Rahul Rana: Lux Capital

In this episode, Rahul Rana from Lux Capital joins to discuss his journey into venture capital, focusing on deep tech investments. The conversation covers Lux Capital's investment thesis, emerging trends in foundational markets, and the potential of space exploration and human-technology integration. Rahul shares insights on assessing deep tech startups, founder psychology, and overcoming industry challenges. He delves into moon colonization, satellite internet, and life extension prospects. The episode also explores deep tech in ESG and energy, investment stages, and Rahul's experience writing "Making Moonshots". The discussion concludes with life advice, serendipity in investing, and future writing plans.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
We go from, you know, things that are externalto things that are internal.

(00:03):
And so that's this one line that this arrow ofprogress, right?
This this sort of inevitable line that, youknow, are you like everything will, you know,
technology will just keep it keep coming closerin contact, you know, in contact with humans,
but just like, you know, interconnected, right.
And so that's basically one of those lines of,you know, those inevitable lines of or trends
that they've been investing in, when they're,you know, when they're sort of their staple

(00:26):
investments wasn't control labs, right, whichis literally like a mind control company,
right.
So we went from, you know, laptops, right, anybig, you know, computers on our desks, but now
we can control machines with our mind.
Welcome to The Investor, a podcast where I,Joel Palafinkel, your host, dives deep into the
minds of the world's most influentialinstitutional investors.

(00:49):
In each episode, we sit down with an investorto hear about their journeys and how global
markets are driving capital allocation.
So join us on this journey as we explore theseinsights.
We'll just just do it do it off the cuff, youknow.
Yeah.
Awesome.

(01:09):
So it looks like it's kicking off now.
But hey, you know, for those of you on thecall, we've got Rahul Rana from Lux Capital.
He's still in school, but you're able tobalance both, I guess.
Right?
So it's kind of a unique opportunity where youcan still finish school, but have a unique role
at a fund.
And I think you're an associate as well.

(01:31):
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And fun fact, don't wanna, you know, kill yourthunder here, but you wrote a book called
Making Moonshots.
And I tell these people that they should bringin, like, an investment memo, bring in, a deck
of, like, a company they should look for, but Ithink you are raising the bar.
And, you know, hopefully, probably in a year,it's gonna be the norm that people have to

(01:55):
publish publish a formal book.
Thanks for making it hard for all of us.
You're welcome.
Well, hey, why don't we kick it off?
Maybe you can tell us a little bit about kindawhere you're located and LUX Capital, how you
broke into the role and, you know, some of theinvestment thesis that that they have and maybe

(02:19):
some tips of what helped you kind of engagewith the fund and and really just land the job.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Of course.
So I guess, you know, little bit about mybackground.
So currently in Central Jersey, I go toRutgers, I'm studying astrophysics and finance.
And basically, my entire life, my dad, heworked at Bell Labs.
So as a kid, I'd go, you know, goes to the labsand everything.

(02:41):
And, you know, see all the Nobel Prizes and seeother inventions and breakthroughs and whatnot.
Just got super, you know, super obsessed withall things, you know, r and d, right.
And I really want to be this sort of inventor,growing up, but then I got to high school fell
into like the finance crowd and sort of, youknow, in college, I want to combine into,
right.
So have the science and tech influence have thefinance influence deep tech VC, which is this
perfect sort of, you know, intersection betweenthe two.

(03:03):
And so, you know, I realized that, you know, Ihave all this passion for all this energy.
And it's like, really want to do somethingbold.
And you know, the time, I don't know if it wasjust a, you know, the universe looking out for
me, but I just came across this one, this oneguy on LinkedIn, who had to have a conversation
with, he eventually, you know, became my mentorand sort of brought me along on the book
process.
And so he's just one, he's just one investor,also a professor and sort of just, know, his

(03:27):
free time, he likes to mentor people in writingbooks, but he said, like, know, he usually
mentors experts, right professionals, not notstudents.
And so I was like, hey, like, know, can youtake a chance on me?
Like, I really am passionate about this.
And, yeah, thank God that he did it.
And, the rest of history.
So he got me set up with a book deal,publisher, the usual stuff.
And then, yeah, one of the people I interviewedfor my book, right, it's, know, it's called

(03:50):
making moonshots all about, know, deep techcompanies, and really like the philosophies and
mindsets and strategies behind them.
And I interviewed Josh Wolfe, he's a co founderand managing partner of Lux Capital, probably
one of the biggest, I was a deep tech VC firmsin the world.
So it's really, really cool.
I'm getting his perspective on everything.
And, know, I kept in contact with him.
And then, know, couple months after I like,hey, Josh, like, I'm doing the research into

(04:13):
what you guys invest into, like, I couldhustle, like, can I work for you?
And he was just like, yeah, like, carried me onspots is pretty cool.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so, so to your question on how did I sortof get this myself for that?
And, you know, how do I how do I, know, engagewith the fund?
So that's why that's basically what I did.
I would, you know, I interviewed the foundersof the firm.

(04:34):
And I was just like, know, down the line, youknow, I kept in contact with him.
I kept an updated on my progress of the book, Iwas probably very, very key, I would say, every
two months or so I'd email him say like, yeah,this is progress.
And I would actually recommend students, oranyone trying to break into VC, just like
updating the people, their their contacts atwhatever VC firms that they have over time,

(04:55):
because you're, you're probably not going toget on the first email, right, getting
positioned there.
But you know, if you prove that, like, youknow, you're working towards whatever goals
that you have, and, you know, you actually, youactually can put into work for again, whatever
sort of thing that you want to that you're sortof proving like, that that goes a long way in
terms of, you know, they could look backthrough all your emails and see like, oh, like,
you know, you've been working on this for forhowever long, and you have the persistence and

(05:16):
the perseverance and whatnot.
So that that I strategically did that.
And so, you know, by the time I did ask him forposition, yeah, I'd probably have emailed him
four or five times by then, like, saw theprogress of my book.
I sent him a chapter of my book.
So, you know, actually, you know, it was not,you know, something Not like a, you know, like
a like a research paper for like a class likethat.

(05:37):
It like, you know, a legitimate book andeverything that like, you know, sort of gave me
credibility and whatnot.
And yeah, he hired me on the spot.
So yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, it would be helpful to know kindof the the process for getting a book
published.
So do you talk to a publisher and tell themwhat you're gonna write about?
And then they give you I think they give you anadvance and then you write the book, I guess.

(05:59):
Right?
Is that usually how it works?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So there's a there's a bunch of different ways,you know, different for every author.
But I would say either you go the traditionalroute or the self publishing route.
So again, both have their pros and cons.
So I obviously had a firm with me.
So, yeah, I got a I basically, for a few monthsor so, I'd say it was like five to six months

(06:19):
or so, again, under the mentorship of that one,one mentor, I basically came to like a really,
really rough manuscript, right for took likefive or six months or so to get to that, right
doing all the research, putting out the paper,it was very, very mediocre.
It was not by any means the final product.
But just I had a working manuscript is what itwas basically the goal.
Then he put me in contact with the publishingcompany, obviously pitched to them.

