The Leftovers with Jay, Jack + Mike: Ep. 3.08 "The Book of Nora"

Jay, Jack, and Mike talk about the series finale of “The Leftovers, titled, “The Book of Nora.” Join their Facebook page at www.facebook.com/groups/jayandjackgroup. Subscribe (MP3) l Become a Patron l Join Our Facebook Group

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
From Raleigh, North Carolina. It'sThe Leftovers with Jay and Jam, a
podcast dedicade to HBOS The Leftovers.So sit back, relax, and enjoy
the show. Hell Ry and welcometo Leftovers with Jay, Jack and Mike.
My name is Jay, my nameis Mike, and I feel like
we've done this before. And welcometo the show. How's it going,

(00:25):
guys? Outstanding? I was Internetnow, yeah, I was attacked with
the knicker nets and here we arewith Internet today. So apologize for this
podcast being a day later than usual, but it's hard to do it.
It's all Jay's fault. But we'renot gonna throw anybody under the bus.
Well I think, and Jay isactually bearing the real story, which is,

(00:47):
you know, when he gots Internetfixed, he actually got transported to
a world of people who thought theylost their Internet, but actually everyone else
had lost their Internet, right thetwo percent that didn't lose their Internet?
Right? Yes? So for forDamon almost pulled the opposite of the last
finale in which he promised to haveall the answers in the last finale but
didn't give him all of them.And then with the Leftovers final, I

(01:11):
said, I will not tell youwhat happened to the people or what happened
to people that departed? And hegives a said answer. I feel like
he made the better play with theLeftovers. What do you think, all
right, if we if we takeit at face value, that that's what
actually exactly we gotta put answers inquestion marks. But I actually really love
this finale's one. And I've alsobeen a vocal proponent of the Lost finale.

(01:34):
I'm not disparaging it nearly as muchas the Love. Yeah, it
does, but I would say thatI get a lot of satisfaction out of
this one as well, because Ifeel like Lost in the Leftovers, though
it does share a little bit ofcommon DNA are saying two inherently different things.
And I think starting off the openingcredits with the season two theme,
in which the main motif is letthe mystery be, it is so indicative

(01:57):
of what we should feel not onlyabout this finale, Allie, but the
entire show, and that, yes, Jay, a lot of questions may
have gotten answered, but there's stilla bunch of, you know, hanging
questions that are left out there.But we're we've never been We've never been
educator, We've never been under theguys that we were going to have those
answers happen. All we were toldwas that it would be a satisfying ending,

(02:20):
whatever that may be. Yeah,and that and even that was like
from the actor's respective right, itwasn't even I don't think Damon any point
said it's going to be satisfying,because that's that's a kiss of death.
Oh you're gonna love this ending.But again, but I think Damon played
it, you know from experience,he played it really smart because even before
he's like, well, you know, it's just it's not just my show,
it's the writer's show, it's theactor's show. Really, it's everybody's

(02:43):
here. So he was spreading theresponsibility, right. Everyone's had a hand
in this, everyone's had a pieceof it's all your fault. I really
wanted to go this direction. Soif you don't like it, you can
blame these guys. My ending wasthat was that all the dog people would
come and take over. But theseguys wanted something different. I don't know.
It's a little to column, alittle to column be it's a it's

(03:05):
whatever parogative you want to, soenjoy it. If not, here's an
alternative dog ending for you. Yeah, I love dogs. Everyone loves dogs,
so I thought it would go withthe dog ending. Oh man.
Uh so yes, I'm very excitedto talk about the finale of this fantastic
show, um, which we willbe doing on this episode. We also
have a lot of listener feedback andJack you you say you have a theory,

(03:28):
so I'm gonna we're gonna keep thatin our crack part theory of the
week. I've been I've been.I've been staying off the leftover internet.
I've been busy, but I don'twant to get influenced by what everyone else
is saying. I did go backand watch the first parts of the first
episode of this Seehood, and Idon't know where we got the radiation burns

(03:50):
from. Those are just age marks, yeah, I said, but we
don't. No one ever questioned it. What I will say about this episode
as well, sort of being alittle tangential to that, is that I
do feel like, even though welive in this big technological age, especially
when it comes to movie magic,there are certain pieces of film and television
where we have to point and laughat the horrendous job some people do when

(04:14):
it comes to old age makeup.Leftover's finale gets a bunch of thumbs up
for me in a bunch of differentcategories. One of them is definitely the
aging that they do on both Noraand Kevin. Well, Kevin didn't age,
so that doesn't count. No,he he did age. Oh he
aged a little bit. Come on, he looked more distinguished. In the
real world, people don't age Jack. I think I think here's a little

(04:36):
bit jealous that he aged more likea Clooney instead of a Jack Here.
I feel like maybe that's probably definitelya clooney. But in real life,
in real life Kevin garveyt the stresshe's under and and everything he's gone through
in life, he would have agedlike me. I think, not clooney.
I think you're jealous because for yearsyou've been saying, oh, yeah,

(04:57):
I'm justin you know, I'm justinThorow's stunt double. And then you
finally get an opportunity for a Kevinof a certain age, and where is
Jack nowhere to be out found?I think you're angry because your job got
taken from you Jack, it didit did get to I'm like, I'm
like Mickey on Seinfeld but check ourjobs. Yeah, so let's spoiler.

(05:18):
If you haven't seen Seinfeld that episode, I apologize that one episode with the
stand in. Yeah, I apologize. All right, Well, uh,
before we get anything wrong to thankyou able to make this show possible,
this this past season of The Leftovers, um and it's our patrons over at
patreon dot com slash Jay and jackWeight over one hundred and fifty patrons all

(05:39):
contribute at different levels and you getdifferent stuff at each level. Check it
all out. Go to jajack dotcom click on the become a link to
become a patron today. All right, so let's let's jump into this episode.
And what what I've kind of what'sbeen interesting about this season and I
think it's worked well, is especiallytowards kind of the really What's after starting

(06:02):
with kind of Kevin Garvey Seniors episode. A lot of the episodes kind of
had just a singular focus of acharacter and kind of winding down their story,
you know, Matt's episode, Laurie'sepisode, and really the last week's
episode is kind of the Kevin kindof conclusion episode. And then we kind
of conclude here with the Nora storyand where it goes and we kind of

(06:29):
go right back to her going straightinto this machine, which was really an
intense scene. And but before weeven get there, we have the Matt
and Nora conversation in The Matt Lives, which I thought was just a really
really moving, a touching scene andkind of the send off, the final
send off to Matt's character. Butwhat do you guys think about this scenes?

(06:51):
It's so interesting. I think we'regoing to talk about how with Lorie's
episode, there might have been somethings that we said, Okay, this
definitely was the way things went.It turns out they definitely did not go
in that direction. And I thinkone of them is that we felt that
when Nora and Matt and Lorie pursueddoctor Eden and doctor Becker with you know,
the cross country cannonball run trip,that apparently this machine was taking.

(07:16):
It seemed like with the way Loriehad talked with her, Norah seemed okay
with sort of letting it go andmoving on. But that did not seem
to be the case whatsoever. Andmore so, I feel like it even
doubled down her efforts. But herconversation with Matt is so interesting because I
do feel like even though their siblings, whom technically they should be like two

(07:36):
of the closest people in the show, they've had such a weird, tumultuous
relationship stemming from their childhood, whereyou know, Matt tells the story about
how, you know, when hissister was born, he became jealous and
you know, pray to God forsomething that would make them pay attention to
him, and as a result,that's how he got cancer, which has
now come back in full force.But classic, I think, I think

(07:58):
we really see Matt as like achanged man here in a way, and
I think it's very indicative in thebasically their final words to each other before
she gets into the tank, whenshe says, you know, what are
you going to tell people here?And Matt says, whatever you want to
and this I don't want to,you know, concentrate too too much on
Matt, because again Matt had hisepisode, as he mentioned Jay, But

(08:18):
I feel like it's such a significantquote to have this character who for the
entirety of two and a half seasonswas all about you know, I'm the
one telling the story, I'm preachingmy own word, and now he's finally
sort of settling back I wouldn't sayhe's renounced his faith, but I think
he's definitely changed the way he's viewedthe world. And he's saying, you
know what, I'll tell them whateveryou want me to tell them. And

(08:39):
granted that might also tie into thebig question of was this story real or
not? But really subtle character momentfrom Matt that I think speaks volumes.
It's a takes the Lion's share,if you will, of character depth that
Matt experienced this season and represented it. I think what two is what he

(09:01):
said when he said, you know, how am I going to go back
and preach to people when I don'tknow if I believe what I believe anymore?
Something? It was something like thathe had these different scenarios, right,
because it's like he either he eitherdies and he's he's afraid of dying,
or he lives and then has hehow does he keep going on?
Um? You know, after everythingthat kind of led up to that point,
um, And he admits he's afraidof dying and Nora is not.

(09:26):
Yeah, but Nora's also an omissiontoo. So what I what I was
wondering? What confused me more thananything the chairs they were sitting on.
Do they still make those chairs withlittle straps? That's what was confusing to
you chairs because those are the chairsfrom like the seventies and you know,
you know the ones would have alittle gap in there and you get your

(09:46):
foot caught in there and you couldn'tget the chair. I don't think they
make those chairs anymore. So I'mgonna throw the challenge flag on that one.
Well maybe in Australia they're still inuse. You don't know, you've
never been to Australia, right,that's true. Australia could be like forty
years behind the fact. Well,looking at it, I think they are.
But I just I'm kidding, I'mkidding. I'm wow, we have
a we have Australians. I love. I want to go to Australia someday.

(10:07):
M hmm. You swim in theocean and meat suit anyway? Um,
so yeah, we kind of thatand that kind of closes out Matt,
And you're right, like the relationshipbetween Matt and Nora was kind of
weird, um, but I thinkit had a really nice kind of end
in this scene between the two ofthem. Um, And it was a
realistic brother sister relationship. I think, you know, I think I thought,

(10:31):
I thought it was a great andthe scene was great. I mean
the acting you know there who wasn'tgetting emotional during the scene? Yeah?
Can I can? I just canI just say it's not going to happen,
But all the Imaginary Emmys for CarrieCoon, because I think she showed
throughout the To have the the finalepisode be completely about her, I think
is just very symbolic about how muchthe show has really both relied on her

(10:54):
and utilized her to really flesh outthis Nora Dirisk character. I mean,
Damon gave a bunch of interviews afterthe finale, and I think in a
couple of them he talked about how, you know, Nora Durst was a
book character and she was pretty important, but once he saw Carrie Kon kind
of bringing in the first season,he decided from the second season moving forward,
he wanted to give her more stuff, which kind of morphed her into
this really interesting foil slash companion toKevin. And so this this is really

(11:20):
a tour to force episode for Karacoon, that last monologue specifically, and it's
just so much fun to because totalk about an hour and seventeen minute minutes
a pure carry Koon joy. Thisepisode. It has been it has been
the Spring twenty seventeen of carry Koon, that is for sure. Yeah,
um yeah, But we're thinking shewon't get enough, she won't get a

(11:43):
nomination or a win. I'm there. I think there might be a chance
that The Leftovers might get a finalebump, just because it's being so critically
praised, the second in particular thatthey the Emmy's my, They're starting to
get a little cool. You know. They gave awards to they acknowledged like
Tantiana Muslani for Orphan Black last year, who is giving as much as I

(12:05):
love Carry kuon Totowamuslani is giving thebest performance on television in my opinion,
So they acknowledged her. That's somethingI didn't expect initially. Maybe they'll give
some credit not only to The Leftoversbut for Carrie Coon. But that being
said, you know, it'd bea long shot for her to get nominated.
It'd ben't even longer shot for herto win at this point. All
right, I can go with that, um so, because right because right

(12:30):
now I got to give it toElizabeth what she would be best supporting actress
for Carrie Coon or lead actress.That's a good question because I think theoretically,
based on this episode, you couldsay you could submit her for lead
actress because she had you know,the second episode was about her, the
fourth episode was about her, theeighth episode was about her. Yeah,
because because right now you have togive it to Eliza with moths or yeah,

(12:52):
I've seen so far, Well let'slet's go to the actual using or
going into the machine. Now.When they showed when they referenced the fossil
I was like, oh my god, it's always going to be fried.
Like there's no way, there's noway this thing is gonna work. And
I love that she has the lineis like, well, maybe let you

(13:13):
keep it. That's why Norah always, even at her most frightened, she's
always so demure. And again,really interesting symbolism in the fact that you
know, in order to build thisfossilized cocoon that she gets zapped into,
you know, they need to submergeher in a fluid that's not water but

(13:33):
very consistent to water. And we'vehad this flood symbology throughout the entirety of
the final season, so now thisis Norah kind of experiencing her own flood
in a way nice, very nice. Um and yeah, so they kind
of run through how this is supposedto work. Yeah, you know,
kind of getting the fetal position almost. It's gonna be a little thing.
It's gonna fill with liquid, butyou can't breathe it in because it's basically

(13:56):
was it like rock essentially or whatevermineral that they have to use? Um
and uh and then you're basically gonnabe zaped and that's it um and you're
gonna did it seem like there wasn'treally a lot of detail into the thing.
It's like, you know, Ipressure here, I get like a
cavity field and they go on forlike thirty minutes. Tell me how they're
gonna fill the cavity. You're you'regonna submerge me in this liquid and I'm

(14:20):
gonna be zad. They did sayit was gonna be a rush. In
all fairness to them, they saidthere they say, they're kind of rushing
along, so they don't have thefull line. We're rushing along, we
don't have the whole seminar. Andthey know that. I mean, they
caught them. They caught their mobileunits, so they might be, as
you said, a little less preparedthan you. That that's true because usually
we try to sell you on acondo, but we're in a hurry.
We gotta we gotta push through it. Um. So uh. And then

(14:41):
there's just this really really powerful sceneum where she disrobes. She goes into
this trailer with this machine and walksthrough you know, these active waves.
Did she have to disrobe? Itwas because probably it's whatever minerals or whatever
materials or in the clothes might interferewith the actual reaction chemical action I could
see once you get into the tank, I mean, once you get in
the tank, but I do.But even because going through like radiations kind

(15:05):
of spewing from the machine too,I think because they're saying all the waves.
So but then it kind of intersperseswith the last moments that she had
with her kids, and and shekind of gets to it. She goes
in. They kind of are talkingover the speaker saying, you know,
Matt's here, and you know she'sready to go, and this liquid fill
up and then like up until whenit gets right up to her mouth,

(15:28):
she kind of seems like she's gaspingfor something, and then it just cuts
away from that scene before we moveon it from there, let's just talk
about this scene in particular, Sothoughts here. I just thought it was
a really really moving scene with herwalking and then interspersed with the memories of
her kids and why she's doing it. Really exactly, it's a great reminder,
as you said, of what she'sbeen striving for. I mean,

(15:50):
it's been really her mission since marklinBaker approached her in that hotel room in
Saint Louis. What seems like aneon a go to really put this idea
in her head that you can actuallysee your kids, which really seemed to
be the one big unresolved issue that'sbeen hanging over Nora's head for these past
seven years. So it's been interestingto really see her fruitlessly take after them.

