September 22, 2025 • 55 mins
In this episode of the Leadership Vision Podcast, we talk with executive coach and author Susan Inouye about her unique approach to leadership rooted in the Zulu greeting Sawubona—"I see you." We explore how Susan’s gift-centered model helps leaders build cultures of belonging, recognize the hidden strengths in others, and shift from command-and-control to connection and care.
📘 Mentioned in the episode:
- Susan’s Website
- Leadership’s Perfect Storm on Amazon
- Youth Mentoring Connection: youthmentoring.org
- Gallup’s State of the Global Workplace report
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've been really focused on helping executives
and senior managers betterconnect with their younger
people, their millennials, theirGen Zs, through this method
called Salbona, which, at theheart of it, is really about
helping people become the bestleaders and the best people
possible, and the byproduct formy clients has been an increase
(00:21):
in productivity and revenue,sometimes by 50%, in only six
months.
So there's a direct connectionand I know that a lot of
companies don't get it.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about our work,you can click the link in the
show notes or visit us on theweb at
leadershipvisionconsultingcom.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Freeberg and today on the
(00:58):
podcast, we are joined by SusanInouye, executive coach,
bestselling author and creatorof Swabona Leadership.
For more than two decades,susan has helped hundreds of
leaders make the shift frommanaging people to truly seeing
them, from authority toauthenticity.
Her work is grounded in theZulu greeting Sabona meaning I
see you, and that's theheartbeat of her message that
(01:20):
when we learn to see the peoplearound us, truly see them, we
can unlock transformation atevery level of our organizations
.
Now, in this conversation heretoday, susan shares powerful
stories about what happens whenleaders recognize the unique
gifts in others, including a fewsurprising examples from her
early work in film with at-riskyouth and in high-stakes
(01:42):
corporate environments.
Alongside my co-hosts, dr Lindaand Brian Shubring, we explore
how Swabona leadership createscultures of belonging,
engagement and deep humanconnection.
Now, as you listen, I want youto consider this reflection.
What gift might be hidingbehind the behavior that you
find most frustrating in someoneon your team?
(02:02):
Could it be that what you'reseeing as a problem is actually
potential waiting to berecognized?
This is the Leadership VisionPodcast Enjoy.
So, susan, I want to read thisintroduction that I kind of
cobbled together from a varietyof different your bio, your
(02:25):
website, some other stuff I find.
So I'm going to read this and Iwant you to fill in the gaps.
So today's guest is Susan Inouye, a visionary executive coach,
bestselling author and thecreator of Sawbone Leadership.
For more than two decades,susan has guided over 600
organizations across 40industries, helping leaders make
the shift from authority toauthenticity, from managing
(02:46):
people to truly seeing them.
She's the author ofLeadership's Perfect Storm, a
groundbreaking book thatexplores what millennials and
rising generations are teachingus about purpose, passion and
possibility.
But her work goes beyond thepage.
Susan is the founder of theSwabona Leadership Forum, a
powerful lab fortransformational change rooted
(03:06):
in the Zulu greeting I see you,a concept she uses to teach
leaders how to create culturesof belonging and connection.
She's coached executives fromFortune 500 companies, spoken at
top leadership and women'sconferences, and been honored
with a congressional award forher impact in both business and
community.
She also brings a deeply humanlens to her work, drawing from
(03:27):
her early experience mentoringat-risk youth and championing
the gifts that often lie hiddenbehind bad behavior.
Susan believes that the giftlies next to the wound, which
I'm excited to talk about.
That and that whole chapter,and her mission is to help
leaders uncover both inthemselves and others.
So welcome to the show, susan.
Fill in some of the gaps therefor us.
(03:48):
What did we miss?
What do you want to emphasizein that?
Like I said, we only have 10pages of notes, so hopefully
we'll find something to talkabout, but tell us just a little
bit more about who you areafter that little bit longer
introduction than I thought itwas going to be.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Thank you, nathan, that was so wonderful.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Well, it's all you.
I mean, this is all you'redoing, you know wow, where do I
start?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Maybe I can start by saying that you know, I guess
the theme of my life has alwaysbeen that I've always wanted to
make a difference in people'slives.
When I was young, I'd volunteerin the missions, I'd feed the
homeless on Thanksgiving Day andyou know, doing those things
they gave me such meaning andpurpose and touched my heart
that I looked for other ways tomake a difference and, oddly
(04:38):
enough, I discovered thetransformative power of films to
change lives.
And.
I was fascinated.
Long story short.
I ended up on scholarship tothe University of Southern
California in Los Angeles, whichis the film capital of the
world, and I graduated withhonors with a bachelor's in
mathematics and a minor in musicsomething much more practical
(05:01):
to please my Japanese Americanparents.
Okay.
But I think it was several.
Yeah, several years later Ientered a competition at the
American Film Institute throughthe directing workshop for women
and, against all odds, I wasone of a very small select group
(05:22):
of women who was chosen to begiven a $5,000 grant to do a
30-minute short.
And yeah, and so my film Solowent to festivals.
We won awards and I eventuallyended up in the office of
Kathleen Kennedy, who loved thefilm she was the assistant to
(05:44):
Steven Spielberg and I said, ohmy gosh, my life is going to
change forever.
Well, it did not in the way Ianticipated.
What happened was I justcouldn't get hired as a
first-time director.
This friend of mine he's a TVproducer he pulled me aside and
he said Susan, I hate to tellyou this, but it's so much
(06:05):
easier to hire first time mendirector than women.
And I can tell you I wascrushed.
And he said to me I have totell you the reality of the way
it is.
But I was, as I reflected on whyI wanted to do films.
It was really to help otherstransform their lives and I
(06:28):
began to realize it started withtransforming my own.
It was a good challenge that Icame against, because I started
to study really deeply andfiercely with teachers, from the
world of doing to teachers tothe world of being.
And I'll never forget.
I was at a networking one dayand a business colleague of mine
she came up to me and she said,susan, I want some of that.
(06:49):
And I went what do you want?
She said I've seen the positivetransformation in you and I
want you to coach me on startingmy own business.
Now, I got to tell you back then, 20 years ago, coaching wasn't
popular and, by the way, I wasan employee in sales in a
national communications company.
(07:10):
But she was really persistentand so I coached her to do the
same.
The byproduct was is that Ibecame the number one
salesperson in my company.
(07:31):
She made her first million inher first year and she looked at
me and she said, susan, this ishow you're going to make a
difference in people's lives.
And so that was the turningpoint for me, and that's why I
(07:56):
say coaching is my calling,because I didn't seek to be a
coach.
Wow.
And I think the last 13 yearsI've been really focused on
helping executives and seniormanagers better connect with
their younger people, theirmillennials, their Gen Zs,
through this method calledSalbona, which, at the heart of
it, is really about helpingpeople become the best leaders
(08:20):
and the best people possibleleaders and the best people
possible and the byproduct formy clients has been an increase
in productivity and revenue,sometimes by 50%, in only six
months.
So there's a direct connectionand I know that a lot of
companies don't get it.
Oh my gosh, there are so manyways to go.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
Oh my gosh, there are so many ways to go of the the
clients that you've worked with,the organizations that you've
worked with in the differentindustries, what has changed the
most or what has been the mostamplified?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
as you are, you know walking with leaders.
I'll tell you a huge turningpoint for me and I've had many
in my life, but this was hugebecause, as I work was working
with companies gosh, over 13years ago I just started getting
calls from leaders talkingabout they were so frustrated
with the millennial generation.
They didn't understand them.
Like how could someone quittheir job without another one to
(09:38):
go to?
And I had another exec say tome Susan, can you believe this?
I had a young man come into myoffice say how can I have your
job in five years?
And he had only been with usfor six months.
So there was so much pain andsuffering between generations
that I had to find a way to beable to help my clients.
(10:04):
Yeah find a way to be able tohelp my clients, and so this was
huge.
As I looked for ways to workwith the younger generation, it
was an executive client of mine.
He called me and said I haveyour answer.
He took me to the ghettos ofSouth Central Los Angeles and he
introduced me to Tony LeRae,angeles.
(10:27):
And he introduced me to TonyLeRae, who was the CEO and
founder of Youth MentoringConnection.
And Tony used to be a verysuccessful CEO who sold his
business and, for the past 10years, had been saving and
transforming the lives ofthousands of inner city
millennial youth through hismentoring program with
unprecedented results.
And I was just so fascinated byhis story because he actually I
(10:51):
mean went into the community,asked them what it would take to
engage with him and they toldhim he had developed what he
called the gift-centeredapproach, and it was at the
heart of the way he led, whichhe called Salbona leadership.
Okay, now, what was cool aboutthis?
He invited me to mentoringsession because I wanted to see
(11:14):
it in action, and when I went tothis mentoring session, we had
people of all differentgenerations, genders, ethnic
backgrounds, but the deepconnection that they had and the
way they engage each other thatbrought out the best in who
they were.
That's when I said to him look,I need you to mentor me.
(11:35):
I need to take this into thecorporate world, because I not
just saw a way of my leadersbeing able to better engage
their young people, but I saw away of creating cultures of
belonging.
Yes, and so he mentored me.
And the difference for me wasis that when I now went into
companies, uh, change waslong-term and sustainable.
(11:59):
And today salbon is.
And today Salbona is in over 30countries Wow.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
Yeah, congratulations .
Speaker 4 (12:11):
And how—I'm not sure how to ask this question when
you were saying that, is it apeer framework that's helping,
or is it a mentor to the youngergeneration?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Well, it's sort of reciprocal, because Salbona in
Zulu means I see you, and it'sabout seeing the whole person.
And when I've been, you know,doing keynote speaks and
conferences and millennialswould come up to me.