(06:42):
They knew, fortunately, they accepted it.
And so then then I was, you know, they set meup with one of their editors and, you know,
that whole process started.
And so yeah, then then once they got theirhelp, then I really, really refined it really
improved it.
And the rest is history.
Yeah, it's first just making that really,really rough manuscript proving that you
actually do have some potential for sales orpotential with this book, then sort of

(07:07):
negotiate a deal and then the publisher helpsyou with everything else.
Yeah.
No.
That's great.
And so I think it'd be helpful to go throughjust high level thesis on deep tech.
So with deep tech, how does Lux look at deeptech and how do they develop different theses?

(07:27):
You and I have talked about space and some ofour thoughts on that and some companies that we
think are really interesting.
But you know, how do you cut through all thatnoise and and, you know, have focus in a
certain sector?
Because deep tech can still just be superbroad.
Right?
So focus
on I guess, are the areas that you're excitedabout?

(07:48):
And then, you know, what have you seen just inthe industry with some other deep tech funds
and where they should focus on?
Yeah, yeah, of course.
So one of the things that Lux really likes tolook for and that I find to be really, really,
again, customer noise and everything is theylook for the intersection of what's impossible
and inevitable.
So you know, what people think is impossible,but really isn't, and what sort of inevitable

(08:11):
in terms of, you know, market timing and, know,people's, you know, trends and whatever, maybe
where people's preferences, like whatever,whatever trend there is out there, just like,
it's inevitable that this will happen.
But people think it's impossible, right?
So for example, I'll give you, you know, Joshis sort of, you know, one of his favorite
examples is that, you know, in terms ofcomputing, and then sort of computers, right?
We sort of started, you know, I don't know,fifty six years ago with this, you know, these

(08:35):
incredibly big, like, you know, machines andwhatnot.
Right?
And we we came from, you know, ENIAC computers,and then we came to, you know, smaller, you
know, desktop computers, right, then we came tophones, and then we came to, you know, from
from phones to like, AirPods, or in your ears,and then things in your eyes.
And then we have, you know, sort of noninvasive robotics and stuff inside you.
And so there's you see this line of ourtechnologies becoming even more sort of, know,

(09:00):
interconnected with the human body, right?
We go from, you know, things that are externalto things that are internal.
And so that's this one line that's this arrowof progress right this this sort of inevitable
line that you know, are you like everythingwill you know technology will just keep it keep
coming closer in contact, you know, in contactwith humans, just like, you know,
interconnected, right.
And so that's basically one of those lines of,you know, those inevitable lines of or trends

(09:24):
that they've been investing in, when they're,you know, when they're sort of their staple
investments wasn't control labs, right?
Which is literally like a mind control company,right?
So we went from, know, laptops, right?
Any big, you know, computers on our desks, butnow we can control machines with our mind.
And as I
Facebook, Facebook required.
Yeah, yeah, Facebook required it.
Yeah, yeah.
So again, it just goes to show, right?
This the sort of this, the interplay between,between humans and technology, right?

(09:47):
Like we're like one being and now it isbasically what this, this inevitable line is.
And so that's just, know, one example onthere's, there's a bunch of other ones, right?
I mean, in general, right?
Everyone wants things that are faster and moreconvenient, right?
So anything that sort of, know, at that line,right?
Whatever processes there is in the world,right?
If you can make it faster and more convenient,more cheaper, people will buy that, right?

(10:09):
So as again, just finding these inevitable sortof trends and lines and then investing at the
products that sort of harness those.
Ideally, when people think they're impossible,that's when you get the biggest sort of return.
Yeah, that's one of them among many.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What are some things that we should be keepinga close close ear to the to the floor on, you

(10:30):
know, some some trends that we should just keepon our radar?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Of course.
So there's a few of them.
I would say one thing so, you know, in inregards to things being inevitable, one thing
that Lux likes to invest in is sort of like thequote unquote arms dealer for markets.
So what that means, alright, like the thecreator economy.
Right?
And that that's booming right now.

(10:51):
Right?
You know, there's there's so many, you know,different creators.
Right?
They're doing whatever.
One thing that all these creators need iscamera equipment.
Right?
And so one of one of the companies that Luxalmost didn't invest into is one company that
sort of get made all the camera equipment, youknow, made all these different sort of like
drone, like drones and whatnot for for, youknow, content creators and directors and
producers, whatever it be.

(11:11):
That's again, it's just this sort of thisinevitable thing that people will always need
this product no matter where this again, nomatter where the creator economy will go.
Right?
So that's just, you know, one way to think ofit.
They like to invest into like the quote unquotearms dealers or like the the foundation of said
market.
So that's Maybe
almost like the the lot of people say picks andshovels.
Is that pretty similar?

(11:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, you you know, something that, you know,said market or said entry or whatever, it just
needs And and and sort of like the demand forthat will never go away.
So that's like one thing definitely like interms of like space.
One thing Lux likes is that, you know, they'renot investing directly into, you know, things
that can go up and down, right, launchcompanies, for example, but they're rather

(11:53):
investing into infrastructure.
Yeah.
That that'll that'll, you know, everything thatthat goes to space will need, you know,
whatever, whatever robotics or manufacturing,whatever, you know, that that anything will
need to go to space.
Right?
So so they will, they're always invested intothings that have that, that that constant that
will always have that demand is what they'retrying to look for.
So yeah, so that's for space.

(12:15):
They're looking to a lot of simulationcompanies, right?
So so you know, to improve the weather lines orto improve the world, we need to simulate it,
right?
We need to run all these tests, we need tooptimize things, right?
We need to know what what works and whatdoesn't.
And so if we could simulate things, thatthere's a whole that there's there's someone
sorting a market potential for that.
One of their companies, right?
AVA, if I'm not mistaken, it does a four dLiDAR.

(12:37):
So it simulates the, you know, the worldaround, you know, whatever camera or is
controlling, you know, this this this sort ofthis chip and, you know, they, it's perfect for
autonomous vehicles, right?
So now they gave autonomous vehicles, literalbrains, and it could simulate the world around
them, like in real time and with withincredible accuracy.
And, yeah, now it's an autonomous cars and, youknow, they're doing amazing things.

(12:58):
So, again, simulation is that's like onereally, really sort of really big trend that
that Lux is looking at.
Yeah.
I can name a bunch, but but that that's sort ofthe gist of it.
So
yeah.
I mean, with simulation, I think that could bean application for quantum computing.
So simulating material sciences, I think that'ssomething that I read.
But I think quantum in general is still in thenoisy state.

(13:20):
So it's not ready to be scalable yet.
But when it does get to that scalable state, Ifeel like if you could simulate multiple
scenarios all at the same time, you couldprobably build models and streamline them much
faster.
100%.
Yeah.
And then let's talk about space.
I think we can nerd out on that for a littlebit.

