August 8, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode, Joel Palathinkal is joined by Shambhavi Asuri of ZX Ventures to delve into the nuances of corporate and traditional venture capital, with a focus on ZX Ventures' strategy. Shambhavi shares insights on data analytics in corporate VC and explores innovation trends, including biotech applications in the beverage industry. The conversation covers transitioning into venture capital from other fields, evaluating investments, and the importance of KPIs. They discuss standardizing KPIs, setting benchmarks, and brand incubation processes. The episode also highlights future trends in deep tech for beverages and offers resources for industry trends and professional growth.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
You could create a great product with a greatpackaging and a great messaging.
(00:04):
We eliminate all of that and just paint thestory looking at all of the KPIs and that's
what like you know all the general partners andthe managing directors get it on a monthly
basis.
So that they can look at business to businessacross countries, across like you know, across
different strategic pillar that we have to seewhat it means, right.
(00:24):
So that's what I would say from a KPIstandpoint.
Welcome
to The Investor, a podcast where I, JoelPalafinkel, your host, dives deep into the
minds of the world's most influentialinstitutional investors.
In each episode, we sit down with an investorto hear about their journeys and how global
(00:46):
markets are driving capital allocation.
So join us on this journey as we explore theseinsights.
I know you've been really busy, so thank youfor making time for us and excited to hear a
little more about your journey into VC.
And then also specifically thinking about VCfrom a data driven perspective is super
(01:09):
important because that's like the new gold,When you look at investing, one thing that I've
been saying a lot is the private markets areconverging with the public markets, right?
So a lot of the back testing, the historicaldata that we use to train models, feel that
that's gonna translate to the private marketsas well.
(01:30):
I've already seen that because there'scrossover funds, right?
Yeah, sure.
So yeah, so excited to go really deep on that.
But before we go deeper, why don't we, learn alittle more about you and your career?
Yeah.
You have an interesting background.
It looks like you have a little bit ofanalytics and technology in your background
too.
So walk us through what you studied in college,where you grew up and how you evolved into the
(01:56):
venture space.
For sure, first of all thank you for having meon your channel.
Really excited to talk about like, know, how weuse data and analytics in, you know, corporate
venture capital world which is very it just notmany people think of like a group dedicated for
data and analytics, right?
So I've been in the country for about I thinkclose to twelve, thirteen years.
(02:21):
Before that I was in India where like anytypical like Indian person, like I did the
engineering, I did my undergrad in electricalengineering and then went on to do doing like
for a couple of years worked as a programmeranalyst for a service oriented company and then
at that point of time I was I knew that was notwhat I wanted to do.
(02:43):
I wanted to be more on the business side ormore more a product manager.
So which drove me to essentially pursue MBA.
So I came here to New York, I studied inUpstate New York in Rochester and then while I
was it was during the subprime market rightlike 2009 when like you know it was hardly
(03:03):
difficult to find a internship letter on a fulltime job.
Thankfully, landed in an internship at Avayawhich is a telecom company in their demand
generation team and at a point of time I wasreally like okay let's just see what it is.
If I don't like you know if what is the worstthat can happen?
You know.
I might not like this internship and then I cango back home and like do something else.
(03:27):
But thankfully that internship was verydefining of my career because that's where I
got to play with a lot of data.
You know, how to predict, like, you know, leadscoring for a b to b funnel, b to b sales
cycle.
And even within a with a span of, like, three,four months, I really was interested in
(03:47):
analytics and the use of data in the use ofdata and technology in the world, right.
And then that led to me taking up my full timerole with a lot of marketing analytics agencies
worked across a lot of different industries,hospitality and GM brand was one, Starwood, a
lot of retail platforms, logistics andhealthcare and most recently I was working with
(04:14):
a big advertising agency called Ogilvy andMatho.
While I was at Ogilvy is when I came across ZXVentures and at that point of time, I've always
had wanted to explore the entrepreneurial sidebut for some reason never dabbled with it much.
So when I called this op at ZX, my whole thingwas like, well, how can I bridge something that
(04:37):
I'm passionate about, like, you know, work inthe startup, but work with multiple different
incubations, but be in the analytics space?
So it was like a unique opportunity of hybridthings that I really like to do and I wanted to
explore.
So I was like, this is like, you know, nobrainer.
I should like, you know, pursue this and likego forward with that and it has been very
rewarding and and challenging and interestingat the same time.
(05:03):
Yeah.
And I apologize.
I didn't formally introduce you, so I guess Ijust got too eager to to kick things off, but
Shambhavi Shambhavi Shiva Mahakrishnan.
Did I get that?
It's Shivamakrishnan.
That was like 90%.
Yes, 90%.
Well, try saying my last name three times andyou'll probably get a tongue twister, but
(05:24):
Shambhavi, we met through a common friend andit's been really great getting to know her.
So she works at A and B Bev, Anheuser Busch'sventure fund.
But as a corporate VC, there's, and we'vetalked about this too, There's big differences
with working at maybe a $50,000,000 traditionalventure fund versus a corporate VC.
(05:49):
A lot of times, from my knowledge, the maindifference is that there's strategic
initiatives.
You're not always looking for returning thefund or looking for outsized returns.
Obviously that is a good goal to have returnsplus strategic outcomes.
But how do you guys think about that atAnheuser?
(06:09):
We've had quite a bit of corporate VCs comeinto our web show and they've all said
different things, but I'd love to hear a littlemore about, kind of a little more about your
role and then just the structure of how youguys are organized and then just thinking
through the corporate VCs mandates.
(06:29):
Yeah, let me talk a little bit about ZX as anorganization is focused on from an investment
standpoint and I'll delve into like how we usedata and analytics to drive some of these
decisions.
From a investment standpoint, we're alwayslooking for innovation and we're always looking
for cutting edge, the next big thing in thebeverage space.
(06:52):
That's a primary focus.
Where are the white spaces in the market andthat's not restricted to just like United
States or North America.
We're looking at investments in Latin America,Europe, South Africa, Asia Pacific, every
single like you know a predominant likeupcoming markets and countries And anything
ancillary to beverage, you must have read a lotabout like you know the biotech space,
(07:17):
alternate like you know alternate like meatprotein space where there is a lot of like
exploration that's going on and that's wherelike our thesis are pretty much like in that
space.
Now coming to the point of like you know dataand analytics, right?
So simply put like we are using data forefficiencies and strategic advantage.
(07:40):
But I would break it into like you know threeor different three four different areas where
we really use it day in and day out to makebetter decisions.
I think the first is like you know pretty muchlike sourcing.
When you're thinking about like what's the newthing that's coming in the market that sells us
for instance like which is like you know whichis everywhere.
(08:00):
We always look at like you know sourcinginformation.
Think about like looking at like hundreds ofdifferent like data points.
We are creating efficiencies in terms of, like,reducing the time that it takes to analyze this
information.
Right?
And then evaluating in in terms of evaluating,we are removing the bias that has going into
making the decision especially like looking ata potential like investment against its
(08:25):
competitor set or like how does it comparewithin the category?
What does this performance been in the lastlike one year or four year?
And do we see that you know this this wouldbring value to us?
And then the last one is once you have made theinvestment, what are the KPIs that we can look
at?
You know, traditionally in an establishedbusiness, you're looking at you're going to
look at like profit and cash flow.
(08:46):
But in an in early stage, you're looking at alot of other metrics.
Right?
For instance, like, you know, CLTV, like,what's the number of customers that we have or,
like, how is your online sales been, offlinesales been, what does your distribution look
like, you know, do can we is the distributionmakes sense?
Is the results statistically significant for usto draw any conclusion?
What can we learn from this?
(09:07):
These are the three main areas that my teamfocuses on essentially across all of the
different countries.
We also use this information to support theportfolio companies with any forecasting or
like any like retail distribution, marketactivations and all of that.
So it's a bit of everything I would say likeyou know sourcing, evaluating insights and at
(09:27):
the end of the day we also do a lot of deepdives on the portfolio health as well.
And then what about market data?
I guess, does that do you have your own dataproprietary data feeds or are you pulling from
and you don't have to share, like, where youpull the data specifically, but is it a
combination of creating your own data sets oris it really pulling from different data feeds
(09:51):
and kind of stitching together something?
I'm glad you asked that because that's the mostchallenging aspect of it, right?
Like when you're an established business, youcan look at some of the partnership datas and
panel datas and you will get everything, youknow?
Like if you're looking at for instance, like, Imean, I don't wanna name a brand but then like,
you know, you get like you you get all theinformation but you're in the early stage when
(10:13):
you're not like present in a lot of keyaccounts.
