July 19, 2025 • 60 mins
In this episode, George Bandarian from Untapped Ventures discusses his journey from early life influences to selling a business and founding UNTAP Ventures. He shares insights on the venture studio model and hybrid studio accelerators, focusing on growth marketing strategies for B2B SaaS and Web3. The conversation covers early-stage validation, community building, and synergies with venture capital. George explores marketing trends, future technologies, and the evolving nature of work, along with evaluating founders. He provides advice for emerging fund managers and the significance of hosting events, highlighting content marketing and creating Web3 events. The episode concludes with information on joining the studio and final remarks.
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Episode Transcript
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Not a lot of consumer tech, more B2B, SaaS,Web3.
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Like for example, the two studio spinouts thatwe have so far, one is Teamfullness.
Teamfullness is bringing the power neuroscienceof meditation to the workplace for reducing
stress and mental health but not really that.
It's really more about better ideas and betterinsights and breakthrough thinking and
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innovation using the power of guided businessmeditations whether done solo or as a team.
So we're really trying to uplift theconsciousness within business with what we're
doing there.
And then the other one is a Fitcoin, which is aWeb3 Move to Earn project that allows you to
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connect your wearable tracker and earn Fitcoinfor calories you burn.
Welcome to The Investor, a podcast where I,Joel Palafinkel, your host, dives deep into the
minds of the world's most influentialinstitutional investors.
In each episode, we sit down with an investorto hear about their journeys and how global
(01:14):
markets are driving capital allocation.
So join us on this journey as we explore theseinsights.
Alright, so I'm just gonna go live.
So I believe we are live.
So excited to have George Bandarrian on ourshow.
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You know, every week we've got different VCscoming in.
People that are in venture, people that are inprivate equity.
We've had some people in real estate privateequity.
So excited to learn about you, George, and yourbackground, your story.
I know you have had a really interestingjourney.
You started a company, took that company reallyto an exciting exit point and now really just
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building a firm.
And, you know, a couple of times you and I havetalked about this, you know, just your passion
and just your legacy that you want to build asyou kind of build this into an eventual
institution, right so.
So let's just start from the beginning, youknow, tell us about you, your background, your
family.
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What did you study.
Did you know about venture when you werestarting out.
How did you discover venture?
And, you know, let's just start all the wayfrom there and then take us to where we are and
then I'll probably just chime in with somequestions in between and have some fun with it.
Yeah, yeah, that sounds good.
It's a big starting point, but it's always goodto get the context out early.
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So yeah, George Bandirian with untappedventures, born and raised here in LA.
So I guess the story that relates to everythingstarts when I was a baby, I was one and a half
and my dad passed.
And you know, so kind of growing up without adad that you know has an impact on you.
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And you know, the common thing that I think alot of us face is just that feeling of, know,
not being good enough.
He struggled with alcoholism and so, but I'dheard all these things about how much he loved
me and he'd waited to have, you know, son andall that.
So I couldn't understand why he couldn't likeput it aside to be with me, you know, growing
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up.
But luckily- How old did
you know him till?
Did you know him like as a child or was he?
I was a baby, so one and Okay, a got it.
So not a single memory, no zero connection.
I have like a box of his memorabilia and he wasin newspapers and he had a really interesting
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life, but I don't remember him at all.
Well, us about his life.
I mean, I think that's kind of good to knowabout as well.
What was he in the newspapers for?
Yeah, so he was an entrepreneur.
He's an interesting immigrant story.
He basically so we're Armenian.
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Our family had gone to Iran after the genocide,the Armenian genocide that happened.
His family was in Iran and he wanted to come toThe United States.
He was born on July 4.
He was crazy about America, about the land ofopportunity, the American dream.
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So he actually snuck on this ship coming to NewYork and he got discovered halfway through.
They couldn't throw him out.
They were going to dump him off at one of theports, but he convinced them to them be a chef,
so he started cooking for them and he was verycharismatic.
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One thing that everybody I knew my dad has toldme is like he was like just like uber
charismatic.
Anyway, he convinced them to bring him to NewYork.
Soon as they got to New York, he jumped off andstarted his life in New York.
Just for perspective, I'm 42, if he were alive,he would be like about, his birthday just
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passed on July 4, he would be, I think like 90.
So he had me later in life.
Yeah.
Right.
And so anyway, that start and so this is like1940, I'm talking about right now, 1940 in New
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York or 1950 maybe at the latest starting hislife here.
So anyway, he went through a whole journey, hewas like a sportscaster, he was on radio, he
was in the newspaper, he ended up being anentrepreneur, a company which then my mom took
over when he passed and then I took over when Iwas growing up and starting to fall in love
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with business.
No, it's exciting.
You've got a couple siblings as well, Only
child.
Okay.
Didn't get a chance.
Was the first born and that he passed so Ididn't get a chance to have siblings.
I have a couple of stepbrothers and also nothaving that.
Not having a dad, not having siblings is whatreally led me to few big life decisions.
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One was, A, that I want to be the best dad onthe planet and I want to have a lot of kids.
So my life vision was to have three boysfollowed by a girl and somehow I manifested
that, at least a lot of that.
Have three boys and we're thinking about thegirls so we'll see.
How's your little one doing by the way?
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She's doing well you know it's funny in the youknow I've got you know in the Indian culture
people are always trying to have a boy and youknow some people will have like, they'll just
keep having kids until they have a boy.
So like one of my cousins in New Jersey haslike five, he has three daughters.
So he's like, he's gonna be, you know, he'sgonna be cursed if he gets like a fourth
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daughter, you know, he's like, damn, I thoughtfourth would be a charm.
But yeah, you know, I mean, kids and family area blessing and, and, know, I, it's kind of
funny to see all these dots kind of connectsomehow, right?
I mean, I feel like some of that, you know, Isee that kind of fueled in, in, you know,
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you're fired to be an entrepreneur.
You know, look, starting a fund is anentrepreneurial endeavor, right?
It's a company, you're building a brand, youhave a website, you know, you're marketing,
your storytelling, so it's a company,definitely, right?
So I feel and it's interesting because that hewas a sportscaster a lot of times just the art
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of communication and building a brand is reallyjust through different channels.
One is through spoken word, Some people havethe gift of writing, right?
If you think about like the prolific authors ofour time, so it's definitely a gift if you can,
you know, project your voice and make itsomething that people enjoy listening to.
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So I feel like definitely some of those giftspassed on.
And then tell me about the business that, youknow, the transition process from like your mom
handing over handling the business to youhandling the business.
Then was that the business that you ended upgrowing and scaling or was there like a new
business to start it after that?
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We'd love to kind of know the origin story orkind of like how that business evolved.
Yeah, so basically the business that he startedwas something called microfilm, micro fish.
Oh yes, that's him, like the stuff that you seein the library?
Yeah, I mean not that he invented it per se,that was the world that we were in.
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And so yeah, so basically, so he started that,started, you know, it was a growing business,
he was doing really good, and then, you know,he was setting up like the second office in
like Louisiana or something and then he passed.
My mom was also an immigrant, she had justgotten here and so she was just trying to
figure out a lot of things and all of a suddenshe's widowed with a baby and a business and
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she barely spoke English.
She was a teacher back home and all that so shemade it work.
She's definitely a big role model and how shewas able to manage adversity and so she ran
that as just kind of this maintenance businessgrowing up.
So it was always like we had this business, itwas like we had clients like Disney, she got
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clients like Walt Disney and Dole PackagedFoods and all these marquee clients.
So yeah, what was using
the MicroFish for?
Was it to store like articles, like newspaperarticles?
Was magazine content?
Exactly.
That was what paperless and document imagingwas back then was you could take a room full of
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file cabinets and it was accounting records, itwas HR files, it was like one of the use cases
was like well logs, like oil well logs.
They needed, know, there was no data like thisis, when my dad started it was in the '68 and
then, you know, this is now when I was a kid,it was in the 80s.
So, there's like all these, you know, thegreen, the green bar reports and all that.
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That's what we did and then when I was 17, Iwent to my first trade show in Atlanta and I
remember like it was my first time by myselfand on the flight, I'm not sure what happened,
my eyes got completely inflamed and irritatedand they were puffy and red and I got to the
trade show the next day, I couldn't seeanything and I was 17, I was intimidated and I
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couldn't see anything, but all I could see waslike there was 10 micrographics vendors and
like 200 document imaging vendors and I waslike, all right, so clearly this is where the
industry is going.
So that's really where kind of myentrepreneurial journey began was like, brought
on the document imaging, like it was digitaltransformation it was called that.
We started as offering document imagingservices, helping companies go paperless, then
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we started offering software documentmanagement, then that turned into workflow and
business process management, then we starteddeveloping our own software and integrations
and consulting and add ons and just continuedto grow that integrated.
We were a BPO, so we had the service offeringand the software so some clients just wanted
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the software, some clients wanted justoutsourced service and some clients wanted both
the whole service.
Anyway, fast forward I did that, I went to USC,I took over that business after USC, did that
for over fifteen years and then sold out in2018 to a strategic that was in the business
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but missing those two things that we did.
So it was a great fit, they were happy, theygave me the cash and I handed them the keys
literally on a Friday and started the next kindof chapter of my life.
Yeah, so tell me any learnings that you hadfrom selling a business.
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So what are some things that we should thinkabout when you know you have a business?
You know, when is the right time to sell?
Are there decision making factors?
How do you find buyers?
Know, so I think someone who is just starting abusiness for the first time, they may not know
where to go.
And, you know,
they want to have an exit at some point, theyjust don't know how to do it.
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You know, who to talk to do they, you know, alot of people talk to investment bankers
sometimes, to handle the transaction or like anM and A firm.
So, you know, what were some of the processesthat you were thinking through and maybe
weighing out as you were kind of going throughthat journey of exiting?
Yeah, definitely.
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So I mean, in that case, it was kind of morelike, you know, small business bootstrap.
In many ways it was everything I didn't want,which is what I'm doing now.
When I graduated SC, it was the height of the.com bubble.
I wanted to be in venture, high growth, highimpact and instead I was kind of stuck in this
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like family business that was like, we were inbloody red ocean, bootstrap competitive, the IP
wasn't ours, we were reseller.
So I think like the exit process for many ofthe companies we work with now and ventures is
a lot different than your typical smallbusiness process.
But in that case, mean, yeah, we ran a process,I think there's a book called Built to Sell
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that was really helpful, which is like, how doyou build a business to sell by design?
And what are the principles around that?
I'd really spent a few years doing that and Ithink you run a process, you build your list of
sellers, you contact them, you meet with them.
I like the M and A process, so I took it uponmyself, I learned it.
I had some kind of like people from my peergroups, like my EO groups and stuff like that
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helping me that people that had been there donethat.
But I think a lot of people will just have likea business broker or like an investment banker
if it's a larger deal.