(12:43):
They would tell me they had lotsof needs, but the three needs
that kept echoing was to fillher, to use their gifts and to
have meaning and purpose intheir lives.
But, oddly enough, when I askedthe entire audience, which
consisted of many generations,how many of you want this too,
every hand went up because itwasn't a generational need, it
(13:06):
was a human need.
And so Salbona is so timelessand so powerful in the way that
it cuts through generalities,because it deals with the heart
of who we are as human beingsand what we all want.
You know, all of us want to beseen and accepted for who we are
(13:27):
good and bad and in Salbono wehave found that when you see and
accept people for who they are,they reciprocate.
They see and accept us for whowe are, and this different
conversation unfolds.
It's not one where we'relecturing to each other with our
right-wrong judgments, but onewhere we're listening and
(13:47):
learning from each other withopenness and curiosity.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
So fulfilling when you have someone who's asking
you for help.
Are they asking you for help tosee themselves more clearly or
to see the people they'reworking with more clearly?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Well, what people ask and what they think they need
is not always what they needRight, especially after you do
the assessment.
So, but usually people arefocused on others, that they're
doing it wrong.
Yeah, yeah.
Maybe I can share you a story ofone of my clients that will
(14:33):
explain kind of how Sal Bonoworks.
And this is just one.
I mean there's so manydifferent.
There's so much depth to it.
We enter through gifts, butthere's so much more depth.
It we enter through gifts, butthere's so much more depth into
how we do things, and that'smaybe we can talk about later
the somatic work that I do aswell.
(14:53):
But I'm thinking of this clientI'll call her Kathy and Kathy
was a director of tech supportof an IT firm.
They engaged my services to workwith the executives.
She was not one of them.
She came to me one day and shewas very upset, she was very
frustrated.
She said, susan, I don't knowwhat to do.
I'm going to have to fire myguy, jack, by Friday because
(15:20):
he's not making his monthlyquotas of new customers serve.
Now, jack is a millennial.
And she said I've triedeverything.
Now you have to understand.
She was trying to get Jack toconform to the way she was
brought up, which is command andcontrol, the carrot and the
stick.
And so she was giving himincentives, she was giving him
(15:41):
reprimands, and nothing wasworking.
She was giving him reprimandsand nothing was working.
And so, as we had conversationand I started to talk about
gifts and stuff, I asked her sowhat do you think Jack's gifts
(16:01):
are?
And I remember her looking atme going, uh, I don't even know
their own gifts, because it'swhat we do naturally, what we
were born to bring into thisworld, and we take them for
granted, right, our gifts.
And so I reframed the question.
I said why did you hire him?
And her eyes lit up and said ohmy gosh, because he's not like
any other tech guy.
He doesn't talk down to ourcustomers in that techie
(16:22):
language.
He gains rapport easily.
They ask for him by name.
He is so generous with his time.
He's great at solving the mostdifficult challenges and people
come to him all the time to askand he tells them how to do it.
He's great at coaching.
I said, ah, she said, but Idon't know what this is going to
(16:43):
help because I have to fire himby Friday, I said.
I said OK, wait, wait, wait.
So let's just step back, I said, and see a bigger picture of
this.
And I asked her.
I said what is Jack's retentionrate of his existing client
base compared to the other reps?
And she looked at me.
(17:05):
I don't know but why.
I said because he may be moreprofitable.
He may be serving less new ones, but retaining more of his
existing base.
And she said wow.
I said can you find out?
She said absolutely so.
I said but you're going to haveto move on this.
So she called me late the nextday and she said you'll never
(17:27):
believe it.
He has the highest retentionrate of all the reps and he is
more profitable.
And I went that is so great.
Now go to your boss, buy usmore time and let's brainstorm.
So she bought us more time andwe start brainstorming.
The first question I ask whenpeople are talking about
(17:47):
people's bad behavior is what isthe gift that is trying to come
out in his bad behavior?
Yes, and she sat and she sat.
She goes, wow, she goes well.
He's so generous with his timethat people take advantage of
him Right.
He can solve any complexproblem that there is.
(18:08):
So he's a resource of knowledge, he's good with coaching, he's
smart, he's intelligent, he'sdetailed.
She just, you know, once shegot on a roll, she got on a roll
Right.
And the next question was howcan we redirect his gifts to
better serve you, jack, and theorganization.
(18:30):
And so she thought about it andshe came up with a great idea.
She goes what if we had himcreate a training manual, give
away all of his secrets sopeople won't have to
continuously come to him?
I said great.
I said and how about if you usethat training manual to train
the entire department, becausehe's really good at training and
(18:52):
coaching?
And she said, oh my gosh.
I said, but you have to go toJack and see if you can get him
on board.
So she did.
And I said it would be good foryou to start by acknowledging
his gifts.
So she did, and he wasflattered.
He said wow, yeah, I feel great, right, so we did many other
(19:15):
things, but let me just sharewith you the results that what
we get?
The company got a trainingmanual.
Jack trained the entiredepartment.
Productivity and retention wentup across the board.
This is the funniest part InJack breaking down what he did.
So naturally well, he startedto see areas where he could be
(19:35):
more effective and efficient.
And now he was making hismonthly quotas of new customers,
sir.
They had three straightconsecutive years of the highest
customer retention and Kathywas promoted from a director to
general managers.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
Wow, so rewarding.
How did you celebrate?
How did you celebrate, or whatdid gratitude look like for you?
Because it seems like such alife change that you were a part
of going back to this.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
You know, being on this earth to make a difference
this, you know, being on thisearth to make a difference.
Yeah, you know, I think whattouches me most is seeing the
change in Kathy andunderstanding that part of the
journey that I didn't share,that we did, was to be able to
understand herself.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
And how you know, it was really interesting.
She had certain gifts that Jackdidn't have.
We all, you know, a lot oftimes our gifts are someone
else's blind spots and viceversa and for her to start to
understand that there was adifferent way of doing this,
(20:47):
that you didn't have to demandit because demanding doesn't
work, especially with thisyounger generation and it
allowed her to see a differentway that was more long-term and
sustainable, and I mean it justchanged the whole team to be
able to see how they cametogether, how they got behind it
(21:11):
, because that was the way thatthey increased that retention.
I mean it was so beautiful.
I mean just really veryheartwarming.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Is that process that you just described with that
wonderful example?
Is that how most of yourleaders experience a
transformative work is bystarting with the ones that they
think are the problem, but thenit turns back on them?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Well, let's see.
Okay, I'll share.
I've got so many stories in myhead because I've had so many.
I'll share with you anotherstory, and this may get into the
semantic work that I do, whichwill be okay.
I had a CEO.
He called me, his head ofproduction for an event planning
(21:59):
company.
I'll call her Beth.
Beth was on the verge ofburnout and, if you can imagine,
she's the head of productionfor an event planning company,
so you can only guess that hercore gift was planning.
There wasn't anything that Bethdidn't plan.
Okay, and planning is also away to control things as well
(22:22):
too.
Okay.
So when I came in, she was onthe verge of burnout.
He knew she had, she had suchtalent, she's very creative in
her approaches and everythingelse.
There was also a lot ofcomplaints from her people, her
millennials, saying that she,you know, controlled them too
much and she didn't give themthe opportunity to use their
(22:43):
gifts and things like that.
So what happened is is that Ientered through Sal Bono her
gifts, and she saw her gift ofplanning.
But she also saw that sheoverused her gift until it
became her weakness.
And to every gift, there'sanother side to the gift, what
we're blind to a need to learn.
(23:04):
And I asked Beth, what do youthink that other side?
And of course, she said notplanning.
I said no, no, no, beth.
I said what do you have a hardtime do If you plan what's?
And she said uh, you mean goingwith the flow, being flexible.
I said yeah, yeah,no-transcript, yeah, she said I
(24:17):
would.
She said but, susan, there areso many really wonderful
memories I have with certainthings to give away.
I said that's okay.
I said this is not going to beabout getting rid of stuff.
This is about the feeling thatyou're going to notice in your
body when you let go ofsomething that's very dear to
you, and we're going to create aritual around it.
(24:38):
I also found out she was awonderful photographer.
So the ritual we created waswhen she there were things she
could just throw away, but otherthings.
When she held them.
She would hold them and shewould remember the memory of
what it brought to her and thenfeel the release of letting it
go as she took a photo of it,and later she created a
(25:02):
photography book of all herbeautiful stuff that she gave
away, and she had three piles ofwho she was going to donate it
to, so she knew it was going togo to someone else, right.
So she started to get used tothat feeling in her body of
letting go and it was the dooropener for us to then.
(25:23):
Her biggest breakthrough camewhen she one day told me she
always wanted to do trapezing.
I said what, what, what?
Trapeze?
Yeah, hindsight, yeah.
So she said when she was youngand in New York she saw a
trapeze app and she said when Iwas young, I always wanted to do
this.
So I said to her are you opento doing it now?
(25:46):
Would you be open to it?
She said no, I would.
So I found the New York Schoolof Trapeze on the Santa Monica
Pier.
I went to talk to the guy there.
I said hey look.
I said can I ask you?
This is what I need done, andhe laughed.
He said I have many execs thatdo similar things with us.
And I said, great.
(26:07):
So Beth started to repeatlessons and I got to tell you
this is the hugest breakthrough,because she replaced the
feeling of fear of letting gowith a feeling of freedom.
And now, all of a sudden shestarted to let go of whole
projects.
She started to get her balanceback.
(26:28):
She started to spend more timewith her husband.
People loved it because theycould start to contribute.
So that's sort of like asomatic practice, but you know
it's one of my bigger somaticpractices.
I have smaller, so I don't wantyou guys to get too scared.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
Did you get up on the trapeze?
