38. From Fight or Flight to Financial Stability: Balancing Practicality and Spirituality in Your Relationship

In this episode, Mat and Ash get real about how their belief in manifestation, the law of attraction, and "the secret" left them broke, deluded, and resentful of their human experience. They discuss the ways in which new age spirituality can create an unhealthy avoidance of finances, making it difficult to build wealth and stay grounded in reality.

Other topics they discuss:

• The effects of being broke on their relationship and mental health
• The trauma of poverty and how it triggers the fight or flight response
• The delusions they fell into with new age beliefs, including the idea that they were above money or that money wasn't important
• Whether or not they still identify as yogis and spiritual seekers, and why
• How they recovered their finances by reframing their spiritual understanding and finding a healthy balance between spirituality and practicality
• Resources and tips for listeners who want to get their money right and heal their relationship with finances

Tune in to The Inner Work Podcast for an honest, eye-opening discussion about the dangers of new age spirituality and the path to true abundance.

 

Follow the financial coaches mentioned in the episode

Take Our Relationship Workshop Series for Creating and Enjoying a Conscious Relationship! Click Here To read The Inner Work: An Invitation to True Freedom and Lasting Happiness Click Here

 

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Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Hello,
I'm a,
I'm Matt and we are the yoga couple.
Welcome back to another episode of the Inner Work podcast.
We're excited to share with you this conversation today about how we've been noticing that a lot of spiritual teachings have been obviously a huge foundation of how we approach life.

(00:35):
But one of the interesting undertones we've noticed is some of the destruction and problems and issues that it has caused.
And we're super excited to shed some light on this because it's actually something that over the last few years as we've been healing it,
we've seen how so many countless people are,

(00:55):
are struggling with the same thing.
And I think it's because,
you know,
each generation kind of goes through their own wave of coming across certain teachings because,
right,
like a book or a teaching comes out at the same time and we all,
we all digest it and then it starts influencing us and man,
oh man,
did we go on a journey with some of these teachings and,

(01:16):
and finding new age like law of attraction teachings,
non duality,
enlightenment you us and be here now to like all this is what is going to be talked about today and how it influenced us,
the issues it caused.
And then also the solutions that we found,
I will say that we found these teachings when we were teenagers.

(01:38):
So that probably didn't help.
And so maybe somebody who was more mature,
who had more life experience,
found these teachings at a different place in their life would have a more balanced understanding.
And that is kind of the point is that these teachings are relative to your journey.
And I think for us and especially for you and I know you're going to share more about that when we found love of attraction at like 18 years old and then dos and ear to around the same time,

(02:07):
it was like this feeling of like,
oh yeah,
that means I don't have to do life like my parents.
Oh yeah,
that means I don't have to do life like everybody else in America.
I'm the exception I get to just be here now and just attracted a line,
millions of dollars and it's all going to come from my frequency and I'm just going to have just so much peace because I'm not lost in the rat race.

(02:32):
And it was like,
I'm just so cool and there was this delusional joy that we were going to not have to work or not have to be responsible or not have to deal with taxes.
And it fed this fantasy that it took I think for you and me being a married couple,
10 years to unravel and finally get now to a place where we're financially stable.

(02:56):
But if I look back on our financial journey,
because this episode really is about finances and money and our relationship to money,
it took us 10 years as a married couple to get in a place where we are really financially stable and grounded and where we want to be and it's manageable and we're doing well.
But if I look back at why we struggled in the past,

(03:21):
it's obviously because we had these undertone,
these root program beliefs around,
yeah,
around what money,
how money should come to us or how we're supposed to feel about work.
Our relationship to work,
which was like you're not supposed to like working because doing an effort is the problem and the enemy of Eastern being here.

(03:47):
Now,
I think that that was our misinterpretation.
But there was this disgust towards having to work.
Yeah,
I think,
yeah,
that's definitely the biggest way it showed up for me is just thinking that work is the enemy and I just never wanted to do it.
And one of the things I'm so sorry,

(04:08):
babe,
because this is what you would always see me do is one of the ways we started to discover this is ash would notice that like you would,
you would pick up on it immediately that I didn't want to be working I had this vibe of what do I need to do to get this over with so I can move on with my life.

(04:29):
And so because we work together,
she was constantly noticing like,
I just,
I wasn't really there because I just wanted to,
because I saw it as not life.
I want to be in nature.
I want to be present such a distraction from being,
it doesn't matter.
This is what doesn't matter.
Yeah,

(04:49):
it was like,
and so therefore it was like this weird split energy of like I'm not really there,
which then comes off as irritability,
impatience and just this kind of subtle,
checked out vibe or dissociated vibe of this isn't real life.
So can we move on?
Which is so ironic because if you really dive into the actual teachings of mindfulness,

(05:13):
Hinduism yoga,
the whole point is to live a life of presence.
But ironically,
I think when we go and we swing so much into,
into these teachings,
it can create an aversion to Western society and culture.
And we think that there's this place that we could live,

(05:37):
maybe it's in India or maybe it is,
maybe it's here on the island where we move to uh in the jungle where we're going to get to just be natural and not be a part of capitalism and we're not going to ever have to work.
And if we could just be in alignment,
we don't,
we're going to escape the matrix or like whatever the irony being,

(05:58):
this is one of the most expensive places in the US to live.
And yeah,
so good luck with that.
So I think if you are on this path of spirituality,
I think it's inevitable that you're going to go into these realms we're talking about.
And that's ok.
Like we're being humble here and saying we were that too.

(06:21):
We did it and it caused a lot of pain.
And so hopefully,
our journey and our story can help maybe alleviate some of the fog and confusion around why if we're working on our energy and we're doing all this inner work and we're doing all this healing.
We are working on being present and we're doing yoga and we're meditating.

(06:42):
Why is life still so hard and our finances such a mess?
And why is it still never going away?
And why hasn't there actually been any relief if all of this is pro promising relief?
And I think that was the irony of it all is that we go to these things because we want relief and then the relief doesn't ever really come in the way,

(07:10):
in the way we think.
But it is there and we're there.
We are there now.
Yeah,
we are here now.
We are here now and nothing changed and nothing changed just building off of that right away.
So it had this kind of weird vibe of just thinking that showing up in life is a problem.

(07:33):
I need to get back to spirituality as if it's somewhere else,
if it's somewhere else.
And so you can imagine how many issues this caused because now let me take it to some other things,
right?
Responsibilities.
Um,
a funny one we just discovered the other day was we were cleaning our house and we both were laughing because this has been like this constant conversation we've been having lately of we're realizing all the little subtleties of how this belief really screwed screwed with us.

(08:03):
And we were cleaning the house.
And we realized like here we are just continuing to put effort into keeping the house clean because if we don't,
then it gets dirty and then we don't like it.
And then we don't like the environment being dirty.
And we're like,
ok,
I guess we have to keep cleaning it.
And we were laughing because we had this huge realization that we all want this amazing,

(08:23):
abundant,
beautiful,
healthy,
wealthy life.
And one of the massive caveats that is missing from the misinterpretation of Eastern surrendered,
you know,
present mindfulness teachings is the more you want in life,
the more effort it takes.
So like let's say the cleaner you want your house.
Now this is,

(08:44):
we could say,
ok,
you could hire somebody to come clean your house.
But guess what?
That would take money.
And so you got to work for that.
You gotta have effort for that.
And then so,
so let's not,
you know,
get all nuanced out,
right?
We could always look at it however you want.
But the point is this right?
You want the house clean,
then you have to put forth the effort to keep it clean.
And so same thing,

(09:04):
if you want to make more money,
you wanna be healthy.
Here's a good one with working out just to kind of drive this home right away is if you want a really healthy body,
what does it take a ton of effort in consistency in discipline?
If you want to be more successful and more abundant and make more money,
you have to be consistent,

(09:24):
disciplined and put forth more effort.
If you want to have a really good relationship,
here's another massive one.
We're not going to go into this one too much today.
But if you want a really good relationship that takes so much effort and so much work.
And so there's actually a huge irony that we all think that the best things of life are free,

(09:45):
right?
Isn't that like a saying?
Best things in life are free?
And it's like,
yeah,
they're free as in,
in the sense they don't cost money perhaps like happiness,
love,
joy,
compassion,
humility,
you know,
these,
these things,
yeah,
they're not money.
You don't pay for them,
but they're not free in the sense of they don't require effort if you put zero effort into your relationship you are not going to be very happy and in love like there we go.

