The Perception of Time

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Hello everyone and welcome back to The Human Behavior Podcast! After a brief hiatus filled with some exciting projects, I'm thrilled to jump into a topic that's both timeless and timely—the concept of time itself.

In this episode, Greg and I unravel the complexities of how we perceive time and how it shapes our experiences, decisions, and behaviors. Drawing from ancient Greek philosophies, we distinguish between Kronos (quantitative, chronological time) and Kairos (qualitative, experiential time), setting the stage for a deep exploration of how these concepts play out in our daily lives.

During the episode we discuss things like the emotional influence on time perception, how attention affects our perception of time, how memory and aging has an influence on time, and we give some practical examples on how we can manipulate our perception of time in order to give ourselves the gift of time and distance!

So sit back, relax, and get ready to expand your understanding of time—not just as numbers on a clock, but as a profound element that influences every facet of human behavior.

Thank you so much for tuning in! We hope you enjoy the episode. Don’t forget to check out our Patreon channel for additional content and subscriber-only episodes. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider leaving us a review and, more importantly, sharing it with a friend.

Thank you for your time, and remember: Training Changes Behavior!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Human
Behavior Podcast.
After a brief hiatus filled withsome exciting projects, I'm
thrilled to jump into a topicthat's both timeless and timely
the concept of time itself.
In this episode, greg and Iunravel the complexities of how
we perceive time and how itshapes our experiences,
decisions and behaviors.
Drawing from ancient Greekphilosophies, we distinguish
between chronos, or quantitativechronological time, and kairos,

(00:23):
qualitative experiential time,setting the stage for deep
exploration of how theseconcepts play out in our daily
lives.
During the episode, we discussthings like the emotional
influence on time perception,how attention affects our
perception of time, how memoryand aging has an influence on
time, and we give some practicalexamples on how we can
manipulate our perception oftime in order to give ourselves

(00:45):
the gift of time and distance.
So sit back, relax and getready to expand your
understanding of time, not justas numbers on a clock, but as a
profound element that influencesevery facet of human behavior.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
We hope you enjoyed the episode.
Don't forget to check out ourPatreon channel for additional
content and subscriber-onlyepisodes.
If you enjoyed the podcast,please consider leaving us a
review and, more importantly,sharing it with a friend.

(01:07):
Thank you for your time andremember training changes
behavior.
All right, and we're recording.
Hello everyone, and welcomeback to the Human Behavior
Podcast.
We had a bit of a break overthe last couple of weeks.
Just because we had a bit of abreak, um, over the last couple
of weeks just because, uh, wehad a very, very busy schedule

(01:31):
and so we're jumping back intothings.
It just, uh, we've severalprojects all decided to coalesce
at one time.
So, um, we thankfully can bet.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
It's a good problem to have right.
It's a good problem to have.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
But it's uh, thankfully we we can bend the
laws of physics and be in twoplaces at once.
But three is completely out ofthe equation time and time and
our perception of time and howthat really shapes that.
Well, our time is shaped by howwe experience things and

(02:11):
language and memory and allkinds of things, and it's not as
clear as we often think it is,and so there's a bunch of stuff
I want to get into today.
But I'll start it off, greg,kind of like how we talk about
this in class sometimes, and youknow I don't want to turn into
the Matthew McConaughey.
Tom is a flat circle.

(02:32):
You know whatever he says inthat show.
But you know, I always startedoff by talking about throwing it
back to the Greeks and they had, you know, two concepts of time
and they had, uh, kronos andKairos, and so Kronos was, um,
you know the, what we think ofas time.

(02:53):
You know 60 seconds in a minute.
You know, uh, 60 minutes anhour, 24 hours in a day.
You know very, um, you know wayto accurate way to measure time
, right.
But then they also had Kairos,and so kairos was different.
Kairos was kind of yourexperience of time and that's so
.
When we've heard the sayings,you know, man time flew by or
man time was really dragging on,that's sort of like a, a

(03:16):
qualitative measurement of time,where you know, chronos is the
the sort of quantitativemeasurement of time.
And we get into this becauseobviously we talk about the gift
of time and distance and whatthat means and how those
interplay with one another.
But time really really is avery subjective experience that

(03:36):
has to do with that's influenced, our perception types,
influenced by a number offactors that we're going to talk
about today.
That's influenced.
Our perception type isinfluenced by a number of
factors that we're going to talkabout today.
And we have a little bit morecontrol over time than a lot of
people think that we do, or atleast that's my opinion.
Meaning we sometimes jam on theskinny pedal on the right

(03:59):
rather than pressing on that bigone there on the left and sort
of needlessly speed up time, andthat's for a number of
different cognitive factorsinvolved with that, and it
happens mostly unconsciously.
But I want to get into a wholebunch of different topics here
and kind of start about thissort of construct of time, greg.
So I got a bunch of differentthings I want to bring up, but I

(04:21):
want throw to you first um tocomment on my my time is a flat
circle reference I think that'sgreat.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
The one, uh impression that you do better
than anything is matthewmcconaughey, and uh, if that's
only with your abs alone afterhe did all right all right, all
right.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
So, uh, why do you gotta reference that?
You know why I gotta referencethat movie.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
You know why I've got to reference that movie.
You could have been an extra.
So the idea here that I'd liketo just posit is that the reason
that we had such success withour scenarios with ASAT and
Combat Hunter, the reason thatwe tried to start a revolution
and we're going to keep goingwith that, fanning the flames

(05:04):
for AI and VR is that they'resituations where we can control
time, and that is so importantto build a memory-to-motion link
and the repeat performance overtime, and we'll talk about that
as we go along.
But to start look, time isn'twhat we think it is.
So if you're at ground zero,time is giving us a direction to

(05:28):
our memories and our thoughtsand our experiences.
What does that mean?
That means let's think of a GPS.
A GPS is less accurate inBoulder, colorado, than it is in
Maine, because you're 5,280feet above sea level, so they
have to adjust time in Boulder.
And 280 feet above sea level,so they have to adjust time in
Boulder.
And then, all of a sudden, whenwe get, you know, even higher,
let's say, a satellite that'sorbiting the Earth, that's

(05:50):
different.
Then if we were on the face ofthe moon, that's different.
And then if we anticipatedbeing in Mars or outside of our
solar system.
Time changes, gravity messeswith time, different external
factors mess with time, and sowe're consistently thinking that
time is one of those elementsthat we can always count on.
We have this many nanosecondsand this many seconds and this
many minutes, and that screwswith us.

(06:12):
So that human construct to helpus identify in what order
things happen and to normalizeour predictions of the sun
coming up and going down andwhen it's harvest season and
everything else, those were setto reduce our anxiety.
But because we now rely on themtoo heavily, we forget that you
can slow down time, you canmove and influence time, and

(06:35):
even if it's an illusion, timeis an illusion.
So that's okay.
So that sounded like yourMatthew McConaughey, yeah, but
what I'm trying to say is thered and blues on a police car
make us dumber.
The, the, the uh red color of afire truck make us dumber.
Rushing to the sound of gunfirecan get us killed.
Because we don't completelyunderstand our relationship with

(06:58):
time.
And and do we influence time,or does time influence us?