(16:11):
You know, initially she's under theguys of oh no, I'm gonna
bust them as a fraud, butthen she wants in. She chased them
literally to the ends of the earth, and now she's finally going into it.
But just again, it's all aboutthe sound here, and like you
said, the final words, alot of really scary worrying. It's like
that in the Monty Python's Meaning ofLife, the machine that goes bang is

(16:32):
just going crazy. But and youknow, I am not someone who likes
water, So I even if Iwas able to, or if I wanted
to, I don't know if I'dbe able to submit myself to basically being
drowned and hopefully end up in it, you know, wherever the place may
be. But it was super ominous, very nerve racking. But you know,

(16:53):
I think that's sort of the thrilleraspects that this part of the show
wanted to go for. Yeah,Jack, I think the whole scene was
extually, you know, like theflash, but I forgot that her last
words to her kids she was upset, Yeah, because one of her daughters
spilled the orange juice or whatever whateverit was. So the last thing she
said to her kids was she wasangry. Yea. And to live with

(17:15):
that, you know, for youknow, for seven years that she's had
to live no wonder she's been souh, I mean bad enough to lose
your kids, lose all of themkids and husband, well her husband.
Yeah. Yeah. That's the funthing too, is that she's like,
I'm going to see my kids,no mention of the husband whatsoever. I
think she's like Doug could f offas far as especially since Matt Doug,

(17:37):
well, especially after Matt revealed toher that he was cheating on her.
Right, So, yeah, yousee that scene, you go, Oh,
that's right. I forgot that shewas upset with her kids. Oh
so yeah, it was. Itwas very moving like and like Mike said,
I'm not afraid of I'm not afraidof water like that, but being
in a closed thing like that,knowing that, Okay, what's gonna happen
here, I could either die orYeah. So for for all three of

(18:00):
us here like that is, wouldany of us have the guts to do
that? I wouldn't see my kidsagain. I would take that chance.
Yeah, I don't know. It'sa good question. I think it says
more about us than it does aboutthe activity itself. I don't know.
I mean, hopefully I would neverbe in that position like losing Zach,

(18:21):
but I don't know. I guessthey'll just be listening. I have to
be there, But I don't knowif I would have the guts just not
knowing, like not knowing if itwere knowing if this was just just the
doubting Thomas that I am would belike, nas, this isn't real,
Like I just would never think itwould be a real thing. Don't they
give you some medicine? Like ifyou MRIs Well, you don't go,
you get they offer you some medicineto calm you down, but nothing to

(18:44):
go on this machine. You haveto be a game that could probably throw
off your chemical balance, right becauseyou have to take her, plus you
also have to remember to hold yourbreath too, So I don't know.
It was like I said, I'mwatching this going, I don't know if
I could do this, would Ido it? I don't know if I
could do this. What a scarything. It was just departed. But

(19:08):
again the hats off to carry Coonsbecause that was her acting makes it even
more stressful. So hats off toher two very true, very true.
Um all right, so this theit kind of goes start gasping, and
then it cuts away from that scene. Then we go right back to the
flying doves and the scene that wesaw at the end of the first episode.

(19:30):
Weren't they pigeons doves? I think? Right doves? Yeah, right
doves? Okay, fake white doves. Not either real white doves. No,
I think they were fake CG CYeah, I don't think they are.
I said fake as leftovers used CGIthis in the series they did for

(19:51):
that goat for sure, it hadto go and a submarine and people were
really upset that it was so bad. That's lost. Oh wait, that's
I'm sorry, it's lost. U. But um no, I think the
parts where the animals are kind ofin peril or whatever, I think we're
CG. Remember, yes, thedeer. I remember specifically when Kevin had
to get the deer out of theschool. I remember the deer, the

(20:14):
moments when the deer was a littleCGI. The Gary Busey inflatable I think
was c Unfortunately it was not theActually think they made it. They really
have a life a huge CGI ofGary Busey. Well little know in fact
is actually they blew their entire budgeton making that CG Gary Busey inflatable.
I love it. Um so yeah, and uh, we already have one

(20:38):
of Jack's theories from last week disproventhat he said, we're not going to
go past that scene with Nora,uh that we saw at the end of
the first episode, and and wego right to that and really that's only
uh, maybe twenty minutes into thisepisode. Maybe if that it's it's a
I thought our epispect. If theyjust would have ended on that note,

(21:00):
I have fantastic ending. No withoutany of the Okay, that's all I
needed to be right sure? Um. In fact, in fact, they
could have just played that part byI said previous on Leftovers and had fifty
eight minutes of previous on Leftovers andjust into with that scene. I'd be
all right they have they had aclip show and then just ended with that

(21:21):
final scene. Yes, perfect.I think everyone would agree with me.
No, no, they wouldn't.We loved Damon come back on Twitter.
So you go back to her takingthe letters off the doves, putting him
in the cages, and then takinghim to the church. Um. The
nun asked her if she knows whoKevin is, and she says no,

(21:41):
um, and she goes away.So can we just say we we analyze
this scene so much? UM diddid? We didn't talk about it when
it or even come close to actuallygetting it right during the time, But
can we just talk about how,like, not big of a scene this
scene was as we thought it whenwe first saw it, is it well

(22:04):
no, because we're like we werethinking, are the letters from like the
other side, or or is Kevinis he really now this Jesus in this
religion or so? And then likeI said, radiation, nobody did and
no one when we said it,nobody questioned it. And then you sit
there. I watched it again.I go, Okay, maybe that's why
I went back and watched. Isaid, well, maybe they did made

(22:25):
it look worse to kind of messedus up. They had the nuclear explosion
and stuff like that. Oh no, I just we just didn't see the
age marks. I don't know whyage marks. No, I know,
but why did we think she hadradiation birds? Well, because we're just
thinking not radiation birds. Maybe likeit aged her a little bit because she
went through the thing. We werethinking a lot of different ways, but
like, none of that really cameto rison. It was just this very

(22:48):
kind of non big scene. ButI thought it was just interesting seeing the
scene in context of the entire storyversus it kind of closing out the end
of the first episode of this seasonand then our kind of different viewpoints and
perspectives of it. Um. Ijust think it's kind of interesting because even
even in my head is like,Okay, now we're here, is she

(23:11):
dead? Is this? Is thisnow? The AFTERWAF was like, no,
no, that's too us. He'snot going to go back to that
to Becca that well. Um,so there's still a lot of different thoughts.
But I thought it was interesting thecontext of this scene in this episode
versus the first episode and how theyboth did it out. But did he
leave it up to our abangination becauseepisode one, Yes, but this is
kind of pretty straightforward. There's nothingmuch to it, really, but I've

(23:34):
better disagree with it. Well,Jack, you can speak to this more
than we can't, considering you watchhim most recently. But correct me if
I'm wrong, But I'm pretty surewhen we saw him in the first episode,
the persons who turns out to beSarah Slash, Nora's face was obscured
the entire time, so we didn'twe saw everything that wasn't from her perspective,
whereas this time around we saw thingsmuch more from her POV. Right,

(23:55):
Yeah, we don't see it's Norauntil the very says Sarah, and
then she goes and they and youknow, Kevin, and she goes,
does Kevin mean anything to you,She goes, no, and we will.
Huh. It's Nora. She's olderand she's got radiation burns. So
that might be what you're what you'retalking about, Jay, Is that I
think because the first episode was moreabout like, who is this mystery character?
Oh wait, it's Norah. Thathas a different focus than here where

(24:18):
it's oh yeah, Norah's here andshe's doing this now. Yeah yeah,
um oh grada. But also tiesinto the first episode where you have the
lady and her husband and the sunthey give they give a goat to the
you know, to these people thatand she goes up there there waiting for
you know, another another life orwhatever. They're waiting for a better life

(24:40):
to have and it doesn't happen.Doesn't happen, don't happen. And what
happens at the end, well shedies alone. So I'm not saying that's
a comparison, but maybe, um, well, so there's a guy here
looking for her, and you know, uh, Norah freak out. She

(25:00):
starts kind of trying to basically ohwait now, she tries to make her
run for it after Kevin shows up, right, yeah, no, no,
no, She's she's trying to packthings up and then she hears the
knocks on the door, which reallyfantastic music choices. As always in this
episode, a lot of like oldjazz standards. This one was The man
I Love by Ella Fitzgerald, Ibelieve, And there's a really fun key

(25:22):
lyric in the man I Love orshe says and when he comes my way,
I'll do my best to make himstay. And it's almost like that's
what Kevin is trying to do toNora throughout this episode in a way.
But yeah, as soon as shegets home, she makes a bee line
for the peanut butter jar that hasthe money on it. Looks like I
don't know if she got that trickfrom Kevin Senior or if he told her
about that, But there had thisreally fun moment where the song cuts off

(25:44):
with Kevin knocking on the door onthe beat. So it's just these little
things that I've really enjoyed about this, not only this episode, but the
entire show. It's really the littlethings that all come together to really build
this absolutely beautiful masterpiece of a show. Um So, then there's Kevin at
the door. Jack thinks he hasan age, but he has aged.
He is older. Job, butagain, I stress is bad for you.

(26:08):
Say it's only ten years. Buthe had a heart attack, Yes,
exactly had a heart attack. Yeah, so that should have aged him
some Come on, man, Ithink you're just jealous. I think it's
jealous. Again, has better thanyou. I would expect a little bit.
I wasn't gonna go there, Mike. It's a sense of subject.
I got to say this episode,Nora had better hair than I had.

(26:30):
So that's saying a lot. It'sso bad's hair just because it's gray,
it's so sexist. She was.It was. It was kind of raggy
looking. I'm not saying hair ingeneral, it's not sexist. It's you
know, hair is messed up,Okay, com it once in a while.
Nora man very very judgmental for somebodyhas no hair. That's what I'm

(26:51):
saying. I'm always judging when peoplecome on. I see people with have
hair and it looks like a netrat's nest. I'm sorry, I'm judging
you with let he who without haircast the first perm So Kevin almost seemingly
either has had his memory race orwhatever, or he's playing coy um.

(27:14):
But he kind of Uh says thatyou know we met at the school dance.
I didn't ask you to dance,Dan, I always regretted it.
I'm just here on vacation. Uh. And happened to see you riding your
bike. Um, and there's thisdance kind of in town, and I
want to know if you would gowith me to ITU and Nor is kind

(27:34):
of like, what okay? Umand Uh, she kind of says she
says no. He says, well, if you change your mind, I'll
be there. Uh And um.Yeah. Interesting interesting scene here between Kevin
and Again we're seeing this for thefirst time, so later on we know
the context of it all. Butthoughts here with Kevin Garvey and his amnie

(28:00):
Yah approach my notes read specifically,is this an effing sideways universe? Because
I had similar things? But thewhole time it's like, no, Dame
is not gonna go there again.He can't go there again. He can't
do it. What was the titleof the episode, The Book of It
was being told from Nora's point ofview. What does that have to do

(28:22):
with Kevin Garvey not remembering their bigbook fighting. They're in laceship and you'll
you'll find out later on, Ohmy gosh, stupid theories all right,
So, um so, uh,how could Kevin not remember a person he
basically told destroyed in a hotel?Well, exactly what we find out later

(28:45):
he lied, so we find outright. Oh. Also, Like,
I don't want to poke holes inKevin's logic here, but is it really
the best tactic for him to belike, I'm gonna start over, let
me not remember anything that happened.Like what do you think that she'd go
along with it and be like,oh, yes, we you know you
never asked me to the dance.Let's meet right here right now. Maybe

(29:06):
that's a way for him to kindof like bring her guard down a bit,
But it's in middaly a weird tacticon paper. How about you start
off with I'm sorry? Well okay, So I think he's maybe maybe didn't
really know his audience here, becauseI feel maybe for some uh significant others,
they might find that cute and endearing. But I think Nora has always

(29:26):
been this very much. You know, the truth or what's real is what
matters to her. Um So Ijust maybe it worked on some people,
but I think this would work onNora. No, it wouldn't work on
Nora. But I I get wherehe's coming from. It's it's cute,
it's kind of, you know,romantic in a certain way, but I
I don't care. Adience. Hey, I'm sorry, look at me.
I'm Kevin Garvey. You got myhair. I'm Kevin Garvey looking my hair.

