The Leftovers with Jay, Jack + Mike: Ep. 3.01 "The Book of Kevin"

The Leftovers is back for its final season! Jay, Jack, and Mike talk about the Season 3 premiere, “The Book of Kevin.” Join their Facebook page at www.facebook.com/groups/jayandjackgroup. Become a Jay and Jack Patron! Check out their Patreon page for more information at www.patreon.com/jayandjack. Subscribe (MP3) l Become a Patron l Join Our Facebook Group

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
From Raleigh, North Carolina. It'sThe Leftovers with Jay and JM podcast dedicade
to HBOS The Leftovers. So sitback, relax, and enjoy the show.
Hello and welcome to Leftovers with Jay, Jack and Mike. My name
is Jay, my name is Mike, and I'm the woman nobody wanted.

(00:26):
Ah, and welcome to this show. How's it going, guys? Great?
But I'm not trying to be me, but really nobody wanted her?
Well, it's it's uh, weit's it's interesting because we had our kind
of preseason show last week that wasa patron's choice show and I think it's
on the Leftovers feed now. Andwe asked the question, you know,

(00:48):
will this season open up with someyou know, cave woman like opening?
Uh that season two opened with andnot quite cave man times but eighteen forty
four two. But thoughts on thisscene. There's been a lot of talk
about it connecting with the Great Disappointmentof eighteen forty four which led to the

(01:12):
Seventh Day Adventists. But thoughts withthis opening. Michael will start with you.
Yeah, I mean we do haveto, as you said, kind
of directly compare it to the waywe opened season two, which you could
try to throw the opening to seasonone in there. But season one was
I feel very modeled off of theoriginal source material. In season two is

(01:34):
really where they decided to spring outand sort of do their own thing.
So that's where it became a littlemore holistic, a little more mystical,
And it seems like in some looseconnections being made here, we might see
either the or the origin of theGuilty Remnant, or at least some sort
of resonance between the current Guilty Remnantand this, you know, this sect

(01:59):
that had has no name at leastin the show. I know, as
you said, it's it's been comparedbefore to Millerism. There's even more recently
in American history, the whole thewhole Herald camping rapture thing that happened in
May twenty eleven. So the interestingthing about this, as well as Millerism,
was I believe cultivated in upstate NewYork, which is where the first

(02:21):
season took place. But the directorof this episode, Mimi leader Ladare,
I'm not entirely sure it's her nameis like is like that that soap company,
It's it's your mileage? Maybe Averyon the way you decide to pronounce
it. But I believe she saidin an interview today that even though there
are milleristic tendencies in this group that'sbeing portrayed, it's in Australia, which

(02:47):
I'm sure we'll link into the finalscene. Maybe she just thought it was
a coincidence that they were portraying this, or they decided to actually displace it
and move it down to a countrythat's going to have a lot more prominence
later in the season, or sowe are to assume that being said,
taking out the external elements from it, I thought this is just a really
well done, like six minutes shortfilm. Uh. Just the soundtrack was

(03:09):
really interesting and having the only dollardialogue being spoken. Is this sort of
voice over talking about the great floodand heaven and Earth disappearing? Defin that
was written for the show? Oris that does that it's actually an existing
song being used. Yes, Ibelieve the song I Wish We'd All been
Ready has been a previously written song. I believe the Great American Idol winner

(03:31):
herself, Jordan Sparks, even putout a cover of it. So once
you've reached the Sparkster, you knowthat you really cross into the mainstream there,
the poisoned mainstream of American pop culturemusic. I'm called wait, I'm
calling it right now. How manyhow many leftover podcasts are there? A
lot of them? Not one ofthem, not another one will will quote

(03:54):
Jordan Sparks, you never know.I call it right now. Well,
actually, if if this this thiswhen I come up earlier than some of
the other ones, that they listento this one and then do it,
Jack, I think you're the wholethat's that is cheating. But you open
yourself up to it. Just say, to be fair, there might be

(04:14):
another Jordan Sparks reference in this episode, considering that when Kevin put the laundry
back over his head, he hadno air. So I think that Jordan
Sparks is going to play a muchlarger part in this episode. But I
did just going back to that.So aside from the voiceover and the song
that's playing, which yes, Jayis indeed real, no dialogue whatsoever from
these characters. I thought, youknow, much like the cave woman that

(04:36):
we saw at the beginning of seasontwo, this was all done entirely in
silence, but at the same timeit was still very effective if not more
effective, because again, if we'redrawing these lines between this group and the
guilty remnant, the lack of speechmakes sense. Yeah, yeah, And
it's something that Jack enjoys very muchwhen there's no talking and it's just the
facial acting, if you will,and the the showing emotion without using word

(05:01):
as a very impactful thing. AndI think all the actors in this scene
did it really well. They're fantastic. I felt bad they give the guy
the goat and he just laughs atthem. But if you if there is
more like Millerism, there's a lotof perils. It's not exactly the same
as as Mike's point out, eventhe director has said it's in Australia,
but there is a lot of similaritiesthat you can try to even the kind

(05:25):
of weird um animals and stuff likethat that were on the thing you can
look at on the Wikipedia page forMillerism or the Great Disappointment. There's like
the same thing. So interesting stuff, interesting start to the season and excited
to podcasts about Leftovers. It's finalseason. Jack had a lot of concerns

(05:46):
that season two was so good,it was such a great season of TV
that the third season could never liveup to how awesome season two was.
He thought David Lindelof should have justhung up, hung his hat and said,
that's it. I was thinking.I was thinking of my good friend
Damion Damien da Damien. Well,you know, it could have been whatever

(06:10):
I was. I just was.I was worried for him. I just
you know, the whole cast,I mean, the whole crew and everybody.
I just it was so good lastyear. It's just how do you
top it? So it started outwith a bang, and like I said,
the opening scene I thought was wehad our cave woman scene. I
guess you want to call it,but uh yeah, and the acting was
great. I just I felt badto you know, the woman that I
kind of joked about in the beginning. She's walking away and she's just like

(06:32):
I can't get a break, andyou know, and her husband's leaving,
her son's you know. Um,I just felt bad for her. Well,
it's it seems like Jack is wrongyet again, because the reviews coming
in for this season have been gigantic, saying it's like like an amazing season.
It's gonna be the best thing onTV this year. I didn't say
it was gonna be a bad season. I said, I'm a coward and

(06:55):
I wouldn't have come back for I'mgood. Um. But we excited because
this season on The Leftovers with JaneJack, we have added Mike to the
crew for the last season the podcastsabout this show. Really enjoyed podcasting with
Mike for our West World show andexcited to have him here on this one.
Mike, hopefully we don't we don'tburn you out with all of these

(07:17):
podcasts. This isn't Survivor where weare, so we will be survivors by
the end of this. Considering allthe rigamarole of the podcast that we do
know and I talked about on theprevious show, I am super excited to
get into this. I was ableto finish both of my season's binge of
The Leftovers plus listen to your Guyscoverage in preparation for this. So I

(07:38):
find myself pretty well versed in abook that got almost thrown on the metaphoric
grill here, considering especially that lastscene in true Leftovers style, especially in
the beginning of a season, wehave so many questions raised, but that
makes me more excited to hopefully eitheranswer those questions with you guys, or
try to answer them and then findout that those questions will never be answered,

(07:59):
either of which I'm totally fine with. Did I spoil you Jay on
the No, It honestly didn't.Until I saw I was like, oh
that's what he meants. Okay,yeah, but because I didn't want to
tell you, but I didn't really, I go, well, I'm really
not spoiling you because you're not gonnaknow what I'm talking about till it happens.
But I was in New York,not Maybelton, New York, but

(08:20):
Long Island, New York and backearly this morning and excited to podcast this
season. Like all I guess traditionalJane Jack recap or TV show podcasts,
it will have a recap where we'llkind of break down what happened in the
episode. Then we'll kind of dissectit within that recap. Then we'll have
listener feedback. These shows are aremade better and honestly worth listening to you

(08:45):
because of your feedback, and wewill have that as part of the show.
And then each show will close outwith Jack's crackpot theory of the week.
I feel like he has some goodsource material to work with this week
to come up with something nice.But we will see, sure at the
end of the apside of my huhso I'm sure yeah. Um, But
before we get to that, whenI think people that make this show possible,

(09:07):
our patrons or patreon dot com,slash Jay and Jack, uh,
you know, putting all the timeinto doing this podcasts is uh, it's
a labor of love. And whileit's not something you know, we get
rich off of or even can liveoff of. Um, the contributions that
our listeners make, our patrons makeuh you know, actually you know,
help help make the time. UM. I don't say worthwhile, but at

(09:28):
least help in some way help Jackpay off his his massive gambling debts.
Um. They are massive, butif you shouldn't have followed the pigeons in
the casino, they worked well forone person, but not necessarily for you.
No, but whether you can contributeone dollar or more a month,
you can check it out Patreon dotcom, slash Jay and Jack at all

