July 27, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode, Diana Swinton from Suffolk Technologies shares her insights on venture capital and the construction technology landscape. She discusses Suffolk Technologies' investment focus and her startup experiences, highlighting challenges and future trends in the sector. The conversation explores the pandemic's impact on construction and the shift to hybrid work models. Diana draws lessons from Dell's networking strategies and emphasizes the importance of evaluating early-stage companies. The discussion also covers trends in construction tech, including labor, security, marketplaces, and asset management. Diana concludes with advice for aspiring venture capitalists and extends an event invitation.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's not something that at most kids, wanna gointo.
(00:04):
And so it's definitely a concern for theindustry, especially during the fact that
building's not slowing down.
In fact, building is is speeding up.
Suffolk for Suffolk construction has a fiveyear backlog of projects, so we just can't
build stuff fast enough.
Welcome to The Investor, Investor, a podcastwhere I, Joel Palafinkel, your host, dives deep
(00:29):
into the minds of the world's most influentialinstitutional investors.
In each episode, we sit down with an investorto hear about their journeys and how global
markets are driving capital allocation.
So join us on this journey as we explore theseinsights.
Go live, Diana.
And, hey.
(00:49):
It's really great to see you again.
I it's you know, I think we met, like, prepandemic, and we were able to do one of these a
while back.
Good to really great to see you again.
And it's strange, I've been actually connectingrecently with a few people pre pandemic.
I don't know what it is, but it's it's beenjust really great to kind of just finally
reconnect with people.
I posted something on LinkedIn today, becauseit was really crazy.
(01:13):
So I was part of this hackathon exactly aboutten years ago.
And the guy that I did the hackathon with justrandomly reached out to me like today.
And when I looked at his profile, he had likethis photo of us and we're like little kids and
like we won the competition.
So I found the photo and I like posted.
(01:34):
Was like, oh, has anybody talked to somebody?
Has anybody reconnected with somebody from likea decade ago?
But I'm glad that I got to reconnect with youin less time than a decade and good to see you.
And I know you've made a couple transitionsthen.
And it sounds really exciting about thosechanges.
To catch everybody up, why don't we start fromthe beginning and talk a little bit about your
(01:57):
background, your education, how you broke intoVC and then and then we can go a little deeper
on your current role at Suffolk Technology.
So we've got Diana Swinton, who's an investorat Suffolk Technologies.
So really excited to go a little deeper.
Yeah, sure.
Absolutely.
So I actually set out originally, in myeducation since we're going deep here.
(02:22):
I was going to be, essentially like a, like,like a diplomat.
It was kind of where I was, was I was shootingfor.
Out of college or in college, I met a bunch ofmechanical engineers and we actually started
building a startup for a vertically verticalbike rack, vertical space saving bike rack.
And that kind of, you know, me the world ofbusiness and it seemed more exciting than than
(02:47):
maybe, you know, working in an office all day.
So, I still, I guess I still work in an officeall day, but that's not the point.
So so anyway, so I went down the business pathafter school and and started out in marketing,
then quickly realized marketing is being eatenby data.
So very quickly got on the data science route.
(03:10):
And one of my professors for my master's degreein analytics, essentially recruited me to work
for EMC, which was then getting acquired byDell.
And so quickly became part of the team, insales operations for Dell EMC, worked in in the
data science group there.
Ran a bunch of programs for sales operationsand sales teams, and kinda kept thinking about
(03:35):
startups and entrepreneurship and all thatstuff.
Started actually a series in Boston for startupfounders to share stories of failure, kind of
having my failed startup and we can talk aboutit.
We don't have to later, but wanted to kind ofshare those stories because they tend to be
more instructive than just, you know, likeSteve Jobs, all of a sudden overnight success,
(04:01):
that type of stuff.
Kind of developed a network aroundentrepreneurs in Boston in particular and kind
of have that data science focus.
And so it kind of fortunately, Dell has aventure arm, Dell Technologies Capital.
They were looking for somebody in Boston with adata background.
And so it was a fortuitous kind of way to joina venture group, from that side.
(04:27):
And again, it was really because, of thenetwork that I've developed on my own.
And so I worked over there for about two and ahalf years.
And so as you alluded to earlier, just recentlyjoined into, into a new group, new CDC, Suffolk
Technologies.
So Suffolk Technologies is a spin out fromSuffolk Construction.
(04:48):
Suffolk Construction is a $5,000,000,000general contractor based in Boston.
They do premier projects all around thecountry, skyline changing projects, very, very
respected builder in the world, in The US.
And so, a couple years ago, the founder JohnFish essentially realized innovation is coming
(05:14):
for construction and wanted to get ahead of it.
And so he spun out a bunch of a series ofbusinesses, under the Suffolk umbrella and
Suffolk Technologies was one of them.
And so our mandate is really to find newcompanies in construction tech, and invest in
them.
(05:35):
And we think we have a really unique model inthat construction companies and especially tech
companies, they need access to operationalexpertise, they need access to testing their
projects.
And so being closely aligned with SuffolkConstruction really helps us to do that, to
(05:55):
help our portfolio companies, not only to helpthem grow, but also to then transform the
industry and really make an impact.
So it's a lot more involved in many ways, butit's also one of the few ways that I think a
venture capital group can really be successfulin this market because the diligence we can do
(06:16):
is much deeper in many ways.
I'll pause there.
Yeah.
Well, I don't wanna embarrass myself with, likethe startup that we pitched for the startup
demo day that, that that we were at like tenyears ago, but, but I wanna hear about your
startup, how you came up with the idea, andwhat do you think made it fail?
(06:37):
Because I think, look, you gotta you gotta failto learn, right?
So I think, you know, let's talk about that andthe origin story and what triggered you to do
that and, know, did you do it part time?
You do it full time?
So love to hear all about that.
Yeah, yeah.
So it was a vertically, vertical space savingbike rack.
It had a really cool design.
It was circle.
It was an eight racks in a circle.
(06:59):
So it could go around a tree.
You can go like it was freestanding.
We sold a bunch to the university.
So I went to McGill in Montreal.
So I think they're still up.
So if you ever go and you see them up there, Ihope they still look good.
But yeah, so there were a couple issues withkind of how it got, like, I guess why we
(07:22):
failed, right?
So first and foremost, we had a team of seven.
So, you know, in the student fashion, we wantedeverybody who, you know, had a touch of the
idea.
We wanted everybody to be involved in thecompany.
And that's just not how companies work,especially early stage companies.
They're just kind of a lot of a lot ofdifferent cooks in the kitchen.
Then the second part of it is ultimately wethought we were going to sell to end users, but
(07:49):
really our customer ended up being like thearchitect department of the university.
And so we just weren't aware of how to makethat sale right into in it because those are
hard sales to make you need to have a lot ofcity connections, which we just didn't have.
And so ultimately, because there was nobodyjumping up and down saying, I'm going to make
(08:14):
these sales, and because there were seven of usand too many voices.
Then we also, part of us graduated and it waskind of a transition period for a lot of us.
So, we kind of just on the personal or likethe, I guess the personnel, I should say, and
the kind of product market or I guess customerfit wasn't there.
(08:37):
I still keep a list of bike racks whenever I goto a new city and I see bike racks.
Still have like photos.
I think I have a Pinterest wall somewhere ofall of them.
It's definitely definitely still still on themind whenever you're going.
How did you design it?
And then how did you acquire customers?
Not to, like, make this like a like a VC, dealflow meeting, but I'm just curious.
(09:02):
Yeah, so we really we went to cities and we'relike, hey, like, do you want buy this?
And so we sold it to Miguel in particularbecause they had their obviously privately
managed land being the campus.
(09:22):
What was your first question?
Oh, I was just, yeah, so I guess you know it'smore organic, just kind of, it's essentially
enterprise b2b sales, just kind of selling to,I guess, where university is the main, ideal
customer, because and how did you sell it toMcGill?
I guess, was it a project, like was it like anentrepreneurial project for McGill to like
solve problems for McGill?
(09:42):
Is that how you kind of had a warm shoe in?
So how it started actually, so the MechanicalEngineering School at McGill, they, one of the
classes runs essentially like a workshop type,like the whole semester is just a workshop.
So you get like a customer to come and givethem give you a problem.
