April 28, 2025 • 20 mins
In this episode, Nathan Freeburg sits down with Linda Schubring to talk about her new book Unfolded: Lessons in Transformation from an Origami Crane. They explore the philosophy and strategy behind the story, the metaphor of origami, and how deep listening and reflection help shape personal and team transformation.
What You’ll Learn:
- Why transformation begins with listening
- How mountain folds and valley folds reflect life’s high and low points
- The five stages of transformation: Dream, Play, Try, Fly, and Home
- How Unfolded applies to individuals and teams in transition
- The unexpected beauty of looking back on hard seasons with new eyes
Quotes from the Episode:
“We are not just listening to what people say—we're listening to what matters to them.”
“The creases in our story are what give us our uniqueness.”
“Play is just practice in disguise.”
Resources Mentioned:
- Pre-order Unfolded: Lessons in Transformation from an Origami Crane
- Learn more about Linda and Brian Schubring at Leadership Vision Consulting
-
Read the full blog post here!
CONTACT US
- email: connect@leadershipvisionconsulting.com
- Leadership Vision Online
ABOUT
The Leadership Vision Podcast is a weekly show sharing our expertise in discovering, practicing, and implementing a Strengths-based approach to people, teams, and culture. Contact us to talk to us about helping your team understand the power of Strengths.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Thank you.
Visit us on the web atleadershipvisionconsultingcom.
Today in the podcast, I amjoined by Dr Linda Schubring for
a conversation abouttransformation, the power of
story and how listening shapeswho we become.
We're going to be diving intosome of the heart behind
Unfolded Lessons inTransformation from an Origami
Crane, which is a new bookcoming out June 4th that Linda
(00:42):
co-authored with Brian.
That blends metaphor andmeaning and strategy to help all
of us reflect, grow and dreamforward.
Let's get into it, hi, linda.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Hey, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I'm great.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
It's just the two of us.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
It is just the two of us.
It's easier to edit when it'sjust two people in conversation.
That's not to say anythingagainst Brian, but you and I
have not done a solo podcast fora while, so I'm excited to talk
to you today.
I think we're going to talkabout transformation.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
You and Brian have your new book coming out here in
a couple of months.
I guess, at the point of whatwe're recording, this It'll be a
month, yeah, of months.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I guess at the point of what we're recording this.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Something I've heard you say a bunch was how a lot of
what unfolded in the bookunfolded Lessons in
Transformation from an origamicrane, from listening, from the
stories that you heard fromclients.
The characters in the book arenot any one client, but like a
whole bunch of clients together.
(01:45):
Can you just talk a little bitor describe what that means and
how listening the idea oflistening kind of shaped some of
what this book is about.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, I think that's how we approach people.
I think at Leadership Visionover the years.
When we're sitting with people,we are not just listening to
the words that they are saying,we're listening to what's
important to them.
We're listening to the tenor oftheir voice.
We're listening to wherethey're coming from, we're
listening to things that areimportant to them, and when
(02:20):
Brian and I started writing thebook together, there was a
realization that we could dosomething with all this data
that we had.
The stories that we gathered,the stories that we heard could
be integrated as kind of metathemes into our book.
I think it's the craft oflistening that we've been doing
for so many years and, as youknow about Brian and me, you
(02:43):
know we listen and then we tryto make meaning and then we want
to do something with it.
We want to use the lessonswe're learning to help other
people, the insights that we'regathering to invite people into
a deeper story, and so I thinkabout the people that I've heard
about.
I think about positive ornegative.
(03:04):
Usually someone's a shapingvoice for the good or bad, as
well as spheres of influence,many, many different things.
The common thread, nathan, isthat what makes us human is that
we are growing and changingpeople, and obviously there's
times in our lives when we getstuck.
(03:26):
Yet, um, there's something thathappens in places of growth and
that's where we name where inour life, and that's why the,
the origami animals, are madeout of maps.
Usually, growth happens in somespecific place, and so all that
(03:48):
came together in the creationof our story.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I'm curious.
In some ways we're doing apractice podcast here, for when
you go on the podcast circuitpromoting this.
I want to talk about origami,when we were texting about this
yesterday.
It's the book's not aboutorigami, it's about
transformation.
So can you tell me why did youchoose origami to tell the story
of transformation?
(04:12):
Why maybe specifically anorigami crane, and how did that
evolve or come out of this wholeidea of listening and hearing
from other people's stories?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
listening and hearing from other people's stories.