(10:10):
Right.
If you put tons,
if you put zero effort into your body,
you don't give a shit about what you eat,
you don't work out,
you don't do any exercise.
You don't nourish it,
take care of it.
You don't bathe it,
you,
you,
you know what I mean?
Like get serious like you literally don't care about your body.
You think you're going to be happy,
healthy and feel like strong and like vital fuck.
No,
like hell no.

(10:30):
So it's so funny that we have this illusion.
I definitely this was me.
I mean,
I'm talking to myself here on this one because that was a subtle,
that's what we were saying is it was subtle.
It was this subtle delusion that I shouldn't,
here's what it really came down to.
I shouldn't have to do that.
And it's almost like I would tell Ashley Times,

(10:51):
it's like,
I'm not mad at you.
I'm just mad at God.
Like I'm mad at,
I'm mad that God made it this way that if I want things in life,
I have to put all this effort in like what the hell,
why can't it just come to me?
And when we came across new age teachings like manifesting in the secret that just fed that ego delusion to a whole other level because it fed this delusion that things should just come to us for zero effort.

(11:13):
And that,
that's the truth and that's how God really is.
And that's what,
that's what it really is all about.
And then I'm like,
well,
I'm sitting over here as a human and I'm not really seeing that as my observation,
my observation after years of putting in no effort and being all vision,
all manifest all,
you know,
dreams.
Uh if I don't put any effort or action into my life,

(11:35):
I'm not,
I'm not getting any result whatsoever.
I think this is a response to how unhappy we saw our parents and we see our society and they are putting in a lot of effort and they're miserable.
And so we're like,
OK,
effort equals misery.
And we're like f that,

(11:56):
I don't want that.
And so we run to the east and we run the new age or we run the law of attraction or we run to yoga and we're like great a place where they believe that you could be happy now.
And I don't have to put on all that effort.
I could just be happy where I already am.
But lo and behold,

(12:16):
the misinterpretation is,
is that you can be happy now while you do all that,
while doing all that work,
that it's actually be happy while you work.
That's actually what it really means.
And the proof for anybody who wants a literal,
give me a text proof.
Go to yoga sutra verse 1.12 it's,

(12:40):
I think it's yoga is 100% effort,
100% an attachment,
basically 100% of the time.
And it means in like what the translation is really that the state of contentment,
the state of yoga is arrived at by being full hearted in everything you do,

(13:02):
putting 100% effort into everything,
washing the dishes,
cleaning your house,
going to work,
being a parent,
being a partner,
being there 100% the best you could be.
And also being 100% unattached to the outcome and result.
And that second part is what Western society is missing.
That's why they're unhappy.

(13:22):
They are putting in all the effort and then they're miserable because it's not going the way they want because they're not getting the results they want because they're not having that sense of relief and presence and attachment is also just being present with the work being unattached.
This is what I'm just doing.
That's ok.
And so they're missing the un attachment.
And so then we're like,
ok,

(13:43):
we,
you know,
we're going to go to the East and learn an attachment and we forget to take with us the effort we learn from our culture.
And we think it's,
it's not there.
It doesn't have to be there,
but it does,
it's there.
It's in yoga.
It says you have to have both all the time.
And uh you get pieces of Eastern philosophy of presence and mindfulness and you don't get the whole enchilada and it's like we're cherry picking things that sound really nice to us.

(14:08):
The ego,
the ego is like,
I like that one.
I'm gonna use that.
Yeah.
And it's like,
just be unattached,
just be present.
It's like,
that's not the whole story.
It's be unattached and be present.
Wow,
you still do all the things things you had to do when you were in western capitalism or you know,
in America or in whatever society that is,
you have to be whatever life you're in that you are resisting it.

(14:30):
It's we think stop resisting is go with the flow.
Let go.
Because these Eastern teachings of yoga teach your suffering is a direct result of your resistance.
And we think that that means great.
So work obviously that takes resistance.
That's resistance like,
oh this is,

(14:51):
it's not working.
I'm not getting enough money from this.
The universe isn't aligning.
This is taking too much work.
It must be in resistance.
So I'm unattached,
which will put me in non resistance.
So I give up,
that's not what being non resistance means.
Being a non resistance doesn't mean back out of everything that's not going your way and just kick your feet up and go live in the jungle.

(15:14):
I mean,
that's what we did.
That's why we're here,
you guys.
So we're stuck on the island because that's what you do.
It really means being Nonresistant your to your mind to what you think is a problem.
Just keep moving forward.
It's almost like stop resisting,

(15:34):
what you're resisting,
like stop resisting in the first place,
just stop resisting the resistance,
right?
So for example,
you are annoyed at work,
stop annoying,
being annoyed at work.
That's,
that's what it means.
It means,
stop resisting.
What is your life?
Go to work from a place of non resistance and presence and non attachment.
And yes,
you have to make money.

(15:54):
You have to pay your taxes,
you have to pay your bills and you need to take care of your debt because these things are going to cause unnecessary suffering in your life.
There's no escape.
And I think we think in spirituality,
we're going to get to this place of escaping the matrix where we don't have to pay taxes and we don't have,
ok if you're one of these people and you found some crazy ass like escape and you're out of it and you have complete unsufferable parents.

(16:24):
I've never met anybody.
Yeah,
they have a job,
they have a house,
they have a mortgage,
whatever you have things you have.
There's no escaping these things.
You have to pay for your food,
you have to pay your taxes,
you're going to go to jail if you don't.
And even if we say,
all right,
bro,
I made a bunch of money in Bitcoin.
So that was me hacking the system.

(16:45):
It's like cool.
But How's your body?
How's your relationship?
Right.
I just want to really pinpoint that this isn't just finances,
it's your relationship with effort and period.
Yeah.
But I do really want to focus on finances because I think that this is the main point that people are in an illusion of like law of attraction.

(17:08):
If you look in a new age and law of attraction and spirituality and you look at,
let's just call it Instagram spirituality.
Everybody is obsessed with attracting success and money and abundance.
And they think that there's going to be this place.
I know that they think this because we thought this,
that it's all just going to flow and you're not going to have to deal with the backlog of debt or the backlog of your student loans or uh even if you have all this money,

(17:31):
you still have to learn to manage it,
you will lose it.
If you don't,
you will spend it.
We've had a lot of money,
you will just blow it and you'll have to start over all over again.
If you don't get your mindset right about being responsible because you think you can escape and overt responsibility,
which is the effort,
which is the,
the resistance like you have to be disciplined.