(29:52):
His fantastic catchphrase. That's how Jackwould do it, right. Like
if Jack would woke up in aThe International Assassin but he had hair,
Oh my god, that would justbe his his his opening salvo every time.
Oh, it would be be like, Hey, I'm Kevin Garvey.
I'm here, Nora. You mightwant to get some shampoo, just say
so. Uh, Nora, youknow, takes a bath um uh and

(30:18):
has a broken door. Anything anythingthat Maybe she's in the bathtub and she
can't she's in a bathtub, she'sin water and she can't get out anything
to wear the machine. Maybe she'strying to get out. Oh, she's
saying, there's there's a there's someparallels or whatever between in the bathroom.
I'm just I'm just throwing it outthere. Maybe that's what why she's she

(30:38):
can't open the door because she doeswant to go and now she feels like
it's kind of pushing back against herbeing able to go. That's how I
or maybe or maybe she doesn't wantto go and she's trying to get out.
Well, yeah, I think Ithink it might be a little symbolic
in that she shut herself off fromthe music again. Another great piece of
music here, Back in your OwnBackyard by Billy Holliday, another key line

(30:59):
in there. Basically, the themeof the song is basically like, Hey,
you could go wherever you want to, but you're always going to come
back home in this and you're alwaysgonna end up back in the same place,
which is sort of like Norah's thingabout. You know, she's trying
to really escape where she came from. She's gonna wind up there at the
end of the day anyway, especiallywith Kevin coming into the picture. But
yeah, it does seem a littlefamiliar with her, you know, closing

(31:19):
a door and water filling it.Now, granted it doesn't fill the entire
room, but I feel like weskipped over something big here, gentlemen,
because after Kevin visits, who doesnoracall on the paypall? Yes, LORI.
So she rides her bike and shecalls her therapist Lorium, and again

(31:44):
there's like, there's so many thoughtsbecause so many of us assumed that she
committed suicide. I think even forme, I was like voting the actress,
yeh, can we just can wejust throw a challenge flag in this
one. I could ride my bikefrom my cross this country and I don't
think I could find one payphone ormaybe in Australa. When you're at the

(32:05):
boone, He's like, that's it. They still jack Their chairs are from
like fifty years back. That's true. I forgot about that well. So
so I want to give a littlebit of background to this for those who
did not, you know, readany of the copious amount of interviews that
came out with Damon, because thiswas a big question because, as I
mentioned, even the actress herself confirmed, oh yeah, Lorie's dead. And

(32:27):
from what Damon said, this wassort of in like an ad hoc decision
where you know, they decided toultimately have Lorie commits suicide, but Damon
sort of felt at the end ofthe day that it didn't feel right.
Then after they recorded Lorie's episode,they watched the dailies and they see that
Amy Brennaman in that scene just happenedto give a look. She happened to

(32:51):
be smiling on the boat that couldbe interpreted as someone who decided ultimately not
to do it. You also havethe call from Jill and Tommy as well,
and so he thought, you knowwhat I'm gonna. I'm gonna,
you know, reverse the play onthis. Speaking of throwing a challenge flag
out there, let's have Laurie actuallynot kill herself. But did she But
she's doing these interviews, but she'sjust doing that to kind of throw people

(33:13):
off or did they just know becausethey film They finished filming in September,
So um, yeah, I gotanother direction on it, but I'll wait.
So there, but there there's thoughtsswirling here as I'm watching it,
or as we're watching in our household, was like, so they're all dead
because Laurie's in this in this existenceor whatever. So there's so many different
thoughts with this scene beyond just Norabeing ticked that she thinks that Laurie told

(33:38):
Kevin where she was. Um,but I I all and I was.
It was a cute scene. Iassume that was Lorie's granddaughter that she was
watching, Um that we find outa reference later. Um, otherwise there's
some random kid um and uh yeah, so Lorie is alive. Um,

(34:01):
except for maybe Jack's theory. Um. Well, now I'll throw a little
I'll throw a little bit out here. Now. Lorie became her therapist because
Nora didn't want her to tell anybodywhere she was or what even originally it
was not to tell her what shedid, right did or where she was.
She didn't she didn't want anybody comingto well right, yeah, Okay,

(34:25):
go on, Okay, it's likeleaving a little breadcrumbs throughout the course
of this podcast. I'm calling forthe great big gingerbread house. We're gonna
get to you by the end ofit. I'll probably won't be that big
though by then. Really left.Um, so uh yeah, so yeah,
I think, but I think that'sa key thing to remember. All

(34:46):
right, okay, Um, ButI'm, for one, I am happy
that Laurie is alive. I thinkwhen when she first you're gonna be you're
gonna be sad at the end ofthe pod when it first happened, Um,
I said that, you know,I really hope that she didn't do
it. We don't know and I'mjust I'm just gonna hope and think in
my head that she didn't do itjust because of the way the scene played
out. But if it did happen, it is what it is. I

(35:07):
can't control it either way. Itwas a good kind of close for her
character. So after that, wedo have the bathtub scene where she breaks
out, and we then see hergoing to this wedding where she kind of
hilariously says, oh, this isthe dance. Is the wedding, and

(35:29):
to Jack's kind of criticism of herhair, she isn't quite dressed for a
wedding. Well, it's not herfault, she thought it was a dance,
But does she not own a vehicle? I think that Nora really really
went off the grid. I mean, I think changing her name was definitely
like the first step in that itseems like one of the reasons why she
had called Laurie on the pay phoneis because she doesn't have any sort of

(35:50):
way to communicate with her in thehouse. So yeah, suffice to say,
I don't I don't necessarily think sheis able to you know, she
doesn't have that many luxuries of modernlife that would connect her back to the
world. Okay, Um, whichis which is interesting? Well, we'll
we'll close out those thoughts later.But um, so we have the wedding

(36:15):
with Kevin there, and we kindof get get followed up on what's happened
to Kevin during this time. He'shad a pacemaker, so he's not immortal
anymore. Um, Tommy's married butdivorced. He's okay. Jill married a
guy, they have a kid.Things are going well there. Laurie,
Um and John still lived together nextdoor and they all live in Jardin.

(36:36):
Still, Um, Matt did passaway, he didn't move back to Mapleton.
Um, Mary, you didn't.You didn't come to the funeral.
Yeah, you didn't come to thefuneral. Um Mary did the eulogy.
Um was a little surprising considering howthey left things. But I thought that
was nice because I think it tiedup just about every all the extraneous characters.

(36:59):
Um, I think Erica as well. I talked about Erica and they
said, and she's there too,basically like oh yeah, Michael, Michael
runs the church and Erica stops bysometimes. Yeah yeah. Um, so
kind of it ties everything. Uh. Kevin Garvey Senior is ninety one years
old. That's that's my I meanmany hot takes have quickly cooled over the
course of this finale, but thatwas I think that was the one I

(37:21):
made at the end of the lastepisode that Kevin Senior was going to die
and no Pa is still kicking itan age ninety one. That sucks when
your theories don't come to I'm notkidding. Um No, So we can
assume that we that Norah knew whenshe got into that machine that her that
Matt was going to die, right, we can assume that, we guess
can assume that. So when shewhen Kevin's telling her that Matt died,

(37:45):
yeah, she would have already knownthat going going when she gotten the machine,
she would have known that. Yeah. Okay, um so Jack,
I just love how like everything beingstated just like uh huh, I just
think about it this way. Okay, all right, just ok okay,
I'm just I'm just I'm just I'mjust setting up a page, dude,

(38:06):
I want to do That's okay,it's okay. Um, so I watched
the Trial of Oja. I knowhow to do this. Oh, you're
gonna cochran it. There's gonna bea glove that doesn't fit okay. So
um, so a couple of thingsin this wedding, and we meet the
Brian groom that just he happened tomeet the hotel they invited him there.
I thought that was funny. Ilike their speeches to each other. And
I think the greenm I can't remembhis name, but talked about how um,

(38:30):
you know, just forgiveness and kindof screwing up um some sins versus
I think it was effing up umand uh in the differences between the two,
which I thought were kind of uhparallels here to maybe the things that
led to the demise of Kevin andum Nora's relationship. So I thought that

(38:52):
was nice there. Um, wesee what the doves are for the messages
go to the doves, which answersthat question. Um. And then we
also interested a goat that they donot sacrifice, thankfully, but they put
all of these beads on which arethe sins and in this is a scapegoat.
So now, is this a futurethe wedding ceremony tradition that just hasn't
been invented yet, or is thisa real thing that is this now?

(39:12):
Because I've been to a lot ofweddings I've not been to when it has
had the flying death messages or theescapegoat? Is this the thing, Zimmy,
Now I think I want more ofthe doves flying messages thing. Yeah,
no, it's gonna be now thedoves are gonna be like sending hashtags
around or something, or it'll belike they're tweets. They're tweets exactly.
But I think the goat is somethingI think a little more archaic. I

(39:37):
mean, I think this is Ithink this is literally where the term scapegoat
came from. Is this tradition wherea village would testoon their own misgivings onto
this one animal that would take thebrunt, the metaphorical brunt, if you
will. And again, maybe itgoes back to this idea that Australia is
really harkening back to this more primalstate of being. It's almost like a

(39:59):
land lost in time in a way, and it is another great choice for
Aggie and Eddie's uh first dance.I've got dreams to remember and basically this
is all about like, hey,you know I you left me, but
I have a dream about when wewere together, which I mean, all
these choices again, are just reallyspeaking towards Kevin and Norah's state of mind

(40:20):
at this point. Yep. Umthey they they have this dance when Kevin
and Nora um, and nor kindsays like, you know, tell me,
tell me the truth, like hadyou and then he's kind of Kevin
sticks to his whole you know,no, I'm just here and I just
happened to see you. Um storyum, and she says she can't do
this anymore, and then she sheleaves. UM. When she's on her

(40:40):
way home riding her bike, Uh, she takes a pretty hard fall um.
And then there's beads, uh,those beads on the road, and
she sees that the scapegoat is actuallytrapped um on this on this hill,
on this barbed wire fence. Shegoes up to try and save it,
but she falls down. It's thisit seems like a very cathartic experience for

(41:04):
her, and she saves this goatum and then she she takes it back
home. UM. So this sceneis very moving. It has the that
that classic Leftovers kind of little pianomotif that's yeah since season one. Um.
But but but thoughts here for thisscene of Nora is is this some

(41:28):
type of cathartic experience for her?And maybe is it letting go? Is
it accepting? Uh, maybe whather her fate is? Like? What
what does this scene mean for thecharacter and the in the inside look after
this episode, which I would heavilyrecommend if people you know, watched it
through the HBO channel proper and didn'tcheck it out on HBO go or now,
I highly highly recommend you watch thelast like five minutes that they have

(41:52):
up online because they have interviews withDamon and Tom talking about their ideas on
the show overall, and the onething that one of them says is a
satisfying ending to the Leftovers is arelease from suffering. And I feel like
this is a great representation of thatin that I feel like Norah, ironically
enough, in sort of taking thesymbolic weight of that community onto her neck.

(42:15):
I mean, it's very similar toyou know what Matt does at the
end of his episode in season twowhen he says, you know, Mary
gets into jardin, I'm going tobe the one to exile myself in a
way and put myself up in thestocks purposefully, but in a way it
almost makes her in taking on everyoneelse is suffering and almost releases her from
suffering because I think when Kevin visits, she then is able to really open

(42:37):
up about everything that happens and wellagain determine whether or not that's true or
false. And there's this other reallypoignant small moment that I don't know if
you guys noticed, when she bringsthe goat back to the house, she
hangs the beads up over a papertowel. Dispenser and Jay, I know
you were talking about her last momentwith her family was when you know that

(42:59):
her daughter spilled the juice. Shewent to go grab the paper towels and
then she turns back and they're gone. I believe. I believe the The
Visitor episode from from season one,where she's in New York, she like
has this big symbolic moment where shehadn't bought paper towels up to that point
because I think she probably thinks it'sjinxed in some way, shape or form.
And the episode ends with her buyingpaper towels and stalking the rack that

(43:22):
way. So I didn't like,I didn't notice that, but it makes
my case stronger. I unintentionally helpedyou there, but yes, but her
her sort of again taking the sinsand these mistakes and throwing them over.
What represents her The one lingering questionthat she had that she was pursuing so

(43:44):
adamantly during this third season, Ithink is so poignant. Wood very good
call out, good job, goodjob. She goes inside, Um,
uh was it to make? Doesshe make tea? At this point?
I think? Or she starts gettingready to make tea. Um, and
the goat is eating the messages.She goes back out. Oh, she

(44:07):
goes inside to get the goat food. She comes back out, gives the
goat food. Um, the goatseating messages. So she decides to read
the different messages there. Um,which is that? Is that bad luck
reading people's messages? I don't know, it's It's kind of reminded me of
the sawyer. I hate to hateto say this, but what has Nora
had her pretty much the last sevenyears? I know, I know,

(44:28):
but it reminded me. It remindedme of a sawyer reading the messages that
were put in the bottle. Seasonone of loss again, another loss call
out. I don't know if Idon't think it was I think that's what
reminded for okay, UM, andthen we have Kevin pull up in a
very smart car. It's a futurecar, something like that electric or something.

