Our Need For Social Validation

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Historically, in-person communal gatherings met our needs for social validation and even stress relief. But today, those needs are met through rapid online interactions that fail to provide many of the important elements that are necessary for appropriate feedback. In this week’s episode we are using the assassination attempt on Donald Trump to unpack the psychological and sociological imperatives that drive UNINFORMED commentary.

During the episode we combine the science of human behavior and our experience in military, law enforcement, and protection work to dissect the pitfalls of initial reports and the unreliability of eyewitness testimonies. We then transition into the intricate dynamics of human behavior, particularly in the realm of social media to highlight how reduced consequences in online exchanges impact societal norms and individual conduct. We also examine the addictive nature of social media, driven by dopamine effects and immediate validation, and discuss strategies for maintaining a balanced perspective.

Lastly, we touch on the implications of misinformation and the importance of critical thinking. From exploring the need for evidence-based claims to managing negative interactions on social media, we stress the necessity of objectivity and accountability. Join us for this deep dive into the complexities of human behavior, social relevance, and the digital age. This episode encourages listeners to approach information more thoughtfully, deliberately, and responsibly.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Human Behavior
Podcast.
Historically, in-personcommunal gatherings met our
needs for social validation andeven stress relief, but today
those needs are met throughrapid online interactions that
fail to provide many of theimportant elements that are
necessary for appropriatefeedback.
In this week's episode, we areusing the assassination attempt
on Donald Trump to unpack thepsychological and sociological

(00:22):
imperatives that driveuninformed commentary.
To unpack the psychological andsociological imperatives that
drive uninformed commentary.
During the episode, we combinethe science of human behavior
and our experience in military,law enforcement and protection
work to dissect the pitfalls ofinitial reports and the
unreliability of eyewitnesstestimonies.
We then transition to theintricate dynamics of human
behavior, particularly in therealm of social media, to
highlight how reducedconsequences in online exchanges

(00:43):
impact societal norms andindividual conduct.
We also examine the addictivenature of social media, driven
by dopamine effects andimmediate validation, and
discuss strategies formaintaining a balanced
perspective.
Lastly, we touch on theimplications of misinformation
and the importance of criticalthinking.
From exploring the need forevidence-based claims to
managing negative interactionson social media, we stress the

(01:05):
necessity of objectivity andaccountability.
Join us for this deep dive intothe complexities of human
behavior, social relevance andthe digital age.
This episode encourageslisteners to approach
information more thoughtfully,deliberately and responsibly.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
We hope you enjoyed the episode, and please check out our
Patreon channel, where we have alot more content as well as

(01:25):
subscriber only episodes of theshow.
If you enjoy the podcast, Iwould kindly ask that you leave
this review and, moreimportantly, please share it
with a friend.
Thank you for your time anddon't forget that training
changes behavior.
All right, well, good morningGreg, and hello to everyone
listening.
This is going to be hopefully afun, interesting episode and

(01:46):
hopefully I get some somequestions answered.
This time it's like I would sayI'm fired up and greg is doing
the brian mellow.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm wondering what's going on.
I just don't want it to be amega episode, you know yeah,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
So so here's, here's the thing.
So we're just actually just forfor the listeners.
We're recording this on July18th, so recently.
Over the past weekend, somemajor events occurred that has
been the topic of the week, andof course, I'm talking about the
death of Richard Simmons and sowe're going to jump into that.

(02:21):
No, obviously we're talkingabout the assassination attempt
on Donald Trump, and you knowthe social commentary in a sense
, that comes from this.
And now this happens with everymajor event where everyone gets
on and they're the expert.
All of a sudden they bring upall this stuff and, like it's,

(02:42):
it's, it's always just drainingto me, um, and I'm sure it is to
most people, and most peoplecomplain about that and they
make fun of those people, butyet we all do it themselves.
So what I kind of wanted toapproach with this, greg, is um,
I was going to kind of get yourtake on this on why we as
humans do this, because you knowthere's my idea is that, like

(03:09):
everyone say, oh, it's the media, oh, it's social media, oh,
it's this, it's like, no, thetechnology has changed, but
people are the same.
Like, people are the same asthey've always been.
So you know when I took a stepback from all this, from

(03:29):
listening to all this nonsense.
You know, because, just forsome of the listeners who don't
know too, like this is one ofthose contexts where one I was a
sniper in the Marine Corps.
I did a lot of protection work,high threat protection for
different government officialsand agencies all over the world
as a well then, you call itdesignated defensive marksman or
counter sniper team, and so,like I have direct knowledge of
tactics, techniques, procedures,how this stuff works, and you

(03:52):
have experience in this field,in this situation, as do you,
greg, in other realms, not as asniper but but doing even
presidential details withdifferent protective stuff.
So so, like if there wassomething that came up that I
could speak to, it would sort ofbe on the subject.
But you know why I don't isbecause I wasn't fucking there.

(04:12):
So I can speak to my experienceand typical things that are
supposed to happen, but I can'ttell you anything about what
happened on the ground.
And you know when these thingsoccur.
It's like I see people with thesupposed vast experience
commenting on stuff, but like,if you have experience, you know
that the initial reports ofsomething that's happening or

(04:33):
what?
They're always fucking terribleand mostly wrong.
You know that there's a lot ofstuff that comes out that ends
up not being oh, that wassomething someone said and it
got to the news and then theyspread that right.
There's a lot of really reallybad information and it's
actually done in a manner thatpeople are trying really hard to
get out the information that'snecessary, right, and you flood

(04:56):
the net and then no one knowswhat is what and what's real and
what actually happened.
There's other things I noticed,like eyewitness testimony were
terrible.
People even when you're tryingreally really hard to recall the
events and be honest, like youdon't have a clear view of
things.
So when people come on andstart commenting on this stuff,

(05:22):
it's like it's sort ofinfuriating me.
It's like you're just addingnonsense out there or even if
they bring up a good point, liketheir overall way of approach
and theoretical base for thisstuff is just either
non-existent or they don't evenknow, and so it's sort of
frustrating and interesting tome and so I didn't want to.
I'm not.
This isn't going to be likesort of a bash on those people
thing.
I actually take it from acompletely different perspective
because you know I still go toother people for advice, like I

(05:44):
like yes, I was a sniper in thisrole, but like I haven't been
in that world in a long time, sowhen people will come to me
with questions about that stuff,or like a rifle or a new scope
or something like that, I'll belike, hey, hit up my buddy,
so-and-so, or here, take thisguy's number and ask him all the
questions, cause he's on top ofthis stuff.
Dude, I've been out of thatworld for so long and so, but

(06:05):
either way, the point and thetopic sort of today is is why is
us, as humans, why do we dothis?
And and you know, like I said,this has to be something that's
been around longer than thanInstagram and a 24 hour news
network right that this isingrained in human beings.
So I wanted to go to you, notjust because, like your

(06:27):
expertise on human behavior andexplaining this, um, but also
because you're you're you're notreally on social media, you're
you're on LinkedIn and, like youknow, functionally, you don't
understand it at all how it allworks.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
I've been at it for 13 years and I still learn it.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
But you do understand the concept.
Because like yeah, well, andeven you know, when I explained,
you asked me about Instagram along time ago and what I said
was like, because what you know,if you're listening, what Greg
used to do a lot when we had alot of folks was, you know, you
put together like a PowerPoint.
It may be one photo, it may befive photos and then an

(07:05):
explanation of hey, here's whatI saw, here's some photos from
the parking lot.
This is why this is importantand you just call them
instructor development, right,to keep people fresh, give a new
perspective, or or it could bea case that's happening Like,
hey, take a look at theseelements of the case, because
that's important and relevant towhat you're teaching this week,
or something Right.
And and so I explained to him,he was like that's basically
Instagram, just with a differentmotive.