(09:52):
helps and there's different levels and rewardsat each level. Um. So I
go to Jane Jack the complic onthat become a patre link to become a
patron today, all right, guys, are you ready to jump into this
recaps? Do it all right?Let's go all right, it's left overs

(10:28):
recap time. The Book of Kevinstarts out with where we start out our
podcast with arriving in an eighteen fortyfour town with a type of apocalyptic Christian
group similar to Millerism. We followa family of a husband, wife,
and son. They stand on theroof January fourteenth, eighteen forty four,
but nothing happens. Town makes funof them. Head Priests gets new message

(10:52):
from a carrier pigeon. New dateis set at April sixteenth, eighteen forty
four, which when the show airedwas April sixteenth. Less people on the
roofs this time, and again nothinghappens. Priests gets a new message from
a pigeon has kind of a sadlook on his face. Father tries to
get the message from this priest.A new day to say set, but

(11:16):
the father and son leave the mothershe is on the roof alone. A
storm comes. She rides out thestorm. The next morning, soaking wet,
she goes and lays down with theother remaining members in this church.
And then it's kind of a panshotto Jardin miracle. After the grs cause
chaos in the visitor center, kindof where we left him last. Evie

(11:39):
wakes up and asks Meg writes down, asking Meg, what are they waiting
for? Meg says Evie is muchbetter at this than her, maybe she
should be in charge. Mag sharesa story of siegfeed Siegfried and Roy and
their tigers and basically says, youknow they're slaying on these tires. The
only thing there's tige, just amatter of time before one of those efforts

(12:01):
bites to your face off. Duringthis, see a camera drill in.
Eb runs out and sees men inblack ess of V's pull away, and
we see a drone plane coming inand the reflection of EV's glasses we see
a drone dropping a bomb going straightinto her boom cut to whites. So
one of the questions that we hadin our kind of preseason show was is

(12:26):
anything going to happen to Meg?We'll make her cup uppens, And we
got that answer pretty quick though.I'm going to throw out another bold prediction
here. I don't know if it'sa branded Mike Bloom hot take, but
it's a bit of a bold prediction. So you have to wonder, this
was a really bold way to getrid of the GR, and I sort

(12:48):
of love the irony in that theGr's whole m o, whether it is
kind of this rogue gallery led byMeg, or whether it's in its original
form. Their messages essentially to say, you know, we want to leave
a lasting impression, we want peopleto not forget us. But now they've
essentially been at least this sect hasbeen wiped off the map, which is
again is a very ironic fitting endingthat for trying to leave a permanent impression.

(13:13):
We'll see later on with these characters, I think they're a little more
screwed up than we initially thought.But there for the most part, nobody
really talks about the GR anymore,so I guess mission failed. From that
perspective, however, you would thinkthat two characters like Evy and Meg that
played such important roles in season twowould not just immediately go in season three

(13:35):
eighty. You know, I don'tthink we're going the route of just killing
off a bunch of our main characterssince it's our farewell season. Part of
me does wonder, since they've introducedthis idea of spirits haunting people, Tommy
has an affiliation with Meg. Whatif you know, Kevin is not Tommy's

(13:58):
biological father, but maybe there's there'ssomething in that garve adjacent blood that allows
Tommy to see Meg's spirit and shehaunts him. Well, the thing is
liv Tyler is still a starring title. She gets like the starring title,
so you know, whether it's flashbacksor she does hunt. Maybe Tommy,
like Patty haunted Kevin. I thinkthat's what I think. I can I

(14:20):
can there colo sign that as ahot take. I think it's a good
hot take. We want to gothat route though, and it works so
well with Patty in season two?Do we want to go that route though?
I mean I feel like a it'sa cannon worms and now they've opened,
they're not entirely sure how to close. I mean, that's the thing
with the Guilty Remnant though, thatwas another can of worms where you know,
especially at the end of season two, you have them sort of causing

(14:41):
the habit that they did at theend of the season one where they walk
it onto the street. It's masschaos. People are diving into their worst
proclivities and there's just mass chaos andviolence and so you have to wonder sort
of where do we go from there. I do think wiping them off the
face of the earth was definitely away for the writers to sort of create
a to boolarassa for them to writea new story on that would eventually make
their way into this book. Butat the same time, now that they've

(15:03):
you know, provided this plot device, you feel like it has to be
used, you know, you don't. I do not think that now the
Patty Levin's dead, this aspect ofthe spirituality of the Leftovers is going to
be gone and forgotten, much likethe Guilty Remnant. So I really think,
especially since those that seem to behaunting them are members of the Guilty

(15:24):
Remnant, it would be really interestingif Meg was haunting Tommy. Maybe there's
a connection with John still. Maybeone of the reasons John Murphy still believes
his daughter is alive is because he'shaunted by her spirit. There might be
something in there. It's only thefirst episode. We've got a lot to
dive into, but I have tothink that there's more to these two characters.

(15:45):
From the two minutes we saw inthis episode. Well, I'm hoping
Meg's alive because I think one ofmy theories was that she was going to
be pregnant with Tommy's baby. Yeah, so if this kind of screwed me
over, like the first two minutesthe episode Tommy's ghost space, who knows,
he knows how Tommy's there? Yougo, Tommy, wake up?
Yeah? I mean I remember lastseason, like really, Megan, the

(16:08):
guilty rem didn't show up until kindof later in the season because there's points
we were like, you know what, they haven't really talked about too much,
And I'm like, maybe that's whythis season seems better because there hasn't
been these annoying guilty remnant But oncethey showed up, it was such like
a catalyst for what ended up becomingthis this big close to the season.

(16:30):
Um, so yeah, we agreethey can't be a lie, but they
could be in spirit for him.Well, I mean, are are we
taking the John Murphy approach here andand thinking somehow Evie pulled it off again
even though it seemed like the bombwas right at her face and it was
kind right, it was coming rightfor and she wasn't one running, She
was just standing there watching it come. Unless she's was dead the whole time,

(16:51):
maybe that was a dream. Shehad a dream about it. Remember
she got out. She has theknack from Remember she has those she shakes,
the seizures. Yeah, seizures.So maybe she remember we didn't we
think that she could transport. Iguess it was my theory. She could
transport into where the she can go. She can go to the part of
the world. Yeah, you wantit. You you had the theory that

(17:12):
since in the first episode there wasthat random clip of her and her friends
running naked. You thought that whenshe had a fit, when she had
a seizure, that's the place thatshe went to. I don't know if
that's been proven or if it wasjust you know, behavior of the girls.
But if she's alive, then that'sthat could be possible. But she
could go I mean when and theywere killed in a miracle. And you

(17:37):
know, if if Kevin is anyuh, could it be a parallel to
Kevin's ability? Um, but youknow you can't kill Kevin, that's for
sure. And when Kevin goes overinto the Other World hotel, he is
butt naked, as we clearly see. Um, so maybe there's a correlation.
It's a he's got a good butt. Yeah, it's not Hey,

(18:00):
I'm not complaining. Jennifer Anderson isis a very lucky gal. Um.
But uh yeah, I I Ikind of like it. Um. I
liked the story, the Seek Freeand Roy story that Meg presented because it
kind of just it very accurately hitsthe nail on the head of what's happening
to them, um, where youknow they they keep pushing and keep pushing,

(18:23):
and eventually you know there's going tobe pushed back, which is you
know, getting wiped off the faceof the earth. Um, tiger bites
back. Uh So it cuts towhite and then we go to a three
years later and uh, interesting aboutthis episode there was no title sequence.
Um. So there's two different titlesequences between season one and season two.

(18:45):
Season one had this very um,you know, romanesque with the kind of
the the Sisteine Chapel type painting ofthe departed, which was kind of weird
and slightly depressing, and then seasontwo had you know, that kind of
country song and this this starry andthis season there was, or at least

(19:06):
this episode, there was nothing.Are we are we thinking that the no
more title screens in this last season? All right? I have a small
thought about this because it's all aboutthe quote unquote theme song of the Leftovers.
I feel like, you know,Jay, you might speak to this.
There's like a recurring musical motif thathappened to the leftover the piano music
of like Dudu and the first seasonit was just the solo piano, which

(19:32):
I think goes with the dirge thatwas slash like choral music. That was
that first season theme song. Thesecond season did the same song, but
they did like a bluegrass version.I think there was like a slide guitar
in there, so that makes sensewith the theme song. I don't know
if you notice. At the veryend of this episode they did the theme
again, but it was like somesort of Harry Potter esque theme. It's

(19:52):
not a very whimsical and magical.So that's what I think the season three
theme is going to be. Ido think we're gonna get it next week.
Would be criminal to deprive us ofit. It's sort of like what
they did with the Wire, whereyou know they kept doing that, they
kept using the different singers than differentstyles of music, but with the same
amount of lyrics. You'd have tothink that they're going to do a new
theme song, especially to cap offthe final season. I'm going to bet,

(20:15):
since we're going into this very mysticalroute, we're really doubling down on
those aspects this season. I'm gonnabet it's going to be something that you
would hear when you're looking for likebasically that's from Harry Potter, but nothing
that would get us, you know, sued for copyright infringement. One thing
like John Williams Harry Potter's score,like he basically ripped off all his other

