Orientation: How We Make Sense

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Human Behavior
Podcast.
Today we are exploring one ofthe most critical yet overlooked
aspects of human perceptionorientation.
From how we align our senses ineveryday life to the mental
models that help us navigatehigh-stakes scenarios,
orientation underpins ourability to interpret and adapt
to a constantly shifting world.
We'll look at how functionalfield of view determines what we
notice and miss, howsense-making weaves new

(00:23):
information into existing mentalmodels and why cognitively
close enough training canprofoundly influence our
real-world decisions by breakingdown the science behind vision,
attention and learning.
We'll show you how a deepergrasp of these concepts not only
enhances our situationalawareness, but also improves our
capacity to detect anomalies,mitigate threats and seize
opportunities.
Whether your focus is personalsafety, organizational

(00:45):
leadership or just day-to-daydecision-making, this
conversation will arm you withthe practical insight you need
to be more observant, moreprepared and more effective,
because, ultimately, orientationis about positioning yourself
for success in any environment.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
We hope you enjoyed the episode.
Don't forget to check out ourPatreon channel for additional
content and subscriber-onlyepisodes.

(01:05):
If you enjoy the podcast,please consider leaving us a
review and, more importantly,sharing it with a friend.
Thank you for your time andremember that training changes
behavior.
All right, good morning, greg,hitting this one early morning
before the holiday break comingup.
So we're getting towards thattime of the end of the year and
today we've got an interestingsort of conversation and some

(01:28):
things that we want to bring upabout something that we talked
about in class, aboutorientation and functional field
view, and I'll explain what itis in a minute.
But the goal is to kind of havea larger kind of sociological
understanding of how thingsaffect us as humans.
So for this one, what I'll dois I'll kind of run through the
overall kind of overview of whatwe're going to be talking about

(01:49):
and then we'll get into some ofthe details and I'll go to you
for that to kind of walk usthrough from sort of, I guess,
tactical to strategic or microto macro, however we want to do
it.
So small to big, I guess, isthe simplest way to put it.
But so here's the thing thatwe're doing.
So today we're discussing aseemingly simple concept that we

(02:13):
talked about during training aswell as on the show, and that's
orientation.
So we're going to explain whatwe mean by orientation, get into
things like functional field ofview and perception.
And while the science isfascinating, it's also a window
into how we navigate and adaptkeyword there in everyday life.
From the moment we open our eyes, our brains engage in a complex
automatic process calledsense-making.

(02:34):
It's how we extract meaningfrom the flood of sensory input
that surrounds us.
So our five senses sight,hearing, touch, smell, taste
those are our primary tools forgathering environmental data.
There's no sixth sense, right.
Instead, it's our cognitivepower lies in how we organize,

(02:56):
interpret and act on the sensoryinformation.
Visual perception plays acentral role here.
We rely on vision, guided byour actions, using what we see
to make decisions based onexperience and expectation,
enabling us to make rapiddecisions.
So this is where the concept offunctional field of view comes
in, the portion of our visualfield where we can effectively
process information withoutmoving our eyes.
So the central vision aboutfine details.
But functional field of viewisn't static, it's dynamic,

(03:20):
right.
It's shaped by our orientationin space, and orientation aligns
our senses with our intendedaction, guiding us toward
meaningful targets whilefiltering out distractions.
I'm going to get into thatprocess and what that means and
how that works and how it can gowrong sometimes, but it's a
life saving mechanism in highstakes scenarios where rapid

(03:41):
assessment is critical.
So today we'll dissect thatstuff that I brought up.
We'll dissect how functionalfield of view and orientation
interact, transforming sort ofthis raw sensory input into
actionable intelligence, andwe'll explore how these concepts
help us detect anomalies,assess potential threats and

(04:02):
adapt to ever-changingenvironments.
Homilies assess potentialthreats and adapt to
ever-changing environments.
And it's that adaptation thatis going to sort of lead us to
the larger sociologicaldiscussion we'll have about how
these things shape our world andour mind.
And then it's kind of like acontinuous feedback loop, right?
So that's sort of the overview,greg, why don't you I'll go to

(04:22):
you to kind of start thatprocess in a sense and I sharpen
our focus here, since we'restarting and talking about
orientation and vision andeverything and what this means
and how powerful it is.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, and if you're following at home, break out the
yellow pad as long as you'renot like driving on the freeway,
unless you're a passenger andwrite down.
What Brian said is the outlineand I'll go in order as much as
I can.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Well, I would say, just listen to that, but write
down what you're going to say,because we're going to kind of
go down into these.
I don't know if my stuff isgoing to be as memorable as
yours.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
So my overarching theme, when Brian and I
discussed the topic, I'll openand close with it and that's
that your senses orient yourbody so that you can collect
vital information quicker inorder to survive challenging
encounters.
Now, when I say survivechallenging encounters, your
brain is constantly switched onto look for danger warning Will

(05:14):
Robinson.
So this is just anotherfunction of your daily life,
because that's how your lifeworks.
You think that all the stuffthat you're doing is important
in your life.
Well, your brain is going, yeah.
Yeah, that's second or tertiary.
My survival is the first thing.
So that first point that Brianbrought up is very, very
essential Understanding thatyour brain favors organization.

(05:37):
What does that mean?
That means that organizedthoughts and organized artifacts
and evidence provide a muchsimpler encoding of an array of
sensory input.
So your brain is overwhelmeddaily with the amount of sensory
input.
So it has to have a gatingmechanism, it has to have a way
to take all of that informationand prioritize it and leave some

(06:00):
behind.
A lot is left behind, as amatter of fact.
Leave some behind.
A lot is left behind, as amatter of fact.
So sensemaking gives meaning toour experiences, specifically
our collective experiences, sowe can share that reality in
space-time.
So that means sensemaking helpsus organize information from
the vast array of environmentsthat we operate in every day so
that we can create meaning andunderstanding and our meaning

(06:23):
and understanding.
The second part of that can bebe shared with kids, can be
shared with, okay.
Loss can be shared, you know,uh, with the next generation
okay, so a lot to just unpackreal quick there.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Can you give me sort of like an example of what you
mean, because you're sayingobviously gives meaning to our
individual experiences, but thenthis collective, shared
experience that we can go backso.
So can you kind of break downwhat you mean by that, meaning
like, how can my experienceshape your or or us as a group?
You get what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
No, that's brilliant and it's a great question.
And let's white belt this.
Every culture on the face ofthe planet has a form of dance.
Most dances are associated withwonderful, happy things the
birth of a child, a marriage.
There's other slow dirges thatare associated with the
movements where somebody hasdied and we're paying penance or

(07:15):
giving them the honor ofremembrance and stuff.
Those are different than aperson that's having a medical
issue and is flopping around onthe ground, Although the late
60s, early 70s, you might nothave known the difference.
But that idea, for examplesleeping, is different than
death.
So what happens?
Is these subtle nuances betweenthese flavors at Baskin-Robbins

(07:40):
, when it's all just ice cream,help us determine what likely is
going to happen next, whatenvironment we're involved in.
Is this a survival environment?
Are these people in a cafeteriajust eating?
So what happens is, throughveritable panacea of sensory
input, our brain has tocategorize, organize, to make

(08:01):
sense of the environment,sense-making, and sense-making
is the essential first step anddecisions.
So if you don't have one, like,for example, if your brain is
unorganized or disorganized twovery different concepts in
psychology you're going to havea harder time sharing your
reality, sharing yourexperiences, and I'm going to
listen to you and go the fuck'swrong with this person rather

(08:23):
than understanding that perhapsyour perception is skewed in
some manner.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (08:44):
that we're, you know, processing everything or or
thinking about everything, butreally it's like we're taking
these cues from our environmentand, based on those past
experiences, people were taughtwhere we're sort of making these
decisions, and this is, this ishappening constantly in the
background, like this is how wenavigate things.
So now what you're so you'resaying is like the shared
experiences.
Now we create those to go likeas a shortcut, like, oh, okay, I
know what what the tribe meansby that.

(09:06):
I don't have to spend timethinking so the dance is a good
dance.
Something great must'vehappened as I'm approaching the
village, you know so.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
So it's like a it's a faster, exactly Brian, and that
lines up my uh emotions, uhmemory.
I might need to to go back tohey, who was that girl?
Is that the daughter of Johnny,or is that Billy's sister?
All of those things startflooding in, and that's where
organization comes in.
If I don't have tabs on my filefolder for the big items that

(09:36):
are going to be in there, thenwhat I'm doing is I'm searching
for meaning and understanding inevery nuanced thing that comes
across my mouth.
You can't survive that.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
You can't do that, it's too many mental killers.
Let's talk about that, thatorganization, right, and, and
how that works.
So I've, I've heard, you know,I I've kind of given one when
someone's asked me a question,one analogy, and you, you tell
me what you think of this islike like cause we use the term

(10:05):
file folders.
When I get my computer there'sa whole bunch of programs and
apps and things on there already, just when it's clean, right
out of the box, right, andbefore I ever interacted with it
, that help it, run it, help itdoes whatever the F it does in
this magical machine that theygive me that I just slowly turn
my life over to more and moreevery single day, right, every
day right day, right.

(10:28):
But then there's the folders Icreate to organize information,
right.
And then there's, within thosefolders, there might be some
more folders or images ordocuments or whatever.
And now that's how I organizestuff, because that's what, the
way I use it.
And then sometimes it can helpme and say, do you want to
categorize it this way, likemeaning, do you want it all in
alphabetical order in yourdesktop, or do you want to buy
in order of the last time youopen the file?
So?
So meaning, there's ones that Icontrol, right, that I chose to

(10:52):
categorize in a certain manner.
But then there's thisunderlying sort of operating
system that I don't mess withand in fact, when I get to some
of those folders, you ever seesome like it's like folders,
which is like letters andnumbers and stuff like that.
And I have no idea what itmeans.
And I'm not going anywhere nearthat because I assume, if I
change one letter like it'sgoing to, just my computer is
going to explode or something,Right, but but meaning?