(07:25):
People are just sharing partsof their life, with a bunch of
different photos and anexplanation of what that is, and
it's like, oh, okay, sodifferent, different intent,
different motive behind it, likeyou're doing this as a teaching
.
They're just doing this, you'resharing your life experiences,
stuff.
So so you actually dounderstand this stuff as a
medium, just in a in a differentperspective, which is why I
want to get your opinion on someof this stuff.
So we'll get into a few areas,but but the big one I want to

(07:48):
know is is you know, what is itabout humans that we feel the
need to to speak up and saysomething?
Because I think there's a lotmore behind that than people
realize.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, and and I think we're going to have to take it
in pieces and parts I think weneed to go yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
I think we're going to have to take it in pieces and
parts.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
I think we need to go back and bring some of them.
No, no, I love the introbecause we get to meet angry,
angry Brian.
A lot of people don't knowthere's that side of you hungry,
hungry, and when they see it,and the greatest thing in the
world is, you're not angrybecause somebody didn't come to
you to speak on CNN, you're notangry, you know.
And coming back and saying aminute of angle, you don't know

(08:28):
the millimeter of.
You know descent and theCoriolis.
That's all horseshit.
What it is is we like to talkabout things that we can think
can improve human behavior, orwe talk about limits of human
performance, again with theunderstanding that we want an
output, and the output is thatyou become better at being able

(08:49):
to see things.
So, you know, I always like tostart with historical
perspective.
Okay, java's, it's okay, shesaw a horse or a chipmunk, so
she'll be fine a minute.
Or Dog, and yeah, java, so shedoesn't bark, she just ran by,
run by, shouting yeah.
So the first perception isremember our need to be a part

(09:12):
of a tribe or a clan.
So social media meets that need.
And we're not going to talk allabout social media, but let's
talk a minute about it.
Our brains are wired forconnections with other humans
and bad things always happenwhen we interrupt that cycle.
So antisocial is not the samething as wanting or needing to
be alone.
I know a lot of people that areI would classify as loners,

(09:34):
that live up in Gunnison,colorado, because they like
being loners and they'recompletely successful and
they're wonderful humans.
Okay, so I would also say,brian, it's very different when
you choose to be a loner or whensociety chooses to leave you
alone.
So first, if we can understandthat now we seek out tribes, we

(09:55):
seek out clans, we want to haveauthentic societal and
psychological connections withother humans.
Guess what?
That's no different historicalagain than my first section is
back in the 60s and 70s, ourparents, your parents and mine,
did what was called happy hour.
Now happy hour is taking on awhole new meaning.

(10:16):
Now, folks, yeah, look it up.
In the 60s and 70s, everybodythat lived around Detroit worked
for General Motors in one way,shape or form.
Before they ever made it homefor dinner, they would stop at a
club or a bar and they wouldsit around and have their fancy
drinks and they would bullshit.
They would talk about politicsand they would talk about
religion and they would talkabout their shitty boss.

(10:39):
Not for social validation asmuch as for a release, for a
cathartic moment from a busy day.
And that's where we get thesmoking and alcohol are bad for
us, but that's what we relied on, brian, that was our state
mechanism.
So our social media then was theclub Chevelle and Warren and we
would stop in and we'd have acouple of drinks and the bar

(11:00):
knew it, so they had bar foodand they had low drink prices.
Drinks and the bar knew it, sothey had bar food and they had,
you know, low drink prices.
And then we would DUI ourselvesback home and generally beat up
our significant other or kickthe dog.
I mean there was a lot of badrepercussions from it In our
mind.
what we thought was that we werereducing the stress in our
environment and we always got apositive feedback loop because

(11:24):
of the dopamine.
Were there a couple offistfights now and again Were
different things happening.
Of course they were, but theidea was that we were in the
moment hey, I'm with my tribemates, look at me, I you know.
Hey, go, go to Tim.
He's always pissed aboutsomething and Tim's like hey,
kiss my ass, you didn't gothrough what I went, and that's
exactly what social media fillsnow.

(11:44):
The problem is it's different.
Flash to bang is much fasterNow.
We don't all get into our carsafter work and drive to a place.
It's not deliberate like that,brian.
Now it comes fast and furious.
So people feel that need forvalidation, they feel the need
to be heard and they have anoutlet now that they've never
had before it's, and it's somuch quicker and more powerful,

(12:08):
far-reaching okay, so so, yeah,yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
So I, I like your analogy there, the happy hour
analogy, and, um, so let's saythat's what this is and let's
say there's a lot of discussionwith that.
Um, so I, I, the, thetechnology is obviously
different, so one, the, thecommunity is bigger, um, so the
amount of people that'll hear it, the, the spread, the reach,

(12:31):
like you said, that the, theflash to bang is faster, it's,
it's easier.
So I don't have to sit thereand think about what I want to
say.
I can just I can literally gostream of consciousness on
twitter if I really want to, andhere's the other part, because
you're taking it from asociological perspective, which
is what this probably wholeepisode really is.

(12:53):
But if I get out of line atthat bar, someone's going to
punch me in the face.
Yes, because I'm looking throughthem eye to eye and it's
right'm in their presence, righthere in person.
So so, when I don't have the,the feedback mechanism is very

(13:13):
different on social media.
Yes, because there's very.
There's little to no risk, um,there's little to no actual
consequences for what I say ordo on there.
And then now what's happened, Ibelieve over time is is that's
now led to sort of that cultureof, well, it doesn't matter.

(13:35):
So so and here's here's where weforget that sometimes we all do
because the fidelity and thegranularity and the sort of
production value of a video onInstagram is very different than
that gritty.
You know, we're having a drinkand a smoke and talking to
someone at the bar andexchanging ideas.

(13:56):
Right, it's very, verydifferent.
And so we almost attributedifferent values to these.
Right, we can, we can attributesomeone as an expert in
something that they're not.
Uh, we can, we can look at it,simply because we'll look at the
production value and look atwhat they're saying and doing.
We're like in the bar you goshut the f up, dude, you're just
using big words.
Again, that's.

(14:16):
Mikey always goes to thethesaurus and tries to sound
smart.
You know what I mean.
Like you, you don't have asmuch of that and and then I
think that sort of adds to thislike, hmm, that correction in
the bar, right, so if I'm inthat community and people know

(14:46):
me and I start piping up aboutsomething, one person might go
like, yeah, yeah, but what?
You don't know shit about thatarea.
But then maybe the other, therest of the group, goes oh, no,
uh.
Uh, brian's actually beenstudying that his whole life.
I know he works down there atthe plant, but you know he goes
and you know he's a history buffand collects this or something
like that.

(15:06):
Right, that that?

Speaker 2 (15:07):
allows.
As a matter of fact, he's themost qualified person to talk
about that Exactly.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Well and, and you know, there there's different
ways to look at it.
Like, I just gave you the mybone a few days at the beginning
to how I could uh uh talk onthis specific example, but I
don't because I stay in my laneof what I do and I don't mean
that as a negative to people whodo speak of it, because the
other thing I see with I thinkis different on a social media

(15:34):
platform than it is in real life.
Is you sort of, well, ithappens in real life, it just
happens at a greater scale onsocial media is like this sort
of character arc of these peopleand I'll, the group I'll belong
to is the one I'll bash, right.
So, so you've got these likeveteran influencers, right, and
maybe they start a company ormaybe they get out and they do
something.
It's really cool, whatever itis.

(15:55):
It's a coffee company, it's at-shirt, it's a this thing, I've
got whatever awesome and theyget like dude, yeah, whatever it

(16:23):
is.
And they get like popular andthen they get a following and
it's like, hey, that's awesome.
And then they there's thischaracter arc that they all fall
into and it give your thoughtson Ukraine, like, do you
understand?
Like that was my original whatI wanted to do in life.
Like I got a bachelor's inpolitical science and I was
looking at all this stuff in DCto go do, and because I really,
really enjoyed foreign policyand thought it was intriguing,

(16:46):
my life went a different pathand I got more interested in
what I do now.
But the idea was like this isextremely complex topic, like
why are we oversimplifying that?
And so we have this need tohear it from someone.
And I get this because we talkabout this in a number of ways.
It's just how sociologicallywe're.
We're established withrelationships and groups and

(17:07):
tribes, and then there's alwaysgoing to be a leader and there's
thought leaders and influencers.
That term goes back, you knowit was for as long as humans
have been around, um, but but isit?
is it, is it just more prevalentnow, or is it just now that we
have the ability to see morethan than it was?
And and what is it again, likeI know you're talking about.

