May 8, 2017 • 55 mins
Jay, Jack and Mike are live in Raleigh during the Jay + Jack Podcast Hangout Weekend for a special edition of the show! This week, they talk about episode 3.4, “G’Day Melbourne.” Join their Facebook page at www.facebook.com/groups/jayandjackgroup. Become a Jay and Jack Patron! Check out their Patreon page for more information at www.patreon.com/jayandjack. Subscribe […]
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Herry and welcome to the Live Leftoverswith Jay, Jack and Mike. My
name is Jay, my name isMike, and I'm you can see her
And welcome to the show. Helloeverybody out there in internet land and our
live studio audience. Spoiler alert forthose of you that are not in the
room more than two percent of theaudience that was here this weekend. Question
(00:28):
we happened with that photo of theyesterday with the tribute? Um? But
wow, what a what an episode? What a it answered every question?
What? What? What a betterI don't even have an audience in than
something that's both so confusing but alsoso emotionally abusive at the same Yeah,
(00:52):
on it together? What? Um? Yeah? So after last week's episode,
we're wandering in the desert with KevinSenior. Um where Kevin gets it
from? Yeah, we have Noraand and Kevin Junior arriving in Austria and
really following these two different storylines,and um, it's just it's at the
(01:17):
end of season two. I's justeverything's wrapped up so neatly with a bow
and now things have just seems unraveledso extremely Um, like, where like
where does it go from? Here? Is fourth episodes, so they were
at basically midpoint, and not tomention, I don't want to spoil too
much about the next times on becauseI know people are about that of two
(01:38):
after like the next like thirty seconds, including in the room if you don't
want to hear. But it seemslike we're getting another Matt centric episodes sort
of like that we have to havea last episode. I don't know if
we're getting any more Kevin and Nora, um, I mean, it sucks.
It sucks that it seems like they'rereally on the ropes. That being
said, when they were arguing,I can kind of understands, uh,
you know, the rationale of eachof them had and that you know,
(01:59):
it's it's seems like they are sosupremely screwed up, each of them from
an individual capacity, but make themkind of for each other. But that
said, it's just such a shake. Well they've they've always been screwed up,
Yeah, but at least like theywere like co pathetic relatively. But
you know, it's clear that fromyou know, her leaving him and the
stuffability that we didn't see its coludedlike there are very taught strings that are
(02:20):
being broken over the course of thisreally seemed to be that that one strawler
from the Candel's back and Kevin neverFred game the walking him up on this
exactly, and I feel like thatwas like really like, well, it's
like it's been in relationships with anybybefore, like when you start bringing up,
you know, the stuff that's happenedbefore, they at least to a
good fight, and this one wasprobably one of the acting is so good.
(02:43):
Yeah, I mean, I haveto see them together, but you
know, and they she she broughtit up I think in the first of
the hotel on the plane and shesaid, you know, I'll just tell
them that we're in a toxic,independent relationship and I needed to end it.
And I was like, oh,she kind of hit the nail on
the head there, don't do directly. I think Kevin kind of felt it.
It's like, well, she didn'tthink she was probably coming back to
seeing me of course. Yeah,she thought she would answer the question right,
(03:07):
Yeah, Well I don't know,because I mean, let's let's break
this down then. I mean,so we find out in the beginning of
this episode that apparently told Kevin isthat like she wants to bust this stick,
right, she wants to go downunder, to get down under the
process of it and to figure outlike, yeah, I'm gonna bust them
for what they are. But Imean, from her reaction to the interview,
do you think she was actually doingthat or even have just a ruse
to sort of actually is why?I mean the you can maybe stay up
(03:32):
to a certain point, but shewas so determined to do it, and
then when she didn't get to moveforward and then a breakdown, you hadn't
Ken's a good cop. You know, what are you smuggling? What are
you you know? What are yougoing here? Yeah? I don't know.
I might draw line in a goodcops. Remember he's the guy who
couldn't come up with a freaking booktitle off the top of come on,
(03:52):
you do with criminals and liars inyour everyday life? You could come assassins.
He's the very also got headbutted.Yeah he just saw someone you know
he thought was dead. Yeah,So I think we need so let's let's
(04:16):
dig into kind of Nora's story herein this episode. So she she definitely
wanted to depart or go or where, um, But there is still this
level of just not giving a crapeven when she answered the question about the
cancer baby, which which I'm gonnaYeah, I guess that one. Last
(04:39):
night last week the self immolating guyfound in the middle of the outback.
He said, you know that Ianswered this question and I answered it wrong,
So decides to kill himself and tweranother. That was the question on
the interview. But interesting they bothanswered different answered differently. That guy said
he wouldn't do it, she saidshe would, and they were both wrong.
(05:00):
Maybe it's like the Kabayashi Mareau.Like's not like it's a it's an
inherently broken system. You have tolike game. Maybe there's like a Maybe
it's the way she answered very coldone. You really want to see your
kids and your this cold? Yeah, but why why would that? Why
would that? You know, theygate you for being able to go?
(05:23):
I don't know, because I mean, how many people say that have gone
through nineteen o nineteen? What's hisname of Perfect Striker l MLB. So
you obviously knew the answer. Um, oh yeah, answered it right?
Huh uh I know what the answeranswer? Right? Um? Yeah?
(05:51):
Maybe maybe it is depend on onthe gender. I didn't even think about
that. Um, but that wouldbe interesting. That would be interesting if
that was the I mean that operationas well. I mean they might as
well have been like a sting operationbecause there was There's so many weird things
operating in this are culminating in thisone moment where she gets the question wrong.
They just like get up and walkout to the car and just drive
(06:14):
away. Could you imagine if likewould see a job interview earlier on be
Could you imagine like going to ajob interview and they're like, okay,
great, well we'll be in touch. They just stand up, walk out
of the office, just top onthe bus and drive away like such a
weird exit strategy. My problem withthe whole that whole scene, that would
the whole place they were at.I go, Kevin would have loved that
place. Everyone. I'm like VinLove all right, now are you going
(06:41):
that Bart Kevin? Never's that weirdthat they had all those garment mans?
Yeah. You have to wonder,like, why would the things covered in
plants, especially the machine, ifthe machine was there, I guess you're
trying to create control sterilzing. Thatwould make sense. Why do you have
closing where they departed? Maybe it'sjust an old ware house and they just
don't want to take the time.My first thought was the f was like
(07:04):
I don't know. This was thetwo doctors will like something out of like
X Machina, Right, they werelike two like prim and proper Dutch sticky
woman who we adventure on them andthey're playing eighty songs on the piano and
they're just like, you can definitelyget go. This is gonna get very
very strange, like nor almost undergoesthis like astronaut like training. Ye,
(07:25):
so like sensory deprivation or immersion therapyin that regard where they're like put her
in that box. They're like,this is what's gonna be like those pillsand
the pilspand the panaches on they dissolvein water. Exactly my first thought.
Um, but yeah, it's justit's it's Ah's take on me. This
(07:48):
is the theme of this or theyone of the big music themes in this
episode. Um, we're gonna havean eighty song from Journey for Kevin Don't
Stop Believing almost apostles, right,because we we had the Patty messily seeing
never Gonna give You Up? Yes, yes, I mean I think take
(08:09):
on Me. You know the keylyric is I'll be gone in a day
or two. That's right. Yeah, so so take on me, so
be with me now because I'll begone. So yeah, exactly what I
seen in the airport where Kevin shegoes u the lady checking him in and
she said you can't go with her, and he remember he wanted she was
she had to go on her own. Yeah, yeah, because that was
(08:31):
your My theory from a couple weeksago, right, is that you felt
like there was gonna be a situationwhere one of them would move on and
one of them would not. Right, he can't go to where That's why
they're asking for Kevin or so Imean we're really talking out journey songs.
Maybe separate Ways would have been there. You go for the for them right
now. Um, but but yeah, it's just it's just a very interesting
sequence of em and you're right,like them leaving like that was very cold,
(08:54):
especially they know her situation, butmaybe like she was so cold they
felt they could just kind of belike there was also like a weird good
cup and bad cup that was Edenand Becker. Yeah. Maybe, I
guess I'm assuming that David Loft abig fan of you, know ted dancing,
that was that was horror. Heyarc Is, first he wasn't um
(09:20):
but yeah, but it seemed like, you know, again this and this
might be a complete ruse. Butwhen Nora asked, you know it,
tries to talk to them about it, Eating says like, oh, I
didn't go because I have everything here. And Becker is definitely playing like the
bad cop role, like, ohthe odds are not in my favor somewhere.
Yeah, So I'm not entirely sureif she's being facetious or not,
or like if that was just beingher up yeah exactly to sort of engage
(09:43):
her reaction upon things. Yeah,that's a good point to Yeah, yeah,
I know that's that's a that's agood car because um and because even
we are saying the baby was atest, like the baby the best stop
um and and isn't that great thing? You just you leave your child with
a perfect ringer? Oh my god, perfect strangers. We must take good
(10:09):
time to more now all four mainCatherine the perfect Yes, yeah, all
the pardon so um wow uh soyeah, I thought the show was gonna
what they bring that show back fora while or an epode or something.
I mean, it was part likethe coach saga when they're bringing back eighties
that cooms. Yeah, but Iknow the reason they did reunite. It
took some pictures they did, Yes, they did. Yeah, I'm seeing
(10:31):
on the facebooks. I see iton the feed. You know. It's
the perfect Strangers where you know,come on computer thing, Yeah, Facebook
thing, you check out this stuff. Um, but not to go to
Inside Baseball with it, because DamiLindroth clearly doesn't really want to get too
far into the whole departure thing.But you know the fact that they seemed
pretty sure that this is going tosend you to wherever all people win is
(10:54):
wherever they went in an actual placeyou can actually survive and live is a
whole another question. If this showends with the people departed going to some
sort of alien utopia, I wouldI'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
eat it. I will eat ahat. Will you eat the hat that
you are on the West World?That's how good, cowboy. I don't
(11:18):
know how long they departed. Ohgod, I want to say, like
the remember her they were young sevenyears later, would they remember? Oh
man? That would be the doubledown. Lily didn't remember her and then
she goes I meet her kids inthis alien utopia and they seven years a
long time and if your kids areyoung, yeah yeah, you go a
week and your kids go I don'tknow, yeah, um but uh but
(11:41):
yeah, so I would agree though, like that's probably about as much as
we really I would prefer we getinto wherever they did the part, because
they don't want that. I feelagain, I know we've had situations before.
We're creators. Might might not havegone against the words in the beginning,
but I'm pretty sure Linda Love inprooda from the beginning I said like,
we're not gonna talk about what happen. Yeah, it's it's always about
(12:01):
the leftovers, people who got leftbehind. It. I feel like if
you're betraying the shows um thematic fiberif they say like, oh yeah,
this is what happened, like that'sthat's not what point show. Yeah you
know, but last the last seasonit fairly unhappy note right right? Yeah?
How is you got four episodes left? You see Nora where she is,
(12:22):
Kevin Junior where he's at, everyone'sa mess. How could this possibly
end? Unhappy? Note? Ithink I don't know it Does it end?
Unhappy. Note, Well, I'mjust saying that I think I still
think it is. I know,I keep going back to this carry Coon
interview where she keeps saying like it'sall gonna be, Everyone's gonna be satisfied
with it. I feel like,but it's being satisfied right then being happy
(12:43):
happy? I get, Well,I think just being happy mean being together.
True. I mean that that wasa famous episode today too, like
you know, leaving the family andnot being a part of that and and
kind of I don't see that's anywaythey end up together. M Well,
I don't need them together. Heleft me at a burning hotel. The
relationship has never seen like you know, right, they've just kind of been
(13:07):
this. They both they both kindof fed up people, and they just
kind of like co exists with theirlike you can't I remember boys outside of
Miracle Texas. So I mean it'sit's a possibility. Um. And then
you know, for Nora coming outof that, going back to the hotel,
having this huge fight with Kevin,and really the last image of the
(13:30):
episode is, you know, afterKevin's burned the book and the waters pouring
down, it's just really kind ofcool shot, which um, where does
where does Nora go from here?Well, and and Kevin's left to them
Ken's money and she put down Iguess they didn't put down the money down
the money bag. Yeah, theydidn't take try to give the money herself.
