February 24, 2025 • 36 mins
What does it really mean to live and lead with integrity? In this episode of The Leadership Vision Podcast, we sit down with Jeff Klubeck, speaker, coach, and author of The Integrity Game. Jeff shares his journey from humble beginnings to building a career in coaching, training, and leadership development. He breaks down his 10-point model for integrity, explains how accountability plays a crucial role in leadership and offers actionable insights on aligning values with behavior.
Whether you're a leader, a team member, or simply striving for personal growth, this conversation will challenge you to reflect on who you are, what you stand for, and how you show up in the world.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
✅ Why integrity is more than just "doing what you say"—it’s about why you say it
✅ The link between integrity, accountability, and leadership
✅ How to create a safe space for accountability in your team and organization
✅ A real-world example of how integrity transformed a law firm
✅ How to keep growing in integrity—without beating yourself up over setbacks
Resources & Links:
📖 Learn more about Jeff and The Integrity Game
🌎 Connect with Leadership Vision: leadershipvisionconsulting.com
-
Read the full blog post here!
CONTACT US
- email: connect@leadershipvisionconsulting.com
- Leadership Vision Online
ABOUT
The Leadership Vision Podcast is a weekly show sharing our expertise in discovering, practicing, and implementing a Strengths-based approach to people, teams, and culture. Contact us to talk to us about helping your team understand the power of Strengths.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But let's just say we all do a thousand things a day.
All I'm trying to do isincrease the number of those
that are integrated with eachother and our answers right.
So to be silly about it,because I'm using Trojan horse
all the time, right, you guyshave heard it said if we are not
learning or if we are notgrowing, we're dying.
(00:22):
So I'm here to say if we're notintegrating, we might be
disintegrating.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about us, you canvisit us on the web at
leadershipvisionconsultingcom orclick the link in the show
notes.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Freeberg and today on the
podcast, we have a fascinatingconversation with Jeff Klubeck,
(00:54):
a speaker, coach and the authorof the Integrity Game.
Jeff helps individuals andteams strengthen their
accountability, leadership andpersonal growth by aligning
actions with values.
He also has a weekly livestream where he talks about all
things business, leadership andmore.
That, I think, is really great,and you can find all of that at
(01:14):
theintegritygamecom or againfrom the link in the show notes.
Our conversation here todayexplores what integrity really
means, how to create a cultureof accountability and why
self-reflection is key tosuccess.
Now, Jeff is a lot of thingsand this was a really fun
conversation, but he describeshimself as energetic, fast-paced
(01:35):
, humor-laced and a littlein-your-face.
So let's get started.
I gotta be honest, I'm a littlebit not sure where we start
because initially, when yourpeople reached out, I was like,
oh yeah, integrity game.
We can talk about integrity somuch.
It's one of those buzzwords thatpeople don't entirely know what
to talk about.
(01:55):
But then I was like, well, Idon't, maybe we just talk about
baseball, because I'm a bigbaseball guy.
And then the more I kind of gotinto your work of you know,
Linda and I both worked at acollege for many years and then,
you know, taught some classes,all that stuff.
I think what I would like to dois to start this is just tell
us who you are, maybe in kind ofa Cliff Notes version.
(02:18):
Who are you and how did you getto where you are today?
Being someone that is teachingpeople about business, about
leadership, about you know allthings, integrity and kloobie
snacks and wherever that fits in, and just kind of you know you
I saw you have a video on yourelevator pitch, so just give us
your elevator pitch about whojeff is.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Well, to, that's from going up or which building.
You know, like it's, it's true,right, it differs, that's a
good, and either you're touchingupon, like the balance that I
have in my professional lifethese days, totally.
Who am I and how do I describe?
How do I avoid the curse ofknowledge, which is being so
familiar with what I do that Iforgot what it's like not to
know?
And so how do I make sure Iencode it in a way that lands to
(02:59):
the audience instead of justthe audience, instead of the
audience?
That's a fun challenge that I'mwrestling with all the time.
Who's Jeff?
I'm my wife's husband.
I'm Marianne's husband I wake upman, how did I get here?
I wake up every day and Ifigure out how I'm going to
deserve my wife and kids.
So that's it.
I start there and next thing Iknow I'm out of bed helping
people.
And I got a lot of help when Iwas growing up.
My parents, they loved eachother but they didn't go to
(03:20):
college, they didn't havesuccess in your career or
business, they struggled.
They, you know they loved eachother.
Yeah, I'm kind of a self-madeguy.
I got some help when I got tocollege.
You know, I had to deliverpizzas and I had two jobs and I
would go home every otherweekend and I, you know, I'm
self-made.
You know I used to survive onsix pieces of bread.
You know, mustard sandwich ofthe morning and the afternoon
(03:41):
and the evening sandwich of themorning and the afternoon and
the evening.
Right, but I say that, you know,with with humor and great
gratitude because, like,whatever mom and dad did, they,
they had me fighting, they hadme on the continuum of mental
disease and more on the neuroticside than the character
disorders that you know I'dmaybe take too much
responsibility for things.
That not enough, right?
Well, you know, I went tocollege and I was the first
person to go to college and Iwas on my own for the first time
(04:03):
and you know I didn't have.
I had to work.
I didn't make it happen.
Mom and dad, we don't have anymoney for you.
So I did like I thought I wasgoing to drop out and the
mentors on campus sent me moneyto stay in school.
And I'm built on gratitude.
Who am I?
I'm this grateful dude.
That's cool.
I love that.
I'm like really like I cry, Iget emotional, I get overcome
(04:24):
with gratitude, like how did Iget here?
Pinch me, right?
So how did Marianne say yes?
How are my kids so amazing?
So I got a lot to be gratefulfor and I got a lot of that.
You know, epicenter, san DiegoState University that's where I
grew up, where I learned how tobe a student, I learned how to
figure it out, I got thementoring I needed, and so to be
(04:44):
back at San Diego State at thisstage of my life is like full
circle stuff.
It's amazing.
I started your bachelor's,master's, I started teaching
while I was getting my master'sdegree.
Lo and behold, I was good at it.
You're teaching public speakingalso right.
So it's like they don't want tobe there.
They have to be there.
It's general ed right, they're,they're terrified and they're
(05:10):
you know.
So you're not just teaching aclass, but you're like
connecting with people andhelping them ease their fears
and teaching them how to finishwhat they start and showing them
that you believe in them.
And it's, it's, it's way hyper.
Now that I've got all of mypersonal profession growth chops
under my belt, went back in theclassroom as a mature father of
three.
Then, when I was a grad student, stressed out trying to make my
thesis Totally differentexperience right, but I taught
all the way through.
(05:30):
I was referred to in thecommunity college district and
so, while I was building mycareer as a headhunter and an
internal recruiter, and then Idon't know what I want to do
because we started to build afamily Mary Ann, you go work,
I'll figure it out.
I got a real estate license.
I formed a C Corp, I made theclip art business card with the
dude holding a light bulb needsome ideas, and I just put on a
(05:55):
real estate costume and startedtalking it up and figuring out
how to make it happen.
I thought I'd be a consultant,right.
And so I met a title rep at areal estate event.
He's like oh, you're a coach.
And I postured Wow, the cardsays consultants.
I'd be like $0 and 0 cents as aconsultant Right.
So that's why I have a lot ofadmiration for what you guys do
at leadership, vision consulting, like the whole management
consulting for corporates,larger organizations.
(06:16):
But I went into it like what'sa coach.
What do you mean?
What's coaching?
Tell me about that.
Oh, you know motivation andgoal setting and tell me more.
And I thought, hey, if Ilearned this coaching piece and,
by the way, I was in realestate circles nobody's hiring
consultants, but they're hiringcoaches, right?
Top performers, top producers,sales professionals all the
hands in the real estate cookiejar mortgage.
You know, real estate, homefinance, estate planning,
(06:41):
financial advisors you know theyall got their hands on the real
estate transaction cookie jarright.
So I learned how to coach andto cut my teeth and then I was
better in the classroom becauseof it and I was better coached
because of the classroom.
And then I realized coaching wasa little bit limiting.
So you got to expand toconsulting and training and I
teach public speaking so I'm apretty good speaker for hire.
I could train other speakersand dabbled in seminar industry
(07:06):
a little bit.
I was like the coach that wouldget assigned to these
entrepreneurs that wereinvesting in you know speak on
stage for 15 minutes and I'd goout and get them ready and I
facilitate at business retreatand personal growth and business
development, wealth buildingthrough small business ownership
, real estate.
Covid hit started writing booksto support what I'm doing Now,
(07:26):
like when I introduce my stuff.
I play around and say I'm asoft skills guy, soft skills for
strong leaders, soft skills forstrong teams, soft skills for
strong organizations.