(10:04):
Oh, cool.
And and and then the students work on it.
So that's why we had a lot of students becauseliterally what happened was that the
engineering kids students, they're not notkids, but they have the mechanical engineering
problem.
And then we heard about it.
And then I was taking a marketing class at thetime and we're like, well, hey, let's make this
(10:25):
into a business.
We'll write you a marketing plan for your, forthe product you just built, in your semester.
It's kind of like two, it was like, I guess, ifyou wanna, it's like a spin out from like two
classes at a university.
So that was kind of the idea.
The background.
Really innovative model, I feel that that wouldbe really huge if they adopted that into the
(10:49):
accelerator model, like just having massive,because I feel like if you do that, know, I
remember there was a company, I forgot the nameof the company, but it was, I think it was
Farmigo.
So what Farmigo did is they built thisplatform, this software for farmers where they
could just immediately order.
I think the retailers could just immediatelythrough a platform order from the farmers.
(11:13):
So I think this the CEO initially talked to thecustomers asked what they need.
And then he built like a clickable mock up.
And then he said, look, if you want, I canbuild this for you, but this is what it's going
to cost.
So he got like his initial revenue from thecustomers to fund the first product.
And then I think if you have good legal terms,you don't have to be exclusive.
(11:35):
So they you know, they always say build onceand sell, sell twice, right?
So you can get your first customer to kind ofpay for the product.
And then and then once it's kind of funded, nowyou have a product that you get to do is sell.
So I think that's kind of a unique strategy.
But I think that would be a really innovativeaccelerator model where you have corporates
come in who have real problems.
(11:57):
And then you know, you just tell that to peoplethat can build very quickly or build
prototypes, and get it to market in likethere's your customer right there, your first
customer.
Yeah, exactly.
It's, it's that's exactly what happened andkind of the failure there was on the team's
part, right?
Like we just we should have gone after allarchitects and builders and then like, hey,
(12:17):
like put this in your new building.
Like hindsight is twenty twenty, right?
Having had like some time to think about it,that's what I would have done.
But obviously that's that didn't happen.
But I mean, it's still, it's still a cool idea.
And, you know, hopefully somebody does it,Steal it, do it.
I will I will buy it, put one, you know, Idon't know, somewhere in front of my house
(12:39):
maybe.
But Yeah.
But to your point, I you know, it's it'sactually kinda funny that you say that, like,
it's a good idea to have a business strategics,like come in and tell you their business
problem because actually that's part of whatwe're trying to work on at Suffolk Tech.
So part of part of what we do is called theboost program.
So we actually run an accelerator every fall.
(13:00):
And it's kinda like a YC count combinator forfor construction tech companies.
And so we select, you know, 100 to from from anapplication pool of a 100 to 200 companies, we
select six.
And we bring in strategic partners and we askthe we ask the startups to tell us what they're
working on.
And then based on the strategics that arehelping us evaluate these companies, we, we
(13:22):
then work with them for six weeks on thatproblem, directly.
So, it's, it's definitely a cool way to engage,you know, both the corporate world and the
startup world.
What are some of the biggest problems inconstruction tech?
Yeah, so like the biggest one that you'll, youknow, you've probably heard just from hearsay
(13:44):
too is just labor.
And so automation, automation of labor, there'sa huge shortage of labor.
A lot of people, you know, you know, post COVIDespecially aren't coming back and it's an aging
workforce.
So most construction workers are 35 years andolder.
It's not something that at most kids want to gointo.
(14:05):
And so it's definitely a concern for theindustry, especially during the fact that
building's not slowing down.
In fact, building is is speeding up.
Suffolk Suffolk Construction has a five yearbacklog of projects, so we just can't build
stuff fast enough.
There's not enough people, there's not enoughtools.
So, there's, you know, automation is probably athird of what we focus on.
(14:28):
And that can be, you know, it's pretty broadterm for us.
It can be something like a workflowcollaboration tool, all the way to like
robotics, right?
So, so we have a few investments in roboticscompanies that help with like automated layout
or drywalling, right?
And so, it's, it's kind of a huge, it's a hugefocus for the entire industry as a whole.
(14:51):
And then the other other things we look at, isjust improving processes.
So sustainability, financial services, youknow, there's, there's, you know, anywhere from
sixty to ninety days lag between people getpaid.
And so like how can you you know how do youenhance that process?
And then sustainability right?
How do we make make sure that how we build issustainable?
(15:14):
How do we make the buildings that we buildsustainable?
And so there's a lot of stuff around that aswell.
So in terms of monitoring the tools you use,the waste, cutting the waste that goes into
construction.
I'd say those are kind of the bigger the biggerfocuses for us.
(15:35):
Can you share a little more info on Suffolkconstruction, you know, because I know they're
working on $5,000,000,000 worth of, you know,development and construction.
So, what are the ideal types of properties?
Is it residential?
Is it corporate?
And is it mainly in Boston or is it all overthe world?
It's it's so it's nationwide.
(15:55):
It's all he was most of it is is in Boston.
It's mostly commercial, high end commercialconstruction, not not a lot of, like, some
residential, but not a lot, but a lot of, like,gaming.
So for example, if anybody's from Boston, webuilt the Angour Casino, you know, like a lot
of health care, a lot of transportation.
So we're working on, on the, on the BostonLogan Airport Terminal E, for example.
(16:19):
But it's nationwide.
So mostly Boston is where it started and wherethe bulk of the team is.
But there's also offices in Florida, Texas,California, and New York as well.
But, you know, building happens kind of allover
the
country, in kind of in those clusters a littlebit, You know, and then the kind of another
(16:42):
kind of emerging sector for us has been datacenters too.
So for, yeah, for clients that need, you know,the big tech companies that are focusing on on
a lot more cloud computing and all that stuff.
Yeah.
Do you guys, set up like the the ITinfrastructure tour?
Is it more just the building foundation and
(17:03):
It's just, yeah.
Suffolk Construction is a general contractor.
They do the building piece of it.
Yeah, no, that's really exciting.
Yeah, mean, think there's just so manyopportunities.
Where do you think the future is heading?
Mean, I know there's a lot of technology nowwhere, you know, homes are getting built on
their own, know, you can have robots kind ofthree d print, the homes and then you talked
(17:26):
about sensors, so, like maybe from a deep techperspective, where are you guys kind of heading
or kind of envisioning the future when it comesto construction tech?
Yeah, I think I think a lot of a lot can stillbe done in just the collaboration piece.
It's an extremely collaborative industry.
And and very few tools exist that arespecifically serving needs of the construction
(17:52):
industry.
A lot of it is off the shelf like, you know,like Microsoft March, like like like any any
other, enterprise, but there's there's still alot to do there, obviously.
So, like a seamless collaborative experience,you know, is something that we're going forward
to.
As like part of something we're really excitedabout is generative design.
So like helping with understanding how thecontractor can speed up the design process.
(18:21):
Because not in high end projects, you know,design piece has to take a long time, but it's
not the case for a lot of projects.
And so how can you how can you kind of helpwith that as a general contractor?
So that's definitely like like one aspect ofit.
And then again, like automation.
So like, is there like a collaborative robotthat can come in and and help with certain
(18:46):
parts of the jobs?
And then the, I guess the other part of it toois like data.
So data is actually coming in into constructiontoo.
And so like, you know, can we be better at costestimating?
Can we be better?
Can we use, you know, computer vision tounderstand what has gone into a constructed
(19:06):
building?
Can we record that?
Can insurance providers then use thatinformation to better underwrite insurance
claims?
So, so there's a lot, a lot of kind of new techthat is maturing out of the enterprise sector
that is now coming into construction becauseit's finally mature enough to be used in a
(19:27):
vertical sense.
Yeah, no, that's exciting.
And yeah, I think there's a lot of opportunityalso with just collaborating better.
I feel they have a lot of tools for softwarelike they've got, I think Figma when you're
when you're a designer and you're just you'redoing design, developers and product managers
and other people that indirectly are involved,they can kind of add comments and streamline
(19:51):
that.
I've seen a few three d collaborative toolswhere like if you're building a design, can
kind of come into a virtual world and look atlike the CAD model, like if you're building an
engine, right, you probably need someone to dothe design, but a lot of times what you design
sometimes can't actually get built based on thetechnology that we have, right?
