Threshold For Action

Send us a text

Humans are great at pattern recognition, but we often fail at the analysis portion because we have to rely primarily on subjective interpretations of events. So, this week, we are talking about the difficulty in determining when a situation has met a threshold for action, and we give you some basic takeaways that you can use to determine when it’s time to intervene.

During the episode we break down various real-life scenarios, including a mayor's criminal actions, a chilling family annihilator case, and an ambush on law enforcement, to illustrate how taking the time to identify seemingly subtle cues allows you to see a much clearer picture of an event. 

We explore the often-overlooked shifts in behavior that can lead to catastrophic outcomes, using natural patterns and high-profile cases like Chad Dorman and Misty Roberts as examples. You'll learn about the role of attribution errors and the necessity of adjusting your baselines to maintain accurate situational awareness, particularly in high-stakes environments like law enforcement. 
 
 Finally, we delve into the importance of critical thinking and adaptive strategies in understanding human behavior. By examining historical precedents and concepts like Darwinian evolution and power dynamics, we discuss how to reassess and correct harmful patterns. This episode also emphasizes the significance of time, communication, and seeking feedback to navigate unpredictable situations effectively. 

Thank you so much for tuning in, we hope you enjoy the episode and please check out our Patreon channel where we have a lot more content, as well as subscriber only episodes of the show. If you enjoy the podcast, I would kindly ask that you leave us a review and more importantly, please share it with a friend. Thank you for your time and don’t forget that Training Changes Behavior!

Support the show

Website: https://thehumanbehaviorpodcast.buzzsprout.com/share

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheHumanBehaviorPodcast

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehumanbehaviorpodcast/

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ArcadiaCognerati

More about Greg and Brian: https://arcadiacognerati.com/arcadia-cognerati-leadership-team/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Human Behavior
Podcast.
Humans are great at patternrecognition, but we often fail
at the analysis portion becausewe have to rely primarily on
subjective interpretations ofevents.
So this week we are talkingabout the difficulty in
determining when a situation hasmet a threshold for action, and
we give you some basictakeaways that you can use to
determine when it's time tointervene.
During the episode, we breakdown various real-life scenarios

(00:23):
, including a mayor's criminalactions, a chilling family
annihilator case and an ambushon law enforcement, to
illustrate how taking the timeto identify seemingly subtle
cues allows you to see a muchclearer picture of an event.
We explore the often overlookedshifts in behavior that can
lead to catastrophic outcomes,using natural patterns.
In high-profile cases like ChadDorman and Misty Roberts'
examples, you'll learn about therole of attribution errors and

(00:45):
the necessity of adjusting yourbaselines to maintain accurate
situational awareness,particularly in high-stakes
environments like lawenforcement.
Finally, we delve into theimportance of critical thinking
and adaptive strategies inunderstanding human behavior.
By examining historicalprecedents and concepts like
Darwinian evolution and powerdynamics, we discuss how to
reassess and correct harmfulpatterns.
The episode also emphasizes thesignificance of time,

(01:07):
communication and seekingfeedback to navigate
unpredictable situationseffectively.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
We hope you enjoyed the episodeand please check out our
Patreon channel, where we have alot more content as well as
subscriber-only episodes of theshow.
If you enjoyed the podcast, Iwould kindly ask that you leave
us a review and, moreimportantly, please share with a
friend.
Thank you for your time.
I would kindly ask that youleave us a review and, more
importantly, please share with afriend.
Thank you for your time anddon't forget that training

(01:28):
changes behavior.
All right, good morning, greg,and hello everyone, and thank
you for tuning in to the HumanBehavior Podcast.
Just a quick reminder to ourlisteners we have a Patreon site
.
You can check out all the linksfrom the episode details where
we have all kinds of different,all kinds of more information,
extra episode stuff and thingswe release to our listeners and,
of course, we answer anyquestions on there as well.

(01:50):
But we also have, depending onwhat podcast player you're
listening to, there should be alittle link on there.
It says literally send us atext message.
You can send in a message orresponse or a question right on
there.
It's not something I can reallyaccess live or something on
here, but or, and it doesn'tallow me to respond directly to
you, but at least I get somefeedback.
So I just want to remindeveryone that's on there and to

(02:12):
check that out and also followus on social media.
So for today, greg, we're goingto go over a few topics, and
some of this comes fromconversations we've had and some
of it comes from a lot ofquestions we get from people in
general.
And you know it comes from whensomeone kind of goes well, how
do I know when I'm seeingsomething and it doesn't feel

(02:34):
right?
Maybe, maybe I can't articulateit like you guys, but I know
there's something going on here,or I think there is.
Or how do I tell?
And when do I meet this, thisintervention, or when do I take
action, which?
So it's sort of like I wouldphrase the question is when?
When does it reach, you know, athreshold for action, and so
that's, that's a, that's a toughone, and so the other one is

(02:57):
you know, in general, as humanbeings, we kind of don't know
what to do with information.
Sometimes we're really not goodat it.
So we're really good at thepattern recognition part and not
so great at the analysis part.
Right, and that's the mostimportant part.
That's where things go wrong,because you kind of lack a
fundamental understanding of howwe process and perceive

(03:19):
information and there's alsosort of this temporal element to
everything.
There's a time element witheverything.
So what I kind of wanted to goover today is that you know when
we've covered things where,like what seems normal or
typical and how to describe that, but really when am I supposed

(03:40):
to recognize that there'ssomething that requires some
intervention or there'ssomething that I need to do?
And what do we do withinformation and how do we
categorize it?
So there's a bunch of things inhere that we're going to get to
.
When it comes to that, when wetalk about HBPR and A, the
analysis part and when it sortof meets that threshold, because

(04:01):
, looking back, we use differentcase studies and different
examples.
Some are obvious, some are notobvious.
We take them from all over theplace and all kinds of different
situations to really givepeople understanding and a lot
of times people go well, yeah,that's great.
Looking back you can pick allthis stuff apart.
But that person at the time,how are they supposed to know
that?
And that's a legitimate thingto say.

(04:23):
But there's a lot of them.
You could have intervened, youshould have noticed, and there's
reasons why they didn't.
And there's reasons why theysort of either stepped over
their own sort of intuitivefeeling about something or gut
feeling or instinctual responseto say, oh, it's probably

(04:45):
nothing right, and that happensall the time and you're never
going to have all theinformation.
So, of all these topics I wantto throw to you because I know
you have a few examples to bringup and we can jump into it from
there but the big sort oftakeaways I want to get is
understanding that it can becomplex but it isn't.
Uh, if you look at it correctly, if you look um at at how to

(05:09):
understand some of thesituations you're going to talk
about, that we can then know.
If I'm in that moment, you knowI can go hey, wait a minute,
this is one of those thingsthose guys are talking about, or
this is.
This seems a little bitdifferent.
I need to investigate thisfurther.
Does that kind of make sense,greg?

Speaker 2 (05:24):
No, it's spot on.
And so it's down to what Brianalways tells you folks it's how
to look.
It's not what to look for, it'show to look.
And, for example, right now youshould be looking at my 1983
Greg outfit.
I look like David Byrne.
Watch out, you might get whatyou're after.
Cool babies, I mean, do I notlook like the talking heads?