You're like only focused on a small percentageof the market.
It's hard to get.
So from a standpoint of like you know drivinginsights, there is a lot of data that is out
there from investment standpoint.
We look at that like which is what we call thepartnership data.
We look at a combination of proprietary datathat we and Anne Eiselbusch has and then a lot
(10:36):
of the public data right which is like relatedto social information, related to what you can
gather from what is out there in the mediathrough Google search, desktop search.
But what we do is we have a very robustpipeline.
No matter your data is, whether it is from Peruor whether it's from Brazil or whether it's
from China, we have a very very robust pipelineto integrate all of that information.
(10:58):
So even if it's a messy data, you're at the endof the day looking at it in a very organized
fashion and a systematic fashion that all theKPIs, all the measurements are standardized.
So you're looking at very very similar like youknow metrics to compare one business against
another business in one country against anothercountry.
So that's essentially like how we look at it.
(11:21):
But in terms of like some of the KPIs and otherthings, we look at a lot of like, know, panel
data that we get from even surveys sometimeslike that we look at like, you know, testing
and other things like, you know, to understandproduct market fit and whatnot.
And, you know, going back to the corporateinitiatives versus a traditional fund, can you
(11:42):
maybe unpack what you've seen as far as justthe difference between being a corporate VC
versus a traditional fund and then how do youguys think about that as well as far as like
your goals or mandates?
So our mandate is, think this is, I do not havethat much experience with the traditional VC.
So I think take response to the grain of
(12:03):
salt, it could be
like completely off your as well.
But knowing what I know about us, ZX venture asa corporate venture capital, our mandate is
essentially like I said, like innovation,anything to do with some aspect is also impact
investing that we are thinking about.
But it's mostly like on the innovation siderelated to beverage and ancillary to beverage,
(12:26):
I would say.
And what are some things that you're seeingthat are becoming innovative trends in the
beverage space?
Are you seeing a lot of like the beverages thatare like good for your digestion?
Any themes that you're seeing on the beveragespace specifically?
Yeah, I mean, I think there is a lot of like,you know, I think like three broad categories
(12:48):
would be health and wellness related, which iswhere we see the lot of like, you know, zero
cal.
We have a lot of like, you know, brands andSKUs that support that.
Whether if you want like a non alcoholic beeror beer that has a lot of products for that.
And then the second is a lot of, I would sayrelated to energy drinks where we see a lot of
(13:20):
boom there and then the last would be a lot ofnatural ingredient related like you know
products products as opposed to artificialingredients like organic and natural.
Those are the three top like, you know,subcategories that we are seeing or the
segments that we see a lot of traction thesedays.
Yeah.
And then are you seeing any food tech beinginvolved as far you know, you talked about lab
(13:43):
grown.
I've been in the the lab grown meat space.
So I'm familiar with using bioreactors for, youknow, for growing food.
But what are the technologies that you'reseeing that are being adopted to innovate in
the beverage space?
Are they using types of algae to improvedigestion?
Is there any kind of lab grown applications,you know, using a bioreactor?
(14:07):
Don't know if you've
Yeah. Been involved
Been involved in We have a big thing onbiotechnology and we're exploring a lot of that
space.
We also have a big like, you know, barley, everpro, ever wheat up protein that's a huge
innovation that we like, you know, building andwe are scaling at this point, which is
(14:32):
essentially protein or barley converted intoprotein, I would say.
I think like the specifics, the people canlike, you know, mention it like more clearly on
the component of it, but that's something that,you know, we, it's a big venture that we have
that's built out of St.
(14:54):
Louis factory in, yeah, in The US.
Yeah, and you know, I want to go back a littlebit to your career, because I have a very
similar background that we talked about this.
So I have an electrical engineering background,and then I also worked in product.
So I have my own opinions about how thatbackground and skill set helped me, but how do
(15:18):
you think that helped you?
And then some of the people on this call areworking in technology, they're working in
consulting, baking, they're trying to get intoventure.
So any advice that or any piece of wisdom thatyou would share to kind of help you to help
them kind of break into venture from maybe atraditional technology or consulting role and
(15:38):
what worked for you?
That's a great question.
I'm actually thinking like, you know, whileyou're asking what worked for me.
I think like, think general inquisitiveness tothe business, to the financials and the
investments and being curious about it, thinkthat's the first.
(16:01):
From a skill set standpoint, I think there area lot of transferable skills especially from
consulting or from technology right.
Consulting especially I would say because likeI was in marketing analytics consulting.
So when you look at that like you get like youtend to look at a lot of businesses and you
have this outside the box perspective, right?
(16:23):
Like out of box perspective where you bring inlike you're not like looking at one business in
one industry.
So I think those are the skills that are verymuch needed like being able to think about like
multiple businesses and like the P and Ls andeverything like you know how it works.
And I think the last I would say from a techstandpoint, I think tech is always evolving,
(16:43):
right?
Like there are like you know, it depends onlike what sort of venture capital anyone wants
to get in, but then like you know, especiallyif you're looking at a venture capital that's
like heavily investing in SaaS basedbusinesses, there are like a lot of skills that
go a long way especially in value creationbeing more on the operating side.
I think those are the things that I would thinkabout like even although like I am not an
(17:06):
investor, I'm more on the operating side.
I think that gives me a direct visibility intohow like the investment committee makes the
decisions, what goes into making the decisions,how can I support it from an operating
standpoint, right?
Even that is really interesting and eye openingand I think like people who find it difficult
directly as an investor to as an entryway intoventure capital or any of the private equities,
(17:31):
I think operating side is, I would say is agood like you know, option as well for some of
the folks who might be, like, very very keen ongetting into that space.
Yeah.
And I think you gotta find your entry point.
Right?
So I think the fact that you had some analyticsand product background that got you into these
ZX Ventures even though it's not the specificinvestment team role and Yeah.
(17:54):
I think based on our conversations, you do workdirectly with the investment team.
You're involved in some of the Yeah.
Decisions.
Obviously, a lot of that gets tracked andthere's some data.
So
you know it's much closer than not being at thefirm and you know being related to that.
I think you know getting those initialexperiences, trying to find your way in right,
(18:14):
so if you have a product or analyticsbackground and there is an analytics role that
is out of fund, at least you're out of fundversus IBM, right?
No disrespect, I don't think anybody here worksat IBM, but you know IBM is a great place to
work, My brother-in-law works there, but yeah,so I think that's a good point and that's what
works for me as well.
(18:34):
So when I was in engineering, I thought, hey,know, I'm good at technology, but I'm also good
with people, And I like coordinating andworking with different personalities.
So that's kind of how I broke into product.
But then when I wanted to break into venture, Iused kind of my product sense.
And I said, hey, when I'm supporting thesedifferent founders, one thing that I can do to
(18:56):
add value is look at the product, givefeedback, test the app, download it, and really
give some meaningful value based on what Ithought the product was doing.
And then from ZX Ventures standpoint, when youguys are looking at interesting companies, what
(19:16):
are some of the KPIs that you look for likewhen you're evaluating them?
Obviously, it needs to be in the same sectorthat you guys are interested in, right?
So it needs to be in the category that isinteresting, but are there any specific KPIs
that you've seen as a pattern that says, hey,you know what we've made, we've made these few
investments and they all have these traits,maybe they have 100 ks in revenue every month
(19:41):
or they're growing by X percentage, I guess arethere some things that from a data and
quantitative side has been helpful to kind ofhave a system in place to be able to source and
screen effectively?
Yeah, so I think we also like, you know, it'snot just like investments that we make, we also
incubate our own like, you know, ventures,right, like when we are preceding and seeding.
(20:04):
So from a standpoint of like, if you separateout like, you know, investments versus like
things that we start on our own, like, which iswhere we precede and see, It's a it is in the
initial stages, it's all about, like, you know,three main categories, which I would call it
as, like, the commercial metrics, like, thebrand related metrics.
How does the brand resonates?
(20:25):
What is your what is the PR looking like?
And, commercially, like, you know, what is yoursales, like distribution, offline, online
distribution.
Those sort of metrics or like if you're lookingat a b2c business, it's about like you know the
consumer growth, know the order rate and thingslike that, right.
So if you think about the KPIs, it's all aboutlike you know your product liquid testing, the
(20:49):
brand KPIs and commercial KPIs, right?
And then we start to look once the businessevolves, when it reaches like from the initial
testing of the product or the desirability ofthe product, when it becomes to more of the
viability and the feasibility stage, that'swhen we look at KPIs from a financial
(21:11):
standpoint, from an investment standpoint.
