July 24, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode, Nicholas Ooi from Superseed Ventures delves into the venture studio model and his journey in the Australian startup ecosystem. He shares insights from his educational and consulting background that shape his venture capital approach. The discussion covers the evolution of Australia's startup scene, SuperSeed Ventures' investment thesis, and trends in the built environment sector. Nicholas also addresses labor market trends, workplace flexibility, and strategies for deal sourcing. He highlights the benefits of the venture studio model, evaluates early-stage founders, and offers career advice for aspiring venture capitalists, along with insights into SuperSeed's international investments and construction tech opportunities.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Yeah, I think it's a variety of factors, right?
(00:02):
And exactly what you mentioned, think, probablythe first reason is you're starting to see more
successful startups arise in Australia.
So back then there wasn't that many flagshipstartups that people could look to and say, Oh,
it's actually working in Australia.
And like I say, typically we're maybe like tenyears or so behind Silicon Valley and what you
guys are doing in The US.
(00:23):
So now that we're starting to see reallyemerging startups like Canva, Airwall X, some
of these unicorn companies coming out ofAustralia, it's really inspiring and it's
obviously inspiring to the next generation offounders and builders here in Australia to
continue to build.
And I think secondly is, as you mentioned,there's great incentives by government.
Obviously, there's still a lot of work to bedone, but there's been incentives by government
(00:45):
to really push and innovate tech in theAustralian ecosystem, whether it be funding or
also kind of support programs, etcetera.
So there's definitely a big push there.
Welcome to The Investor, a podcast where I,Joel Palafinkel, your host, dives deep into the
minds of the world's most influentialinstitutional investors.
(01:09):
In each episode, we sit down with an investorto hear about their journeys and how global
markets are driving capital allocation.
So join us on this journey as we explore theseinsights.
Here, And, we are live here with, Nicholas Luifrom SuperSea Ventures.
(01:31):
So Nicholas, thanks a lot for, for jumping onthe show.
It's been good chatting with you, you know, acouple weeks ago.
I'm glad I was able to get you on the phone andlive on the web show.
So excited to talk a little bit about venturecapital, your background, and you guys have a
unique model because you guys are also acorporate VC.
(01:54):
So would love to kinda hear how you guys havecollaborated with your stakeholders.
It sounds like you guys also have like aventure studio model as well scaling and and,
you know, building tech startups.
With the with the fund accelerator that I have,I've actually seen a few different models with
(02:14):
venture studios and and how they can reallytake a lot of ownership and and really have
control of the companies and also be superinvolved in their growth.
So excited to hear a little more aboutSuperSeed Ventures, your background, but maybe
we can kick it off and talk about your earlycareer and how you navigated into a career in
(02:38):
venture capital.
Because as we know, there really isn't a clearcut path.
There isn't a degree where you can just studyventure capital or private equity.
So tell us about where you started in yourjourney and how you broke into VC and then
maybe we can unpack the thesis and the strategyat Supersede.
(02:58):
Yeah, for sure.
Happy to do that.
Thanks for having me on the show, by the way.
This is great what you guys are doing here.
It's awesome to help people to try and get intoBC and then obviously uncover that a bit more.
Yeah, so my background is kind of, early wayback, I did a commerce and law degree at Unisw
here in Australia, so Sydney.
I'm based in Sydney, Australia.
(03:20):
Knew pretty early on I didn't want to be alawyer.
Tried a few kind of paralegal jobs, worked inthe industry for a bit, didn't really quite
enjoy it, but it was quite repetitive.
But what I really did know is I really lovebusiness.
I really love exploring business ideas,thinking about business models.
And then also during the time of university,was actually involved with an organization.
(03:42):
It's called Enactus.
It's not for profit organization, but it helpsEssentially, we were building and operating
social enterprise startups that wereessentially student run.
And that was kind of my first stint andexposure to the startup world.
And I fell in love with it.
It was amazing.
Got to build startups from the ground up and wewere students at the time, so we were just
(04:03):
trying to figure out what we're trying to do,right?
But that was kind of my first exposure to thestartup world.
And then kind of in my last year of uni, I gotlucky enough to attend this conference at
Stanford.
It's called the ASUS Summit.
Essentially, it was a week long conferencethere where we learned from a lot of founders
in the Silicon Valley space, VCs, operators,etcetera.
(04:23):
And again, that kind of solidified my view thatI wanted to work in this industry in the But
startup unfortunately, in Australia back then,so this has been back in 2017, the startup
ecosystem wasn't that developed as it is now.
There wasn't many pathways for people who werethinking about graduate jobs into the, for
(04:44):
example, VC or startup space.
And so I thought, I'll give managementconsulting a go for a couple of years.
I worked in management consulting for almostfour years, learnt a heck of a load, met some
amazing people as well.
And then more recently made the move to the VCat Super C Adventures.
So we've been working at the moment.
(05:05):
So getting close to that founder relationship,being able to work with founders directly, them
on the growth journey, and and obviously, yeah,really enjoying my time in the VC space at the
moment.
Yeah, and I'd say there's a lot of skills thatoverlap.
So being a consultant and then even having alaw degree, obviously there's complex terms
that you're navigating when you're negotiatingdeals.
(05:27):
Then I think with being a consultant, you'reanalytical.
I feel a lot of times when you do market sizingor when you're looking at the financials of a
company, I feel like those consulting skillscome back and then probably just basic problem
solving and critical thinking.
Would say that kind of ties back into some ofthose skills.
Because I'd say like every VC comes from like adifferent background and they kind of look at
(05:53):
those skills to kind of really compliment theirrole, I'd say, right?
Yeah, for sure.
And I think that's exactly right.
And it's a well trodden path.
There's been many consultants who've broken theVC, and obviously there's a reason why.
There's a lot of skillset overlap in terms ofwhat you mentioned just then around market
sizing, competitive analysis, thinking aboutmarkets and the trends in that market.
(06:14):
So there's a lot of overlap in terms of the BCskill set there, which obviously I found very
valuable having just started.
Yeah, definitely agree with what you said.
And tell us a little bit about the Australianecosystem.
So you said that it's kind of evolved in thelast few years.
What do you think has triggered that?
Has it just been a lot of people just movingthere for startup ecosystems?
(06:38):
Has there just been a lot more investmentdollars coming in?
Has there been government support to kind ofsupport innovation as well?
What do you think are some of the drivers forthat recent development?
Yeah, I think it's a variety of factors, right?
And exactly what you mentioned.
I think probably the first reason is you'restarting to see more successful startups arise
(06:58):
in Australia.
So back then there wasn't that many flagshipstartups that people could look to and say, Oh,
it's actually working in Australia.
And I can say typically we're maybe like tenyears or so behind Silicon Valley and what you
guys are doing in The US.
So, now that we're starting to see reallyemerging startups like Canva, Airwall X, some
(07:19):
of these unicorn companies coming out ofAustralia, it's really inspiring and it's
obviously inspiring to the next generation offounders and builders here in Australia to
continue to build.
And I think secondly is, as you mentioned,there's great incentives by government.
Obviously, still a lot of work to be done, butthere's been incentive by government to really
push and innovate tech in the Australianecosystem, whether it be funding or also kind
(07:42):
of support programs, etcetera.
So, there's definitely a big push there.
And what are some of the bigger industries thatyou're seeing?
Is it a lot of FinTech or I know that Australiawas also developing some technologies for
quantum computing.
They were like one of the unique centers foractually having stable platforms for quantum.
(08:04):
So I know that's been a huge breakthrough thatI've been reading about.
But what are some of the hot industries likeobviously I'm in New York, So fintech is a big
thing.
And then you know we I see a few patterns.
But what are some of the patterns that you'reseeing kind of in that area compared to like
the related regions?
(08:24):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, can't comment on the rest of the globe.
Obviously, we've been seeing all of that, but Ithink in Australia, I think it's pretty typical
among what we see in other countries as well.
So as you mentioned, FinTech's pretty big.
It's reflective generally of the industriesthat are big in Australia.
So FinTech is big.
Health tech is actually emerging as well.
There's a of health tech startups in Australiaare arising like Eucalyptus, not sure we heard
(08:47):
of that one, but it's growing.
It's a kind of series C now stage, is great.
And then I would say probably the typical SaaSis always big, B2B SaaS, those verticals,
marketplaces, they're always gonna be around.
So, those are growing as well.
And I would say, from my perspective atSupersede, we're looking at kind of the built
(09:07):
environment space, so the construction,property supply chain tech space.
And I think that's a pretty underserved marketgenerally, globally.
But I think we're starting to see more in thekind of Australia ANZ region, a lot more of
these companies emerging, which is greatobviously for the ecosystem considering this
(09:28):
industry is pretty underdeveloped in terms oftech adoption and overall.
So that's also great to see as well.
Yeah, and maybe you can, that's a good point tomaybe unpack Supersede's thesis and their
strategy, and maybe you can give us a littlebit of history on the firm and kind of some of
the things that you guys are looking for in thefounders.
(09:50):
Yeah, for sure.
So, as you mentioned, Supersede Ventures is acorporate venture capital fund.
So, we are backed by the Group.
So, Rees Group is Australia's largestdistributor or supplier of plumbing, HVAC and
waterworks products.