(44:51):
You know, you think it'd bea self driving cars by this point
in the future, ten years orAustralia Australia phones. Yeah, for all
we know, this could be acar that's like popular neck this year.
But it's like fifty years from now. They have old chairs, pay phones
come on, Um, so itshould have been it should have been a
Model T pulled up in. SoKevin is at this point we can tell

(45:12):
he has dropped his whole I've neverseen you before stick um, and he
kind of comes in, uh andsays, you want to you know,
I know what happened. So hetells why he did everything he did.
He just he wanted a chance tostart over because things in it's so badly
before. He only gets two weeksof vacation every year, and he assumed
that you would be in Australia.So he comes to Australia, UM two

(45:37):
weeks every year since um she supposedlyleft UM trying to find her UM and
uh, why why would she whywould she stay in Australia Um, I
don't know, maybe maybe if shefeels like she needs to start over.
She realizes that, you know,nobody really knows that everyone seems really tight

(46:01):
left about her story, that theywouldn't think she would appear again in Australia.
Australia is probably the other side ofthe world from where everything else in
her life is, you know,her job, her remaining family. Kevin
assumingly, so, she thought,you know, if I can exile myself
into the middle of the wilderness,to the farthest corner of the earth,

(46:21):
maybe no one will pay attention tome right in your bike. That's how
you found you. Um but yeah, so I think he kind of.
He lays his cards on the tableand in classic Nora fas, I'm making
some tea or you want to comein and have some tea? Um so,
uh, you know, she startslay up a cigarette and she asked,

(46:43):
you do you still smoke and says, no, remember the pacemaker.
Um so, so you know,everything apparently that we know, aside from
the whole uh not remembering the relationshipis true that he said I've never had
a pacemaker with the pacemaker be rememberthe in his episode before he had the

(47:05):
other Kevin had the cut, It'sright, yeah, would that have been
similar close to where they put thepacemaker? I think I think it probably
is a nice little call out forthe previous episode. That's how I kind
of And also I think it makessense why he ended up having the heart
attack and getting the pacemaker in him, because he blew up his alternative world
where he would go when he diedin the previous episode. So theoretically we're

(47:30):
going by that logic if he woulddie next time, he would not be
able to come back, right,you can never come back. Um.
So we then kind of come tothe pinnacle of this episode where Nora Durst
tells the story that she actually didum go through with it with the machine

(47:50):
um. And what happened was shejust kind of arrived in the same parking
lot, except there was no van. I think there's there naked UM.
She walked until she came to astore she had some clothes, kept walking
and took a while to find people. And what happened is that for the
people that departed, it was almostjust the inverse of what happened for everybody

(48:13):
on the other side, where ninetyeight percent of the world's population disappeared,
so technically I could have been rightthat it wasn't your theory. What's a
long time ago. It was onour Facebook page that somebody said, well,
so, so, yeah, Ithink you had said, I mean
again, if this is true,then I think you would be correct because
I think you had said something abouthow there would be a world where these

(48:36):
were the departed people. And Ithink again, if this, if this
reality holds, that is the truecase. Yeah, okay, I'll take
credit for her. I'm gonna arguewith myself at the end. So okay,
all right, it could get ugly. Um so she she you know,
naive to think that her kids andwould be in the same place,
same house, but she kind oftakes the long journey, needs to go

(49:00):
from Australia to Mapleton, New York. There's not really you know planes that
pilots are so scarce, but shethere is boats. Yeah. So so
let's let's think about what this worldlooks like with only two percent of the
population remaining. Is this like walkingdead territory after a certain amount of years,
or like things overgrown and people haveresorted to like insane militaristic societies whoever's

(49:22):
left. Well, it doesn't seemlike guy from her description, but a
few different Like even a friend ofthe podcast sees or is like, how
is this not a Walking Dead scenariowhere like just the bad guys sakers Like,
well, that's kind of a pessimisticviewpoint. Maybe maybe uh, this
is the good people are here.There's no zombies killing a bunch of people.
Yeah, but you got only twowhen saying two percent for this whole

(49:45):
whole country, the whole world,m I mean that that that's a lot
of there's could be a lot offighting, a lot of lal. I
mean people, you look at whatwas revolution that we used to watch revolution
revolution, Yet when with the powerwent out, I mean just a power
one, I mean the lost powerand chaos everywhere. So yeah, I
would think that they're but there's onlya two percent of the population. Laugh,

(50:06):
Like is there enough to really someone'sgot someone's gonna want to take power,
someone's gonna maybe maybe becomes this benevolentleader for the world, and there's
just not not the need for it. Then it should have been mentioned that,
Um I kind of I like thefact that because everything is always a
dystopia and it's probably what's going tohappen in our future anyway. But like,

(50:29):
I just it's nice to not haveit be another dystopia like it's always
I don't I don't think it couldbe helped. Yeah, I mean,
I mean. One of the thingsthough, that makes this such an interesting
story again, truth or falsehood isside, is that it's all about perspective.
And Nora talks about this when shevisits her family and realizes that they're
the lucky ones in this world inthat. I think it's been talked about

(50:52):
how The Leftovers can sometimes be avery depressing show, but it would be
a much more depressing show if wehad to go to the two percent or
whatever they decide to call it,and it's like a bunch of like orphaned
children and like a set of adultsprobably like that, like that poor baby
Sam, Like that kid is notgoing to make it through unless an adult

(51:14):
happens to find that baby quickly.Yeah, hopefully they hopefully Sam's Okay,
it probably didn't. Well, I'mjust gonna think the positive and somebody did
find that baby, just like Norahtook care of baby Lily that was on
her doorstep and then gave her awayback to her mother, back to her
mother. Um, so alleged mothergets back to Mapleton. Um, it

(51:39):
seemingly all the houses are still there'sweeds are overgrown, stuff like that,
and she kind of looks at afarfrom her family. Her husband has a
new wife, and the two kidsyou are now teenagers, are almost teenagers.
And she realized that they're luck winsbecause they're all together in a world
full of orphans. Um, theystill had each other and realize that,

(52:00):
you know, she didn't belong.That's when that's when she changed her mind.
She realized that she didn't belong there. But question, question, Now,
Doug has a new wife, apretty wife, Nora said, she
said pretty wife. Okay, Um, now with only two percent of the
population there, did he had?Does he is there enough for him to
have a mistress? Oh? Whatif? What if the one well,

(52:21):
yeah, what if the one thatDoug hooked up with was the woman that
Kevin was having sex with when cleaningthe gutters? Yeah, there you go.
Interesting? Interesting, Yeah there shedid depart. Actually funny if Kevin
here is like, hey, didyou also run into this person? Yeah?

(52:42):
I don't know her name, butis he gonna play cool. He's
like, oh no, I mean, I don't remember us ever having sex.
I just remember going to the barwith her. That's all I remember.
I tell you, I tell youhow a pacemaker. Yeah. So
uh. She then finds the personactually invent the machine that was the first
one, that person that was sentum and she asked him to build the

(53:07):
machine again and she gets sent backbecause there's only two percent of the population
there. You can find those materialsanywhere. Well, the material materials are
still going to be there, likeit's still the same world. Yeah,
but you got you gotta, yougotta get them, you gotta build them,
you gotta. It takes years.She's obviously you know they've they've aged.
So it's been years. Okay,okay, Um, so you get

(53:30):
to get the parts on eBay oreBay still there, you know, tells
Kevin, do you you don't believeme? And he says, of course
I believe me. It's it's what'syou so you told me what happened?
Actually, this was a fantastic scene. It was and yeah, and it's
just so I mean that the cinematographywas so tight, even though they didn't
do it like a single shot thing. But it's interesting because again Damon talks

(53:52):
about that about how he purposely didnot want it to be a single shot
because he wanted to cut to Kevinsometimes to remind people that it was a
conversation. But like you said thiswhole after the Big Tale, Kevin just
says, I believe you. Bywouldn't I believe you? You're here?
That just again speaks to this thistenet of faith that's existed in so many
way shaped or forms throughout the entiretyof the show. And the fact that,

(54:15):
like Kevin says, it doesn't matterif it's true or not. You
said it, so I believe it, and that's all that matters. Yeah,
exactly, And and for me,like for me watching it, I've
heard this from a lot of differentpeople, Like after that starts like,
yes, I believe it. Itmakes sense because from Norah's perspective, Nora
is always the kind of the truthseeker or the BS meter, if you

(54:37):
will, And it just sayesn't tome. It just wouldn't make sense for
her to make up this fantastical liewhen she could have easily just said yeah,
I backed down on it. No, I actually changed my mind when
I was already there and saw them, like, why make up this whole
big story? And I know peoplenow having time to sit on it and
think about it, are saying,well, because of all these different reasons.

(55:00):
To me, I still feel likethis is what happened. And even
more so when they were talking aboutin the writing room, they actually had
prans of showing all of this,but then they decided, no, let's
make a little bit more ambiguous.Um, it's more in tune with the
show to just have her tell thestory to be more engaging if she just
tells the story supposed to showing usthis. Um. But uh, so

(55:20):
it's intentionally ambiguous. But I chooseto believe that she is. I'm with
Kevin on this. I believe thathappened because she said it was, and
she's not someone uh to lie.UM, And it's not just that,
just the way she said it wasvery convincing. Um. There's no ums
in OZ for somebody that's kind ofmaking something up as they go along.
So I'm gonna believed she believed thestory because I think it did happen.

(55:45):
This is what happened, I'm saying. I'm saying Nora believed it. I
know because it happened. I didmake I did make a mistake. Though
you don't get your parts from eBay. You go on Amazon dot com slash
Jay and Jack or Jane Amazon andby your parts on there, even on
that, even in the other world, that's where you get your parts.
Well, let me, I'm gonnaplay Devil's Advoca a little bit with you,

(56:05):
Jay, just to get another perspectiveon the podcast, because I'm still
sort of in the ambiguous territory.I'm almost of the mindset. I'm almost
of Kevin's mindset, which is justsort of like who cares if it's true
or not. But I definitely hadthe moment at first where I'm like,
oh, yeah, of course Ibelieve her, because I think we are
so desperate for an explanation. Eventhough we are not saying, you know,
they've set at the top, we'renever going to explain what the departure

(56:27):
is that like, once we getthis sort of like little morsel for us
to chew on, then we're goingto digest it no matter you know,
what might be contained within that.But I don't know, there's something about
there's something alluring about this idea thatshe decides not to go through it.
She swores Matt, swears Matt's tosecrecy and as a result of like feeling
humiliated or maybe even feeling satisfied withherself, for you know, she she

(56:51):
decided to change her mind the lastminute that this is something this isn't something
she wants to risk lim in lifefor she sort of exiles herself and sort
of builds up this narrative in herhead. I know that you say that
she doesn't have an umarn uh inthere. She has been on her own
for years and years and years.She could have either written that story down
or why would she had no intentionto ever talk to Kevin again. She

(57:14):
had no intention to because she didn'texpect him to find her. Because I
think maybe maybe to her he representsa form of her previous life where she
feels like she comes off like afailure. Maybe she felt like when she
came out of that, she said, all right, this is another thing
of Nora cursed. Maybe the thingfor me to do is just to burn
it all down, salt the earthand start all over. Moved to a

(57:37):
new plot of land again. Thisis just me like throwing out Devil's advocate
things, because I mean there's alsothe thing of like, the story itself
is not the most waterproof story,this weird thing about her going over and
like meeting the inventor of the machine, and he decides because of her argument,
that's why he starts building the machineto send her back. You want
to think that he'd be like,hey, two percent of people, I

(57:59):
know that you're really suffering right now, why don't I send you through the
other side or the other ninety eightpercent of the people are. But I
feel like, you know, thisentire show has been about spinning these narratives
that aren't kind of false in away, and so I feel like it
would be fitting, you know.They say in the Inside Look that they
like this idea of putting the mostskeptical character in the place that requires the

(58:22):
most explanation. And wouldn't it beWe've seen these characters change so much in
the last season, in particular,wouldn't it be a fitting change for Nora,
the world's biggest skeptic, to allof these allegories and these tales,
to be the one to spin herown tail at the end of the day.
But that's where I think it's legitbecause she is the skeptic, so
she wouldn't make some yarn, sometale because it did happen. And while

(58:45):
I do say like, oh,if you did it for that, why
don't we do it for everybody elsethat was there? Maybe again, like
maybe it's not a dystopia. Maybethey're happy there, they've moved on.
Maybe everyone the two percent they don'thave twenty thousand dollars. But I mean,
that would be a horrible person ifhe's trying to extract twenty thousand dollars.
Hey, kid, cough up twentyk. Maybe it's uh, maybe

(59:09):
it's just very expensive, right,I mean, to to to move to
use the DeLorean for the time machine, you needed uh plutonium, which is
this very rare thing. He hadto steal from terrorists to do it.
Um, So maybe maybe the costassociated with is not That's why there's a
twenty grand per. I'm sure themachine is pretty cheap to build. I

(59:31):
don't know. I have no idea. I'm not a physicist or scientist,
but anyway, I just I justfigured I provide the other side. No,
I have another side. Yeah,I think this is for reforming like
a pyramid. Here this, trythis, try force of of theories.