(20:36):
scores. I would say, listento the Hook soundtrack, very similar melodies
in the Hook soundtrack to the HarryPotter one. But I not to get
an I digress, I don't gettoo far off. But so three years
later, we see Chief Kevin Garveyis ascid if the police should slow the
flow of people. Kevin says,all are welcome. We see a big

(20:57):
crater of where the visitor center usedto be. We have kind of the
first playing of the Sign of theJudgment song that kind of repeats itself a
few times throughout the episode. Kevinrides his horse Andy, which is pretty
cool, into the town. Ithas become basically a huge camp site with
people kind of in the streets everywhere. The man on the pillar is still

(21:19):
there, and Kevin's son Tommy isarguing with the two bros and an inflatable
Gary Busey. Gary Busey, whois supposedly going to return on October fourteenth,
talk about dinner being tonight at sixo'clock, even though Tommy preferred five
thirty. It's his birthday after all. Kevin finds a flyer under his It

(21:40):
seems like a mapleton had I thinkit's a mapleton hat. Goes to match
church and Matt is talking about somethingpossibly happening seven years after the departure,
referencing a lot of seven years referencesin the Bible, and that is in
two weeks. He kind of showsoff his wife and son is proof that
Jardan is special about how you knowshe woke up up the coma after three

(22:03):
years the point they will have akid. We got a kid, um
and uh. His wife doesn't seemtoo keen on the whole thing, but
she plays along enough. Um.Kevin afterwards goes in and sees Michael on
the laptop. He closes it andasks if he was looking at porn because
as a people do when they closedtheir laptop as they're looking at porn um.

(22:25):
Michael kind of seems disinterested in thatum and he asks Matt and Michael
if they can tone it down.He doesn't want another the town exploding again.
Matt asks Michael if he saw itum, not the porn. We
assume something related to the book hewas writing, but thoughts here On arriving

(22:48):
three years later in Miracle, Texas, I forgot that David David Gary Busey,
Gary Gary Busey had departed. Sothat was so it was a good
red love. I love that part. I was great because I was trying
to figure out who was that inflatable? I go, who is that supposed
to be? When they said,ah, Gary Busey, I'm glad they

(23:11):
I'm glad they cleared down. Atfirst, I thought it was gonna be
like some type of new antagonists,like some type of preachair person. And
that's that's what I thought too,And I go, what, I go,
is it trying to be Trump?I really didn't know what they were
going for it. I'm just goingthen, I go, oh, Gary
Busey, that's right man. Anyway, Yeah, I'm surprised that these guys

(23:33):
were going for Gary Busey and not, you know, bringing up two monolithic
structures in honor of the Perfect Strangerseven though one of our unresolved questions.
I think from season two or seasonone, there was like an expose where
I think Mark Lynn Baker, whoplayed Larry in Perfect Strangers, was like
he he faked being departed and he'sapparently like hiding out in Mexico. There

(23:56):
might be some more to crack intothat. Maybe we'll get a Mark Lynn
Baker cameo this season. I knowit's sorely needed, but I didn't expect
those guys as a big BC fans. But there, what did you think
about? I guess, first ofall, Kevin becoming the chief of the
Miracle. I mean, I feellike in season two when he went down
there, he was all about leavingthe police game behind. Now he's essentially
running the law and Order division onceagain. And second of all, he

(24:18):
seems to be just throwing out deputybadges left and right, so he doesn't
bring it throughout a really poignant quoteto Tommy of see what happens when you
make people feel important, which forsomeone who might unintentionally be building a following
himself. I think it's a veryvery meaningful quote from Kevin Well that and
it's just he seems very kind ofgo at the flow and not as uptight

(24:41):
as he was last season, andvery welcoming to everybody. I got a
little, I don't want to saychoked up, but just there's just this
moment between him and Tommy where youknow, he's kind of smiled, and
it kind of it continued that goodfeelings that I had at the end of
season two where he's kind of backand he's home home with his family,
and his family's back together, andI got a little, a little pull

(25:04):
at the heartstrings for me in thatlittle scene that his son is there with
him and kind of following in hisfather's footsteps. And the nice parallel as
well with Tommy being thrown a party, considering that in the Garvey's at their
best, the episode that I knowon our preview, I put up there
as the episode you should show peoplewhen you first want to get them into

(25:26):
the Leftovers. They were throwing aparty for Papa Garvey in that episode,
and both cases, I think you'vehad these mirror conversations of like, you
know, he knows it's not asurprise party. Yeah, so it's clear
that, if anything, you know, Kevin may have this messiah like complex,
but at the same time, he'shorrible at throwing surprise party. So
you know everyone has Ah, it'strue, It's very true. So then

(25:51):
we go to a Chief Kevin,who has a meeting with his police department
preparing for the influx of people withthe approaching October fourteenth, gives everybody permanent
ot which are all pretty pumped aboutwho's pay who's paying, how they paying
for all this? We know?I mean, are they charging people to
come in? Still? Are they? I Mean, what's the big question

(26:12):
mark is what does Jardin look likethree years from now? Because I believe
that the Visitors Center itself is acrater. You know, they sort of
did away with all the stipulations andsanctions from the second season. Anyone can
just sort of drive in, nowristbands required. But it seems like they're
also still selling merchandise in the townsquare as well. At least that's I

(26:33):
think what we're led to believe.Maybe we'll see more so into what this
new Jardin is like, but maybethey're still bringing income in from tourism,
even though I think now they mightnot be so well known as you know,
the city that had no departures andmuch as it was, I don't
know, the city that had nodepartures and then a riot broke out and
then their major landmark got blown up. It's very true. UM. Nora

(27:00):
gives a rundown of what needs tohappen when the D word is brought up
that his departure, she doesn't needno microphone, she doesn't um, and
she has a cast on her arm, which is kind of focused on in
terms of shots. Um. Andafter that they talk about Tom's surprise party,
which getting referencing that he knows andshe says, you know that's that's

(27:22):
part of the fun, is youknow, it's just still throwing him the
party. Um. Kevin gets avisit and it's a visit from Dean,
another character that we brought up inour preview show. UM is like,
you know, is he gonna showup or is he done? I thought
he was done, but my kindof if it was your hot taker not
but you thought he would show up. Um. But Dean is excited to

(27:42):
see Kevin, says their prey hasadapted and shows him a PEB and J
sandwich, says a senator took abite of it and wants to get it
tested for canine DNA, proving thatdogs are turning into powerful people's to take
over the world. Dogs are people. They have the finger on the button,

(28:03):
to which Garvey replies, paw,it's the paw on the button and
tries to give it some that whathe's thinking is on his head, cuts
to him killing kid Patty and sayswe'll talk tomorrow. Dean just trying to
make sure that Garvey has not turnedor Garvey is not a changed dog,
blows a dog whistle. Yeah,thoughts here for the return of Dean.

(28:32):
Dean just as nutty as always.I can't remember we said on our preview.
I think we were hesitant to saythat we were bringing back season one
characters just because I think we weresaying they moved on to Jardin. You
know, the people who move overfrom Abeleton did in the second season.
It would be strange for us tobring back some more from the first season.
Low and Behold, here's Dean.Last time we saw him, he
was trying to kill Patty. Hehad that big kerfuffle with Kevin in the

(28:53):
cabin and then you heard him sortof yell at another voice before he leaves.
I'm still not sure if he hadhis own spirit that was haunting him
or whether he was just a littleoff. I think this episode shows him
might be more of the ladder.I will say. As much as people
might throw the image onto The Leftoversas a very depressing and dowers show,

(29:15):
this was a pretty funny episode ofThe Leftovers. I thought Justin Thurreau was
the great straight man in this episode. And to have like the music build
to like this very ominous music,and then to have Dean then say like,
oh, I think it's the dogs, and then the music just drops
out. They've done this before.It reminds me of like last season when

(29:37):
Patty's like, you know, youknow how to get rid of me Kevin,
and Kevin's like, oh yeah,tell me. He's like, you're
gonna find this chalice cup that you'regonna fill it with your expectorate from the
South, I should say, Andlike again, it's just these fun,
little comedic moments that they decided tothrow into the show really makes me enjoy
the show even more than that,it's able to really plumb a depth of
emotions rather than just once. Soit was a really well done scene.

(30:02):
And I think you know Dean isgoing to show more significance in his second
scene than his first. But veryinteresting cameo here to bring back a character
from season one. I'm still debatingexactly what the use of Dean here was.
Now, is Dean crazy or becausethere's always been this dog Well,
season one was heavy on it,season two not so much. Well,
they had to quarantine the dogs.Why did they have to quarantine the dogs?

(30:23):
It never made sense why you hadto quarantine the dogs. And it
just there's always been a dog theme. So I maybe maybe Dean is not
crazy. He's dead, but maybehe's not well. And I yet spoiler
later, I'm sorry, Just Jackie, just keep on spoiling. Spoiler spoils.
I'm sorry if you want to bespoiled. John, we didn't go
to John, who's seemingly taken onhis brother's work with an assist from Lorie.