So if you imagine everything in your kitchens,your bathrooms, like the pipes, the toilets,
(10:13):
the faucets, the sinks, everything like that,Reis would supply all that.
And our thesis at SuperSeed is really to investin early stage startups, so kind of seed to
series A, which are aiming to improve the waythat trades people, I think you call it general
contracts in The US or North America, Yeah.
And then also trade suppliers.
So, for example, Reiss and the like, improvethe way they work in the future.
(10:37):
So whether that be through new revenue streamsfor the suppliers, but also any sort of
productivity tools or, it could be financing oreven educational resources for the trades
people as well for them to work better, Iguess, and grow their business.
Yeah.
What are some trends that you're seeing in theBILT world?
We had Suffolk Technologies, I think I told youabout Diana a while back.
(11:01):
So they're a $5,000,000,000 land developer.
So they have a corporate VC too.
So they've been talking a lot about just thefuture of construction robotics kind of
building structures.
And I think what's really interesting is theinternet of things kind of providing data in
(11:21):
real time to people that are monitoring thebuilding.
So any kind of high level trends or things thatyou're excited about in the future when it
comes to the built world that kind of aligns toyour thesis?
Yeah, for sure.
I can probably comment more so specifically totradespeople problems and what they've been
experiencing because obviously that's where ourmandate focuses on.
(11:42):
Yeah.
I'll probably say the first that is prettyevident so far is access to financing.
So if you imagine tradespeople, they run verysmall businesses, so like your builders, your,
I don't know, plumbers, for example.
They run very small businesses.
It could be either sole trader or maybebusinesses that are one to five people and they
need access to financing, right?
(12:03):
To get, for example, equipment financing orasset financing.
And typically these people typically find it ahard time to obtain loans from traditional
banks given their credit scores and justtypical small revenue cash flow coming in.
(12:23):
So, there's a real need for cash flow at thissmaller customer segment.
And we're starting to see now a lot morestartups that are targeting or addressing
problems actually, and solving solutions tothis problem, whether that be through flexible
financing options for these smaller customerbase, or could be easier ways to purchase
(12:45):
supplies or products from trade suppliers aswell.
And I think there's a few in The US I thinkthat I've seen over the past couple of months,
but that's been emerging over there.
So I think that's probably the first trend.
The second is, I'll probably say an easier wayfor trade suppliers to kind of work directly
with their customers, whether that be throughimproved communication platforms.
(13:08):
So typically if they want to purchase things,customers will have to input a purchase order,
go through formal procedures and then go forplatforms.
But if there's an easier way to streamline thecommunication process and the purchasing
process for customers to trade suppliers,that's also an area that a lot of startups are
trying to solve as well.
And I'll say the third part is probably more soa broader trend in the prop tech or
(13:33):
construction tech space is that shift towardskind of home renovation marketplace platforms.
So I think there's a heap of a load in The USright now addressing this space, but it's
essentially helping homeowners who want torenovate their homes easily do that through a
marketplace platform where they can be linkedup to general contractors, subcontractors,
(13:56):
etcetera, and easily streamline thecommunication process, streamline the payments
process, streamline the whole design process aswell.
And that's great to see.
I think one comment I would make here is thatit's a very underserved market in Australia and
New Zealand.
I haven't yet to see an emerging or big playerin this space.
(14:16):
It's probably because maybe Australia is justlacking and maybe a couple of years behind,
right?
It's definitely a space that I can see will bevery big potentially in Australia, given that
it's now shifting towards that millennialmarket who are entering the property market who
want to purchase their first homes.
And typically these millennials don't want totypically do it themselves.
(14:40):
They don't want to renovate So they're reallyleaning on third parties to help them do this.
And I think that's where this space or thesesolutions can really play a big part.
Yeah, because in The US they have a couple ofthose platforms, have Handy and a couple of
other ones, think it's Handy and guys help meout, I forgot the other one.
Block renovation, maid And
(15:02):
then Thumbtack is another one that I've used inthe past.
Are you saying more for like painting the wallsand installing like IKEA furniture?
Is this actual like real contractor work thatis being democratized?
So if you want to redo your bathroom prettymuch.
Yeah, exactly.
So I think it's a full home renovationexperience, right?
(15:23):
Not just your home service providers like yourpainters, etcetera.
Of course, that's been around for a while, butit's actually the full home renovation where
you can add a technology layer on that designprocess earlier on.
So if you wanna I wanna I wanna make mybathroom exactly like this.
Mhmm.
And then, you know, it's all all on a software.
Mhmm.
I think that's where the trend is movingtowards.
(15:44):
Kind
of like augmented reality where you can kind ofsee how the new cabinet would look pretty much.
You see some innovation and software there.
Know IKEA was kind of doing some of that withtheir cabinets and stuff.
Played around that we were actually going putin a new cabinet and you can actually take a
(16:05):
photo of your wall and then put it there andsee what it looks like.
But I think having even a designer come in likethree d and kind of have them remodel your
home, I think is really cool.
And I think what are your thoughts on the macrotrends impacting the cost of labor?
Because I feel like a lot of times too, cost oflabor is going up as well.
(16:28):
So it's going to be much more expensive to getpeople to do that work.
And I feel that people will still be willing topay that cost because they just don't want to
do it.
There's less and less people that want to dothe manual labor and they want to get more into
Most of the workers now are knowledge workers.
So do you see the price of that increasingbecause it being a less desirable job that
(16:53):
people want to do?
Yeah, so I think that's definitely There's alot of macro factors playing a part here and
cost of labor is definitely one of them.
I can say that for some of these startups inthis space that I've been seeing is that a
strong focus on, for example, if it's amarketplace platform, a strong focus on
procuring the supply side, which is essentiallythe general contractors, the contractors,
(17:17):
subcontracts, etcetera, a big focus for them,given that there is just a shortage, right,
generally, because there's just not First ofall, there's not many around and there's a huge
demand for it now because people are There'sjust a shift towards renovating homes rather
than perhaps purchasing new homes because of,say, rising property prices, etcetera.
(17:37):
That's obviously a big issue.
But yeah, you're right, there's definitely aproblem in terms of Well, there could be
problems with greater cost of labor and some ofthese startups will have to address that and
that's definitely something on their minds,right?
Yeah, we just had a two hour lecture today.
I was actually chatting with some studentstoday about just macro effects of real estate
(18:01):
and what we're seeing in The US is just lack ofinventory.
So there's large private equity firms buying uphundreds and hundreds of multifamily
residences.
And some of them, I feel, may not come backonto the because there's just people buying
that inventory up.
(18:22):
There's a lack of inventory.
So I think rental prices are going up as well.
So I don't know.
I would love to learn a little more about justthe general rental or real estate market in
Australia.
Is it very similar?
Are you guys also seeing higher interest ratesand is that impacting the price or the cost or
(18:44):
anything else, I guess?
Or maybe it's just The US?
Oh, no, I think it's definitely reflected herein Australia as well.
Property prices have been significantly risingover the past five years.
I think Australia is actually in the top fiveof the most expensive places to live, I think
globally.
And that's reflective of, yeah, for example,the rising property prices.
(19:05):
As you mentioned, interest rates are rising aswell.
And that's obviously making it perhaps less interms of you don't want to actually borrow
money, for example.
And all these macro factors entirely actually,yeah, it just make it difficult overall for
people to maybe think about purchasing a homeand people are shifting towards more of that
(19:27):
rental model now, especially for youngergenerations where they're, say, millennials or
people just entering the workforce.
And I think there's What I've seen is there's alot of these Perhaps in this prop tech space,
more of these rent to buy models appearing.
And I think that's definitely evident in TheUS, but in Australia, it's only just That
(19:48):
adoption has only just become.
And I think there is definitely a trend towardsan adoption of that sort of model given the
macro conditions in the market.
That's just my overall comment to me.
Yeah, I mean, look, I've met a few VCs thathave been digital nomads.
So there's a woman that I know, her and herhusband, she's running the fund and her husband
(20:10):
can work remotely.
So they were traveling pretty much all overLatin America.
So that was really interesting to be able tosee that.
Airbnb is allowed to do that.
So are you seeing the digital nomad culturestill thriving?
Are you seeing that start to trickle down alittle bit now because there's people moving to
(20:31):
a hybrid work environment and people are comingback to work?
So just talking about the pandemic and just howpeople are working, what are some trends that
you're seeing with that?
Because I'm assuming that also impacts probablycommercial real estate as well, right?
Yeah, for sure.
I can probably say that, obviously because ofCOVID, there's been a shift towards more work
(20:53):
from home and remote work.
It's become more acceptable.
I know some people who've been Well, forexample, myself, I'm actually fully remote,
working fully remote at the moment.
So that's the one example of perhaps maybe a nobad, but I don't know many that are, traveling
around Australia and working.
It's probably a bit of a less of a case, but Ithink there's definitely a trend towards that
(21:14):
hybrid model.
Like a lot of large organisations, evenstartups actually, are encouraging that hybrid
model and perhaps more so for the early stagestartups, they're actually okay with fully
remote work.
And it's working, right?
People are seeing that people can still beeffective working remote.
Depending on what their role is, obviously yougotta balance that with culture, obviously,
(21:38):
especially at the early stage.
But if they're effective, then why not?
It's working.
