January 20, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode, Nathan Freeburg is joined by Brian Schubring for a deep dive into Born Standing Up: A Comic’s Life by Steve Martin. What started as a discussion about several books they’ve read quickly became a focused conversation about Steve Martin’s memoir. Nathan reflects on the leadership lessons he found in Martin's journey, discussing the practice of leadership, the importance of embracing your uniqueness, and knowing when it’s time to walk away and reinvent yourself. Brian will share his own book review next week, but in the meantime, this episode invites you to think about your own leadership lessons and the books that influence you.
Key Topics Discussed:
- Leadership Takes Practice
- Nathan shares how leadership, like stand-up comedy, is a practice that requires hard work, failure, and growth over time. It’s not about perfection but the journey and the continual effort to improve.
- Embracing Your Uniqueness
- Steve Martin’s story highlights the importance of being true to yourself. Nathan discusses how Martin found his own comedic style and emphasizes the leadership lesson of embracing what makes you unique rather than trying to emulate others.
- It’s Okay to Walk Away and Try Something New
- One of the most striking lessons from Martin’s life is his decision to walk away from the success of his stand-up career to pursue other creative ventures. Nathan reflects on the importance of knowing when to leave behind something that’s no longer fulfilling to make room for something new.
- The Power of Books in Shaping Leadership
- The episode also touches on how books serve as tools or guideposts in life, offering opportunities for growth, affirmation, and reflection. Nathan and Brian talk about the role that reading plays in their personal development and leadership journeys.
Takeaways:
- Leadership requires constant practice and perseverance. Embrace the journey, not just the destination.
- Know when to let go of something that no longer serves you to make room for new opportunities.
- Embrace your uniqueness and lead authentically, just as Steve Martin did with his comedy.
- Books can be a powerful tool for growth and reflection. Look beyond the surface and find the leadership lessons in the stories you read.
Resources Mentioned:
- Born Standing Up: A Comic’s Life by Steve Martin
-
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
Visit us on the web atleadershipvisionconsultingcom to
learn more about what we do.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Friberg and in today's
episode I am joined by BrianShubring, and this podcast
(00:24):
didn't quite go as we hadplanned.
We had originally set out todiscuss a whole bunch of books
that we've each read over thepast year and how they've
influenced our leadershipjourneys, but as we started
diving into one book inparticular, one of my books, I
ended up taking up most of thetime all the time talking about
this one book, born Standing Up.
(00:44):
I don't know if you've read it.
It's a comic's life by SteveMartin.
It's absolutely fascinating.
It's a book that I read back inApril that it's a memoir, I
guess, and it explores SteveMartin's rise to fame as a
comedian.
There's really three lessons inparticular.
One it's the idea of practice,that you really have to put in
some intentional practice toachieve whatever you want and
(01:05):
appreciate the journey.
Number two is that sometimesit's okay to shift gears and to
try something different.
And number three is the idea ofjust being uniquely you.
So Brian and I really got intothis discussion.
It took up all of the time, andso we're saving Brian's book
review or reviews for anothertime.
(01:30):
And I would really encourage youthat, if you're not currently
reading something, to find agood book to read and it doesn't
even have to be aboutleadership specifically, or
teamwork or communication oranything like that.
I encourage you that, as you'relistening to this episode today
, just reflect on not only theleadership lessons in this book,
but in whatever book you'rereading, even if it's a novel,
what sort of leadership lessonsor parenting lessons or teamwork
(01:52):
lessons or whatever it is,might be present.
Look beyond the obvious andthink about maybe some of those
more subtle lessons that youmight be learning along the way
that could shape your life indifferent ways, shape your
leadership, help you to become amore empathetic, compassionate
person in general.
And if you'd like somerecommendations for books, you
(02:15):
can reach out to me on socialmedia, drop a line in the show
notes or blog posts.
You can also send an email toNathan at
leadershipvisionconsultingcom.
And I'd be really curious, sinceSteve Martin is a well-known
celebrity, I'd be curious whatafter you listen to this.
If you have any thoughts onkind of his life story, I guess
so, and if you don't knowanything about it, let's get
(02:38):
into it.
Well, brian, welcome to the2025 Leadership Vision Podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Thanks, nathan, I feel welcome to the 2025
Leadership Vision Podcast.
Thanks, nathan, I feel welcometo the 2025 Leadership Vision
Podcast.
I'm more welcome on a podcastin a while.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Awesome.
This is the first one thatwe're recording of this year and
this will actually probably goout relatively soon from when
we're recording this.
And this came about becauseBrian and I were going to
interview an author who hadwritten this book that we both
really liked.
The author had to rescheduleand we were like, well, what if
(03:11):
we just did a little impromptupodcast about books that we've
read in the last year, whichones had a big impact on us,
which ones might be applicableto leadership and why I have?
Maybe I'll share the link to myGoodreads account.
You can see all the varied andvast different types of books
(03:31):
that I read, everything fromMalcolm Gladwell to Adam Grant
to.
I read a book by Mark Morrisabout castles, their history and
evolution in medieval Britain.
I read Real castles, realcastles.
It's fascinating.
We're not going to talk aboutthat book today.
There's a few books on herethat I read to my children.
(03:51):
When you track your books likethis, it's fun to look back on
these books and remember whereyou were in time and place when
you read them.
Remember what you're goingthrough.
I read probably a third of mybooks.
I read actual physical books.
Another third is on my Kindle.
(04:11):
And then that last third issome combination of physical,
kindle or audio books and I'malways highlighting well, not
the library books or takingnotes or doing something.
Well, not the library books ortaking notes or doing something.
And of all these books I read,there's just even the novels,
even just the fun kind of quoteunquote books you'd find at an
airport kiosk.
(04:32):
There's just something that.
I get out of them and often Iwill tell Brian and Linda hey, I
just read this book aboutcastles and did you know?
And this is really fun thing.
And then I try to make anapplication to leadership or
parenting or something thatwe're working on.
Brian, what is your before weget into, like, the review?
(04:52):
We've talked about this a lot.
Whenever you go on vacation,you take a giant stack of books.
What is your process of findingbooks, of curating books, of
deciding?
These are the five books I'mgoing to take with me?
Are you someone that has like arunning list of books?
Do you use an app or somethinglike Goodreads?
How do you find the stuff toput into your mind and digest
(05:13):
and sometimes read two, three,four times and like, actually
you know, process and apply?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Interesting.
So I tried to upload all mystuff into Goodreads over the
holiday and it didn't get thatfar.
It didn't work.
I got started.
This is not just an auto plugand play Okay Process.
Nathan, you are correct, I am areader.
I've been a reader for a longtime.
I do also acknowledge that inhigh school, I think, I
(05:42):
successfully read one book untilthe age of 18.
So there's something about mebeing a reformed not reader to a
reader.
I do read significantly everyday.
Um, I don't necessarily plowthrough books throughout the
year.
When I go on vacation, it istrue, I will bring a stack of
books.
I am a person that has beenknown to bring six to 10 books,
(06:04):
figuring that I can read a booka day or in a day and a half.