(20:13):
So even though the design looks amazing and theengine looks really cool, like maybe just from
a physics standpoint or just from the weight oflike the vehicle, like it just can't really
happen in real life, so that's when you wouldneed an engineer to come in to check that, to
make sure that that actually can be done, andif you do it in more of a waterfall way where
(20:38):
like you do the designs first, then in series,send it to engineering, you may have to go back
and redo the work.
And then that kills the timeline.
So I think you make a good point.
So there's are you seeing that now?
Like a lot of three d worlds where people cancome in?
I know we're talking about the metaverse andeverything, you don't even need the metaverse
more of just kind of a three d collaborativeenvironment But and then like just real time
(21:01):
annotation, right?
Because you want to bring, this is just my lifebeing a software person, know, things that we
were always taught is like bring in engineersearly to the table because if not, you're gonna
have to do a lot of rework.
So I can just already foresee that in likethree d because the problem with three d and
actual physical products is once they ship itto you it's like a hard product right, so you
(21:26):
can't go back and you might not be able to geta refund but then also it might take another
six weeks to like refabricate it again versussoftware it's just kind of like a hey we'll fix
it in the software patch.
So, that's I feel like a big huge challengewith like with construction I'm assuming.
It is yeah and I think that's again like kindof what I touched on earlier.
It's it kind of goes back to the unique modelthat we have, and that are attached to general
(21:50):
contractor where we can test this technologyand get immediate, like, this is not gonna work
or this is a great idea, but we need to do likethese three things for it to be a usable
product in reality because it does to yourpoint like it it it's the physical space like
you're it's not a software patch you can't justyou know do overnight.
(22:10):
Yeah.
Gonna take some time and it and you're touchingreal materials, know, real real people for
security reasons or whatever.
And so there is a lot of that.
It's exciting in that sense because again, it'sit's been traditionally an underserved market
(22:34):
for venture in particular and I think that'swhy I think a good parallel is healthcare for
example.
Yeah.
A lot of you know a lot of generalist VCs arenot going to touch healthcare because they
don't understand it.
Similarly, they're not going to touchconstruction.
And at this point, you know, there's so muchgoing on that it's a good time to kind of be in
(22:56):
construction tech.
Yeah.
And how what are the changes that you've seenfrom when we were hanging out, like pre
pandemic to now, right after all that'shappened, what have you seen happen?
You know, which is kinda know, because there'sthere's if you guys are doing commercial
buildings you know a lot of those people leftand worked at home and now we're going back to
(23:20):
hybrid.
So is that kind of what happened or you knowwhat did you observe?
Yeah, so I wasn't I wasn't with this companyduring the pandemic or for most of the
pandemic, but Yeah.
But but from from what I know is that they wereconsidered essential.
So they actually never closed their doors.
Yeah.
They kept kept working.
Mhmm.
(23:40):
What I think was what what was interesting forthe company was that, hybrid actually came came
to them.
So so so I I came from tech where, you know,hybrid was already there.
Like, I was, you know, my team was in PaloAlto. Was
Was in there.
We were already like on Zoom all the timeanyway.
(24:01):
So it wasn't that big of a difference.
But I think for, for, for Suffolk, it was a bitdifferent because they did, start doing more
hybrid things.
And I think that's going to, to some extent,stay.
I think the preference is still to come in andwork in person because again, like it's, it's,
(24:21):
you're, you're building real buildings.
So you might as well go and see real peoplewhen you work.
But there is that element of hybrid, and Ithink everybody's kind of experiencing that
where where that's not going to go away forsome for some things and for some days, it's
definitely fine to to be remote.
Yeah, there's one thing too, just realizing youwere at Dell, I just finished Michael Dell's
(24:48):
biography and it was amazing.
It was really, really great.
His new one, I think it's called Play Nice, ButWin, and it kind of flashes back to his younger
childhood.
He started his company, I think even before, Ithink he started in high school, and he begged
his parents to quit college.
He ended up doing it, but he just really,really successful business person.
(25:11):
I met his brother at Goldman and haven't methim but you know just really inspired by his
story.
So I don't know if there's any you knowtakeaways or life lessons that you learned at
your time at Dell or just kind of the the waythat they do business that inspired you but
just wanted to call that out too just because Iread the book and I was really really happy you
(25:34):
know hearing about his story.
Yeah, So life lessons for me.
Interesting.
I think I'm still learning.
To be honest, I don't know if I'm I'm, youknow, you know, would you call it?
Equipped enough to, yeah, share lessonsnecessarily.
But I think, just in general, what has workedfor me is just being open with people, right?
(26:01):
Don't be afraid and like, talk to people, justgo ask the questions you want and literally go
meet who you want to meet.
Yeah.
They might, they might, you know, they mightnot like you, they might say, you know, never
call me again, or whatever.
But, you know, that doesn't typically happen.
People are generally nice and I think it's ithas served served me well for sure, especially
(26:27):
being in a network heavy profession.
Yeah, yeah, and I think there's there'sdynamics too with with big companies a lot of
times when you're at big companies, there's alot of bureaucracy, and you know there's
multiple levels of leadership if you want toget something done, but I think the companies
that do really well are the people that embraceyou know entrepreneurship where you can be kind
(26:49):
of an entrepreneur for your business unit.
I think it seems like Dell was doing a lot ofthat too with like the hackathons they had.
I think companies when they do that and kind ofembrace innovation and new ideas, it's always
really helpful to kind of come up with newideas and new solutions.
You know, I want to touch to teeing that up,know, your background breaking into venture
(27:14):
from a data background, you talked about thenetwork being a big piece as well.
So any tips that you have or any stories on howyou built your network and how you leverage
that network to achieve your goals, maybe indifferent parts of your life?
Yeah, I think, I think, you know, in terms ofventure, and I tell everybody, you know, like,
(27:38):
like, junior VCs, and all that stuff, like,there's such a network driven business that,
as, as, or I should say, in particular, likethe reason it's a network driven business is
because you need to produce deal flow and to dothat, a good network.
So, and so to the extent where you candemonstrate that you have deal flow, it might
be a network, it might be something else, itmight be a community you're a part of, right?
(28:00):
It kind of can show itself in different ways,but to the the extent that you can say or and
and show that you have deal flow, that that'sreally how you demonstrate your ability to to
understand the venture model.
And like the best thing you can do for aventure capitalist is to bring them a company
(28:21):
that they haven't heard of that is really,really cool.
That's like that's the golden star you'relooking for.
What feedback have you gotten in you know whenyou were going through that journey kind of
trying to network from from VCs as far as likewhat what is a good deal?
(28:41):
And obviously it depends on the thesis of thefund, but are there some common threads that
you've seen, you know, when you're puttingtogether a memo or something trying to trying
to break into VC or any tips that you've givento people as far as like the things that you
should call out when something is a good deal?
Yeah, it really depends.
(29:03):
It really depends on the funds.
It's kind of hard to say like this, you know,this this will be like
your your
Yeah.
Or the golden ticket or whatever.
But, you know, the three things that allventure capitalists look at or at least early
stage.
Alright.
Because because my focus has always been earlystage.
Think late the concerns change quite a bit.
But early stage you're looking at team,product, market.
(29:27):
And that's the three things you're evaluating.
I think for me personally in the beginning,I've always focused on the product and market,
but the earlier you get in a company the teambecomes more significant.
Yeah.
In consideration like is it a good team?
Is their product and their product might fail,but are is the team going to be successful?
Are they going to be able to have what they gotand you know build something else that's
(29:51):
better?
So it's kind of the dynamic.
Yeah,
yeah, no, agree.
Mean, always say team Tam interactions.
It's pretty much almost the same thing yousaid.
And you know, like to double click on, I thinkwhy you're saying it depends, you know, some
trends that I've seen obviously, right?
Consumer tech VCs are looking for, you know,MRR that's growing repeatedly, right?
(30:16):
It essentially needs to be something that theycan inject capital to and then they repeatably
see the MRR growing every month over time.
And then I think a lot of times withconstruction tech and probably even deep tech,
there's no revenue.
There's potential pilots that you're doing withbig massive conglomerates and you're hoping
(30:36):
that it works, but that's like your tractionthat you're getting pilots and hopefully
getting larger contracts that might have alonger lead time to actually close.