(05:44):
I just noticed that on thecamera.
So what we're going to do iswe'll break it up into sections,
right?
So the first one, and there'sthree that'll make this
abundantly clear as we talkabout different things.
So the first is a position oftrust issue.
So, just a couple of days agoyou had a 42-year-old, misty
Clinton Roberts, the formermayor of DeRidder, louisiana,

(06:07):
and she resigns just beforeshe's arrested for rape and
contributing to the delinquencyof a minor, Important caper, and
it's a type of caper liketeachers sleeping with students
that we need to get after, thesecond being a family

(06:27):
annihilator.
And and uh, uh, ohio, uh, wehad Chad Dorman last year that
just got sentenced, but inAlabama, just a couple of days
ago, we have Brandon AllenKendrick, uh uh, who uh has five
counts of capital murderagainst him, a mass shooting, uh
, at his grandfather's propertyin rural Alabama.
How does that happen?
How does a family annihilatorand in both of those instances
the doorman and the Kendrick,the shooter's still alive, but

(06:49):
everybody else is dead.
And then the third, and this isto contrast and compare.
This is how we build a baselinefor understanding how to look
at something is an ambushscenario and we just had it in
Lake County, florida, where amaster deputy, harold Howell, I
apologize and two others entereda house during an unknown

(07:12):
trouble call.
He was shot dead, injured andin the hospital right now.
But the important thing aboutthe caper is it was set up as an
ambush, it started as an ambush.
It didn't turn into an ambush,which is an important
differentiation.
So if we just take a look atthose three, brian, and we
compare them, what we've got nowis we've got any time a person

(07:33):
in a position of trust issleeping with a student or, you
know, a Boy Scout or Girl Scoutor somebody in there.
Then we've got the second one,which is any time that we have a
situation where a familyannihilator and everybody looks
back and says, well, we neverknew is what they say at the
beginning, and then they go.
Well, there's all these leakagesignals and then finally the

(07:54):
ambush type scenario wheresomething goes horribly sideways
so quickly, and guess what wealways say well, nobody could
have predicted this, and I don'tthink that's true.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Okay, so one thing real quick, actually two things
real quick.
Are you?
Are you hearing me and is thereaudio?
Okay, or is that just?
I'm hearing you loud and clearstuff on my answer?
Okay, so we're all good, allright.
Sorry, I don't know, this thingkeeps switching on me, but uh,
I'm sure you brought up threeseemingly completely different
situations.

(08:26):
Now you ended it with somethingthat I would agree with a lot
of people.
We have this idea.
Well, how am I supposed to knowthat that's going to happen?
Or we could have neverpredicted it, or that was so
rare.
And I immediately my big thingis to to go hang on.
Um, everything can be predicted.

(08:48):
That doesn't mean you canpredict everything, but
everything can't right, like you, you know what I'm saying, um,
but if I look at it that way,then it allows me to see things
like I can't predict exactlywhere, uh, lightning is going to
strike, but I can predict whenit's likely, when all the
conditions have been met forlightning to occur, and then you

(09:10):
can look out and say, okay, allconditions for lightning are
here and we're likely going toget lightning.
A meteorologist can tell youthat, right, and then you can
say well, what, what is thatlikely going to hit in this area
?
If we're in a big open field,there's a giant metal pole in a
minute.
I well, there's a good spot forit.
I would ask what is the commontheme Out of these three

(09:48):
completely different cases?
Why are you chunking themtogether for this discussion?
I want to start there.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, and I'm going to answer in an unconventional
fashion, but it'll make abundantsense once we get around to it.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, surprise.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
I'm back to the talking heads once we get it out
there.
Yeah, surprise, I'm back to thetalking heads.
So listen to me.
We are too close to situationsto judge them because we get the
pattern recognition, but wefail on the analysis, and this
is what Brian just told youabout.
So even nature continues tonudge us, to tell us things are
about to happen to allow ourpredictive analysis.

(10:24):
For example, dawn and dusk,they repeat.
Why does dawn come up?
Dawn comes up, hey, fresh newday, let's get started, let's
get out there.
Dusk hey, things come out atnight.
We don't want to be out thereand get eaten.
Why do the seasons change?
Okay, well, we have to plantnow, we have to harvest now.
So everything in the world isdesigned to cue us in to certain

(10:46):
things, right.
But when we get too close andwe get busy with non-survival
essential things, then our braingoes well, shit, they don't
need me anymore, I'm going to gorest.
And your brain becomes dormantto these cues, to these
inconsistencies and incongruentclusters of cues that are right
in front of you.
And so what's the same aboutall of them?

(11:07):
Well, let's take a look at Ohio,one of the two that I briefly
discussed about the familyannihilators is Chad Dorman, and
Chad Dorman just got folks lookit up.
It's a big caper.
That happened a year ago.
He just got convicted of anumber of life sentences.
He killed his three sons.
He shot his wife.

(11:27):
She ended up living.
The daughter runs across thestreet.
You all remember it.
And the Claremont Countyprosecutor says this was
lightning from a blue sky.
There was no way we could havepredicted this incident
happening.
Okay, now, when we go back tothe ambush at Lake County,
florida, these were coppers thatwere responding to a call that

(11:49):
never in their panacea ofwildest dreams said hey, wait a
minute, somebody might besetting us up for an ambush,
even though one of the neighborssaid I don't know what's going
on in there, but they kepttrying to lure us into the house
.
And this was seconds before thecoppers made entry to check on
the welfare.
And in the first one I talkedabout, which is the third one

(12:10):
I'm talking about now with MistyRoberts, okay, she's a mayor,
she's 42 years old.
Why in the world nobody in thatposition would ever predate on
a kid and have sex with thechild or lure a child into an
inappropriate relationship.
So what's happening is ourattribution.
Error here is that we say, well, this could never happen, and
therefore we become we blindourselves.

(12:32):
If thine eye offends thee,pluck it out.
We blind ourselves to thepossibility, brian.
And once we do that, whathappens is our baseline becomes
solidified and we don't add theright things or remove the right
things.
People forget, brian, that youhave to take things out of the
baseline when they don't fit,when they're conclusions that

(12:52):
aren't logical and reasonable.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
So this is part of when we get into it's,
extracting normalcy for yourenvironment and internal versus
external baselines.
And what is my known?
What am I comparing this to?
And so what happens over time,especially with, like, your
family annihilators, especiallywith the mayor, the woman in

(13:20):
position of trust, or it's ateacher or whoever predating on
a, on a student or a child, youknow that sort of baseline
shifts, and so we're, we'relooking at it right now, today,
when you know, especially thefamily and I are later, when you
brought up, it's like, okay,well, this guy had, like, was
schizophrenic and heconsistently like stopped taking
his meds and then this happened, and then this happened, and

(13:42):
then this happened.
And so what it becomes is we'reno longer comparing it to
something typical that thebaseline has shifted, and this
is what people talk about, evenjust like normal, what in
psychology is called likehabituation, where you start
doing something and then you getless novelty from it, less
stimulus.
It's like next thing, you knowyou're on social media for 12

(14:03):
hours a day and you didn't evenrealize that until you had some
thing show you.
You know what I'm saying.
So that can happen over time andso that becomes very difficult
to do and because we simplifythings, like I was having a
discussion with a friend onetime and they're like kind of
just trying to poke and not pokeand pry, like just literally
just try to learn more about how, how we see the world, and he's

(14:26):
like, so you're telling me thatyou know, guy, that just uh,
the bartender just served us abeer could be a serial killer.
I go, it's highly unlikely, uh,but yeah, it's completely
possible.
He's like whoa, they're sofriendly.
And, as I go, everything you'reattributing to means nothing.
It means this in oneinteraction, uh, that lasted 90
seconds and you're trying tofigure out something from that.

(14:46):
You can't that you.
You need to have time and youneed to have observation, you
need to to look at thingsexactly and so, and the reason
why I bring that up is becausebecause we, uh, because that
baseline changes over time andit's slow, steady changes we're
less likely to notice it andthat becomes, becomes why it's
sort of this, this seeminglybolt out of the blue.