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yeah, and I would say , um, that, uh, that on your
last point, there it's, it'ssort of both.
Right, we influence time andtime influences us.
So let's sort of get into someof the factors that really play
into our perception of timebecause, like, like you even
brought up what we call memory,emotion links, and emotion is a
huge one.
So emotion and time, you know,you know when you're you're

(07:24):
happy, excited, everything'sgoing well, right, that time
flies by.
When you're bored, it justdrags on.
And then, and then especiallyhigh stress situations, you know
, I'm sure people have, uh, ofsome people listening have
experienced that where it's liketime slows down right and so
let's kind of define what wemean by this, because you said,

(07:46):
um, you brought up a number ofgreat points that we can kind of
define within this example.
So, right, we're all having agood time.
Time flies by, you know,because it's a lot of emotions
going, but it's positiveemotions and you know, it gives
this perception, as you know it,just it's just flying right by.
But then I would say theopposite end of that spectrum is
those, you know, when yourlimbic system is basically taken

(08:08):
over, you're in some sort ofsurvival situation or something
that your brain perceives as asurvival situation.
You get this, I this idea thatlike time slows down, and then
I'm sure other people have heardof, like you know, um, you,
where you get, um, visualnarrowing, tunnel vision, that
kind of stuff, and so it hasthis effect as if time slows
down, and what it really comesdown to is it's about attention

(08:32):
and what you're attending to,and you're actually now
basically using 100% of yourbrain and power in that
situation.
So it gives you this effect asif things have slowed down, when
in fact, it gets rid of all theoutside crap that you don't
need.
That's why you get that tunnelvision and auditory exclusion
says don't worry about any ofthat stuff.

(08:53):
This thing right here in frontof you is the scariest thing in
the face of the planet.
Yep, and I'm actually this is.
This is the first time you getto use all of me.
This is like your brain talkingto you, right, exactly, and so
it gives us perception as iftime slows down.
Does that kind of make sense inthe way I'm describing it?

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, but you're on the cusp of something that's
great because you explained it,but some people listening won't
completely understand whatyou're saying.
So the idea that the brainperceives a situation as a
survival situation One, yourbrain is constantly measuring
everything around you insurvival mode.
Your brain has only one mode.

(09:33):
Your brain's mode is it's meagainst everybody else, me
against the world, me againsteverything.
And so that anxiety fluctuation, fight or flight, that's always
the first thing that you'rethinking about.
How is this going to impact me?
How is this going to hurt me,affect me from breeding, eating,
whatever else it is?
So what's happened is, thelonger we've stayed alive, the

(09:54):
less attuned we are to that.
But it's always the firstresponse of humans.
Why is that important?
Because that means that youranxiety level stretches or
compacts time in a manner whichis best for your understanding,
for future events.
So it assumes you're going tosurvive this event and it's

(10:15):
saying what can I learn inprogress for future events?
And you said something that wasreally great that I don't think
everybody understands either.
And look, we're nobody, we'renothing.
We just know one thing, andthat's human behavior.
But I'll tell you this whenyou're talking about now, I'm
finally using 100% of my brain.
There's so many studies andpundits and talk out there about
we're only using so-and-sopercent.

(10:36):
No, you're not If you're awakeand alive and aware you're using
100% of your brain and that'syour available brain right now.
So that may change in a month orin a year or in a thousand
years, but right now you'refunctioning just as highly as
you can.
You're not going to all of asudden have some gosh damn
epiphany at the last moment.
You get what I'm saying.
That's not driven by chemicalslike your adrenal cortex or

(10:58):
endorphins or something that aregoing to make you superhuman.
For the second, I get it, butthat's not going to expand your
capacity for decision making,right?
So so once you understand thosetwo things, that the brain's
always perceiving it as asurvival situation and you only
have a hundred percent andyou're using it.
That's why time slows down, theperception of time slows down in
that moment, and all of asudden you get auditory

(11:19):
exclusion because you don't needit right now.
You're in a fight for your lifeand you know what.
Those things have to take astand and everything is going in
slow motion.
No, it's going at regular speed.
It's just, all of a sudden, allof those sensory perceptions
are so important to your brainthat it's saying, okay, let's
put Tommy over here and I wantto see the muzzle flash there.
And now the car on your TV.

(11:45):
And I understand for thescientists in the room, that's
not an exact representation, butit's a depiction that's close
enough for all humans tounderstand it so we can accept
it.
You know Brian.
To give you an example, rachelRay does these cooking shows.
You know me, I'm a cooking showguy and she always says, okay,

(12:06):
I'm going to make all of themeals for a week on Sunday and
therefore I'm going to save time.
So when I come home, well,you're not saving time, you're
moving time, you're you'readjusting time.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, but that that has to do with with with the
quantity versus time.
Right Like it, it takes justthe amount of time to make you
know four pounds of meatloaf andtwo pounds of meatloaf or
something.
But I get what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
That proves that there's a mathematical quality
and that also reinforcesspace-time.
Okay, you have time.
And then when you add the threedimensions of space, then what
you have is now afour-dimensional continuum and
that can be manipulated.
For example, you said timespeeds up when you're having fun
.
I would throw the corollary awatch pot never boils.

(12:53):
That means that when time islaboriously slow and we all knew
about it because some Greek guycarved that into a gosh-damn
Parthenon pillar and the idea is, those things are real because
the perception is real to us.
So therefore the actual timenever changes.
Time keeps plodding along.
But where we come into it, theangle that we approach it from.

(13:15):
You know, that's a classicargument.
We have been conditioned tothink that time is an arrow.
It starts at the left and itgoes to the right and it's a
continuum.
And then, you know, my joke isalways the tightrope walker.
There's only two ways he'sgoing forward or he's going back
.
What happens is time isirrelevant to what our social
construct is, because it'llcontinue in perpetuity, even if

(13:38):
we don't.
So that's why we have to really, really attend to it.
And when you say, uh, attention, that's a key function of
understanding how time relatesto you in the moment.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah and so so let's get get into that because, uh,
cause, attention is extremelypowerful, even with your, your
example there of you know that,that high stress situation, you
know where it feels like timeslowed down, it's like no, or
even to.
To to the myth that when Idon't know where that came from
or someone you know, does thatyou only use 10 of your brain?
No, your, brain.
Oh my god, I don't know why Idon't know, even know where that

(14:11):
came from.
I gotta look that up, actually,but it is um.
No, you don't it.
Just what it comes down to isyou can only attend to so much
at a given time.
So what it is is, you know, andthis is why they have, like,
everyone talks about the flowstate and all this different
stuff, and all this is payingattention, like, yes, I agree,
you are so distracted that youhave to train yourself to get
better at attending to things inyour environment.

(14:32):
That's absolutely true, becausethere's so much coming at us
and where phones and technologyis Right.
So the idea is is thatattention is is a very integral
part to our perception of time.
So it has to be what we attendto, which is also why, when
things are boring and it'smoving slow, there's not a lot

(14:55):
of brain activity going on right, and it's the opposite,
obviously, with the examples wegave.
But attention is extremelypowerful because that explains
to what you were talking.
were talking about theperception of time, slowing down
those high stress incidents,because it just tunes everything
else out, said, here's the onething you need to focus on right
now right now it does feel likethat and you know um to, to

(15:18):
make sure we don't get too sortof abstract with the, with the
conversation, yep, um, one ofthe important things to
understand is you gave the ideaof okay, time starts on the left
, it goes right, or we have thissingle line I get it out in the
furthest areas of the galaxy,or really really small elements.