But I think no matter what the process is thesame, it's kind of like whether you're doing a
home repair, if you're doing an addition on asmall house or on a mansion, it's still gonna
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take you twice as long and cost twice as much.
So you have that, the exit just always takestime, the buyer always journey is a very
lengthy process usually then I think that whatI've talked to with a lot of entrepreneurs is
that what happens afterwards is very common.
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I call it the post exit identity crisis.
You spent all this time wrapped up with beingthe CEO of AMI and now that you handed the
keys, they gave you the money, there's a bigwin and then you're like, wait, who am I now
and what do I do now?
A lot of people struggle with that, some peoplesolve that by quickly starting a business
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whether that was a good idea or not.
Some people just kind of struggle with that indifferent ways but I was super intentional, I
kind of took a more purposeful path I wanted toreally get clear on.
I wanted to make this big transition to impactand how I can leave my mark on the world and
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like you know when you're an only child, youkind of are a little selfish by default because
it's just always you know it's me and my mom,so everything was always what I wanted.
So I always thought the world revolved aroundme and after my exit, needed, I wanted to make
this have this breakthrough where I could focuson everybody else now and see how I could help
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the world and how I can have a big impact.
So you know with.
Did you
have your kids when you exited?
2018, yes, I would have had, I would have hadmy first two at that time.
I feel like that you know, this is just me justtalking about myself, I feel like once you have
a kid, you know you're not in the pictureanymore.
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You're kind of like thinking about others andespecially when you hit a certain age, I mean
this is just me again you know you kind ofwonder you know what if I'm not around you know
like are the other people that are depending onme going to be okay?
I wonder if the fact that you had your kidsalso like that probably, you know, tied into
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kind of your need for impact as well.
Yeah, maybe not, you know, but I feel likeyeah.
It definitely did.
You know, I think that that's the first step oflike, oh my god, like you know, like there's
not about me anymore.
It's not about me anymore, yeah exactly andthen taking that to the next level with them.
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That was cool and then with the mentors likeTony Robbins and Peter Diamandis and stuff like
that, I think it was helpful for me to youknow, have this big moment where I could see
that that I could also be someone that couldchange the world and you know, because I don't
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know if I believed that before and
Did you go to one of the Tony Robbins sessions?
Yeah, I've always been a big Tony guy.
Did Date with Destiny in December 2018 after myexit and so that was super helpful.
I always knew like I love personaltransformation and breakthroughs and all that
but I hadn't like staked claim to that as likeknowing that to me that's the best part of life
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is like when somebody is struggling withsomething and in a moment they just get an
insight.
It could be their own reflection, it could be aquestion somebody asks, it could be hearing a
story, reading something but it flashes infront of them and that's it.
They know what they need to do and they takeaction.
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To me, that's like the coolest thing, right?
Because that's how Yeah,
I think being part of a tribe and being part ofa community is super important.
You know, I don't know if you know about likeTiger twenty one, but the purpose of Tiger
twenty one, you know, I, there's a really goodone hour discussion with one of the founders,
know, with Tiger twenty one, you know, a lot ofthose people, they come into liquidity and they
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don't really know what to do next.
Know, they have a couple communities that arebefore that.
So they have like YPO, which is a group of CEOsand it's a support system for CEOs to maybe
talk about growth and marketing and you know,being a good CEO.
But again, you know, what do you do when youhave a liquidity event?
Just, to your point, right?
Like, you're not a CEO anymore.
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So you probably don't belong in YPO anymoreunless you just rush to start another company.
So I feel like some communities, maybe likeTony Robbins or to give you a reset on your
perspective, but then also something like aTiger twenty one where there's other like
minded people that now are thinking about bothwealth creation and wealth preservation.
And, you know, the biggest thing is like savingyour money, saving money on tax, right?
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Because what really kills you now is, you know,having that money or, you know, pulling that
money out, right?
When you exit and you pull all that money outor you spend it you got to pay tax on all that
so there's a lot of great ways to you knowleverage insurance or real estate to kind of
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shield some tax implications and you know Ifeel like some groups like Tiger twenty one
could help and you know I know they share dealflow and stuff like that.
So you know you so you went to the Tony Robbinsthing and then what you know tell me about what
was going on in your head after that becauseI'm sure so sounds like you took a little bit
of time off.
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You kind of got to explore yourself a littlebit.
Obviously, yeah, I'm assuming you know you gotsome great time to spend with your family,
which you probably didn't have earlier.
And then what was kind of driving you now?
You wanted to do something impactful.
So what made you choose the fund as the vehicleto kind of get you there?
Yeah, so once I knew that I wanted to focus onhelping people, this idea of personal
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development, self actualization, like helpingpeople become their best self and as I
continued my journey of working on myself everyday and seeing how I could help others, you
know, knew like I wasn't going to do it Tony'sway doing these workshops year round and
writing books, I wanted to do it in my waywhich I felt was going to be building and
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investing in startups that do that at scaleusing technology and particularly emerging
technologies as the thesis has evolved.
The massively transformative purpose, thecanvas became helping people in this way and
then the two moonshots became, well, I wonderif I could do it as a VC and then second, well,
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I wonder if I could, I've learned about theventure studio model, fell in love with it and
I said, I wonder because I'm a process guy, Iwonder if I could do it as a studio and build
multiple startups, a startup that buildsstartup, build multiple startups in parallel,
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I'm crazy like that and so that's how UNTAPVentures was born.
UNTAP Ventures was born as a venture fund andstudio that builds and invests in emerging tech
startups that help people live their best selfWe've been validating kind of those two things
that I said, can we invest in amazing deals,could we build ventures, then really is the two
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things synergistic.
Are we going to have to pick one or the otheror can we, know, is it somehow synergistic that
we could do both kind of like two divisions butin a way that's really harmonious and
synergistic.
So that's where we're at right now.
We're like basically have been validating thatand you know I'll I'll we could talk about the
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future and where we're going, but that's that'skind of like where I got to.
Yeah, no, that's a really amazing story.
Tell us about you know for the for the peoplein the audience, they may not understand how a
venture studio works.
Maybe you can unpack that a little bit and youknow, educate them on how that complements the
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investing side as well.
I think that's kind of a good thing to hone inon because there are a handful of venture
studios, but I think it's really important tohighlight the benefits of the studio model.
And then on top of that if you're able toinvest, you can really double down and create
some outsized returns.
Yeah, yeah definitely.
Yeah, so the venture studio model likecompletely different than accelerator incubator
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and the others, the venture studio.
The difference is a studio is part offormation, so it's basically a co founder that
is giving birth to companies and playing a cofounder capacity for a period of time.
It could be our idea and we're validating itand at some point bringing in a founder to then
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become our co founder and run it.
It could be a founder's idea, but they'repartnering with us and we're becoming their co
founder, not me, but the whole studio.
I mean, I'm taking a board seat, but it's kindof like you're getting a whole SWAT team to
come join you as your co founder.
Instead of going it alone, all of a sudden youget this whole SWAT team to join you or seal
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team.
Does the co founder have to have anything builtyet?
Or are you really just backing the co founder?
Because I know like Antler, and what Antlerdoes is they just find talented people, they
find a cool product person, someone who's goodat marketing and a developer, and they just,
they find those three talented people andthey're like, hey, we want to have you work on
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something, we don't know yet, but all we knowis that you're talented.
And I think what's been unreal is, you know,there's actually a demo day, like they actually
come up with problems, and they form theseteams, and they build these products, and they
launch, and, you know, they're obviouslyscaling and raising money.
So do they do these people just come up with anidea, or do they have a prototype, or is it
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like all of the above?
Yeah, so there's even like a few models withinthe studio model, like I think like Antler and
Entrepreneur First, they're more like theproduct, sorry, the program model where they're
a little bit more like an accelerator, it'slike a six month program and they're really
their value add is the co founder matching thefact that we're going to select and bring the
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best people, we're going to help you guys meetand we're going to foster a process to create
outcomes.
I think it's a great process and we have a partof that as well.
So far with our first two venture, it's beenkind of core, we've had one core internal one,
so think of IdeaLab.
IdeaLab is the best one for internal.
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They're in Pasadena, I'm here in Glendale justnext door.
Bill Gross is kind of like the venture king.
Elon's getting close, Bill Gross still has therecord.
He has the most exits, most IPOs, the mostcompanies launched, most successful companies
like he is the king.
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And of course you could only do that through aventure studio and theirs is like very purely
internal.
They don't really care about what's going onoutside their building, they come up with their
ideas, they go through a pipeline of validatingthem and then they bring a CEO to run it.
So we have one of those, we have one that'sfounder led, we also work with corporates, so
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that corporate innovation one is reallyinteresting where corporate wants to innovate
but they know the immune system kills some oftheir efforts and so we're like the skunk works
on the side.
Ultimately all of what we're doing is gettingpackaged into kind of our version of the Antler
program, know a hybrid studio acceleratorprogram where you have multiple tracks and
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we're able to put people through it and be ableto have two types of investments that come out
of it, either a studio investment or moretraditional direct investment.
So to go back to your original question, theydon't need to have an idea and many times if
they have an idea and they're too far along,it's not a good fit for the studio model, so
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you have to catch them right at that idea stageand usually like the solo founder thing,
because if they're already two, then there's anumber of things that make a scenario not a
good fit for the studio and the studio is nottrying to be a square peg in a round hole.
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It's like there is a very strong few profilesof personas that benefit greatly from the value
prop of the studio and in that case, makessense but it doesn't make sense for everybody.
There's other solo founders or kind of cofounders that they're perfectly fine, they've
got this idea, they've been validating it, justneed some money and it's just a matter of
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putting money in that deal.
So when I say we're both, I don't just meanthat we're a studio and then we invest in our
own deals and follow on, we do that.
But we're also VC, so when we're out there,we're able to take the deal flow and then do a
quick assessment and then see, is this just anamazing deal and we just want to put money and
help them?
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Or does it make sense to take this on andactually play a co founder role and go through
that part of our factory, if you will?
Yeah, and I think the benefit and the value addis that you have that infrastructure, you have
the resources, you got the network of likegrowth marketers and developers, product
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people, so that all those people are kind of anadvisory board that you have almost like a
coalition to kind of complement and add valueto the founders that you're supporting, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Tell me, let's talk a little bit about growth.
So what are some learnings that you'd like toshare with us on?
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Do you do any consumer tech or mostly B2B SaaS?
What kind of Not a lot of consumer tech, moreB2B SaaS, Web3, So like for example, the two
studio spinouts that we have so far, one isTeamfullness.
(30:06):
Teamfullness is bringing the power neuroscienceof meditation to the workplace for yes, for
reducing stress and mental health but notreally that.
It's really more about better ideas and betterinsights and breakthrough thinking and
innovation using the power of guided businessmeditations whether done solo or as a team.