(11:13):
There's the ones we createright With these for sense, but
then there's ones that arealready there and I have no
control over those, Greg.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
And I have no idea what the hell they do.
Now, I know they make my, my,my computer work, but I can't
explain it.
I certainly can't tell you howthat works, right, but you don't
need to.
What you need to understand isthat there's an overarching
cable that's constantlystreaming and constantly on in
the back of your brain and and Ispeak in metaphors, everybody
that knows me I'm streeting itup for you, so you don't have to
go and spend the next decadestudying this stuff.
It's this simple there's a birdand I've seen a bird on the wire

(11:47):
and I've seen the movie theBird on the Wire and I know that
.
There's Mark the Bird Fidrichthat used to pitch for the
Detroit Tigers, and there'sCharlie Bird Parker.
That's an amazing musician.
They're all birds, brian, butthey're very different birds.
So we could go down that lineforever.
So that's meaning.
Okay, the meaning behind theword bird is in the file, so the

(12:10):
general file folder might saybird at the top.
But then I've got all these uh,a napkin I wrote on a post-it
note a photo that's how I.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
You know that.
No, that's how I.
I named the different birdsthat that come around our house.
There's one there's a hawk thatkeeps coming by and I'm like
that's and you know I'll be gaythat's ken.
I named the different birdsthat come around our house.
There's one there's a hawk thatkeeps coming by and I'm like
that's Ken Harrelson.
People are like what?
Who's Ken?
He was the announcer for theWhite Sox.
He was hawk.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
And like he was a baseball.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
And then the crows that keep coming back, right I
go.
Well, that's the couple, that'sRussell and Cheryl over there.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
What you did is you put meaning to this sensory
input as a manner of encoding.
So you have two sides of that.
You have meaning andunderstanding, and everybody
that listens to me understandsthat words are important to me.
So meaning is what does thismean?
Understanding means what can Ido with it?
How can I pay that informationforward?

(13:00):
And that's especiallymeaningful and necessary when
we're faced with an ambiguoussituation one side of the coin,
or a complex situation, theother side of the coin, or the
big coin, which is the challengethat might foment a potential
survival situation.
You got to remember.
An ambiguous environment is justone that I'm not immediately
understanding, that I'm going tobaste myself into.

(13:22):
I'm going to be in the oven doyou get what I'm saying?
Using some of the juices, andthen after a while, oh shit,
that's what this is.
Okay.
Then understanding isunderstanding.
I'm in the middle of something.
That's where situationalawareness comes from.
What is going on around me?
How are they interconnected, ifthey are interconnected, and
what can I use out of that sight, sound, feel, smell, to pay it
forward, to give me an idea ofhow to decide what to do next?

(13:46):
And people look, we skip overthis shit all the time.
This is why my fundamentalargument oh my God, it's
Christmas, stop.
But my fundamental argumentwith, when we deal with virtual
reality and we've been in thefield as long or longer than
anybody that I know especiallyif we date back to our military
stuff that we were doing forFight JCTD and the underpinnings

(14:08):
that surround that, brian whenwe talk about having a
270-degree screen or a360-degree screen or lifelike or
realistic or all that otherstuff, look, there's limits to
that.
Because the way, if you come upwith something that's whiz-bang
and wonderful, I'll play it allday long, but that doesn't mean
I'm learning from it and thatdoesn't mean that the encoding

(14:29):
is occurring and that I'mgetting meaning and
understanding out of it.
And this is the centralargument.
A peer reviewed is going to sayoh yeah, it was fun and I really
enjoyed it, and when I came outof there I was like man, it's
like nothing I've ever done.
Well, none of that means that Igot meaning or understanding
out of that.
Do you see, learning is a verydifferent thing, and so if we're
talking about brain-favoringorganization and our overarching

(14:52):
message today is how you orienttowards things as a survival
mechanism or a sense-makingmechanism, then what we're
saying, too, is we're purists.
We go back to the sciencerather than searching out the
next thing.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Is that a fair way of saying that?
About poking at somebody?
Well, and that's just peoplefocusing on the wrong things and
measuring the wrong things aswell, right, they mean well
right, yeah, and they never makeit up to that Like this is why
no one understands that they orsomeone wants to argue that,
like we always say, trainingchanges behavior.

(15:28):
I'm looking for an outcome hereand I'm looking for a
behavioral change that leads anorganizational outcome.
And so you know, you're lookingat very different very
different than learning.
Like it's like oh, do you?
You're gonna do an get a get asurvey for everyone from from
after.
Like you know, when they're onthe last day of the course, I'm
like no, I already know whatthey're gonna say.
I don't fucking care.
Like well, well, isn't thatimportant?
Nope, what's important is whenI get the call or the email or

(15:51):
the text or the reach out a weeklater and go dude, you're not
gonna believe this.
I saw exactly that and allowedme to intervene sooner.
I didn't do this like that is achange of behavior that changed
the outcome of a very dynamicsituation.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
That shows that that training changed the
organization and the change waspositive.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
They were more mindful.
Let's go back.
Let's get back to where we'reat here.
Let's talk about sensemaking.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
Sensemaking involves integrating new information into
your existing mental model sothat you can decision make.
Stop for a minute, write thatdown, folks.
Sense-making Integrating newincoming information into my
existing mental model of theworld, of this environment of
today, of this minute, so that Ican decision-make going forward

(16:37):
.
And decision-making is thenecessary precursor to action.
So everything that we do ispreparing us for that next thing
, or time would be meaninglessif we don't have a series of
events, a long timeline than theword time itself, and I like
using space-time, the threedimensions of space and one

(16:59):
dimension of time together inthat, because that gives us a
robust Hoberman Brian, thatgives us the 360 we're really
talking about.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
So and this is who we use like, kind of like the file
folders from mental models, andpeople have heard the term
schema before.
That's what we're talking about.
I just I like our definitionbetter because I think it makes
more sense and it's easier tounderstand.
No, it just feels better.
Yeah, I agree, Right, Well,it's just easier to understand.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
There's a scientific argument that's going to say
though the brain is notorganized in file folders.
That's not true.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We get that argument, but forme to understand this vast,
complex series of memories andhow I can only add a file folder
in a photograph makes a lot ofsense to me.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, the computer analogy is okay.
There's stuff in there that Idon't touch.
There's stuff in there that Ido touch.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
And're all working together and I'm not fully
understand it, but at some of itI do understand.
Yeah, and it's getting warmright now.
You know what I mean.
But but my, my microwave opensand my coffee's hot.
I don't exactly understand it.
I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
It's not radiation, folks.
It speeds up the watermolecules.
But anyway it's, it's, that'suh that's an experiment, well,
kind of.
But so here's the thing.
So you just said thatsensemaking involves integrating
new information into yourexisting mental model of the
world that you can decision make.
So I don't want to getsomething, because I see this

(18:26):
come up now and finally, morepeople realizing there's some
stuff on some social media thatthese different companies or
different organizations put outand they're, you know, saying
like, hey, cognitive training,if you, if you're, you know,
trying to, and their, theirexample is, if you're doing, you
know, chess exercises inbetween, something that's not
gonna fucking do anything.
It's the same thing.
It's like the lumosity app andall these brain game things like

(18:48):
this.
Is just that doesn't that getsyou better at the game that
you're playing.
That doesn't get you better atdecision making or critical
thinking or any of those skillsets.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
And this is what we've been telling you for years
, while it's in motion, with aperson bumping, but that that
doesn't transfer over toanything else other than that
specific thing, and here's whyI'm bringing that up no more
than reading a book, Brian.
No more than reading a book orwatching a television show.
You're exactly right.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
So you're saying sense making involves
integrating new information toyour existing mental model of
the world, and we already saidthat sense making gives us some
meaning to our experiences andwe can sort of and not just for
us, but shared so can you, canyou sort of modify or enhance
someone else's mental modelsthrough training?

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yes, of course, and you can share your experiences
through storytelling and throughtraining the proper way of
training so that that person'sbrain doesn't know they weren't
there.
That person's brain feels asthough they were there, at
ground zero when you had thatexperience.
And it's not exactly the same,but it's close enough.

(19:56):
Greg Williams patented thetheory of close enough dozens of
years ago folks to show youthat your brain doesn't care.
I answered Willis, Brian Willis, I respect you and admire you
if you're listening to this,Brian.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Willis had a great post.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
okay, and I added to the post a little bit of
friction, a little bit ofimagination.
That's called masturbation.
I had to use self-gratificationor something because LinkedIn
had thrown me off for six months.
But the idea is, your brain isso powerful that it gets where
you're trying to go and it'sactually trying to help you get
there, Brian.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
So when you're listening in Well, no one else
is helping me get there.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah, exactly, because you shouldn't ask those
questions in a McDonald'sdrive-thru.
But the idea is, if you wereand you know you do if you're
sitting there in a classroom andthen you're going out to the
range and then you're going tothe interactive portion of
defensive tactics, all of thatstuff is magic.
But what has to happen is yourbrain has to assign meaning to

(20:50):
it.
And the meaning has to be Iunderstand this so that I can
recognize similar situation inthe future and apply this answer
.
So the primary sense-makingtools and you alluded to it at
the very beginning are our sight, our hearing, our touch, our
smell, our taste.
There is no sixth sense.
So if we're trying to cultivatea sixth sense, look yet.

(21:12):
Of course you have instinct,okay, but your instinct are
something that must becultivated over time, okay.
So, so it takes time, it takestime.
So how do you do that Withtraining?
Education is wonderful but, I,can't read a book to learn how
to ride a bike.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
At some point I have to get out and get on the gosh
damn bike.
Especially a lot of people thatlisten to our podcast or folks
that are involved with trainingor anything.
They understand that part.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
But the thing you said hang on.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
You said you said cognitively close enough,
because I brought up that caseof that other kind of social
media posts and the way peopletalk about the different chess
games because we've come acrossother folks that that have done
that as well.
But but it's not that bad, it'sjust that your point is wrong
well, it'll help you get betterat that game, not necessarily at
the thing that you're learning.