(13:40):
So with Acxiom, the last news that came outwith them raising some capital, do you think
there'll be multiple space stations?
Because there's the massive space station thatthey're building, but do you think in the
future there'll be just different colonies inspace?
I guess, what are what are some of your longtheses for space and then

(14:01):
Mhmm.
Maybe even just going to Mars?
You know, what are some things or predictionsthat you'd see happening there?
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
That's super exciting stuff.
So so obviously, you know, space is sort oflike the last frontier.
Right?
And and there's so much potential to be yeah.
Yeah.
So much so much money to be made there.
But in terms of, know, what I think will happensay so it's your first thing, colonies 100%,

(14:22):
there's definitely going to be one company thatI'm super, super excited for is Varda Varda
Space, right?
Varda Space Industries absolutely love thatcompany.
It's so cool.
For those of you who don't know, they're doingspace manufacturing.
So they're putting factories in orbit.
Because in sort of like this, this low gravityor zero gravity environment, you get access to
so many sort of app, so many different, likesort of capabilities in terms of manufacturing,

(14:45):
right at the atomic level and, you know, in amicrogravity environment.
And so Varda, they're doing incredibly, it'sabsolutely sci fi sounding things where they're
putting factories up there.
And I think I, that's just the beginning,right?
Because, you know, one factory will lead toanother which will lead to, you know, whole
other, you know, sort of, you know, groups of,you know, like things that go to commercial

(15:06):
space.
And, you know, I came across this one company,They're literally putting data centers in
space, right connected by photonics, They'relike everyone just putting something in space
for, you know, whatever capabilities andwhatever benefits that comes to from that.
So, you know, tons of industries will go tospace.
And I've even seen lunar manufacturingcompanies like literally like they want to
build factories on the moon.

(15:27):
And yeah, that's probably like the boldestcompany I could think of.
And yeah, people are actually working on it.
It's not just like, you know, it is definitelylike heavily, heavily research faces at the
moment.
But the founder does have relatively clear planfor going about that.
So again, really, really cool stuff.
And with BARDA, how are they manufactured?

(15:48):
Are they doing three d printing?
So they're just printing And what are theyprinting?
They're printing satellites and probes or
all kinds
of things?
Not necessarily actually.
So far to what they're doing.
So they put these basically put these factoriesin orbit.
Yeah.
And so it's gonna be fully autonomous.
There's there's no humans in these things inthese factories.

(16:08):
But I'm doing, you know, whatever, whatever,basically, like, whatever it is, like, some
product, right, some company on Earth, if theyneed products to be made in this microgravity
environment, right?
So there's so many examples of fiber optics.
Fiber optics is their first sort of thing thatthey're going to do.
But they also do, you know, semiconductors,they could print organs, do pharmaceuticals,

(16:29):
proteins, things with proteins and stuff.
So there's biotech applications, yeah,telecommunications, applications, yeah,
computing, whatever it be, right.
So there's a whole different, know, so manythings they could do and sort of this this
microgravity environment.
And so the first thing that they're doing istelecommunications, right, fiber optics.
And so, you know, said company, we'll we'll,you know, ask for like, hey, like, they want to

(16:50):
produce these these fiber optics in thismicroarray environment, because it comes with,
you know, exponential sort of, you know, betterbenefits.
And I forgot what exactly, but it was it'sworth the sort of the cost of, know, going to
space whatnot.
And so, you know, they say the VARTA, right,make these in, you know, in sort of this
microenvironment.
So send a transfer vehicle up, they make it inthe factory, they bring it down and that's sort

(17:13):
of how they, how they, you know, they sellthings and whatnot.
So there's still like an up and down processwhere you do need transfer vehicles and
whatnot.
Yeah, it is sort of like an autonomous sort ofmanufacturing process inside this capsule or
whatever.
So there's multiple multiple applications.
And Yeah.
I think when there's no gravity, I thinkthere's benefits to to just creating certain

(17:36):
things because
Yeah.
Just gravity in general can just create a lotof complexities on Earth about we manufacture
things.
Right?
So Yeah.
And then, I think all we really need to do, ifwe really wanna think about deep tech, just
think about each company that Elon Musk isbuilding.
Right?
So we just talked about space.
We just talked about autonomous.
Right?
I think the only other thing is really likeNeuralink.

(17:59):
So I think you kind of started talking aboutthat with Control Labs.
What do you think the next generation of theconnected human is?
Do you think it's devices that you you thinkit's ever gonna be safe to implant anything in
your brain?
Or is it just better to kinda keep thatseparate?

(18:19):
I mean, they're already doing that withNeuralink, I believe, right?
With the pigs.
I don't know if you saw that demo.
Did.
Do you feel that that will be in our lifetimeat some point, just plugging into actual
brains?
I think, I don't know if you've ever followedKurzweil, but Kurzweil predicted all of this
stuff like twenty years ago.

(18:41):
Yeah, He he was saying that, obviously, if youwant to look up something on Wikipedia, instead
of Googling it, it'll just be kind of anextension of your brain.
And you could just call it like an API.
But do you feel that'll happen in our lifetime,considering that now that we're already doing
that in pigs?
Yeah, yeah, of course.

(19:01):
So the way I think about it is a 100%, I thinkit'll happen within our lifetime, but I'm, I'm
more hopeful and sort of, you know, I thinkwhat I'm is actually non invasive sort of, you
know, connecting right technology with with ourour bodies and, you know, you're like,
obviously is invasive, right?
They're they're putting something directly intoyour brain.
Things like Control Labs and this other companythat I actually know the founder of Adam Limbs,

(19:24):
if you're familiar with them.
They're they're they're doing mind controlledbionics.
Right?
So like, literally, like, like, you know, ifsomething like an amputee, for example, right,
they they have all these demo videos,
like Mhmm.
They have an amputee.
He lost his arm.
Right?
But he they literally give him, you know, fullfully functioned arm, you know, obviously, you
know, metal sort of, you know, whatever maybe,but he could, you know, he as long as he has

(19:47):
the intent of whatever action like it actuallyacts upon.
And so it was really, really cool.
Giving this guy like his arm back, It's prettycrazy.
Yeah, I'm checking it out.
It's pretty cool.
So I guess what would that tech be?
So would it just connect somehow externally toyour brain waves?
Yeah, Okay.
That's the thing.
It's non invasive and I just think it I'm morelong non invasive sort of things in terms of

(20:11):
combining humans and tech as opposed toinvasive things.
But nonetheless, I think invasive things likeNeuralink, it'll definitely happen, but I can't
tell you the pros and cons of those.
I guess we got to wait and see what happensbecause I guess if we could only speculate at
this point, but yeah.
Yeah.
And how do you guys vet these companies?

(20:34):
What are some things that differentiate some ofthe companies when you're evaluating them?
Obviously, in my mind, when I look at deeptech, I just look at the high-tech barrier and
the competitors.
But are there any other best practices orframeworks to look at deep tech and just do it
in a better process processed way, I guess?

(20:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Of course.
So so, yeah, obviously, every every VC saysthis, but, like, the team is so important.
I think it's even more important for deep techcompanies.
And, you know, what I mean by that is, like, inin terms of, you know, software or consumer or
whatever may be, like, there's, you know,thousands of people, if not, know, millions or
whatever that can that can do said product,right?
Everyone has some level of talent, right?

