getinto that on the show when we're
when we're trying to throw arock in the pond, where
someone's clearly putting upbarriers, and then we go drop
right down in the middle of themto break those.
But it kind of reminded me of acouple.

Greg Williams (33:23):
Here comes that yellow smoke man.
Yeah Well here's.

Brian Marren (33:25):
There's a couple one, there's one I saw.
It's actually it's pretty funny.
He's I think he's a comedian orwhatever, but I saw it on
social media clips.
But he walks up to the gateagents and he's recording it
from the side and he's got themicrophone on so you can hear
the conversation.
And he walks up, he's like hey,I'm so-and-so, I'm in seat 33F,
whatever.
I'm traveling with my wife andwe're not seated together.
But I'm supposed to be up hereasking you if you can seat us

(33:50):
together, but I actually don'twant to sit next to my wife, so
I'm just having thisconversation and they're like oh
my God.
So now they're so uncomfortableand they're kind of like
laughing, but it's that nervouslaughter but it's.
It's just like it's it'sbreaking the ice.
And the other one I saw, reallywe remember when we were at we
were at a school and we had thiskid come up who was kind of

(34:11):
just an odd kid and he turnedout to be a real odd kid but he
was a great guy and and you know, and there's a mix of these
students and and law enforcementofficers in there, and so
there's these two guys that were, like you know, had been cops
for a long time, big SWAT dudeslike shaved head muscles
everywhere, just kind of satdown because it was before the

(34:32):
class started and this kid wassitting by himself and we just
see him get up, go over and justplop right down in front of
these guys and just have this,just start talking to them and
you could tell they're kind oflike hadn't had their coffee yet
and they're just like, okay,but they're trying to be
friendly and nice and they werelike a little annoyed.
But you know, what we learnedis we found out from that that
guy we had him on the podcastAustin, uh, and and he basically

(34:55):
cause of his issues and socialissues and sitting in his mom's
basement forever, he realized hehad to make a change.
So he started going out cause hewas terrible at like social
interaction.
So he did the G Gordon Liddylike you're talking about.
He just forced himself.
He went to a mall and he goes.
Well, why don't I go to theseold people?
Because they're not threatening, they have no one to talk to,

(35:19):
so they probably want to talk.
They're here in public and hewould sit down and just try to
have conversations with people.
And so it was his own personaldevelopment that he did.
But when you see that stuffhappen, it was so powerful when
we got the whole backstoryBecause I'm like, what is this
kid doing?
How does he just walk up andplop down next to these two jack
dudes with guns who he doesn'tknow at all?
And I mean it can take kind ofa lot, but because of who he is

(35:40):
and how he looks and his affectand how he approaches it, it's
completely non-threatening, likeit's.
It's.
It's, in fact, it's almost likeoh God, I got to talk to kid
you know.
I mean but but that's, that'sgood right and you're smiling,
going what's?

Greg Williams (35:53):
yeah, because now I have some empathy for him now
I'm trying to see it throughhis perspective.

Brian Marren (35:58):
Now it's like, okay, it's, this is, this is
harmless and that that approach,um, uh, kind of kind of works.
So you know, the the kind ofnext thing I want to get into,
because we're talking aboutreally just easing tensions.
This is de-escalation, is whatyou're talking about.
And get you know there'sbenefits, everyone,
psychological de-escalation,everyone benefits from that.

(36:20):
That person who's had a longday, you benefit it from some
way.
The other people do.
It lightens tensions.
It's just easier when we're alllaughing, having a good time,
right, um.
So so it's like sort ofestablishing and finding this
common ground.
And you know, the other thing Ikind of want to get into is that
that also really determines thebaseline for the situation.
It determines it gives me acomparison point, because now I

(36:41):
know if someone is still, eventhough you're trying and it's
obvious, you're trying to sortof ease the tension or have a
conversation, and they're stillputting up barriers or they are,
are, you know, back and we'renot going along with it, now
that also gives me some insightinto that person and maybe their
intent.
So so how, how do I, how do Ido that, or what can I glean

(37:05):
from that, from people who don'twant to go along then or
continue to say almost argue, soyou get what I'm saying.
So now it's almost like it'ssort of not escalating a little
bit, but it's helping me reallydefine the situation and what I
can glean from it.