(22:06):
That's not the end state.
The end state is the real worldapplication and even what these
people said is like well, ithas to be.
Your training has to be closeto what you're likely to
encounter and expect to see, andyou want it as close as
possible for the best type ofyou know the best type of kind
of retention of that skill set.

(22:26):
But I think people get it wrongwhen they say that, because
then it was like you know, whenyou do the military stuff, it's
like all right, we're going tohave the fake IDs and the people
that speak Arabic and peoplecoming out with legs missing and
squirting blood and this, thatthe other thing.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
It's like hang on Right.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Some of that.
Some of that may be integral orimportant, but will we, could
you?
I want just you to take asecond to define a little bit
more, because we use the termcognitively close enough.
So it's not about fooling myprefrontal cortex and my
conscious brain, it's aboutfooling or engaging that
unconscious part of it.
So it doesn't have to be right,it's like you just said a
little bit of fiction, a littlebit of friction and my brain

(23:08):
goes oh, it's procreation time,it doesn't care.
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Exactly right.
So, look, you know that I goantler hiking every year and I
always take the kids' kids.
And when we go out there we'rein an area that has a high
mountain lion population.
So the first thing that youstart seeing is bleach bones,
which is a long-time exposure tothe environment.
Then, all of a sudden, you seebones that have meat and fur on
them.
Then you smell decompositionand immediately your senses are

(23:37):
heightened because your brain istelling you danger.
Warning Will Robinson, we havean apex predator around here.
You are now in the home of thepredator.
Warning Will Robinson, we havean apex predator around here.
You are now in the home of thepredator.
You don't have to put a lot ofthinking to that.
But what we do then is walkbackwards and go through all of
those artifacts and evidencethat led us up to that, and some
are visual, some are dactylBrian, we have to touch them,

(23:58):
okay.
Some are nose, we have to smellthem.
And what happens is we filledthis robust file folder full of
those experiences and say, okay,I smelled the same thing when I
was by i-70 searching forantlers, but that was due to a
motor vehicle hitting the deer,okay, or elk, or whatever animal

(24:18):
that right right posing.
But here I noticed that thepieces are separated and the
meat is missing, not because ofdecomposition, but because it's
likely been eaten.
And you're going where the fuckare you going in this detailed
story about a mountain lion?
Because that's how your brainlearns.
That's how I'm going to be ableto take that shared experience
and pass it forward to somebodythat's never been antler hiking
and never encountered a cougarbefore.

(24:38):
So survival means that not justI can get to the finish line,
but I can bring my tribe too,and that's why the shared
experiences are so essential,right?
So our senses allow us to gatherinformation from our
environment through all of thosedifferent senses.
Then the brain processes thatinformation so we can understand
but, more important, interpretthe environment around us.

(24:59):
We can make assumptions aboutthe future and about the rest of
the world around us.
If this is here, then itprobably is the same there.
If these are poisoned here,that's probably the same there.
If balled up fists here meanI'm going to be fighting,
they're likely.
So that's how we learn to usethem, and situational awareness

(25:19):
is a comparison from the now tothe likely future.
That's what we have to remember, and we don't use it that way.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Science is so important and you're, the
important thing to highlightabout every, basically, example
you just brought up is likethese are all very primitive.
These are primitive, hardwired,and I actually had someone
who's like.
I remember hearing this storyabout this person.
I wasn't personally involved inthe incident, but I knew right
away when I, when someone wastelling me where this woman was,

(25:48):
like you know God, it was thisweird smell and I don't know.
Just I thought it was like asmelling like burning human
flesh and I don't know it waslike smelling like burning human
flesh.
And the person was like, haveyou ever smelled that before?
And they're like no, and thiswoman was right and someone was
burning a body.
But those are the things whereit's like, if you've smelled
something like that before, yourbrain goes, this isn't fucking

(26:09):
right, there's something wrong.
That's such a primitive,hardwired response to know that
this person who was, who was inand who, who was, just
experienced something that onealmost no one experiences and
two, never done it before andkind of already knew what it was
.
Okay, where did you gain thatknowledge?
Meaning there's all thatunconscious stuff happening
under the surface, that thatthis is what we stick to and

(26:30):
this is what we think isimportant, because it's far more
important than anything else,because it's been around the
longest out of anything, and andand those premises even like
you're talking about.
Like bald fist, I do the, theterrorist does that, max does
that.
He's, you know, 17 months old.
He gets angry Right and whatdoes it immediately do?
Balls his fist.
That's a primitive thing.
No one taught him that Right,so it's, it's, it's so the the.

(26:54):
I just want to hit on thatCause, all of those things, even
like you're talking, you'rewalking me through the
decomposing body and this andlike I can smell it, I can see
it, I know what you're talkingabout.
Like man, I could teach anyonethat and they're going to get it
and write one there.
And that's what you mean bythose shared experiences, shared
file folders and so now go backto that bird analogy, brian.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
Now I don't have to say it's a mountain lion or a
cougar, it could be a pack ofcoyotes, it could be in Africa,
or it could be in Antarcticawith a polar bear.
The ideas are sound enough thatI can transmit the information
and you can put your personaltouch on it and go oh, I know
what he means, I know what shemeans, means, I know what she

(27:35):
means.
That's the beauty of thestorytelling.
That goes along with the livedexperience, or at least the
assumed experience that we get.
That's what training gives us.
Training can't always give usthe real thing, but training can
equate and if the training iscognitively close enough, we're
allowed to do the rest.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
We're allowed to finish.
Your brain will fill in thedetails.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Rarely will it be wrong.
Rarely will it be wrong.
When will it be wrong?
Shitty training where physicsdon't apply.
Where somebody says hey, youcan shoot the axe and split the
bullet and kill both of theterrorists at the same time, and
we've all seen that and I hadan example on somebody who's
going to write in.
But Cody did that yeah, he didit one time.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
And I went there so I don't yeah the one, but the one
marine marine sniper who putone 50 caliber office around
through a cinder block and theykilled two people with it.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
It's like okay and so now on the range, brian, they,
they train, just that shot andshut up.
So so that that's the stuff Iclassify as the
behavior-oriented vision, whereyeah, it occur, but it's not
Look.
So I got to tell you about thiscall because it happened at
Christmas.
I got a call down to HinsdaleCounty.
Hinsdale County is 90 minutes,under ideal circumstances in the

(28:45):
winter, to get to from whereI'm at and there's no other
coppers that can respond to it,and the female's burning up the
line, calling dispatch andGunnison I don't know if I
should go into much more detailthan that.
And the call is that hey, thereare deer, specifically mule
deer, flying through theneighbor's backyard.
Okay, that's great.
So how much of you?
have Like Santa Claus reindeer,yeah, so there are mule deer

(29:08):
flying through my neighbor'syard and you need to send
somebody down here because it'sa wild Akashian thing.
And now it's drawn a crowd andthe people are wondering what's
going on.
So I get in the sled, I drivedown there the whole way.
I'm getting updates fromdispatch.
There's now 15 people at thescene and some kids have seen it
as well, and all this.
So I'm going.
Okay, prank gag, mass hysteria.
You get what I'm saying.

(29:28):
It's a long drive, so I'm goingthrough all this stuff.
I get there, it's hours ofdarkness, I'm standing where the
people are standing and youhear the clomp, clomp, clomp,
clomp, clomp associated with therunning deer.
And then all of a sudden, yousee the shadow no shit of a deer
flying against the buildings.
And then the next one lines upand goes too.
And I'm going.
Okay, this is the greatestanimation.

(29:49):
I've ever seen what it was is amule deer buck was walking
through a neighborhood backyardand got his antlers caught in
the gosh damn clothesline.
And there's clotheslines thatmake like an octagon, where they
go up like an umbrella upsidedown a fan, and so this one was
designed so when you're hangingthe clothes you can just move it
to the right, spin it around.
So when the mule deer buck wasgoing through the backyard, its

(30:09):
antlers got stuck and he wasrunning along the aluminum
siding of one house, landingback on the ground, running
along the wood on the otherhouse, and the light from the
Christmas tree lights made itlook animated.
So there was one after theother deer lining up running and
flying.
Okay so, brian, because I didn'thave a file folder for an
effing mule deer.
I'm from Detroit you get whatI'm trying to say and I'd never

(30:32):
had a clothesline in my entirelife.
That was a whole differentthing.
In Detroit, you hung yourclothes out.
somebody else borrowed it if youknow what I'm saying and didn't
return it.
And I had never seen this andthe mass hysteria was working on
me that visual and perceptualskills that I was bringing in
made no sense.
I had nothing to compare itagainst.
So finally, I had to talk to avery dear friend I'm not going

(30:54):
to name either.
That was at the time the DOW,which is now CPW, and I go what
the hell is going on and heexplained it to me and we got
the deer loose and walked overthere and it was the damnedest
thing in the world.
And if we had to recreate it,brian, only Hollywood or
Bollywood could probably do that.
Computers now AI, might be ableto do that right, but it was
the wildest damn thing.
So it had the whole communityin an uproar.

(31:15):
It had dispatch in an uproar.
Everybody needed to know whatwas going on and because it was
before the time of the gosh damnbest phone in the world, my
little phone for all the camerasand videos.
I wasn't able to take a photo tofully show everybody what I was
seeing.
But guess what?
Everybody there now has thatone wild ass explanation.
So nine years from now inIsrael, when a gosh damn goat is

(31:39):
caught up in a jump rope anddoing the same thing, one of
those people will go.
Well, you know what I saw inHinsdale County.
And now we've solved for X,brian.
That's the beauty of sharedinformation.
So the orientation is forcedorientation because I was called
to the scene.
The other type of orientationwas functional field of view
oriented that you brought upearlier and and yeah, a

(32:01):
miscommunication there too, if Imight segue right into that.
So when you're standing stilland you're looking straight
ahead, okay, and you're notmoving your eyes, your saccades
your brain.
We can go back through opticnerve and all that.
The op tempo of our coursedoesn't allow us to go into such
great detail, but understandthat there's basically four
levels or four stages.
Your head's not moving, you'relooking straight ahead.