(30:28):
So we're really trying to uplift theconsciousness within business with what we're
doing there.
And then the other one is a Fitcoin which is aweb three move to earn project that allows you
to connect your wearable tracker and earnFitcoin for calories you burn.
And we have this amazing ecosystem and you haveyour custom NFT avatar, which if you're a
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runner or a hiker or a swimmer, you customize,you could use your NFT to make your your
fitcoins to make your NFT stronger, better,faster, so then when you compete in real life,
you're able to get more points.
Anyway, there's a whole ecosystem and so therewe're trying to create a healthier planet, So
again, that touches body, Fitcoin touches thebody pillar of our best self pillars and then
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team fullness touches like the work and maybeeven the mind and the soul pillars there.
Yeah, no, that's helpful.
Yeah.
And I wanted to go back to marketing becausethis is something I'm passionate about.
So, know, obviously, you know, are essentially,you know, some of these are, one of these is
enterprise SaaS.
So what are some trends that you're seeing injust product growth?
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Are you seeing B2B companies spend a lot ofmoney on social media, I guess what are just
some high level observations that you're seeingon how these companies are acquiring customers?
Right, I mean, there's it's really kind of thetraffic, then you know curating and making sure
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the traffic is targeted to the right people.
And then if you're doing enterprise SaaS, youknow, there's definitely a sales rep or some
STR that's taking the call and moving it downthe funnel to close.
But you know any observations or wisdom thatyou want to share you know based on what you're
seeing with these founders right?
You're kind of sourcing and screening all thesedeals, these founders are coming to you with
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trajectory, So what are kind of things thatyou're observing or red flags in terms of
growth?
And, you know, do you think they should bechanging?
Because I think you're at a unique standpoint,because you're building and scaling these
companies yourself in house.
So you have to kind of use very thoughtfulapproaches for growth.
(32:50):
Yeah, it's a great question and that's part oflike the whole synergies thing that I was
talking about before, So like what makes usmore valuable to our direct investments is that
we're gladiators on the field just like them.
We're going through the same tough aspects ofbuilding, recruiting, validating, failing,
(33:12):
getting frustrated, wanting to give up, having,know, hiring, retaining, building culture,
we're doing all those things, you know, inparallel for multiple ideas.
As VCs that's unique, most VCs are kind ofpicking the horse and then seeing if the horse
wins.
(33:33):
They're not out there training the horse,training the jockey and doing all those things
themselves.
So I think in that sense and then the viceversa is true as well and I'll answer your
question in a second but just to wrap up onthat synergy point, when we're you know as the
fact that we're VCs that helps us build betteras a studio because we're just more in tune
(33:58):
with what's happening in the markets, pricing,tax, we have relationships with other VCs and
all that, whereas some studios I've seen aresomewhat just in their own product or in their
own building.
To your question, based on that, really live inthe early stage.
Obviously later on, you're going to have a VPof sales, you're to have SDRs, AEs, that all
(34:22):
comes a little bit later than work pre seed andseed.
A lot of it is, what are the spear tactics foryou to initially get to and do the discovery
and validate and be able to first make surethis is an idea worth giving your next five to
ten years of your life to because I think mostpeople jump to that too quickly again because
(34:42):
of identity, they want to be a founder, theylike their idea, they're in love with their
solution and all that.
We don't, we try our best to follow ourobjective stage gate processes.
I think a lot of that is like having, we useevents like you, we're really good at doing
(35:03):
events and so building community, bringingpeople together.
We have our visionary circle, which is likevisionary corporate HR leaders that want to
hear about new and innovative offerings outthere.
I think like with a lot of products, it's justtrying to get to a customer that will hear you
(35:25):
out and will want to try it out when we'retalking about the very very very first stages.
When you're in that idea stage trying tovalidate it so we're building out our visionary
circle.
So yeah, we just try to put out amazing contentand events and community around that and then
(35:46):
letting the product then be able to easily sellthrough that.
That's kind of like the approach that we'vetaken.
Now there's nuances to every business on theWeb3, there's a whole different playbook for
Bitcoin you're launching a Web3 company.
You have your Twitter, you have your Discord,you want to drive up that engagement, want to
(36:09):
have a giveaway and so there's a differentplaybook there.
There's a little bit of a different playbookwhen you're doing a teamfulness and you're
giving people a trial and you want them to trya team meditation and facilitate that for them
so that they could have that magic moment.
I think there's some variety there but I thinka lot of it, I think we're big believers in
(36:35):
high value content and events that if you'rereally understanding the persona and serving
them and giving them something amazing, thenit's a lot easier and then running ads and
doing all that other stuff.
We're also really good with helping with theoutreach, the LinkedIn outreach.
So really figuring out who you're trying to goafter being able to find them and message to
(37:00):
them at scale to get your message out therebecause no matter what, you're gonna have to
talk to a bunch of new people to tell them whatyour value prop is to try to get them on the
phone, to try to do that discovery with andThat's the hard work.
I think for a lot of founders, they'd ratherjust go build the product, they'd rather just
go spend a year, a couple $100,000 and go buildit and have multiple versions and releases than
(37:25):
do the hard work of actually trying to like docold outreach and try to talk to brand new
people.
You know, that's not the right way to do it.
Yeah, what are some trends that you're seeingaround your pillars?
Like, let's talk about the future, right?
So, when it when it comes to mental health, itcomes to the soul or the spirit, what are some
(37:49):
exciting, things that you're seeing in thespace?
You know, because I'm sure you go to a lot ofthese industry events, know, obviously, you're
looking, you know, talking to hundreds andhundreds of companies.
So, anything that kind of sticks out out ofthose pillars that you're really excited about,
that's probably still early, but probably nottoo far away and you want to be one of the
(38:12):
people kind of jumping on that before it's tooovercrowded.
Yeah, I mean, if we start off with like mind,we know on the mind side, like just mental
health is a big deal, epic numbers and a numberof issues like anxiety, depression, all that.
I think the psychedelics present some reallyinteresting potential.
(38:37):
I like to start there because to me that's areally good example of an emerging technology
that helps with the best self, like we don'tcome at it from like, oh, we love psychedelics
and I know there's some psychedelics VCs andstuff like that.
Our point is whatever is going to help achievethis pillar.
I think brain computing interface is also goingto help from a mental and from a personal
(39:02):
growth when we can put the chip in and connectour mind to the cloud and all that.
I think those are a couple of interestingthings there.
Think from the money and career and I think Webthree point is providing an interesting new
elevation for humanity as its power to thepeople and I now own my own data.
(39:23):
I'm not being monetized and I could leveragethis to my advantage and I could do a lot of
new things.
We've made some investments there,decentralized finance, DeFi.
I think those are some of the ones that kind ofjump out at me that we've already made
(39:46):
investments.
There's a lot of work to be done at work andthe future of work and we were going through
the great resignation and now kind of the greatlayoffs and stuff are here and so there's just
a lot of help to get people into jobs that theywant to be at, that they could really thrive
(40:07):
at, that it fulfills their passions, is theirsuperpowers to give them training to get to the
next level and so that they could become theirbest self at work.
That was our original thesis was like the newfuture of work, which is that we spend most of
our waking hours at work, so let's help peoplereally crush that category.
(40:30):
I was talking to a Fortune 100 today abouttheir needs for the future of work and taking
care of their employees because recruiting andretention is so important.
Do you see people, you know, with the greatresignation?
Where have you seen them go?
Have you seen them just leave a job and justnever come back and do something on their own
(40:55):
and build something?
Or do you just see them taking some time off?
Or do just see them kind of hop in and go intoanother job?
And I guess how how do you think that's gonnachange in the next, you know, maybe one or two
years?
Because some people are still going back to theoffice but they don't have the pressure of
being there every day.
So, a lot of them are kind of a hybrid workscenario.
(41:18):
So, how do you think that's going to play tothe employees and then also to the to the
companies?
Like how do you think that's gonna impact thoseorganizations?
The last chapter we were in was the chapterwhere the great resignation was all about my
bar for what I expect from this company that Iwork at or any company is really high and
(41:42):
therefore if at any time any of my values areviolated, then I'm just gonna walk because I
know there's plenty of other options and sothen people were able to then go pursue other
options whether it was like try my hand at someentrepreneurial thing or go get another job,
take a couple months off and go get another jobafterwards.
(42:04):
The opportunities were endless and we're stillin a really good market.
Now it's going to be interesting because nowthere's all these layoffs happening as we're
entering a recession and
rescinded job offers too.
I've never seen that before you know evenduring the recession of two thousand and eight
(42:25):
I didn't hear about that as often like butthere's just a huge slew of people that are
getting offers and then they're gettingrescinded.
Yeah, so that might change employeesoptionality.
But I hope it doesn't change this wave thatwe've been on for the awakening and looking at
(42:49):
the job, not just as a paycheck and just beingat a job that you hate or that you're not a big
fan of the companies, work, your teammates, butyou're there because you need to pay the bills.
Take that extra time and like actually findsomething you're going to be more fulfilled
than life's too short.
(43:10):
I think like the concept of work has only beenaround for a couple hundred years in the
industrial age, the last hundred years so likeyou know before that we were just hunter
gatherers and we you know there wasn't thisidea so when it started it was very much go to
the factory, do this thing and clock in clockout get this money.
Now we're in the phase we're like wait why do Ihave to go there?
(43:32):
Why don't I why am I here on this planet?
And what is the point of my life?
And what do I want to get out of it?
Let me go somewhere where I could be the bestexpression of that.
Yeah.
And so I think that trend hopefully willcontinue but it'll be a little bit more
difficult for people because all of a suddenyou weren't expecting you got laid off and
(43:59):
you're gonna need to have some money to payrent next month or whatever.
Again, I think we entered a new chapter andit'll be interesting to see what happens.
Yeah, no, I agree.
And what are some of the sectors that you'remost excited about?
I know you're, you know, you focus on pre seed.
(44:21):
But, you know, along with the sectors, whatwhat do you think is a pattern of a good
founder?
Because you you know, obviously, you've been asuccessful entrepreneur, your father has too.
So what are some common trends that you'reseeing or threads that you're seeing in terms
of like evaluating founders and knowing thatthey're going to win?
Yeah, that's a great question.
(44:43):
Mean that's what it all boils down to right, isit's like it's the founder.
I think one of the things is just like aptitudedoesn't get talked about enough.
Think just the pure smarts to figure thingsout, the resourcefulness, of course the grit.
I think like the execution, one of the favoritelines that I heard that I use, I heard it from
(45:08):
another VC a couple years ago and has becomepretty central to how I evaluate things is it's
your delta in your personal growth from everytime I talk to you.
So if I talk to you today and then I talk toyou whether it's in a week or three weeks or
(45:29):
two months like not, I don't care how much yourbusiness grew but how much did you personally
grow and what I want to hear is what are allthe things you did and all the things that know
that what you learned, You might have had somewins and you probably had some losses but you
(45:49):
learned some things out of it but you gotsmarter.