(17:52):
And so with that is that I don't remember what I was saying with this,
I think I got thrown off because I thought this episode,
Matt was about finances.
And so,
well,
I just want to drive home the point that it's also the relationship with effort because finances take a shit ton of effort.
And so I just want to make sure and clarify for anybody who's like,
well,
my finances are good but I,

(18:13):
I don't like working out and I don't like eating healthy and I don't like putting effort in my relationship.
And I do think that my relationship should just be easy And I think that a relationship that takes effort is wrong.
So I want to pinpoint this is your entire relationship with discomfort and pain in life.
I just wanted to nuance that out now,
of course,

(18:33):
we can fixate definitely and hone in on finances for sure.
But I also just want to make sure that we caveat this technically applied to all effort like chores and mundane bullshit of being human.
Because one of the reasons why I wanted to,
the reason why I'm saying this too is because I want to make sure in this conversation today,

(18:57):
we go over that.
One of the biggest subtleties we found is that spiritual teachings,
especially of the East can accidentally dissociate and dehumanize us to the point where we,
what that usually looks like practically speaking is we see being human as less and so being on a routine,

(19:23):
being disciplined,
having a job,
having security,
paying off debt,
managing money,
taking care of your body,
keeping your shit,
all your house clean and your things nice and taking care of your responsibilities.
We have deemed as like,
oh,
that's just like,
so like not spiritual.
We want to re spiritual and re teach the teachings are still true.

(19:47):
It's still true.
They're just getting misapplied because one of the biggest messages that we share in our book,
the inner work and that we also go over with our teacher,
trainers,
trainees all the time is you have to understand that spiritual teachings are relative and your journey is relative to where you are.
And so a lot of people are coming across these teachings and they think great,

(20:11):
their ego immediately gets hooked because it's such an easy sell.
Anything that,
that preaches escaping discomfort and escaping effort.
The ego is like,
I'm sold.
What's up?
What do I gotta do?
Think about it,
right?
Everybody's hooked by the idea of making money fast,
easy and as least effort as possible and as passively as possible.

(20:31):
That's because that's our human ego.
That is like,
yeah,
sign me up for that because I don't want to have to be uncomfortable.
The ego's greatest goal is to escape discomfort.
And so I just wanted to make sure and go over this.
We make sure we hit this because there's a huge disservice that happens when our ego gets attached to escaping discomfort and we lose track of the real relative teaching.

(20:59):
For most of us is to actually master being uncomfortable.
That is 99.9% of people need to just do that.
You need to learn how to be completely at peace while you're in pain and discomfort.
That's actually most people's goal in life and enlightenment teachings and non duality.

(21:21):
Uh And,
and these more advanced Eastern teachings of Buddhism,
Hinduism yoga or even Taoism,
the,
these teachings are for someone who is either ready to die and they want to die in the most enlightened non attached way.
Or we could say they're ready to renounce everything like in the East,

(21:43):
they literally are going to go be a monk.
They're going to walk into the forest and be like,
I'm an aesthetic now.
I renounce everything.
Sure.
That's relevant for them.
But I don't know about you,
but I'm not ready to do that.
I'm not ready to die.
I'm not ready to leave you.
That's for damn sure.
And I'm also not ready to renounce everything and disappear into the forest.
So these teachings are not really applicable for most of us because most of us need to take a couple of steps back from that absolute truth and,

(22:13):
and realize,
well,
yeah,
man,
that's true.
Like in the big picture,
another big one that just came to mind real quick on the non duality note is like,
we're all one.
It's like cool,
but like how does that help me on a level of I need to pay my bills right now.
And I think that's what everybody wants to escape.
We all just want to escape what is uncomfortable and scary to us and the majority of people and,

(22:38):
and in the inner workbook,
we go over this constantly of,
most of us just need to master,
being accountable and having the courage to be accountable,
the courage to be responsible,
the courage to show up to your obligations of your life and become a master of taking care of your life.
That's honestly what we all just need to probably if you did that your whole life,

(23:00):
that would be a well lived life extremely well lived because your life would first of all be healthy,
wealthy and successful because you would have given the time and energy and you would have faced everything you needed to face.
And likewise,
you'd be extremely fulfilled because your self confidence and self esteem you get from that is astounding.
And one of the biggest things I had to realize in my journey with this is effort is not the enemy.

(23:24):
Effort is literally how we develop self esteem.
Effort in facing discomfort is how you know your power.
And the biggest message of again,
the inner work is true,
power and true freedom is not avoiding and escaping everything,
true power and true freedom and lasting happiness comes from being able to never have to escape anything.

(23:48):
You can show up to whatever you need to show up to,
you can face whatever you need to face,
you can handle whatever you need to handle and you might be terrified and you might be scared and you might be insecure and that's ok too,
showing up to negative emotions are ok and you learn how to master going through the,
the discomfort of life.
Man.
If we all just focus on mastering that,

(24:10):
the world would be so much healthier.
And likewise,
you wouldn't have people like us getting lost in hippie land for years just being like,
we don't,
it's all just gonna happen and like,
I'm gonna win the lottery.
Babe,
there was a time we went through a massive loss and I was like,
babe,
my frequency is so aligned.
I'm just gonna to win the lottery.
It's gonna be OK.

(24:32):
This is important because if you,
if you really are um on the spiritual path and you know,
there's truth here,
you know that there's something here on this path of enlightenment.
The real invitation is for you.
Like when Dass is saying like be here now and ear to is like saying,

(24:52):
you know,
the power of now it's like be here now as you pull up your student loan debt and look at it and find out a way to pay it and you responsibly make a spreadsheet and the power of now is here as you look at your checking account and you actually balance out how much you're spending and you can have a budget and you could be totally present as you do that.

(25:21):
But we think we can only be here now if we avoid these things and we go sit under the palm trees and by the ocean and we,
and,
and we're only going to Crystal now if it's pleasant,
that's the misunderstanding.
So I just want to do a shout out for a resource for everybody is that we have this couple who we met.

(25:44):
They,
they took our Nama stay together challenge.
But there are a couple who are actually financial coaches,
but they're like spiritual awakened financial coaches who are basically teaching.
This is like their whole thing is finances and how to deal with it and handle it and deal with it as a couple.
And I hope we talk about this,
this episode that finances is like one of the biggest reasons people end up getting a divorce.

(26:08):
Yeah,
it's like we saw just recently.
It's what couples,
70% of the time they're fighting about more than sex chores,
responsibilities and anything else in the relationship.
It's money.
Yeah,
and we're here.
We're Matt Nash,
we're the yoga couple and we're here.
What do people say when they're like advocating for a politician?
They're like,
I,
I support this message.

(26:29):
We support this message that you need to deal with your finances as part of your enlightenment and that you,
you need to balance your checkbook.
You need to deal with your debt and a great,
we don't teach people how to do that.
Yeah.
Yeah,
it's not really our forte,
we don't want to become financial advisor,
but we think you really need to do that out financial support.

(26:49):
And so we recommend they're called rad coaches on Instagram and rat coaches and this is not a paid sponsorship.
They didn't ask us to do this.
I just look at their Instagram all the time and I'm like,
heck yeah,
like when they're like telling people like how to face the discomfort of their debt and how to deal with it and they,

(27:12):
you know,
entrepreneurs and how to,
you know,
make more money and get financially free and deal with the hard stuff and have those hard conversations as a couple and they specifically coach couples on how to get their finances.
Right.
And I think,
I think if you're,
if you're on the path of enlightenment,
step one,
go deal with your finances seriously because it,

(27:34):
it,
it's chakra stuff here.
Like your root chakra,
your core needs need to be dealt with.
You can't just jump up to your seventh chakra and be like all night and like,
you can't bypass the stuff.
You need to go deal with your,
with your debt,
you need to deal with your checking account,
you need to face it,
you need to get your finances right.
Here's what I would always say too,
is honestly,

(27:55):
non duality and enlightenment teachings are irrelevant until you have completely mastered your self-care and your discipline around your health and you're completely wealthy,
you have complete success in all areas and you feel completely satisfied.
Like you have nothing more,
like you've totally just reached your potential and your life is just so good that you're like,

(28:21):
you know,
I,
I,
I feel like I've really mastered earth and I feel like I'm ready to leave this place.
Like I feel like I'm really,
I'm ready to,
you know,
to,
to transcend being uh an individual.
And I want to contemplate that.
Like,
do you get what I'm getting at here?
Is it just shows how no one really is like,
yeah,
that's me,
man.
Like I've done all that I have nothing more to gain for being on earth.

