Andrew Kirima: Cantos VC

In this episode, Joel Palathinkal chats with Andrew Karima from Cantos VC about his transition from football to entrepreneurship and venture capital. They discuss the roles of product management and content creation in VC, the interview process, and skills development. The conversation covers investment in deep tech, nuclear energy, renewable energies, and quantum computing challenges. They compare university innovation with online platforms, merit-based employment, and the importance of proof of work. The episode also touches on traditional education versus skill-based learning, personal branding, and preparing for a VC career, concluding with insights on the metaverse and future media technologies.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
So, like, if it's bad, it's bad.

(00:02):
It's, you know, it's whatever.
But I was always just kind of intimidated by,okay, I write an article and then a bunch of
people see this, and they could just think it'scomplete crap.
But I don't know something just kind of woke upin me right before the pandemic.
And I was like, you know what, I'm gonna startthis blog and I'm gonna write and I'm gonna

(00:22):
read a bunch and I'm gonna figure it out.
Welcome to The Investor, a podcast where I,Joel Palafinkel, your host, dives deep into the
minds of the world's most influentialinstitutional investors.
In each episode, we sit down with an investorto hear about their journeys and how global

(00:43):
markets are driving capital allocation.
So join us on this journey as we explore theseinsights.
Alright.
So looks like we are live here with AndrewKarima at Camtos VC.
Andrew, I met him through our Slack channel,and we've always just been picking each other

(01:07):
and keeping in touch, and we're able toactually do a deal flow sharing call, you know,
a couple couple weeks ago talking about deeptech.
So, you know, I think it'd be really great foryou to tell us about your story.
You know, you you didn't start out in BC.
So I think hearing that, you know, path of howyou navigated into BC from being an operator,

(01:27):
being a tech person, and, you know, possiblyhow you were able to make that pivot, I think
it'd be maybe a good start.
And then maybe you can talk about some highlevel topics around deep tech and where we
think the future's heading.
How does that sound?
Yeah.
Of course.
I'd to say I probably have an atypical route,but I've come to see after all these interviews

(01:50):
that I think almost everybody's route into VCis atypical.
So atypical is pretty typical.
Anyways, so let's let's start from the verybeginning.
I'm born in Kenya.
As you can see the flag behind me, moved to TheStates when I was three, lived most of my life
in Washington State.

(02:13):
It was when I was little, I think just I waswatching Star Wars and Star Trek, I fell in
love with just like sci fi and future andbuilding things, right.
So I was new, I wanted to be an engineer.
But alongside came high school, middle school,you know, I started really getting into
football.
So I kind of shifted my focus a little bit.

(02:36):
So after high school, I decided and go decidedto go play football at a junior college.
Did that for a couple years.
But after a couple years, just seeing all myfriends just, you know, enjoy their lives at
college while still, like, focusing on whatthey really wanna focus on reminded me is like,
hey, I really wanna be an engineer, or I wannabe a builder of some sort, entrepreneur.

(02:58):
So I was like, you know what?
Yeah.
I'm done with this.
Hung up the cleats, decided to transfer toUniversity of Arizona to get a degree in
systems engineering and a minor in electricaland computer engineering.
While I was there, my senior year was probablymy first entrepreneurial endeavor.
Me and some other classmates, we started astartup named Facade Technologies for our

(03:21):
senior design project.
And as you guys know, senior design projectsusually just go with, you know, an already
established kind of company and whatnot, but wewanted to do our own thing.
So that's what we did, and we built this kindacool little toy tool, Facil.
It was desktop application that can automateother desktop applications through Python APIs.

(03:48):
So, yeah, we kinda did that.
Things went well.
Had some momentum going on past after wegraduated.
Unfortunately, I graduated from the unfortunateclass of 2020.
And so we went from there.
And along the way, we just decided to separate,go our own ways.

(04:10):
No hard feelings or anything, but everyone elsekind of had like some other aspirations.
And so yeah, we just open sourced our software.
And that's kind of, yeah, that was the end offacade.
And me, I was still hungry for the wholeentrepreneurial you know, I was still inspired
to be in innovation.

(04:31):
I wanted to be in an innovative ecosystem.
And so from there, I just look for otheropportunities.
Was looking into product management at thebeginning.
I'd never saw myself as just jumping into beinga founder at first.
I thought I wanted to take it easy as a productmanager and then maybe flow my rank and flow

(04:56):
into, like, a startup and then maybe start myown company one day.
But Sure.
That didn't end up happening.
I did an internship as a product manager for aVC firm, a startup too.
And so that led me to Central Credit, and I wasvery compelled about the problem they were
trying to solve.
Then Centro was trying to solve the problem ofcredit.

(05:20):
Right?
And we were so we were trying to build a debitcard that can build credit.
And so I was with them for a year, and thingswent well.
I ended up becoming the CTO slash kind ofcofounder.
And but along the way, I met a lot of people.

(05:40):
That's when I really started meeting a lot ofpeople in the tech ecosystem.
Yeah.
Just for reference of time, this is about lastyear, midway through 2020.
And I was like, you know, and at the same time,I started right I started a blog just writing a
bunch about deep tech because that's, you know,what that was always gonna be the angle for me.

(06:04):
And eventually, after deciding I wanted topursue a career in venture capital And think
three or four months later, I decided to gointo VC.
And so I was kind of juggling between that andcentral credit.

(06:24):
On how I found Cantos is I was just applying abunch, trying to get my content out there,
started actually interviewing other foundersand just stakeholders in the deep deep tech
ecosystem.
And that brought me to Ian.
And at the time he was looking for an analystthat had an engineering background, and that

(06:49):
already had his own content.
And that's and then we had a talk and he'slike, hey, you know, I like what you're doing
and whatnot.
And you kind of already have thatentrepreneurial drive.
So yeah, I'm looking for a hard tech analyst.
And that's just what I ended up being forCantos.
And I ended up loving what I was doing forCantos so much that it kind of just took away

(07:14):
some of like my focus from Sencha and at thetime Sencha two had other plans.
And so not too long ago, I decided to actuallyleave Sencha and just come on full time on
board with Yeah.
Cantos and just focus So on what else is inSencha,
you know, you were doing a lot of productmanagement.

(07:36):
What are some of the skill sets?
I guess, tell me a little bit about the skillsets and your role at Sencho, and then how that
helped you become a good VC and and land therole.
And and, you know, I'd love to learn a littlemore about how you convinced Kantos to bring
you on.
Yeah.
Was the role more of like a volunteer role inthe beginning and then maybe you created your

(07:58):
own role?
Because a lot of times right like if we want todo something in life and somebody's not gonna
offer it to us, we have to create our own roleand you know sometimes that role doesn't exist
until you help people understand that that'simportant, right?
So we'd love to know a little more about likehow you were able to kind of just really break
in to the VC fund from from Yeah.

