July 21, 2025 • 50 mins
In this episode of the Leadership Vision Podcast, we’re joined by Dan Silvert—behavioral expert, keynote speaker, and co-founder of Velocity Advisory Group. Dan shares his journey from sound engineer to leadership consultant, revealing how self-awareness, emotional intelligence, and behavioral flexibility are the keys to unlocking a team’s full potential.
We dive into Dan's "bird" styles based on the DISC behavioral styles, what it means to “match the moment,” and how leaders can adapt their style to connect, inspire, and grow their teams, especially in the face of uncertainty and AI-driven change. Dan’s message is both practical and profound, encouraging leaders to stretch beyond their defaults and surface the genius in others.
What You’ll Learn:
- Why people—not products—are the true competitive advantage
- How to recognize and adapt your behavioral style using DISC
- What it means to “match the moment, not the mirror”
- How AI reveals our relationship with uncertainty and change
- Strategies to lead with emotional intelligence, not ego
- Why curiosity and humility are essential in today’s leadership landscape
Key Quotes:
"You're either going to hit what you were put on this planet to do—or you're selling yourself short." – Dan Silvert
“If you’re not interested in surfacing the genius of other people—why are you leading?” – Dan Silvert
Resources & Links:
- Learn more about Dan Silvert and Velocity Advisory Group: www.velocityadvisorygroup.com
- Dan’s book: The True Competitive Advantage
- Learn more about Leadership Vision: www.leadershipvisionconsulting.com
Connect with Us:
- Follow us on LinkedIn: Leadership Vision
- Subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts
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📘 Grab your copy + get the FREE Reflection Guide!
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Read the full blog post here!
CONTACT US
- email: connect@leadershipvisionconsulting.com
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ABOUT
The Leadership Vision Podcast is a weekly show sharing our expertise in discovering, practicing, and implementing a Strengths-based approach to people, teams, and culture. Contact us to talk to us about helping your team understand the power of Strengths.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If we can just take a step back, laugh at ourselves
in a really healthy way, see thevalue in what other people
bring to the table and lean,lean in their direction.
It's not about reinventingyourself, but it is about
leaning.
Now you're diversifying yourportfolio of behaviors.
We all know diversification iskey in your finances, so why
(00:22):
wouldn't it be key in yourbehavior?
So you've got people around youthat have behaviors that you
could use a little more of.
Ask them humility, lead in thatdirection.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Welcome to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our
show helping you build positiveteam culture.
Our consulting team has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about us, you canclick the link in the show
notes or visit us on the web atleadershipvisionconsultingcom.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Friberg and today we are
(00:56):
joined by Dan Silvert,behavioral expert, keynote
speaker, author of the book theTrue Competitive Advantage and
co-founder of Velocity AdvisorGroup, where he has worked with
thousands of leaders to uncoverthe real competitive advantage
in business people.
Now, dan's background isanything but typical From
musician to sound engineer, tocareer coach and leadership
(01:18):
consultant, his story is full ofunexpected turns that led him
to a deep passion forself-awareness and team
transformation.
In this conversation, dan helpsus rethink how we respond to
uncertainty, especially in theage of AI, and challenges us to
match the moment, not the mirror.
Now, as you listen, considerwhat behavioral energy you
(01:38):
default to and where might youneed to flex in order to better
lead or connect with thosearound you.
Might you need to flex in orderto better lead or connect with
those around you?
Let's just dive in here, as Danis telling Brian, linda and I
just a little bit more about hisbackground.
Enjoy.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I have arrived at this place like all of us, in
ways that were well, I shouldn'tsay all of us.
Some of us are very planned inour journey and then there are
people like me who just kind offigured it out along the way.
So a fairly unorthodoxbackground.
I lived in my early 20s.
(02:16):
I lived in Israel for six yearsand was a musician and a sound
engineer, and there I met myCanadian wife.
I was a musician and a soundengineer and there I met my
Canadian wife, and the turmoilof a startup in Israel kind of
led me into kind of an HR rolewhich didn't make any sense for
the sound engineer, but that'swhat ended up happening.
And then we moved back to theStates and I got into sales for
(02:39):
a while and then I got intocareer coaching and I did that
for eight years and then I gotinto career coaching and I did
that for eight years and Icoached easily over a thousand
executives through theirtransitions and it really taught
me a lot about human nature.
But it was very constrainedbecause I was there to take a
person that was stuck and helpthem get unstuck so they can get
a job, and then that's it.
(03:00):
You move on and and I was goodat it, but it got boring, quite
frankly.
As amazing as it is to helppeople in that particular way
and frankly there's reallynothing like it actually, even
when I look back on it, whensomebody goes from the pit of
just being lost and unemployedand all the stress to a place of
getting to that it is awesome.
But intellectually it was morehard than it was intellect for
(03:24):
me.
So then I kind of discoveredDISC and the whole behavioral
style thing and I didMyers-Briggs and Hogan and a
bunch of stuff and for somereason it just lit me up, like I
just became obsessed and mywife thought I was crazy, and
she really did, because Icouldn't shut up about it.
I just could not stop with itand it was, you know, somewhat
(03:46):
spiritual.
I believe that Hashem, that God, was saying here you go, this
is it.
Here you go.
And it wasn't rational.
And so I co-authored a bookcalled Taking Flight and that
book was published in ninelanguages, which is a nice way
of saying it wasn't read in ninelanguages, but it was still a
(04:09):
lot of fun and you know, allgood, all good.
And then I went off on my ownfor a bit and did my thing, and
there I met Dave Fackman.
I met my current partner thelast 13 years at a conference
for the book Taking Flight.
I went off on my own and thenhe and I got together and he
(04:31):
brought me in to work for someclients of his.
And here, 13 years later, herewe are.
So how did I get here?
I don't know how the hell I gothere.
I was a musician and soundengineer who got obsessed with
self-awareness.
And then I just turned thatinto my purpose.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Dan, what ignited that profound interest in
self-awareness?
Was it a connection to you orto what you saw was happening in
other people's lives?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Good question.
I suspect that because I waslost, that I didn't really know
who I was, it fueled this sensethat you know what, to be raw
about it.
So I went through a periodwhere I was unemployed for a
(05:23):
year and it was, you know, I wasmarried with a young child and
I it was just searing, searingexperience, and a big part of it
was that I just didn't know whoI was.
So I didn't know what kind ofcareer to pursue, I didn't know
what my skills or talents were.
And you know there's a lot ofpsychology that goes into that,
(05:44):
because if you're that lost andthen you can say, well, I don't
have any skills and talents,right, and then you internalize
that, and so climbing out ofthat kind of gave me a passion
for well, first of all, anintuition for when other people
are like that.
I can smell it because I wasthere right and then I worked
(06:04):
with a lot of people to get themthrough.
So I'm kind of like anemergency room doctor.
If you're in an emergency, well, you know what a car accident
looks like because you've seenit.
So I saw that from differentangles and it just became my
thing Getting out of careercoaching into executive coaching
(06:24):
.
What was amazing about that is,instead of simply helping
people once they've already losttheir jobs, it's saying okay,
you're successful.
Don't take that for granted.
Here are some blind spots thatwill keep you successful, as
opposed to ending up unemployed,because we all know very
(06:45):
talented people who don'tunderstand other people.
They're really good atexecuting on their own, but
they're not so good atconnecting with others, and
therefore they hit a ceiling,and once they hit that ceiling,
they go sideways, and so I'mdesperate to prevent that from
happening.
Yeah, they go sideways, and soI I'm desperate to prevent that
from happening, yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Dan, when you were in your just one more question on
the loss thing did you havesomeone helping you through that
, like, were you being somementored and invited into
reflection by the guidance ofsomebody else?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
No, I wasn't.
I think that was, and that's.
You know, my dad wasn't builtthat way, so he wasn't able to
help me.
And I used to always say, gosh,if I just had a mentor.
That used to be like a thing.
And then at some point you justsay, all right, stop
complaining and become your ownmentor and become wildly curious
about what's out there and havecuriosity, weaponize your
(07:44):
curiosity to build yourself.
So where do I take that?
Like even today with AI.
When I see people burying theirheads in the sand about AI, it
triggers me.
Say, oh, no, no, no, you're notgoing to do that.
That's not healthy for you,Because if you do that, you're
going to end up being washedaway, and if you're going to
(08:04):
work with me, that's not goingto happen.
So I have a very like.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I don't know it's a strong aversion to denial.
Ooh, where does that come?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
from Well, I think it's all part of the same thing.
If you're in denial aboutwhat's actually happening around
you, you're not going todiscover what your hidden
potential actually is, andthat's not acceptable.
It's just not acceptable.
It's like you don't even havethe right to limit yourself that
way.
As far as I'm concerned, Oohdamn, weaponize your curiosity.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
Weaponize is such a bad term,curiosity is such a great term,
so unpack that.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I love it.
It's a little bit provocative.
But weaponize meaning thatyou're not kidding around.
Sure, this isn't some kind oflike oh, maybe this, maybe that?
No, no, no, no, no.
This isn't some kind of like oh, maybe this, maybe that.
No, no, no, no, no.
You're either going to hit whatyou were put on this planet to
do.
You're either going toexperience that or you're
selling yourself short, and Idon't.
That's just not acceptable.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
How do people respond when you invite them into that
weaponized curiosity?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
How do they?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
respond to you.
I'd love to hear some stories.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
It depends.
So my ability to flex to theright style at the right time is
the key to that, because if Icome across as strong as I just
did with you to a particulartype of person, it just shuts
them down, and so I try topractice what I preach.
So if I've got the profile ofthe person that I'm talking to
(09:51):
and I'm, for example, workingwith a dove owl in my world I
don't know how familiar you arewith the birds and the
terminology, are you?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
guys familiar with DISC.