At the point of time, it's always like, youknow, what is your the typical profit and the
cash flow besides that we also look at ARRvalue, we look at like, you know, sales and
marketing spend like, you know, how does it,you know, how is it looking in conjunction with
the net revenue because at the end of the day,you don't want to be buying consumers, you
(21:33):
don't want to spend so much to the point whereyou're buying consumers.
So we look at all of these things on aconsistent basis.
So on a monthly basis, there is a data drivenmemo that goes out to the management committee
looking at each business from an objectivestandpoint, eliminating all the subjectivity
(21:53):
surrounding it, right.
Like you could create a great product with agreat packaging and a great messaging.
We eliminate all of that and just paint thestory looking at all of the KPIs and that's
what like you know all the general partners andthe managing directors get it on a monthly
basis.
So that they can look at business to businessacross countries across like you know, across
(22:15):
different strategic pillar that we have to seewhat it means, right.
So that's what I would say from a KPIstandpoint.
But for more established growth level business,we look at like, you know, what is the IRR is
looking like?
What is the MOEIC factor looking like?
And also the, you know, the cash flow andeverything.
(22:39):
That's for more like an established businessthat's in the growth stage.
But in the early stage we're always looking atjust not just the financial and investments,
we're looking at a lot of additional KPIs.
But they are like you know standardized andstandardized across regions.
And while the KPIs are standardized, thebenchmarks are set based upon the country
(23:01):
specific you know.
Simple example, you're looking at a NPS scorein US against an NPS score in Asia, it will be
completely different.
Know the benchmarks will be very differentbecause of the cultural nuances and how people
react you know on a scale of one to 10, howwell like you know more consumers in U.
S.
Are leaning towards to give you know seven.
(23:23):
But this for the same seven it will be like atwo in like you know in certain countries and
regions.
So the benchmarks are set based upon eachregion and the market and the category within
the particular country But from a KPIstandpoint, we tend to remain consistent across
regions.
Yeah.
Double clicking on that, that's a reallyinteresting insight because I I did an
(23:45):
internship at General Mills, you know, when Iwas in school, and it was really interesting.
I was working on a few different products, butsome of the products in India and Asia, they
it's a completely different ingredient, youknow, they probably have a lot of masala in the
Asian they have these corn chips, it's likeBugles.
I don't know if you know Bugles, but it's likea chip that's shaped like a cone.
(24:09):
And realized that in Asia and in India, theseasoning is different, In India, a little more
spicy.
Here we've got like cool ranch, So it's likecompletely cheddar cheese and cool ranch.
So that, you know, so I could definitely saylike probably when it comes to food, probably
that might taste bland to some other countriesbecause they like that.
(24:32):
And I'm also ethnic, So I love, I put hot sauceon everything and I probably would fail some of
the NPS scores, but what's the NPS scoredifference that you think is being triggered
over beverages?
Because is it that like maybe a beverage is toosweet for something?
I guess what are some of those trigger pointsthat you're noticing?
(24:54):
And that's really interesting when you thinkabout cross border because then you still have
to make a different skew for Asia and India andmaybe The Middle East as well.
So when we think about our incubations, we do aseparate liquid testing, right?
To look at the parity of the liquid againstlike a few other competitors.
(25:20):
In that we look at the sessionability of theliquid, we look at the taste profile, we look
at the flavor profile.
So most often it's when we are thinking aboutlike early stage of PC adventures, it's
completely a different product altogether,know.
There are like you know products like HoeGarden that you have it in US as well as in
(25:42):
China, but those are more like in the growthstage at this point, I would say.
Sure.
But even in that, like there are differentflavor profiles that are tuned to this a
certain culture, certain region.
You know, certain fruity flavors tend to workbetter in Asian culture in comparison to U.
S.
Market, would say.
(26:03):
That's something that we have found throughinsights.
But from a standpoint of NPS, it's more aboutlike, it's a promoter score to understand
whether would you recommend this product toone, to your friend or not, right?
What it is.
Even when you think about it, you think aboutwhether you're comparing your own product
against like a competitor's product, they willpretty much rate the same because culturally, I
(26:27):
think what it is is that, you know, you don'ttend to give a higher rating for anything that
is good, you know.
Sure.
I'm Yeah.
I think like, I I mean, immediate thought thatcame to my mind is that, you know, even if I
would get, like, you know, a top score, myparents would be, like, good.
You know?
It's not basic.
Whereas, like, you know, in the Not an o plus.
It's gonna
(26:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
You know?
So I think I didn't even think about thatbecause the the standards might be higher for
different cultures.
Exactly.
So even that's important and the standard forlike for example, a premium craft beer is
different from a standard for a premium craftbeer here in The US, right?
Because you have a lot more like lot moreoptions.
(27:09):
So you expect a lot more as well.
In an evolving market or a growing market,don't have that much pool of like, you know,
then therefore, like your expectations alsolike varies.
It's a combination of everything, but what I'mtrying to say is that it's important to have
the right benchmarks in place so that you'llknow what you're comparing against in terms of
(27:30):
your competition.
Not only that, need to know where you stand inthe competition.
That's extremely important.
That I think that's extremely crucial.
At the end of the day, you can have the rightKPIs in place.
You can come up with like a, you know, a wholelot of like 100 KPIs, but at the end of the
day, if you don't know what the right benchmarkis, then you would really don't know where you
(27:52):
are standing, know.
So that's important, especially in the earlystage.
When you're in the growth stage, then you havea lot more measures like market share, market
penetration that you can look at and like youknow, sort of have a sense of like how you're
performing and then most often the P and L isactually a reflection of your business, right?
Like you don't need to like dig into more ofthe granular metrics, you will probably need to
(28:16):
identify where you can spot issues ahead andfix it from a strategic standpoint, but
especially in the early stage, think this issomething that I've noticed is setting the
right benchmark has been extremely crucial.
And when you guys are incubating, I I see italmost like an innovation lab.
Right?
So Yeah.
What are the teams that you need to puttogether to be able to build a brand?
(28:39):
You know, who is composed of that team?
Is it like a science like a food scientist ormarketing people, branding people?
Guess what's kind of like your core teamusually when you guys are incubating something?
So we usually have a product owner who is sortof like a think of it as like a founder sort of
a role.
(28:59):
Cool.
They are doing all of the work, right?
Like essentially from like, you know, workingwith the lab to create the liquid and then
packaging, creating it and all of that.
So the product owner pretty much owns theproduct and they work with the commercial team,
they work with the supply team, they work with,then they work with the sales reps.
(29:25):
So the product owner is a core of the productand they work with the supply team and the
different team that we seek help from the ABIwhere there are synergies and that's how they
go about it.
But it's essentially the product owner that islike, you know, that's playing sort of the the
owner of the of of different initiatives ofdifferent ventures that we have.
(29:48):
Okay.
Yeah.
That's really helpful.
And, you know, and then how I guess you couldtake it as far as you can take it, right?
Because I guess, I understand the, you know,obviously the very literal numbers of the,
know, is it getting any revenue?
Is it getting any possible early adopters?
Right?
Because I'm sure you do a pilot and get somefeedback.
(30:09):
But when you look at brand and also I think youmentioned PR as another KPI.
So how do you measure the brand?
Is that more just qualitative surveys?
And then with the PR, how do you measure that?
Do you do a couple of test Twitter posts andthen see who who responds to that?
And sorry for migrants, I probably don't.
(30:29):
No, no, no, no.
I like the questions.
I mean, I wish like, you know, more people askthese kind of questions because a lot of people
when they think about brand, they only thinkabout like, you know, the traditional brand
agencies and they are expecting to do surveyand then the trial rate, know, but what we're
looking at is pretty much in the early stagesor like awareness to the product, right?
(30:49):
Are you aware of the product?
That's essentially what we are testing.
And for that to test, we look at a lot of wehave a framework in place where we look at
different metrics, PR is one of the labor.
And in terms of PR, we are essentially lookingat magazines, consumer PR, trade PR.
(31:10):
So we have, there are like a lot of platformsthat would enable a lot of brands to track some
of this information, right?
So you can say that this is a brand that islike launched and then you can pretty much set
up a tracker and then see what is how manymentions, PR mentions has happened, how many
consumer mentions has happened and how does ittranslate to the brand's like awareness and how
(31:35):
does it what does it mean for the brand'sinterest?
Besides that, we are I mean you can have anarticle on a beverage magazine, right?