(32:22):
Males have a six-degreefunctional field of view in this
situation.
Females about double that,about 11.
And what that means is I canprocess visual information in my
new visual field, this straightahead, not moving my eyes.
Then the second is slightmovement of my eyes to track a
target with other things thatare competing for my attention.

(32:43):
Then the third is I have toalso move my head, and now I'm
moving my head and my eyes.
And then the final one is Ihave to orient my body.
I literally have to orient mybody.
So our brain gives us light,motion and edges and then our
hard wiring gives us.
These are some environmentalcues you need to pay attention
to because they could call yourlife.
And between that, between thatrich tapestry of knowledge that

(33:07):
we're started off with as kidsand the stuff that we learned
from kids all the way to adult,like catching a ball, throwing a
ball at a target, those type ofthings what happens is we're
able to use behavior-orientedvision and now we have a mental
trigger, whether we acknowledgethem or not, that orients us
towards potential danger orpotential opportunity.
It's really simple when youthink of it in those terms,

(33:28):
right, Because you can see thatlining up.
But what happens is vision andif we start reading about it we
get overwhelmed.
And next time we're at theoptometrist he slaps us and says
stop because we're asking somany questions.
You don't need to get sodetailed to understand the
basics of human vision and howto process information visually.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, and so you hit up on those big things, is that
functional field of view, whichis very limited, very small, a
lot smaller than what peoplethink.
All right, you have strongcentral vision and then your
peripheral kind of can alert youto things, all right.
And then you then we tie thatin with orientation.
So I, so I you know, think ofif you know, picture you're,
you're walking past something,if you ever have it, where
something caught you know thecorner of your eye or something

(34:07):
like that, and you did like thedouble take and you turned, and
then, oh crap, it was powerfulenough for you to turn your
whole body and look at that.
That's what we mean by thatfunctional field of view and
orientation lining up.
So so what your brain did foryou unconsciously, is say, hey,
there's something going on overhere.
I don't know what it is, itcould fucking kill us.
So why don't you thrill?

(34:27):
us Right, or we can eat itwhatever if you're hungry, but
but, and then it will force yourit, unconsciously, it tells you
, turn and face that direction,and so you will actually turn
and face that direction so that,just like you said, all of our
senses are aligned to the front,which is what we're designed as
humans for forward motion andmoving forward, right, and to
pick up what that is.

(34:47):
Now it it might be nothing, and, and so think about those
things.
When it was nothing was, oh, itwas just, it's just a cat
making noise, it came over thefence, whatever.
When it's nothing, okay, thatwhat it is.
What that means is that allthat stuff is happening
underneath, right, and and soit's basing it on.
So things you've learned inyour life, your experience, what

(35:18):
you've heard, maybe that ghoststory, maybe that boogeyman
story, maybe this.
So whether it's real or notdoesn't matter, if it's fiction
or non-fiction, your brain goes.
This is important.
We know about something overhere.
Use all of your senses tofigure out what it is.
Okay, it's nothing.
What what that means is it wasat some point your brain
determined.
And we talk about the brain issort of a separate thing,
because it's really just likeyour conscious awareness versus
unconscious awareness of thosethings, right, but we, just we,
we talk about it in this sort oflike there's you and then

(35:38):
there's your brain and your eyestechnically evolved from your
brain, so they're technicallypart of it, but we, you know, we
, we parse those out.
But when you do that, right it,what it's saying, it was
something was going on over herethat is cognitively close
enough to some trigger or somethreat, arousal trigger or
hunger arousal trigger, whateverit is that we want to attend to

(36:01):
it, we want to attend it, towant to pay complete attention
to it.
So when we use those termscognitively close enough that's
another example of what we meanby that.
When we say, look, your braindidn't know it needed an extra
second, it needed to spend alittle extra time on this to
justify what it was and what itthinks it might be, to make sure
it wasn't something dangerous.
So it's cognitively closeenough, and so that's a very,

(36:23):
very powerful term that we usethat sometimes we don't because
we can't get into everything andthe meaning behind everything.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Even on a podcast, you can't, Brian.
So let's go deeper andcognitively close enough for the
purists that are also listeningto us.
What's shape dependability?
Well, shape dependability iswhen I've seen these shapes in
the past, they were always a car.
When I saw those shapes in thepast, they were always a ball.
When I saw those shapes in thepast, they were always a horse.
So your brain has a file folderthat does that autonomically
Form recognition.
Hey, that's Talyer, the shavedape.

(36:56):
I can tell by the amazing gunshe's carrying around and bald
head leaning forward with a12-inch forehead One step back
in that evolution scale.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
He's like one step.
We love you, Eric.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
We do love you Sides of an object.
I've never seen an elephant ina matchbook.
So many stories there.
Dominance, in other words, thethings that I see more than
other things.
Directionality, the waysomething is oriented towards or
away from me, is meaningfulVisual manipulation.
That's why we do the Holberman.
We can lift it up mentally anduse our visualization and
imagination to think of whatlikely happened.

(37:34):
That's what we mean bycognitive close enough we can go
into that.
The simple answer on that is weorient based on environmental
triggers, that's, light, motionand edges.
And why?
So that we can take in all thisinformation, the visual input
from our eyes and the rest ofour senses related to our
current situation, our pastexperiences, whether it's real
or learned in training, and thenrelate it to the other senses
to make sense out of it all.

(37:55):
So the whole goal is to planfor action.
So you said something I want tobring up and folks listen to
what I'm saying.
Brian brought up about the cat.
Okay, I just saw a cat on afence.
So I saw a cat on a fence and Isee the direction it jumps.
The next thing I should bethinking is what pushed that cat
out of that backyard, or what'sthat cat going for, or has that
cat ever been there before?

(38:16):
Because intentionality to me,the intent of seeing that cat,
is hugely important.
There's a burglary going onnext door and the cat was let
out accidentally and it's ahouse cat, not a, not a local
cat.
Do you see how the world isfull of stories?
But we're never going to seehim if we're walking around with
blinders and we don't take thatinformation processing step.
So the most curious people havesurvival advantage in an

(38:41):
environment and, brian, that'swhy we teach about curiosity,
that's why in?
class.
We're talking about howimportant that phase is because
those companion skills arewonderful.
But if you don't have thatorientation that gets visual
input the largest field and tohumans now, through evolution,
the most important field it'sessential to move our functional

(39:03):
field of view so our brain canaccount for our position, the
target's position, and thenrelate them to the nuances of
the environment.
If we can't do the knownunknown against the baseline,
then our brain will never beable to go to the right file
folder in time.
And there's your gosh damntraining range guy.
There's your training drivinginstructor.
I wish Pablo was on herebecause he would understand what

(39:24):
we're talking about?
Yeah, he does and little Joewould understand in terms of
defensive tactics, and ourshooter friends would understand
that.
But what happens, brian, is wealso don't spread load that
knowledge across all of thesefields.
We come upon that knowledge andall of a sudden, oh look at
this new thing.
It's been around forever.
We just didn't think about thecognitive process, our cognitive
gym, brian, has been around forover two decades now.

(39:46):
Do you get what I'm trying tosay?
And we feel that it's the rightway of taking your training,
because your visual field isn'tenough and your visual acuity
isn't enough.
I understand that you can seevery well, but if you can't
process what you're seeing intodigestible chunks for your brain
, then those perceptions areworthless.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah, and, and this is that's all.
That's a lot to sort of unpackand that's a lot happening.
No, no, no no.
I did a bunch in a row in mymind.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah, yeah, but that's how it works.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Right, and and and, and, and.
Actually, what you'redemonstrating here is the
ability to.
We've got to go back to the.
My computer analogy here is touse all of your file folders
more effectively.
Right so?
Because?
because you know, your brainbasically has unlimited memory.
However, our recall isn'talways that great, or?

(40:40):
Or if I don't link those thingstogether, if everything I learn
is if I always have separatefile folders on my desktop on my
computer and they neverinteract and I don't draw from
multiple ones, then they staysort of siloed in these areas
and I can't access them.
The idea is because how yourbrain can make neural
connections is it can connectall of those together.

(41:02):
Right, it can create a neuralnetwork in a sense that accesses
all of that, and then you canget better at priming it for
certain things, like you know.
You it's just like so I have aMac and it has an iCloud, so
what it does is the if I don'topen certain folders or files
for a while, it goes okay,you're not using this.

(41:24):
I'm going to upload this to theiCloud.
You don't need it on yourphysical computer because you're
not at.
You haven't accessed this thingin a year, so it's just wasted
space.
Now, if I go to it and I'msearching something I need, it's
got to download that real quickfor a second and then I can
open up that Word document orwhatever it was from a year ago,
right, it's kind of like thatin a sense.
But if I want that all on mydesktop, but just the most

(41:47):
relevant ones are going to beright there at the front,
they're going to be top of mind,they're going to be and that
might be contextually basedright, so so that that the
things I need top of mind foryou know, my, my family coming
into town for the holidays isdifferent than I need them for
you know, a surveillance mission.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Buy a frozen piece to cover your bruised eye when
your dad gives you a black eye.
Those types of things Exactly.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
No, no, he's, no, no, he's a lover, not a fighter
anymore, because he can't fight,he's too old.
So he's now transitioned tothat next phase of oh no, we're
all good and we had a great time.
And you know, I was a greatfather and I taught you to be a
great father.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
Don't you remember that Exactly?

