September 8, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode of the Leadership Vision Podcast, host Nathan Freeburg is joined by Dr. Linda and Brian Schubring, co-authors of Unfolded: Lessons in Transformation from an Origami Crane. Together, they unpack the metaphor of maps—how our experiences, values, and memories create inner landscapes that shape who we are and how we lead.
Key themes explored:
- Why our lives can be seen as maps that reveal both familiar paths and hidden folds.
- How reflection helps us navigate uncertainty and find answers within our own stories.
- The role of origin stories and shaping influences in leadership.
- How life’s seasons and folds prepare us for growth and resilience.
- The importance of mentors and guides—experts, explorers, empaths, and entertainers—who help us interpret our maps.
Pull Quotes:
- “Maps represent our lives, our inner landscape, our lived experiences, and the people that have shaped us.” – Brian Schubring
- “In doing so, you learn to love your map. To not be ashamed of it, not just hide it away. But put dignity and compassion towards how you’ve been created and wired.” – Dr. Linda Schubring
👉 Get your copy of Unfolded: Lessons in Transformation from an Origami Crane
👉 Learn more about our work at Leadership Vision Consulting
🎉 Unfolded is a National Bestseller!
#1 in Business & #5 Overall on USA Today
#17 on Publisher’s Weekly Nonfiction
📘 Grab your copy + get the FREE Reflection Guide!
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Read the full blog post here!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Maps represent our lives, our inner landscape, our
lived experiences and the peoplethat have shaped us.
Our lives are a dynamicnarrative that can be
informative and entertaining.
What I would ask all of us todo is to remind ourselves that
where we are is an invitation toexplore and to enjoy our
present state and the peoplethat are around us.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Because in doing so you learn to love your map, to
not be ashamed of it, not justhide it away, but put dignity
and compassion towards howyou've been created and wired
and how you go about your life.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about our work,you can click the link in the
show notes or visit us on theweb at
leadershipvisionconsultingcom.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Friberg.
(01:02):
And what if the story of yourlife, every moment of joy, pain,
transition or insight, wasn'tjust something that you went
through, but part of a deepermap that makes you who you are?
In today's episode of theLeadership Vision Podcast, I'm
joined by Dr Linda and BrianSchubring, co-authors of
Unfolded Lessons inTransformation from an Origami
(01:23):
Crane, and we're diving into thepowerful concept at the heart
of the book the idea that we'reall made out of maps.
These maps aren't justmetaphors.
They're inner landscapes shapedby memory, values, biology,
relationship.
And when life folds us throughchange or challenge, we're not
breaking.
We're being shaped Together.
(01:43):
We're going to explore andunpack what it means to be both
the map maker and the travelerin your own story.
How do we honor the paths we'vewalked, navigate uncertainty
and choose our next fold withpurpose?
This conversation is aninvitation to see yourself and
your life unfolding with neweyes.
Let's get into it.
Brian and Linda, welcome backto the Leadership Vision Podcast
(02:11):
.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Thank you, nathan, good to see you.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Good to see you.
I'm excited to jump in and talkabout maps.
It is probably the concept thatI both understand the best and
I'm completely confused by.
In the book it seems like, ohyeah, we're made of maps, that
makes sense.
But then I dig it and I'm likewait, what does that mean
exactly?
So maybe just to kind of kickthings off here, tell us about
maps.
Why did you use a map that isalso a piece of origami as kind
(02:42):
of the central core idea of thebook?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
piece of origami as kind of the central core idea of
the book.
Well, first of all, I've beenfamiliar with maps as a metaphor
for one's internal landscapefor many, many decades.
I think I was first introducedto the idea when I was in
college.
So this idea of our innerlandscape being a map has kind
of always been with me.
And by inner landscape we mean,like those elements about each
(03:08):
one of us that make us who weare.
Our personality, our uniquecharacteristics, our talents,
our ability, our potential, ourpossibility are all parts of our
inner landscape.
It's a map that reflects wherewe've been.
It kind of points us in thedirection of where we're going.
That reflects where we've been.
It kind of points us in thedirection of where we're going
(03:29):
and oftentimes that the innerlandscape can be really really
familiar to us, known andwell-traveled.
And there are other parts ofourselves that could be those
parts of the maps that couldremain hidden for most of our
lives, places where we don'treally explore that often.
But they're still there.
And so when we introduce mapsin this book we are talking
about, each individual characteris made of a unique map.
(03:50):
That point is to illustratethat every person has unique
characteristics and attributesabout them, their own unique map
.
And the invitation of the bookis how can we better understand
our own map and how can we behelpful to others as they're
seeking to better understandtheir own internal map?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Maps have been a great metaphor for leadership in
a variety of different ways.
You can read lots of booksabout people helping you
navigate your map, get from oneplace to another.
What we find is people oftenlook at a map and they, like you
, start with where you are nowand you start and then you end
(04:30):
with a destination.
And how do we get from here tothere?
And there's many paths to dothat.
And our conversation aroundusing map paper for these
animals is more about.
But what about what else is onyour map?
What about the things that youdon't see or haven't noticed?
(04:52):
Why are you drawn to the colorblue If you have a heat map?
What does that mean?
What does that mean for you?
That it isn't just about starthere and there.
It is about understanding thenuances of what is happening
around you, how you've beenshaped and how all these
(05:12):
culminating factors cometogether and allow you to
express the most full version ofwho you are.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
My family go on a lot of road trips in the summertime
and do you remember the bigRand McNally maps yes, the 50
state maps is this huge?
For those of you don't remember, it was this giant book that
had, you know, a couple pagesfor every state.
And I remember my brother and Iused to love, like we go across
the country, these long trips.
(05:39):
We used to love looking atthese maps and being like, okay,
so we're starting in you know,minnesota or michigan, we moved
there.
So we're starting in Minnesotaor Michigan.
We move there and we're goingthrough this state and this
state and what's along the way,and can we stop here?
And oh, dad, dad, look at this,we found this random thing.
I wonder how much of our liveswith Google Maps you just type
(06:00):
in the destination and you justblindly drive is we kind of miss
some of that journey along theway?
Brian, you said that part ofour map is hidden on purpose and
I'm wondering if you can talk alittle bit more about that,
because you know there'ssomething about the Google map
thing that's very efficient, youget from A to B, you just go.
(06:22):
But there's something I don'tknow.
Are we losing something byhiding certain parts of our
journey that we're kind ofignoring because we don't want
to pay attention to a littledetour that might lead you to
the largest ball of twine in theworld.
I don't know if you can seewhere I'm going with this.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
There's a lot.
Oh my gosh, there's so muchthere, you've opened up an atlas
.
One of the things I think isinteresting about what you're
saying, nathan, is that whenyou're using like a Google map
system as your navigationalsystem, you're primarily looking
at lines and branches off thelines to get you from one point
(07:01):
to another, and not what'snecessarily in between or the
elements that are along the way.
I think that type of quickanswer and direct naturedness of
a Google map is something thatI'm trying to kind of tap into
as an invitation to avoid that,because I think what you and
your brother experienced is moreakin to what it is that we're
(07:24):
inviting readers to do, and thatis to notice the nuances and
the narratives and the placesand the people that are
represented on their own maps,and to be reminded of who those
people are, what those eventsmean to their lives and what are
the lessons that they'velearned.