(13:56):
Again, apparently she's into that,but I feel I personally feel like,
I don't know. I think there'sa nice comparison between you know,
we talked in that second episode aboutthat one shot of Nora in the hotel
in a white robe smoking, andI'm not gonna say that the GRS coming
back. I think it's very clearthat it's not. But I think there
are I think there are are thematicconnections with this idea of like feeling that
(14:20):
the world has abandoned you and sortof taking this horrid attitude towards the world.
In this final shot of her smoking, Yeah, I feel like it's
pertinent somehow. I feel like Idon't think she's gonna up and join the
gr but I feel like we mightsee Nora sort of adopt that attitude.
Well, where we were going tofigure out what it was the first episode
where we had older Nora to Sarah. Yeah, because again, now she's
(14:41):
in the place but is that Nora? Well, and and yeah, we
don't know for sure. Now wouldmake sense if you know what Kevin,
she would probably say no, yeah, does that? Um? And there's
also a bit of the U wethought we saw Evy and it wasn't really
Evie and time I say it wasit was, it was pretty much confirmed
(15:01):
it wasn't. I don't know.Should we should we get to Kevin's storyline,
Well, we'll kind of dig intothat. But um, for Nora
the end, the last thing thatwe saw and really kind of where does
she go from here? The parilback to the Kevin Senior episode where the
guy kills himself. Yeah, andso we can kind of see why that
(15:22):
guy did it because we saw likehow poorly they treated Nora and just kind
of walked away. And that's justkind of just like where do I go?
Where I do from here? ThatI was going towards this thing and
now it's not going to happen.Um, and you know, will will
she Well, we know that shedoesn't kill herself if that is her at
the end, people branch of rememberhow they treated remember how they treated the
people that departed? We have alistener, Uh, I actually agree with
(15:48):
what Jack's point of view, likecould this be the whole like leaving it
like, oh, there is noreal answer. They just always like lead
them abandoned the world like some wayto mess Yeah, because nobody actually goes
for paying them always. Yeah,yeah, that's a good point. That's
one. And they just leave becausethey're they're cold and yeah yeah it doesn't
(16:15):
matter, like their whole point isjust leave you feeling the first season where
they had they made the rep ofall the people and stuff like that.
Yeah, and they sit up andsmoke. Maybe this is maybe this is
the gr maybe yeah yeah, yeah, or change or they changed their tactics
or you know whatever, or maybewould just not being the JR. Somebody
else that's trying to do something similaror trying to f with people. I
(16:37):
mean they don't even take the money. I mean it could go a lot
of different ways. Oh no,this we're good. Oh mccal uh so
this is a twelve year age Scotchsingle barrel uh account? Um Oh anyway?
(17:07):
Uh so, uh no, that'sit's that's a really good column.
I think that's that's a good possiblethere used to say that every single not
to talk for the last ten minutesof our podcast. Um uh yeah,
I think that's I think that's justwhat it is. I think that they're
just messing with it. Could bewill we get that answer there? Will
(17:30):
we get that answer? I thinkwe will because like you said, you
guys don't think that we're gonna seeproduct where they went. They said,
they're not explain where where the peopledeparted from. So I think they're just
messing. I mean they as Theproblem here is just like narratively speaking,
we're running out of runway fast exactly. You know, we're we're we're all
(17:52):
in the freaking Ajira plane valley.Frank Lapidis is trying to get us off
that crumbling runway, and we onlyhave so much we can really talk about.
It's it's a good point. There'sonly four episodes that and it seems
like it's only gonna get hairer thefurther it goes with the scenes we've seen
from the next episode. So saythat, you know, it's even crazier.
(18:12):
And then we have like three episodesleft, so we're gonna be like
two hour episodes the last couple ofones just to get all this stuff,
and that needs to happen hopefully.I mean they did with The West World,
right, the West World. Yeah, it was like an hour and
a half. Yeah, yeah,that's true. I have a whole other
season, the season after that seasonfour episodes, yea, four episodes,
and yeah, I know it'll beit'll be very interesting to see. Um,
(18:34):
maybe Nora go ahead. Maybe wellmaybe Nora she finds out that it's
all you know, she's she juststays in Australia for the rest of her
life. Well, I don't shechanges especially. It seems like we're also
there was some sort of explosion.Yea. At first I thought explosion.
(18:55):
I thought that I don't know,there was like a gas leak in the
room or something. Yeah, likeNora had died. But it seems like
there was some sort of big explosionsomewhere in Australia, so much so that
grounded all the flights. Yeah,god knows what that had a bad home.
I think we're gonna find that out. Yeah, I don't know who
might be responsible for it. Idon't think Kevin Senior. Yeah, that's
the only person I could think.That was my theory. Can we say
(19:18):
it's fairly random that Kevin Senior wasin the Good Morning Melbourne thing because he's
act like well known, like ifhe goes missing, they would care that
he went missing. I want tomake maybe because his name is Kevin killed,
he killed? What's his name?Oh, Christopher Sunday. Yeah,
so but with then why would theywant to even talk about him? It's
(19:38):
like, oh, they're quite lookingfor maybe I should. Can we talking
about Good Dame of Melbourne to allour Australian listeners out there? Like correctly
what we're making. But yeah,let's let's shift here to Kevin st in
(20:03):
the Good Morning uh Melbourne. Yeah, yeah, I think the Australians have
loved the slour. It's not Melbourne. It's it's like if you're, if
you're, it's not Louisville. It'sLouisville. Yeah, Louis I think the
guy I took to Toronto too.It becomes like Toronto, Toronto, Toronto,
Toronto. And the more the moreexecutionary you are with it, like
the further you are away from Torontoseas okay, but yes, but um,
(20:30):
but yeah, I think it wasjust I mean just think it was
a weird. I mean the episoderight, and it was so but it
was so interesting because like, whatI love about the show is that it
deals with perspective so much that like, we were really along with Kevin for
them right right for the first halfof that episode when we from like we're
I mean, we had an audiablereaction in the crowd when we first saw
(20:51):
ev and I think at least whenI thought as first was like, oh,
she's using the television sort of likewhat guards did in international assassins to
communicate with them. So that turnedout not to be the case. Let's
over a completely coincidental we'll talk aboutwhether or not he actually was projected.
What it did mean, I wassharp to written down, but what does
she have what she's showing on thepaper? I couldn't. Um, it
was something Yeah, it was Yeah. It was like but Vin and the
(21:18):
TV off, which that was justgreat. The whole sequence, um,
you know, wanting to turn theTV off and trying to turn the TV
off, and then because even beforewe started the show we had our own
little TV issues where it kept wantingto switch between the different HDMI um so
(21:38):
um. But but yeah, itwas just it was kind of trippy,
trippy. It didn't even seem real. The show but it was um because
Kevin Senior saw him go on tothe thing, you know. But uh,
but yeah, so ev ev showsup unexpectedly and um, and they
(21:59):
kind of goes on this this wildgoose chase the finder but it ends up
well, Jack still thinks it's Evy, but it ends up as far as
we see, it wasn't Evy.And Kevin is kind of losing it again.
Yeah, it seems like he Yeah, it seems like he was chasing
after her. We have so manyproblems being brought it in this life show.
Richard Grego is not the part it. Unlike most of our audience,
(22:22):
he's still here. The only Eiestelevision star to still remain universe is gone.
Death Is Death was like one ofthe first ones that, Um,
I think that it's It's tough because, I mean, we really, for
(22:45):
the length of this season have notreally been going back to proberative terms,
back to the well of what Kevinwent through with Pattie, and now it
seemed like, I mean, it'svery pertinent the passage he was reading in
the Book of Kevin right, ittalked about that incident exactly. So I
think it's he has it on theforefront of his mind, and he can
really snap at any precipice. Youknow that story. No, I think
(23:10):
he's so Max put it together fromh John, Michael, Michael, Um.
And well, so he's kind ofgetting He's taken accounts from everybody else.
I think Michael has a lot ofyou know because even Kencon he told
him about what, you know,the hotel, So you know he's he's
getting it from a lot of differentaccounts, not just from sold him.
(23:33):
Yeah. I mean I think,uh, you know, when Lori's gonna
psychoanalyze a little bit of Jesus thisepisode, I think she like tells him
like you want to escape? Yeah, And I think that No, no
matter what you may think about thiswhole situation, I think that is fairly
true. I think, yeah,yeah, I think that he does.
We told we talked about it evena couple of episodes ago, like why
the hell is he doing this?But yeah, when the big anniversary is
(23:56):
coming up? Um, But Ithink that, yeah, there is something
inherent there in that, like heI think he seeks escape because I think
he is so it's it's about what'sunspoken, and I feel like what's unspoken
with Kevin is that he is soafraid of this happening. Yeah. Again,
And so the reason why he's soadded about what he sees Evy and
chases after her is not because Johnnyis my friend. Yeah, that's really
(24:19):
not the right. The reason isbecause I fear I'm going crazy agains seeing
dead people. Yeah, yeah,absolutely, And in her calling it out,
Um, you know, I thinkshe's I think she's great. What
she does. I actually handled itreally well. Um. Yeah, you
need to we need to imagine aswell. Again if we're going under the
circumstances. Yeah, like this isnot Evy, This is so poor.
Yeah. Random woman getting accosted bysomeone grabbing you and telling you you're what
(24:44):
they say your name is. Yeah, and I give that person GRETI don't
caring about caring about this random version. You know that for all she knows,
could probably like kill her any umuh, you know actually going through
and trying to you know, helpyou know, Yeah, I said he's
he is ill. Um. Whatwas good good for her was a good
detective. She found his book,her phone number like that. Yeah.
(25:07):
The only resource pections that was seenhe used so far are Google and Facebook.
Ye. If you need to becomea PI. It's just really you
have a laptop and in that connection, you're good to go. I don't
know. I mean it wasn't namedDaria Dahlia. I mean she herball picture
was not existent person. No it'snot it, yeah, which I think
(25:29):
was part of the kind of keepingthat mystery there. So there was the
review that it wasn't really her.Yeah, um, which that that's been
used a lot of times in media. Jack you said you knew that was
going to happen. Well, yeah, once he said another center the picture
and they didn't look at it.Yeah, it's obviously that's what it was.
But you but you still think it'sevy. So why yeah, why
(25:52):
do we trust Lorie? She wasa grd? What's going on with this
place? We haven't been given noreason not to trust her since she's yes,
why she's giving people false hope?She's not she's hoping people move on?
Yeah, well then, but let'sgo back then. I don't think
we can really, I don't thinkthis is a true to reality show concerning
(26:17):
that we have a main character whohas died twice so far and has coming
back to life. But I meanwe talked about this In the first episode
she got newt You know, howhow does one escape that and be able
to do that? You know,I thought for a second when it might
have been eavy, that there mighthave been like some sort of odd like
like in Heroes spoiler aler for HeroesAlie Larder and her various amounts of characters.
(26:44):
Right, there was like Nikki slashJess kind of they died and there
was this girl Tracy, and likemaybe there's a weird coincidence where this two
people look exactly alike doppelganger. Yeah, but again that would be kind of
weird. I mean it's the sameperson. Yeah, but yeah, I
think there was a bomb shelter shegot underneath. There's just no way,
like you saw in the reflection inthe glasses, like right in her face.
(27:08):
All right, we'll see. Sounless it was I don't know,
don't I don't trust Laurie though,never Um, what did you think it
was? So what did you thinkabout Laurie this episode? Because this is
this is the most prominent we seeLaurie well this entire probably like she found
the number of the girl. Sheshe said, don't go search out this
(27:29):
girl again because Yeah, because checkout the number this girl she she talked
to this girl convinced her to tellKevin that, Yeah, you know,
and I do stop buying it.Stop buying it. What's going on over
here while I'm talking at me?Curious? Now? Okay, tut Tracy's
(27:53):
got cool ice powers. We did. We were this close to an f
you, Laurie. I was like, I wanted it, so he was
there. It just it rolls outthere were enough in this episode you could
have added one more. Yeah,they're at least thirty or forty. Yeah.
