October 13, 2025 • 22 mins
Nathan and Brian revisit a 2019 conversation after Nathan’s recent family trip to Paris and his first in-person encounter with Notre Dame’s rose window—the inspiration for the Leadership Vision logo. They explore why place matters for leaders and teams, considering it as an anchor, symbol, intersection, and invitation. From the transept metaphor of waiting to the role of shared team retreats and simple artifacts, this episode offers a practical lens for integrating place into culture.
What You’ll Learn
- How physical spaces and symbols shape identity and leadership
- Why returning to meaningful places (pilgrimage) deepens clarity and connection
- Ways to create “shared places” and artifacts for your team
- Reflection prompts to identify the places shaping you now
Reflection Questions
- What places have shaped who you are—and why do they matter now?
- Which “shared place” could your team adopt (and regularly return to)?
- What symbol or artifact could serve as a daily reminder of your values?
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Read the full blog post here!
CONTACT US
- email: connect@leadershipvisionconsulting.com
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ABOUT
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about our work,you can click the link in the
show notes or visit us on theweb at Leadership Vision
Consulting.com.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Freeberg, and in today's
(00:21):
episode, we're exploring theidea of place.
Those physical spaces that shapeus, that mark us, and become
part of who we are.
Sometimes a place is acathedral, a mountain, or a
childhood home.
Other times it's an office, aretreat space, or even a symbol
that anchors our team.
Recently, I was in Paris, Francewith my family and had the
(00:43):
opportunity to see Notre DameCathedral and the Rose Window in
person for the very first time.
It was an incredible experienceand it immediately reminded me
of a conversation that Brian andI recorded back in 2019, shortly
after the fire at Notre Dame,when we reflected on the power
of symbols and the story behindour own leadership vision logo,
(01:05):
which was inspired by thatquatre foil at the center of the
very same rose window.
So today I wanted to revisitthat 2019 conversation with
Brian, not only to reflect aNotre Dame in our logo, but more
importantly to explore how placeinfluences our stories, our
teams, and the way we lead.
(01:33):
As you know, because we'vetalked about this extensively, I
was recently in one of your mostfavorite places in the entire
world, Paris, France.
First time I've ever been there,and I loved it.
Have you uh ever gone to Parisand come back and be like, eh, I
don't think we need to go backthere anymore?
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
No, I get to Paris and think I'm never going back
there anymore.
Meaning here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
Here.
I know.
I know.
We were there uh just this pastAugust, so about a little over a
month ago, and we've alreadytalked about this a lot, but I
was just so blown away by howmany other places in the world
it feels like are trying toemulate Paris.
Or they're like kind of likethere's a few spots here in
(02:20):
Portland that have a lot of likelittle outdoor cafes, and by a
lot, I mean like three in a row.
And I was like, oh, this remindsme of that place on Blah Blah
Blah Street in Portland, or thisreminds me of that little
section of Disneyland, or thisreminds me of that place we were
at in this other city, thistown, or you know, whatever it
is.
And Malia was like, Yeah,they're all trying to be Paris.
(02:40):
This is like Paris invented thiswhole like cafe culture, being
outside, slowing down uh thepace of life, and just being a
place where you can come andkind of well, I guess, rest,
reflect, whatever you want.
So before we get into all thisstuff about place, like what I I
don't know, in a I don't know ifyou can make it a brief word,
(03:01):
but like what does Paris mean toyou?
SPEAKER_01 (03:05):
What does Paris mean to me?
How's that for God?
Um how's that for a quick start?
Paris has a foundational elementin my life because when I when I
go to Paris, it's perhaps theplace that has the most bedrock
to it when it comes tounderstanding who I am.
Interesting.
(03:25):
Um Paris is probably one of thecities in the world that I've
have visited the most.
We get there about every otheryear at least.
And when I go there, I feelinstantly at home, but it's not
in a way that is like, you know,this enthralled and in awe.
It is just this sense ofgrounding and firm footing that
(03:45):
I have when I'm there.
And I can't specifically saywhat the individual elements
are.
It's just many, many elementslayered on top of each other
that just means so much to me.
And part of it is because Parishas also served as an
intersection or a hub, if youwill, to all the other travels
that we've done throughoutEurope.
(04:06):
We either begin in Paris and goout from there, or we end in
Paris and come home from there.
So there seems to be like thisintersection of we always are
stopping through there for somereason.
So at any era and epoch of mylife, uh, Paris has played a
significant role.
The place, the people, theculture, the language, and the
things that have happened.
(04:26):
So it has a very bedrock kind ofimpact on who I am as a person.
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
I like that.