The heart of the idea was frombrian right, so this thought
that will be.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
That will be his, his to answer that later.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Sure, we'll hit hit more of that later.
But but for me, when brian said, okay, we, this is going to be
origami and this is going to bea crane, and this is why and the
story began to unfold in hismind and then he would pass it
to me, I really started to lookat elements of origami that were
(04:56):
really beautiful and that isthe simplicity and that is the
elegance and that is componentsof every origami.
Animal usually starts with amountain fold and it also then
is there's a valley fold.
And as I was reading a littlebit up on origami and trying to
(05:19):
think about how this metaphor,how we could kind of pull a
thread through the metaphor, Ithought there are so many
mountaintop experiences in ourlife and those usually are
points of pivot and points ofchange, the things that we
celebrate, whether it's a newhome or a new partner, a new job
, a new promotion, a new place,and all those mountaintop
(05:41):
experiences.
I think as humans we want to orwe choose to celebrate.
So we celebrate the graduations, we celebrate the retirements,
we celebrate the weddings, themarkers in our story where it is
a point of transformation fromone thing to the next.
And when I started to thinkabout the valley folds.
(06:02):
I couldn't help but think abouthow disease and death and a
diagnosis and suffering and arole being eliminated, or
needing to ask for forgiveness,or realizing that we're not the
same people that we were, thatthose, those parts of grief are
(06:24):
about the, the valleyexperiences which we can track
to a valley fold in in origami,and so I wouldn't say that we
are the foremost experts onorigami, but I would say that we
tried to use components of themetaphor to really pull through
and begin to speak about change,adaptation, transformation in
(06:49):
some different ways.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
You know it's interesting.
So part of the book isUnfolding.
It's in the title.
Is it fair to say that part ofthat process is realizing that a
valley fold might actually be amountain fold or vice versa?
Because the reason I asked thatis because it was my son's
birthday yesterday and I can'tbelieve it, I can't believe he's
(07:11):
12 wild, but something thatI've done since he was one and I
do with my other kids as wellas I'll take all the videos I
shot on my phone and edit itinto a little three to four
minute highlight video, and lastnight we watched all 12 of his
Come on.
And it was very emotional.
I can't imagine what's going tobe like in.
I'm going to do it till he's 18.
(07:32):
But where I'm going with thisis that the one of the COVID
year, so 2020, so he would havebeen.
What is that?
Seven into eight, his eighthyear.
I watched that.
With such a mountain experience,that was an amazing year.
I cannot believe how simplethings were, but at that time I
(07:53):
remember it being so difficultand being like dear God, I'm not
going to get through this.
So I don't know where myquestion is in this, other than
to say can you sort of talk usthrough that process of humans
realizing when you unfold orlook at your map, look at your
life experiences and be like,actually that was deeply
(08:17):
changing and transformative.
And without this little fourminute video, like I don't know
why it hit me so hard last night, but I was like good grief that
I just remember that being sodifficult, but it was like so
powerful, so I don't know.
Just I guess reflect on that ortalk about that, or what does
that have to do with anythinghere?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
It has a lot to do with things, because that is a
point of transition, like Ithink that even your son's story
maps a bit to our allegory, inthat you know he is pursuing
dreams through figuring out whathe likes and that he's a little
bit of a ham in front of thecamera and he can command an
(08:57):
audience and, um, he looks afterhis siblings.
So there there's, there's some.
There's some beauty in that, Ithink, when you think back to
situations where, wow, that wasreally hard in the midst of it,
but then, kind of this was thejoy as a result.
Or I remember for me goingthrough and I'll come back to
(09:20):
you, but for me going throughcancer, I remember I would tell
our daughter I would say, okay,remember, what's the best part
of cancer?
She's like you and me get tospend more time together.
Right and I cherish that.
So, although I was very sickfor many, many of those days,
the days, that.
(09:40):
I felt good.
She and I had so much fun.
She had so much fun in her, herformative years and my points
of suffering.
So of course I can waxnostalgic and I can look back
and think like, okay, yeah, Iwas getting killed, like that
was chemo was trying to kill me,covid was trying to kill all
(10:00):
families, it felt like, and soof course, looking back at some
of those times and thenwondering, wow, like we, there
was goodness that came from it.
I don't think it detracts fromthe fact that at a at the time
it was a defining moment.
It felt negative in the time.