But I probably say the bias is still towards ahybrid model rather than a shift towards fully
remote.
That's probably a bit of an extent.
People still do value being in the office,collaborating with workmates, etcetera.
Yeah, and I mean, there's been companies likeAirbnb that have been super flexible and I feel
(22:00):
that's gonna impact retention as well.
I think with the whole great resignation, thatwas a huge thing in The US, especially being in
New York.
There were people that just were reallyunhappy.
And I feel that the pandemic really stimulatedthat.
So they were just kind of like, look, I canprobably take a few months off and figure out
(22:22):
something else and reset.
So I feel like a lot of people did resign andgo to other places that were much more
accommodating.
So I feel like we did reach a shift where theworker did have some leverage to make sure that
they had a safe environment that's flexible,where they can also still have balance with
(22:46):
their personal life as well.
So I feel like the companies that are able tobe more flexible are able to retain, they have
an edge as far as retaining talent.
I forgot the blog, but there was a venturefund, I think called Footwork.
And they wrote a really interesting article.
I don't know if you read that one, but it wasabout the employee actually having a lot of
leverage now these days when it comes to beingpart of a high growth startup.
(23:11):
Definitely.
Well, maybe we can see if there's any questionshere.
So anyone in the audience feel free to pingsome questions.
Maybe for the audience, for education purposes,you can maybe walk us through a little bit of
your framework in terms of how you're sourcingand screening deals and any advice you'd have
(23:32):
for someone that's new to venture in terms ofselection criteria and what you look for in
founders.
Yeah, I mean, there's a broad range of factorsobviously when you're assessing a startup.
If I can kind of distill that to maybe four keyareas.
First being obviously So just for context,Super C Adventures, we're early stage fund, so
(23:56):
in that seed stage.
So number one, team is very important for us.
Really understanding the founders' backgrounds,how closely connected they are with the
problem.
Do they have the domain expertise?
Do they have some sort of insight that can givethem an advantage over others?
I think that's very key.
We obviously look for that in our meetings withthem, assessing them over time.
(24:17):
And usually we like to build a longrelationship with founders, not just kind of
and then invest in like two or three weeks.
I mean, of course, that's obviously given if wehave to be competitive, of course, that's the
case as well.
But typically we would prefer to develop thatrelationship over time.
And I think that's what a good VC does is buildthat relationship early and support them and
(24:37):
see how they're going, right?
And the second thing is probably aroundproducts.
Product is pretty big for us, understanding howis it differentiated versus others and really
how defensible is their business, right?
Like this, there's always going to becompetitors around, there's always going to be
other incumbents and other emerging startups inthis space, but it's really how defensible can
(25:00):
their product be versus their competitors.
And it really is down to what sort of insightdo they have, what's their edge around the
product, do customers really love the product,is it sticky enough, etcetera.
And it probably leads to my third point aroundtraction.
Obviously, at an early stage, revenue may notbe existing yet, that's fine.
(25:23):
Really having some sort of traction where itcould be, for example, user growth, engagement
metrics, active users, for example, that's agood indication typically of how well the
product is doing how much the It's actually anidentification of product market fit, right?
Is very important in that early stage, right?
And some startups in that early stage may nothave had or evidence of product market fit yet.
(25:48):
So that's a pretty good indication of that.
The fourth is probably the random market,right?
And this is more so because we are Supercede isa very industry focused fund.
We do a lot of research in the markets and weknow which of the emerging areas that we like
to focus on.
So I would say, understanding the emergingtrends there.
(26:13):
Obviously market sizing is important as well,and not the be your end all.
And obviously what's coming up in this space,right?
And I think I would say on top of that, becausewe are a corporate VC fund, having a strategic
element and how relevant is it to RISE is, Iwould say, probably the first filtering process
(26:34):
really.
I think for any sort of strategically focusedCVC funds, that's always going to be the case,
I think.
Yeah, I know.
It's a good point.
I mean, CVCs are looking for a strategic fit.
So something that can, I'm assuming there's acouple of factors, right?
So increasing the shareholder value ofcorporation, and then also providing some new
(27:00):
revenue channels to enhance the business.
I think that's, another big piece that I alwayssee is just providing just general cost savings
to the company.
So if you're paying like $20,000 for billing,and then you invest in a company that's able to
bring that down to like 10%.
Right.
And you can do that for do the same level ofwork for a fraction of the cost.
(27:24):
And there's actual cost savings and valuethat's created.
And then if that company also does have a largeexit, then you get some financial return too,
right?
And I guess that's probably something thatyou're balancing, right?
Strategic versus financial return.
But if you can
do both, that's always great.
Yeah.
(27:44):
And I will say on that is that, I think there'stwo extremes of CVCs is obviously that what you
mentioned is very strategically focused, andthen the other end is probably that financial
focus.
Super seed sits in that more strategic focusedside.
But obviously having said that, financialreturns are still important because we still
are VC fund, we still want to return to Reiss.
(28:09):
But as you mentioned, having that strategicelement is important because do Rice has the
networks, we have the customer base, we've gotthe industry expertise, and we can really help
our portfolio scale through those networks andconnections.
I would say that's an advantage for some of thestartups that we invest in versus maybe some
more generic kind of industry agnostic funds.
(28:33):
Yeah, it looks like Alice, you had a questionabout LATAM?
Yeah, I just wanted to ask what role does US orLATAM plays in Supersea?
Yeah, so actually, probably should havementioned that earlier.
So even though we are based in Australia, we doinvest in North America as well.
(28:55):
So that's US and Canada.
And the reason for that is Reese has asubsidiary which they acquired back in 2018,
Morseco, and that's why we like to invest inthat early stage in North America as well,
because we have a presence there.
Sure.
Yeah, North America and ANZ.
Those are the three markets we typically investin.
(29:16):
Is the name again of your North America arm?
Yeah.
So it was called Morseco, m o r s c o.
But it was acquired back in 2018.
It's actually now under the ReStore Groupumbrella.
So I think it should be branded as ReStore.
Cool.
Yep.
(29:39):
I can probably touch on the sorry, Joel, on thethat you mentioned the the Venture Studio side
of our business as
that's a good thing.
Yeah, I forgot to bring that up.
So that's a good thing to touch on.
Which I can talk to.
I mean, I'm in the investment team in the VCside of things, so probably less so involved
with the venture studio side.
But yeah, as you mentioned, we do have aventure studio team who is essentially building
(30:02):
new ventures from the ground up.
And that's usually kind of fed through from theproblems that we see in the market as an
investment team.
And it's kind of like a synergisticpartnership, right?
Because we see problems and we can bring inpeople who are close to the problem, whether it
be founders or the like, and then reallyconnect them to race and help build new
(30:28):
solutions to these problems.
Yeah, that's my understanding of the team andthey've built a few ventures so far and it's
going well.
Yeah, and for the audience too, I've actuallybeen chatting with a few venture studios.
So sometimes there's benefits because typicallyas a VC, you're getting less of an ownership
(30:49):
position, even if you're leading the deal,you're not gonna have a large massive
percentage ownership in the company.
But from what I've heard with Venture Studios,because you're incubating and building the
entire technology in house, you do have alarger stake on the cap table.
That a trend that you're seeing as well ingeneral?
(31:11):
Doesn't have to be about supersede, but just inventure studios as a whole, because they're
building and I guess obviously taking on alittle more risk, pretty much operating the
company.
Do you see them having much more ownership thanlike a typical VC?
Yeah, I probably can't comment on that too muchgiven I'm not exposed directly to the venture
(31:31):
studio side of things.
And I think what I would say is that inAustralia, we're not as developed this model.
There's starting to be more of these venturestudios arising in, say, larger corporations.
Like for example, your BCG, Digital Ventures,there's other large organisations which have
their own venture studio side as well, but Iwould say it's not as developed and it's still
(31:53):
a model that that Australia, or I guess peoplein Australia are still trying to figure out if
there is value to say corporations and thelike.
So I can't really comment on the ownershiptarget per se, but I would assume that's
correct.
They're taking on more risk building new thingswithin the organization context.
I think that's probably could correct.
(32:15):
And in general terms, what are some of the teammembers that you need to have in a venture
studio?
Is it, I'm assuming probably like a productmanager and developers and probably UX
designers?
Is it almost like a pretty much like an inhouse product team?
Do they just hire staff to keep building theseventures?
(32:36):
Yeah, yeah.
I think you're right.
Given that you're building something fromliterally zero, you do need that expertise of
people who have experience building things.
So for example, on the product side, productdesign, developers, product managers, more of
that product focus because you're buildingsomething that is yet to exist really.
(32:57):
And probably less so on strategy, per se.
But as the venture scales, I'm sure they canhire more people that are more relevant to
other areas, right?
For example, the operations side, etcetera.
But yeah, at that early stage, just reallyfocused those roles.
Yeah, no, that's really helpful.
What are some red flags when you're evaluatingearly stage founders that you often see?
(33:23):
Guess, if you're trying to give some advice toa new VC, what are some things that they should
look for?
Maybe I'll give one example.
It's like sometimes when I hear that there's nocompetitors, another one is, I think one big
one that I see is doing what you say you'regonna do.
(33:45):
So if you say you're going to have your beta intwo weeks and then you don't hear from them for
a long time and there's no beta, it's just awatch point.