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Oh, that's a different thing about memory.
So you see how that getsswitched around.
You're like me and my brotherlook at each other like we were
there.
That's not what happened at all, but anyway.
So I'm going back to that.
For recall and orientation bigpicture Now, I think we kind of
covered sort of that tacticalmicro level of functional field

(42:50):
of view and orientation,recognition and anticipation and
how those things work.
Now there's a lot of detailthat we can go into about all
those things, but let's kind ofgo from now sort of the, the,
the, so, what of all of this andthe larger picture of what how
significant orientation is andwhat we mean.
It just not now, like hey, Iwalk past something, I hear a

(43:11):
noise, I turn and orient.
What does that mean?
Then to that next stepsociologically, because we
covered it about sharing things.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
You know what I'm saying, so let's save a life,
first, to make sure people arestill attending to us.
So let's save a life right nowby saying this the phobia is
called the phobia because thatmeans pit in Latin, and it's a
little divot at the back of youreye that takes all of that
chunked information and throwsit back to our brain.
So, what so?
What so?
If you understand foveal visionand you understand that your

(43:39):
functional field of view isabout six degrees, then what you
understand is those things thatare right in front of you are
the most important to your brain, and then that goes to central
vision, then that goes toperipheral vision.
So, from the most important tothe least important.
So, what so?
Functional field of view helpsus do stuff like reading.
Well, reading wasn'tsurvival-based when we were kids

(44:01):
.
It had another purpose, so wehad to learn that over time.
So, what so?
If you read from left to right,like I read, then when you want
to look at your environment,you should look from right to
left, because that's contrary tothe way that your brain has
been tested and trained, andthat means it'll be nuanced, so
it'll be easier to find ananomaly.
What's that mean?

(44:21):
That when you're doing yourfive and 25s with your bino, go
from right to left.
Now if you're from Israel orRussia, you may have to change
that and do it the exactopposite.
But if you understand thatprinciple, that small of a
principle, that's cognitivelylinking this information about
the functional field of view tohow you can use that to survive
in an environment.
Brian, and you know what, ifthere's a sniper school that's

(44:43):
teaching that, good on you.
But if hunters aren't teachingthat to their kids, or if that's
not an NRA course somewhere,then they're failing to tie some
of those file folders together,like you were talking about.
It's there for a reason.
So the historical reason, thesurvival reason, is the most
important.
So understanding yourfunctional field of view is
crucial for you to assesspotential anomalies within your

(45:05):
visual field and specifically insituations where you need to
quickly identify objects,whether that's survival or
opportunistic, or you'renavigating a complex and
extremist environment.
Potential danger the ice isthinner out there.
You get what I'm trying to sayand, brian, you know me.
I classify survival as onething and danger as an
all-encompassing thing, becausewe don't know what that danger

(45:26):
might be.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
It might be a long-term danger from smoking
which is different fromimmediate survival right.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah and talk rods and cones, but the
base level of it is, if youunderstand, that orientation
forces my functional field ofview to the unknown why?
Because it may have meaning andthat meaning may help me make a
decision in a very, veryimportant danger or survival
situation or opportunity.
And I always put opportunitylast.

(46:09):
I don't want to missopportunity.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Yeah, and it's searching for an answer and a
reasonable explanation foreverything, and if it doesn't
quite have one, it'll jump towhatever the closest thing is
that I've heard even if it'swrong.
Even if it's wrong, you'reexactly right it's a lot of a
lot of ufo sightings could beclassified as that there were

(46:31):
deer flying in the yard onchristmas.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
They were.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
They were lined up, brian and jumping off the stage
and flying it's what's what'shappening, you know, right right
now on the Eastern seaboard andespecially New Jersey and
everywhere, which is having somehilarious conversations with
some other folks about it, andit's it's.
Everyone wants to come up withwild stories.
It's usually the simplest thing.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
But if you don't tell me, then my mind will create
the reality.
If I don't have a story for it,then my mind will create.
As a matter of fact, if you goback to most stories, they'll
either have a like.
That's why some people go ohit's folklore.
Yeah, I get folklore, butfolklore came from somewhere.

(47:10):
It was to teach a message.
Aesop's fables were to teach ushow to do something better.
Look, have you ever watchedwhat's that gosh damn show?
Shelly liked it with Sheldonand the blonde girl and all his
scientist buddies.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
The Big Bang Theory.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
Big Bang Theory yeah, okay.
So I love Sheldon on Big Bangwhen I get a chance to watch it
and I love the reruns becauseit's very well written.
What and I love the rerunsbecause it's very well written
what happens is Sheldon doesn'tunderstand the sociological
implications of being Sheldon,so it's always creating an
uncomfortable situation that hegoes into and he says things

(47:44):
that are on his mind when heshouldn't and he does things
that seem off-putting to othersand stuff.
If you want to understand whatyour brain is like without the
context and relevance offunctional field of view and
orientation of sense-making anddecision-making, watch that show
.
Just one episode and you get itright away.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
just follow shelvin I , I see you're, you're, you're,
you're really, really connectingwith this character, sheldon
greg.
Is there any reasons?
I?
Connect with a lot of thingsthat don't have sex very often
and are deep thinkers thatnobody understands you bastard,
but you get it.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
I totally understand.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
I associate with that .

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Look, there are times that I come into a room and I
know I'm the one that'soff-putting, only because what
I'm trying to do is my form ofmaking sense of an environment,
isn't yours, and so I'm tryingto open your aperture by using
an alternative methodology thatyour brain will understand.
I'm much more in tune with theprimitive brain than I am with

(48:47):
whatever current shit is on themarket.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
And you specifically are doing that sometimes
intentionally.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Deliberately Most of the time.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Most of the time.
Look at this shirt.
You don't think this isdeliberate.
Come on, so you chose thatYou're telling me.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
You chose the one, it chose me right.
That's so funny.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
What was the Tommy boy where?
He's like what's that smell?
He's like, oh, that's pine treeair freshener.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
He's like good.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
First step is identifying.
The second step is getting ridof it.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Doing something about it.
No look look, look, I know I'man acquired taste, but the idea
is that when people think thatmaking an environment busy makes
it more challenging to thebrain, all you're doing is
confusing your survival brain.
You don't need all of thoseexternal things unless you

(49:38):
assign meaning to them.
So, having the smell ofdecomposition without giving the
halt signal, taking a knee andexplaining what that means to
the brain and then revisitingthat in the future time and time
again during a situation thatyou're trying to prompt somebody
for danger.
If you don't do it that way,brian, it's meaningless and it's
.
It's a bunch of fidelity thatyour brain doesn't need and so

(50:00):
it's great and you'll clap andyou'll get the award for.
Oh my god, look at these.
You know what do they call it?
The visual effects and the cgi.
Okay, but your brain callsbullshit.
And and that's why most moviesare about an hour and a half too
long now Because you know thepeople go hey, I fucking got it,
and now it's a protracted fistfight.
How come Aquaman can speak tothe fishes, but he still resorts
to punching somebody?

(50:20):
You know those type of things,and that's what I want to do
with art, brian.
We've known each other for along time.
And what were three out of thefive things that I said you'd
never heard before?
You conducted your own researchand guess what?
It changed the trajectory ofyour life.
That's what we're trying to dowith the podcast, that's what

(50:42):
we're doing with our in-persontraining and with the book is
we're trying to say can you?
back off the gas pedal for aminute and try to make more
sense of your environment.
Look at how rich and fulfillingyour life could be.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Well, that was my first was like, okay, this guy's
hilarious and he's completelyfull of shit and no, I know some
of that.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Well, yeah, yeah, of course, of course it was on my
Christmas card.
I can show you.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
Merry Christmas.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
I still know you're full of shit, and one of these
days I'll be able to prove it.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
But but no, no, no.
And because what my that youdid to just to speak to that
point?
It was that I said these areheavy, complex subjects you're
bringing up and there's no way,you know, especially at that, at
that time, my age, or with thatexperience that I had, it was
like there's no way.

(51:32):
It's this simple.
Like you, I get where you'regoing, but no, dude, you can't
just say that, you can't justsay that, you can't just say
this, like you can't just putthose things together.
Those are, you know, very, veryheavy, complex subjects that
we're kind of still, especiallyanything with neuroscience and
brain, and before you even getto, it, and it's all still new.

(51:54):
You know before you even get toand it's all still new.
You know it's right.
Right, we're still.
We don't like we don't fullyunderstand how the brain works.
We, we kind of we're, I don'tknow how far in we are with it.
It's like the same thing, likeyou know the universe.
It's like, well, here's somethings we know.
The farther out we go, we'reunsure.
We don't know as people.
Well, I thought you said theuniverse started four billion.
Now you're saying it's 15.
It's like, yeah, because welearn new things.

(52:15):
I don't fucking know, dude.
Like what we knew in 1960 is,yeah, but that was my thing.
But what you're really tryingto do is tie this back to those
primitive signals.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Start there One primitive pure signal that you
can use right now.
That you can use.
Yes, Brian, when you walked outof that class you did not
believe anything.
I was saying.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
No.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Until you walked out into your environment and you
tried a couple of the things andyou said they work.
Holy crap, they work.
They're oversimplified, butthey work.
Why do we need to make theseconcepts?
so I don't have to understandthe internal combustion engine
to drive to the 7-Eleven, Idon't you know.
And that's that's my argument.
My argument is when you lookout the window, your brain is
processing what's out thatwindow.
Just because you're sitting ona bunch of books and you got a

(52:58):
PhD degree in your fuckingpocket doesn't make you any
smarter than me.
That's the problem withthinking nowadays is you can
convey those ideas and messagesto me so I can be as safe as you
are in that environment withoutme having to go and get a
college degree.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Well, you, I don't know where this quote came from,
but it's something I heardwhere it was.
You know, the only way to fullyunderstand a theory is to
either derive the conclusionyourself or prove it wrong.
Right, you, you sort of have tolike.
I thought it was.
That was just a general thing.
I was like man that kind ofmakes sense you know what I'm
saying?
Right, right it's.
It was a pretty profound thingthat I'd heard, and and so we're

(53:37):
we're getting into.
So we did, you, you did sort ofjust explain the internal
combustion engine when it comesto orientation, right.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
So we sort of explained that Right, because
now was the time to take moretime to understand that your
senses grant your body so youcan collect vital information.
No, no.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
And that was the purpose of this.
That was the purpose of this.
So the next part that I kind ofwant to get into is okay, got
it.
We've explained the internalcombustion engine, we've
explained orientation.
So now I'm in the car, driving,but I'm not the only one on the
road right, and everyone elseis too.
So what does this meansociologically?