Wow, so I'll just like plan out.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
It's easy to do and you don't have kids you're
chasing around on vacation.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, because I am, you know, on the beach or
whatever, and I'm in a chair andI'm reading.
Yeah, that is the best way.
So I don't have running list ofbooks, which is weird because I
know when I'll be out of townand when I'm going to be reading
.
So I will often do like my bookshopping the two or three weeks
up coming to the vacation.
(06:33):
And there are two things thatdictate what books I'm choosing.
One is wherever neuroscience isat that time, I'm trying to
find the most relevantneuroscience topics that I can,
and I'll buy as many of thosebooks as possible.
So that may be a half a dozenof just neuroscience in
(06:53):
particular, and I don't reallycare what the book is about.
The second category that I willlook for is I will look for one
book that is my give me a breakbook, and that is-.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Come on, give me a break, are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, exactly, and it could be about running or sport
or something that you recommend.
Like a lot of the books I bringon vacation as my break books
are the ones that you think arelife-changing.
So there's that, and then Iwill also.
That's true.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
That sounds.
There's another, and thenthere's a fourth book Right, and
sometimes we just need to bereminded of things we already
know.
We don't have to have our mindsblown every single time we have
different expectations.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
We do.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
We do.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So neuroscience and psychology, a book that will
give me a break in the middle ofthe whole thing, and then I
will um reach for a some type ofbook on spirituality as the
last book I read in the cycle.
I look at that book as a sorbet, if you will, to cleanse my
palate from all that I've read.
(08:04):
I find that anchoring myprocess of how I read into
something that's moretranscendent, that's something
that's more like, brings me,zooms me back out into larger
meaning of things, is reallyhelpful for how I process books.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Does that make sense?
Interesting, it totally makessense.
I don't know if I should beoffended by that, but I'm not,
because I love all the booksthat I read.
One thing I did a little bitdifferently this year is I gave
myself permission to stopreading a book.
Really, I'm like, oh yeah.
If I'm like a third of the waythrough it usually it's about a
third If I'm like this is thegive me a break stuff, or like I
(08:41):
just can't follow what thisperson is saying.
I'm like you know what.
I'm not going to finish it.
Life's too short.
I listened to a bunch ofpodcasts, as you know, and often
I'll, you know, hear an authorand be like I would love to go
deeper on this one.
I have a couple other friendsout here they're smarter than me
that they're alwaysrecommending different books.
And then I have a buddy inMinneapolis.
(09:01):
He's always recommending booksto me, and so I have a gosh.
I don't even know how many onmy books to read list I have,
but I always got something.
So what Brian and I want to dowe're getting to the serious
part of this is just kind of.
I'm not going to go through allthese books, but I think we
each have a book or two that wewant to briefly touch on.
(09:23):
This is the book that, one ofthe many books that we enjoyed.
Here's kind of why, here's howit applies to our life and, as I
said earlier, I'm alwayslooking for.
How do I apply this book to mepersonally, to my parenting, and
then to my leadership,leadership?
leadership vision leadership inthe various committees and
(09:45):
extracurricular things that I'minvolved with.
Like how is this going toimpact my life in that way?
And what was funny is that thebook of the author that we were
going to interview.
I was like this is probably oneof the best parenting books
I've ever read.
And you're like it's aboutneuroscience.
What are you talking about?
And then you're like, oh, I see, I've ever read.
And you're like it's aboutneuroscience.
What are you talking about?
(10:05):
And then you're like, oh, I see.
Um, so I'm drawing a lot ofstuff from a lot of different
sources.
Well, brian, what?
if I go first and share doingthis a little bit on the fly,
and I think I probably thoughtthrough this slightly more than
you have.
Uh, cause this is my idea.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Okay, so you're ready for my book, the book I want to
share.
Give me the first one.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
You're probably gonna have more than okay.
So, uh, in april I read bornstanding up, a comic's life
which is steve martin's, I guess, autobiography that came out in
2007, okay, and this was Idon't remember.
I think I had heard someonetalking on a podcast, some
comedians talking about how thisis like an epic book that
(10:48):
everybody needs to read, or atleast every comedian.
I'm like, I'm not a comedian,but I grew up funny, I think I'm
funny but I grew up listeningto like steve martin's records
my dad had them and then, ofcourse, watching his movies in
you know, the 90s.
And then, uh, that new showthat he's in Only Murders in the
(11:08):
Building, and I was like SteveMartin, there's someone I
haven't thought about for a longtime.
So I got his book and it wasfascinating to me how much I
didn't know about Steve Martin.
So a couple of quick highlightsabout the book and then I'll I
have like three points of what Itook away from it.
So Steve Martin got his startat Disneyland in like the little
magic shop doing his thing, andthen, uh, he essentially toiled
(11:32):
for like 10 years and then Idon't remember the exact dates,
but in the seventies he wasessentially I don't even know
the comparison the Taylor Swift,the Kevin Hart, the Beyonce,
the essentially the biggestperformer in the world.
That at that time, like, he waseven bigger than the Beatles,
(11:53):
bigger than the Beatles were inthis.
In the sixties he was giant, hewas selling out these huge
arenas at a time when nobody wasdoing that and his style of
comedy was just totally absurd,like today.
It's like very calm, likeessentially a lot of like SNL
stuff, what became SNL.
(12:14):
But at the time people are likewhat is he doing?
It was positive, it was upbeat.
All the comedy at that time waslike very satirical, very like
negative political stuff withVietnam and Watergate and all
that and he was kind of thisbreath of fresh air, giant,
giant star.
And then in like 1980, he's likeI'm not doing that anymore, I'm
(12:36):
going to start making moviesand his movie career is largely
successful, but he had a bunchof kind of hits and misses, hits
and misses largely successful,but he had a bunch of kind of
hits and misses, hits and misses.
And he also, I think, has aGrammy for banjo music.
What Playing the banjo is likea big part of his act.
I didn't know that and what'sso side note is that I now see
(12:58):
in my dad some of my dad's senseof humor is similar to Steve
Martin's, in the same way that,like me and my friends have
similar senses of humor to likeI don't know, like Adam Sandler
or some of the like comediansthat that we were watching when
we were kind of in thoseimpressionable, impressionable
years.
So my three takeaways oh and,by the way, there's a great two
(13:20):
part documentary on Steve Martin, on Apple uh, apple plus uh.
Any questions on that before Imove on to my three points?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
No no, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
It was fascinating.
So my three points areleadership takes practice and
embrace the journey, not justthe destination.
That's one.
I'll go back and elaborate onthese.
Number two is it's okay to walkaway and try something new.
And number three is embracingyour uniqueness.
And I want to start with numberthree because one of the things
I found so fascinating aboutSteve Martin and I think, a lot
(13:53):
of artists or actors or peoplethat are now successful
sometimes it's hard to rememberthat they weren't always that
way and he found a way to saythis is who I am.
This is what I think is funny.