(17:29):
We need to be heard, we need tobe said, but like but why do we
what?
But then why do I do that inone area and not in the other
meaning?
I'll make fun of you greg saylike you're not an expert on
covid, but then, when you'regiving your theory on this, I go
oh yeah, that's, that's awesome.
I agree with this, like you see.
See how we're so.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Um, it's like a dichotomous way of looking at
this thing so so, like like asea lion, we're going in and out
of the waves, yeah I'm allbecause we have to know it's
okay because again, welcome toangry, angry brian folks yeah, I
get love to greg first startedwhen we were driving to the car
and he was banging on thedashboard and ranking.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
I love it.
I can't get my thoughts out ina coherent manner, which is why
I'll never be one of thosepersonality types that have that
.
Because I can't do that.
You know what drives my gears.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Here's the thing we think we need to unwind or relax
or escape, but in actuality weneed to socialize, because
socialization is an essentialform of self-expression.
We need to seek validation ofothers, whether it's a wife or a

(18:39):
kid, or a friend or a husbandor a significant other.
Fill in whatever DEI you want.
We also need to be entertainedand find like minds for
emotional support.
That's an essential.
That's not a thing that we canbargain with or trade off, and
social media immediately offersus a safe environment with

(19:00):
absolutely zero repercussions,exactly like Brian said, and I
would posit that the averageuser on social media wants to
remain connected and share theiropinions and give emotional
support to other humans, justlike on Facebook.
But what happened is now theygot into a feedback loop of
social validation that dumpsdopamine and you have also

(19:25):
linked back in, not to use theirtitle.
But because that scary feelingin the pit of your stomach after
being called out or fearingthat you're going to be
challenged on social media wantsme to get back there and see
how many more people linked, howmany more people looked at me
people reading it do I can.
I feel vindicated by what I sayor do.

(19:46):
So it's all a chemical game,but I would ask you to think
just for a minute.
What kind of total release doyou think that thomas thomas
crooks felt when he finally hitsend on that message he had been
working on for weeks?
yeah and dumps his message onsocial media and ads for the
rally.
Okay, that's what we'refighting here, brian.
So you have homophily on oneside, the tendency for people to

(20:08):
seek out or be attracted tothose birds of a feather who are
similar to themselves right.
Then you've got isopraxism ison right on the other side of
the coin, and that's brought onby our mirror neurons.
We're unconsciously mirroringthe behavior of others that we
admire or we want to be around,and it just starts to get going.
It's not your plan for the longgame.

(20:29):
It just starts to happen andthen, all of a sudden, we're
like, hey, wait a minute, let'snot fight about this.
We're tribe mates and thatcohesive nature of cooperation
keeps drawing us back.
I wonder what Jim said about mylast post.
So have you ever been in asituation where you saw the same
post over and over and over ondifferent channels?
And it's a guy saving a dog inIndonesia or whatever, and you

(20:54):
saw it six months ago and yousaw it a year ago, but now they
changed the music and they put aflower at the bottom and then
they put their own name on it.
That's seeking psychologicalprotection and sociological
validation, brian, and we knowthat biologically, the return on
investment is that we get a tonof dopamine from those things.
So, and when that counter goesup I don't even know if they use
counters anymore, but rememberin the early days- there was a

(21:17):
counter on your site.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, oh it likes.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
That's a perfect way of describing it.
So now what happens, brian, isthat, instead of just unwinding
and escaping like at happy hour,now we find out that wait a
minute, we got a whole bunch ofnew friends and we're engaged in
a whole bunch of new onlineactivities, and my self-esteem
even gives me a title.
Somebody called me and said,well, would you give an opinion
on this Holy shit?

(21:40):
And now, guess what?
We got one foot in the trapalready, don't we?
So every time we do it, itreinforces the fact that, uh,
this is part of my identity andit's part of who I am.
And you said earlier, when youwere joking like, oh yeah, you
know, chuck, he always readsinto that shit that a long time
ago, uh, it was slow enough.

(22:01):
Like Shakespeare wrote aboutFalstaff and uh, henry the
fourth wrote about hey, let's gohave a drink before we go home
for dinner and discuss theseheavy topics.
Right, and I'm paraphrasingBrian, we don't do that now.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
We don't go to dinner and sit around and think this
is how we do it now.
Which is not congruent with howhumans are you.
So what I'm, what I'm gettingfrom you, is is there certain
psychological and sociologicalunderpinnings, that that, that
and necessities that that aresort of contributing to why we

(22:38):
do this?
And then and then theenvironment and the system and
the medium takes over andcreates that sort of feedback
loop where now I'm doing it somuch I don't even realize it.
Now it's a couple of that.
Couple of that baseline.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yes, couple that with the immediacy of social media,
the immediacy of information.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
One of the first things humans need feedback, and
when you get immediate feedback, it's yeah, we'll take it, even
if it's sketchy.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
So they had a microphone in a kid's face that
knew Crooks, yeah, and this iswhat he said.
They said can you comment onthe shooter?
And he said, yeah, you know, Idon't know him.
I didn't know him in school.
He wasn't in my class, but hewas bullied and he was a loner,
what you know, that's an.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
SEF, that was the.
I saw that because he's likewell, you know, he got bullied a
lot and people said stuff tohim and they were like, well,
what kind of things would peoplesay to him?
What do they call him?
Well, I don't really know, I'mnot sure, but I know it's like
well, wait a minute, you justsaid you're providing some form
of evidence to support yourclaim and then, when asked on

(23:43):
the evidence, you cannot provideit.
So now.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
There was a repercussion, though, because
the interviewer had the mic inhis face and was looking square
at him, just like that guy theother day on the news that I
told you.
That said.
Well, he crawled up like aninchworm, like Lee Harvey Oswald
.
Wait a minute, that didn'toccur.
You can't conflate facts andtruth and historical perspective
and come out with an opinion inreal life because somebody will

(24:09):
call you on it.
But on social media, brian,there's that freedom to say what
you want.
You can give a thumbs down tosomebody and change the
trajectory of their week, butyou'll feel better for the next
four hours.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
You get how that works, and I know you do, but
I'm hoping that I'm saying thatin a manner that the people
listening can understand okay,and then I would apply this then
, obviously, if not just forsomeone who goes out there and
says something and I'm gonnaspeak my mind, but then it's
then the same for, like, thecomment section, right, and

(24:43):
there's, there's different typesof stuff you'll see in there,
um, you know, that's why why,even on our social media, like
on, let's say, certain ones youcan control, like on our
Instagram, you can only commenton our stuff if you're following
us.
And I do that for a specificreason, because your stuff can
get out there and people canshare it and a lot of people can

(25:04):
see it, but then it might popup in your feed for some other
reason, cause Instagram goes ohhey, you're, you have these
accounts you follow.
Check out this account.
All these people follow these.
This account too, right?
So I'm just kind of explainingto you, greg, but like so
accounts pop up that you're noteven following, right, just like
on LinkedIn, when it says, hey,do you want to follow?
Or a lot of your followers arefollowing this person, right,

(25:26):
and so what I do is you have toactually click follow in order
to comment on our post, and I dothat as a barrier.
I do that to keep out thelowest like common denominator,
the lowest one percent of peoplethat just are just assholes
looking for a fight right, justsay stupid stuff.
Because it shows that you tookthe time, like you wanted, to

(25:48):
comment so bad on our posts thatyou took the time to follow us.
So you, you have to, you had totake a step in there.
So it's demonstrates yourintent, right, because most
people are going to go.
Well, oh, I want, I want to saysomething.
They go only on the followersand like or whatever, and
they'll just go on.
Right, because it's so.
That's who I'm trying to, theriffraff I try to keep out and
it's one small barrier, but Iwould.

(26:10):
Everything you brought up wouldapply to that.
That comment section.
So why would I mean and you'veseen them even on LinkedIn the
comment section are hilarious Ifyou know a lot about human
behavior.
Because it's just like oh myGod, it's again.
It's slapping my forehead,going like what are you talking
about?
So, so did these sort of samerules apply in there?

(26:31):
And then, why is that different?
Because you're always going toget someone.
That here's what I see One.
You're always going to haveyour classic sniper that's like
well, actually you know this,this, this or whatever, Looking
for that fracture, that mistakethat they can exploit right.
Then you're going to havesomeone that says like, oh yeah,
um, you know, that's just likesomething I did, where they they

(26:52):
make the post about them.
And then there's like peoplewere just like like you, like uh
, I know Clark always calls youlike he's like I love Greg, he's
my biggest hype man.
Oh, mckaylee was saying thesame things too.
He's like the biggest hype manon LinkedIn.
Cause you're just like hey,that's awesome, like way to go,
or like I support this, or likethat's really cool, great job.
So like you, and you're alwayslike that with people.
But but you know, those aresort of the three different

(27:15):
things.
So so what, what?
What is that there in thecomment section?
Is that?
Is that again?
Does that go back to the bar?
Does that go?