And Paris is uh for the purposesof this idea of place, that's
kind of your place.
And so what we're asking peopleto do here today is just sort of
think about a place that hassome sort of anchoring,
grounding.
Uh, like you said, back in that2019 conversation after Notre
(04:54):
Dame burnt, which that's thatwas almost six, a little over
six years ago, and it's justamazing.
We we can't get into that, butthe restoration is absolutely
amazing.
So in that episode, we talkedabout logo and symbols, and the
leadership vision logo is fromthe Rose window, which is the
south big window when you walkin and turn to the right, and I
had a chance to see it inperson.
(05:15):
And it was so cool for mehearing you tell this story for
the first time, probably back in2008, as just this sort of
random thing that for I don'tknow how many years is like, all
right, drag this onto our blogpost, drag this onto our social
media.
Like, I've seen this image somany times, and then to see it
(05:36):
in person, I was like, huh.
Yeah, look at look at that.
That's you know, all of thatmeaning.
But I'm I where I want to go tothis with this conversation
today is uh so back in 2019, wetalked about kind of that
anchoring place in leadershipvisions identity.
I'm curious now, six yearslater, and the company has gone
(05:56):
through several changes ofidentity.
I'm curious how your anchoringidea, your idea of place,
physical or symbolic, whateverit is, how has that changed?
How has that deepened?
How has that become somethingthat you know other leaders can
think about to enhance oraugment their leadership in some
(06:17):
way?
SPEAKER_01 (06:18):
Well, how it's changed over time is it's
changed in its practice.
Every time Linda and I introduceourselves in front of a group,
regardless of size, we'll talkabout how each of us have our
own orientation to the work thatwe do, where Linda approaches
people first, I approach placefirst.
So my understanding of the rolethat place plays, not only with
(06:40):
within my life, but to helpother people understand the way
place plays a shaping element intheir life, that's where the
deepening has happened.
Yes, it's a it is the symbol ofthe company.
Like I knew that that was thesymbol, you know, 26 years ago.
Um, and the symbolic nature ofplace, I think, is also
important.
(07:00):
And that's the bridge that Iwant to create is specific
places can symbolize moments andtimes.
Places can also symbolize greatperiods of our life.
And what I would challenge ourlisteners to consider is what
are some of those places thathave really shaped who you are,
(07:20):
where you would say, withoutthat place, I wouldn't be the
person that I am.
And then to ask a secondquestion: what is it about that
place that has had such ashaping influence and why is
that important for me today?
So when we take Notre Dame, forexample, the reason why it's so
important for me is because youknow, these medieval cathedrals
(07:42):
are built in the shape of across, and the center of that
cross is called the transept.
And so when you sit in thetransept, you are literally in
the center of this greatintersection.
And that to me is so huge as aninterpretive part of who I am as
a person, is many places in mylife are important because they
serve as intersections.
(08:04):
An intersection I don't that Idon't have to move through, but
an intersection that I can waitin to wait for and answer.
And Nathan, so many times whenI've sat in that transept, I
I've sat there wondering what'snext, or wondering how did I get
here, or wondering who's cominginto this place that's going to
(08:25):
be with me for this next era ofmy life.
So that that waiting in place,the receiving in place, that's
how my definition has changedand evolved over time.
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
Yeah, that I that idea of transformation is so
real, and I can't help but thinkabout how in folded Yulinda
describe life's folds as shapinghow we are.
And so I'm wondering how dothose physical places,
cathedrals, you know, mountains,you know, childhood homes, all
that stuff I mentioned in in thein the intro, how how do those
(08:59):
places so now not for you, butyou know, for someone else, how
do we use those experiences,those places to teach us
something about ourselves, toteach us um who we are?
And, you know, one of the bigideas in the book is that we're
made of these maps and thateverything that we need is
inside of us.
How can we maybe identify acouple of those and then use
(09:19):
them as teachers?
SPEAKER_01 (09:21):
Places help us understand how we're feeling.
Uh, places can help us findclarity into what we're
thinking.
Um, places are also full ofpeople and the roles those
people play.
And I also believe that placesare invitations to engage the
transcendent, like somethingmuch bigger than where we are
right now.
And that place in Notre Dame, itrepresents all those things.
(09:43):
It's an emotional experience,it's relational because there
are people there that gatherfrom around the world
representing a collectiveculture and individual cultures.
Being in Notre Dame itself likefocuses my thinking and expands
it.
And it's also a transcendentexperience, a reminder that
there's something greater that'shappening here.