This is what I think is goingto bring joy and beauty and
(14:16):
brilliance, use some leadership,vision, language into the world
.
And I'm going to stick withthis.
He figured out, like, what histhing was and he went with it.
He didn't go and in the book ittalks about early on, especially
like he was on the SmotherBrothers comedy hour and he was
trying to play these other bitsand be these other people and
(14:38):
realize I just need to be me, Ineed to do my style and I think
about myself in that way, tryingto emulate other leaders, I see
, or other parents, I see thatit's just not going to work.
Leaders, I see, or otherparents I see that it's just not
going to work, and so I thinkthat's something that we talk
about so often at LeadershipVision of, like, what is who are
you?
How do you embrace that andbecome more of who you are to
(15:01):
then use that as a launchpad towhatever, whatever it is that
you know you want to do?
So there's only one, you, brian, so don't try to someone else.
I don't know.
Do you want to feed back any ofthis, or should I just go to
the next one?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well, when you told me that you're reading the book,
instead of buying the book, Iwent to YouTube and watched a
bunch of Steve Martin stuff, soI'm familiar with his story,
because that's exactly what Iwas looking for was his story,
the commitment to what he knewor the type of funny he wanted
to be.
That's the part that resonatedwith me as well, Because, like
(15:36):
you said, that is about the workthat we're doing.
We're trying to encourage peopleto take the risk to go on the
inward journey to discover whothey actually are and to find
the joy and satisfaction in thatand then take the risk to
express that.
I think the risk to express ouridentity is sometimes the most
(15:56):
fearful part, more than thediscovery of who we are.
It's the expression and in aworld where we find our personal
meaning and self-acceptancerooted in what other people
think about us, to find who weare and to express that, like
what Steve Martin was doing,that's a huge risk.
(16:16):
I think it has a huge payback,not necessarily monetarily, but
in the joy and the satisfactionwith what it is that we're doing
.
I think that's part of what weare inviting people to do and
it's definitely a part of thejourney that I'm on, even still
to this point, is that full andauthentic embracing of who we
(16:37):
are.
And I love stories like SteveMartin where you have a sense of
not just a desire to connectwith who the person is, but then
to kind of cast that out intothe future and follow that dream
wherever that dream is going.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah and that ties into my second point here about
it's okay to walk away and trysomething new that he realized
that the success and the fame ofbeing the stand-up comedian
that he was, it wasn'tfulfilling him.
He was like I think I've takenthis as far as I can go, so he
essentially walked away and he,you know, went into acting and
(17:13):
writing and music, as I talkedabout.
You know he found great successin that too.
But that that jump into theunknown, I think, is something
that you know.
So many of us, even if we're ina bad situation, we're like
(17:52):
well, I'd rather struggle withthe thing that I know we're like
well, I'd rather yourself, inthe ways that I think people do
Anything that resonate with youon that point.
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Focus on fulfillment, that's the phrase.
I think that another invitationfor all of us is to pay
attention to what is fulfillingus and pay attention to what's
bringing us energy, and to payattention to what's bringing us
(18:27):
life, because the focus onfulfillment is actually a way
that we can honor the verynature of how it is that we're
wired and the very nature of whowe are nature of how it is that
we're wired, in the very natureof who we are.
Sometimes our indicators thatwe're kind of veering off path
is when we're doing things thataren't fulfilling, when we're
focusing on what is meaninglessinstead of meaningful and we
don't pay attention to our ownnatural body, our psyche, our
intuition reminding us hey, thisis costing us a lot of energy,
(18:49):
this is not that fulfilling.
I'm not really that happy.
Those are all indicators thatare helping us understand if
we're on the right path or not.
So that's what I'm hearing isfocus on fulfillment and pay
attention to what the next stepsare and not maybe the
fulfillment that you'reexpecting a year from now.
But what do we have today?
What do we have in this moment?
The fulfilling nature of whateach day brings, I think, is
(19:13):
inexhaustible.
We just don't often explorethat.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
And the challenge, I think, is how do you find
metrics or indicators?
Cause it's easy, if you'remaking a lot of money at
something, to be like, oh thisis great, this is fulfilling,
but you know, in his case itactually wasn't.
So what like?
What are the indicators?
And that's, I think, what youknow.
People can only identify forthemselves as like oh, this is
bringing me fulfillment and joy,whatever.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
That point you mentioned about indicators is
also really important, because Ithink that some of the
difficult work that individualshave that they could be doing is
to ask themselves what are theindications that I am being
fulfilled?
What is bringing me joy andhappiness?
When have I rebounded from sometype of struggle, a tragedy or
(19:59):
challenge?
Those are all indicators towhat it is that we need to find
fulfillment in our life, andsometimes people shy away from
even the word need, because whenwe ask people, well, what do
you need in this situation,that's us saying what are the
indicators that are leading metowards living a more fulfilled
(20:19):
life, whatever that looks like?
Because if you think about it,nathan, the focusing on
fulfillment, letting ourindicators align and guide us,
it's going to be our own uniquepathway and guide us.
It's going to be our own uniquepathway and it's going to be
very rare for us to find someoneelse in this world that's
living a similar path or asimilar life than us.
Just like with this book, withSteve Martin being a trailblazer
(20:40):
, we each are that in our ownsense, completely.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Which kind of leads to the last point.
Here is just this idea ofanything worth achieving takes
practice.
It takes really embracing thestruggle, the messy middle, the
journey of the thing.
As I said, he kind of got astart at Disneyland.
Not kind of he did.
He got a start at Disneyland,so it's not familiar.
(21:05):
His act is a combination of kindof these weird, terrible magic
tricks music.
If you've ever been toDisneyland it's I forget the
name of the place, it's stillthere, but it's like a little
magic shop where you can go inand you know he would have this
whole bit with like doingballoon animals that were just,
it was just so silly and didn'tmake any sense.
(21:27):
He has this one bit that Ishowed to my son, who thinks
it's hilarious.
He's like now is the famousglove into dove trick, and so he
takes a glove, is in his hand,he throws it up in the air and
the glove and plummets, hits theground, then just looks at the
audience, says okay, and now formy next trick.
(21:47):
It's like what that's so sillyand goofy, but people loved it
and so he toiled.
I think it was like 10 years ofjust going to these little
teeny, tiny comedy stores,comedy shops this is after the
Disneyland experience and he waslike in these small little like
groups of, like actors andthings, and he just kind of
toiled and practiced and keptgoing and kept going.
(22:09):
But he the part that makes this,uh, I think, applicable to us
is that he took notes.
He took, he studied what he wasdoing.
He went back and say, well, whydidn't this trick work?
Or what if I did it this way?
Or what if I, you know, came inand said this instead, like he
was actually kind of studying it.
And I think sometimes you know,you and I talk about running a
(22:30):
lot it's one thing to go on a 10mile tempo run and be like,
well, that sucked and forgetabout it.
It's another thing to say, well, why did that suck?
Well, I didn't sleep, I didn'thave much to eat, I didn't
really care, like da, da, da, da, da.
And so that's what he did.