(08:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I don't think actually a lot of it had to dowith my actual skill set that I from Centra.
I did learn a lot of things about leading ateam, managing a team, and how how difficult it

(08:40):
really is to be a founder and get things going.
So I did have a respect for the business, but Ithink more so what Sentra did for me, it
brought me to the ecosystem and because I was aCTO and I'm trying to like meet all these
stakeholders and all these investors and peoplewho could be advisors and just all these people
in the tech ecosystem.

(09:02):
Then I started interacting with people in theventure, a lot of venture capitalists and other
deep tech founders as well.
So yeah, I I would say it was based off that alot.
But one big thing for me was my blog and justwriting content.

(09:24):
It was, I think, the the beginning before thebeginning of the pandemic.
And I always said this for years on yearsthroughout college, that I was gonna start my
own blog.
You know?
One day I wanna write my own book.
So but I was always kinda scared too because Iwas like, man, I don't wanna it's one thing to
write an essay, and then only your professorsees it, you know?

(09:46):
So like if it's bad, it's bad.
It's, you know, it's whatever.
But I was always just kind of intimidated by,okay, I write an article and then a bunch of
people see this they could just think it'scomplete crap.
But I don't know.
Something just kinda woke up in me right beforethe pandemic, and I was like, you know what?
I'm gonna start this blog, and I'm gonna write,and I'm gonna read a bunch, and I'm gonna

(10:11):
figure it out.
But so that did lead me to that kind of fearstill took me three months to finish my first
article.
Then I started reading about how, hey, you needto write more and more and more if you wanna
become a great writer.
And you just gotta be able to ignore all thecrap, you know.
And so I just started writing a bunch.
And then that along with my blog, along withall the people and I was meeting in the

(10:38):
ecosystem
Yeah.
Kinda gravitated me toward like a venturecapital route.
And so now, let's say, 2024
So so you wrote the blog and then did you howdid you engage with Cantos?
Did you just give them the blog and say, hey,We'd love to talk about your thesis.
Here's here's a deep tech blog that I wrote.

(10:59):
No.
I to go back on your question too about whetherI Cantos was making, like, I made a position
with Cantos now.
Ian Rountree, our GP founding partner, verymuch was looking for analysts, and he I just

(11:20):
kind of, like, bugged him a bunch.
Yeah.
Because I knew if you wanna get the attentionof the VC, one email is
not going
to cut it.
I fucked
up It's kind of a fine balance, Because youdon't want to be so persistent that it's
annoying.
But you also want to be persistent that,because a lot of times it's not that they're
trying to ignore you, as you know, now thatyou're in VC, it's really that you have so much

(11:44):
in your backlog.
You're looking at five deals actively possiblygoing to go into diligence and you've got seven
or eight that you're actively asking questionsabout and following up on and then you've just
sourced and screened another one.
So you're like in a different stage withmultiple deals at the same time.

(12:05):
And then you could be fundraising if you're anemerging manager as well.
So that's a whole other beast when you'retrying to balance that with trying manage
portfolio support.
It's not I feel for me, it's really just notany function of trying to ignore people or
avoid people.
Maybe they do want to talk to you.
It's just it didn't hit like the queue yet, youknow, because you got five other things.

(12:29):
So you kept on kind of, know, non invasivelyjust kind of following up.
Yeah.
In a non annoying way.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And I tried getting into other firms too.
Cantus was in the first, but Sure.
I just had to, like, I'll just try.
And then each time I'd fail, I'll just kind ofchange my formula and then Yeah.

(12:53):
Try again, you know, and it eventually worked,know, I had my opportunity.
Sure.
And, you know, did they have any formalinterview process?
Did they kind of grill you on just yourknowledge of deep tech or was it really just
kind of a bunch of conversations?
Because in the past, I've I've wrote, you know,the interview process for me, I was quite

(13:15):
fortunate, you know, I just, you know, had along meal with the GP and had several
discussions, and then I was fine.
But there are people that go through theofficial process, right, where you gotta, like,
you know, build a build a a financial modeland, you know, forecast out participating
preferred versus non participating preferredand
Yeah.

(13:35):
Then do a lot of quantitative questions.
But you know sometimes it helps if you got arelationship with somebody and there's somebody
that has a specific need quickly and you'reable to kind of be the person that can address
that need.
Yeah.
And no, because Ian, you know, he has a reallygood telehealth character, and he usually knows

(13:59):
he knew what he wanted immediately.
Yeah.
On the type of analyst he was looking for.
And for me, a lot of the vetting processhappened before we even had our first meeting.
Like he just looked at my blog and found somepodcasts that I was in and just kind of looked
at my history and then was like, okay, kind offits that bill and then wanted to have a

(14:22):
conversation with me a couple times.
So it wasn't like this very long formal fivemeetings kind of situation.
But it was also even when I was brought on tothe team, still had to, you know, kind of prove
myself and to see if I was going to be a memberin the long term, you know.
Yeah.
It wasn't just Oh, hey, now you're on the team.

(14:43):
It's all good.
And even then every day, I'm sure I'm stillcompeting to be better, you know, and so yeah,
but he's a real chilled, laid back guy.
He's not like, you know, your typical VC therewhere you're gonna think of like, oh, this is
very antagonizing kind of figure.
No, he is a very friendly guy.

(15:04):
And yeah, he'll give you opportunity where hesees fit.
And if you deserve it, then he will give it.
Sure.
No, that's great.
And you know, tell me some of the skills thatyou think are important to possibly be an
analyst.
And then you know as you mature, what are somethings that you're thinking about as you grow

(15:25):
in your career as a VC?
So to progress, because you're probably in thatinflection point now, What do you think it
takes to graduate from being an analyst to nowan associate?
Yeah.
I would say one, it's your recognition on dealflow and the speed that that happens.

(15:45):
It's taken a very long time for me tounderstand what what necessarily what does that
kind of company look like?
That kind of company that we're looking for?
And, you know, being able to pick up on thosesignals.
Also, just it's a lot of the language, A lot ofthe diction.

(16:08):
There's VCs have entirely their own dictionary.
And you know how most people don't even knowabout BC till they write six months to a year
before they try to break in.
Yeah, there's a lot of words and a lot ofverbiage that you're going have to learn.
And even now I'm still trying to get used tothat.
Yeah, can you

(16:29):
give us a little bit of a crash course?
So you know, jumping in, you know, with withbeing an analyst, what are some, you know,
buzzwords or just pieces of terminology thatyou you think we need to know?
And this is good for me to make sure there'snothing new to me.
Yeah, some common jargon, I would say, well,defensibility and building a moat.