But what does it mean?
Know at the end of the day you want to knowwhat sort of like awareness that it generated.
That's what we're trying to look at and besidesthat we look at a lot of the social
(31:58):
engagements, engagements on social media, howmany followers we have, how many influences,
like organic influences we have garnered.
So we have a framework where we look at acombination of survey, combination of our
organic and paid and reach on the social, onthe e commerce channel, I'm sorry, on the
(32:22):
online channel and then the PR and then we alsohave the survey that covers for the offline
channel.
So it's a combination of looking at like, youknow, different things so that at the end of
the day, we are eliminating the noise that youwould get from, you know, looking at only one
channel.
But what we are essentially measuring in theearly stages, like what does that awareness
mean for the product?
(32:43):
Mhmm.
Okay.
Yeah.
That's really helpful.
And then when you look at the awareness, Iguess the you know, what what happens if you're
not meeting those metrics?
I guess you can just put that on pause and thenmaybe work on another brand project or maybe
that product manager pivots?
Have that has that happened where you've had tokind of repivot the strategy?
(33:04):
Yeah.
Times.
And that's the thing that we look at.
We look at it over our seeds are like runningfor a period of time and then we consistently
evaluate like I said like every month where isthe focus and we have this traffic lights that
we provide to see that green, red, yellow,green is like it's you know consistently doing
(33:24):
well you know traffic lights.
Well anything that's really watch for it to saythat hey this is not like you know there's no
traction on any levers like you know there isnot much interaction from a brand perspective,
there is no interest or awareness of the brand,Not just that we're not seeing much like you
know interaction from a commercial standpointin terms of the sales data that we have.
(33:47):
There is not much repeat purchase.
I think we look at it like consistently and ifwe see a consistent trend then that's a call
for us to say this is not working.
So we need to pivot.
We need to either like you know think about analternate strategy, see if we can change it.
If not, think at that point of time we justmake a decision to kill it and like you know
focus on something better.
(34:11):
That has happened in the past and that's whatyou know you test and run, right?
Like when you're in the pre seed and the seedstage that's what you're looking at, right?
Like so that's happened for us and that's wherethe data comes in like really really helpful
because we've had occasions where the brandstory is amazing.
You look at the brand image, you look at thepackaging, you look at everything.
(34:34):
Everything looks great on paper right but thenwhen you start to look into the details and
that's when you see that it's not working youknow.
So that I mean as a creative and a brandmanager I would have loved this When you start
to look at the numbers, they don't add up.
There has been multiple occasions where we haveto we had to kill some of the passionate
(34:55):
ventures, but I think that only benefits us inthe long run to focus on things that are
working well.
Sure, let's talk about the future.
So something that I've seen recently that'sinteresting is SOSV, they have glyph, so it's a
whiskey that ages much faster.
So they use some type of lab grown technologyto be able to allow whiskey to age much faster.
(35:19):
So what do you see that's happening from maybea deep tech perspective in the future for
beverages, and do you guys do whiskey or justmore, you know, soft I drinks and
wish we did.
We don't.
Focused on a lot of wine, I would say, but notmuch of whiskey.
But I think the most like upcoming spaces inthe bio brewing side, I think that's where I
(35:41):
see a lot of like, know, focus, not just likefrom ZX or ABI perspective, think from the
future, when you read about it from an, youknow, biotech perspective, there is a lot of
like, you know, bio growing that's spokenabout.
And I again, I think the other thing is that,you know, the use of spent grain for creating
(36:02):
alternate proteins and like, what can we gainfrom that, right?
I think that's something that the whole like nomeat, alternate meat, the protein space is
something that I think it's definitely spokenabout in the organization widely as well as
like you know what you see in the market.
So I mean, if I would have to pick on twothings, those would be the two things that I am
(36:27):
interested in, I'm curious and that's probablywhere I think the organization might focus as
well.
Yeah.
I think it'd be really interesting too.
I don't know if they've ever piloted likeprotein in beer, but you know, I know they had
beer that because what kills you with beer isthe carbs, right?
So so I know that they do have like low carb.
Yeah.
And I think they have just, you know, beerthat's just a little more lightweight.
(36:52):
But I think if they had beer that was good foryou, you know, obviously that would be really
interesting too because then there's maybe somenutritional value and there could be some
technology to maybe provide that from like achemical.
Yeah, we recently had like a lot of likevitamin D sort of good for you and I think even
(37:14):
if you look at the calorie content for carbs ina lot of like, you know, SKUs that we have,
they are pretty amazing, it doesn't compromiseon the taste.
You open my wall, send you a list that youneeded to try, you know, so yeah.
And where could other people if they want tomaybe apply to CX Ventures, if they're
(37:35):
preparing, what are maybe some news articles orblogs that they should read to hear about the
hottest trends and beverages?
Are there any blogs or websites that yourecommend for people to follow?
Bandnet is one, I would say, which has whole ofupcoming like news about every single thing
(37:56):
that's happening in the web page space.
I mean, traditionally, I would say follow RZAccenture page on LinkedIn on everything that
is there.
So that's when you can get to know what arecool investments, what is happening in our
space.
But I think like anybody is interested in ZF,I'm happy to speak to them one on one if
there's anything that anybody wants to knowmore about.
(38:20):
And we have a lot of roles open as well and youcan check them out on LinkedIn, which is, yeah,
I think we're looking at a lot of investmentroles at this point.
And not just like ZX, I think we can also like,you know, ABI is a good great place as well.
Even they do a lot of investments within ABI,which is focused on beyond beer.
(38:45):
So I would highly encourage like, you know, whyyou might be interested in ZX.
ABI is also an entry point for a lot of peopleto like, you know, people move between ZX and
AVI.
So so that's also an amazing place that I wouldrecommend anybody interested in the Valvaris to
look at.
No.
That's great.
Well, got you know, thank you so much.
You know, we got about ten minutes.
So guys in the audience, you guys have anyquestions?
(39:15):
All right, well, they're thinking of questionsor if they don't have any questions.
One thing that I always ask the guests beforewe wrap up is any piece of life advice that you
would share with us?
You know, you've pivoted a few times and nowyou're really in the venture space.
So, know, with those life experiences andprofessional experiences, anything that you
want to share with us as just maybe generallearnings or advice?
(39:39):
I think what I would say is be ready to beflexible and pivot and change, know, you never
know what opportunities you would get and whereit would take you.
I think, like I said, I think like I neveranticipated me being in a venture capital.
I never even envisioned a group that'sdedicated to data and analytics within a
(40:02):
corporate venture capital.
So I think initially I could have like, youknow, when this opportunity came, I could have
completely been oblivious to it, to the factthat okay, this is not something meaningful.
But I think like, you know, curious and beingopen to it and being flexible about a lot of
things, I think like, know, really helps.
(40:23):
I think that is one thing that I think like,you know, I would say that has helped me, you
know, professionally and like, you know,otherwise being flexible and being open to
change and the ability to pivot, right.
You might not be tied to a solution, you mightbe like, you know, flexible to change, know,
that's something that no matter whether you'rean entrepreneur, like you should, at one point
(40:45):
you would have to pivot, right?
So I think that like, you know, helps in every,I think like every sphere of life, think, yeah.
Yeah, no, that's really helpful.
Well, guys, if you don't have any questions,maybe we they can try to get ahold of you at
some point is what's the best way to get aholdof you or to reach out to you for questions?
(41:06):
I mean, you have my number, can always like,know, text me or you can reach me on LinkedIn
or I can leave you my personal email addresshere and then like, you know, text me, I'm
happy to chat more.
We're always looking for like, you know, techand analytics talent, anybody's interested, I'm
happy to share.
(41:26):
We're always looking for, you know, talent inin data technology and analytics.
Yeah.
Great.
Well, thank you.
Yeah.
Well, I posted your LinkedIn.
That way the whole world doesn't get your cellphone number And I'll try to point people in
the right direction.
But thank you so much.
I know it's, you know, getting late into theevening.
(41:47):
So hope you have a great rest of the week andand really great.
Yeah.
Really great.
Thankful for the friendship.
No, thank you.
I mean, I really enjoyed.
I think it was very rarely people ask aboutdata and analytics in a CVC and I'm so glad
like somebody was interested to know about it.
And I keep telling everybody it's not like asupport function.
It's a must have.
(42:07):
It's a it's a lead team that, you know, drivesdecisions.
So I'm glad we were able to connect and talkabout it.
So
Yeah.
Me too.
I mean, I'm a little bit of a data nerd becauseI worked in fintech for some time.