And I think, like you know, howcan we learn from that?
To say every moment is anopportunity to learn something.
How was that interaction withyour spouse this morning?
(22:52):
How was that interaction withyour colleague?
Was that email sent in the waythat I wanted it to be sent and
just practice and practice andnext time get a little bit
better at sending that email.
Next time, when you know yourpartner does something that
you've asked them not to do ahundred times, maybe take a
breath before responding.
I'm sure you never experiencedany of that, brian, or ever.
(23:14):
Think about using littlemoments as an opportunity to
practice getting better atwhatever it is that you're doing
right.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Practice that is a word that is in our vocabulary,
here at Leadership VisionTattooed on our forearms
Practice, the intentionalpractice, the deliberate
practice, purposeful practice,all kinds of practice.
Practice in the playgroundsyeah, I cannot overemphasize how
(23:41):
common this idea of practicecomes up.
I think most practice that weare participating in during life
we are unaware of we're unawareof the practice that we're
repeating over and over again.
We're sometimes unaware of wherethe practice takes place.
We sometimes get frustratedwhen we practice things that
(24:02):
it's not working right becausethe place is wrong, and then
we're surprised in othersituations when we are
practicing something in theright situation and things just
grow like crazy.
I think practice is really,really important.
I don't believe in repetitionas the best product for practice
.
I believe that objectivefeedback is the best product for
(24:24):
practice If you're trying togrow or trying to accomplish
something.
I was reading something theother day and I can't remember
exactly where it came from, butwe've all heard the phrase
practice makes perfect, and thisauthor was saying practice
doesn't make perfect, practicemakes permanent.
And that practice makespermanent couldn't be more true,
even when it comes to how thebrain tends to shape and form
(24:49):
and wire itself.
It's like the neurons that firetogether stay together, the
neurons that work together.
They are binding together,they're creating those pathways.
Now, whether that practice ispositive or not, that's up for
discussion, but practice makespatterns permanent.
Why that's important here isbecause I think in our story
(25:12):
about Steve Martin is that therewas the repetition of practice,
there was the study of practiceand he was getting feedback on
his practice from audiences andother people that he was working
with, and that feedback pieceis the most important.
Where is it that we're able topractice and get objective
feedback on the performancethat's happening in the practice
(25:32):
and we're looking at ourprogress being measured in how
we're growing and not how ourpractice is leading to
perfection, which I think reallymesses up what our values are
and what our expectations areOver and over again.
I believe it's important to getthe practice in, to familiarize
(25:53):
ourselves the way we think, theway we feel, with what our
performance is actually lookinglike performance loosely but
also to recognize that sometimeswe need to unpractice certain
ways that we do things so thatwe can learn new things.
Now that word unpractice came tome maybe a week ago, I think it
came to me over holiday break.
(26:13):
I was doing a meditation andthe meditation teacher
introduced this word ofunpractice as a way to gently
unfold some of the patterns thatwe put together in our lives
that don't lead to fulfillment,and just the idea of unpractice
to me as an athlete, really madesense, because sometimes the
(26:34):
only ways that we can break someof our bad habits is through
unpracticing the things that ledus to the bad patterns.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, giving ourselvespermission to unlearn is saying
to someone you know what Notdoing things the way that you
normally do them might take sometime.
(26:55):
It may be uncomfortable in themoment, but it's important for
us to recognize that the currentpatterning of our practice may
lead to some outcomes that werenot necessarily going to result
in fulfillment.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, and that's hard .
And I'm curious if any of ourlisteners are like me in that
they see a change they want tomake in their life and so they
start down this path, and thenthe practice isn't perfect, so
they screw up and they're likethrow up their hands, like, ah,
(27:31):
this is terrible, I'm screwed, Ican't do this, and they like
lose hope or give up or thinkall is lost, and that's just
part of it.
I mean, I wonder how many SteveMartins were out there who just
gave up at any of the pointswhere he could have and are now
doing some other random job.
(27:52):
Not that we should look up tohim as a I don't know be like
Steve Martin, but just that ideaof what the lesson can we learn
and how often do we forget thatunlearning is part of the
process.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Well, the lesson is universal.
I think the lesson is payattention to your practice and
pay attention to the life thatyou're gaining or, in our
conversation, the fulfillmentthat you're receiving from the
process of practice.
Number two don't be surprisedwhen you get to an intersection
and you have options.
I believe that there are manyintersections in life that would
(28:27):
that we come to an intersectionwhere opportunity, practice,
fulfillment, frustration kind ofcome to a head and we're given
the chance to try something new.
That intersection may be anintersection that we create,
maybe an intersection we didn'tsee coming and surprises us, but
we're given a choice andrecognize that we're there and
some of the options are.
We can continue to go forwardwith what we're doing, like in
(28:49):
the case of Steve Martin andmany of us who are listening to
this podcast.
You'll recognize that there aremany intersections at life.
At those intersections there areprobably many people that were
there, many voices, manyinfluences that were begging us
to go one direction or another.
But that choice isfundamentally up to us.
So what it means, I think, isfor us to really lean into this
(29:13):
idea that, whatever it is thatwe're doing, that it's an
opportunity for us to grow.
It's an opportunity for us tofind more meaning and
significance and belonging inour life and to also be willing
to practice something new, evenif that new practice is to
unlearn something that actuallygot us there.
Because we know consistencywith whatever we're doing is
(29:36):
where a lot of our greatestpotential is going to be
realized is through anavailability to whatever the
challenge is and to always beopen to appropriate feedback,
objective feedback, somebodywatching from the outside who's
making observations on how we'redoing, the joy that's coming to
(29:56):
our life or the repeatedfrustration.
Just sometimes holding up amirror to someone is all that's
needed for them to realize yep,I'm not as fulfilled as I
thought.
I think a change is needed.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah, for sure, brian .
I wasn't planning on talkingabout my book for this long.
We'll get into yours next weekas we.
I think we're going to do atwo-parter here.
Yeah, it's going to have to be.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Any final thoughts?
Brian, I think one of thetakeaways from today's
conversation is to really goback to the beginning, when
Nathan and I talked about therole that books play in our life
.
The role that books play in ourlife is they play the role of a
tool or a guidepost, andsometimes the books that we read
(30:37):
are tools that help open up newpossibility and new potential
to the way that we think or whatwe're practicing.
Sometimes the books that weread serve as guideposts and an
affirmation that we're in theright place, that we're doing
the right things, and sometimesthe books that we read cause us
to press pause and to askourselves how am I living?
(31:00):
Am I living in relationship theway that I want?
And if I continue to live thisway, what's going to happen to
me and those I love?
I know that throughout the year, nathan and I have several
conversations about the booksthat we're reading, how it's
impacting our lives and whateverreason that you read a book, or
whatever it is that you use asa tool to help your growth.
(31:22):
My invitation is that we leaninto that tool, learn what the
tool is there to teach us andleverage the opportunities that
there are to grow.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Brian, that's great.
I love that.
Thank you for listening to mybook review, but I affirmed
through my YouTube videowatching yes, you did.