So you know that that would be successful, likeif you're if you're doing more of a deep tech
investing strategy, then I would say trying tothink for me to like B2B SaaS would essentially
(30:57):
be, hey, you know, how many subscriptions doyou have a year?
Guess how have the numbers of subscriptionsgrown?
And then that would essentially translate toARR.
So what's the multiple of ARR that's grown?
But you know the challenge is like early stage,you need money to build that software first, so
you got to build the software and theneventually hopefully just resell the software
(31:20):
that you build.
So I feel like the resources would go into likethe building in the beginning and then later on
the resources I would assume probably would beyou know, after it's built, it's like
maintenance and then really doubling down onenterprise sales getting people out there.
Sales
sales, I mean in general, like the commondenominator is sales cures all if you have a
(31:42):
bad you have a problem and your business isfailing.
If you can sell that solves probably most ofyour problems, would say.
Yeah, no, I mean, exactly like it reallydepends and like different funds will have
different structures like they won't look atcompanies that they don't have like 2,000,000
in revenue and all
that stuff.
Early stage companies like they want to seethat product or that market validation.
(32:03):
What we're really looking for is is maybe, youknow, job site validation first and then figure
out what those metrics look like.
And and and as like construction tech, whatwe've done is we've invested in a wide array of
things.
So we have, for example, a company called Bruntwho actually makes boots.
(32:25):
So, you know, far cry from like deep tech androbotics.
But they're doing extremely well and they'vekind of hit a hit a spot where, you know, no
one's competed in a long time.
So, kind of going head to head to likeTimberland and Carhartt and innovating on and
using the direct direct to consumer motionthat's been popular across other retail
(32:50):
channels to do the same in construction.
So there's definitely a lot of like crossapplications, but it kind of depends on the
fund again and like what the metrics are forthat fund.
You know, some VCs are not going to go directto, they're not going to invest in a direct to
consumer business and a deep tech company.
(33:11):
Yeah.
Again, for us, because we're so focused on justconstruction, it gives us like a bit more, I
guess, more horizontal view, and again, on whatwe can invest.
What about workman's comp?
Have you seen there's been a couple deals thatI've seen in, you know, recently where they're
improving the risk of construction people whenthey go out into the field.
(33:35):
So whether they're using a certain technique tocarry equipment.
And a lot of times if you don't do that theright way, you can get injured and then you're
out of commission.
And then now there's workman's comp.
And then your timelines get delayed too becausethe people that you're dependent on to do the
work, they're now injured.
So I don't know if that's a hot industry.
I can see that also tying into like anInsurTech play as well.
(33:58):
But is that that kind of a like a huge painpoint, like just training personnel and and
making sure that they don't get injured?
Yeah, absolutely.
Like again, like anything that touches labor isis typically a hot subject.
And then the other one is just being constructthe overlap between construction and fintech.
Again, because so many unresolved problemswithin construction is like very heavy nuances
(34:24):
to how construction finances work.
And, you know, most generalist banks aren'tequipped to deal with it.
And so there's a lot of potential there.
We're actually investing in a company calledNewmetrics that does security monitoring for
job sites.
So security is also very big concern.
Again, it kind of flows into finances andensure insurance and all that stuff.
(34:48):
No,
that's helpful.
I think, think Jeremy had a quick questionhere.
Jeremy, you want to shout out your question?
Yeah, for sure.
Thanks, Joe.
So I just want to figure out, I have abackground in construction and I wanted to
figure out what trend, if any, had you seenbased on some of the supply chain dislocations
(35:10):
that we've seen in the pandemic and any firmsor construction companies looking to kind of
hedge commodity costs because we had labor,excuse me, lumber go through the roof a couple
of quarters ago.
So just wanted to get any thoughts or anyinsights you had there.
Yeah.
So we haven't done any investments in like thecommodity pricing in per se.
(35:31):
We've done a couple investments in likemarketplaces.
So there's a lot of just kind of, know, lowhanging fruit in terms of marketplaces and
supply chain.
Right?
So we're, for example, we've invested in acompany called Agora that's a supply chain.
It's a marketplace for for subcontractors toget their supplies faster and more accurately.
(35:54):
So essentially, like an Amazon, amazon.comexperience for supply for for supplies.
And and so, like, that hasn't been done, youknow, it's kind of mind blowing like, oh, that
doesn't exist yet.
No.
It doesn't.
And so Agora is working on that.
We also just made an investment in a companycalled Felix who's doing the same thing, but
specifically for steel.
Right?
(36:14):
So steel is a very nuanced market.
And so how, you know, the building out themarketplace there.
So it's just, so so the marketplace for supplychain is definitely a ripe kind of area for the
construction tech still.
And then I think, you know, the the pricing andthe fintech overlays will come once once, you
(36:35):
know, the those problems have figured out.
That makes sense.
I the insight for sure.
And I guess one follow-up question.
I know construction is one of those industriesor one of those verticals that does leave you
scratching your head that doesn't existalready.
And so one of the things that I wanted tounderstand was anything that you've seen, I
(37:00):
know that there have been some new technologythat's come out within the last year or two or
so, but have you seen any real diligence aroundasset management, particularly the problem
being if equipment and other constructionassets aren't on-site for labor to do its job,
(37:24):
huge costs are incurred because you got folksjust standing around not being So have you have
you seen anything looking to address thatproblem or anything that's interesting to you
now?
Yeah.
There's there's a lot of activity there and andshame on me for not mentioning it early, but
earlier, but we're actually an investor in acompany called EquipmentShare, which is
essentially an equipment rental company.
(37:45):
They're, they're, you know, going to be theindustry giant going forward.
Like a very, very valuable company and they'reextending kind of into into all those things,
right?
And so, so definitely the, you know, assetmanagement and better management, is is top of
(38:06):
mind as well, because if you think aboutconstruction in Germany, like I'm sure you know
this too, right?
So, it's like cost schedule, those are the, youknow, and labor, right?
Those are the three things that we care about.
And just from like, you know, my contrast fromtechnology, it's kind of nice because you
literally have these three really concreteproblems and like, that's all like, like, how
(38:28):
can the new product or the new business solveone of those problems?
And that's how they will get traction.
And so it's kind of a it's it's it's limiting,but it's nice that it's limiting because you
have a very clear set of problems to go after.
Thank you.
I appreciate that insight.
Yeah, that was really helpful.
(38:49):
Well, any any other final questions for Diana?
Really appreciate all the all your time, Diana.
I know you're super busy.
Cool, yeah, so we'll wrap up.
Guess what I always ask at the end is just tokind of wrap up is if you have any just general
advice that you learned from a mentor or justany high level takeaways for people starting
(39:12):
their career in venture?
And I think you already covered most of them.
So you cover networking.
I think it's also interesting to find aparallel with your natural background.
So like when I broke there was a fund that waslooking for someone with fintech and deep tech.
That was kind of a really interesting synergythere.
(39:34):
And I think for you is data.
And then I think you talked about building thenetwork.
Any other pieces of advice you'd like to leaveus with or you know it doesn't have to be about
venture it could also just be about life youknow things that you've experienced and maybe
something that a mentor has given you.
Sure yeah so I think you know, one phrase Iread somewhere from, from, I think, know, how
(39:58):
to break into VC, and that resonated and, youknow, take it for what it's worth, but it
essentially read venture, you don't pickventure, venture picks you.
And so I think you, you just go about, youknow, your life.
And then if you have and, and, you know, andfalls in, then, then you, you can do it.
(40:20):
You can absolutely do it, you know, consciouslyand break into VC that way.
Absolutely.
But I think a lot of the folks that, especiallyI've talked to, know, a lot of folks just end
up kind of randomly in this role.
And, and a lot of it comes from specialization,right?
So like, again, like you, like if you haveoperational expertise, like that's, that's what
(40:43):
helps you evaluate companies in a particularmarket, going forward, especially particularly
for the early stage.
I think for later stage, we see, you know, youneed probably different set of skills, but for
early stage you know that's that's kind of whatyeah you need to enjoy the work you need to
like the like the banners you need to like thedomain and the and the and the industry that
(41:05):
you're in as well so.
That's really helpful.
Diana, great catching up with you.
Glad that we got to hear all the updates.