(30:48):
Kevin shows up to see if Loriecan help out with Dean. Jean
Shred's money that he's given and he'snow with Lorie. Where's Erica? Um
we can talk about that later Tommy'ssurprise party, he offers his wish out,
nobody uh does it, so hetakes his own wish, which seems

(31:11):
to be that. Jill arrives andsays, this is where the ft up
people are, so it's good tosee Jill on the porch. The guys
are sharing stories from when they weretwenty five. Matt eight cowbrains on a
trip and threw up, John workedat a locker story for five days,
and Kevin shares the story of meetingLorie and Tommy in a car crash and

(31:33):
kind of jokingly says divine intervention.Matt and Michael look at each other,
and Matt kind of probes there alittle bit and ask, what do you
mean? Kevin looks at a somewhatsad Nora as she's holding Noah, which
also there is the Where's Lily?Jill goes home says it's the last time

(31:56):
we're going to see each other,joking about the world ending in two weeks.
Jill references Lily about Norah. Kevinasked she should he should ask her
about it and joke, I don'tknow. Um uh. We then go
to Nora and uh Kevin and askedif the guys were talking about their penises.
UM talks about how he met Laurieand then reference to how they met
each other, you know, atthe divorce office, and she corrects him,

(32:19):
saying, no, is that atChristmas dance and you told uh me
that you cheated on your wife.We need to come up with a better
or or meeting story. Um.U talks about the cast coming off in
two days. I wonder what thiscast is about. UM. They get
intimate UM and Kevin afterwards is staringat the ceiling and he goes to sleep.

(32:39):
There's a few moments in this episodewhere like he was doing something.
I was like, Okay, what'sgoing to happen? So he's kind of
closing his eyes and it's something goingto happen. Because in the last season
he closed his eyes and he wokeup somewhere else. UM, but this
time he wakes up in bed.Nothing is weird or strange. Uh.
Nora is going to Yeah, Norais going to ride her bike feeling groovy

(33:02):
by Simon and garfunco plays. Hegets dressed some under the hotel and then
attempts to kill himself by a fixiation, but then he leaves the house just
fine. So let's break down thesescenes here. Mike, why don't you
take the first stab here? Okay, So the first thing I want to
talk about is Jill and I don'tknow if you guys really talked about it

(33:24):
in season two, but I thinkcompared to her season one storyline, which
someone argue whether or not they weregood, but I think Jill did get
a good heft of plot to herin season one, got scaled back a
little in season two. I'm notentirely sure if Lindeloff knew what to do
with Jill in a new setting.All we really got was the flirt mass
between her and Michael. I don'tknow what came of that in the next

(33:45):
three years. Seems like she's offto college. My question for you guys
is A do you hope and Bdo you think we're going to see a
lot more Jill Garvey this season ordo you think she's also going to kind
of get you know, pushed intothe background in Loui the other globe trotting
things that these characters are going todo this season. I think she's I

(34:05):
kind of get pushed the side she'sin college, um and She kind of
seems like she doesn't want to playwhatever, you know, big family um
game that everybody else is playing.She kind of wants to do her own
thing. She still hasn't resolved thethings with her mother, Laurie. UM.
So yeah, I think I thinkwe're probably not going to see her

(34:25):
too much. But you know,who knows what could happen? Jack,
what do you think? I hateto say it, but I agree with
Jay. Well, like you said, she's she's she you know, Kevin
said you can stay here, Hegoes, No, if I stay here,
mom will be all weirded out andshe'll make me feel guilty. You
could stay with him now, thenshe'll be talk to me all night long
and try to apologize. I no, no, she you know, I

(34:45):
think they I think they were justokay. Well, we don't want to
forget about her. Here she is, and like Mike would say, she's
gonna be I don't think she's goingto be part of this scene, all
right. So another another character thatI do want to bring up in terms
of their visual rules in this seasonis as you mentioned, Lily, because
I guess one of the big questionsher and Erica seem to be the really

(35:06):
two characters from the second season ifyou count Lily as a character. I
mean, she's not really build,but she's still a character who did not
be who are not hold Rivers intoseason three. I've got two theories to
throw out too, So give mea B or none of the above.
A. For some reason, Erica, since she lost a daughter, is
in deep mourning. Nora remembers thewar of words they had back in the

(35:30):
Lens episode and decides to give Lilyto Erica, and Erica and Lily decide
to get the hell out of Dodge. B. If we're talking about season
one cameos, what if the originalmama of Lily, Christine Holy Wayne's initial
concubine, ends up finding her wayto John It and ends up taking the
baby. See neither Do you guyshave any guesses with any of those options?

(35:52):
Well, if if, if,if Nora had something to do with
maybe Lily dying or something like,I don't see how nor could be anywhere
remotely fine, So I think ithas to be something, um one of
one of your two thoughts, youryour theories are I think are really good?
Um one, It's kind of twobirds with one stone. On where's

(36:12):
Erica and Lily? Um, andit would make sense. Um. And
two it would be nice to kindof bring in Holy Wayne uh then that
thread um back into this season.I know Damon's a big fan of these
kind of like, um, theHarry Potter esque bookends and then everything kind
of coming to the middle and thenkind of going back out and it paralleling

(36:34):
each other from the middle of thestory. Um. So uh, that
would be an interesting I think eitherone could be valid um and probably would
be the best. Um uh responseto that, Jack, what do you
think? Well, my crack pipetheory was similar to a So since since
that that's all I've got, I'vejust been ethaned. Um. Yeah,

(37:01):
all right, Well we'll move onthen from me stealing Jack shadow because because
I really had nothing and I'm likegoing thing because what this whole episode was
just like what the heck? Imean, I want to talk about the
scene where he's got the plastic bagover. Yeah, I think that's I
think that's the next big point,because I mean, first you have to

(37:23):
give Justin Thurreau so much credit inthe world. I mean, first off,
just speaking George Justin Thurreau, Ifeel like the dude came in as
more a writer than an actor.I mean, he was more so well
known before this as a screenwriter.I believe he did Tropic Thunder. I
think he did like Zulaander two.He might have done a couple of other
comedy movies in the Ben Stiller camp. But he's really coming to his own

(37:45):
as an actor, especially tackling suchdark material. But all the power to
him, I have no idea howthey were actually able to have that without
him actually suffocating himself. So tohave him put a bag over his head,
duct tape it tight, just sitthere for thirty seconds choking to death
slowly is astounding. Well not onlythat, but you know they do these

(38:06):
scenes more than once, so it'sover and oh hopefully had to do it
once. Hopefully only had to dothat scene once. And I'm just like
going, I kept watching the bag, Okay, is there something? Is
he getting air from somewhere else?This is freaking me out. I mean,
I don't I don't know how youdo that scene in Stay Calm.
The other thing that I wonder aboutKevin, because this episode does sort of

(38:28):
parallel the season two premiere Access Monday, and that on the surface, when
we first met the Murphy family,things seemed relatively normal. You know,
they had some quirks. You havea daughter that goes into fits, you
have a mother who's death, thefather's been to prison. But they seem
like a pretty good nuclear family allthings considered, and then you start to
find out things fall apart a bit. I don't almost feel like we got
the same thing here. Albeit weknow the characters at this point, but

(38:52):
once we see you know, Kevinhad a nice night's sleeping with Norah,
no random nightmares, no flashes ofhim go in different places without him remembering
it until much later. But thento have him put that laundry bag oversaid,
which, by the way, whenhe opened that closet, really fun
call out to not only International Assassinwith opening the closet, but if you
remember season one, there was thatwhole storyline where he couldn't get any white

(39:15):
shirts from the cleaners and so heeventually just went like super agro and like
basically held him up a gunpoint toget the shirts. So that was a
fun call back to both seasons.But I have to wonder, after Kevin's
died and has come back to lifetwice, I wonder if Kevin almost can't
live unless he feels like he's dying. To quote another American Idol winner loosely

(39:37):
with their song, it's that,you know, he really can't go on
living unless he is able to simulategetting close to that sensation of dying again.
Maybe he felt ironically most alive whenhe was dead, yeah, Or
is there something that he has tokind of go to when he goes into

(39:58):
that other realm? Or he washe trying to go back to the hotel?
Is he trying I'm saying, yeah, go to that that hotel realm
um? Or or is he justkind of playing with it? Like is
he just does he like tape andthen do it and then eventually like save
himself before he actually dies, Likehe just playing with the line. But
why would you play with it?Because it's pretty intense. I mean he's
wrapping that tape around his neck.I mean, it's it's an intense scene.