I appreciate that.
Well, brian, I'm excited tohear your book review next time
Me too.
All right, thanks, brian.
I'm excited to hear your bookreview next time Me too.
All right, thanks, brian.
Wow, that was interesting.
Thank you for listening to theLeadership Vision Podcast, our
(31:54):
show helping you build positiveteam culture.
If you found value from thispodcast episode or any of our
other material that was sent outin the past, we would love it
if you could share it withsomeone that you think also
might enjoy it.
Please subscribe to the podcast, sign up for our free email
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perhaps, if you have questionsabout anything related to your
(32:16):
leadership or you maybe justkind of feel stuck and want a
sounding board, reach out to us,connect at leadership vision
consultingcom.
We love talking to people inour community.
Just sometimes it just maybe anemail or a different
perspective can really help tokind of get things unstuck.
I'm Nathan Freeberg and, onbehalf of our entire team,
(32:36):
thanks for listening.
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
Visit us on the web atleadershipvisionconsultingcom to
learn more about what we do.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Friberg and in today's
episode I am joined by BrianShubring, and this podcast
(00:24):
didn't quite go as we hadplanned.
We had originally set out todiscuss a whole bunch of books
that we've each read over thepast year and how they've
influenced our leadershipjourneys, but as we started
diving into one book inparticular, one of my books, I
ended up taking up most of thetime all the time talking about
this one book, born Standing Up.
(00:44):
I don't know if you've read it.
It's a comic's life by SteveMartin.
It's absolutely fascinating.
It's a book that I read back inApril that it's a memoir, I
guess, and it explores SteveMartin's rise to fame as a
comedian.
There's really three lessons inparticular.
One it's the idea of practice,that you really have to put in
some intentional practice toachieve whatever you want and
(01:05):
appreciate the journey.
Number two is that sometimesit's okay to shift gears and to
try something different.
And number three is the idea ofjust being uniquely you.
So Brian and I really got intothis discussion.
It took up all of the time, andso we're saving Brian's book
review or reviews for anothertime.
(01:30):
And I would really encourage youthat, if you're not currently
reading something, to find agood book to read and it doesn't
even have to be aboutleadership specifically, or
teamwork or communication oranything like that.
I encourage you that, as you'relistening to this episode today
, just reflect on not only theleadership lessons in this book,
but in whatever book you'rereading, even if it's a novel,
what sort of leadership lessonsor parenting lessons or teamwork
(01:52):
lessons or whatever it is,might be present.
Look beyond the obvious andthink about maybe some of those
more subtle lessons that youmight be learning along the way
that could shape your life indifferent ways, shape your
leadership, help you to become amore empathetic, compassionate
person in general.
And if you'd like somerecommendations for books, you
(02:15):
can reach out to me on socialmedia, drop a line in the show
notes or blog posts.
You can also send an email toNathan at
leadershipvisionconsultingcom.
And I'd be really curious, sinceSteve Martin is a well-known
celebrity, I'd be curious whatafter you listen to this.
If you have any thoughts onkind of his life story, I guess
so, and if you don't knowanything about it, let's get
(02:38):
into it.
Well, brian, welcome to the2025 Leadership Vision Podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Thanks, nathan, I feel welcome to the 2025
Leadership Vision Podcast.
Thanks, nathan, I feel welcometo the 2025 Leadership Vision
Podcast.
I'm more welcome on a podcastin a while.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Awesome.
This is the first one thatwe're recording of this year and
this will actually probably goout relatively soon from when
we're recording this.
And this came about becauseBrian and I were going to
interview an author who hadwritten this book that we both
really liked.
The author had to rescheduleand we were like, well, what if
(03:11):
we just did a little impromptupodcast about books that we've
read in the last year, whichones had a big impact on us,
which ones might be applicableto leadership and why I have?
Maybe I'll share the link to myGoodreads account.
You can see all the varied andvast different types of books
(03:31):
that I read, everything fromMalcolm Gladwell to Adam Grant
to.
I read a book by Mark Morrisabout castles, their history and
evolution in medieval Britain.
I read Real castles, realcastles.
It's fascinating.
We're not going to talk aboutthat book today.
There's a few books on herethat I read to my children.
(03:51):
When you track your books likethis, it's fun to look back on
these books and remember whereyou were in time and place when
you read them.
Remember what you're goingthrough.
I read probably a third of mybooks.
I read actual physical books.
Another third is on my Kindle.
(04:11):
And then that last third issome combination of physical,
kindle or audio books and I'malways highlighting well, not
the library books or takingnotes or doing something.
Well, not the library books ortaking notes or doing something.
And of all these books I read,there's just even the novels,
even just the fun kind of quoteunquote books you'd find at an
airport kiosk.
(04:32):
There's just something that.
I get out of them and often Iwill tell Brian and Linda hey, I
just read this book aboutcastles and did you know?
And this is really fun thing.
And then I try to make anapplication to leadership or
parenting or something thatwe're working on.
Brian, what is your before weget into, like, the review?
(04:52):
We've talked about this a lot.
Whenever you go on vacation,you take a giant stack of books.
What is your process of findingbooks, of curating books, of
deciding?
These are the five books I'mgoing to take with me?
Are you someone that has like arunning list of books?
Do you use an app or somethinglike Goodreads?
How do you find the stuff toput into your mind and digest
(05:13):
and sometimes read two, three,four times and like, actually
you know, process and apply?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Interesting.
So I tried to upload all mystuff into Goodreads over the
holiday and it didn't get thatfar.
It didn't work.
I got started.
This is not just an auto plugand play Okay Process.
Nathan, you are correct, I am areader.
I've been a reader for a longtime.
I do also acknowledge that inhigh school, I think, I
(05:42):
successfully read one book untilthe age of 18.
So there's something about mebeing a reformed not reader to a
reader.
I do read significantly everyday.
Um, I don't necessarily plowthrough books throughout the
year.
When I go on vacation, it istrue, I will bring a stack of
books.
I am a person that has beenknown to bring six to 10 books,
(06:04):
figuring that I can read a booka day or in a day and a half.
Wow, so I'll just like plan out.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
It's easy to do and you don't have kids you're
chasing around on vacation.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, because I am, you know, on the beach or
whatever, and I'm in a chair andI'm reading.
Yeah, that is the best way.
So I don't have running list ofbooks, which is weird because I
know when I'll be out of townand when I'm going to be reading
.
So I will often do like my bookshopping the two or three weeks
up coming to the vacation.
(06:33):
And there are two things thatdictate what books I'm choosing.
One is wherever neuroscience isat that time, I'm trying to
find the most relevantneuroscience topics that I can,
and I'll buy as many of thosebooks as possible.
So that may be a half a dozenof just neuroscience in
(06:53):
particular, and I don't reallycare what the book is about.
The second category that I willlook for is I will look for one
book that is my give me a breakbook, and that is-.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Come on, give me a break, are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, exactly, and it could be about running or sport
or something that you recommend.