(28:43):
And I'm,
I'm ready to just transcend attachment to this place.
Honestly,
though,
I think that what this contemplating enlightenment,
you wouldn't be pursuing it.
It would just be a natural realization as a result of you mastering the human experience.
And so I know it's premature for everyone,

(29:06):
for most people because we are pursuing it prematurely and we are here in a body because we are here to work on our character development and enlightenment.
And this is,
you know,
we're yoki,
OK?
The side effect of the post it is we have a yoga teacher training.
Another shout out,
I hope that's OK.
Sacred yoga institute.

(29:26):
Come study with us.
We talk about this in the yoga teacher training that meditation in the state of meditation is a natural effect of practice.
The state of enlightenment.
Samadi is a natural result and effect of self mastery.
What is self mastery character development when you develop your character and you have a disciplined life of self mastery and you,

(29:51):
you've done your inner work and you do your inner work indefinitely.
You are a self mastered being,
you show up to your disciplines of life.
Enlightenment is a state of being.
Somebody is a state of being.
Yoga is a state of being,
is a natural side effect of developing your character.
There is no pursuit of it and I know that this is why it's premature for most people because they're acting like it's something that you can go do and pursue and learn.

(30:17):
You cannot learn enlightenment,
you cannot study enlightenment.
You work on your character development,
you be a Yogi,
you work on self mastery.
Enlightenment will be a natural result.
And even when it is a natural state of consciousness,
nothing in your life will change.
You will be,
you will continue going to work,
you will continue washing dishes,

(30:38):
you will clean the kitchen every day and you will do everything the same and you will just have enlightened state of consciousness as you do it.
That's it.
And,
and that I think that's the thing is people think they're going to pursue and lighting.
It's a bypass character development and it's a glorified version of heaven again again because heaven is also in the West,

(31:01):
we know extreme destination seeking concept.
It's all about like just get this over with so I can get to heaven.
And this was a huge nuance we discovered because I was raised Christian,
one of the nuances,
Ash.
And I figured out is she said one day,
as things started to get really good and we started to experience a lot of abundance and success in our life.

(31:23):
I kind of went into this weird state because I didn't really know what was next.
And Ash would look at me and be like,
you kind of have this vibe of like you're waiting to die.
And I said,
you know,
I guess I kind of am because I feel like I did everything I set out to do.
So like,
do I die now?
Do I go to heaven?
Is this heaven?
Do I just kick up my feet?
Like,
what is heaven?

(31:44):
And it kind of opened this whole discussion just for starters.
I don't know if I want to spend too much time on this,
but I realized he heaven's not a place where you kick your feet up and relax.
I think the angels are super busy.
I think they're giving constant service.
And so I was like,
oh shoot.
So wait a minute,
I'm over here thinking that I get to a point of such success or happiness that I just quit everything and so Ash was like,

(32:09):
you actually seem really weird and dissociated and like depressed in a,
in a,
in a kind of subtle way because if I'm not serving anybody or helping anybody,
then I kind of am checked out waiting to die because I'm confused.
And that's why we know when people retire and they stop giving any service or being any connected in any way to a community or anything like that,

(32:31):
they do get really depressed because as humans and as souls,
honestly,
as beings,
we derive satisfaction and happiness from purpose and meaning.
So I just want to make sure and hit that.
But then coming back to what you were just saying babe,
about character development is I think I want to make sure and hit this point.

(32:51):
We had of what happens when the wounded themes of consciousness that we go over in the book,
the inner work.
If you haven't read it yet,
the wounded themes of consciousness perceive higher spiritual teachings as an escape from dealing with their wounds.
So let's say you have a trauma of,

(33:12):
you know,
feeling unworthy like a shame,
rejection,
trauma.
Well,
if shame and rejection,
a wound of rejection gets a hold of these teachings,
the way the ego perceives that the mind perceives that as great,
I don't need to deal with this.
I can just be enlightened instead.
And so I can just let go of my trauma,
let go of my problems.
And not have to heal it or make any reconciliation.

(33:35):
Or let's say you have like um a wound of violation and you don't feel empowered and you feel disempowered.
Well,
they get a hold that,
that energy,
that type of person gets a hold of these teachings,
teachings and says,
ah great.
This will make me powerful.
This is how I'll get my power back.
I'll be enlightened.
I won't have to actually heal uh anything to do with my past traumas or my perception of things and that I constantly am.

(34:01):
Why am I seeking power in the first place?
Whatever wound the person may have,
whether it's anger,
depression,
uh paranoia and fear or shame and guilt.
There's all sorts of different wounds that we go over.
But the biggest thing is,
is if they get a hold of it,
pride being the most obvious when pride gets a hold of this stuff,
it's like great.

(34:22):
I'm special.
I'm the exception.
I won't have to do what everybody else does.
I don't have to be uncomfortable.
I get to be prince or princess like I'm just so lucky.
And so there is something really interesting to notice when you come across spiritual teachings you have to be very aware of.
Is this actually relevant for me?

(34:45):
And that's just as you,
as we're seeing,
we keep circling back to this point of what is most relevant.
Coming back to Ash's point about character development is we found that I have grown,
let's just use myself.
I have grown far more than showing up to my humanness than I ever have studying spirituality.

(35:07):
Let's put it that way.
I have spent years like 17 years now immersed in psychology,
consciousness,
spirituality,
enlightenment,
non duality.
I mean,
I have deep dived into it and I feel like all it did was confuse me in so many ways because once I just started embracing my humanness,

(35:36):
the amount of spiritual breakthroughs and epiphanies and aha moments and clarity and self empowerment that I got was drastically like it was like totally the truth and it was 100% what I needed.
Whereas all my time studying non duality and enlightenment and like,
wow,
this is so like this is the truth and,

(35:58):
and trying to realize this state of self realization and godhood in a sense is,
was a complete distraction because I needed to pay my bills and I need to be a good husband and I needed to like,
not judge you and have my weird wounds being projected on to you because I haven't resolved them because I just want to escape them after auto.
I,
I want to avoid them.

(36:19):
And so it's just this really important thing that we want to give you permission and like validation and not permission in a sense of,
you know,
you need that.
But just like in the sense of like give yourself permission to be like,
hey,
it's not less spiritual to master,
being human.
If we look back at the beginning of this,

(36:41):
or we listen back to the beginning of the podcast.
We started talking about how we swung hard into these spiritual teachings because we witnessed so many people being miserable doing their humanness,
right?
And so we thought by not being human,
that was the answer.
And so the real invitation is go back into being human from the mindset that you've understood from the east.