(15:40):
That changes a little bit, butit really is important that we
understand that time influencesus and we influence time.
And you can slow time down.
In a sense, you look atdifferent, even like cultural
differences bigger city wherepeople are moving around, moving
fast, versus you go down to thesouth and people talk a little

(16:01):
bit slower and things go alittle bit slower in a small
town.
That's what we're talking about.
It's still the same timelinebut, you know, because of the
amount of information we'retaking in, maybe more versus
less or, uh, the feeling ofbeing busy or something it adds
to it and so it.
This is always interesting tome because I think it's very

(16:21):
hard people for, for us ashumans, to grasp this concept
because we're like, no, I havean eight-hour shift or no, I
have this to do.
I got to go pick up the kids atthree.
It's like, yeah, but threecould be in a little bit, or
that can be a long time from now, depending on what you're doing
and when.
You can try to take thatperspective.
It helps you influence how youperceive time and I think,

(16:44):
therefore, how you use time.
You know, a big thing peopletalk about is like, hey, gonna
have really good time management, and I and I look at it as like
, um, no, I, I, I like havinggood, like personal management,
like I know me and what worksfor me versus the time.
The time can can stretch and bean accordion, but but you know

(17:04):
it's, it's how I operate withinthat space-time.
Does that kind of make sense?

Speaker 2 (17:08):
No, no, let me give you an example of exactly that.
So you know that I had to.
This is ancient history, butyou know that I had to drive
with Sean and then with mybrother, jeff, out to Colorado a
number of times before Shellyand I made the move to Colorado
because I had to get my MichiganLaw uh, michigan law
enforcement officer trainingcouncil certification in
Colorado to continue my lawenforcement stuff.

(17:29):
So Shelly and I were making aseries of of 23 hour trips back
and forth to get that done and,and I remember pulling into, uh,
I think it was Eagle, colorado,uh, to a city market which is,
you know, just a conveniencestore, to grab some waters for
the hotel room and you know, acouple of minor things.

(17:49):
I had them in my cart and I'min line and there's only two
people in line.
That's why I chose the line andthe lady in front of me and the
guy that was doing thecheckouts were droning on about
everything.
Oh, and it's going to be a fastspring, I'll tell you what.
One.
Oh, and it's going to be a fastspring, I'll tell you what.
Yeah, I think that I know.
Yeah, and we have that.
Well, you know when you'repeeling back the frog on that
horse's hoof and I'm sittingthere tapping my foot and

(18:11):
finally I go hey, come the f onwhat's going on here and they're
like oh wait, you know, yourtiming is all wrong on this.
You know, you got that big citymentality.
Then, looking back on thatincident, after having lived in
colorado and I'm the I'm the oldman on the porch with the
rocker and the lemonade.
You know what I'm saying,because what's happened is is
that culture influences yourperception of time, just like a

(18:36):
cognitive attention or or a fearor any of the other things that
that do it.
And what happens is you areeither in on that Okay, you
allow that and you are either inon that Okay, you allow that,
and you go with that flowthere's your flow state or what
happens is you buck that trendand you fight against it.
See that that that goesdirectly to to cop work.

(18:56):
And and I'll give you anexample of that, when you show
up on the scene and the guy'sshooting, he has an agenda and
his timeline is different thanyours.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Different than yours.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
And and that's the key.
So let me go backwards in time.
Uh, funny.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
Oh, here we go.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, exactly which you can, by the way.
But but look, what is thefunction of sleep?
The function of sleep is toallow your brain time to rest.
Okay, Because it does so much.
How many calories per pounddoes your brain expend compared
to the rest of your body?
So we know the brain is ahugely important mechanism for
more than just trivial thingslike blinking and swallowing and

(19:33):
breathing, or we wouldn't havedifferent regions of the brain
that controlled that right?
So the brain is so hugelyimportant and time is one of
those things that humans buildto show us the order of things
and that makes life less anxiousand scary.
And so when we can slow timedown and understand the days and

(19:55):
the seasons and the hours likeBrian, you and I are going to
meet, Well, we can't just name atime.
We have to name a time and aplace.
That's something my brain cangrasp and pick up and turn
around, and that goes toorganization.
So all of those things areabsent when we come sliding up
to a scene and the person's losthis uh flow of time because

(20:16):
they're doing insane orseemingly crazy things right in
front of you and you're rushinginto that.
Look, if we rush to a scene,just to give us more time for
critical thinking.
That would make sense.
And then somebody right now issaying well, you don't have the
time, You've got to shoot orfight, or you do, Well, wait a
minute.
If you're trading your life forthose at the scene and it's not

(20:36):
wartime something's wrong,You're moving too fast.
Of course, in wartime, evenexperts are going to die.
Why?
Because they're dropping bombsand they've got you know all
these other external arousalthings, mines and snipers that
are trying to kill you.
But that's not so in firstresponders, in firemen, in cops,
in school shootings.
You see what I'm saying.

(20:57):
Those things are less obtuse,they're less prone to us missing
cues because we can slow timedown.
And slowing time down is afunction of not moving slowly
through your environment, butsaying wait a minute before I
cross this threshold, time leftto right with the arrow.
I must make certain things sure.

(21:20):
I have to make these thingscertain.
Do I have cover?
Do I have support?
Am I wearing the appropriatearmor?
You know, is there more thanone opponent?
Do you see what I'm saying?
And those are things that we'renaturally, uh, geared to make.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Those are decisions that our brain is already ready.
This is where I I get whatyou're saying, but I would I
would disagree that we naturallymake those things because, um,
because we're so emotionallybased and emotionally responsive
and everything is filteredthrough our limbic system, in a
sense yeah um, you know, we, wedon't react unless something is

(21:57):
emergent and therefore we, weoverreact, or we, we we speed up
time needlessly, right, andbecause, meaning, like I'm
agreeing with that.
So you see, because you broughtup some, some good examples,
like right, like all right,having our timelines are
different.
Everyone knows, like you knowfrom, especially especially like
you know training folks, or youknow operating the middle east,

(22:19):
or you know different cultures,like that you know it's like,
oh yeah, they have inshallahtime.
It's like, well, if allah willsit, that's when I'll be there.
And I would literally be likeno, no, no, pre combat checks go
at 2300.
And it'd be inshallah, like no,inshallah, 2300 you know it's
like right, it's a differenttime yeah, exactly, but that's
what I mean it, that it's nodifferent than exactly the

(22:39):
people people call doper time,where it's like you know, wake
up at the crack of noon, I haveno timeline, I have nowhere to
be, so I figure out my day as Igo and I'm basically like burger
park a lot, burger park a lotat noon and it's 5 30, right
they're they're doing that, thatat bang, thinking right, just
going through their environment.
Yet but, uh, the reason why I Ikind of want to, or what I mean