And if you're around, come out to New York fora venture summit.
And hopefully we all get to hang out in person.
Yeah, absolutely.
We'll try to make it always love an excuse tocome down to New York.
(41:25):
But look us up if you're here and hope you havethe good rest of the week and everybody else
too.
It's not something that at most kids, wanna gointo.
(00:04):
And so it's definitely a concern for theindustry, especially during the fact that
building's not slowing down.
In fact, building is is speeding up.
Suffolk for Suffolk construction has a fiveyear backlog of projects, so we just can't
build stuff fast enough.
Welcome to The Investor, Investor, a podcastwhere I, Joel Palafinkel, your host, dives deep
(00:29):
into the minds of the world's most influentialinstitutional investors.
In each episode, we sit down with an investorto hear about their journeys and how global
markets are driving capital allocation.
So join us on this journey as we explore theseinsights.
Go live, Diana.
And, hey.
(00:49):
It's really great to see you again.
I it's you know, I think we met, like, prepandemic, and we were able to do one of these a
while back.
Good to really great to see you again.
And it's strange, I've been actually connectingrecently with a few people pre pandemic.
I don't know what it is, but it's it's beenjust really great to kind of just finally
reconnect with people.
I posted something on LinkedIn today, becauseit was really crazy.
(01:13):
So I was part of this hackathon exactly aboutten years ago.
And the guy that I did the hackathon with justrandomly reached out to me like today.
And when I looked at his profile, he had likethis photo of us and we're like little kids and
like we won the competition.
So I found the photo and I like posted.
(01:34):
Was like, oh, has anybody talked to somebody?
Has anybody reconnected with somebody from likea decade ago?
But I'm glad that I got to reconnect with youin less time than a decade and good to see you.
And I know you've made a couple transitionsthen.
And it sounds really exciting about thosechanges.
To catch everybody up, why don't we start fromthe beginning and talk a little bit about your
(01:57):
background, your education, how you broke intoVC and then and then we can go a little deeper
on your current role at Suffolk Technology.
So we've got Diana Swinton, who's an investorat Suffolk Technologies.
So really excited to go a little deeper.
Yeah, sure.
Absolutely.
So I actually set out originally, in myeducation since we're going deep here.
(02:22):
I was going to be, essentially like a, like,like a diplomat.
It was kind of where I was, was I was shootingfor.
Out of college or in college, I met a bunch ofmechanical engineers and we actually started
building a startup for a vertically verticalbike rack, vertical space saving bike rack.
And that kind of, you know, me the world ofbusiness and it seemed more exciting than than
(02:47):
maybe, you know, working in an office all day.
So, I still, I guess I still work in an officeall day, but that's not the point.
So so anyway, so I went down the business pathafter school and and started out in marketing,
then quickly realized marketing is being eatenby data.
So very quickly got on the data science route.
(03:10):
And one of my professors for my master's degreein analytics, essentially recruited me to work
for EMC, which was then getting acquired byDell.
And so quickly became part of the team, insales operations for Dell EMC, worked in in the
data science group there.
Ran a bunch of programs for sales operationsand sales teams, and kinda kept thinking about
(03:35):
startups and entrepreneurship and all thatstuff.
Started actually a series in Boston for startupfounders to share stories of failure, kind of
having my failed startup and we can talk aboutit.
We don't have to later, but wanted to kind ofshare those stories because they tend to be
more instructive than just, you know, likeSteve Jobs, all of a sudden overnight success,
(04:01):
that type of stuff.
Kind of developed a network aroundentrepreneurs in Boston in particular and kind
of have that data science focus.
And so it kind of fortunately, Dell has aventure arm, Dell Technologies Capital.
They were looking for somebody in Boston with adata background.
And so it was a fortuitous kind of way to joina venture group, from that side.
(04:27):
And again, it was really because, of thenetwork that I've developed on my own.
And so I worked over there for about two and ahalf years.
And so as you alluded to earlier, just recentlyjoined into, into a new group, new CDC, Suffolk
Technologies.
So Suffolk Technologies is a spin out fromSuffolk Construction.
(04:48):
Suffolk Construction is a $5,000,000,000general contractor based in Boston.
They do premier projects all around thecountry, skyline changing projects, very, very
respected builder in the world, in The US.
And so, a couple years ago, the founder JohnFish essentially realized innovation is coming
(05:14):
for construction and wanted to get ahead of it.
And so he spun out a bunch of a series ofbusinesses, under the Suffolk umbrella and
Suffolk Technologies was one of them.
And so our mandate is really to find newcompanies in construction tech, and invest in
them.
(05:35):
And we think we have a really unique model inthat construction companies and especially tech
companies, they need access to operationalexpertise, they need access to testing their
projects.
And so being closely aligned with SuffolkConstruction really helps us to do that, to
(05:55):
help our portfolio companies, not only to helpthem grow, but also to then transform the
industry and really make an impact.
So it's a lot more involved in many ways, butit's also one of the few ways that I think a
venture capital group can really be successfulin this market because the diligence we can do
(06:16):
is much deeper in many ways.
I'll pause there.
Yeah.
Well, I don't wanna embarrass myself with, likethe startup that we pitched for the startup
demo day that, that that we were at like tenyears ago, but, but I wanna hear about your
startup, how you came up with the idea, andwhat do you think made it fail?
(06:37):
Because I think, look, you gotta you gotta failto learn, right?
So I think, you know, let's talk about that andthe origin story and what triggered you to do
that and, know, did you do it part time?
You do it full time?
So love to hear all about that.
Yeah, yeah.
So it was a vertically, vertical space savingbike rack.
It had a really cool design.
It was circle.
It was an eight racks in a circle.
(06:59):
So it could go around a tree.
You can go like it was freestanding.
We sold a bunch to the university.
So I went to McGill in Montreal.
So I think they're still up.
So if you ever go and you see them up there, Ihope they still look good.
But yeah, so there were a couple issues withkind of how it got, like, I guess why we
(07:22):
failed, right?
So first and foremost, we had a team of seven.
So, you know, in the student fashion, we wantedeverybody who, you know, had a touch of the
idea.
We wanted everybody to be involved in thecompany.
And that's just not how companies work,especially early stage companies.
They're just kind of a lot of a lot ofdifferent cooks in the kitchen.
Then the second part of it is ultimately wethought we were going to sell to end users, but
(07:49):
really our customer ended up being like thearchitect department of the university.
And so we just weren't aware of how to makethat sale right into in it because those are
hard sales to make you need to have a lot ofcity connections, which we just didn't have.
And so ultimately, because there was nobodyjumping up and down saying, I'm going to make
(08:14):
these sales, and because there were seven of usand too many voices.
Then we also, part of us graduated and it waskind of a transition period for a lot of us.
So, we kind of just on the personal or likethe, I guess the personnel, I should say, and
the kind of product market or I guess customerfit wasn't there.
(08:37):
I still keep a list of bike racks whenever I goto a new city and I see bike racks.
Still have like photos.
I think I have a Pinterest wall somewhere ofall of them.
It's definitely definitely still still on themind whenever you're going.
How did you design it?
And then how did you acquire customers?
Not to, like, make this like a like a VC, dealflow meeting, but I'm just curious.
(09:02):
Yeah, so we really we went to cities and we'relike, hey, like, do you want buy this?
And so we sold it to Miguel in particularbecause they had their obviously privately
managed land being the campus.
(09:22):
What was your first question?
Oh, I was just, yeah, so I guess you know it'smore organic, just kind of, it's essentially
enterprise b2b sales, just kind of selling to,I guess, where university is the main, ideal
customer, because and how did you sell it toMcGill?
I guess, was it a project, like was it like anentrepreneurial project for McGill to like
solve problems for McGill?
(09:42):
Is that how you kind of had a warm shoe in?
So how it started actually, so the MechanicalEngineering School at McGill, they, one of the
classes runs essentially like a workshop type,like the whole semester is just a workshop.
So you get like a customer to come and givethem give you a problem.
(10:04):
Oh, cool.
And and and then the students work on it.
So that's why we had a lot of students becauseliterally what happened was that the
engineering kids students, they're not notkids, but they have the mechanical engineering
problem.
And then we heard about it.
And then I was taking a marketing class at thetime and we're like, well, hey, let's make this
(10:25):
into a business.