Greg Williams (37:20):
First of all, for everybody listening, write this
down.
This works just as well on aphone call.
A phone call is a non-text,verbal interchange over your
thing that you carry in yourhand.
Most people don't make phonecalls anymore.
We make a lot, and during aphone call not a Zoom, an actual
phone call you can do thesesame skills.

(37:41):
Second, okay, you've been withme at 1,000 hotels, most of
those for work and on the wayout, when we're going shopping
for class the next day, or whenwe're going to dinner, I always
ask the person working thecounter the same thing hey,
brian and I are going out todinner, can I bring you anything
?
And I say it just like I did.

(38:03):
So it's very genuine because Iwould actually get them
something or bring themsomething from the store if they
need it.
Because I've been in thatposition.
I know what it's like working,you know, midnight shift, having
to watch the phones from two tothree or whatever the hell it
was, and that's a greaticebreaker, that's a great way
to get that person involved in aconversation.
And then they recognize youwhen you come back in and don't

(38:26):
say may I help you when you'vebeen staying at the hotel for
three days.
Second thing is, you can pulloff a character and it's okay to
be afraid.
I'll give you an exam.
There's Father Flanagan, that'sone of my characters.
There's also Peter Falk inColumbo, where I go.
I just don't see that stuff isnot adding up here.
Help me understand what I'mdoing wrong or what I can do to

(38:50):
fix this situation.
I mean, we go to places and thecar's not there.
We go to places and it's thewrong hotel room.
We go to places where theybooked us in Columbus Ohio and
we're in Columbus, georgia.
So now, all of a sudden, thatperson at the counter doesn't
give a shit.
They got nine people standingin line behind you.
How do I get on your hey,listen first.
I standing in line behind you.

(39:15):
How do I get on your hey,listen.
First I want to tell you thanksfor what you're doing today.
I know this can't be easy foryou.
Second, you got to be a waythat we can figure this out
together.
Help me, help you.
How do we solve that problemwhen you're there, rather than
tapping your foot and beingagitated and placing blame on
somebody that doesn't need theblame, you're more apt.
You're more likely to get whatit is you want.
If I come up and I go, this isfucking ridiculous, get me a

(39:36):
supervisor.
What did I just do?
I just elevated theconversation to a place that
might be unattainable.
Later I might have reached thethreshold with this person in
front of me and then the nextthing is fisticuffs, so
psychological or verbalde-escalation.
You know, I remember reading allthe books I had to get

(39:56):
certified in the state ofColorado.
They were all about the youknow, meat eaters and plant
eaters and this and that, and Inever found any of that shit
helpful.
What I found helpful is readingthe environment before you open
your mouth.
Then, once you it's okay to bea little bit afraid open your
mouth.
Commit when you commit tosomething.
If the person doesn't, brian'sexactly right.

(40:17):
If you're not meeting mehalfway, there's got to be a
reason why, and that could beeither you're the wrong person,
you have some physical or mentaldifference in your character
that's not allowing you to be atthat level, which is okay too.
That doesn't mean you're goingto be a classic obstructionist,
or you are an obstructionist.
This happens a lot when we'reHR or coppers or in a command

(40:41):
role.
Let's say that you're in aleadership position and you
encounter somebody that'sbristled already and they don't
want to talk to you.
Well then, explain to them.
We're never going to getanywhere if you don't tell me
what's going on, what's theissue here.
Don't say what's wrong, becausethat intones wrong, you know.
And don't say well, like I'veseen people come up and go well,
you're acting like a completeasshole.

(41:01):
Tell me you know.
Or coming up and saying calmdown, brian.
How well does that work?
oh, yeah, you might as well havea gas can and a road flare to
throw at somebody.
So the idea is to start small,in a rehearsal at your local
7-Eleven, at a gas station, atsome place that's close to your
house, and go in there threetimes this week and buy

(41:24):
something, buy a pack of gum,and the third time okay, first,
two times I haven't saidanything, just watch and listen.
Third time, third time thatweek that I buy a pack of gum.
Look at the person and go howmany packs of gum have I bought
this week?
And the person goes what?
And you go, I'm the same guyevery other day and I'm going to
be here in two days to buyanother pack.
Leave it at that.
Then two days later, come backand go, guess what I'm here for.