Speaker 2 (27:22):
back to the happy hour.
I got to remember that term andlook it up later to feel if I'm
going to be insulted.
So look, in all of our socialcontexts, in all of our social
contexts, two different thingscontacts and context.
We look for a lack of ambiguity, a lack of anxiety and safety

(27:42):
through belonging, first part,and loyalty, second part.
Brian, I know I can trust you.
I know that you would stand upfor me if I wasn't there.
I know that if we get into ascrum, you're going to be the
first one throwing punches andthat helps.
That helps me go day to day.
So what happens is now I'monline and there's a great

(28:04):
degree of anonymity.
There's almost zero eye contact.
I can't read your nonverbalcommunications.
So I have to crush you big.
And because I have control overthe keyboard, I have control
over the narrative, theconversation, and I can tell you
how to think.
I can tell you how to feel, andthat's all.

(28:26):
A mirror again back toisopraxism and homophily.
Uh, uh, that's my feelings ofinadequacy, my lack of control
in my own life and other aspectsof my life.
Okay, that's why I have to.
I have a need, a psychologicaland sociological need, to post
hateful comments.
Okay, you see, a person like me, brian, you know me, I'm always

(28:49):
glasses full.
There's a way out of this.
It's going to be great.
I love the way you turn thataround.
Okay, but there's other peoplethat I run into that are that
it'll never work.
We're all going to die and thatjust drains me, brian, and so I
have to avoid those people,because what happens is they
take my chlorophyll, they takemy oxygen and they just use too

(29:10):
much of me.
So that's why there are tworeasons I'm not on social media.
It's like jazz I'm afraid of it, I don't understand where it
might be going and all of therules.
And the second thing is thatyou know me, if somebody was
being belligerent or mistreatingor doing something like that, I
couldn't take that.
I would have to either fix thatperson or, you know, I would

(29:30):
constantly be sparring with them.
And knowing that now, with AI,that many of the comments aren't
even generated by the person,you know you're being rude
because that fills a hole in you.
You're not being rude becauseyou're smarter than me and once
we get that, that changes thebattle space.
So I choose not to be there.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
So how much of this is?
Let me sort of preface thislike, because you know, you see
this sort of differentcommentary and someone may bring
up a good point based on theirexperience.
Right, I could bring up allkinds of different points on
this one based on my experience.
Like I had people reach out andsaid like hey, what is going?

(30:14):
Like the best questions I gotright.
Well, yeah, the best questions.
Like well, they know, that wasmy response.
Like when people were, hey, didyou hear what happened?
Blah, blah.
I was like I know, man, what agreat guy I'm gonna be sweating
to the oldies tonight in honorof Richard Simmons and they're
like what, that's great, turn it.
The best questions I gotbecause people felt that they

(30:37):
could reach out to me which Ihope they did, and always
especially friends, people, Iknow Some were colleagues, some
were, but the best questions Igot were for people who had no
military, no security, no lawenforcement background, because
it was like how does this happen?
Or what was this, or just if itmy thing was like, or like they
just wanted my take, and I saidyou know, this is right.
After this stuff happened, I golook man, like I don't know

(30:58):
anything.
I go just from what I'm seeingin what's been reported so far.
This sounds like acommunications issue.
This sounds like acommunications issue.
This sounds like someone wastrying to do something.
It didn't make it through.
There's signal and noise.
All the stuff we talk aboutthere seems in gaps, sometimes
too many people you know withwell and the other thing is like
, well, how come there wasn'tthis?
and I was like, well, look, youknow, in a security element like

(31:21):
this, you always have yourovert, you know counter sniper
teams out there, that's it.
That's a deterrent more thananything.
And then you're always going tohave like a clandestine or
covert team somewhere that'shidden, just like you have plain
clothes people in the crowd andyou have uniform folks.
And you have right, there's,there's this web of how this
works.
Like well, you just got on thisperfect site.
I go yeah, they probably set upinside the building because

(31:41):
they were like hey, this is aperfect observation point right
I'll tell you right now.
I mean, my buddy had our teamsand we were on patrol and like
literally comes to me on theradio.
It's like, hey, this is aperfect spot for an ambush I'm
gonna set up here.
And then, guess what, there's aguy fucking waiting there for
us who blew himself up on ourpatrol.
So it was like, obviously,multiple people saw this as a

(32:01):
great ambush.
You know what I'm saying there'sonly so many, but but I I get
what.
What I'm getting at is, youknow, we always want an
explanation and humans alwayswant a simple explanation.
We don't like uncertainty.
We look for causalrelationships and everything
right.
We look for patterns where theyoften don't exist, because
we're primed as humans forpattern recognition exactly so

(32:24):
how much of this is based?
in fear.
And I don't just take thissituation in commentary Now, I
talk big picture about all of it.
Like every time there's apolice video shooting or
something that comes out, youget the same.

(32:44):
We're going to do a videobreakdown on this, we're going
to break down the body worncamera and all this stuff.
And I, you know, I kind ofthink that it's like a lot of it
doesn't have a lot of trainingvalue and I'm like, well, what?
And I try to really listen towhat they're saying and what
they're talking about and sothere's always like a tactical
conversation Well, you shouldhave taken cover here and you're
this.
And it's like okay, likewhatever, um, you weren't there,

(33:05):
but that I'm sure that's whatyou would have done.
And and I get that for likesome points but like, how much
of that is done out of fear?
How much of that is where Ihave to justify or I have to say
this is why this occurred.
I wouldn't have made thatmistake, so, uh, I know this
won't happen to me.
How much of that is just basedperiod out of fear?

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yep so so I'll answer it two ways, if you'll indulge
me.
First is hearing peopleimmediately come out and give
the loner explanation with theantisocial personality disorder.
First of all, stop, you have noidea what you're talking about.
Many people that I know areloners and they're perfectly
healthy and they don't need asmuch social interaction as you

(33:50):
do, and they function perfectlyin society.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Real quick, before you go down, that yeah please.
And part of it is because a lotof these terms get thrown
around so much that they becomemeaningless.
And then everyone like I knowso many people like, oh yeah, my
ADHD brain.
I was like did you go to adoctor?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, brain.
I was like did you go to adoctor, did you get evaluated?
Or oh, the person's anarcissist.
It's like, okay, how do youknow that and who cares and what

(34:14):
does that affect?

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, your desktop calendar is out of date.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
We heard something.
So part of that is becausethose terms become so widespread
.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And then now you force, youhave a taxonomy, becomes

(34:48):
inevitable.
But he's fighting with peopleat the scene and his family, and
he's so belligerent and drunkthat he's covered in sweat, he's
got dirt on his face and he'sripping off his own clothes
while he's going up and thegibberish that he's spouting is
just hilarious and stupid.
Okay, that's what we're talkingabout.
When we're talking aboutantisocial personality disorder,
we're talking about the mentalinability it's a disorder to

(35:15):
distinguish good from bad, andyou're breaking laws and you're
not conforming to social laws.
This kid held it together wetalk about with crooks.
Crooks fell right into all thething and we have an episode on
this coming folks, so I'm notgoing to ruin it now.
But he fell right into and Ihate to call it profile because
that spins everybody out ofcontrol.
That's exactly what it is.
He fits the perfect profile forit and he was screaming for

(35:38):
attention.
So the idea is that don't lookat antisocial personality
disorder as a reason for it.
Why do you choose that?
Because you're afraid, Becauseyou're an insecure, afraid human
being and you've got to pointto something that's outside of
your ken and say it must havebeen this.
Why do we get afraid when wesee a fraction of a millisecond

(35:59):
of a video and somebody says doyou see this shadowy shape that
looks like whatever?
Well, that's a UFO.
And even the most you knowtrained naval pilot said it was
traveling at 4,000 feet persecond and doing this and that,
Brian, there's not enough onthat video to draw a reasonable
conclusion about anything.
But because I'm controversial,it makes me feel better.