We have it right in front of us.
Yeah, oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
So if I'm working with someone whose primary aim
in life is to create harmonyaround themselves, then the
harmony they want for othersthey want for themselves.
And you know, george BernardShaw, any virtue carried to an
extreme can become a crime.
So if you take harmony too far,then you actually cage yourself
because you don't get out ofyour comfort zone, right?
(10:27):
So if I'm working with someonewho has a lot of dove energy,
well then this is going to takea while.
I've got to get them to a placeof comfort where they're
willing to stretch.
If I'm working with an eagle,in the first call I'm kind of
whacking them over the head andthey love it.
(10:50):
Because for somebody withdominant style energy, don't
waste my time and don't get allwoo on me.
You've got to be practical, youhave to.
I need a line of sight, and sowhere I am and where it is, I'm
going.
And you know, for me personally, I'm kind of activated by that.
So it takes more CPU power forme to kind of dove out.
(11:13):
Yeah, but it's obviously, youknow, match the moment, not the
mirror.
That's what we say.
Yeah, you know, if you're notmatching the moment, you're
missing the moment.
That's right, so that's what Itry to do.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Can you expand on that match, the mirror match,
the moment?
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Sure, so we've got four different energies.
A behavioral profile is not apersonality profile Right, right
.
So we've got dominant influence, steady, conscientious.
So we've got eagles, parrots,doves and owls, right, and these
represent energy in the worldand every thought that you have
is, in fact, a burst ofelectricity.
It's literally energy.
(11:49):
Right, so there are eaglemoments out there.
For example, you're walkingdown the sidewalk and a little
girl is about to get run over bya car, right.
So if we're going to match themoment, are we going to go into?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
parrot mode and be wildly optimistic.
She'll survive?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
No, Are we going to dove out and say, oh, I'm really
, really concerned?
No, Are we going to owl out andstart calculating the distance
and speed between the car?
No, it's an eagle moment.
We're going to run into thestreet, we're going to push the
child out of the way, we'reprobably going to get hit by the
car, we're going to end up in ahospital, but it's an eagle
(12:34):
moment, Okay.
So massive moment means to askyourself what energy gets the
most out of this particularopportunity.
And that could be sittingacross from a person like I was
describing before, if I'mcoaching someone with a lot of
Dove Owl energy, or it could be.
Hey, we have suboptimal levelsof information here, but a
decision needs to be made.
So if we don't flex to thatmoment, then we've missed it or
(13:02):
we've made the kind of we'resuffering from, the kinds of
setbacks that are common whenyou don't plan properly.
So if we don't match the momentand slow this down and take a
deeper dive on how we got hereand where we need to do some MRI
data collection, we're going tocontinue messing this up.
(13:25):
Match the moment, but thatmeans you have to be aware.
You have to ask yourself okay,what moment am I in?
Who am I Meaning?
What's my prejudice, what isthe prejudice of the team that
I'm in and how can we harmonizethat?
So at first this is a littlebit.
You know it's a lot, but.
But it's.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
You know this isn't complicated.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Once you, once you can become unconsciously
confident at this fairly quickly.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Yeah, dan, when you were speaking and even talking
about matching the moment, Ican't help but think about how
you might have acted orinteracted as a sound engineer,
because what are some of the?
Yeah, because some of what arethe, some of the threads, like
it's like you have to turn thisup a little bit more and turn
that down a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Have you just been trained to do that?
Well, you know, I never reallygot trained to be a sound
engineer.
I was just a piano player, so Ihad to learn that from.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
But you figured it out.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So this was in the 90s, when CD-ROMs were
considered high-tech.
Remember.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
So when I look back on that period, when you're
doing narration, you have anarrator narrate the CD-ROM, and
so there are literallythousands of little snippets of
narration, which means you needa very organized file naming
convention and if you don't laythat out you're in trouble.
(14:52):
Well, I'm not an owl.
I don't have naturalorganizational skills, so I
struggled with that piece of itand now I look back on it and
laugh and go if I had known whatI then, what I know now, I
would have brought somebody inwho was really good at
systemization and it would havesaved me a lot of a lot of
heartache.
Yeah, there you go.
(15:13):
In the creative stuff I wasgood, but on the organizational
stuff, boy did I struggle.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, do you?
Do you find that?
Or how do you coach executivesto match the moment versus like
this I need to bring someoneelse in because I'm never going
to match this moment so this is,this is where is this the mean,
this is where the action isright.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
so so, you know, I love I, I, you know, I obviously
like animal metaphors, and soI'll sit down with a leadership
team, or particularly, you know,the senior executive, the CEO,
and say, ok, the lion's whisperis a roar to the jungle.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
So everything you say and don't say, do and don't do,
do and don't do is magnifiedand your job as a leader is to
surface the genius of otherpeople.
If you're not doing that, thenwhy are you a leader?
Like, go be an individualcontributor, right and in
(16:17):
today's world, go figure out howto use weaponize that word
again AI bots to do yourmarketing and do your copy.
Because if you're notinterested in surfacing the
genius of other people, then youprobably shouldn't be a leader.
I mean and I've challenged alot of people, a lot of the
executives I've worked with onthis, like you know, why are you
(16:38):
here?
And the answer for most peoplealthough they often won't say it
is because that's my careertrajectory.
I want to make more money, Iwant to be more.
So it's about me, except itcan't be about you Correct, not
in leadership.
So if I know, let's say I'm aneagle owl, so I'm a get it done
(17:00):
bottom line, practical, no drama, execute.
That's my primary and mysecondary is I like to call the
owls the guardians of integrity.
So the conscientious stylestake quality personally, like,
if it doesn't represent highquality, it's disturbing to them
(17:22):
, they go home with that, theytalk to their spouses about it.
They're like their kids, theirdogs.
They're just like it's sounnerving, okay.
So let's say you've got a lotof eagle in you and a lot of owl
in you, okay, well, that's apressure cooker of progress.
Because, the eagle in you isgoing to say yesterday, we
(17:43):
needed this yesterday.
And the owl is going to say no,no, no, no, we're not ready for
that, we don't have the properanalysis to make that decision.
And so that inner turmoil is aproductivity engine.
You're the CEO and now you walkinto your leadership meeting
(18:04):
and you're surrounded by dovesand owls.
How does your energy impactthem?
And master moment not themirror means that to the extent
you honor their styles and youlean in their direction, you
activate their potential.
But it's more complex than that, because you represent
(18:24):
qualities that they don't have.
So how do you introduce the joyof Eagle Energy to someone who
doesn't share that, so that theycan learn how to lean in your
direction?
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Hey, dan, I got a question on this when you
mentioned that phrase.
I'm paraphrasing if you're notinterested in surfacing the
genius of your people, why areyou a leader?
Here's my question have youseen any shift of that
perspective more towards thefour in the last four or five
years?
Have you seen anythinghappening in this present
(18:59):
landscape that has indicatedexecutives are more willing to
do that, or are they moreunwilling to do that?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Contradictory forces pulling in opposite directions.
On the one hand, the speed ofchange shrinks, patience and
empathy shrinks patience andempathy.
And if the pace of changerequires me to just sprint, I'm
(19:35):
not going to have thewherewithal to slow down and pay
attention to you and do therequisite discovery required to
help you figure out your ownmystery, because we're all a
mystery.
I'm too busy running reallyfast.
So that's one pull, but theother pull is all the research
that have captivated you overthe last 10 years, which is that
(19:55):
healthy cultures creatediscovery and health in our
employees and our leadershipteams, who then grow our
organizations way beyond whatany possible CEO could come up
with.
So if you don't create ahealthy environment, a healthy
culture, then you're literallyleaving all that potential on
the table, which is notacceptable.
(20:18):
Not even on the table.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
It's not even on the table.
It's under a rock somewhere.
Yeah, yeah, not even on thetable.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
It's not even on the table, it's under.
It's under a rock somewhere.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, so that'sparadox.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Now he's rubbing his hands.
Here we go.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Well, dan, that's just something, this whole idea.
I appreciate thestraightforward nature of the
way you're saying things.
I love the direct approachbecause it is getting people's
attention.
It obviously creates a surprise, which is an opening of
someone's willingness to evenlisten, because you're catching
(20:53):
them kind of a little bit offguard.
Leaders investing in theirpeople.
Like you said, our experiencewould indicate that people don't
have the time for it or they'reunwilling to take the time for
it.
If they do, tremendous thingshappen, and Linda often says
this.
We tend to find people that arewilling to take the time
(21:15):
because they understand theconsequence of not and what that
does to people, understand theconsequence of not and what that
does to people.
My mind, like as you're talkingto him, my mind, is just
spinning from some of theconversations that I find myself
in a people that are wrestlingwith just slowing down period,
like they don't have thatpractice of slowing down
themselves.
So how do they have thecapacity to slow down for others
(21:40):
?
Speaker 4 (21:41):
There isn't a question there.
Is there a?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
question there.
No, you're not.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Now you've triggered me in a good way.
Okay, go for it.
Go for it, dan, go go go, we'lltrigger each other.
Do we have the humility torecognize what a mystery each of
us is?
Does anybody?
Do we really know what we'reactually capable of?
I don't think so, and it'sarrogance Nothing short of
arrogance or fear to pretendthat we do Like.
(22:10):
The two of you are doing thingstoday that you probably weren't
doing 10 years ago, correct?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Or last week?
Yes, correct.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Okay.
So does that make you phonycompared to where you were 10
years ago?
Do we just arbitrarily choose apoint in our life?
Maybe when God forbid when wewere six years old, when we were
taught something that wasn'ttrue about us, or when we were
19 years old and like at whatpoint do we decide who I am?