I think that sometimes you talk to people andthey're stagnant or their rate of growth is
really slow, like the universe, you want afounder that's rapidly expanding and so that's
the biggest thing I look for.
Like when we ran our accelerator, when you havea cohort, it's a lot easier because you see,
(46:12):
you know, you could see from week to week who'sjust like listening and crushing and going far
over and above and then you could tell and youknow, so we had somebody that really stuck out
last year we're getting the opportunity and heraised 3,500,000.0 within two months of
graduating our program.
(46:33):
Came in, he was kind of like the earliest, themost was at the idea stage whereas others were
much further along and by the time hegraduated, he raised money and much more money
than any of them.
Raised 3,500,000.0 within two months and he'sraising money again and we're getting to invest
(46:53):
again.
So I think that's the biggest thing that I lookfor is especially if I'm gonna be working with
them closely and we're at the pre seed wherethere isn't as much of the company stuff is how
well are they listening and then how well didthey execute what we talked about and other
things that they learned from other people andhow much did they grow since the last time I
(47:14):
talked to them.
Yeah, no, that's good advice.
I think definitely like, you know, trackingwhat they're doing and then kind of having some
metrics around that as well.
I'm assuming is good too.
On the personal growth side, it's, it's less ofa data driven thing, but more of kind of a
progress, more qualitative assessment I'massuming right?
(47:37):
Yeah exactly yeah it's just what they'retelling you right it's like there's no data
it's just like oh yeah you know I tried this Iknow you said that and I tried that and what I
learned was this and I talked to this other guyand I contacted the VP at Twitter and then I
talked to 20 customers.
Wait, you talked to 20 customers in a week?
Yeah, well how'd you do that?
(47:57):
Well, I quickly ran this ad and then I likethis person just is high execution, high
resourceful, there's no hitting a wall, it'sjust this constant thing of like, okay, this
happened, now what do I do next, now what do Ido next?
They're just constantly running experimentsuntil they get to the next answer and they
could just figure it out if they can't dosomething themselves.
(48:18):
I went on Fiverr, I posted a job, I got thisvideo editor, he gave me the video, I posted it
here and then I took it to the mall and I tooka clipboard I talked about 35 people I quickly
learned this I came back I changed the website.
You know I mean like in the early stages, whenyou hear you know someone like that, like you
just like they're not scared Other foundersmight have been stuck at the first step until
(48:43):
you talk to them, they're waiting for thementoring call.
Like, oh, I tried that, it didn't work.
No man, you gotta go and you gotta go fast andyou gotta run through that wall.
So I mean, think those are some of the thingsthat I look for.
No, that's helpful.
Just switching gears here.
I love any advice that you have for emergingmanagers because now you're really going
(49:06):
through that journey.
Now you've learned a lot.
You've also definitely grown from last year tonow, And just so many different lessons.
So what are some learnings that you've learnedfrom raising the fund and just things that you
would like to pass on to somebody that's maybestarting on that journey?
Yeah, it's a great question.
(49:30):
Yeah, so I didn't have any fundraising trackrecord prior to this first fund that I raised.
Like I said, the business that I sold wasbootstrapped so this was all new to me and
it
was definitely a struggle.
Mean, it's hard, kind of like no track recordraising a fund in the pandemic know, so luckily
(49:58):
it's all gone well and now I'm looking to raise$25,000,000 fund too and now I'm thinking about
the challenges of that bigger hill to climb.
But I guess if I look back on this journey andbe reflective, which is interesting because I
haven't done that, I think that it's very clearthat the first thing that people invested in
(50:25):
was me, not necessarily the thesis and thespecifics of what's in the deck, was really
just liking me.
And I'm not saying that I'm special, but I justthink that the learning is that they're
investing in you, the emerging manager, thatthat they don't understand all the details.
They understand enough, but they're really justbetting on, hey, like, okay, Joel says he's
(50:49):
gonna go, you know, find the the best unicornsin NYC.
Okay, he's showing me a process, I trust him,he's gonna go do that or Joel's telling me he's
gonna create a fund of funds and invest in thebest emerging VCs from across the world.
Okay, you know like it, you know, so I thinkit's first like the the just like when we
(51:10):
invest in startups like first that founder so Ithink that that's pretty big.
I think it's normal to think that it's yourthesis and your deal flow and how you're going
to get deals and is it fintech, is it web threeand all that and I think all that matters but I
(51:30):
think it's first and foremost you.
That's like learning number one and thenlearning number two is just I think that I've
really understood now that the structure in thegame of when your angels and high net worths
come in early and those you're selling to anindividual and next are your family offices and
(51:54):
a little more structure but bigger checks andthen you have your fund of funds next and those
are bigger checks, more diligence, you need tohave more of a track record so at first, I was
just learning all that and I think it takes awhile to understand that landscape and
(52:15):
understand where to go and so I don't know ifthere's a way for you to make it.
I'm sure that's what you do is you make it easyfor them, you give them kind of a lay of the
land and tell them like start here and then gothere.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's tricky too because there's differentpeople coming in from different points, right?
(52:37):
So there's people that are on fun too and eventhough they have a track record, sometimes fun
too and even fun three is like a completelydifferent ballgame.
The personas that you were targeting before whowere like 100, you know, the the 68 angels that
you knew that all wrote, you know, 50 to 100 kchecks.
(53:00):
They're just too small to be in the next fund.
And you just, it's just not scalable for you,or it doesn't make sense to kind of just have
all those people come in with the small checks.
You're going to probably get more strategicpartnerships with, you know, larger, you know,
some institutional, but more, you know,strategic LPs that kind of are interested in
(53:22):
your sector that want to invest on number oneto back you because they believe in you.
But then there's also some perks that they getwhere they can co invest as well and get access
to those deals.
And, you know, when you do your communityevents, and when you do your accelerator
events, you know, they get access to that too.
They kind of building that platform approach,which is kind of what you're doing is, is
(53:44):
definitely a smart way to, to do it.
So any advice, I know you've done a coupleevents in the past, any advice on maybe
founders that are trying to host investorevents, and then also now like LP, you know,
GPs trying to do events for LPs, know, what aresome of the learnings that you learn maybe for
(54:05):
both?
Yeah, I think if you can kind of like figureout where your target market is and then
there's like let's say a conference alreadyhappening and then be able to kind of throw
your own party there.
Like in our case, we threw like a closing partyof one of the tribes that I'm part of that has
(54:28):
a lot of our LPs and that went off really welllike you know over a couple like almost a
couple 100 people attended and you know we'reable to meet some new investors through that.
I think like as there's live events figuringout like if there's a blockchain conference,
you go there and you might host some drinks ordo like a kind of an event inside an event kind
(54:52):
of a deal.
I think that's one way to do it as live eventsare coming back.
Maybe something similar on the virtual isgetting to but we also like to organize our own
events so again if you think about it and yousay what would my, you know, if you're a, I'm
(55:15):
just gonna make something up, if you're a, welllike in our case, right, so For example, for
teamfullness, If we're gonna want to raise frominvestors that would be aligned with the
teamfullness mission, Zoom, So it would makesense for us to do an event that would have
(55:38):
some kind of a theme to meditation andconsciousness and conscious capitalism and
something like that and then we could put on anevent that is teaching and bringing this
concept and then that would bring the rightpeople and at some point in that event we could
talk about the product and the opportunity toinvest in stuff like that.
(56:01):
So I think about what your persona is lookingfor, create a cool event that if you were one
of them, you would take an hour to attend andthen just make it really amazing and then
you'll get the opportunity to meet a bunch ofpeople and they'll get to know you.
You'll be doing them everything in contentmarketing and if you listen to all the
(56:22):
marketers, the successful ones, it's all aboutlike serve your persona, give them something
for free, like go over and above, just takecare of them and then at some point there'll be
an opportunity for you to tell them aboutwhatever you're trying to sell.
Yeah.
And
so we've taken that content marketing approachto heart and do that with our events as well.
(56:46):
Are some and this is the last question herebecause I know we're out of time, but what you
know when you say content marketing, what aresome pieces of content that you like to pair
together with different goals?
Like you know what do you you know do you useTwitter or Instagram for a certain thing versus
marketing on Facebook or newsletters I guessare there some channels that you've seen have
(57:10):
been kind of the best traction for startups?
Yeah, so like when we wanted to break throughwith Web three, we hosted a Web three vent, you
know, what is the web3 venture landscape andwhat are the investment opportunities and at
that time like we didn't think we're in aposition to put an event on like that but
(57:34):
that's the other nice thing about it is it's aforcing function.
Then as a team, we work together, we outlineit, we create the content, so in a way we end
up creating the most freshest objective contenton that topic and recent's too busy, they don't
care about putting on an event like that, theyalready have all the deal flow and all that but
(57:56):
there's a lot of people that are trying tolearn so now all of a sudden we had investors
attend our event, we had founders and startupsattend our event, we had corporates and stuff
like that, so that's like a good example wherewe took something that we wanted to get into,
we put together a high value event, we did itin a webinar format to answer your question and
(58:18):
then now we have that as an evergreen asset,people still watch that, people still get a ton
of value out.
Actually, had a spike in traffic when the wholecrypto crash happened because I think more
people just wanted to understand like what isthis, like what's happening here and so we've
had a spike in traffic to that asset.
(58:41):
Yeah, well all good insights.
Know, I really appreciated your story.
Super inspiring and happy to hear about all thesuccess that you've had and excited for the
future and and wanted to personally thank you.
And, you know, I'm glad that we've been able tobuild an awesome friendship.
So, you know, definitely big things ahead.
And, and yeah, thanks for everything, George,you know, thanks for coming on the show and,
(59:05):
and we'll keep in touch.
Yeah, likewise, Joel, thank you.
Thank you for having me as part of cohort fiveof your fund accelerator.
It's been a blast to be part of that.
What a great group you've put together andthanks for having me on today and I know a few
people were asking about some of the info.
(59:26):
We have our website is untapped.ventures andsome people were asking how to join the studio,
like how to work with the studio and that'sjust untapped.
Venturescapital.
But yeah, so I just wanted to answer some ofthe open questions that were out there.
But yeah, thanks Joel, thanks for having me andso it was a blast to just be able to kind of
(59:51):
know, no script, just kind of catch up and justchitchat.
Yep, absolutely.
And I got your link on the post as well, soI'll share that with everybody else also.
For everyone that wants to apply, yeah, onceagain, untapped.
Venturescapital.
Cool.
Not a lot of consumer tech, more B2B, SaaS,Web3.
(00:10):
Like for example, the two studio spinouts thatwe have so far, one is Teamfullness.