Jesus Christ Superstar. Oh that wasthat. That was I mean,
(28:14):
as a musical theater fan, thatwas fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, um,
let's see what what else from fromKevin here? He leaves a lot.
He doesn't he doesn't panic, Hejust but he's just so confused and
he wants to believe everything. Yeah. I thought it was a great acting.
I just that was tremendous acting.And I just I want to believe.
(28:37):
I want to believe that he's seeingwhat he's seeing. Yeah, that's
I think I think we all do. But I think that's sort of the
problem as well. Right, Yeah, because an international session he was seeing.
Wasn't he seeing wasn't he seeing Patty? Well? Yeah, because he
sees like gone onto the spirit worldor wherever he is. Um. Yeah,
(29:00):
I just think it's tough because Ithink he's a it's the main character
that we've put so much behind.Ye, it's like it's mister Robot,
right, it's that we It's acharacter that we wholeheartedly support and follow for
so long. At the same time, he has so many heron flaws,
But it's really tough on paper tofollowing him. Yeah, is is Kevin
Kevin? Why? Why makes Kevingo crazy? Now? If we're gonna
(29:25):
have a happy ending, happy tobe happy? If Kevin going So that's
why I'm saying again that I don'tthink. I don't think a happy ending
involves them getting him back together.Now, I'm not saying back together.
I'm saying with Kevin, I thinka happy ending could involve Kevin killing himself
or sacrificing himself for the better.Yeah. Really, well, Matt's Matt's
(29:48):
going there next week? Well heis, but why would he? Why
would he kill Kevin? He's ajudas, that's right. Lastly, I
know a minute, but didn't killedJesus. He just didn't, you know,
stand up for it. No,No, he didn't. He he
led them to him. But he'sphysically killed and what But the question is,
(30:10):
I mean, you just got aboutfifty pieces of silver when he getting
Matt could get something some sort oflike I don't know, another copy of
this book maybe, but see like, but would Matt do it intentionally?
Mars that's right, that's rights tothe Judas theory unless like, uh,
kind of what we saw in thisepisode. Uh, Max, I guess
(30:30):
is not what it should be.I talked about it in the first episode.
I think matt is so concentrated inhis faith that I think he has
the capacity to really go overboard becausehe's driven by it, and I think
he's able to do that. Ithink he's able to he has a propensity
to be able to do that,especially if you know, if he's like,
oh, it's for the betterment ofhe could totally pull a grace play
(30:53):
for it and be like, oh, yeah, Kevin, you're just gonna
go over to the other side andsave us all because Matthew has lost his
wife. Yeah, and Kevin's biologicalshow. That's that's not that's what that's
that's other crack poth theory is thatKevin is the biological father who whoa whoa?
(31:14):
She was coming in outs coming out. No, that's horrible. What
why would that's that would be?I mean, I guess that would be
if you're saying that kills Kevin.Also say to Kevin sees different people.
Maybe he saw someone else, butMary woke and he happened to be there
and he saw it was someone else. Do you think next I don't want
im gonna want to get too muchinto next episodes, but do you think
(31:37):
next episode we're going to get informationabout because I think we talked before about
like, oh, there's gonna bea mad episode. We'll see like what
happened beforehand. Do you think we'regonna get more stuff about like exactly what
led to him and Mary? Wegot a little bit about of it in
episode three, but like there hasto be more, Like she said she
wasn't he wasn't wanting her to goout of a miracle, right, Yeah,
yeah, I think there's more toit. Well, I mean,
(31:59):
but you're so obsessed about like likeI can see why she would want to
leave, right if if he's beinglike a crazy man is like so passionate,
but she was she was like,you know, unconscious, so she
didn't experience any of that. Soit's like one of those things where like
when when your parents go like Ichanged your diapers and rob blah blah,
(32:19):
and I made sure you kept alive, but you're like a baby, don't
remember that stuff. And then youbecome an ungrateful teenager. You're alive.
I mean that's what I'm saying.Like, you know, when you when
you're at the ungrateful teenager stage,you don't remember when the your parents like
to take care of you and likehelped you, you know, survive into
becoming a teenager. Um, soshe for her, she doesn't she doesn't
remember anything that Matt did. It'sall she all she did. Yeah,
(32:42):
wells her probably issue. I wasjust went to sleep, woke up like
my, my, my, mytheories like Jack just wanted one more clean
the gutters there. I think he'sjust like all right, I'll just put
smash two characters together. You knowwhat I'm gonna I think my my theory
is that Grace play for and KevinSenior or cleaning the gutters. Doesn't it
seem like that. When he pulledup with the car, He's like,
this is Grace and You're like,oh, this is like your mom type
(33:05):
of thing. Okay, did younotice first words the Kevin Senior said to
Kevin Junior Jesus. That's right.And apparently, according to a faithful listener,
Chris Nora also said that to Kevinwhen when she when he came to
the hotel for that last scene.Oh did he Apparently the first thing that
she said to him when he walkedin was Jesus, probably because of his
(33:28):
face, oh, because he isyeah, yeah, nice, nice little
uh call outs there. So forfor Kevin, you know a lot of
what's happened him up to this point, he's in this book with Kevin.
Um is what's happening now in Australia? Is this in him seeing Evie?
Is this gonna be something that's inthe book of Kevin? Or is it
is anything gonna be Kevin? Becauseit seems like both copies one has been
(33:51):
burned in the hotel sink, theother has been left behind in the middle
of the Australian outfect stands one pageexactly, So like that book is out
there. We didn't see it getdestroyed. So we have to assume that
that book has been taken up andpeople are reading it, Like the Grace
only had one page that she foundand she read and she like kills this
cop because of like how powerful.So like if he just threw at the
(34:15):
top of the of the trash cam, yeah, somebody just picks it up
and raise it. Maybe that's youknow, they've already started this, this
going on running running away with thisreligion. Um, And so yeah,
I don't I don't think that surethe original copy has been burned, but
that that Kevin Senior's copy I thinkis out there and who knows what people
(34:37):
are gonna be doing with it.I don't know. I feel like it
has to be right because I feellike that's too important of a prop to
not be a part of the showinherently. Yeah, we don't they have
it on a backup drive on acomputer or something like that. No,
he only had the one handering copyand this the xerox copy. Yeah,
and he gave the man the initialVangus script to Senior for the editing.
(34:59):
Yeah, and then think that gotleft behind. What was what's his name
being on the computer? Michael Ithink recently. I mean, I think
we don't know for sure. Wedon't know for sure checking up on a
sister, like maybe he was lookingat looking at Dahlia yes Facebook until the
(35:23):
audience quiet. They were talking duringthe whole show. This is like,
we're good day of Melbourne and thesepeople behind like building up side from us.
We disappear in the seven year anniversary. You guys are going to regret
the wasted I think by the way, the live audience is getting routing and
(35:47):
I'm to take care of were aboutbad cruising anyway, speaking of ye,
speaking of Kevin Norley, let's talkabout that that fight. Let's talk about
did you notice what book ended?So they had the first hotel scene they
had the last one appended there wasthis like opera music. I am and
(36:08):
in the moment, I can't tellexactly what it was from, but I
feel like a book ended in reallynicely. And you know opera's all about
putting music to essentially conflict. Yeah, yeah, true, And so it
showed from the beginning that there wassomething of brewing. We've talked about what
that airport scene earlier, where youknow, it seemed like they were inherently
separated, and she was going herown way, and he was like,
(36:29):
what are you doing? Where canyou take me with? Yeah? Yeah,
so it seemed like she definitely didn'twant to be around him. No,
yeah, I mean it's definitely seemeddisconnected, and I thought everything is.
I think he still was like longingfor whatever his idea of that raceship
was. And I think, youknow, Laurie actually kind of help or
at least clicked for him that actually, maybe this isn't a healthy relationship,
(36:50):
but maybe maybe I'm seeing Evie becauseI'm in this almost maybe this toxic relationship
with this person that probably isn't thebest person for me. Well. I
think he also when he initially soughtout Nora, I think he was kind
of looking for a caretaker, especiallywhen we when we talk about the Patti
stuff, and when I think,you know, again, the first little
lynchpin in this relationship was this momentwhen he told her about Patty and she
(37:13):
left. Yeah, I think hewas sort of showing in that moment he
was sort of realizing like, oh, she's not a caretaker, She's just
a person. Uh. And Ithink then he's realizing, like that's maybe
not what I want a relationship.So I think I think he needs a
mother or than he needs a lover. Yea, yeah, and he's one
more stop in the bathroom. Wellbut even then it's just like they don't
(37:37):
talk. They just kind of gointo the sexy times. Um and uh
it's not healthy. Yeah, no, uh the drunk audience is giving you
and uh but uh so we haveum that last scene where not only did
(38:01):
he burn the Book of Kevin,I think he burned that relationship. Yeah,
there's there's no coming back, atleast if I was Nora. There's
no coming back from like saying,you know, you just want the attention
and yeah, you just want himselflast week, yeah, you know,
being an hotel that was burning.Yeah, yeah, definitely is the connection.
(38:22):
And I think just served like somethingrepresentative about fire as well, because
yes, it is very burning andvery scarring, but I think you will
also find fire cleansing. Yeah,yeah, I think there are implications behind
that. And so there's some peoplethat feel like, you know, maybe
the relitionship has burned, they'll beable to move on. But yeah,
I think, you know, hedefinitely started crossing the line, but he
hit that point when he said,you know your children are gone, you
(38:44):
might as well be gone too,And you're like, oh, there was
no coming back. This is whenyou realize you checked the network logo in
the corner. Wonder if you're watchinglike a Jerry Spring. Yeah, yeah,
he didn't put up the fire.Yeah, he took Louis to both
heads? Yeah? Who was?Who was the was Kevin? Who's who?
(39:06):
Who? Dug deeper? Well?I think maybe like Nora not really
connecting with him and not really youknow, just wasn't Yeah, and kind
of it may just led to thatpoint, but I think Kevin's that Kevin
knew what she actually came here for. Would you have acted that way?
(39:30):
But I think he knew it,Like where else would we say you need
to go to them? I thinkhe knew it, but did he know
it? She wasn't very honest withhim. I don't know she was honest,
but I think he knew what areyou smuggling? I think he knew
it, but he didn't want tolike admit that he knew it. That
that you know, when when sheleft, like I think he knew that
maybe he wouldn't see her again.And I think like going into the argument
(39:52):
itself. Again, I think thatKevin absolutely like crossed that line when he
made that sament. Yeah, Ithink Norah's from her side. I think
she was bringing up long jec theresented feelings when she's talking about like,
oh, you know, we finda little bit more about this lily thing
that you she feels like he wascomplicit and not really telling her to keep
the child. And then he bringsup that scene where he said like,
(40:14):
oh, I want to have anotherbaby. She laughed in his face.
Yeah, So I think that,like, I can understand where noras come.
I can understand where both of themare coming from. I feel like
Nora was coming from a place ofI don't know, the genuine emotion of
resulting in the past, whereas Kevinjust like, oh he dug and real
hard with that. Well, he'she's still angry from we talked about earlier
being handcuffed and yeah, you openedup to her the handcufter to It's it's
(40:37):
a it's a class. I mean, it happens on you know, a
lot of dispartmoship sometimes where there's nocommunication. So they're not talking through any
of these issues that they've been havingthat's that's his main crip. His argument
is that we don't effing talk.Yeah, exactly, and so um,
you know, and when Lorie Brookeleft him, she didn't talk. Yeah,
(40:58):
so I think you need to talkher mother. Kevin Garvey's game right
now, talk a lot, sobalance, balance, everything in balance.