(36:23):
I have some control over what'sgoing on, and to know that
you're questioning it too.
Now I've created a mini tribe,a mini form of socialization on
social media.
That fits the need, but it'sbullshit.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (36:38):
And yeah, because the fear comes from, not we fear
things we don't understand.
Naturally, that's why we'restill alive, that's why we're
all live, either us talking oryou listening to this
conversation right now becausesomewhere in your throughout
your lineage, people said let'snot go, do that.
Uh, let's not do that.
Uh, maybe we shouldn't go overthere, I'm a little scared.

(37:00):
And so they stayed alive,exactly, and there's there's.
So.
So you have to have a healthyamount of fear for survival
purposes.
But I think a lot of this stemsfrom I want to know, I want to
understand this, and I don'tbecause it's too vast, too broad
, it's too complex.
So I'm going to oversimplify it,and here's some things I know

(37:21):
about the situation that arecognitively close enough or
close enough to something that Iknow or have seen before.
So it must be that and andthat's first of all, that's a
completely normal, logical, uh,survival based way to think, and
it's how we're wired to thinkright, it is that.

(37:44):
That, that's what.
That's what like meaning ourown cognitive processes are
working against us when it comesto sensemaking, because, if I
don't have a framework for this,because one of my buddies is
super knowledgeable in this typeof stuff and he was like, yeah,

(38:09):
but look at what he didcompared to what we know from
tactical training at thisprogram the average person
showing up and starting thatqualification with an M4 at 100
yards and blah blah.
And I was like, yeah, but andthen it was like a light bulb
moment for me.
I was like, oh OK, I see whatyou're comparing this to.
Yep, that's an unreasonablecomparison.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Unreasonable comparison and an internal
baseline.
It's not an external baselineright, that was my point.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
It was you're going off of what you know and you
can't unlearn what you know.
You can't say, Greg, put asideall of this experience you have
over here, no it takes agency.
You can't do that.
You can't do that, you can'tunlearn, you can't just say I'm
going to shut off the part of mybrain that knows this
information and go into it.

(38:57):
You can't.
So what we do is we equate itwith what we know.
But that can also get in theway because we don't know him,
we don't know.
Uh, get in the way because we,we don't know him, we don't know
.
And so we talk about theinternal baseline versus the
external baseline, and just whateveryone does is is you know,
they go the the exact oppositedirection of what you're

(39:18):
supposed to do.
An investigation, whatever goes,goes.
I think this is what happened.
Let me go find evidence tosupport my claim.
Okay, well, like that's the,that's the opposite way of what
you're supposed to go.
You have to go.
What can we?
What do we know?
What can we prove that we knowhappened, and then build from
there and then let the evidencetake you to where this situation

(39:40):
goes, and you have to look atit as objective as you possibly
can as a human.
But but we don't do that aspeople, because I need to have
an answer right now, because mybrain fucking needs that and it
needs it right away and I wantto beat out the millions of
people online too.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Yes, yes, well, that's the other part of it.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
That adds to the pressure of it, and everyone
wants to be the first one outwith the story.
I think so.
And now, because you have norepercussions.
People don't even retract whatthey said or change it later,
they just go.
Well, you know, I mean, howmuch.
That's the world we live in now.

(40:21):
I mean it's the government'sfault that.
I even thought that it was abig conspiracy.
It's like.
No, it's not.
The word you're looking for isI'm sorry, uh, but the word
you're looking for is like whatyou're saying is I'm not
responsible for any, forchecking the veracity or the
information that I take in, andand so it's that's the diffusion
of responsibility that we see,but but it's like it.

(40:43):
That's what frustrates me, andbut I don't want it to be a.
I don't't take it from a like a.
This person's an idiot orthey're an asshole or they're
just full of themselves.
It's like no, this is, this iskind of how we're wired, this is
, this is the way things workand and it doesn't translate
well over the the mediums thatwe use today.

(41:04):
So back in the happy hour bar,there was corrective measures
and whether those correctivemeasures were right or not, they
were corrective measures for mytribe, my community, where I
was at, and they formed yoursocialization for future,
exactly.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
So, look, you said so much good stuff.
Let's not hurry past this,let's slow down from it.
First of all, folks, when Briancomes out with something and he
picks it to death, he comes tohis own realization after a
while and calms down and thenstarts going okay, well, let's
look at the scientific.
But he started high and right,which is where we'll start again
.
I love that and I mean that's areally good trait, brian,
because you mentally at yourcatch.

(41:40):
You throw out all the shit, youget a little pissed about
something and then you go backto find out why most humans
don't do that.
So I give you kudos for that.
Let's go to crooks just for asecond.
Okay, crooks, on the day thattrump is going to be in his town
and people are going to go, itwasn't his town, it was closed
town.
Shut the fuck up for a minuteand listen to what I'm saying.

(42:00):
His area and now you got meangry, crooks.
Crooks knows this, his familyknows this, the neighbors know
this, the people that are thereknow this.
And Crooks comes up with theplan, by the way, because he is
a social being.
He says Mom, dad, I'm takingthe rifle and going down to the
rifle range, which is like metelling you when I'm in San

(42:21):
Diego hey, brian, I know there'sa hurricane, but I'm going to
run down to the pier and do somefishing.
Okay, it's that egregiouslyobvious.
But what happens is the flash,the bang of social information
and our likelihood not tobelieve that we're embroiled in
this takes precedence.
And so now the second part ofthat.

(42:42):
Now we use that information togo back and go.
Well, clearly there was aconspiracy, because the parents
didn't see it.
You think this was this kid'sfirst lie.
You think he didn't lie to awhole bunch of people to make
this plan?
Now, hold on, hold on.
So what happens is now what wedo, is we mistake misinformation
for accident and we startmaking them way more than

(43:06):
something.
So there was one, a guy that'sgoing down, and he goes look at
this woman in the background andat this moment she looks to the
right and then there's a smirkon her face and then she says
something to herself.
And when I slow it down, brian,have you ever played Angry
Birds when you're supposed to bepaying attention?
Have you ever been dickingaround on your phone sending
somebody a text or a joke rightin the middle of a really big

(43:28):
concert or something like that,and if somebody took that moment
in time and said I'm going tojudge the rest of this event by
this completely out of lineinformation.
That's what I fear, because yousaid that you said a number of
things and they were all right,but what you failed to say is
that there's a problem withthese people getting on as
experts, because it dumbs downall of us and that's the thing.

(43:52):
It becomes.
What is?
It becomes a fact in recordbecause they put it in print and
that's not true.
So we have to make sure that wego back to the bar, which I
don't mind at all, but we haveto make sure we go back to the
60s and 70s and we have to drawa line and say no, this shan't
stand.
This is not how good tribemembers act.
This is not philosophicallycorrect, this is not

(44:14):
psychologically correct and it'snot healthy.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
There's, there's no going back.
I know that, but it's, it's away to look at these situations.
And you know it's funny because, of course, you know the first
text I got from my brother aboutit.
He's like, well, it looks likeit's like we're taking a break
from social media for a coupleof weeks and I was like, yeah,

(44:39):
because it's like, oh God, here,here we go.
But we all, we all, and here's,here's my other sort of
question about this is we nowall know that this happens right
, that that people get on andthey say things and they're just
trying to be the first, sothey're trying to get hurt, like
we know this, we know, likethat that's a recognition right

(45:01):
there.
And even people go, oh, here wego.
Now everyone took their.
You know, I saw, you know allthe.
The memes out of this situationhave been absolutely incredible
, which gives me hope for, forthe for some have been very,
very so damn funny.
People are fucking hilarious andwhich, which I love, because,
because those are great and it'slike, uh, you know it, they

(45:22):
were talking about some famousperson, like oh so, and so
realized that they're a, uh,they're a security expert.
Now they went ahead and putthat hat on this morning.
It's like so we all know thatthat happens, but but then why
does it continue to engage usand why does it continue to
happen?
Like you, you get what I'msaying.
How come I can say that aboutcertain areas, but then I'll go

(45:43):
on and talk about this and notrealize it in in, even though.
Is it just because I'm closeenough to know?
Like, well, I kind of playedthat role before, so I can
comment on it, even though.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
I know, yeah, but even you're right.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
The people investigating it don't even have
don't even have all theinformation, and they're they're
they're literally investigatingit right now and they're still
putting everything together.
So what is it about humans thatwill drop those lenses?
We won't realize?
We won't put those filters onwhen it's something that affects
us?