(40:22):
I don't it's just it is.It is interesting because otherwise he seems
perfectly fine, like the most stableKevin we've seen so far, you know,
definitely whatever, but so far hisdad's not around, it seems to
be when his dad's around. That'swhen things go wrong, wouldn't you agree?
Maybe, I mean, we'll soonsee the inverse of that, I

(40:45):
would think based on the previews forthe season, So who knows, who
knows um thoughts on Nora going offon the bike. Something seems to be
up there, just something that we'llkind of see down the road. Kevin

(41:06):
has a horse, Nora has abike. Well, I heard that.
I did not read the original sourcematerial. I have heard that Nora riding
her bike might be a call backto the novel, because I believe in
the original source material the character ofNorah Durst. They said like, oh,
she was always riding her bike aroundMapleton. So maybe it's just a
slight call out to that. Imean, there is the mystery of the
cast too, and you'll hope atsome point sort of like would happen with

(41:30):
Access Monday? And then in amatter of geography, the second episode we
jump back to see what happened inMapleton before they decide to move down.
We might see how Nora ended upbreaking her arm. Maybe it has something
to do with Lily's disappearance as well. We're not entirely sure, but yes,
something seems to be a little offwith Nora as well. Nora's maintaining
but she's always had this fantastic veneerof everything being fine when in the shadow

(41:52):
she has to get shot by prostituteswearing a bulletproof vest in order to actually
feel something, which again is nottoo dissimilar to what Kevin might be doing
with the laundry bags. So itis similar. That's a good that's a
good point. So you're saying,maybe maybe she broke her arm on purpose.
I mean, if that's the case, if she could only really get

(42:14):
a lift in the terms of spiritsout of breaking an arm, you think
she'd be in traction by now.I don't know if it's exactly that.
Maybe it's something like simple like,oh, you know, she has to
climb to a high height in orderand feel the sensation of falling down to
your death. And maybe one timeshe actually does try to climb a big
tree and accidentally slips off the branchand breaks her arm or something. That's

(42:34):
just a total May she broke herMaybe she broke it riding her bike.
That's true as well. She didnot have any no spike safety for Norah
Durst, no helmet, no helmetrisk pads, no elbow pads. She
didn't, and she didn't look bothways when she went into the street.
She just darted. I mean,it depends on your state's laws. I
know in North Carolina, if you'relike over sixteen, don't anywhere a helmet
anymore. So, I mean youshould, but you should still look both

(42:57):
ways when you go into the street. Maybe she's she don't care, short
hair, don't care. Norah Durstis an empty nest at this point.
If we believe that Lily is goneand Jill's off to college, I don't
think she really needs to impart anylife lessons on to anyone at this point,
so she can just do whatever thehell she wants. How that works,
Yeah, I guess, I guessthat's how it works. Yeah,
you're you're close to that, right, Actually I'm close. Not there yet,

(43:21):
we asked no soon, Yeah,I will in a few months,
so we uh. As he leavesthe house, he gets a call from
Tommy protesters have poisoned the spring.He gets there, protesters saying they poisoned
the water in the response of theassassination of ninety three guilty remnant, and
they started taking her speak up thenames like Meg and Evie. UM.
Rocks get thrown and Cass breaks outin like some dude gets like hit in

(43:44):
the face, like in the face. UM. And I don't know if
that guy lived. I don't know. But anyways, Kevin, I don't
think anyone died. As the Cassis ensuing, UM, Kevin just walks
over. I think the I've beenhere before, it doesn't matter. So
he just jumps in UM and hedrinks the water, says it's fine,

(44:06):
it was a hoax or prank.Um. And then Michael kind of goes
in and he baptizes Kevin. Kevinsays it doesn't count. UM. We
then go to h and it's interestinglike when he jumped into the water,
the whole chaos stopped, which Ithought was really interesting. And there was
there was some interesting symbolism there aswell though, because if you notice,

(44:29):
the congregation was all decked out inwhite, yes, and then you have
a group of rebels sort of protestingthem going through with this religious ceremony.
So it's almost like it's flip flopwhere you know those in white are trying
are the quote unquote good people tryingto do this thing while those that are
protesting are the ones that are notin white. But Kevin's playing the role

(44:51):
of a sheriff wood. He herebecause someone has poison the water hole though,
so but so so do we thinkthat there was actual POI he's an
in there or do you think,as Kevin said, it was a hoax
and these you know, green piecewannabees just kind of wanted to have it
be one big test. That's moreso a prank, but just to rattle
them a bit. Yeah, Ithink it's more of the rattling. If

(45:14):
Meg's in charge, it would havebeen poisoned, but these these young whipper
snappers haven't quite gotten to that levelyet. But Kevin can't die, right,
that's what we assume. So ifhe jumps into this poisoned water,
he's not going to die. Sowhat happens if Michael jumps in? Doesn't
he die if it's poison Well,he wasn't like waiters or whatever, so
I think he didn't actually stick hisface underneath the water. I'm not an

(45:36):
expert. I'm no you know Debbiefrom Survivor in terms of water management,
but he assume that as long asyou don't ingest the water or no,
none of the poison water comes intoyour body, but you should be okay
well splashing into the water. Idon't know quickly it was confirmed that it
wasn't poison because I assume more peoplegot baptized after Kevin left. No,

(45:59):
I'm saying it because Kevin can't himliving well? He would he would he
would have died though, he wouldhave died if it was poison. Yeah,
he would have died. And thenhe no, he does, he
does die, he just comes back. That's okay, all right? So?
Um so was he trying to die? No? He was just I
mean, he was just like,you know, I can't die, So

(46:19):
let me see if it is ornot? Um So, why why he
had to walk all the way?Rep Could he just walked in straight into
the water you wanted to jump in? I guess more dramatic that way,
It's more dramatic. Uh. Wethen go to Tommy driving Kevin. Um.
He says to ride of what wouldhappen? And Kevin kind of replies
with the fake story that he usedto cover it up. Um. Tommy
asked how knew the water wasn't poisoned, and he says, I just knew,

(46:40):
and he kind of calls bs onthat. Um, the car gets
shot at. It's Dean, umand uh he saw a dog. Uh
you know. Uh, Kevin's freakingout about Tommy. Where is Tommy?
Uh? Dean just keeps shooting hisUh Kevin's gun is Jander work. Um.
He says he's changed and just sayshe's ready to kill Kevin. Tommy

(47:04):
blows his head off. Tommy isshook up. Kevin shares that he should
see someone. He talks about killingPatty and her armed guards, which Tommy
seems somewhat confused by um. Andit also flashes to him when he killed
her in the hotel room. Andthen we cut to a dog grabbing the
peb and J sandwich again like sucha great I mean, I'm at this

(47:30):
point going to make the bull predictionthat I think this dog storyline is not
true, so I think it's justa great capper. Onto the end of
this, I thought Dean's final wordswere actually interestingly ominous to Kevin, you
change, you son of a bitch. I think that's not only representation of
the role that Kevin is too goingto be hoisted upon, but the fact
that I think you know, theshow has changed a lot since season one.

(47:51):
I feel like it's almost a metaacknowledgment of what the show has become
based on what the original concept was. And it was sort of almost a
menage from the writers of life.Hey, that season one stuff is not
going to fly here in season three. Characters like Dean, who were sort
of the bmocs are gonna be dajust because they can't deal with Jardan.
He's outnumbered. Uh. And itis interesting, I'm trying to remember,

(48:17):
did Tommy there was this uh ifyou remember the raid on Holy Wayne's place
in the beginning of season one,I'm trying to remember this was the first
person that Tommy had killed because I'mtrying to because I know there was somebody
that like held up Christine and Ithink Tommy killed that. Yeah, you
might not need as much conditioning asKevin would think, but he seemed really

(48:38):
shook up. And if if,if it mattered that he killed someone before,
I'm sure we would have flashback forit. I think, you know,
the little flash flash flashbacks that theydid were good, but it was
also like coming back to the show. Maybe if you didn't rewatch the season's
leading up to it. The flashbacksare also helping to kind of get you
back into the story in the contextof maybe you know, everything happened before.

(49:00):
Um so as as this first episode, coming back into the season after
being off the air for what ayear and a half or so, I
thought those little flashes were good tokind of bring you back into the story.
So if they didn't show Tommy killingbecause you're right, there was like
that and he had to like,you know, help get out safely,
and I think he did. Itseems like he hurt somebody at least do

(49:21):
that. So I can't remember ifhe killed him, but he did he
did injure somebody. I could bethe one that another most was you recently
just rewatched. Yeah, so we'lltake we'll take your word on it.
And again people can feel free tocraig me. But I'm fairly sure one
of the early season one episodes startedoff with the raid on Holy Wayne's manner,
much like we saw it in thebeginning of this episode. I think

(49:42):
the government does not mess around whenit comes to eradicating these colts and other
sects that exist throughout the country.And I'm pretty sure Christine was held up
by a marine or a government official. Remember the swat team, what have
you? And Tommy gunned him down. I'm about eighty percent sure on that.
So Uh. The PB and Jsandwich, Mike, you think is

(50:02):
just a nice little wink and anod, but doesn't mean anything. Jack,
You're the crazier of the three ofus, and you think I'm calling
it now? The final scene ofThe Leftovers, the final scene of the
season three will there'll be a dogsitting in the White House calling it right
now? I look at as awink from a Damon and crew. Damon

(50:25):
has a pretty good sense of humor, um, and I would side with
Mike on this one. I thinkI'm gonna be right. Kevin gets home
after all of this, uh,and Mary and Noah are there with Nora
U. Mary tells Kevin Hurt andNoah are going back to Mapleton Forever.
Mary tells Kevin that Matt is writinga book that features Kevin prominently um.