But that's actually Laurie didn't talk,So maybe he just needs that, you
know. He's Yeah. I feellike even and even before she left,
and we see that one the Garvesat their best, like she, it
(41:20):
feels like they were still sort ofnot really talking to each other, sort
of went off into their things.We even saw glimpses of it in the
first episode where Nora's like, hey, good morning and we get on my
bike and go somewhere. Yeah,and He's like okay bye. Yeah,
Like they both have secrets, butthere's just no communication there. So that's
why I'm saying that, like maybethis, maybe this isn't sort of my
(41:42):
branded hot take of the podcast asper usual. I think they're better apart.
Yeah, I think they're about ourimport I think that is as much
as I love Carry Coon, asmuch as I love Justin Throw. Yeah,
I think that I think that thecharacters, I mean as far as
acting, as far as acting,and I've been rooting for them to get
together since the first season, butnow looking at it, that's no way.
And that's why I think that wecan still have a happy ending in
(42:02):
having the characters be apart and sofulfill their personal fates whatever they may be.
I agree. Or never gonna findyour kids, I mean, well
we don't as the go to Glasonseventy, the alien civilization that they've all
found less the explosion about is someone? Is someone that did it? It's
(42:30):
someone we've we've seen before that soundsI hope it's not somebody that takes pull
out of the blue. So theexplosion is it is? Is it a
terrorist attack? Is it just anexperiment gone wrong? Could it be that
machine? Maybe the machine blow upbecause they try to do it to something,
they blow up this forget his name, it's perfect. Before he was
(42:52):
there, he was getting ready,he was getting I don't know. I
feel like I think it needs tobe significant. It could be. I
mean a lot of the gr tryingto do on the bridge, you know,
and they didn't actually blow up thebridge where they were trying to cause
that chaos. Maybe for going backto your idea of this like being some
(43:13):
sort of weird, guilty remnant fringeradicalist organization and maybe they tried to do
something. Why would they just goaway? They were so devoted, Yeah,
they were so devoted. Why wouldthey just go away? Yeah,
we have a listener a feedback herein the audience. So so when we
first saw answer my name is MattOkay where from that from Tokyo wow,
(43:40):
I flew. So the whole thingwhere like when they first saw them,
they were like playing the piano andshe had like this little compass thing in
her hand, one of the doctors. I thought that the machine was going
to be them playing on the pianoand then like being this like almost like
(44:00):
the device isn't scientific in a way, that it could be something that is
more like manufactured in a I know, I put out the theory that this
thing doesn't exist and they're just trollingpeople. But then I also have the
idea on the other hand that maybeit's something that's not The device isn't necessarily
like a big laser. I thinkI think the trolling is twenty thousand.
(44:22):
There's a lot of money, butit's not a lot of money. Yeah,
I mean it's just oh we gotfrom audience participation. It's good.
All right, So we have someartist for back here, Chris Drake.
Did you notice what was on evsign? No, what was on the
sign of the verse from the Koran? Huh that it says the sun is
(44:43):
shrouded in dark here? But thatis so just that. Um so it's
that the sun is shrouded in ourdarkness? Yeah. So so this again
goes back really so this this againgoes back to this idea though, like
(45:05):
if this was an entire projection,would the sign be part of it?
Or do you think this woman wouldhave been helping out that sign? And
if she was, could she beinvolved in some sort of aspect of it?
That just opens up a whole anothercan of worms, you know.
I think that verse is what shesang him in the library. Interesting.
Yeah, I was wondering, youknow what, doing it immediately afterwards?
(45:27):
We don't have the time to dothat research. But I wonder, like,
what was she saying in Arabic tohim? Yeah, because I mean
she does say she says, shesays, I have no compassion for you
because you are ill. I thinkit's what she said, but I didn't.
I wondered if that was a translationdirectly. Yeah, the same son
is shrouded in darkness and Kevin's notreally seen what's really there. Yeah,
(45:50):
if he's son, he could beThat's true. Yeah, exactly, So
this could be This could be Evan'sdark point if he's shrouded in darkness.
And I think the shroud was liftedafter he saw what Nora was up to,
because at the beginning he was alittle deluded by the fact that she
(46:10):
was trying to avoid him and escapehim. Yeah, and now she sees
what she was after the emotion ofbeing rejected by this machine or those doctors,
he sees her real intent was notto investigate them, but to participate.
Yeah, and now he knows shewants out, she wanted to be
with her kids. Yeah. Him. Interesting. Yeah, so he sort
(46:34):
of like sees the light exactly atthis point. So then the question would
be for we talked about what happennext with Kevin or with Nora. What
happens next with Kevin. We seehim get in this car with his dad,
and we talked the last episode aboutlike when Kevin says, you just
got the wrong Kevin to Grace.Did he mean himself? Did he mean
his son might seem like the laddernow? Yeah, it seems like he's
like, oh, even though again, now we have this, we had
(46:55):
this whole idea of like, thisis my story, Junior happens to be
in it, but like, Iwonder exactly what's next for Kevin Well,
And there was a bit of Kevinlike, yeah, we know each other.
There wasn't been excitement Kevin Senior likehe just gave I think this last
week he was he had the tape, he had the tape of young tap
(47:17):
of young Kevin, and then theyget ruined. Yeah. I think he
was listening with because he knew hehad to get his son was going to
die. And it wasn't that hewanted to keep his son. I don't
know. Maybe maybe that's in thebook he was reading it. We didn't
see when he's scratching it out.Interesting, So you think that maybe he
sort of changed his own mind andthat he like he's like, oh,
(47:37):
I realized that the son is alarger part of my story. I need
to I need to remember my son. You know. Maybe I don't know.
Interesting, I don't know, Ifeel like we didn't talk about this
last week, but I do feellike, um, I don't know,
there is something sort of constantly aboutthe tapes where like he maybe Senior felt
like he needed to be this ingrainshim on his mission, whatever that may
(47:59):
be. He was listening to thetapes. So now that the person's actually
in Australia, maybe this emboldened spiriteven further. So he said that the
tapes when he was he was rainingin his thing gets he gets his fighter
and the rain stuff. Yeah,that's what gave him the the what do
you have the dude to stop theflood? But uh, it just seems
(48:21):
weird that he was when he waslistening to everything though. So the question
is if and when Senior tells himlike, hey, this is what I
want to do. Do you thinkyou think Junior is gonna react to the
same when he reacts to Dean talkingabout the sandwich dogs. Yeah, I
think yeah it could be. It'sespecially for Kevin right now, um and
and burning and burning his his gospel. Um, I think Kevin Senior's gonna
(48:46):
be mad, don't he? Uh? Vin, he threw away his transfer,
but because he was off the storeremember me. So so is Kevin
less a believer now than than hewas? But it was he pissed.
That was he pissed to the storebecause he wants to be the woman could
sacrifice, not his son that couldbe. I think, yeah, whatever
(49:07):
whatever his you know songline you knowactions is um I mean, who knows?
Yes, I don't know. Itseems like we're just at a very
interesting juncture point yea with these twocharacters. I don't think only expected them
to go to Australia, that likethis they would diverge, yeah, so
quickly. But now that like itseems like for now we've got the whole
(49:28):
reactor plot wrapped up again for now, and then we've got you know,
Kevin's has now been spun this entirelydifferent yarm where it seems like things maybe
repeating themselves. Yeah, it doesopen the door as well. I know
we talked a little bit about like, um, you know ev I know
in the first episode we're like,oh, she's got to come back.
Do you think there's a chance thatwe get Live Tyler back in our screens
by the time the show is,I mean, could be mentioned it And
(49:52):
if so, do you think it'sa projection. Do you think do you
think Kevin would do exactly what happenedhere with av? It could be and
again, it could just be likea quick kind of glancing uh thing.
I don't know that I see.It's more just maybe something that's always that's
(50:16):
always like a weird pet peeve Ihave about just like fictional universes in general,
is like, Okay, if thischaracter, you know, if liv
Tyler plays Meg, then that meanslike, oh, does Lord of the
Rings exist? And if so,who plays r Rwin? Or does Armgetn't
exist? You know, because hecan't be fine unless I always have an
(50:36):
any situation where it's like, oh, someone who looks exactly like he's on
the two? Yeah, yeah,that's true. It's like you know what,
you actually look just like Luke Tyler. Um that yeah, that'd be
interesting because because it's true, likethings like Stranger Perfect Strangers, Yes exists,
Yeah that pop culture exists, sothen there pop culture should exists,
(50:58):
right, So but it's it's it'sjust it's just one of those things.
Um. All right, Well,I think that's kind of a good place
to wrap up our initial reactions.Any any any last spots here and then
we'll kind of pose that there's anyquestions from the audience, inject you you're
on a Yeah. So I thinkthat just to let all the listeners know
when we're talking about this pretty show. I think what we're planning to do
(51:21):
is for those do that we're followingus through the West World. But we
did doing the finale was that wedid sort of like a lie reaction showing
the leader on the week, wedid the proper recap, and then we
did the feedbacks. I think afterthis episode there's going to be a bunch
of it. We want to getpeople a chance to we need we need
to watch it, and we needto watch it again. We're gonna have
to watch that again. To theother yeah, popular view, We're gonna
have to watch that again. Ihave to watch acause there was someone talking
(51:42):
during the episode. Yeah exactly,they're still talking, still talking. But
but yes, we will give everya chance to give in their feedback.
So give us call it three fivethree or nine zero three once again at
three eight five three O nine zeroand or theory. He's also send an
email to Leftovers JJ at gmail dotcom, sens ath JJ app gmail,
(52:06):
dot com, also Journal, Facebook, Facebook dot com starts groups that's Jay
and Jack group. Want to thinkwe'll make our show possible. Our patrons
over at patreon dot com slash Jayand Jack Jay and Jack dot com.
If you go to that link,there will be a button there that says
become a patron today. We've hada lot of patrons here this weekend for
(52:27):
our Jay and Jack get together,which has been a lot of fun.
Absolutely, yeah, the audience,thank you for your patronage. Um and
thank you to all of our patrons, especially at Taka Tokyo, Molly the
Millennial and Millennial and Eckhartri Thor,thank you so much. Yeah, if
you want to, if you justbecome a two patron. We just did
(52:51):
our Aprils Choice yesterday. It wasa live show. It was a lot
j cost the guys Mary Man gameNow and if you want to see me
stumble for thirty seconds and legitimately thinkthat the great Salt Lake I tried to
help you out, I go infrustrate. It might be more of the
I know you know what I subdydoesn't even make them out less more through
(53:19):
there all over the country, allover the world. We got to it
eventually that yeah, it was amoderator. Moderator mister Tokyo. Yeah,
okay, you're in the United States. And then the audience was helping the
Yeah it was. It was Yeah, there's Mary Man versus broadcast was plus
me to turn out to definitely checkout, but we lost. But any
(53:47):
who, but again, thank youMike for coming down. We can person.
Thank you to all people that arehere in the live studio audience.
The yeah, it's the one who'snot drunk. We're talking like she was
drunk. You know, it's funnyshe moved further way she got her which
(54:09):
is the incredible plant. Um it'sit's the New York and um that's but
anyway, neither here nor there.We'll see you guys what we think Maybe
Wednesday, I'll figure it out.Okay, we'll find we'll find it and
then the check out all the othergreat stuff on Jay Jack Yes, Yes,
(54:30):
including Mike's Fantastic Parto podcast with JeremichCameros, lots of Kerry King,
Kara had a whole episode that's likeit was sensational. Jeremiah Herro Scott to
talk about it, so check thatalt as well as merry Man broadcast Survivor.
If you're a Survivor fan, briefplug. I got to do an
(54:51):
interview for Party magazine this past week. It was super cool, but the
latest eliminated Survivor cast away for someever got to do that. It was
really really all that's awesome if Ithink on your Twitter or we're oh,
yeah, you can find them.I posted on Twitter. Okay, I
forgot who was eliminated. We'll talkafter it. Yeah, I don't want
to spoil it, but maybe hehasn't seen it. It's not okay.