(41:46):
That's right.
I'm here to buy the pack of gum.
What I'm doing, brian, is I'mbuilding that trust by creating
a little bit of inroad, and Ican't build the whole gosh damn
aqueduct on it.
I've got to take it slow, youknow, and people are going to go
.
I don't have that kind of time.
That's why you're in a fixedyear and and the barrier to
entry here is this If I'm sofocused on this, that I can't

(42:09):
look you in the eye and senseyou on your phone and I can't
look at like Brian.
You know how old this jacket isand I still wear it.
I still have the brown one.
I wear that.
That's not accidental.
That's to get inside of yourhead.
I have my shirt untucked.
That's to create a persona thatyou have an expectation of, so

(42:31):
I can build on that when I'mcreating or bouncing something
off, testing the baseline.
So those are intentional.
When I fly, I wear my flyingoutfit.
When we teach, I wear myteaching outfit.
None of that is accidental andI think the people listening to
the podcast should try that.
And you're going yeah, but Iwear a uniform every day.
Yeah, but is there a specialpin or a special thing you say,

(42:53):
or the type of pen you hold?
Saudi Arabia, all the men haveto wear exactly the same
clothing.
So what do they specialize inthe pen that's in their pocket?
Every pen is different and itdefines you, so you can find
what defines you as well.
And maybe it's religious.
Maybe you say have a blessedday at the end of every contract
or praise God in between yoursentences.
It doesn't matter what it is,brian, but being consistent in

(43:15):
that then people recognize youwhen they see you again or they
go.
Oh, I know this guy, he'sharmless and that's an important
standard too.
De-escalation is a two waystreet.
I have to lead you to want,want to deescalate with me and
lower the anxiety level in theroom.

Brian Marren (43:32):
Yeah, and and there's, there's sort of
different, different methods,and you know, I go back to kind
of what I was was talking aboutat the beginning of everyone's
sort of you know, personalityand character is a little bit
different, so you sort of haveto find what, what works for you
, or or create something whereyou know, like you gave the

(43:54):
example, I'll untuck one part ofmy shirt, I'll drop some of my
stuff, I'll kind of be the bigbuffoon as sort of a disarming
technique.
You do that because, also,you're a big guy and you can
come across as intimidating.

Greg Williams (44:08):
Exactly.
I don't want to get punched inthe face at every time I meet.

Brian Marren (44:11):
You don't.
You don't want to start thatoff, so it's almost like, uh,
you're creating, um, you'recreating, like you said, that
the persona, that character, andand you're you're also kind of
interrupting their um, naturaltendency to put you in a certain
category or a box or somethinglike that, right, so so I'm
creating a little bit ofcognitive dissonance on there so
that it forces that person totake an extra second or a minute

(44:36):
or whatever to to look at yoursituation differently or not
categorize you as oh, here'ssome guy just coming up
complaining again, or somethinglike that.
You know in, in, in, comingacross genuinely that way.
But you know, like you said, ifyou, if you said, if you're
trying to trying to do too muchor you're being robotic, it's
not going to come across asgenuine.
And now they think that you're,you're up to something.

(44:57):
And so this is when, when youknow you brought up some
examples of, like buying thepack of gum or going in there
these are small things you knowyou can do and sort of practice.
Practice, in a sense, you canget, everyone can get better at
it and, and it is harder becauseyou brought up I do want to get
into that, though you broughtup the, the cell phone, right,
is everyone staring at it andyou know it's like these people

(45:21):
talking about situationalawareness and stuff all the time
, like it's it's way easier nowthan it ever has been my entire
life to find out who's doingwhat and who's up to no good.
It's so much easier becauseeveryone is just glued to your
phone.
So if you're not, you know whyyou have a little bit higher

(45:57):
level of, just because they'redesigned that way to keep us on
there longer.
But literally then we startbuilding habits of how often
we're on our phone and whatwe're looking at and all that.
You kind of got to get into thatother person's head and kind of
do the mental etch-a-sketch andshake it up a little bit.
Right, you have to like get,get their attention because
there's so much competing for it.
And that initial thing becauseyou bring up this is this is a

(46:19):
great one to show the sort ofgenerational difference, like
some of the things you'retalking about, someone younger
is like I don't want to do that,or that's cringe, or uh, that's
, that's weird, weird, or that'sit's like no, it's, it's not,
it's it's you.
You may find it weird, but thatdoesn't mean it actually is or
what I.
That person is lacking in thoseareas of of communicating and

(46:41):
used to like not used to lookingat people in the eye all the
time.
Well, I can take that intoaccount and go, you know, I can
use that then, right, so if Iknow that's a difference, or I
know that you're uncomfortablewith that, well, that's, that's
something also I can use to help, you know, kind of lower the
attention in the situation ormake it less, you know, make it