But I'm an empath, I'menergetic, I'm fast-paced,
humor-laced, little in your face.
I like that I like it, yeah, andso for me, it's like when I
(07:47):
learned accountability.
What is accountability?
What's the willingness to becounted?
How do you deliveraccountability in a way that
keeps people engaged?
How do you confront people thatare adults like?
How do we shape the path?
Grease the skids, ease theprocess, make it fun and easy to
look within?
How do we promoteself-responsibility?
All things I want in my ownlife, yeah, you follow.
I really really put theaccountability training.
(08:08):
So I consider myselfworld-class in terms of
accountability, coaching anddelivering non-threatening
accountability framework and soforth.
And the integrity game is a10-point model that allows you
to deliver services coaching,consulting, training but it's
really based, it's been born, inthe land of accountability.
Okay, here's 10 points treatthese as questions, answer these
questions, share your answerswith me and that's what you're
(08:29):
accountable for your answers.
So that's cool.
That's a lot in terms of whoare you, but I thought I'd show
you the art is your?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
is your, are you luke to terry, like from from the
characters from your book, like,yeah, is that a little based on
your life, of the kind of-.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I don't have a long-winded answer to that one
yes, okay, you know the idea ofthe parable, right?
Yeah, totally it's like, hey,let's put a mentor, let's put a
mentee.
But also from a businessperspective, I'm introducing the
integrity game to themarketplace Like it used to be
get a clue, my business, get aclue Inc.
My business, getaclue Inc.
Yeah, it's limiting, right,that's just me.
Nobody wants to be a GetACluecoach.
(09:05):
But if they want to be anintegrity and certified coach,
maybe I can build a firm, maybeI can build a stable of
independently contracted subjectmaker experts that we can help
each other go after biggerprojects rather than either of
us alone.
I have a lot of admiration forthat, but not only me, as Terry
(09:27):
baseball player is based on myson, so tj aj okay, the cotton
candy, cotton candy fails, girlright yeah she's ali, ali, ali,
ali.
My daughter is addy.
Yeah, and at the end of the thebook, when they get to the
charity event and they'reraising money for challenged
athletes, you, you know Dr.
What's his name?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Dr Nate, but his nickname's.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Bubba, after our youngest, brody, okay.
And then Luke the hot dogvendor the wayward hot dog
vendor who Terry takes on thejourney to introduce the 10
points on the model.
I think we can all identifywith Luke Totally.
You know, there's a little bitof Luke in all of us, right?
(10:11):
Yeah, so here I am.
I'm paying homage to my kids.
I started working on the bookafter my parents passed away
three weeks apart, duringpre-vax COVID September of 2020.
But a month prior is when Igave the Integrity Game keynote.
I was referred to the SpecialKey Advertising Association of
California.
I just threw the Integrity Gameon there in the list of topics
just to make the list looksexier.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
And.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I said what's this integrity game thing?
I'm like, oh, now I got tocreate a keynote around it and
that's when all of my ideasabout integrity, or be your word
, or what is integrity Wait,hang on, do what you say you're
going to do, that's enough.
Why did you say you're going todo it?
So I'm playing with thetransformational versus
transactional integrity.
Transactional integrity do whatyou say you're going to do.
(10:47):
But transformational is whyjust say you're going to do it?
What's your purpose, what areyour gifts, what's your
potential?
So are we willing to be countedon all of these things?
Right and so, anyway, it cametogether and shortly I delivered
the keynote, virtually.
I recorded it in the hotel roomdown the street from a dying
parent's house.
It was, it was a, it was, itwas an interesting time.
So I just thought, wow, this,the keynote goes.
(11:08):
Cool.
I got this 10 point model.
Now, if I put an intro and aconclusion, it's a book.
Oh, how about I write a parablebook which mentor will take the
mentee through?
That introduces the 10 pointsthat now I can infuse it with
characters.
You know, infuse the characters, yep.
So now it's like became a, areal passion project and a
therapeutic project and a legacyplay that also introduces my
(11:30):
10-point model that I'm tryingto build my brand around now.
Like everything'smulti-determined right, there's
never more reasons you have fordoing something, the more likely
you are to follow through.
So I had a lot of reasons to dothe integrity game, some of
which I haven't even figured outyet as I watch it incubate and
grow.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
So first of, all sorry about your folks and you
as well.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
You took something and made it a gift and a legacy
to others.
Yeah, it resonated with yourshare earlier, so Jeff when
you're talking aboutaccountability.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
I was hearing like a personal thread that was running
through that, like from yourown story.
Do you have that same personalthread of integrity where
integrity was a theme for you asyou were coming up, or was
integrity a part of what youwere learning through being
accountable?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yes and yes and yes.
It's a multi-determined.
Yes and yes and yes.
It's multi-determined.
It's easy to be baffled withover pre-accountability days.
Golly.
I wish I had some mentoring.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I wish I had some guidance.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I wish my parents had knocked some sense into me or
actually punished me for some ofmy transgressions.
I could talk my way in and outof anything.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Yeah, okay, right, okay yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
And I got away with a lot.
And, looking back, I did a lot.
You know I got caught a lot too, but I did a lot of
embarrassing stuff and Imentoring I didn't.
Okay, you follow them.
We judge ourselves by it.
We judge ourselves by intents,you know, and the rest of the
world's judging our behavior,yeah, right, right.
So when I finally got matureenough to look within and and
(13:14):
question my own behavior andthought like, hey, who am I
being?
Right now that I'm, you know,like it's starting to look
within and starting to takeresponsibility for any challenge
I was having, starting to takeyou like, what's my role in this
?
What's going on here?
Who am I being?
What am I?
Well, it was eye open to getinto personal profession with
myself jeff the word integrity.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
It's one of those words where um, I think it's a
reactive word like people have areaction to the word and so,
like you know, there are somewords that we use in consulting
which we know is an emotionaldraw it's drawing people in.
And what I also find is thatthere are some words that we use
in consulting which we know isan emotional draw, it's drawing
people in.
And what I also find is thatthere's words that you might not
say initially because it's areaction that people will get.
(13:53):
When you bring up integrity ina corporate environment, do you
find that you then have to spendsome time creating a safe space
for people to talk about theneed and what's that like for
you then?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
How's that sound?
It's, it's, it's layered.
First of all, thank you, causeI'm going to get into character
now.
I'm like, thank you into myimaginary keynote, mike, you'll
be in the audience with me,right, and I'll show you.
But it's layered Right Because,yeah, integrity.
There is an emotional reactionto it because, well, there's two
sides to that coin, and I'mgoing to show you what I mean by
that in a second.
Let's pin that on the board.
But secondly, integrity game iscreating the safe space for
(14:30):
this other thing calledaccountability.
Right, do you follow?
So the thing that people reallyhad a problem with is
accountability.
So imagine if I said like nowlet's get into the keynote,
right.
It goes a little something likethis Now let's get into the
keynote, right.
It goes a little something likethis All right, here we go,
ready to play the integrity game.
How many of you believe youhave integrity?
All the hands go up.
There's an emotional reaction.
(14:51):
I want to associate myself withintegrity.
That's one side of thisemotional reaction.
Okay, now back to safe space.
Humor is a Trojan horse,fast-paced humor, laced in your
face, a little in your face, allright, hang on.
Oh, left hand, I'm sorry forthose of you that raised your
left, switch to your right andkeep your hands up and repeat
after me.
I, I do do solemnly swear,swear, not to shoot the
(15:13):
messenger in 35 minutes when thekeynote's over.
I get the laugh right.
Hang on, I want to be invitedback.
So I'm not trying to offend youguys and say that you don't
have any integrity.
So let's make sure we'retalking about the same thing.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Now, that's where I pause the key and I start to get
illicit audience response.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
To get the audience, I get an anchor on the left side
of the room.
I get an anchor on the rightside of the room.
I get them to declare and now,brian, here's what I think
you're going to like about this.
Right, it's the other side ofthe emotional reaction.
Hang on.
When I asked them what it is,they've immediately it's amazing
(15:56):
.
They've immediately gone fromoh, I have it, I have it, I have
it, it's great, it's wonderful.
And I said, well, hang on asecond, what is it?
You and your word?
Are you not doing the rightthing?
And all of a sudden they quit.
So now they're judgingeverybody and I got to like
create the safe space, right.
But here's the thing that I cantell you that I know is
predictable All the times I'vedone the integrity and keynote,
I'm always going to get thosetwo answers Okay, okay.
(16:18):
And you're astute to understandthat there's a trigger, there's
preconceived notions People maynot understand.