(59:52):
Um so uh, but Jack,I will let you save your your side
here because I'm assuming it's part ofyour crack pat theory of the week,
your final crack bet theory of theweek for life final Leftover's crackpot the well,
hold on. That's that's the thingis it can't be proven wrong because
the way that the way they leftthe episode is it's okay, anybody can
have it could be anyone's opinion couldbe right. Yeah, And that's what

(01:00:13):
I love except maybe Jay, butI think everybody else could be right now.
And that's what I love about ittoo, is that, you know,
I also feel like in almost Idon't want to make this about like
the big societal implications, but Ido feel like we live kind of in
a world nowadays where it's all aboutlike I'm right and you're wrong. And
this is kind of a way tonot necessarily cop out, but to say,

(01:00:36):
hey, you know what, rightand wrong is a matter of perspective.
Here's something where people can interpret multiplethings and you don't need to necessarily
be right, you don't need tonecessarily be wrong. We're not going to
tell you if it's right or wrong. Yeah, it's just you what your
opinion is and what what you gotfrom the episode, what you got from
the series and what you got fromthis episode. The ending to me was
like, God, you could itcould go three ford it. I was

(01:00:57):
thinking for three or four different ways, and why I was thinking about it
again, think about it again.That's when I came up with what I
believe what happened. All right,final facts here before we go to listener
feedback, gentlemen and series and I'mI'm I'm sad to see it go.
Yeah. Um, And we shouldalso point out the final words. We
talked about Kevin's final words, butNora has the final line of the episode

(01:01:20):
that's the finale and the series withsaying I'm here, which again really nice
symmetry in that I believe Nora hashad the last line in each of the
season finales. Real final. Thefinal shot was the goat, right,
The final shot was panning out onthe and you have this really stunning shot
of the doves flying and all Imeant like, I kept my emotions pretty

(01:01:43):
contained, but I feel like whenthe doves came back, that's when I
started welling up a little bit justbecause it's it's as it might be sappy,
but it's such a beautiful moment.But yeah, season one, Nora
has the last line of you know, look what I found with baby with
Lily Lily. I think that's thelast line of the book as well.
They were source material. Season twois Norah walking out into the house saying
your home, and then season threewe now have I'm here. That's awesome,

(01:02:08):
just but just a fan I justlike I've always said, acting is
always great when they're not saying anything, and when Kevin just sitting there listening
to the stories, eyes are wateringup, it just was a fan I
just fantastic scene. Yeah really,And there's a really fun shot earlier on
in the episode that we didn't talkabout when the two of them are dancing
and the two of them like areturning and you see the emotion in Norah's

(01:02:29):
eyes and then it circles around andsee the emotion in Kevin's eyes, and
I think that's when we started thinkinglike, Okay, maybe he remembers more
than what he's letting on. Butreally, fantastic performance from all of them.
Can I call all three of usup? Because we've said that they
their story was over. Another hottake that QUI that quickly cooled again.
It's just it is interesting just howall of these characters stories unfolded, and

(01:02:52):
I think they all unfolded very satisfyingly. And I think, you know,
um, Damon, if he waslooking for I hope he wasn't looking for
a demps again, I enjoyed thefinale to loss. Um. I think
he was almost in a no winscenario with that any any any chance will
join us on the podcast. Uhmaybe he said he would. I think
we just have to ask. Butyou know, he he's also wants to

(01:03:13):
be the two Like once he saysthat he must be done talking about it,
but who knows. We'll see.We can talk other things we don't
have to talk about. But eitherway, how how trolly would that be
if we had Damon lindelofm We're like, so, uh, what's your favorite
Simpsons episode? So you know thereason I watched the Wires because of you?
Okay? Uh so uh? Butso I think if if he was

(01:03:37):
looking forward, he got it ina lot of ways. I think,
Um, just a really satisfying finale, really good finale. And all that
the character stories are wrapped up reallynicely, um and it was a great
storytelling and I I know some peopledidn't like it, but I thought it
was fantastic series and it's it's sointeresting in that looking at the way the

(01:03:59):
series finale plays against like this seriespremiere, where the series premiere felt very
worldly, and it makes sense becausethey're obviously setting up this world event,
but it was very much about likethis big bevy of characters. And we
talked about this throughout the last seasonthat it seems like they've sort of been
shedding the weight in a way thatlike, you know, Senior had his
episode, and Matt had his episode, and Laurie had her episode, so
now we're just sort of left withKevin and Nora, and if this episode

(01:04:23):
was pretty much exclusively about the twoof them, which is so much more
insular and self contained than I thinkwe initially expected. I know we sort
of grouse last week about like wedidn't see enough Tommy, we didn't see
enough Jill, But I think theseries purposely did that to be like,
at the end of the day,it's about these two characters, and that
bold of a choice is so interestingand the beauty was in the simplicity of

(01:04:44):
this entire episode. And it wasa huge roller coaster of a series,
but I'm so happy I got intoit. I would definitely call this one
of my favorite TV dramas out there, just because it says so much about
grief and loss and love and faithand coping and just life, and it

(01:05:04):
did it in such, honestly likea simplistic way. These are very heady
themes that philosophers had taken years uponyears to write about and pontificate on,
and this show was able to takethese concepts and say, this is our
point of view on it. We'regonna have it be represented through a guy
who ends up going to a hotelwhen he dies. So it's just the
simplicity. The beauty really is inthe simplicity, yea, of what the

(01:05:27):
show is able to pull off withits complex themes. Can I just say
I'm glad that they didn't listen tome after season two and just go stands
it because I was really worried aboutseason three. I said, I don't
know how you can improve on it, and they nailed it. It was
it was It just was a continuationof season two. It just was great
storytelling, I mean excellent. Yeah, and I'm glad they didn't listen to

(01:05:49):
me. And it tackled such Ithink, you know, touching on your
point, is it tackled topics thatshows and things and people just don't tackle,
like in terms of emotions and feelingsin faith and belief and like so
many things that people just do nottackle those emotions in those slots. And
it did it in such a greatway, um, And it made you

(01:06:12):
feel and it made you think aboutI think life in a completely different way.
But for me it did, andI think for a lot of people
did. I think it's what makesthe show, Like if you talk about
create a creative content, um,that that makes people feel things that maybe
they haven't felt or think about thingsin a different way. And I think
this show has done that and ina really poignant and beautiful way. And

(01:06:33):
I think, um uh, thatis the beauty of the Leftovers and it's
it's it's that and that's why Ilove that. The last song that we
had for it was that season twoopening theme, which is that let the
Mystery Be And I just I justeverything tied in so nicely, um,
so well written and kudos all aroundto the entire team For Leftos, I

(01:06:54):
think they they've they've completed themselves apretty fantastic show. Yeah, and next,
I mean, I think I hopethat these actors, you know,
do other fantastics. I don't knowhow exactly you move on from something as
heavy as this, but hopefully theydon't know. Justin Throw is a writer,
Carrie Coon has shown that she's beenable to jump onto other prestige dramas.

(01:07:16):
We shall see hopefully, you know, Damon and Tom Perota take some
well deserved time off to just sortof like I think Damon has now hopefully
been welcomed back into the arms ofthe general Internet populace after I think he
was sort of exiled by the receptionto the ending of Lost, but that
he shouldn't. That was yes,I mean, I again, you're you're

(01:07:38):
preaching to the choir here. Idon't know if our listeners will generally agree
with you, but yeah, Imean, it's so, it's just I
love this show. I don't knowif I'm gonna rewatch it anytime soon,
just because especially those first few episodesare kind of a dirge with just how
measurable they are, but justin throwagain in this inside Look has this really
interesting quote where he says, TheLeftovers is a show that a hacks the

(01:08:00):
meaning of life? And what othershow current or previous on TV? Can
you really think that their thesis statementwas about them attacking the meaning of life?
It's just so representative of the depthsthat The Leftovers really tries to plumb
with its theming igree. Would itbe easier for these actors to move on
to different roles because it wasn't eventhough we love it, it wasn't widely

(01:08:25):
received. I mean there wasn't.The ratings aren't through the room. It
wasn't like Loss where people picked eachseeing apart and all that different things.
Will it be easier for them tomove on to play? I mean a
lot of Lost actors have moved onto other things. I think, well,
that's what I'm saying. It justit could be easier for them,
just because you know, it's beenmore of the critical darling than the ratings

(01:08:47):
darling. I mean you look atTerry O'Quinn, who was fantastic and Loss,
and he struggles how many times he'sbeen on a different show. I
mean, yeah, I remember himhe's still Joe White from Hawaii Fivo.
I mean he's a fantastic, mean, incredible act I mean he's not maybe
he wants to. You don't know. You don't know what Terry Quinn is.

(01:09:10):
I don't don't know. I'm justsaying he just seems that his character
was so you know, he lockedJohn Locke. I mean he love him,
hate him. He was the justBut that's okay, like because it's
it's it's if any if any thinkany actors streaming just have like one iconic
character, just getting one iconic characterthat everybody knows you for. I don't
know, some people may like,uh poo poo on that. But for

(01:09:32):
Terry Quinn, who's been in amillion things, and it's been in a
million different TV shows, but havinga character like John Locket would probably be
the pinnacle. But who knows,there might be something more. You just
don't know, because I I don'twant to throw too much into that realm.
I'm just out there saying, youknow, it was you know these
I think these actors might have aneasier time going forward. They're great actors.

(01:09:53):
I'm just saying that might be iteasier for them to not be typecast.
Okay, but for last I don'tthink anbody' typecast on Lost. I
think I think it was at first. I mean some of these they would
go, oh, you know,like Jorge when he did Alcatraz, Okay,
this is gonna be the next lost. Everything was the next lost,
Everything was the next lost, Everythingwas the next lost, even typecast or
is that just like people are alwaystrying to find the next loss, like

(01:10:15):
after lost, everything like trying tobe there. But I think it was
fa when like Terry Quinn did ashow that hotel show where it was haunted
not haunted, I don't know.It was mystery type show. Oh it's
just the next loss because it hadTerry Quinn on it. But that's not
tidecasting in my opinion. I thinkit's just I think it's people people looking.
If you're if you're an actor fromLoss and and people are looking,
we need to have Lost back,We need to have a show like Loss

(01:10:38):
back again. And if you're acharacter, I mean, I think Josh
Holloway did a show where he wassome kind of thing where he I don't
know, I'm just throwing it outthere. Well, I think that the
TV landscape is also very different fromwhat it was from two thousand and four
to two thousand and twen, whereI feel like there's just so much on
there that I feel like these actorswould be able to do different things,

(01:11:00):
and maybe we'll point to them andbe like, oh look Amy Brennman,
Hey, that's Laurie. But Ifeel like like Christopher Ecklinson, for example,
I'm sure the world remembers him muchmore than's the one season of Doctor
Who than the three seasons as MattJamison. I remember is a Judging Amy.
So that's me. Guys. Don'teven you didn't watch Judging Amy.

(01:11:21):
I'm judging you for that choice.My wife and I used to watch Judging
Amy. I'm just throwing oh man, all right, well, enough of
our pontificating here. Why don't wego to what our listeners thoughts. Let's
time for some listener feedback. Guys, what do you say? Do it?
Do it all? Here we go? Listener. Hey, guys,

(01:11:45):
this is the Coast calling from Westwood. Just got done watching Left Ors finale
and still process here, not mentallybut emotionally. It was just beautiful in
it, and just linger with you. So beautifully done, the music and
everything. UM, but I justhad a couple of thoughts and wanted to

(01:12:08):
get your opinions. One of those, you know, when you saw Nora
walking naked in the machine, itactually reminded me of Cercy's naked walk in
Game of Thrones and just sort ofthe contrast between those two scenes two of
my favorite shows. And you know, in many ways I think the Leftovers

(01:12:29):
that scene was actually more powerful forme. UM. Good thing and this,
you know the show doesn't answer explicitly, but I wonder what did happen
after Kevin was on the roofe withhis dad. Do you think Kevin told
everyone about what he experienced this timearound when he quote unquote died and how

(01:12:49):
reacted to that and whatever came andfinally people from their shoes and he now,
Um okay. An incredible decision forU two is because all right,

(01:13:15):
guys, thanks podcast one of thebest of all time. Hey guys,
this is Brad um Mississippi. Greatfinale last night, as the Leftovers.
Just wanted to mention one or twothings, UM, particularly concerning Norah's story
at the end UM and whether ornot she actually crossed over UM. One

(01:13:40):
of the things that really stuck withme was something that's been done said about
those pigeons that she talked about thethe wedding guests, and how that they
had a nicer story as to wherethe pigeons went with the messages. Um,
it really got me thinking about anovel fairly recent novel by high by
Joan Tell, basically is the storyof a young boy who is shipwrecked on

(01:14:05):
a lifeboat and it ends up withjust him and a tiger. And at
the end there are all these officialstrying to figure out what the true story
of what really happened to him was. And the book basically is this fantastical
boy is just his survival with thetiger. They don't believe the story because

(01:14:29):
all these fantastic, crazy things happenthat don't seem believable, so he gives
them a more realistic story. Andthe question at the end is which story
is the better story, Which storyis true story, the one where he
survives with the tiger or the morerealistic, bleak, dismal story that he
tells in order to appease the officials, and of course the officials, and

(01:14:55):
at the end degree that the fantasticalstory is the better one. So I
wonder if the writers doesn't Liftovers ofDamon Linda Lost, maybe uh gained some
inspiration from that novel. Um itdoes the book like the episode last Night,
Life of Pie in the episodes lastNight both leave it up to interpretation.

(01:15:16):
So um, what are your guysthoughts? Thanks? Bye? All
right, thank you for those calls. Well, Jack, Brad did call
them pigeons as well, so that'ssomeone in your camp there you go.
I you know, when I thinkof when I think a bird of return,
I waste to think of pigeons.So well, doves, doves and
pigeons are closely related, so Imean, there's there's something to be said

(01:15:39):
about that. But pigeons, Imean, pigeons are kind of pigeons.
So um. But but I actuallyhad the same thought as Brad. I
remember reading Life of Pie like sophomoreyear of high school. So it's been
a while. But yeah, spoileralert for the book. Uh, the
core of it. He does havea little bit of the beginning where like
Pie almost has like a crisis offaith and he chooses like three different religions

(01:15:59):
at one But the main crux ofthe book is him in a lifeboat after
a shipwreck with a bunch of differentanimals. Then when he finally gets rescued,
he tells the people that rescued himthis story about how he was,
you know, in the in theboat with a bunch of people, and
how the you basically auld love todecide, you know, which one is
the true story, which one isthe better story. So I was definitely
getting feelings of that with Norah's storyas well. And he also points out

(01:16:24):
the moment where, you know,when she drops by to visit the abbey,
before you know, she finds thegoat. The the nun is sort
of you know, weaving her ownstory, and Norah's talking about like,
you know, hey, did theysee the little ragamuff and sneaking out of
the top coop And he's like,oh no, you know, he's the

(01:16:45):
father. He takes alarics and gowherever he wants. And she's like,
you know, oh, like that'sa that's a really like cockamam me story.
And she basically says like, yeah, well it's a better one,
and that might get Nora's gears turningagain. A bit about how the truth
doesn't necessarily matter as much as maybecreating a good story does. But here's
my thing, because again, she'skind of calling bs on all of these

(01:17:06):
fake stories, so where I don'tsee it in her character to then pivot
and then come with her own fakestory Like that's where it doesn't It doesn't.
Maybe it's maybe she believes the storyshe's telling. I get that you
keep saying this check because it's gonnacome into your theory. So I understand
it. I understand where you're comingout here, but I just I don't.
It just doesn't sell it to methat she she lied about this.