(23:00):
by that I'll sort of clarifywhen I said I, I don't agree is
that we, we typically wait tillthings are obvious and apparent
and a problem, and then we feelthat we need to react, even
though, like I get what you'resaying, that intuitively, our
brain is trying to predicteverything and it doesn't want
to be surprised things correctlysometimes, or how to analyze

(23:32):
things sometimes, that we aren'ttuned in or not primed for the
right type of recognition inthose areas.
And so, like, like you're saying, like you know you're going
okay, our, our, our thing is ohcrap, drop everything, let's go.
I mean that that's consistentthroughout so many different uh,
uh factors or so many differentthings, we're not really primed
to sit back and go all right,well, let's, let's conduct some

(23:53):
predictive analysis here,because you, because you keep,
exactly because you keep, youkeep talking about you know you
can slow time down, and so Iwant to, I want to explain, I
want you to explain what youmean by that.
But I would almost push backand saying it's, it's a little
bit counterintuitive to howhumans typically operate, right.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
If that makes sense, I would say this.
I would say your misgivings arewell-founded, but they're, in
the sense, wrong because you'reforgetting the cardinal rule.
Not you, meaning humans, do weinfluence time, or time
influences us.
If we're walking down a trailand a mountain lion steps out in

(24:29):
the middle of the trail, or abear, something that's vicious,
that could eat us, our naturalinstinct is to freeze, bend up
back up slowly and raise ourarms up to try to look like
we're bigger than the animalthat's spinal tuned.
That isn't something that wewere taught by our parents and
our grandparents because theysurvived a bear or a mountain

(24:50):
lion attack.
So what happens is that even thescore, god Buddha, vishnu Allah
, gives us certain file foldersthat are partially filled and
hardwired, and one of thosethings is that we have to eat
and we have to breathe.
And the other one is that whenwe're facing danger, okay, get
loud, get big, okay, scream, youknow, then we, we get the, the,
the fight.

(25:11):
Okay, well, I'm gonna fight.
I'm not gonna fight a bearunless the bear grabs onto my
leg right, and then thosedecisions are already
predisposed, they're already inour brain now, if we don't
choose them.
The great thing about it is thebear kills us or the mountain
lion drags us into the cave andeats us, and then we don't have
to worry about adverselyinfluenced the rest of society.

(25:31):
Survivors influence society andthat's where we learn those,
those lessons from, and they'rehard lessons to learn.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
But the great thing is we've had hundreds of
thousands.
Freeze right is sort of ourbiology, giving us the gift of
time and distance.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
That's exactly what it is.
So and let me fight thatargument a little bit further,
brian.
Okay, so you know weapons and alot of people that are
listening to this wouldunderstand the fundamentals of
weapons.
So what is a pistol designedfor?
A pistol is designed to get youto your shotgun.
What's a shotgun designed for?
It's designed to get you toyour rifle, and a rifle is
designed to get you to yoursniper rifle, to the artillery,

(26:18):
and moving back further andfurther.
Why are we moving back?
Because up close and personal,in that interpersonal distance,
anything can happen.
It's a crapshoot.
Even an untrained opponent canstab you or kill you.
So why then, if we have apistol and the training is at 25
meter targets and we makeourselves sure that we can hit
them with multiple rounds, whythen are most of the shootings

(26:39):
at seven yards or less, multiplerounds and they're not fatal?
You get what I'm trying to say,and that's a function of us
fighting our hardwiring.
Our hardwiring is saying giveyourself time and distance, take
that cover.
You know, wait a minute, areyou seeing this incident
correctly?
But our push past that, ourrush to get in there, our
emotional selves, are the onesthat are integral in our undoing

(27:03):
.
And that's what I'm trying tosay.
I'm not disagreeing with youand I see the way that you would
think that you could disagreewith me.
I'm trying to say I'm notdisagreeing with you and I see
the way that you would thinkthat you could disagree with me.
But if you understand, thefundamental underpinnings of all
humans are identical.
Right that that we have those,those warning systems.
The people without the warningsystems are the most vulnerable
in our society and they're theones that are predated upon, uh,
most.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
So would then and this is kind of like just to
just cause it popped in my headwhen you're talking about would
then almost, um, would denial ina sense be sort of the gift of
time and distance, Like in somemanner?

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Denial is the other side of the same coin that you
brought up, because denial makessure that we don't expend
calories, because back when wewere formed we couldn't formed.
We couldn't.
Back when we were formed, therewas an environment that was
equally as dangerous to us, andfinding food was hard, shelter
was hard, building a fire washard, so you didn't want to go

(27:58):
out there half-cocked and expenda bunch of calories on
something that wasn't a danger.
So denial was hey, are weabsolutely sure?
Now what's happened?
Technological advances, thesurety of food and shelter have
made us dumber over time, so nowdenial is exactly the opposite
way.
We actually slow down, ourbrain is trying to learn and we

(28:19):
don't understand that thatprimitive kick in the ass was
designed for a good thing andnow it's become a bad thing.
Now it's in action when weshould be acting right.
So that is again a look at time.
Time is flexible, time movesand and and.
So once we understand that theperception of the person at the
scene that we're about to shootor use less than lethal force on

(28:42):
is different than ours, theythink they have a lot more time.
Do you get what I'm trying tosay?

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, or they're trying to create more time, more
time.
Do you get what I'm trying tosay?
Yeah, or they're trying tocreate more time, yeah exactly
so.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
So we have to be in tune with our place in time, the
distance between us, theirplace in time and all of the
other external arousal factors.
And what do we know?
That when those externalarousal factors raise that, the
number is going to certaincertainly become insurmountable
at some point.
So our best decisions are goingto be made before that inverted

(29:13):
U, and a better decision willbe made if we're at a greater
distance, that we slow time,element down, in other words,
it's not inevitable and that wetake things like cover.
Cover is a gift of time anddistance.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Okay.
So, yeah, I get what you'resaying.
Now, um, do you so?
So let's jump into it, becauseyou keep saying, like all right,
you can slow time down.
Like well, how, how do I slowtime down?
Like what do you?
What do you?
When you say that, what do youmean by that?
Because you're, you're givingobviously to like some high
stress incidents or complexsituations, or like you're

(29:47):
talking about, you know, apolice call where someone's
shooting up a place, orsomething like that.
Yep, so so you're, you're in acertain category with that alone
.
But like I, you know, just tokeep it broad at first, like
what do you mean by like we canslow time down?
Or, or I get to give myself thegift of time and distance.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah.
So camouflage.
Camouflage gives you the giftof time and distance.
So cover scents.
And now let's just go adifferent direction.
Let's talk about hunting.
If I want to hunt something, toeat it, and I use the cover
scent a skunk scent or you knowa urine to fool the animal that

(30:25):
I'm an estrous cycle, so theythink I'm a breeding female
somewhere that's around there.
And camouflage.
If I add just those two thingsand then add something
environmental, like I'm upwindor downwind to something, what
happens is that buys me the giftof time and distance.
So now, when that animal'snatural instinct would have been
to alert before that and avoidthat specific trail, I I've

(30:48):
fooled the perception, I'veincreased my perception and
decreased yours, and that'sacceptable.
So if I am going to give myselfthe gift of time and distance,
let's talk fishing.
I use a chartreuse bait,because that's known to stand
out against the water, and thenI make sure that my bait has a