(15:07):
It's like, well, I had no ideathat could happen here.
It's like, well, it can, it canhappen anywhere.
It's unlikely, but it can, itcan and and so that's how, how
am I, how, how do we, how do weget past that?
Right, how do I make thoseinitial like cause the?
So I take those initial likebecause the and I brought up the
temporal element, the timeelement and all of this, but
like for the law enforcement one, the one example you gave about

(15:28):
the ambush, it's like you knowwhat are they supposed to do.
They just got there you knowwhat I'm saying.
Like they had no history aboutthis family.
Let's unpack that.
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, so let me take you on a history tour.
It was 1997 and I was having adiscussion.
I was a supervisor as a copper,but a road supervisor, not
stuck up in a coop all day and Iwas talking to a detective that
I admired and respected upuntil this conversation and this

(15:57):
just lost a couple of steps.
It didn't lose me forever, butit was about Mary Kay Letourneau
, and Mary Kay Letourneau is a34-year-old teacher who is
banging a 12-year-old student.
Now, that wasn't the part thatwe were talking about.
We were talking about that whenpoor Mary Kay Letourneau gets
let out of prison on a probationparole-style situation, just a

(16:20):
few months after going to jailshe's going to learn her lesson,
she's caught by road cops in acar down the road with the same
student.
She ended up Brian having twokids with them, and I don't want
to speak ill of the dead,because she died of some
horrible shit very recently,very young.
But the idea was that, listen,she was given a number of

(16:41):
chances and she could not keepaway and she went back to it.
Do you honestly think and thisis what the argument was over Do
you honestly think that she wasmaking out and and making
meetings and this was beforetexting and stuff, so it had to
be notes and written things andand clandestine meetings.
Do you honestly think thatnobody noticed a difference in

(17:02):
this 12 year old?
Are you honestly telling methat Mary Kay Letourneau's
husband and her friends andfamily didn't notice the change?
Today there was an articleabout hey, let's outlaw black
clothing in schools becauseblack is a depressing color and
that's going to change schoolshooters and people from
committing suicide.
How about we look at thescience here for five minutes.

(17:24):
Do you get what I'm saying?
And do a test?
Letourneau gave cues, brian, tolook at those cops that were
newly on the street andsomebody's going to go.
Hey, listen, you're talkingabout something.
With the memory of these cops,you better tread on thin ice.
No, I won't tread on thin ice.
At 9.03 pm, the copper, themaster deputy on the scene, had
so much information that shitwas going on in that house that

(17:47):
he disregarded everything elseand, for the safety of that
family, he made entry.
The minute that he crosses thethreshold of the house, his
body-worn camera picks up theframes of an adult male behind
the couch with a rifle,ambushing him, that starts to
shoot, and the two daughters arein there shooting as well.
So what happens is he made thedecision I have to, based on all

(18:10):
the information that's incomingright now, make entry on this
house.
Why?
Because the nutty woman that hemet outside was given Bible
phrases and just odd statements.
They handcuffed her and she'ssupposed to be the reporting
party and the call didn't add up.
And, brian, you remember Seanalways talking about the holes
in the Swiss cheese, lining up.
Listen, when the cues thatyou're getting don't add up,

(18:32):
your instincts are telling yourush in there.
We need to save everybody, butwhat you have to do is for
survival, you have to giveyourself the gift of time and
distance.
You have to say this call is sodifferent that I have to give
the kaleidoscope another turnand imagine what might be
happening.
So I have to look.
In engineering they talk aboutbaselining and when you change a

(18:57):
baseline and they said whenevera significant change occurs, a
project may be re-baselined andthis means issuing a new,
updated baseline to measureagainst.
If those coppers in Floridawould have done that, and
everybody's going oh, don'tsecond guess, don't armchair.
Hey, kiss my ass.
I was a copper, been on a tonof shootings, I got scar tissue,
but I'm not dead.
And I'm not dead because I usedthe gift of time and distance.

(19:18):
I'm not saying these cops hadthat choice.
I'm saying that if that was achoice and they had availed
themselves of it.
Look at the situation here.
It's a one in a zillionlightning strike from Mars,
brian.
Nobody in a right mind wouldhave said this family conspired
to create this call to lure theneighbors.

(19:39):
This was apocalyptic cult shit,and so it was so outside of the
realm of what this masterdeputy had seen that he fell for
it.
We're all victims of fallingfor it, and so it was so outside
of the realm of what thismaster deputy had seen that he
fell for it.
We're all victims of fallingfor it.
And you know what?
He's an honored veteran mastercopper that made a mistake and
this mistake cost him his life.
So let's not turn it into a badthing.
Let's turn it into a good thingso we can learn Whenever the

(20:00):
cues add up and tell you thismakes no sense, you've got to
give yourself extra time oryou're on the wrong baseline.
That's my.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
That I see what you're saying with your
explanation here, and you knowwe keep reiterating what
seemingly can be sound likesimple phrases or simple
principles to use or simple waysof looking at things.
And you know it soundsintuitive.

(20:34):
It's like, okay, yeah, thatmakes sense.
I mean, all kinds of peopletalk about, yeah, you got to
create some distance, you needmore time, you know, but we
don't actually get into how todo that and this doesn't.
You know, a lot of people don'tget into how to do that because
they don't technically know.
Right, it sounds like we can dothat Technically.
No, it sounds like we can dothat.
It sounds intuitive.
Anyone we brief or talk to oranything, they always go well,

(20:56):
shit, that makes a lot of senseto me.
I see where you're getting at,but actually doing it is very
different.
That's why you need training.

(21:17):
You're exactly right, it takestime and it takes practice.
And it also because it'sseemingly counterintuitive to
how humans think in thesesituations, especially
decision-making in extremists,or when there's some time
constraint, or when there's somestress, or when there's some
sort of a threat likelihood.
You know, whatever thesituation is, it sort of muddies
the waters and it becomesseemingly more difficult to make

(21:38):
a decision or take that step,and so it never seems to meet
that threshold for action.
Yes, so if I want to implementthis or if I'm looking at
something, that's from what Igather, a lot of times a lot of
our questions that we get frompeople fall under that.
It's like, when is when, does itmeet the threshold for action?

(22:00):
Because it's easy in some waysto take it on a case by case
basis, which is why, then,people that you get into the,
when you see this indicator, itmeans that it's like, well, no,
it doesn't.
With all of these, you know, uh, if all of these circumstances
are here, then, yes, it does,but but if you change one of
them, it change, you can changethe outcome.
But when, when, how do I know,like, what's a good measurement?

(22:23):
If I'm just listening to thispodcast and I'm going, well,
this is kind of interesting toto get to that threshold for
action, right, and becausethat's that's really the, the,
the determined by the situationat hand, it's determined by the
environment, the elements in theenvironment, the, all of the
contributing factors in thesituation.

(22:43):
Because if, if I oversimplify it, I'll miss things, but if I
kind of overcomplicate things.
I'm never going to know how tolook for things, I'm never going
to know when to look for things, I'm never going to know when
it meets that threshold foraction.
So it's sort of like I'm caughtup in this sort of cognitive
dilemma, in a sense, wherethere's a time element I'm here,

(23:05):
I got called here to dosomething, or I'm taking a look
at something.
It's just a snapshot in timeand I got to make decisions
quickly and I think, becausepeople think that way, that's
actually what causes these a lotof times, right?
So you're kind of saying likewe have more time than we think
or we're not looking at time inthe correct manner.
Is that kind of what-?

Speaker 2 (23:27):
You're exactly right on those points, and I would
give you the additional point ofsaying it's more of a Mobius
loop in my mind.
So, uh, uh, uh, meaning thatcertain things become inevitable
when you press temporal and youlack distance.
So so the idea there is you're,uh, accelerating the situation

(23:48):
because you think the situationis going to have a good outcome.
If you accelerate it and likeI'll give you an example that
sounds so odd because you knowI'm talking about the cop one,
but let's apply that to Mary KayLetourneau and Misty Clanton
Roberts If they would have takena knee and said okay, I'm 42
and the mayor of this town, thiskid's 13 or 15 or 17.