(21:17):
They could they could probably make it probablycopy it.
In terms of deep tech, not many people canmake, you know, whatever sort of innovation
breakthrough, whatever it is, in sort of thatrealm, right, there's a very limited amount of
PhDs, very limited amount of people whoactually have the deep, deep, you know, domain
specific knowledge and again, whatever field itmay be.
And so that's also that's, it's an advantage tosome extent.

(21:39):
But it also means that like, alright, like youhave to find and you can and you have to find
the right team in the entire world to make thisproduct.
And so that's definitely like one of theirtheir their things that Lux really, really sort
of considers, right, has to be the right team.
Yeah.
And then after that, you know, they like peoplewith chips on their shoulders, right?
That's one of Josh's favorite lines.

(22:00):
Like he likes people with, you know, that havesome sort of have something sort of broken
inside them that that that they use as sort ofmotivation.
And, and he really likes to look at the findthe founder psychology is what I'm trying to
say.
So, know, you have the team, right?
You have the founders themselves and, and, and,know, their psychology and their drive and
whatnot.
At the end of the day, like then, you know,then it's the usual stuff, right?
Does a product work?
Like, like, does this technology work?

(22:21):
Or will it work within five to ten years or so?
Obviously, you know, with deep tech, you havelonger timeframes.
And so, yeah, will the will the product work?
Right?
Is the market, you know, big enough, right?
Can they wedge your way into it and stuff?
So then you get to some more of the typicalstuff, but I would say just for deep tech
specific things, the the team and sort of, youknow, how to commercialize said technology,
that's probably the biggest it's the biggestsort of considerations.

(22:45):
Yeah.
And when you say chip on their shoulder, do youhave kinda like a general example that that we
could reference?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, there's so many founders who come frombeing poor, you know, poor families, you know,
people with, you know, maybe their parents weredivorced.
You know, maybe they were bullied as a kid.
There are, you know, there's so many so manyexamples I could think of.

(23:08):
I mean, Josh himself, right?
Like he comes from a poor family, right?
And sort of Coney Island, like, that's how thestory goes.
And so, yeah, he made it all the way to work hegives it because he had that chip on his
shoulder because, know, he he wanted to sortof, you know, not be not before right at the
end.
And so that's why he's, you know, he's where heis.
There's some founders I could think of.
I don't know if they would be wanting me to,you know, say their names, but I like, you

(23:31):
know, like, like some of them, you know, theyagain, they come from maybe their their parents
were divorced and how they got a roughchildhood and stuff.
And so they want to care for said populationor, you know, whatever, because of the
upbringing or, you know, people who, oh, I wantthe one thing that's, that's mostly popular,
like people who die from, you know, whateverdisease or maybe maybe a loved one.
And so, know, these people, go on to make drugdiscovery companies.

(23:52):
Right?
It's just so cool.
Like like, well, it's not cool that, you know,they have to do that.
But like, again, like, that's why they're soinspired to, you know, make up this absolute
moonshot company.
Right?
Jobs
Yeah.
I think another good example is One Drop.
So I think that company, I think the guy haddiabetes.
And then One Drop, it's like a hardware devicethat
Okay.
I think it it can detect diabetes and it'sconnected to an app and he pretty much built

(24:16):
that for himself pretty much.
But I think you're right.
I think a lot of people build things becausemaybe they had a family member that
Yeah.
From some type of disease or even just, youknow, was looking at like this sleep therapy
app and it's for parents that can't get theirkids to sleep.
So if you can build I think some of the bestbusinesses are ones that solve true problems.

(24:38):
And then ideally, if you use it yourself allthe time, then I guess that's a good good
testament of a product market fit.
Hopefully everybody else likes it too and justnot you.
Yeah.
And then as far as traction, right?
I think with me and tell me what you'veexperienced, but with deep tech sometimes what
I struggle with is know, there's tons and tonsof pilots.

(24:59):
Right?
So really cool tech, you're working with likeUPS.
Right?
And UPS is like, hey, we'll we'll check outyour robotic technology as a six month pilot,
but we don't know if we're gonna commit to along term project.
So I sometimes I see it as a red flag ifthere's multiple pilots, but they never really
convert.
And they have multiple concurrent pilots aswell.

(25:19):
But I guess any other things that you've seenas red flags as far as traction with deep tech
for outside of just pilots and and notconverting to long term contracts?
Yeah.
I mean, the first thing that comes to my mindis sort of like the commercialization process.
Like, if it's not able to get out of that.
Right?
And again, there it could be it could mean in,you know, in biotech, right, or with the FDA or

(25:44):
whatever may be, right.
Any sort of, know, DARPA or any sort oforganization, like if it's not, you know, if
you can't make a business out of it at the endof the day, like, like, it's not, you know,
it's not worth investing into.
And so, you know, lot, I feel like lots ofpeople sort of, you know, that are trying to
invest into deep tech, they sort of, it's like,I forgot the term.
Oh, like shiny object syndrome.

(26:06):
That's what some people call it, right?
Like it's super cool, right?
All these sci fi sounding things, but peoplesort of, know, get, get, get sort of dragged
into, you know, the sort of this, this loftygoal.
And at the end of the day, like, it, is thetechnology gonna work?
Right?
Is it realistic?
And it, know, actually make a business out ofit?
Like that's sort of questionable.
And so one of the most simplest checks that,you know, sort of like that I learned in terms

(26:27):
of seeing if it's company will will dosomething good, right?
Is simply asking like, does it does it work?
Right?
And, you'll be surprised, like, how how manytimes, like, you just ask yourself that and
what you're like, wait, like, that probably itwill not work.
Or or, like, you know, they're they're notmaking an abstraction because of, you know,
whatever reason.
And so, again, does it does it work?
Right?
Does the market actually want it?

(26:48):
Right?
Do they need stuff?
And so just ask that simple question.
Honestly, I made so many decisions, yeah, clearfor for the Lux team.
It was kinda funny hearing the stories, butyeah.
And I would say sometimes in the spacecompanies, you know, the launches some of these
rocket companies, right, the space the actuallaunch is like just two years away still.
So Yeah.
So essentially doesn't work as they wouldn'teven build it yet.

(27:10):
Yeah.
But I think I like like nerding out on space.
So
Mhmm.
Do you think you could unpack space for us alittle bit?
So there's launch, there's there's satellitesthat go out.
There's different, you know, material scienceswhere people can manufacture different
equipment.
So do you think you can help us maybe unpackthe space industry and just kind of some of the

(27:32):
segments that that would be good to kind ofthink of as as you're looking at space as an
investor?
Yeah, yeah, of course.
So again, by by no means, am I an expert, butthings that I've come across in terms of, you
know, of, you know, broader sort of themes.
Yeah.
There's definitely alright.
So you need something to go up and down, right?
So need transfer vehicles.
Lot you need, you know, launch launch sort ofcapabilities, you need pro pro propulsion

(27:55):
companies.
So that's like three right there, right?
Propulsion launch, and then sort of transfervehicles.
Then you have sort of actually infrastructurein space, right?
So again, satellites, factories, like literalliteral factories, data centers, I've seen so
just like any any sort of things that are interms of like infrastructure for, you know, for

(28:15):
on earth applications, but it just, you know,for whatever reason that they're that they're
in space, like, that's why they're there.
And then I would say, after that would be sortof the deep space exploration stuff, right?
I've seen asteroid mining companies, yeah, moonmining companies.
Again, moon manufacturing, things like that'swhat I mentioned before.
So anything that that's sort sorting andnavigate deep space.