(47:02):
less awkward or something, andand these are things that that
you kind of got to practice.
So, like, cause personally, me,personally, me I'm, I'm
definitely more introverted.
Um, you know, I don't justconstantly I'm not.
I mean, yes, all humans areconstantly on transmit, but I'm
not super social when I'm out inpublic because I have things
that I'm trying to accomplish ordo, so you know to to get

(47:25):
outside of that comfort zone,like those are all things that I
used to have to do and forcemyself to do, right, even when
it came to like teaching orsomething I had my own style or
very comfortable with certainthings, but then I kind of kind
of learn, like, all right, well,if I really want to get in the
heads of people, if I reallywant to make this dynamic, I
have to practice these fewthings and so, just taking them
one step at a time, you learnwhat happens is your own style

(47:49):
comes from that.
Then the time you learn whathappens is your own style comes
from that.
Then, right, once you push outof that comfort zone and getting
in and just chatting withpeople and having those
seemingly mundane conversationsum, I don't find them to be
mundane conversations at all.
Um, in, in fact, if someone istalking to you and they're
bringing up stuff and oh, thatweather, you know they're,
they're what they're attemptingto engage you in conversation

(48:11):
and you know everyone kind oflike is there's just like bash
on, just oh, this small talk BS,and it's like, no, that's what
makes the world go around,that's what allows us that
ability to converse with peoplewe've never met, because
everyone can talk about theweather and it's a pretty much
affecting everyone the same way.
So you're literally startingfrom a place of common ground

(48:34):
and and those small things go,they pay dividends in the long
run, because next thing you knowit's five minutes later and you
know every piece of informationabout that person that you
could ever want.
Um, and whether or not that hasvalue to you is different, but
you know it's it's.
It's helpful in thosesituations to look at the
mundane, look at the normal,look at the typical, and then
how do I kind of insert myselfinto that?

(48:56):
And I, you know, looking at theenvironment that you're in and
playing to that role that thatperson's playing, what is the
role that they're playing atthat time and place and what is
your role?
Right, if I'm going to play therole of the passenger when I'm
traveling, what else should Iexpect to see with that role?
And I can use that because it'sit's a legitimate place to come
from.
And, you know, maybe I'm justtrying to get a seat upgrade,

(49:36):
no-transcript, that is, half ofthem are fucking bullshit anyway
and half of them don't evenapply to that and the other half
rarely apply to that individual.
But then we start to become thatperson.
We go, oh, this is my issue, Ihave social anxiety.
So now you start doing things,acting as if you're the person

(49:58):
with social anxiety where maybeyou really don't.
You get what I'm saying.
It's like we come up with theseown sort of faulty attributions
to our personality or behavior,because I saw a really
interesting YouTube short on itand that's me, that's totally me
.
So it kind of corrupts the waywe look at things and that's why
we go back to all the stuff isjust normal, typical behavior

(50:20):
and that's the important stuffto look at.

Greg Williams (50:23):
No, even more important.
And Brian, spot on.
Everything that he's saying isspot on.
Let's go back to what you said.
People are constantly ontransmit my haircut, my jacket,
the 25-year-old shirt that I'mwearing today, all of the things
, my shoes, the fact that I'vegot them off because my gosh
damn feet are hurting, all ofthose are telling a story.
So my clothes tell a story myhaircut, my breath, whether I

(50:44):
brush my teeth, the glasses Ichoose, or whether I'm, you know
, wearing cardboard lenses, youknow, with plastic sheets on
them.
The cats I choose, the car Idrive, the color of the car I
drive, the things on the porchat my house they're all
screaming to me.
That's you.
You're trying to tell me aboutyou and the choice that you make

(51:06):
and the things that you like,because you want to tell your
story, because you're human andyour ego, whatever you want to
call it, your insides make youwant to be friendly, because you
don't thrive or survive ifyou're a loner and if you're way
out there on your own.
There's so many things that wecould go into the psychological

(51:27):
problems, the mental issues, thephysical issues and all that
other stuff of not being aroundpeople.
And it's fine, it doesn't makeyou, you know.
It doesn't mean that you're anoutcast, but a loner is a very,
very specific type ofpersonality trait.
But if you're constantly ontransmit, then I want to hear
your story.
That's the difference.
I remember folks.