Because, for us, maps retain theanswers to some of the
(07:48):
questions that we're looking totoday.
Some of our maps are thekeepers of the life lessons that
we've learned in the past thatwe are needing to use right now.
Sometimes, when we look intoourselves, we may know what the
next steps are, because we'rereminded of the missteps we've
made previously, and that's whyI think the invitation of this
map is for reflection first andnot for action, because with the
(08:12):
Google illustration I thinkthat navigation system is for
action in a specific direction.
The map in our book is forreflection with an intention for
discovery.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
And, nathan, when you brought up the Atlas or the
Rand McNally, do you rememberthey would have a year?
There would be a year attachedto it.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
My mom would get my dad the new Rand McNally map for
every Christmas.
It was like a big Christmasgift.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
No, it was a big deal .
We love maps in our house.
Yeah, a new one every year,because stuff changes right.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Because stuff Okay, so then that part changes.
So there's also this nuancewith our book where you look at
a map and is this the map ofwhen you were born, because
maybe there weren't as manycities or as many pathways?
Or fast forward 10 years.
Are there now new bodies ofwater that have been carved out?
(09:07):
Because that's kind of whathappened in Minnesota, I think.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
They found more.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Right, exactly.
So there's this opportunity torealize you're not just the map
you were when you were born andthere's not just been shaping
and folding that has happened,but this, this spot in time that
we are inviting a lot of thepeople that we're working with
the spot in time to look at whathave been some of the shaping
(09:35):
experiences, points of growth,what was happening in that space
, who's around you, what are youdrawn to, and you're kind of
getting a feel of, maybe, whatyour map looks like.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
There's also this idea with origami and obviously
the folds, like you're beingfolded and unfolded and I can't
help but think of those othermaps.
That is just like one statewhere, essentially, the way they
folded it from the factory, youcan never get it back that fold
again.
(10:10):
Right.
So you open up.
It's this huge thing and I justremember you're trying to
follow the creases, you'retrying to get it back into the
way that it was, and it's like Idon't know what's going on.
This is not.
This is not working.
Talk a little bit about folds,like when people are in the
middle of a fold, that moment oftension or uncertainty, you
know.
It's like am I folding this theright way?
(10:31):
I don't think, but I'mcommitted now.
And then eventually you getthat map back and you're like oh
, this is folded incorrectly,but it's still back in the
original shape.
Like what does that have to dowith this story?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Let's pick that question up midstream, because
when it comes to origami andmaps in the book, all of the
origami characters are alreadyfully formed, and so that right
there represents how we look atourselves.
If we were to capture an imageof what we look like right now,
we have been shaped and we arecurrently occupying a current
(11:07):
shape of who we are, how we showup in the world and how we
relate to other people.
And based on that shape andwith origami and the paper being
made of a map, there arecertain parts of our maps that
are seen by the outside world,maps that we're familiar reading
, because they just happen to bethe parts of the map that are
seen by the way that thecharacter has been folded.
And if you look at an origamicrane, you can focus on one wing
(11:31):
and that shows one part of amap.
You focus on the tail, thatwill show a different part of
the map, but still, by lookingat a torso or a wing or a neck,
you still do not have a completepicture of where that map
really represents in the worldand what is potentially beneath
one of the folds.
And so part of the invitationhere is sometimes there are
(11:54):
certain parts of our map thatare well-worn.
There are habitual pathways andpatterns of thinking that we
use over and over again, andit's so well known to us.
But then what happens when weface some uncertainty or a
challenge in life that is new tous?
Sometimes those habitual waysof thinking no longer work, and
that's where the invitation isto really begin to think.
(12:14):
Do I have the capacity and do Ihave the answers within me to
face this challenge?
And sometimes the only way thatwe know that is to begin to
unfold our current state ofbeing, the current shape we're
in, to discover what's hiddenbeneath the folds, cause most of
us do not realize how close theanswer is because it's just
(12:37):
beneath the fold.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I think you're talking about the inner
landscape, now, right, like thestuff that's in there.
About the inner landscape, now,right Like the stuff that's in
there.
You know I've heard you talkabout like those.
So think about a map.
You've got the terrain,landmarks, borders, edges,
sometimes unknown regions, knownregions.
You know routes, paths, allkinds of different landmarks.
(13:01):
How do you describe that innerlandscape or that part within
the map?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Well, I would begin with some questions that go like
this, that inner landscape,some questions like where did
you grow up?
What were the shapinginfluences that were there?
Were you in an industrial area?
Were you in a rural area?
Did you grow up in an urbanneighborhood?
Who were the people that werearound you?
What was in your home?
Who was in your family system?
(13:28):
And begin to think of thoseelements, because those elements
are part of our inner landscape.
The experiences that we lived,the places we went to school,
wherever we played in theplayground, those are also part
of the inner landscape.
I think I would start withthose questions, because that
gives us an indication to wherewe came from, how we were raised
(13:48):
, the beliefs and biases thatwe're continuing to carry to
this day, the friends that wehad and those experiences that
were easy, those experiencesthat are part of the struggle.
That's all the composition ofour inner landscape.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
The invitation is to do some introspection of the
components of your innerlandscape or your map, and I
think there are times where wezero in on one part of the map
and we forget what's along theedges and the fact that the
(14:23):
origami characters are all madeof squares.
Put some boundary markers inplace, for look here, but look
all across your entire map.
So, as we have heard back fromreaders of Unfolded, they can
now draw lines to maybe why theydon't fit in some of the
(15:03):
context they do, or why they area fresh voice or have some
purpose at this time in theplaces that they find themselves
.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I can illustrate this quite simply, not quite simply.
Our inner landscape revealssomething to us that helps in
our understanding of why we showup the way that we do today and
why we make the decisions, ofhow we form relationships today,
when you think about my lifeand you think about my inner
(15:34):
landscape, or what kind of mapwould I choose to share with
other people to help themunderstand how I show up in the
world today, what I choose toshare with other people to help
them understand how I show up inthe world today?
If I were to do that, I wouldhave a map of the neighborhood
that I grew up in, the neighborthat I grew up in.
My address was 9025 13th AvenueSouth.
(15:54):
That was a little 900 squarefoot house, two bedroom, one
bath.
It was a row house.
You look to the left and to theright and there was a house
exactly like it on each side.
That smallness and that samenesswas important because at that
point my neighborhood was as bigas my world was.
At the end of my street waswhere the hockey rink was, where
I played hockey.
Just about a half mile away wasthe football stadium where I
(16:16):
played football, and down theroad less than a mile was the
baseball fields where I playedbaseball, where I played
football, and down the road lessthan a mile was a baseball
fields where I played baseball.
Athletic fields shaped my life,it shaped my relationships, it
shaped my competitive nature,and if you understand that part
of my inner landscape, you'llunderstand several things.
Number one I grew up aroundsmall, small neighborhoods,
(16:37):
small homes and small dreams.
Second, it's important to knowthat those athletic fields
represent that I grew up playingteam sports and so that team
mentality, that athleticmentality, playing together for
a certain goal, that stays withme today.