But I don't know if you have any advice forsome of these emerging fund managers to think
about that as they're talking to founders andevaluating them or evaluating the company.
(34:09):
Yeah, for sure.
I would say as a founder or someone building acompany, would say having a strong
understanding of your business inside out,whether that be really understanding your unit
economics, for example, and being able tocommunicate that clearly to investors is key.
We've seen people in the past who don't reallyhave a good understanding of unit economics,
(34:32):
that's pretty critical for investors because wewant to see that your business on scale at a
good margin, right?
And unit economics are healthy.
So I think it's probably number one.
And number two is And this isn't to do afounder thing, but it's more so are the
founders generally excited about the problemthat they're building?
And we typically tell, right, if you're notthat genuine and And you can kind of evaluate
(34:57):
that by asking a series of questions aroundtheir background and what's really motivating
them in general as a person.
And then you can kind of apply that to a VClens and how they're trying to solve the
problem that they're building towards.
And then I would say the third thing isprobably around, do your homework around the
market.
And as you mentioned, yeah, there's alwaysgoing be competitors.
(35:17):
If they're saying there's no competitors, theydo like a two by two and there's great vendors,
that's pretty big red flag.
I would also say that have an understanding ofmarket Market sizing isn't a be or end, or as I
said, but you still need to have a view as tomarket sizing and how you got to that number.
Whether that be a bottom up approach.
(35:38):
And that's preferable, right?
Bottom up is preferable, but if you can't, thentop down is fine as well.
But really having a good understanding of thatand how you see that market changing growing
over time is key.
Because obviously as VCs, we look for largegrowing markets and if the market is smaller,
then it's probably a no from us.
(35:59):
That's pretty key.
It's not a venture backed up business.
Yeah, no, I totally agree.
And I feel with some of the pullback, I feelthere's a lot of companies that are early stage
that are building their business in a much morelean way.
So they're much more capital efficient.
(36:21):
So sometimes I look at the capital efficiencyof the business and that's a good signal too
that they can withstand their burn rate andtheir run rate for much longer than a frothy
environment.
Some of the people that raise too much money orspend too much money, I think the
(36:42):
sustainability is going to be a really hugerisk
in
the next probably eighteen months.
Yeah, for sure.
I think definitely this environment, it's afront of mind for every sort of early stage
founder is extending runway, being very lean inoperations and really cutting down on
unnecessary costs.
Yeah, for sure.
I think it's definitely something that And thatgoes to play with the valuation as well, right?
(37:04):
People are raising at much lower valuations.
Well, I assume in The US that's probably thesame, but that's probably Yeah, over the next
couple of years, we'll see how that plays out.
And are you guys looking at consumer tech aswell and B2B SaaS, or is it mainly B2B SaaS?
Yeah, so I'll say our previous investments havetypically been B2B SaaS, but that's not to
(37:28):
preclude B2C.
Yeah.
But I'd say typically it's harder for B2C inthis environment and also for construction tech
in general, because there has to be reallystrong adoption of consumers wanting to use And
the I would say for trades people in general,they're typically not that tech savvy, if that
makes sense.
(37:50):
It really has to be an intuitive product thatis very easy to use and that has strong
adoption, whether that be viral marketing orsome sort of factor that can help it be adopted
and being used.
So yeah, I'd say B2B is Yeah, it's been astrong focus for a while in this industry, I
think.
But yeah, perhaps maybe in the future there'llbe a more B2C focused infrastructure.
(38:11):
Yeah.
There's also the concept of B2B to B2C, right?
So you have a big construction firm who's yourenterprise client.
That company has like a dashboard, but then toyour point, maybe the construction workers get
like a mobile app to kind of monitor something.
So I don't know if you see that as also anemerging trend where there's different types of
(38:36):
users, where they get different types ofscreens.
We see this with LinkedIn, right?
So when you go to linkedin.com, there's onlyone LinkedIn, but the customers are marketers
that are trying to marketing on LinkedIn.
There's job seekers, there's job, there'speople who are posting jobs.
So I wonder if that's also a trend too in theconstruction tech space where there's just
(39:02):
different users and sometimes the constructionor the the trades people, they they can't look
at like a complex dashboard.
They just want to like open up an app whereit's kind of like Uber.
You just press one button and you can kind ofachieve what you want to do.
So that's pretty interesting too.
Yeah, think for sure.
And I think that's actually a lot about, in asense you say B2B, but then a lot of our
(39:26):
portfolio is actually B2B2C as well.
And I would say that because the structure oftrades people is that small trades businesses,
they still hire maybe one to five employees.
So it typically still is a B2B2C in
a
sense.
As you mentioned, construction companies andlarge trade suppliers even have their own
(39:49):
customers.
So that in itself is a B2B2C model.
So yeah, it's certainly an area.
Yeah, because you talk about FinTech too, and Icome from a FinTech background and I was
working on some wealth management software andwhen you think about it like you're a financial
advisor, you're kind of like going into aterminal, right?
And you wanna kind of see like your advisorview, but if you're a client, you just wanna
(40:14):
see something really slick.
It's like, hey, you know what, I bought someinsurance products, I bought some investments
and here's a really cool thing I can do with myfinger and I can see my assets change colors or
can pinch and zoom on the graph.
So I think that's really, really interesting,like when it comes to design.
And that's probably where the venture studiocomes into because they really need to think
(40:37):
through like who the user is when they enterthe screen.
What are they trying to do?
Are they trying to on a and then it's likedifferent on phone versus desktop, right?
So it's definitely the form factor like thedigital experience changes.
So it's really interesting to see how peoplethink through that.
So
yeah, for sure.
(40:57):
Yeah.
Cool.
Well, we got fifteen minutes.
Anybody else has any questions, shout it out.
I always ask one final question as we wrap up.
One of the questions I always ask is if youhave any wisdom or things you wanna share for
maybe like a mentor, if there's like a mentorthat helped you with your career or maybe it's
a colleague of yours that you've learned fromany professional life lessons you wanna share
(41:23):
with us we wrap up?
Yeah, I mean, this is probably more so acareer, maybe personal sort of advice, I know
some of your audience is trying to break intoVC and other maybe amazing roles, but I'd say
be okay with failure and rejection.
(41:44):
People think it's the end of the world if youapply to five and you don't get in kind of
thing.
It's like the end of the world.
But really, it's a really hard industry to getinto.
You have to be gritty, you gotta be persistent.
You really are passionate about an industry orjob that you want to work in, then you gotta
keep on it.
And I think that just goes to life as well,right?
(42:06):
In anything, any sort of pursuit you want todo, you gotta just be resilient and you can't
give up.
So yeah, that's probably something that comesto mind.
Cool.
And then it looks like there was two questionshere.
What was the most exciting venture?
So I guess whatever you're allowed to share, ifthere's something like an exciting startup that
you looked at, and then somebody is wonderingif you're hiring too.
(42:31):
Yeah, Shock, I can probably comment on our morerecent investments early this year.
It's in Bluon.
So Blu On's based in The US, I think theycompleted a Series B early this year, but
essentially they're a support platform for HVACservice technicians.
So if you imagine your HVAC techniciansinstalling things in commercial buildings,
(42:52):
residential buildings, etcetera, they usuallyIf they're installing a certain model of a HVAC
product, typically they need a manual tounderstand how to install it.
That might not be on hand all the time.
So what BlueOne has done is they've reallyimported all the manuals from a whole range of
different HVAC models onto an easy use appwhere they can really cross reference every
(43:16):
single part down to the individual bolt andreally know to install those models.
And what they're shifting towards now, and thenactually it's soon to be launched, is an e
commerce platform for service technicians toactually purchase products from trade
suppliers, like RACE, for example, which isreally exciting, right?
(43:37):
And I think they've got over 150,000, I thinkmaybe close to 150,000 users on board at the
moment, which I think is close to two thirds ofThe US market.
It's pretty And amazing yeah, they're growingincredibly strong.
They're expanding nationally as well.
So yeah, that's a really exciting Probably oneof our key flagship investments that we made
(43:59):
recently.
That's great.
And on the hiring in The US comment, I thinkprobably I can't comment on that at the moment,
but it's probably not so at the moment, but whoknows?
Let us know.
Maybe in the future we will.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And I think advice that I've always receivedfrom people is a great way, even if you're not
(44:21):
hiring, is to just showcase really cool dealflow.
So you guys are focused on the built world andprop tech and a lot of those innovations that
you're looking at.
I would say bubbling up really interestingdeals that they know would excite you.
(44:43):
I think that's a great way to start thediscussion and build a relationship.
That's always been some conventional wisdomthat I've seen.
Yeah, for sure.
I think and for people wanting to break intoVC, I think that's a really good exercise to
do.
You might kind of build your own paperportfolio of startups that you would ideally
invest in, and you can do your own researchreally.
(45:04):
I think VCs will be impressed when you applyfor them and you have that portfolio on paper
that you would invest in, you can actually giveyour own investment thesis as to why you would
invest in those startups.
I think that's a great way to show initiativethat you're really doing the job without having
the job already.
So it's a good exercise, I think.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
(45:24):
That was helpful for me too when I was gettingstarted.