(01:17:28):
That's just that's just my thoughts.I don't think what it was lying,
well, what do we think aboutour friend from Westwood here? Uh hbo
comparison aside with Circe's Walk of shame, this idea of hey, we saw
that's all that's coming back soon foryou guys, I can't believe it.
But you know, we had atthe end of episode seven, Senior asking
Kevin what's next maybe a tribute tothe west Wing, but we don't see

(01:17:54):
what happens next. We have Kevinjust sort of explain it almost like Nora
did. We don't really see anythinghappen. Any ideas as to what could
have happened in the immediate aftermath afterthe storm. Well, I mean it's
Papa Garvey ends up being all rightbecause he's ninety one, um or is
he? Uh? You know JohnMichael and uh, you know Laurie.

(01:18:15):
They go back to Jar and theylive in Jar and are happy. Uh,
Kevin goes back to Jarn. Like, so, I guess you really
want you really want this happy endingstory because I think it's there, like
it's given to us. Why whydo we have to weave some tale where
it's not what they've get told becausethat that's what we do, because because
because because it wasn't black and whitewhat they how they told the story,

(01:18:36):
they left it back and right.It's just like, it's just you heard
a story. You heard them tellthis, So you either choose to believe
him or not believe him, whichI guess is the again basis by any
faith period. But it's not.But this is what I disagree. It's
not a matter of believing the storythey told. They told a story,
and it's up to you to decidehow the story went, I know,

(01:18:57):
and it's up to me to believethem, and I believe him, but
oh you believe Norah? I believeI believe Kevin too and what he said
because I feel like, yeah,that makes sense. This is what happened.
Okay, Why why aren't you hearand go like Nope, that's not
it because why why would he die? Why would he lie? They didn't
lie, No one lied, Theyall died. There's this there's this theory

(01:19:20):
what they believed happened. Okay,On another subject, what do you think
the conversation was like when Lorie cameback from her Scooba trip after all of
this and just sort of like didshe apologize to them for being absent?
Did you just sort of like say, oh, yeah, I did this.
Let's go back to Jardin. Well, I mean maybe I would assume

(01:19:41):
they kissed and made up in termsof john and and Lorie. Here,
remember I didn't tell you about Evie. That's okay, you know, because
Johnson did to forgive her immediately forthat too, and that happens. Remember
when I drugged you took off.Do you think do you think Kevin told
john like that he saw Evie andor he tells Grace that he saw her

(01:20:02):
children. That's a good question.I thought he did tell him. He
did. I remember he did,he did, he did when he came
back your children, Yeah, hesaid, he told him. Yeah.
The only one didn't see was ChristopherSunday and he was well, brought me
back too soon. And I thinkand I think Sunday realized that or no,

(01:20:25):
that senior very quickly realized that,you know what Sunday was going to
tell Kevin anyway when the flood didn'thappen. Because that's why I did.
I have a little doubt that helived to be ninety one. He seemed
pretty depressed on that. People weredepressed all the time. They get undepressed.
It happens. He looked close toninety one as it was. I
don't I don't discuss Scott Glenn isan athletic m F for I mean,

(01:20:47):
this guy was also remember he waslike the chief of police like seven years
beforehand. So I think it's alsothe first American in space. So that's
that's another thing going for him.All right, let's go to these next
set of calls. Guys, whatdo you say? We have a we
have an over three minute long call. It's a two Parter and another craft

(01:21:10):
of that. So let's let's jumpinto those right now. Hey, Jay,
Jack, and Mike, this isMichael calling from Los Angeles. I
want to apologize in advance because thisis going to be long. I have
a lot of thought it might probablybe two calls. So first thing's first
amazing episode. I think Damon andhis team pulled off an ending that was

(01:21:30):
truly satisfying without giving answers to everysingle question the audience inevitably had. I
want to know Kenny Goats win EmmyAwards because that goat was fantastic. He
or she played an understated role flyingbeneath the radar. And also that goat

(01:21:50):
was huge. I don't know ifyou noticed. It struck me as very
large, much bigger than other guiltsthat were sacrificed. And when Nora attempted
to free it, I half thoughtthat it would just munch her hand off.
The scene with Matt and Nora inthe beginning was incredible. I thought
it was very well acted, verywell filmed. I loved the cinematography.

(01:22:14):
I thought the foggy, cloudy weathercould have so many interpretations. I viewed
it as Nora and Matt finding commonground after having so much strife between them,
and they were in this great pazeof comfort together reliving childhood memories when
Matt made her feel loved and carefor. And I actually throughout the episode

(01:22:35):
there were a lot of beautiful shotsNora biking as we sleep over the countryside,
as she arrived at the wedding,just a lot of great cinematography.
Every lover of this show should atsome point read Alan set the Wall's article
on Uprock. I posted it onthe Jay and Jack's Facebook page. It's

(01:22:57):
an interview with Damon. That's that'sjust really really good and add great context
to this episode and series as awhole. Having read it and having watched
the finale, I do wonder,if Nora really didn't make it to the
other side, why didn't doctor VanEgan have other people go back to be
with their loved one. Surely therewere some unhappy people, and Nora said

(01:23:18):
it herself that they lost so muchmore than us, and David says she
wouldn't want to risk not coming back, that doctor Van Egan wouldn't want to
come back and then not be ableto get back. But why not to
send some other people? I justI don't know. That part seems a
little incongruent to me. Maybe thisis tunipicky, but I don't buy that.

(01:23:41):
Laurie just trust that Kevin is okay. She knows him really well,
and I think she would ask howhe's doing and get to the bottom of
it. I don't know. Ijust think she's too smart and aware not
to know, So that's part Ifound a little hard to believe. My
favorite line was the goat about thecoach, when she asked him, have
you ever seen a goat sacrifice?Kevin? And he said no, that

(01:24:04):
would be weird. I just thatpartnered me crack up. And last and
not least, I just thought itwould be fun to point out that,
hey, again, guys, it'sMichael from Los Angeles. Just my final
thought. Last, but not least, I just thought it would be fun
to point out that Scarlett, who'scalled in on a number of occasions,
is my better half and the onethat introduced me to the show. I

(01:24:28):
watched season one and was deeply saddenedby it all, and I wasn't intending
on watching anymore. But then inlistening to you guys talk about it on
the Ramble cast and just other podcastsyou were gushing about season two and that
made me came back and try itagain, and I'm so glad I did.

(01:24:53):
Thanks so much for podcasting about thisshow and I can't wait to hear
the epistep. Guys, this isKyle from Texas. UM. I just
wanted to say that I'm sure I'mjoining the majority chorus here and saying that
that was an excellent finale to notonly in the season, but the series.
UM, you know, having ahaving an intimate, character driven story

(01:25:18):
with just kind of off hand explainingaway the major um story of it's like
the underlying driving story of the wholeshow is such an awesome, um creative
way to to end a series that'ssuch a character driven series in and of

(01:25:42):
itself. UM, I don't wantto, you know, toot my own
horn here, feel like a littlebit of a j or a Jack excused
me in saying that I had asneaking suspicion that the that the the parted
were almost in a separate universe wherewhere they were the ones that stayed and

(01:26:06):
ninety eight percent of the people left. M But you know, I never
said anything, so I guess itdoesn't count just looking forward to hearing you
guys talk about it. And uh, yeah, that was that was an
awesome, awesome episode summed up verynicely. All right, see you guys.
All right, thank you for thosecalls. So at first, up,
Mike from Los Angeles. I don'tbelieve that goats can win Emmy Awards.

(01:26:30):
Maybe it should, Maybe there shouldbe a separate category four animals,
a Uey Award in honor of thefemale sheep. But all fairness, the
most difficult scenes, I think we'reCGI. So can we really give give
the Emmy to a CGI goat whowasn't I was? I thought the goat
did a tremendous job showing it wasin danger. I believed it, But

(01:26:53):
that was CGI. That wasn't thereal goat. You said that leftovers n
CGI anything? No they yes,I did, I say, dji.
I got no you said I reallyI said about the birds because you said
they don't see GI. I didnot say that. I think you did.
Check the tape. I can't.Oh, we don't. We don't
have time. Your internet might goout. It's true. I give that,
And Mike, Michael, just thanksfor listening. Yeah, and then

(01:27:15):
then such a like, let's allgive um, we have all the audience
A nice big awe to his revelationthat Scarlet, frequent feedback commenter is his
better half. A yeah, sosweet bringing people together. I need a
tissue. Um AnyWho uh Kyle,Kyle's call or anything else? Take the

(01:27:42):
credit, Kyle takes the credit.Anytime you're right, it doesn't matter you
just you just gotta sell it.Take a page from Jack's life. You
just gotta be like Nora. Justbelieve what you're telling is the truth.
There you go. Um all right, so uh, let's go into some
emails here. This first one isfrom Jeremy. Hello everyone, it's your
favorite replicant from your West World podcast, not Ethan, writing into The Leftovers

(01:28:08):
for the first time. I wantto thank y'all. Despite being from Texas,
I unfortunately now live in LA.I have given up on Leftovers a
few episodes season two. After hearingyour glowing over It's on your Lost in
Westwore podcast, I decide to finishthe season and I'm keeping up with season
three. So thanks. What Ilove about Little Leftovers is the exploration of

(01:28:28):
the human condition. Oh sorry,I lost my place. There we go.
There's this need in all characters tocover their pain in dealing with mystery.
We all have mystery in our lives, with the show gives us the
tangible shared mystery, and we getto see all these wonderful actors play interesting
characters trying to make sense of theirlives lived in spite of this unknown.
Because of this, actually like seasonone a bit better than season two.

(01:28:50):
I love the moon and tone.I love the mystical nature. I love
the relationship between Kevin and his daughterwhenever happen to Amy. I miss Jill
being in season three and trade apopular opinion, I didn't prefer the Murphy
storyline season two overseeing Kevin deal withhis own family. However, I do
see how the show got more interestingin season two and love that it's set

(01:29:10):
in Texas and shot in Austin.I must say I'm not a fan of
Nora. I don't see how shecan be the best thing for Kevin.
She's kind of an a hole mostof the time, isn't she. I
love characters character on Fargo, butnever been a big fan here. I'm
loving season three and hearing your insight. Seeing three has been amazing so far.
The only thing I miss is MaxRichter's beautiful score, which has been
sidelined this season. Excited to watchthe finale and hear your thoughts. PS.

(01:29:33):
Why aren't you Twin Peaks fans consideringyour lost heritage? PPS? I'm
looking at my last rewatch podcast withJane Jack and see no new episode since
July. What gives fair? Tobe fair? The squee have said it's
the slowest rewatch in podcast history.Yeah, it's just we're gonna keep us

(01:29:54):
going until we're as old as well. Jack's already that old, but until
I'm as old as Kevin and Nora. In this episode, I'm guessing you
don't age as well as Kevin,though I feel like I could if I
gave it. It's in you.I know it's in your jeans. I
was like, you're looking at ina mirror right now, Jay, I
see more. I see you morelike Nora. I at least have have
my hair. And I think Noralooks good. I don't think she looked

(01:30:15):
bad. She looked better after shetook a bath. Yeah, oh jeeze,
I'm just being honest. Thank you, not Ethan the Twin Peaks.
That's a good point with it comingback I've not seen it at all.
If you have, you watched it, Mike, I've never seen Twin Peaks.
I mean it also, I meaninitially came out in the early nineties
when I was but a wee babby. Um. Also, I'm not generally

(01:30:40):
before Lost, I was really notinto the very like creepy mystical types of
shows. My wife Angela has watchedthe first two seasons before you know this
one premiered, so she's more caughtup in a n I am. And
even she tells me, I'm reallynot into like horror stuff, and she
said, like, there might besome times when you're really creeped out.
So I was too busy preparing forthis where I kind of unfortunately pushed Twin

(01:31:01):
Peaks to the side. But Iknow that a former guest and one of
my other podcast partners, aj Mass, it's his favorite show of all time,
so it's on my docket too,so I'll be able to catch up
on it eventually belatedly, but Ido apologize that I won't be able to
do it in the moment. Forthe recent revival. Yeah, people always
gonna meet crap because I'm old andthey said you should why but I had

(01:31:24):
kids back then, we did.I don't think we even had it.
We went awhile without even TV,so I didn't have we'd have DVR recorder,
we didn't have anything. So Ithink it was on when I was
ten, of though it was Foxeslike nineteen ninety. Yeah, but I
was probably working a lot. RememberI was working a lot of nights.
So I'm gonna say it was onwhen I was not excuses excuses Now,

(01:31:44):
I didn't just show you a watchback then, Jack and all fairness like
you you were like a signed filmms SE TV kind of guy back then,
well, I was. I wasat all. I liked all TV,
but there was a stretch there whereI did I didn't have time all
right. Well, what I willsay about Jeremy's email really quickly interesting points
about season one is compared to seasontwo. I did really enjoy the Kevin

(01:32:06):
and Jill relationship because we sort ofhad a big question marks about Kevin and
Tommy and Kevin and Lorie. Ido feel like that Kevin and Jill relationship
was his most tangible relationship, soit's interesting to really see that strengthen.
And I do agree I've sort ofmade my intentions clear about how I was
sort of disappointed about how played orhow Jill's character has kind of like shifted

(01:32:29):
towards the background to the point ofwhere she was in one episode this season
and had her voice in another one, which is sort of sad because she
really was like a main character inseason one. Granted it was with those
asshole teenagers, but still it waslike a really interesting character to see,
like how the youth approached this ideaof the departure and almost like the nihilism
that went hand in hand with it. So I think that that is a

(01:32:49):
factor of season one that doesn't makeit unwatchable. I think that that's definitely
one of the strongest elements of thefirst season. But he said he's not
a Nora fan. I know Jeremyhas like the opposite opinion of like just
about everybody on the show. IsI find interesting. I find it fascinating,
but like, and the thing isthat she's an a hole. Yeah,
but so is Kevin. Kevin's inseason one is such a freaking a

(01:33:12):
hole. He doesn't exactly become youknow, mother Teresa over seasons two and
three. To be fair to Kevin, his wife doesn't talk to him.
Dad's a literal lap, you know, I mean, just actually it might
have been a good thing. Um. No, I think Nora. I
think Nora is good for him becauseshe calls him out. She doesn't she
doesn't let him get away with hisuh his crap, So that's very true.