(51:48):
You got to understand that,like I've been teaching for so
long now and I'm always teachingwith people that are at the top
of their game.
So I've got the senior master,chief dive bubble expert on all
bombs in the entire world, andI've got to teach them how to
get out in front of people anddo this course of instruction,
this little period, this threeslide thing, and they're out

(52:09):
there going.
Well, I'm a quiet professionaland I, you know, can't get down
to your level.
Well then, you're never goingto connect with anybody.
You might be the best atsomething, but if you can't
remember the guy uh uh Ross thatdid the paintings and he showed
you how to do the paintings, no, in full.
Well, you'd never make yourshit look like, but he sure was.
What was he, brian?
He was transparent and he wasvulnerable.
He went out there and showedyou how to do it.

(52:31):
So the idea is that first ofall, you got to wear your heart
on your sleeve.
You have to be in a motor, youhave to have some level of
emotions.
One of my favorite shows on TVand one of my favorite stars
Jack Webb and Dragnet.
Just the Facts, get straight toit.
The fast talking, high pantsOkay, those were great shows and
they showed what thisquintessential cop was like.
That's not cop work at all.

(52:52):
Those people are going to shutyou up unless you're thumping a
bunch of people or doing it atgunpoint all the time.
You know that's a differentstory and you know we look at a
situation, look at the situationwith the Dallas coppers that
got gunned down by one personduring a parade and remember the
fear and the hate and the deaththat was going on there.

(53:12):
Now we take a look.
Democratic National Conventionis on and I heard a couple of
Chicago cops arguing about thepro-Palestinian protesters that
were outside, but there musthave been a thousand of them.
Yeah, but you know what?
None of them were trying tokill you and you know what.
No-transcript.

(53:56):
What am I trying to do today?
And getting through with theleast amount of friction and
ripples is a good thing.
So opening up lines ofconversation, lessening the
anxiety level, being a littleafraid, but trying something new
, those are great things.
Why do we put people in seatsat the class?
Why do we force them into acolor and say this is your cell?

(54:17):
We want to get them out oftheir comfort zone, brian, so
they're more apt to go acrossthe street and ask those tough
questions.

Brian Marren (54:23):
So what, what?
Um?
Do you have any examples thatlike typically work all the time
, or that you've seen that oneof the hey, one of the easiest
things to do, the lowest calorieways to do this or to or to
talk to someone or to getinformation like that, or just I
would just say, wind that back.
What's the easiest way toestablish enough of a connection

(54:47):
or common ground to have aconversation?
Have you experienced anythinglike you see across the board
that typically works?

Greg Williams (54:56):
Yeah.
So pick something that noteverybody knows about.
You've heard me say it azillion times Do your homework.
So Brian brought up somethingjust a few minutes ago about
going and trying to get anupgrade on a plane.
It's rarer than hen's teeth andit's not going to happen to you
because loyalty programs andthere's a list and there's a
line and all these other thingsthat they got to put people and
it's all about pay.
So if you're going to paysomebody, they're going to bump

(55:18):
you up, but if you're not,they're not.
So those are things you got todo before you get to the airport
.
Know that that's going to pissher off.
But if you say something likehey, look, if anybody at the
last minute has a fear of flying, and they bail and they got a
better seat than the shitty seatI've got, please come back and
get me.
My name's Greg, something likethat is okay and they'll laugh a
little bit and they'll thinkyou're half joking.

(55:39):
But you know what, if thatsituation does arise, as odd as
that would be, they'll say, hey,where's that fat guy?
And they'll come back and talkto Greg.
The thing is simple.
Stuff Like, for example, afemale might take a time on her
outfit to make sure that herearrings match a brooch or
something, and so you can pausefor just a second, look like you

(56:00):
were going to walk by and thensay, hey, are those like
heirlooms, or did you buy themall at once?
Something simple like that.
Now remember if it's timingthere's a fire on the plane and
everybody's trying to get offnot the time to play your game.
Do you get what I'm trying tosay?
But something like the haircuthey, listen, I can never get my
haircut to look that good.
Do you go locally or do you doit yourself?

(56:21):
Things like that are not sopersonal and they're generic
enough and you mean it.
So you're really asking aboutit.
Like you know.
Hey, I noticed you guys went toa different color on your
uniforms.
How do you?
How are you liking that?
I like that a lot or not?
You know a holiday coming up.
What was the weirdest thingthat's happened today?
Because a holiday.
Hey, full moon last night.