(54:25):
Because what we, we don'talways choose, or we, we think
we choose what we attend to, butoftentimes it's not like I
always tell you know everyone,yes, humans have free will and
we have agency, but it's a lotless free will than we think
right.
Meaning that the folders, theoperating system in that
computer have way more controlthan I do.
And what I'm setting it upright, it just does, it runs it.

(54:46):
I think I'm manipulating it andI'm getting better at it and
we're creating tools to maybehelp.
Like, my biggest thing is thenew updates and different
technology.
Everyone wants to come out withsome whiz bang shit before we
even understand what we alreadyhave.
So it's like the best ones forme are the ones that allow me to
use what I have better.
So now, like the searchfunction on my computer is way
better now, like I can just typein some words and I'll bring it

(55:08):
up.
Look at if you have an iPhone,like with photos.
Now you can search a word likeyou know, I want dogs and it
analyzes photos and give youevery photo with a dog and
you're like that's fuckingpowerful.
That's way better than tryingto think of where I was and I
took a photo of that dog andwhat time it was and what date
it was, and I have thousands ofphotos in there.
So that's the idea and that'salmost like what we're talking

(55:30):
about with, with, with how weapproach that training because,
yeah, I can use that better.
So so how does these differentsocietal factors sort of play
into that orientation, meaning,meaning, and maybe what are some
of the outcomes?
So like, if we're all talkingabout something, we don't always
know how important it is, right, it feels like whatever's

(55:53):
coming out out, whatever'shappening right now, is the most
important thing to us, becauseeverything is, we're egocentric
for survival of us in thespecies and we think everything
is the worst thing ever.
But with time you go on to goremember that thing everyone was
arguing about like two yearsago turns out like they're not
really that fucking importantanymore, exactly.
So so we but we can't weigh thatout in the moment.

(56:13):
So it and part of this part ofthis discussion is how
communication has changed veryrapidly in a short amount of
time, so let's say, over thelast 10 years, really rapidly.
And then then covid kind ofaccelerated that in a sense,
because then people startedadopting some newer technologies
at a larger scale.
But but everyone's fear is oror people talk about, especially

(56:39):
like parents with kids it'slike all this shit's rotting
their brain and it's this andand now we're doing because
sometimes it is and it can bebad, and they're saying, well,
it's rewiring us, it's changingus, and it's like, well, okay, I
either.
There's meaning you can findevidence to support that claim,
sure, but it's, it's, it's isthat to me.

(56:59):
I'm going like is this changingthe trajectory or is this a blip
on the radar?
it's a change in moment or is itbecause most, most things
become a blip on the radar, likeI, which I love when people go
back and bring up quotes fromthe past and they completely
misunderstand them and you knowit's like people are quoting.
You're writing some big thingabout you know socrates, and he

(57:23):
said this and I'm like, and I'mlike.
My response is socrates woulddisagree with everything you
just said.
Like, what do you mean?
It's like well, one thatmotherfucker didn't believe in
writing things down.
He thought that was lazy andyou should be able to memorize
everything.
So they'd be against yoursocial media posts because you
shouldn't be writing it down.
You should be able to explain.
It's like this, is it's?

Speaker 2 (57:44):
now you're taking.
So let me give you a couple offor instances.
Yeah, I mean, let's do a coupleof for instances along at space
time.
So the smartest human I knowknow is Shelly and I don't mean
just the smartest female that Iknow, I mean human, the one that
I most admire.
She edits a lot of my stuffmentally and physically and
verbally and, you know, correctsme when I need correcting.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
I was going to say physically, physically Abusive
Because she beats my ass and Ineed it though.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
Yeah, because she beats my ass and I need it
though.
But she works in an environmentwhere she sees daily that kids
of a certain age come in andhave no idea how to sign their
own names because they've neverbeen forced to do it, or
understand how cursive writingworks, because it's not been
challenged or taught andtherefore it's a lost art form.

(58:33):
Now, brian, I don't often eatout, but when we're on the road
we kind of have to.
We stop at a healthy place andgrab some stuff for the hotel
and then go to a healthyrestaurant.
And you know I always carry thepink phone everywhere I go, and
the function I think I use most, other than photography, is my
calculator, because I want toleave a nice tip and I don't
want to be an idiot, becauseteacher taught me a long time

(58:54):
ago move the decimal point dothis and that.
I'm from Detroit man.
I don't know how to fucking doany of that.
So what I do is I enter thenumber in and multiply it by the
thing, and it tells me what todo.
I noticed on Monday it was thatI went and got some chow for
Shell and I cause it was a verybusy day, First time in town in
a long time and I said, oh, Ididn't bring my calculator.
And the woman said, no problem,Look at the bottom of your

(59:19):
receipt.
Brian had had all the differentcalculations necessary and all I
had to do was tap the one thatI wanted.
Well, that's just like thecurse of writing.
The more I have to press abutton like what's your own
phone number, what's your dad'sphone number?
Well, I don't do that because Ipress dad on my phone.
What happens is when wesupplant, when we exchange, when
we stop using those old methodsto make fire okay, to splint a

(59:43):
leg what happens is the morethat we use that app and the
more we look at the phone.
I can give you one that costsus money.
How many times you've been inthe light?
The light changes.
You look left and right to makesure nobody's running the light
and you move forward andthere's cars still sitting still
, yeah, and you look at them andthey're all playing Angry Birds
or looking down at their phone.
Yeah, that costs tens ofmillions, if not billions of
dollars.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
That's billions yeah, so what happens?

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
is.
Those are impacts that we'refeeling now and somebody would
point at those and go that'schanged how humans think.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Yeah.
So here's my argument againstthat.
All right, because, especiallybecause writing is a great one,
but writing has not been aroundvery long and there's still
plenty of countries in the worldwhere only 25 to 50 percent of
the people in that country caneven write or read.

(01:00:33):
Exactly I get.
What you're saying is followinga logical that that makes sense
.
Okay, we're doing this less, sois that going to go away?
But but is it did?
Did that come up and then nowgoing away?
Because it's because societallywe've evolved past the
necessity for it, right?
You know what I'm saying andthat's what everyone gets into

(01:00:53):
when they try to.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
But my argument with you and it's a continuous
argument that we both have is wedon't know, because it's going
to take.
For the least of us it's goingto take 1,000 or 10,000 years to
figure out, and for those realbig muscle movements, brian,
that have been around with ussince birth, it may take longer
than our planet has left todecide.

(01:01:14):
So I think both of us wouldagree don't jump at a conclusion
that's based on what you'reseeing today, because it may not
be so tomorrow, it may not beso next year, right, but I would
say that skill, craft is stillimportant, because those things
that we throw out, like reading,cursive writing, might still be
essential.
We might not see how essentialtheir nature is right now, brian

(01:01:37):
, but at some time in the nearfuture we may have to use that.
And now we're screwed.
You can't just tap a button.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Yeah, and this is what I kind of want to get into
with how orientation affects us,right, because we now sort of
at scale, due to the speed ofcommunication and how it's
shared quickly.
Scale due to the speed ofcommunication and how it's
shared quickly, it it's sort ofthis, this mass orientation
together towards something.
Right, it happens sort of atscale, larger.

(01:02:07):
So does that mean those, thosechanges occur faster because
they're they're happening atscale, or is it just that it
captures our attention?
But because this is the otherthing is with attention and
orientation, is that it's sortof it.
It's weird, right, because Isee two sort of opposing things
happening, right.

(01:02:27):
So, so everyone talks about oh,people have a short attention
span now and everything is these10 second clips and you got to
hook people in right away andand it's the, and you know,
these tiktok videos are only afew seconds long.
Let's do micro learning andlet's do this and let's.
It's like okay, but but alsoalso some of the most popular
things in the world today arepodcasts that are three fucking

(01:02:49):
hours long, or or people, a newseries comes out on netflix and
they drop the whole series andpeople binge watch the entire
fucking series from start tofinish over the course of a
weekend.
That's a lot of time, that's alot of attention and that's not
fleeting.
That's not a 10 second, that'snot coming at you at 10 30
second clip.
So it's weird.
It's like we're seeing both andso it's almost like there's,

(01:03:13):
when these things occur, right,these new forms.
Everything's fast and it's gotto be quick and hook people, and
it's like there's a deeper sortof drive towards this longer
form content and a deeperknowledge and understanding and
people now going.
I mean, look at even the latestpresidential election.
A lot of people are creditingpart of the success of Trump and

(01:03:34):
his team was that him and andand JD Vance were going on these
podcasts and they were talkingfor hours at a time.
Because a five minute interviewwhat do you really learn in a
five minute interview, unlessyou're keeping it very specific
to one specific policy or onespecific stance, like you can
only get so much.
But over an hour, two hours,three hours well, now you get a

(01:03:55):
better understanding of thatperson and how they think and
the way they look at things, andso that was really, really.
That's something that's new,right, we haven't had the
ability to do that.
But if you go back you can goback to FDR's fireside chats
every week that he was puttingout for the nation and talking
and communicating constantly.
So it's like there's these twosort of diametrically opposed

(01:04:19):
forms that are out there.
So that's the part that'sinteresting to me.
When people make thesegrandiose claims or they say
this is where things are heading, we don't know what's going to
be important in five years.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
We just don't.
We don't know what's going tobe important in five months.
And I'll agree with that.
I will tell you this, brian youhave a very sound argument,
really thought provoking, andthat's what you intended to be.
Provocative, and I agree.
I would say this what is behindthe theory of academics, what's
behind the theory of highereducation?
It's to take us and expose usto things that aren't fun

(01:04:58):
calculus geometry because we mayhave to use those to understand
spatially our role in the restof the world.
So the idea is that this nuancedstuff that's coming at us and
it's fast and all you know, forexample, most people, you know,
let's say, most people are justreading the headlights rather
than reading the content.