I think when you look back itcould have been very pivotal in
(10:20):
how close your family is.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah Well, you're talking about being meaning
makers and you're talking aboutmaking meaning out of something.
How much does the book dealwith or talk about that process?
Because a lot of people, Ithink, just kind of zip through
their life without taking amoment to look back and draw
some connections, to make somemeaning out of things that
(10:46):
otherwise just flies by.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, I think there is a practice of meaning making.
We know that as humans, we aremeaning making machines.
However, sometimes the fastpace of our lives and the
busyness of our lives just putus into survival mode.
And even right now in our world, with everything changing so
fast and a lot of uncertaintyand a bit of chaos, it is okay.
(11:11):
Where do I have a chance tobreathe and how do I look around
at what's happening now so Ican take some more purposeful
action forward?
So I wouldn't say that we, youknow an allegory will invite the
reader to think about yourselfor think about what might of
(11:33):
story, and the gift of storyallows us to step into a story
wherever we start to resonate.
So, I think there will be peoplethat will read the story and
when they look at one part oftheir life, they will say, oh
yeah, those are the voices in myhead.
Or they might say those are thecharacters in my team.
(11:56):
Or yeah, that is a similardream that I had and how I
wanted to navigate my life or myworld.
So, yeah, I'm curious about howpeople will take this and run
with it.
I think that there will bemeaning to be made in so many
different ways.
Some of the things that we'veintended to happen have come out
(12:20):
in like people are seeingdifferent things.
I think that's what happenswith art.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
That's what happens with story.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
My hope is that it would be a book that could be
handed to someone who is at aspecific pivot point, whether
it's good or whether it's hard,whether it feels like a mountain
fold at the time or it's reallya valley fold.
I hope that there will bepeople that will pick up a copy
for their graduating seniorsthat they will.
(12:48):
Maybe it's a graduation giftyou give to people, or as you
are getting ready to leave foruniversity.
Or the parents, right theparents that are now needing to
find a different dream and thinkabout what their life will look
like without that person in thenest.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, I want to come back to that, but I want to
bring something else up.
You've talked about this as aphilosophy and a strategy.
Yeah, that's not a word I wouldthink of.
That would naturally come tomind when I think of a story
like this.
So what do you mean by astrategy?
How does this book become astrategy for helping people meet
their potential?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
The way that the story unfolds, that it's going
to be hard to use this wordwithout, you know, feeling
really cheesy about it.
But the way, but truly the waythat the story unfolds and we
won't go into it now, but I willtell you is that it starts with
a dream.
It moves to a sense.
(13:55):
The next chapter is called play, and so there's this sense of
what does it mean?
To kind of bump into what youlove to do?
So I will often call playpractice in disguise.
So that's the second chapter.
The next chapter, chapter three,is try, and once again this
(14:18):
tracks to a strategy, aphilosophy, that it's one thing
to have a dream, it's anotherthing to just kind of practice
and figure out what you areenjoying in the, in the world.
And then try is putting someintention behind it, like okay,
if I need to get there, thenwhat will I need to do?
(14:38):
And so we would say that tryreally looks like practice with
intention, like deliberatelypracticing something to get you
to the next place.
The fourth chapter is fly, andthat is where there's the
takeoff right.
There is the pursuit andlifetime release of a dream and
(15:03):
the final step in the strategyor a philosophy, as we are
inviting the reader to thinkabout is home.
We know that it's one thing tolive a dream and it's another
thing to realize.
Is this all that there is Now?
What do I do?
And we would say that homeisn't that place of comfort, as
(15:25):
much as it's a place to giveyour life away, to share the
lessons that you've learned, togo home and help the people
around you, in your sphere, inyour circle, be better at what
they are doing and what they arepart of.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
How do you think teams can benefit from this?
There's like in our notes hereyou talk about you know,
unfolded is really for anybodyin transition, anybody who feels
like they're called bysomething, living their dream.
There's a lot of languagearound kind of that personal
journey we're all on.
But I've also heard you talkabout it this whole idea,
(16:05):
metaphor, philosophy, strategyas being really beneficial for
teams.
How do you think a team sayeight people or whatever can
benefit from this same allegory,people or whatever can benefit
from this, from the sameallegory?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
The team can benefit, because rarely does everyone
look the same, sound the same,yeah, and the cast of characters
that we introduce in unfoldedhave a way of working together
as a team where there'ssynergies between people and an
understanding of why there's notsynergy with others and and At
(16:39):
the heart of it, I think we wantto invite people to think about
what they can learn about thedreams of people, and not you
know, we know that there's ajobs to be done but to
understand what motivates people, what gets them excited, what
they were doing as a young child, even that they can kind of
(17:01):
pull forward to today.