(24:08):
I'm feeding him drinks and I'mgoing to blow him, or whatever
the situation was and I'mparaphrasing folks, don't get me
tied down to gosh damn detailsyou would have said wait a
minute.
Ok, this is inappropriate, thisis not the relationship, this
is not what relationships arefounded on.
And, brian, if you were to lookfor baseline comparisons, you
would have said I know nobody inmy circle of friends nobody,

(24:29):
that's another mayor decided toquit and have kids with a
15-year-old.
Okay, you understand, it justdoesn't fit.
So it's the round, peg squarehole thing.
So what's a baseline?
A baseline is the measurementof a condition, of an
environment, of a situation thatis already in progress, and
what we do is we take a snapshotof that at that point, at that

(24:53):
time and at that place.
And what we want to do is wewant to use that comparison over
time to observe changes.
And changes can rise to thelevel of an anomaly, when, when
it surprises us, when it's there, and it shouldn't be, when it's
missing and we should see it,and those type of things get me
to the kaleidoscope reference.
The kaleidoscope is a constantlychanging pattern or a sequence

(25:17):
of objects that you see in anenvironment.
But the idea is, if you watchlong enough and if you turn
enough times, you're going toget the same pattern.
But the idea is that this tubecontaining the mirrors and the
pieces of colored glass andeverything seems too much
information.
This is why large models ofinformation and data can work
for us, but they have to bestudied.

(25:37):
And this goes to my point ofthe training.
You're talking about peoplethat go yeah, but give me three
cues that I can look for all thetime.
Come to the training and we'llgive you a thousand clues and
guess what?
You can pick the ones that youwant to make the three, and
they'll last your whole life.
Everybody wants that list andthey want to put it on their
visor.
But, brian, it just doesn'twork that way.
So when we look at thekaleidoscope, we have to pick it

(25:58):
up and we have to start turningit, and if the patterns seem
random and nothing's fittingtogether, right, we have to
compare that.
And all the other times Iplayed with that kaleidoscope I
saw ever-changing patterns.
This time all the blues aresticking together and that
doesn't make sense.
If they would have done that inFlorida, if they would have
done that in Alabama, if theywould have done that with the
serial killers or the familyannihilators I apologize, we

(26:20):
would not have the situationwhen your baseline doesn't seem
to fit for the situation.
You have to change your OP oryou have to change your baseline
.
So, in other words, you have tochange the method of the
information processing thatyou're getting, because
something's wrong there.
You're not processing theinformation correctly, or you
have to change the baseline.
What you're measuring thatinformation against.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
So you said something that was interesting earlier
where you said you know natureand I'm paraphrasing I think you
said it's like this, but it's anature reminds us of the
important things you talk aboutdusk and dawn.
Can you explain that a littlebit further?
Like what you mean by that thatyou know nature?
You know nature reminds us ofimportant things?

Speaker 2 (27:09):
So dawn is obviously an important thing.
To get up, to move around, toestablish whatever it is
patterns that are going to helpyou live a long and healthy life
.
Why?
Because it's good for the earth, it's good for procreation,
it's good for families and clans.
Your brain's chemistry is setup to support that.
We have circadian rhythms thatget us up and put us to sleep,

(27:31):
and if we work too much onmidnights, we don't get the
allotted amount of rest.
Okay.
So all of those prompts arelined up to lead a prudent
person to believe that it'simportant to get up in the
morning and get out.
A rooster crows in the morning.
Okay, a rooster is audiblysignificant to us and wakes us
up.
Now somebody's going to go.

(27:52):
Oh, that's all random shit thatyou're putting together, is it?
I'm saying it's not, so proveme wrong.
There's, the thing is go outthere and take a look at all of
those things that you have.
Look, it's healthy to do thisin the morning, but it's not
healthy to do that and later inthe day.
What are the three things thatyou want to do?
Three, two, one from our buddyquorum.

(28:12):
Three hours before, don't eatanything.
Two hours before.
Don't drink anything.
One hour before.
Don't watch any television andyou'll get good sleep.
Why?
Because sleep is essential tous.
So when it gets dark, that'sour message to our brain.
You got to shut down for awhile because we've been running
at capacity all day long.
And those hints come in such arepeated fashion and are

(28:35):
reinforced by our brain'schemistry and our neural wiring
that we have to pay attention tothem.
There, literally, is a goalbehind all these things.
Did you happen to see theOlympics at all and see the guy
that set the record for the wallclimb?
And it looked like a spidergoing across the floor.
It didn't even look real.
So imagine the person that hasto beat him.

(28:56):
What are you up against?
Well, but we know that there'scertain limits.
What I'm bringing up is there'scertain limits of human
performance.
We're going to get to athreshold where we, just without
chemicals or, you know,changing some factors in our
environment, we're not going tobe able to exceed those.
But simple things in ourenvironment, like the change of
seasons, like the calm beforethe storm, those are God, buddha

(29:21):
, vishnu Allah allows us toprocess those and predict, so we
can take cover, so we can gethydrated, the symbols or the
signals that your body gives offfor dehydration.
You think that's accidental.
There's these cues in ourenvironment.
So when those cues are so obtuse, when those cues don't fit any

(29:41):
pattern, so let me put it thisway before I finish that
sentence, I would say interviewevery copper that works in and
around Lake County.
Give them what this call waslike at that moment, where the
lady's running around, she'sdoing the Bible verses, she
gives a false name and says thatshe's a prophet and all these
other things, and there's noisesin the house and the neighbor
comes up and goes.

(30:01):
I don't know what's going on,but they tried to lure me in.
And then louder noises to lureyou in.
They've never had a situationlike that before.
So this novel situation.
You know that how do we functionin situations we don't have a
file folder for we're morelikely to get killed or
seriously injured.
In those there's not as muchopportunity, there's much more

(30:25):
danger.
So we got to reestablish thebaseline.
That's the time to take a kneeand go.
Something is wrong here.
Before we step across thatthreshold and you're saying, yes
, but people may die.
Yeah, but it shouldn't alwaysbe the coppers and first
responders dying, should it?
If you continue down that roadto that IED likely position and
you see indicators that wouldgive you a reasonable suspicion

(30:47):
that IED ambush is in place andyou, low, crawl up and still
poke it with your knife, who'sat fault?
You know, and that's hard tosay.
People hate me for making thosecomparisons, but I'm not
talking about a person and theirfailure.
I'm talking about how youshould use that information and
process it forward.
That's the essence of situationawareness.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Well, and that's the part that goes back to, we're
not great at analysis, we'regreat at pattern recognition.
So people talk about thesituational awareness, you know,
understanding the, the elementsin your environment, perceiving
them, understanding them,knowing what they mean and how
they fit into place.
But what we don't focus on isthen okay, well, that the third

(31:32):
element of that is projectingthat forward, right.
Going okay knowing what I knownow, okay, what can I likely
expect next?
What is likely to occur next?
What's the most dangerous thing?
Am I gathering any evidence tosupport you know what, where
this is going, or if this iswhat I expect, or you know,

(31:55):
let's say this is a benignsituation.
If this is I'm talking to themayor and you know she's not I
don't think she is.
You know, uh, you knowmolesting a kid, right?
Well, what?
What else should I expect tosee then, if she's not doing
that, and then what should Iexpect to see if she is doing
that?
And it's sort of that simpleframework of going.

(32:15):
I'm going to attempt to gatherevidence that to both prove or
disprove my hypothesis here, andthen I can test that.
As it goes, I can send that outinto the world and see what
comes back.
Right, I can gather moreartifacts and evidence.
It's just long as I'm weighingthis and that projection part
can be seemingly difficultbecause it's like our own

(32:39):
training, our own cognitiveprocesses get in the way of us
arriving at a reasonableconclusion or doing really,
really good analysis.
I mean, that's the thing islike everyone's an analyst,
right, just go on social mediaor you know anywhere and
everyone's going to give youtheir opinion, their analysis on
something, but rarely is itever good and rarely are people
ever consistently good at theiranalysis.