(37:05):
So being present,
being mindful,
being grateful,
being in bliss,
being light and all these things,
the beauty and the blessing of all things and take that wisdom into your being humanist,
that was all that was missing.
That was it.
It was very simple.
And there's this beautiful quote and I'm probably going to butcher it,

(37:26):
but it's from one of my yoga books and I forgot who said it.
But I think her name was Renee.
And I,
I basically just paraphrase it myself because I don't remember it,
quote by quote or word by word.
But it just always really helped me find words for this exact thing.
She says,
if you go up the mountain and you know,

(37:47):
you have to come down again,
what's the point of even going up?
I want to make sure you said this one.
Yeah.
If you have,
if you want to,
if you go up the mountain and you know,
you have to come down again you hike up the mountain and you know,
you have to come down again.
What's the point of even hiking up to begin with?
And this is a metaphor to spiritual teachings.
Enlightenment having that state of is like if we can go into these states and some people even even using plant medicines to access these higher states of consciousness and we're not able to sustain them.

(38:16):
You can't live in this enlightened detached state.
You have to come back down into your humanness.
So what's the point of even exploring them?
Should we just give up spirituality altogether then?
And the answer is no,
because what one who has gone above and been in these higher states of consciousness they have seen and they can look down at what's below,

(38:36):
but someone who's below,
they can't see what's above.
So there's an art to living in these lower spaces,
these lower realms of your mundane humanness from the memory and wisdom of higher states of consciousness.
And so it is worth it to go and explore enlightenment meditation.
Have these states of Samadi even if it's through plant medicine or,

(38:59):
or whatever the practice is,
or if it's just this trans state from,
you know,
going into your art,
your music,
whatever it is,
knowing that you do have to come back down again.
You got to go pay your taxes,
you got to wash the dishes and clean the kitchen again today and you got to go be a parent and a partner and you got to go to work and put back on the suit,

(39:19):
but you can do it with the memory of the wisdom you gain from these higher states and take that with you.
Whereas the resentment that you had to your family or parents or society who had never experienced a state of consciousness who were living in autopilot and out of lower themes of anger and resentment and,

(39:39):
you know,
were just getting through the grit and the grind of,
they don't really have that,
that sense of presence and purpose in their life.
That's the solution,
not escaping it altogether.
Exactly.
It's not to change what you're doing.
It's change how you're doing it.
And that's one of the biggest things that we're always saying to each other is every time we come across something that someone like,

(40:04):
whether we're studying a case study,
like of a show and we're going to make a video on it or something like that.
We're always like,
it's so fascinating because when we look at other people's lives and how they're living,
why is it that someone could have,
what we would describe as maybe our dream life,
but they're like,
ready to commit suicide and miserable.
Like,
let's say,
celebrities,
for example,
we always scratch our heads on these.

(40:26):
Um We look at that and we're like,
well,
wait a minute that if I was in that situation,
I'd be so happy and it's like,
well,
maybe you would,
maybe you wouldn't.
But the real question would be,
it would be determined by how you did those things.
It's how you show up to your job,
to your relationship,
to your kids,
to your chores,
to your responsibilities.

(40:47):
It's the theme of consciousness you bring into it.
Basically saying that no matter how much money you end up having,
if you're a miserable person,
you'll still be miserable.
And no matter how little money you have,
if you're a happy person,
you'll,
you'll still be happy.
And so that state of consciousness and that character development is all that matters.

(41:08):
Exactly.
So,
coming back to that character development is,
it's less about the things,
although it's wonderful to pursue your potential because that's part of your character development.
It's just that the non attachment part is pursue it with every single bit of muscle,
bone and fiber you have.

(41:30):
And also know that it's not required for you to be in your actual potential because your actual potential is internal and everything you do in life is just a simulator for that.
So for example,
showing up and taking care of your work and finances is not about the work and finances.

(41:51):
It's about who you become from doing that.
So for example,
um,
work is really about developing a heart of service.
And one of the biggest things if I'm working with someone in the past around their career is I'd always say,
well,
if you're feeling unfulfilled and lacking purpose and meaning in it,

(42:12):
you might have forgotten who you're serving because every job serves someone or else it wouldn't exist.
Even if you're in a factory and you don't see anybody,
you're still serving a customer,
you're serving a customer on some level,
no matter what degree it is.
So,
so connect with who you're serving and understand that you're serving someone in something and the real joy of effort is out of service.

(42:38):
And then the second aspect of that is to really realize that as you show up to that,
you then have this award of finances,
how you manage your finances and the attitude you have towards it is what's important to develop.
Are you responsible?
Are you negligent?
Are you checked out?
Are you attached?

(42:59):
Right.
It's like figuring out,
do you get prideful if you have,
you know,
when you compare yourself to other people,
do you?
Right.
That's what's important.
It's what and how you go about it.
So,
if you have a certain amount of money,
one person can be totally blissed out with your level of income.
And,
and back when I was a counselor and a,

(43:19):
and a,
um,
a coach for people,
I would meet a lot of people from all various income brackets and you could have someone that could have the exact same amount of money and they'd be completely,
they'd feel like they won the lottery and then another person is like super stressed and pissed off and they think it's either not enough or they're just not happy yet still or whatever.
And that's what this is all about.

(43:41):
It's just how are you showing up to your life and what attitude and that development is always what it's going to come back to.
But again,
going back to the beginning of our conversation,
I think you mentioned,
I think you mentioned because we've done a couple of takes here but that there was a time where you were in delusion around our finances and you were super happy,

(44:03):
like you were just totally checked out of finances and work and things were falling apart,
the ship was sinking,
but you were happy because you took that teaching right there.
It's all about your state of consciousness.
Be happy,
right?
So,
so let's talk about the real one that people tend to avoid it like making peace with effort like yes and no,

(44:26):
because it's like be being happy is back to the yoga sutras,
the un attachment piece,
but we have to equally have the effort piece.
Yeah,
I would almost say like this,
it's show up ambitiously and and aggressively to reach your potential and also focus on doing that in the most loving blissed out way.

(44:54):
How does that sound for you,
like aggressively pursue absolutely everything you think you deserve in life,
be as big as possible for whatever your version of that is love as big as possible,
be as healthy as possible,
be as successful as possible,
be as responsible as you possibly can,
like relentlessly pursue your potential as a human while also focusing on how you do that.

(45:22):
Because like,
for example,
let's say you have a,
a classic cliche Wall Street or in a negative way because there's plenty of people possibly,
you know,
investing in Wall Street that are fine.
But let's say you have that aggressive cutthroat person that's like,
I don't care how many people I hurt to make this money.
I don't care.
You know,
I'm just out here reaching my potential.

(45:44):
And this is the part that we all get so fed up with,
with Western society is they'll lie,
still cheat and kill whoever they need to,
to get the profit,
right?
So it's like,
yeah,
you could do it that way,
but that's not what this means.
It means pursue that relentlessly.
So try to make as much money as you possibly can and enjoy the life as abundant as you possibly can while also doing it in the most loving way.

(46:06):
So can you be that aggressive person,
not aggressive in any sort of negative domineering way but aggressive in the sense of ambitious maybe is a better word.
So be that ambitious version of yourself.
But how could you do it while you uplifted and served other people in the process?
Like,
for example,
there's plenty of people just using this cliche example of bankers and Wall Streeters that totally help other people.

(46:30):
They create wealth for other people and they're an amazing service to their clients.
You could do that with a heart of love and gratitude and joy and like,
wow,
I'm so good at picking my investments and I'm so good at making money for my clients or you could be cut throat and dirty about it.
So do both pursue that highest potential of yourself while also being as loving and blissed out and not attached as you do it.