Like a lot of the books I bringon vacation as my break books
are the ones that you think arelife-changing.
So there's that, and then Iwill also.
That's true.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
That sounds.
There's another, and thenthere's a fourth book Right, and
sometimes we just need to bereminded of things we already
know.
We don't have to have our mindsblown every single time we have
different expectations.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
We do.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
We do.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So neuroscience and psychology, a book that will
give me a break in the middle ofthe whole thing, and then I
will um reach for a some type ofbook on spirituality as the
last book I read in the cycle.
I look at that book as a sorbet, if you will, to cleanse my
palate from all that I've read.
(08:04):
I find that anchoring myprocess of how I read into
something that's moretranscendent, that's something
that's more like, brings me,zooms me back out into larger
meaning of things, is reallyhelpful for how I process books.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Does that make sense?
Interesting, it totally makessense.
I don't know if I should beoffended by that, but I'm not,
because I love all the booksthat I read.
One thing I did a little bitdifferently this year is I gave
myself permission to stopreading a book.
Really, I'm like, oh yeah.
If I'm like a third of the waythrough it usually it's about a
third If I'm like this is thegive me a break stuff, or like I
(08:41):
just can't follow what thisperson is saying.
I'm like you know what.
I'm not going to finish it.
Life's too short.
I listened to a bunch ofpodcasts, as you know, and often
I'll, you know, hear an authorand be like I would love to go
deeper on this one.
I have a couple other friendsout here they're smarter than me
that they're alwaysrecommending different books.
And then I have a buddy inMinneapolis.
(09:01):
He's always recommending booksto me, and so I have a gosh.
I don't even know how many onmy books to read list I have,
but I always got something.
So what Brian and I want to dowe're getting to the serious
part of this is just kind of.
I'm not going to go through allthese books, but I think we
each have a book or two that wewant to briefly touch on.
(09:23):
This is the book that, one ofthe many books that we enjoyed.
Here's kind of why, here's howit applies to our life and, as I
said earlier, I'm alwayslooking for.
How do I apply this book to mepersonally, to my parenting, and
then to my leadership,leadership?
leadership vision leadership inthe various committees and
(09:45):
extracurricular things that I'minvolved with.
Like how is this going toimpact my life in that way?
And what was funny is that thebook of the author that we were
going to interview.
I was like this is probably oneof the best parenting books
I've ever read.
And you're like it's aboutneuroscience.
What are you talking about?
And then you're like, oh, I see, I've ever read.
And you're like it's aboutneuroscience.
What are you talking about?
(10:05):
And then you're like, oh, I see.
Um, so I'm drawing a lot ofstuff from a lot of different
sources.
Well, brian, what?
if I go first and share doingthis a little bit on the fly,
and I think I probably thoughtthrough this slightly more than
you have.
Uh, cause this is my idea.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Okay, so you're ready for my book, the book I want to
share.
Give me the first one.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
You're probably gonna have more than okay.
So, uh, in april I read bornstanding up, a comic's life
which is steve martin's, I guess, autobiography that came out in
2007, okay, and this was Idon't remember.
I think I had heard someonetalking on a podcast, some
comedians talking about how thisis like an epic book that
(10:48):
everybody needs to read, or atleast every comedian.
I'm like, I'm not a comedian,but I grew up funny, I think I'm
funny but I grew up listeningto like steve martin's records
my dad had them and then, ofcourse, watching his movies in
you know, the 90s.
And then, uh, that new showthat he's in Only Murders in the
(11:08):
Building, and I was like SteveMartin, there's someone I
haven't thought about for a longtime.
So I got his book and it wasfascinating to me how much I
didn't know about Steve Martin.
So a couple of quick highlightsabout the book and then I'll I
have like three points of what Itook away from it.
So Steve Martin got his startat Disneyland in like the little
magic shop doing his thing, andthen, uh, he essentially toiled
(11:32):
for like 10 years and then Idon't remember the exact dates,
but in the seventies he wasessentially I don't even know
the comparison the Taylor Swift,the Kevin Hart, the Beyonce,
the essentially the biggestperformer in the world.
That at that time, like, he waseven bigger than the Beatles,
(11:53):
bigger than the Beatles were inthis.
In the sixties he was giant, hewas selling out these huge
arenas at a time when nobody wasdoing that and his style of
comedy was just totally absurd,like today.
It's like very calm, likeessentially a lot of like SNL
stuff, what became SNL.
(12:14):
But at the time people are likewhat is he doing?
It was positive, it was upbeat.
All the comedy at that time waslike very satirical, very like
negative political stuff withVietnam and Watergate and all
that and he was kind of thisbreath of fresh air, giant,
giant star.
And then in like 1980, he's likeI'm not doing that anymore, I'm
(12:36):
going to start making moviesand his movie career is largely
successful, but he had a bunchof kind of hits and misses, hits
and misses largely successful,but he had a bunch of kind of
hits and misses, hits and misses.
And he also, I think, has aGrammy for banjo music.
What Playing the banjo is likea big part of his act.
I didn't know that and what'sso side note is that I now see
(12:58):
in my dad some of my dad's senseof humor is similar to Steve
Martin's, in the same way that,like me and my friends have
similar senses of humor to likeI don't know, like Adam Sandler
or some of the like comediansthat that we were watching when
we were kind of in thoseimpressionable, impressionable
years.
So my three takeaways oh and,by the way, there's a great two
(13:20):
part documentary on Steve Martin, on Apple uh, apple plus uh.
Any questions on that before Imove on to my three points?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
No no, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
It was fascinating.
So my three points areleadership takes practice and
embrace the journey, not justthe destination.
That's one.
I'll go back and elaborate onthese.
Number two is it's okay to walkaway and try something new.
And number three is embracingyour uniqueness.
And I want to start with numberthree because one of the things
I found so fascinating aboutSteve Martin and I think, a lot
(13:53):
of artists or actors or peoplethat are now successful
sometimes it's hard to rememberthat they weren't always that
way and he found a way to saythis is who I am.
This is what I think is funny.
This is what I think is goingto bring joy and beauty and
(14:16):
brilliance, use some leadership,vision, language into the world
.
And I'm going to stick withthis.
He figured out, like, what histhing was and he went with it.
He didn't go and in the book ittalks about early on, especially
like he was on the SmotherBrothers comedy hour and he was
trying to play these other bitsand be these other people and
(14:38):
realize I just need to be me, Ineed to do my style and I think
about myself in that way, tryingto emulate other leaders, I see
, or other parents, I see thatit's just not going to work.
Leaders, I see, or otherparents I see that it's just not
going to work, and so I thinkthat's something that we talk
about so often at LeadershipVision of, like, what is who are
you?
How do you embrace that andbecome more of who you are to
(15:01):
then use that as a launchpad towhatever, whatever it is that
you know you want to do?
So there's only one, you, brian, so don't try to someone else.
I don't know.
Do you want to feed back any ofthis, or should I just go to
the next one?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well, when you told me that you're reading the book,
instead of buying the book, Iwent to YouTube and watched a
bunch of Steve Martin stuff, soI'm familiar with his story,
because that's exactly what Iwas looking for was his story,
the commitment to what he knewor the type of funny he wanted
to be.