(31:12):
pattern that's similar to a fishand maybe a little rattle, a
couple of BBs that are in itthat vibrate, that attract the
fish.
So what I'm doing is I'mfooling the fish's senses to say
, hey, this is another fish, tomake them avoid seeing the hook.
And so now they're hooked andthey go shit, I'm using the gift
of time and distance.
So history is full of examples,and I could go on and on in

(31:35):
different things.
The Trojan horse is a gift oftime and distance.
Right, what I did is I fooledyou into allowing me inside of
your border by doing a ruse, andso if we use that efficiently,
brian, then what we can do is wecan buy time and again.
That's a colloquialism.
Uh, in an event and likelihoodchanges, likelihood of events

(31:58):
changes and that's a magic.
I mean to know that you canchange this from a lethal
encounter to less than lethal.
That's amazing To know thatsomething like, uh, uh, heimlich
maneuver is a gift of time anddistance.
Heimlich maneuver is turning acertain death by choking into a
possible save by doing a fewsimple steps.
That's fucking magic, brian.

(32:18):
You see where I'm going.
I'm saying this is true.
Harry Potter, shit.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Yeah, and and there's um, I understand your examples
Cause, like you're well, youeven brought up, like you know,
deception, basically as a formof time and distance or a form
of slowing down time, but it'shard in those moments to do that
right.
So obviously, like you said,the closer I am to that bang in

(32:46):
a sense, or that chaoticsituation, the less time I do
have and I I think, becausethat's objectively true, um,
that actually influences thenhow we act and perceive in those
times.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
Right and it's like we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
That's your point about influencing time and time,
influence and and it's like ourown, I think, our own way of
perceiving these things, or, andand this is why I brought up
you know, even the language weuse influences time and and you
know the last episode we didabout um, you know where we we
talked about the myth of youknow, anything can happen.
It's like, well, if you thinkthat way, if you perceive things

(33:24):
that anything can happen, thenthat's chaos for your brain and
it will never it just it can't.
So you're affecting yourcognitive abilities, so you're
actually speeding up time whenyou're doing that, rather than
slowing time down right Saying,well, okay, well, what I don't
know what this is, but whatisn't it right now?
I mean, these are sort oftheoretical questions you can

(33:45):
sort of ask yourself in themoment because, like you said,
we always want to get in and getsomething done.
All right, hey, let's go dothis.
And sometimes we got to take astep back.
So I understand the fact that Ican stop before I go up there,
pull up the binos and look.
But you brought it back totraining.
Is that we don't really thatinto these actual thinking

(34:08):
points, into how I train?
Those inevitabilities arecreated.
And there was one reason someonehad showed me and they're
asking about it, it was like alaw enforcement traffic stop
thing and it was like you know,they're like, well, you're
talking about time and distanceand look, this guy pulled this
guy over and he came out and andyou know, and immediately came

(34:29):
right up to him.
I was like, okay, stop, youknow, this is.
I asked.
This person was like how manytimes you pulled someone over
there?
Like thousands.
I was like, okay, has anyoneever jumped out of their vehicle
and started walking back to youlike that's the decision point.
It's not that you're already soobvious, and what I mean is
like we don't build in thesethinking points into how we

(34:50):
approach it and to know whatthat is.
So then, therefore, it's veryhard for me to apply it and
obviously we can say training,but um, I I think this stuff is
is conceptually even hard towrap our heads around.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Yeah, and and that doesn't, Brian.
I'm so in agreement with you,but that doesn't mean it's an
excuse.
You see what?

Speaker 1 (35:07):
I'm saying, and that's what we're doing.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
No, we're allowing it to be an excuse, saying well,
it's hard, kiss my ass, it'shard.
So here's the thing.
Let's equate it to somethingquite different.
Let's equate it to cheating onyour spouse or a significant
other.
Okay, why is that fun?
That's not fun because breedingis fun, because you got
somebody at home you could breedwith.
You got your hand, you couldsimulate breeding with.

(35:30):
The reason it's fun is becauseof the novelty, and novelty
makes things exciting again.
And what happens is now, all ofa sudden, the language and I'm
going to do a card and let'ssneak around and there's some
subterfuge.
And man, you're looking at medifferent than my spouse or
significant other does, and thatnone of that's true.
My spouse or significant otherdoes, and that none of that's
true.
What happens is the routinethat word okay of your

(35:53):
relationship has lost its peaksand valleys, it's normalized and
that's up to you to fucking fixthat.
But what happens instead isit's much easier to go across
the street and bag Mrs Howellthat lives in the corner
apartment, right, because that'snovel and somehow feels new and
fresh.
If we could wrap our headsaround that, that we've sanded

(36:16):
down the peaks and valleys, okay.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Okay.
So yeah, I don't know if Idon't know if Mrs Howell would
go for that.
She didn't seem like that kindof lady.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
But oh, she does A couple of drinks of Mrs Howell
is crazy.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
But uh, that kind of lady, but oh, she does a couple
of drinks.
And mrs holland, crazy, but uh,but no, it was so.
So that was actually you're.
You're talking about noveltyversus routine, like and because
, because our but and this goesback to why I kind of had said
that, um, we're not sort ofprimed for this because our
brain is constantly trying tomake things routine.
It's trying to to, to get ridof novelty.
it wants to normalize everything.

(36:50):
So therefore, that's that'sgoing to a huge uh of influence.
It's a huge factor ininfluencing my perception of
time, something that's new ornovel.
Well, that's different.
Now I have more attention, nowI'm attending to that Exactly.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
And then we're something.
This is somehow different thanall these other file folders I
have.
I've normalized all of those,and this may be what Danger or
opportunity and that's exactlytrue.
So your last statements are sopowerful and true they need to
be repeated.
Look, you normalize things.
That doesn't mean it's the waythat things should be.
You normalize things.

(37:26):
That doesn't mean it's the waythat things should be.
That means that that's the waynature makes sure that you don't
expend needless calories andonly jump when there's a real
fright.
Our brain doesn't want to dothat constantly.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah, and that's obviously a huge factor in this
perception.
And then how we describe thosethings and how we articulate
them.
That's where the language comesin.
But so how am I supposed to dothat?
How am I like meaning could andthis is again getting into why
we talk about.
Everything starts with, youknow, sort of cultivating
curiosity, right?
And and and and going, lookinglike.

(38:00):
If you can prime yourself, justto be curious with your
environment, there's a world outthere, there are many worlds
out there that you would behopefully fascinated by, but
that's what we're kind ofgetting at with the gift of time
and distance is, overall, Iwould say, is get rid of, stop

(38:22):
making everything the same, um,and look for novelty in
situations like I.
And that because if I look fornovelty, it's a generalization.
If I look for novelty, it's ageneralization, I don't need to.
There's no specific thing Ineed to look for because it's so
contextually based that I canjust say well, what's the?
This is why again for those ofyou who have been in our
training why we talk aboutincongruent signals Like okay,

(38:44):
hmm, ooh, a piece of candy it'sthe.
Peter Griffin Ooh, a piece ofcandy.
It's the Peter Griffin Ooh, apiece of candy.
You know what I mean If I lookfor that kind of stuff.
That is a way for me to affectmy maybe only a little bit in
certain ones, right, but it'sstill a possibility.