(01:05:18):
Well then, they're going to endup searching for those things
that align with their views,which means that they're
absenting.
Look, some of the bestdecisions you'll make in your
life are after making a baddecision.
You learn from those things.
So the idea is well, that's whyit's out there, though right.
So if God and Buddha, vishnuand Allah knew enough to give us

(01:05:40):
lessons and that's what theBible is, that's what the Talmud
is, that's exactly what theQuran is is a series of lessons
then maybe those are important,brian.
Maybe that form of long-formstorytelling is important, and
what I would say is let's notdrown that baby or throw that
baby out with the bath,depending on where you are in
the world at this time.
Let's make sure that we give itthe time that it takes.

(01:06:01):
And when somebody asks what thattime is, you know what I say
probably a million point, threeyears.
Am I saying that it's not goingto make an impact today or
tomorrow?
No, it's like Bitcoin Nobodystill understands that or
frangible tokens or any of theother fungible, rather tokens.
But the idea is that they'vealready made an impact
societally.
But is that going to be along-term, lingering impact, or

(01:06:23):
is it going to be that flash inthe pan?
You know the term flash in thepan?
Two things from gold mining andalso from putting gunpowder and
making light while you'retaking the old de Guere-type
photos.
That term is still around,while neither of those other
things is still around.
So we just don't know, brian.
We don't know, and that's whyyou and I rely on stuff like
science and physics that's muchmore rigid and has stood the

(01:06:46):
test of time.
When we fully understand thatmath has limits and we
understand that things likephysics change, and when they
change and everybodyacknowledges the change, I'll be
the scientist and step up, andI'll change my views too.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Yeah, and this is also.
You know, when it gets into,you know everyone's talking
about AI this and AI that, andmost people aren't even really
talking about AI when they saythat stuff or they're using it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
It's a theory of AI, right, right, right, what they
think AI is.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Well, you know, you look at these different tools
and things and like, you getthese large language models and
I highly suggest everyone usethem and get to understand that
chat GPT.
So then in those things,because you'll understand the
limitations.
And it's great for going onLinkedIn after you use that
stuff for a while while becauseyou can see how much just made

(01:07:40):
up ai material really is onthere and people posting shit
and it's like, oh, you just putthis fucking prompt into chat
gpt and you didn't even bothertaking out some of the keywords
that it always uses or theformatting.
You literally just copied andpasted but that's that.
That's.
That's a different one.
But you know, those tools arevery good at at they're very.

(01:08:01):
They have a deep, deep, deepknowledge in one area, whereas
humans, you know, we have theability to reason and we have,
like, maybe our level or ofunderstanding isn't deep in a
lot of areas, but we have alarge amount or a wide amount of

(01:08:24):
things that we can learn andunderstand and conceptualize.
So you're interested in sports,you have your job, you have
your hobbies, you have yourfamily, you have your, this,
each one, because the more ofthose things you have and do
like the less sort of expertiseyou could have in all of them.
Well, these different tools now, as most technologies are, it's

(01:08:46):
like this deep level ofexpertise in one thing.
So it can't reallyconceptualize going from that
one thing over into another arealike we can as humans, because
of the whole process we justtook an hour to explain, right,
because of everything that wejust talked about that allows us
to go into new, novelcircumstances and not go.

(01:09:09):
I don't know, I wasn'tprogrammed for this.
It's like, yeah, you were andyou can get better at your
program.

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
Your entire've been preparing for this, your entire
effing life.
You just didn't know you were.
You just didn't know thatthat's what your brain is
organizing things for is forthat unknown.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
And it's just a very.
It's based on primitive rulesand if you haven't been taught
or learned in some way whetherformally or informally been
trained in something, it's goingto fall back on some basic
basic processing and basic basicrules.
And so what we want people todo is understand the basic rules

(01:09:48):
right, understand what youcan't break, what you can't
change, how things are going tobe right.
So I have a deep foundationalknowledge of that and then
understand that you have all ofthese other experiences in life.
I don't care if you're eightyears old and that's the only
experience you have is at yourhouse and in your neighborhood
and go to school.
You have lessons that you candraw from.

(01:10:11):
You have experiences thatyou've had that you can then say
well, this is kind ofcognitively close enough to
something I've experiencedbefore.
What did I use back at thatexperience that can help me
through this one?
What can I do?
So if I'm not unpacking thosedifferent experiences, meaning
if I go back and do that, itmakes my, in a sense and not for

(01:10:35):
the scientists listening youdon't understand what I'm saying
, I'm oversimplifying it, butlike it sort of gets me better
at that orientation, it gets mebetter at the recognition.
It gets me better at the sensemaking, gets me better at
understanding and problemsolving and sort of like, helps
and increases my functionalfield of view in a way.
You can't physiologically getit bigger, but you can in a

(01:10:57):
sense of knowing what'simportant to to identify and
what's not.
Important is just as good, Imean, even if you just know all
right, I don't know everythinghere, but I know these things
don't matter.
Well, you've just reduced yourcognitive load, you've just
you've just made your ability tosense, making that environment

(01:11:18):
that much better, that muchfaster and that much easier.
So so it's it's whether it'slearning something new or
learning what you don't have todo and what you have to focus on
.
It's like that's why we talkabout focusing on the here's the
things that matter, right.
Here's the things that we don'tknow if it matters, but maybe
here's interesting, right, right.
Oh, this is past interesting.

(01:11:39):
This is now an anomaly.
Wait a minute.
There's multiple anomalies here.
Hang on, I'll stop All stop.
What?
What Time to orient?
Can I, can I grab some time anddistance here and figure out
the next step and determinelikely outcomes based on what I
know now?
And that all starts witheverything we discussed in here
today.

(01:11:59):
And then it doesn't just happenat that micro level, me
individually making my waythrough the world.
It's at that macro level, then,how we share that information
with others, how it getsprocessed, how we orient as
societally right, as a family,as a team.
What are we orienting towards?

(01:12:19):
Because that that you actuallycan.
You can put a mark on the walland you're never, you're never
going to be a hundred percentright, but you don't have to be.
You just have to be more rightthan you are wrong, right, and
we can say all right, greg,we're going to orient towards
this for today or this week, orfor the company, or for this
strategy.
This is how we're going toorient things, and from there

(01:12:42):
your brain can go all right.
If I have a general end statein mind, what do I want the
outcome of this situation to be?
I can orient towards that idealoutcome and then work my way
towards it.
And I can track my performancewith a pen and a yellow pen, and
I can track my performance witha pen and a yellow pad and Greg
, and then, if the situation isoverwhelmingly forcing me in a

(01:13:03):
different direction, well now Iknow hey, it's not headed
towards the most likely outcome,it's heading towards the most
dangerous, it's headingsomewhere else.
So either A I'm missingsomething.
It's part of my interventionstrategy, Exactly Right.
What am I missing?
That's not management.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
Management is saying well, it's going to happen, it's
inevitable and I'm going todeal with it.
Mitigation is fixing it, it'schanging it In stride and you're
exactly right In stride whennew and incoming information
might not be favorable to thelikely outcome.
That's it.
You hit the nail on the head.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
So what?
All right, one of the thingsyou said.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
You just framed a great question, so what?

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
Yeah, what's a so what?
Right?
So what's the so what, greg, ofeverything we discussed?
Okay, so I'll give three.
I got three gifts.
Okay, I like three, I like therule of threes, so this is my
three Christmas gifts that I'mgiving to everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
Okay, let's talk instinct and intuition for 10
seconds.
Instinct everybody has, butit's a prompt, it's just a push.
It's hey, it's a whisper.
You have to do something withit.
So it's just a prompt, it's notgoing to save you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
You have to use it, just a prompt.
It's not going to save you, andone of the things they can do
with that, greg, is go back toone of our previous episodes
called Instinct versus Intuition, so just want to shout that out
for us right there.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
And so intuition is something learned that we
develop over time.
But don't make the mistake,instinct has to be tuned as well
.
Okay, that's your first gift.
Second gift I got it heresomewhere.
Yeah, brian said learningsomething new, and I love it.
And what I wrote down learningsomething old.
You want to get better for NewYear's.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Go back and pick a concept and go back and deep
dive it and find out how muchyou were off the mark from the
muzzle to the target.
Find out what your Kentuckywindage took over in your brain
and how you're not cognitivelyclose enough anymore.
So I would call that learningsomething old and that'd be a
great sound, but I can alreadysee a couple of our friends
jumping on that one.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
So I want an old priest and a young priest.
That's what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
Thanks Well that's my last furry convention.
In a nutshell, and the finalone, brian, is what price
virtual reality?
You know I constantly bang onvirtual reality that's got
punching me in the nose rightthere for being a wise guy, and
what I mean by that is what wasthe idea of virtual reality?
What's your idea of virtualreality?
If you're talking about costingless money and everybody has

(01:15:31):
availability so I can dounlimited practice on my own to
get better, that's my idea ofvirtual reality.
If you're making somethingthat's so finely tuned with
fidelity and colors and lightsand flash and it's so expensive
I got to take out a loan to buyone for my agency and I can
still only get one personthrough at a time that's not
virtual reality.
It doesn't have to mimic realityidentically.

(01:15:52):
What it does is we have mirrorneurons for that.
What it does is it has to allowme perfect practice, or close
to perfect, correctable practice, a number of times for that
same low dollar amount.
It's got to be cognitivelyclose enough and once it is,
I'll learn.
So you take the high price oneand you take a low price one,
and if the low price one givesthe same outcomes, brian, I will

(01:16:13):
opt for the low price, oneevery time.
That's my two cents, that's.
That's what burns my grinds, mygears.
You know what grinds my gearsExactly?