That's the part that resonatedwith me as well, Because, like
(15:36):
you said, that is about the workthat we're doing.
We're trying to encourage peopleto take the risk to go on the
inward journey to discover whothey actually are and to find
the joy and satisfaction in thatand then take the risk to
express that.
I think the risk to express ouridentity is sometimes the most
(15:56):
fearful part, more than thediscovery of who we are.
It's the expression and in aworld where we find our personal
meaning and self-acceptancerooted in what other people
think about us, to find who weare and to express that, like
what Steve Martin was doing,that's a huge risk.
(16:16):
I think it has a huge payback,not necessarily monetarily, but
in the joy and the satisfactionwith what it is that we're doing
.
I think that's part of what weare inviting people to do and
it's definitely a part of thejourney that I'm on, even still
to this point, is that full andauthentic embracing of who we
(16:37):
are.
And I love stories like SteveMartin where you have a sense of
not just a desire to connectwith who the person is, but then
to kind of cast that out intothe future and follow that dream
wherever that dream is going.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah and that ties into my second point here about
it's okay to walk away and trysomething new that he realized
that the success and the fame ofbeing the stand-up comedian
that he was, it wasn'tfulfilling him.
He was like I think I've takenthis as far as I can go, so he
essentially walked away and he,you know, went into acting and
(17:13):
writing and music, as I talkedabout.
You know he found great successin that too.
But that that jump into theunknown, I think, is something
that you know.
So many of us, even if we're ina bad situation, we're like
(17:52):
well, I'd rather struggle withthe thing that I know we're like
well, I'd rather yourself, inthe ways that I think people do
Anything that resonate with youon that point.
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Focus on fulfillment, that's the phrase.
I think that another invitationfor all of us is to pay
attention to what is fulfillingus and pay attention to what's
bringing us energy, and to payattention to what's bringing us
(18:27):
life, because the focus onfulfillment is actually a way
that we can honor the verynature of how it is that we're
wired and the very nature of whowe are nature of how it is that
we're wired, in the very natureof who we are.
Sometimes our indicators thatwe're kind of veering off path
is when we're doing things thataren't fulfilling, when we're
focusing on what is meaninglessinstead of meaningful and we
don't pay attention to our ownnatural body, our psyche, our
intuition reminding us hey, thisis costing us a lot of energy,
(18:49):
this is not that fulfilling.
I'm not really that happy.
Those are all indicators thatare helping us understand if
we're on the right path or not.
So that's what I'm hearing isfocus on fulfillment and pay
attention to what the next stepsare and not maybe the
fulfillment that you'reexpecting a year from now.
But what do we have today?
What do we have in this moment?
The fulfilling nature of whateach day brings, I think, is
(19:13):
inexhaustible.
We just don't often explorethat.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
And the challenge, I think, is how do you find
metrics or indicators?
Cause it's easy, if you'remaking a lot of money at
something, to be like, oh thisis great, this is fulfilling,
but you know, in his case itactually wasn't.
So what like?
What are the indicators?
And that's, I think, what youknow.
People can only identify forthemselves as like oh, this is
bringing me fulfillment and joy,whatever.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
That point you mentioned about indicators is
also really important, because Ithink that some of the
difficult work that individualshave that they could be doing is
to ask themselves what are theindications that I am being
fulfilled?
What is bringing me joy andhappiness?
When have I rebounded from sometype of struggle, a tragedy or
(19:59):
challenge?
Those are all indicators towhat it is that we need to find
fulfillment in our life, andsometimes people shy away from
even the word need, because whenwe ask people, well, what do
you need in this situation,that's us saying what are the
indicators that are leading metowards living a more fulfilled
(20:19):
life, whatever that looks like?
Because if you think about it,nathan, the focusing on
fulfillment, letting ourindicators align and guide us,
it's going to be our own uniquepathway and guide us.
It's going to be our own uniquepathway and it's going to be
very rare for us to find someoneelse in this world that's
living a similar path or asimilar life than us.
Just like with this book, withSteve Martin being a trailblazer
(20:40):
, we each are that in our ownsense, completely.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Which kind of leads to the last point.
Here is just this idea ofanything worth achieving takes
practice.
It takes really embracing thestruggle, the messy middle, the
journey of the thing.
As I said, he kind of got astart at Disneyland.
Not kind of he did.
He got a start at Disneyland,so it's not familiar.
(21:05):
His act is a combination of kindof these weird, terrible magic
tricks music.
If you've ever been toDisneyland it's I forget the
name of the place, it's stillthere, but it's like a little
magic shop where you can go inand you know he would have this
whole bit with like doingballoon animals that were just,
it was just so silly and didn'tmake any sense.
(21:27):
He has this one bit that Ishowed to my son, who thinks
it's hilarious.
He's like now is the famousglove into dove trick, and so he
takes a glove, is in his hand,he throws it up in the air and
the glove and plummets, hits theground, then just looks at the
audience, says okay, and now formy next trick.
(21:47):
It's like what that's so sillyand goofy, but people loved it
and so he toiled.
I think it was like 10 years ofjust going to these little
teeny, tiny comedy stores,comedy shops this is after the
Disneyland experience and he waslike in these small little like
groups of, like actors andthings, and he just kind of
toiled and practiced and keptgoing and kept going.
(22:09):
But he the part that makes this,uh, I think, applicable to us
is that he took notes.
He took, he studied what he wasdoing.
He went back and say, well, whydidn't this trick work?
Or what if I did it this way?
Or what if I, you know, came inand said this instead, like he
was actually kind of studying it.
And I think sometimes you know,you and I talk about running a
(22:30):
lot it's one thing to go on a 10mile tempo run and be like,
well, that sucked and forgetabout it.
It's another thing to say, well, why did that suck?
Well, I didn't sleep, I didn'thave much to eat, I didn't
really care, like da, da, da, da, da.
And so that's what he did.
And I think, like you know, howcan we learn from that?
To say every moment is anopportunity to learn something.
How was that interaction withyour spouse this morning?
(22:52):
How was that interaction withyour colleague?
Was that email sent in the waythat I wanted it to be sent and
just practice and practice andnext time get a little bit
better at sending that email.
Next time, when you know yourpartner does something that
you've asked them not to do ahundred times, maybe take a
breath before responding.
I'm sure you never experiencedany of that, brian, or ever.
(23:14):
Think about using littlemoments as an opportunity to
practice getting better atwhatever it is that you're doing
right.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Practice that is a word that is in our vocabulary,
here at Leadership VisionTattooed on our forearms
Practice, the intentionalpractice, the deliberate
practice, purposeful practice,all kinds of practice.
Practice in the playgroundsyeah, I cannot overemphasize how
(23:41):
common this idea of practicecomes up.
I think most practice that weare participating in during life
we are unaware of we're unawareof the practice that we're
repeating over and over again.
We're sometimes unaware of wherethe practice takes place.