(33:02):
Right, because you have to, youneed to have a process or a
framework.
So what it sounds like, becausethis is what you're saying and
this is why I'm bringing thispart up, because you brought up
the nature of mind is one of theimportant things, but nature
also kind of fucks with me,right, it kind of wants me to
take it, because not everybodycan survive it.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
So it's trying to make me take the simplest route
or the easiest answer, or thepath of least resistance.
It's forcing me, it'scontinually forcing me down that
road, and that's what I've donemy whole life.
And you know what, greg, I'mstill.
I'm alive right now.
So why would this be anydifferent?
And and so that's that's alwaysto me what it would, what I

(33:45):
would describe as sort of the,the, the, the area, the problem,
the sort of the crux of theproblem there is going well, I'm
set up to think and act and dothings this way.
But but what you're talkingabout, greg, and what we talked
about, it's seemingly like well,that's counterintuitive.
I have to spend, I have to burnextra calories, I have to.
So how am I supposed to do thisif?

(34:07):
If it's not, let's go there.
Yeah, so let's explain.
Let's go there it's seeminglyat a topical level right now.
Just what I I want to say isthat is that it's like you know,
it's almost like you're you're.
Why are you talking about itthis way?
Why are you teaching this?
Why are you going through thisprocess?
Because if it'scounterintuitive to how humans
operate, then it's really nevergoing to be successful.
I'm never going to fully graspit, which isn't true, but but

(34:29):
you see, topically what I'mgetting at no, no, no, I'd like
you to sort of address that.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
You're spot on.
What the point is is thatcomplacency will lie to you.
Okay, laziness is much easierthan going to the gym and
working out and eating, right.
So we fall for those traps andthen we tell everybody around us
well, it's nature.
Now, that's not nature.

(34:53):
Nature is all about survival,survival of the fittest and the
fattest and the.
You know this and that and allthose other things, but what we
do is we have a fundamentalattribution error where we say
I'm just fine, I fit in, great,what's it going to hurt me?
And the more we do that, thatpattern reinforces itself, even

(35:15):
if it's wrong.
Hey, listen, smoking is notgoing to take but a couple of
days off in my life and I reallyenjoy smoking.
Those lies that our brain tellsus are reinforced with
chemistry that we provide.
Our brain doesn't provide it.
Our brain doesn't yell and gohey, go back and sleep in the
cave.
What it does is it reinforcesus to go back and sleep in the
cave when we choose that option.
Do you get what I'm trying tosay?
So we have to knowingly go intothat dark cave and lay down on

(35:39):
the pillow and the brain goeshey, this is wonderful.
And now our cortisol anddopamine start messing with us.
So I'll give you an example ofexactly that that you can
understand in the Misty ClantonRoberts caper.
So I want you to understandeverybody that these are merely
allegations that this formermayor had sexual relations with
the juvenile.
She hasn't been convicted ofanything.
They're conducting aninvestigation.

(35:59):
Yes, she's been arrested.
Okay, but here's the thing.
I would guarantee that whatBrian said is absolutely correct
.
What happened is she had sexualintercourse with a juvenile
victim while she was mayor, andthere's a bunch of things wrong
with that, but the idea is thatI don't think that she did it
because she's a pedophile.
I think what happens is thatabusers like her and Mary Kay

(36:23):
Letourneau- what you have.
There is you have somebody thatwho, early in their life, they
got their emotional needs metthrough sexual behavior and
there was something lacking.
They're going through a divorceor they had a bad experience
with a man or a woman or theirsignificant other, and now, all
of a sudden, they get thisposition of trust which brings
with it power and authority.
And now, all of a sudden, whathappens is I'm cool, I'm in

(36:47):
charge.
I see this person that backwhen I was younger I certainly
would have banged.
And then what happens is nowthe inappropriate relationship
doesn't start with the sex, itstarts with.
Now I'm going to cross aboundary and I'm going to talk
about my personal life with thisjuvenile, and then that
person's going to share some oftheir stuff, and then I'm going
to share a text, and then it'sgoing to continue to get

(37:09):
inappropriate because now it'sgoing to be kind of a date where
we meet somewhere.
Look, if you're doing itclandestinely and you're doing
it out of the public purview,it's likely wrong.
And so what happens is allthose environmental triggers and
the nature of life telling usthis is somehow wrong.
Guys used to call it and,pardon the vernacular, it's a

(37:29):
street term.
Guys used to call it the guiltydick syndrome.
They'd come to me and they'd gohey, I'm cheating on my old
lady, but I can't get anerection and I go.
That's the guilty dick syndrome.
What's happening is your brainand your body are telling you
this is wrong.
You've got a significant other.
Go home to whoever that personis.
So what happened with Misty?
It didn't happen all at once.
She wasn't in love with thisperson for 25 years and decided

(37:50):
to become a mayor and as soon asthey grew up.
So the same thing with theambush Little clues were missed.
And what happens is when westep back and we look at it have
you ever seen pointillism?
Have you ever seen a paintingby Seurat?
When you get really close to it, hell, ferris Bueller, a
perfect example.
When you get really close to it, you can't tell what it is.

(38:11):
But the further you step back,all of a sudden things come into
view.
And again, I'm not bagging onLake County.
They did their best, they'reheroes.
What a great job.
And they did it for the rightreasons to save lives.
But sometimes I read the otherday a copper that died around
here, and he died almost 80years ago and nobody knows his
name anymore.
And how did he die?

(38:31):
On the way to his house fromshopping, he was driving around
in a vehicle and he saw what hethought was a drunk driver.
He said look, this guy's so badhe's going to kill somebody.

(38:53):
So, with his family in the car,he makes the traffic stop,
walks up and the guy drives off,with him hanging onto the car
and he dies right in front ofhis family.
That's again a hero, brian.
But what would conventionalwisdom tell us in that situation
?
The danger, just like withRoberts, is raising, and if we
allow the danger to keep raisingand we don't do anything about
it, that level, that pot, isgoing to boil over, and so what
we have to do is we have to takethose things off the heat and
make an entry into that house.
Seemed like the right thing atthe time and upon retrospect

(39:15):
we'd see it wasn't the rightthing.
And let's go to Kendrick.
Kendrick is the Alabama guy,the schizophrenic that you were
talking about earlier.
Five counts of capital murder.
Every single person said that hehad become more and more
deranged, not only over theyears, but in the few days
before he shot him all dead, andpeople were commenting on that

(39:36):
let's go back to Ohio with ChadDorman.
Chad Dorman's wife said youknow, it was a setup.
All of a sudden he startedtalking about the three boys and
how much he loved them and howit's going to be hard to kill
one of the boys, more so thanthe other two, and he kept
luring them into the house andthen to the back bedroom.
Then he went to the closet andgot the gun and the whole time
she said it's like watching amovie.

(39:56):
She knew what was going tohappen and she couldn't.
Well, I'm telling you she's notthe only one.
I'm telling you the family thatstaged that ambush in Lake
County gave up signals and theneighbors knew and their friends
knew and there was leakage atschool.
I'm saying with Dorman andKendrick I'm saying there was
leakage all over the place.
And I'm saying that with MaryKay Letourneau and Missy Roberts
there was leakage.

(40:17):
Now you're going to say, becauseBrian likes taking devil's
advocate, you're going to saysometimes, hey, listen, well,
these are all linked to mentalillness.
Yeah, we all have a version ofmental illness there somewhere.
What happens is that we tend towant to go for immediate
gratification now rather thanwaiting for things, and that's
how we can get into the trickbag.
And the same thing with theambush.

(40:38):
The woman lived through theambush and she's in jail now, so
hopefully she'll talk more.
But Kendrick and Dorman, theyboth lived through the ambushes
as well, and we have to look outfor that, brian, because
trading our lives for somebodyelse's lives might seem noble,
but in many instances it'sunnecessary.
Now, some things areunpredictable.