And the third thing to knowabout that small neighborhood is
that the teams that I was on wealways won, and so that
(16:57):
expectation is still something Icarry today.
So if you know, like just thatshort illustration about who I
am, the landscape and theneighborhood and the influences
that I grew up in, it reallyhelps you understand how I show
up today.
Cause, in response to this small, I dream really big.
I still carry that teammentality.
(17:18):
I want to partner with peoplethat are gifted and excellent at
what they do.
I still want the best outcomefor whatever that we're engaged
in, and just that mentalityhelps remind me that when I'm
frustrated, there's a reason forthat because I have high
expectations.
If I feel like we're missingsomething on our team, it's
because I've always played teamsports, and if I dream too big,
(17:39):
it's because I came from a placewhere dreams were small.
You weren't really expected toleave the neighborhood.
You're expected to grow up andwork down the road Like that's
just what was a part of thatenvironment.
So to know that about me cansay a lot about how I show up
and how I navigate the worldwithin which I live right now.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
What's so interesting about what you shared, brian,
is you could have also gone theopposite way.
You could have been someone whodreams small.
You could have been someone whoworks down the road.
You could have been someone who, you know, just kind of fit
right along with that.
What do you think it is aboutyou, about your experience, that
almost made you go to theopposite?
(18:18):
That's easy.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Okay, that's easy.
Okay, that's easy Because ofwhere I grew up.
The landscape was small and Idreamed small, but here's what
changed everything, and that wasmy parents had a dream based
upon the landscape that theycame from.
My parents came from alandscape where higher education
was not an option and it wasn'tpossible, and their dream was
(18:42):
how can we get our sons outsideof this neighborhood and get
them educated so that theirworld will not represent the
world that we came from?
And my mom, to this day, stilltalks about where she grew up
and her dream to never return tothat place again and to provide
opportunities for us so that wecould dream and live a life
(19:03):
bigger than what she had.
That was it, and I know that,even though I traveled a lot for
athletics, it wasn't until Igot to college where I realized,
oh my gosh, this world is somuch bigger than what I thought
and that just changed everythingfor me.
But it was built on someoneelse's dream my parents for me
(19:23):
that I would not get quoteunquote stuck or that I wouldn't
remain in that smallneighborhood.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Brian, I appreciate the work that you have done to
name that specific map in yourlife, in your life.
I know that that by oftensharing an example, it gives,
hopefully, the listener thisopportunity to start to consider
what does your map look like?
And we'll eventually get to,maybe, some of the shaping
(19:51):
influences of the map.
But before that, just take apause and we invite you to
consider where is your map?
What would your map look like?
Brian had something veryspecific in this.
You know city structure withplaygrounds and athletic fields
around, but perhaps you have amap that's mostly water.
(20:16):
You have a map that is rootedin the city.
You have a map that spans anentire continent.
Maybe it crosses differentborders, and wherever that is,
let the map allow you to do somethinking and consideration of
(20:38):
is this the map that I would,that I would describe and and we
have done that with a varietyof maps so I feel like we have a
map from each part of ourhistory, and so I appreciate
that.
But I want to invite, like thisthis is what the invitation is
(20:59):
is to consider what is the mapof your life.
You'll see in the context of thebook that these different
characters aren't just shapeddifferently, they're made of
different kinds of maps.
We made the young crane, oc'slittle brother.
We made his map look like aCrayola map or a Crayola Some,
(21:23):
some kid developed a map thatthey needed to turn in in grade
four or three, I don't know.
And and there's.
Then there's a more nuancedversion of a different character
.
So to know that is to not beconfined of, this is your map,
this is what it looks like.
Sometimes just that exercisecan allow us to be grounded into
(21:47):
.
Okay, then what's the next step?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Our inner landscape is compared to a map to help us
understand and be reminded ofwhere we came from, the lessons
we learned there that are stillinfluencing who we are today.
That doesn't mean that we arelocked into that one particular
area of the world that we grewup, but it is part of our origin
story and it is in some uniqueway connected to your where and
(22:13):
to your why today.
Say that last part again whenyou're from, and that unique
landscape will always be a partof who you are.
It's part of your origin story.
And also that doesn't mean thatyou remain in that one place,
locked to one environment, forthe rest of your life, because
the pathway that led from thatplace of beginning is somehow
(22:35):
uniquely tied to and make senseto, the place that you occupy
today.
Uniquely tied to and make senseto the place that you occupy
today.
And my invitation is for us to,with curiosity and openness,
look back at our lives and askourselves who helped get us
there.
What were those turns that Imade in life that I'm really,
really proud of?
What were those missteps ormistakes that I made that
somehow got woven in and made anew route to where I am today,
(22:58):
because along that journey thereare so many pieces of wisdom
and nuance and story that we canremind ourselves of to help us
get through life today.
Oh my gosh, there's so muchthere.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out where to take that,
because my first thought beforeI had you repeat it was I want
to go.
Hypothetically, I want to gosomewhere totally different from
where I've come from.
Where I came from is a certainway that while it has shaped me,
I perhaps want to forget it, ormove past it.
(23:35):
How do you then use that?
And I'm not even talking aboutlike big issues of pain or
anything like that, Just likeyou know what.
I appreciate it, but I don'treally want to take any of that
with me.
Is that healthy, unhealthy?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
How do?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
you sort of navigate that it is so healthy.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
There's two sides Right.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
There's two sides of this, Nathan somehow ask that
question because that's theanswer there are two sides of
maps.
Nathan somehow ask thatquestion because that's the
answer there are two sides.
Because, nathan, just becausewe get stuck in a dark valley
where we're depressed, there'sdespair, it doesn't mean we stay
there.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
But we sometimes get lost and I'm not going to edit
this, but I guess what I'mwondering is how do you use that
?
Linda has the answer.
How or why is that beneficialto know the map past, to know
all of this stuff, to say I, Ihave a different dream, I want
to go forward, but I don'tnecessarily want to take any of
(24:30):
that with me all right, I'll putit back to you, nathan oh dear
why did your mom buy a new Atlasevery year, or roadmap Rand
McNally?
Right, rand McNally, I'd have toget my fact checkers on it.
It may have been every otheryear, but it was because things
changed.
It was because I think they are.
(24:52):
If I'm remembering right, therewas also this feature where it
was, like you know, new sitesalong the way, and so that was
updated.
That changed.
You know new sites along theway, and so that was updated.
That changed.
Like you know, i-95, i-84didn't change necessarily, but
there may have been new stuff,who knows.
Also, the map got really beatup after a year of having little
(25:14):
boys opening and closing andripping pages and stuff, so that
was part of it too.
I don't know if that's helpfulto answering this question, but
what?
Speaker 1 (25:24):
we present to the people that we work with, when
we're, when we're speaking infront of a crowd, we're working
with a team.
We will emphasize that thereare different sides to our maps.
There are the sides of our mapsthat people see, that we put on
display, that we're proud of,and there are sides of our map
that are kinda tucked away, thatwe don't really talk about.