(16:53):
Yeah.
Being able knowing what when you have somethinggood, you have a great IP, how is you as a
company can actually protect that down theroad?
Yeah.
So that's what the indivisibility.
Well, plenty of other jargon.
Just I don't know.

(17:14):
It's just kind of all over the place.
I think I've kind of done so used to it nowthat
it's like,
it's kind of harder to just like kind of popoff my head.
Yeah.
For particular words.
Sure.
I mean, look, this is a that that's exactly howI am with restaurant recommendations.
If if I thought about it, I could probably, youknow, rattle off 20 restaurants.

(17:34):
But Yeah.
If you ask me on the spot, completely go blank.
I I
have
Yeah. No
No restaurants for you.
Ask me another time and I can be like, look,here's 20 amazing restaurants to to visit in
New York.
Yeah.
I can tell you though, what things now that Iknow that I didn't know too much before and
even when I was sent wasn't essential, like inpreparing a pitch deck.

(17:58):
And what immediate things that investors wantto see, and that's things like, okay, you got
your well, you got your problem, your solution.
But more so than that, how much impact can yoursolution actually make?
Going again on what I said with defensibility.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How can you how are you gonna build your moat?

(18:19):
At Cantos, part of our philosophy, a huge partof our philosophy is the seven powers.
And between all those seven powers, we believethat usually we would wanna find a company that
has either corner resources, counterpositioning towards incumbents, and, you know
but yeah.
So there's and market opportunity, obviously.

(18:42):
We always want to find to TAM, the fan, what wecall feature addressable markets.
Feature addressable market.
Feature future or future?
Future addressable market.
Got it.
Yeah.
So so what's the future comparable to?
I guess that's a because the TAM is like thebiggest market size.

(19:04):
Right?
So Yeah.
Would the what how would that be different thanthe future?
Because wouldn't the TAM be achievable still inthe future because it's too big right now for
us to think about?
Or is it, you know, a decade from from now
or something? Yeah. No. We're
something?
Yeah.
No.
We're looking at decades.
I mean, gotta think about deep tech.
A lot of these companies that deep tech Yeah.

(19:26):
That deep tech investors will invest in Mhmm.
They're probably not gonna make those venturebackable returns in, like, ten to twelve years.
Correct me, there's probably a bunch that have,but it's very rare.
I mean, the deep tech ecosystem is justemerging and we're just at the beginning right
now.
No.
We talked about this.

(19:46):
I mean, there's a couple companies that you andI have spoke about that have such a long
horizon.
They could outlive a venture fund.
Right?
So it could be probably a fourteen to fifteenyear horizon for the company to be commercially
available.
And most venture funds are usually seven to tenyears long as far as their limited partnership

(20:07):
agreement.
So how do you think some of the venture fundsare handling that with with deep tech?
Are they just, you, you know, this is just youropinion, right?
Do you think they're just managing thoseexpectations with the LPs or do they have more
of a fund structure that is like a twenty yearfund?

(20:29):
Yeah, not
sure how that's handled because I mean, youbecause you guys are mainly doing deep tech.
I mean, I focus on deep tech and then a coupleother sectors so that, you know, the time
horizon is less when it comes to b to b SaaS orconsumer comparatively when you compare that to
to deep tech.
Yeah.

(20:49):
I I don't know.
Because I have not seen there's no, like, thiskind of framework that I've seen from really
any other firms on preparing for a twenty yearhorizon.
It's kind of quite in that range that you justsaid ten to fifteen years for most.
And really, all you can do is just, I mean,diligence, diligence, diligence, and talk to

(21:14):
advisors and people who've done it and beenthere before.
Yeah, to
see is this actually something that couldhappen?
Cause really, I mean, when you talk about deeptech, we're looking into the far future here,
you know, we're, we're talking about marketsthat sometimes might not even be here yet.

(21:35):
They might not even actually exist.
And that happens a lot of times, you know.
But yeah, so really, all you can do is just doyour best on diligence and talk to the right
key pieces of subject matter experts in thoseareas.
Yeah, and I was a sci fi nerd myself, watchedStar Wars and Back to the Future.

(22:00):
So what are you excited about?
What sectors or what industries or technologiesare you the most fired up about and and just in
general, excited about?
One thing I'm very excited about is nuclearnuclear energy, advanced nuclear energy

(22:21):
precisely, and just these new models of fissionreactors that are to come that are coming into
play.
And I mean, there's fusion, but fusion, Ithink, is a way bit out there.
But it's great because it could be likecompletely changed the entire world.
Yeah.
So yeah, nuclear energy.
And that is something to there there's been fora very long time, like, this anti zeitgeist to

(22:47):
nuclear energy.
And but people a lot of people don't know that,like, 20% of The US is powered by nuclear
energy.
So it's kind of and that's through power plantsthat have a very old, you know, infrastructure.
So, yeah, there's okay.
Nuclear energy.

(23:07):
I've always been a geek on quantum computing,space.
Real quick before quantum, you unpack fusionversus fission?
And I don't, do you remember the movie TheSaint with Val back in the nineties?
So in The Saint, was that fusion?
And that's like energy powered by water, right?

(23:28):
I'm not sure.
I never actually watched that movie.
Oh, you didn't?
Okay.
Yeah.
It's a new movie because they talk I think it'snuclear fusion.
Yeah.
But it's
a it was a whole concept of like how a gallonof water could like power a city.
Yeah.
But could you unpack that for us again?
I I had a long discussion about both a fewmonths ago and then I I kind of lost I forgot

(23:50):
some of the context, But if you could unpackthat, that'd be really great.
Yeah.
So from a high level, just vision splitting theatom, fusion bringing the atoms together.
Sure.
But to achieve nuclear fusion, you need likesix to seven times hotter than the sun itself.

(24:11):
So it takes like very powerful magnets and verypowerful, very robust structures to contain
fusion, fusion reaction, or plasma actually.
So that's why I'm saying from technical riskperspective, that is pretty way off.
But vision, which is the The US, the DemocraticParty, actually, for the first time since I

(24:39):
think 1980, I can't know off the top of myhead, but for like about forty years, actually
accepted fusion in fission into their plannuclear powers.
And so one thing that's come up that's verypopular, small modular reactors.
So just decreasing the size of reactors, whichmeans a lot safer and also more mobile and

(25:04):
flexible.
Sure.
Okay, so that's that's definitely interesting.
And where do you see the innovation happening?
You know, you talked about smaller reactors.
Is that gonna really replace the traditional ACand DC electricity that we have now?
And then how does that compare to greenhydrogen energy as far as the spectrum of

(25:29):
efficacy and commercialization?
Yeah.
So I think every every, renewables first hastheir part to play in this.
I don't think it's just going to be an all forone.
Mhmm.
I think SMRs are gonna be great in remotesituations, you know, areas where it's hard,
you can't just build, you can't just haveenergy storage and transmit electrical energy

(25:56):
over there, right, or just build a bunch ofsolar panels and whatnot.
If you're talking about our hydrogen as interms of hydrogen fuel cells or hydrogen power
in itself, hydrogen power like hydrogen, youknow, like generators from dams, I think
they'll still be around Same with solar andwind.