(50:50):
Kevin's not too happy. He goesto confront Matt. Michael was there.
Kevin asked Mike to leave. Mikesays he knows Matt Um. John arrives
to bring supper when Kevin tells himabout it. John's like, oh,
and uh, Kevin goes, oh, that's all you've got, um.
And then there's kind of this coolscene with John. I shot your point
blank and you know, uh withyou you came back um, And it

(51:13):
was kind of how they had thelight coming through the church and how as
he was walking it was it wascinematography was really cool in that scene.
Um. Uh. Then so uh, Matt brings up drowning, trying to
drown himself. An earthquake saved him. And then Michael brings up drinking poison
and coming up from the ground.Um, you know, and Kevin says,

(51:34):
you know, he's not Jesus.Matt says he isn't, but the
peer doesn't hurt. Kevin doesn't likethat too much, tackles him. John
breaks it up. Michael gives himthe book. Matt is concerned because there's
only one handwritten copy of this bookof Kevin. Um. Kevin goes out
to what looks like a charcoal grillum to throw it into it. UM.

(51:54):
And it was kind of weird becausehe's walking out there's other people and
it looked almost just like static,like the even moving and they're looking up
at the sky, and at firstI was like, this is weird.
It's kind of like weird Twilight Zonesituation he's in at the moment, but
then as he's trying to throw itinto the fire, he pauses and stops
before he does it. He looksup and he sees sky riding and it's

(52:15):
saying thirteen days to go, whichis what the people were looking at.
And we see a white dove flying, not the best CG work we've ever
seen. We then see it kindof pans in the sky. There's more
white doves flying, and then theykind of come down to this cage.
It's like a carrier pigeon of somesorts. Older woman takes the dove with

(52:36):
a message similar to our eighteen fortyfour scene that we opened up with,
and throws a message in a buckets, which doesn't seem to care about that
too much. She takes the cagesof these birds on a bike, same
one as Norah's before baby, andtakes it to Mary's Anglican church. It's
an Australian nun and asks Sarah ifthe name Kevin means anything to her,

(52:58):
pans to her face. It's anolder Nora, and she says no,
so damon bringing back to flash forwardshere foughts as we close out this episode,
so let's start with the eponymous bookof Kevin my favorite Broadway musical at
this point. Hello, my nameis Norah Durst. So I think that

(53:22):
this is a very interesting reveal becauseMatt Jamison. I'm gonna make another Bowl
prediction. This might be another Mikebloom branded hot take. I feel like
we're going to see a malevolent sideof Matt Jamison this season. I think
he's shown signs of it in thepast. Let's remember in his very first
big episode, season one, episodethree, he beat a man either nearly

(53:45):
to death or to death because hetried to carjack him and take his money.
I think Matt could show some tendencieswhere if he's driven to do something,
he's going to do anything to getto that point. To the point
where Mary, he says, Matthas has basically had me under lock and
key. He has not allowed meto leave the town in three years now.

(54:06):
That might be Matt's big superstitious connectionto jardin that you know it was
because of miracle that Mary woke up, and if they leave jardon, she'll
fall apart. But to have himbe so paranoid as to not let her
leave the town in three years aftershe woke up. You know, she
was a prisoner in her in herown body for several years. Now she's
not a prisoner of her body.She's a prisoner to the rest of the

(54:27):
world, so she can't go anywhere. Is a little scary to think about
the point of where this woman wholoves him to death is just willing to
take off and leave at a moment'snotice, and for him to almost be
accepting of that is a little offto me personally. Yeah, it's hum
On one hand, I was withKevin on the man. He like,

(54:47):
you know, took care of herfor three years. He loved you,
he took care. But also likewe haven't seen the past three years and
if he has been almost you know, so repressive or oppressive, I can
see the need to want to getout. Um, But I uh,
for me that I feel like italways comes from a good place for mat

(55:08):
But you know, there's there's alot of horrible things that people have done
from a good place. That's alwaysbut that's always done things to the extreme.
Yes, where he's a full onbeliever, right, he believes and
then Mary finally gets to speak,and then she wants to leave. So
I don't I don't get that theyjust couldn't afford Janelle Maloney. I think
they paid for too many episodes haveheard just you know, winning around.

(55:30):
We could have got anyone to playyour part. So anyway, by the
way, speaking of the Book ofKevin, Lorie is going to be so
pissed that she could not get abook deal for her own story, but
her ex husband has already gone adeal in the works without his consent.
I mean, that's just everything justfalls into Kevin Garvey's lap and being added
to the most popular book of alltime in terms of sales. So um,

(55:53):
that's yeah, that's a that's abig slap in the face. I
am glad they did comment on Kevin'suh Kevin Kevin because Matt had a beard,
John had a bed n I goldbeards last time we saw him.
Well, as we talked about inthe previous show, it's twenty seventeen and
beards are in Okay, Can wetalk about John Murphy now looking like he's

(56:16):
an extra from the movie Hair.He's just like he's he's the hair,
he's got a little bit more ofan afro, he's got the bigger beard.
You know, he's wearing the collarlessshirt. I feel like this is
a totally different John Murphy from whatwe saw in the previous season. I'm
very excited about it because John Murphymight have been one of the most interesting
characters from season two. I thinkhim and Erica were like my two MVPs

(56:37):
for the season last season. Soto see him undergo such an interesting change
in philosophy, maybe part of itis LORI maybe it's, as he said,
he's starting to assign meaning two thingswhere he was so adamant about doing
that, not doing that beforehand,because he's just holding onto this belief that
his daughter is out there somewhere andhe needs something to sort of throw his
beliefs behind. I'm not entirely sure, but he's the one I feel like

(56:58):
we need to watch as well.I think we're gonna we'll see, you
know, John Murphy maybe turned tothe to the light side of the force
as Matt decides to go the AnakinSkywalker route and turn to the dark side,
Well, I think he didn't.He say I think he believes his
daughter's alive because of how Kevin's isstill alive even though he keeps dying,

(57:20):
he keeps coming back. I thinkthat's why I think he did he say
it in the episode? Am Ijust dreaming that? I thought he?
I thought he said something to thateffect when he could I shot you in
the chest. That's why I believe. Yeah, No, I mean he
saw that, and I think butif you look at it, we don't
know what happened with Erica and thenbut they were kind of on the rocks
any because she was getting ready toleave, right she had this money.

(57:43):
So I mean, if we're justthe Okham's raiser, the simplest answer there
is maybe she's just believing, um. But for him it could be,
you know, the thought of losinghis daughter again. Um. And this
is kind of where he's at now. Plus you know he's feeling groovy with
LORI. You know, now it'snow the world's supposed in in thirteen days.

(58:05):
But we know the world doesn't endbecause we see Nora and older Nora.
Yes we do. Or is itjust everyone everyone around Nora's departs,
because that's what happens when people aroundNora or could this be the older version
of the woman from the opening scenewho is an ancestor of Norah Durst as
well. It could very well bea flash forward, but it could be

(58:28):
a flashback. It could be aflash side away. It's concerning that this
woman is apparently named Sarah and doesnot know who Kevin Garvey is. There's
just so many questions that got askedin these last like one minute of the
Leftovers, which is really going toopen a Pandora's box of possibilities. Will
we get to this point eventually?Will this explain be explained? Will this

(58:49):
not be explained whatsoever? And it'lljust sort of be left as a tag
on the end. I'm hoping it'snot the latter. I believe Carrie Couone
again did say in an interview thatthings were going to be wrapped up pretty
succinctly and in the satisfying method,So hopefully this will get explained. But
still, what a way to endthat first episode by just throwing out this
lure, this is what's going tohappen to one of your characters, and

(59:10):
seeing where it goes from there.I'm intrigued to note from you guys,
who did you initially think this personwas when we only saw the back of
their head for like a full minute. I know, I didn't think Nora.
I was kind of going through allthese your people in my mind and
I just I didn't until they showedNora's like, oh it's Nora. I
I thought it was a god aguy. I thought it was a guy.
I thought it was Papa Garvey.That exactly That's what I thought.

(59:35):
I'm really going, Okay, Igo, why aren't they showing him?
I kept say, why aren't theyshowing because you, like I said,
they see the gray hair and stufflike that. I go, huh.
But then when they when I finallysaw, I didn't see that. I
never saw that coming, even thoughI spoiled myself. Okay, uh yeah,
UM, but yeah, I'm excitedto see you know um, and

(59:59):
especially with them Ryan this gospel andeverything, and in the nun kind of
referencing do you know Kevin so uhwhatever Um this gospel was, that did
it, did it get added orbecome a new religion? Um? And
that people follow um? And thenun asking it the way she did though
didn't make it seem like you know, there's this revolutionary changed to to Christianity.