When you look at a tree, it's atree, ever not perfect, Like
(22:40):
what?
Like at what stage?
Right, so we're a mystery.
And if you're a mystery toyourself when you look in the
mirror, then how in the world doyou feel entitled to decide
what someone else's potential is?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Okay, dan, now okay, ready.
Just side note careerassessment and psychometric user
.
So I'm a practitioner and youare using the DISC.
So back to the self-discoveryWith the labels that assessments
(23:20):
give people.
Sometimes that label is such alimiter and it almost serves as
a counter influence to what thetool's trying to do and people
easily want.
Well, I think the brain likeslabels.
How do you wrestle with that?
And I know that the metaphorsof your animals helps people
(23:40):
unwrap that.
But I think people myexperience people can cling to
the definitional framework of atool and miss the beauty and the
mystery of the individual.
Similar experience with you.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yes, can you say a?
Speaker 3 (23:58):
little more about that.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
So it's a real.
Real, it is a conundrum,because, on the one hand, these
profiles do illuminate yeah, yesright and, on the other hand,
depending on what your makeup isemotionally, psychologically,
you will gravitate to somethings more than others, which
then puts you back in a cage.
That the whole point of atleast this.
(24:23):
So the reason I like DISC isbecause it's simple, it's
practical and it doesn't.
It's not a selection tool.
Like I don't understandorganizations that use DISC to
hire people.
That is not what it's validatedfor.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Okay.
So it's just not Now.
Once you hire somebody, if youwant to match the moment, you
want to honor where they'recoming from, they should take it
Right and then you can rightHelp them, help them stretch and
help them grow.
So but your question is are wejust putting somebody in another
box?
Right A box that feels good Abox that feels good A box For a
(25:04):
moment Could Right, and myanswer to that is that's up to
them.
I like it.
They have to own that.
And when I do bird sessions orwhen I do keynotes on this where
you just went, I love goingthere.
You say how are you Look?
Hand a scalpel to a child.
Think of it.
They might hurt themselves.
Hand a scalpel to a surgeon andthey'll save your life.
(25:26):
It's just a tool.
But the question is are yougoing to master it?
Speaker 3 (25:33):
It's not the tool.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
The tool has its functionality, but you have to
own how it is.
You're going to apply it,because otherwise you're asking
me to do it for you and it's notmy life.
So, from a leadershipperspective, how much clarity do
you have in the mirror?
When you look in the mirror, doyou see what other people
(25:57):
actually experience on aday-to-day basis?
Most people have somedistortion in the mirror.
It's normal.
But to the extent that youstrive for clarity, you
understand why people respond toyou the way they do, especially
if you have curiosity aboutwhat makes them tick.
And if you're a seniorexecutive, then the cascading
(26:21):
impact of your ownself-awareness, combined with
your curiosity of other people,has enormous impact, because
you're the lion Right andthey're the jungle.
So this is why working withsenior leadership can be so
gratifying, because we're notjust helping an individual, but
(26:44):
the cascading impact of thatreverberates throughout the
organization.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
That was good, dan.
One of the questions that Iwant to ask you, because we're
both in our businesses.
We're one of those.
How is it that you've seen theemergence of AI impact, or how
(27:21):
does your model apply to howpeople are interacting,
interfacing with AI?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
So the way I look at AI and its emergence is it's not
about AI, it's about you.
What is your relationship withrapid change and ambiguity?
How do you process rapid change?
How do you feel when faced withdeeply ambiguous choices?
Because that relationship willdetermine your utilization of AI
(27:54):
and your sense of what thepossibilities are, both for
yourself and for yourorganization.
Your personal, emotional,psychological response to this
is predicated on rapid changeand ambiguity.
So if you're the type of personthat loves to dive in and
experiment generally speaking,it's just what makes you tick
(28:15):
right Then you're looking at AIand experiment.
Generally speaking, it's justwhat makes you tick right.
Then you're looking at AI andgoing, wow, I see a lot of
possibilities here, right, butthe folks that surround you
might be a lot more cautious andskeptical.
And, by the way, I considerskepticism to be an integrity
tool.
Skepticism is a search fortruth.
So let's say you're not high onskepticism, you're high on
(28:39):
possibilities, but you'regrounded by the people that work
with you and for you that havemuch higher doses of skepticism.
The way in which you try toweave AI into your culture needs
to honor that.
So, yes, the owls and doves aregoing to be a lot more
skeptical about AI than theeagles and parrots are right
(29:03):
With that as a framework.
Then you look at yourorganization and say, okay, what
are the most practicalapplications of AI in baby steps
that won't freak out ouremployees that they're about to
lose their jobs?
That won't freak out ouremployees that they're about to
lose their jobs?
And how can we position AI as aforce multiplier of an
individual's growth, as opposedto simply just saying, hey, this
(29:28):
is what's efficient?
Because the moment you go downthe efficiency road with your
employees, you're basicallytelegraphing that they have a
short time span in yourorganization, because the moment
AI is more efficient than theyare, they're gone, when the
exact opposite should be thecase.
You should be challenging themand inspiring them to explore
how AI can expand and broadentheir capabilities, because
(29:53):
that's what will propel yourorganization forward.
Because that's what will propelyour organization forward.
So the way in which youperceive and then message this
is a lot more powerful, at theend of the day, than the actual
AI itself.
So once again, it comes back toownership.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Did you have a client experience that almost
force-fed you this situation?
Force-fed, I'm sorry, force-fedyou this situation Force-fed.
Like where you had a clientsituation where they were really
wrestling with AI and youneeded to jump into the deep end
of the conversation, or did you, on your own, see the clouds
(30:32):
and the horizon coming in andsaid I need to prepare for this.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
So I'm a more possibilities oriented person,
so I just naturally gravitate toto these things and so and I
bring a somewhat of anoptimistic perspective on it.
But I'm also schizophrenicbecause I'm not happy about
where this is headed.
I mean, I don't think anyonewho's really looked at this can
feel tremendous optimism for thelong term without going down a
(31:01):
doomer track.
But back to the career coachingme.
You have this life and it'shappening today, and you've got
another 5, 10, 15 years of acareer in front of you.
So if you put your head in thesand on this, okay, a wave will
wash you away, and that is notacceptable.
(31:23):
It's just not acceptable.
So, regardless of the macropicture of where this is headed
which I'm actually morepessimistic about and very
deeply concerned you still havea life to live, you still have
bills to pay, you're, you knowyou have a right, and so you've
got to work with this.
(31:43):
You've got to work with this,okay.
So let me give you an example.
So I have a client who she runsa large logistics operation for
an entire country, so it's herP&L, and she's got all kinds of
conundrums that she's dealingwith and she's putting a lot of
(32:04):
pressure on herself to be theidea generator for her
organization and she's flailingbecause it's too large.
She's relatively new in thisrole.
She's only been in it a littlebit less than a year, so for up
until now she's been just tryingto figure out, okay, what is
the terrain that I am journeyingthrough?
Okay, but now she has to kindof pop up and say, okay, how can
(32:29):
we shift the terrain so that wecan get where we need to get to
?
And so I sat her down and saidall right, how much are you
using AI?
And she said, oh, I use itevery day.
I said, okay, describe that forme.
What does that mean?
She said, oh, well, when Iwrite an email, I'll pop it in.
And I said, okay, you dorealize that hundreds of
billions of dollars is beinginvested in back-end
(32:50):
infrastructure around AI.
And she said, absolutely, myorganization is doing it as well
.
Okay, do you think that'shappening so that you can write
a better email.
Do you think that that's why?
And she's like well, I guessnot.
So then I opened up one of theI don't want to show for any of
the tools, but I opened up oneof the tools.
(33:11):
I said, all right, give it tome, give me your biggest
conundrum right now.
And so she starts talking to meand I start writing this,
copying this down, and then Ithrew it into a different tool
and said okay, create a promptout of this.
And it took that and made apretty interesting prompt.
Then I went back to the firsttool and I put it in deep
research and seven minutes laterit popped out a 30-page
(33:37):
analysis on her prompt.
And as she and I worked throughit, because you could just see
her face just like what?
Wow.
So that was a couple months ago.
Now, all of the seniordirectors that report to her are
using AI for ideation, forstrategy, and it's not that AI
(34:03):
is making decisions for them,but they are learning how to
expand their own minds as towhat is possible by using this
tool.
It's still theirs to own, butnow they have tools that they
didn't have 10 minutes ago.
It's not for me to teachsomebody how to use a tool, but
(34:24):
to the extent that I can helpthem open their eyes to what's
possible, then they'll figure itout.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
It sounds to me like you're using AI to then further
reinforce.
You know your call that we needto pay attention to the
uniqueness of who we are and howwe show up, even in the use of
tools.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yes, because at the end of the day, you have to own
your life.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
And what are the tools that are you going to
utilize to help you do that?
So it is a bit of a paradox.
On the one hand it's about youowning it, but a big part of
owning it is honoring otherpeople, Because through other
people you discover yourself,Because their interactions with
(35:10):
you are what unlock potentialsthat you didn't know were even
there.
Again, we're a mystery.
We don't know what we'recapable of, and we're social
animals.
If we don't interact withpeople around us, we'll never
find out.
So you know.
Then you throw in ego and thewhole thing gets messed up.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
And we'll have jobs forever right.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
How do you keep that in check, though?
Or how do you coach others tokeep that in check, because
there's a part of all of thisthat is so humbling.
Whatever your style is, orwhatever your level of ego, you
do have to keep that in check.
So how do you work with peopleto do that?
What's the secret ingredientthere?
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Well, here I don't like to go too deep with clients
because I don't want to gobeyond Sure.
So I will go back to the versewith this and say okay, what
does each style fear the most?