(28:38):
So I actually, I just thought of at the moment,but you have, you know, sort of on earth
applications, deep space applications, and sortof like the the things that sort of bridging
those two together and allowing for otherthings to happen.
Sure.
Hence the hence the arm arms dealer sort ofmetaphor before.
But but yeah, I would say those three sort ofthemes are probably like the the main ones.
And, you know, is asteroid mining prettypopular now?

(29:01):
I guess, is there I I guess, what are the mainminerals that people are finding of value?
And and I guess how do they do that?
They just go around and find the asteroids andand try to crash crash them and try to pull
some type of valuable minerals from there or?
Admittedly, I have no clue.
I've seen those I've seen those companies.
I mean, they're they're sci fi center.
They're super cool.
But like, honestly, I would not invest intothose at this moment, you know, this day and

(29:24):
age.
But nonetheless, I've I've just I've seen themaround.
Yeah.
We'd actually consider them now.
Yeah.
And what would be the application of doinganything on the moon?
I guess, is it just yeah.
What would be the what would be the benefits ofgoing out there?
Purely colonization.
Like like the the the founder I'm thinking of,right, that that's actually working in that
space.

(29:45):
Yeah.
He wants to go to Mars.
Right?
And so he's thinking about the moon as sort oflike this this like a topic.
Almost yeah, yeah, yeah.
First milestone or whatever may be.
And so, you know, if you can make it like a setup like a factory that right like a three d
printing factory, he could make theinfrastructure right, commercialize that I
don't know how he has a plan for it.

(30:06):
So so, yeah, I'll I'll I'll have luck in theworld to him.
But yeah.
So but, like, his honestly, goal is so you cango to Mars.
Like Sure.
He's even thinking further than that.
So so yeah.
And then with, you know, with Starlink, is ityeah.
Starlink.
Right?
So the the the beaming Internet fromsatellites.
Do you think have you gone deep on that as faras that technology?

(30:27):
And do you think that will eventually be justas viable as, you know, fiber optics?
Or is that just another option?
I guess I don't know if you guys have beenlooking at that deeply and specifically what
Elon is doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I know.
I mean, in terms of Lux, like we were investedin.

(30:50):
No, we're in some sort of like satellitecompanies, but but not, I don't think internet
stuff.
If I'm not mistaken, I don't think we have anyof those.
I know sort of like the in recent news, the oneGoogle X project that that sort of failed.
Right?
Yeah.
The one that was trying to do shots to yourballoons and and and WiFi and and initial
Internet connections
Yeah.
Sort of in in that regard.
I know there's another company I think calledAstronis, if I'm not mistaken, like, they're

(31:13):
doing also Mhmm.
You know, satellites with, know, beaming downinternet and whatnot.
I mean, by all means, that's probably one ofthe most impactful things that we could do in
this day and age.
Obviously there's, it's tough to do that.
There's so much complexity but to I think, Ithink it'll definitely happen.
I mean, you know, if you think about it, right?
Like all the sort of the populations in theworld that just don't have access to the

(31:37):
internet, right?
They don't, that means they don't have accessto education or, you know, access to, you know,
said resources and whatever it may I mean, likeif we could give them internet, like think of
just, you know, the sheer impact that that canhave.
But yeah, but nonetheless, I don't have anysort of technical sort of expertise in that
realm.
But it's definitely pretty cool to see.
Yeah, I've been doing a little bit of research,but I haven't really gone deep and just doing a

(31:59):
quick search as you were chatting, and I thinkit'll be something that'll probably supplement
five gs, but, you know, maybe down the line, itcould be, you know, a replacement.
But I mean, that could be really scalable too,right?
You don't really have to do anything.
It's just all the satellites automatically bebeaming it.
So, that could democratize just access to theInternet.
But I think the incumbents would still controlthat.

(32:23):
I don't think Comcast is gonna let or Comcastdoes some type of revenue share or something,
but they're not I don't think they would allowthemselves to be boxed out.
I mean, I think Mhmm.
I see that today.
So, like, if you if you've tried to cut thecable Mhmm.
Cape like, if you actually buy cable, it's,like, the same price.
Because what they'll do is they'll increase theInternet only option by, like, 10 to $10.15

(32:47):
dollars every every year.
So I when I pay for cable, it's almost likepretty close to what it cost to actually have
cable.
They
they get you somehow, you know?
Yeah.
That's true.
Yeah.
And then with deep tech, I guess, as you guysdevelop new investment theses, how do you guys

(33:09):
go deep on some of these topics?
Do you spend time with universities, partnerwith different labs to get some proprietary
deal flow?
Any any tips on just finding great deal flow asa as an investor going going into deep tech?
Yeah.
Yeah, of course.
So, you know, one one thing that Lux likes tosay is that they look where others don't.

(33:32):
Right?
And so one honestly, like, I don't knowspecifics because they haven't even told me.
But they like they got a lot of lots of soliddeal flow from from universities that people
just wouldn't consider, right, maybe they'renot top universities, but nonetheless, like,
they're putting out good research.
And so they've they've looked at universitythat are sort of overlooked and in terms of
your traditional VCs and whatnot, and so muchdeal flow came from that.

(33:56):
But yeah, would say it's definitely they theythey got, like, solid, solid returns from those
that are, you know, they they they breakthrough the commercialization process.
Right?
They they sort of incubate and whatnot.
But, you know, all the things that they theystart in universities.
And so, you know, looking looking for the rightteams there, the right the right technology,
right right products, you know, partnering withtech tech transfer offices, whatever it may be,

(34:17):
like, it's usually the ones that start inuniversities that that really go far.
So yeah.
Yeah.
That's a good point.
So I guess for the the audience.
Right?
So tech transfer, usually the the platforms ortechnologies that are built, they're not a
business yet.
Right?
They're just kind of some type of patent.
But then sometimes somebody has to come in andturn it into a real business.

(34:39):
So they need to probably recruit like a CEO orsomething like that.
But, know, to be good at deep tech as a VC,you'd have to probably understand the viability
of like that patent and like probably not be avisionary to think, hey, you know what, this
could actually be a business.
Right now it's a microchip or it's ananoparticle.

(34:59):
But this could be some type of business.
But I guess, is it on the VC to still helpbring that team together?
If they're incubating it, is it incubating withthe university?
Or is the VC also kind of really hands on andhelping it to turn into a business?
Or is that the Yeah.
On that?
I've honestly I've seen both.
I know some of our partners, one of the I'mthinking of Zavindar, one of the partners.

(35:26):
I I saw I forgot for which company, but he'slike the founding investor for a company.
I I forgot which one it was one of theportfolio companies, but he, you know, he was
really integral to it early on.
But then, you know, obviously, when they whenthey scale, when they grow, then then
obviously, he takes some more, you know, bird'seye view sort of, you know, I think he's on the
board of it now.
But nonetheless, like, was considered the thefounding investor in the beginning.
That's like, you know, one example I've seen.