We'll write you a marketing plan for your, forthe product you just built, in your semester.
It's kind of like two, it was like, I guess, ifyou wanna, it's like a spin out from like two
classes at a university.
So that was kind of the idea.
The background.
Really innovative model, I feel that that wouldbe really huge if they adopted that into the
(10:49):
accelerator model, like just having massive,because I feel like if you do that, know, I
remember there was a company, I forgot the nameof the company, but it was, I think it was
Farmigo.
So what Farmigo did is they built thisplatform, this software for farmers where they
could just immediately order.
I think the retailers could just immediatelythrough a platform order from the farmers.
(11:13):
So I think this the CEO initially talked to thecustomers asked what they need.
And then he built like a clickable mock up.
And then he said, look, if you want, I canbuild this for you, but this is what it's going
to cost.
So he got like his initial revenue from thecustomers to fund the first product.
And then I think if you have good legal terms,you don't have to be exclusive.
(11:35):
So they you know, they always say build onceand sell, sell twice, right?
So you can get your first customer to kind ofpay for the product.
And then and then once it's kind of funded, nowyou have a product that you get to do is sell.
So I think that's kind of a unique strategy.
But I think that would be a really innovativeaccelerator model where you have corporates
come in who have real problems.
(11:57):
And then you know, you just tell that to peoplethat can build very quickly or build
prototypes, and get it to market in likethere's your customer right there, your first
customer.
Yeah, exactly.
It's, it's that's exactly what happened andkind of the failure there was on the team's
part, right?
Like we just we should have gone after allarchitects and builders and then like, hey,
(12:17):
like put this in your new building.
Like hindsight is twenty twenty, right?
Having had like some time to think about it,that's what I would have done.
But obviously that's that didn't happen.
But I mean, it's still, it's still a cool idea.
And, you know, hopefully somebody does it,Steal it, do it.
I will I will buy it, put one, you know, Idon't know, somewhere in front of my house
(12:39):
maybe.
But Yeah.
But to your point, I you know, it's it'sactually kinda funny that you say that, like,
it's a good idea to have a business strategics,like come in and tell you their business
problem because actually that's part of whatwe're trying to work on at Suffolk Tech.
So part of part of what we do is called theboost program.
So we actually run an accelerator every fall.
(13:00):
And it's kinda like a YC count combinator forfor construction tech companies.
And so we select, you know, 100 to from from anapplication pool of a 100 to 200 companies, we
select six.
And we bring in strategic partners and we askthe we ask the startups to tell us what they're
working on.
And then based on the strategics that arehelping us evaluate these companies, we, we
(13:22):
then work with them for six weeks on thatproblem, directly.
So, it's, it's definitely a cool way to engage,you know, both the corporate world and the
startup world.
What are some of the biggest problems inconstruction tech?
Yeah, so like the biggest one that you'll, youknow, you've probably heard just from hearsay
(13:44):
too is just labor.
And so automation, automation of labor, there'sa huge shortage of labor.
A lot of people, you know, you know, post COVIDespecially aren't coming back and it's an aging
workforce.
So most construction workers are 35 years andolder.
It's not something that at most kids want to gointo.
(14:05):
And so it's definitely a concern for theindustry, especially during the fact that
building's not slowing down.
In fact, building is is speeding up.
Suffolk Suffolk Construction has a five yearbacklog of projects, so we just can't build
stuff fast enough.
There's not enough people, there's not enoughtools.
So, there's, you know, automation is probably athird of what we focus on.
(14:28):
And that can be, you know, it's pretty broadterm for us.
It can be something like a workflowcollaboration tool, all the way to like
robotics, right?
So, so we have a few investments in roboticscompanies that help with like automated layout
or drywalling, right?
And so, it's, it's kind of a huge, it's a hugefocus for the entire industry as a whole.
(14:51):
And then the other other things we look at, isjust improving processes.
So sustainability, financial services, youknow, there's, there's, you know, anywhere from
sixty to ninety days lag between people getpaid.
And so like how can you you know how do youenhance that process?
And then sustainability right?
How do we make make sure that how we build issustainable?
(15:14):
How do we make the buildings that we buildsustainable?
And so there's a lot of stuff around that aswell.
So in terms of monitoring the tools you use,the waste, cutting the waste that goes into
construction.
I'd say those are kind of the bigger the biggerfocuses for us.
(15:35):
Can you share a little more info on Suffolkconstruction, you know, because I know they're
working on $5,000,000,000 worth of, you know,development and construction.
So, what are the ideal types of properties?
Is it residential?
Is it corporate?
And is it mainly in Boston or is it all overthe world?
It's it's so it's nationwide.
(15:55):
It's all he was most of it is is in Boston.
It's mostly commercial, high end commercialconstruction, not not a lot of, like, some
residential, but not a lot, but a lot of, like,gaming.
So for example, if anybody's from Boston, webuilt the Angour Casino, you know, like a lot
of health care, a lot of transportation.
So we're working on, on the, on the BostonLogan Airport Terminal E, for example.
(16:19):
But it's nationwide.
So mostly Boston is where it started and wherethe bulk of the team is.
But there's also offices in Florida, Texas,California, and New York as well.
But, you know, building happens kind of allover
the
country, in kind of in those clusters a littlebit, You know, and then the kind of another
(16:42):
kind of emerging sector for us has been datacenters too.
So for, yeah, for clients that need, you know,the big tech companies that are focusing on on
a lot more cloud computing and all that stuff.
Yeah.
Do you guys, set up like the the ITinfrastructure tour?
Is it more just the building foundation and
(17:03):
It's just, yeah.
Suffolk Construction is a general contractor.
They do the building piece of it.
Yeah, no, that's really exciting.
Yeah, mean, think there's just so manyopportunities.
Where do you think the future is heading?
Mean, I know there's a lot of technology nowwhere, you know, homes are getting built on
their own, know, you can have robots kind ofthree d print, the homes and then you talked
(17:26):
about sensors, so, like maybe from a deep techperspective, where are you guys kind of heading
or kind of envisioning the future when it comesto construction tech?
Yeah, I think I think a lot of a lot can stillbe done in just the collaboration piece.
It's an extremely collaborative industry.
And and very few tools exist that arespecifically serving needs of the construction
(17:52):
industry.
A lot of it is off the shelf like, you know,like Microsoft March, like like like any any
other, enterprise, but there's there's still alot to do there, obviously.
So, like a seamless collaborative experience,you know, is something that we're going forward
to.
As like part of something we're really excitedabout is generative design.
So like helping with understanding how thecontractor can speed up the design process.
(18:21):
Because not in high end projects, you know,design piece has to take a long time, but it's
not the case for a lot of projects.
And so how can you how can you kind of helpwith that as a general contractor?
So that's definitely like like one aspect ofit.
And then again, like automation.
So like, is there like a collaborative robotthat can come in and and help with certain
(18:46):
parts of the jobs?
And then the, I guess the other part of it toois like data.
So data is actually coming in into constructiontoo.
And so like, you know, can we be better at costestimating?
Can we be better?
Can we use, you know, computer vision tounderstand what has gone into a constructed
(19:06):
building?
Can we record that?
Can insurance providers then use thatinformation to better underwrite insurance
claims?
So, so there's a lot, a lot of kind of new techthat is maturing out of the enterprise sector
that is now coming into construction becauseit's finally mature enough to be used in a
(19:27):
vertical sense.
Yeah, no, that's exciting.
And yeah, I think there's a lot of opportunityalso with just collaborating better.
I feel they have a lot of tools for softwarelike they've got, I think Figma when you're
when you're a designer and you're just you'redoing design, developers and product managers
and other people that indirectly are involved,they can kind of add comments and streamline
(19:51):
that.
I've seen a few three d collaborative toolswhere like if you're building a design, can
kind of come into a virtual world and look atlike the CAD model, like if you're building an
engine, right, you probably need someone to dothe design, but a lot of times what you design
sometimes can't actually get built based on thetechnology that we have, right?
(20:13):
So even though the design looks amazing and theengine looks really cool, like maybe just from
a physics standpoint or just from the weight oflike the vehicle, like it just can't really
happen in real life, so that's when you wouldneed an engineer to come in to check that, to
make sure that that actually can be done, andif you do it in more of a waterfall way where
(20:38):
like you do the designs first, then in series,send it to engineering, you may have to go back
and redo the work.