I think, Nathan, you said,people may not understand it
fully.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
So that's one of the things I'm trying to do is, like
, widen and deepen theunderstanding of integrity.
So I get to hold up the mirrorthe first.
I'm going fast now, I know, butfirst answer I'm going to get
always going to say what is it?
Hang on, let's make sure we'retalking about the same thing.
What is it Somebody's going tosay be your word, do what you
say you're going to do.
(16:47):
And then, like Linda, somebodyin my peripheral, somebody's
going to go yeah, right.
And already now I feel thevibration of judgment, like, oh,
you've been wronged, have you?
And somebody not kept theirword with you.
It is cute, right, but I'll gothere and just like oh, did they
take your answer?
You're agreeing, so right,theologically, people go, or
(17:09):
yeah, or go.
There's like movement whensomebody says be your word, okay
, we're pinning that on theboard, we like that, We'll work
with that.
And then the other answer I getand I'm always, you know, I
shift my energy to the otherside of the room to be inclusive
and get everybody going Do thesame thing when nobody's
watching as you would whensomebody's watching.
(17:30):
Yeah, like, do the right thingregardless of who's watching.
Okay, pin that on the board,and now those are the two that I
work with.
I say, hey, here's what I likeabout those two, and now I want
to be a thought leader.
First thing I like about thetwo is that when we do what we
say we're going to do, weintegrate.
There's a coming together ofword with behavior.
Those two things are togetherwhen we do what we say we're
going to do, they're nottogether.
(17:51):
When we've just said somethingand not done it, do you know
what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
And then, of course, with behaviors and values.
Over here, right To do theright thing, regardless of who's
watching.
Now we're integrating behaviorwith a value or a moral or a
North Star or an ethic, but inboth cases there's coming
together and in both, you saw,that's the first thing I like
I-N-T-E-G they both start withthe same six letters, but nobody
uses the word or the concept ofcoming together.
(18:17):
When I asked what integrity isthe?
No judgment, not good or bad orright or wrong.
It's together or not together.
And then, of course, behaviors,in both equations, behavior with
word and behavior with.
So now I get to make the pointthat we judge ourselves by
intent, but behavior is theevidence of our integrity.
And I'm starting to create asafer, funny space, interactive
space, funny for people to startto look within at their
(18:38):
behavior.
We're just starting.
But then when I talk about whatI don't like about the two,
that's what gives me the excuseto fit.
So I come up with 10 things.
I mean, if you want to hear the10 point model and pop, pop,
pop, pop, pop, pop, I go throughthe 10 points, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
So when you are then working with a smaller group,
because I want you to bring usfrom the keynote to the you know
to the the workroom right orthe table.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
The boardroom yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, so how does the conversation shift?
How do people communicate morehonestly about the topic?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
In different ways, because that's one of the things
I like is the freedom withinthe framework.
There's so much familiarity inthe 10-point model and if I just
missed you and tell you whatthe 10 points are, you're going
to be like yeah, yeah, yeah.
They each become clickable,like let me double click on this
one and now the whole land ofdiscussion and content and let
me double click on this one andthere's right, it's kind of set
up that way.
There's one of the things Ilike about it the freedom within
(19:34):
the framework and itsflexibility.
It's it's a wireframe, but nowlike playground, right, we know
when we're in, we know whenwe're out, and there's
predetermined stuff on theplayground and lots of free
space to create right, right,right, right.
But a more simple way to answerthe question is this I think In
Keynote I'm introducing the10-point model, I'm trying to
(19:55):
thought lead, an expansion or adepth around how we look at
integrity and I'm trying toinvite people to look within
when it comes to integrity andI'm making the argument it's all
informational, right, and I'mmaking the argument that we can
retrofit ourselves.
A building, a bridge or a tunnelwill collapse under pressure
tests without structuralintegrity will slow individuals,
(20:15):
thieves and cultures.
So how do we, from a softskills perspective, how do we
retrofit?
Well, here's 10 point model andI just simply introduced.
It's informative.
But now in the boardroom I'mgoing to say, all right, let's
get some answers to these, likewe turn the points of the model
into questions and we invite theanswering of the question.
What is the purpose of thecompany or the team, or the
(20:37):
retreat or the event, or theproduct or the launch?
What's the purpose?
What are the gifts andcompetitive advantages?
What's the potential?
We break that down Vision,mission, objectives to
facilitate right.
What are the SMART goals?
What are the strategies,tactics and resources?
What's our relationship withour word?
What words are we using?
Back to what Brian brought upIntegrity is a softer, more
(20:58):
inviting word thanaccountability.
If I started my keynotes, youguys want to laugh here.
It goes a little something likethis by show of hands, how many
, how many of you have anexternal accountability source
that you pay money and givepermission to hold up a mirror
in your face whenever you'rewavering from your vision,
mission?
Speaker 4 (21:16):
no vibe, yeah what else, when else?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
yeah yeah, yeah, totally so how do you?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
you?
Because if you Google what isintegrity, there's a million
like motivational poster typethings that it's like posters a
concept of consistency ofactions, values, methods,
measured principles, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah.
Well, you know, a criminalcould have integrity because
they're all about, you know,robbing banks and whatever.
(21:44):
So I think this is kind of whatyou're talking about.
How do you step way back fromthat?
So you're introducing thisframework through this idea of
the integrity game, but how doyou step back and get people to
really wrestle with what are mylife values?
I mean, people spend a lifetimefiguring that out and to figure
out, is this action consistentwith what I say?
(22:04):
Like, how do you?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
It's the hard part.
It's the hard part, and I cantell you that I can talk, I can
get people to think about it, Ican get people to wrestle with
it.
Up here, the line that it'shard to get people to cross over
is tell me your answers, make adeclaration, take a chance, be
vulnerable, be honest withyourself.
(22:27):
Why are you on this planet?
Why are you in this company?
What's your purpose?
You follow so many people avoidthat because as soon as you
answer now, you can be heldaccountable to it.
What an enormous responsibility.
How do we make that easier,right?
So, in other words, I'm stillplaying with this.
I know that you got a questionfor me, brian, but you
(22:52):
understand like I'm begging theworld to just draft your answers
.
Draft, I use the word draft,just draft some answers.
What's your purpose?
What are your gifts?
What's your potential?
What are you trying to are?
And not the hope, the wish orthe dream, the goal, the what,
by when?
And is the goal integrated withyour potential?
Is the goal integrated withstrategy?
Is everything together?
Is everything like?
Imagine this, imagine like.
I know I'm conceptual, I want toget, I really want to hear what
(23:15):
Brian's questioning, but let'sjust say we all do a thousand
things a day.
All I'm trying to do whatBrian's questioning?
But let's just say we all do athousand things a day.
All I'm trying to do isincrease the number of those
that are integrated with eachother and our answers Right.
(23:36):
So, to be silly about it,because I'm using Trojan horse
all the time, right, you guyshave heard it said if we are not
learning or if we are notgrowing, we're dying.
So I'm here to say if we're notintegrating, we might be
disintegrating.
Brian, what was your question?
Speaker 4 (24:01):
people are willing to talk about with integrity.
Have you noticed the themes ofwhat people are unwilling?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
to talk about, because I think that you have,
first of all, yeah, it's funny.
The funny answer to that iswe're just going to work on my
business, right?
We're just going to work on mybusiness.
I know they're screwed up atall right, that's kind of a sure
tell.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Please don't go into this area.
We're only talking about but?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
but the serious aspect of your question, Brian,
things that people are purposelytrying to avoid, or they
declare are off limits, or theytry to smoke and mirror and dirt
.
Give me an example.
I mean because, yes, but peoplesay well, do you do life
coaching or are you a businesscoach?
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Yes, right.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Like how do you separate?
That's the flag.
I weigh is that we can't builda mansion on top of quicksand
and I can give you the bestbranding strategy that will
revolutionize your outboundmarketing.
But if, while I'm giving youthat strategy, you're worrying
about your two mistresses andyour estranged daughter, you
might not land.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yeah, it might not land, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
You know like, if you are half asleep because you're
overweight and if there's sixcans of like high fructose corn
soda on your desk.
Maybe we should, maybe we should.
I'm not a doctor, but I'm hereto talk to you about everything
that might be affecting what youwant in this world.
Don't tell me your goal is toget high blood pressure.
That's not your goal.
Your goal is to be a leader anda role model for your kids, and
you tell me what you want andI'll help you get there.
Yeah, brian, did I does that?
Speaker 4 (25:32):
answer that, or yeah, in part because I think that,
um, you have a, you have theword to talk about.
We know, as human beings,people want to, you know, make
sense of some of the things thatare providing them some
internal conflict and dissonance, and lack of integrity is one
of those.