(55:13):
Yeah, AnyWho, We'll see youguys next time. Austin luego and goodbye
bye, goodbye
Herry and welcome to the Live Leftoverswith Jay, Jack and Mike. My
name is Jay, my name isMike, and I'm you can see her
And welcome to the show. Helloeverybody out there in internet land and our
live studio audience. Spoiler alert forthose of you that are not in the
room more than two percent of theaudience that was here this weekend. Question
(00:28):
we happened with that photo of theyesterday with the tribute? Um? But
wow, what a what an episode? What a it answered every question?
What? What? What a betterI don't even have an audience in than
something that's both so confusing but alsoso emotionally abusive at the same Yeah,
(00:52):
on it together? What? Um? Yeah? So after last week's episode,
we're wandering in the desert with KevinSenior. Um where Kevin gets it
from? Yeah, we have Noraand and Kevin Junior arriving in Austria and
really following these two different storylines,and um, it's just it's at the
(01:17):
end of season two. I's justeverything's wrapped up so neatly with a bow
and now things have just seems unraveledso extremely Um, like, where like
where does it go from? Here? Is fourth episodes, so they were
at basically midpoint, and not tomention, I don't want to spoil too
much about the next times on becauseI know people are about that of two
(01:38):
after like the next like thirty seconds, including in the room if you don't
want to hear. But it seemslike we're getting another Matt centric episodes sort
of like that we have to havea last episode. I don't know if
we're getting any more Kevin and Nora, um, I mean, it sucks.
It sucks that it seems like they'rereally on the ropes. That being
said, when they were arguing,I can kind of understands, uh,
you know, the rationale of eachof them had and that you know,
(01:59):
it's it's seems like they are sosupremely screwed up, each of them from
an individual capacity, but make themkind of for each other. But that
said, it's just such a shake. Well they've they've always been screwed up,
Yeah, but at least like theywere like co pathetic relatively. But
you know, it's clear that fromyou know, her leaving him and the
stuffability that we didn't see its coludedlike there are very taught strings that are
(02:20):
being broken over the course of thisreally seemed to be that that one strawler
from the Candel's back and Kevin neverFred game the walking him up on this
exactly, and I feel like thatwas like really like, well, it's
like it's been in relationships with anybybefore, like when you start bringing up,
you know, the stuff that's happenedbefore, they at least to a
good fight, and this one wasprobably one of the acting is so good.
(02:43):
Yeah, I mean, I haveto see them together, but you
know, and they she she broughtit up I think in the first of
the hotel on the plane and shesaid, you know, I'll just tell
them that we're in a toxic,independent relationship and I needed to end it.
And I was like, oh,she kind of hit the nail on
the head there, don't do directly. I think Kevin kind of felt it.
It's like, well, she didn'tthink she was probably coming back to
seeing me of course. Yeah,she thought she would answer the question right,
(03:07):
Yeah, Well I don't know,because I mean, let's let's break
this down then. I mean,so we find out in the beginning of
this episode that apparently told Kevin isthat like she wants to bust this stick,
right, she wants to go downunder, to get down under the
process of it and to figure outlike, yeah, I'm gonna bust them
for what they are. But Imean, from her reaction to the interview,
do you think she was actually doingthat or even have just a ruse
to sort of actually is why?I mean the you can maybe stay up
(03:32):
to a certain point, but shewas so determined to do it, and
then when she didn't get to moveforward and then a breakdown, you hadn't
Ken's a good cop. You know, what are you smuggling? What are
you you know? What are yougoing here? Yeah? I don't know.
I might draw line in a goodcops. Remember he's the guy who
couldn't come up with a freaking booktitle off the top of come on,
(03:52):
you do with criminals and liars inyour everyday life? You could come assassins.
He's the very also got headbutted.Yeah he just saw someone you know
he thought was dead. Yeah,So I think we need so let's let's
(04:16):
dig into kind of Nora's story herein this episode. So she she definitely
wanted to depart or go or where, um, But there is still this
level of just not giving a crapeven when she answered the question about the
cancer baby, which which I'm gonnaYeah, I guess that one. Last
(04:39):
night last week the self immolating guyfound in the middle of the outback.
He said, you know that Ianswered this question and I answered it wrong,
So decides to kill himself and tweranother. That was the question on
the interview. But interesting they bothanswered different answered differently. That guy said
he wouldn't do it, she saidshe would, and they were both wrong.
(05:00):
Maybe it's like the Kabayashi Mareau.Like's not like it's a it's an
inherently broken system. You have tolike game. Maybe there's like a Maybe
it's the way she answered very coldone. You really want to see your
kids and your this cold? Yeah, but why why would that? Why
would that? You know, theygate you for being able to go?
(05:23):
I don't know, because I mean, how many people say that have gone
through nineteen o nineteen? What's hisname of Perfect Striker l MLB. So
you obviously knew the answer. Um, oh yeah, answered it right?
Huh uh I know what the answeranswer? Right? Um? Yeah?
(05:51):
Maybe maybe it is depend on onthe gender. I didn't even think about
that. Um, but that wouldbe interesting. That would be interesting if
that was the I mean that operationas well. I mean they might as
well have been like a sting operationbecause there was There's so many weird things
operating in this are culminating in thisone moment where she gets the question wrong.
They just like get up and walkout to the car and just drive
(06:14):
away. Could you imagine if likewould see a job interview earlier on be
Could you imagine like going to ajob interview and they're like, okay,
great, well we'll be in touch. They just stand up, walk out
of the office, just top onthe bus and drive away like such a
weird exit strategy. My problem withthe whole that whole scene, that would
the whole place they were at.I go, Kevin would have loved that
place. Everyone. I'm like VinLove all right, now are you going
(06:41):
that Bart Kevin? Never's that weirdthat they had all those garment mans?
Yeah. You have to wonder,like, why would the things covered in
plants, especially the machine, ifthe machine was there, I guess you're
trying to create control sterilzing. Thatwould make sense. Why do you have
closing where they departed? Maybe it'sjust an old ware house and they just
don't want to take the time.My first thought was the f was like
(07:04):
I don't know. This was thetwo doctors will like something out of like
X Machina, Right, they werelike two like prim and proper Dutch sticky
woman who we adventure on them andthey're playing eighty songs on the piano and
they're just like, you can definitelyget go. This is gonna get very
very strange, like nor almost undergoesthis like astronaut like training. Ye,
(07:25):
so like sensory deprivation or immersion therapyin that regard where they're like put her
in that box. They're like,this is what's gonna be like those pillsand
the pilspand the panaches on they dissolvein water. Exactly my first thought.
Um, but yeah, it's justit's it's Ah's take on me. This
(07:48):
is the theme of this or theyone of the big music themes in this
episode. Um, we're gonna havean eighty song from Journey for Kevin Don't
Stop Believing almost apostles, right,because we we had the Patty messily seeing
never Gonna give You Up? Yes, yes, I mean I think take
(08:09):
on Me. You know the keylyric is I'll be gone in a day
or two. That's right. Yeah, so so take on me, so
be with me now because I'll begone. So yeah, exactly what I
seen in the airport where Kevin shegoes u the lady checking him in and
she said you can't go with her, and he remember he wanted she was
she had to go on her own. Yeah, yeah, because that was
(08:31):
your My theory from a couple weeksago, right, is that you felt
like there was gonna be a situationwhere one of them would move on and
one of them would not. Right, he can't go to where That's why
they're asking for Kevin or so Imean we're really talking out journey songs.
Maybe separate Ways would have been there. You go for the for them right
now. Um, but but yeah, it's just it's just a very interesting
sequence of em and you're right,like them leaving like that was very cold,
(08:54):
especially they know her situation, butmaybe like she was so cold they
felt they could just kind of belike there was also like a weird good
cup and bad cup that was Edenand Becker. Yeah. Maybe, I
guess I'm assuming that David Loft abig fan of you, know ted dancing,
that was that was horror. Heyarc Is, first he wasn't um
(09:20):
but yeah, but it seemed like, you know, again this and this
might be a complete ruse. Butwhen Nora asked, you know it,
tries to talk to them about it, Eating says like, oh, I
didn't go because I have everything here. And Becker is definitely playing like the
bad cop role, like, ohthe odds are not in my favor somewhere.
Yeah, So I'm not entirely sureif she's being facetious or not,
or like if that was just beingher up yeah exactly to sort of engage
(09:43):
her reaction upon things. Yeah,that's a good point to Yeah, yeah,
I know that's that's a that's agood car because um and because even
we are saying the baby was atest, like the baby the best stop
um and and isn't that great thing? You just you leave your child with
a perfect ringer? Oh my god, perfect strangers. We must take good
(10:09):
time to more now all four mainCatherine the perfect Yes, yeah, all
the pardon so um wow uh soyeah, I thought the show was gonna
what they bring that show back fora while or an epode or something.
I mean, it was part likethe coach saga when they're bringing back eighties
that cooms. Yeah, but Iknow the reason they did reunite. It
took some pictures they did, Yes, they did. Yeah, I'm seeing
(10:31):
on the facebooks. I see iton the feed. You know. It's
the perfect Strangers where you know,come on computer thing, Yeah, Facebook
thing, you check out this stuff. Um, but not to go to
Inside Baseball with it, because DamiLindroth clearly doesn't really want to get too
far into the whole departure thing.But you know the fact that they seemed
pretty sure that this is going tosend you to wherever all people win is
(10:54):
wherever they went in an actual placeyou can actually survive and live is a
whole another question. If this showends with the people departed going to some
sort of alien utopia, I wouldI'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
eat it. I will eat ahat. Will you eat the hat that
you are on the West World?That's how good, cowboy. I don't
(11:18):
know how long they departed. Ohgod, I want to say, like
the remember her they were young sevenyears later, would they remember? Oh
man? That would be the doubledown. Lily didn't remember her and then
she goes I meet her kids inthis alien utopia and they seven years a
long time and if your kids areyoung, yeah yeah, you go a
week and your kids go I don'tknow, yeah, um but uh but
(11:41):
yeah, so I would agree though, like that's probably about as much as
we really I would prefer we getinto wherever they did the part, because
they don't want that. I feelagain, I know we've had situations before.
We're creators. Might might not havegone against the words in the beginning,
but I'm pretty sure Linda Love inprooda from the beginning I said like,
we're not gonna talk about what happen. Yeah, it's it's always about
(12:01):
the leftovers, people who got leftbehind. It. I feel like if
you're betraying the shows um thematic fiberif they say like, oh yeah,
this is what happened, like that'sthat's not what point show. Yeah you
know, but last the last seasonit fairly unhappy note right right? Yeah?
How is you got four episodes left? You see Nora where she is,
(12:22):
Kevin Junior where he's at, everyone'sa mess. How could this possibly
end? Unhappy? Note? Ithink I don't know it Does it end?
Unhappy. Note, Well, I'mjust saying that I think I still
think it is. I know,I keep going back to this carry Coon
interview where she keeps saying like it'sall gonna be, Everyone's gonna be satisfied
with it. I feel like,but it's being satisfied right then being happy
(12:43):
happy? I get, Well,I think just being happy mean being together.
True. I mean that that wasa famous episode today too, like
you know, leaving the family andnot being a part of that and and
kind of I don't see that's anywaythey end up together. M Well,
I don't need them together. Heleft me at a burning hotel. The
relationship has never seen like you know, right, they've just kind of been
(13:07):
this. They both they both kindof fed up people, and they just
kind of like co exists with theirlike you can't I remember boys outside of
Miracle Texas. So I mean it'sit's a possibility. Um. And then
you know, for Nora coming outof that, going back to the hotel,
having this huge fight with Kevin,and really the last image of the
(13:30):
episode is, you know, afterKevin's burned the book and the waters pouring
down, it's just really kind ofcool shot, which um, where does
where does Nora go from here?Well, and and Kevin's left to them
Ken's money and she put down Iguess they didn't put down the money down
the money bag. Yeah, theydidn't take try to give the money herself.