So when I think about data feeds and when Ithink about processing data, know, of that just
comes back to me.
Great to a like minded person, but I hope tocatch up soon and you know, we're both in so
(42:31):
New we'll organize something at some point.
All right.
For sure, for sure.
Thank you so much.
You could create a great product with a greatpackaging and a great messaging.
(00:04):
We eliminate all of that and just paint thestory looking at all of the KPIs and that's
what like you know all the general partners andthe managing directors get it on a monthly
basis.
So that they can look at business to businessacross countries, across like you know, across
different strategic pillar that we have to seewhat it means, right.
(00:24):
So that's what I would say from a KPIstandpoint.
Welcome
to The Investor, a podcast where I, JoelPalafinkel, your host, dives deep into the
minds of the world's most influentialinstitutional investors.
In each episode, we sit down with an investorto hear about their journeys and how global
(00:46):
markets are driving capital allocation.
So join us on this journey as we explore theseinsights.
I know you've been really busy, so thank youfor making time for us and excited to hear a
little more about your journey into VC.
And then also specifically thinking about VCfrom a data driven perspective is super
(01:09):
important because that's like the new gold,When you look at investing, one thing that I've
been saying a lot is the private markets areconverging with the public markets, right?
So a lot of the back testing, the historicaldata that we use to train models, feel that
that's gonna translate to the private marketsas well.
(01:30):
I've already seen that because there'scrossover funds, right?
Yeah, sure.
So yeah, so excited to go really deep on that.
But before we go deeper, why don't we, learn alittle more about you and your career?
Yeah.
You have an interesting background.
It looks like you have a little bit ofanalytics and technology in your background
too.
So walk us through what you studied in college,where you grew up and how you evolved into the
(01:56):
venture space.
For sure, first of all thank you for having meon your channel.
Really excited to talk about like, know, how weuse data and analytics in, you know, corporate
venture capital world which is very it just notmany people think of like a group dedicated for
data and analytics, right?
So I've been in the country for about I thinkclose to twelve, thirteen years.
(02:21):
Before that I was in India where like anytypical like Indian person, like I did the
engineering, I did my undergrad in electricalengineering and then went on to do doing like
for a couple of years worked as a programmeranalyst for a service oriented company and then
at that point of time I was I knew that was notwhat I wanted to do.
(02:43):
I wanted to be more on the business side ormore more a product manager.
So which drove me to essentially pursue MBA.
So I came here to New York, I studied inUpstate New York in Rochester and then while I
was it was during the subprime market rightlike 2009 when like you know it was hardly
(03:03):
difficult to find a internship letter on a fulltime job.
Thankfully, landed in an internship at Avayawhich is a telecom company in their demand
generation team and at a point of time I wasreally like okay let's just see what it is.
If I don't like you know if what is the worstthat can happen?
You know.
I might not like this internship and then I cango back home and like do something else.
(03:27):
But thankfully that internship was verydefining of my career because that's where I
got to play with a lot of data.
You know, how to predict, like, you know, leadscoring for a b to b funnel, b to b sales
cycle.
And even within a with a span of, like, three,four months, I really was interested in
(03:47):
analytics and the use of data in the use ofdata and technology in the world, right.
And then that led to me taking up my full timerole with a lot of marketing analytics agencies
worked across a lot of different industries,hospitality and GM brand was one, Starwood, a
lot of retail platforms, logistics andhealthcare and most recently I was working with
(04:14):
a big advertising agency called Ogilvy andMatho.
While I was at Ogilvy is when I came across ZXVentures and at that point of time, I've always
had wanted to explore the entrepreneurial sidebut for some reason never dabbled with it much.
So when I called this op at ZX, my whole thingwas like, well, how can I bridge something that
(04:37):
I'm passionate about, like, you know, work inthe startup, but work with multiple different
incubations, but be in the analytics space?
So it was like a unique opportunity of hybridthings that I really like to do and I wanted to
explore.
So I was like, this is like, you know, nobrainer.
I should like, you know, pursue this and likego forward with that and it has been very
rewarding and and challenging and interestingat the same time.
(05:03):
Yeah.
And I apologize.
I didn't formally introduce you, so I guess Ijust got too eager to to kick things off, but
Shambhavi Shambhavi Shiva Mahakrishnan.
Did I get that?
It's Shivamakrishnan.
That was like 90%.
Yes, 90%.
Well, try saying my last name three times andyou'll probably get a tongue twister, but
(05:24):
Shambhavi, we met through a common friend andit's been really great getting to know her.
So she works at A and B Bev, Anheuser Busch'sventure fund.
But as a corporate VC, there's, and we'vetalked about this too, There's big differences
with working at maybe a $50,000,000 traditionalventure fund versus a corporate VC.
(05:49):
A lot of times, from my knowledge, the maindifference is that there's strategic
initiatives.
You're not always looking for returning thefund or looking for outsized returns.
Obviously that is a good goal to have returnsplus strategic outcomes.
But how do you guys think about that atAnheuser?
(06:09):
We've had quite a bit of corporate VCs comeinto our web show and they've all said
different things, but I'd love to hear a littlemore about, kind of a little more about your
role and then just the structure of how youguys are organized and then just thinking
through the corporate VCs mandates.
(06:29):
Yeah, let me talk a little bit about ZX as anorganization is focused on from an investment
standpoint and I'll delve into like how we usedata and analytics to drive some of these
decisions.
From a investment standpoint, we're alwayslooking for innovation and we're always looking
for cutting edge, the next big thing in thebeverage space.
(06:52):
That's a primary focus.
Where are the white spaces in the market andthat's not restricted to just like United
States or North America.
We're looking at investments in Latin America,Europe, South Africa, Asia Pacific, every
single like you know a predominant likeupcoming markets and countries And anything
ancillary to beverage, you must have read a lotabout like you know the biotech space,
(07:17):
alternate like you know alternate like meatprotein space where there is a lot of like
exploration that's going on and that's wherelike our thesis are pretty much like in that
space.
Now coming to the point of like you know dataand analytics, right?
So simply put like we are using data forefficiencies and strategic advantage.
(07:40):
But I would break it into like you know threeor different three four different areas where
we really use it day in and day out to makebetter decisions.
I think the first is like you know pretty muchlike sourcing.
When you're thinking about like what's the newthing that's coming in the market that sells us
for instance like which is like you know whichis everywhere.
(08:00):
We always look at like you know sourcinginformation.
Think about like looking at like hundreds ofdifferent like data points.
We are creating efficiencies in terms of, like,reducing the time that it takes to analyze this
information.
Right?
And then evaluating in in terms of evaluating,we are removing the bias that has going into
making the decision especially like looking ata potential like investment against its
(08:25):
competitor set or like how does it comparewithin the category?
What does this performance been in the lastlike one year or four year?
And do we see that you know this this wouldbring value to us?
And then the last one is once you have made theinvestment, what are the KPIs that we can look
at?
You know, traditionally in an establishedbusiness, you're looking at you're going to
look at like profit and cash flow.
(08:46):
But in an in early stage, you're looking at alot of other metrics.
Right?
For instance, like, you know, CLTV, like,what's the number of customers that we have or,
like, how is your online sales been, offlinesales been, what does your distribution look
like, you know, do can we is the distributionmakes sense?
Is the results statistically significant for usto draw any conclusion?
What can we learn from this?
(09:07):
These are the three main areas that my teamfocuses on essentially across all of the
different countries.
We also use this information to support theportfolio companies with any forecasting or
like any like retail distribution, marketactivations and all of that.
So it's a bit of everything I would say likeyou know sourcing, evaluating insights and at
(09:27):
the end of the day we also do a lot of deepdives on the portfolio health as well.
And then what about market data?
I guess, does that do you have your own dataproprietary data feeds or are you pulling from
and you don't have to share, like, where youpull the data specifically, but is it a
combination of creating your own data sets oris it really pulling from different data feeds
(09:51):
and kind of stitching together something?
I'm glad you asked that because that's the mostchallenging aspect of it, right?
Like when you're an established business, youcan look at some of the partnership datas and
panel datas and you will get everything, youknow?
Like if you're looking at for instance, like, Imean, I don't wanna name a brand but then like,
you know, you get like you you get all theinformation but you're in the early stage when
(10:13):
you're not like present in a lot of keyaccounts.
You're like only focused on a small percentageof the market.
It's hard to get.
So from a standpoint of like you know drivinginsights, there is a lot of data that is out
there from investment standpoint.
We look at that like which is what we call thepartnership data.