(35:48):
Yeah.
I've I've seen, you know, the the researchersat universities, you know, who make the
research goes on to be commercialized, likethey become, you know, the founder of the
company and sort of, you know, Lux would helpthem out, right?
With the with the business side of things,right?
Because obviously, you know, maybe that's notwhere their expertise lies.
And so so that's like another example.
I've seen even like Lux, like even like in somesome cases, they come up with the idea.

(36:13):
Like they come with an idea, they make theteam, make everything.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wanted one of the companies that they didthat for is Variant Bio.
So that's a really cool company.
Basically, they they had the thesis.
Right?
Like, sort of like if if you know X Men andCerebro, right, how Cerebro can find all these
people with superpowers and all these mutants.

(36:33):
So, you know, taking that taking that idea,right?
Like they thought like, oh, like, what if theycould find a way to sort of, you know, identify
all these genetic outliers in the world?
And, you know, you know, make sort of taketheir superpowers almost right, obviously,
ethical way with a respect for diversity, youknow, with respect for ethics and whatnot.
But, so they doubt about it, there's, you know,for example, there's there's populations in

(36:55):
maybe like high altitude areas, right?
Their lungs are better, right?
So you can make maybe like, you know, drugs outof that, or they identified this one, one
population, you know, they're immune tomalaria.
So maybe you could, you know, make a drug for,you know, anti malaria, you know, some some
populations, right, genetic outliers, but, youknow, stronger bones, maybe you could do
something there.
Some some have, you know, their theirmetabolism spikes when they sleep at night.

(37:17):
So theoretically, that could be like a fat lossdrug when you're sleeping.
Like the market on that is insane.
Everyone wants to, you know, lose weight andstuff.
So there's, yeah, it's crazy.
So, you know, they, they take all theseoutliers.
Right.
And, you know, they, they, they try to sort of,know, make therapeutics out of them.
But what I love about variant and, you know,not to go on a tangent, just like, well, what I
really, really like about them is that theyhave the utmost respect for, you know, for for

(37:37):
diversity, right, for for culture andeverything.
They they they learn these people's, you know,their practices or traditions or religions,
like everything.
And they highly respect it.
And they do so in a really ethical way.
And so, you know, they're not taking advantageof these populations, you know, they get the
permission to, you know, sort harness theirsuperpowers at the end of it.
So I just think it's really cool.
This is an example of like, know, wisecompanies, right, sort of heroic companies that

(37:58):
that, you know, hopefully, we can make more ofat the end of day.
Yeah.
This is this is another tangent to add to thetangents that we've already gone on.
Yeah.
But there's like there's a Keanu Reeves movie.
I think it's like a two like, rated two stars.
Oh.
But I thought it was amazing.
So Keanu, he and this is like recent too.

(38:19):
It's not too old of a movie, but he kills hishe he works at like this genetics company.
And what they do is they they can take people'sconscience and, upload it into a new body.
So his his whole family dies in, like, a reallybad accident.
And because he was working at that place, hereally knew all the secrets of how they were

(38:41):
able to take people's consciences and uploadthem into brand new bodies.
So he pretty much grew like a clone of hiswhole family.
So his wife and his kids pretty much in thisvessel in his basement.
And I guess when you're cloning the body justkind of accelerates and grows really fast into

(39:04):
like a full body.
So he pretty much cloned his family and theninjected his the conscience of his family.
And like they all just didn't really theydidn't know the difference when they all woke
up.
But later on, I think there was a reallyinteresting scene because there was an older
person that died and then that person came backand was like in a younger body.

(39:27):
So for me, I think that's like really crazy,being able to maintain pretty much immortality,
right, if you can maintain your consciencesomehow.
But after seeing that video with Neuralink, itjust makes me think that could be something
that you can do.
I've invested in like lab grown meat.
So I think now you can use bioreactors topretty much grow any type of bone mass or or

(39:54):
flesh.
So if you had the the right technology, youcould pretty and you and they have cloned human
beings before.
I'm not sure if they've formally cloned humanbeing, but I know they cloned animals and body
parts and stuff like that.
Yeah.
So I don't know what you think about that asfar as just life extension.

(40:14):
So that's a good one.
So what I mentioned was one piece of it, butthen longevity is a whole other sector.
Oh yeah.
There's different drugs that you can take thathave been proven to extend your life by five to
ten years, because I think there's pathways inyour body.
And there are ways now that people are lookinginto that, but I don't know if you guys have

(40:38):
looked at that at all.
And if you have, if there's any interestingthings that you're saying that would be helpful
to share.
Yeah, yeah, of course.
So, I actually, one of the, one of the partnersof this most of the bio things, Goldberg, yeah,
he said that they don't really look intolongevity too much.

(40:59):
They're they're just a little bit skepticalabout it.
They they do I think we do have one, like,remotely longevity esque kind of company, but
that was through because it was through one ofour other portfolio companies.
They they vouch for them and, you know, theythey sort of trust their judgment and whatnot.
But Mhmm.
Yeah.
For the most part, we don't we don't have anysort of longevity things besides that one.
So, I mean, I I don't know.

(41:20):
Like like, it's it's one of those things like,I I guess they relate to, like, somebody like
quantum or whatever, like, there's a lot of,you know, a lot of noise, right?
A lot of people, you know, it's really, reallycool.
By all means, they want it to happen, but Idon't know if it'll happen, you know, at the
moment.
But again, nonetheless, like, everyone's like,that's one thing, like, like, we we everyone
wants to see that.
And so I'm actually speaking to a long journeycoming next week actually.

(41:41):
So it was pretty cool.
Like they're doing MRN, our mRNA based like,like telomere extension, right?
So like telomeres are getting cells and stuffbasically that they determine like, you know,
how long your cells live.
And thus, you know, when those telomeres, ifI'm not mistaken, I'm not, I'm the bio guy, but
I'm actually reading it and and say like, youknow, once those telomeres sort of, know, sure,

(42:02):
and then sort of, yeah, I don't know,disintegrate or whatever, maybe your cells die.
Basically, that's when like, yeah, that's whenpeople say, I think, like, dying by natural
death, I think that's what it, you know, kindameans.
Oh, sorry.
If I'm if I'm not mistaken, like, I'm I'm afinance major, guys.
Like, I'm I'm not a bio major.
Like, don't get me I don't don't quote me onthat.
But, honestly, they're doing something with,like, telomere extension or something like

(42:23):
that.
And so it's really, really cool.
I mean, I'm down to look more into diligencethat, but for the most part, yeah, they haven't
done much longevity.
Yeah.
No.
That's great.
Well, we got like fifteen minutes, we'd love tokeep it interactive.
So anybody have any questions on deep tech andhow to just be a good VC when it comes to

(42:44):
evaluating technology?
Yeah, I had a question.
First of all, thank you for taking the time outto come speak to us because honestly, I've
learned a lot so far.
Did not really know much about Deep Space justgoing into this, so I've learned a lot.
But as far as just general company evaluationand stepping away too from, I guess we could

(43:08):
talk quantitatively, but really what are someof the things that you guys are looking at in
these arms dealers at that intersection ofimpossible and inevitable?
I really like that.
But what do you guys look for in these armsdealer?
So outside of the inelastic demand in theindustry, outside of the opportunity in the

(43:28):
market being large, are there any other thingsthat you look for?
For example, you know, maybe, I guess, like,stickiness of the product ecosystem that they
have or, like, recurring revenues or whatever.
You know?
What what are some of the other metrics thatyou guys look at to judge the quality of these
companies?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Of course.
So admittedly, I was only I'm I've only been atLux for five months.