(10:04):
So paying attention to howyou're feeling, paying attention
to what you're thinking about,paying attention to the people
that are with you, the peoplethat are around you, and the
vast expanse of these places.
That's one of the ways that wecan receive the meaning that
places have to offer.
Nathan, it's like when you and Iwere talking about when you're
in the Alps, was it inSwitzerland with your kids?
(10:26):
Yeah.
And your kids asking, is itreal?
Like, like in that moment, youknow, what was it?
Was it the ex the the thebigness that they were
overwhelmed with?
Or like what was that experiencelike for them?
Like, how did that place evokethat comment?
SPEAKER_00 (10:40):
Yeah, what was so crazy.
So we stayed this little thislittle village, Mirin, up in the
Alps, and we were like just onthe side of the mountain, and we
had this beautiful clear day,and they're like, This doesn't
seem real.
It seems like a painting.
My 12-year-old was like, Is youknow, is this in HD?
And I was just so like, thesekids HD.
(11:01):
And we live on the West Coast,like we live in a beautiful
place, but there was somethingabout the bigness and our
smallness.
We did a bunch of hikings in themountain, and we just I think
felt so small.
The kids were like, This isalmost so beautiful, it must be,
I don't know, AI generated or orsomething else.
But it was, I mean, all of us,all six of us, like this, that
(11:24):
was our that was our place onthis trip.
It was for so many differentreasons.
You know, when when we thinkabout back on like memories that
we've had in our life, is likewhat was it that that caused us
to pause?
What was it that made us thinkabout who we are and how we
exist in the world, how weinteract with people, what role
(11:45):
did we have to play?
You know, all of those things.
And sometimes I wonder if we wegloss over those and we are just
on to the next thing and wedon't take time to really sit
and appreciate and realize oh,this this part of my life, this
this place, like whatever, thatwasn't just flyover.
(12:07):
That was like a profoundly a bigpart of who I am today.
And I do that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
That's the power of yeah, that totally makes sense,
Nathan.
That's the power of place.
The questions that you're askingare the questions that we all
ask ourselves, and it happenedin a place that put the daily
concerns that we carry intotheir right perspective.
Yeah, you know, sometimes wethink our concerns about or
whatever it is are mountains,like they're that big in our
(12:36):
imagination, but then whenyou're in a specific place, it
really resets our misconceptionof how important some things
are.
SPEAKER_00 (12:48):
It was so interesting when we were in
Notre Dame.
Well, a few observations I wantto make and just get to your
thoughts.
So we have four kids.
Our youngest, I think, washaving the biggest struggle with
the time change and was justkind of not having a great day.
So we're literally chasing heraround that transom area that
(13:10):
you're talking about.
And when you were sharing thatearlier, I was like, wow, Brian
and I have had a very differentexperience.
We're chasing her around thechoir.
Yeah, around that middle area,he's sitting there reflecting.
Maybe it wasn't exactly in thetransome.
Oh, and we're like, oh my gosh,this is so embarrassing.
How do we get her to settle downand behave?
So we basically got in and weessentially did a lap, you know,
(13:32):
around the outside as you do.
And there's a couple areas whereyou can sit and have a prayerful
reflection as the hundreds andhundreds of tourists are just
going by you.
And so our family did that, andit was this crazy moment for me
thinking about the beheadings Ithink that happened there during
the French Revolution, Napoleon,uh Joan of like all of these
(13:56):
historic moments, and thenhere's little old me sitting
there while I'm trying to get mymy kids to behave, trying to
have this spiritual moment, youknow, the person who's literally
leaning on the no picture signis taking a picture, like all
these things happen at once, andit just made me kind of reflect
on how places are mean so manydifferent things to so many
(14:19):
different people.
And so, in some ways, you youhave to uh I think capture and
sort of harness and say, like,this is what this place means to
me, and and it means somethingtotally different to you.
SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
And that's the importance of this conversation,
in my opinion, is to ask peopleto reflect on the places that
have a significant and importantshaping influence in their life,
and to own that place or to namethat place as significant for
what it provided and to rememberthe importance not only of being
(14:58):
there, but maybe the importanceof returning there.
Part of what I practice is thesense of pilgrimage to the
places that I think are the mostimportant to my life, and these
are very, very specific placesin the world, and I tend to get
to them every year, if not everytwo years.
(15:21):
And for me, the anticipation ofgoing somewhere where you know
that you're going to have thismoment of reflection and
connection and transcendence.
I think the pilgrimage itselfteaches you something about who
you are.
Because Nathan, you also know aplace that we've both been to,
you also know that one of my toptwo favorite places in the world
(15:43):
is in Kapalua on the island ofMaui in Hawaii.