(26:16):
Yeah.
But I don't see.
Hydrogen fuel cells, I think.
I don't see where they're gonna really play,and I think they're very far off.
And then even then, hydrogen fuel cells havebeen known to be very unsafe.
So not sure how that's going to happen.
But, yeah, as far as nuclear energy, I thinkit's going to top off as the number one.

(26:42):
But we'll see.
We'll see.
Because as in as far as transportation goes,transportation is the greatest emitter of
greenhouse gases.
Yeah.
And that's gonna require just a lot ofelectrification, whether semi trucks.

(27:03):
What else?
By by sea, by even planes might go towardselectrification.
So, it's it's it's all very interesting.
I guess it just depends on what technology isgonna mature the quickest because I think
really the only thing stopping nuclear isourselves.

(27:26):
But a lot of other technologies, it's notourselves that are stopping that from
happening.
Like lithium ion batteries, they're just superheavy, and we haven't figured out enough about
energy storage yet to make commercializesomething where there can be a very dense, like
a lithium ion battery.
So, yeah, we're still in the learning stages ofthat.

(27:48):
But, yeah, that's kinda how I think it'll playall out.
But, so I'm very pro nuclear as you can hear.
Sure.
No, it's really exciting and and talk usthrough quantum.
I guess you know there's still a few years awayor several years away from getting to a

(28:08):
commercial state.
And, you know, my knowledge, it's really aboutthe stability of the quantum bits and the
circuits, right?
It's just, if you get to that state, you know,there's just an issue with it being super
noisy.
So right now we're in the NISQ stage forquantum.
But tell me some high level takeaways of whatyou're excited about and what you see in the

(28:31):
future for quantum.
Are there any interesting companies that youthink are doing some innovation right now in
the quantum space?
Yeah.
So I mean, there's so the goal is to get tofault tolerant, right, where we can reduce a
lot of that noisiness and Yeah.
A high coherence.

(28:52):
So I can't speak too much on a lot of what isactually going on with the technologies and the
architectures because there's a whole lot ofdifferent architectures here.
And yeah.
So there'd be a plenty of people out there whoknow a lot more than I do.
I'm just like a huge fan and been trying tolearn as much as possible.

(29:15):
But, yeah, there's some interesting stuff goingon there.
I won't lie.
There is a bit of ambiguity, and I think I'vepicked that up actually from jump jumping into
VC because before VC, I was like all proquantum computing and everything.
And now I'm like, okay.
Yeah.
They these are the actual realities, you know.

(29:38):
So and you can't really tell the time on whenthings are gonna happen.
But the day that we do crack the code and wecan get to at least fault tolerant quantum
technologies, it's gonna change a lot ofthings.
But that affects that's gonna affect all sortsof other things.

(30:01):
But yeah.
That's yeah.
Yeah.
No.
It's really helpful.
And then what are some other high level trendsthat you guys look for?
And any advice on sourcing great deep techcompanies?
Traditionally, a lot of times I findinteresting deal flow just number one through
other VCs.
But I think it's also important to buildrelationships with universities because a lot

(30:26):
of the workbenches and the technology isincubated a lot of times at the university.
Then if they have a good support system, cancommercialize those and turn them into
companies.
So I actually do have a personal opinion.
This is even outside of the framework of Cantosabout, like, the whole university building.

(30:49):
Just from we've all known venture capital to bea bit of an exclusive bunch.
Right?
And when you talk about incubating withuniversities, the first things I'm gonna think
and what a lot of other people are gonna thinkare what your traditional Harvard, Stanford,
and yeah, and MIT.

(31:10):
And so my thing is, actually, I'd almost wantto refrain from that and go into kind of, like
what beyond deck is doing, you know, more ofthese online schools where it kind of gives
everyone an opportunity to be a part of theecosystem, you know, and can shine just as

(31:34):
bright as somebody from MIT or Stanford, youknow, and kind of give more of a level playing
field.
Because, you know, a lot of people do look atthat, and they'll be like, oh, that guy went to
Stanford and blah blah blah.
But I don't I don't think there should bethere's a lot of smart people that go to a lot
of other universities, and they didn't have thesame opportunity to go to those universities.

(31:55):
And that's just how it is.
So and no.
You know, you can't change the past or whatnot.
But Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm I'm I'm more pro on just the the virtualice out of guess university and the opportunity
that the Internet has given us already.
I mean, I came from University of Arizona,which is not a super prestigious school in

(32:19):
technology, but really just do navigatingthrough the tech ecosystem on Twitter and
LinkedIn.
And that kind of brought me to where I amtoday.
Yeah.
No, that's I completely resonate with youbecause I think in the future, you know, might

(32:39):
change to doing tasks to prove the need forproficiency.
So, know, there there's a fintech app that I'veseen recently that gamifies trading strategies.
And what you can do is you can, know,investment managers, for potential traders or

(33:01):
asset managers, they can paper trade using akind of like a algorithm or a simulated trading
experience.
And based on your trades and how yourperformance is, that gives you an overarching
score.
And then you can send that score to a hiringmanager.
So I feel like those stats and that data couldeasily outperform a resume because a resume

(33:26):
could completely be fabricated.
People could write whatever they want and andbe whoever they want.
But if you build something for employmentscreening, which makes you do a task that gets
graded in a data driven way, it truly is merit.
And it also breaks down boundaries ofprivilege, right?

(33:47):
Because you could be in a small town in India,and as long as you have internet, you have an
even playing field.
If you're just a good trader and good atanalyzing the market, then somebody who comes
from a privileged upbringing in New England,right?
Because at the end of the day, who can findbetter deals?

(34:10):
And as long as you have internet these days, Imean, we've all been working remote, half of
the demo days are virtual.
That that means that anybody can do this fromanywhere.
Yeah.
As long as you have a good connection.
Yeah.
Well, you know, one thing I actually said todayon Twitter about finding those great deals, I
think a lot of it comes down to don't be ajackass.