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Yeah, because there's a competition to be the one
that drops your seed intosomebody for procreation.
I mean, if you want to know thereally simplest answer about
this, it's that there are tribalmechanics at work and you don't
even know them anymore becauseyou've been asking for a number
three and supersizing a clown'smouth for so long that you
forgot that.
But all of us have a role.

(46:39):
Crooks had a role, and what wasgoing on is, in his life he was
searching for something.
He couldn't find one way, so hefound an alternative.
And did he succeed?
In a lot of ways he did, and Idon't mean anything about his
attempted assassination, I meanabout his socialization.
So when you're in your familyand you're constantly being

(47:01):
berated and you don't makeenough money and you don't do
this and somebody goes, well,that's why somebody blow tops,
that's why somebody commitssuicide, yeah, but.
But that's the end of thespectrum.
Everything's this big longspectrum.
Uh, I went and got gas todayand somebody goes hey, nice car,
holy shit, that made the restof my day, brian.
I went and ordered a sandwichand not only did he get a

(47:23):
sandwich, but those barbecue orsea salt chips were amazing, or
I did my, you know, whatever,and I got some sort of feedback.
We don't understand how muchthat in a day-to-day environment
, is crucial to us, and so whathappens is we get it from social
media and we seek out sitesthat give us a return on our

(47:43):
investment, whether it'spornographic or whether it's,
you know, people sniping otherpeople and commenting and being
rude and being mean, or thebreakdown.
Now I can watch a videobreakdown and then type in wow,
I saw that, or man, that's good.
And now I feel the same levelis if I'm with those guys in

(48:04):
that group.
And that one was a SEAL Brian,holy shit.
And that one guy said he was asniper and I agreed with him.
So that kind of feedback we'renow getting in a different
manner.
The problem with it is flash tobang, the speed within which
we're getting it, because itdoesn't allow us to give
ourselves a gift of time anddistance and slow things down
and think about it, because if Iwould have said it at the

(48:26):
kitchen table, my dad would havepunched me right in the mouth.
He would have knocked me out ofthat chair.
If I would have been differentpolitically or religiously or
said something off color or donethat, I would have known
immediately that I was on thewrong path because we were in
small groups.
Then we went to work in ourcubicles, then we drove in our
car in society with a bunch ofother people in their cars.

(48:48):
It's just faster now, so wehave to take that into account.
No-transcript.
So now my electrochemicalneurotransmitters.
I don't have to wait around toget out my kit and find a vein
and do the heroin.
Now all I got to do is goonline and throw a table, you
know, through the window and gohey bitches, I'm here and I get

(49:10):
that feedback.
And, brian, I can do that on myphone while I'm driving, right,
and that's problematic becauseour emotional selves hasn't
caught up with our intellectualselves yet.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
So it's not.
So what you're saying then isit's, it's, it's almost, even
though we know like, ok, yeah, I, I start posting on social
media, I get a bunch of likesand comments.
Ok, that, that obviously getthat little bit of dopamine, I
get a reward.
Ok, that, that that's cool, I'mgoing to repeat that behavior.
And then it sort of becomes ahabit.
Right, and a lot of I think alot of a lot of this stuff is um

(49:47):
, people are just end up.
You know, your, your baselinehas shifted so much from what
you think normal is.
You just, you're just on thereall the time where you're doing
this and it becomes, becomeshabit, and so now you're seeking
that out, you know, and, and,but you're almost what it sounds
like you're saying to me isthat it's, it's even sort of
deeper than that, like the, themechanism that we use now is

(50:09):
tapping into a psychological andsociological imperative for all
humans and it's it's filling avoid that that has, that that
needs to be filled, like it'snot just some pleasure or oh,
you know, everyone wants to say,oh you, that person's just full
of themselves.
They got a big ego.
Everyone has an ego.
I don't use that termnegatively, I use it just just

(50:31):
all humans are you're, you'reconcerned about yourself and
your feelings more than yourecognize.
I think that's what you'regetting at.
Is so this, this one, well, oneinteraction, social interaction
in any form, is, is a necessityfor all humans.
I mean, you know the, the, theloner term is is, so I think
it's just bad language.

(50:51):
Um, because a lot of peoplethey call like oh, they're, it's
a lone wolf, or they no oneknew, or they're off, it's like
no, if they were a lone wolf,they'd be living up in the
mountain somewhere and you'dnever see them or hear from them
.
Because they're good, theydon't want to.
They don't want thatinteraction.
They want to be left alone.
Uh, these people actually theones who carry out attacks like

(51:15):
they do want that interactionand they're not getting it in
some manner or they're not beingheard in some way, but they're
going to be.
They don't have it.
So it's like, so it's, they'renot a loner there.
They've, they've been, they'vethey've self identified, you
know, they've self diagnosed asthis category, but and and
that's what's causing sort ofthis, this it's like you know,

(51:57):
the Kaczynski with sending theletters out and then his brother
reading going I've heard thisbefore.
That's my brother, ted, andit's Eric Harris and Dylan
Klebold.
At Columbine, While theshooting was going on, their
parents called in to thesheriff's station and not to say
I think it's my kid, ethanCrumbly.
When the parents found out thatthere was a shooting at the
school, they called and said Ithink it's my son, what happened
with Crooks, right?
His parents found out there's ashooting and they go.
They called the police and saidI think it's my kid, so it's in
.
And these are the things that wefocus on and I know we'll get
into that in detail on aseparate episode and I think

(52:18):
there's a good way to set thatup.
We just want to wait and verifya few things and wait till some
more stuff comes out, um, so wecan present that what we, what
we, what we're, what we'resuspecting, based on the
evidence we've seen so far, um,but it's, it's um, the way we
discuss these things and thelanguage we use is is becomes

(52:38):
misleading.
And then we sort of attributethings to that and now we sort
of dog pile on and oh yeah, andthen I bet you know he couldn't
get a girlfriend and he couldn'tdo that.
It's like, yeah, well, thesewere all contributing factors.
You know, maybe he had achemical imbalance to his whole
entire life that started when hewas a little kid and led him
down this path, or then theyalso had this.

(53:01):
But we focus on who the targetwas and what his motive was.
What political party did theybelong to?
And it's like, look, that'sinconsequential, that doesn't
matter.
It matters in terms ofinvestigation to figure out was
this part of a bigger plan?
Was this something by someother nation state or was this a
conspiracy carried out by agroup of individuals?

(53:24):
Yes, that you have to determineas investigation.
So you look into what themotive was, but for stuff like
this, it's like none of thatmatters.
This is a broken human beingagain, who carried this thing
out and felt like this.
So what we do is we sort ofconflate all these issues and
throw them together and then go.
Well, who benefits from this?

(53:44):
It's like well, stop for asecond and go with what you can
prove and what we know, andthat's a smaller box and we're
not happy with that.
And so I see this with everysituation and it just blows my
mind and frustrates me and Ithis.
This is why I also stay offsocial media a lot Because, like

(54:05):
you even brought up, justeveryone keeps reposting the
same shit like that.
I mean, yes, I know I dopattern recognition for a living
and so I probably see morepatterns than most people do,
because that's what I, that'swhat I do, but it's like I
scroll through and it's likethis is all the same thing.
The last 67 posts I went bywere basically almost identical.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
But how can you think that that's new?
That's what we're talking aboutin this episode.
You think that that's a form ofvalidation.
You made a mixtape with songsthat somebody else wrote and
recorded and you gave them tosomebody and said this is my
life, what.
You sent a passage from a bookthat another author wrote.

(54:48):
Brian, I'm just saying let's gohistorically here and put
things in a clear lens, becausewhat happens?
so look prolonged periods ofisolation can lead to mental
health issues.
That's true.
Being a loner has nothing to dowith that, that's a completely
different thing.
But we conflate them.
Then, all of a sudden, I've gotfriends.
And you've got friends thatsaid, hey look, the fix is in.