Because if you understand whatyou fear, then you understand
what you're protecting.
That's right.
So eagles for example, someonewith a lot of eagle energy what
(36:15):
they fear although they they'llnever admit it is not losing,
but being a loser.
Oh, they fear this intensely.
And who decides whethersomeone's a loser or not?
Well, they do.
It's itself, it's from them,okay.
So this is why eagles areconstantly driving right.
(36:37):
So an eagle may look at ai andsay I don't have time for this,
because I used ChatGPT a coupletimes.
It didn't give me anything thatI needed and I'm falling behind
.
That's not acceptable.
So they'll just race ahead andmiss what the opportunities are
if you take a deeper dive, right?
So what do parrots fear themost?
Disapproval?
What do parrots fear the mostDisapproval?
(37:01):
What if I use AI and ithallucinates?
And I didn't have the detailorientation to figure that out,
but my colleague did.
She actually read the fineprint and then she pointed out
to me that I handed somethingover.
That was just well, I don'twant to do that.
So parents will get superexcited about what's possible,
(37:23):
but when it comes to actuallyusing it they will be reticent
because they fear the blowback,right?
So what do doves fear the most?
Damaging a relationship,because doves are all about
keeping commitments.
Because doves are all aboutkeeping commitments.
So AI creates all kinds ofpotential conflict because no
(37:45):
one really knows what it means.
Yet what are we doing?
Where are we going?
How is this going to work?
That's a lot of tension, and sodoves like to create harmony in
all environments, harmony inall relationships, and so the
whole concept of AI is just abig.
It's a conundrum.
(38:06):
Don't know how to approach it.
And our owls?
Well, they're the guardians ofintegrity For them.
If AI hallucinates once, thatmeans it's not trustworthy,
because AIs tend to suffer fromboth perfectionism and they
catastrophize.
So if it's not perfect, it's adisaster.
(38:28):
By the way, a little bit, if youdon't mind, I'm going to go a
little deeper on the owlsconscientious owls so their
fundamental focus is accuracy inall things and validity,
quality.
So what's kind of funny aboutthem is that if you have a lot
of owl energy and you're workingon something, the chances are
pretty good you have moreinformation than anyone else in
(38:48):
the room, because that's youroxygen, and yet people with a
lot of owl energy tend to be theleast confident in making
decisions.
Now, that doesn't make sense.
You would think the person withthe most information would have
the confidence to make adecision, but no.
So why is that?
Because owls don't definethemselves by what they know.
(39:08):
They define themselves by whatthey don't know, and there's
always a universe of informationout there that owls don't have,
which means they're constantlybehind the eight ball.
So owls look at AI and say, ait hallucinates and B it's
giving me a lot more data than Ican even process.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
So now I'm even more confused than I was before, and
so it freezes them.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
So if people can take a step back and have a sense of
humor about themselves andliterally laugh at the absurdity
of this whole situation, thenwe can get past that.
And now the owl can learn toflex the parrot and be a little
more optimistic, or flex theeagle and make decisions on
suboptimal levels of data, orthe doves will stop fearing
conflict and the eagles can slowdown and lean in the dove's
direction.
By the way, what a dove wouldcall a full-blown conflict, an
(39:59):
eagle would call a conversation.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Correct.
Right so if you can harmonizethese energies, then we honor
everybody and we figure it out.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
I just want to be aware of time here.
Brian.
Linda, do you have anything youwant to ask?
Dan, do you have anything youreally want to say?
I do have a a final questionI'd like to ask, but I'm
thinking of a summary to bringthis because, this a dan.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
No, no, no, no, the way you went about the ai our
listeners are gonna love it isis in my amplifying the need for
people to understand howthey're approaching change and
uncertainty around them, and AIcan often be this master monster
label that exemplifies a bunchof fear.
(40:52):
So I love how you did that,because it's still anchored in
the person's identity and that'swhere I'm thinking like the
conclusion of this is.
You know, addressing the fears,whatever they're called, it
still is how we are facing theuncertainty and the change
that's around us.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah.
So for me what that means isthat Parrots it's okay to be
disapproved of.
I want you to lean a little biteagle on that, because just
because someone disapproves oris upset with you doesn't mean
that you have lost value.
That's an illusion happening inyour head.
So you don't need to tiptoearound that and eagles.
(41:34):
You know you're not a loser, soknock it off.
So you don't need to tiptoearound that and eagles.
You know you're not a loser, soknock it off.
Okay, slow down, listen toother people, connect.
You're not the smartest personin the room and you already know
that.
So why are you moving so fast?
Right.
And for doves hey, candorstrengthens relationships and
(42:00):
being a professional also meansdisappointing other people's
part of the package.
You know that.
So have a sense of humor, havea conversation with yourself to
give yourself permission to saythe word no out loud.
Right.
For owls hey, you knowperfectionism will lead you down
the road to isolation, becauseyou're really being a
totalitarian dictator overyourself.
(42:22):
You're being way too harsh onyou and that spills out to other
people.
So instead of pursuingperfection, you need to pursue
excellence.
Excellence inspires people.
Excellence inspires people,right?
So if we can just take a stepback, laugh at ourselves in a
(42:42):
really healthy way, see thevalue in what other people bring
to the table and lean, lean intheir direction.
It's not about reinventingyourself, but it is about
leaning.
Now you're diversifying yourportfolio of behaviors.
We all know diversification iskey in your finances, so why
(43:03):
wouldn't it be key in yourbehavior, right?
So you've got people around youthat have behaviors that you
could use a little more of.
That's some humility.
Lead in that direction.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
And that's the part of your message, Dan, that I
find that we're resonating withis, you know, this call to
paying attention to who we areand the acceptance of other
people, their approach and howwe can, you know, in a sense,
help each other and helpourselves at the same time,
because both are true and bothare necessary.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
And I think it's a healing message.
I think you are's a healingmessage.
I think you are offering ahealing message to people and
some handles to get out of theirhard times, as well as help
each other.
So I've appreciated learningfrom you, dan.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Is there anything else, dan, that you want to like
?
Is there something that you'rethinking that we might have
missed, or something that yousay like you might want to
highlight in the conversationthat Nathan can post-produce in
somewhere?
Speaker 1 (44:06):
So I think for me it's not enough to be
interesting.
One has to be useful.
And to be useful to yourselfmeans just stop beating yourself
up all the time.
Celebrate what you bring to thetable, but that only really
works if you stop convictingother people of crimes they
(44:26):
never actually committed.
They just see the world andbehave in the world differently
than you do.
Find the wisdom in what they do.
Take some of that in foryourself so that you can lean in
their direction and honor wherethey're coming from.
When you have a team doing that, the collective mystery reveals
(44:48):
itself, because that's wherethe potential has always been
buried, and that's what we'retrying to do.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
I love that Holy crap .
Speaker 4 (44:59):
That's good, so good.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Dan, thank you so much.
This has been amazing.
I feel like you've given ustools to do some birdwatching,
to pay attention to the soundsand the flights and whatever of
those around us so that we canbetter know how to interact with
them.
And, you know, use the varioustools at our disposal to
(45:21):
ultimately build more positiveteam culture.
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Oh, thank you, Really enjoyed.
Thank you for having me.
It's been an honor and, wow,great, great conversation.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Dan thanks for your voice.
I hear such a prophetic,present voice like you're
speaking truth to the reality ofthe present moment.
That's what's ringing true tome.
And you're doing so like, asthe prophetic voice speaks the
truth.
The prophet speaks in a waythat is quickly accessible and
easily digestible, and you havethat in the present tense,
(45:56):
meaning you're not casting downthe road, you're not anchored in
history.
You're speaking from thiscurrent intersection that
society is standing in.
That I can see why you getpeople's attention by what
you're saying, because you'renot just talking in platitudes.
There's a depth not only towhat you're saying but how
(46:18):
you're constructing thosestatements.
That gets people's attentionand that I think is brilliant,
and I'm sure you know that.
I just want to reinforce thatyour message is something that's
needed.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
I wish I could record that play for my wife and just
say, hey this guy thinks it isbeing recorded.
Speaker 4 (46:34):
I'll send this.
It is recorded.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Send it to her Give me your email.
I'll just send it directly toher, thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Thank you for that I you know.
I thank you.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
For real, dan, because people have the courage
to think it, not the courage tospeak it.
So they'll think it tothemselves when they're by
themselves, and I wish I wouldhave said that to somebody.
So people need spokespeoplelike you to help them remove or
emerge from an echo chamber ofhearing them their own selves,
because we know in our worksometimes all we need to do is
(47:07):
say something to releasesomeone's voices, to repeat it
in their own voice, and it'sthen new to their context.
So I think stylistically youhave a way of serving as, like
an intellectual can opener tosome people.
They're able to then expressthemselves, yeah that's good.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Another big shout out , and thank you to Dan Silvert
for taking the time to chat.
I really appreciated thediscussion about the different
bird types and I shared with himoff camera about how my
brother-in-law is a birder andhe has this app on his phone
that helps him identifydifferent birds based on their
sounds and we kind of jokedabout wouldn't it be great if
(47:48):
there was something like thatfor people, so that you could
understand a little bit moreabout someone, almost like this
cheat sheet or a cheat code tosay, oh, you're more inclined to
act this way or have this typeof energy?
And one of the things that wediscussed in the episode Brian
brought it up was that thesetraits or these characteristics
or these types aren't meant tobox people in, but rather to
(48:11):
hopefully give them just anotherway to understand part of their
personality, about the way thatthey lead, about the type of
energy that they have in theworld.
And I think the you know thereal takeaway for me about this
episode is that the more that wecan understand ourselves, the
more that we can understand eachother, the better we will be in
whatever context or communityor environment that we're in.