(01:00:22):
Um, or maybe it was becauseshe's asking about Kevin. So there's
just there it it so it makesus ask a lot of questions that we
don't. You just asked the whatis she asking? Do you know Kevin
or the Book of Kevin? Doyou know? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
it's like, uh, do youaccept Kevin is your Lord and Savior?
You know? And Sarah's like,I don't know, So now I'm

(01:00:45):
there, don't think about I didn'teven think about that way. Yeah,
it could have been another Book ofKevin. Um. And you know it's
an Anglican church and you know soChurch of England. Um. Very simple.
What's uh? Is Matt an episcopal? Uh? Priests? Yes,
yes, Episcopalian because they ask hisdenomination in his other big episode in season

(01:01:07):
two, and I believe that's thedenomination that he gave out. So the
it's Episcopal in the United States,it's Anglican everywhere else, So that could
be connected um as well. Whoknows? Who knows? Um? Uh,
Well, we'll we'll just have towait and see the subreddits. We're

(01:01:30):
going strong. Uh do you thinkuh? West World seemed to be uh
solved so much in the reddits andsub reddits, so much so that apparently
the plot of season two was figuredout and uh, reddit and the creators
are ticked off about it and rewritingbecause of that. Um. But do
you think we'll see the same forLeftovers or do you think Damon's better at

(01:01:54):
covering his tracks? As far aswhere the story's going to go, we
could have no no clear ending.I don't know. I mean, who
knows well the saying it's gonna bewrapped tight, tightly, wrapped up when
it's all done. But in termsof people figure out they said about loss
and they're still angry people. Well, the way they figured out, you

(01:02:15):
know, the whole uh, themultiple storyline timelines and man in black who's
a man. No, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not fighting it.
I'm just saying there are some peoplethat were you know, you know,
they're angry people out there. Iguess we'll see. I'll have to
wait and see what Mike. No, I'm just thinking that that's the sound

(01:02:38):
of silence. To quote Simon andGarfu didn't have a real impression here on
the Leftovers from seasons two to three. Yeah, my only thing is that,
you know. I feel like inseason two, I was not on
Reddit at the time, but Ifeel like there might have been a few
people that called on to this ideathat Eve and the other girls might not
have departed, that they might havebecome a part of the guilty rem But

(01:03:00):
this Nora reveal is such a surpriseout of left field that I feel like
it'd be tough to come up withan explanation at this moment. I think
as we cleep, as we creepcloser to episode eight and the eventual end
of this series, things might startcoming together and that we could parse out
a reasonable explanation behind it. ButI honestly, as many people as there

(01:03:20):
are on the Internet, I reallydoubt that somebody has already figured out to
the point exactly what's going on.There's just two little evidence at this point
to really show anything. Now,do you think it's something that we saw
the final scene we saw for seeepisode one of this season? You think
they're gonna answer it on the finalepisode of the series, the final episode?

(01:03:42):
All right, I'm gonna make acomparison here to Breaking Bad. So
for those of you that have notseen the series and don't want to be
spoiled to now here. This seemreminded me a lot of Do you guys
remember I think it was Breaking Bad. It was the first half of season
five. I think started with WalterWhite, who now had a beard and
a full head of hair, pullingup to a diner and getting breakfast on
his birthday. And then he opensup the trunk of his car and he

(01:04:03):
had like in Ak forty seven init or something, And eventually they did
get to that point, like acouple of episodes from the end, I
could see something very similar happening inThe Life Ever Break and Ben did that
a few times. I mean,yeah, yeah, the plane was a
big one. I do. Ifeel like this was a big example though,

(01:04:25):
of like at the beginning of yourseason, you show this event that
happens in the far future, andthen you showed the events that lead up
to It's almost like media res inthat regard. So I could definitely see
leftovers going that route. Either Idon't know if they're going to go through
as many years to get too oldNora or whether they just say, like,
hey, here's how Nora got tothis desolate wilderness in Australia. And

(01:04:45):
then she lived in the rest ofher days as Sarah. You know that
that might be an option to againbecause it was presented in such mysterious circumstances
at the tail end of this episode. There are so many possibilities at this
point you really can't roll out anyof them. Yeah, I agree,
I agreed. Well, needless tosay, I think this season UH is

(01:05:09):
living up to the fantastic second season, and according to the critics, it
definitely does. I'm excited to seewhere it goes. I'm so I'm so
happy they decided to do a thirdseason. I do it, do it,
do it, do it, don'tdon't be afraid, UM, but
we'll be excited to see and podcastsalong the way. UM. Well,

(01:05:31):
now it's time to get into yourfeedback. We have two phone calls.
We'll start with that, UM,and then we'll get into an email.
Let's go to the feedback Listen.Hey, Jane Jack, it's Michael calling
from Los Angeles. I just wantedto call in about the latest Left Hovers

(01:05:53):
episode. UM. Actually, goingback to last season, the final potastic
did us the two other podcasting groups, the Guilty Remnant, UM getting the
other name? Anyways, Um,it was just really cool to hear you
guys podcast with them because my girlfriend, who had never heard of Jack and

(01:06:17):
Jack, knew those other two podcastinggroups, and so it was kind of
coming full circle to listen to allthree groups podcasts together and she had heard
the other two. I'm curious toknow what you guys thought about this episode.
I feel like, Um, ifeel like it's very interesting to see

(01:06:41):
Kevin trying to kill himself over andover, and I'm curious to see how
Norah gets to that point where shelooks very different and delivering doves to nuns.
Yeah, the promo at the veryend is very intriguing to see kind
of where Michelle might be going,and a part of me as a last

(01:07:04):
an, it's really excited to bewhat Damon Lindeloff will come up with and
hopefully we redeve himselves in a lotof people's eyes who didn't like the Lost
An now it even though I wasfine with it. Anyways, Uh,
hope you have a good show.Looking forward to hearing it all right,
thank you for the call. So, Michael from Los Angeles, what do

(01:07:26):
you guys think? Well, first, Um, the Crossover podcast is a
lot of fun. It's always funto do that with the you know,
other podcasters kind of that podcast ofthe same show, because every show brings
such a great unique perspective, andit's nice to kind of come together and
break bread with our podcasting bread.But I understand, though, Michael,
your girlfriend has listened to the othertwo podcasts but not us. We're we're

(01:07:48):
old Jack, We're like we've beenpodcast about TV shows for over a decade.
You know, people know, I'mjust saying. I'm just saying,
she just she heard of them,but never she'd never listen to us.
That's where you brought in Mike Bluehim to cater to the Millennial podcast.
That's right, I'm on fleek.Um. I'm just surprised they're still together.

(01:08:11):
I just don't. I just don't. I think that would be the
breaking point for relationship. Really,that would be I would I would think
that would be it. I'm kidding. So, you know, the the
end of Loss kind of tormented Damona lot, and and and I think
unfairly sob I think he he tookon a lot of pressure for that,
or on a lot of fights overTwitter. Quit Twitter because of it,

(01:08:32):
um, which which was ridiculous becausehe was funny on Twitter. So one
of the one of the things thatI think Damon Lindelof has done well in
his career is kind of writing,uh, these story arcs or characters where
they kind of redeemed themselves in theend. Will this season be Damon Lindeloff's
redemption story arc? Um, I'mgonna say yes, I have full confidence

(01:08:55):
in him. Yeah, I said, you want to try it? Jack,
Sorry, I said I I saidI was afraid for him. Do
you know how angry people can be? Sorry to jump over? No,
No, no problem at all.I mean I do feel like again,
we'd be getting so much press fromthe cast and crew about how enjoyable this
finale is part of me wondering ifthey are overcompensating concerning that, Yes,

(01:09:18):
the other big project that has Damonmint Lindeloff's name linked to it might have
produced with in the case of somepeople and unsatisfying ending. I'm actually in
the category of our caller as well, and that I did enjoy the Lost
finale, though I'm probably in aminority there. I think, you know,
there's a lot writing on him toreally close out the story well.

(01:09:38):
But I have trust. You know, if we even counted the season two
finale as the finale the series finallyhave the leftovers. I thought that really
ended the series if it needed to, in a really fantastic and poignant way.
So I have full confidence that witheight episodes, he's going to make
this ending even better. And that'sjust me being an optimist in life,

(01:09:59):
but I really have confidence in Damonhere. Well, at that point,
they didn't know if they were comingback for season three, right, they
didn't know if they had it.Yeah, so I thought it was I
thought it was perfect. I justthought, well, and I think I
think Damon's learned from you know,if you want to call them mistakes of
laws where um, you know,the whole time that he pot he he
podcasted, him and Carlton podcasted aboutthe show and would talk about the show

(01:10:23):
after each episode. Um, andit was and the go ahead. Sorry
loss was unfair. I mean,it was just it was. It was
it was a new it was anew world. It was it was a
show that people picked apart. Seewe talked about I'm saying by seat,
but there was there was no wayThey're gonna please everybody. There was no
mistake I think they learned was likein you know, the season two seas

(01:10:45):
three, like when they would dothat podcast and they would say like,
don't worry, we're gonna have You'regonna have answers to all of these things.
Um. And then for those likerabid diehard fans for all of these
mysteries, they're never gonna be ableto answer. And again I could,
I can go back and kind ofyou can answer just about every thing that
people thinks think our plot holes.Um. But no, not that it's

(01:11:10):
silly. Um. But I thinkin this show, um, it's it's
been very straightforward with you know,like with the departure, Like it's like
we're not going to answer why thathappened. You're not going to get answered
for it. Do not go don'tgo into the show thinking you want to
get the answer to why they alldeparted or what made them depart. Yeah,
they said they said that. Ithink before the episode aired they did.