(55:10):
Well, tell me about that.
Well, there's just too manythings that happened on this one
incident for me to think thatthey were all random.
And I say second law ofthermodynamics.
And they go no, no, no, don'tstart with your entropic period
in this and the theory.
And I go why you don't want meto interrupt your bullshit with
science, brian?
There was a reason.
Every one of these things happen, the if my dad used to say it

(55:32):
this way.
He said if the dog wouldn't havestopped to take a piss, he
would have caught the rabbit.
And it took me 13 years tofigure out that my dad was a
human behavior profiler, that heunderstood situation awareness
better than I ever would in mylife, because he looked at the
situation and instead of puttingthings together in an awkward
Frankensteinian fashion andwelding them together, dad

(55:53):
looked at him at 360 and he saidlet's take a look what's really
happening here.
And he rolled it around, lookwhat's really happening here.
And he rolled it around.
And Brian, that's all I thinkthat we're saying here is that
some people get the immediategratification from being seen as
some sort of expert in theirfield, and that can become the
cause of them wanting to repeatthat behavior, even though that

(56:14):
behavior is no longer necessaryfor the survival of the tribe
survival of the tribe and and wedon't, um, as humans really
understand, uh, randomness verywell and exactly, even though
the world the world is is moreconnected in a sense.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
Now, um, you know, mario, they used to do, like the
what was it?
The uh, six degrees of kevinbacon or something like that,
where they take any actor and gowell, this actor was in a movie
with this person who was withthis person who was in, and it
all leads back to, like, kevinBacon, like, and it's funny
because it's like, yes, that'sthat's how the world is.

(56:54):
Just because, like, like, Ihave phone numbers and contacts
in my phone and this is nothingabout me, this is just that of
people that I have met beforeand discussed and they would go
oh yeah, I remember you, brianwho are one phone call away.
That person could pick up aphone and call Donald Trump.
The other person would pick upa phone and call Barack Obama.
Like, that doesn't mean I haveany connection to those two

(57:15):
people whatsoever.
So, even though there's,there's one person that could
link me to that person, thatdoesn't mean I can call up and
get them on the phone.
Like I went to the first highschool I went to was with
comedian John Mulaney and likehe's a year ahead of me and like

(57:45):
one of the stories that wentviral, that like from one of his
standups, like that was aboutme and my friends and that was
like my one buddy is stillpissed about it and it's like he
got off on our story, blah,blah, blah.
I was like well, like well, no,he made a joke out of it, but

(58:06):
like that doesn't mean that, youknow, it doesn't mean anything
besides that.
It's like you, you happen tohave this interaction.
That that was.
That person was connectedsomewhere else in some in some
other fashion.
There's no, there's nothing,there's no connective fiber.
It's, it's a random occurrencethat coalesces when the events
occur.
Like if Crooks had got a flattire on the way to that thing,
we would not be discussing thisright now.
And you know what he would havegone.

(58:28):
Maybe he would have gone.
I missed my chance and neverdid that, never did that again,
never did anyone else, nevertried that again.
Like, and we're not.
The part that fascinates me isyou know why we're not OK with
that?
Like, why can I not accept that?
Why is that not enough for meto go?
Wow, that's, that's crazy howthese things coalesce.

(58:51):
One shift in the wind or turnof the head changed the outcome
of events, even though I justsaw it.
I just saw it where, if Trumphad to turn his head, he'd be
dead right now, assassinated ontelevision.
I can accept that and I can say,oh, that's divine intervention
or something, whatever you wantto attribute that to.

(59:12):
But then, when it's looking athow this event unfolded, I don't
use that same logic, I don'tuse that same way of looking at
things.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
You went to a carnival with your kids and
allowed carny folk to put themon a ride that may or may have
not been tested, because theywanted to and said daddy, daddy,
let me go on the ride.
And you?

Speaker 1 (59:34):
stood by.
It was just cruising down thehighway 10 minutes before that?

Speaker 2 (59:38):
Yeah, exactly, and it's leaking oil now down the
highway.
10 minutes before that, yeah,exactly, and it's leaking oil
now.
And you stood by when itrackety boomed the kids around
and you know you were a littleafraid of the things that
might've happened there, but youdid it consciously, knowing
what the risks were, because youwere willing to weigh those
risks.
The difference is, in themoment we tend to do those

(59:59):
things where, as when we look atbig picture stuffs, we still
think these things are somehowwithin our control, talking
about them, but they're out ofour control.
There's something that we hadnothing to do with.
But we want to give our opinionbecause I can go home and sleep
.
I can go home that night andknow that's not going to happen
to me.
Those people, I would have beenable to pick them out.

(01:00:20):
Look those stupid cops.
That guy over there yelled inthe bit.
You have no idea what the noiselevels were.
You have no idea where theywere standing.
The camera is not the perfecteye, but we're willing to
comment on it because we want tobe part of the team.
We don't want to be that personthat's not allowed into Studio
54.
We don't want to be that personthat's so far back in line that
they never get interviewed orhave a chance at the gosh damn

(01:00:43):
sweepstakes.
We want to be relevant, andthat's the fight now.
The fight now is can we stillbe relevant if nobody knows me?
You know the biggest insultsfly over states.
Wow, the gang of deplorableswhen we use that stuff what does
it do?
You understand how that works,so I need you to read my opinion
, brian.
I even know it's opinion-basedtestimony.

(01:01:03):
I want you to associate mywords with something positive or
negative.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
I'll tell you to stop being a snowflake and stop
letting everything hurt yourfeelings.
Don't be so offended.
But then when you call where Ilive a flyover state I get
offended and I get upset youabsolutely crush me, but that's
the part that like is that'shuman.
That's well, that's what I loveabout humans, that's, that's
everything.
That, right, there iseverything.
It's.
You know, it's like you, you,you, the the problem is the

(01:01:33):
problem.
But the problem is also like,if you're recording yourself
doing a rant in a truck, likeabout everything, like you're,
you're the issue, you're notunderstanding it.
Like that that's the problemand and which is fine, like I
don't, I'm not.
This is not a judgment on anyof these things, because we all
engage in this behavior in somemanner, like we, because it

(01:01:56):
fills a need it fills, a needthat's been with humans since
humans.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
I can't just live in that cave alone, I can fish, I
can hunt, that's great.
But then I see oogluck and mucktar across the road.
I got to go and engage them.
And then I engage them andguess what?
I felt pretty good and I sleptbetter last night because the
saber tooth tiger didn't comeinto the cave, because the
oogluck stayed up to watch thetelevision and he chased it out.
That need, what it forms, is abond, and that bond is hardwired

(01:02:27):
into humans.
And guess what?
When it came to crooks, crookswanted to feel that too.
And he wanted to feel that somuch that he bought a ladder and
he scouted things out and hetrained and he used you know.
So guess what, brian?
He used unconventional methodsto achieve the same thing that
you achieve on social mediaevery day.
And you know what Can we faultthe kid for that.

(01:02:48):
He was 20.
Did he know better?
Yeah, kind of, but, but he wasjust acting out the role we
wrote for him.
This is not something that like, like people are still trying
to figure out.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
We have to try to help write it.
I agree he's not.
I agree he's confused, butthat's with any of them.
Just read any manifesto thatanyone has ever written about
this stuff Exactly Like any oneof these and it's all over the
place.
They have no fundamentalunderstanding.

(01:03:17):
They have no specific ideologyand intent.
They rarely do, unless it's,like you know, he held down a
job.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
He had friends Come on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Yeah, so did.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Elliot Rodger right, I mean, you're on to something
now and that's for a futureepisode, folks.
The point here is that theinevitability comes from the
hardwired psychopathy of humans,and we all repeat those
behaviors because they're in ourbest interest when they're
grown up and we haven't evolvedpast them.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
So so what, what can, what can I do?
You know, given everything wetalked about and given the um
context and how communication islike, how, how can I regulate
that?
Like, because me, I'm the it'shard, it's like I gotta get to
stay off this fucking site forthe next week, and but it's

(01:04:08):
that's.
Even me knowing how this stuffworks, it's hard for me to to
sort of accept it or go throughit, because I just get bombarded
with it.
Now, the memes, the funny stuffoh please, if you're set those
of you out there who have beensending me that fucking
hilarious, I love it becauseit's, it's great, that showed
the sense of humor.
But, um, but when it comes tothis I'm going to make a comment

(01:04:30):
.
It's kind of like I'm superhesitant.
I mean, you've even seen me inclass where people lay stuff out
and I was like, look, based onwhat you're saying, but it
sounds like there's more.
Let me caveat that with a fewthings.
Here's why I'm arriving at that.
So what can I do to get?
Is there anything I can do, ifI'm listening to this right now,
to get better at it or filterit or do something?

(01:04:53):
I mean to help gain just helpgain a better perspective on
what it is that I'm ingesting.
What is this information thatI'm ingesting?