The anticipation of being thereevery year, like I get so
excited for the day that wedrive up there and just sit
there when I, you know, or whenI run to that area, there's just
there are pl so many placeswithin that one place that I
(16:04):
tend to go, that Linda tends togo, that we bring our family to,
that have such a significant andprofound impact on my life
because of the reflective naturethat I have when I'm there.
It's a specific place with avery specific topography, a very
specific climate, and all thatseems to just awaken and bring
(16:24):
life to me.
And I just name it as this isone of my places.
SPEAKER_00 (16:28):
Yeah, I'm not ashamed to say it.
It's um so in closing, I've afew thoughts.
So we need a new pan at ourhouse.
SPEAKER_01 (16:38):
And you just call a fancy new coffee maker.
SPEAKER_00 (16:41):
I know, and I'm like, we need a new pan, and
Malia's like, all right.
And I was like, We heard a hexclad, Brian Linda have this hex
clad, Gordon Ramsey, and shejust starts laughing.
I was like, what?
Malia?
Yeah.
She's like, Of course BrianLinda have the pan that you
want.
And I was like, She's right.
Yeah.
And because, you know, thecoffee maker, and as I was
(17:02):
preparing for this, and even asyou were talking there, I was
just kind of thinking about howlike we share a lot of places.
We share a lot of things, not inthe same way.
Like Kapalua is one of thosealso one of those places.
Now Paris is, and it's kind offun.
And I'm just a quick reflectionI'd ask you to ref to answer is
you know, as a team, LeadershipVision now has some places, some
(17:25):
some things, uh, frying pans anda coffee maker, that are uh
significant and maybe kind ofsilly and fun to share.
Like our running shoes aroundthe room.
Our running shoes, I mean, oh, Ididn't even think about that or
talk about that side of it.
But I guess my my point is as ateam, we have these shared
things, these places, thesepeoples, what people, whatever.
I'm wondering how important isthat for a team?
(17:46):
And would you encourage teams toidentify those shaping things
that not only have significancefor them as individuals, but as
a team they can point to andsay, this place, this retreat,
this thing, and what benefitdoes that have?
And then we'll kind of close itout from there.
SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
Well, sharing those places with you are certainly
not accidental because the twomost important places in my life
are Kapalua, the second one isPortugal, and you've been to
both.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
The foundational place is Paris,and you've been there.
Now we've been there.
And the most euphoric andcelebrated place is Boston.
(18:23):
Yeah, you've been there.
Yeah.
So of all the places that Iconsider the most important in
my life, Nathan, you've beenthere.
And the reason why that'simportant in this conversation
is this when I find places thathave that level of significance
to me, I want to share them withthose that I care about.
I want to bring my friendsthere.
I I want to bring people there.
(18:44):
I want to bring our daughter toall these places so that she has
a sense of just the experience.
I'm not expecting it to mean thesame thing, but I want to share
these meaningful places withothers so they can have that
experience or so that we canhave that experience together.
And that's why I think, youknow, for teams, whether it's a
place or a certain kind ofpractice, there's something that
(19:05):
happens when you gather togetherin a place that doesn't happen
when you gather together in aplace that's that's normal.
When the place is specific,something specific and special
happens.
And so I I really encourageleaders to think about where are
the places that we go?
What do we do when our team istogether in those places?
Because it's more likely thatyou're going to create not only
(19:27):
significant memories, butsignificant relational
connections between your teammembers when you disrupt the
normality of place and insertsomething that's unique and
grand.
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
Brian, thank you for having us conversation and
revisiting this idea of NotreDame and place and all the
things that are important to us.
And thank you for listening tothe Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
If you found value from thisepisode or any of our episodes,
we would appreciate it if youcould follow us.
(20:01):
Podcast, social, join our email,newsletter, all the stuff.
If you'd like to get moreinformation about building a
positive team culture, you canvisit us on the web at
Leadership Vision Consulting.comor click the link in the show
notes.
My name is Nathan Freeberg.
And I'm still Brian Schuberg.
And on behalf of our entireteam, thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
I think that there's one place in our lives that
you've not been to is SugarLake.
Ah, yes.
Like that's the only place.
And the river for you, like I'mI I've not been in that place
that you go Sun Sun River, Iknow.
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
Yeah.
What is funny, my experience inParis is very different than
your experience in Paris, justbecause of the kids and just
everything.
And what I think is is cool isjust that it's like when you
meet someone like from yourhometown or your high school or
who is a shared sports fan.
It's like you immediately have ashorthand that until a month
ago, like we didn't have in thatarea.
SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
I know, man.