That's why I asked the questionare there themes to which
(25:53):
people are willing to talk about?
Are you sensing what they'reintentionally avoiding?
So I really feel that theinvitation to talk about
integrity is an invitation totalk about the places in your
life where you feel you need it.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
There's a series of things that people are avoiding.
Let me just, in no particularorder, a couple come to mind.
What are they, Jeff?
Speaker 4 (26:17):
Tell me more Hard work.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Behavioral change, even the most constructive
criticism.
So what we know about humanbeings?
We can learn a lot from justsimplified or flat response.
So if there's by the ear, Idon't't stop.
I hear a buzz by my ear andthat means, uh, if it's a, b, I
(26:46):
could get stung and I'm indanger and I don't want that.
So what should I do?
That's what I we justimmediately swatting right,
fight or flight.
The swatting concurrentconcurrent right.
So you follow like we'rehardwired to protect ourselves,
aren't we?
Yes, I mean, guess what?
We look, and it was a.
Why?
Hmm, it was a non-threat at all, it was a fly instead of a bee
(27:08):
right, and we swat and duckedanyway.
So doesn't that happen the sameway emotionally?
So what are people afraid of?
Yeah, people are afraid ofinformation that contradicts
their sense of, because ifanything comes along, anything
in any way or form, that'sdifferent than my sense of stuff
, that means I got to work and Igot to change behavior and I
got to start telling the truthand I got to think critically is
(27:29):
.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
There's also a fundamental human need to be
held accountable because it's avery unique way to forming
strong, lasting relationshipswhere there's high trust.
And so you're bringing up twowords, accountability and
(27:51):
integrity, which I think arejust on ramps to another type of
conversation about where do Ibelong, how is it that I can be
understood by others, and whatare some of those connective
tissues that hold us together?
I think some of the ones some ofthose key connective tissues
are the terms you're identifyingaccountability and integrity.
(28:11):
That can help us understand whywe're here.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah, in my model, when I do the keynote right, I
use the analogy of a shoelacesright.
So shoelaces, the laces are nottying the shoe, we tie the
laces.
What the laces are doing isintegrating, bringing the left
side together Five holes on oneside, five holes on the other
side.
And that's how I introduced theten points on the model with
these shoelaces right.
But then that allows me to saythat guess what the laces are?
(28:37):
They're the adhesive.
So the laces are, they're theadhesive.
So the laces are our values.
The laces are our love or ourhonesty, or our desire for trust
or collaboration or any of thevalues you want to put in.
That becomes the adhesive thatkeeps our integrity game
together, our answers together.
What were you going to say?
Speaker 3 (28:53):
yeah.
Well, I'm so curious about anyof your examples where you've
had a breakthrough, where agroup has had a breakthrough
when it comes to integrity,where one element of I don't
know one element of the keynoteor the discussion, or maybe
their own space to even discovertheir aha, where you really,
you know, really help them getinto the integrity game or
(29:17):
experience life change as aresult of, of leaning into one
of the components.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
I'm not asking for names, but yeah, yeah, not names
.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
There's a, a firm, a law firm, and I I was working
with the founder of the firmwhen he was solo, okay and um,
this is before I even developedthe integrity game model.
But we did a lot ofaccountability, right, and you
got to the point where, hey, youneed to grow, you're making all
the rain and you're buried inthe work and you never hung up
for dinner and you got to hireanother attorney.
(29:48):
I'm afraid, I'm afraid, I'mafraid.
How am I going to Trust me?
Trust me, let's start yourstrategic staffing process.
Anyway, bottom line, he growsand he's got two partners, right
, so this is, and then twoassociates.
So I'm back working with thefirm, right, but I'm coming back
to retrofit the firm that youknow right, and so I'm now I'm
(30:10):
working with the partners andeverything.
So one of the partners has beenthe partners for five, six,
seven years through this processLike you're going to have a
conversation, we're talkingabout the integrity game, you're
going to draft answers to thesequestions has volunteered
recently.
I don't like practicing lawanymore.
(30:32):
This is not part of my purpose.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Do you follow oh?
Speaker 4 (30:36):
yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
And was miserable inside, and going on and on and
on, and now you know what I mean, and going on, and on and on,
and now you know what I mean,then, like, imagine the ripple
effect of how it affects thefirm.
And so now and now we can tellthe truth, now we can behave
honest, now we can do what'sright instead of being ashamed
or afraid to talk or tell thetruth or what are the
repercussions or whatever.
If you're getting really honestabout who you are and you get
(31:00):
really honest about why you'reat this burn and I just create
the safest place for you to havean honest answer to this
question you might arrive atlike, oh my God, I'm dying on
the vine and it's not fair to mypartners.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
That's good, love it, love it.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
That's one example.
Everybody's free Now.
Everybody's free, right, he'sfree, especially him.
Imagine his wife and the rippleeffect.
That's one example that comesto mind is fresh.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
In you diving in head first with this idea, with the
concept of integrity.
What have you learned aboutyour own integrity in this
process?
Speaker 1 (31:37):
That I can prove it that it's not just a source of
beat myself up, it's not just animposter syndrome or fear of
missing out.
People make it sexy.
People say oh, I'm such aprocrastinator, that's not a
becoming word.
Why is it okay for you to saythat about yourself?
There's people that aren'tthinking about things and they
(31:59):
just accept as part of theiridentities that they're
underachieving, and I don't youknow, but what the integrity
game has done for me is.
It's getting me focused on howto improve my integrity, how to
increase the retrospect myself,rather than just beat myself up
over everything.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
I'm not achieving, I'm more resilient.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I know what to say yes to.
I know what to say yes to.
I know what to say no to.
I'm not people pleasing, I'mnot taking, I'm not a feather
being blown in the wind by otherpeople's agendas.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
I there's so many briefly yeah, answer the
question, that's good.
Well, jeff, I want to thank you, um, because I know I gotta
bounce, but I want to say onething I really appreciate, um,
your handle of the englishlanguage.
Let me say why Because I canimagine the way you connect to
audiences, because you have somany ways to express what it is
(32:48):
that you're trying to say andyou know that then that creates
this massive net to capture alot of people's attention in
ways that people that don't havethat type of scope to the way
they express themselves.
So I can just imagine how you'dcheck people.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I really appreciate that.
That is well-received, thankyou.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Brian, I do have one quick question.
I think we can answer it.
You kind of said it, started tosay it there, but none of this
work is like a game in the sensethat you play nine innings and
it's done.
There's a winner and a loser.
There's a constant, a lifetimeof work from being, you know,
having integrity with who yousay you are all that stuff.
(33:30):
So how do you coach people orhelp people when they do quote,
unquote, fall off the wagon ofintegrity?
I don't think that's a thing.
But you know, when people arediscouraged, like oh man, I was
making progress and then Ididn't, and then like what is
that process like?
Or maybe even just to sort ofend with a word of encouragement
to remind people that all ofthis stuff is like a lifelong
(33:53):
process, don't be so hard onyourself.
Keep going, fighting the goodfight, whatever other
metaphorical things you want tosay to it.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
There you go, you said it all.
I mean, look like, I meanthere's so many things to
respond to that Like the onlyperson that's, the only person
that's worried that they're notgood enough for the next level
is the person that knows they'regoing, if you right.
So just just keep growing, keepgrowing, keep growing.
There's growing pain.
Sometimes it hurts.
Growing, keep growing, keepgrowing.
There's growing pain.
Sometimes it hurts.
Like you like, just like, stayaway from the pain of regret.
(34:22):
Okay, take action and even ifyou fail, you'll learn
something's.
Most things, failure, justlearning, wrapped in a little
discomfort.
Don't let the packaging foolyou.
Always check in with yourselfabout who you are and what you
want.
Who are you, what do you want,who are you and what do you want
, and try to stay as true tothat as you can, and and if the
integrity game can help you,then we'd love to help.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
I like it.
Well, Jeff Klubeck, thank youso much.
This was awesome.
Thank you so much for yourenergy and your insight and I'm
going to link to the Klubysnacks and the other stuff that
you've got going on.
I will put a link to all ofyour resources.
So just thank you so much, as Isaid, and just best of luck to
you.
Thanks, Nathan, Thank you Linda.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Brian.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Yeah, so good.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Thank you so much, hey.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Another big thank you to Jeff Klubeck for taking the
time to chat with us on thepodcast.
You can learn more about Jeffand all the good work he is
doing at theintegritygamecom.
We're also through the link inour show notes.
And just a reminder thatintegrity isn't about never
making mistakes.
It's about owning your actionsand continuously striving for
alignment between values andbehavior.
(35:28):
Jeff encouraged us to stay trueto our purpose, to embrace
accountability and keep growingthings that we're all about here
at Leadership Vision.