(01:33:35):
And they're both broken people, soI think they they I don't know,
they look they look happy at theend, so that's all that matters
exactly. Um all right, Sothis next email here, uh from a
Twitter handle? Ats what I think? Or wat I think? Um?
My finale final predictions slash also anyif my predictions don't come true. The

(01:33:58):
departure was not a godly intervention,just a cosmic blick which sent our characters
into an alternate universe almost identical theone they left behind, which is why
they don't realize they are departed.While this is not an original theory borrow
from Jack, my prediction is thefinal episode will be the universe self correcting.
Is Kevin nukes the hotel Slash theAfterlife playing saying all of them back
to the place where they left behind, only in the present day. No

(01:34:21):
time has passed, and they returnedto the very moment they departed. The
time slash space continuum is a mysteriousbeast as we learn and loss. We
see Sam's mom once more on thefront seat of the car, with Sam
wailing in the back. Before thishappens, Nora and Matt capture the scientists
and the machine built, but ina moment of guilt, Nora calls Jill
and confesses her part in Laurie's deathand asks her to tell Kevin she loves

(01:34:45):
him and she's sorry. Before shecan step through the machine, Matt convinces
her to let him go through instead, as he is already dying and cannot
be saved from his cancer. Kevinnukes the hotel dimension, and Nora finds
herself back with her family, allseat at the breakfast table, just as
they were that day that had parted. Only one thing is different. This
time, Nora is pregnant with Kevin'schild, our evidence that everything that happened

(01:35:06):
happened winky. Kevin returns to findthat Lori has not because she checked out
and went to another place by committedsuicide. He has a hard time getting
a grip on reality from his constantflipping between the multiverses and news from Joe
that Nora has gone. He endsup taking his own life for the final
time in a Roman Juett type endingNora will find him one moment too late.

(01:35:30):
This is my theory and I'm stickingto it. It's amazing, it's
amazing, it was spot on.It's it's a cool theory, though,
I mean, it is an interestingtake, and it's and it goes sort
of again going back to this lostDNA. I think there's what a lot
of people thought at the time ofthe season six premiere, where you have
Juliet, you know, setting offthe nuke and then it cuts to Jack

(01:35:54):
being on the plane as it settledsafely at Lax and you think, like,
okay, did the nukes send theminto the parallel dimension the whole flash
sideways thing of where the plane actuallylanded and they went on with their lives.
And it seems like he's going alongwith that sort of logic here,
which again, as someone who hadmany many predictions get proved wrong over the
course of this podcast, I reallycannot throw stones in my glasshouse for you

(01:36:17):
know, him having an incorrect prediction. I can. It's so kind of
you, Jack, so so Kyle, I'm just actually I like the best
best part was no being painted withKevin's baby. That's definitely a Jack type
theory because then you get take this, Doug, It's not yours, Doug,
all right? Uh this one ispost episode m Hello. Gent's been

(01:36:42):
listening to this season left over hispodcasts. Also, I'm a listener and
fan of your West World cast,and of course i'mine a fan from back
in the Lost day. So thanksfor all the great work, insights,
high pitched giggles, snarky puns,and postulations for over a decade. Who's
the high pitched giggles? That's that'sme. I'll take that one. Okay,
I'm a pretty high pitched giggle aswell. So you're among friends.

(01:37:03):
See there you go, Jack,you're the outcast baby, don't mess around
all nicely. All in all,the serious finale was impressive, inspiring,
and inelegant. Last week, youguys were mentioning that there's no way Damon
would end Leftovers like lost after allthe heat he took. But I think

(01:37:26):
that's exactly what he did, butjust in a little smarter and less overly
overtly explicit way, but still comingfrom the ultimate desire for a happy,
satisfying and meaningful ending. Nora,much like the Sea of viewers, wants
answer, so she seeks out themachine. She repeated to ask Kevin for
the truth. She's got a phoneof friend Laurie to figure things out.
She wants love, but is scaredof the consequences. She is skeptical of

(01:37:48):
the mysteries of life, but stillkeeps collecting Messenger love doves and manages to
rescue the scapegoat and take on thosesins. She is somehow both angry and
jealous with the man love and noneof Saint Mary's so all along and in
the end, Nora is still humans, still surviving, and all of the
symbolism the this world, that worldtrips and sandwich eating dogs, while fun

(01:38:13):
and exciting, doesn't matter at theend of the day. Who you share
your time with to have a cupof tea somewhere quiet with love is the
meaning of life. Don't get mewrong, I think we all would have
wanted to see Nora's journey in thecross off her place and those she met,
but her exposition of it was enough. Clearly she really didn't get what
she wanted out of the journey,and so she had to come back and

(01:38:35):
finally accept her existence. The worldbefore the departure was like a gourmet ten
course meal, and when people disappeared, taking those flavors and servings with them,
those that remain had to figure outwhat to do with all those leftovers.
Do they nuke it into a saltymicrowave heap, or do they turn
what they have into something new?I think finally Nora and Kevin realize that

(01:38:56):
together now they can make something new. Cheers for the tears. Sasha ps
if Jack has his crack path theoriesand Mike has his hot takes, then
by the logic of celebrity smash,Jay's should be a hot pot cake take,
saying that for our next project.Yeah, that was brand of Applaus

(01:39:16):
to Sasha. That was beautifully worded. I loved that that like leftovers literal
leftovers metaphor as well. And yeah, she brings up a great point about
how at the end of the day, it's about who you share your time
with. And again they talk inthe Inside Look about how season two in
a way sort of ended with Kevinrealizing that he wanted to be homeward bound.
It didn't really matter what he wassearching for. At the end of

(01:39:39):
the day, he was finding solacein his friends and his family and his
other loved ones. So I'm happythat amidst all the complications that happened in
this past season, they still wentback to that well at the end of
the day and then promptly pushed achild into it. All right, let's
go to this next email here fromJamie. Wow, this finale is all

(01:40:00):
I hoped it would be. Iknow there's a lot of debate as so
Nora. Did she tell the truthor not? In my heart of hearts,
I feel she did well, asI feel like the writers knew she
was and left it up to usto make our own minds. She lies,
it's what she does. But inthis episode we saw her do the
Nora thing by scoffing at the ideaof pigeons delivering love notes. She's scott
at the idea of love itself.While at the wedding, when she saved

(01:40:21):
that goat by carrying the sins forhim, something changed. I think she
finally was able to face the factsand sometimes the magic is real and it's
okay to have hope and believe insomething plus, you know it's a better
story. Also, I believe herbecause I want to. I want to
believe that the apart are together,as she found some version of peace.
And I think that's one of themajor themes of the show. What does

(01:40:42):
belief by you? The one thingthat gets me the more I think of
it. If Norah's story is true, then that lady's baby does show up
in the same parking lot alone andas a mother. That thought breaks my
heart. Also, if the machinenow works both ways, would it be
considered a wormhole? I mean,technically, if it allows for inter interdimensional
travel, I think it qualifies asa wormhole. I really liked that they

(01:41:08):
touched on the fact that Kevin isno longer immortal an undiagnosed heart condition.
Yeah, that'll happen when you shoveyour arm into your chest cavity and pull
out magical nuclear keys. Anyway,I'm gonna miss this show. It was
nearly perfect through and through. Anothergreat podcast is done, an over great
job, guys. Thank for allthe work you do. Y'all truly some
of the best geckos, Ah Niceand Jamie. I do want to point

(01:41:33):
out though, that I want tobelieve is not the motto of this show.
It's a motto of another Prestige drama. I just want to point out
another pigeon reference we've had. We'vehad both people say does and pigeons.
I know, I feel like thatthere's there's more of a division of does
versus pigeons than it is. IsNorah telling the truth or is she lying?

(01:41:53):
Is that our next versus on theRamblecast, doves versus pigeons? Um,
it's popular. I'm getting text fromchrist and Boston. He's watching West
Wing and he's not happy with us. Something that just happened in there.
Oh that's gladulating. I'm getting thisthese effing comments. I'm like, who
the heck is that? What isthe going? And then I finally read

(01:42:14):
it. This next email is fittingin our last Leftovers podcast. Um,
hey guys, Wow, that wasintense. I spent too much time today
trying to di sect it all.I'm going to go with my gut on
this one. At ten twenty lastnight, I bought Norah's story hook line
and sinker. Give it up tothe performance, Give it up to writing,

(01:42:35):
Give it up to one of thebest TV shows of all time.
After a rewatch, it's easy tosee both sides of the situation. My
brain is telling me Norah's story itwas perfect tale from a smart person who
worked investigating Frosen, who had timeto think about it and need to use
it when she finally decided to givein and let the mystery be, just
move on with some sense of self. My brain also tells me that Kevin,

(01:42:55):
who is so at peace and everythingexcept Nora, goes with it in
a second because he's so happy sheis there. That's the whole point.
As I'm sure everyone has already pointingout, Penelope has an awesome fin Grandpa,
I just want to point out howI thought the last episodes of the
season seemed to encapsulate each relative seasoncertified, gun punching dark line, Season
one, the most powerful man inthe world, all the awesome hotel supernatural

(01:43:18):
elements that helped elevate this show andbook of Nora. What this season,
the whole show has been about peoplefinding peace even when surrounded by loss.
So I'll just wrap this up andsay, if there is ever a gun
to my head. In question iswas Nora started the intellect words of the
truth? My answer is Norah Durstdoesn't lie. I just want to say
thanks again for reading my emails,as long winded and off topic as they

(01:43:41):
are. Sometimes, it's been greatinteracting with two thirds of the podcast ha
even I can leave lingering questions.Hopefully, after my week of podcasts and
grieving, I can emerge from theunderground and interact with regular folk again.
Shout out to Cam, Dennis Scott, Matthew, Brian and everyone else on
the Facebook group who beats is aboutthis with me all the time talked to
you students. Maybe Ethan PS Ilied. I would never leave you guys

(01:44:04):
with lingering questions. The answer is, Mike, I know it. Damn
it well, Jack, congratulations formoving up to number two in his likabilities.
That that's that's I think it wasthe last week. I think you
heard his I think you hit.I think he had a little sad face

(01:44:25):
on the even though I ended uptalking up his email at the end of
it. I think, I think, I think I think your heart really
wasn't in that. You're no Norawhen it comes to telling a story.
Yeah, apparently I'm not that good, but I mean I do want to,
like not facetiously. Actually, thankEthan always one of the best emailers,
always every week coming in with lengthybut really interesting takes on everything.

(01:44:48):
So I'm excited to see him backfor Westworld season two, hopefully when Jay
is going to be his least favoritepodcast you have a turn. It is
a rare world where I'm the mostlikable out of out of the three of
us, so because usually with threepodcaster Jake comes in fourth. So I
don't know how this is work canhappen, but yes, a second and

(01:45:11):
third uh it's Ethan is one ofthe uh the awesome recurring contributors to this
show. So thank you Ethan,uh and and and the fact that we
have a not Ethan is great aswell. Um, part of the fun
of these shows. All right,well that is what you guys thoughts.
And now it leads us to thelast ever crackpot theory for the Leftovers from

(01:45:33):
Action Jackson Lets unless we do arewatch because remember with loss, they still
have to do a crackpot theory orhow how piss would people be if instead
of doing the loss rewatch you insteadjust decided to do a leftovers rewatch instead.
We'll start with l right, yeah, yeah, so yeah, um,

(01:45:55):
well, well we'll ask Damon whathe wants us to do. All
right, So Jack, are youbecause you've been you tease, uh,
this this theory, you know theworst part. As as we've been going
on, I've been writing more thingsdown and it's like to help what I
think happened. So it's it's it'sit's like a mess. Now, well,
let me get the drum set readyhere, give you time to collect

(01:46:16):
your thoughts for your final leftovers crackpath theory of the week until the rewatch
before lost. Here we go again. Like I said from the beginning,
it's not anybody any beauty. Itcould be anybody. You could anybody could

(01:46:38):
be right. Are you rack pedalingnow on this theory? Because no,
no, no, no, I'mI'm this is what I said. This
is what I think happened. Wegot the beginning. We got the beginning
of season one. We are seasonthree. We have the lady in the
beginning, her and her husband,their son, they're they're praying to the
gods, the pigeons, they're bringingnotes and all this different stuff. They

(01:46:58):
give the goat away this one andat the end, she would happened.
At the end, she died alone. We don't know if she died alone.
She was just alone because everybody,her family left her and everything.
She died alone. She didn't die. We don't know if she died.
She died eventually assumed not to.It's it's eighteen forty four, we're now
two thousand. She died, butyeah, so she she she died.

(01:47:25):
We don't know if she died alone. Maybe she got back with her family.
We don't know. The husband wasdone with her. He dugged her.
I mean there was no there wasno question but that, um,
let's see, uh, she doesshe know, she doesn't know that Laurie
killed herself. So of course shecan call Laurie because she thinks Laurie's alive.
Right. Also, as we pointI think Mike pointed out, Laurie

(01:47:45):
said, Laurie or someone's point outthat Laurie wouldn't keep it, wouldn't tell
Kevin, right, So Kevin ofcourse is going to keep coming to Austraia
looking for because he doesn't know whereshe's at because Laurie never told her.
We Lorie never told him. BecauseLorie is is dead, so her she
hasn't her kids, she hasn't seenin seven years plus we have to assume

(01:48:09):
her husband would move on because he'sDoug, right, so that that happened.
So she's telling the story that Kevin, Kevin doesn't know who that they
dated. Come on, Kevin,I mean the whole thing. Well,
I was trying to get you toI'm not buying that. And then we
have the uh, the machine itselfhad to cost hundred millions of dollars to

(01:48:31):
make, right, if this wasa real machine, it would cost millions
upon millions of Well, you don'tknow, you don't how much it would
costs. We don't know. I'mtelling you right now. Zamboni costs one
hundred and twenty five thousand dollars.Yeah, this is a machine that has
all this different crap on. Itcan transport you to another dimension, all
this different stuff, and they're onlycharging a twenty thousand dollars for the ride.