(34:34):
You know, just be open to listen to otherpeople.
And I believe it personally, it's our fiduciaryresponsibility as investors to give that time
of day to founders even even if it's not a dealthat you particularly want to take in or you're
not very interested in to at least give them asolid response.
And you know you can't get back to everybody,but that those things.

(34:59):
I think that momentum builds and you don't seeit at first.
Yeah.
But down the road, it's gonna come kind of likeget karma come back to you, you know, and help
you get in on those deals or somebody saidsomething, somebody, something to somebody.
And Yeah.
You know?
So I think just being open minded, not tryingto be like, oh, he wasn't this cookie cutter

(35:23):
type of founder.
So, yeah, that's just not me.
But yeah.
And yeah.
Exactly.
Going back to what you were talking about.
I know I kinda went off a little bit, but Mhmm.
I am I one of my favorite interviews I've hadon my deep tech dives was with Drew Belcock.
And one thing he brought up to me, and I'vebeen saying this over and over again to all my

(35:45):
friends, proof of work, always proof of workover proof of knowledge.
Like, showing people, hey.
Here's the work rather than here's the degree.
Like, you know, if you want to be an engineerat Google and think, I think Google just
released this now that they do accept engineersthat are not coming from universities.

(36:07):
And so, yeah, not too long ago.
And so it's really just, hey.
Do you wanna be if you wanna be a softwareengineer in a big tech company, build
something.
Build something that a big tech company woulduse rather than go to school.
And there are there are a bunch of other prosfrom going to school.
And, you know, I I'd still advise for it, but Iunderstand not everybody can do it.

(36:32):
And but I still want everybody to have the sameopportunity.
Sure.
Yeah, it depends on your goal.
So money is what Warren Buffett says.
So money is what you pay, value is what youget.
So if you're paying money and it's expensive,but the value outweighs then in your mind it

(36:54):
could be worth it.
But if you're paying a lot of money and you'restill unemployed and you're still looking for
work and you're not in the industry that you'rein, that's a problem because you spent a lot of
time and money.
So I think, you know, that's why the rise of alot of these, you know, programs where people
can change their life and their career in twomonths, two, three months.

(37:17):
We're heading towards a skill based economy,right?
So if you want to do well in a job, you justhave to have those skill sets versus a degree
or a badge.
Because the badge, I think it's good formarketing or personal marketing, right?
Branding.
And it helps, obviously, if you write a book,when you give a lecture, it shows some type of

(37:44):
authority.
So I think doing things to brand yourself inthe right way is half the battle.
There's people that are not super talented atcertain crafts, but they story tell really well
and they brand themselves really well.
And that also opens up a lot opportunities.
So I think just a combination of both, So ifyou have a great degree from a really top

(38:11):
university, as long as you're able to achieveyour goal, I think it's I think it's really
helpful.
And then if you can, then, you know, there'sother communities and platforms like OnDeck
and, you know, what we're doing with VC for forjust more of a supplement to that.
Yeah.
Maybe accelerate that.
Yeah.
And I mean, I'm not taking away from what theydid.

(38:31):
That is still very impressive.
And, you know, they are still they're thatdifficult to get into.
So it's that much more impressive.
I'm not taking away I'm from just trying to belike more of, okay, just because somebody isn't
that shouldn't mean you should think less ofthem.
You should look back at, okay, what is theactual physical work they've done first?

(38:52):
Yeah.
You know, then take it from there.
And there's so many other industries where youcan do that.
The whole apprenticeship model.
Just look at accounting.
What better way to learn accounting thanpossibly do a tax statement.
Do like a K one for somebody and just do it andhave somebody look over your shoulder.

(39:15):
But there's a lot of value in doing the actualwork and then proving that you can do it
because that's what you can talk about as anexample when you're trying to get a full time
job.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And, you know, kinda going back to when we weretalking about getting into VC.
So, I mean, Ian didn't make the job, But in myway, was thinking, okay, if I want to crack in

(39:40):
to this very exclusive kind of industry, thenI'm going to have to do something that a lot of
people haven't done.
So I instead of waiting for somebody to give mework, I just started looking I started
interviewing deep tech founders.
I started writing articles and content overdeep tech stuff, the stuff that kind of stuff I

(40:02):
would have to analyze.
So Sure.
You know, proving the work rather than tryingto wait for the proof of knowledge.
Yeah, exactly.
And then I think also, we hear this lot and Ialso agree with this.
Just if you're not a VC, really start livingand breathing like a VC.
So start sourcing deals.

(40:24):
A lot of this content is available, you know,through networks and communities.
And it's available on Google and YouTube.
You can learn anything these days on thosechannels.
Right?
So if you wanna learn what the key things arethat you should know when you're sourcing a
deal, you know, it's probably somewhere on theInternet.
So you can take a first stab and put together amemo.

(40:45):
Right?
I mean, there's so many templates.
I think Bessemer Venture Partners posted all oftheir memos.
Right?
So you can take a professional memo and justtry to build something that's similar to that.
And then I think also doing your homework,right?
If you're invested, if you're interested in adeep tech fund, understand the deals that they
invested in.
I guess what would be your approach if you'restudying a fund?

(41:07):
What are some things that you should look at?
I'm assuming obviously the portfolio companies,but what are some other things that you would
recommend if someone else is trying to breakinto any kind of fund?
Yeah, well, one, it depends on what levelyou're like, what are what are you trying to
break into?
You trying to be a partner?

(41:27):
Are you trying to be an analyst?
So she will one figure that out first beforeyou even start looking at funds.
Mhmm.
Figure out what that is.
And then once you know that, then in each firm,everything is very much different.
It's not like a lot of big time companies wherethere's kind of like this robust schedule and
everything.
Everything's all over the place, you know, andeverybody has their own way of doing things and

(41:51):
getting things done.
So you gotta look at, okay, what is that persondoing and kinda work backwards from there.
What what did they used to do and what theywhat do they do now?
If for for instance, if you're looking to be ananalyst at b capital, and so you can just go on

(42:12):
their website and easily find a few analysts atb Capital, and then look at what they're doing
right now and go backwards from that.
Go on their social medias.
Everything's out there, like you said.
Nothing's hidden from anyone, and you can verywell see, oh, okay.
This person was actually writing a bunch.
This person was doing a bunch of podcasts.
We're not this person's very interested intothis.

(42:33):
And then also another thing to look at,obviously, is philosophy of any VC firm.
Think they'd be really impressed to know thatyou already understand the way their firm runs.
Yeah.
And that I mean, that would just be an add on.
But again, you need as many add ons as you canget.

(42:54):
Yeah.
No, I agree.
And you know, when it comes to justunderstanding the moat, you know, when it comes
to some of these sectors, what are some of theways that you can understand the tech barriers?
Do you go deeper into the circuits andunderstand the components?