(13:56):
Again, apparently she's into that,but I feel I personally feel like,
I don't know. I think there'sa nice comparison between you know,
we talked in that second episode aboutthat one shot of Nora in the hotel
in a white robe smoking, andI'm not gonna say that the GRS coming
back. I think it's very clearthat it's not. But I think there
are I think there are are thematicconnections with this idea of like feeling that
(14:20):
the world has abandoned you and sortof taking this horrid attitude towards the world.
In this final shot of her smoking, Yeah, I feel like it's
pertinent somehow. I feel like Idon't think she's gonna up and join the
gr but I feel like we mightsee Nora sort of adopt that attitude.
Well, where we were going tofigure out what it was the first episode
where we had older Nora to Sarah. Yeah, because again, now she's
(14:41):
in the place but is that Nora? Well, and and yeah, we
don't know for sure. Now wouldmake sense if you know what Kevin,
she would probably say no, yeah, does that? Um? And there's
also a bit of the U wethought we saw Evy and it wasn't really
Evie and time I say it wasit was, it was pretty much confirmed
(15:01):
it wasn't. I don't know.Should we should we get to Kevin's storyline,
Well, we'll kind of dig intothat. But um, for Nora
the end, the last thing thatwe saw and really kind of where does
she go from here? The parilback to the Kevin Senior episode where the
guy kills himself. Yeah, andso we can kind of see why that
(15:22):
guy did it because we saw likehow poorly they treated Nora and just kind
of walked away. And that's justkind of just like where do I go?
Where I do from here? ThatI was going towards this thing and
now it's not going to happen.Um, and you know, will will
she Well, we know that shedoesn't kill herself if that is her at
the end, people branch of rememberhow they treated remember how they treated the
people that departed? We have alistener, Uh, I actually agree with
(15:48):
what Jack's point of view, likecould this be the whole like leaving it
like, oh, there is noreal answer. They just always like lead
them abandoned the world like some wayto mess Yeah, because nobody actually goes
for paying them always. Yeah,yeah, that's a good point. That's
one. And they just leave becausethey're they're cold and yeah yeah it doesn't
(16:15):
matter, like their whole point isjust leave you feeling the first season where
they had they made the rep ofall the people and stuff like that.
Yeah, and they sit up andsmoke. Maybe this is maybe this is
the gr maybe yeah yeah, yeah, or change or they changed their tactics
or you know whatever, or maybewould just not being the JR. Somebody
else that's trying to do something similaror trying to f with people. I
(16:37):
mean they don't even take the money. I mean it could go a lot
of different ways. Oh no,this we're good. Oh mccal uh so
this is a twelve year age Scotchsingle barrel uh account? Um Oh anyway?
(17:07):
Uh so, uh no, that'sit's that's a really good column.
I think that's that's a good possiblethere used to say that every single not
to talk for the last ten minutesof our podcast. Um uh yeah,
I think that's I think that's justwhat it is. I think that they're
just messing with it. Could bewill we get that answer there? Will
(17:30):
we get that answer? I thinkwe will because like you said, you
guys don't think that we're gonna seeproduct where they went. They said,
they're not explain where where the peopledeparted from. So I think they're just
messing. I mean they as Theproblem here is just like narratively speaking,
we're running out of runway fast exactly. You know, we're we're we're all
(17:52):
in the freaking Ajira plane valley.Frank Lapidis is trying to get us off
that crumbling runway, and we onlyhave so much we can really talk about.
It's it's a good point. There'sonly four episodes that and it seems
like it's only gonna get hairer thefurther it goes with the scenes we've seen
from the next episode. So saythat, you know, it's even crazier.
(18:12):
And then we have like three episodesleft, so we're gonna be like
two hour episodes the last couple ofones just to get all this stuff,
and that needs to happen hopefully.I mean they did with The West World,
right, the West World. Yeah, it was like an hour and
a half. Yeah, yeah,that's true. I have a whole other
season, the season after that seasonfour episodes, yea, four episodes,
and yeah, I know it'll beit'll be very interesting to see. Um,
(18:34):
maybe Nora go ahead. Maybe wellmaybe Nora she finds out that it's
all you know, she's she juststays in Australia for the rest of her
life. Well, I don't shechanges especially. It seems like we're also
there was some sort of explosion.Yea. At first I thought explosion.
(18:55):
I thought that I don't know,there was like a gas leak in the
room or something. Yeah, likeNora had died. But it seems like
there was some sort of big explosionsomewhere in Australia, so much so that
grounded all the flights. Yeah,god knows what that had a bad home.
I think we're gonna find that out. Yeah, I don't know who
might be responsible for it. Idon't think Kevin Senior. Yeah, that's
the only person I could think.That was my theory. Can we say
(19:18):
it's fairly random that Kevin Senior wasin the Good Morning Melbourne thing because he's
act like well known, like ifhe goes missing, they would care that
he went missing. I want tomake maybe because his name is Kevin killed,
he killed? What's his name?Oh, Christopher Sunday. Yeah,
so but with then why would theywant to even talk about him? It's
(19:38):
like, oh, they're quite lookingfor maybe I should. Can we talking
about Good Dame of Melbourne to allour Australian listeners out there? Like correctly
what we're making. But yeah,let's let's shift here to Kevin st in
(20:03):
the Good Morning uh Melbourne. Yeah, yeah, I think the Australians have
loved the slour. It's not Melbourne. It's it's like if you're, if
you're, it's not Louisville. It'sLouisville. Yeah, Louis I think the
guy I took to Toronto too.It becomes like Toronto, Toronto, Toronto,
Toronto. And the more the moreexecutionary you are with it, like
the further you are away from Torontoseas okay, but yes, but um,
(20:30):
but yeah, I think it wasjust I mean just think it was
a weird. I mean the episoderight, and it was so but it
was so interesting because like, whatI love about the show is that it
deals with perspective so much that like, we were really along with Kevin for
them right right for the first halfof that episode when we from like we're
I mean, we had an audiablereaction in the crowd when we first saw
(20:51):
ev and I think at least whenI thought as first was like, oh,
she's using the television sort of likewhat guards did in international assassins to
communicate with them. So that turnedout not to be the case. Let's
over a completely coincidental we'll talk aboutwhether or not he actually was projected.
What it did mean, I wassharp to written down, but what does
she have what she's showing on thepaper? I couldn't. Um, it
was something Yeah, it was Yeah. It was like but Vin and the
(21:18):
TV off, which that was justgreat. The whole sequence, um,
you know, wanting to turn theTV off and trying to turn the TV
off, and then because even beforewe started the show we had our own
little TV issues where it kept wantingto switch between the different HDMI um so
(21:38):
um. But but yeah, itwas just it was kind of trippy,
trippy. It didn't even seem real. The show but it was um because
Kevin Senior saw him go on tothe thing, you know. But uh,
but yeah, so ev ev showsup unexpectedly and um, and they
(21:59):
kind of goes on this this wildgoose chase the finder but it ends up
well, Jack still thinks it's Evy, but it ends up as far as
we see, it wasn't Evy.And Kevin is kind of losing it again.
Yeah, it seems like he Yeah, it seems like he was chasing
after her. We have so manyproblems being brought it in this life show.
Richard Grego is not the part it. Unlike most of our audience,
(22:22):
he's still here. The only Eiestelevision star to still remain universe is gone.
Death Is Death was like one ofthe first ones that, Um,
I think that it's It's tough because, I mean, we really, for
(22:45):
the length of this season have notreally been going back to proberative terms,
back to the well of what Kevinwent through with Pattie, and now it
seemed like, I mean, it'svery pertinent the passage he was reading in
the Book of Kevin right, ittalked about that incident exactly. So I
think it's he has it on theforefront of his mind, and he can
really snap at any precipice. Youknow that story. No, I think
(23:10):
he's so Max put it together fromh John, Michael, Michael, Um.
And well, so he's kind ofgetting He's taken accounts from everybody else.
I think Michael has a lot ofyou know because even Kencon he told
him about what, you know,the hotel, So you know he's he's
getting it from a lot of differentaccounts, not just from sold him.
(23:33):
Yeah. I mean I think,uh, you know, when Lori's gonna
psychoanalyze a little bit of Jesus thisepisode, I think she like tells him
like you want to escape? Yeah, And I think that No, no
matter what you may think about thiswhole situation, I think that is fairly
true. I think, yeah,yeah, I think that he does.
We told we talked about it evena couple of episodes ago, like why
the hell is he doing this?But yeah, when the big anniversary is
(23:56):
coming up? Um, But Ithink that, yeah, there is something
inherent there in that, like heI think he seeks escape because I think
he is so it's it's about what'sunspoken, and I feel like what's unspoken
with Kevin is that he is soafraid of this happening. Yeah. Again,
And so the reason why he's soadded about what he sees Evy and
chases after her is not because Johnnyis my friend. Yeah, that's really
(24:19):
not the right. The reason isbecause I fear I'm going crazy agains seeing
dead people. Yeah, yeah,absolutely, And in her calling it out,
Um, you know, I thinkshe's I think she's great. What
she does. I actually handled itreally well. Um. Yeah, you
need to we need to imagine aswell. Again if we're going under the
circumstances. Yeah, like this isnot Evy, This is so poor.
Yeah. Random woman getting accosted bysomeone grabbing you and telling you you're what
(24:44):
they say your name is. Yeah, and I give that person GRETI don't
caring about caring about this random version. You know that for all she knows,
could probably like kill her any umuh, you know actually going through
and trying to you know, helpyou know, Yeah, I said he's
he is ill. Um. Whatwas good good for her was a good
detective. She found his book,her phone number like that. Yeah.
(25:07):
The only resource pections that was seenhe used so far are Google and Facebook.
Ye. If you need to becomea PI. It's just really you
have a laptop and in that connection, you're good to go. I don't
know. I mean it wasn't namedDaria Dahlia. I mean she herball picture
was not existent person. No it'snot it, yeah, which I think
(25:29):
was part of the kind of keepingthat mystery there. So there was the
review that it wasn't really her.Yeah, um, which that that's been
used a lot of times in media. Jack you said you knew that was
going to happen. Well, yeah, once he said another center the picture
and they didn't look at it.Yeah, it's obviously that's what it was.
But you but you still think it'sevy. So why yeah, why
(25:52):
do we trust Lorie? She wasa grd? What's going on with this
place? We haven't been given noreason not to trust her since she's yes,
why she's giving people false hope?She's not she's hoping people move on?
Yeah, well then, but let'sgo back then. I don't think
we can really, I don't thinkthis is a true to reality show concerning
(26:17):
that we have a main character whohas died twice so far and has coming
back to life. But I meanwe talked about this In the first episode
she got newt You know, howhow does one escape that and be able
to do that? You know,I thought for a second when it might
have been eavy, that there mighthave been like some sort of odd like
like in Heroes spoiler aler for HeroesAlie Larder and her various amounts of characters.
(26:44):
Right, there was like Nikki slashJess kind of they died and there
was this girl Tracy, and likemaybe there's a weird coincidence where this two
people look exactly alike doppelganger. Yeah, but again that would be kind of
weird. I mean it's the sameperson. Yeah, but yeah, I
think there was a bomb shelter shegot underneath. There's just no way,
like you saw in the reflection inthe glasses, like right in her face.
(27:08):
All right, we'll see. Sounless it was I don't know,
don't I don't trust Laurie though,never Um, what did you think it
was? So what did you thinkabout Laurie this episode? Because this is
this is the most prominent we seeLaurie well this entire probably like she found
the number of the girl. Sheshe said, don't go search out this
(27:29):
girl again because Yeah, because checkout the number this girl she she talked
to this girl convinced her to tellKevin that, Yeah, you know,
and I do stop buying it.Stop buying it. What's going on over
here while I'm talking at me?Curious? Now? Okay, tut Tracy's
(27:53):
got cool ice powers. We did. We were this close to an f
you, Laurie. I was like, I wanted it, so he was
there. It just it rolls outthere were enough in this episode you could
have added one more. Yeah,they're at least thirty or forty. Yeah.