I mean, you have the podcast,but when you were young it was
stand-up comedy, right, sothere's just opportunities to as
a leader.
For me, it is important to knowwhat are some of the dreams of
the people that I work with andwork around by way of how am I
(17:24):
getting in the way of someoneelse's dream?
How am I helping someone unfoldto be refolded into who they
want to be in their next step inthe journey?
So, there's multiple bounces.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, so many bounces to this, because I guess what
I'm thinking of is.
So the character of OrigamiCrane is optimistic, has the
dream, is kind of in relentlesspursuit of this.
But then you've got the othercharacters that some of them I
almost identified with more, andwe're not going to go into the
whole cast of characters.
(17:59):
So I wonder if you know if ateam is reading this.
They can, and I don't think thegoal is for everyone to become
the origami crane, but there'selements of that that.
It's like maybe you're got alittle too much of the fox in
you and maybe you need to figureout why that is.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
The fox is.
If there's a villain, it'sprobably the fox.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Is that accurate?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah.
So anyway, I just I think thatwould be a uh could be a fun
activity.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
It's a fun activity or it's a it would be fun it
would be fun, it would be ameaningful activity to begin to
consider who plays the differentvoices and if you're ready to
put that voice to bed and andpick up a new voice yeah, um so.
So I've had a shorthand withsome of our pre-readers as I've
been talking, and there was ayounger professional that was
(18:51):
reading the book and I was justtelling her you are a young owl
with a little bit of eagle, andit just seems like you're giving
people numbers or assigningthem a different personality
type.
But after this book, I thinkthere's a shorthand that people
of all ages will resonate with,and that's the part I'm really
(19:15):
excited by, and I think, morethan ever right now, people are
being forced to dream and thinkand explore what their next
chapter is going to be, andhopefully this will provide some
universal handles for that.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Well, linda, this is great.
I'm excited that this dream hasbeen realized your dream,
brian's dream, the collectivedream and I'm just excited to
get a physical book in my handsI know you are too and then to
actually get it out to a wideraudience and get feedback and
start interacting it, becausethat's when I think it will
(19:53):
really come alive.
So, thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Thank you, Nathan.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
And thank you, listeners, for listening to the
Leadership Vision Podcast.
You can click the link in theshow notes or go to
shoobringscom to pre-order yourcopy of Unfolded Lessons in
Transformation from an OrigamiCrane, available everywhere.
You get your books on June 4th2025.
We would also love it if youcould share this podcast episode
(20:18):
and any of our other materialwith someone that you think
would benefit from this message.
I'm Nathan Friberg.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I'm Linda.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Shubring and on behalf of our entire team,
thanks for listening.
Thank you.
Visit us on the web atleadershipvisionconsultingcom.
Today in the podcast, I amjoined by Dr Linda Schubring for
a conversation abouttransformation, the power of
story and how listening shapeswho we become.
We're going to be diving intosome of the heart behind
Unfolded Lessons inTransformation from an Origami
Crane, which is a new bookcoming out June 4th that Linda
(00:42):
co-authored with Brian.
That blends metaphor andmeaning and strategy to help all
of us reflect, grow and dreamforward.
Let's get into it, hi, linda.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Hey, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I'm great.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
It's just the two of us.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
It is just the two of us.
It's easier to edit when it'sjust two people in conversation.
That's not to say anythingagainst Brian, but you and I
have not done a solo podcast fora while, so I'm excited to talk
to you today.
I think we're going to talkabout transformation.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
You and Brian have your new book coming out here in
a couple of months.
I guess, at the point of whatwe're recording, this It'll be a
month, yeah, of months.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I guess at the point of what we're recording this.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Something I've heard you say a bunch was how a lot of
what unfolded in the bookunfolded Lessons in
Transformation from an origamicrane, from listening, from the
stories that you heard fromclients.
The characters in the book arenot any one client, but like a
whole bunch of clients together.
(01:45):
Can you just talk a little bitor describe what that means and
how listening the idea oflistening kind of shaped some of
what this book is about.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, I think that's how we approach people.
I think at Leadership Visionover the years.
When we're sitting with people,we are not just listening to
the words that they are saying,we're listening to what's
important to them.
We're listening to the tenor oftheir voice.