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
Yeah, and the key word there is outcomes.
Yep, we are not as humans, sortof we don't fully understand
outcomes.
We go into this thing, go into,we make decisions based off of,
of actions, not outcomes.
Right, meaning we look at whatactions are happening or what

(01:16:46):
actions I need to take, andmaybe that's tied to some intent
or some, some motive to youknow in a sense, but we don't
always take into accountoutcomes.
And this is what I was thinkingabout after our discussion about
the whole luigi mangione uh kidwho killed the, the united
healthcare ceo and the social.

(01:17:08):
They're just the response toall that, right, societally.
And I was like what the fuck iswrong with people?
Like okay, because, because,first of all, I get it if you
don't care about the guy andyou're like whatever, some dude
got smoked, I don't fucking knowhim, okay, that's fine.
That's actually kind of anormal way to look at things.
Like, in a sense, like hey,this didn't affect me, like, at
least I get that at a primitivelevel, interpreted it and said

(01:17:30):
this is what it is.
Because what was the outcome?
You got there, all right, youdidn't.
Do you think you changedsomething?
You think you brought attentionto something that people didn't

(01:17:54):
already know about.
You think it's going to change,because I'm going to tell you
exactly what's going to happen.
Is now every healthcare companysenior executives?
Well, I guess they're going tobump up their security, which
means that's going to increasetheir cost.
You think they're going to takethat out of their fucking
paycheck?

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
No, they're not.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
They're going to pass it on to the customers, right,
but I compare that to theSeptember 11th tax, greg.
Well, what were the outcomes ofthat?
Changed the fucking world andand did.
Did they achieve what theywanted?
They didn't care how manypeople they killed that day.
What did they want to do?
They want to drag us into along, fucking, protracted war
and bleed, you know, I mean likethey got the outcomes they

(01:18:31):
wanted and and and so.
So it's I, and I use theseexamples because they're
relevant and people and peoplelook at them, but I'm like no,
no, no, think about that.
Your individual things, whetherit's training or whether it's a
situation, or, and it's like theoutcome is the most important
part.
So you may be working really,really hard on something that's
very complicated and tough andand you think you're doing

(01:18:52):
really well, but but you'reyou're focused on the actions
that you're performing, not theactual outcomes.
The outcome should define whatthat action is, what the path it
is that you take.
It's you start there with whatis the best way to do this or
what is the outcome that I want,and so if I focus on that one,
I get back to your training andinvestment.
Stuff is like I obviously getmore bang for my buck that way

(01:19:14):
and it helps me figure out anddo the cost benefit analysis of
something of an action that I'mgoing to take, because that's an
investment and that's your timeand money and that's the
biggest thing.
None of this is about money orfunding, because there's plenty
of it out there and when peopleget on board with something,
that shit opens up and all of asudden there's plenty of money

(01:19:35):
for something and the problem iswe spend it all on stuff and
not necessarily get a return onthat.
So it's not about the money,it's about time, and people
don't.
We human beings are lazy, right?
We don't want to take the timeto plan this out or think this
out or or or recognize thepotential spirals of a situation
, because that's hard, it'scomplex, right?

(01:19:56):
We don't know.
We don't know everything, rightand and and something can come
along and change.
You know, like you said, wedon't know what I said, we don't
know what it's going to be infive years.
You said no, we don't knowwhere it's gonna be in five
months.
It's like yeah, fuck, yeah,you're right, because a natural
disaster could occur that youknow california breaks off and
falls into the ocean, which I'msure a lot of people wouldn't
care.
But you know I live here so Iwould but do you see what I'm

(01:20:26):
getting at, though?

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
I do, so let's, let's street it up one final time
before the holidays.
Brian, you live in California,is that true?

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
Yes, and you understand.
Wait are you?
Are you deposing me right now?
I'm not answering any questionsabout an attorney present.
Hey, you have an attorneycoming on Sunday.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
What an attorney?
Do you understand what ariptide is?
Yes, a riptide perfectlyexplains folks.
Look it up if you don't knowwhat Brian was talking about.
If you're in the water during ariptide and you just go through
a lot of flapping your arms andkicking your feet, the outcome
is you're still going to die.
So there's a couple of simplethings that you have to do to

(01:21:02):
fight a riptide, for the outcome, to survive and get back to
shore.
So all of that motion that youthink I'm strong and I'm tough
and I'm smart and I'm going tojust swim my ass off and I'm
likely to get out of thisdoesn't matter to a riptide.
The ript and I'm going to justswim my ass off and I'm likely
to get out of this doesn'tmatter to a Riptide.
The Riptide doesn't know you.
So that's the problem that we'refacing.

(01:21:24):
What problem are you solving?
What are you working towards?
And all that work you're doingit's noble, but if it's not
outcome-based, we have aspecific problem with that.
We don't have a general problemwith that, because generally we
think that everybody is nobleand is doing the right thing,
but we have a specific problemif it doesn't move the dial.
If all of the stuff that you'redoing doesn't move the dial, I

(01:21:44):
would say reassess yourpriorities.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Yeah, that's a as usual.
You're great at streeting it upand giving those sort of
examples.
I live on the street.

Speaker 2 (01:21:54):
Brian, this is all a stage.

Speaker 1 (01:21:56):
Literally.
That's a stage I'm right now.

Speaker 2 (01:21:58):
yeah, it's cold.
You can see my breath.
If I turn sideways, I'm outside.
It's horrible.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
It's horrible for the holidays, poor Lanny.
I'm sitting in Lanny's truckright now recording this oh my
God, Getting that free Wi-Fifrom the McDonald's across the
street.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
Exactly God, there's money.
Neither Brian and I have money,so we would like some.
Please send it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
So we got into a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:22:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
There's any God, even some of the concepts this is
the tough part about this istalking about some of these and
because they're all complextopics that kind of you know
they all interplay with oneanother.
Topics that kind of you knowthey, they all interplay with
one one another.
But you, you can't just justlearning the under or learning

(01:22:44):
the science behind it, orunderstanding the complexity of
it doesn't always help me, rightI want to keep things simple,
right, and that's why we saidwell, what's, what are you
trying to achieve here?
what's the outcome you want, andare your actions and thoughts
and beliefs, are they alignedwith that?
Because if they're not, thenthen you're never going to get
to that outcome, even with thebest intentions in mind, you
know.
So, yeah, there's a lot in here.

(01:23:07):
So what, what I would love isif, if you're still listening at
this point, an hour and 20minutes in you mean me or do you
mean like people listening tous, people, people.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
That's hilarious, exactly, you know, is you know
that's Dave Grossman calling bythe way.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
Oh God, oh geez, don't, don't why you got to, why
you got to throw that flashbanginto the room.
So the you know reach out withquestions.

Speaker 2 (01:23:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
Comments, ask us about it.
I know our Patreon folks willalways get to you first and we
can have a further ondiscussions on there.
But any of these things, youknow, I pick it apart.
What the hell did you mean bythis?
Or why are you saying it thisway, or what is that?
Because that's how we canreally parse out some of these
details For some of you who arereally interested in it.
If you're not interested in it,you're not listening at this

(01:23:52):
point, so I don't care.
But you know you reach out tous so we can answer those
questions and we get on here andtalk about that.
That's the thing I would ask.
And then you know also, youknow that you have a have a safe
and wonderful Christmas and newyear and holidays too, because
this could be a contentious timefor some people and families

(01:24:14):
and and travel.

Speaker 2 (01:24:15):
Brian is talking about himself right now and is
definitely coming in.

Speaker 1 (01:24:20):
No, I, you know my coping mechanisms are alcohol,
so I'm fine, right.
I know that.
You know I can just have somedrinks.
My family isn't the one gettingup and doing the 5K turkey trot
on Thanksgiving.
You know, that's not us, that'snot how we do things.

Speaker 2 (01:24:39):
What Brian is telling you, folks, is he sets his
expectations very low.
And he always accomplishes them.

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
The only thing I do is I just try to take as much
off of my wife's plate aspossible, and I try to do as
much as I can and let heractually relax for the holidays.
I'm literally like I'm cookingevery meal.
Relax for the holidays.
I'm literally like I'm cookingevery meal.
I'll get this.
I'll take my parents around.
I'll do that Like you do, you,you do, you boo and you hang out
, you watch, your, watch, your,you know real housewives of

(01:25:07):
whatever.
Take care of Max, I'll, I'll,I'll take care of this situation
and we'll divide and conquer.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
Thank you, buddy.
You're the all time show forthat Well it's, it's
self-preservation.

Speaker 1 (01:25:17):
So all right, well, I appreciate it, greg, you know.
Appreciate you giving theexplanations and talk about this
one.
This is the interesting onesfor me.
I know that that I like gettinginto, but it doesn't always
translate well, sometimes to the, to the audience or to people
listening.
You know it's always hard totell you know what part they
want to glam onto.
So I appreciate you breakingthis stuff down the way you did.

(01:25:39):
So any, any, any final words,greg.

Speaker 2 (01:25:43):
Yeah, real quick, and you know all the Merry
Christmas, happy New Year stuffthat Brian said.
But the person in your life andthat may or may not be you that
can collect vital informationmore quickly is the one that's
likely to survive and prosperduring a challenging encounter.
Replay that a couple of times.

Speaker 1 (01:26:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:04):
It's all about information, and so orientation
is a prompt to gather betterinformation more quickly.
That's what this episode's beenabout.

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
Yeah, great final words.
I appreciate it.
So, thanks everyone for tuningin, we do appreciate it.
If you everyone for tuning in,we do appreciate it.
If you joined the episode,please share it.
Share it with a friend.
You know, give us a thumbs up,give us, give us a review on
whatever podcast platform you'relistening to, reach out to us,
connect, uh, we appreciate it.
You know, always hit us up on.
Linkedin is actually a good onefor that.
Besides all the other 95 of theshit that's on there's fucking

(01:26:36):
junk.
But well, it's gotten prettybad lately.

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
I don't feel bad about Grossman now.

Speaker 1 (01:26:41):
It's gotten pretty bad recently, but anyway, we
thank everyone for tuning in anddon't forget that training
changes behavior.

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