(46:55):
I think that's been our biggest aha moment.
Mine was more so the effort ashes was more so just letting it be like good enough as it was because she,
she always,
she was more the masculine side.
I was more the feminine and so she was always like we could do so much more and I was like,
no,
we're already good and we kind of needed to flip,

(47:16):
which we went over in our last episode.
I think it's a great resource or kind of a thing to come back to and remind yourself of if ever you're not feeling content in any aspect of your life or any compartment of your life.
If your relationship is off,
if your finances are off,
if your ambitions are off,

(47:37):
something's not feeling right.
Just ask yourself which one is missing because likely you're either going to be 100% attached or you're going to be 100% unattached.
So it was like,
man,
my money is just always a mess.
And if you ask yourself,
well,
which one is it?
You'll be like,
oh,
I've just been completely unattached.
That's why I have no 100% effort.
I have no 100%.

(47:58):
You know,
I'm all in on this.
Like,
I,
I can't even,
like,
think about doing that.
That's how far away I've been from that.
It's like then that's your medicine.
Not everybody's medicine is to be surrendered,
right?
Sometimes their medicine is get invested.
I think a lot of the spiritual communities get invested,
like get get back into the balance of pursuit because that's the thing.

(48:21):
I think a lot of us all swung from the two attached version.
And so I think in the West,
our version of it and spirituality is we actually need to just be,
we need to come back to what our parents and grandparents,
everything we were rebelling of.
But do it with that coming off the mountain lens and it's like cool you went on this spiritual journey.

(48:45):
But part of the hero's journey is to come down the mountain and come back into society with your perspective,
like you said,
so for those who have been super attached and have been defining themselves completely by their status,
their ego,
their knowledge,
their money and and it stresses them out and they can't be happy if,

(49:06):
if it's not always going their way.
That person's,
that person's work in medicine is to surrender.
And to be like,
hey,
if the markets aren't going my way,
if my accounts,
if my job,
if,
if my partners,
you know,
needs more of me,
if anything is needing of me and it's not necessarily going all smooth and easy for me.

(49:27):
I can be ok with that.
I can be non attached to that.
I don't have to see that as a direct threat to my happiness,
the art of letting go.
And it's really funny because I think for our generation,
we grew up super privileged and we saw our parents suffering and they needed the art of letting go,

(49:47):
but we needed the art of effort and we took on the medicine of a generation prior to us and and that also probably comes to from like listening to teachers that were from a different generation.
So like generation and you know,
to generation and stuff and the boomer and just being like super,

(50:07):
you know,
in productivity mode,
super self sacrificing to the point of of not that was their medicine and then we're listening to them and this other generation and like that really wasn't the work of our generation.
Our generation is people call our generations lazy,
right.
Yeah,
like entitled and lazy.

(50:29):
It's a known thing.
We're all mad at the boomers for being like super like productivity driven and selfish and not seeing their impact on the environment and,
you know,
not seeing the impact they had on their families and Children or their own health and well being they're like,
not mentally well,
you know,
balanced and then for us it's like all mental health and just like,

(50:50):
you know,
rest and entitlement and all these things and like,
we need to learn to get our ass in gear.
And so it's like,
that wasn't really our medicine.
And so I think it's,
that's also really interesting to think about.
I was just thinking about that as you were talking.
Right.
Yeah,
we were listening to teachers that weren't from our generation and that wasn't really relevant for us.
I think,
especially when I was 18.

(51:11):
Think the biggest thing to really lock in.
I love that you,
you came up with it that way is ask yourself,
which is my medicine right now?
Am I,
am I not happy?
And I'm suffering because I'm too attached to something and I do need to actually surrender my uh and I need to be a little more at peace despite the highs and lows of life or is things so uncomfortable because I'm actually not there.

(51:39):
I'm not showing up.
I'm not actually doing anything about it and I need to really put forth more effort and that it's,
if I'm honest with myself.
Yeah.
No,
I'm not showing up at all.
And that was like,
for me for sure.
I was like,
no I'm not giving my 100% whatsoever here.
And I'm so sorry that I'm not.
And if you're in a partnership,
it can be a really healing thing.
I know for us it was for us to both kind of see,

(52:03):
hey,
I'm sorry,
I totally misunderstood this and Ash and I used to talk about it when we were working through.
This is I just profoundly apologize because I was like,
I thought I was literally being in line.
Like,
I'm sorry,
I thought I was like doing it right.
I literally thought I was doing the teaching.
So that's I think why we are so passionate about this in the inner work,

(52:26):
we're constantly trying to teach the world it's relative.
And I think it's because we got wounded by that.
And so it's our greatest message of it's not one or the other.
So notice right now,
what made me think of this is,
it's not one or the other.
It's what is it for you?
And hopefully,
if a generation,
the next generation listens to us,

(52:47):
they won't get lost because we won't be projecting what,
what we think you have to do.
We will say,
well,
here's the things that you need to check in with for yourself.
This is what we did.
This is what our work is,
but your work can be totally different.
And that's the whole message of the inner work is it's specific to each individual.
I think it's important before we wrap up because I don't really think we shared too much about it.

(53:09):
But these things we're saying,
I think you're getting it that it came from us,
struggling and suffering a lot in our life is that,
you know,
we've been in extreme debt.
We've spent more than we've made,
we've lost everything financially.
We've lived in living situations that we would consider beneath our comfort.

(53:29):
I mean,
we pooped in a bucket,
a Home Depot bucket.
So I think that pretty much sums it up.
Yeah.
Yeah,
we,
we lived in a hut and we,
we,
because we didn't have the financial ability to support ourselves and we got ourselves into a lot of financial situations that were extremely uncomfortable and cause a lot of issues in ourselves and trauma.

(53:52):
And it also,
it damaged our relationship.
You know,
like when you are not doing well financially and you're struggling,
it's very hard to have a healthy,
happy relationship because you are in survival mode.
And this is really important.
Y'all,
your finances need to be stable or else you're going to be in survival mode.

(54:15):
This is like basic needs and who you are in survival mode is not your true self.
It's trauma,
it's PTSD and you're creating more trauma,
you're in trauma and then you're creating trauma.
And so it's,
it's so important if spirituality enlightenment is important to you.
If all this stuff is important to you,
if peace is important to you,

(54:35):
if health is important to you that you really care about your finances,
because if you don't,
the consequences and side effects of that are going to be traumatic and that is not conducive to a peaceful life that is not conducive to a healthy life or a present life.

(54:58):
It's hard to be present when you are in survival mode and you're not dealing with your finances and constantly being in root shock or chaos is the exact opposite of what we're saying we want.
So it's kind of ironic that we're on the spiritual path,
exploring all these spiritual things.
But then the reality situation is our finances are so messed up that the reality is we're in survival mode.

(55:21):
We want to be in enlightenment.
We want to be in spiritual things.
We're going to spiritual,
you know,
teachings for help.
But really the reality of the situation is we're in survival mode because we are avoiding the reality of the situation,
which is look at your checking account,
create a financial plan,
do what you got to do,

(55:43):
get a job,
go to work,
figure things out,
pay off your debt.
And instead we're looking at spiritual teachings for help instead of just doing what needs to be done.
And it's like,
do what needs to be done.
That is the most important thing.
So I hope like if anybody is feeling like,
yeah,
I've been looking to the spiritual things and law of attraction and I am looking for some guidance because I am stressed and I am in financial chaos.