(39:15):
And that's hard, I think again,because I go.
Well, why is this difficult forpeople to really understand?
It's like this double-edgedsword of how we're primed
biologically.
If that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
That's true.
That's absolutely.
The truest thing that everybodyneeds to understand.
Is that hard wearing messeswith us our entire life because
we think we're smarter than theaverage bear and we're just yogi
?
We just got the hat and we gotthe tie on and we're looking for
picnic baskets?

Speaker 1 (39:42):
And when we look at that Shout out, shout out to the
park rangers.
We did a webinar for them.
Do the webinar for you.
Yes, exactly, yes, thank youguys and ladies.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
So look, brian, you talked about incongruence.
So what's incongruence?
Incongruence is a frequency,it's a musical note, it's the
balls at McDonald's in theplayground, and they're
constantly in motion and thatcan be read and it can be felt.
And what's a Doppler effect?
As we're going fast down thattrain track, that siren and that

(40:09):
whistle becomes less powerfulto us because all of a sudden we
have to reassess where it'scoming from.
And what does that mean?
That means that the faster wego, the more incongruencies
we're going to miss.
We're going to miss thatturbulence.
We're not going to see thatturbidity, and that's how we
form anomalies.
Anomalies don't just pop upunless, like we joke in class

(40:31):
about a, if a person's kneelingdown, putting a nose cone in an
rpg and oriented toward yourdirection, you don't have to
wait for three signals, right?
But what happens is at the wideend of the funnel, at the
biggest end of the funnel.
You're searching for novelty,you're searching for nuance,
you're looking to be, uh,interested in cultivating
curiosity.
That's going to lead you to wow.

(40:52):
There's not a lot of frequencyhere, so my baseline isn't very
animated, but look at all ofthis noise over here.
Hmm, that might mean something.
As you approach the noise, yougo wow, this is very incongruent
, because it's not a bandplaying, it's people yelling,
and it's not people yelling fora sporting band playing.
It's people yelling and it'snot people yelling for a
sporting event.
It's people yelling at eachother.

(41:13):
And do you understand whatthat's doing now?
Now the funnel is narrowing inthe time and distance space,
which is two outer rings right,and what we're doing is we're
coming towards anomalousbehavior.
An anomaly is something above orbelow a baseline that needs to
be investigated bing.
Now we have reasonablesuspicion.
Now we're there.
What we've done is we've slowedtime down by managing time, by

(41:35):
naming time.
Rachel Ray didn't save a gosh,damn second.
Rachel Ray moved time around,so it was more economical for
her, which is a math problem,and not all math problems come
out the same when we get furtherand further out into the galaxy
, which shows you that you can,even at your atomic level,

(41:57):
influence the outcome of thesituation by adjusting your
perception of time.
I know that sounds big, butit's not.
It's a very simple construct.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
And it, it.
It is a big concept though, butI get where you're doing an
excellent job of simplifying andexplaining what you mean.
Well, especially when you'retalking about buying time, it's
like you can, because that is alittle bit that is easier for me
to understand.
Right, it's going okay.
I see I'm going to do all ofthis at once, right now, today,

(42:29):
so I don't have to spread it outover the week.
So, yeah, I technically willsave a couple minutes here and
there because of economy ofscale, meaning I'm not starting
up the vehicle and driving, Idon't go to the grocery store,
then come home and then go towhatever other store and then
come home.
I go to all of them while I'mout because that's, that's.
You know, there's, there's alittle bit of of economy of

(42:53):
scale there, sort of in a sense.
But but I, I get what you'resaying in terms of buying time,
but and how do I then primemyself?
In a way, I'm sitting herelistening to this podcast and
you know I got, um, you know,matthew mcconaughey and the
nutty professor on here talkingabout their.
Yeah, you do yeah strikes oftime, uh, but um then, how?

(43:17):
How can I like prime myselfthis?

Speaker 2 (43:19):
I know we're giving examples right and you go to
things like and we were talkingabout training.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
But like I'm listening here, like what, what
do you do to what?
What do?
What do you do, knowing whatyou know?
Greg, in the moment where yougo Cause cause we've done this
before right, where we've hadconversations about business
stuff, and you're like, hey, dowe have to answer that right now
?
And it's like you're right, no,we don't, so let's push that
Right.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
But that's a business thing and it works right.
So let's talk about that in twolayers.
The first layer is an examplethat my great friend, Brian
Marin uses when we're on theroad that sometimes people miss.
Brian points to the thermostaton the wall and says that is

(44:05):
such an important idea becausethat thermostat says 69 degrees
and that 69 degrees is the samein East Timor, as it is in
Mexico City, as it is in KansasCity and therefore that won't
change.
That scale is constant andconsistent.
But how I view that?
69 is too cold for me, 69 istoo warm for me.
That changes how we operate.
Human behavior is too warm forme.

(44:27):
That changes how we operatehuman behavior.
So now I put on a jacket, or Itake off a jacket, or I put on a
summer hat so I don't getsunburned.
So that's what you're talkingabout.
That's the street answer.
The street answer is so what?
And the so what to time is if Ihave more time would I come to
a better decision?
So where can I economize thattime?
If I'm racing to the scene totake cover and evaluate the

(44:49):
situation?
If I'm racing to the scenebecause a person is fighting for
their life and thosenanoseconds count two different
standards.
So what I have to understand iswhat I'm measuring it against.
So the gift of time anddistance on a choking baby, I'm
not going to sit out and bringout the gosh damn funk and
wagnalls and read up on the uhgosh damn circulatory system.

(45:10):
You understand what I'm tryingto say Okay, so so there's
certain things, and so whattraining is supposed to do with
us is training is supposed toexpose us to those, so we better
understand how to manage thempersonally.
So let me go back to somethingI said 40 minutes ago about our
gosh damn scenarios and therevolt we started with Hoberman.
The idea that we wanted tobring and we still want to bring

(45:33):
to AI and VR is the fact thatit's unbelievably cheap to redo
the scenario over and over andover and get a different outcome
.
That needs to be in everysingle scenario that I can go.
Wait, I want to try that again.
Roll tape, we go backwards andwe start over.
Wait, I want to change what Isaid and that changes the
outcomes.

(45:53):
If we can't do that, then thesystem is flawed.
The second part of that is weproved that a number of ways and
a number of studies, and one ofthe most easy ones, that if
anybody anybody's ever met usbrian when they saw our
scenarios, we would do atactical freeze in the scenario
and we'd ask a certain amount ofquestions something you can't
do in real life and then we sayokay, at what point can we

(46:15):
rotate back to where aninfluence outside a word, a
statement, a bullet, a questionyou get what I'm trying to say
would have changed this likelyoutcome?
and and the real answer to thatis everywhere.
But look, they say, you know,when the guy came up with the
bike and he walked off with thebike, that was interesting to me
, go on.
And so we roll the tape backand we replay it, and we replay

(46:36):
it and we replay it.
That's training, brian.
Our brain loves that.
Our brain needs to find Waldo,but it needs to look first,
because if we don't develop thelooking for Waldo, we'll never
understand the necessity to findWaldo.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (46:52):
Yeah, no, and that's what it is.
And you brought up a good pointwith that, meaning, when we're
talking about okay, stop rolltape back, what was that part?
Because we can't physically dothat in real life, you can
mentally.
Right, you can go back and youcan time that in real life.
You can mentally right, you cango back and you can time travel
in a sense, but what we'retalking about is that?