Hey, Nicholas, I know you're super busy, sothanks so much for coming We all learned a lot,
so appreciate it and hope to I've never been toAustralia, so hopefully one day when I make it
out there, we can hang out.
If you come out here, let me know.
Yeah, for sure.
Happy do that.
And thanks for having on the show.
(45:45):
Yeah, thanks a lot, Nick.
Have a good Take care.
Yeah, I think it's a variety of factors, right?
(00:02):
And exactly what you mentioned, think, probablythe first reason is you're starting to see more
successful startups arise in Australia.
So back then there wasn't that many flagshipstartups that people could look to and say, Oh,
it's actually working in Australia.
And like I say, typically we're maybe like tenyears or so behind Silicon Valley and what you
guys are doing in The US.
(00:23):
So now that we're starting to see reallyemerging startups like Canva, Airwall X, some
of these unicorn companies coming out ofAustralia, it's really inspiring and it's
obviously inspiring to the next generation offounders and builders here in Australia to
continue to build.
And I think secondly is, as you mentioned,there's great incentives by government.
Obviously, there's still a lot of work to bedone, but there's been incentives by government
(00:45):
to really push and innovate tech in theAustralian ecosystem, whether it be funding or
also kind of support programs, etcetera.
So there's definitely a big push there.
Welcome to The Investor, a podcast where I,Joel Palafinkel, your host, dives deep into the
minds of the world's most influentialinstitutional investors.
(01:09):
In each episode, we sit down with an investorto hear about their journeys and how global
markets are driving capital allocation.
So join us on this journey as we explore theseinsights.
Here, And, we are live here with, Nicholas Luifrom SuperSea Ventures.
(01:31):
So Nicholas, thanks a lot for, for jumping onthe show.
It's been good chatting with you, you know, acouple weeks ago.
I'm glad I was able to get you on the phone andlive on the web show.
So excited to talk a little bit about venturecapital, your background, and you guys have a
unique model because you guys are also acorporate VC.
(01:54):
So would love to kinda hear how you guys havecollaborated with your stakeholders.
It sounds like you guys also have like aventure studio model as well scaling and and,
you know, building tech startups.
With the with the fund accelerator that I have,I've actually seen a few different models with
(02:14):
venture studios and and how they can reallytake a lot of ownership and and really have
control of the companies and also be superinvolved in their growth.
So excited to hear a little more aboutSuperSeed Ventures, your background, but maybe
we can kick it off and talk about your earlycareer and how you navigated into a career in
(02:38):
venture capital.
Because as we know, there really isn't a clearcut path.
There isn't a degree where you can just studyventure capital or private equity.
So tell us about where you started in yourjourney and how you broke into VC and then
maybe we can unpack the thesis and the strategyat Supersede.
(02:58):
Yeah, for sure.
Happy to do that.
Thanks for having me on the show, by the way.
This is great what you guys are doing here.
It's awesome to help people to try and get intoBC and then obviously uncover that a bit more.
Yeah, so my background is kind of, early wayback, I did a commerce and law degree at Unisw
here in Australia, so Sydney.
I'm based in Sydney, Australia.
(03:20):
Knew pretty early on I didn't want to be alawyer.
Tried a few kind of paralegal jobs, worked inthe industry for a bit, didn't really quite
enjoy it, but it was quite repetitive.
But what I really did know is I really lovebusiness.
I really love exploring business ideas,thinking about business models.
And then also during the time of university,was actually involved with an organization.
(03:42):
It's called Enactus.
It's not for profit organization, but it helpsEssentially, we were building and operating
social enterprise startups that wereessentially student run.
And that was kind of my first stint andexposure to the startup world.
And I fell in love with it.
It was amazing.
Got to build startups from the ground up and wewere students at the time, so we were just
(04:03):
trying to figure out what we're trying to do,right?
But that was kind of my first exposure to thestartup world.
And then kind of in my last year of uni, I gotlucky enough to attend this conference at
Stanford.
It's called the ASUS Summit.
Essentially, it was a week long conferencethere where we learned from a lot of founders
in the Silicon Valley space, VCs, operators,etcetera.
(04:23):
And again, that kind of solidified my view thatI wanted to work in this industry in the But
startup unfortunately, in Australia back then,so this has been back in 2017, the startup
ecosystem wasn't that developed as it is now.
There wasn't many pathways for people who werethinking about graduate jobs into the, for
(04:44):
example, VC or startup space.
And so I thought, I'll give managementconsulting a go for a couple of years.
I worked in management consulting for almostfour years, learnt a heck of a load, met some
amazing people as well.
And then more recently made the move to the VCat Super C Adventures.
So we've been working at the moment.
(05:05):
So getting close to that founder relationship,being able to work with founders directly, them
on the growth journey, and and obviously, yeah,really enjoying my time in the VC space at the
moment.
Yeah, and I'd say there's a lot of skills thatoverlap.
So being a consultant and then even having alaw degree, obviously there's complex terms
that you're navigating when you're negotiatingdeals.
(05:27):
Then I think with being a consultant, you'reanalytical.
I feel a lot of times when you do market sizingor when you're looking at the financials of a
company, I feel like those consulting skillscome back and then probably just basic problem
solving and critical thinking.
Would say that kind of ties back into some ofthose skills.
Because I'd say like every VC comes from like adifferent background and they kind of look at
(05:53):
those skills to kind of really compliment theirrole, I'd say, right?
Yeah, for sure.
And I think that's exactly right.
And it's a well trodden path.
There's been many consultants who've broken theVC, and obviously there's a reason why.
There's a lot of skillset overlap in terms ofwhat you mentioned just then around market
sizing, competitive analysis, thinking aboutmarkets and the trends in that market.
(06:14):
So there's a lot of overlap in terms of the BCskill set there, which obviously I found very
valuable having just started.
Yeah, definitely agree with what you said.
And tell us a little bit about the Australianecosystem.
So you said that it's kind of evolved in thelast few years.
What do you think has triggered that?
Has it just been a lot of people just movingthere for startup ecosystems?
(06:38):
Has there just been a lot more investmentdollars coming in?
Has there been government support to kind ofsupport innovation as well?
What do you think are some of the drivers forthat recent development?
Yeah, I think it's a variety of factors, right?
And exactly what you mentioned.
I think probably the first reason is you'restarting to see more successful startups arise
(06:58):
in Australia.
So back then there wasn't that many flagshipstartups that people could look to and say, Oh,
it's actually working in Australia.
And I can say typically we're maybe like tenyears or so behind Silicon Valley and what you
guys are doing in The US.
So, now that we're starting to see reallyemerging startups like Canva, Airwall X, some
(07:19):
of these unicorn companies coming out ofAustralia, it's really inspiring and it's
obviously inspiring to the next generation offounders and builders here in Australia to
continue to build.
And I think secondly is, as you mentioned,there's great incentives by government.
Obviously, still a lot of work to be done, butthere's been incentive by government to really
push and innovate tech in the Australianecosystem, whether it be funding or also kind
(07:42):
of support programs, etcetera.
So, there's definitely a big push there.
And what are some of the bigger industries thatyou're seeing?
Is it a lot of FinTech or I know that Australiawas also developing some technologies for
quantum computing.
They were like one of the unique centers foractually having stable platforms for quantum.
(08:04):
So I know that's been a huge breakthrough thatI've been reading about.
But what are some of the hot industries likeobviously I'm in New York, So fintech is a big
thing.
And then you know we I see a few patterns.
But what are some of the patterns that you'reseeing kind of in that area compared to like
the related regions?
(08:24):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, can't comment on the rest of the globe.
Obviously, we've been seeing all of that, but Ithink in Australia, I think it's pretty typical
among what we see in other countries as well.
So as you mentioned, FinTech's pretty big.
It's reflective generally of the industriesthat are big in Australia.
So FinTech is big.
Health tech is actually emerging as well.
There's a of health tech startups in Australiaare arising like Eucalyptus, not sure we heard
(08:47):
of that one, but it's growing.
It's a kind of series C now stage, is great.
And then I would say probably the typical SaaSis always big, B2B SaaS, those verticals,
marketplaces, they're always gonna be around.
So, those are growing as well.
And I would say, from my perspective atSupersede, we're looking at kind of the built
(09:07):
environment space, so the construction,property supply chain tech space.
And I think that's a pretty underserved marketgenerally, globally.
But I think we're starting to see more in thekind of Australia ANZ region, a lot more of
these companies emerging, which is greatobviously for the ecosystem considering this
(09:28):
industry is pretty underdeveloped in terms oftech adoption and overall.
So that's also great to see as well.
Yeah, and maybe you can, that's a good point tomaybe unpack Supersede's thesis and their
strategy, and maybe you can give us a littlebit of history on the firm and kind of some of
the things that you guys are looking for in thefounders.
(09:50):
Yeah, for sure.
So, as you mentioned, Supersede Ventures is acorporate venture capital fund.
So, we are backed by the Group.
So, Rees Group is Australia's largestdistributor or supplier of plumbing, HVAC and
waterworks products.
So if you imagine everything in your kitchens,your bathrooms, like the pipes, the toilets,
(10:13):
the faucets, the sinks, everything like that,Reis would supply all that.
And our thesis at SuperSeed is really to investin early stage startups, so kind of seed to
series A, which are aiming to improve the waythat trades people, I think you call it general
contracts in The US or North America, Yeah.