(40:59):
Today I walk out of my frontdoor, I get hit by an asteroid.
I'm going across the street anda guy's looking down at his GPS
and he clipped me Right.
I mean, come on.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
That that's yeah, and that that that's the thing.
It's like the, the, the, theasteroid is, a is a perfect
example.
It's like, well, no,technically, we that that could
have, that that's tracked andthey're going to know exactly
where it's going to impact.
Now, that information might nothave gotten to you in time, but

(41:38):
there's, there's.
Probably I may have disregardedit, right, exactly, yeah, and
meaning, um, having the sort ofmindset of everything is
predictable helps, um, it helpsme see things clearer.
Right, it helps me look at thisand not feel this helpless,
like, well, you know, I got tobe prepared because you know
this could happen anytime,anyplace.
It's like, well, no, if I lookat, everything is is, um, you
know, like you said, naturereminds us of the important
things.
There's environmentalindicators that I can look for

(41:59):
and feel and sense andunderstand intuitively as a
human or instinctually as ahuman, and then the more you
know, or practice, or or, or,the better I get at it.
It becomes more intuitive, um,but some of this is uh, kind of
like the, the language we use totalk about it in societally,
and how we justify things or howwe make ourselves feel better.

(42:20):
You know, like you, you broughtup the mental health thing.
It's like, okay, well, that's,there's no real.
Everyone has something that iscausing some turbidity or
cognitive dissonance in theirlife.
There's something that you'vedealt with or haven't dealt with
or deal with and is an ongoingbase.
Everyone has something thataffects the way they act and

(42:44):
behave, and so sometimes thelanguage can kind of it, it it
isn't used in a in a very, um,constructive manner to really
understand these things and like, well, like, even said, like
the, the, you know, the darwinand in the view of darwinian
view of biology, and and and uhand human evolution, and it's
like, oh, it's survival of theand and and uh and human

(43:05):
evolution.
And it's like, oh, it'ssurvival of the fittest.
And what it really meant was,you know, species are just
attempting to survive.
So, so, not that, but that'snot at an individual level,
that's at a species level andit's not.
When people think survival ofthe fittest, they think, okay,
the biggest, baddest, strongestor whatever you know, and it's

(43:27):
like, no, no, it's, it's thefittest is like who can adapt
the best, and that adaptationcan come in a number of
different ways.
Maybe your species needs toliterally get physically
stronger or bigger, or maybe itjust needs to get smarter and
needs to grow and develop moreintellectual capability,
whatever it is.
And we get down to thisindividual level and then it's

(43:50):
not as clear because you're partof a much, much larger system.
So when you look at things likethat, it's like okay, but
that's as a species as a whole,so it's not really like I can
just be stronger, better, fasterthan everyone out there and
I'll be good.
It's like no, no, no, that'snot possible.
And so the hard you know doseof reality that sort of nature

(44:12):
can play in biology and you knowphysics can play on you is
there's parameters in there.
There's certain things that youcannot control, and I think
people believe that one of thosethings that they cannot control
is time.
And I disagree, right, Becauseone you can well, language is a

(44:35):
perfect example is because youknow time is sort of this
construct of language and how wetalk about it and how we sense
it and how we experience it andhow we sense it and how we
experience it.
But we get in these moments andthey can be very overpowering
where it's like well, shit, Ihave to do something right now
and we got to make this decisionand this needs to happen, and

(44:56):
often it rarely does need to,and when it is something that
needs to be acted oninstantaneously and immediately.
I go back to your comment ofsort of nature reminds us of, or
it's so obvious, right, it's soobvious that you have to do
something right now.
It's kind of like you don'thave to train for that.
You're going to know when tomake that decision.
It's the training and thereflection and the analysis has

(45:17):
to occur on the seemingly benign, the seemingly obvious or the
seemingly sort of like everydayminutia and understanding that.
And if I understand theeveryday minutia, the things,
the normalcy, the baseline thatyou're talking about, what

(45:39):
should happen and what shouldn'thappen typically, given these
set of circumstances, if I justget really, really good at that,
these nonstandard observationsor those things that are
different, will become clearer,more obvious and more apparent
to me when they come up,regardless of the situation that

(45:59):
I find myself in.
You use those three examples anda lot of people go these are
completely different things.
You need different tools to goafter these and it's a different
.
It's like look, I, I, I get it.
It's a different situation.
But if I look at thefoundational elements and what
we're talking about using thoselenses.
It's not because that doesn'tmatter.
There were certain indicatorshere in all of these.

(46:21):
And what again?
It goes back to well, we haveto look for someone who's in a
position of power to be.
It's like no, look, look, somethings are because that person
is driven towards that behaviorand some are a.
You become a product we all doof our environment and the
situation you're in.
You'll see that a lot too, withlike uh, when people get famous

(46:42):
or something like that man, theywere no one, they were this,
and they struggled their wholelife.
Then, of a sudden, they startedgetting attention.
Now they got money.
Now they got people around them, now they got this.
Now they go down this, thispath of just like, oh, I like
this.
And then one thing leads toanother and yeah, then now
they're predating on people orthey they hadn't done that
previously in their life.
That was a, that was, that wasa process that maybe took maybe

(47:03):
it took that mayor or mary kletourneau years and years and
years to get to that point.
And so when you but then forthat it's not the diabolical
grooming, I mean and then thatbehavior becomes reinforced.
So if you look like like what'shis name?
Harvey Weinstein in Hollywoodor whatever, right it was like.
OK, what was he doing that whenhe was broke?

(47:25):
No one had heard of him.
No, he didn't have the power todo that right.
He had no ability to.
He didn't have access tovictims, but he didn't construct
his life in a manner where thatwas the end goal.
No, he wanted to be the bigtime Hollywood producer, who's
who, and the big time guy,everyone coming to him.
So then, what comes along withthat type of person or

(47:46):
individual or behavior?
Well, there's these otherinfluences that come in, so they
don't all go.
People don't all go down thatpath.
In fact, they rarely go downthat path.
Or or it becomes a sort of this, this sort of a spectrum of
behaviors, I guess, or orcontinuum, I guess, would be a
better word.
But where, okay, now I'm incharge, now I'm in power, now

(48:13):
I'm getting a drunk on power,now I'm doing these other things
I shouldn't, then it's maybejust an inappropriate
relationship, where it's justnot physical yet.
But then I kind of liked thatand that was exciting.
My brain got a reward from that, and now it keeps going and it
keeps going and keeps going, andunless some outside force acts
on that, that's just going tocontinue to happen, but maybe I
just continue to like take overevery company and I'm a ruthless
ceo and I'm a multi-billionaireyou're not going to choose even

(48:34):
more companies?
right, yeah, but but that's all,that's now.
That's all I'm doing, thoughI'm not, I'm not using that to
to, you know, sexually assault,you know, minors or something.
I'm just, I'm just a, my, my, Iget, I get my reaction and my
titillation, my excitement fromthis thing, so they can sort of
spiral out in different ways,and that's why I bring it up,

(48:56):
because we try to oversimplifysome of these things when we
don't need to, and it'sunhelpful, and a lot of the
language we use for that isn'tvery helpful.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
So let's do this.
First of all, if you'relistening to the sound of my
voice, write down on your yellowpad 40.00.
Go back to that when you'relistening to this podcast.
Everything else is a waste,unless you hear Brian's words
starting at about 40, where hetalks about this and he puts it
in clear, concise chunks for howhow to do this.
Now, what I'll do is I'll goback to you and I'll say this

(49:31):
I'm not very profound.
You guys know me.
I'm an old, balding, overweightguy.
That's very opinionated, butI've learned some things through
my life.
So I'm going to give you an HGWells, and that is you are your
own time machine.
From the earliest parts of meteaching any of my students, I
always would quote stuff likePeabody and Sherman in the
Wayback Machine.
Why?