(48:34):
So I challenge you, as you aremaybe wrestling or thinking with
some of the things that wetalked about, just to consider
that you know, what type ofenergy do you have?
Are you giving off?
Are you absorbing?
What does the moment perhapsneed more of, and how can you
rise to that occasion or findother people who do?
Thank you so much for listeningto the Leadership Vision Podcast
, our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
(48:56):
To learn more about us and whatwe do, or to learn more about
Dan, you can click the link inthe show notes or go to
leadershipvisionconsultingcom.
Or, if you want to learn moreabout Dan, it's
velocityadvisorygroupcom.
And we would appreciate it ifyou would reach out and give us
some feedback about this episode, about any of our other
resources.
What could we do to improveyour lives as team leaders, as
(49:21):
people on teams, as peopleleading organizations?
How can we help you build morepositive team culture?
My name's Nathan Freeberg and,on behalf of our entire team,
thanks for listening.
If we can just take a step back, laugh at ourselves
in a really healthy way, see thevalue in what other people
bring to the table and lean,lean in their direction.
It's not about reinventingyourself, but it is about
leaning.
Now you're diversifying yourportfolio of behaviors.
We all know diversification iskey in your finances, so why
(00:22):
wouldn't it be key in yourbehavior?
So you've got people around youthat have behaviors that you
could use a little more of.
Ask them humility, lead in thatdirection.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Welcome to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our
show helping you build positiveteam culture.
Our consulting team has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about us, you canclick the link in the show
notes or visit us on the web atleadershipvisionconsultingcom.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Friberg and today we are
(00:56):
joined by Dan Silvert,behavioral expert, keynote
speaker, author of the book theTrue Competitive Advantage and
co-founder of Velocity AdvisorGroup, where he has worked with
thousands of leaders to uncoverthe real competitive advantage
in business people.
Now, dan's background isanything but typical From
musician to sound engineer, tocareer coach and leadership
(01:18):
consultant, his story is full ofunexpected turns that led him
to a deep passion forself-awareness and team
transformation.
In this conversation, dan helpsus rethink how we respond to
uncertainty, especially in theage of AI, and challenges us to
match the moment, not the mirror.
Now, as you listen, considerwhat behavioral energy you
(01:38):
default to and where might youneed to flex in order to better
lead or connect with thosearound you.
Might you need to flex in orderto better lead or connect with
those around you?
Let's just dive in here, as Danis telling Brian, linda and I
just a little bit more about hisbackground.
Enjoy.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I have arrived at this place like all of us, in
ways that were well, I shouldn'tsay all of us.
Some of us are very planned inour journey and then there are
people like me who just kind offigured it out along the way.
So a fairly unorthodoxbackground.
I lived in my early 20s.
(02:16):
I lived in Israel for six yearsand was a musician and a sound
engineer, and there I met myCanadian wife.
I was a musician and a soundengineer and there I met my
Canadian wife, and the turmoilof a startup in Israel kind of
led me into kind of an HR rolewhich didn't make any sense for
the sound engineer, but that'swhat ended up happening.
And then we moved back to theStates and I got into sales for
(02:39):
a while and then I got intocareer coaching and I did that
for eight years and then I gotinto career coaching and I did
that for eight years and Icoached easily over a thousand
executives through theirtransitions and it really taught
me a lot about human nature.
But it was very constrainedbecause I was there to take a
person that was stuck and helpthem get unstuck so they can get
a job, and then that's it.
(03:00):
You move on and and I was goodat it, but it got boring, quite
frankly.
As amazing as it is to helppeople in that particular way
and frankly there's reallynothing like it actually, even
when I look back on it, whensomebody goes from the pit of
just being lost and unemployedand all the stress to a place of
getting to that it is awesome.
But intellectually it was morehard than it was intellect for
(03:24):
me.
So then I kind of discoveredDISC and the whole behavioral
style thing and I didMyers-Briggs and Hogan and a
bunch of stuff and for somereason it just lit me up, like I
just became obsessed and mywife thought I was crazy, and
she really did, because Icouldn't shut up about it.
I just could not stop with itand it was, you know, somewhat
(03:46):
spiritual.
I believe that Hashem, that God, was saying here you go, this
is it.
Here you go.
And it wasn't rational.
And so I co-authored a bookcalled Taking Flight and that
book was published in ninelanguages, which is a nice way
of saying it wasn't read in ninelanguages, but it was still a
(04:09):
lot of fun and you know, allgood, all good.
And then I went off on my ownfor a bit and did my thing, and
there I met Dave Fackman.
I met my current partner thelast 13 years at a conference
for the book Taking Flight.
I went off on my own and thenhe and I got together and he
(04:31):
brought me in to work for someclients of his.
And here, 13 years later, herewe are.
So how did I get here?
I don't know how the hell I gothere.
I was a musician and soundengineer who got obsessed with
self-awareness.
And then I just turned thatinto my purpose.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Dan, what ignited that profound interest in
self-awareness?
Was it a connection to you orto what you saw was happening in
other people's lives?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Good question.
I suspect that because I waslost, that I didn't really know
who I was, it fueled this sensethat you know what, to be raw
about it.
So I went through a periodwhere I was unemployed for a
(05:23):
year and it was, you know, I wasmarried with a young child and
I it was just searing, searingexperience, and a big part of it
was that I just didn't know whoI was.
So I didn't know what kind ofcareer to pursue, I didn't know
what my skills or talents were.
And you know there's a lot ofpsychology that goes into that,
(05:44):
because if you're that lost andthen you can say, well, I don't
have any skills and talents,right, and then you internalize
that, and so climbing out ofthat kind of gave me a passion
for well, first of all, anintuition for when other people
are like that.
I can smell it because I wasthere right and then I worked
(06:04):
with a lot of people to get themthrough.
So I'm kind of like anemergency room doctor.
If you're in an emergency, well, you know what a car accident
looks like because you've seenit.
So I saw that from differentangles and it just became my
thing Getting out of careercoaching into executive coaching
(06:24):
.
What was amazing about that is,instead of simply helping
people once they've already losttheir jobs, it's saying okay,
you're successful.
Don't take that for granted.
Here are some blind spots thatwill keep you successful, as
opposed to ending up unemployed,because we all know very
(06:45):
talented people who don'tunderstand other people.
They're really good atexecuting on their own, but
they're not so good atconnecting with others, and
therefore they hit a ceiling,and once they hit that ceiling,
they go sideways, and so I'mdesperate to prevent that from
happening.
Yeah, they go sideways, and soI I'm desperate to prevent that
from happening, yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Dan, when you were in your just one more question on
the loss thing did you havesomeone helping you through that
, like, were you being somementored and invited into
reflection by the guidance ofsomebody else?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
No, I wasn't.
I think that was, and that's.
You know, my dad wasn't builtthat way, so he wasn't able to
help me.
And I used to always say, gosh,if I just had a mentor.
That used to be like a thing.
And then at some point you justsay, all right, stop
complaining and become your ownmentor and become wildly curious
about what's out there and havecuriosity, weaponize your
(07:44):
curiosity to build yourself.
So where do I take that?
Like even today with AI.
When I see people burying theirheads in the sand about AI, it
triggers me.
Say, oh, no, no, no, you're notgoing to do that.
That's not healthy for you,Because if you do that, you're
going to end up being washedaway, and if you're going to
(08:04):
work with me, that's not goingto happen.
So I have a very like.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I don't know it's a strong aversion to denial.
Ooh, where does that come?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
from Well, I think it's all part of the same thing.
If you're in denial aboutwhat's actually happening around
you, you're not going todiscover what your hidden
potential actually is, andthat's not acceptable.
It's just not acceptable.
It's like you don't even havethe right to limit yourself that
way.
As far as I'm concerned, Oohdamn, weaponize your curiosity.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
Weaponize is such a bad term,curiosity is such a great term,
so unpack that.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I love it.
It's a little bit provocative.
But weaponize meaning thatyou're not kidding around.
Sure, this isn't some kind oflike oh, maybe this, maybe that?
No, no, no, no, no.
This isn't some kind of like oh, maybe this, maybe that.
No, no, no, no, no.
You're either going to hit whatyou were put on this planet to
do.
You're either going toexperience that or you're
selling yourself short, and Idon't.
That's just not acceptable.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
How do people respond when you invite them into that
weaponized curiosity?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
How do they?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
respond to you.
I'd love to hear some stories.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
It depends.
So my ability to flex to theright style at the right time is
the key to that, because if Icome across as strong as I just
did with you to a particulartype of person, it just shuts
them down, and so I try topractice what I preach.
So if I've got the profile ofthe person that I'm talking to
(09:51):
and I'm, for example, workingwith a dove owl in my world I
don't know how familiar you arewith the birds and the
terminology, are you?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
guys familiar with DISC.
We have it right in front of us.
Yeah, oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
So if I'm working with someone whose primary aim
in life is to create harmonyaround themselves, then the
harmony they want for othersthey want for themselves.
And you know, george BernardShaw, any virtue carried to an
extreme can become a crime.
So if you take harmony too far,then you actually cage yourself
because you don't get out ofyour comfort zone, right?
(10:27):
So if I'm working with someonewho has a lot of dove energy,
well then this is going to takea while.
I've got to get them to a placeof comfort where they're
willing to stretch.
If I'm working with an eagle,in the first call I'm kind of
whacking them over the head andthey love it.
(10:50):
Because for somebody withdominant style energy, don't
waste my time and don't get allwoo on me.
You've got to be practical, youhave to.
I need a line of sight, and sowhere I am and where it is, I'm
going.
And you know, for me personally, I'm kind of activated by that.
So it takes more CPU power forme to kind of dove out.