The thing in 2019, holy crap,like that was I couldn't believe
that podcast.
What was I talking about?
Like I'm thinking, wow.
SPEAKER_00 (21:07):
Well, and that's yeah, I mean, we could we could
record another one and justunpack all of that.
Like, I still believe in thesymbol like that.
SPEAKER_01 (21:14):
Like just the whole connection surrounded by
purpose, and I mean just totallyand you know, the the points of
connection, the points ofpressure.
I mean, all that stuff isreally, really it's still who I
am.
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about our work,you can click the link in the
show notes or visit us on theweb at Leadership Vision
Consulting.com.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Freeberg, and in today's
(00:21):
episode, we're exploring theidea of place.
Those physical spaces that shapeus, that mark us, and become
part of who we are.
Sometimes a place is acathedral, a mountain, or a
childhood home.
Other times it's an office, aretreat space, or even a symbol
that anchors our team.
Recently, I was in Paris, Francewith my family and had the
(00:43):
opportunity to see Notre DameCathedral and the Rose Window in
person for the very first time.
It was an incredible experienceand it immediately reminded me
of a conversation that Brian andI recorded back in 2019, shortly
after the fire at Notre Dame,when we reflected on the power
of symbols and the story behindour own leadership vision logo,
(01:05):
which was inspired by thatquatre foil at the center of the
very same rose window.
So today I wanted to revisitthat 2019 conversation with
Brian, not only to reflect aNotre Dame in our logo, but more
importantly to explore how placeinfluences our stories, our
teams, and the way we lead.
(01:33):
As you know, because we'vetalked about this extensively, I
was recently in one of your mostfavorite places in the entire
world, Paris, France.
First time I've ever been there,and I loved it.
Have you uh ever gone to Parisand come back and be like, eh, I
don't think we need to go backthere anymore?
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
No, I get to Paris and think I'm never going back
there anymore.
Meaning here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
Here.
I know.
I know.
We were there uh just this pastAugust, so about a little over a
month ago, and we've alreadytalked about this a lot, but I
was just so blown away by howmany other places in the world
it feels like are trying toemulate Paris.
Or they're like kind of likethere's a few spots here in
(02:20):
Portland that have a lot of likelittle outdoor cafes, and by a
lot, I mean like three in a row.
And I was like, oh, this remindsme of that place on Blah Blah
Blah Street in Portland, or thisreminds me of that little
section of Disneyland, or thisreminds me of that place we were
at in this other city, thistown, or you know, whatever it
is.
And Malia was like, Yeah,they're all trying to be Paris.
(02:40):
This is like Paris invented thiswhole like cafe culture, being
outside, slowing down uh thepace of life, and just being a
place where you can come andkind of well, I guess, rest,
reflect, whatever you want.
So before we get into all thisstuff about place, like what I I
don't know, in a I don't know ifyou can make it a brief word,
(03:01):
but like what does Paris mean toyou?
SPEAKER_01 (03:05):
What does Paris mean to me?
How's that for God?
Um how's that for a quick start?
Paris has a foundational elementin my life because when I when I
go to Paris, it's perhaps theplace that has the most bedrock
to it when it comes tounderstanding who I am.
Interesting.
(03:25):
Um Paris is probably one of thecities in the world that I've
have visited the most.
We get there about every otheryear at least.
And when I go there, I feelinstantly at home, but it's not
in a way that is like, you know,this enthralled and in awe.
It is just this sense ofgrounding and firm footing that
(03:45):
I have when I'm there.
And I can't specifically saywhat the individual elements
are.
It's just many, many elementslayered on top of each other
that just means so much to me.
And part of it is because Parishas also served as an
intersection or a hub, if youwill, to all the other travels
that we've done throughoutEurope.
(04:06):
We either begin in Paris and goout from there, or we end in
Paris and come home from there.
So there seems to be like thisintersection of we always are
stopping through there for somereason.
So at any era and epoch of mylife, uh, Paris has played a
significant role.
The place, the people, theculture, the language, and the
things that have happened.
(04:26):
So it has a very bedrock kind ofimpact on who I am as a person.
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
I like that.
And Paris is uh for the purposesof this idea of place, that's
kind of your place.
And so what we're asking peopleto do here today is just sort of
think about a place that hassome sort of anchoring,
grounding.
Uh, like you said, back in that2019 conversation after Notre
(04:54):
Dame burnt, which that's thatwas almost six, a little over
six years ago, and it's justamazing.
We we can't get into that, butthe restoration is absolutely
amazing.