Teamfullness is bringing the power neuroscienceof meditation to the workplace for reducing
stress and mental health but not really that.
It's really more about better ideas and betterinsights and breakthrough thinking and
(00:31):
innovation using the power of guided businessmeditations whether done solo or as a team.
So we're really trying to uplift theconsciousness within business with what we're
doing there.
And then the other one is a Fitcoin, which is aWeb3 Move to Earn project that allows you to
(00:52):
connect your wearable tracker and earn Fitcoinfor calories you burn.
Welcome to The Investor, a podcast where I,Joel Palafinkel, your host, dives deep into the
minds of the world's most influentialinstitutional investors.
In each episode, we sit down with an investorto hear about their journeys and how global
(01:14):
markets are driving capital allocation.
So join us on this journey as we explore theseinsights.
Alright, so I'm just gonna go live.
So I believe we are live.
So excited to have George Bandarrian on ourshow.
(01:34):
You know, every week we've got different VCscoming in.
People that are in venture, people that are inprivate equity.
We've had some people in real estate privateequity.
So excited to learn about you, George, and yourbackground, your story.
I know you have had a really interestingjourney.
You started a company, took that company reallyto an exciting exit point and now really just
(02:00):
building a firm.
And, you know, a couple of times you and I havetalked about this, you know, just your passion
and just your legacy that you want to build asyou kind of build this into an eventual
institution, right so.
So let's just start from the beginning, youknow, tell us about you, your background, your
family.
(02:21):
What did you study.
Did you know about venture when you werestarting out.
How did you discover venture?
And, you know, let's just start all the wayfrom there and then take us to where we are and
then I'll probably just chime in with somequestions in between and have some fun with it.
Yeah, yeah, that sounds good.
It's a big starting point, but it's always goodto get the context out early.
(02:45):
So yeah, George Bandirian with untappedventures, born and raised here in LA.
So I guess the story that relates to everythingstarts when I was a baby, I was one and a half
and my dad passed.
And you know, so kind of growing up without adad that you know has an impact on you.
(03:09):
And you know, the common thing that I think alot of us face is just that feeling of, know,
not being good enough.
He struggled with alcoholism and so, but I'dheard all these things about how much he loved
me and he'd waited to have, you know, son andall that.
So I couldn't understand why he couldn't likeput it aside to be with me, you know, growing
(03:32):
up.
But luckily- How old did
you know him till?
Did you know him like as a child or was he?
I was a baby, so one and Okay, a got it.
So not a single memory, no zero connection.
I have like a box of his memorabilia and he wasin newspapers and he had a really interesting
(03:53):
life, but I don't remember him at all.
Well, us about his life.
I mean, I think that's kind of good to knowabout as well.
What was he in the newspapers for?
Yeah, so he was an entrepreneur.
He's an interesting immigrant story.
He basically so we're Armenian.
(04:13):
Our family had gone to Iran after the genocide,the Armenian genocide that happened.
His family was in Iran and he wanted to come toThe United States.
He was born on July 4.
He was crazy about America, about the land ofopportunity, the American dream.
(04:36):
So he actually snuck on this ship coming to NewYork and he got discovered halfway through.
They couldn't throw him out.
They were going to dump him off at one of theports, but he convinced them to them be a chef,
so he started cooking for them and he was verycharismatic.
(05:00):
One thing that everybody I knew my dad has toldme is like he was like just like uber
charismatic.
Anyway, he convinced them to bring him to NewYork.
Soon as they got to New York, he jumped off andstarted his life in New York.
Just for perspective, I'm 42, if he were alive,he would be like about, his birthday just
(05:22):
passed on July 4, he would be, I think like 90.
So he had me later in life.
Yeah.
Right.
And so anyway, that start and so this is like1940, I'm talking about right now, 1940 in New
(05:44):
York or 1950 maybe at the latest starting hislife here.
So anyway, he went through a whole journey, hewas like a sportscaster, he was on radio, he
was in the newspaper, he ended up being anentrepreneur, a company which then my mom took
over when he passed and then I took over when Iwas growing up and starting to fall in love
(06:10):
with business.
No, it's exciting.
You've got a couple siblings as well, Only
child.
Okay.
Didn't get a chance.
Was the first born and that he passed so Ididn't get a chance to have siblings.
I have a couple of stepbrothers and also nothaving that.
Not having a dad, not having siblings is whatreally led me to few big life decisions.
(06:36):
One was, A, that I want to be the best dad onthe planet and I want to have a lot of kids.
So my life vision was to have three boysfollowed by a girl and somehow I manifested
that, at least a lot of that.
Have three boys and we're thinking about thegirls so we'll see.
How's your little one doing by the way?
(06:58):
She's doing well you know it's funny in the youknow I've got you know in the Indian culture
people are always trying to have a boy and youknow some people will have like, they'll just
keep having kids until they have a boy.
So like one of my cousins in New Jersey haslike five, he has three daughters.
So he's like, he's gonna be, you know, he'sgonna be cursed if he gets like a fourth
(07:22):
daughter, you know, he's like, damn, I thoughtfourth would be a charm.
But yeah, you know, I mean, kids and family area blessing and, and, know, I, it's kind of
funny to see all these dots kind of connectsomehow, right?
I mean, I feel like some of that, you know, Isee that kind of fueled in, in, you know,
(07:42):
you're fired to be an entrepreneur.
You know, look, starting a fund is anentrepreneurial endeavor, right?
It's a company, you're building a brand, youhave a website, you know, you're marketing,
your storytelling, so it's a company,definitely, right?
So I feel and it's interesting because that hewas a sportscaster a lot of times just the art
(08:04):
of communication and building a brand is reallyjust through different channels.
One is through spoken word, Some people havethe gift of writing, right?
If you think about like the prolific authors ofour time, so it's definitely a gift if you can,
you know, project your voice and make itsomething that people enjoy listening to.
(08:25):
So I feel like definitely some of those giftspassed on.
And then tell me about the business that, youknow, the transition process from like your mom
handing over handling the business to youhandling the business.
Then was that the business that you ended upgrowing and scaling or was there like a new
business to start it after that?
(08:46):
We'd love to kind of know the origin story orkind of like how that business evolved.
Yeah, so basically the business that he startedwas something called microfilm, micro fish.
Oh yes, that's him, like the stuff that you seein the library?
Yeah, I mean not that he invented it per se,that was the world that we were in.
(09:11):
And so yeah, so basically, so he started that,started, you know, it was a growing business,
he was doing really good, and then, you know,he was setting up like the second office in
like Louisiana or something and then he passed.
My mom was also an immigrant, she had justgotten here and so she was just trying to
figure out a lot of things and all of a suddenshe's widowed with a baby and a business and
(09:40):
she barely spoke English.
She was a teacher back home and all that so shemade it work.
She's definitely a big role model and how shewas able to manage adversity and so she ran
that as just kind of this maintenance businessgrowing up.
So it was always like we had this business, itwas like we had clients like Disney, she got
(10:00):
clients like Walt Disney and Dole PackagedFoods and all these marquee clients.
So yeah, what was using
the MicroFish for?
Was it to store like articles, like newspaperarticles?
Was magazine content?
Exactly.
That was what paperless and document imagingwas back then was you could take a room full of
(10:24):
file cabinets and it was accounting records, itwas HR files, it was like one of the use cases
was like well logs, like oil well logs.
They needed, know, there was no data like thisis, when my dad started it was in the '68 and
then, you know, this is now when I was a kid,it was in the 80s.
So, there's like all these, you know, thegreen, the green bar reports and all that.
(10:49):
That's what we did and then when I was 17, Iwent to my first trade show in Atlanta and I
remember like it was my first time by myselfand on the flight, I'm not sure what happened,
my eyes got completely inflamed and irritatedand they were puffy and red and I got to the
trade show the next day, I couldn't seeanything and I was 17, I was intimidated and I
(11:14):
couldn't see anything, but all I could see waslike there was 10 micrographics vendors and
like 200 document imaging vendors and I waslike, all right, so clearly this is where the
industry is going.
So that's really where kind of myentrepreneurial journey began was like, brought
on the document imaging, like it was digitaltransformation it was called that.
We started as offering document imagingservices, helping companies go paperless, then
(11:38):
we started offering software documentmanagement, then that turned into workflow and
business process management, then we starteddeveloping our own software and integrations
and consulting and add ons and just continuedto grow that integrated.
We were a BPO, so we had the service offeringand the software so some clients just wanted
(12:03):
the software, some clients wanted justoutsourced service and some clients wanted both
the whole service.
Anyway, fast forward I did that, I went to USC,I took over that business after USC, did that
for over fifteen years and then sold out in2018 to a strategic that was in the business
(12:28):
but missing those two things that we did.
So it was a great fit, they were happy, theygave me the cash and I handed them the keys
literally on a Friday and started the next kindof chapter of my life.
Yeah, so tell me any learnings that you hadfrom selling a business.
(12:49):
So what are some things that we should thinkabout when you know you have a business?
You know, when is the right time to sell?
Are there decision making factors?
How do you find buyers?
Know, so I think someone who is just starting abusiness for the first time, they may not know
where to go.
And, you know,
they want to have an exit at some point, theyjust don't know how to do it.
(13:13):
You know, who to talk to do they, you know, alot of people talk to investment bankers
sometimes, to handle the transaction or like anM and A firm.
So, you know, what were some of the processesthat you were thinking through and maybe
weighing out as you were kind of going throughthat journey of exiting?
Yeah, definitely.
(13:35):
So I mean, in that case, it was kind of morelike, you know, small business bootstrap.
In many ways it was everything I didn't want,which is what I'm doing now.
When I graduated SC, it was the height of the.com bubble.
I wanted to be in venture, high growth, highimpact and instead I was kind of stuck in this
(13:58):
like family business that was like, we were inbloody red ocean, bootstrap competitive, the IP
wasn't ours, we were reseller.
So I think like the exit process for many ofthe companies we work with now and ventures is
a lot different than your typical smallbusiness process.
But in that case, mean, yeah, we ran a process,I think there's a book called Built to Sell
(14:22):
that was really helpful, which is like, how doyou build a business to sell by design?
And what are the principles around that?
I'd really spent a few years doing that and Ithink you run a process, you build your list of
sellers, you contact them, you meet with them.
I like the M and A process, so I took it uponmyself, I learned it.
I had some kind of like people from my peergroups, like my EO groups and stuff like that
(14:48):
helping me that people that had been there donethat.
But I think a lot of people will just have likea business broker or like an investment banker
if it's a larger deal.
But I think no matter what the process is thesame, it's kind of like whether you're doing a
home repair, if you're doing an addition on asmall house or on a mansion, it's still gonna
(15:13):
take you twice as long and cost twice as much.
So you have that, the exit just always takestime, the buyer always journey is a very
lengthy process usually then I think that whatI've talked to with a lot of entrepreneurs is
that what happens afterwards is very common.