Jesus Christ Superstar. Oh that wasthat. That was I mean,
(28:14):
as a musical theater fan, thatwas fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, um,
let's see what what else from fromKevin here? He leaves a lot.
He doesn't he doesn't panic, Hejust but he's just so confused and
he wants to believe everything. Yeah. I thought it was a great acting.
I just that was tremendous acting.And I just I want to believe.
(28:37):
I want to believe that he's seeingwhat he's seeing. Yeah, that's
I think I think we all do. But I think that's sort of the
problem as well. Right, Yeah, because an international session he was seeing.
Wasn't he seeing wasn't he seeing Patty? Well? Yeah, because he
sees like gone onto the spirit worldor wherever he is. Um. Yeah,
(29:00):
I just think it's tough because Ithink he's a it's the main character
that we've put so much behind.Ye, it's like it's mister Robot,
right, it's that we It's acharacter that we wholeheartedly support and follow for
so long. At the same time, he has so many heron flaws,
But it's really tough on paper tofollowing him. Yeah, is is Kevin
Kevin? Why? Why makes Kevingo crazy? Now? If we're gonna
(29:25):
have a happy ending, happy tobe happy? If Kevin going So that's
why I'm saying again that I don'tthink. I don't think a happy ending
involves them getting him back together.Now, I'm not saying back together.
I'm saying with Kevin, I thinka happy ending could involve Kevin killing himself
or sacrificing himself for the better.Yeah. Really, well, Matt's Matt's
(29:48):
going there next week? Well heis, but why would he? Why
would he kill Kevin? He's ajudas, that's right. Lastly, I
know a minute, but didn't killedJesus. He just didn't, you know,
stand up for it. No,No, he didn't. He he
led them to him. But he'sphysically killed and what But the question is,
(30:10):
I mean, you just got aboutfifty pieces of silver when he getting
Matt could get something some sort oflike I don't know, another copy of
this book maybe, but see like, but would Matt do it intentionally?
Mars that's right, that's rights tothe Judas theory unless like, uh,
kind of what we saw in thisepisode. Uh, Max, I guess
(30:30):
is not what it should be.I talked about it in the first episode.
I think matt is so concentrated inhis faith that I think he has
the capacity to really go overboard becausehe's driven by it, and I think
he's able to do that. Ithink he's able to he has a propensity
to be able to do that,especially if you know, if he's like,
oh, it's for the betterment ofhe could totally pull a grace play
(30:53):
for it and be like, oh, yeah, Kevin, you're just gonna
go over to the other side andsave us all because Matthew has lost his
wife. Yeah, and Kevin's biologicalshow. That's that's not that's what that's
that's other crack poth theory is thatKevin is the biological father who whoa whoa?
(31:14):
She was coming in outs coming out. No, that's horrible. What
why would that's that would be?I mean, I guess that would be
if you're saying that kills Kevin.Also say to Kevin sees different people.
Maybe he saw someone else, butMary woke and he happened to be there
and he saw it was someone else. Do you think next I don't want
im gonna want to get too muchinto next episodes, but do you think
(31:37):
next episode we're going to get informationabout because I think we talked before about
like, oh, there's gonna bea mad episode. We'll see like what
happened beforehand. Do you think we'regonna get more stuff about like exactly what
led to him and Mary? Wegot a little bit about of it in
episode three, but like there hasto be more, Like she said she
wasn't he wasn't wanting her to goout of a miracle, right, Yeah,
yeah, I think there's more toit. Well, I mean,
(31:59):
but you're so obsessed about like likeI can see why she would want to
leave, right if if he's beinglike a crazy man is like so passionate,
but she was she was like,you know, unconscious, so she
didn't experience any of that. Soit's like one of those things where like
when when your parents go like Ichanged your diapers and rob blah blah,
(32:19):
and I made sure you kept alive, but you're like a baby, don't
remember that stuff. And then youbecome an ungrateful teenager. You're alive.
I mean that's what I'm saying.Like, you know, when you when
you're at the ungrateful teenager stage,you don't remember when the your parents like
to take care of you and likehelped you, you know, survive into
becoming a teenager. Um, soshe for her, she doesn't she doesn't
remember anything that Matt did. It'sall she all she did. Yeah,
(32:42):
wells her probably issue. I wasjust went to sleep, woke up like
my, my, my, mytheories like Jack just wanted one more clean
the gutters there. I think he'sjust like all right, I'll just put
smash two characters together. You knowwhat I'm gonna I think my my theory
is that Grace play for and KevinSenior or cleaning the gutters. Doesn't it
seem like that. When he pulledup with the car, He's like,
this is Grace and You're like,oh, this is like your mom type
(33:05):
of thing. Okay, did younotice first words the Kevin Senior said to
Kevin Junior Jesus. That's right.And apparently, according to a faithful listener,
Chris Nora also said that to Kevinwhen when she when he came to
the hotel for that last scene.Oh did he Apparently the first thing that
she said to him when he walkedin was Jesus, probably because of his
(33:28):
face, oh, because he isyeah, yeah, nice, nice little
uh call outs there. So forfor Kevin, you know a lot of
what's happened him up to this point, he's in this book with Kevin.
Um is what's happening now in Australia? Is this in him seeing Evie?
Is this gonna be something that's inthe book of Kevin? Or is it
is anything gonna be Kevin? Becauseit seems like both copies one has been
(33:51):
burned in the hotel sink, theother has been left behind in the middle
of the Australian outfect stands one pageexactly, So like that book is out
there. We didn't see it getdestroyed. So we have to assume that
that book has been taken up andpeople are reading it, Like the Grace
only had one page that she foundand she read and she like kills this
cop because of like how powerful.So like if he just threw at the
(34:15):
top of the of the trash cam, yeah, somebody just picks it up
and raise it. Maybe that's youknow, they've already started this, this
going on running running away with thisreligion. Um, And so yeah,
I don't I don't think that surethe original copy has been burned, but
that that Kevin Senior's copy I thinkis out there and who knows what people
(34:37):
are gonna be doing with it.I don't know. I feel like it
has to be right because I feellike that's too important of a prop to
not be a part of the showinherently. Yeah, we don't they have
it on a backup drive on acomputer or something like that. No,
he only had the one handering copyand this the xerox copy. Yeah,
and he gave the man the initialVangus script to Senior for the editing.
(34:59):
Yeah, and then think that gotleft behind. What was what's his name
being on the computer? Michael Ithink recently. I mean, I think
we don't know for sure. Wedon't know for sure checking up on a
sister, like maybe he was lookingat looking at Dahlia yes Facebook until the
(35:23):
audience quiet. They were talking duringthe whole show. This is like,
we're good day of Melbourne and thesepeople behind like building up side from us.
We disappear in the seven year anniversary. You guys are going to regret
the wasted I think by the way, the live audience is getting routing and
(35:47):
I'm to take care of were aboutbad cruising anyway, speaking of ye,
speaking of Kevin Norley, let's talkabout that that fight. Let's talk about
did you notice what book ended?So they had the first hotel scene they
had the last one appended there wasthis like opera music. I am and
(36:08):
in the moment, I can't tellexactly what it was from, but I
feel like a book ended in reallynicely. And you know opera's all about
putting music to essentially conflict. Yeah, yeah, true, And so it
showed from the beginning that there wassomething of brewing. We've talked about what
that airport scene earlier, where youknow, it seemed like they were inherently
separated, and she was going herown way, and he was like,
(36:29):
what are you doing? Where canyou take me with? Yeah? Yeah,
so it seemed like she definitely didn'twant to be around him. No,
yeah, I mean it's definitely seemeddisconnected, and I thought everything is.
I think he still was like longingfor whatever his idea of that raceship
was. And I think, youknow, Laurie actually kind of help or
at least clicked for him that actually, maybe this isn't a healthy relationship,
(36:50):
but maybe maybe I'm seeing Evie becauseI'm in this almost maybe this toxic relationship
with this person that probably isn't thebest person for me. Well. I
think he also when he initially soughtout Nora, I think he was kind
of looking for a caretaker, especiallywhen we when we talk about the Patti
stuff, and when I think,you know, again, the first little
lynchpin in this relationship was this momentwhen he told her about Patty and she
(37:13):
left. Yeah, I think hewas sort of showing in that moment he
was sort of realizing like, oh, she's not a caretaker, She's just
a person. Uh. And Ithink then he's realizing, like that's maybe
not what I want a relationship.So I think I think he needs a
mother or than he needs a lover. Yea, yeah, and he's one
more stop in the bathroom. Wellbut even then it's just like they don't
(37:37):
talk. They just kind of gointo the sexy times. Um and uh
it's not healthy. Yeah, no, uh the drunk audience is giving you
and uh but uh so we haveum that last scene where not only did
(38:01):
he burn the Book of Kevin,I think he burned that relationship. Yeah,
there's there's no coming back, atleast if I was Nora. There's
no coming back from like saying,you know, you just want the attention
and yeah, you just want himselflast week, yeah, you know,
being an hotel that was burning.Yeah, yeah, definitely is the connection.
(38:22):
And I think just served like somethingrepresentative about fire as well, because
yes, it is very burning andvery scarring, but I think you will
also find fire cleansing. Yeah,yeah, I think there are implications behind
that. And so there's some peoplethat feel like, you know, maybe
the relitionship has burned, they'll beable to move on. But yeah,
I think, you know, hedefinitely started crossing the line, but he
hit that point when he said,you know your children are gone, you
(38:44):
might as well be gone too,And you're like, oh, there was
no coming back. This is whenyou realize you checked the network logo in
the corner. Wonder if you're watchinglike a Jerry Spring. Yeah, yeah,
he didn't put up the fire.Yeah, he took Louis to both
heads? Yeah? Who was?Who was the was Kevin? Who's who?
(39:06):
Who? Dug deeper? Well?I think maybe like Nora not really
connecting with him and not really youknow, just wasn't Yeah, and kind
of it may just led to thatpoint, but I think Kevin's that Kevin
knew what she actually came here for. Would you have acted that way?
(39:30):
But I think he knew it,Like where else would we say you need
to go to them? I thinkhe knew it, but did he know
it? She wasn't very honest withhim. I don't know she was honest,
but I think he knew what areyou smuggling? I think he knew
it, but he didn't want tolike admit that he knew it. That
that you know, when when sheleft, like I think he knew that
maybe he wouldn't see her again.And I think like going into the argument
(39:52):
itself. Again, I think thatKevin absolutely like crossed that line when he
made that sament. Yeah, Ithink Norah's from her side. I think
she was bringing up long jec theresented feelings when she's talking about like,
oh, you know, we finda little bit more about this lily thing
that you she feels like he wascomplicit and not really telling her to keep
the child. And then he bringsup that scene where he said like,
(40:14):
oh, I want to have anotherbaby. She laughed in his face.
Yeah, So I think that,like, I can understand where noras come.
I can understand where both of themare coming from. I feel like
Nora was coming from a place ofI don't know, the genuine emotion of
resulting in the past, whereas Kevinjust like, oh he dug and real
hard with that. Well, he'she's still angry from we talked about earlier
being handcuffed and yeah, you openedup to her the handcufter to It's it's
(40:37):
a it's a class. I mean, it happens on you know, a
lot of dispartmoship sometimes where there's nocommunication. So they're not talking through any
of these issues that they've been havingthat's that's his main crip. His argument
is that we don't effing talk.Yeah, exactly, and so um,
you know, and when Lorie Brookeleft him, she didn't talk. Yeah,
(40:58):
so I think you need to talkher mother. Kevin Garvey's game right
now, talk a lot, sobalance, balance, everything in balance.