So in that episode, we talkedabout logo and symbols, and the
leadership vision logo is fromthe Rose window, which is the
south big window when you walkin and turn to the right, and I
had a chance to see it inperson.
(05:15):
And it was so cool for mehearing you tell this story for
the first time, probably back in2008, as just this sort of
random thing that for I don'tknow how many years is like, all
right, drag this onto our blogpost, drag this onto our social
media.
Like, I've seen this image somany times, and then to see it
(05:36):
in person, I was like, huh.
Yeah, look at look at that.
That's you know, all of thatmeaning.
But I'm I where I want to go tothis with this conversation
today is uh so back in 2019, wetalked about kind of that
anchoring place in leadershipvisions identity.
I'm curious now, six yearslater, and the company has gone
(05:56):
through several changes ofidentity.
I'm curious how your anchoringidea, your idea of place,
physical or symbolic, whateverit is, how has that changed?
How has that deepened?
How has that become somethingthat you know other leaders can
think about to enhance oraugment their leadership in some
(06:17):
way?
SPEAKER_01 (06:18):
Well, how it's changed over time is it's
changed in its practice.
Every time Linda and I introduceourselves in front of a group,
regardless of size, we'll talkabout how each of us have our
own orientation to the work thatwe do, where Linda approaches
people first, I approach placefirst.
So my understanding of the rolethat place plays, not only with
(06:40):
within my life, but to helpother people understand the way
place plays a shaping element intheir life, that's where the
deepening has happened.
Yes, it's a it is the symbol ofthe company.
Like I knew that that was thesymbol, you know, 26 years ago.
Um, and the symbolic nature ofplace, I think, is also
important.
(07:00):
And that's the bridge that Iwant to create is specific
places can symbolize moments andtimes.
Places can also symbolize greatperiods of our life.
And what I would challenge ourlisteners to consider is what
are some of those places thathave really shaped who you are,
(07:20):
where you would say, withoutthat place, I wouldn't be the
person that I am.
And then to ask a secondquestion: what is it about that
place that has had such ashaping influence and why is
that important for me today?
So when we take Notre Dame, forexample, the reason why it's so
important for me is because youknow, these medieval cathedrals
(07:42):
are built in the shape of across, and the center of that
cross is called the transept.
And so when you sit in thetransept, you are literally in
the center of this greatintersection.
And that to me is so huge as aninterpretive part of who I am as
a person, is many places in mylife are important because they
serve as intersections.
(08:04):
An intersection I don't that Idon't have to move through, but
an intersection that I can waitin to wait for and answer.
And Nathan, so many times whenI've sat in that transept, I
I've sat there wondering what'snext, or wondering how did I get
here, or wondering who's cominginto this place that's going to
(08:25):
be with me for this next era ofmy life.
So that that waiting in place,the receiving in place, that's
how my definition has changedand evolved over time.
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
Yeah, that I that idea of transformation is so
real, and I can't help but thinkabout how in folded Yulinda
describe life's folds as shapinghow we are.
And so I'm wondering how dothose physical places,
cathedrals, you know, mountains,you know, childhood homes, all
that stuff I mentioned in in thein the intro, how how do those
(08:59):
places so now not for you, butyou know, for someone else, how
do we use those experiences,those places to teach us
something about ourselves, toteach us um who we are?
And, you know, one of the bigideas in the book is that we're
made of these maps and thateverything that we need is
inside of us.
How can we maybe identify acouple of those and then use
(09:19):
them as teachers?
SPEAKER_01 (09:21):
Places help us understand how we're feeling.
Uh, places can help us findclarity into what we're
thinking.
Um, places are also full ofpeople and the roles those
people play.
And I also believe that placesare invitations to engage the
transcendent, like somethingmuch bigger than where we are
right now.
And that place in Notre Dame, itrepresents all those things.
(09:43):
It's an emotional experience,it's relational because there
are people there that gatherfrom around the world
representing a collectiveculture and individual cultures.
Being in Notre Dame itself likefocuses my thinking and expands
it.
And it's also a transcendentexperience, a reminder that
there's something greater that'shappening here.
(10:04):
So paying attention to howyou're feeling, paying attention
to what you're thinking about,paying attention to the people
that are with you, the peoplethat are around you, and the
vast expanse of these places.
That's one of the ways that wecan receive the meaning that
places have to offer.
Nathan, it's like when you and Iwere talking about when you're
in the Alps, was it inSwitzerland with your kids?
(10:26):
Yeah.
And your kids asking, is itreal?
Like, like in that moment, youknow, what was it?
Was it the ex the the thebigness that they were
overwhelmed with?
Or like what was that experiencelike for them?
Like, how did that place evokethat comment?