We sometimes get frustratedwhen we practice things that
(24:02):
it's not working right becausethe place is wrong, and then
we're surprised in othersituations when we are
practicing something in theright situation and things just
grow like crazy.
I think practice is really,really important.
I don't believe in repetitionas the best product for practice
.
I believe that objectivefeedback is the best product for
(24:24):
practice If you're trying togrow or trying to accomplish
something.
I was reading something theother day and I can't remember
exactly where it came from, butwe've all heard the phrase
practice makes perfect, and thisauthor was saying practice
doesn't make perfect, practicemakes permanent.
And that practice makespermanent couldn't be more true,
even when it comes to how thebrain tends to shape and form
(24:49):
and wire itself.
It's like the neurons that firetogether stay together, the
neurons that work together.
They are binding together,they're creating those pathways.
Now, whether that practice ispositive or not, that's up for
discussion, but practice makespatterns permanent.
Why that's important here isbecause I think in our story
(25:12):
about Steve Martin is that therewas the repetition of practice,
there was the study of practiceand he was getting feedback on
his practice from audiences andother people that he was working
with, and that feedback pieceis the most important.
Where is it that we're able topractice and get objective
feedback on the performancethat's happening in the practice
(25:32):
and we're looking at ourprogress being measured in how
we're growing and not how ourpractice is leading to
perfection, which I think reallymesses up what our values are
and what our expectations areOver and over again.
I believe it's important to getthe practice in, to familiarize
(25:53):
ourselves the way we think, theway we feel, with what our
performance is actually lookinglike performance loosely but
also to recognize that sometimeswe need to unpractice certain
ways that we do things so thatwe can learn new things.
Now that word unpractice came tome maybe a week ago, I think it
came to me over holiday break.
(26:13):
I was doing a meditation andthe meditation teacher
introduced this word ofunpractice as a way to gently
unfold some of the patterns thatwe put together in our lives
that don't lead to fulfillment,and just the idea of unpractice
to me as an athlete, really madesense, because sometimes the
(26:34):
only ways that we can break someof our bad habits is through
unpracticing the things that ledus to the bad patterns.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, giving ourselvespermission to unlearn is saying
to someone you know what Notdoing things the way that you
normally do them might take sometime.
(26:55):
It may be uncomfortable in themoment, but it's important for
us to recognize that the currentpatterning of our practice may
lead to some outcomes that werenot necessarily going to result
in fulfillment.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, and that's hard .
And I'm curious if any of ourlisteners are like me in that
they see a change they want tomake in their life and so they
start down this path, and thenthe practice isn't perfect, so
they screw up and they're likethrow up their hands, like, ah,
(27:31):
this is terrible, I'm screwed, Ican't do this, and they like
lose hope or give up or thinkall is lost, and that's just
part of it.
I mean, I wonder how many SteveMartins were out there who just
gave up at any of the pointswhere he could have and are now
doing some other random job.
(27:52):
Not that we should look up tohim as a I don't know be like
Steve Martin, but just that ideaof what the lesson can we learn
and how often do we forget thatunlearning is part of the
process.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Well, the lesson is universal.
I think the lesson is payattention to your practice and
pay attention to the life thatyou're gaining or, in our
conversation, the fulfillmentthat you're receiving from the
process of practice.
Number two don't be surprisedwhen you get to an intersection
and you have options.
I believe that there are manyintersections in life that would
(28:27):
that we come to an intersectionwhere opportunity, practice,
fulfillment, frustration kind ofcome to a head and we're given
the chance to try something new.
That intersection may be anintersection that we create,
maybe an intersection we didn'tsee coming and surprises us, but
we're given a choice andrecognize that we're there and
some of the options are.
We can continue to go forwardwith what we're doing, like in
(28:49):
the case of Steve Martin andmany of us who are listening to
this podcast.
You'll recognize that there aremany intersections at life.
At those intersections there areprobably many people that were
there, many voices, manyinfluences that were begging us
to go one direction or another.
But that choice isfundamentally up to us.
So what it means, I think, isfor us to really lean into this
(29:13):
idea that, whatever it is thatwe're doing, that it's an
opportunity for us to grow.
It's an opportunity for us tofind more meaning and
significance and belonging inour life and to also be willing
to practice something new, evenif that new practice is to
unlearn something that actuallygot us there.
Because we know consistencywith whatever we're doing is
(29:36):
where a lot of our greatestpotential is going to be
realized is through anavailability to whatever the
challenge is and to always beopen to appropriate feedback,
objective feedback, somebodywatching from the outside who's
making observations on how we'redoing, the joy that's coming to
(29:56):
our life or the repeatedfrustration.
Just sometimes holding up amirror to someone is all that's
needed for them to realize yep,I'm not as fulfilled as I
thought.
I think a change is needed.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah, for sure, brian .
I wasn't planning on talkingabout my book for this long.
We'll get into yours next weekas we.
I think we're going to do atwo-parter here.
Yeah, it's going to have to be.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Any final thoughts?
Brian, I think one of thetakeaways from today's
conversation is to really goback to the beginning, when
Nathan and I talked about therole that books play in our life
.
The role that books play in ourlife is they play the role of a
tool or a guidepost, andsometimes the books that we read
(30:37):
are tools that help open up newpossibility and new potential
to the way that we think or whatwe're practicing.
Sometimes the books that weread serve as guideposts and an
affirmation that we're in theright place, that we're doing
the right things, and sometimesthe books that we read cause us
to press pause and to askourselves how am I living?
(31:00):
Am I living in relationship theway that I want?
And if I continue to live thisway, what's going to happen to
me and those I love?
I know that throughout the year, nathan and I have several
conversations about the booksthat we're reading, how it's
impacting our lives and whateverreason that you read a book, or
whatever it is that you use asa tool to help your growth.
(31:22):
My invitation is that we leaninto that tool, learn what the
tool is there to teach us andleverage the opportunities that
there are to grow.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Brian, that's great.
I love that.
Thank you for listening to mybook review, but I affirmed
through my YouTube videowatching yes, you did.
I appreciate that.
Well, brian, I'm excited tohear your book review next time
Me too.
All right, thanks, brian.
I'm excited to hear your bookreview next time Me too.
All right, thanks, brian.
Wow, that was interesting.
Thank you for listening to theLeadership Vision Podcast, our
(31:54):
show helping you build positiveteam culture.
If you found value from thispodcast episode or any of our
other material that was sent outin the past, we would love it
if you could share it withsomeone that you think also
might enjoy it.
Please subscribe to the podcast, sign up for our free email
newsletter, follow us on all thesocials and, most importantly,
perhaps, if you have questionsabout anything related to your
(32:16):
leadership or you maybe justkind of feel stuck and want a
sounding board, reach out to us,connect at leadership vision
consultingcom.
We love talking to people inour community.
Just sometimes it just maybe anemail or a different
perspective can really help tokind of get things unstuck.
I'm Nathan Freeberg and, onbehalf of our entire team,
(32:36):
thanks for listening.
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