(15:34):
I call it the post exit identity crisis.
You spent all this time wrapped up with beingthe CEO of AMI and now that you handed the
keys, they gave you the money, there's a bigwin and then you're like, wait, who am I now
and what do I do now?
A lot of people struggle with that, some peoplesolve that by quickly starting a business
(15:58):
whether that was a good idea or not.
Some people just kind of struggle with that indifferent ways but I was super intentional, I
kind of took a more purposeful path I wanted toreally get clear on.
I wanted to make this big transition to impactand how I can leave my mark on the world and
(16:19):
like you know when you're an only child, youkind of are a little selfish by default because
it's just always you know it's me and my mom,so everything was always what I wanted.
So I always thought the world revolved aroundme and after my exit, needed, I wanted to make
this have this breakthrough where I could focuson everybody else now and see how I could help
(16:43):
the world and how I can have a big impact.
So you know with.
Did you
have your kids when you exited?
2018, yes, I would have had, I would have hadmy first two at that time.
I feel like that you know, this is just me justtalking about myself, I feel like once you have
a kid, you know you're not in the pictureanymore.
(17:06):
You're kind of like thinking about others andespecially when you hit a certain age, I mean
this is just me again you know you kind ofwonder you know what if I'm not around you know
like are the other people that are depending onme going to be okay?
I wonder if the fact that you had your kidsalso like that probably, you know, tied into
(17:26):
kind of your need for impact as well.
Yeah, maybe not, you know, but I feel likeyeah.
It definitely did.
You know, I think that that's the first step oflike, oh my god, like you know, like there's
not about me anymore.
It's not about me anymore, yeah exactly andthen taking that to the next level with them.
(17:51):
That was cool and then with the mentors likeTony Robbins and Peter Diamandis and stuff like
that, I think it was helpful for me to youknow, have this big moment where I could see
that that I could also be someone that couldchange the world and you know, because I don't
(18:12):
know if I believed that before and
Did you go to one of the Tony Robbins sessions?
Yeah, I've always been a big Tony guy.
Did Date with Destiny in December 2018 after myexit and so that was super helpful.
I always knew like I love personaltransformation and breakthroughs and all that
but I hadn't like staked claim to that as likeknowing that to me that's the best part of life
(18:39):
is like when somebody is struggling withsomething and in a moment they just get an
insight.
It could be their own reflection, it could be aquestion somebody asks, it could be hearing a
story, reading something but it flashes infront of them and that's it.
They know what they need to do and they takeaction.
(19:01):
To me, that's like the coolest thing, right?
Because that's how Yeah,
I think being part of a tribe and being part ofa community is super important.
You know, I don't know if you know about likeTiger twenty one, but the purpose of Tiger
twenty one, you know, I, there's a really goodone hour discussion with one of the founders,
know, with Tiger twenty one, you know, a lot ofthose people, they come into liquidity and they
(19:25):
don't really know what to do next.
Know, they have a couple communities that arebefore that.
So they have like YPO, which is a group of CEOsand it's a support system for CEOs to maybe
talk about growth and marketing and you know,being a good CEO.
But again, you know, what do you do when youhave a liquidity event?
Just, to your point, right?
Like, you're not a CEO anymore.
(19:46):
So you probably don't belong in YPO anymoreunless you just rush to start another company.
So I feel like some communities, maybe likeTony Robbins or to give you a reset on your
perspective, but then also something like aTiger twenty one where there's other like
minded people that now are thinking about bothwealth creation and wealth preservation.
And, you know, the biggest thing is like savingyour money, saving money on tax, right?
(20:10):
Because what really kills you now is, you know,having that money or, you know, pulling that
money out, right?
When you exit and you pull all that money outor you spend it you got to pay tax on all that
so there's a lot of great ways to you knowleverage insurance or real estate to kind of
(20:31):
shield some tax implications and you know Ifeel like some groups like Tiger twenty one
could help and you know I know they share dealflow and stuff like that.
So you know you so you went to the Tony Robbinsthing and then what you know tell me about what
was going on in your head after that becauseI'm sure so sounds like you took a little bit
of time off.
(20:51):
You kind of got to explore yourself a littlebit.
Obviously, yeah, I'm assuming you know you gotsome great time to spend with your family,
which you probably didn't have earlier.
And then what was kind of driving you now?
You wanted to do something impactful.
So what made you choose the fund as the vehicleto kind of get you there?
Yeah, so once I knew that I wanted to focus onhelping people, this idea of personal
(21:19):
development, self actualization, like helpingpeople become their best self and as I
continued my journey of working on myself everyday and seeing how I could help others, you
know, knew like I wasn't going to do it Tony'sway doing these workshops year round and
writing books, I wanted to do it in my waywhich I felt was going to be building and
(21:41):
investing in startups that do that at scaleusing technology and particularly emerging
technologies as the thesis has evolved.
The massively transformative purpose, thecanvas became helping people in this way and
then the two moonshots became, well, I wonderif I could do it as a VC and then second, well,
(22:05):
I wonder if I could, I've learned about theventure studio model, fell in love with it and
I said, I wonder because I'm a process guy, Iwonder if I could do it as a studio and build
multiple startups, a startup that buildsstartup, build multiple startups in parallel,
(22:25):
I'm crazy like that and so that's how UNTAPVentures was born.
UNTAP Ventures was born as a venture fund andstudio that builds and invests in emerging tech
startups that help people live their best selfWe've been validating kind of those two things
that I said, can we invest in amazing deals,could we build ventures, then really is the two
(22:54):
things synergistic.
Are we going to have to pick one or the otheror can we, know, is it somehow synergistic that
we could do both kind of like two divisions butin a way that's really harmonious and
synergistic.
So that's where we're at right now.
We're like basically have been validating thatand you know I'll I'll we could talk about the
(23:17):
future and where we're going, but that's that'skind of like where I got to.
Yeah, no, that's a really amazing story.
Tell us about you know for the for the peoplein the audience, they may not understand how a
venture studio works.
Maybe you can unpack that a little bit and youknow, educate them on how that complements the
(23:41):
investing side as well.
I think that's kind of a good thing to hone inon because there are a handful of venture
studios, but I think it's really important tohighlight the benefits of the studio model.
And then on top of that if you're able toinvest, you can really double down and create
some outsized returns.
Yeah, yeah definitely.
Yeah, so the venture studio model likecompletely different than accelerator incubator
(24:06):
and the others, the venture studio.
The difference is a studio is part offormation, so it's basically a co founder that
is giving birth to companies and playing a cofounder capacity for a period of time.
It could be our idea and we're validating itand at some point bringing in a founder to then
(24:32):
become our co founder and run it.
It could be a founder's idea, but they'repartnering with us and we're becoming their co
founder, not me, but the whole studio.
I mean, I'm taking a board seat, but it's kindof like you're getting a whole SWAT team to
come join you as your co founder.
Instead of going it alone, all of a sudden youget this whole SWAT team to join you or seal
(24:56):
team.
Does the co founder have to have anything builtyet?
Or are you really just backing the co founder?
Because I know like Antler, and what Antlerdoes is they just find talented people, they
find a cool product person, someone who's goodat marketing and a developer, and they just,
they find those three talented people andthey're like, hey, we want to have you work on
(25:17):
something, we don't know yet, but all we knowis that you're talented.
And I think what's been unreal is, you know,there's actually a demo day, like they actually
come up with problems, and they form theseteams, and they build these products, and they
launch, and, you know, they're obviouslyscaling and raising money.
So do they do these people just come up with anidea, or do they have a prototype, or is it
(25:40):
like all of the above?
Yeah, so there's even like a few models withinthe studio model, like I think like Antler and
Entrepreneur First, they're more like theproduct, sorry, the program model where they're
a little bit more like an accelerator, it'slike a six month program and they're really
their value add is the co founder matching thefact that we're going to select and bring the
(26:06):
best people, we're going to help you guys meetand we're going to foster a process to create
outcomes.
I think it's a great process and we have a partof that as well.
So far with our first two venture, it's beenkind of core, we've had one core internal one,
so think of IdeaLab.
IdeaLab is the best one for internal.
(26:27):
They're in Pasadena, I'm here in Glendale justnext door.
Bill Gross is kind of like the venture king.
Elon's getting close, Bill Gross still has therecord.
He has the most exits, most IPOs, the mostcompanies launched, most successful companies
like he is the king.
(26:47):
And of course you could only do that through aventure studio and theirs is like very purely
internal.
They don't really care about what's going onoutside their building, they come up with their
ideas, they go through a pipeline of validatingthem and then they bring a CEO to run it.
So we have one of those, we have one that'sfounder led, we also work with corporates, so
(27:08):
that corporate innovation one is reallyinteresting where corporate wants to innovate
but they know the immune system kills some oftheir efforts and so we're like the skunk works
on the side.
Ultimately all of what we're doing is gettingpackaged into kind of our version of the Antler
program, know a hybrid studio acceleratorprogram where you have multiple tracks and
(27:34):
we're able to put people through it and be ableto have two types of investments that come out
of it, either a studio investment or moretraditional direct investment.
So to go back to your original question, theydon't need to have an idea and many times if
they have an idea and they're too far along,it's not a good fit for the studio model, so
(27:59):
you have to catch them right at that idea stageand usually like the solo founder thing,
because if they're already two, then there's anumber of things that make a scenario not a
good fit for the studio and the studio is nottrying to be a square peg in a round hole.
(28:20):
It's like there is a very strong few profilesof personas that benefit greatly from the value
prop of the studio and in that case, makessense but it doesn't make sense for everybody.
There's other solo founders or kind of cofounders that they're perfectly fine, they've
got this idea, they've been validating it, justneed some money and it's just a matter of
(28:42):
putting money in that deal.
So when I say we're both, I don't just meanthat we're a studio and then we invest in our
own deals and follow on, we do that.
But we're also VC, so when we're out there,we're able to take the deal flow and then do a
quick assessment and then see, is this just anamazing deal and we just want to put money and
help them?
(29:02):
Or does it make sense to take this on andactually play a co founder role and go through
that part of our factory, if you will?
Yeah, and I think the benefit and the value addis that you have that infrastructure, you have
the resources, you got the network of likegrowth marketers and developers, product
(29:23):
people, so that all those people are kind of anadvisory board that you have almost like a
coalition to kind of complement and add valueto the founders that you're supporting, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Tell me, let's talk a little bit about growth.
So what are some learnings that you'd like toshare with us on?
(29:45):
Do you do any consumer tech or mostly B2B SaaS?
What kind of Not a lot of consumer tech, moreB2B SaaS, Web3, So like for example, the two
studio spinouts that we have so far, one isTeamfullness.
(30:06):
Teamfullness is bringing the power neuroscienceof meditation to the workplace for yes, for
reducing stress and mental health but notreally that.