But that's actually Laurie didn't talk,So maybe he just needs that, you
know. He's Yeah. I feellike even and even before she left,
and we see that one the Garvesat their best, like she, it
(41:20):
feels like they were still sort ofnot really talking to each other, sort
of went off into their things.We even saw glimpses of it in the
first episode where Nora's like, hey, good morning and we get on my
bike and go somewhere. Yeah,and He's like okay bye. Yeah,
Like they both have secrets, butthere's just no communication there. So that's
why I'm saying that, like maybethis, maybe this isn't sort of my
(41:42):
branded hot take of the podcast asper usual. I think they're better apart.
Yeah, I think they're about ourimport I think that is as much
as I love Carry Coon, asmuch as I love Justin Throw. Yeah,
I think that I think that thecharacters, I mean as far as
acting, as far as acting,and I've been rooting for them to get
together since the first season, butnow looking at it, that's no way.
And that's why I think that wecan still have a happy ending in
(42:02):
having the characters be apart and sofulfill their personal fates whatever they may be.
I agree. Or never gonna findyour kids, I mean, well
we don't as the go to Glasonseventy, the alien civilization that they've all
found less the explosion about is someone? Is someone that did it? It's
(42:30):
someone we've we've seen before that soundsI hope it's not somebody that takes pull
out of the blue. So theexplosion is it is? Is it a
terrorist attack? Is it just anexperiment gone wrong? Could it be that
machine? Maybe the machine blow upbecause they try to do it to something,
they blow up this forget his name, it's perfect. Before he was
(42:52):
there, he was getting ready,he was getting I don't know. I
feel like I think it needs tobe significant. It could be. I
mean a lot of the gr tryingto do on the bridge, you know,
and they didn't actually blow up thebridge where they were trying to cause
that chaos. Maybe for going backto your idea of this like being some
(43:13):
sort of weird, guilty remnant fringeradicalist organization and maybe they tried to do
something. Why would they just goaway? They were so devoted, Yeah,
they were so devoted. Why wouldthey just go away? Yeah,
we have a listener a feedback herein the audience. So so when we
first saw answer my name is MattOkay where from that from Tokyo wow,
(43:40):
I flew. So the whole thingwhere like when they first saw them,
they were like playing the piano andshe had like this little compass thing in
her hand, one of the doctors. I thought that the machine was going
to be them playing on the pianoand then like being this like almost like
(44:00):
the device isn't scientific in a way, that it could be something that is
more like manufactured in a I know, I put out the theory that this
thing doesn't exist and they're just trollingpeople. But then I also have the
idea on the other hand that maybeit's something that's not The device isn't necessarily
like a big laser. I thinkI think the trolling is twenty thousand.
(44:22):
There's a lot of money, butit's not a lot of money. Yeah,
I mean it's just oh we gotfrom audience participation. It's good.
All right, So we have someartist for back here, Chris Drake.
Did you notice what was on evsign? No, what was on the
sign of the verse from the Koran? Huh that it says the sun is
(44:43):
shrouded in dark here? But thatis so just that. Um so it's
that the sun is shrouded in ourdarkness? Yeah. So so this again
goes back really so this this againgoes back to this idea though, like
(45:05):
if this was an entire projection,would the sign be part of it?
Or do you think this woman wouldhave been helping out that sign? And
if she was, could she beinvolved in some sort of aspect of it?
That just opens up a whole anothercan of worms, you know.
I think that verse is what shesang him in the library. Interesting.
Yeah, I was wondering, youknow what, doing it immediately afterwards?
(45:27):
We don't have the time to dothat research. But I wonder, like,
what was she saying in Arabic tohim? Yeah, because I mean
she does say she says, shesays, I have no compassion for you
because you are ill. I thinkit's what she said, but I didn't.
I wondered if that was a translationdirectly. Yeah, the same son
is shrouded in darkness and Kevin's notreally seen what's really there. Yeah,
(45:50):
if he's son, he could beThat's true. Yeah, exactly, So
this could be This could be Evan'sdark point if he's shrouded in darkness.
And I think the shroud was liftedafter he saw what Nora was up to,
because at the beginning he was alittle deluded by the fact that she
(46:10):
was trying to avoid him and escapehim. Yeah, and now she sees
what she was after the emotion ofbeing rejected by this machine or those doctors,
he sees her real intent was notto investigate them, but to participate.
Yeah, and now he knows shewants out, she wanted to be
with her kids. Yeah. Him. Interesting. Yeah, so he sort
(46:34):
of like sees the light exactly atthis point. So then the question would
be for we talked about what happennext with Kevin or with Nora. What
happens next with Kevin. We seehim get in this car with his dad,
and we talked the last episode aboutlike when Kevin says, you just
got the wrong Kevin to Grace.Did he mean himself? Did he mean
his son might seem like the laddernow? Yeah, it seems like he's
like, oh, even though again, now we have this, we had
(46:55):
this whole idea of like, thisis my story, Junior happens to be
in it, but like, Iwonder exactly what's next for Kevin Well,
And there was a bit of Kevinlike, yeah, we know each other.
There wasn't been excitement Kevin Senior likehe just gave I think this last
week he was he had the tape, he had the tape of young tap
(47:17):
of young Kevin, and then theyget ruined. Yeah. I think he
was listening with because he knew hehad to get his son was going to
die. And it wasn't that hewanted to keep his son. I don't
know. Maybe maybe that's in thebook he was reading it. We didn't
see when he's scratching it out.Interesting, So you think that maybe he
sort of changed his own mind andthat he like he's like, oh,
(47:37):
I realized that the son is alarger part of my story. I need
to I need to remember my son. You know. Maybe I don't know.
Interesting, I don't know, Ifeel like we didn't talk about this
last week, but I do feellike, um, I don't know,
there is something sort of constantly aboutthe tapes where like he maybe Senior felt
like he needed to be this ingrainshim on his mission, whatever that may
(47:59):
be. He was listening to thetapes. So now that the person's actually
in Australia, maybe this emboldened spiriteven further. So he said that the
tapes when he was he was rainingin his thing gets he gets his fighter
and the rain stuff. Yeah,that's what gave him the the what do
you have the dude to stop theflood? But uh, it just seems
(48:21):
weird that he was when he waslistening to everything though. So the question
is if and when Senior tells himlike, hey, this is what I
want to do. Do you thinkyou think Junior is gonna react to the
same when he reacts to Dean talkingabout the sandwich dogs. Yeah, I
think yeah it could be. It'sespecially for Kevin right now, um and
and burning and burning his his gospel. Um, I think Kevin Senior's gonna
(48:46):
be mad, don't he? Uh? Vin, he threw away his transfer,
but because he was off the storeremember me. So so is Kevin
less a believer now than than hewas? But it was he pissed.
That was he pissed to the storebecause he wants to be the woman could
sacrifice, not his son that couldbe. I think, yeah, whatever
(49:07):
whatever his you know songline you knowactions is um I mean, who knows?
Yes, I don't know. Itseems like we're just at a very
interesting juncture point yea with these twocharacters. I don't think only expected them
to go to Australia, that likethis they would diverge, yeah, so
quickly. But now that like itseems like for now we've got the whole
(49:28):
reactor plot wrapped up again for now, and then we've got you know,
Kevin's has now been spun this entirelydifferent yarm where it seems like things maybe
repeating themselves. Yeah, it doesopen the door as well. I know
we talked a little bit about like, um, you know ev I know
in the first episode we're like,oh, she's got to come back.
Do you think there's a chance thatwe get Live Tyler back in our screens
by the time the show is,I mean, could be mentioned it And
(49:52):
if so, do you think it'sa projection. Do you think do you
think Kevin would do exactly what happenedhere with av? It could be and
again, it could just be likea quick kind of glancing uh thing.
I don't know that I see.It's more just maybe something that's always that's
(50:16):
always like a weird pet peeve Ihave about just like fictional universes in general,
is like, Okay, if thischaracter, you know, if liv
Tyler plays Meg, then that meanslike, oh, does Lord of the
Rings exist? And if so,who plays r Rwin? Or does Armgetn't
exist? You know, because hecan't be fine unless I always have an
(50:36):
any situation where it's like, oh, someone who looks exactly like he's on
the two? Yeah, yeah,that's true. It's like you know what,
you actually look just like Luke Tyler. Um that yeah, that'd be
interesting because because it's true, likethings like Stranger Perfect Strangers, Yes exists,
Yeah that pop culture exists, sothen there pop culture should exists,
(50:58):
right, So but it's it's it'sjust it's just one of those things.
Um. All right, Well,I think that's kind of a good place
to wrap up our initial reactions.Any any any last spots here and then
we'll kind of pose that there's anyquestions from the audience, inject you you're
on a Yeah. So I thinkthat just to let all the listeners know
when we're talking about this pretty show. I think what we're planning to do
(51:21):
is for those do that we're followingus through the West World. But we
did doing the finale was that wedid sort of like a lie reaction showing
the leader on the week, wedid the proper recap, and then we
did the feedbacks. I think afterthis episode there's going to be a bunch
of it. We want to getpeople a chance to we need we need
to watch it, and we needto watch it again. We're gonna have
to watch that again. To theother yeah, popular view, We're gonna
have to watch that again. Ihave to watch acause there was someone talking
(51:42):
during the episode. Yeah exactly,they're still talking, still talking. But
but yes, we will give everya chance to give in their feedback.
So give us call it three fivethree or nine zero three once again at
three eight five three O nine zeroand or theory. He's also send an
email to Leftovers JJ at gmail dotcom, sens ath JJ app gmail,
(52:06):
dot com, also Journal, Facebook, Facebook dot com starts groups that's Jay
and Jack group. Want to thinkwe'll make our show possible. Our patrons
over at patreon dot com slash Jayand Jack Jay and Jack dot com.
If you go to that link,there will be a button there that says
become a patron today. We've hada lot of patrons here this weekend for
(52:27):
our Jay and Jack get together,which has been a lot of fun.
Absolutely, yeah, the audience,thank you for your patronage. Um and
thank you to all of our patrons, especially at Taka Tokyo, Molly the
Millennial and Millennial and Eckhartri Thor,thank you so much. Yeah, if
you want to, if you justbecome a two patron. We just did
(52:51):
our Aprils Choice yesterday. It wasa live show. It was a lot
j cost the guys Mary Man gameNow and if you want to see me
stumble for thirty seconds and legitimately thinkthat the great Salt Lake I tried to
help you out, I go infrustrate. It might be more of the
I know you know what I subdydoesn't even make them out less more through
(53:19):
there all over the country, allover the world. We got to it
eventually that yeah, it was amoderator. Moderator mister Tokyo. Yeah,
okay, you're in the United States. And then the audience was helping the
Yeah it was. It was Yeah, there's Mary Man versus broadcast was plus
me to turn out to definitely checkout, but we lost. But any
(53:47):
who, but again, thank youMike for coming down. We can person.
Thank you to all people that arehere in the live studio audience.
The yeah, it's the one who'snot drunk. We're talking like she was
drunk. You know, it's funnyshe moved further way she got her which
(54:09):
is the incredible plant. Um it'sit's the New York and um that's but
anyway, neither here nor there.We'll see you guys what we think Maybe
Wednesday, I'll figure it out.Okay, we'll find we'll find it and
then the check out all the othergreat stuff on Jay Jack Yes, Yes,
(54:30):
including Mike's Fantastic Parto podcast with JeremichCameros, lots of Kerry King,
Kara had a whole episode that's likeit was sensational. Jeremiah Herro Scott to
talk about it, so check thatalt as well as merry Man broadcast Survivor.
If you're a Survivor fan, briefplug. I got to do an
(54:51):
interview for Party magazine this past week. It was super cool, but the
latest eliminated Survivor cast away for someever got to do that. It was
really really all that's awesome if Ithink on your Twitter or we're oh,
yeah, you can find them.I posted on Twitter. Okay, I
forgot who was eliminated. We'll talkafter it. Yeah, I don't want
to spoil it, but maybe hehasn't seen it. It's not okay.
(55:13):
Yeah, AnyWho, We'll see youguys next time. Austin luego and goodbye
bye, goodbye
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