If you would like to learn moreabout how we help individuals
and teams do that, you can clickthe link in the show notes or
visit us on the web atleadershipvisionconsultingcom.
But thank you so much fortaking the time to listen to our
(35:49):
podcast.
We would appreciate it if youcould review this on iTunes and
Spotify and wherever you getyour podcasts, but maybe more
importantly, share this withsomeone else that you think
could benefit from growing intothese ideas.
Again, click the link in theshow notes to learn more about
what we do.
Go toleadershipvisionconsultingcom.
Follow us on all the socialmedia platforms.
(36:11):
My name is Nathan Freeberg and,on behalf of our entire team,
thanks for listening.
But let's just say we all do a thousand things a day.
All I'm trying to do isincrease the number of those
that are integrated with eachother and our answers right.
So to be silly about it,because I'm using Trojan horse
all the time, right, you guyshave heard it said if we are not
learning or if we are notgrowing, we're dying.
(00:22):
So I'm here to say if we're notintegrating, we might be
disintegrating.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about us, you canvisit us on the web at
leadershipvisionconsultingcom orclick the link in the show
notes.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Freeberg and today on the
podcast, we have a fascinatingconversation with Jeff Klubeck,
(00:54):
a speaker, coach and the authorof the Integrity Game.
Jeff helps individuals andteams strengthen their
accountability, leadership andpersonal growth by aligning
actions with values.
He also has a weekly livestream where he talks about all
things business, leadership andmore.
That, I think, is really great,and you can find all of that at
(01:14):
theintegritygamecom or againfrom the link in the show notes.
Our conversation here todayexplores what integrity really
means, how to create a cultureof accountability and why
self-reflection is key tosuccess.
Now, Jeff is a lot of thingsand this was a really fun
conversation, but he describeshimself as energetic, fast-paced
(01:35):
, humor-laced and a littlein-your-face.
So let's get started.
I gotta be honest, I'm a littlebit not sure where we start
because initially, when yourpeople reached out, I was like,
oh yeah, integrity game.
We can talk about integrity somuch.
It's one of those buzzwords thatpeople don't entirely know what
to talk about.
(01:55):
But then I was like, well, Idon't, maybe we just talk about
baseball, because I'm a bigbaseball guy.
And then the more I kind of gotinto your work of you know,
Linda and I both worked at acollege for many years and then,
you know, taught some classes,all that stuff.
I think what I would like to dois to start this is just tell
us who you are, maybe in kind ofa Cliff Notes version.
(02:18):
Who are you and how did you getto where you are today?
Being someone that is teachingpeople about business, about
leadership, about you know allthings, integrity and kloobie
snacks and wherever that fits in, and just kind of you know you
I saw you have a video on yourelevator pitch, so just give us
your elevator pitch about whojeff is.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Well, to, that's from going up or which building.
You know, like it's, it's true,right, it differs, that's a
good, and either you're touchingupon, like the balance that I
have in my professional lifethese days, totally.
Who am I and how do I describe?
How do I avoid the curse ofknowledge, which is being so
familiar with what I do that Iforgot what it's like not to
know?
And so how do I make sure Iencode it in a way that lands to
(02:59):
the audience instead of justthe audience, instead of the
audience?
That's a fun challenge that I'mwrestling with all the time.
Who's Jeff?
I'm my wife's husband.
I'm Marianne's husband I wake upman, how did I get here?
I wake up every day and Ifigure out how I'm going to
deserve my wife and kids.
So that's it.
I start there and next thing Iknow I'm out of bed helping
people.
And I got a lot of help when Iwas growing up.
My parents, they loved eachother but they didn't go to
(03:20):
college, they didn't havesuccess in your career or
business, they struggled.
They, you know they loved eachother.
Yeah, I'm kind of a self-madeguy.
I got some help when I got tocollege.
You know, I had to deliverpizzas and I had two jobs and I
would go home every otherweekend and I, you know, I'm
self-made.
You know I used to survive onsix pieces of bread.
You know, mustard sandwich ofthe morning and the afternoon
(03:41):
and the evening sandwich of themorning and the afternoon and
the evening.
Right, but I say that, you know,with with humor and great
gratitude because, like,whatever mom and dad did, they,
they had me fighting, they hadme on the continuum of mental
disease and more on the neuroticside than the character
disorders that you know I'dmaybe take too much
responsibility for things.
That not enough, right?
Well, you know, I went tocollege and I was the first
person to go to college and Iwas on my own for the first time
(04:03):
and you know I didn't have.
I had to work.
I didn't make it happen.
Mom and dad, we don't have anymoney for you.
So I did like I thought I wasgoing to drop out and the
mentors on campus sent me moneyto stay in school.
And I'm built on gratitude.
Who am I?
I'm this grateful dude.
That's cool.
I love that.
I'm like really like I cry, Iget emotional, I get overcome
(04:24):
with gratitude, like how did Iget here?
Pinch me, right?
So how did Marianne say yes?
How are my kids so amazing?
So I got a lot to be gratefulfor and I got a lot of that.
You know, epicenter, san DiegoState University that's where I
grew up, where I learned how tobe a student, I learned how to
figure it out, I got thementoring I needed, and so to be
(04:44):
back at San Diego State at thisstage of my life is like full
circle stuff.
It's amazing.
I started your bachelor's,master's, I started teaching
while I was getting my master'sdegree.
Lo and behold, I was good at it.
You're teaching public speakingalso right.
So it's like they don't want tobe there.
They have to be there.
It's general ed right, they're,they're terrified and they're
(05:10):
you know.
So you're not just teaching aclass, but you're like
connecting with people andhelping them ease their fears
and teaching them how to finishwhat they start and showing them
that you believe in them.
And it's, it's, it's way hyper.
Now that I've got all of mypersonal profession growth chops
under my belt, went back in theclassroom as a mature father of
three.
Then, when I was a grad student, stressed out trying to make my
thesis Totally differentexperience right, but I taught
all the way through.
(05:30):
I was referred to in thecommunity college district and
so, while I was building mycareer as a headhunter and an
internal recruiter, and then Idon't know what I want to do
because we started to build afamily Mary Ann, you go work,
I'll figure it out.
I got a real estate license.
I formed a C Corp, I made theclip art business card with the
dude holding a light bulb needsome ideas, and I just put on a
(05:55):
real estate costume and startedtalking it up and figuring out
how to make it happen.
I thought I'd be a consultant,right.
And so I met a title rep at areal estate event.
He's like oh, you're a coach.
And I postured Wow, the cardsays consultants.
I'd be like $0 and 0 cents as aconsultant Right.
So that's why I have a lot ofadmiration for what you guys do
at leadership, vision consulting, like the whole management
consulting for corporates,larger organizations.
(06:16):
But I went into it like what'sa coach.
What do you mean?
What's coaching?
Tell me about that.
Oh, you know motivation andgoal setting and tell me more.
And I thought, hey, if Ilearned this coaching piece and,
by the way, I was in realestate circles nobody's hiring
consultants, but they're hiringcoaches, right?
Top performers, top producers,sales professionals all the
hands in the real estate cookiejar mortgage.
You know, real estate, homefinance, estate planning,
(06:41):
financial advisors you know theyall got their hands on the real
estate transaction cookie jarright.
So I learned how to coach andto cut my teeth and then I was
better in the classroom becauseof it and I was better coached
because of the classroom.
And then I realized coaching wasa little bit limiting.
So you got to expand toconsulting and training and I
teach public speaking so I'm apretty good speaker for hire.
I could train other speakersand dabbled in seminar industry
(07:06):
a little bit.
I was like the coach that wouldget assigned to these
entrepreneurs that wereinvesting in you know speak on
stage for 15 minutes and I'd goout and get them ready and I
facilitate at business retreatand personal growth and business
development, wealth buildingthrough small business ownership
, real estate.
Covid hit started writing booksto support what I'm doing Now,
(07:26):
like when I introduce my stuff.
I play around and say I'm asoft skills guy, soft skills for
strong leaders, soft skills forstrong teams, soft skills for
strong organizations.
But I'm an empath, I'menergetic, I'm fast-paced,
humor-laced, little in your face.
I like that I like it, yeah, andso for me, it's like when I
(07:47):
learned accountability.
What is accountability?
What's the willingness to becounted?
How do you deliveraccountability in a way that
keeps people engaged?
How do you confront people thatare adults like?
How do we shape the path?
Grease the skids, ease theprocess, make it fun and easy to
look within?
How do we promoteself-responsibility?
All things I want in my ownlife, yeah, you follow.
I really really put theaccountability training.
(08:08):
So I consider myselfworld-class in terms of
accountability, coaching anddelivering non-threatening
accountability framework and soforth.