We look at a combination of proprietary datathat we and Anne Eiselbusch has and then a lot
(10:36):
of the public data right which is like relatedto social information, related to what you can
gather from what is out there in the mediathrough Google search, desktop search.
But what we do is we have a very robustpipeline.
No matter your data is, whether it is from Peruor whether it's from Brazil or whether it's
from China, we have a very very robust pipelineto integrate all of that information.
(10:58):
So even if it's a messy data, you're at the endof the day looking at it in a very organized
fashion and a systematic fashion that all theKPIs, all the measurements are standardized.
So you're looking at very very similar like youknow metrics to compare one business against
another business in one country against anothercountry.
So that's essentially like how we look at it.
(11:21):
But in terms of like some of the KPIs and otherthings, we look at a lot of like, know, panel
data that we get from even surveys sometimeslike that we look at like, you know, testing
and other things like, you know, to understandproduct market fit and whatnot.
And, you know, going back to the corporateinitiatives versus a traditional fund, can you
(11:42):
maybe unpack what you've seen as far as justthe difference between being a corporate VC
versus a traditional fund and then how do youguys think about that as well as far as like
your goals or mandates?
So our mandate is, think this is, I do not havethat much experience with the traditional VC.
So I think take response to the grain of
(12:03):
salt, it could be
like completely off your as well.
But knowing what I know about us, ZX venture asa corporate venture capital, our mandate is
essentially like I said, like innovation,anything to do with some aspect is also impact
investing that we are thinking about.
But it's mostly like on the innovation siderelated to beverage and ancillary to beverage,
(12:26):
I would say.
And what are some things that you're seeingthat are becoming innovative trends in the
beverage space?
Are you seeing a lot of like the beverages thatare like good for your digestion?
Any themes that you're seeing on the beveragespace specifically?
Yeah, I mean, I think there is a lot of like,you know, I think like three broad categories
(12:48):
would be health and wellness related, which iswhere we see the lot of like, you know, zero
cal.
We have a lot of like, you know, brands andSKUs that support that.
Whether if you want like a non alcoholic beeror beer that has a lot of products for that.
And then the second is a lot of, I would sayrelated to energy drinks where we see a lot of
(13:20):
boom there and then the last would be a lot ofnatural ingredient related like you know
products products as opposed to artificialingredients like organic and natural.
Those are the three top like, you know,subcategories that we are seeing or the
segments that we see a lot of traction thesedays.
Yeah.
And then are you seeing any food tech beinginvolved as far you know, you talked about lab
(13:43):
grown.
I've been in the the lab grown meat space.
So I'm familiar with using bioreactors for, youknow, for growing food.
But what are the technologies that you'reseeing that are being adopted to innovate in
the beverage space?
Are they using types of algae to improvedigestion?
Is there any kind of lab grown applications,you know, using a bioreactor?
(14:07):
Don't know if you've
Yeah. Been involved
Been involved in We have a big thing onbiotechnology and we're exploring a lot of that
space.
We also have a big like, you know, barley, everpro, ever wheat up protein that's a huge
innovation that we like, you know, building andwe are scaling at this point, which is
(14:32):
essentially protein or barley converted intoprotein, I would say.
I think like the specifics, the people canlike, you know, mention it like more clearly on
the component of it, but that's something that,you know, we, it's a big venture that we have
that's built out of St.
(14:54):
Louis factory in, yeah, in The US.
Yeah, and you know, I want to go back a littlebit to your career, because I have a very
similar background that we talked about this.
So I have an electrical engineering background,and then I also worked in product.
So I have my own opinions about how thatbackground and skill set helped me, but how do
(15:18):
you think that helped you?
And then some of the people on this call areworking in technology, they're working in
consulting, baking, they're trying to get intoventure.
So any advice that or any piece of wisdom thatyou would share to kind of help you to help
them kind of break into venture from maybe atraditional technology or consulting role and
(15:38):
what worked for you?
That's a great question.
I'm actually thinking like, you know, whileyou're asking what worked for me.
I think like, think general inquisitiveness tothe business, to the financials and the
investments and being curious about it, thinkthat's the first.
(16:01):
From a skill set standpoint, I think there area lot of transferable skills especially from
consulting or from technology right.
Consulting especially I would say because likeI was in marketing analytics consulting.
So when you look at that like you get like youtend to look at a lot of businesses and you
have this outside the box perspective, right?
(16:23):
Like out of box perspective where you bring inlike you're not like looking at one business in
one industry.
So I think those are the skills that are verymuch needed like being able to think about like
multiple businesses and like the P and Ls andeverything like you know how it works.
And I think the last I would say from a techstandpoint, I think tech is always evolving,
(16:43):
right?
Like there are like you know, it depends onlike what sort of venture capital anyone wants
to get in, but then like you know, especiallyif you're looking at a venture capital that's
like heavily investing in SaaS basedbusinesses, there are like a lot of skills that
go a long way especially in value creationbeing more on the operating side.
I think those are the things that I would thinkabout like even although like I am not an
(17:06):
investor, I'm more on the operating side.
I think that gives me a direct visibility intohow like the investment committee makes the
decisions, what goes into making the decisions,how can I support it from an operating
standpoint, right?
Even that is really interesting and eye openingand I think like people who find it difficult
directly as an investor to as an entryway intoventure capital or any of the private equities,
(17:31):
I think operating side is, I would say is agood like you know, option as well for some of
the folks who might be, like, very very keen ongetting into that space.
Yeah.
And I think you gotta find your entry point.
Right?
So I think the fact that you had some analyticsand product background that got you into these
ZX Ventures even though it's not the specificinvestment team role and Yeah.
(17:54):
I think based on our conversations, you do workdirectly with the investment team.
You're involved in some of the Yeah.
Decisions.
Obviously, a lot of that gets tracked andthere's some data.
So
you know it's much closer than not being at thefirm and you know being related to that.
I think you know getting those initialexperiences, trying to find your way in right,
(18:14):
so if you have a product or analyticsbackground and there is an analytics role that
is out of fund, at least you're out of fundversus IBM, right?
No disrespect, I don't think anybody here worksat IBM, but you know IBM is a great place to
work, My brother-in-law works there, but yeah,so I think that's a good point and that's what
works for me as well.
(18:34):
So when I was in engineering, I thought, hey,know, I'm good at technology, but I'm also good
with people, And I like coordinating andworking with different personalities.
So that's kind of how I broke into product.
But then when I wanted to break into venture, Iused kind of my product sense.
And I said, hey, when I'm supporting thesedifferent founders, one thing that I can do to
(18:56):
add value is look at the product, givefeedback, test the app, download it, and really
give some meaningful value based on what Ithought the product was doing.
And then from ZX Ventures standpoint, when youguys are looking at interesting companies, what
(19:16):
are some of the KPIs that you look for likewhen you're evaluating them?
Obviously, it needs to be in the same sectorthat you guys are interested in, right?
So it needs to be in the category that isinteresting, but are there any specific KPIs
that you've seen as a pattern that says, hey,you know what we've made, we've made these few
investments and they all have these traits,maybe they have 100 ks in revenue every month
(19:41):
or they're growing by X percentage, I guess arethere some things that from a data and
quantitative side has been helpful to kind ofhave a system in place to be able to source and
screen effectively?
Yeah, so I think we also like, you know, it'snot just like investments that we make, we also
incubate our own like, you know, ventures,right, like when we are preceding and seeding.
(20:04):
So from a standpoint of like, if you separateout like, you know, investments versus like
things that we start on our own, like, which iswhere we precede and see, It's a it is in the
initial stages, it's all about, like, you know,three main categories, which I would call it
as, like, the commercial metrics, like, thebrand related metrics.
How does the brand resonates?
(20:25):
What is your what is the PR looking like?
And, commercially, like, you know, what is yoursales, like distribution, offline, online
distribution.
Those sort of metrics or like if you're lookingat a b2c business, it's about like you know the
consumer growth, know the order rate and thingslike that, right.
So if you think about the KPIs, it's all aboutlike you know your product liquid testing, the
(20:49):
brand KPIs and commercial KPIs, right?
And then we start to look once the businessevolves, when it reaches like from the initial
testing of the product or the desirability ofthe product, when it becomes to more of the
viability and the feasibility stage, that'swhen we look at KPIs from a financial
(21:11):
standpoint, from an investment standpoint.