Did you join her ever Did?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
you ever join her on the trapeze?
Did I ever join?
Speaker 1 (26:53):
her ever.
You know I never did, but itwould be something.
This is what I did.
To get comfortable withuncertainty, I went skydiving.
Okay, that'll do.
(27:26):
You hope it goes.
That being in uncertainty isnot what we think.
We have this big monster.
We create around uncertaintythat we are so fearful of it.
But when I jumped out of thatplane and we were doing tandem,
because they don't let you jumpout by yourself I thought I was
just going to drop and I didn'tdrop.
The wind underneath me liftedme and I felt like I was flying
(27:50):
like Superman.
It was so amazingly cool andthat feeling is like with me so
that when I get that reallyscared feeling of doing
something, I remember I bringthat back.
That's an anchor for me and itallows me to get centered and
grounded and make betterdecisions.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
So, susan, I got a question about the personal
rituals that you create.
Is this something, are therituals something that you are
creating for all the people thatyou're working with, and are
they all custom?
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Good question.
So what happens is, I think,what makes me different than a
lot of maybe other executivecoaches.
I don't have a program that Iput people through the first
month.
I find out who they are and Ido it in a very different way.
So most people do 360s.
I have found in my lifetimethat when I did 360s the exec
(28:51):
would get back to 360 and sayget very defensive and say I
know who said this.
Judy said this she doesn't knowme.
Oh, billy, nah, yeah, and theywouldn't, I would fight.
You know, it was like a tug ofwar between what they would
believe and what they wouldn't.
So, in my assessment, I havethem choose five people, even
(29:15):
what they wouldn't.
So, in my assessment, I havethem choose five people, people
that love them, adore them, willbe honest with them and that
they trust.
It could be their spouse, itcould be their children, it
could be their best friend fromcollege.
It doesn't have to be anybodyin the organization they get,
and these five people tell themwhat their gifts are and define
it, what their blind spots are,define it in terms of their
experience with this person.
(29:35):
And what happens is when theyget it back and they read it
I've had men cry, I've had youknow.
I mean, they just are sotouched and you get such depth
in this, such depth, so muchdepth, and then I give them.
So there's a couple of otherpre-coaching assignments, once
(29:57):
called my path to a life ofpurpose, and all these questions
allow me to filter the themesof who this person is on a deep
level.
And then I, we have this, wehave conversation, I have very
deep conversation.
I ask them all about theiranswers, because how they answer
sure tells me a lot about whothey are, just in what they
(30:21):
write and how they write it.
And after I ask all thesequestions, we do an intake,
because I ask them to focus onthree behavioral areas that
align with their external goalsthat they want to work on, and I
give them examples ofbehavioral areas, yep, so they
may talk about working on.
(30:42):
I want to work on my patients,I want to work on letting go of
control or whatever, and I thencome up with a one sheet which
has this is our purpose, wherewe're headed, these are the
behavioral outcomes to get there.
And by then they're really intune, because in the three, four
(31:07):
, five, five hours and I don'tdo a straight I'm slowly
coaching them to understand whothey are.
And so they get this one sheet.
If they approve it, it becomesthe outline for me to then
create a four stage program ofpractices, exercises,
self-observations that arecustomized to who they are.
(31:29):
And it's powerful because uh,also, I just have to say that
it's not extra stuff I find outwhat they're doing in their life
right and then I create apractice from there right
Speaker 5 (31:44):
well, and I hear it as the heart of what you were
saying.
I see you that that even in thecoaching and in the help and
moving them from one place toanother, it starts first with
them being seen.
A lot of times we also havevery non-traditional approaches
(32:04):
and a lot of times our clientswill say like I feel seen, I
feel heard, it's almost like youfeel us, and I think it's easy
to put people through a programand it's a lot more difficult
but also very artistic andrewarding to really meet people
where they're at and start touncover, like you were
(32:26):
mentioning, uncover their giftsand kind of put them on a path
of growing in the way that ismost conducive to them.
It's just beautiful.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
And part of the challenge that we often find is
that, as much as people want toshare with us where they think
they're at, it's a long journeyfor them to get from where their
head is at to where they areactually, and that process of us
sitting and listening to peopletalk like that may take a long
time before we realize, orbefore the person realizes,
(32:57):
where they are, not justprofessionally, but where
they're at personally, wherethey're at emotionally, how it
is that they're truly perceivingthe world around them, because
I think that there are, um, somany people that are reflecting
noise and not their identity toyou.
So my question for you is do youfeel like, when you're talking
(33:20):
to your people that you'recoaching, are you feeling them
kind of settling in to this ideathat they are being seen, where
they become more comfortablesharing with you, who they are
more comfortable with theirchallenges?
Do you find that that takestime?
Or are there people that aresometimes just they're just so
done that they're willing to beseen quite clearly?
(33:43):
Quite quickly, please see menow.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I think that's just kind of the reason why I like
the way that I do thisassessment of the reason why I
like the way that I do thisassessment, because, and then,
picking five people who theytrust and having them tell them
what their gifts are and definethem and what their blind spots
in terms of their experience.
And then when I go over, so whatdid Judy mean when she said
(34:08):
this?
What do you think she meant?
And all of sudden the stuffthat they would hide from me
comes out because of the peoplethat they've known their
lifetime, that they trust, andit just helps me to build trust
very quickly with them, becausethe people that they trust are
(34:32):
saying what I may be sensing,but it would be hard for me to
just go there without havingsomeone else say it.
And so that's what I find verypowerful in what I do, and it's
just I can tell you.
I create this amazingly safespace for them because in just
(34:53):
asking them to explain what youdo you think this person means,
and then I give them say youknow um, a reference to do you
think it might be because ofthis.
Or I see you said that you areum, that you haven't.
I'm thinking of a client I'mworking with right now.
(35:13):
You're saying that you love totake risk, but then I see, and
you don't like to control things, you don't like to let people
do what they do.
But on the other side I seethis other person saying that
one of the things that happensfor you with your people is is
that you know so much that yougive them the answer before they
(35:36):
have a chance to give theiridea, and that's a method of
controlling, and so I may bringpieces together and all of a
sudden they go.
Oh wow.
Okay.
You know what, and so I'mbuilding this trust that I could
not have as quickly as I have,because these people are saying
(35:56):
it for me.
Speaker 5 (35:57):
Mm, hmm in your life's practice.
Do you feel like even your loveof film helped and directing
has helped the ways that youallow people to live into their
(36:19):
story or uncover their story?
Are there any connections there, or is that just me wondering?
Speaker 1 (36:26):
No, I mean there's definitely connection there,
because I think entertainment,the arts, it helps me to be very
creative and innovative in theway that I see the world and I
can.
I think one of the things thatit helped me develop is the
sixth sense.
I can sense things about peopleand help them connect the dots
as to why they're doing whatthey're doing, and I don't even
(36:49):
know.
It's a feeling, it's a sense inmy body.
I was working with one client.
He had become very successfulbecause he called me, because he
had been promoted to nowdirector of operations of all
these restaurants, and thereason was is the single
restaurant that he was thegeneral manager had three
(37:09):
consecutive years of recordbreaking profits, had three
consecutive years ofrecord-breaking profits.
When I found out why he wassuccessful at this restaurant
was because he was there 24-7and like watching everything, he
said, yeah, I don't think thisis duplicatable.
I said, no, I don't think it'seither.
But what was funny is trust isnot black and white, because he
(37:32):
did trust his people up to acertain point.
We talked about it and hispeople told me they loved him,
they felt he trusted them fully.
But there was something that Ikept feeling and all the excuses
he gave to me of why it washard to fully let go, that had
to deal with his own self-trustof himself.
(37:54):
And something that was deeper,and all I did was I started to
say to him you know what I feel?
Something deeper.
And then I would let it go.
And one day, in the first monthwhen we were working together,
he said I don't think I evertold you that I was molested by
a baby sitter when.
(38:14):
I was a young boy and I justwent wow.
I said have you been gettingtherapy for that?
And he said yeah, I have.
He said I haven't had in thelast three years I've been so
busy.
I said okay, and I said do youthink that might have to do with
you not being able to trustyourself so you can fully trust
(38:35):
others?
And he just stopped and Iremember the blank stare and he
looked at me and said I thinkyou got it.
So I helped him get a therapist, get reconnected in therapist,
and the two of us workedtogether and I mean he's just
come out of it so beautifully.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
But connecting those dots I think, being in an
innovative, very creativeindustry like film and stuff,
you're constantly connectingthings that don't look connected
are you finding any themes um,with the people that you're
working with that have beenbecoming themes that have become
(39:16):
more dominant in the last fouror five years?
Is there anything that you'reseeing that's maybe changing in
people's personalities, theirthresholds for uncertainty?
Are you finding people justmore willing to ask for help?
Is there anything that you'reseeing like as a professional,
like this is a trend line I'mdefinitely seeing over and over
again.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, well, currently , you know, millennials are at
the high end 44 and they'redefinitely coming to me.
Millennials absolutely knowthat they need help.
Generations prior, gen X andboomers especially boomers know
that they're going to retire.
(39:57):
So if they come to me for help,it's because the board of
directors told them that theyhave five more years, and so
it's like holding their breathfor five years and I let them
know look, if you're going tohold your breath for five years,
I'm not the right coach for you.
But what happens, I'm finding,is that, first of all, young
people they do want guidance andhelp.
(40:20):
The hardest part about themgetting guidance and help is
that most companies today stilldon't put aside a budget for
growth and development.
Yeah, that's right.
And so it's very hard for themto pay for, you know, an
executive coach, because goodexecutive coaches, like we all
are, we're expensive, yes, yes.