And the integrity game is a10-point model that allows you
to deliver services coaching,consulting, training but it's
really based, it's been born, inthe land of accountability.
Okay, here's 10 points treatthese as questions, answer these
questions, share your answerswith me and that's what you're
(08:29):
accountable for your answers.
So that's cool.
That's a lot in terms of whoare you, but I thought I'd show
you the art is your?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
is your, are you luke to terry, like from from the
characters from your book, like,yeah, is that a little based on
your life, of the kind of-.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I don't have a long-winded answer to that one
yes, okay, you know the idea ofthe parable, right?
Yeah, totally it's like, hey,let's put a mentor, let's put a
mentee.
But also from a businessperspective, I'm introducing the
integrity game to themarketplace Like it used to be
get a clue, my business, get aclue Inc.
My business, getaclue Inc.
Yeah, it's limiting, right,that's just me.
Nobody wants to be a GetACluecoach.
(09:05):
But if they want to be anintegrity and certified coach,
maybe I can build a firm, maybeI can build a stable of
independently contracted subjectmaker experts that we can help
each other go after biggerprojects rather than either of
us alone.
I have a lot of admiration forthat, but not only me, as Terry
(09:27):
baseball player is based on myson, so tj aj okay, the cotton
candy, cotton candy fails, girlright yeah she's ali, ali, ali,
ali.
My daughter is addy.
Yeah, and at the end of the thebook, when they get to the
charity event and they'reraising money for challenged
athletes, you, you know Dr.
What's his name?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Dr Nate, but his nickname's.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Bubba, after our youngest, brody, okay.
And then Luke the hot dogvendor the wayward hot dog
vendor who Terry takes on thejourney to introduce the 10
points on the model.
I think we can all identifywith Luke Totally.
You know, there's a little bitof Luke in all of us, right?
(10:11):
Yeah, so here I am.
I'm paying homage to my kids.
I started working on the bookafter my parents passed away
three weeks apart, duringpre-vax COVID September of 2020.
But a month prior is when Igave the Integrity Game keynote.
I was referred to the SpecialKey Advertising Association of
California.
I just threw the Integrity Gameon there in the list of topics
just to make the list looksexier.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
And.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I said what's this integrity game thing?
I'm like, oh, now I got tocreate a keynote around it and
that's when all of my ideasabout integrity, or be your word
, or what is integrity Wait,hang on, do what you say you're
going to do, that's enough.
Why did you say you're going todo it?
So I'm playing with thetransformational versus
transactional integrity.
Transactional integrity do whatyou say you're going to do.
(10:47):
But transformational is whyjust say you're going to do it?
What's your purpose, what areyour gifts, what's your
potential?
So are we willing to be countedon all of these things?
Right and so, anyway, it cametogether and shortly I delivered
the keynote, virtually.
I recorded it in the hotel roomdown the street from a dying
parent's house.
It was, it was a, it was, itwas an interesting time.
So I just thought, wow, this,the keynote goes.
(11:08):
Cool.
I got this 10 point model.
Now, if I put an intro and aconclusion, it's a book.
Oh, how about I write a parablebook which mentor will take the
mentee through?
That introduces the 10 pointsthat now I can infuse it with
characters.
You know, infuse the characters, yep.
So now it's like became a, areal passion project and a
therapeutic project and a legacyplay that also introduces my
(11:30):
10-point model that I'm tryingto build my brand around now.
Like everything'smulti-determined right, there's
never more reasons you have fordoing something, the more likely
you are to follow through.
So I had a lot of reasons to dothe integrity game, some of
which I haven't even figured outyet as I watch it incubate and
grow.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
So first of, all sorry about your folks and you
as well.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
You took something and made it a gift and a legacy
to others.
Yeah, it resonated with yourshare earlier, so Jeff when
you're talking aboutaccountability.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
I was hearing like a personal thread that was running
through that, like from yourown story.
Do you have that same personalthread of integrity where
integrity was a theme for you asyou were coming up, or was
integrity a part of what youwere learning through being
accountable?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yes and yes and yes.
It's a multi-determined.
Yes and yes and yes.
It's multi-determined.
It's easy to be baffled withover pre-accountability days.
Golly.
I wish I had some mentoring.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I wish I had some guidance.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I wish my parents had knocked some sense into me or
actually punished me for some ofmy transgressions.
I could talk my way in and outof anything.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Yeah, okay, right, okay yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
And I got away with a lot.
And, looking back, I did a lot.
You know I got caught a lot too, but I did a lot of
embarrassing stuff and Imentoring I didn't.
Okay, you follow them.
We judge ourselves by it.
We judge ourselves by intents,you know, and the rest of the
world's judging our behavior,yeah, right, right.
So when I finally got matureenough to look within and and
(13:14):
question my own behavior andthought like, hey, who am I
being?
Right now that I'm, you know,like it's starting to look
within and starting to takeresponsibility for any challenge
I was having, starting to takeyou like, what's my role in this
?
What's going on here?
Who am I being?
What am I?
Well, it was eye open to getinto personal profession with
myself jeff the word integrity.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
It's one of those words where um, I think it's a
reactive word like people have areaction to the word and so,
like you know, there are somewords that we use in consulting
which we know is an emotionaldraw it's drawing people in.
And what I also find is thatthere are some words that we use
in consulting which we know isan emotional draw, it's drawing
people in.
And what I also find is thatthere's words that you might not
say initially because it's areaction that people will get.
(13:53):
When you bring up integrity ina corporate environment, do you
find that you then have to spendsome time creating a safe space
for people to talk about theneed and what's that like for
you then?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
How's that sound?
It's, it's, it's layered.
First of all, thank you, causeI'm going to get into character
now.
I'm like, thank you into myimaginary keynote, mike, you'll
be in the audience with me,right, and I'll show you.
But it's layered Right Because,yeah, integrity.
There is an emotional reactionto it because, well, there's two
sides to that coin, and I'mgoing to show you what I mean by
that in a second.
Let's pin that on the board.
But secondly, integrity game iscreating the safe space for
(14:30):
this other thing calledaccountability.
Right, do you follow?
So the thing that people reallyhad a problem with is
accountability.
So imagine if I said like nowlet's get into the keynote,
right.
It goes a little something likethis Now let's get into the
keynote, right.
It goes a little something likethis All right, here we go,
ready to play the integrity game.
How many of you believe youhave integrity?
All the hands go up.
There's an emotional reaction.
(14:51):
I want to associate myself withintegrity.
That's one side of thisemotional reaction.
Okay, now back to safe space.
Humor is a Trojan horse,fast-paced humor, laced in your
face, a little in your face, allright, hang on.
Oh, left hand, I'm sorry forthose of you that raised your
left, switch to your right andkeep your hands up and repeat
after me.
I, I do do solemnly swear,swear, not to shoot the
(15:13):
messenger in 35 minutes when thekeynote's over.
I get the laugh right.
Hang on, I want to be invitedback.
So I'm not trying to offend youguys and say that you don't
have any integrity.
So let's make sure we'retalking about the same thing.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Now, that's where I pause the key and I start to get
illicit audience response.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
To get the audience, I get an anchor on the left side
of the room.
I get an anchor on the rightside of the room.
I get them to declare and now,brian, here's what I think
you're going to like about this.
Right, it's the other side ofthe emotional reaction.
Hang on.
When I asked them what it is,they've immediately it's amazing
(15:56):
.
They've immediately gone fromoh, I have it, I have it, I have
it, it's great, it's wonderful.
And I said, well, hang on asecond, what is it?
You and your word?
Are you not doing the rightthing?
And all of a sudden they quit.
So now they're judgingeverybody and I got to like
create the safe space, right.
But here's the thing that I cantell you that I know is
predictable All the times I'vedone the integrity and keynote,
I'm always going to get thosetwo answers Okay, okay.
(16:18):
And you're astute to understandthat there's a trigger, there's
preconceived notions People maynot understand.
I think, Nathan, you said,people may not understand it
fully.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
So that's one of the things I'm trying to do is, like
, widen and deepen theunderstanding of integrity.
So I get to hold up the mirrorthe first.
I'm going fast now, I know, butfirst answer I'm going to get
always going to say what is it?
Hang on, let's make sure we'retalking about the same thing.
What is it Somebody's going tosay be your word, do what you
say you're going to do.
(16:47):
And then, like Linda, somebodyin my peripheral, somebody's
going to go yeah, right.
And already now I feel thevibration of judgment, like, oh,
you've been wronged, have you?
And somebody not kept theirword with you.
It is cute, right, but I'll gothere and just like oh, did they
take your answer?
You're agreeing, so right,theologically, people go, or
(17:09):
yeah, or go.