At the point of time, it's always like, youknow, what is your the typical profit and the
cash flow besides that we also look at ARRvalue, we look at like, you know, sales and
marketing spend like, you know, how does it,you know, how is it looking in conjunction with
the net revenue because at the end of the day,you don't want to be buying consumers, you
(21:33):
don't want to spend so much to the point whereyou're buying consumers.
So we look at all of these things on aconsistent basis.
So on a monthly basis, there is a data drivenmemo that goes out to the management committee
looking at each business from an objectivestandpoint, eliminating all the subjectivity
(21:53):
surrounding it, right.
Like you could create a great product with agreat packaging and a great messaging.
We eliminate all of that and just paint thestory looking at all of the KPIs and that's
what like you know all the general partners andthe managing directors get it on a monthly
basis.
So that they can look at business to businessacross countries across like you know, across
(22:15):
different strategic pillar that we have to seewhat it means, right.
So that's what I would say from a KPIstandpoint.
But for more established growth level business,we look at like, you know, what is the IRR is
looking like?
What is the MOEIC factor looking like?
And also the, you know, the cash flow andeverything.
(22:39):
That's for more like an established businessthat's in the growth stage.
But in the early stage we're always looking atjust not just the financial and investments,
we're looking at a lot of additional KPIs.
But they are like you know standardized andstandardized across regions.
And while the KPIs are standardized, thebenchmarks are set based upon the country
(23:01):
specific you know.
Simple example, you're looking at a NPS scorein US against an NPS score in Asia, it will be
completely different.
Know the benchmarks will be very differentbecause of the cultural nuances and how people
react you know on a scale of one to 10, howwell like you know more consumers in U.
S.
Are leaning towards to give you know seven.
(23:23):
But this for the same seven it will be like atwo in like you know in certain countries and
regions.
So the benchmarks are set based upon eachregion and the market and the category within
the particular country But from a KPIstandpoint, we tend to remain consistent across
regions.
Yeah.
Double clicking on that, that's a reallyinteresting insight because I I did an
(23:45):
internship at General Mills, you know, when Iwas in school, and it was really interesting.
I was working on a few different products, butsome of the products in India and Asia, they
it's a completely different ingredient, youknow, they probably have a lot of masala in the
Asian they have these corn chips, it's likeBugles.
I don't know if you know Bugles, but it's likea chip that's shaped like a cone.
(24:09):
And realized that in Asia and in India, theseasoning is different, In India, a little more
spicy.
Here we've got like cool ranch, So it's likecompletely cheddar cheese and cool ranch.
So that, you know, so I could definitely saylike probably when it comes to food, probably
that might taste bland to some other countriesbecause they like that.
(24:32):
And I'm also ethnic, So I love, I put hot sauceon everything and I probably would fail some of
the NPS scores, but what's the NPS scoredifference that you think is being triggered
over beverages?
Because is it that like maybe a beverage is toosweet for something?
I guess what are some of those trigger pointsthat you're noticing?
(24:54):
And that's really interesting when you thinkabout cross border because then you still have
to make a different skew for Asia and India andmaybe The Middle East as well.
So when we think about our incubations, we do aseparate liquid testing, right?
To look at the parity of the liquid againstlike a few other competitors.
(25:20):
In that we look at the sessionability of theliquid, we look at the taste profile, we look
at the flavor profile.
So most often it's when we are thinking aboutlike early stage of PC adventures, it's
completely a different product altogether,know.
There are like you know products like HoeGarden that you have it in US as well as in
(25:42):
China, but those are more like in the growthstage at this point, I would say.
Sure.
But even in that, like there are differentflavor profiles that are tuned to this a
certain culture, certain region.
You know, certain fruity flavors tend to workbetter in Asian culture in comparison to U.
S.
Market, would say.
(26:03):
That's something that we have found throughinsights.
But from a standpoint of NPS, it's more aboutlike, it's a promoter score to understand
whether would you recommend this product toone, to your friend or not, right?
What it is.
Even when you think about it, you think aboutwhether you're comparing your own product
against like a competitor's product, they willpretty much rate the same because culturally, I
(26:27):
think what it is is that, you know, you don'ttend to give a higher rating for anything that
is good, you know.
Sure.
I'm Yeah.
I think like, I I mean, immediate thought thatcame to my mind is that, you know, even if I
would get, like, you know, a top score, myparents would be, like, good.
You know?
It's not basic.
Whereas, like, you know, in the Not an o plus.
It's gonna
(26:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
You know?
So I think I didn't even think about thatbecause the the standards might be higher for
different cultures.
Exactly.
So even that's important and the standard forlike for example, a premium craft beer is
different from a standard for a premium craftbeer here in The US, right?
Because you have a lot more like lot moreoptions.
(27:09):
So you expect a lot more as well.
In an evolving market or a growing market,don't have that much pool of like, you know,
then therefore, like your expectations alsolike varies.
It's a combination of everything, but what I'mtrying to say is that it's important to have
the right benchmarks in place so that you'llknow what you're comparing against in terms of
(27:30):
your competition.
Not only that, need to know where you stand inthe competition.
That's extremely important.
That I think that's extremely crucial.
At the end of the day, you can have the rightKPIs in place.
You can come up with like a, you know, a wholelot of like 100 KPIs, but at the end of the
day, if you don't know what the right benchmarkis, then you would really don't know where you
(27:52):
are standing, know.
So that's important, especially in the earlystage.
When you're in the growth stage, then you havea lot more measures like market share, market
penetration that you can look at and like youknow, sort of have a sense of like how you're
performing and then most often the P and L isactually a reflection of your business, right?
Like you don't need to like dig into more ofthe granular metrics, you will probably need to
(28:16):
identify where you can spot issues ahead andfix it from a strategic standpoint, but
especially in the early stage, think this issomething that I've noticed is setting the
right benchmark has been extremely crucial.
And when you guys are incubating, I I see italmost like an innovation lab.
Right?
So Yeah.
What are the teams that you need to puttogether to be able to build a brand?
(28:39):
You know, who is composed of that team?
Is it like a science like a food scientist ormarketing people, branding people?
Guess what's kind of like your core teamusually when you guys are incubating something?
So we usually have a product owner who is sortof like a think of it as like a founder sort of
a role.
(28:59):
Cool.
They are doing all of the work, right?
Like essentially from like, you know, workingwith the lab to create the liquid and then
packaging, creating it and all of that.
So the product owner pretty much owns theproduct and they work with the commercial team,
they work with the supply team, they work with,then they work with the sales reps.
(29:25):
So the product owner is a core of the productand they work with the supply team and the
different team that we seek help from the ABIwhere there are synergies and that's how they
go about it.
But it's essentially the product owner that islike, you know, that's playing sort of the the
owner of the of of different initiatives ofdifferent ventures that we have.
(29:48):
Okay.
Yeah.
That's really helpful.
And, you know, and then how I guess you couldtake it as far as you can take it, right?
Because I guess, I understand the, you know,obviously the very literal numbers of the,
know, is it getting any revenue?
Is it getting any possible early adopters?
Right?
Because I'm sure you do a pilot and get somefeedback.
(30:09):
But when you look at brand and also I think youmentioned PR as another KPI.
So how do you measure the brand?
Is that more just qualitative surveys?
And then with the PR, how do you measure that?
Do you do a couple of test Twitter posts andthen see who who responds to that?
And sorry for migrants, I probably don't.
(30:29):
No, no, no, no.
I like the questions.
I mean, I wish like, you know, more people askthese kind of questions because a lot of people
when they think about brand, they only thinkabout like, you know, the traditional brand
agencies and they are expecting to do surveyand then the trial rate, know, but what we're
looking at is pretty much in the early stagesor like awareness to the product, right?
(30:49):
Are you aware of the product?
That's essentially what we are testing.
And for that to test, we look at a lot of wehave a framework in place where we look at
different metrics, PR is one of the labor.
And in terms of PR, we are essentially lookingat magazines, consumer PR, trade PR.
(31:10):
So we have, there are like a lot of platformsthat would enable a lot of brands to track some
of this information, right?
So you can say that this is a brand that islike launched and then you can pretty much set
up a tracker and then see what is how manymentions, PR mentions has happened, how many
consumer mentions has happened and how does ittranslate to the brand's like awareness and how
(31:35):
does it what does it mean for the brand'sinterest?
Besides that, we are I mean you can have anarticle on a beverage magazine, right?
But what does it mean?
Know at the end of the day you want to knowwhat sort of like awareness that it generated.
That's what we're trying to look at and besidesthat we look at a lot of the social
(31:58):
engagements, engagements on social media, howmany followers we have, how many influences,
like organic influences we have garnered.