We're listening to wherethey're coming from, we're
listening to things that areimportant to them, and when
(02:20):
Brian and I started writing thebook together, there was a
realization that we could dosomething with all this data
that we had.
The stories that we gathered,the stories that we heard could
be integrated as kind of metathemes into our book.
I think it's the craft oflistening that we've been doing
for so many years and, as youknow about Brian and me, you
(02:43):
know we listen and then we tryto make meaning and then we want
to do something with it.
We want to use the lessonswe're learning to help other
people, the insights that we'regathering to invite people into
a deeper story, and so I thinkabout the people that I've heard
about.
I think about positive ornegative.
(03:04):
Usually someone's a shapingvoice for the good or bad, as
well as spheres of influence,many, many different things.
The common thread, nathan, isthat what makes us human is that
we are growing and changingpeople, and obviously there's
times in our lives when we getstuck.
(03:26):
Yet, um, there's something thathappens in places of growth and
that's where we name where inour life, and that's why the,
the origami animals, are madeout of maps.
Usually, growth happens in somespecific place, and so all that
(03:48):
came together in the creationof our story.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I'm curious.
In some ways we're doing apractice podcast here, for when
you go on the podcast circuitpromoting this.
I want to talk about origami,when we were texting about this
yesterday.
It's the book's not aboutorigami, it's about
transformation.
So can you tell me why did youchoose origami to tell the story
of transformation?
(04:12):
Why maybe specifically anorigami crane, and how did that
evolve or come out of this wholeidea of listening and hearing
from other people's stories?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
listening and hearing from other people's stories.
The heart of the idea was frombrian right, so this thought
that will be.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
That will be his, his to answer that later.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Sure, we'll hit hit more of that later.
But but for me, when brian said, okay, we, this is going to be
origami and this is going to bea crane, and this is why and the
story began to unfold in hismind and then he would pass it
to me, I really started to lookat elements of origami that were
(04:56):
really beautiful and that isthe simplicity and that is the
elegance and that is componentsof every origami.
Animal usually starts with amountain fold and it also then
is there's a valley fold.
And as I was reading a littlebit up on origami and trying to
(05:19):
think about how this metaphor,how we could kind of pull a
thread through the metaphor, Ithought there are so many
mountaintop experiences in ourlife and those usually are
points of pivot and points ofchange, the things that we
celebrate, whether it's a newhome or a new partner, a new job
, a new promotion, a new place,and all those mountaintop
(05:41):
experiences.
I think as humans we want to orwe choose to celebrate.
So we celebrate the graduations, we celebrate the retirements,
we celebrate the weddings, themarkers in our story where it is
a point of transformation fromone thing to the next.
And when I started to thinkabout the valley folds.
(06:02):
I couldn't help but think abouthow disease and death and a
diagnosis and suffering and arole being eliminated, or
needing to ask for forgiveness,or realizing that we're not the
same people that we were, thatthose, those parts of grief are
(06:24):
about the, the valleyexperiences which we can track
to a valley fold in in origami,and so I wouldn't say that we
are the foremost experts onorigami, but I would say that we
tried to use components of themetaphor to really pull through
and begin to speak about change,adaptation, transformation in
(06:49):
some different ways.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
You know it's interesting.
So part of the book isUnfolding.
It's in the title.
Is it fair to say that part ofthat process is realizing that a
valley fold might actually be amountain fold or vice versa?
Because the reason I asked thatis because it was my son's
birthday yesterday and I can'tbelieve it, I can't believe he's
(07:11):
12 wild, but something thatI've done since he was one and I
do with my other kids as wellas I'll take all the videos I
shot on my phone and edit itinto a little three to four
minute highlight video, and lastnight we watched all 12 of his
Come on.
And it was very emotional.
I can't imagine what's going tobe like in.
I'm going to do it till he's 18.
(07:32):
But where I'm going with thisis that the one of the COVID
year, so 2020, so he would havebeen.
What is that?
Seven into eight, his eighthyear.
I watched that.
With such a mountain experience,that was an amazing year.
I cannot believe how simplethings were, but at that time I
(07:53):
remember it being so difficultand being like dear God, I'm not
going to get through this.
So I don't know where myquestion is in this, other than
to say can you sort of talk usthrough that process of humans
realizing when you unfold orlook at your map, look at your
life experiences and be like,actually that was deeply
(08:17):
changing and transformative.