(40:42):
So what I've been doing out ofthe goodness of my heart is is
that I've actually coached themhow to negotiate with their
company to get them to pay forthe coaching.
And I say to my millennials outthere, all you millennials out
there, that when you are goinginto any kind of leadership role
(41:06):
, you have to negotiate in youragreement a budget for coaching,
and if a company's not willingto do that, you're probably
going into the wrong company.
If the company's open to it,then you're going to a great
company, because the mostsuccessful companies require
their senior managers to havecoaches.
(41:27):
That's right.
Like the Nikes of the world,goldman Sachs, all these.
That's right.
Like the Nikes of the world,goldman Sachs, all these.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
So yeah, yeah, that's definitely a trend that we are
experiencing, the trend beingorganizations willing to make
investments in their leaders andthe strata or the layer of
leadership.
I don't know if we're seeing atrend line there, it's just the
investment in, and so that's oneof the things that we're
noticing is that there arepeople out there that not are
(41:55):
not only asking for help, butthere's an executive layer of
leadership that's realizing wehave to invest because of
whatever the churn is, you knowthat's along their their journey
.
I think that part of you knowwhat you're bringing to the
conversation, to theconversation is focusing on what
people bring, and we also findthat people want to be seen,
(42:18):
heard and understood, and thatreally is rooted in what they're
bringing.
Can you speak to the like, oncepeople are noticed for their
gifts and their contribution,how that may shape or change the
way that they see themselves?
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, you know, I mean one of the, I think,
strongest practices and it'svery simple that I give to my
clients is what we callgift-centered praise, and it's
different than regular praise.
It's about praising the actionand then the gift behind the
(42:58):
action and then the impact thatit has on them the person doing
it, the organization.
The idea is is that when, ifyou only praise the action
(43:30):
no-transcript but saying, oh mygosh, jack, you have your gift
of organization.
I see how you just are verymuch.
You know you can find things,you put things where they should
be, whatever, and you praisethat, and the impact that it has
on me is is that I never haveto worry about you borrowing
(43:52):
anything, I never have to worryabout trying to look for
something or whatever.
That person is going to findother ways to use his gift in
the organization rather thanjust do the same action.
And so they light up when youtalk about the gift, go, oh my
(44:13):
gosh, I do have that.
I mean, even if they don't sayyou can see their eyes light up
and go, whoa, okay.
And I've had my executives saylike things, like jack, how can
you take this gift oforganization and utilize it in
the project that we're doing tobring it all together?
Yeah.
And it's like now you're askingme to do something that has that
(44:36):
I can use my gift to get theresults, and you're not telling
me the exact way to do it.
You're saying here's the resultI want.
Do it in your way, using yourgifts.
That's when they get veryexcited and passionate and very
focused on yeah, okay, this iscool, right.
Speaker 5 (44:53):
Yeah, because I hear too that it builds that
relational connection so right.
So it's not just it'spurposeful praise, it's specific
, it's calling out the gifts andI think it's when you watch,
when we watch team members likestart to connect, like you
actually see me doing this, orit's valuable you can tell that
(45:16):
there is a kind of relationalconnection that helps build into
the culture.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Did you mention earlier that you do work with
teams around these concepts?
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
I do.
I work with teams, I doretreats, I do group coaching,
various other things too.
Yeah, I don't do.
You know what I do do trainingbut I don't do training Meaning.
I have found that training justgives people insight.
They get all very excited andthen they go back and life comes
along and then they forget it.
(45:47):
That's right.
So the group coaching modelthat I have is it's several
group coaching sessions and it'sindividual coaching sessions in
between that.
So what we're doing is we'rebuilding a foundation, we're
building a new habit that leadsto a new competency.
That's right and that's really,really important.
Speaker 5 (46:10):
Susan, is there anything that you would want us
to ask you in particular, or totee you up to say something that
you really want to share intothe world?
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah, you know what there is.
And this comes up because, well, let me just say this we are
all going through a veryinteresting and challenging
times right now.
Many companies are downsizing,they're laying off employees.
On the other side, employeesare leaving companies not, the
(46:43):
culture is changing in a waythat they are not aligned with
it.
That's correct, and whathappens when things get
challenging?
The first thing that companiescut is the budget for growth and
(47:06):
development of their people oftheir people because they do not
realize and they do not see thedirect connection between
developing and growing yourpeople into the best leaders
possible and increaseproductivity, revenues and
profitability.
And, however, the mostsuccessful companies do see that
connection, and this isactually backed up by a recent
(47:31):
survey by the Galluporganization their 2025 State of
the Global Workplace survey,where they point to the fact
that the companies that haveseen the least amount of
decrease in engagement are theones that put money into
training and developing themanagers.
That put money into trainingand developing the managers
(47:53):
Because if the managers areengaged, then their people are
engaged.
And today we're in a crisismode Globally.
What do they say?
79% of employees are disengagedworldwide, and that's because
73% of managers are disengaged,and when we think about what's
(48:16):
costing is they said it'scosting our global economy $438
billion in lost productivity.
That's right.
And that doesn't wake people upand going whoa.
And they say where the managersgo, the people follow.
So many managers are not beingtrained, not being coached, not
(48:38):
being given the tools they needand they want it, you know,
especially with AI andautomation happening.
That's right, and the biggestcomplaint is that they feel that
their bosses are ignoring itrather than stepping into it.
Speaker 4 (48:55):
Yeah, that last part of being ignored.
I think that you know thesocietal situation that you're
mentioning.
I feel that there are peoplethat do feel that sense of
lostness and they're desiringbeing found anywhere, and when
you can create that oh, I seeyou, I've found you in the
(49:18):
workplace I think that that canbe a real catalytic place for
transformation to occur, becausethere's usually strong
relationships there or historyof relationship.
There may be resources forinvestment, like you're saying,
and you spend so much time withyour colleagues.
I think it's a great placewhere people can be seen, and I
(49:39):
feel that wherever we can, likeyou said earlier, wherever we
can create safe places forpeople to feel that they are
seen and they have a sense ofbelonging, that the consequence
of that is increasedproductivity, higher levels of
engagement and even an elevatedsense of vision, not necessarily
a corporate or organizationalvision, but an elevated vision
(50:02):
of oneself.
Like I, can be different.
I think that part of themismanagement of gifts is that
we don't see the gifts in agenerative state ourselves,
because the environment itselfis suffocating or taking the
oxygen out of the place where wecan't thrive in that
gift-centered way that you'respeaking, to focus on getting
(50:34):
people's attention to the goodand right side of who they are,
how to name it in others, and tohow you ask people to
demonstrate the courage totranscend generational
boundaries and stereotypes tosee others as humans.
First, you know generationaltitles.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
second, yeah, first, you know, generational title
second.
Yeah, and one thing I want tosay too the reason like the
practice of gifts under praiseis so powerful is because it
puts a leader into observationmode.
Yeah.
And it gets them to start toobserve the actions of their
people.
And out of their actions, whatis that gift?
(51:11):
And we are so in a societywhere we're go, go, go that when
you go, go, go you cannotconnect with your people.
But if you're forced to observethem and you're forced to be
able to do gifts and praise, youhave to see them, you have to
watch them, you have to observethem, and it slows you down.
(51:32):
And this is why I love thegift-centered praise, rather
than doing an assessment whereyou're told they're gifts and
then you're looking for the gift.
It's different than when you'relooking at who they are and
then you discover it.
And you go, oh wow.
(51:53):
No, yeah so.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
Susan, this has been so great.
Thank you so much for takingthe time.
We're going to have links inour show notes to all of your
resources.
But I'm wondering, just to kindof close things out here, if
you could maybe share just your,your quickest, shortest sort of
nugget of someone who's beenlistening to this maybe it's a
manager who is interested inthis Sawbona culture, Like
(52:20):
what's the kind of lowesthanging fruit, Because we have
to start somewhere that youcould share.
That would be, you know, justtaking one step onto that
journey of seeing the uniquenessin their people.
Like what would just be kind ofthat one little takeaway.
Maybe someone could turn offthe recording and go walk out
into their hallway and say, likewe're going to just try this
today and practice.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
Okay.
So I'm thinking about apractice that's a really
powerful practice, simple, it'scalled walk in beauty.
All my clients love walk inbeauty.
Because what it is?
It's a meditative walk wherewhen you're walking, you walk
slower than you normally walk.
If you have a thought, you say,thinking, you let it go and
then you connect with nature andyou literally stop in front of
(53:05):
things that draw you in, ofbeauty, and you receive the
beauty of a tree.
And in being able just to openyour heart and just receive
beauty I mean because weactually naturally do it when we
hike and stuff people slow down, they go.
Oh, my God, the sunset, thelake, really being able to
receive that beauty allows usthen to be able to receive the
(53:29):
beauty in our people and to beable to see their gifts.
So walking in nature ispowerful, that's great.
Slow in nature, that's so good.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
That's good, thank you, I mean that's perfect.
Oh.
I love that, that's somethingthat we can go do right now.
Well, susan, thank you so much.
We really appreciate you takingthe time.
Any final thoughts?
Brian Linda final comments.
Speaker 4 (53:52):
No, that was.
Speaker 5 (53:53):
I'm still on my own little beauty walk we would like
we would officially like to bein your tribe.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
Yes absolutely, absolutely.
Thank you, susan.
We really appreciate it.
We will hopefully talk to youagain soon.
Yeah, thank you so much.
(54:24):
It was an honor to be here withall of you.
There is a link in our shownotes if you want to learn more
about Susan and her work, butthank you to everyone for
listening to the LeadershipVision podcast, our show helping
you build positive team culture.
To learn more about us, you canclick the link in the show
notes as I said, or visit us onthe web at
(54:45):
leadershipvisionconsultingcom.