It's really more about better ideas and betterinsights and breakthrough thinking and
innovation using the power of guided businessmeditations whether done solo or as a team.
(30:28):
So we're really trying to uplift theconsciousness within business with what we're
doing there.
And then the other one is a Fitcoin which is aweb three move to earn project that allows you
to connect your wearable tracker and earnFitcoin for calories you burn.
And we have this amazing ecosystem and you haveyour custom NFT avatar, which if you're a
(30:52):
runner or a hiker or a swimmer, you customize,you could use your NFT to make your your
fitcoins to make your NFT stronger, better,faster, so then when you compete in real life,
you're able to get more points.
Anyway, there's a whole ecosystem and so therewe're trying to create a healthier planet, So
again, that touches body, Fitcoin touches thebody pillar of our best self pillars and then
(31:19):
team fullness touches like the work and maybeeven the mind and the soul pillars there.
Yeah, no, that's helpful.
Yeah.
And I wanted to go back to marketing becausethis is something I'm passionate about.
So, know, obviously, you know, are essentially,you know, some of these are, one of these is
enterprise SaaS.
So what are some trends that you're seeing injust product growth?
(31:45):
Are you seeing B2B companies spend a lot ofmoney on social media, I guess what are just
some high level observations that you're seeingon how these companies are acquiring customers?
Right, I mean, there's it's really kind of thetraffic, then you know curating and making sure
(32:05):
the traffic is targeted to the right people.
And then if you're doing enterprise SaaS, youknow, there's definitely a sales rep or some
STR that's taking the call and moving it downthe funnel to close.
But you know any observations or wisdom thatyou want to share you know based on what you're
seeing with these founders right?
You're kind of sourcing and screening all thesedeals, these founders are coming to you with
(32:29):
trajectory, So what are kind of things thatyou're observing or red flags in terms of
growth?
And, you know, do you think they should bechanging?
Because I think you're at a unique standpoint,because you're building and scaling these
companies yourself in house.
So you have to kind of use very thoughtfulapproaches for growth.
(32:50):
Yeah, it's a great question and that's part oflike the whole synergies thing that I was
talking about before, So like what makes usmore valuable to our direct investments is that
we're gladiators on the field just like them.
We're going through the same tough aspects ofbuilding, recruiting, validating, failing,
(33:12):
getting frustrated, wanting to give up, having,know, hiring, retaining, building culture,
we're doing all those things, you know, inparallel for multiple ideas.
As VCs that's unique, most VCs are kind ofpicking the horse and then seeing if the horse
wins.
(33:33):
They're not out there training the horse,training the jockey and doing all those things
themselves.
So I think in that sense and then the viceversa is true as well and I'll answer your
question in a second but just to wrap up onthat synergy point, when we're you know as the
fact that we're VCs that helps us build betteras a studio because we're just more in tune
(33:58):
with what's happening in the markets, pricing,tax, we have relationships with other VCs and
all that, whereas some studios I've seen aresomewhat just in their own product or in their
own building.
To your question, based on that, really live inthe early stage.
Obviously later on, you're going to have a VPof sales, you're to have SDRs, AEs, that all
(34:22):
comes a little bit later than work pre seed andseed.
A lot of it is, what are the spear tactics foryou to initially get to and do the discovery
and validate and be able to first make surethis is an idea worth giving your next five to
ten years of your life to because I think mostpeople jump to that too quickly again because
(34:42):
of identity, they want to be a founder, theylike their idea, they're in love with their
solution and all that.
We don't, we try our best to follow ourobjective stage gate processes.
I think a lot of that is like having, we useevents like you, we're really good at doing
(35:03):
events and so building community, bringingpeople together.
We have our visionary circle, which is likevisionary corporate HR leaders that want to
hear about new and innovative offerings outthere.
I think like with a lot of products, it's justtrying to get to a customer that will hear you
(35:25):
out and will want to try it out when we'retalking about the very very very first stages.
When you're in that idea stage trying tovalidate it so we're building out our visionary
circle.
So yeah, we just try to put out amazing contentand events and community around that and then
(35:46):
letting the product then be able to easily sellthrough that.
That's kind of like the approach that we'vetaken.
Now there's nuances to every business on theWeb3, there's a whole different playbook for
Bitcoin you're launching a Web3 company.
You have your Twitter, you have your Discord,you want to drive up that engagement, want to
(36:09):
have a giveaway and so there's a differentplaybook there.
There's a little bit of a different playbookwhen you're doing a teamfulness and you're
giving people a trial and you want them to trya team meditation and facilitate that for them
so that they could have that magic moment.
I think there's some variety there but I thinka lot of it, I think we're big believers in
(36:35):
high value content and events that if you'rereally understanding the persona and serving
them and giving them something amazing, thenit's a lot easier and then running ads and
doing all that other stuff.
We're also really good with helping with theoutreach, the LinkedIn outreach.
So really figuring out who you're trying to goafter being able to find them and message to
(37:00):
them at scale to get your message out therebecause no matter what, you're gonna have to
talk to a bunch of new people to tell them whatyour value prop is to try to get them on the
phone, to try to do that discovery with andThat's the hard work.
I think for a lot of founders, they'd ratherjust go build the product, they'd rather just
go spend a year, a couple $100,000 and go buildit and have multiple versions and releases than
(37:25):
do the hard work of actually trying to like docold outreach and try to talk to brand new
people.
You know, that's not the right way to do it.
Yeah, what are some trends that you're seeingaround your pillars?
Like, let's talk about the future, right?
So, when it when it comes to mental health, itcomes to the soul or the spirit, what are some
(37:49):
exciting, things that you're seeing in thespace?
You know, because I'm sure you go to a lot ofthese industry events, know, obviously, you're
looking, you know, talking to hundreds andhundreds of companies.
So, anything that kind of sticks out out ofthose pillars that you're really excited about,
that's probably still early, but probably nottoo far away and you want to be one of the
(38:12):
people kind of jumping on that before it's tooovercrowded.
Yeah, I mean, if we start off with like mind,we know on the mind side, like just mental
health is a big deal, epic numbers and a numberof issues like anxiety, depression, all that.
I think the psychedelics present some reallyinteresting potential.
(38:37):
I like to start there because to me that's areally good example of an emerging technology
that helps with the best self, like we don'tcome at it from like, oh, we love psychedelics
and I know there's some psychedelics VCs andstuff like that.
Our point is whatever is going to help achievethis pillar.
I think brain computing interface is also goingto help from a mental and from a personal
(39:02):
growth when we can put the chip in and connectour mind to the cloud and all that.
I think those are a couple of interestingthings there.
Think from the money and career and I think Webthree point is providing an interesting new
elevation for humanity as its power to thepeople and I now own my own data.
(39:23):
I'm not being monetized and I could leveragethis to my advantage and I could do a lot of
new things.
We've made some investments there,decentralized finance, DeFi.
I think those are some of the ones that kind ofjump out at me that we've already made
(39:46):
investments.
There's a lot of work to be done at work andthe future of work and we were going through
the great resignation and now kind of the greatlayoffs and stuff are here and so there's just
a lot of help to get people into jobs that theywant to be at, that they could really thrive
(40:07):
at, that it fulfills their passions, is theirsuperpowers to give them training to get to the
next level and so that they could become theirbest self at work.
That was our original thesis was like the newfuture of work, which is that we spend most of
our waking hours at work, so let's help peoplereally crush that category.
(40:30):
I was talking to a Fortune 100 today abouttheir needs for the future of work and taking
care of their employees because recruiting andretention is so important.
Do you see people, you know, with the greatresignation?
Where have you seen them go?
Have you seen them just leave a job and justnever come back and do something on their own
(40:55):
and build something?
Or do you just see them taking some time off?
Or do just see them kind of hop in and go intoanother job?
And I guess how how do you think that's gonnachange in the next, you know, maybe one or two
years?
Because some people are still going back to theoffice but they don't have the pressure of
being there every day.
So, a lot of them are kind of a hybrid workscenario.
(41:18):
So, how do you think that's going to play tothe employees and then also to the to the
companies?
Like how do you think that's gonna impact thoseorganizations?
The last chapter we were in was the chapterwhere the great resignation was all about my
bar for what I expect from this company that Iwork at or any company is really high and
(41:42):
therefore if at any time any of my values areviolated, then I'm just gonna walk because I
know there's plenty of other options and sothen people were able to then go pursue other
options whether it was like try my hand at someentrepreneurial thing or go get another job,
take a couple months off and go get another jobafterwards.
(42:04):
The opportunities were endless and we're stillin a really good market.
Now it's going to be interesting because nowthere's all these layoffs happening as we're
entering a recession and
rescinded job offers too.
I've never seen that before you know evenduring the recession of two thousand and eight
(42:25):
I didn't hear about that as often like butthere's just a huge slew of people that are
getting offers and then they're gettingrescinded.
Yeah, so that might change employeesoptionality.
But I hope it doesn't change this wave thatwe've been on for the awakening and looking at
(42:49):
the job, not just as a paycheck and just beingat a job that you hate or that you're not a big
fan of the companies, work, your teammates, butyou're there because you need to pay the bills.
Take that extra time and like actually findsomething you're going to be more fulfilled
than life's too short.
(43:10):
I think like the concept of work has only beenaround for a couple hundred years in the
industrial age, the last hundred years so likeyou know before that we were just hunter
gatherers and we you know there wasn't thisidea so when it started it was very much go to
the factory, do this thing and clock in clockout get this money.
Now we're in the phase we're like wait why do Ihave to go there?
(43:32):
Why don't I why am I here on this planet?
And what is the point of my life?
And what do I want to get out of it?
Let me go somewhere where I could be the bestexpression of that.
Yeah.
And so I think that trend hopefully willcontinue but it'll be a little bit more
difficult for people because all of a suddenyou weren't expecting you got laid off and
(43:59):
you're gonna need to have some money to payrent next month or whatever.
Again, I think we entered a new chapter andit'll be interesting to see what happens.
Yeah, no, I agree.
And what are some of the sectors that you'remost excited about?
I know you're, you know, you focus on pre seed.
(44:21):
But, you know, along with the sectors, whatwhat do you think is a pattern of a good
founder?
Because you you know, obviously, you've been asuccessful entrepreneur, your father has too.
So what are some common trends that you'reseeing or threads that you're seeing in terms
of like evaluating founders and knowing thatthey're going to win?
Yeah, that's a great question.
(44:43):
Mean that's what it all boils down to right, isit's like it's the founder.
I think one of the things is just like aptitudedoesn't get talked about enough.
Think just the pure smarts to figure thingsout, the resourcefulness, of course the grit.
I think like the execution, one of the favoritelines that I heard that I use, I heard it from
(45:08):
another VC a couple years ago and has becomepretty central to how I evaluate things is it's
your delta in your personal growth from everytime I talk to you.