And without this little fourminute video, like I don't know
why it hit me so hard last night, but I was like good grief that
I just remember that being sodifficult, but it was like so
powerful, so I don't know.
Just I guess reflect on that ortalk about that, or what does
that have to do with anythinghere?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
It has a lot to do with things, because that is a
point of transition, like Ithink that even your son's story
maps a bit to our allegory, inthat you know he is pursuing
dreams through figuring out whathe likes and that he's a little
bit of a ham in front of thecamera and he can command an
(08:57):
audience and, um, he looks afterhis siblings.
So there there's, there's some.
There's some beauty in that, Ithink, when you think back to
situations where, wow, that wasreally hard in the midst of it,
but then, kind of this was thejoy as a result.
Or I remember for me goingthrough and I'll come back to
(09:20):
you, but for me going throughcancer, I remember I would tell
our daughter I would say, okay,remember, what's the best part
of cancer?
She's like you and me get tospend more time together.
Right and I cherish that.
So, although I was very sickfor many, many of those days,
the days, that.
(09:40):
I felt good.
She and I had so much fun.
She had so much fun in her, herformative years and my points
of suffering.
So of course I can waxnostalgic and I can look back
and think like, okay, yeah, Iwas getting killed, like that
was chemo was trying to kill me,covid was trying to kill all
(10:00):
families, it felt like, and soof course, looking back at some
of those times and thenwondering, wow, like we, there
was goodness that came from it.
I don't think it detracts fromthe fact that at a at the time
it was a defining moment.
It felt negative in the time.
I think when you look back itcould have been very pivotal in
(10:20):
how close your family is.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah Well, you're talking about being meaning
makers and you're talking aboutmaking meaning out of something.
How much does the book dealwith or talk about that process?
Because a lot of people, Ithink, just kind of zip through
their life without taking amoment to look back and draw
some connections, to make somemeaning out of things that
(10:46):
otherwise just flies by.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, I think there is a practice of meaning making.
We know that as humans, we aremeaning making machines.
However, sometimes the fastpace of our lives and the
busyness of our lives just putus into survival mode.
And even right now in our world, with everything changing so
fast and a lot of uncertaintyand a bit of chaos, it is okay.
(11:11):
Where do I have a chance tobreathe and how do I look around
at what's happening now so Ican take some more purposeful
action forward?
So I wouldn't say that we, youknow an allegory will invite the
reader to think about yourselfor think about what might of
(11:33):
story, and the gift of storyallows us to step into a story
wherever we start to resonate.
So, I think there will be peoplethat will read the story and
when they look at one part oftheir life, they will say, oh
yeah, those are the voices in myhead.
Or they might say those are thecharacters in my team.
(11:56):
Or yeah, that is a similardream that I had and how I
wanted to navigate my life or myworld.
So, yeah, I'm curious about howpeople will take this and run
with it.
I think that there will bemeaning to be made in so many
different ways.
Some of the things that we'veintended to happen have come out
(12:20):
in like people are seeingdifferent things.
I think that's what happenswith art.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
That's what happens with story.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
My hope is that it would be a book that could be
handed to someone who is at aspecific pivot point, whether
it's good or whether it's hard,whether it feels like a mountain
fold at the time or it's reallya valley fold.
I hope that there will bepeople that will pick up a copy
for their graduating seniorsthat they will.
(12:48):
Maybe it's a graduation giftyou give to people, or as you
are getting ready to leave foruniversity.
Or the parents, right theparents that are now needing to
find a different dream and thinkabout what their life will look
like without that person in thenest.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, I want to come back to that, but I want to
bring something else up.
You've talked about this as aphilosophy and a strategy.
Yeah, that's not a word I wouldthink of.
That would naturally come tomind when I think of a story
like this.
So what do you mean by astrategy?
How does this book become astrategy for helping people meet
their potential?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
The way that the story unfolds, that it's going
to be hard to use this wordwithout, you know, feeling
really cheesy about it.
But the way, but truly the waythat the story unfolds and we
won't go into it now, but I willtell you is that it starts with
a dream.
It moves to a sense.
(13:55):
The next chapter is called play, and so there's this sense of
what does it mean?
To kind of bump into what youlove to do?
So I will often call playpractice in disguise.
So that's the second chapter.
The next chapter, chapter three,is try, and once again this
(14:18):
tracks to a strategy, aphilosophy, that it's one thing
to have a dream, it's anotherthing to just kind of practice
and figure out what you areenjoying in the, in the world.