Now, the map that I introducedon this podcast of where I grew
(25:45):
up, that is a map that I havetucked away Because there are
times where I'm not really proudof that.
I don't talk about it.
It's a story that I've moved onfrom and if you look at the way
that I live today, you wouldn'tever know that that side of my
map is even there, unless I talkabout it and put it on display.
Now, for some of us, there maybe sides of our map that we
(26:08):
don't want to talk about.
Like you were saying, therecould be great struggles and the
freedom that we have withunderstanding this part of our
inner landscape is, even thoughit's part of our life and we may
not be ready, for a variety ofreasons, to share and put that
part of our life on display, wecan still shape our lives in a
way where that part remainshidden or remains tucked away.
(26:31):
Only a few people may know thatit's there, but it's still
vital for the composition of whowe are, how we navigate our
lives, who we value and what wechoose to do with our life.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
And it's a map, that it's a metaphor, so it's not
like you're stuck now with thisone map.
There is another side, there isanother one to be created are
times, I think, where we justask for a redo and and almost
(27:05):
select a new piece of map paperand and put down stakes and
allow life to do the folding.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Some people look at their inner landscape, and this
happens in our one-to-oneconversations a lot, and that is
someone will talk about, youknow, a time in their life where
there's a lot of struggle andthey may say something in our
one-to-one conversation Like Ihaven't talked about this in 10
years, but it's still there andthey don't have it on display,
(27:31):
but they will remind themselvesthrough reflection of how
important that struggle was.
The converse is also true.
I've had several conversationswith people where they will talk
about a part of their life thatwas fantastic.
They felt so alive, everythingwas going right and it's as this
time of abundance andflourishing and sustainability.
(27:54):
But no one knows that part ofthe map because for some reason,
they're just in a differentlandscape altogether, but still
they have this rich part oftheir life just there, and I
think that that's part of why wecontinue to move forward.
I read somewhere about maps inpreparation for today, and
whoever was writing was talkingabout how maps are always in
(28:18):
movement and they didn't saythat we are moving through the
map.
They were saying maps are alwaysin movement and they didn't say
that we are moving through themap.
They were saying maps are alwaysin movement and the implication
is that, like our physicalbeing, is itself a map and it's
moving, it's changing, it'sevolving and it's growing.
And that reminded me ofsomething else about the nature
of maps.
So this is just I don't know ifit's just how my little quirky
(28:39):
mind works, but as I look atsomeone's map, I think that
there are different seasonsrepresented on the maps as well.
And just because you're goingthrough a time where you feel
like the leaves are falling offand everything's getting barren,
there's a reason why we'rejourneying through that season
of our map because there's aspring that's coming.
(29:00):
And sometimes just thatunderstanding and Linda and I
had these conversations too oflike this isn't forever, it's
just for now, this is temporary,we know that a new season's
coming, and just that reminderof the seasonal nature of the
landscapes that we live in it'sjust part of, I think, what it
means to be human and also, inthis, to remind ourselves that
(29:23):
through every season there is anintentional shaping that's
happening for the preparationfor what's coming next, and to
understand that shaping willnever cease.
Shaping is always happening.
I'm just, I don't even, I don'tthere's just so much there.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
There's so much, and I think it there's so much, that
it starts to feel complicatedand sometimes the questions are
okay well, am I supposed to knowthis map?
Or how big should it be andwhat color should it be?
And is it supposed to be this,these dimensions?
And once again we're inviting alittle bit more simplicity.
(30:03):
Use a question like aspringboard what does your map
look like?
Where was a place of growth,pivot challenge, change?
What was a map of the literalmap of the neighborhood you grew
up in?
of the neighborhood you grew upin Right.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
What story is that map?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
telling about you, and we find that using the
metaphor of map gets peoplethinking out of the everyday.
It's a question that theyhaven't wrestled with.
I remember the first time thatI asked our daughter she was
maybe 10.
I asked her like well, who doyou sit next to in class?
(30:47):
And she had so much fundescribing it that she's like
can I do it for my next class?
She mapped out all of herclasses where the teacher would
walk.
She was using this metaphor asa map of a seating chart to
teach me, to invite me intowhere she lives and how she
(31:08):
navigates every day.
So we don't want to get woundaround like, well, what is this
right or wrong?
Use it as a springboard.
Even when you hear map, whatkind of map are you seeing and
experiencing?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
One of the things I think is really important to
this conversation is to remindourselves that we're not alone
in the interpretation of ourinner landscape.
There are so many people in ourlives that have been a part of
our lives, that are part of ourlives now or that are coming to
help us read, to interpret andto navigate how it is that we're
understanding ourselves now, tounderstand where we've come
(31:45):
from and to help prepare us forwhat's going forward.
And so, in this process, I thinkthat it's helpful for all of us
to be reminded, to ask for helpfrom various teachers and
mentors and coaches and guides,and just the wise people that
are around us to help usunderstand what some of the next
steps are, understand how toget stuck.
(32:06):
Sometimes it's important toremind us that we're in a valley
and we mistook it for amountaintop.
There's just something aboutthe nature where we emotionally
get lost, and in thatemotionally getting lost, we
mistakenly identify thelandmarks for what they're not,
because we perceive them to besomething different than they
actually are.
And sometimes it just takes anew set of eyes to look at where
(32:31):
we are and to help usunderstand that we're not lost.
We are actually right where weneed to be, and we simply needed
to ask for help to understandwhich direction to take the next
step.
There are people there to helpus.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
And then true, brian Shubring fashion.
These teachers all start withthe letter E.
So, teachers are brought to youby the letter E.
How will you interpret your mapE?
Experts are those that areexperienced among you.
Next is explorers those thatwill help you understand where
(33:04):
you've been and maybe invite youto take paths that are unknown.
It's also important to have theemotions that are swirling
around you.
That's good.
And the fourth one isentertainers brought to you by
(33:32):
the letter E.
Brian, you speak about that,Entertainers.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I've learned that there are just times in life
where you just need to beentertained.
Entertainers I've learned thatthere are just times in life
where you just need to beentertained and there are people
that are near to you.
That just have a joke to tell,a turn of phrase that really
helps lighten your perspective.
What do you call the wife of ahippie?
A.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Mississippi, a Mississippi Like even that?
I mean, that's not exactly howit's going.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Insert like the applause there in the podcast,
like just make it real nice,right right right, right, right,
right, right.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
So thinking about what are your maps and who are
going to help you understand thereading of your maps?
Speaker 3 (34:13):
That's good, brian and Linda.
We've given people a lot tothink about.
There's a lot of sort ofmetaphor, there's some very
practical things.
We didn't even necessarily getinto the unfolding and refolding
part.
That's going to be anotherepisode, but if you were to
summarize or create some sort ofvery succinct final thought,
(34:33):
I'm going to ask both of you todo this separately.
What would that be?
As we talk about maps and theimportant role that they play in
our lives, and my invitationfor all of us is to trust the
map.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
There are so many things that are hidden within
our own landscape that are therefor us to discover, to help us
along the way, and my hope isthat we take the time to
discover something new every daythat will help us in leading
the way.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Because in doing so you learn to love your map, to
not be ashamed of it, not justhide it away, but put dignity
and compassion towards howyou've been created and wired
and how you go about your life.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Thank you for listening to the Leadership
Vision Podcast, our show helpingyou build positive team culture
.