(49:51):
Because you got to gethistorical perspective.
How many times, brian, do Ibring that up when we're talking
about a new client or goingsomewhere or doing this?
What's the historicalprecedence that we're set?
What's going on here and there?
Well, those things areimportant because if you're your
own time machine, you canregulate time, because time is
nebulous anyway, and the idea isthat it's not constant.

(50:12):
It's not consistent, so theidea is.
You can play with it, you canmanipulate it.
Science is good with that.
Physics understands that.
So that means you can giveyourself the gift of time and
distance.
And it is that easy.
It is easy saying no, I'm notgoing through that door right
now, I'm going to take cover.
I'm calling more people.
What do we tell kids in combat?
All the time I told them don'tgo into there unless you know
you would never want to gosomeplace that you can't send a

(50:35):
drone, a camera, a bullet, amissile, a robot.
You get what I'm trying to say.
So why are we now changing that?
And, brian, when we talk aboutPeabody and Sherman, I want
everybody for a minute to thinkof the Great Barrier Reef.
What happens is all this stuff.
There's a reaction that startsbuilding it and then more dead

(50:56):
stuff piles on, and then there'smore microbes and the sunlight
hits it and there's a reaction.
And what happens is itmetastasizes and metabolizes
until you've got this big reef.
That's a baseline.
It metastasizes and metabolizesuntil you got this big reef.
That's a baseline.
And there's stuff that's stuckto your baseline that's old,
that's shit.
That was just you glancing atan article rather than reading
the full scientific breakdownand that stuff is not useful, as

(51:20):
Brian says, and as a matter offact, I would go the extra step
to say not only is it not useful, it's harmful.
So you have to, like ants at apicnic, get up and shake off
that gosh damn blanket thatyou're on, to get some of the
crumbs and the ants off and getback to tabula rasa, because at
tabula rasa you can start theetch-a-sketch, you can start
putting things back in place andgoing.

(51:40):
Wait a minute, this isconsistently wrong.
This woman being outside andthis thing, the Lake County
thing.
To me, brian felt like, whenI'm reading through the timeline
, the distraction for apickpocket I'm going to bump
into you.
The pickpocket's going to getclose, they're going to work.
There was all this streetmagician feel to it.
So when it feels that wrong,you got to stop and you said

(52:03):
something at the end.
I'm just paraphrasing part ofyour argument to give it to
Hoberman the 360 view.
You said something at the end.
I want to take you into the mindof a copper.
A copper has never beenanything.
Now, all of a sudden, he gets abadge.
And what I mean by that?
Yeah, you were good in highschool and shit.
But this is your first real joband all of a sudden, people
have to stop for you, peoplehave to listen for you, and I

(52:24):
don't care if you're a boy or agirl.
You've got a gun and you've gota badge and there's all this
power.
You can kill somebody on thestreet if you feel it's
necessary.
Congress has to come togetherto put somebody to death, you
know.
So all of a sudden you go up todispatch console and you're
going to get a call for thenight and the dispatcher is same
sex or other sex, whatever itis you're attracted to I'm

(52:45):
attracted to furries and thatperson across from you says, hey
, good job out there tonight.
And man, all of a sudden thatdopamine and you've got the
oxytocin and you're liking thatvoice.
And then you go out and you dosomething on the street and you
come back in and they go thatwas great.
Next thing, you know, you're inthe Motel 6 nailing them.
Okay, same thing.
You go to the Cabbage Patch oryou're at the Ram's Horn or
whatever restaurant that is, andyou know what?

(53:06):
That waitress that's got sixjobs and three kids at home from
two failed marriages, or boy orgirl again, I don't give a shit
about it is nice to you.
And you know what, when you gohome at night after midnight,
your old lady's gone, or shecan't build breakfast for you,
or she doesn't know what you doon the street, so you just can't
communicate.
Well, you see how that startsto form where, all of a sudden,

(53:28):
brian, that becomes the reality.
But it's not the reality.
So it's easy to cheat when youallow your emotional mindset to
hijack the baseline rather thanlook at the facts.
I'm a wonderful, loving fatheror mother, I'm a good cop, and
that means that there's anethical dilemma I'm going to be
put into.
And when these other people arenice to me, it doesn't mean
they want to bang me.

(53:49):
It means I have to be tougherand smarter and stronger.
You see how that works.
So I can apply these sameprinciples that we talk about in
my personal life in myprofessional life in a situation
of danger or a situation ofopportunity.
You know how I feel aboutstoicism, and my daughter's a
philosophy doctor.
Okay, and the reason I don'tlike that stoicism is it only

(54:10):
applies to my internal baselineand you say, well, yeah, you're
external because how you treatother people.
No, it doesn't, because I lookat a situation and I say what is
the baseline telling me,where's the anomalies and what
can I do with this information?
That's my how.
I don't need the why.
I understand that.
The why is going to be presentfor me.
That's the changing of theseasons and the dawn and why the

(54:31):
wind blows differently before astorm and the barometric
pressure drops.
Those are all triggers and wewere meant to grow our brain so
the barometric pressure droppingor rising before a hurricane
would warn us.
We didn't have the brain to dothat when we were a child.
We didn't have the brain to dothat 500 or 1,000 or 3,000 years

(54:53):
ago.
So our evolution has to becognitive.
It has to be that we're smarterthan the average bear and then
we'll be able to overcome thesesituations and see those cues
before the situation occurs.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Yeah, and you know, humans, we haven't.
We have not had a softwareupdate in a really really long
time.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Wow, that's so profound.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
So we now have more data and more information that
we have to process that we neverhad to before.
Even you know, 30 years ago,let alone 300 years ago,
absolutely, I mean, you never300 years ago, you didn't know
what happened outside of yourvillage, and maybe you heard

(55:38):
once a month about somethingthat occurred or whatever.
But, like I mean and I'mexaggerating you still had lines
of communication.
There were still, you know,that happening, but it was so
much slower, which gave me moretime to understand and process.
Well, now we seemingly have somuch stuff and so much
information out there that ourhardware system and our

(56:01):
operating system is what it hasalways been and that software
sort of takes a lot longer toupdate and it's always behind
the curve, right, just like onyour phone it's like, oh, we
released this, and then werealized on your phone it's like
, oh, you know, we released thisand then we realized like, hey,
there's all these bugs, so wegot to fix it and then we got to
update it.
But that update doesn't comeuntil after something happens,

(56:23):
right, until there's someexposure that's been or
something that's been exposed.
That was an issue, and you knowit's funny because you brought
it up.
You know it's, uh, the it's.
It's funny because you youbrought it up.
You know you gave the sort oflaw enforcement example from
your career and and it's, it wasactually a great example of of
your sort of baseline shifting,because here you have all of

(56:44):
this power and authority andit's significant, but you've
been doing it so long you don'teven realize where you're at.
I mean, it reminded me of evenbeing in the marine corps, like
in iraq, and we're in someone'shouse and they're like, yeah,
these people are up to something.
They're kind of acting shady.
I don't like this.
It's like, well, I don't know,maybe like uh, maybe like a
bunch of dudes uh flew you know10 000 miles and walked into

(57:06):
their home with guns and I'msetting up claymores and doing
this.
So maybe that has something todo a little.
There's a little bit the waythey're acting this is not
typical for any human being onthe face of the planet, no
matter where you're at.
So right, maybe, just maybethat's input, but because of
this is something we were doingevery single day, day in and out

(57:28):
, like it just was so lost on us, and that's very difficult for
everyone, and I don't care whatyour profession is or what
you're doing.
I mean that's like that's theteachers who get burned out or,
you know, forget about whatthey're doing, and a doctor not
having good bedside manner.
It's like, hey, you know, yes,you've been a cancer doctor for
a really long time, you'rereally good at what you do, but