And then try is putting someintention behind it, like okay,
if I need to get there, thenwhat will I need to do?
(14:38):
And so we would say that tryreally looks like practice with
intention, like deliberatelypracticing something to get you
to the next place.
The fourth chapter is fly, andthat is where there's the
takeoff right.
There is the pursuit andlifetime release of a dream and
(15:03):
the final step in the strategyor a philosophy, as we are
inviting the reader to thinkabout is home.
We know that it's one thing tolive a dream and it's another
thing to realize.
Is this all that there is Now?
What do I do?
And we would say that homeisn't that place of comfort, as
(15:25):
much as it's a place to giveyour life away, to share the
lessons that you've learned, togo home and help the people
around you, in your sphere, inyour circle, be better at what
they are doing and what they arepart of.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
How do you think teams can benefit from this?
There's like in our notes hereyou talk about you know,
unfolded is really for anybodyin transition, anybody who feels
like they're called bysomething, living their dream.
There's a lot of languagearound kind of that personal
journey we're all on.
But I've also heard you talkabout it this whole idea,
(16:05):
metaphor, philosophy, strategyas being really beneficial for
teams.
How do you think a team sayeight people or whatever can
benefit from this same allegory,people or whatever can benefit
from this, from the sameallegory?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
The team can benefit, because rarely does everyone
look the same, sound the same,yeah, and the cast of characters
that we introduce in unfoldedhave a way of working together
as a team where there'ssynergies between people and an
understanding of why there's notsynergy with others and and At
(16:39):
the heart of it, I think we wantto invite people to think about
what they can learn about thedreams of people, and not you
know, we know that there's ajobs to be done but to
understand what motivates people, what gets them excited, what
they were doing as a young child, even that they can kind of
(17:01):
pull forward to today.
I mean, you have the podcast,but when you were young it was
stand-up comedy, right, sothere's just opportunities to as
a leader.
For me, it is important to knowwhat are some of the dreams of
the people that I work with andwork around by way of how am I
(17:24):
getting in the way of someoneelse's dream?
How am I helping someone unfoldto be refolded into who they
want to be in their next step inthe journey?
So, there's multiple bounces.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, so many bounces to this, because I guess what
I'm thinking of is.
So the character of OrigamiCrane is optimistic, has the
dream, is kind of in relentlesspursuit of this.
But then you've got the othercharacters that some of them I
almost identified with more, andwe're not going to go into the
whole cast of characters.
(17:59):
So I wonder if you know if ateam is reading this.
They can, and I don't think thegoal is for everyone to become
the origami crane, but there'selements of that that.
It's like maybe you're got alittle too much of the fox in
you and maybe you need to figureout why that is.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
The fox is.
If there's a villain, it'sprobably the fox.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Is that accurate?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah.
So anyway, I just I think thatwould be a uh could be a fun
activity.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
It's a fun activity or it's a it would be fun it
would be fun, it would be ameaningful activity to begin to
consider who plays the differentvoices and if you're ready to
put that voice to bed and andpick up a new voice yeah, um so.
So I've had a shorthand withsome of our pre-readers as I've
been talking, and there was ayounger professional that was
(18:51):
reading the book and I was justtelling her you are a young owl
with a little bit of eagle, andit just seems like you're giving
people numbers or assigningthem a different personality
type.
But after this book, I thinkthere's a shorthand that people
of all ages will resonate with,and that's the part I'm really
(19:15):
excited by, and I think, morethan ever right now, people are
being forced to dream and thinkand explore what their next
chapter is going to be, andhopefully this will provide some
universal handles for that.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Well, linda, this is great.
I'm excited that this dream hasbeen realized your dream,
brian's dream, the collectivedream and I'm just excited to
get a physical book in my handsI know you are too and then to
actually get it out to a wideraudience and get feedback and
start interacting it, becausethat's when I think it will
(19:53):
really come alive.
So, thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Thank you, Nathan.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
And thank you, listeners, for listening to the
Leadership Vision Podcast.
You can click the link in theshow notes or go to
shoobringscom to pre-order yourcopy of Unfolded Lessons in
Transformation from an OrigamiCrane, available everywhere.
You get your books on June 4th2025.
We would also love it if youcould share this podcast episode
(20:18):
and any of our other materialwith someone that you think
would benefit from this message.
I'm Nathan Friberg.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I'm Linda.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Shubring and on behalf of our entire team,
thanks for listening.
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