(47:12):
Okay, pause, what was it thatyou saw?
Okay, that's interesting.
Why was it?
Let's go back.
Well, okay, knowing that now,and we put that together, what
decision would you make now?
And that's what your brain loves.
That's what it goes.
Oh, oh, oh, I can change theoutcome.
Oh, okay, I can do this, I caninfluence it.

(47:33):
It really is, and well, but butthat?
But that's what life is, exceptwe don't get to look at.
There's no picture on the frontof the box that we get to
compare it to.
We're just trying to put thepieces together in a seeming, in
a seemingly logical manner, andso, yeah, sometimes it doesn't,
sometimes it doesn't work outright and it's because that's
perception, but but that youknow, um, looking at those

(47:55):
incidents, because you want, ifyou want to do some time travel,
and you can in a sense do thatwith your own memories, right
knowing that you literally areyour own time machine well, time
and, and time is another thingthat influences memory.
So much because you know what?
happens over time, like we startjumbling things together.
It doesn't remember smalldetails, it's the hey, yeah, I

(48:17):
remember, remember when we cameto this restaurant a few years
ago, and then my wife's like,yeah, that wasn't me, buddy you
know it's like oh who, whoops.
Sorry, but you know.
So memory is another big issuewhen it comes to time perception
, how we do it.
But you know, and what you'retalking about in those examples
is like I even try to do thatwith the insurgent at home.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
It's like well, okay, what would happen if you did
that?
Or why did you see that?
Or find that interesting?
Well, most cars I see aroundhere don't have that.
Okay, well, knowing that, whatcould I expect?
And it's sort of that what-ifgame, but it's using actual
artifacts and pieces of evidenceversus just coming up with shit

(49:00):
in our head right.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
Oh, exactly.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
And something in there.
So I like how you describe thatum, and you know, getting
people to think that way istough because, again, I, it's
like we, we, we don't fullyrecognize the um, uh, the, the,
our, our ability to influenceour time and perception of time

(49:24):
and then therefore act within aspace.
Now you'll see people who aremaybe real successful or started
a bunch of companies or didthis, and they'll kind of write
about it, but they write aboutit in a manner that not like
we're talking about it, butthey're talking about the same
thing.
They're going like well, yougot to see it differently and
you have to understand that allof the different influences,

(49:47):
meaning they can't even describewhat they're doing because it's
so sort of implicit and tacitthat they've learned.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, that it's like look, atleast I get the visual of the
ball pit at the McDonald's andhow that influences, because
we've all been in a ball pitbefore.
But for a lot of people, whenthey talk about it and I see
different articles or a bookcome out about something, I'm

(50:07):
like, yeah, he's talking aboutspace, time and how you can
influence it.
People like he's not talkingabout physics.
I was like well, neither am I.
I'm talking about your liferight now.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Like exactly, but that's the piece that brian the
brain.
Look again.
Let me reiterate you're yourown time machine, so you control
how things happen and whichorder they happen in.
Ask Carl Wallenda if he'd liketo have that nanosecond back,
when he underestimated thesituation that he was in, even
though he was a top-trainedathlete.

(50:36):
Right, people look it up.
I'm not going to explain it anydeeper.
I will also say that your brainis like a wonk-evader it goes
upways and downways and sidewaysand frontways and back ways.
So use that to your advantage,because that alone being able to
cycle more quickly throughavailable file folders and pick
one that's closer to the 10 ringis much more important than

(51:00):
flipping tires and climbing arope.
Yes, your physical healthmatters.
Yes, your sleep matters.
We talked about that withbooting the brain and everything
else.
But, brian, if you don't survivethe incident, all of that other
stuff is not.
So those decisions that youmake have to be decisions that
are informed by time and bydistance, and we have to

(51:20):
understand which that we canaccelerate and which we can't.
And historical perspective is agreat teacher.
So we don't have to understandwhich that we can accelerate and
which we can't.
And historical perspective is agreat teacher, so we don't have
to go very far.
This epiphany thing that I getyou know, the only social media
I have is LinkedIn and I thinksome days it makes me dumber
Reading somebody going hey, yougot to read this book.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Look, just because you just now had that epiphany
that the other ones have knownfor a hundred years or 50 years
or something.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
You get what I'm trying to say.
It's like, do me a favor Do youunderstand, we're all out here
working on that same problemevery day and we have been for
decades right.
So the idea behind being able totake any situation and turn it
into an on-duty roll callexample like, for example, we go
back to watch pot never boils.
So I would start off with that,okay.
And then we would say, well,let's put two pots on two

(52:11):
different stoves in twodifferent rooms and let's
measure the results.
Okay, and now in one room wehave the pot boiling on its own,
and the other room we havespectators.
You get where I'm going withthis, right?
And then, lo and behold, guesswhat we happened in three
minutes and 20 seconds later,both pots are boiling.
And guess what?
It was identical time on both.
So is watch pot never boils,true?
And then everybody goes no.

(52:32):
But you say then, what makes ittrue?
And you say emotion.
What do you mean emotion?
Well, memory and emotion link.
While I'm sitting there waitingfor it.
Anticipation's a bitch and thattakes more time, but it really
doesn't take more time.
But the perception of time isequal to my memory of time.
And and so now, what did youjust do it on duty roll call?
You didn't.
Well, first of all, youconfused everybody in the room.

(52:53):
But the second thing is you go,so what?
And so what on that is that youhave more time than you think
you do, because if time is justlike that thermostat on a wall
and it's 69 degrees, what doesthat mean to Brian and what does
that mean to my suspect?
And what does that mean to thequestion hey, can I have a
cigarette before you put thehandcuffs on me?
All of those things are in playand that's what we don't do,

(53:14):
brian.
We don't do training withenough external arousal to make
it almost impossible to manage.
Training must push us to thosecognitive limits where it's
almost impossible for us to makethe right decision and then
come back and say at what pointswere we able to influence this
and how can we use that to ouradvantage in the next encounter

(53:36):
If we don't have time as anelement?
As a matter of fact,situational awareness, the best
part of that definition is thelast part.
What does that mean for future?