We would appreciate it if youwould follow us wherever you get
your podcasts.
Follow us on social, sign upfor our free email newsletter.
But, most importantly, passthis along to someone who you
think could benefit from ourmessage.
My name is Nathan Freeberg and,on behalf of our entire team,
thanks for listening.
I've been really focused on helping executives
and senior managers betterconnect with their younger
people, their millennials, theirGen Zs, through this method
called Salbona, which, at theheart of it, is really about
helping people become the bestleaders and the best people
possible, and the byproduct formy clients has been an increase
(00:21):
in productivity and revenue,sometimes by 50%, in only six
months.
So there's a direct connectionand I know that a lot of
companies don't get it.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about our work,you can click the link in the
show notes or visit us on theweb at
leadershipvisionconsultingcom.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Freeberg and today on the
(00:58):
podcast, we are joined by SusanInouye, executive coach,
bestselling author and creatorof Swabona Leadership.
For more than two decades,susan has helped hundreds of
leaders make the shift frommanaging people to truly seeing
them, from authority toauthenticity.
Her work is grounded in theZulu greeting Sabona meaning I
see you, and that's theheartbeat of her message that
(01:20):
when we learn to see the peoplearound us, truly see them, we
can unlock transformation atevery level of our organizations
.
Now, in this conversation heretoday, susan shares powerful
stories about what happens whenleaders recognize the unique
gifts in others, including a fewsurprising examples from her
early work in film with at-riskyouth and in high-stakes
(01:42):
corporate environments.
Alongside my co-hosts, dr Lindaand Brian Shubring, we explore
how Swabona leadership createscultures of belonging,
engagement and deep humanconnection.
Now, as you listen, I want youto consider this reflection.
What gift might be hidingbehind the behavior that you
find most frustrating in someoneon your team?
(02:02):
Could it be that what you'reseeing as a problem is actually
potential waiting to berecognized?
This is the Leadership VisionPodcast Enjoy.
So, susan, I want to read thisintroduction that I kind of
cobbled together from a varietyof different your bio, your
(02:25):
website, some other stuff I find.
So I'm going to read this and Iwant you to fill in the gaps.
So today's guest is Susan Inouye, a visionary executive coach,
bestselling author and thecreator of Sawbone Leadership.
For more than two decades,susan has guided over 600
organizations across 40industries, helping leaders make
the shift from authority toauthenticity, from managing
(02:46):
people to truly seeing them.
She's the author ofLeadership's Perfect Storm, a
groundbreaking book thatexplores what millennials and
rising generations are teachingus about purpose, passion and
possibility.
But her work goes beyond thepage.
Susan is the founder of theSwabona Leadership Forum, a
powerful lab fortransformational change rooted
(03:06):
in the Zulu greeting I see you,a concept she uses to teach
leaders how to create culturesof belonging and connection.
She's coached executives fromFortune 500 companies, spoken at
top leadership and women'sconferences, and been honored
with a congressional award forher impact in both business and
community.
She also brings a deeply humanlens to her work, drawing from
(03:27):
her early experience mentoringat-risk youth and championing
the gifts that often lie hiddenbehind bad behavior.
Susan believes that the giftlies next to the wound, which
I'm excited to talk about.
That and that whole chapter,and her mission is to help
leaders uncover both inthemselves and others.
So welcome to the show, susan.
Fill in some of the gaps therefor us.
(03:48):
What did we miss?
What do you want to emphasizein that?
Like I said, we only have 10pages of notes, so hopefully
we'll find something to talkabout, but tell us just a little
bit more about who you areafter that little bit longer
introduction than I thought itwas going to be.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Thank you, nathan, that was so wonderful.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Well, it's all you.
I mean, this is all you'redoing, you know wow, where do I
start?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Maybe I can start by saying that you know, I guess
the theme of my life has alwaysbeen that I've always wanted to
make a difference in people'slives.
When I was young, I'd volunteerin the missions, I'd feed the
homeless on Thanksgiving Day andyou know, doing those things
they gave me such meaning andpurpose and touched my heart
that I looked for other ways tomake a difference and, oddly
(04:38):
enough, I discovered thetransformative power of films to
change lives.
And.
I was fascinated.
Long story short.
I ended up on scholarship tothe University of Southern
California in Los Angeles, whichis the film capital of the
world, and I graduated withhonors with a bachelor's in
mathematics and a minor in musicsomething much more practical
(05:01):
to please my Japanese Americanparents.
Okay.
But I think it was several.
Yeah, several years later Ientered a competition at the
American Film Institute throughthe directing workshop for women
and, against all odds, I wasone of a very small select group
(05:22):
of women who was chosen to begiven a $5,000 grant to do a
30-minute short.
And yeah, and so my film Solowent to festivals.
We won awards and I eventuallyended up in the office of
Kathleen Kennedy, who loved thefilm she was the assistant to
(05:44):
Steven Spielberg and I said, ohmy gosh, my life is going to
change forever.
Well, it did not in the way Ianticipated.
What happened was I justcouldn't get hired as a
first-time director.
This friend of mine he's a TVproducer he pulled me aside and
he said Susan, I hate to tellyou this, but it's so much
(06:05):
easier to hire first time mendirector than women.
And I can tell you I wascrushed.
And he said to me I have totell you the reality of the way
it is.
But I was, as I reflected on whyI wanted to do films.
It was really to help otherstransform their lives and I
(06:28):
began to realize it started withtransforming my own.
It was a good challenge that Icame against, because I started
to study really deeply andfiercely with teachers, from the
world of doing to teachers tothe world of being.
And I'll never forget.
I was at a networking one dayand a business colleague of mine
she came up to me and she said,susan, I want some of that.
(06:49):
And I went what do you want?
She said I've seen the positivetransformation in you and I
want you to coach me on startingmy own business.
Now, I got to tell you back then, 20 years ago, coaching wasn't
popular and, by the way, I wasan employee in sales in a
national communications company.
(07:10):
But she was really persistentand so I coached her to do the
same.
The byproduct was is that Ibecame the number one
salesperson in my company.
(07:31):
She made her first million inher first year and she looked at
me and she said, susan, this ishow you're going to make a
difference in people's lives.
And so that was the turningpoint for me, and that's why I
(07:56):
say coaching is my calling,because I didn't seek to be a
coach.
Wow.
And I think the last 13 yearsI've been really focused on
helping executives and seniormanagers better connect with
their younger people, theirmillennials, their Gen Zs,
through this method calledSalbona, which, at the heart of
it, is really about helpingpeople become the best leaders
(08:20):
and the best people possibleleaders and the best people
possible and the byproduct formy clients has been an increase
in productivity and revenue,sometimes by 50%, in only six
months.
So there's a direct connectionand I know that a lot of
companies don't get it.
Oh my gosh, there are so manyways to go.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
Oh my gosh, there are so many ways to go of the the
clients that you've worked with,the organizations that you've
worked with in the differentindustries, what has changed the
most or what has been the mostamplified?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
as you are, you know walking with leaders.
I'll tell you a huge turningpoint for me and I've had many
in my life, but this was hugebecause, as I work was working
with companies gosh, over 13years ago I just started getting
calls from leaders talkingabout they were so frustrated
with the millennial generation.
They didn't understand them.
Like how could someone quittheir job without another one to
(09:38):
go to?
And I had another exec say tome Susan, can you believe this?
I had a young man come into myoffice say how can I have your
job in five years?
And he had only been with usfor six months.
So there was so much pain andsuffering between generations
that I had to find a way to beable to help my clients.
(10:04):
Yeah find a way to be able tohelp my clients, and so this was
huge.
As I looked for ways to workwith the younger generation, it
was an executive client of mine.
He called me and said I haveyour answer.
He took me to the ghettos ofSouth Central Los Angeles and he
introduced me to Tony LeRae,angeles.
(10:27):
And he introduced me to TonyLeRae, who was the CEO and
founder of Youth MentoringConnection.
And Tony used to be a verysuccessful CEO who sold his
business and, for the past 10years, had been saving and
transforming the lives ofthousands of inner city
millennial youth through hismentoring program with
unprecedented results.
And I was just so fascinated byhis story because he actually I
(10:51):
mean went into the community,asked them what it would take to
engage with him and they toldhim he had developed what he
called the gift-centeredapproach, and it was at the
heart of the way he led, whichhe called Salbona leadership.
Okay, now, what was cool aboutthis?
He invited me to mentoringsession because I wanted to see
(11:14):
it in action, and when I went tothis mentoring session, we had
people of all differentgenerations, genders, ethnic
backgrounds, but the deepconnection that they had and the
way they engage each other thatbrought out the best in who
they were.
That's when I said to him look,I need you to mentor me.
(11:35):
I need to take this into thecorporate world, because I not
just saw a way of my leadersbeing able to better engage
their young people, but I saw away of creating cultures of
belonging.
Yes, and so he mentored me.
And the difference for me wasis that when I now went into
companies, uh, change waslong-term and sustainable.
(11:59):
And today salbon is.
And today Salbona is in over 30countries Wow.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
Yeah, congratulations .
Speaker 4 (12:11):
And how—I'm not sure how to ask this question when
you were saying that, is it apeer framework that's helping,
or is it a mentor to the youngergeneration?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Well, it's sort of reciprocal, because Salbona in
Zulu means I see you, and it'sabout seeing the whole person.
And when I've been, you know,doing keynote speaks and
conferences and millennialswould come up to me.
(12:43):
They would tell me they had lotsof needs, but the three needs
that kept echoing was to fillher, to use their gifts and to
have meaning and purpose intheir lives.
But, oddly enough, when I askedthe entire audience, which
consisted of many generations,how many of you want this too,
every hand went up because itwasn't a generational need, it
(13:06):
was a human need.