SPEAKER_00 (10:40):
Yeah, what was so crazy.
So we stayed this little thislittle village, Mirin, up in the
Alps, and we were like just onthe side of the mountain, and we
had this beautiful clear day,and they're like, This doesn't
seem real.
It seems like a painting.
My 12-year-old was like, Is youknow, is this in HD?
And I was just so like, thesekids HD.
(11:01):
And we live on the West Coast,like we live in a beautiful
place, but there was somethingabout the bigness and our
smallness.
We did a bunch of hikings in themountain, and we just I think
felt so small.
The kids were like, This isalmost so beautiful, it must be,
I don't know, AI generated or orsomething else.
But it was, I mean, all of us,all six of us, like this, that
(11:24):
was our that was our place onthis trip.
It was for so many differentreasons.
You know, when when we thinkabout back on like memories that
we've had in our life, is likewhat was it that that caused us
to pause?
What was it that made us thinkabout who we are and how we
exist in the world, how weinteract with people, what role
(11:45):
did we have to play?
You know, all of those things.
And sometimes I wonder if we wegloss over those and we are just
on to the next thing and wedon't take time to really sit
and appreciate and realize oh,this this part of my life, this
this place, like whatever, thatwasn't just flyover.
(12:07):
That was like a profoundly a bigpart of who I am today.
And I do that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
That's the power of yeah, that totally makes sense,
Nathan.
That's the power of place.
The questions that you're askingare the questions that we all
ask ourselves, and it happenedin a place that put the daily
concerns that we carry intotheir right perspective.
Yeah, you know, sometimes wethink our concerns about or
whatever it is are mountains,like they're that big in our
(12:36):
imagination, but then whenyou're in a specific place, it
really resets our misconceptionof how important some things
are.
SPEAKER_00 (12:48):
It was so interesting when we were in
Notre Dame.
Well, a few observations I wantto make and just get to your
thoughts.
So we have four kids.
Our youngest, I think, washaving the biggest struggle with
the time change and was justkind of not having a great day.
So we're literally chasing heraround that transom area that
(13:10):
you're talking about.
And when you were sharing thatearlier, I was like, wow, Brian
and I have had a very differentexperience.
We're chasing her around thechoir.
Yeah, around that middle area,he's sitting there reflecting.
Maybe it wasn't exactly in thetransome.
Oh, and we're like, oh my gosh,this is so embarrassing.
How do we get her to settle downand behave?
So we basically got in and weessentially did a lap, you know,
(13:32):
around the outside as you do.
And there's a couple areas whereyou can sit and have a prayerful
reflection as the hundreds andhundreds of tourists are just
going by you.
And so our family did that, andit was this crazy moment for me
thinking about the beheadings Ithink that happened there during
the French Revolution, Napoleon,uh Joan of like all of these
(13:56):
historic moments, and thenhere's little old me sitting
there while I'm trying to get mymy kids to behave, trying to
have this spiritual moment, youknow, the person who's literally
leaning on the no picture signis taking a picture, like all
these things happen at once, andit just made me kind of reflect
on how places are mean so manydifferent things to so many
(14:19):
different people.
And so, in some ways, you youhave to uh I think capture and
sort of harness and say, like,this is what this place means to
me, and and it means somethingtotally different to you.
SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
And that's the importance of this conversation,
in my opinion, is to ask peopleto reflect on the places that
have a significant and importantshaping influence in their life,
and to own that place or to namethat place as significant for
what it provided and to rememberthe importance not only of being
(14:58):
there, but maybe the importanceof returning there.
Part of what I practice is thesense of pilgrimage to the
places that I think are the mostimportant to my life, and these
are very, very specific placesin the world, and I tend to get
to them every year, if not everytwo years.
(15:21):
And for me, the anticipation ofgoing somewhere where you know
that you're going to have thismoment of reflection and
connection and transcendence.
I think the pilgrimage itselfteaches you something about who
you are.
Because Nathan, you also know aplace that we've both been to,
you also know that one of my toptwo favorite places in the world
(15:43):
is in Kapalua on the island ofMaui in Hawaii.
The anticipation of being thereevery year, like I get so
excited for the day that wedrive up there and just sit
there when I, you know, or whenI run to that area, there's just
there are pl so many placeswithin that one place that I
(16:04):
tend to go, that Linda tends togo, that we bring our family to,
that have such a significant andprofound impact on my life
because of the reflective naturethat I have when I'm there.
It's a specific place with avery specific topography, a very
specific climate, and all thatseems to just awaken and bring
(16:24):
life to me.
And I just name it as this isone of my places.