There's like movement whensomebody says be your word, okay
, we're pinning that on theboard, we like that, We'll work
with that.
And then the other answer I getand I'm always, you know, I
shift my energy to the otherside of the room to be inclusive
and get everybody going Do thesame thing when nobody's
watching as you would whensomebody's watching.
(17:30):
Yeah, like, do the right thingregardless of who's watching.
Okay, pin that on the board,and now those are the two that I
work with.
I say, hey, here's what I likeabout those two, and now I want
to be a thought leader.
First thing I like about thetwo is that when we do what we
say we're going to do, weintegrate.
There's a coming together ofword with behavior.
Those two things are togetherwhen we do what we say we're
going to do, they're nottogether.
(17:51):
When we've just said somethingand not done it, do you know
what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
And then, of course, with behaviors and values.
Over here, right To do theright thing, regardless of who's
watching.
Now we're integrating behaviorwith a value or a moral or a
North Star or an ethic, but inboth cases there's coming
together and in both, you saw,that's the first thing I like
I-N-T-E-G they both start withthe same six letters, but nobody
uses the word or the concept ofcoming together.
(18:17):
When I asked what integrity isthe?
No judgment, not good or bad orright or wrong.
It's together or not together.
And then, of course, behaviors,in both equations, behavior with
word and behavior with.
So now I get to make the pointthat we judge ourselves by
intent, but behavior is theevidence of our integrity.
And I'm starting to create asafer, funny space, interactive
space, funny for people to startto look within at their
(18:38):
behavior.
We're just starting.
But then when I talk about whatI don't like about the two,
that's what gives me the excuseto fit.
So I come up with 10 things.
I mean, if you want to hear the10 point model and pop, pop,
pop, pop, pop, pop, I go throughthe 10 points, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
So when you are then working with a smaller group,
because I want you to bring usfrom the keynote to the you know
to the the workroom right orthe table.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
The boardroom yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, so how does the conversation shift?
How do people communicate morehonestly about the topic?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
In different ways, because that's one of the things
I like is the freedom withinthe framework.
There's so much familiarity inthe 10-point model and if I just
missed you and tell you whatthe 10 points are, you're going
to be like yeah, yeah, yeah.
They each become clickable,like let me double click on this
one and now the whole land ofdiscussion and content and let
me double click on this one andthere's right, it's kind of set
up that way.
There's one of the things Ilike about it the freedom within
(19:34):
the framework and itsflexibility.
It's it's a wireframe, but nowlike playground, right, we know
when we're in, we know whenwe're out, and there's
predetermined stuff on theplayground and lots of free
space to create right, right,right, right.
But a more simple way to answerthe question is this I think In
Keynote I'm introducing the10-point model, I'm trying to
(19:55):
thought lead, an expansion or adepth around how we look at
integrity and I'm trying toinvite people to look within
when it comes to integrity andI'm making the argument it's all
informational, right, and I'mmaking the argument that we can
retrofit ourselves.
A building, a bridge or a tunnelwill collapse under pressure
tests without structuralintegrity will slow individuals,
(20:15):
thieves and cultures.
So how do we, from a softskills perspective, how do we
retrofit?
Well, here's 10 point model andI just simply introduced.
It's informative.
But now in the boardroom I'mgoing to say, all right, let's
get some answers to these, likewe turn the points of the model
into questions and we invite theanswering of the question.
What is the purpose of thecompany or the team, or the
(20:37):
retreat or the event, or theproduct or the launch?
What's the purpose?
What are the gifts andcompetitive advantages?
What's the potential?
We break that down Vision,mission, objectives to
facilitate right.
What are the SMART goals?
What are the strategies,tactics and resources?
What's our relationship withour word?
What words are we using?
Back to what Brian brought upIntegrity is a softer, more
(20:58):
inviting word thanaccountability.
If I started my keynotes, youguys want to laugh here.
It goes a little something likethis by show of hands, how many
, how many of you have anexternal accountability source
that you pay money and givepermission to hold up a mirror
in your face whenever you'rewavering from your vision,
mission?
Speaker 4 (21:16):
no vibe, yeah what else, when else?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
yeah yeah, yeah, totally so how do you?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
you?
Because if you Google what isintegrity, there's a million
like motivational poster typethings that it's like posters a
concept of consistency ofactions, values, methods,
measured principles, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah.
Well, you know, a criminalcould have integrity because
they're all about, you know,robbing banks and whatever.
(21:44):
So I think this is kind of whatyou're talking about.
How do you step way back fromthat?
So you're introducing thisframework through this idea of
the integrity game, but how doyou step back and get people to
really wrestle with what are mylife values?
I mean, people spend a lifetimefiguring that out and to figure
out, is this action consistentwith what I say?
(22:04):
Like, how do you?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
It's the hard part.
It's the hard part, and I cantell you that I can talk, I can
get people to think about it, Ican get people to wrestle with
it.
Up here, the line that it'shard to get people to cross over
is tell me your answers, make adeclaration, take a chance, be
vulnerable, be honest withyourself.
(22:27):
Why are you on this planet?
Why are you in this company?
What's your purpose?
You follow so many people avoidthat because as soon as you
answer now, you can be heldaccountable to it.
What an enormous responsibility.
How do we make that easier,right?
So, in other words, I'm stillplaying with this.
I know that you got a questionfor me, brian, but you
(22:52):
understand like I'm begging theworld to just draft your answers
.
Draft, I use the word draft,just draft some answers.
What's your purpose?
What are your gifts?
What's your potential?
What are you trying to are?
And not the hope, the wish orthe dream, the goal, the what,
by when?
And is the goal integrated withyour potential?
Is the goal integrated withstrategy?
Is everything together?
Is everything like?
Imagine this, imagine like.
I know I'm conceptual, I want toget, I really want to hear what
(23:15):
Brian's questioning, but let'sjust say we all do a thousand
things a day.
All I'm trying to do whatBrian's questioning?
But let's just say we all do athousand things a day.
All I'm trying to do isincrease the number of those
that are integrated with eachother and our answers Right.
(23:36):
So, to be silly about it,because I'm using Trojan horse
all the time, right, you guyshave heard it said if we are not
learning or if we are notgrowing, we're dying.
So I'm here to say if we're notintegrating, we might be
disintegrating.
Brian, what was your question?
Speaker 4 (24:01):
people are willing to talk about with integrity.
Have you noticed the themes ofwhat people are unwilling?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
to talk about, because I think that you have,
first of all, yeah, it's funny.
The funny answer to that iswe're just going to work on my
business, right?
We're just going to work on mybusiness.
I know they're screwed up atall right, that's kind of a sure
tell.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Please don't go into this area.
We're only talking about but?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
but the serious aspect of your question, Brian,
things that people are purposelytrying to avoid, or they
declare are off limits, or theytry to smoke and mirror and dirt
.
Give me an example.
I mean because, yes, but peoplesay well, do you do life
coaching or are you a businesscoach?
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Yes, right.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Like how do you separate?
That's the flag.
I weigh is that we can't builda mansion on top of quicksand
and I can give you the bestbranding strategy that will
revolutionize your outboundmarketing.
But if, while I'm giving youthat strategy, you're worrying
about your two mistresses andyour estranged daughter, you
might not land.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yeah, it might not land, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
You know like, if you are half asleep because you're
overweight and if there's sixcans of like high fructose corn
soda on your desk.
Maybe we should, maybe we should.
I'm not a doctor, but I'm hereto talk to you about everything
that might be affecting what youwant in this world.
Don't tell me your goal is toget high blood pressure.
That's not your goal.
Your goal is to be a leader anda role model for your kids, and
you tell me what you want andI'll help you get there.
Yeah, brian, did I does that?
Speaker 4 (25:32):
answer that, or yeah, in part because I think that,
um, you have a, you have theword to talk about.
We know, as human beings,people want to, you know, make
sense of some of the things thatare providing them some
internal conflict and dissonance, and lack of integrity is one
of those.
That's why I asked the questionare there themes to which
(25:53):
people are willing to talk about?
Are you sensing what they'reintentionally avoiding?
So I really feel that theinvitation to talk about
integrity is an invitation totalk about the places in your
life where you feel you need it.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
There's a series of things that people are avoiding.
Let me just, in no particularorder, a couple come to mind.
What are they, Jeff?
Speaker 4 (26:17):
Tell me more Hard work.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Behavioral change, even the most constructive
criticism.
So what we know about humanbeings?
We can learn a lot from justsimplified or flat response.
So if there's by the ear, Idon't't stop.
I hear a buzz by my ear andthat means, uh, if it's a, b, I
(26:46):
could get stung and I'm indanger and I don't want that.