(57:49):
this is the first time thisperson has any experience with
cancer and it's in their body.
Like, you know what I mean it's?
It's it's something that we justfall victim to as humans
because of all these, justbecause of that.
That's how, how life is in asense, and so you know, getting
back to what you're talkingabout, about time and distance,
and this temporal element is isso it's really fascinating and

(58:10):
intriguing to me, and we don'thave a good concept of it as
humans and I don't think wereally understand how much we
can influence it, which is why Ilove your quote.
Well, it's not yours, but youare your own time machine, right
you?
Actually?
You get to lay your finger onthe scale, you get to process
how that happened and that canbe done.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
And where you get on and where you get off.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Very ineffective.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, process how that happenedand and that can be done and
where you get on and where youget off very ineffective.
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, um, we, we covered, wecovered a lot here and we talked
a lot about some of the issuesthat that impact us.
Um, but you know, it's, it'sthe.
The big takeaway for me isalways is is is time and

(58:54):
distance, which we can say overand over again and people can
say in different training thatthey do or or how to approach
things.
But it's, if you don't havesome sort of process to know
what that is, it's going to bevery difficult, but it is
something I mean.
I, I I use that with with, youknow, insurgent too, because

(59:14):
she's getting older and thenshe's gone.
She's on Christmas or summerbreak and she was just gone for
a while and she goes and stayswith her grandparents and, you
know, gets to be free range kidfor a while and then she comes
back home.
So free range.
Well, me and McKaylee had tohave that talk.
Right, it's like all right,she's coming back because she's

(59:36):
all you know, we're all excitedshe's home, she brings so much
energy to the house and mckayleeobviously missed her so much
and so did I.
But then it was like, okay, we,we got to give her some space
for a few days because there'sgoing to be a huge adjustment
from which she was just operatedthe speed she was operating at
it to now you're at home andyou're not in school yet and we
have chores and we have thisstuff.
So it's like we're going togive her a few days to get
through all that.
Before I start saying, allright, this is what you have to

(59:56):
do every day, this is what youknow, this is what you're, this
is what I need you to do in theyard, this is what you're going
to do to prepare for school.
Like now, you, you, you have touse that sort not used to
getting told what to do for thelast month because she's just
been running around having fun.

(01:00:17):
So we have to sort of ease intothat.
And you know that's sort ofwith everything, and we all jump
to this and you know we havethese checks and balances that
you have to sort of instill withother people Like that.
One's a perfect example.
Like me and my wife had to sitdown and do this together.
You and I do that withdifferent stuff, where I'm on
top of something or working witha client that we're cooking and

(01:00:39):
we're moving forward and thisis going.
I'm like, hey, I want to get inthis and you're like, and
you'll do the?
Yeah, no, we do.
But do we need to do that rightnow?
Or do Do we want to just starthere?
And I'm like, ah, shit, you'reright, let's chunk this a little
bit.
Let's not get overwhelmed,let's not throw everything at
them.
We have time here, like this,isn't.
So you have to sort of have thatperson to do it, or a way to

(01:01:00):
look at it, even internallyyourself, to go.
Is this the right thing to doright now?
It goes back to even our goodfriend, brian Willis, who's an
amazing guy.
He said you know, I love, Ilove when he sends me an email,
because I see it at the bottom,at bottom of his email and says,
remember what's important now?
And I'm like, damn, that's,it's so.
It's just like you're so rightwith that statement, like what

(01:01:22):
is important right now.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Brian, time is like a river it's constantly in flux,
it's constantly in motion, sothat's why we can't just put our
finger on it and hold it,because all that water behind
it's got to come from somewhereand it's going to go around and
it's going to dig a channel.
Look at the Royal Gorge.
So you're always really smartwhen it comes to coming to me
with ideas that I hadn'tconsidered in that way before,

(01:01:47):
and then together we put themtogether and we come up with a
great answer, because we haveanswered so many really really
hard questions for clients, andI love that we have the ability
to do that.
And when we don't know, we goto experts.
What does that mean?
Well, we know about largelanguage models and we know
about large data sets, but theidea is that two things that
will get you in a trick bagfaster than anything is failure

(01:02:10):
to process that informationcorrectly, in other words, the
time that you're putting on theanalysis and what you do with
that information in the moment,and the point of that is comms
communication, internal andexternal communication, team
communication on these issues.
You got to tell somebody thisis wrong, this doesn't feel

(01:02:30):
right.
Why is she going with this kidinto the closet?
But we don't articulate that.
And it's not because we don'thave the words or the lexicon,
brian, it's because we want tostay out of things.
We don't know how to approachthose things and I'll give you
just two quick examples.
I know we're running over anhour, but let me just tell you
PT Barnum comes up with the ideaof the solid Muldoon.

(01:02:50):
He's in Europe, he comes back tothe United States, he takes
some elk bones, some monkeybones, some cow bones, puts them
together with Portland cementand he tells everybody hey, take
a look at what this is, this issome creature that's never been
there.
Charges a nickel, everybodycomes through and sees it.
And then finally the doctoreven certifies yes, this is part
human and part whatever else.
He paid that guy off.
That guy eventually on hisdeathbed said yeah, barnum, put

(01:03:13):
it up to it.
So Barnum makes a ton of moneyon that and it's very famous.
What does he do?
He goes out further into theWest, past the Pony Express,
past the telegraph line, pastinformation Brian, how
information was communicated andhe goes just to the edge of
that where people didn't knowabout the solid Muldoon.
And he does it again and hegoes just to the edge of that
where people didn't know aboutthe solid Muldoon, and he does

(01:03:34):
it again and he goes I found themissing link and he digs it up
in some Western state and peoplecome in and he makes a million
again.
Brian, we can't touch time.
We can manage time, we caninfluence time in our own lives,
we can be our own time machine,but the one thing that we can

(01:03:54):
manage in our lives that'll makeit better is processing
information and communicatingthe results.
That's how predictive analysisworks.
I tend to see this pattern.
I've analyzed it and it leadsme to believe that we're in a
shit sandwich or it's coming upgold or whatever else is going
on In each of the threesituations we talked about today
.
If somebody were to communicatetheir suspicions, you would
have found out what was going onbefore it occurred and perhaps

(01:04:19):
been able to mitigate.
Perhaps, because you never know, but I would rather have the
chance and take the chance thannot have the chance.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
That's the thing.
You're working withprobabilities and likelihood at
that point.
You know you're working withprobabilities and likelihoods at
that point.
So I'm always going to takesomething that you know.
I want to increase my oddsevery time, and not just
statistically.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Right Historical perspective has to come in.
It has to be a situation that,ethically, you're feeling
comfortable with you get whatI'm trying to say.
All those things have to fallin the line.
Feeling comfortable with you,get what I'm trying to say.
All those things have to fallin the line.
It can't just be statistics,because sometimes statistics can
show something that's lessweighted than something else.
So you have to be the arbiterof fact, you have to be the

(01:05:03):
person that steps in and saysthis thing is more important
than these.
And again, in all these threesituations, if that would occur,
the person wouldn't have gottena trick bag in the first place.
And it's my just personalopinion on that and my
professional opinion as a matterof fact.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
All right.
Well, we covered a lot today,so if you're listening, if
you're still at the tail end ofthis, please reach out to us
with any questions.
Obviously, you can always go tothe Patreon site as well and
reach us on there.
We've got more information onthere and we'd love to get some
feedback or what you thought andwhat you like, what you didn't
like, or need us to clarifysomething, because we can always

(01:05:38):
do that and hopefully got somegood takeaways on this.
And, yeah, any other finalwords, greg.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
Yeah, everybody in Lake County, you're a hero.
I'm sorry this situationhappened to you.
Other coppers in the nation,let's pay it forward On duty
roll call.
Let's not get in a trick bag.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
All right On that.
Thanks everyone for tuning in.
We hope you enjoyed thediscussion and don't forget that
training changes behavior.