And then that kills the timeline.
So I think you make a good point.
So there's are you seeing that now?
Like a lot of three d worlds where people cancome in?
I know we're talking about the metaverse andeverything, you don't even need the metaverse
more of just kind of a three d collaborativeenvironment But and then like just real time
(21:01):
annotation, right?
Because you want to bring, this is just my lifebeing a software person, know, things that we
were always taught is like bring in engineersearly to the table because if not, you're gonna
have to do a lot of rework.
So I can just already foresee that in likethree d because the problem with three d and
actual physical products is once they ship itto you it's like a hard product right, so you
(21:26):
can't go back and you might not be able to geta refund but then also it might take another
six weeks to like refabricate it again versussoftware it's just kind of like a hey we'll fix
it in the software patch.
So, that's I feel like a big huge challengewith like with construction I'm assuming.
It is yeah and I think that's again like kindof what I touched on earlier.
It's it kind of goes back to the unique modelthat we have, and that are attached to general
(21:50):
contractor where we can test this technologyand get immediate, like, this is not gonna work
or this is a great idea, but we need to do likethese three things for it to be a usable
product in reality because it does to yourpoint like it it it's the physical space like
you're it's not a software patch you can't justyou know do overnight.
(22:10):
Yeah.
Gonna take some time and it and you're touchingreal materials, know, real real people for
security reasons or whatever.
And so there is a lot of that.
It's exciting in that sense because again, it'sit's been traditionally an underserved market
(22:34):
for venture in particular and I think that'swhy I think a good parallel is healthcare for
example.
Yeah.
A lot of you know a lot of generalist VCs arenot going to touch healthcare because they
don't understand it.
Similarly, they're not going to touchconstruction.
And at this point, you know, there's so muchgoing on that it's a good time to kind of be in
(22:56):
construction tech.
Yeah.
And how what are the changes that you've seenfrom when we were hanging out, like pre
pandemic to now, right after all that'shappened, what have you seen happen?
You know, which is kinda know, because there'sthere's if you guys are doing commercial
buildings you know a lot of those people leftand worked at home and now we're going back to
(23:20):
hybrid.
So is that kind of what happened or you knowwhat did you observe?
Yeah, so I wasn't I wasn't with this companyduring the pandemic or for most of the
pandemic, but Yeah.
But but from from what I know is that they wereconsidered essential.
So they actually never closed their doors.
Yeah.
They kept kept working.
Mhmm.
(23:40):
What I think was what what was interesting forthe company was that, hybrid actually came came
to them.
So so so I I came from tech where, you know,hybrid was already there.
Like, I was, you know, my team was in PaloAlto. Was
Was in there.
We were already like on Zoom all the timeanyway.
(24:01):
So it wasn't that big of a difference.
But I think for, for, for Suffolk, it was a bitdifferent because they did, start doing more
hybrid things.
And I think that's going to, to some extent,stay.
I think the preference is still to come in andwork in person because again, like it's, it's,
(24:21):
you're, you're building real buildings.
So you might as well go and see real peoplewhen you work.
But there is that element of hybrid, and Ithink everybody's kind of experiencing that
where where that's not going to go away forsome for some things and for some days, it's
definitely fine to to be remote.
Yeah, there's one thing too, just realizing youwere at Dell, I just finished Michael Dell's
(24:48):
biography and it was amazing.
It was really, really great.
His new one, I think it's called Play Nice, ButWin, and it kind of flashes back to his younger
childhood.
He started his company, I think even before, Ithink he started in high school, and he begged
his parents to quit college.
He ended up doing it, but he just really,really successful business person.
(25:11):
I met his brother at Goldman and haven't methim but you know just really inspired by his
story.
So I don't know if there's any you knowtakeaways or life lessons that you learned at
your time at Dell or just kind of the the waythat they do business that inspired you but
just wanted to call that out too just because Iread the book and I was really really happy you
(25:34):
know hearing about his story.
Yeah, So life lessons for me.
Interesting.
I think I'm still learning.
To be honest, I don't know if I'm I'm, youknow, you know, would you call it?
Equipped enough to, yeah, share lessonsnecessarily.
But I think, just in general, what has workedfor me is just being open with people, right?
(26:01):
Don't be afraid and like, talk to people, justgo ask the questions you want and literally go
meet who you want to meet.
Yeah.
They might, they might, you know, they mightnot like you, they might say, you know, never
call me again, or whatever.
But, you know, that doesn't typically happen.
People are generally nice and I think it's ithas served served me well for sure, especially
(26:27):
being in a network heavy profession.
Yeah, yeah, and I think there's there'sdynamics too with with big companies a lot of
times when you're at big companies, there's alot of bureaucracy, and you know there's
multiple levels of leadership if you want toget something done, but I think the companies
that do really well are the people that embraceyou know entrepreneurship where you can be kind
(26:49):
of an entrepreneur for your business unit.
I think it seems like Dell was doing a lot ofthat too with like the hackathons they had.
I think companies when they do that and kind ofembrace innovation and new ideas, it's always
really helpful to kind of come up with newideas and new solutions.
You know, I want to touch to teeing that up,know, your background breaking into venture
(27:14):
from a data background, you talked about thenetwork being a big piece as well.
So any tips that you have or any stories on howyou built your network and how you leverage
that network to achieve your goals, maybe indifferent parts of your life?
Yeah, I think, I think, you know, in terms ofventure, and I tell everybody, you know, like,
(27:38):
like, junior VCs, and all that stuff, like,there's such a network driven business that,
as, as, or I should say, in particular, likethe reason it's a network driven business is
because you need to produce deal flow and to dothat, a good network.
So, and so to the extent where you candemonstrate that you have deal flow, it might
be a network, it might be something else, itmight be a community you're a part of, right?
(28:00):
It kind of can show itself in different ways,but to the the extent that you can say or and
and show that you have deal flow, that that'sreally how you demonstrate your ability to to
understand the venture model.
And like the best thing you can do for aventure capitalist is to bring them a company
(28:21):
that they haven't heard of that is really,really cool.
That's like that's the golden star you'relooking for.
What feedback have you gotten in you know whenyou were going through that journey kind of
trying to network from from VCs as far as likewhat what is a good deal?
(28:41):
And obviously it depends on the thesis of thefund, but are there some common threads that
you've seen, you know, when you're puttingtogether a memo or something trying to trying
to break into VC or any tips that you've givento people as far as like the things that you
should call out when something is a good deal?
Yeah, it really depends.
(29:03):
It really depends on the funds.
It's kind of hard to say like this, you know,this this will be like
your your
Yeah.
Or the golden ticket or whatever.
But, you know, the three things that allventure capitalists look at or at least early
stage.
Alright.
Because because my focus has always been earlystage.
Think late the concerns change quite a bit.
But early stage you're looking at team,product, market.
(29:27):
And that's the three things you're evaluating.
I think for me personally in the beginning,I've always focused on the product and market,
but the earlier you get in a company the teambecomes more significant.
Yeah.
In consideration like is it a good team?
Is their product and their product might fail,but are is the team going to be successful?
Are they going to be able to have what they gotand you know build something else that's
(29:51):
better?
So it's kind of the dynamic.
Yeah,
yeah, no, agree.
Mean, always say team Tam interactions.
It's pretty much almost the same thing yousaid.
And you know, like to double click on, I thinkwhy you're saying it depends, you know, some
trends that I've seen obviously, right?
Consumer tech VCs are looking for, you know,MRR that's growing repeatedly, right?
(30:16):
It essentially needs to be something that theycan inject capital to and then they repeatably
see the MRR growing every month over time.
And then I think a lot of times withconstruction tech and probably even deep tech,
there's no revenue.
There's potential pilots that you're doing withbig massive conglomerates and you're hoping
(30:36):
that it works, but that's like your tractionthat you're getting pilots and hopefully
getting larger contracts that might have alonger lead time to actually close.
So you know that that would be successful, likeif you're if you're doing more of a deep tech
investing strategy, then I would say trying tothink for me to like B2B SaaS would essentially
(30:57):
be, hey, you know, how many subscriptions doyou have a year?