(56:12):
It's the last thing you think you want to do,
which is just do the most basic thing.
Probably the thing that your parents are telling you you need to do,
which is as annoying as it is because you're an adult now and you're like,
I don't want to hear it.
It probably is that thing you need to do the basic thing,
the basic ass shit,
figure that out.
You need to do that be be a responsible adult and just master that I think too as you take inventory,

(56:39):
one of the biggest things we noticed is that as we looked at how our financial situation was not what it should be or shall we say not our potential,
what you're also gonna discover that's gonna be important is on that journey to figuring that out.
You need to also examine what inner work got you there that you're not doing.

(57:02):
So,
for example,
if I have some sort of trauma in some guilt wound or unworthiness wound or something like this or some religious trauma,
that's kind of screwing with my self view,
then obviously it's going to impact my finances because it's gonna control my thoughts,
my beliefs,
my perspectives,
my actions and it's going to sway my emotions and for starters,

(57:27):
it's gonna sabotage me by me trying to validate.
See my finances are a reflection of my self worth.
I knew it.
I'm a piece of shit.
I'm judged da,
da da.
And I might get lost in my trauma and my finances actually become used as a weapon against me to validate trauma.
So instead we have to say,
all right,
hold on a minute.
None of that's true.

(57:47):
You do need to address the finances,
but you need to address it by using it as a tool for your healing.
When you look at it in a situation,
it's,
it will bring up for you in our work.
Because whatever emotions and thoughts and beliefs come up when you look at your financial state of affairs,
it's actually really,
really good cat catalyst for inner work because our egos are heavily attached to money here because it just happens to be the thing we use to survive in the past.

(58:22):
It would have been something else,
you know,
but for now what's relevant for all of us to understand is your ego is heavily attached to money,
which is why it is the thing that couples fight about 70% of the time.
And it's also why it stresses us out and causes us so much suffering and people literally kill themselves over it.
It's because our egos are heavily attached and there's a loaded messages in there,

(58:46):
there's loaded,
subconscious messages of what we think about ourselves,
what we think about the world,
what we think about the system,
what we think about money in the first place,
right?
Like money is evil like,
right,
you're gonna need to expose all that.
And so in order to truly handle your finances,
like Ash is saying,
we want to obviously make sure and say,
and how you're going to do that is not only taking the practical steps,

(59:09):
but the real solution will come down to doing your inner work coming down to healing your your perceptions of what got you there in the first place.
So for me,
you know,
one of the biggest things was to heal my delusions.
But see,
it's like,
why did I become a delusional person?
Because I was too insecure.

(59:31):
Pride is the wound of insecurity.
And I had anger issues.
And so I felt disempowered in life and that's where anger comes from is when we feel disempowered,
it's the wound of violation.
And so when I would look at my financial situation and know that it's not what I want it to be out of insecurity and feeling violated.

(59:53):
The way I usurp some of that power back is to become delusional.
Go up into my little head space where like I can make it all right in my head.
Don't worry,
I'm aligning,
I'm manifesting on this and I went into these delusions all as a protection mechanism.
100%.
I know that denial is a mechanism of pride or tiktok would say denial is a river in Egypt.

(01:00:15):
There you go.
There you go.
So,
so when we did this healing,
that's what we had to go through.
And a large part of this was honestly me because Ash had the healthier relationship with finances and effort and work.
She,
if anything needed to learn to trust,
relax,
needed to actually,
I mean,
I wasn't healthy by any means,

(01:00:36):
y'all like my work was and I'm still working on.
It is to get out of survival mode is to trust.
I had like zero trust.
But if you're with a delusional partner,
you going at the same time because as you ground down to reality,
you feel I feel more safe and I trust and circle repeats and it's been a really beautiful healing for us and we have other episodes.

(01:01:03):
Yeah.
Last,
last episode we went over that one a lot.
But flipping these dynamics,
this one is just basically like the enlightenment,
like become enlightened through your finances,
I guess maybe we'll title it something like that,
like becoming enlightenment through paying off your debt.
It's like we're just inviting you all to change your perception of it and stop seeing it as an annoyance or 3d or whatever and start to understand that it is,

(01:01:38):
it is part of your enlightenment.
It's a simulator for you to do your inner work.
It's purposeful in your life.
It is developing your character and whatever it's bringing up for you,
the discomfort,
the fear,
the hopelessness,
the grief,
the pain,
the pride,
the denial.
It's like,
can you see it as a catalyst for bringing your awareness deeper into those things?

(01:02:03):
Yeah.
And if you,
if you,
if that's all new to you,
get the inner workbook,
go through all 15 themes of consciousness and how to identify them and,
and,
and we even have a section over debt and how all the themes perceive debt 100%.
We,
we,
we should read that on the in a work podcast right now or at some point right now,

(01:02:27):
I think the book is right there.
You could just grab it.
We're going to read to you how and then we'll close off this.
You can self-identity and it will be a really good indicator because then you can go get the book and you can read how to deal with it.
But how,
where are you in your,
in your development,
your character development.
When it comes to finances,
there's 15 different themes of consciousness and each one perceives them differently just to,

(01:02:52):
we just go to go to because that one is accountable and do what you need to do,
which is basically the message.
I think it's the first nine themes.
So here we go because after that,
it just gets better and better and better.
So let's just identify the wounds,
the wounds and where we want to get to,
which is accountability to face our finances.
And so as we read these,
ask yourself,
is that how I feel about my debt.

(01:03:13):
Is that how I feel about my money?
Is that how I feel about my finances?
Right?
Ok.
So from when we have a wound of rejection or like unworthiness,
in other words,
extreme debt may be seen as proof of our curse existence and worthlessness.
Like I said earlier,
it's like it gets used as validation for see how rejected I am suicide may even seem like the way out.

(01:03:33):
Right.
That's usually what happens when we,
when people are in this theme and they're just completely consumed in their debt,
in judgment.
We may obsess on our debts as demonstration of our stupidity or how wrong we are for having it.
Like,
oh,
that was stupid.
I shouldn't have bought that.
I'm,
I'm an idiot.
I shouldn't have done that.
We judge ourselves or we can project blame on the credit companies or the system for how vile and wrong it all is for enslaving us the bank,

(01:04:02):
it's the currency,
it's the system,
it's the government,
it's always someone else's fault and overwhelm the wound of overwhelm.
Our debt is completely paralyzing.
This is like when we just can't even look at it,
we can't,
we just,
we just avoid it.
We possibly give up on making payments as if it as it seems pointless to even try.
So we're just like there's no way out.

(01:04:22):
Uh And so we just feel like the accruing interest will just keep us trapped forever.
Ok?
When we're in the wound of loss and regret,
we might dwell on how much we are losing every day through interest.
Damn it,
the interest like every day I'm having to pay more.
We're just grieving and feeling like,
fuck,
I'm not,
I'm just always losing and falling behind.

(01:04:42):
We might regret our purchases and be like,
you know,
I never should have done that.
That was,
I just like,
I wish I wouldn't have done that.
And overall feel our situation is sad and depressing.
Ok?
From the perspective of the wound of distrust,
which is the emotional theme of fear.
We may look at our debt with paranoia and we scare ourselves with worst case scenarios.