And then also trade suppliers.
So, for example, Reiss and the like, improvethe way they work in the future.
(10:37):
So whether that be through new revenue streamsfor the suppliers, but also any sort of
productivity tools or, it could be financing oreven educational resources for the trades
people as well for them to work better, Iguess, and grow their business.
Yeah.
What are some trends that you're seeing in theBILT world?
We had Suffolk Technologies, I think I told youabout Diana a while back.
(11:01):
So they're a $5,000,000,000 land developer.
So they have a corporate VC too.
So they've been talking a lot about just thefuture of construction robotics kind of
building structures.
And I think what's really interesting is theinternet of things kind of providing data in
(11:21):
real time to people that are monitoring thebuilding.
So any kind of high level trends or things thatyou're excited about in the future when it
comes to the built world that kind of aligns toyour thesis?
Yeah, for sure.
I can probably comment more so specifically totradespeople problems and what they've been
experiencing because obviously that's where ourmandate focuses on.
(11:42):
Yeah.
I'll probably say the first that is prettyevident so far is access to financing.
So if you imagine tradespeople, they run verysmall businesses, so like your builders, your,
I don't know, plumbers, for example.
They run very small businesses.
It could be either sole trader or maybebusinesses that are one to five people and they
need access to financing, right?
(12:03):
To get, for example, equipment financing orasset financing.
And typically these people typically find it ahard time to obtain loans from traditional
banks given their credit scores and justtypical small revenue cash flow coming in.
(12:23):
So, there's a real need for cash flow at thissmaller customer segment.
And we're starting to see now a lot morestartups that are targeting or addressing
problems actually, and solving solutions tothis problem, whether that be through flexible
financing options for these smaller customerbase, or could be easier ways to purchase
(12:45):
supplies or products from trade suppliers aswell.
And I think there's a few in The US I thinkthat I've seen over the past couple of months,
but that's been emerging over there.
So I think that's probably the first trend.
The second is, I'll probably say an easier wayfor trade suppliers to kind of work directly
with their customers, whether that be throughimproved communication platforms.
(13:08):
So typically if they want to purchase things,customers will have to input a purchase order,
go through formal procedures and then go forplatforms.
But if there's an easier way to streamline thecommunication process and the purchasing
process for customers to trade suppliers,that's also an area that a lot of startups are
trying to solve as well.
And I'll say the third part is probably more soa broader trend in the prop tech or
(13:33):
construction tech space is that shift towardskind of home renovation marketplace platforms.
So I think there's a heap of a load in The USright now addressing this space, but it's
essentially helping homeowners who want torenovate their homes easily do that through a
marketplace platform where they can be linkedup to general contractors, subcontractors,
(13:56):
etcetera, and easily streamline thecommunication process, streamline the payments
process, streamline the whole design process aswell.
And that's great to see.
I think one comment I would make here is thatit's a very underserved market in Australia and
New Zealand.
I haven't yet to see an emerging or big playerin this space.
(14:16):
It's probably because maybe Australia is justlacking and maybe a couple of years behind,
right?
It's definitely a space that I can see will bevery big potentially in Australia, given that
it's now shifting towards that millennialmarket who are entering the property market who
want to purchase their first homes.
And typically these millennials don't want totypically do it themselves.
(14:40):
They don't want to renovate So they're reallyleaning on third parties to help them do this.
And I think that's where this space or thesesolutions can really play a big part.
Yeah, because in The US they have a couple ofthose platforms, have Handy and a couple of
other ones, think it's Handy and guys help meout, I forgot the other one.
Block renovation, maid And
(15:02):
then Thumbtack is another one that I've used inthe past.
Are you saying more for like painting the wallsand installing like IKEA furniture?
Is this actual like real contractor work thatis being democratized?
So if you want to redo your bathroom prettymuch.
Yeah, exactly.
So I think it's a full home renovationexperience, right?
(15:23):
Not just your home service providers like yourpainters, etcetera.
Of course, that's been around for a while, butit's actually the full home renovation where
you can add a technology layer on that designprocess earlier on.
So if you wanna I wanna I wanna make mybathroom exactly like this.
Mhmm.
And then, you know, it's all all on a software.
Mhmm.
I think that's where the trend is movingtowards.
(15:44):
Kind
of like augmented reality where you can kind ofsee how the new cabinet would look pretty much.
You see some innovation and software there.
Know IKEA was kind of doing some of that withtheir cabinets and stuff.
Played around that we were actually going putin a new cabinet and you can actually take a
(16:05):
photo of your wall and then put it there andsee what it looks like.
But I think having even a designer come in likethree d and kind of have them remodel your
home, I think is really cool.
And I think what are your thoughts on the macrotrends impacting the cost of labor?
Because I feel like a lot of times too, cost oflabor is going up as well.
(16:28):
So it's going to be much more expensive to getpeople to do that work.
And I feel that people will still be willing topay that cost because they just don't want to
do it.
There's less and less people that want to dothe manual labor and they want to get more into
Most of the workers now are knowledge workers.
So do you see the price of that increasingbecause it being a less desirable job that
(16:53):
people want to do?
Yeah, so I think that's definitely There's alot of macro factors playing a part here and
cost of labor is definitely one of them.
I can say that for some of these startups inthis space that I've been seeing is that a
strong focus on, for example, if it's amarketplace platform, a strong focus on
procuring the supply side, which is essentiallythe general contractors, the contractors,
(17:17):
subcontracts, etcetera, a big focus for them,given that there is just a shortage, right,
generally, because there's just not First ofall, there's not many around and there's a huge
demand for it now because people are There'sjust a shift towards renovating homes rather
than perhaps purchasing new homes because of,say, rising property prices, etcetera.
(17:37):
That's obviously a big issue.
But yeah, you're right, there's definitely aproblem in terms of Well, there could be
problems with greater cost of labor and some ofthese startups will have to address that and
that's definitely something on their minds,right?
Yeah, we just had a two hour lecture today.
I was actually chatting with some studentstoday about just macro effects of real estate
(18:01):
and what we're seeing in The US is just lack ofinventory.
So there's large private equity firms buying uphundreds and hundreds of multifamily
residences.
And some of them, I feel, may not come backonto the because there's just people buying
that inventory up.
(18:22):
There's a lack of inventory.
So I think rental prices are going up as well.
So I don't know.
I would love to learn a little more about justthe general rental or real estate market in
Australia.
Is it very similar?
Are you guys also seeing higher interest ratesand is that impacting the price or the cost or
(18:44):
anything else, I guess?
Or maybe it's just The US?
Oh, no, I think it's definitely reflected herein Australia as well.
Property prices have been significantly risingover the past five years.
I think Australia is actually in the top fiveof the most expensive places to live, I think
globally.
And that's reflective of, yeah, for example,the rising property prices.
(19:05):
As you mentioned, interest rates are rising aswell.
And that's obviously making it perhaps less interms of you don't want to actually borrow
money, for example.
And all these macro factors entirely actually,yeah, it just make it difficult overall for
people to maybe think about purchasing a homeand people are shifting towards more of that
(19:27):
rental model now, especially for youngergenerations where they're, say, millennials or
people just entering the workforce.
And I think there's What I've seen is there's alot of these Perhaps in this prop tech space,
more of these rent to buy models appearing.
And I think that's definitely evident in TheUS, but in Australia, it's only just That
(19:48):
adoption has only just become.
And I think there is definitely a trend towardsan adoption of that sort of model given the
macro conditions in the market.
That's just my overall comment to me.
Yeah, I mean, look, I've met a few VCs thathave been digital nomads.
So there's a woman that I know, her and herhusband, she's running the fund and her husband
(20:10):
can work remotely.
So they were traveling pretty much all overLatin America.
So that was really interesting to be able tosee that.
Airbnb is allowed to do that.
So are you seeing the digital nomad culturestill thriving?
Are you seeing that start to trickle down alittle bit now because there's people moving to
(20:31):
a hybrid work environment and people are comingback to work?
So just talking about the pandemic and just howpeople are working, what are some trends that
you're seeing with that?
Because I'm assuming that also impacts probablycommercial real estate as well, right?
Yeah, for sure.
I can probably say that, obviously because ofCOVID, there's been a shift towards more work
(20:53):
from home and remote work.
It's become more acceptable.
I know some people who've been Well, forexample, myself, I'm actually fully remote,
working fully remote at the moment.
So that's the one example of perhaps maybe a nobad, but I don't know many that are, traveling
around Australia and working.
It's probably a bit of a less of a case, but Ithink there's definitely a trend towards that
(21:14):
hybrid model.
Like a lot of large organisations, evenstartups actually, are encouraging that hybrid
model and perhaps more so for the early stagestartups, they're actually okay with fully
remote work.
And it's working, right?
People are seeing that people can still beeffective working remote.
Depending on what their role is, obviously yougotta balance that with culture, obviously,
(21:38):
especially at the early stage.
But if they're effective, then why not?
It's working.
But I probably say the bias is still towards ahybrid model rather than a shift towards fully
remote.
That's probably a bit of an extent.
People still do value being in the office,collaborating with workmates, etcetera.
Yeah, and I mean, there's been companies likeAirbnb that have been super flexible and I feel
(22:00):
that's gonna impact retention as well.