And so Salbona is so timelessand so powerful in the way that
it cuts through generalities,because it deals with the heart
of who we are as human beingsand what we all want.
You know, all of us want to beseen and accepted for who we are
(13:27):
good and bad and in Salbono wehave found that when you see and
accept people for who they are,they reciprocate.
They see and accept us for whowe are, and this different
conversation unfolds.
It's not one where we'relecturing to each other with our
right-wrong judgments, but onewhere we're listening and
(13:47):
learning from each other withopenness and curiosity.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
So fulfilling when you have someone who's asking
you for help.
Are they asking you for help tosee themselves more clearly or
to see the people they'reworking with more clearly?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Well, what people ask and what they think they need
is not always what they needRight, especially after you do
the assessment.
So, but usually people arefocused on others, that they're
doing it wrong.
Yeah, yeah.
Maybe I can share you a story ofone of my clients that will
(14:33):
explain kind of how Sal Bonoworks.
And this is just one.
I mean there's so manydifferent.
There's so much depth to it.
We enter through gifts, butthere's so much more depth.
It we enter through gifts, butthere's so much more depth into
how we do things, and that'smaybe we can talk about later
the somatic work that I do aswell.
(14:53):
But I'm thinking of this clientI'll call her Kathy and Kathy
was a director of tech supportof an IT firm.
They engaged my services to workwith the executives.
She was not one of them.
She came to me one day and shewas very upset, she was very
frustrated.
She said, susan, I don't knowwhat to do.
I'm going to have to fire myguy, jack, by Friday because
(15:20):
he's not making his monthlyquotas of new customers serve.
Now, jack is a millennial.
And she said I've triedeverything.
Now you have to understand.
She was trying to get Jack toconform to the way she was
brought up, which is command andcontrol, the carrot and the
stick.
And so she was giving himincentives, she was giving him
(15:41):
reprimands, and nothing wasworking.
She was giving him reprimandsand nothing was working.
And so, as we had conversationand I started to talk about
gifts and stuff, I asked her sowhat do you think Jack's gifts
(16:01):
are?
And I remember her looking atme going, uh, I don't even know
their own gifts, because it'swhat we do naturally, what we
were born to bring into thisworld, and we take them for
granted, right, our gifts.
And so I reframed the question.
I said why did you hire him?
And her eyes lit up and said ohmy gosh, because he's not like
any other tech guy.
He doesn't talk down to ourcustomers in that techie
(16:22):
language.
He gains rapport easily.
They ask for him by name.
He is so generous with his time.
He's great at solving the mostdifficult challenges and people
come to him all the time to askand he tells them how to do it.
He's great at coaching.
I said, ah, she said, but Idon't know what this is going to
(16:43):
help because I have to fire himby Friday, I said.
I said OK, wait, wait, wait.
So let's just step back, I said, and see a bigger picture of
this.
And I asked her.
I said what is Jack's retentionrate of his existing client
base compared to the other reps?
And she looked at me.
(17:05):
I don't know but why.
I said because he may be moreprofitable.
He may be serving less new ones, but retaining more of his
existing base.
And she said wow.
I said can you find out?
She said absolutely so.
I said but you're going to haveto move on this.
So she called me late the nextday and she said you'll never
(17:27):
believe it.
He has the highest retentionrate of all the reps and he is
more profitable.
And I went that is so great.
Now go to your boss, buy usmore time and let's brainstorm.
So she bought us more time andwe start brainstorming.
The first question I ask whenpeople are talking about
(17:47):
people's bad behavior is what isthe gift that is trying to come
out in his bad behavior?
Yes, and she sat and she sat.
She goes, wow, she goes well.
He's so generous with his timethat people take advantage of
him Right.
He can solve any complexproblem that there is.
(18:08):
So he's a resource of knowledge, he's good with coaching, he's
smart, he's intelligent, he'sdetailed.
She just, you know, once shegot on a roll, she got on a roll
Right.
And the next question was howcan we redirect his gifts to
better serve you, jack, and theorganization.
(18:30):
And so she thought about it andshe came up with a great idea.
She goes what if we had himcreate a training manual, give
away all of his secrets sopeople won't have to
continuously come to him?
I said great.
I said and how about if you usethat training manual to train
the entire department, becausehe's really good at training and
(18:52):
coaching?
And she said, oh my gosh.
I said, but you have to go toJack and see if you can get him
on board.
So she did.
And I said it would be good foryou to start by acknowledging
his gifts.
So she did, and he wasflattered.
He said wow, yeah, I feel great, right, so we did many other
(19:15):
things, but let me just sharewith you the results that what
we get?
The company got a trainingmanual.
Jack trained the entiredepartment.
Productivity and retention wentup across the board.
This is the funniest part InJack breaking down what he did.
So naturally well, he startedto see areas where he could be
(19:35):
more effective and efficient.
And now he was making hismonthly quotas of new customers,
sir.
They had three straightconsecutive years of the highest
customer retention and Kathywas promoted from a director to
general managers.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
Wow, so rewarding.
How did you celebrate?
How did you celebrate, or whatdid gratitude look like for you?
Because it seems like such alife change that you were a part
of going back to this.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
You know, being on this earth to make a difference
this, you know, being on thisearth to make a difference.
Yeah, you know, I think whattouches me most is seeing the
change in Kathy andunderstanding that part of the
journey that I didn't share,that we did, was to be able to
understand herself.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
And how you know, it was really interesting.
She had certain gifts that Jackdidn't have.
We all, you know, a lot oftimes our gifts are someone
else's blind spots and viceversa and for her to start to
understand that there was adifferent way of doing this,
(20:47):
that you didn't have to demandit because demanding doesn't
work, especially with thisyounger generation and it
allowed her to see a differentway that was more long-term and
sustainable, and I mean it justchanged the whole team to be
able to see how they cametogether, how they got behind it
(21:11):
, because that was the way thatthey increased that retention.
I mean it was so beautiful.
I mean just really veryheartwarming.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Is that process that you just described with that
wonderful example?
Is that how most of yourleaders experience a
transformative work is bystarting with the ones that they
think are the problem, but thenit turns back on them?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Well, let's see.
Okay, I'll share.
I've got so many stories in myhead because I've had so many.
I'll share with you anotherstory, and this may get into the
semantic work that I do, whichwill be okay.
I had a CEO.
He called me, his head ofproduction for an event planning
(21:59):
company.
I'll call her Beth.
Beth was on the verge ofburnout and, if you can imagine,
she's the head of productionfor an event planning company,
so you can only guess that hercore gift was planning.
There wasn't anything that Bethdidn't plan.
Okay, and planning is also away to control things as well
(22:22):
too.
Okay.
So when I came in, she was onthe verge of burnout.
He knew she had, she had suchtalent, she's very creative in
her approaches and everythingelse.
There was also a lot ofcomplaints from her people, her
millennials, saying that she,you know, controlled them too
much and she didn't give themthe opportunity to use their
(22:43):
gifts and things like that.
So what happened is is that Ientered through Sal Bono her
gifts, and she saw her gift ofplanning.
But she also saw that sheoverused her gift until it
became her weakness.
And to every gift, there'sanother side to the gift, what
we're blind to a need to learn.
(23:04):
And I asked Beth, what do youthink that other side?
And of course, she said notplanning.
I said no, no, no, beth.
I said what do you have a hardtime do If you plan what's?
And she said uh, you mean goingwith the flow, being flexible.
I said yeah, yeah,no-transcript, yeah, she said I
(24:17):
would.
She said but, susan, there areso many really wonderful
memories I have with certainthings to give away.
I said that's okay.
I said this is not going to beabout getting rid of stuff.
This is about the feeling thatyou're going to notice in your
body when you let go ofsomething that's very dear to
you, and we're going to create aritual around it.
(24:38):
I also found out she was awonderful photographer.
So the ritual we created waswhen she there were things she
could just throw away, but otherthings.
When she held them.
She would hold them and shewould remember the memory of
what it brought to her and thenfeel the release of letting it
go as she took a photo of it,and later she created a
(25:02):
photography book of all herbeautiful stuff that she gave
away, and she had three piles ofwho she was going to donate it
to, so she knew it was going togo to someone else, right.
So she started to get used tothat feeling in her body of
letting go and it was the dooropener for us to then.
(25:23):
Her biggest breakthrough camewhen she one day told me she
always wanted to do trapezing.
I said what, what, what?
Trapeze?
Yeah, hindsight, yeah.
So she said when she was youngand in New York she saw a
trapeze app and she said when Iwas young, I always wanted to do
this.
So I said to her are you opento doing it now?
(25:46):
Would you be open to it?
She said no, I would.
So I found the New York Schoolof Trapeze on the Santa Monica
Pier.
I went to talk to the guy there.
I said hey look.
I said can I ask you?
This is what I need done, andhe laughed.
He said I have many execs thatdo similar things with us.
And I said, great.
(26:07):
So Beth started to repeatlessons and I got to tell you
this is the hugest breakthrough,because she replaced the
feeling of fear of letting gowith a feeling of freedom.
And now, all of a sudden shestarted to let go of whole
projects.
She started to get her balanceback.
(26:28):
She started to spend more timewith her husband.
People loved it because theycould start to contribute.
So that's sort of like asomatic practice, but you know
it's one of my bigger somaticpractices.
I have smaller, so I don't wantyou guys to get too scared.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
Did you get up on the trapeze?
Did you join her ever Did?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
you ever join her on the trapeze?
Did I ever join?
Speaker 1 (26:53):
her ever.
You know I never did, but itwould be something.
This is what I did.
To get comfortable withuncertainty, I went skydiving.
Okay, that'll do.
(27:26):
You hope it goes.