(11:13):
Yeah, but it's obviously, youknow, match the moment, not the
mirror.
That's what we say.
Yeah, you know, if you're notmatching the moment, you're
missing the moment.
That's right, so that's what Itry to do.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Can you expand on that match, the mirror match,
the moment?
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Sure, so we've got four different energies.
A behavioral profile is not apersonality profile Right, right
.
So we've got dominant influence, steady, conscientious.
So we've got eagles, parrots,doves and owls, right, and these
represent energy in the worldand every thought that you have
is, in fact, a burst ofelectricity.
It's literally energy.
(11:49):
Right, so there are eaglemoments out there.
For example, you're walkingdown the sidewalk and a little
girl is about to get run over bya car, right.
So if we're going to match themoment, are we going to go into?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
parrot mode and be wildly optimistic.
She'll survive?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
No, Are we going to dove out and say, oh, I'm really
, really concerned?
No, Are we going to owl out andstart calculating the distance
and speed between the car?
No, it's an eagle moment.
We're going to run into thestreet, we're going to push the
child out of the way, we'reprobably going to get hit by the
car, we're going to end up in ahospital, but it's an eagle
(12:34):
moment, Okay.
So massive moment means to askyourself what energy gets the
most out of this particularopportunity.
And that could be sittingacross from a person like I was
describing before, if I'mcoaching someone with a lot of
Dove Owl energy, or it could be.
Hey, we have suboptimal levelsof information here, but a
decision needs to be made.
So if we don't flex to thatmoment, then we've missed it or
(13:02):
we've made the kind of we'resuffering from, the kinds of
setbacks that are common whenyou don't plan properly.
So if we don't match the momentand slow this down and take a
deeper dive on how we got hereand where we need to do some MRI
data collection, we're going tocontinue messing this up.
(13:25):
Match the moment, but thatmeans you have to be aware.
You have to ask yourself okay,what moment am I in?
Who am I Meaning?
What's my prejudice, what isthe prejudice of the team that
I'm in and how can we harmonizethat?
So at first this is a littlebit.
You know it's a lot, but.
But it's.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
You know this isn't complicated.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Once you, once you can become unconsciously
confident at this fairly quickly.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Yeah, dan, when you were speaking and even talking
about matching the moment, Ican't help but think about how
you might have acted orinteracted as a sound engineer,
because what are some of the?
Yeah, because some of what arethe, some of the threads, like
it's like you have to turn thisup a little bit more and turn
that down a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Have you just been trained to do that?
Well, you know, I never reallygot trained to be a sound
engineer.
I was just a piano player, so Ihad to learn that from.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
But you figured it out.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So this was in the 90s, when CD-ROMs were
considered high-tech.
Remember.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
So when I look back on that period, when you're
doing narration, you have anarrator narrate the CD-ROM, and
so there are literallythousands of little snippets of
narration, which means you needa very organized file naming
convention and if you don't laythat out you're in trouble.
(14:52):
Well, I'm not an owl.
I don't have naturalorganizational skills, so I
struggled with that piece of itand now I look back on it and
laugh and go if I had known whatI then, what I know now, I
would have brought somebody inwho was really good at
systemization and it would havesaved me a lot of a lot of
heartache.
Yeah, there you go.
(15:13):
In the creative stuff I wasgood, but on the organizational
stuff, boy did I struggle.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, do you?
Do you find that?
Or how do you coach executivesto match the moment versus like
this I need to bring someoneelse in because I'm never going
to match this moment so this is,this is where is this the mean,
this is where the action isright.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
so so, you know, I love I, I, you know, I obviously
like animal metaphors, and soI'll sit down with a leadership
team, or particularly, you know,the senior executive, the CEO,
and say, ok, the lion's whisperis a roar to the jungle.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
So everything you say and don't say, do and don't do,
do and don't do is magnifiedand your job as a leader is to
surface the genius of otherpeople.
If you're not doing that, thenwhy are you a leader?
Like, go be an individualcontributor, right and in
(16:17):
today's world, go figure out howto use weaponize that word
again AI bots to do yourmarketing and do your copy.
Because if you're notinterested in surfacing the
genius of other people, then youprobably shouldn't be a leader.
I mean and I've challenged alot of people, a lot of the
executives I've worked with onthis, like you know, why are you
(16:38):
here?
And the answer for most peoplealthough they often won't say it
is because that's my careertrajectory.
I want to make more money, Iwant to be more.
So it's about me, except itcan't be about you Correct, not
in leadership.
So if I know, let's say I'm aneagle owl, so I'm a get it done
(17:00):
bottom line, practical, no drama, execute.
That's my primary and mysecondary is I like to call the
owls the guardians of integrity.
So the conscientious stylestake quality personally, like,
if it doesn't represent highquality, it's disturbing to them
(17:22):
, they go home with that, theytalk to their spouses about it.
They're like their kids, theirdogs.
They're just like it's sounnerving, okay.
So let's say you've got a lotof eagle in you and a lot of owl
in you, okay, well, that's apressure cooker of progress.
Because, the eagle in you isgoing to say yesterday, we
(17:43):
needed this yesterday.
And the owl is going to say no,no, no, no, we're not ready for
that, we don't have the properanalysis to make that decision.
And so that inner turmoil is aproductivity engine.
You're the CEO and now you walkinto your leadership meeting
(18:04):
and you're surrounded by dovesand owls.
How does your energy impactthem?
And master moment not themirror means that to the extent
you honor their styles and youlean in their direction, you
activate their potential.
But it's more complex than that, because you represent
(18:24):
qualities that they don't have.
So how do you introduce the joyof Eagle Energy to someone who
doesn't share that, so that theycan learn how to lean in your
direction?
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Hey, dan, I got a question on this when you
mentioned that phrase.
I'm paraphrasing if you're notinterested in surfacing the
genius of your people, why areyou a leader?
Here's my question have youseen any shift of that
perspective more towards thefour in the last four or five
years?
Have you seen anythinghappening in this present
(18:59):
landscape that has indicatedexecutives are more willing to
do that, or are they moreunwilling to do that?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Contradictory forces pulling in opposite directions.
On the one hand, the speed ofchange shrinks, patience and
empathy shrinks patience andempathy.
And if the pace of changerequires me to just sprint, I'm
(19:35):
not going to have thewherewithal to slow down and pay
attention to you and do therequisite discovery required to
help you figure out your ownmystery, because we're all a
mystery.
I'm too busy running reallyfast.
So that's one pull, but theother pull is all the research
that have captivated you overthe last 10 years, which is that
(19:55):
healthy cultures creatediscovery and health in our
employees and our leadershipteams, who then grow our
organizations way beyond whatany possible CEO could come up
with.
So if you don't create ahealthy environment, a healthy
culture, then you're literallyleaving all that potential on
the table, which is notacceptable.
(20:18):
Not even on the table.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
It's not even on the table.
It's under a rock somewhere.
Yeah, yeah, not even on thetable.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
It's not even on the table, it's under.
It's under a rock somewhere.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, so that'sparadox.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Now he's rubbing his hands.
Here we go.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Well, dan, that's just something, this whole idea.
I appreciate thestraightforward nature of the
way you're saying things.
I love the direct approachbecause it is getting people's
attention.
It obviously creates a surprise, which is an opening of
someone's willingness to evenlisten, because you're catching
(20:53):
them kind of a little bit offguard.
Leaders investing in theirpeople.
Like you said, our experiencewould indicate that people don't
have the time for it or they'reunwilling to take the time for
it.
If they do, tremendous thingshappen, and Linda often says
this.
We tend to find people that arewilling to take the time
(21:15):
because they understand theconsequence of not and what that
does to people, understand theconsequence of not and what that
does to people.
My mind, like as you're talkingto him, my mind, is just
spinning from some of theconversations that I find myself
in a people that are wrestlingwith just slowing down period,
like they don't have thatpractice of slowing down
themselves.
So how do they have thecapacity to slow down for others
(21:40):
?
Speaker 4 (21:41):
There isn't a question there.
Is there a?
Speaker 3 (21:44):
question there.
No, you're not.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Now you've triggered me in a good way.
Okay, go for it.
Go for it, dan, go go go, we'lltrigger each other.
Do we have the humility torecognize what a mystery each of
us is?
Does anybody?
Do we really know what we'reactually capable of?
I don't think so, and it'sarrogance Nothing short of
arrogance or fear to pretendthat we do Like.
(22:10):
The two of you are doing thingstoday that you probably weren't
doing 10 years ago, correct?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Or last week?
Yes, correct.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Okay.
So does that make you phonycompared to where you were 10
years ago?
Do we just arbitrarily choose apoint in our life?
Maybe when God forbid when wewere six years old, when we were
taught something that wasn'ttrue about us, or when we were
19 years old and like at whatpoint do we decide who I am?
When you look at a tree, it's atree, ever not perfect, Like
(22:40):
what?
Like at what stage?
Right, so we're a mystery.
And if you're a mystery toyourself when you look in the
mirror, then how in the world doyou feel entitled to decide
what someone else's potential is?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Okay, dan, now okay, ready.
Just side note careerassessment and psychometric user
.
So I'm a practitioner and youare using the DISC.
So back to the self-discoveryWith the labels that assessments
(23:20):
give people.
Sometimes that label is such alimiter and it almost serves as
a counter influence to what thetool's trying to do and people
easily want.
Well, I think the brain likeslabels.
How do you wrestle with that?
And I know that the metaphorsof your animals helps people
(23:40):
unwrap that.
But I think people myexperience people can cling to
the definitional framework of atool and miss the beauty and the
mystery of the individual.
Similar experience with you.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yes, can you say a?
Speaker 3 (23:58):
little more about that.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
So it's a real.