I think with the whole great resignation, thatwas a huge thing in The US, especially being in
New York.
There were people that just were reallyunhappy.
And I feel that the pandemic really stimulatedthat.
So they were just kind of like, look, I canprobably take a few months off and figure out
(22:22):
something else and reset.
So I feel like a lot of people did resign andgo to other places that were much more
accommodating.
So I feel like we did reach a shift where theworker did have some leverage to make sure that
they had a safe environment that's flexible,where they can also still have balance with
(22:46):
their personal life as well.
So I feel like the companies that are able tobe more flexible are able to retain, they have
an edge as far as retaining talent.
I forgot the blog, but there was a venturefund, I think called Footwork.
And they wrote a really interesting article.
I don't know if you read that one, but it wasabout the employee actually having a lot of
leverage now these days when it comes to beingpart of a high growth startup.
(23:11):
Definitely.
Well, maybe we can see if there's any questionshere.
So anyone in the audience feel free to pingsome questions.
Maybe for the audience, for education purposes,you can maybe walk us through a little bit of
your framework in terms of how you're sourcingand screening deals and any advice you'd have
(23:32):
for someone that's new to venture in terms ofselection criteria and what you look for in
founders.
Yeah, I mean, there's a broad range of factorsobviously when you're assessing a startup.
If I can kind of distill that to maybe four keyareas.
First being obviously So just for context,Super C Adventures, we're early stage fund, so
(23:56):
in that seed stage.
So number one, team is very important for us.
Really understanding the founders' backgrounds,how closely connected they are with the
problem.
Do they have the domain expertise?
Do they have some sort of insight that can givethem an advantage over others?
I think that's very key.
We obviously look for that in our meetings withthem, assessing them over time.
(24:17):
And usually we like to build a longrelationship with founders, not just kind of
and then invest in like two or three weeks.
I mean, of course, that's obviously given if wehave to be competitive, of course, that's the
case as well.
But typically we would prefer to develop thatrelationship over time.
And I think that's what a good VC does is buildthat relationship early and support them and
(24:37):
see how they're going, right?
And the second thing is probably aroundproducts.
Product is pretty big for us, understanding howis it differentiated versus others and really
how defensible is their business, right?
Like this, there's always going to becompetitors around, there's always going to be
other incumbents and other emerging startups inthis space, but it's really how defensible can
(25:00):
their product be versus their competitors.
And it really is down to what sort of insightdo they have, what's their edge around the
product, do customers really love the product,is it sticky enough, etcetera.
And it probably leads to my third point aroundtraction.
Obviously, at an early stage, revenue may notbe existing yet, that's fine.
(25:23):
Really having some sort of traction where itcould be, for example, user growth, engagement
metrics, active users, for example, that's agood indication typically of how well the
product is doing how much the It's actually anidentification of product market fit, right?
Is very important in that early stage, right?
And some startups in that early stage may nothave had or evidence of product market fit yet.
(25:48):
So that's a pretty good indication of that.
The fourth is probably the random market,right?
And this is more so because we are Supercede isa very industry focused fund.
We do a lot of research in the markets and weknow which of the emerging areas that we like
to focus on.
So I would say, understanding the emergingtrends there.
(26:13):
Obviously market sizing is important as well,and not the be your end all.
And obviously what's coming up in this space,right?
And I think I would say on top of that, becausewe are a corporate VC fund, having a strategic
element and how relevant is it to RISE is, Iwould say, probably the first filtering process
(26:34):
really.
I think for any sort of strategically focusedCVC funds, that's always going to be the case,
I think.
Yeah, I know.
It's a good point.
I mean, CVCs are looking for a strategic fit.
So something that can, I'm assuming there's acouple of factors, right?
So increasing the shareholder value ofcorporation, and then also providing some new
(27:00):
revenue channels to enhance the business.
I think that's, another big piece that I alwayssee is just providing just general cost savings
to the company.
So if you're paying like $20,000 for billing,and then you invest in a company that's able to
bring that down to like 10%.
Right.
And you can do that for do the same level ofwork for a fraction of the cost.
(27:24):
And there's actual cost savings and valuethat's created.
And then if that company also does have a largeexit, then you get some financial return too,
right?
And I guess that's probably something thatyou're balancing, right?
Strategic versus financial return.
But if you can
do both, that's always great.
Yeah.
(27:44):
And I will say on that is that, I think there'stwo extremes of CVCs is obviously that what you
mentioned is very strategically focused, andthen the other end is probably that financial
focus.
Super seed sits in that more strategic focusedside.
But obviously having said that, financialreturns are still important because we still
are VC fund, we still want to return to Reiss.
(28:09):
But as you mentioned, having that strategicelement is important because do Rice has the
networks, we have the customer base, we've gotthe industry expertise, and we can really help
our portfolio scale through those networks andconnections.
I would say that's an advantage for some of thestartups that we invest in versus maybe some
more generic kind of industry agnostic funds.
(28:33):
Yeah, it looks like Alice, you had a questionabout LATAM?
Yeah, I just wanted to ask what role does US orLATAM plays in Supersea?
Yeah, so actually, probably should havementioned that earlier.
So even though we are based in Australia, we doinvest in North America as well.
(28:55):
So that's US and Canada.
And the reason for that is Reese has asubsidiary which they acquired back in 2018,
Morseco, and that's why we like to invest inthat early stage in North America as well,
because we have a presence there.
Sure.
Yeah, North America and ANZ.
Those are the three markets we typically investin.
(29:16):
Is the name again of your North America arm?
Yeah.
So it was called Morseco, m o r s c o.
But it was acquired back in 2018.
It's actually now under the ReStore Groupumbrella.
So I think it should be branded as ReStore.
Cool.
Yep.
(29:39):
I can probably touch on the sorry, Joel, on thethat you mentioned the the Venture Studio side
of our business as
that's a good thing.
Yeah, I forgot to bring that up.
So that's a good thing to touch on.
Which I can talk to.
I mean, I'm in the investment team in the VCside of things, so probably less so involved
with the venture studio side.
But yeah, as you mentioned, we do have aventure studio team who is essentially building
(30:02):
new ventures from the ground up.
And that's usually kind of fed through from theproblems that we see in the market as an
investment team.
And it's kind of like a synergisticpartnership, right?
Because we see problems and we can bring inpeople who are close to the problem, whether it
be founders or the like, and then reallyconnect them to race and help build new
(30:28):
solutions to these problems.
Yeah, that's my understanding of the team andthey've built a few ventures so far and it's
going well.
Yeah, and for the audience too, I've actuallybeen chatting with a few venture studios.
So sometimes there's benefits because typicallyas a VC, you're getting less of an ownership
(30:49):
position, even if you're leading the deal,you're not gonna have a large massive
percentage ownership in the company.
But from what I've heard with Venture Studios,because you're incubating and building the
entire technology in house, you do have alarger stake on the cap table.
That a trend that you're seeing as well ingeneral?
(31:11):
Doesn't have to be about supersede, but just inventure studios as a whole, because they're
building and I guess obviously taking on alittle more risk, pretty much operating the
company.
Do you see them having much more ownership thanlike a typical VC?
Yeah, I probably can't comment on that too muchgiven I'm not exposed directly to the venture
(31:31):
studio side of things.
And I think what I would say is that inAustralia, we're not as developed this model.
There's starting to be more of these venturestudios arising in, say, larger corporations.
Like for example, your BCG, Digital Ventures,there's other large organisations which have
their own venture studio side as well, but Iwould say it's not as developed and it's still
(31:53):
a model that that Australia, or I guess peoplein Australia are still trying to figure out if
there is value to say corporations and thelike.
So I can't really comment on the ownershiptarget per se, but I would assume that's
correct.
They're taking on more risk building new thingswithin the organization context.
I think that's probably could correct.
(32:15):
And in general terms, what are some of the teammembers that you need to have in a venture
studio?
Is it, I'm assuming probably like a productmanager and developers and probably UX
designers?
Is it almost like a pretty much like an inhouse product team?
Do they just hire staff to keep building theseventures?
(32:36):
Yeah, yeah.
I think you're right.
Given that you're building something fromliterally zero, you do need that expertise of
people who have experience building things.
So for example, on the product side, productdesign, developers, product managers, more of
that product focus because you're buildingsomething that is yet to exist really.
(32:57):
And probably less so on strategy, per se.
But as the venture scales, I'm sure they canhire more people that are more relevant to
other areas, right?
For example, the operations side, etcetera.
But yeah, at that early stage, just reallyfocused those roles.
Yeah, no, that's really helpful.
What are some red flags when you're evaluatingearly stage founders that you often see?
(33:23):
Guess, if you're trying to give some advice toa new VC, what are some things that they should
look for?
Maybe I'll give one example.
It's like sometimes when I hear that there's nocompetitors, another one is, I think one big
one that I see is doing what you say you'regonna do.
(33:45):
So if you say you're going to have your beta intwo weeks and then you don't hear from them for
a long time and there's no beta, it's just awatch point.
But I don't know if you have any advice forsome of these emerging fund managers to think
about that as they're talking to founders andevaluating them or evaluating the company.
(34:09):
Yeah, for sure.
I would say as a founder or someone building acompany, would say having a strong
understanding of your business inside out,whether that be really understanding your unit
economics, for example, and being able tocommunicate that clearly to investors is key.