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
So I would say start with you first.
And I'm telling everybody startwith yourself first.
I don't know if that's propergrammar, and what I mean by that
is that you've got to take alook.
It's.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Detroit Public School grammar.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Exactly?
What's the necessity of thecomment that you're about to
make or write or post?
What's the urgency?
Is there a purpose to it?
Now, if that purpose is thatyou want to rant and vent, then
it's okay, because if you don'trant and vent in writing or in
making a video or do somethinglike that, you're going to blow
top, and that's not healthy.

(01:05:34):
If it's going to be incitingsomebody to get up and work
towards cleaning up the river, Iwould say that you're probably
on the right track.
If it's inciting somebody toget up and work towards cleaning
up the river, I would say thatyou're probably on the right
track.
If it's inciting somebody tocome up and just be civil
disobedient to be a classic, youknow, uh uh obstructionist I
would say you're probably on thewrong uh uh direction.

(01:05:55):
Your attitude and emotions anduh ability to blend in with
other humans societally is for apurpose.
It's for you to live out a longlife and procreate and
everybody that'll get along.
Dei when it's forced is shit.
Dei when it occurs naturally insocialization is always a
wonderful thing.
Take a look around you.

(01:06:17):
So what you got to do is you gotto disconnect once in a while.
You got to take the phone andshut it off.
You got to put it away.
You got to read a differentmagazine.
You got to sit down with acouple of people at the coffee
shop and talk about things, andwhat I mean is opening the
aperture, because what you'veallowed is you allowed the last
few years of social media tonarrow your focus and your

(01:06:38):
perspective, and when I narrowmy focus and my perspective, I
can't get out of my own way.
I'm so trapped.
Look, how many times do we saythinking outside the box, dude,
there's a lot of great shit inthe box and we're handing out
flashlights.
But go back to that white beltcuriosity.
And when you're a white beltyou're learning so much more
than you do when you're a blackbelt.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
And if that makes sense to you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
That's how I live my life, brian.
Look, I'm an opinionated son ofa bitch and I know a lot of
shit, but you know why I don'tgo on social media Folks?
I have a LinkedIn site andevery Monday I drop it.
It happened on a Monday and Icomment on other people's site.
Why?
Because I'm trying to makemoney by broadening my appeal
and exposure in my brand.
So a new client will go holyshit, this guy might know what
he's talking about.

(01:07:21):
The reason we're on thispodcast is because we're trying
to open your aperture, we're nottrying to close it.
So, brian, that would be myanswer, and I know it felt
convoluted, but I hope you cansee my primary goal is that
social media can work either way.
Don't let it have a potentialeffect.
Sometimes you need todisconnect.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
Either way, don't let it have a potential effect
Sometimes you need to disconnect, and I think you actually hit
the nail on the head, whichwould be my answer to my own
question or my advice.
People, when you said, start,start with you.
And so it's like a lot ofpeople are just doing things and
repeating this behaviors out ofhabit, and this is what it's
become, and there's like there'salmost no intent behind it,

(01:08:02):
because it's just somethingyou've done.
And if you don't know your ownintent behind why you're doing
something, then then you, that'sthat's where you think about.
It's like what is the point ofof this that I'm trying to make?
And that's even ingesting theinformation too.
Like I don't.
Like you said, part of thereason why people say so much
stuff is because languageactually is only so much and you

(01:08:25):
can only base so much on wordsand and so because this is based
that, because this masscommunication is based on just
lines of text, I have to I infera lot of things, and I may be
wrong about that, and so I don'tget someone's intent.
But if I look at it, and so Idon't get someone's intent, but
if I look at it and go, what?
What is your intent with this?
What are you really trying tosay, or what are you trying to

(01:08:46):
get across?
Or really trying to do?
Um, it helps me well, because Ido that when I'm on these apps,
because it goes, all right,this person has no idea what
their intent is.
They're just, they're just ontransmit, they're just blasting
shit out there and what otherones?
Well, especially if you look atlike a political ad or something
like that, there's a clearintent and a clear message
behind it.
Those are great examples to useto go okay, this is a profile

(01:09:09):
of something that is deliberateand there's an intent behind it
and they're trying to get me tothink, act, behave or whatever
in a certain manner.
So it's very, very, verydeliberate and so it's great to
see that, because it's a greatcomparison to something like
well then, what's this over here?
Just someone spouting offnonsense or speaking off a cough

(01:09:32):
?
Because even when we're doingthis podcast, we at least have
an intent behind an episode.
We may not spell it outexplicitly on purpose.
We might just keep it implicitwith what we're talking about
and let the listener take itwhere they want to, because
there are certain topics andcertain subjects that we do that

(01:09:53):
because we want to make itpersonal to you, and sometimes
it's very clear saying like hey,this is what we believe, this
is why we believe it.
Here's some evidence to supportthat claim.
This is what you can do with it.
And so that intent in beingdeliberate, I think, is more
relevant now than it ever hasbeen, because it helps keep the

(01:10:15):
message clear.
I guess that would be mytakeaway from it too.
Greg, I don't know if you haveanything else, just a few things
.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
Shannon West shout out to Shannon West and his wife
Keep doing the great stuffyou're doing.
Thanks for being a fan.
Same thing, cassie out inMontrose Love, love.
Thanks for being such a fan.
Brian Tila won the watershedfirst and third two different
horses during the rodeo.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
Yeah, he sent some photos.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
And and so Lanny's pissed.
He's right down the hill that'swhat the dog was, uh, barking
at his land.
He's loading up the horses togo rope.
And so lots happened inGunnison over the last couple of
weeks, folks.
And and this attempt offascination shouldn't change the
rest of your world, man,there's a lot of happening.

(01:11:02):
We can come back from anything.
We're resilient.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
We're humans.
Go out and be curious today,find something new.
Yeah, I'm actually veryfascinated and interested in
this sort of moment in time andhow things have shifted rapidly
over the last couple of yearscoming out of COVID and just
different things that arefalling by the wayside.
Finally, that should and thingsthat are now being discussed
and ways that are beingdiscussed are changing.
So I actually look at all thesethings.

(01:11:24):
As you know.
It's well, it's danger andopportunity, right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
I've heard that somewhere there was a good
platform.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
Yeah.
So one other thing to listen to.
There is no whatever podcastplayer you're listening to this
on or watching there actuallyshould be.
There's a little thing on therethat says send us a text
message, you can kind of respondor say something about the
episode.
I can't, we can't responddirectly back to you.
That's for our patreonsubscribers, so so you can
always find out more.

(01:11:52):
There's a link in there too.
It's a support show or sayspatreon and you can.
We do a lot more on there andanswer any questions people have
when you reach out to us.
So there's always that on there.
But there's a little thing forfor feedback.
I love getting feedback fromthis stuff and we we don't get.
You know we.
We get feedback or we getcomments from the people that
have been following us, but,like you know, just the, the
random ones.
I always like to.
I always want to know how thatstuff comes across.

(01:12:14):
So we would appreciate it ifyou, if you reach out there.
Um, shout out there.
Shout out to Richard SimmonsBrought a lot of joy to people's
lives.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Brian, I used to diet .
Richard Simmons came up with acertain diet that he did with
Weight Watchers and some otherpeople.
I used that when I was a copperman the vest was getting a
little tight.
I sweated to the oldies becausethey weren't oldies to me.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
You know what I'm saying.
I sweated to the oldies becausethey weren't oldies to me.
You know what I'm saying.
I like that.
And also famous sex therapist,dr Ruth, died.
I think she's like 95 or 96.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
I hope she died getting railed.
I honestly hope she was stillin the sack.
No, because she was cool too.
She was a pioneer, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
She was a pioneer, talking about things that people
weren't, weren't, weren't,weren't, yeah, weren't, weren't,
uh, weren't weren't talkingabout and and, uh, hey there's a
lot of ways of dying in bed.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
That's a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
Just remember that there's a lot of really shitty
ways of dying in bed bob sagetI'm just saying think about it,
that's going, I think jesus atleast you're not angry anymore.
That's going on your businesscard there's a lot of shitty
ways to die in bed.

Speaker 2 (01:13:26):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
That's going on your tombstone, that's your epitaph
right there, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
I think on that note.

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
Bob Saget thanks everyone for tuning in.
We appreciate it.
There's always.
There's always room for Jello,there's always more, so follow
the links and find out more.
But we appreciate you tuning inand don't forget that training
changes behavior.