Real, it is a conundrum,because, on the one hand, these
profiles do illuminate yeah, yesright and, on the other hand,
depending on what your makeup isemotionally, psychologically,
you will gravitate to somethings more than others, which
then puts you back in a cage.
That the whole point of atleast this.
(24:23):
So the reason I like DISC isbecause it's simple, it's
practical and it doesn't.
It's not a selection tool.
Like I don't understandorganizations that use DISC to
hire people.
That is not what it's validatedfor.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Okay.
So it's just not Now.
Once you hire somebody, if youwant to match the moment, you
want to honor where they'recoming from, they should take it
Right and then you can rightHelp them, help them stretch and
help them grow.
So but your question is are wejust putting somebody in another
box?
Right A box that feels good Abox that feels good A box For a
(25:04):
moment Could Right, and myanswer to that is that's up to
them.
I like it.
They have to own that.
And when I do bird sessions orwhen I do keynotes on this where
you just went, I love goingthere.
You say how are you Look?
Hand a scalpel to a child.
Think of it.
They might hurt themselves.
Hand a scalpel to a surgeon andthey'll save your life.
(25:26):
It's just a tool.
But the question is are yougoing to master it?
Speaker 3 (25:33):
It's not the tool.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
The tool has its functionality, but you have to
own how it is.
You're going to apply it,because otherwise you're asking
me to do it for you and it's notmy life.
So, from a leadershipperspective, how much clarity do
you have in the mirror?
When you look in the mirror, doyou see what other people
(25:57):
actually experience on aday-to-day basis?
Most people have somedistortion in the mirror.
It's normal.
But to the extent that youstrive for clarity, you
understand why people respond toyou the way they do, especially
if you have curiosity aboutwhat makes them tick.
And if you're a seniorexecutive, then the cascading
(26:21):
impact of your ownself-awareness, combined with
your curiosity of other people,has enormous impact, because
you're the lion Right andthey're the jungle.
So this is why working withsenior leadership can be so
gratifying, because we're notjust helping an individual, but
(26:44):
the cascading impact of thatreverberates throughout the
organization.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
That was good, dan.
One of the questions that Iwant to ask you, because we're
both in our businesses.
We're one of those.
How is it that you've seen theemergence of AI impact, or how
(27:21):
does your model apply to howpeople are interacting,
interfacing with AI?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
So the way I look at AI and its emergence is it's not
about AI, it's about you.
What is your relationship withrapid change and ambiguity?
How do you process rapid change?
How do you feel when faced withdeeply ambiguous choices?
Because that relationship willdetermine your utilization of AI
(27:54):
and your sense of what thepossibilities are, both for
yourself and for yourorganization.
Your personal, emotional,psychological response to this
is predicated on rapid changeand ambiguity.
So if you're the type of personthat loves to dive in and
experiment generally speaking,it's just what makes you tick
(28:15):
right Then you're looking at AIand experiment.
Generally speaking, it's justwhat makes you tick right.
Then you're looking at AI andgoing, wow, I see a lot of
possibilities here, right, butthe folks that surround you
might be a lot more cautious andskeptical.
And, by the way, I considerskepticism to be an integrity
tool.
Skepticism is a search fortruth.
So let's say you're not high onskepticism, you're high on
(28:39):
possibilities, but you'regrounded by the people that work
with you and for you that havemuch higher doses of skepticism.
The way in which you try toweave AI into your culture needs
to honor that.
So, yes, the owls and doves aregoing to be a lot more
skeptical about AI than theeagles and parrots are right
(29:03):
With that as a framework.
Then you look at yourorganization and say, okay, what
are the most practicalapplications of AI in baby steps
that won't freak out ouremployees that they're about to
lose their jobs?
That won't freak out ouremployees that they're about to
lose their jobs?
And how can we position AI as aforce multiplier of an
individual's growth, as opposedto simply just saying, hey, this
(29:28):
is what's efficient?
Because the moment you go downthe efficiency road with your
employees, you're basicallytelegraphing that they have a
short time span in yourorganization, because the moment
AI is more efficient than theyare, they're gone, when the
exact opposite should be thecase.
You should be challenging themand inspiring them to explore
how AI can expand and broadentheir capabilities, because
(29:53):
that's what will propel yourorganization forward.
Because that's what will propelyour organization forward.
So the way in which youperceive and then message this
is a lot more powerful, at theend of the day, than the actual
AI itself.
So once again, it comes back toownership.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Did you have a client experience that almost
force-fed you this situation?
Force-fed, I'm sorry, force-fedyou this situation Force-fed.
Like where you had a clientsituation where they were really
wrestling with AI and youneeded to jump into the deep end
of the conversation, or did you, on your own, see the clouds
(30:32):
and the horizon coming in andsaid I need to prepare for this.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
So I'm a more possibilities oriented person,
so I just naturally gravitate toto these things and so and I
bring a somewhat of anoptimistic perspective on it.
But I'm also schizophrenicbecause I'm not happy about
where this is headed.
I mean, I don't think anyonewho's really looked at this can
feel tremendous optimism for thelong term without going down a
(31:01):
doomer track.
But back to the career coachingme.
You have this life and it'shappening today, and you've got
another 5, 10, 15 years of acareer in front of you.
So if you put your head in thesand on this, okay, a wave will
wash you away, and that is notacceptable.
(31:23):
It's just not acceptable.
So, regardless of the macropicture of where this is headed
which I'm actually morepessimistic about and very
deeply concerned you still havea life to live, you still have
bills to pay, you're, you knowyou have a right, and so you've
got to work with this.
(31:43):
You've got to work with this,okay.
So let me give you an example.
So I have a client who she runsa large logistics operation for
an entire country, so it's herP&L, and she's got all kinds of
conundrums that she's dealingwith and she's putting a lot of
(32:04):
pressure on herself to be theidea generator for her
organization and she's flailingbecause it's too large.
She's relatively new in thisrole.
She's only been in it a littlebit less than a year, so for up
until now she's been just tryingto figure out, okay, what is
the terrain that I am journeyingthrough?
Okay, but now she has to kindof pop up and say, okay, how can
(32:29):
we shift the terrain so that wecan get where we need to get to
?
And so I sat her down and saidall right, how much are you
using AI?
And she said, oh, I use itevery day.
I said, okay, describe that forme.
What does that mean?
She said, oh, well, when Iwrite an email, I'll pop it in.
And I said, okay, you dorealize that hundreds of
billions of dollars is beinginvested in back-end
(32:50):
infrastructure around AI.
And she said, absolutely, myorganization is doing it as well
.
Okay, do you think that'shappening so that you can write
a better email.
Do you think that that's why?
And she's like well, I guessnot.
So then I opened up one of theI don't want to show for any of
the tools, but I opened up oneof the tools.
(33:11):
I said, all right, give it tome, give me your biggest
conundrum right now.
And so she starts talking to meand I start writing this,
copying this down, and then Ithrew it into a different tool
and said okay, create a promptout of this.
And it took that and made apretty interesting prompt.
Then I went back to the firsttool and I put it in deep
research and seven minutes laterit popped out a 30-page
(33:37):
analysis on her prompt.
And as she and I worked throughit, because you could just see
her face just like what?
Wow.
So that was a couple months ago.
Now, all of the seniordirectors that report to her are
using AI for ideation, forstrategy, and it's not that AI
(34:03):
is making decisions for them,but they are learning how to
expand their own minds as towhat is possible by using this
tool.
It's still theirs to own, butnow they have tools that they
didn't have 10 minutes ago.
It's not for me to teachsomebody how to use a tool, but
(34:24):
to the extent that I can helpthem open their eyes to what's
possible, then they'll figure itout.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
It sounds to me like you're using AI to then further
reinforce.
You know your call that we needto pay attention to the
uniqueness of who we are and howwe show up, even in the use of
tools.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yes, because at the end of the day, you have to own
your life.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
And what are the tools that are you going to
utilize to help you do that?
So it is a bit of a paradox.
On the one hand it's about youowning it, but a big part of
owning it is honoring otherpeople, Because through other
people you discover yourself,Because their interactions with
(35:10):
you are what unlock potentialsthat you didn't know were even
there.
Again, we're a mystery.
We don't know what we'recapable of, and we're social
animals.
If we don't interact withpeople around us, we'll never
find out.
So you know.
Then you throw in ego and thewhole thing gets messed up.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
And we'll have jobs forever right.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
How do you keep that in check, though?
Or how do you coach others tokeep that in check, because
there's a part of all of thisthat is so humbling.
Whatever your style is, orwhatever your level of ego, you
do have to keep that in check.
So how do you work with peopleto do that?
What's the secret ingredientthere?
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Well, here I don't like to go too deep with clients
because I don't want to gobeyond Sure.
So I will go back to the versewith this and say okay, what
does each style fear the most?
Because if you understand whatyou fear, then you understand
what you're protecting.
That's right.
So eagles for example, someonewith a lot of eagle energy what
(36:15):
they fear although they they'llnever admit it is not losing,
but being a loser.
Oh, they fear this intensely.
And who decides whethersomeone's a loser or not?
Well, they do.
It's itself, it's from them,okay.
So this is why eagles areconstantly driving right.
(36:37):
So an eagle may look at ai andsay I don't have time for this,
because I used ChatGPT a coupletimes.
It didn't give me anything thatI needed and I'm falling behind
.
That's not acceptable.
So they'll just race ahead andmiss what the opportunities are
if you take a deeper dive, right?
So what do parrots fear themost?
Disapproval?
What do parrots fear the mostDisapproval?
(37:01):
What if I use AI and ithallucinates?
And I didn't have the detailorientation to figure that out,
but my colleague did.
She actually read the fineprint and then she pointed out
to me that I handed somethingover.