(01:48:51):
Maybe they repurpose some Zamboni parts.Exactly. There you go, not
to mention, not to mention thatthe guy built another machine using Amazon,
another machine, and out of nowherehe had the money to buy this other
machine. All right, So I'mnot buying the whole machine. And then

(01:49:15):
Kevin in this in this in thisworld in her life. Kevin had to
mysteriously he can't die. If hedies, he's dead forgot right, Well,
we don't know for sure. Wejust assume. Well we're assuming.
So my theory is that when shewas in and plus that the thing that
cemented by is I talked about earlierwas the door she shuts this door that
she has trouble. It's not inits hinges, right, she's in the

(01:49:39):
house alone. I don't know whyshe's shutting the door, but I think
this symbolized her being in that tubeabout the tube, the whatever she was
in the glass thong, and Ithink when she was drowning, she wanted
to get out, she couldn't getout. I think she dies in the
tube. I think it's all ahoax. They killed her and what we're

(01:49:59):
seeing is her what she you know, she died alone. So she's in
the loan in Australia, in themiddle of nowhere, right, and her
different name. What was what wasMatt and her doing at the end?
They were giving a false obituary,right, uh huh? All right,
So I think this is just herway, what she dreamed. You know,
she didn't see her Oh, Ididn't see my kids. I I

(01:50:20):
saw, but I she she wouldn'tgo see her kids. She would all
her kids. She wouldn't go upto her kids. But it wouldn't be
a little awkward, right because they'vethey've now like lived without her. They
were they were happy. So Ijust said, Okay, I'm just gonna
go back. I'm just gonna goback. Why would you why even bother
going back? I think she realizedthat they moved on. She okay,

(01:50:41):
they moved on, but why bothergoing back? Go go anywhere, go
live, Go to Australia in themiddle of well, well you're you're there
with You don't want to be foundby anybody. You don't be found by
Kevin or anybody. You don't wantto be found by anybody. Well,
how here's the thought. Go wherethere's just two percent of the population left
and go in the middle of Australiawhere the middle of nowhere, no one's
gonna ever see your ride your bike. Because maybe Sublue she did she did

(01:51:05):
want to reconnect with because I thinkonce she realized she didn't belong there,
maybe she also realized that what shehad with Kevin was what she should have
done to me. But I think, I think, I think she did
die in the machine, and everythingwe're seeing is her story that she just
wanted to be loved again and itwas curage after her falling in love with

(01:51:25):
Kevin again and they both that's it. Yeah, Well the question is is
it the afterlife or is it herit's her life, it's her afterlife,
it's whatever she wanted it to be. So that's why she's able to tell
the story because and she doesn't lie, She's not lying. This is what
she this is what she believes happening. And that's what I think that she
did die in the machine, becauseI don't think the machine is real.

(01:51:47):
I don't think you can charge twentythousand dollars and to be worthwhile they give
you, they give you the charge. We're in a hurry, so we
can only give you a quick walkthrough on this thing. I think the
charges just for the person, likemaybe what they can afford, because I
think what what's his name from thePerfect Stranger said plus perfect Strangers? This

(01:52:11):
this dude, he's he's a conartist. He faked he remember, he
faked his own departure. That's true. He did the first time but again
it shows what people do and whatfalse narratives they might create in order to
satisfy something missing inside of them.Ironically enough, the bright side of living
in the world in which ninety eightpercent of the world apart is if markland

(01:52:33):
Breaker did make the crossover, therewould be a perfect Stranger's revival, so
he would be entertaining. There yougo, it's true. No, but
but my theory is that she diddie and then we're seeing her what she
wanted out of life, and shewanted to be and she wanted to be
loved because everything points to like said, the main thing was the door,

(01:52:55):
her trying to get out with thewater or the door. They weren't hitting
us over the head with it.But like I said, I could be
wrong, but I you know,it's what I believe happened. Well,
Jack title to believe what you believe, and that is my crackpot theory and
it cannot be proven wrong, andI'm sticking to it. Yeah, I
think it can be, Like Ican, I can poke how could be
proven wrong because like it's just that'sit just doesn't make it does make sense.

(01:53:20):
She she died in the thing,and why would she like then why
have like all this exposition, likewhy would you say that she's dead,
Like why does it have like Idon't know, be cool, you can
be, because that's not how theyended the show. They ended it with
like exactly, So if they wantedto end it with her dying, they
would have just made her die.But no, no, that's no,
that's not what they were doing.They were doing it. This is this

(01:53:41):
is the ending. You decide whateveryou want to decide. Yeah, I'm
sort of being glad to agree withJack here and that, Like again we
have to ask the question of doesit matter. The fact is this this
woman, no matter what she mightbe spinning, whether or not you tell
me truth, whether or not shemay be alive, she found happiness at
the end of it. That's allthat matters from the creator's perspective. Everything
else is just fancy window dressing.And and that's what Kevin and nor were

(01:54:05):
both looking for happiness, and atthe end they got it. Whether it
was her dying or whatever, itdoesn't matter. That's what And that's what
I think most of the viewers wanted. They wanted they wanted a happy ending,
and they got it. Where thereyou go to your point check.
I guess it's still open to interpretation. I feel it's a very intense interpretation,

(01:54:29):
but I just you know, Ijust like I said, I haven't
heard a wrong theory yet on it, because anybody could be right. They're
all dead. They're dead, thewhole thing. That's that's that's what Damon
will learn from the from Lost.Don't answer it, just put it out
there and just let people decide.Which what's in a show like this where

(01:54:50):
you can't you know, you're dealingwith science fiction and stuff like that,
and you know, yet sci fimixed in it. It's I think it's
good to do that where you justput it out there and let people.
Okay, that's cool. I likeit. All right. Well there you
go Jack's last crackpot theory and areyou sticking to it? I? Oh,
it's it's it's it's nailed down,all right. Okay, Well,

(01:55:12):
not my bike and pedaling across Australiaas we speak. Well, that will
wrap up this season of The Leftovers. J Jackomike and series podcast series The
Leftovers J JACKO Miike. There mightbe one more episode we've talked about.
We'd be doing another Leftovers ultra castwith some of the other Leftovers podcasters.
Nothing's in the works are nailed instone yet, but I could see us

(01:55:33):
doing that in the future. Butas it is, this is the last
normal episode of this podcast. Firstoff, I want to thank Mike for
joining us this season. It wasan absolute joy to have you with us
this season. The pleasure was allmine. Guys. I still geek out
every time I get to hop onthe mic with you about the fact that
you, guys who I've listened totalk about loss for hours upon hours.

(01:55:57):
The fact that I get to talkwith you guys weekly and become friends with
you and get to, you know, visit you in your home, which
really sounds creepy and predati. That'snot. It's honestly a complete, complete,
positive surprise, such a joy.Thank you so much for having me
on. This has been such anamazing show to get to talk out,
even albeit for the last season,from my perspective, and I'm I'm looking

(01:56:19):
forward to what's next. Yes.Uh? Speaking of what's next, Uh,
Jay, Jack and Mike will continue. I guess they're talking about the
Marvel will reappear. Of course,with West World season two. We don't
have a start date. We're kindof maybe guessing maybe it'll fill in the
Leftovers time slot with maybe April nextyear. We'll see they have they even

(01:56:41):
started filming west World yet, Idon't now, Well they start, didn't
they have to? Didn't have toredo something? Yeah? They Yeah,
because they had They said that someonecorrectly predicted on the red a plot line
for an episode of west World seasontwo, so they had to redo it.
Not sure if they're in the shootingstage, but they were at least
in the writing stage. But itmakes sense considering that this Game of Thrones
last couple of seasons are split upinto many seasons, it would make sense

(01:57:03):
to sort of keep it in theJuly uh time slot. So then,
yeah, as you said, youneed something to fill the spring. If
it won't be west World, therewill be some burgeoning new HBO ship that
is going to send out into thewaters. UM. So definitely have Jane
Jack, Jay Jack and Mike forwest World. Uh. The Jay Jack
or Mike crew is also looking atdoing a new podcast UM for Battle Star

(01:57:28):
Galactica kind of in the off seasonUM for our podcast looking at the FALLUM.
More details to come. We canwe can, we just say if
if people are like, oh,well, you guys voted for it.
You didn't know, but you votedfor it. No, it wasn't uh,
because Mike has never seen it before. Um, and I think it

(01:57:49):
does tie in well with the typeof shows that the Jay, Jack and
Mike crew have talked about. I'mactually interested to hear what he has to
say about it, because I loveit. I think it's a great show.
Yeah, curious what you have tosay. Yeah, And I think
that again, we were sort oflooking ahead to other shows currently on TV
and we felt like nothing really atleast for the next couple months kind of

(01:58:12):
scratch that itch of these really headymaybe alluding to some bigger mysteries types of
shows, and so we thought,would it be interesting to sort of go
back in the vein of the somewhathiatus based loss free watch you guys are
doing look back at a previous show. We're coming at it from Jeffer Engles.
As Jack mentioned, I have neverseen it. I have no idea

(01:58:34):
what. I know that there arecylons, and I know that Edward James
almost plays a character, but thatis all I know. So I think
it'll be exciting to get some newperspectives on it, and you know,
we'll see what happens with it.But I'm excited to have any sort of
excuse to hop on with you guysand talk about anything, let alone to
check out a sci fi show thatI have been dying to watch for the
past few years. I concur withall of those statements and agree wholeheartedly.

(01:58:59):
So excited to do that. Sobe on the lookout for that U premier
date TBD, but definitely we'll postthe first episode on our Leftovers in West
World feed, so you'll get itthere and then you'll have an official feed
for that new podcast. And wehad we had to go back and rerecord
it because someone on Reddit predicted ourfirst um. So with that, we

(01:59:23):
want to thank to be able tomake our show possible. The patrons o
patreont dot com slash Jane Jack,especially Attack from Tokyo, Eckhart Richter,
and Molly the Millennial. If you'dlike to become a patron, you can
do so go to Jane Jack dotcom click only become a patron link today
as Jack reference. If you needto build your own machine to go into
the alternate dimension where the two percentwent to you can do by buying those

(01:59:47):
parts on Amazon. And if youdo buy stuff on Amazon, you can
use the link Jay and Jack dotcom slash Amazon. Everything you buy in
there, a small percentage will goto the Jay and Jack production old,
so thank you for that again.All of these podcasts are listeners supported,
so thank you for your guys support, whether you're a patron, whether you
buy stuff on Amazon and use thatlink, or whether you send an emails,

(02:00:10):
or whether you just download and listento the show. This podcast,
all the podcasts that we do,would not be possible, So thank you
so much to our listeners, andthank you to Damon for once again giving
us years of content to podcasts aboutI feel like we owe that guy a
beer or two, so that willdo it. Any final thoughts, gentlemen,

(02:00:38):
I would say, also, youknow, while this podcast maybe departing,
there's still plenty of stuff left onthe Jane Jack Network as well,
including the newly rebranded Ramble Cast.We've got the broadcast. Jeremiah pat Horse
and I are just finishing up thelast few episodes of Fargo, which I'm
so excited to watch even more CarrieCoon on my screen and Norah Durst might

(02:01:00):
not longer if for those that aredepressed that you still have Carrie Coon action
that you can get through the exactlyand she's and I will not spoil anything,
but she seems to really be gettingin on the action, which is
super exciting. And if i'll makeone more plug, Um, if you
are a fan of Survivor, firstof all, subscribe to Survivor with Jay,

(02:01:20):
Jack and Colleen. But also asof this fall, I will be
joining the Survivor Press junket. I'llbe doing Survivor Exit Press for Survivor thirty
five, Heroes Versus Healers Versus Hustlersand moving Forward for Parade Magazine. I'm
very excited but very nervous about thisopportunity. I'm super grateful to be able

(02:01:41):
to talk about one of my favoriteshows in a larger capacity. So yeah,
be sure to check that out.Exciting. So that's awesome, that'd
be that'd be really good. Um, your your podcasts, a Survivor podcast
that you do with Rob or someof my favorites as well as being a
podcast historian. UM, so veryexcited that you're taking that on. Thank

(02:02:02):
you, It's good stuff and gratum, next thing, you know,
you will be the next Josh.Your name will be mentioned on a finale
episode of I Know that. That'sa new metric for me to I guess.
I don't know if I can achievethat, but I'll aim for like
getting my name like you know,coughed at accidentally on a camera crew.

(02:02:25):
No, I gotta Ethan is actuallycontestant and he says, yeah, I
didn't like this one guy. Yeah, Mike or no, you just get
like Debbie. You need just getDebbie like some type of gig at Parade
and then she'll mention you. It'sthat's that's the I remember when I worked
for Parade Magazine and uh did allthese podcasts and you know, stuff like
that. I did it better thananybody else. But that's okay. Well,

(02:02:50):
still a great stuff, exciting stuff, and and looking forward to it.
Um and then Game of Thrones withJay, Jack and Nicholl be coming
back this summer around Comic Con time. So yeah, exciting. I hope
we have another panel for this year. Try to get Mike out, but
it's it's unfortunately, it is apain in the neck to get out there
and get on the pane. Now, maybe next year Mike can join.

(02:03:13):
I'll start pedaling my bike across thecountry now, hopefully get there by next
July. All right, hearing yourpigeons or doves or whatever was behind you,
Well that'll do it. Thank youagain everybody, until next time,
Asta luego and goodbye, bye,bye bye