So what should I do?
That's what I we justimmediately swatting right,
fight or flight.
The swatting concurrentconcurrent right.
So you follow like we'rehardwired to protect ourselves,
aren't we?
Yes, I mean, guess what?
We look, and it was a.
Why?
Hmm, it was a non-threat at all, it was a fly instead of a bee
(27:08):
right, and we swat and duckedanyway.
So doesn't that happen the sameway emotionally?
So what are people afraid of?
Yeah, people are afraid ofinformation that contradicts
their sense of, because ifanything comes along, anything
in any way or form, that'sdifferent than my sense of stuff
, that means I got to work and Igot to change behavior and I
got to start telling the truthand I got to think critically is
(27:29):
.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
There's also a fundamental human need to be
held accountable because it's avery unique way to forming
strong, lasting relationshipswhere there's high trust.
And so you're bringing up twowords, accountability and
(27:51):
integrity, which I think arejust on ramps to another type of
conversation about where do Ibelong, how is it that I can be
understood by others, and whatare some of those connective
tissues that hold us together?
I think some of the ones some ofthose key connective tissues
are the terms you're identifyingaccountability and integrity.
(28:11):
That can help us understand whywe're here.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah, in my model, when I do the keynote right, I
use the analogy of a shoelacesright.
So shoelaces, the laces are nottying the shoe, we tie the
laces.
What the laces are doing isintegrating, bringing the left
side together Five holes on oneside, five holes on the other
side.
And that's how I introduced theten points on the model with
these shoelaces right.
But then that allows me to saythat guess what the laces are?
(28:37):
They're the adhesive.
So the laces are, they're theadhesive.
So the laces are our values.
The laces are our love or ourhonesty, or our desire for trust
or collaboration or any of thevalues you want to put in.
That becomes the adhesive thatkeeps our integrity game
together, our answers together.
What were you going to say?
Speaker 3 (28:53):
yeah.
Well, I'm so curious about anyof your examples where you've
had a breakthrough, where agroup has had a breakthrough
when it comes to integrity,where one element of I don't
know one element of the keynoteor the discussion, or maybe
their own space to even discovertheir aha, where you really,
you know, really help them getinto the integrity game or
(29:17):
experience life change as aresult of, of leaning into one
of the components.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
I'm not asking for names, but yeah, yeah, not names
.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
There's a, a firm, a law firm, and I I was working
with the founder of the firmwhen he was solo, okay and um,
this is before I even developedthe integrity game model.
But we did a lot ofaccountability, right, and you
got to the point where, hey, youneed to grow, you're making all
the rain and you're buried inthe work and you never hung up
for dinner and you got to hireanother attorney.
(29:48):
I'm afraid, I'm afraid, I'mafraid.
How am I going to Trust me?
Trust me, let's start yourstrategic staffing process.
Anyway, bottom line, he growsand he's got two partners, right
, so this is, and then twoassociates.
So I'm back working with thefirm, right, but I'm coming back
to retrofit the firm that youknow right, and so I'm now I'm
(30:10):
working with the partners andeverything.
So one of the partners has beenthe partners for five, six,
seven years through this processLike you're going to have a
conversation, we're talkingabout the integrity game, you're
going to draft answers to thesequestions has volunteered
recently.
I don't like practicing lawanymore.
(30:32):
This is not part of my purpose.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Do you follow oh?
Speaker 4 (30:36):
yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
And was miserable inside, and going on and on and
on, and now you know what I mean, and going on, and on and on,
and now you know what I mean,then, like, imagine the ripple
effect of how it affects thefirm.
And so now and now we can tellthe truth, now we can behave
honest, now we can do what'sright instead of being ashamed
or afraid to talk or tell thetruth or what are the
repercussions or whatever.
If you're getting really honestabout who you are and you get
(31:00):
really honest about why you'reat this burn and I just create
the safest place for you to havean honest answer to this
question you might arrive atlike, oh my God, I'm dying on
the vine and it's not fair to mypartners.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
That's good, love it, love it.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
That's one example.
Everybody's free Now.
Everybody's free, right, he'sfree, especially him.
Imagine his wife and the rippleeffect.
That's one example that comesto mind is fresh.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
In you diving in head first with this idea, with the
concept of integrity.
What have you learned aboutyour own integrity in this
process?
Speaker 1 (31:37):
That I can prove it that it's not just a source of
beat myself up, it's not just animposter syndrome or fear of
missing out.
People make it sexy.
People say oh, I'm such aprocrastinator, that's not a
becoming word.
Why is it okay for you to saythat about yourself?
There's people that aren'tthinking about things and they
(31:59):
just accept as part of theiridentities that they're
underachieving, and I don't youknow, but what the integrity
game has done for me is.
It's getting me focused on howto improve my integrity, how to
increase the retrospect myself,rather than just beat myself up
over everything.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
I'm not achieving, I'm more resilient.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I know what to say yes to.
I know what to say yes to.
I know what to say no to.
I'm not people pleasing, I'mnot taking, I'm not a feather
being blown in the wind by otherpeople's agendas.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
I there's so many briefly yeah, answer the
question, that's good.
Well, jeff, I want to thank you, um, because I know I gotta
bounce, but I want to say onething I really appreciate, um,
your handle of the englishlanguage.
Let me say why Because I canimagine the way you connect to
audiences, because you have somany ways to express what it is
(32:48):
that you're trying to say andyou know that then that creates
this massive net to capture alot of people's attention in
ways that people that don't havethat type of scope to the way
they express themselves.
So I can just imagine how you'dcheck people.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I really appreciate that.
That is well-received, thankyou.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Brian, I do have one quick question.
I think we can answer it.
You kind of said it, started tosay it there, but none of this
work is like a game in the sensethat you play nine innings and
it's done.
There's a winner and a loser.
There's a constant, a lifetimeof work from being, you know,
having integrity with who yousay you are all that stuff.
(33:30):
So how do you coach people orhelp people when they do quote,
unquote, fall off the wagon ofintegrity?
I don't think that's a thing.
But you know, when people arediscouraged, like oh man, I was
making progress and then Ididn't, and then like what is
that process like?
Or maybe even just to sort ofend with a word of encouragement
to remind people that all ofthis stuff is like a lifelong
(33:53):
process, don't be so hard onyourself.
Keep going, fighting the goodfight, whatever other
metaphorical things you want tosay to it.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
There you go, you said it all.
I mean, look like, I meanthere's so many things to
respond to that Like the onlyperson that's, the only person
that's worried that they're notgood enough for the next level
is the person that knows they'regoing, if you right.
So just just keep growing, keepgrowing, keep growing.
There's growing pain.
Sometimes it hurts.
Growing, keep growing, keepgrowing.
There's growing pain.
Sometimes it hurts.
Like you like, just like, stayaway from the pain of regret.
(34:22):
Okay, take action and even ifyou fail, you'll learn
something's.
Most things, failure, justlearning, wrapped in a little
discomfort.
Don't let the packaging foolyou.
Always check in with yourselfabout who you are and what you
want.
Who are you, what do you want,who are you and what do you want
, and try to stay as true tothat as you can, and and if the
integrity game can help you,then we'd love to help.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
I like it.
Well, Jeff Klubeck, thank youso much.
This was awesome.
Thank you so much for yourenergy and your insight and I'm
going to link to the Klubysnacks and the other stuff that
you've got going on.
I will put a link to all ofyour resources.
So just thank you so much, as Isaid, and just best of luck to
you.
Thanks, Nathan, Thank you Linda.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Brian.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Yeah, so good.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Thank you so much, hey.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Another big thank you to Jeff Klubeck for taking the
time to chat with us on thepodcast.
You can learn more about Jeffand all the good work he is
doing at theintegritygamecom.
We're also through the link inour show notes.
And just a reminder thatintegrity isn't about never
making mistakes.
It's about owning your actionsand continuously striving for
alignment between values andbehavior.
(35:28):
Jeff encouraged us to stay trueto our purpose, to embrace
accountability and keep growingthings that we're all about here
at Leadership Vision.
If you would like to learn moreabout how we help individuals
and teams do that, you can clickthe link in the show notes or
visit us on the web atleadershipvisionconsultingcom.
But thank you so much fortaking the time to listen to our
(35:49):
podcast.
We would appreciate it if youcould review this on iTunes and
Spotify and wherever you getyour podcasts, but maybe more
importantly, share this withsomeone else that you think
could benefit from growing intothese ideas.
Again, click the link in theshow notes to learn more about
what we do.
Go toleadershipvisionconsultingcom.
Follow us on all the socialmedia platforms.
(36:11):
My name is Nathan Freeberg and,on behalf of our entire team,
thanks for listening.
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