(56:41):
You know what cops say about afull moon.
You have to have a line, and Irefer to that as banter, and you
have to have banter that buildson something that's there.
So to be legitimate, it has tobe something that's reasonable
in the environment.
You get what I'm trying to say.
You can't come up and go hey,you know what I'd buy if I
fucking won the lottery?

(57:02):
Okay, oh, holy shit, I didn'tknow there'd be a quiz.
Do you get what I'm trying tosay?
You can't be so far afield butsaying something like hey, today
I got to wear a tie and I thinkI left it in my carry-on.
That's a great thing.
What did I just do?
And then the person goes well,I've got extra ties, or maybe
you can buy one when you land.
Now I'm talking.
And once you're talking, that'sthe key, brian.

(57:22):
Once you're talking and we'vegot something going restaurant
hey, what's the most popularappetizer?
I'm not going to order, I justwondered if you knew what it was
.
Or what do you eat when you eathere?
And then a person gives you thatoh well, don't try the fish.
Yeah, exactly so.
Are there any fish you knowlike, is there any Atlantic cod
indigenous to Missouri?
You know it's starting off withjust the dumbest thing.

(57:43):
Like that is sometimes a lot offun, you know, and we do that
to just psychologicallydeescalate, to open the door to
later.
Now, if that person's justcoming back and forth and
grunting and throwing shit downin front of you.
Maybe you need to pick a newrestaurant or a new waiter next
time that you're in there.
But I do the same thing as alibrary, I do the same thing at
a Target, anywhere that I go,and I'll tell you don't forget

(58:06):
the people that are cleaning up.
Look, you might have two orthree jobs and you're buffing a
floor at six.
When I go in the morning toCity Market to buy my shit, stop
and tell that person hey, thatlooks really good, you're doing
a great job.
People appreciate that, but youkeep bringing it back to making
it genuine.

Brian Marren (58:26):
I say that if you really mean it, it's going.
It's kind of talking aboutfinding something that you could
almost compliment someone on orgive them a little attaboy or
anything like that.
You really get that, especiallyif it's something customer
service related.
They have to deal with theworst people and so those little

(58:49):
things.
They end up going a long wayand, uh, you know you, you're,
you're making something personalto them, but not it not not
personally invasive, you're notlike asking them about, you know
, is your like what do you look?

(59:10):
at that Horrible.

Greg Williams (59:12):
Tommy, you got the reason I'm saying that it's
Brian has to strike upconversations at the clinic all
the time and I'm sure that someof those conversations are
happening around you.

Brian Marren (59:33):
So you always have to take the moral high road
while you're getting those veryimportant test results.
Oh my god, yeah.
So we, we, um, we kind of we wecovered a lot and, uh, you know
, start the, the importance ofit.
You know all of those seeminglymundane interactions are.
That's what situationalawareness is meaning being able
to figure out that and read thetemperature of the room.
Well, you have to do that, andthen you have to test your
hypothesis and you have to throwa rock in the pond, and doing

(59:53):
that in a constructive manner ora deliberate way updated.
Yeah, and you're getting a feelfor, for what's what's going on
and and those, yeah, the hotelones are great.
Like you know, when you come in, it's like super dirty
somewhere.
It's like, oh, great.
And then it's like, well, hangon, I don't know.
It's like, hey, you guys gotsome construction going on.
Like, yeah, they're redoingthis place.

(01:00:14):
It's a mess.
Now it's like, okay, good,there's a reason.
It's not because they don'tcare, there's something going on
.
It's just it's.
It's it's kind of hypothesistesting and and using, you know,
just the seemingly mundane,cheesiest conversation.
Conversation is going to getyou farther than trying to come
up with some whiz bang questionwhere they have to give you some

(01:00:36):
exact piece of information.
You never know what it's goingto find.
You just have to sort of pull,pull at the strings as it as it
comes along.
So yeah, that was your homework.
Yeah, we covered a lot.
Any kind of final words on it,greg?

Greg Williams (01:00:53):
One thing is if you do it every day, you get
better.
Point one, Point two it's a lotof fun and it doesn't hurt
anybody.
Being kind and beinginquisitive, those are great
traits.
As a matter of fact, I hopethat I pass that on to my
children and their children.

Brian Marren (01:01:09):
Yeah, that's a great point.
Thanks everyone for tuning in,and don't forget that training
changes behavior.