the JustPod
Podcast for the Criminal Justice Section of the American Bar Association. We'll talk current issues in criminal justice reform, policy and the Supreme Court. We'll discuss the work of the Criminal Justice Section including events, Task Forces, Standards, the ABA's ICC project and more. This is the Criminal Justice Section of the ABA’s podcast, and may not contain official ABA policy statements. For the ABA’s Code of Online Conduct visit here: https://www.americanbar.org/about_the_aba/codeofconduct/
Episodes
We are well into the era of artificial intelligence and TikTok, and both are having dramatic impacts on our lives. Trial practice, and criminal defense practice, are not immune from that influence, which is perhaps unsurprising given that trials and criminal defense are a mirror, in some ways, of the state of our society at large.
We had the opportunity to catch up with David Oscar Markus to discuss arti...
In this White Collar Talks episode, ABA CJS Chair Nina Marino and program co-Chairs Joe Whitley and Brian McEvoy discussing the upcoming 12th Annual Southeastern White Collar Crime Institute in Braselton, GA, September 9-11th.
For over a decade, the ABA Criminal Justice Section’s Southeastern White Collar Crime Institute has been the premier regional program for professionals engaged in the defense, prose...
Jennifer Doleac is a Stanford-educated economist, a former college economics professor, and the author of The Science of Second Chances: A Revolution in Criminal Justice, published by Henry Holt and Company and available in print as of February 24, 2026.
We spoke with Jennifer about her new book, which isbilled as “Freakonomics for criminal justice,” and explores real-world experiments that s...
When a person is sentenced to death, the case is not over. Some of the most critical legal work happens after the trial and direct appeals are finished. That’s where habeas attorneys step in, often years later, to uncover constitutional violations, investigate what was missed, and ask a fundamental question: did the system get it right?
John Hutchins has spent years representing death row inmates i...
“White Collar Talks with Nina and Joe” episode features Lucian Dervan, discussing the upcoming 2026 Global White Collar Crime Institute, July 13-14, 2026, in Singapore. which will bring together senior practitioners, government officials, judges, and scholars to examine the evolving and increasingly complex landscape of international white collar crime. Hosts are Nina Marino and Joe Whitley.
In 2007, FBI agents showed up at the home of Portia Louder and her husband Chad. Their youngest of five children was just three months old at the time. Seven years later, in August 2014, Louder pleaded guilty to wire fraud and conspiracy. And on the morning of April 21, 2015, she and Chad left their home in Utah on a 14-hour drive to the facility where Louder would self-surrender in order to commen...
This being “Second Chance Month,” it’s a perfect time to share our discussion with Jessica Jackson and Erin Haney—respectively, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Policy Officer of the REFORM Alliance, the justice initiative founded by Philadelphia-born and Grammy-nominated rapper Meek Mill and others.
When Mill was sentenced, in November 2017, to a term of two to four years in prison for techn...
Program Co-Chairs Maggie O’Donell and Aitan Goelman discuss the history of the ABA Criminal Justice Section’s White Collar Crime Institute and the upcoming 2026 program on March 10-13, 2026 in San Diego, CA. "White Collar Talks" are hosted by Nina Marino and Joe Whitley.
The ABA White Collar Crime Institute is the nation’s premier forum for insights, updates, and expert analysis in the field o...
Josh Hoe is Senior Policy Manager at Dream.org, and the host and creator of the Decarceration Nation Podcast. Josh, who is himself formerly incarcerated, is the author of “Writing Your Own Best Story: Addiction + Living Hope.” We connected to discuss Josh’s recent writing, in which he argues that the so-called “National Emergency on Crime” is not real, and why we should reje...
This is the first episode in our two-part discussion with Tom Hayes, who we first spoke with in April 2025. At the time of our first discussion with Tom, recorded in Part 1 of this series, Tom was awaiting a decision of the United Kingdom’s Supreme Court on the appeal of his August 2015 conviction, arising from his work submitting rates on behalf of bank he worked for, which were used to determine the Lo...
This is Part 2 of our two-part discussion with Tom Hayes, the now vindicated former English banker, who we first spoke with in April 2025. At the time of that earlier discussion with Tom, in Part 1 of this series, Tom was awaiting a decision of the United Kingdom’s Supreme Court on the appeal of his August 2015 conviction, arising from his work submitting rates, on behalf of his employer, a bank, that we...
In the Eastern District of Pennsylvania, home to Philadelphia and its surrounding counties, the U.S. Attorney is David Metcalf. We spoke shortly after the end of the government shutdown, at a time when the U.S. Department of Justice is under great scrutiny. The job of U.S. Attorney is always challenging, and even more so in the current climate, so we appreciated U.S. Attorney Metcalf generously sharing h...
Mark Loughney’s art has been exhibited at the Museum of Modern Art (“MoMa PS-1”), and published in The New Yorker and The Atlantic. His black-and-white ink drawings evoke a mix of M.C. Escher and Salvadore Dali, with surreal landscapes and bizarre figures. But Loughney is also well known for his series of prison portraits. They’re prison portraits, not only because they depi...
[For a complementary audio excerpt of Gary Tyler’s book, narrated by Cary Hite, describing the point when Tyler is considering accepting a government plea agreement, and starting life outside Angola, listen here. Copyright © 2025 by Gary Tyler. Audio excerpt courtesy of Simon & Schuster. Audio read by Cary Hite, from the audiobook Stitching Freedom by Gary Tyler, published by Simon & Schuster Aud...
The honorable Mark W. Bennett is a retired U.S. District Court Judge, and the former Chief Judge of the Northern District of Iowa. Judge Bennett retired from the federal bench in 2019, and is now Director Emeritus of the Institute for Justice Reform & Innovation at Drake University Law School.
Judge Bennett is known for his advocacy for sentencing reform—including his criticism of the federal s...
Joseph De Gregorio was raised in a middle-class working family in Brooklyn, and comes from a line of hard workers. His father regularly got up at 4am to work at a plant, where he was a machinist. Joseph himself had the opportunity to get into finance, but the allures of Wall Street, gambling, and addiction, ultimately took him down a path toward fraud, and eventually a federal criminal conviction and a t...
Joe Whitley (Womble Bond Dickinson) discusses the ABA Criminal Justice Section’s International White Collar Crime Institute (a special convening of the Global White Collar Crime Institute and the London White Collar Crime Institute) in Geneva, Switzerland on November 17-18, 2025, with Nina Marino (Kaplan Marino) and Lucian Dervan (Belmont University College of Law). Registration is ongoing at Criminal Jus...
Elie Honig is CNN’s Senior Legal Analyst, and a former federal prosecutor. He is the bestselling author of Hatchet Man: How Bill Barr Broke the Prosecutor's Code and Corrupted the Justice Department (published by HarperCollins in 2021), and Untouchable: How Powerful People Get Away with It (also published by HarperCollins, in 2023). Elie is most recently the author of the recently released book Whe...
Nina Marino, Joe Whitley and Brian McEvoy share in a meaningful discussion about the ABA Criminal Justice Section’s Annual Southeastern White Collar Crime Institute and what to expect at this year’s 11th conference next week at Chateau Elan, Georgia. Registration is ongoing.
What is the process for transferring a criminal defendant from U.S. custody to a foreign country? We learn this and more from our discussion with Bruce Zagaris, a Partner in the Washington, DC Office of Berliner, Corcoran, and Rowe, who is an expert on international prisoner transfers. Bruce is a widely known expert in the field of international criminal law, and is the co-author of International Crimina...
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