So if I talk to you today and then I talk toyou whether it's in a week or three weeks or
(45:29):
two months like not, I don't care how much yourbusiness grew but how much did you personally
grow and what I want to hear is what are allthe things you did and all the things that know
that what you learned, You might have had somewins and you probably had some losses but you
(45:49):
learned some things out of it but you gotsmarter.
I think that sometimes you talk to people andthey're stagnant or their rate of growth is
really slow, like the universe, you want afounder that's rapidly expanding and so that's
the biggest thing I look for.
Like when we ran our accelerator, when you havea cohort, it's a lot easier because you see,
(46:12):
you know, you could see from week to week who'sjust like listening and crushing and going far
over and above and then you could tell and youknow, so we had somebody that really stuck out
last year we're getting the opportunity and heraised 3,500,000.0 within two months of
graduating our program.
(46:33):
Came in, he was kind of like the earliest, themost was at the idea stage whereas others were
much further along and by the time hegraduated, he raised money and much more money
than any of them.
Raised 3,500,000.0 within two months and he'sraising money again and we're getting to invest
(46:53):
again.
So I think that's the biggest thing that I lookfor is especially if I'm gonna be working with
them closely and we're at the pre seed wherethere isn't as much of the company stuff is how
well are they listening and then how well didthey execute what we talked about and other
things that they learned from other people andhow much did they grow since the last time I
(47:14):
talked to them.
Yeah, no, that's good advice.
I think definitely like, you know, trackingwhat they're doing and then kind of having some
metrics around that as well.
I'm assuming is good too.
On the personal growth side, it's, it's less ofa data driven thing, but more of kind of a
progress, more qualitative assessment I'massuming right?
(47:37):
Yeah exactly yeah it's just what they'retelling you right it's like there's no data
it's just like oh yeah you know I tried this Iknow you said that and I tried that and what I
learned was this and I talked to this other guyand I contacted the VP at Twitter and then I
talked to 20 customers.
Wait, you talked to 20 customers in a week?
Yeah, well how'd you do that?
(47:57):
Well, I quickly ran this ad and then I likethis person just is high execution, high
resourceful, there's no hitting a wall, it'sjust this constant thing of like, okay, this
happened, now what do I do next, now what do Ido next?
They're just constantly running experimentsuntil they get to the next answer and they
could just figure it out if they can't dosomething themselves.
(48:18):
I went on Fiverr, I posted a job, I got thisvideo editor, he gave me the video, I posted it
here and then I took it to the mall and I tooka clipboard I talked about 35 people I quickly
learned this I came back I changed the website.
You know I mean like in the early stages, whenyou hear you know someone like that, like you
just like they're not scared Other foundersmight have been stuck at the first step until
(48:43):
you talk to them, they're waiting for thementoring call.
Like, oh, I tried that, it didn't work.
No man, you gotta go and you gotta go fast andyou gotta run through that wall.
So I mean, think those are some of the thingsthat I look for.
No, that's helpful.
Just switching gears here.
I love any advice that you have for emergingmanagers because now you're really going
(49:06):
through that journey.
Now you've learned a lot.
You've also definitely grown from last year tonow, And just so many different lessons.
So what are some learnings that you've learnedfrom raising the fund and just things that you
would like to pass on to somebody that's maybestarting on that journey?
Yeah, it's a great question.
(49:30):
Yeah, so I didn't have any fundraising trackrecord prior to this first fund that I raised.
Like I said, the business that I sold wasbootstrapped so this was all new to me and
it
was definitely a struggle.
Mean, it's hard, kind of like no track recordraising a fund in the pandemic know, so luckily
(49:58):
it's all gone well and now I'm looking to raise$25,000,000 fund too and now I'm thinking about
the challenges of that bigger hill to climb.
But I guess if I look back on this journey andbe reflective, which is interesting because I
haven't done that, I think that it's very clearthat the first thing that people invested in
(50:25):
was me, not necessarily the thesis and thespecifics of what's in the deck, was really
just liking me.
And I'm not saying that I'm special, but I justthink that the learning is that they're
investing in you, the emerging manager, thatthat they don't understand all the details.
They understand enough, but they're really justbetting on, hey, like, okay, Joel says he's
(50:49):
gonna go, you know, find the the best unicornsin NYC.
Okay, he's showing me a process, I trust him,he's gonna go do that or Joel's telling me he's
gonna create a fund of funds and invest in thebest emerging VCs from across the world.
Okay, you know like it, you know, so I thinkit's first like the the just like when we
(51:10):
invest in startups like first that founder so Ithink that that's pretty big.
I think it's normal to think that it's yourthesis and your deal flow and how you're going
to get deals and is it fintech, is it web threeand all that and I think all that matters but I
(51:30):
think it's first and foremost you.
That's like learning number one and thenlearning number two is just I think that I've
really understood now that the structure in thegame of when your angels and high net worths
come in early and those you're selling to anindividual and next are your family offices and
(51:54):
a little more structure but bigger checks andthen you have your fund of funds next and those
are bigger checks, more diligence, you need tohave more of a track record so at first, I was
just learning all that and I think it takes awhile to understand that landscape and
(52:15):
understand where to go and so I don't know ifthere's a way for you to make it.
I'm sure that's what you do is you make it easyfor them, you give them kind of a lay of the
land and tell them like start here and then gothere.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's tricky too because there's differentpeople coming in from different points, right?
(52:37):
So there's people that are on fun too and eventhough they have a track record, sometimes fun
too and even fun three is like a completelydifferent ballgame.
The personas that you were targeting before whowere like 100, you know, the the 68 angels that
you knew that all wrote, you know, 50 to 100 kchecks.
(53:00):
They're just too small to be in the next fund.
And you just, it's just not scalable for you,or it doesn't make sense to kind of just have
all those people come in with the small checks.
You're going to probably get more strategicpartnerships with, you know, larger, you know,
some institutional, but more, you know,strategic LPs that kind of are interested in
(53:22):
your sector that want to invest on number oneto back you because they believe in you.
But then there's also some perks that they getwhere they can co invest as well and get access
to those deals.
And, you know, when you do your communityevents, and when you do your accelerator
events, you know, they get access to that too.
They kind of building that platform approach,which is kind of what you're doing is, is
(53:44):
definitely a smart way to, to do it.
So any advice, I know you've done a coupleevents in the past, any advice on maybe
founders that are trying to host investorevents, and then also now like LP, you know,
GPs trying to do events for LPs, know, what aresome of the learnings that you learn maybe for
(54:05):
both?
Yeah, I think if you can kind of like figureout where your target market is and then
there's like let's say a conference alreadyhappening and then be able to kind of throw
your own party there.
Like in our case, we threw like a closing partyof one of the tribes that I'm part of that has
(54:28):
a lot of our LPs and that went off really welllike you know over a couple like almost a
couple 100 people attended and you know we'reable to meet some new investors through that.
I think like as there's live events figuringout like if there's a blockchain conference,
you go there and you might host some drinks ordo like a kind of an event inside an event kind
(54:52):
of a deal.
I think that's one way to do it as live eventsare coming back.
Maybe something similar on the virtual isgetting to but we also like to organize our own
events so again if you think about it and yousay what would my, you know, if you're a, I'm
(55:15):
just gonna make something up, if you're a, welllike in our case, right, so For example, for
teamfullness, If we're gonna want to raise frominvestors that would be aligned with the
teamfullness mission, Zoom, So it would makesense for us to do an event that would have
(55:38):
some kind of a theme to meditation andconsciousness and conscious capitalism and
something like that and then we could put on anevent that is teaching and bringing this
concept and then that would bring the rightpeople and at some point in that event we could
talk about the product and the opportunity toinvest in stuff like that.
(56:01):
So I think about what your persona is lookingfor, create a cool event that if you were one
of them, you would take an hour to attend andthen just make it really amazing and then
you'll get the opportunity to meet a bunch ofpeople and they'll get to know you.
You'll be doing them everything in contentmarketing and if you listen to all the
(56:22):
marketers, the successful ones, it's all aboutlike serve your persona, give them something
for free, like go over and above, just takecare of them and then at some point there'll be
an opportunity for you to tell them aboutwhatever you're trying to sell.
Yeah.
And
so we've taken that content marketing approachto heart and do that with our events as well.
(56:46):
Are some and this is the last question herebecause I know we're out of time, but what you
know when you say content marketing, what aresome pieces of content that you like to pair
together with different goals?
Like you know what do you you know do you useTwitter or Instagram for a certain thing versus
marketing on Facebook or newsletters I guessare there some channels that you've seen have
(57:10):
been kind of the best traction for startups?
Yeah, so like when we wanted to break throughwith Web three, we hosted a Web three vent, you
know, what is the web3 venture landscape andwhat are the investment opportunities and at
that time like we didn't think we're in aposition to put an event on like that but
(57:34):
that's the other nice thing about it is it's aforcing function.
Then as a team, we work together, we outlineit, we create the content, so in a way we end
up creating the most freshest objective contenton that topic and recent's too busy, they don't
care about putting on an event like that, theyalready have all the deal flow and all that but
(57:56):
there's a lot of people that are trying tolearn so now all of a sudden we had investors
attend our event, we had founders and startupsattend our event, we had corporates and stuff
like that, so that's like a good example wherewe took something that we wanted to get into,
we put together a high value event, we did itin a webinar format to answer your question and
(58:18):
then now we have that as an evergreen asset,people still watch that, people still get a ton
of value out.
Actually, had a spike in traffic when the wholecrypto crash happened because I think more
people just wanted to understand like what isthis, like what's happening here and so we've
had a spike in traffic to that asset.
(58:41):
Yeah, well all good insights.
Know, I really appreciated your story.
Super inspiring and happy to hear about all thesuccess that you've had and excited for the
future and and wanted to personally thank you.
And, you know, I'm glad that we've been able tobuild an awesome friendship.
So, you know, definitely big things ahead.
And, and yeah, thanks for everything, George,you know, thanks for coming on the show and,
(59:05):
and we'll keep in touch.
Yeah, likewise, Joel, thank you.
Thank you for having me as part of cohort fiveof your fund accelerator.
It's been a blast to be part of that.
What a great group you've put together andthanks for having me on today and I know a few
people were asking about some of the info.
(59:26):
We have our website is untapped.ventures andsome people were asking how to join the studio,
like how to work with the studio and that'sjust untapped.
Venturescapital.
But yeah, so I just wanted to answer some ofthe open questions that were out there.
But yeah, thanks Joel, thanks for having me andso it was a blast to just be able to kind of
(59:51):
know, no script, just kind of catch up and justchitchat.
Yep, absolutely.
And I got your link on the post as well, soI'll share that with everybody else also.
For everyone that wants to apply, yeah, onceagain, untapped.
Venturescapital.
Cool.
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