(43:20):
You're muted.
Can you hear me now?
Yeah.
Can hear you now.
Yeah.
No.
I was just saying, know, when you look at deeptech, when it comes to hard tech especially,
how do you analyze the tech barrier?
I've seen some deep tech people really go downto the hardware level and look at the
schematics.

(43:41):
When you're diligencing these kind ofcompanies, what are some of the mandatory
things that you should do to kinda check offall the boxes for diligence?
And how do you see that different than, like,software and b to b SaaS?
Yeah.
So I guess one thing okay.

(44:02):
One thing we always like to look at, going backto the seven powers, corner resources.
And so a lot of what corner resources requiresis IP.
So you want you'll literally just quite check.
Okay, what are the patents?
Do you plan on actually having patents?
You know, counter positioning, network scales Imean, network economies, scale economies.

(44:28):
So what could this be when at scale?
How is this going to defend from incubants?
And what they've done before?
Is this a model that if successful, likeencounter positioning, will it be something
that would be so hard for incubate andtraditional legacy players in that industry

(44:52):
revert to, you know, for instance, like whenTesla, when Tesla came out EV, it was really
hard for o n g companies to catch up and justthey couldn't just, oh, hey.
Let's change the production lines and startpushing out EV cars, you know.
So that that's that's a lot of what we look forin mode.

(45:15):
And so a lot of our yeah.
A lot of our entire framework is based off ofseven powers, and that's how we get that.
And so, okay, so what are the things to lookat?
I I I think it has to do with just recognition.
After
you've
seen enough deals, you've done a lot ofdiligence.

(45:36):
There's times too when I'm doing some deepprojects.
It's not just your regular.
Oh, let's see where they're from.
What's where do they go to?
What are their markets?
What competitions that they won?
But I'm actually like doing some research on myown, like some research projects on my own to
see like stress tests a lot of what they'resaying.

(45:58):
And, you know, it's always good to see thatwhat they're saying is actually factual.
And then, again, going back to advisors andseeing if these things are real, and then you
should be able to kind of surmise whether thereactually is a moat, you know, to build.
And actually, Ian has an entire article overthe all our entire, like, philosophy and

(46:24):
framework that we follow with backed off of theseven powers.
So that might be something good to share withyou after.
Yeah, this is great.
I'm looking at a lot of your portfolio here.
What is still super far away?
You know, there was recently, I think a lifeextension company that Bezos backed.

(46:47):
So what are your thoughts on longevity and lifeextension?
Altos.
So Altos Labs.
Yeah, I actually read about that not too longago.
And I think I think it's very interesting.
I think it's interesting.
There's a lot of doctors and scientists wholook at anti aging, I mean, as as aging as a

(47:08):
disease, you know, that has not been theregular rhetoric.
But obviously, I don't see it happening anytimesoon.
These are one of those now more moonshot.
I would say we're moving more into the moonshotphase of things to come in like 2050 to
02/1940.
But Yeah.
To be honest, I am not the biotech expert atSure.

(47:31):
Kantas.
Not even close, but I I'm very interested inlife sciences, and I like to peek in and out,
but I don't try to even like understand most ofwhat happens.
All I know is I know genome sequencing in 2000was like millions of dollars and yeah, And

(47:53):
yeah.
And CRISPR didn't actually become accepted,like, in the scientific communities until,
like, maybe ten years ago.
And that Illumina has been a big part ofbringing genome sequencing down, but there's
still a goal to get genome sequencing down tounder $100 So there's things that we still have
to figure out before we will figure out antiaging and, I mean, just disease and drug

(48:17):
discovery.
I think drug discovery comes first before antiaging.
I know they're not necessarily the same twoproblems, same two beasts.
Sure.
I would assume drug discovery, being able tofind any unique drug to cure a unique disease
for whatever person comes before us figuringout how we can really extend to two, three x.

(48:44):
And I'm talking about two, like, over twohundred years and stuff like that.
I'm not talking about like one hundred andtwenty to one hundred and fifty years.
I think that's already, I think we're alreadycapable of that.
Yeah.
I think human beings are already capable ofthat.
Got it.
Do you think they could be capable just from ahealthy lifestyle and supplements?
Or do you think there's still technology that'sneeded to get to 150?

(49:08):
I think, yeah, I think technology is notrequired to live to one twenty or Sure.
Or over 100.
Let's just say I'm gonna be safe.
I don't think technology is required.
I've even had my own family members back inKenya that I didn't meet till I right before I
went transferred to U of A and met a lot ofpeople who were, oh, like older than 100.

(49:32):
But obviously, unfortunately, whenever theywould come upon disease, because there's not,
you know, the best, then life can end early.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I don't think it's a requirement.
But if we do want to push the boundaries, yeah,we say genetics says is like the boundary right
now, then we do.

(49:54):
Technology will need to be required for that.
Yeah, no, I totally agree.
What about extensions of your appendages?
Right?
So there's there's brain control and there'sdifferent things that you can do to control
your brain with Neuralink.
But I was talking to some of the other deeptech VCs and there's a lot of things that you

(50:17):
can do without implanting anything.
So with Elon Musk, obviously he implanted adevice into the pigs, but there's a lot of cool
technology that, you know, like shift controlops, right?
Like they could put something on your wrist andyou can kind of like, you know, move something
and actually control something from really faraway.

(50:37):
So, yeah,
I think that's really powerful if you couldlike orchestrate something with your hands and
actually met and, you know, and actuallycontrol a crane or do large scale tasks with
which is kind of a I would say it's the noninvasive BCI.

(50:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's almost like the the, you know, theexperience.
I forgot the movie, the famous movie, with the,with the guy that was in the machine and, and,
it was a, I forgot the name of it, but
yeah, sorry.
Yeah.
But, yeah, no, that stuff is very interesting.

(51:20):
There are
a few things I can't go fully.
I can't fully dive into because I have seensome very, very interesting companies that have
done some
some
mind blowing things.
But there is, I can't say though, noninvasiveBCIs out there that can really help bring us,

(51:40):
you know, closer to I would like to say that,what Ray Kurzle likes to say epoch five when
kind of like the convergence of humanintelligence and human technology.
Yeah.
I've always been a great proponent of the bestway for us to live with technology is to adapt

(52:00):
to technology.
So but a lot of people right now already saythat we're cyborgs, just external cyborgs with
our phones and But yeah, I think non invasiveswill come along.
And then I don't know.
I can't tell when invasive BCIs willcommercialize.