If you found value from thisepisode or any of our other
resources, we would appreciateit.
If you would subscribe to ouremail newsletter, follow us in
all the socials and, perhapsmost importantly, share this
with someone you think couldbenefit from this.
And if you haven't picked upyour copy of Unfolded Lessons in
(35:48):
Transformation from an OrigamiCrane, make sure to get yours on
Amazon or wherever good booksare sold.
I'm Nathan Friberg.
I'm Linda Shubring.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
And I'm Brian Shubring.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
And on behalf of our entire team, thanks for
listening.
Maps represent our lives, our inner landscape, our
lived experiences and the peoplethat have shaped us.
Our lives are a dynamicnarrative that can be
informative and entertaining.
What I would ask all of us todo is to remind ourselves that
where we are is an invitation toexplore and to enjoy our
present state and the peoplethat are around us.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Because in doing so you learn to love your map, to
not be ashamed of it, not justhide it away, but put dignity
and compassion towards howyou've been created and wired
and how you go about your life.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about our work,you can click the link in the
show notes or visit us on theweb at
leadershipvisionconsultingcom.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Friberg.
(01:02):
And what if the story of yourlife, every moment of joy, pain,
transition or insight, wasn'tjust something that you went
through, but part of a deepermap that makes you who you are?
In today's episode of theLeadership Vision Podcast, I'm
joined by Dr Linda and BrianSchubring, co-authors of
Unfolded Lessons inTransformation from an Origami
(01:23):
Crane, and we're diving into thepowerful concept at the heart
of the book the idea that we'reall made out of maps.
These maps aren't justmetaphors.
They're inner landscapes shapedby memory, values, biology,
relationship.
And when life folds us throughchange or challenge, we're not
breaking.
We're being shaped Together.
(01:43):
We're going to explore andunpack what it means to be both
the map maker and the travelerin your own story.
How do we honor the paths we'vewalked, navigate uncertainty
and choose our next fold withpurpose?
This conversation is aninvitation to see yourself and
your life unfolding with neweyes.
Let's get into it.
Brian and Linda, welcome backto the Leadership Vision Podcast
(02:11):
.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Thank you, nathan, good to see you.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Good to see you.
I'm excited to jump in and talkabout maps.
It is probably the concept thatI both understand the best and
I'm completely confused by.
In the book it seems like, ohyeah, we're made of maps, that
makes sense.
But then I dig it and I'm likewait, what does that mean
exactly?
So maybe just to kind of kickthings off here, tell us about
maps.
Why did you use a map that isalso a piece of origami as kind
(02:42):
of the central core idea of thebook?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
piece of origami as kind of the central core idea of
the book.
Well, first of all, I've beenfamiliar with maps as a metaphor
for one's internal landscapefor many, many decades.
I think I was first introducedto the idea when I was in
college.
So this idea of our innerlandscape being a map has kind
of always been with me.
And by inner landscape we mean,like those elements about each
(03:08):
one of us that make us who weare.
Our personality, our uniquecharacteristics, our talents,
our ability, our potential, ourpossibility are all parts of our
inner landscape.
It's a map that reflects wherewe've been.
It kind of points us in thedirection of where we're going.
That reflects where we've been.
It kind of points us in thedirection of where we're going
(03:29):
and oftentimes that the innerlandscape can be really really
familiar to us, known andwell-traveled.
And there are other parts ofourselves that could be those
parts of the maps that couldremain hidden for most of our
lives, places where we don'treally explore that often.
But they're still there.
And so when we introduce mapsin this book we are talking
about, each individual characteris made of a unique map.
(03:50):
That point is to illustratethat every person has unique
characteristics and attributesabout them, their own unique map
.
And the invitation of the bookis how can we better understand
our own map and how can we behelpful to others as they're
seeking to better understandtheir own internal map?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Maps have been a great metaphor for leadership in
a variety of different ways.
You can read lots of booksabout people helping you
navigate your map, get from oneplace to another.
What we find is people oftenlook at a map and they, like you
, start with where you are nowand you start and then you end
(04:30):
with a destination.
And how do we get from here tothere?
And there's many paths to dothat.
And our conversation aroundusing map paper for these
animals is more about.
But what about what else is onyour map?
What about the things that youdon't see or haven't noticed?
(04:52):
Why are you drawn to the colorblue If you have a heat map?
What does that mean?
What does that mean for you?
That it isn't just about starthere and there.
It is about understanding thenuances of what is happening
around you, how you've beenshaped and how all these
(05:12):
culminating factors cometogether and allow you to
express the most full version ofwho you are.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
My family go on a lot of road trips in the summertime
and do you remember the bigRand McNally maps yes, the 50
state maps is this huge?
For those of you don't remember, it was this giant book that
had, you know, a couple pagesfor every state.
And I remember my brother and Iused to love, like we go across
the country, these long trips.
(05:39):
We used to love looking atthese maps and being like, okay,
so we're starting in you know,minnesota or michigan, we moved
there.
So we're starting in Minnesotaor Michigan.
We move there and we're goingthrough this state and this
state and what's along the way,and can we stop here?
And oh, dad, dad, look at this,we found this random thing.
I wonder how much of our liveswith Google Maps you just type
(06:00):
in the destination and you justblindly drive is we kind of miss
some of that journey along theway?
Brian, you said that part ofour map is hidden on purpose and
I'm wondering if you can talk alittle bit more about that,
because you know there'ssomething about the Google map
thing that's very efficient, youget from A to B, you just go.
(06:22):
But there's something I don'tknow.
Are we losing something byhiding certain parts of our
journey that we're kind ofignoring because we don't want
to pay attention to a littledetour that might lead you to
the largest ball of twine in theworld.
I don't know if you can seewhere I'm going with this.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
There's a lot.
Oh my gosh, there's so muchthere, you've opened up an atlas
.
One of the things I think isinteresting about what you're
saying, nathan, is that whenyou're using like a Google map
system as your navigationalsystem, you're primarily looking
at lines and branches off thelines to get you from one point
(07:01):
to another, and not what'snecessarily in between or the
elements that are along the way.
I think that type of quickanswer and direct naturedness of
a Google map is something thatI'm trying to kind of tap into
as an invitation to avoid that,because I think what you and
your brother experienced is moreakin to what it is that we're
(07:24):
inviting readers to do, and thatis to notice the nuances and
the narratives and the placesand the people that are
represented on their own maps,and to be reminded of who those
people are, what those eventsmean to their lives and what are
the lessons that they'velearned.
Because, for us, maps retain theanswers to some of the
(07:48):
questions that we're looking totoday.
Some of our maps are thekeepers of the life lessons that
we've learned in the past thatwe are needing to use right now.
Sometimes, when we look intoourselves, we may know what the
next steps are, because we'rereminded of the missteps we've
made previously, and that's whyI think the invitation of this
map is for reflection first andnot for action, because with the
(08:12):
Google illustration I thinkthat navigation system is for
action in a specific direction.