That being in uncertainty isnot what we think.
We have this big monster.
We create around uncertaintythat we are so fearful of it.
But when I jumped out of thatplane and we were doing tandem,
because they don't let you jumpout by yourself I thought I was
just going to drop and I didn'tdrop.
The wind underneath me liftedme and I felt like I was flying
(27:50):
like Superman.
It was so amazingly cool andthat feeling is like with me so
that when I get that reallyscared feeling of doing
something, I remember I bringthat back.
That's an anchor for me and itallows me to get centered and
grounded and make betterdecisions.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
So, susan, I got a question about the personal
rituals that you create.
Is this something, are therituals something that you are
creating for all the people thatyou're working with, and are
they all custom?
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Good question.
So what happens is, I think,what makes me different than a
lot of maybe other executivecoaches.
I don't have a program that Iput people through the first
month.
I find out who they are and Ido it in a very different way.
So most people do 360s.
I have found in my lifetimethat when I did 360s the exec
(28:51):
would get back to 360 and sayget very defensive and say I
know who said this.
Judy said this she doesn't knowme.
Oh, billy, nah, yeah, and theywouldn't, I would fight.
You know, it was like a tug ofwar between what they would
believe and what they wouldn't.
So, in my assessment, I havethem choose five people, even
(29:15):
what they wouldn't.
So, in my assessment, I havethem choose five people, people
that love them, adore them, willbe honest with them and that
they trust.
It could be their spouse, itcould be their children, it
could be their best friend fromcollege.
It doesn't have to be anybodyin the organization they get,
and these five people tell themwhat their gifts are and define
it, what their blind spots are,define it in terms of their
experience with this person.
(29:35):
And what happens is when theyget it back and they read it
I've had men cry, I've had youknow.
I mean, they just are sotouched and you get such depth
in this, such depth, so muchdepth, and then I give them.
So there's a couple of otherpre-coaching assignments, once
(29:57):
called my path to a life ofpurpose, and all these questions
allow me to filter the themesof who this person is on a deep
level.
And then I, we have this, wehave conversation, I have very
deep conversation.
I ask them all about theiranswers, because how they answer
sure tells me a lot about whothey are, just in what they
(30:21):
write and how they write it.
And after I ask all thesequestions, we do an intake,
because I ask them to focus onthree behavioral areas that
align with their external goalsthat they want to work on, and I
give them examples ofbehavioral areas, yep, so they
may talk about working on.
(30:42):
I want to work on my patients,I want to work on letting go of
control or whatever, and I thencome up with a one sheet which
has this is our purpose, wherewe're headed, these are the
behavioral outcomes to get there.
And by then they're really intune, because in the three, four
(31:07):
, five, five hours and I don'tdo a straight I'm slowly
coaching them to understand whothey are.
And so they get this one sheet.
If they approve it, it becomesthe outline for me to then
create a four stage program ofpractices, exercises,
self-observations that arecustomized to who they are.
(31:29):
And it's powerful because uh,also, I just have to say that
it's not extra stuff I find outwhat they're doing in their life
right and then I create apractice from there right
Speaker 5 (31:44):
well, and I hear it as the heart of what you were
saying.
I see you that that even in thecoaching and in the help and
moving them from one place toanother, it starts first with
them being seen.
A lot of times we also havevery non-traditional approaches
(32:04):
and a lot of times our clientswill say like I feel seen, I
feel heard, it's almost like youfeel us, and I think it's easy
to put people through a programand it's a lot more difficult
but also very artistic andrewarding to really meet people
where they're at and start touncover, like you were
(32:26):
mentioning, uncover their giftsand kind of put them on a path
of growing in the way that ismost conducive to them.
It's just beautiful.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
And part of the challenge that we often find is
that, as much as people want toshare with us where they think
they're at, it's a long journeyfor them to get from where their
head is at to where they areactually, and that process of us
sitting and listening to peopletalk like that may take a long
time before we realize, orbefore the person realizes,
(32:57):
where they are, not justprofessionally, but where
they're at personally, wherethey're at emotionally, how it
is that they're truly perceivingthe world around them, because
I think that there are, um, somany people that are reflecting
noise and not their identity toyou.
So my question for you is do youfeel like, when you're talking
(33:20):
to your people that you'recoaching, are you feeling them
kind of settling in to this ideathat they are being seen, where
they become more comfortablesharing with you, who they are
more comfortable with theirchallenges?
Do you find that that takestime?
Or are there people that aresometimes just they're just so
done that they're willing to beseen quite clearly?
(33:43):
Quite quickly, please see menow.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I think that's just kind of the reason why I like
the way that I do thisassessment of the reason why I
like the way that I do thisassessment, because, and then,
picking five people who theytrust and having them tell them
what their gifts are and definethem and what their blind spots
in terms of their experience.
And then when I go over, so whatdid Judy mean when she said
(34:08):
this?
What do you think she meant?
And all of sudden the stuffthat they would hide from me
comes out because of the peoplethat they've known their
lifetime, that they trust, andit just helps me to build trust
very quickly with them, becausethe people that they trust are
(34:32):
saying what I may be sensing,but it would be hard for me to
just go there without havingsomeone else say it.
And so that's what I find verypowerful in what I do, and it's
just I can tell you.
I create this amazingly safespace for them because in just
(34:53):
asking them to explain what youdo you think this person means,
and then I give them say youknow um, a reference to do you
think it might be because ofthis.
Or I see you said that you areum, that you haven't.
I'm thinking of a client I'mworking with right now.
(35:13):
You're saying that you love totake risk, but then I see, and
you don't like to control things, you don't like to let people
do what they do.
But on the other side I seethis other person saying that
one of the things that happensfor you with your people is is
that you know so much that yougive them the answer before they
(35:36):
have a chance to give theiridea, and that's a method of
controlling, and so I may bringpieces together and all of a
sudden they go.
Oh wow.
Okay.
You know what, and so I'mbuilding this trust that I could
not have as quickly as I have,because these people are saying
(35:56):
it for me.
Speaker 5 (35:57):
Mm, hmm in your life's practice.
Do you feel like even your loveof film helped and directing
has helped the ways that youallow people to live into their
(36:19):
story or uncover their story?
Are there any connections there, or is that just me wondering?
Speaker 1 (36:26):
No, I mean there's definitely connection there,
because I think entertainment,the arts, it helps me to be very
creative and innovative in theway that I see the world and I
can.
I think one of the things thatit helped me develop is the
sixth sense.
I can sense things about peopleand help them connect the dots
as to why they're doing whatthey're doing, and I don't even
(36:49):
know.
It's a feeling, it's a sense inmy body.
I was working with one client.
He had become very successfulbecause he called me, because he
had been promoted to nowdirector of operations of all
these restaurants, and thereason was is the single
restaurant that he was thegeneral manager had three
(37:09):
consecutive years of recordbreaking profits, had three
consecutive years ofrecord-breaking profits.
When I found out why he wassuccessful at this restaurant
was because he was there 24-7and like watching everything, he
said, yeah, I don't think thisis duplicatable.
I said, no, I don't think it'seither.
But what was funny is trust isnot black and white, because he
(37:32):
did trust his people up to acertain point.
We talked about it and hispeople told me they loved him,
they felt he trusted them fully.
But there was something that Ikept feeling and all the excuses
he gave to me of why it washard to fully let go, that had
to deal with his own self-trustof himself.
(37:54):
And something that was deeper,and all I did was I started to
say to him you know what I feel?
Something deeper.
And then I would let it go.
And one day, in the first monthwhen we were working together,
he said I don't think I evertold you that I was molested by
a baby sitter when.
(38:14):
I was a young boy and I justwent wow.
I said have you been gettingtherapy for that?
And he said yeah, I have.
He said I haven't had in thelast three years I've been so
busy.
I said okay, and I said do youthink that might have to do with
you not being able to trustyourself so you can fully trust
(38:35):
others?
And he just stopped and Iremember the blank stare and he
looked at me and said I thinkyou got it.
So I helped him get a therapist, get reconnected in therapist,
and the two of us workedtogether and I mean he's just
come out of it so beautifully.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
But connecting those dots I think, being in an
innovative, very creativeindustry like film and stuff,
you're constantly connectingthings that don't look connected
are you finding any themes um,with the people that you're
working with that have beenbecoming themes that have become
(39:16):
more dominant in the last fouror five years?
Is there anything that you'reseeing that's maybe changing in
people's personalities, theirthresholds for uncertainty?
Are you finding people justmore willing to ask for help?
Is there anything that you'reseeing like as a professional,
like this is a trend line I'mdefinitely seeing over and over
again.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, well, currently , you know, millennials are at
the high end 44 and they'redefinitely coming to me.
Millennials absolutely knowthat they need help.
Generations prior, gen X andboomers especially boomers know
that they're going to retire.
(39:57):
So if they come to me for help,it's because the board of
directors told them that theyhave five more years, and so
it's like holding their breathfor five years and I let them
know look, if you're going tohold your breath for five years,
I'm not the right coach for you.
But what happens, I'm finding,is that, first of all, young
people they do want guidance andhelp.
(40:20):
The hardest part about themgetting guidance and help is
that most companies today stilldon't put aside a budget for
growth and development.
Yeah, that's right.
And so it's very hard for themto pay for, you know, an
executive coach, because goodexecutive coaches, like we all
are, we're expensive, yes, yes.
(40:42):
So what I've been doing out ofthe goodness of my heart is is
that I've actually coached themhow to negotiate with their
company to get them to pay forthe coaching.
And I say to my millennials outthere, all you millennials out
there, that when you are goinginto any kind of leadership role
(41:06):
, you have to negotiate in youragreement a budget for coaching,
and if a company's not willingto do that, you're probably
going into the wrong company.