(52:23):
And Yeah.
That was just because it's just going to be anightmare at first to commercialize those even
even with FDA approval.
And I know Neuralink has FDA approval, but
Yeah.
Just how realistic are you gonna get?
Just realistically speaking, how are you gonnaconvince somebody, hey, we're just gonna blow
this chip into your brain.

(52:43):
You know, we couldn't get half the world totake, I mean, half of America to take vaccines
because they thought the chip was gonna getinto them now.
Yeah, exactly.
So it's the avatar.
That was what I was know, blanking out on.
But, know, it's just all, you know, the avatarexperience where you're kind of sitting at
home, but you could be someone else or dosomething that could be very difficult.

(53:08):
Right.
And then there's a whole that gets into playwith other things too.
Like imagine doing a surgery from home.
I mean, the big issue is like latency, but ifyou can solve that, you can do an open heart
surgery or you can do maybe a low risk surgerythat's highly accurate and high fidelity where

(53:32):
you can do remote.
Because right now a lot of times telehealth isstill limited to nonphysical procedures.
You can kinda do do a a a consult virtually,but once you have to try to examine people,
that's where, you know, you you can really,really do that remotely if you have, like, more
of the avatar kinda like experience where youhave some type of gloves or something, and you

(53:56):
can kinda examine people virtually.
Yeah.
I mean haptics and and all that stuff has tocome into play as well, I'd say.
Yeah.
And I think also a lot of what you're talkingabout just being another person.
And I know you're talking about more in thephysical sense, but I think a lot of that will
come from the metaverse with VR and AR.

(54:16):
And I mean, just kind of, and I think there'sgoing to be a link edge between non invasive
PCIs and metaverse you know bands sure like theOculus and stuff.
Why not would you kind of have that control inthere and then be yourself.
That's kind of like that's where that happens,that convergence Yeah.

(54:38):
For what you're talking about with Avatar.
So Some people might eventually prefer themetaverse versus reality.
Some people?
And some for some people for some people themetaverse may be real life and reality is a
metaverse.
Right?
So it could be
Hey.
I mean, you're saying some people earliertoday, I just read an article about how TikTok

(55:00):
became the number one streaming viewingplatform over YouTube in So the when you say
some people, I don't know if it's just gonna besome.
We still have a social dilemma on our handsthat skyrocketed over the pandemic.
Yeah.
And so now we have no idea what is going tohappen.

(55:21):
So I mean, yeah, there's deep tech promises alot of great opportunities, but there are also
there are those possibilities of, you know, usalso kind of ruining ourselves and going to
that, you know, dystopian kind of framework.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I don't I don't think that's I'm I'm I'm anoptimistic person, so I like to oversee the

(55:46):
glass half full.
So I think it will help us for the better inthe
long end.
Why do you think you know?
Do you got a couple more minutes to chat?
Yeah, go ahead.
Why do you think, know, do you remember SecondLife?
Why do you think Second Life didn't work out?
Because I remember playing with Second Lifewhen it came out and it was a lot of fun and it
was almost like a metaverse, right?

(56:06):
It's a virtual, universe.
You can go to a bar in Second Life.
You can start your own city.
You can meet people.
And then they used to have that video game, TheSims.
So why do you think some of those platformsjust died out or lost adoption?
And then, what is the big difference with thatin the metaverse?

(56:29):
Is it really because the metaverse is tied to alot of the cryptocurrencies and there's real
currency that you can use?
Yeah.
I would say the metaverse is nowhere near beinglike, when you a lot of people frame the
metaverse, what what are you gonna jump to?
You're gonna think of Ready Player One.

(56:50):
Weird metaverse is nowhere near that.
You know, it's nowhere near like, when I thinkwhen people are speaking about the metaverse
and virtual reality, we're talking about thatworld where you literally can be someone else
and you feel as if you're someone else.
But yeah, so until that happens, I don't thinkwe're gonna get there.

(57:14):
Yeah, I've tried I've tried a little AR headsetfrom one of my friend's dad's, and it was it
was cool and everything.
But after some time, it kinda gets boring andold, and they're very, very expensive.
Sure.
They're very, very expensive.
You know?
I'm not gonna pay 500 to the $1,000 to just usesomething kind of mediocre right now.

(57:36):
Yeah.
Have you used the HoloLens?
I haven't used the HoloLens.
I haven't used anything in Oculus yet.
I'm just kind of
The HoloLens blew me away.
So I I got invited to a demo maybe five yearsago when the HoloLens came out, and it was
probably the most amazing thing that I saw.
The only issue is the field of view, like, cutsoff right here.

(57:58):
So if you look around, you don't really feelthat immersed.
But what I saw in this region was really,really amazing.
Like, so you could look around and see three dobjects.
So I'm just, you know, kinda disappointed.
It hasn't gone farther.
And I think the real way to do it is reallyhologram.
So going back, everything goes back to StarWars.

(58:20):
Right?
So I mean, you know, I'm waiting for TVs tojust be holographic.
Like, it it should look like you're almost youhave a play in your house.
And I'm waiting for I feel like that's thefuture of media and it's a 2021.
We should have holograms by now.
Like we should be able to watch like, you know,billions in like, you know, in hologram.

(58:43):
Right?
Yeah.
We're not there yet.
So I I don't know if you have any thoughts onand sorry I'm extending.
I usually don't go longer than the hour, but
No.
You're fine.
Kinda nagging out here.
Yeah.
I can do this for days.
But like, have you thought about media and justthree d more immersion, holograms?
I mean, I've always been thinking about that.

(59:04):
And I think to do it, need, I think you needlike some type of three d projectors to be able
to project
They've done that.
The hologram.
They've done that.
They did at Coachella.
Like, yeah, Coachella and Lapalooza.
Yeah.
They had two
And that was so old.
And if they could do it then
I know.
They can easily do it right now.
Yeah, and I kind of agree with you.

(59:25):
I have never even actually kind of thought ofit that way that a quicker route to
commercialization is
And there was a movie, there was a GI Joemovie, I forgot which one it was, but it was
really cool because somebody would callsomebody and they would actually talk to the
hologram.
So you would, you know, the hologram wouldactually appear and it's like we're we're

(59:47):
talking, but the person kind of teleported inas a hologram.
Yeah.
So that would be cool as well.
But you know, we're not we're not there yet.
So but yeah.
Think media media has not really evolved sincethe mobile phone.
Right?
You've got just mobile ads.
I mean, the iPhone, to be honest, has notreally changed since 02/2008.

(01:00:10):
The form factor, it was big and then it wentback to small and it's small.
It's actually small now.
Again, they brought the small phone back.
And the and that phone actually looks like theiPhone.
I think it was the iPhone four.
So Yeah.
They're just taking old models from ten yearsago and and bringing them back.
So Personally, I think Apple is what they hatedso much back in 1984.