The map in our book is forreflection with an intention for
discovery.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
And, nathan, when you brought up the Atlas or the
Rand McNally, do you rememberthey would have a year?
There would be a year attachedto it.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
My mom would get my dad the new Rand McNally map for
every Christmas.
It was like a big Christmasgift.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
No, it was a big deal .
We love maps in our house.
Yeah, a new one every year,because stuff changes right.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Because stuff Okay, so then that part changes.
So there's also this nuancewith our book where you look at
a map and is this the map ofwhen you were born, because
maybe there weren't as manycities or as many pathways?
Or fast forward 10 years.
Are there now new bodies ofwater that have been carved out?
(09:07):
Because that's kind of whathappened in Minnesota, I think.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
They found more.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Right, exactly.
So there's this opportunity torealize you're not just the map
you were when you were born andthere's not just been shaping
and folding that has happened,but this, this spot in time that
we are inviting a lot of thepeople that we're working with
the spot in time to look at whathave been some of the shaping
(09:35):
experiences, points of growth,what was happening in that space
, who's around you, what are youdrawn to, and you're kind of
getting a feel of, maybe, whatyour map looks like.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
There's also this idea with origami and obviously
the folds, like you're beingfolded and unfolded and I can't
help but think of those othermaps.
That is just like one statewhere, essentially, the way they
folded it from the factory, youcan never get it back that fold
again.
(10:10):
Right.
So you open up.
It's this huge thing and I justremember you're trying to
follow the creases, you'retrying to get it back into the
way that it was, and it's like Idon't know what's going on.
This is not.
This is not working.
Talk a little bit about folds,like when people are in the
middle of a fold, that moment oftension or uncertainty, you
know.
It's like am I folding this theright way?
(10:31):
I don't think, but I'mcommitted now.
And then eventually you getthat map back and you're like oh
, this is folded incorrectly,but it's still back in the
original shape.
Like what does that have to dowith this story?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Let's pick that question up midstream, because
when it comes to origami andmaps in the book, all of the
origami characters are alreadyfully formed, and so that right
there represents how we look atourselves.
If we were to capture an imageof what we look like right now,
we have been shaped and we arecurrently occupying a current
(11:07):
shape of who we are, how we showup in the world and how we
relate to other people.
And based on that shape andwith origami and the paper being
made of a map, there arecertain parts of our maps that
are seen by the outside world,maps that we're familiar reading
, because they just happen to bethe parts of the map that are
seen by the way that thecharacter has been folded.
And if you look at an origamicrane, you can focus on one wing
(11:31):
and that shows one part of amap.
You focus on the tail, thatwill show a different part of
the map, but still, by lookingat a torso or a wing or a neck,
you still do not have a completepicture of where that map
really represents in the worldand what is potentially beneath
one of the folds.
And so part of the invitationhere is sometimes there are
(11:54):
certain parts of our map thatare well-worn.
There are habitual pathways andpatterns of thinking that we
use over and over again, andit's so well known to us.
But then what happens when weface some uncertainty or a
challenge in life that is new tous?
Sometimes those habitual waysof thinking no longer work, and
that's where the invitation isto really begin to think.
(12:14):
Do I have the capacity and do Ihave the answers within me to
face this challenge?
And sometimes the only way thatwe know that is to begin to
unfold our current state ofbeing, the current shape we're
in, to discover what's hiddenbeneath the folds, cause most of
us do not realize how close theanswer is because it's just
(12:37):
beneath the fold.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I think you're talking about the inner
landscape, now, right, like thestuff that's in there.
About the inner landscape, now,right Like the stuff that's in
there.
You know I've heard you talkabout like those.
So think about a map.
You've got the terrain,landmarks, borders, edges,
sometimes unknown regions, knownregions.
You know routes, paths, allkinds of different landmarks.
(13:01):
How do you describe that innerlandscape or that part within
the map?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Well, I would begin with some questions that go like
this, that inner landscape,some questions like where did
you grow up?
What were the shapinginfluences that were there?
Were you in an industrial area?
Were you in a rural area?
Did you grow up in an urbanneighborhood?
Who were the people that werearound you?
What was in your home?
Who was in your family system?
(13:28):
And begin to think of thoseelements, because those elements
are part of our inner landscape.
The experiences that we lived,the places we went to school,
wherever we played in theplayground, those are also part
of the inner landscape.
I think I would start withthose questions, because that
gives us an indication to wherewe came from, how we were raised
(13:48):
, the beliefs and biases thatwe're continuing to carry to
this day, the friends that wehad and those experiences that
were easy, those experiencesthat are part of the struggle.
That's all the composition ofour inner landscape.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
The invitation is to do some introspection of the
components of your innerlandscape or your map, and I
think there are times where wezero in on one part of the map
and we forget what's along theedges and the fact that the
(14:23):
origami characters are all madeof squares.
Put some boundary markers inplace, for look here, but look
all across your entire map.
So, as we have heard back fromreaders of Unfolded, they can
now draw lines to maybe why theydon't fit in some of the
(15:03):
context they do, or why they area fresh voice or have some
purpose at this time in theplaces that they find themselves
.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I can illustrate this quite simply, not quite simply.
Our inner landscape revealssomething to us that helps in
our understanding of why we showup the way that we do today and
why we make the decisions, ofhow we form relationships today,
when you think about my lifeand you think about my inner
(15:34):
landscape, or what kind of mapwould I choose to share with
other people to help themunderstand how I show up in the
world today, what I choose toshare with other people to help
them understand how I show up inthe world today?
If I were to do that, I wouldhave a map of the neighborhood
that I grew up in, the neighborthat I grew up in.
My address was 9025 13th AvenueSouth.
(15:54):
That was a little 900 squarefoot house, two bedroom, one
bath.
It was a row house.
You look to the left and to theright and there was a house
exactly like it on each side.
That smallness and that samenesswas important because at that
point my neighborhood was as bigas my world was.
At the end of my street waswhere the hockey rink was, where
I played hockey.
Just about a half mile away wasthe football stadium where I
(16:16):
played football, and down theroad less than a mile was the
baseball fields where I playedbaseball, where I played
football, and down the road lessthan a mile was a baseball
fields where I played baseball.
Athletic fields shaped my life,it shaped my relationships, it
shaped my competitive nature,and if you understand that part
of my inner landscape, you'llunderstand several things.
Number one I grew up aroundsmall, small neighborhoods,
(16:37):
small homes and small dreams.
Second, it's important to knowthat those athletic fields
represent that I grew up playingteam sports and so that team
mentality, that athleticmentality, playing together for
a certain goal, that stays withme today.
And the third thing to knowabout that small neighborhood is
that the teams that I was on wealways won, and so that
(16:57):
expectation is still something Icarry today.
So if you know, like just thatshort illustration about who I
am, the landscape and theneighborhood and the influences
that I grew up in, it reallyhelps you understand how I show
up today.
Cause, in response to this small, I dream really big.
I still carry that teammentality.
(17:18):
I want to partner with peoplethat are gifted and excellent at
what they do.
I still want the best outcomefor whatever that we're engaged
in, and just that mentalityhelps remind me that when I'm
frustrated, there's a reason forthat because I have high
expectations.