So we have a framework where we look at acombination of survey, combination of our
organic and paid and reach on the social, onthe e commerce channel, I'm sorry, on the
(32:22):
online channel and then the PR and then we alsohave the survey that covers for the offline
channel.
So it's a combination of looking at like, youknow, different things so that at the end of
the day, we are eliminating the noise that youwould get from, you know, looking at only one
channel.
But what we are essentially measuring in theearly stages, like what does that awareness
mean for the product?
(32:43):
Mhmm.
Okay.
Yeah.
That's really helpful.
And then when you look at the awareness, Iguess the you know, what what happens if you're
not meeting those metrics?
I guess you can just put that on pause and thenmaybe work on another brand project or maybe
that product manager pivots?
Have that has that happened where you've had tokind of repivot the strategy?
(33:04):
Yeah.
Times.
And that's the thing that we look at.
We look at it over our seeds are like runningfor a period of time and then we consistently
evaluate like I said like every month where isthe focus and we have this traffic lights that
we provide to see that green, red, yellow,green is like it's you know consistently doing
(33:24):
well you know traffic lights.
Well anything that's really watch for it to saythat hey this is not like you know there's no
traction on any levers like you know there isnot much interaction from a brand perspective,
there is no interest or awareness of the brand,Not just that we're not seeing much like you
know interaction from a commercial standpointin terms of the sales data that we have.
(33:47):
There is not much repeat purchase.
I think we look at it like consistently and ifwe see a consistent trend then that's a call
for us to say this is not working.
So we need to pivot.
We need to either like you know think about analternate strategy, see if we can change it.
If not, think at that point of time we justmake a decision to kill it and like you know
focus on something better.
(34:11):
That has happened in the past and that's whatyou know you test and run, right?
Like when you're in the pre seed and the seedstage that's what you're looking at, right?
Like so that's happened for us and that's wherethe data comes in like really really helpful
because we've had occasions where the brandstory is amazing.
You look at the brand image, you look at thepackaging, you look at everything.
(34:34):
Everything looks great on paper right but thenwhen you start to look into the details and
that's when you see that it's not working youknow.
So that I mean as a creative and a brandmanager I would have loved this When you start
to look at the numbers, they don't add up.
There has been multiple occasions where we haveto we had to kill some of the passionate
(34:55):
ventures, but I think that only benefits us inthe long run to focus on things that are
working well.
Sure, let's talk about the future.
So something that I've seen recently that'sinteresting is SOSV, they have glyph, so it's a
whiskey that ages much faster.
So they use some type of lab grown technologyto be able to allow whiskey to age much faster.
(35:19):
So what do you see that's happening from maybea deep tech perspective in the future for
beverages, and do you guys do whiskey or justmore, you know, soft I drinks and
wish we did.
We don't.
Focused on a lot of wine, I would say, but notmuch of whiskey.
But I think the most like upcoming spaces inthe bio brewing side, I think that's where I
(35:41):
see a lot of like, know, focus, not just likefrom ZX or ABI perspective, think from the
future, when you read about it from an, youknow, biotech perspective, there is a lot of
like, you know, bio growing that's spokenabout.
And I again, I think the other thing is that,you know, the use of spent grain for creating
(36:02):
alternate proteins and like, what can we gainfrom that, right?
I think that's something that the whole like nomeat, alternate meat, the protein space is
something that I think it's definitely spokenabout in the organization widely as well as
like you know what you see in the market.
So I mean, if I would have to pick on twothings, those would be the two things that I am
(36:27):
interested in, I'm curious and that's probablywhere I think the organization might focus as
well.
Yeah.
I think it'd be really interesting too.
I don't know if they've ever piloted likeprotein in beer, but you know, I know they had
beer that because what kills you with beer isthe carbs, right?
So so I know that they do have like low carb.
Yeah.
And I think they have just, you know, beerthat's just a little more lightweight.
(36:52):
But I think if they had beer that was good foryou, you know, obviously that would be really
interesting too because then there's maybe somenutritional value and there could be some
technology to maybe provide that from like achemical.
Yeah, we recently had like a lot of likevitamin D sort of good for you and I think even
(37:14):
if you look at the calorie content for carbs ina lot of like, you know, SKUs that we have,
they are pretty amazing, it doesn't compromiseon the taste.
You open my wall, send you a list that youneeded to try, you know, so yeah.
And where could other people if they want tomaybe apply to CX Ventures, if they're
(37:35):
preparing, what are maybe some news articles orblogs that they should read to hear about the
hottest trends and beverages?
Are there any blogs or websites that yourecommend for people to follow?
Bandnet is one, I would say, which has whole ofupcoming like news about every single thing
(37:56):
that's happening in the web page space.
I mean, traditionally, I would say follow RZAccenture page on LinkedIn on everything that
is there.
So that's when you can get to know what arecool investments, what is happening in our
space.
But I think like anybody is interested in ZF,I'm happy to speak to them one on one if
there's anything that anybody wants to knowmore about.
(38:20):
And we have a lot of roles open as well and youcan check them out on LinkedIn, which is, yeah,
I think we're looking at a lot of investmentroles at this point.
And not just like ZX, I think we can also like,you know, ABI is a good great place as well.
Even they do a lot of investments within ABI,which is focused on beyond beer.
(38:45):
So I would highly encourage like, you know, whyyou might be interested in ZX.
ABI is also an entry point for a lot of peopleto like, you know, people move between ZX and
AVI.
So so that's also an amazing place that I wouldrecommend anybody interested in the Valvaris to
look at.
No.
That's great.
Well, got you know, thank you so much.
You know, we got about ten minutes.
So guys in the audience, you guys have anyquestions?
(39:15):
All right, well, they're thinking of questionsor if they don't have any questions.
One thing that I always ask the guests beforewe wrap up is any piece of life advice that you
would share with us?
You know, you've pivoted a few times and nowyou're really in the venture space.
So, know, with those life experiences andprofessional experiences, anything that you
want to share with us as just maybe generallearnings or advice?
(39:39):
I think what I would say is be ready to beflexible and pivot and change, know, you never
know what opportunities you would get and whereit would take you.
I think, like I said, I think like I neveranticipated me being in a venture capital.
I never even envisioned a group that'sdedicated to data and analytics within a
(40:02):
corporate venture capital.
So I think initially I could have like, youknow, when this opportunity came, I could have
completely been oblivious to it, to the factthat okay, this is not something meaningful.
But I think like, you know, curious and beingopen to it and being flexible about a lot of
things, I think like, know, really helps.
(40:23):
I think that is one thing that I think like,you know, I would say that has helped me, you
know, professionally and like, you know,otherwise being flexible and being open to
change and the ability to pivot, right.
You might not be tied to a solution, you mightbe like, you know, flexible to change, know,
that's something that no matter whether you'rean entrepreneur, like you should, at one point
(40:45):
you would have to pivot, right?
So I think that like, you know, helps in every,I think like every sphere of life, think, yeah.
Yeah, no, that's really helpful.
Well, guys, if you don't have any questions,maybe we they can try to get ahold of you at
some point is what's the best way to get aholdof you or to reach out to you for questions?
(41:06):
I mean, you have my number, can always like,know, text me or you can reach me on LinkedIn
or I can leave you my personal email addresshere and then like, you know, text me, I'm
happy to chat more.
We're always looking for like, you know, techand analytics talent, anybody's interested, I'm
happy to share.
(41:26):
We're always looking for, you know, talent inin data technology and analytics.
Yeah.
Great.
Well, thank you.
Yeah.
Well, I posted your LinkedIn.
That way the whole world doesn't get your cellphone number And I'll try to point people in
the right direction.
But thank you so much.
I know it's, you know, getting late into theevening.
(41:47):
So hope you have a great rest of the week andand really great.
Yeah.
Really great.
Thankful for the friendship.
No, thank you.
I mean, I really enjoyed.
I think it was very rarely people ask aboutdata and analytics in a CVC and I'm so glad
like somebody was interested to know about it.
And I keep telling everybody it's not like asupport function.
It's a must have.
(42:07):
It's a it's a lead team that, you know, drivesdecisions.
So I'm glad we were able to connect and talkabout it.
So
Yeah.
Me too.
I mean, I'm a little bit of a data nerd becauseI worked in fintech for some time.
So when I think about data feeds and when Ithink about processing data, know, of that just
comes back to me.
Great to a like minded person, but I hope tocatch up soon and you know, we're both in so
(42:31):
New we'll organize something at some point.
All right.
For sure, for sure.
Thank you so much.
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