That was just well, I don'twant to do that.
So parents will get superexcited about what's possible,
(37:23):
but when it comes to actuallyusing it they will be reticent
because they fear the blowback,right?
So what do doves fear the most?
Damaging a relationship,because doves are all about
keeping commitments.
Because doves are all aboutkeeping commitments.
So AI creates all kinds ofpotential conflict because no
(37:45):
one really knows what it means.
Yet what are we doing?
Where are we going?
How is this going to work?
That's a lot of tension, and sodoves like to create harmony in
all environments, harmony inall relationships, and so the
whole concept of AI is just abig.
It's a conundrum.
(38:06):
Don't know how to approach it.
And our owls?
Well, they're the guardians ofintegrity For them.
If AI hallucinates once, thatmeans it's not trustworthy,
because AIs tend to suffer fromboth perfectionism and they
catastrophize.
So if it's not perfect, it's adisaster.
(38:28):
By the way, a little bit, if youdon't mind, I'm going to go a
little deeper on the owlsconscientious owls so their
fundamental focus is accuracy inall things and validity,
quality.
So what's kind of funny aboutthem is that if you have a lot
of owl energy and you're workingon something, the chances are
pretty good you have moreinformation than anyone else in
(38:48):
the room, because that's youroxygen, and yet people with a
lot of owl energy tend to be theleast confident in making
decisions.
Now, that doesn't make sense.
You would think the person withthe most information would have
the confidence to make adecision, but no.
So why is that?
Because owls don't definethemselves by what they know.
(39:08):
They define themselves by whatthey don't know, and there's
always a universe of informationout there that owls don't have,
which means they're constantlybehind the eight ball.
So owls look at AI and say, ait hallucinates and B it's
giving me a lot more data than Ican even process.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
So now I'm even more confused than I was before, and
so it freezes them.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
So if people can take a step back and have a sense of
humor about themselves andliterally laugh at the absurdity
of this whole situation, thenwe can get past that.
And now the owl can learn toflex the parrot and be a little
more optimistic, or flex theeagle and make decisions on
suboptimal levels of data, orthe doves will stop fearing
conflict and the eagles can slowdown and lean in the dove's
direction.
By the way, what a dove wouldcall a full-blown conflict, an
(39:59):
eagle would call a conversation.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Correct.
Right so if you can harmonizethese energies, then we honor
everybody and we figure it out.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
I just want to be aware of time here.
Brian.
Linda, do you have anything youwant to ask?
Dan, do you have anything youreally want to say?
I do have a a final questionI'd like to ask, but I'm
thinking of a summary to bringthis because, this a dan.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
No, no, no, no, the way you went about the ai our
listeners are gonna love it isis in my amplifying the need for
people to understand howthey're approaching change and
uncertainty around them, and AIcan often be this master monster
label that exemplifies a bunchof fear.
(40:52):
So I love how you did that,because it's still anchored in
the person's identity and that'swhere I'm thinking like the
conclusion of this is.
You know, addressing the fears,whatever they're called, it
still is how we are facing theuncertainty and the change
that's around us.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah.
So for me what that means isthat Parrots it's okay to be
disapproved of.
I want you to lean a little biteagle on that, because just
because someone disapproves oris upset with you doesn't mean
that you have lost value.
That's an illusion happening inyour head.
So you don't need to tiptoearound that and eagles.
(41:34):
You know you're not a loser, soknock it off.
So you don't need to tiptoearound that and eagles.
You know you're not a loser, soknock it off.
Okay, slow down, listen toother people, connect.
You're not the smartest personin the room and you already know
that.
So why are you moving so fast?
Right.
And for doves hey, candorstrengthens relationships and
(42:00):
being a professional also meansdisappointing other people's
part of the package.
You know that.
So have a sense of humor, havea conversation with yourself to
give yourself permission to saythe word no out loud.
Right.
For owls hey, you knowperfectionism will lead you down
the road to isolation, becauseyou're really being a
totalitarian dictator overyourself.
(42:22):
You're being way too harsh onyou and that spills out to other
people.
So instead of pursuingperfection, you need to pursue
excellence.
Excellence inspires people.
Excellence inspires people,right?
So if we can just take a stepback, laugh at ourselves in a
(42:42):
really healthy way, see thevalue in what other people bring
to the table and lean, lean intheir direction.
It's not about reinventingyourself, but it is about
leaning.
Now you're diversifying yourportfolio of behaviors.
We all know diversification iskey in your finances, so why
(43:03):
wouldn't it be key in yourbehavior, right?
So you've got people around youthat have behaviors that you
could use a little more of.
That's some humility.
Lead in that direction.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
And that's the part of your message, Dan, that I
find that we're resonating withis, you know, this call to
paying attention to who we areand the acceptance of other
people, their approach and howwe can, you know, in a sense,
help each other and helpourselves at the same time,
because both are true and bothare necessary.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
And I think it's a healing message.
I think you are's a healingmessage.
I think you are offering ahealing message to people and
some handles to get out of theirhard times, as well as help
each other.
So I've appreciated learningfrom you, dan.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Is there anything else, dan, that you want to like
?
Is there something that you'rethinking that we might have
missed, or something that yousay like you might want to
highlight in the conversationthat Nathan can post-produce in
somewhere?
Speaker 1 (44:06):
So I think for me it's not enough to be
interesting.
One has to be useful.
And to be useful to yourselfmeans just stop beating yourself
up all the time.
Celebrate what you bring to thetable, but that only really
works if you stop convictingother people of crimes they
(44:26):
never actually committed.
They just see the world andbehave in the world differently
than you do.
Find the wisdom in what they do.
Take some of that in foryourself so that you can lean in
their direction and honor wherethey're coming from.
When you have a team doing that, the collective mystery reveals
(44:48):
itself, because that's wherethe potential has always been
buried, and that's what we'retrying to do.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
I love that Holy crap .
Speaker 4 (44:59):
That's good, so good.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Dan, thank you so much.
This has been amazing.
I feel like you've given ustools to do some birdwatching,
to pay attention to the soundsand the flights and whatever of
those around us so that we canbetter know how to interact with
them.
And, you know, use the varioustools at our disposal to
(45:21):
ultimately build more positiveteam culture.
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Oh, thank you, Really enjoyed.
Thank you for having me.
It's been an honor and, wow,great, great conversation.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Dan thanks for your voice.
I hear such a prophetic,present voice like you're
speaking truth to the reality ofthe present moment.
That's what's ringing true tome.
And you're doing so like, asthe prophetic voice speaks the
truth.
The prophet speaks in a waythat is quickly accessible and
easily digestible, and you havethat in the present tense,
(45:56):
meaning you're not casting downthe road, you're not anchored in
history.
You're speaking from thiscurrent intersection that
society is standing in.
That I can see why you getpeople's attention by what
you're saying, because you'renot just talking in platitudes.
There's a depth not only towhat you're saying but how
(46:18):
you're constructing thosestatements.
That gets people's attentionand that I think is brilliant,
and I'm sure you know that.
I just want to reinforce thatyour message is something that's
needed.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
I wish I could record that play for my wife and just
say, hey this guy thinks it isbeing recorded.
Speaker 4 (46:34):
I'll send this.
It is recorded.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Send it to her Give me your email.
I'll just send it directly toher, thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Thank you for that I you know.
I thank you.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
For real, dan, because people have the courage
to think it, not the courage tospeak it.
So they'll think it tothemselves when they're by
themselves, and I wish I wouldhave said that to somebody.
So people need spokespeoplelike you to help them remove or
emerge from an echo chamber ofhearing them their own selves,
because we know in our worksometimes all we need to do is
(47:07):
say something to releasesomeone's voices, to repeat it
in their own voice, and it'sthen new to their context.
So I think stylistically youhave a way of serving as, like
an intellectual can opener tosome people.
They're able to then expressthemselves, yeah that's good.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Another big shout out , and thank you to Dan Silvert
for taking the time to chat.
I really appreciated thediscussion about the different
bird types and I shared with himoff camera about how my
brother-in-law is a birder andhe has this app on his phone
that helps him identifydifferent birds based on their
sounds and we kind of jokedabout wouldn't it be great if
(47:48):
there was something like thatfor people, so that you could
understand a little bit moreabout someone, almost like this
cheat sheet or a cheat code tosay, oh, you're more inclined to
act this way or have this typeof energy?
And one of the things that wediscussed in the episode Brian
brought it up was that thesetraits or these characteristics
or these types aren't meant tobox people in, but rather to
(48:11):
hopefully give them just anotherway to understand part of their
personality, about the way thatthey lead, about the type of
energy that they have in theworld.
And I think the you know thereal takeaway for me about this
episode is that the more that wecan understand ourselves, the
more that we can understand eachother, the better we will be in
whatever context or communityor environment that we're in.
(48:34):
So I challenge you, as you aremaybe wrestling or thinking with
some of the things that wetalked about, just to consider
that you know, what type ofenergy do you have?
Are you giving off?
Are you absorbing?
What does the moment perhapsneed more of, and how can you
rise to that occasion or findother people who do?
Thank you so much for listeningto the Leadership Vision Podcast
, our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
(48:56):
To learn more about us and whatwe do, or to learn more about
Dan, you can click the link inthe show notes or go to
leadershipvisionconsultingcom.
Or, if you want to learn moreabout Dan, it's
velocityadvisorygroupcom.
And we would appreciate it ifyou would reach out and give us
some feedback about this episode, about any of our other
resources.
What could we do to improveyour lives as team leaders, as
(49:21):
people on teams, as peopleleading organizations?
How can we help you build morepositive team culture?
My name's Nathan Freeberg and,on behalf of our entire team,
thanks for listening.
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