If I feel like we're missingsomething on our team, it's
because I've always played teamsports, and if I dream too big,
(17:39):
it's because I came from a placewhere dreams were small.
You weren't really expected toleave the neighborhood.
You're expected to grow up andwork down the road Like that's
just what was a part of thatenvironment.
So to know that about me cansay a lot about how I show up
and how I navigate the worldwithin which I live right now.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
What's so interesting about what you shared, brian,
is you could have also gone theopposite way.
You could have been someone whodreams small.
You could have been someone whoworks down the road.
You could have been someone who, you know, just kind of fit
right along with that.
What do you think it is aboutyou, about your experience, that
almost made you go to theopposite?
(18:18):
That's easy.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Okay, that's easy.
Okay, that's easy Because ofwhere I grew up.
The landscape was small and Idreamed small, but here's what
changed everything, and that wasmy parents had a dream based
upon the landscape that theycame from.
My parents came from alandscape where higher education
was not an option and it wasn'tpossible, and their dream was
(18:42):
how can we get our sons outsideof this neighborhood and get
them educated so that theirworld will not represent the
world that we came from?
And my mom, to this day, stilltalks about where she grew up
and her dream to never return tothat place again and to provide
opportunities for us so that wecould dream and live a life
(19:03):
bigger than what she had.
That was it, and I know that,even though I traveled a lot for
athletics, it wasn't until Igot to college where I realized,
oh my gosh, this world is somuch bigger than what I thought
and that just changed everythingfor me.
But it was built on someoneelse's dream my parents for me
(19:23):
that I would not get quoteunquote stuck or that I wouldn't
remain in that smallneighborhood.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Brian, I appreciate the work that you have done to
name that specific map in yourlife, in your life.
I know that that by oftensharing an example, it gives,
hopefully, the listener thisopportunity to start to consider
what does your map look like?
And we'll eventually get to,maybe, some of the shaping
(19:51):
influences of the map.
But before that, just take apause and we invite you to
consider where is your map?
What would your map look like?
Brian had something veryspecific in this.
You know city structure withplaygrounds and athletic fields
around, but perhaps you have amap that's mostly water.
(20:16):
You have a map that is rootedin the city.
You have a map that spans anentire continent.
Maybe it crosses differentborders, and wherever that is,
let the map allow you to do somethinking and consideration of
(20:38):
is this the map that I would,that I would describe and and we
have done that with a varietyof maps so I feel like we have a
map from each part of ourhistory, and so I appreciate
that.
But I want to invite, like thisthis is what the invitation is
(20:59):
is to consider what is the mapof your life.
You'll see in the context of thebook that these different
characters aren't just shapeddifferently, they're made of
different kinds of maps.
We made the young crane, oc'slittle brother.
We made his map look like aCrayola map or a Crayola Some,
(21:23):
some kid developed a map thatthey needed to turn in in grade
four or three, I don't know.
And and there's.
Then there's a more nuancedversion of a different character
.
So to know that is to not beconfined of, this is your map,
this is what it looks like.
Sometimes just that exercisecan allow us to be grounded into
(21:47):
.
Okay, then what's the next step?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Our inner landscape is compared to a map to help us
understand and be reminded ofwhere we came from, the lessons
we learned there that are stillinfluencing who we are today.
That doesn't mean that we arelocked into that one particular
area of the world that we grewup, but it is part of our origin
story and it is in some uniqueway connected to your where and
(22:13):
to your why today.
Say that last part again whenyou're from, and that unique
landscape will always be a partof who you are.
It's part of your origin story.
And also that doesn't mean thatyou remain in that one place,
locked to one environment, forthe rest of your life, because
the pathway that led from thatplace of beginning is somehow
(22:35):
uniquely tied to and make senseto, the place that you occupy
today.
Uniquely tied to and make senseto the place that you occupy
today.
And my invitation is for us to,with curiosity and openness,
look back at our lives and askourselves who helped get us
there.
What were those turns that Imade in life that I'm really,
really proud of?
What were those missteps ormistakes that I made that
somehow got woven in and made anew route to where I am today,
(22:58):
because along that journey thereare so many pieces of wisdom
and nuance and story that we canremind ourselves of to help us
get through life today.
Oh my gosh, there's so muchthere.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out where to take that,
because my first thought beforeI had you repeat it was I want
to go.
Hypothetically, I want to gosomewhere totally different from
where I've come from.
Where I came from is a certainway that while it has shaped me,
I perhaps want to forget it, ormove past it.
(23:35):
How do you then use that?
And I'm not even talking aboutlike big issues of pain or
anything like that, Just likeyou know what.
I appreciate it, but I don'treally want to take any of that
with me.
Is that healthy, unhealthy?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
How do?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
you sort of navigate that it is so healthy.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
There's two sides Right.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
There's two sides of this, Nathan somehow ask that
question because that's theanswer there are two sides of
maps.
Nathan somehow ask thatquestion because that's the
answer there are two sides.
Because, nathan, just becausewe get stuck in a dark valley
where we're depressed, there'sdespair, it doesn't mean we stay
there.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
But we sometimes get lost and I'm not going to edit
this, but I guess what I'mwondering is how do you use that
?
Linda has the answer.
How or why is that beneficialto know the map past, to know
all of this stuff, to say I, Ihave a different dream, I want
to go forward, but I don'tnecessarily want to take any of
(24:30):
that with me all right, I'll putit back to you, nathan oh dear
why did your mom buy a new Atlasevery year, or roadmap Rand
McNally?
Right, rand McNally, I'd have toget my fact checkers on it.
It may have been every otheryear, but it was because things
changed.
It was because I think they are.
(24:52):
If I'm remembering right, therewas also this feature where it
was, like you know, new sitesalong the way, and so that was
updated.
That changed.
You know new sites along theway, and so that was updated.
That changed.
Like you know, i-95, i-84didn't change necessarily, but
there may have been new stuff,who knows.
Also, the map got really beatup after a year of having little
(25:14):
boys opening and closing andripping pages and stuff, so that
was part of it too.
I don't know if that's helpfulto answering this question, but
what?
Speaker 1 (25:24):
we present to the people that we work with, when
we're, when we're speaking infront of a crowd, we're working
with a team.
We will emphasize that thereare different sides to our maps.
There are the sides of our mapsthat people see, that we put on
display, that we're proud of,and there are sides of our map
that are kinda tucked away, thatwe don't really talk about.
Now, the map that I introducedon this podcast of where I grew
(25:45):
up, that is a map that I havetucked away Because there are
times where I'm not really proudof that.
I don't talk about it.
It's a story that I've moved onfrom and if you look at the way
that I live today, you wouldn'tever know that that side of my
map is even there, unless I talkabout it and put it on display.
Now, for some of us, there maybe sides of our map that we
(26:08):
don't want to talk about.
Like you were saying, therecould be great struggles and the
freedom that we have withunderstanding this part of our
inner landscape is, even thoughit's part of our life and we may
not be ready, for a variety ofreasons, to share and put that
part of our life on display, wecan still shape our lives in a
way where that part remainshidden or remains tucked away.