We've seen people in the past who don't reallyhave a good understanding of unit economics,
(34:32):
that's pretty critical for investors because wewant to see that your business on scale at a
good margin, right?
And unit economics are healthy.
So I think it's probably number one.
And number two is And this isn't to do afounder thing, but it's more so are the
founders generally excited about the problemthat they're building?
And we typically tell, right, if you're notthat genuine and And you can kind of evaluate
(34:57):
that by asking a series of questions aroundtheir background and what's really motivating
them in general as a person.
And then you can kind of apply that to a VClens and how they're trying to solve the
problem that they're building towards.
And then I would say the third thing isprobably around, do your homework around the
market.
And as you mentioned, yeah, there's alwaysgoing be competitors.
(35:17):
If they're saying there's no competitors, theydo like a two by two and there's great vendors,
that's pretty big red flag.
I would also say that have an understanding ofmarket Market sizing isn't a be or end, or as I
said, but you still need to have a view as tomarket sizing and how you got to that number.
Whether that be a bottom up approach.
(35:38):
And that's preferable, right?
Bottom up is preferable, but if you can't, thentop down is fine as well.
But really having a good understanding of thatand how you see that market changing growing
over time is key.
Because obviously as VCs, we look for largegrowing markets and if the market is smaller,
then it's probably a no from us.
(35:59):
That's pretty key.
It's not a venture backed up business.
Yeah, no, I totally agree.
And I feel with some of the pullback, I feelthere's a lot of companies that are early stage
that are building their business in a much morelean way.
So they're much more capital efficient.
(36:21):
So sometimes I look at the capital efficiencyof the business and that's a good signal too
that they can withstand their burn rate andtheir run rate for much longer than a frothy
environment.
Some of the people that raise too much money orspend too much money, I think the
(36:42):
sustainability is going to be a really hugerisk
in
the next probably eighteen months.
Yeah, for sure.
I think definitely this environment, it's afront of mind for every sort of early stage
founder is extending runway, being very lean inoperations and really cutting down on
unnecessary costs.
Yeah, for sure.
I think it's definitely something that And thatgoes to play with the valuation as well, right?
(37:04):
People are raising at much lower valuations.
Well, I assume in The US that's probably thesame, but that's probably Yeah, over the next
couple of years, we'll see how that plays out.
And are you guys looking at consumer tech aswell and B2B SaaS, or is it mainly B2B SaaS?
Yeah, so I'll say our previous investments havetypically been B2B SaaS, but that's not to
(37:28):
preclude B2C.
Yeah.
But I'd say typically it's harder for B2C inthis environment and also for construction tech
in general, because there has to be reallystrong adoption of consumers wanting to use And
the I would say for trades people in general,they're typically not that tech savvy, if that
makes sense.
(37:50):
It really has to be an intuitive product thatis very easy to use and that has strong
adoption, whether that be viral marketing orsome sort of factor that can help it be adopted
and being used.
So yeah, I'd say B2B is Yeah, it's been astrong focus for a while in this industry, I
think.
But yeah, perhaps maybe in the future there'llbe a more B2C focused infrastructure.
(38:11):
Yeah.
There's also the concept of B2B to B2C, right?
So you have a big construction firm who's yourenterprise client.
That company has like a dashboard, but then toyour point, maybe the construction workers get
like a mobile app to kind of monitor something.
So I don't know if you see that as also anemerging trend where there's different types of
(38:36):
users, where they get different types ofscreens.
We see this with LinkedIn, right?
So when you go to linkedin.com, there's onlyone LinkedIn, but the customers are marketers
that are trying to marketing on LinkedIn.
There's job seekers, there's job, there'speople who are posting jobs.
So I wonder if that's also a trend too in theconstruction tech space where there's just
(39:02):
different users and sometimes the constructionor the the trades people, they they can't look
at like a complex dashboard.
They just want to like open up an app whereit's kind of like Uber.
You just press one button and you can kind ofachieve what you want to do.
So that's pretty interesting too.
Yeah, think for sure.
And I think that's actually a lot about, in asense you say B2B, but then a lot of our
(39:26):
portfolio is actually B2B2C as well.
And I would say that because the structure oftrades people is that small trades businesses,
they still hire maybe one to five employees.
So it typically still is a B2B2C in
a
sense.
As you mentioned, construction companies andlarge trade suppliers even have their own
(39:49):
customers.
So that in itself is a B2B2C model.
So yeah, it's certainly an area.
Yeah, because you talk about FinTech too, and Icome from a FinTech background and I was
working on some wealth management software andwhen you think about it like you're a financial
advisor, you're kind of like going into aterminal, right?
And you wanna kind of see like your advisorview, but if you're a client, you just wanna
(40:14):
see something really slick.
It's like, hey, you know what, I bought someinsurance products, I bought some investments
and here's a really cool thing I can do with myfinger and I can see my assets change colors or
can pinch and zoom on the graph.
So I think that's really, really interesting,like when it comes to design.
And that's probably where the venture studiocomes into because they really need to think
(40:37):
through like who the user is when they enterthe screen.
What are they trying to do?
Are they trying to on a and then it's likedifferent on phone versus desktop, right?
So it's definitely the form factor like thedigital experience changes.
So it's really interesting to see how peoplethink through that.
So
yeah, for sure.
(40:57):
Yeah.
Cool.
Well, we got fifteen minutes.
Anybody else has any questions, shout it out.
I always ask one final question as we wrap up.
One of the questions I always ask is if youhave any wisdom or things you wanna share for
maybe like a mentor, if there's like a mentorthat helped you with your career or maybe it's
a colleague of yours that you've learned fromany professional life lessons you wanna share
(41:23):
with us we wrap up?
Yeah, I mean, this is probably more so acareer, maybe personal sort of advice, I know
some of your audience is trying to break intoVC and other maybe amazing roles, but I'd say
be okay with failure and rejection.
(41:44):
People think it's the end of the world if youapply to five and you don't get in kind of
thing.
It's like the end of the world.
But really, it's a really hard industry to getinto.
You have to be gritty, you gotta be persistent.
You really are passionate about an industry orjob that you want to work in, then you gotta
keep on it.
And I think that just goes to life as well,right?
(42:06):
In anything, any sort of pursuit you want todo, you gotta just be resilient and you can't
give up.
So yeah, that's probably something that comesto mind.
Cool.
And then it looks like there was two questionshere.
What was the most exciting venture?
So I guess whatever you're allowed to share, ifthere's something like an exciting startup that
you looked at, and then somebody is wonderingif you're hiring too.
(42:31):
Yeah, Shock, I can probably comment on our morerecent investments early this year.
It's in Bluon.
So Blu On's based in The US, I think theycompleted a Series B early this year, but
essentially they're a support platform for HVACservice technicians.
So if you imagine your HVAC techniciansinstalling things in commercial buildings,
(42:52):
residential buildings, etcetera, they usuallyIf they're installing a certain model of a HVAC
product, typically they need a manual tounderstand how to install it.
That might not be on hand all the time.
So what BlueOne has done is they've reallyimported all the manuals from a whole range of
different HVAC models onto an easy use appwhere they can really cross reference every
(43:16):
single part down to the individual bolt andreally know to install those models.
And what they're shifting towards now, and thenactually it's soon to be launched, is an e
commerce platform for service technicians toactually purchase products from trade
suppliers, like RACE, for example, which isreally exciting, right?
(43:37):
And I think they've got over 150,000, I thinkmaybe close to 150,000 users on board at the
moment, which I think is close to two thirds ofThe US market.
It's pretty And amazing yeah, they're growingincredibly strong.
They're expanding nationally as well.
So yeah, that's a really exciting Probably oneof our key flagship investments that we made
(43:59):
recently.
That's great.
And on the hiring in The US comment, I thinkprobably I can't comment on that at the moment,
but it's probably not so at the moment, but whoknows?
Let us know.
Maybe in the future we will.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And I think advice that I've always receivedfrom people is a great way, even if you're not
(44:21):
hiring, is to just showcase really cool dealflow.
So you guys are focused on the built world andprop tech and a lot of those innovations that
you're looking at.
I would say bubbling up really interestingdeals that they know would excite you.
(44:43):
I think that's a great way to start thediscussion and build a relationship.
That's always been some conventional wisdomthat I've seen.
Yeah, for sure.
I think and for people wanting to break intoVC, I think that's a really good exercise to
do.
You might kind of build your own paperportfolio of startups that you would ideally
invest in, and you can do your own researchreally.
(45:04):
I think VCs will be impressed when you applyfor them and you have that portfolio on paper
that you would invest in, you can actually giveyour own investment thesis as to why you would
invest in those startups.
I think that's a great way to show initiativethat you're really doing the job without having
the job already.
So it's a good exercise, I think.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
(45:24):
That was helpful for me too when I was gettingstarted.
Hey, Nicholas, I know you're super busy, sothanks so much for coming We all learned a lot,
so appreciate it and hope to I've never been toAustralia, so hopefully one day when I make it
out there, we can hang out.
If you come out here, let me know.
Yeah, for sure.
Happy do that.
And thanks for having on the show.
(45:45):
Yeah, thanks a lot, Nick.
Have a good Take care.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.