(01:05:05):
What if we'll never be able to pay,
pay this back?
What if they take the house?
What if I lose everything,
right?
What if,
what if they come after me?
What if they repo this or that?
What if my kids can't do this or that or go to college?
Whatever your thing is?
All right.
So that one's the wound of distress.
So we're just constantly in,
in anxiety about it,
in the wound of in adequacy,
which is the emotional theme of,

(01:05:25):
of desire and attachment.
We're starting to do a little bit of a pivot here.
We may see debt as an opportunity to chase our pleasures.
This is me in my delusion and are excited to spend money.
We don't actually have yet because we're manifested and it'll all come back so that we can get what we want now.
And so in order to compensate for a wound of inadequacy,

(01:05:49):
we fill the void with pleasure seeking and purchasing shopping,
uh which we know that's consumerism.
Basically,
this is how the consumerism gets run here outside of your means,
being in denial of your credit card.
Yeah,
exactly that you cannot pay back like then going into bankruptcy A did,

(01:06:12):
ok?
So when we have the wound of violation,
the emotional theme and anger,
we may view our debt with annoyance,
frustration or even rage at the accruement of interest.
Cursing aloud each time we receive an unexpected bill which feels violating.
Another way this might point out is we just are pissed off at the markets at the Federal Reserve that's been going on recently.

(01:06:34):
It's a very common one.
Uh just pissed at,
at it all,
you know,
and,
and just frustrated with the systems and with customers just like mumbling under your breath every time you get a bill just constantly being in frustration.
Ok?
Next up is the wound of insecurity will and this is the emotional theme of pride.
We'll either be overly obsessed with things like its credit score or its wealth,

(01:06:58):
things like that and its smartest and best use of,
you know how it's managed its debt and credit or it will use debt to inflate its appearances through expensive or impressive purchases.
But in reality,
we hide incredible amounts of insecurity and debt accumulation.
This was another,
well,
they feed it into each other.

(01:07:19):
You know,
when someone has got a wound of inadequacy and a wound of insecurity which are very similar to each other,
you use,
you're using one is chasing like when we have a wound of in adequacy,
we chase after pleasures to,
to make us feel adequate.
Whereas when we have the wound of insecurity,
we purchase outside our limits to,

(01:07:39):
to be impressive and to kind of like have pride.
Like,
look,
I'm better,
I'm doing better than my friends or whatever.
Ok?
From here,
though,
we finally crossed the threshold and in the theme of accountability,
debt is finally seen with the integrity of honor.
You know,
I borrowed this money with the,
with the agreement that I was going to pay it back and I knew what the interest was and I said yes to this.

(01:08:05):
So we commit to paying back our debts by courageously doing what must be done to repay even if it takes a lifetime.
So we say,
you know what my word in honoring what I said I would do is most important.
And so we do what we need to do.
That was awesome.
Those themes are found inside the inner workbook and it continues to go on into the higher themes of willingness from there.

(01:08:30):
It just gets better and better love and you get into true freedom and lasting happiness and all that comes from doing inner work.
But I think it's really important to address because all those themes are the actual reason why we're not dealing with our finances.
And we use spirituality as a scapegoat when really it's coming from one of those wounds.

(01:08:50):
And so it's like in the disguise of enlightenment in the disguise of un attachment and in the disguise of I'm,
you know,
so spiritual really,
it's just covering up an unhealed wound because if we were accountable,
we'd be doing what we need to do.
We'd be handling our staff paying back our debts,
being financially stable and not putting ourselves in fight or flight and caring for our basic needs.

(01:09:15):
And also if we're in a partnership or we have a family that is like baseline level of a requirement for health,
for health in our family,
health and our relationship is that financial stability.
So to reach a accountability means we,
we need to address those wounds and,

(01:09:36):
and it's ok if it's scary if it's overwhelming,
that's part of the biggest thing that,
that people misperceive when it comes to accountability and courage is we think someone who's really courageous and confident doesn't feel fear or these like wounded themes of maybe feeling inadequate or insecure or or frustrated like no,
no,
no,

(01:09:56):
those are,
those are going to be there but you learn how to,
you learn how to manage them with grace,
I think is a good way to put it,
you learn how to feel it but take productive action anyway,
without it controlling you.
Whereas we read through that list that that's like it controls you.
Like my delusion controlled me.
For example,
I did not feel the insecurity and then show up to it anyway,

(01:10:19):
I do that now block you from being accountable.
Yeah,
like I literally was not being accountable.
So I just want to make sure and give some empathy and compassion on that is,
yeah,
I still feel insecure or,
or frustrated or this or that from time to time or I feel still feel like a,
you know,
a sense of loss sometimes but it doesn't paralyze or control.

(01:10:42):
It just is like,
yup,
I'm human and this is part of being human.
Is my ego has natural emotions,
it goes through,
but I don't let them consume me.
We just keep showing up to it with accountability,
love and grace and move through it.
So it's ok if it feels a little daunting,
learn to sit with that and be at peace and just says,

(01:11:04):
a testimony to conclude here is that our life did improve when we got our finances,
right?
Much spiritual like Matt said,
and all the spiritual work he did the most benefits came from just going deeper into his humanness and dealing with the most mundane things in life.
Our life has drastically improved since making finances a priority from a spiritual lens.

(01:11:29):
You take all those spiritual teachings with you and be a Yogi as you pay your bills,
be a Yogi as you go to work,
be a Yogi as you pay your taxes.
And our life is so much better from addressing it from doing something about it.
And so we invite you to be a Yogi and pay your bills.
Be a Yogi.

(01:11:50):
Make,
get a savings,
be a Yogi and pay your taxes.
Be a Yogi and pay off your debt and do your chores and make your bed every morning and keep your house clean and do it all like a Yogi and that's it.
I hope you guys enjoyed.
Again.
The biggest things to really help with this is the inner workbook which will guide you through a lot of the wounds that could be causing the issues that will help you really expose what could be underneath a lot of this.

(01:12:22):
Uh and will also really help drive home.
The message of everything is relative.
You know,
that's kind of the whole message of the book is there's all these wonderful spiritual teachings.
But what the inner workbook does is take you through in a step by step way.
And a really cute thing we have heard from people who have read it is they'll say,
you know,
I read up to say anger and the wound of violation and then I had to stop because I couldn't,

(01:12:44):
I couldn't keep going because I,
I was like,
yep,
I'm stuck here like I can't work past this yet.
And that's a really fun thing because it allows you to feel a sense of direction and structure to where you are in your journey and also what's next for you.
And that's really what the book guides you through doing is taking it one step at a time and understanding that you don't need to jump up to like some out enlightened state.

(01:13:08):
You can actually just work with wherever that is for you because that's where you do need to be and every step is just as important.
And then the other thing too is if you,
if you love these conversations,
as we mentioned a few times throughout this,
this conversation today was we do have our teacher training and if you want to learn more about yoga,
true yoga philosophy,

(01:13:28):
true,
uh become a true,
genuine,
authentic yoga teacher that is beyond just teaching us and poses.
But really understanding the deep inner work and psychology of yoga.
You can study with us at sacred yoga institute dot com and we would love to get to know you more in,
in there.
Yeah.
And then as the final resources go check out Brad coaches for get your finances right?

(01:13:52):
And um shout out to them,
we love you guys and I think that they are more way more qualified to help you get your finances in order than we are all we can do is is encourage you,
encourage you to start that journey and we can of course help,
help you with your inner work surrounding it.
But they are the teachers who will help you take actual action in looking at your budget,

(01:14:16):
looking at all those things.
So go ahead and look them up and check it,
check them out on Instagram.
And then other than that,
thanks for listening.
And I guess I'm getting nervous because I've never asked anybody for this.
But if you have liked listening to us,
can you leave us a review?
If you've liked listening to the inner work podcast,
we would really,
we're really trying to be more consistent with filming these.

(01:14:39):
We really enjoy doing it and it would help us so much to grow and spread the podcast.
So whether you're listening on itunes or Spotify,
if you could give us a review,
give us some stars and tell us what you like about the show.
We'd really love your feedback and it would mean so much to us.
So,
thank you so much for listening and not stay.

(01:15:00):
I stay until next time.