Guess how have the numbers of subscriptionsgrown?
And then that would essentially translate toARR.
So what's the multiple of ARR that's grown?
But you know the challenge is like early stage,you need money to build that software first, so
you got to build the software and theneventually hopefully just resell the software
(31:20):
that you build.
So I feel like the resources would go into likethe building in the beginning and then later on
the resources I would assume probably would beyou know, after it's built, it's like
maintenance and then really doubling down onenterprise sales getting people out there.
Sales
sales, I mean in general, like the commondenominator is sales cures all if you have a
(31:42):
bad you have a problem and your business isfailing.
If you can sell that solves probably most ofyour problems, would say.
Yeah, no, I mean, exactly like it reallydepends and like different funds will have
different structures like they won't look atcompanies that they don't have like 2,000,000
in revenue and all
that stuff.
Early stage companies like they want to seethat product or that market validation.
(32:03):
What we're really looking for is is maybe, youknow, job site validation first and then figure
out what those metrics look like.
And and and as like construction tech, whatwe've done is we've invested in a wide array of
things.
So we have, for example, a company called Bruntwho actually makes boots.
(32:25):
So, you know, far cry from like deep tech androbotics.
But they're doing extremely well and they'vekind of hit a hit a spot where, you know, no
one's competed in a long time.
So, kind of going head to head to likeTimberland and Carhartt and innovating on and
using the direct direct to consumer motionthat's been popular across other retail
(32:50):
channels to do the same in construction.
So there's definitely a lot of like crossapplications, but it kind of depends on the
fund again and like what the metrics are forthat fund.
You know, some VCs are not going to go directto, they're not going to invest in a direct to
consumer business and a deep tech company.
(33:11):
Yeah.
Again, for us, because we're so focused on justconstruction, it gives us like a bit more, I
guess, more horizontal view, and again, on whatwe can invest.
What about workman's comp?
Have you seen there's been a couple deals thatI've seen in, you know, recently where they're
improving the risk of construction people whenthey go out into the field.
(33:35):
So whether they're using a certain technique tocarry equipment.
And a lot of times if you don't do that theright way, you can get injured and then you're
out of commission.
And then now there's workman's comp.
And then your timelines get delayed too becausethe people that you're dependent on to do the
work, they're now injured.
So I don't know if that's a hot industry.
I can see that also tying into like anInsurTech play as well.
(33:58):
But is that that kind of a like a huge painpoint, like just training personnel and and
making sure that they don't get injured?
Yeah, absolutely.
Like again, like anything that touches labor isis typically a hot subject.
And then the other one is just being constructthe overlap between construction and fintech.
Again, because so many unresolved problemswithin construction is like very heavy nuances
(34:24):
to how construction finances work.
And, you know, most generalist banks aren'tequipped to deal with it.
And so there's a lot of potential there.
We're actually investing in a company calledNewmetrics that does security monitoring for
job sites.
So security is also very big concern.
Again, it kind of flows into finances andensure insurance and all that stuff.
(34:48):
No,
that's helpful.
I think, think Jeremy had a quick questionhere.
Jeremy, you want to shout out your question?
Yeah, for sure.
Thanks, Joe.
So I just want to figure out, I have abackground in construction and I wanted to
figure out what trend, if any, had you seenbased on some of the supply chain dislocations
(35:10):
that we've seen in the pandemic and any firmsor construction companies looking to kind of
hedge commodity costs because we had labor,excuse me, lumber go through the roof a couple
of quarters ago.
So just wanted to get any thoughts or anyinsights you had there.
Yeah.
So we haven't done any investments in like thecommodity pricing in per se.
(35:31):
We've done a couple investments in likemarketplaces.
So there's a lot of just kind of, know, lowhanging fruit in terms of marketplaces and
supply chain.
Right?
So we're, for example, we've invested in acompany called Agora that's a supply chain.
It's a marketplace for for subcontractors toget their supplies faster and more accurately.
(35:54):
So essentially, like an Amazon, amazon.comexperience for supply for for supplies.
And and so, like, that hasn't been done, youknow, it's kind of mind blowing like, oh, that
doesn't exist yet.
No.
It doesn't.
And so Agora is working on that.
We also just made an investment in a companycalled Felix who's doing the same thing, but
specifically for steel.
Right?
(36:14):
So steel is a very nuanced market.
And so how, you know, the building out themarketplace there.
So it's just, so so the marketplace for supplychain is definitely a ripe kind of area for the
construction tech still.
And then I think, you know, the the pricing andthe fintech overlays will come once once, you
(36:35):
know, the those problems have figured out.
That makes sense.
I the insight for sure.
And I guess one follow-up question.
I know construction is one of those industriesor one of those verticals that does leave you
scratching your head that doesn't existalready.
And so one of the things that I wanted tounderstand was anything that you've seen, I
(37:00):
know that there have been some new technologythat's come out within the last year or two or
so, but have you seen any real diligence aroundasset management, particularly the problem
being if equipment and other constructionassets aren't on-site for labor to do its job,
(37:24):
huge costs are incurred because you got folksjust standing around not being So have you have
you seen anything looking to address thatproblem or anything that's interesting to you
now?
Yeah.
There's there's a lot of activity there and andshame on me for not mentioning it early, but
earlier, but we're actually an investor in acompany called EquipmentShare, which is
essentially an equipment rental company.
(37:45):
They're, they're, you know, going to be theindustry giant going forward.
Like a very, very valuable company and they'reextending kind of into into all those things,
right?
And so, so definitely the, you know, assetmanagement and better management, is is top of
(38:06):
mind as well, because if you think aboutconstruction in Germany, like I'm sure you know
this too, right?
So, it's like cost schedule, those are the, youknow, and labor, right?
Those are the three things that we care about.
And just from like, you know, my contrast fromtechnology, it's kind of nice because you
literally have these three really concreteproblems and like, that's all like, like, how
(38:28):
can the new product or the new business solveone of those problems?
And that's how they will get traction.
And so it's kind of a it's it's it's limiting,but it's nice that it's limiting because you
have a very clear set of problems to go after.
Thank you.
I appreciate that insight.
Yeah, that was really helpful.
(38:49):
Well, any any other final questions for Diana?
Really appreciate all the all your time, Diana.
I know you're super busy.
Cool, yeah, so we'll wrap up.
Guess what I always ask at the end is just tokind of wrap up is if you have any just general
advice that you learned from a mentor or justany high level takeaways for people starting
(39:12):
their career in venture?
And I think you already covered most of them.
So you cover networking.
I think it's also interesting to find aparallel with your natural background.
So like when I broke there was a fund that waslooking for someone with fintech and deep tech.
That was kind of a really interesting synergythere.
(39:34):
And I think for you is data.
And then I think you talked about building thenetwork.
Any other pieces of advice you'd like to leaveus with or you know it doesn't have to be about
venture it could also just be about life youknow things that you've experienced and maybe
something that a mentor has given you.
Sure yeah so I think you know, one phrase Iread somewhere from, from, I think, know, how
(39:58):
to break into VC, and that resonated and, youknow, take it for what it's worth, but it
essentially read venture, you don't pickventure, venture picks you.
And so I think you, you just go about, youknow, your life.
And then if you have and, and, you know, andfalls in, then, then you, you can do it.
(40:20):
You can absolutely do it, you know, consciouslyand break into VC that way.
Absolutely.
But I think a lot of the folks that, especiallyI've talked to, know, a lot of folks just end
up kind of randomly in this role.
And, and a lot of it comes from specialization,right?
So like, again, like you, like if you haveoperational expertise, like that's, that's what
(40:43):
helps you evaluate companies in a particularmarket, going forward, especially particularly
for the early stage.
I think for later stage, we see, you know, youneed probably different set of skills, but for
early stage you know that's that's kind of whatyeah you need to enjoy the work you need to
like the like the banners you need to like thedomain and the and the and the industry that
(41:05):
you're in as well so.
That's really helpful.
Diana, great catching up with you.
Glad that we got to hear all the updates.
And if you're around, come out to New York fora venture summit.
And hopefully we all get to hang out in person.
Yeah, absolutely.
We'll try to make it always love an excuse tocome down to New York.
(41:25):
But look us up if you're here and hope you havethe good rest of the week and everybody else
too.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.