If the company's open to it,then you're going to a great
company, because the mostsuccessful companies require
their senior managers to havecoaches.
(41:27):
That's right.
Like the Nikes of the world,goldman Sachs, all these.
That's right.
Like the Nikes of the world,goldman Sachs, all these.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
So yeah, yeah, that's definitely a trend that we are
experiencing, the trend beingorganizations willing to make
investments in their leaders andthe strata or the layer of
leadership.
I don't know if we're seeing atrend line there, it's just the
investment in, and so that's oneof the things that we're
noticing is that there arepeople out there that not are
(41:55):
not only asking for help, butthere's an executive layer of
leadership that's realizing wehave to invest because of
whatever the churn is, you knowthat's along their their journey
.
I think that part of you knowwhat you're bringing to the
conversation, to theconversation is focusing on what
people bring, and we also findthat people want to be seen,
(42:18):
heard and understood, and thatreally is rooted in what they're
bringing.
Can you speak to the like, oncepeople are noticed for their
gifts and their contribution,how that may shape or change the
way that they see themselves?
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, you know, I mean one of the, I think,
strongest practices and it'svery simple that I give to my
clients is what we callgift-centered praise, and it's
different than regular praise.
It's about praising the actionand then the gift behind the
(42:58):
action and then the impact thatit has on them the person doing
it, the organization.
The idea is is that when, ifyou only praise the action
(43:30):
no-transcript but saying, oh mygosh, jack, you have your gift
of organization.
I see how you just are verymuch.
You know you can find things,you put things where they should
be, whatever, and you praisethat, and the impact that it has
on me is is that I never haveto worry about you borrowing
(43:52):
anything, I never have to worryabout trying to look for
something or whatever.
That person is going to findother ways to use his gift in
the organization rather thanjust do the same action.
And so they light up when youtalk about the gift, go, oh my
(44:13):
gosh, I do have that.
I mean, even if they don't sayyou can see their eyes light up
and go, whoa, okay.
And I've had my executives saylike things, like jack, how can
you take this gift oforganization and utilize it in
the project that we're doing tobring it all together?
Yeah.
And it's like now you're askingme to do something that has that
(44:36):
I can use my gift to get theresults, and you're not telling
me the exact way to do it.
You're saying here's the resultI want.
Do it in your way, using yourgifts.
That's when they get veryexcited and passionate and very
focused on yeah, okay, this iscool, right.
Speaker 5 (44:53):
Yeah, because I hear too that it builds that
relational connection so right.
So it's not just it'spurposeful praise, it's specific
, it's calling out the gifts andI think it's when you watch,
when we watch team members likestart to connect, like you
actually see me doing this, orit's valuable you can tell that
(45:16):
there is a kind of relationalconnection that helps build into
the culture.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Did you mention earlier that you do work with
teams around these concepts?
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
I do.
I work with teams, I doretreats, I do group coaching,
various other things too.
Yeah, I don't do.
You know what I do do trainingbut I don't do training Meaning.
I have found that training justgives people insight.
They get all very excited andthen they go back and life comes
along and then they forget it.
(45:47):
That's right.
So the group coaching modelthat I have is it's several
group coaching sessions and it'sindividual coaching sessions in
between that.
So what we're doing is we'rebuilding a foundation, we're
building a new habit that leadsto a new competency.
That's right and that's really,really important.
Speaker 5 (46:10):
Susan, is there anything that you would want us
to ask you in particular, or totee you up to say something that
you really want to share intothe world?
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah, you know what there is.
And this comes up because, well, let me just say this we are
all going through a veryinteresting and challenging
times right now.
Many companies are downsizing,they're laying off employees.
On the other side, employeesare leaving companies not, the
(46:43):
culture is changing in a waythat they are not aligned with
it.
That's correct, and whathappens when things get
challenging?
The first thing that companiescut is the budget for growth and
(47:06):
development of their people oftheir people because they do not
realize and they do not see thedirect connection between
developing and growing yourpeople into the best leaders
possible and increaseproductivity, revenues and
profitability.
And, however, the mostsuccessful companies do see that
connection, and this isactually backed up by a recent
(47:31):
survey by the Galluporganization their 2025 State of
the Global Workplace survey,where they point to the fact
that the companies that haveseen the least amount of
decrease in engagement are theones that put money into
training and developing themanagers.
That put money into trainingand developing the managers
(47:53):
Because if the managers areengaged, then their people are
engaged.
And today we're in a crisismode Globally.
What do they say?
79% of employees are disengagedworldwide, and that's because
73% of managers are disengaged,and when we think about what's
(48:16):
costing is they said it'scosting our global economy $438
billion in lost productivity.
That's right.
And that doesn't wake people upand going whoa.
And they say where the managersgo, the people follow.
So many managers are not beingtrained, not being coached, not
(48:38):
being given the tools they needand they want it, you know,
especially with AI andautomation happening.
That's right, and the biggestcomplaint is that they feel that
their bosses are ignoring itrather than stepping into it.
Speaker 4 (48:55):
Yeah, that last part of being ignored.
I think that you know thesocietal situation that you're
mentioning.
I feel that there are peoplethat do feel that sense of
lostness and they're desiringbeing found anywhere, and when
you can create that oh, I seeyou, I've found you in the
(49:18):
workplace I think that that canbe a real catalytic place for
transformation to occur, becausethere's usually strong
relationships there or historyof relationship.
There may be resources forinvestment, like you're saying,
and you spend so much time withyour colleagues.
I think it's a great placewhere people can be seen, and I
(49:39):
feel that wherever we can, likeyou said earlier, wherever we
can create safe places forpeople to feel that they are
seen and they have a sense ofbelonging, that the consequence
of that is increasedproductivity, higher levels of
engagement and even an elevatedsense of vision, not necessarily
a corporate or organizationalvision, but an elevated vision
(50:02):
of oneself.
Like I, can be different.
I think that part of themismanagement of gifts is that
we don't see the gifts in agenerative state ourselves,
because the environment itselfis suffocating or taking the
oxygen out of the place where wecan't thrive in that
gift-centered way that you'respeaking, to focus on getting
(50:34):
people's attention to the goodand right side of who they are,
how to name it in others, and tohow you ask people to
demonstrate the courage totranscend generational
boundaries and stereotypes tosee others as humans.
First, you know generationaltitles.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
second, yeah, first, you know, generational title
second.
Yeah, and one thing I want tosay too the reason like the
practice of gifts under praiseis so powerful is because it
puts a leader into observationmode.
Yeah.
And it gets them to start toobserve the actions of their
people.
And out of their actions, whatis that gift?
(51:11):
And we are so in a societywhere we're go, go, go that when
you go, go, go you cannotconnect with your people.
But if you're forced to observethem and you're forced to be
able to do gifts and praise, youhave to see them, you have to
watch them, you have to observethem, and it slows you down.
(51:32):
And this is why I love thegift-centered praise, rather
than doing an assessment whereyou're told they're gifts and
then you're looking for the gift.
It's different than when you'relooking at who they are and
then you discover it.
And you go, oh wow.
(51:53):
No, yeah so.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
Susan, this has been so great.
Thank you so much for takingthe time.
We're going to have links inour show notes to all of your
resources.
But I'm wondering, just to kindof close things out here, if
you could maybe share just your,your quickest, shortest sort of
nugget of someone who's beenlistening to this maybe it's a
manager who is interested inthis Sawbona culture, Like
(52:20):
what's the kind of lowesthanging fruit, Because we have
to start somewhere that youcould share.
That would be, you know, justtaking one step onto that
journey of seeing the uniquenessin their people.
Like what would just be kind ofthat one little takeaway.
Maybe someone could turn offthe recording and go walk out
into their hallway and say, likewe're going to just try this
today and practice.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
Okay.
So I'm thinking about apractice that's a really
powerful practice, simple, it'scalled walk in beauty.
All my clients love walk inbeauty.
Because what it is?
It's a meditative walk wherewhen you're walking, you walk
slower than you normally walk.
If you have a thought, you say,thinking, you let it go and
then you connect with nature andyou literally stop in front of
(53:05):
things that draw you in, ofbeauty, and you receive the
beauty of a tree.
And in being able just to openyour heart and just receive
beauty I mean because weactually naturally do it when we
hike and stuff people slow down, they go.
Oh, my God, the sunset, thelake, really being able to
receive that beauty allows usthen to be able to receive the
(53:29):
beauty in our people and to beable to see their gifts.
So walking in nature ispowerful, that's great.
Slow in nature, that's so good.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
That's good, thank you, I mean that's perfect.
Oh.
I love that, that's somethingthat we can go do right now.
Well, susan, thank you so much.
We really appreciate you takingthe time.
Any final thoughts?
Brian Linda final comments.
Speaker 4 (53:52):
No, that was.
Speaker 5 (53:53):
I'm still on my own little beauty walk we would like
we would officially like to bein your tribe.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
Yes absolutely, absolutely.
Thank you, susan.
We really appreciate it.
We will hopefully talk to youagain soon.
Yeah, thank you so much.
(54:24):
It was an honor to be here withall of you.
There is a link in our shownotes if you want to learn more
about Susan and her work, butthank you to everyone for
listening to the LeadershipVision podcast, our show helping
you build positive team culture.
To learn more about us, you canclick the link in the show
notes as I said, or visit us onthe web at
(54:45):
leadershipvisionconsultingcom.
We would appreciate it if youwould follow us wherever you get
your podcasts.
Follow us on social, sign upfor our free email newsletter.
But, most importantly, passthis along to someone who you
think could benefit from ourmessage.
My name is Nathan Freeberg and,on behalf of our entire team,
thanks for listening.
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