(43:51):
So so I haven't had too much experience in inin terms of, yeah, long term, like, you know,
what to look for.
But nonetheless, like, I would say, you know, alot of people think that, you know, deep tech
and whatnot, it's it's sort of this thisdifferent, you know, animal in terms of, know,
comparing to, you know, regular or normal techcompanies, but I would say, you know, most of
the metrics are relatively similar.
Obviously, it is different context, you know,different way different products or different,

(44:14):
know, sort of, know, technology and whatnot.
But, yeah, I mean, yeah, you know, the usualstuff, right?
Obviously, you know, recurring revenue, right?
That's you need that, right?
Like, you know, that no matter what, know, nomatter what sort of technology or whatever may
be like you need, you know, you need revenue,right?
You need sort of, you know, again, yeah,sickening as I mentioned, right?
You need all these things like, you know, thethe market, how they're wedging their way into

(44:34):
it.
You know, defensibility.
I mean, that's one thing that they really,really like defensibility sort of, how do they
build moats?
How do they sort of have that that long termcompetitive advantage?
You know, is it network effects or, or, youknow, being embedded or whatever that, you
know, defense abilities, you know, various onesare, you know, things like that.
So I I would definitely say, like, it's thewhile there are different metrics for deep tech

(44:56):
companies, I would say for for the most part,like, they're they're kind of the same.
But for luck specifically, like one thing,yeah, I was saying before, right, like a couple
of things that they look for specifically, I'mnot I've seen them, you know, ask for directly.
It's just like, you know, the team, thetechnology work and sort of is it is it sort of
your long term defensible in terms of theemotes and all that So those three things I
would say are probably key in terms of whatBlux looks for.

(45:20):
Cool, that's helpful.
Thank you.
Hey Rahul, congrats on your new role.
And this is, I really enjoyed your conversationhere.
I had a question.
So I am in Houston, Texas, a lot of energy.
So in terms of ESG and ultimate energy and thatsort of thing, what kind of deep tech solutions

(45:41):
are you guys looking at?
And what's the interest?
And just in context, Texas just, I'm literallyliving through crisis mode here.
We have two days no car, no internet.
So obviously the answer is not just alternateor not just conventional.
So what are you guys kind of looking at in thatspace?
Yeah, I mean, first of you're staying safe andeverything.

(46:03):
But yeah,
We just got far back.
So thank you.
Oh, that's good.
Okay.
But yeah, yeah.
So to my knowledge, I don't think Lux hasinvested in too many energy companies.
I think there's a few.
One one that I am thinking of is Curion.
So so this is like another sort of, you know,Lux sort of incubated company.
They they this was like ten this is like tenyears ago too.

(46:23):
So it's it's not it's nothing new, but theyincubate Curian sort of in house, it was really
cool.
They basically do nuclear waste management.
And there's this whole sorting of sciencebehind it was really, really cool.
But nonetheless, like, what was the major eventin Japan, the the big nuclear meltdown or
whatever in I'm drawing a blank.

(46:45):
The major event, I think, like, 2011 happenedthere or so.
And France, they've had issues with nuclearwaste.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So again, this was the company that actuallywent and cleaned all that waste up.
Right?
So so they're doing some, like, really, reallycool stuff.
And regards with that, it was it was acquired,I think, six, seven years ago.
So so it is an an older example.

(47:07):
But for the most part, to be honest, I can'tthink of any at the moment.
I know there's some really, really cool thingsaround like fusion.
Obviously, everyone's sort of hoping thatthat's already happens sometime soon.
I know there's, there's entire VC firms thatare investing in solely into, you know, fusion
sort of applications and whatnot, which ispretty crazy.

(47:28):
But yeah, I would say, Lux, I don't think ithas been one of the biggest sort of, you know,
areas we've looked into, but there there's afew of them.
There's yeah.
I'll look into that for sure.
Okay.
Great.
Mhmm.
Nice talking to you.
Good questions.
Any any other ones?

(47:49):
Going once, going twice.
One thing that I always ask because the speakerkinda towards the end is any type of life
advice.
I think you've shared a lot of really helpfulnuggets, but just anything from a mentor that
kind of has stuck with you that you'd like toleave with us?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, if there's one line I live my life by,it's just maximize serendipity.

(48:14):
And honestly, that one line, it really, reallyjust like changed how, the way I look.
Yeah.
Just like, take, you know, go about life andstuff.
Mean, you know, maximizing serendipity, whetherthat means being active on Twitter, right?
Tweeting things, Keeping your DMs open.
Mean, there's so much serendipity that happenedand just, you know, people just messaging me
and, you know, into deal flow or just, like,you know, people working on some awesome

(48:35):
things.
So that's, like, one thing I do.
Again, you know, no matter what I do, justlike, I I I try to, you know, maximize how many
sort of, you know I I try to make luck cometowards me if that makes sense.
Right?
And that's sort of how I go about things.
Many again, I wrote a book out of aserendipitous conversation.
Right?
Like, that's what I mean.
And so and that fundamentally changed my entirelife.

(48:56):
And so I would if I were to say anything, it'sjust like maximize serendipity and today as
much as possible.
That's really helpful.
And I think that's a perfect you know, thiswhole story is a perfect example because I mean
Yeah.
Mhmm.
You met that person, you know, and that kindathat person kinda took you on as a mentor, but
you weren't thinking about joining Lux at thetime.
You just interviewed Lux as an interviewer andthen you never would have known that that would

(49:21):
have been a career.
I guess that's really, really good advice.
I appreciate you sharing that.
Hey, Joe, Raul, can you guys hear me?
Yeah.
Hey, Raul.
I had a question, I was trying to unmute myphone.
So one of the questions Rahul for you is, whenyou look at these deep tech companies and most

(49:41):
of the companies, they have like team of PhDsstill working on the ideas and all, do you guys
pick up investments during the like seed stage,pre seed stage in those categories?
Or you guys still wait till they have somesigns of revenue and commercialization?

(50:02):
Yeah, so I think like one of those things, soshort answer, yeah, we some seed, mostly A, and
very, very little pre seed.
Most of the the incubated companies that'sthat's obviously and those are considered pre
seed.
But for the most part, we don't do the preseed.
But, yeah, mostly c and a, obviously, ourprimary.
And we have a growth fund as well.

(50:22):
So we just did like a recently just like a d, aseries d.
So nonetheless, yeah, short answer is that.
But I would say it definitely, it dependsacross deep tech firms based on how long
they've been around.
Right?
So again, Lux has been here for twenty years.
And so that's how they're, you know, slowlythey've made their way to, you know, from the,
I mean, they started with, know, pre seed redseed and sort of that side.