(01:00:35):
So that is that is where I kind of stay withthat.
But, I mean, they still have some revolutionarytech and all around great UI UX.
Honestly, I think my autocorrect has gonesufficiently worse, and I think it dates back
to, like, iOS 11.
It it's just I I will sit there battling withmy own autocorrect Yeah.

(01:00:58):
To send the message that I actually want tosend.
It's like it keeps on reverting back and I'mlike, this is ridiculous.
They're trying to force you to just speak inemoji.
So that's what they're trying to do.
Probably in memes.
Yeah.
And then everything will come full circle.

(01:01:19):
It'll be the Egyptians.
Yeah.
I know.
Right?
Yeah.
Exactly.
Going back to the Egyptian time.
But two more two more things.
So tell me about Dallas.
Is that where Kantos is based?
If not, just tell me about the ecosystem thereif that's evolving.
Had a
lot of people from Houston recently be part ofSutton Capital's program.

(01:01:41):
We would love to maybe just hear a quick updateon Dallas and the ecosystem there and how it's
evolving.
Then maybe we can wrap up with, if anybody hasany questions, they can just shout them out.
And then I wanna hear maybe a piece of advicethat you have for us.
Yeah, so I'm actually one I'd like to say I'mactually in Austin.
I don't know too much about Dallas ecosystemother than I've heard some great things too

(01:02:05):
over there.
Cantos is headquartered in San Francisco.
Yeah.
But Ian still allow me to come out here.
Thought it was a good idea to improveecosystem.
Actually, in the next weekend, we're trying to,like, formulate this momentum and energy for,
like, unofficial Austin tech week.

(01:02:26):
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna start to get to actually meet alot of the people over here in this ecosystem.
So I'm pretty excited about that.
Sure.
But now in the two and a half weeks I've beenhere, I absolutely love it, and I think there's
a lot of opportunity out here to capture.
I think it's similar to Miami, which is a tadbit better, though.

(01:02:47):
Yeah.
Because I think it's a fill of some very hungrybuilders and people out here really coming to
make something great.
Yeah.
But, yeah, the ecosystem over here is awesome.
And I I just just the beginning of reallygetting induced into it.
Yeah.
And they got the huge university there too.
So just a lot of times, the universityecosystem, there's there's the whole, you know,

(01:03:11):
demo day and the student funds and students andtickets and all that stuff.
Are you
seeing And the incubators. A lot
A lot
Yeah, the incubators as well.
Tax transfer offices.
I've been highly involved in the emergingmanager movement.
Are you starting to see people in college startmore syndicates?
Or kind of in ecosystems that you're hangingout in, especially in Austin, are you hearing

(01:03:38):
people just want to start funds as much as theywant to start companies?
Yeah.
I've heard about it and I don't know too manypeople directly, but every single time on
Twitter, just people that I don't really know,maybe like just retweeting.
It's like, hey, I just launched my fund, butI've heard of a lot of dorm type funds.
There was actually one fund that was named dormfund.

(01:04:00):
And, so no, I've heard of this whole VCsyndicate emerging manager at a very early
stage, which is very surprising to me because alot of people didn't even know when me growing
up, people didn't even know what VC was otherthan like my friends who were like super
dedicated to being one one day, you know.
So it's I think that's a good sign.

(01:04:22):
I think that means venture capital is beingdemocratized a little bit more.
And a lot more people know about the people whoactually, or help nurture and make decisions
into the future of innovation.
Because that is that is what really privateequity is.
And venture capitalists tend to be the firstones to see what's going to happen.

(01:04:43):
And Mhmm.
Not to give it take anything away from thefounders, you know, because there's they're the
actual builders.
And Sure.
But, you know, we we get the first glance at alot of these things.
Yeah, and you shared a lot of wisdom, so Ireally appreciate all that.
It was really helpful.
Anything else that you wanna share frompossibly a mentor that you'd like to have us

(01:05:06):
take away with us?
Anything from maybe a relative or a mentor thatinfluenced you and something that's kinda stuck
along with you along the way as a life lesson.
Yeah.
I think one was a lot of life lessons that I'velearned recently that have really stuck with me

(01:05:27):
have kind of come from Ian.
But let's let's let's go something a bitdeeper.
And I think it's one of my best friend's dads,Scott.
And he he wants I was like, hey, I don't wannaI'm not interested in golf.
You know, we were going to play golf with himand all his friends.
And he's like, that's that's interestingbecause you're all your friends are gonna wanna

(01:05:52):
play golf.
All your business partners, all your potentialcustomers are gonna wanna play golf.
So maybe you should just learn how to play golfwhether you like it or not.
And something that stuck from that is not I didnot become that much of a golf player.
I did not start playing a lot of golf, but hispoint was there's a lot of things, you know, a
lot of situations and a lot of socialsituations you typically that you may not want

(01:06:17):
to do, but a lot of other people that are inthe ecosystems you want to be in, in the
industries you want to be in want to do.
So you should learn or to do it or at leasthave a positive behavior about trying to do it.
Yeah,
no, it's totally fair.
I agree.
And I think another piece to that, which Iexperienced is, you know, one piece is not

(01:06:38):
wanting to do something, but another piece ismaybe not even taking the ideal job first.
Like if you want to get into VC, you know,don't want to be a tech operator, you know, you
don't want to work at a startup, but that couldbe one pathway.
There could be a great venture fund that's inthe middle of nowhere.

(01:06:58):
So you can't live in a really hip town ineither San Francisco or New York.
But if you do get that experience in Idaho at aventure fund, could really use that experience
to to go to a big city later.
But you gotta put the time in and and really,you know, really take take the value out of

(01:07:22):
that opportunity.
So
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Great.
Well, this was awesome.
Andrew, I really appreciate it.
Sorry we ran over, but sorry.
No, not at all.
I was nerding out a little bit, so
I appreciate it.
Yeah.
No, I do this all the time.
Every single like podcast interview, I kindaalways go overboard, but no, thank you very
much.

(01:07:43):
Was great to be on board.
And if anybody over here wants to reach out tome or talk to me about anything deep tech
related or just wants to nerd out some more.
Yeah.
You can always find me on my Twitter or email,andrew at
k Please please keep contributing to our Slackchannel.
I mean, Andrew has been really awesome justposting his content in our Slack.

(01:08:05):
That's how I actually met Andrew.
So thanks for, you know, always being a hugecontributor to our community and sharing the
educational knowledge.
And I'm gonna drop this recording in Slack aswell.
So Yeah.
Hopefully, can continue the the sharing ofknowledge.
Appreciate it.

(01:08:25):
Good night.
And thanks for