(26:31):
Only a few people may know thatit's there, but it's still
vital for the composition of whowe are, how we navigate our
lives, who we value and what wechoose to do with our life.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
And it's a map, that it's a metaphor, so it's not
like you're stuck now with thisone map.
There is another side, there isanother one to be created are
times, I think, where we justask for a redo and and almost
(27:05):
select a new piece of map paperand and put down stakes and
allow life to do the folding.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Some people look at their inner landscape, and this
happens in our one-to-oneconversations a lot, and that is
someone will talk about, youknow, a time in their life where
there's a lot of struggle andthey may say something in our
one-to-one conversation Like Ihaven't talked about this in 10
years, but it's still there andthey don't have it on display,
(27:31):
but they will remind themselvesthrough reflection of how
important that struggle was.
The converse is also true.
I've had several conversationswith people where they will talk
about a part of their life thatwas fantastic.
They felt so alive, everythingwas going right and it's as this
time of abundance andflourishing and sustainability.
(27:54):
But no one knows that part ofthe map because for some reason,
they're just in a differentlandscape altogether, but still
they have this rich part oftheir life just there, and I
think that that's part of why wecontinue to move forward.
I read somewhere about maps inpreparation for today, and
whoever was writing was talkingabout how maps are always in
(28:18):
movement and they didn't saythat we are moving through the
map.
They were saying maps are alwaysin movement and they didn't say
that we are moving through themap.
They were saying maps are alwaysin movement and the implication
is that, like our physicalbeing, is itself a map and it's
moving, it's changing, it'sevolving and it's growing.
And that reminded me ofsomething else about the nature
of maps.
So this is just I don't know ifit's just how my little quirky
(28:39):
mind works, but as I look atsomeone's map, I think that
there are different seasonsrepresented on the maps as well.
And just because you're goingthrough a time where you feel
like the leaves are falling offand everything's getting barren,
there's a reason why we'rejourneying through that season
of our map because there's aspring that's coming.
(29:00):
And sometimes just thatunderstanding and Linda and I
had these conversations too oflike this isn't forever, it's
just for now, this is temporary,we know that a new season's
coming, and just that reminderof the seasonal nature of the
landscapes that we live in it'sjust part of, I think, what it
means to be human and also, inthis, to remind ourselves that
(29:23):
through every season there is anintentional shaping that's
happening for the preparationfor what's coming next, and to
understand that shaping willnever cease.
Shaping is always happening.
I'm just, I don't even, I don'tthere's just so much there.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
There's so much, and I think it there's so much, that
it starts to feel complicatedand sometimes the questions are
okay well, am I supposed to knowthis map?
Or how big should it be andwhat color should it be?
And is it supposed to be this,these dimensions?
And once again we're inviting alittle bit more simplicity.
(30:03):
Use a question like aspringboard what does your map
look like?
Where was a place of growth,pivot challenge, change?
What was a map of the literalmap of the neighborhood you grew
up in?
of the neighborhood you grew upin Right.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
What story is that map?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
telling about you, and we find that using the
metaphor of map gets peoplethinking out of the everyday.
It's a question that theyhaven't wrestled with.
I remember the first time thatI asked our daughter she was
maybe 10.
I asked her like well, who doyou sit next to in class?
(30:47):
And she had so much fundescribing it that she's like
can I do it for my next class?
She mapped out all of herclasses where the teacher would
walk.
She was using this metaphor asa map of a seating chart to
teach me, to invite me intowhere she lives and how she
(31:08):
navigates every day.
So we don't want to get woundaround like, well, what is this
right or wrong?
Use it as a springboard.
Even when you hear map, whatkind of map are you seeing and
experiencing?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
One of the things I think is really important to
this conversation is to remindourselves that we're not alone
in the interpretation of ourinner landscape.
There are so many people in ourlives that have been a part of
our lives, that are part of ourlives now or that are coming to
help us read, to interpret andto navigate how it is that we're
understanding ourselves now, tounderstand where we've come
(31:45):
from and to help prepare us forwhat's going forward.
And so, in this process, I thinkthat it's helpful for all of us
to be reminded, to ask for helpfrom various teachers and
mentors and coaches and guides,and just the wise people that
are around us to help usunderstand what some of the next
steps are, understand how toget stuck.
(32:06):
Sometimes it's important toremind us that we're in a valley
and we mistook it for amountaintop.
There's just something aboutthe nature where we emotionally
get lost, and in thatemotionally getting lost, we
mistakenly identify thelandmarks for what they're not,
because we perceive them to besomething different than they
actually are.
And sometimes it just takes anew set of eyes to look at where
(32:31):
we are and to help usunderstand that we're not lost.
We are actually right where weneed to be, and we simply needed
to ask for help to understandwhich direction to take the next
step.
There are people there to helpus.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
And then true, brian Shubring fashion.
These teachers all start withthe letter E.
So, teachers are brought to youby the letter E.
How will you interpret your mapE?
Experts are those that areexperienced among you.
Next is explorers those thatwill help you understand where
(33:04):
you've been and maybe invite youto take paths that are unknown.
It's also important to have theemotions that are swirling
around you.
That's good.
And the fourth one isentertainers brought to you by
(33:32):
the letter E.
Brian, you speak about that,Entertainers.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I've learned that there are just times in life
where you just need to beentertained.
Entertainers I've learned thatthere are just times in life
where you just need to beentertained and there are people
that are near to you.
That just have a joke to tell,a turn of phrase that really
helps lighten your perspective.
What do you call the wife of ahippie?
A.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Mississippi, a Mississippi Like even that?
I mean, that's not exactly howit's going.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Insert like the applause there in the podcast,
like just make it real nice,right right right, right, right,
right, right.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
So thinking about what are your maps and who are
going to help you understand thereading of your maps?
Speaker 3 (34:13):
That's good, brian and Linda.
We've given people a lot tothink about.
There's a lot of sort ofmetaphor, there's some very
practical things.
We didn't even necessarily getinto the unfolding and refolding
part.
That's going to be anotherepisode, but if you were to
summarize or create some sort ofvery succinct final thought,
(34:33):
I'm going to ask both of you todo this separately.
What would that be?
As we talk about maps and theimportant role that they play in
our lives, and my invitationfor all of us is to trust the
map.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
There are so many things that are hidden within
our own landscape that are therefor us to discover, to help us
along the way, and my hope isthat we take the time to
discover something new every daythat will help us in leading
the way.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Because in doing so you learn to love your map, to
not be ashamed of it, not justhide it away, but put dignity
and compassion towards howyou've been created and wired
and how you go about your life.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Thank you for listening to the Leadership
Vision Podcast, our show helpingyou build positive team culture
.
If you found value from thisepisode or any of our other
resources, we would appreciateit.
If you would subscribe to ouremail newsletter, follow us in
all the socials and, perhapsmost importantly, share this
with someone you think couldbenefit from this.
And if you haven't picked upyour copy of Unfolded Lessons in
(35:48):
Transformation from an OrigamiCrane, make sure to get yours on
Amazon or wherever good booksare sold.
I'm Nathan Friberg.
I'm Linda Shubring.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
And I'm Brian Shubring.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
And on behalf of our entire team, thanks for
listening.
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