SPEAKER_00 (16:28):
Yeah, I'm not ashamed to say it.
It's um so in closing, I've afew thoughts.
So we need a new pan at ourhouse.
SPEAKER_01 (16:38):
And you just call a fancy new coffee maker.
SPEAKER_00 (16:41):
I know, and I'm like, we need a new pan, and
Malia's like, all right.
And I was like, We heard a hexclad, Brian Linda have this hex
clad, Gordon Ramsey, and shejust starts laughing.
I was like, what?
Malia?
Yeah.
She's like, Of course BrianLinda have the pan that you
want.
And I was like, She's right.
Yeah.
And because, you know, thecoffee maker, and as I was
(17:02):
preparing for this, and even asyou were talking there, I was
just kind of thinking about howlike we share a lot of places.
We share a lot of things, not inthe same way.
Like Kapalua is one of thosealso one of those places.
Now Paris is, and it's kind offun.
And I'm just a quick reflectionI'd ask you to ref to answer is
you know, as a team, LeadershipVision now has some places, some
(17:25):
some things, uh, frying pans anda coffee maker, that are uh
significant and maybe kind ofsilly and fun to share.
Like our running shoes aroundthe room.
Our running shoes, I mean, oh, Ididn't even think about that or
talk about that side of it.
But I guess my my point is as ateam, we have these shared
things, these places, thesepeoples, what people, whatever.
I'm wondering how important isthat for a team?
(17:46):
And would you encourage teams toidentify those shaping things
that not only have significancefor them as individuals, but as
a team they can point to andsay, this place, this retreat,
this thing, and what benefitdoes that have?
And then we'll kind of close itout from there.
SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
Well, sharing those places with you are certainly
not accidental because the twomost important places in my life
are Kapalua, the second one isPortugal, and you've been to
both.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
The foundational place is Paris,and you've been there.
Now we've been there.
And the most euphoric andcelebrated place is Boston.
(18:23):
Yeah, you've been there.
Yeah.
So of all the places that Iconsider the most important in
my life, Nathan, you've beenthere.
And the reason why that'simportant in this conversation
is this when I find places thathave that level of significance
to me, I want to share them withthose that I care about.
I want to bring my friendsthere.
I I want to bring people there.
(18:44):
I want to bring our daughter toall these places so that she has
a sense of just the experience.
I'm not expecting it to mean thesame thing, but I want to share
these meaningful places withothers so they can have that
experience or so that we canhave that experience together.
And that's why I think, youknow, for teams, whether it's a
place or a certain kind ofpractice, there's something that
(19:05):
happens when you gather togetherin a place that doesn't happen
when you gather together in aplace that's that's normal.
When the place is specific,something specific and special
happens.
And so I I really encourageleaders to think about where are
the places that we go?
What do we do when our team istogether in those places?
Because it's more likely thatyou're going to create not only
(19:27):
significant memories, butsignificant relational
connections between your teammembers when you disrupt the
normality of place and insertsomething that's unique and
grand.
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
Brian, thank you for having us conversation and
revisiting this idea of NotreDame and place and all the
things that are important to us.
And thank you for listening tothe Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
If you found value from thisepisode or any of our episodes,
we would appreciate it if youcould follow us.
(20:01):
Podcast, social, join our email,newsletter, all the stuff.
If you'd like to get moreinformation about building a
positive team culture, you canvisit us on the web at
Leadership Vision Consulting.comor click the link in the show
notes.
My name is Nathan Freeberg.
And I'm still Brian Schuberg.
And on behalf of our entireteam, thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
I think that there's one place in our lives that
you've not been to is SugarLake.
Ah, yes.
Like that's the only place.
And the river for you, like I'mI I've not been in that place
that you go Sun Sun River, Iknow.
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
Yeah.
What is funny, my experience inParis is very different than
your experience in Paris, justbecause of the kids and just
everything.
And what I think is is cool isjust that it's like when you
meet someone like from yourhometown or your high school or
who is a shared sports fan.
It's like you immediately have ashorthand that until a month
ago, like we didn't have in thatarea.
SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
I know, man.
The thing in 2019, holy crap,like that was I couldn't believe
that podcast.
What was I talking about?
Like I'm thinking, wow.
SPEAKER_00 (21:07):
Well, and that's yeah, I mean, we could we could
record another one and justunpack all of that.
Like, I still believe in thesymbol like that.
SPEAKER_01 (21:14):
Like just the whole connection surrounded by
purpose, and I mean just totallyand you know, the the points of
connection, the points ofpressure.
I mean, all that stuff isreally, really it's still who I
am.
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