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Future state Okay.
So so that's time and distancetoo yeah, um you're we, we
covered a lot and you know I, Idon't know, there's this, uh,
the this, this.
I don't know who said the quote, but it was something like
maybe do you?
The only way to fullyunderstand a theory is to derive

(54:07):
the conclusion yourself orprove it wrong, and this is one
of those things where, um you,you really do have to to try to
derive that conclusion yourself.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Uh cause you're not going to prove it wrong in this
case.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
I know, I know that.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
But uh and, and going out and trying to prove it
wrong, that's your uh.
And going out and trying toprove it wrong, that's your uh
basis.
And you're specifically righton the right track there,
because that's what humansconstantly do Instead of
accepting thing as it is, weconstantly say this can't be so.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Yeah, yes, and part of that is is looking at things
for for what, what they can be,and not just what they are.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
And you know, I things for what they can be and
not just what they are.
And you know I mean that goesinto it.
Anything can happen, brian.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Well, one thing we didn't hit.
We hit on a lot.
One thing we didn't hit is justkind of in general I do want to
throw in here because it'simportant, not just throw it in
here, but age and as we age andthe perception of time changes.
But I think overall, rightmeaning.
Yeah, I know I use this one inclass.
Like you know from your, youthink back to when you're a

(55:12):
little kid, from when you'renine to ten.
You know that those when you're, those birthdays when you're a
kid, or christmas or somethinglike that takes forever to come
around.
It's like, well, between theage of nine and ten, you just
live ten percent of your life,so that that's a significant
part of your life so far.
But then you know, from 49 to50, you just you know it's time
starts speeding up.
You just live two percent ofyour life and you have a ton of
life experience.
So you're like what it'salready.

(55:32):
You know it's my birthday again.
Jesus, wasn't that?

Speaker 2 (55:35):
just a few months ago .

Speaker 1 (55:36):
So but but I and part of that, I think, has to do
with, obviously, as humans, sortof not knowing that one day we
will die, but not knowing whenthat is, hopefully you know.
But but you know what I meanhow I, how, how age and and just
how we look at time, becauseyou we don't, because you look,
you're bringing in all thishistorical perspective and even

(55:57):
down to the physics level andhow long the earth has been here
in the solar system, the galaxy, but that we cannot comprehend
that as humans, like we do notunderstand infinity.
We do not understand, we, youdo, you would not understand the
difference between a millionand a billion.
It's not conceptually possiblefor you to unreally do that.
Like I can't understand morethan about 10 things.

(56:18):
Like you know, once you getabout 10 people in the room,
that's about it for me and I get, you know what I mean it's like
there's at least 10.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
You've just you have absolutely discovered the key
and it's worthy of note.
So let's do two quick thingsthe, the.
The number one thing is so, uh,the sun and the planets
condensed 4.55 billion years agofrom a bunch of interstellar.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Possibly even longer Okay.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
So that's one that we know and we can prove that
number and we can say that.
You know, the fiery beginningwas about 13.8 billion years ago
, so that's a lot longer beforethat with the vaster level of
cosmos.
Why is that important?
Because we can't control that.
Those are things that areoutside of our ken, which means

(57:01):
that we don't need to worryabout them and we can opine
about them and sit and smokeopium in a rocking chair and
talk about them, but it's notgoing to influence, or cigars, I
don't know.
Oh, okay Well did I go too far?
Is that the line now?
So?
So let's tie that into what youjust said about age and time
perception.
Look, things are less novel,they're more routine.
Even just with the passage oftime, our teeth are worn down

(57:22):
more, our muscles are worn down,our hair, the skin.
So what does that mean?
That means that time perceptionchanges over time because we're
not that same person that wewere.
And now, all of a sudden, we'vegot an immense array of file
folders that could come up in adifferent situation and
therefore, you know, seen itbefore, not shocking me now.

(57:43):
And that's what the goal wassupposed to be of training.
Training was supposed to bethat drop on your tongue that
gave you that experience, gaveyou that novelty early on so you
could work with it.
Now what happens is most of thegreat shit that we know is when
we're in our late 60s, early70s and we go, no, we can't do
anything with it, you know.
And and then we get angry aboutit, and that brings up your

(58:05):
death potential, right?

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
And now the impact of fear or boredom or being
without my kids starts toinfluence my perception of time.
I'm here all alone.
Time is lasting forever.
I wish I would just blank right.
So what has to happen again isbecause we sand down those peaks
and valleys.
We have to bring them back.
We have to bring back thoseridges.
We have to bring back thatchallenge.

(58:28):
And if we don't, what's goingto happen is we're going to wind
down.
And when we wind down, guesswhat happens?
Time becomes so slow that wedon't even notice it anymore and
we're dead.
And look, I'm mixing biologicalwith metaphorical.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Yeah, I get it.
The idea is to make it simplerfor people to understand.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
Yeah, I get it.
The idea is to make it simplerfor people to understand.
Big things like 13.8 billionyears don't make sense to me.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
I don't need to worry about them.
It ain't going to change how.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
I save the choking baby, or how I pay more
attention when I'm driving so Idon't ram into the car that's in
front of me.
Give the time and distanceright.
So give the time and distance,Brian.
The reason I talk about that somuch is it's a thing that we
can control in our day-to-daylives.
That'll lessen our anxiety andhas the opportunity to make us
more successful and avoid danger.

(59:12):
Why wouldn't we want to availourselves of that?
Why are we fighting so hardwith AI and VR to get people to
listen to how important andimpactful it can be in a machine
where we can control time?
Because we can't in our lives,you know.
So we'll get there.
It's a lot more fighting, Ifeel.
I feel there's going to be somemore fistfights and knife
fights on that road.
Uh, but sooner or later, I mean, they have to come around to

(59:35):
our way of thinking, becauseit's science and and look, we're
not expert scientists we'retalking about things at the
street level that influence youevery day, that you can control,
and that makes it powerful.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
I think everyone you know listening now is realizing
wow, they weren't kidding whenthey said they have a no drug
testing policy at Arcadia,Cognorante.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Well, Brian, between that and the AIDS, you know
we've got a lot on our plates.
You know what I'm saying NotHIV, but HIV positive, not HIV
negative.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
That wasn't the Matthew McConaughey reference I
was going for.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Well, you hit it right between the headlights.
I'm just telling you DallasBuyers Club, everybody rent the
film.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
All right, we covered a lot of topics about time and
perception, time and timedistance.
So the we, we, we, I, we give alot of examples of the so what
and how you can do it, and theand the big takeaways are is we
have much more control over the.
I think is a powerful conceptand there's a lot you can go to.

(01:00:47):
There's so much more,especially when it comes to time
, perception, memory, recall,everything you can get to do.
We could have gone a hundreddifferent directions with this.
I didn't know where we weregoing to go with it other than I
still don't know where we wentwith it.
I don't know.
Well, I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know where weended up.
I remember where we startedwith Kairos and Kronos and
quantitative and qualitativetime and what that means.

(01:01:10):
But you know, it is something Idid want to discuss because we
haven't done it.
We haven't explicitly had apodcast about time and our
perception of it.
Now it comes up in everythingthat we do because that's it's a
major element.
But if we have any questions,folks, you know the human
behavior podcast at gmailcom.
We also have our Patreon site.

(01:01:30):
You can go and check out there.
We answer everyone's questionson there and have a lot more
information.
But, um, reach out to us.
You know, call bullshit on us.
Whatever you want to do.
Um be more than happy to toanswer any questions.
Um, greg, any any other partingwords here?

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Yeah, keep the call bullshit on us to yourself.
I only want good informationand happiness?
I don't want any of that.
When I'm smoking opium, thelast thing I need is a Debbie
Downer.
So please don't be that.
On the porch with my rockingchair.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Oh my God.
All right, I think that'senough for today.
Thanks everyone so much fortuning in.
Please share the episode withyour friends if you enjoyed it,
and don't forget that trainingchanges behavior.