(50:46):
But then, know, as time went on, as they gotbigger funds and whatnot, you know, they went
to sort of the end, you know, they're doingsome Bs and stuff.
And so I've seen, you know, deep techcompanies, they do only precede.
One of my good friends, he's a he's a precededeep tech investor, that that's totally what
they do.
I've seen I mean, I've seen even deep techangels, right?
So so even even earlier, right?

(51:06):
That's literally to they only had a good ideaphase at that point.
But yeah, I would say, you know, it varies bythe size of the firm and everything.
But for luck, specifically, it's mostly seed,think.
Seed to be is what I would say is most of thestuff sales.
Yeah.
Cool.
Good question.
And, you know, with with series a, you know,with deep tech, it's pretty common to to have

(51:33):
the company still be pre revenue, I'm assuming.
Yeah.
Because I mean, they're just little I mean, alot of the the big dynamic with deep tech is a
lot of the money is still going into researchand development.
And I mean, commercialization really depends onif they can hit the milestones that they said
they can achieve.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cool.
Great.
Anything else guys?

(51:55):
Any more questions?
I think I have a quick question.
I actually just bought your book on Amazonright Oh,
thank you.
So just to go back and you maybe forgive me ifyou already talked about it, like what inspired
you to write the book, but like what was theprocess of you writing that book, Making
Moonshot?
Yeah.

(52:15):
Yeah.
Of course.
So alright.
So it started back in January 2020.
So so a little bit over a year ago.
But yeah.
Yeah.
So basically, how I started is I I first laiddown, you know, the research process.
Obviously, that's what's important.
Again, I was a this non expert.
Right?
I was not an expert by any means.
And so I had to become an expert.
Right?
And so, again, that was, you know, that I hadto drastically improve my content intake.

(52:40):
Right?
Read all, know, whatever I, you know, read orvideos I watch or podcasts I listen to, like, I
made sure it was, you know, high quality ones,was it was it was actually helpful.
And so that was really, really important, justlike improving that content intake.
Then doing research, right, in terms of, youknow, looking at stories, of moonshot
companies, you know, profiling the founders,profiling, you know, reading into their company

(53:00):
history and stuff, you know, finding all these,these, these commonalities and sort of the
similarities amongst all these stories.
And then I would say the biggest thing wasdoing interviews.
Again, I was an expert, right?
So I had to use other people's stories andwhatnot.
So I think I conducted over over 100 interviewseasily.
Again, all these VC, big time VCs, founders,researchers, some people in government, and so

(53:24):
forth, and some PhDs as well.
So that was probably like the most fruitfulthing that I got so many stories, so many cool
insights from that.
Then, you know, it was just a matter of, youknow, putting it all into like a digestible
sort of entertaining manner.
Right?
So, know, I I not only do that, but, you know,sort of related to the past sort of, you know,
things in history and, you know, all these coolthings.

(53:44):
Right?
I I tried to what I want to do is like, I didnot want it be a boring business book, to be
honest, I want it to be something dynamic,right?
Something that's interesting.
And so that's why I chose right?
Mindsets, philosophies, strategies, thenecosystems around deep tech, right?
I didn't strike, you know, strictly just do,oh, you know, how to start a company.
Right?
There's so many resources on that.
I'm not I'm not I'm not wanting to tell you howto start a company.

(54:05):
But that will how how to get, you know, get getstarted on the sort of whatever it may be.
But in terms of, know, how to make moonshots,or how to get started on the on the process,
right?
What's the what, you know, what's the sort oflike those foundational things?
How can we inspire more of these, from anecosystem level, like all these things?
That's what I really wrote about.
And so, yeah, yeah.
So, you know, around summer, I would say iswhen I sort of got to like, you know, like a

(54:27):
working, you know, solid manuscript, you know,tons and tons of revisions after that whole
process, I'm getting feedback from all thepeople I interviewed, you know, did that for a
couple of months.
And so by October, a couple of months ago, byOctober, that's when I finally had like a final
draft that I think I, I rewrote my book bythree times by by October.
And so, yeah, that was mostly the process.

(54:48):
And then after that, we came up the fun stuff.
I cover design, you know, getting quotes andstuff.
Was all cool.
But In terms of the actual work, it sort ofended in October.
So yeah.
And what are the legal things that you need tothink about?
So if you if you reference, a podcast, right,are you allowed to do that as long as it's
publicly available?

(55:08):
Or do you have to also, like, formally getpermission from them?
So like for me, right, so I have like tons ofYouTube videos, like, pretty much of stuff like
this.
Right?
So could I just take the transcript and turnthat into a book or is it best practice to ask
permission and get it like in writing?
I guess, what are some creative control orcopyright things that maybe you learned.

(55:33):
Right?
Yeah.
Actually, I mean, for the most obviously, theygive you a credit from a different source.
You have to cite it.
So Yeah.
Yeah.
I I have a whole appendix and whatnot with allthe citations and stuff.
But Mhmm.
Actually one thing I learned.
So I I didn't even know this prior prior to it.
But if if I'm not mistaken and again, don'tquote me on this, but I I'm pretty sure I'm

(55:53):
right.
If you're speaking to someone, like like on aZoom call, for example, or or somewhere like
that, if they say it to you, you don't have tocite them.
There there's, like, some, like, limits tothat.
I forgot.
Yeah.
Forgot what the exact thing was.
But for example, like, like, if you're goingto, you know, all your YouTube videos, you
know, make a transfer and write a book out ofit.
Like, I'm pretty sure it's okay for you to dothat because they they said this stuff to you

(56:15):
or something like that.
Don't quote me on that.
Like, was it was something similar to that.
But there there are rules around, like, ifsomeone says it to you, like, it's okay.
If but if it's on different medium, then youhave to cite it, something like that.
But, it was kinda surprising.
I mean, for the most part, I I always made it apoint to get permission to include people's
like interviews But in that was mostly just aformality.

(56:35):
Like I wanna, you know, I want them to trustme, like I'm not gonna, you know, misuse their
words or whatever.
I always got permission, but I don't think itwas necessary for me to do so.
Yeah.
That's great.
Yeah, I mean, congrats on that endeavor.
Thank you.
Are you thinking about writing another book?
Thinking about maybe covering another topic oryou taking a break now?

(56:56):
Yeah, yeah, taking a break.
Not again.
It was a tough process.
There's still
Something that so I I did self publishing.
So I published my health care book and then Iand then I was like, next thing I'm gonna do is
a kids book.
But I think I'm done for now.
I can't I don't know what else I would writeabout.
So Yeah.
So I'm
Maybe in the future.
Yeah.
So maybe it'd be something else.

(57:17):
Maybe it'd be maybe it'd be something about,like, how to break into VC or something like
that.
Yeah.
But but yeah.
And I I know we're up on time.
We're, like, a minute minute away.
So Mhmm.
If anybody else has a final question, chime inin the next second or so.
If not, then we'll let you go.
And I know it's getting a little late overthere.
So if nobody has anything that, hey, Rahul,thanks so much for your time, learned so much.

(57:42):
Thank you.
And excited to keep you in our
Absolutely.
Awesome.
You.