(01:11:31):
Um. So I think there islessons learned there in terms of what
he's done with this show, um, and how he has constructed it by
but also making it uh still havethat UM. I think something that Damon
explores in all of what everything thatI've seen him do is this. Uh,
there's there's a lot of religious subtextsUM and uh you know, creationism

(01:11:56):
and and all these kinds of thingslike uh with UM forms in kind of
the creation of our species. UMwas brought up in that and in this
show. UM, you definitely seehim exploring you know, these different ideas
of faith UM and organized religion andUM. So I want to think he's

(01:12:18):
from lessons and two. UM.I think he's already had the successful ending
to the show, like we've talkedabout with season two. UM, and
if the indication from the reviewers andknow what I've seen so far season three,
UM, I have no doubt thathe'll be able to land that plane.
Is Frank LaPete is flying that ending, then it's like my plane joke.

(01:12:42):
Um, Jay almost killed him,oh lapidos So yeah, actor,
yeah, UM, all right,we have another call. Let's get into
it now. Hey, Jay andJack and Mike. My name is Scarlett.
I've been so excited for season threeto come, and the first episode
did not disappoint. I've been rewatchingthe episode today and I'm just so impressed

(01:13:02):
by the opening scene where the womanfrom eighteen forty four wants so desperately to
be taken in the capture. I'mactive on the leftover sub credit, and
a few people have posted that thescene is based on the Great Disappointment of
eighteen forty four, which eventually ledto the development of the Seventh Day Adventists.
Again, the number seven comes upin this episode. But there are

(01:13:24):
a few interesting things about the scene. One, it draws parallels to this
woman's face and her world, wherethe community is anticipating a departure situation and
it never comes. On the contrast, there's the world of the Garves,
which had people disappear in the departureand nobody anticipated or wanted it. The
leftover trailers keep alluding to this ideathat they're expecting a large blood. I

(01:13:45):
don't know if it's a spoiler,I'm sorry, but it's in the trailers
or some kind of end of theworld which is in the episode on October
fourteen, seven years from the actualdeparture. But maybe it'll be like this
woman's world where people anticipate the endand it doesn't happen, because it never
really happens when you anticipated. Anyway, My favorite part of the scene is

(01:14:05):
the fact that at the end,when she's left standing alone in the rain
waiting for the rapture, being mockedby her neighbors, she walks into the
church and lays down with what Ithink are corpses that are likely to be
buried. That's my interpretation, andif I'm right, maybe it's a foreshadow
about the fate of the Guilty Remnant, which happens seconds later. Regardless of

(01:14:27):
what those bodies were, I interpretedas the woman being some kind of like
original guilty remnant, whereas the guiltyRemnant are a group of people who are
alone in pain, feeling left behind, and so is this woman. The
song during this entire scene was soupbeat it was creepy. Anyway, I
love listening to Rise, and I'vebeen enjoying your West World podcast as well.

(01:14:49):
So thanks for all your hard workand have a great week, I
think, all right, Scarlette,thank you for the call. So a
few things on that first. Ididn't point this out, but there was
so much affiliation with the number seven. Gets what seven rhymes with heaven and
hell and Kevin Heaven? There yougo. Really, I'm glad I'm making

(01:15:15):
an impression here By bringing up agroundbreaking theory that seven rhymes with Kevin Joan
Sesame Street here on the Leftovers podcast, I think Scarlett brings up some really
interesting points there. This scene,to me really resonated with the quote that
Matt says later, which is anotherhumorous moment, where he basically says,
in a round about way speaking,you know, if you come to me

(01:15:38):
but will not leave your family,you cannot be my follower. And Kevin's
like, oh did I say that. He's like, no, it's from
Jesus. Another really humorous moment,but I think it really represents not only
the struggle of this woman that wesaw in this first scene where her family
abandoned her, but she stayed trueto her faith. But that's what Lorie
Garvey went through, you know,she ended up avowing her Both her and

(01:16:00):
Meg ended up disavowing everyone that theyloved in order to join the guilty remnant.
You could argue and might be settingup what's going to happen with Kevin
here if he again is going tobe leading this sect that maybe he is
going to add the results have topush out everyone that he's just recently over
the past three years brought back intohis life in order to really lead entirely,

(01:16:20):
and maybe these other characters have todo so as well. Matt just
got rid of his obedient family orto become a follower of Kevin. It
seems so. I feel like it'sa really pertinent quote. I don't know
exactly if it's a direct ancestor ofthe Guilty Remnant, but like Scarlett said,
I think there are themes that holdof you know, groups of people

(01:16:41):
that feel that they're left behind andas a result they feel more callous and
independent in the world, which Ithink also goes to show again that these
groups come and go. You knowthat we have a group in eighteen forty
four that's only really talked about incomparison the leftovers that we have the guilty
Redman who quite literally get wiped offthe face of jard in Texas, shows

(01:17:05):
that, you know, these thingscan almost be flash in the pan,
but the ideals really resonate throughout.I don't know what to think about this
idea that she was going to laydown with a bunch of dead bodies.
I thought that was the remaining groupof these people, though considering how few
of them were left during that lastsermon. It could be a group of

(01:17:25):
casualties who you know, maybe theydecided to go, what was that group
of people who all wore the nikes, drank the poison punch that were was
going to come and take them away? Yeah it was Yeah, it wasn't.
It wasn't. Haley comment was like, uh, it was a hailbop
or something like that. Hail bobBob comment. Uh, yeah, it
was thirty nine of them. Ithink it was nice house. It was

(01:17:49):
interesting. If it was a masssuicide, it's a good it's a good
call out. I'll mean the nextclashback to actually follow that cult. I
first thought was that she was layingdown the next day bodies hmm. But
or even like, I mean,it must seem like mannequins, which again
in eighteen four heard didn't have those. But it just it did seem kind
of like weird. Maybe it wastheir only friends she could have, unless

(01:18:13):
if this really was the ancestor tothe gr they first came up with the
big season one plan of let's takemannequins of our family members and put them
in the houses with us. Yeah, that was nice for them to do
that. That was probably that wasprobably the worst thing they did. What
the whole I know, I don't. I mean, that was a pretty

(01:18:34):
bad one. I don't know howI feel about the the dead grenade in
the bust full of school children.I think that was the first sign that,
like Meg was a little bit off. The defend kids, get over
that. I'm just the whole thing. No, no, no, no,
no, no no no. Kidsdo not get over that. Okay,
it's like today you've been you justhave the guy go. You've been

(01:18:55):
pranked. So I just said somethinglike that. But no, I think
you your families depart, you haven'tseen your loved ones, and they bring
life like butt. I mean,come on, that was just that was
cruel. I forgot about the grenadepart that that's probably a close second.
Oh man. Um but yeah,and so her thoughts of it being kind

(01:19:16):
of the inverse of the uh thisthe people being prepared and not prepared.
Um, So is this flood gonnahappen or not gonna happen? I don't
think the flood is going to happen. I think something of a smaller scale
is going to happen in thirteen daysthat will drastically affect our characters. Interesting,

(01:19:39):
interesting, Jack, your thoughts.I think something again, something major
is gonna happen. I uh,maybe not a flood, but yeah,
something major will happen. It hasit has to. I mean, wouldn't
you think it have to? Imean, who knows? It could go
either way? And again last scene, uh kind of supports um Scarlett's theory

(01:20:04):
there and that you know, theflood doesn't happen because of the people because
you know, or maybe Australia waslike the loan area that was saved from
the flood. Who knows, butum, you don't know. As crazy
as Matt is and it's over thetop is he usually has his finger on
the pulse of what's going to happen, though, doesn't he? I mean,

(01:20:25):
for the most part, doesn't theyhave? And Michael seems pretty level
headed, right, He's not.He's not on the computer doing porn,
right, watching porn. He's youknow, he's yeah, writing the book.
Unless maybe Michael's division of the bookis for him to write the Kevin
Garvey fanfection section of it. Thatcould be it Kevin slid out of the

(01:20:46):
bathtub, his gleaming butt shining inthe light of the bathroom. Yeah,
so what what's what's the Kevin shippersthere? What I mean, there's a
there's a lot of different options theKevin heads, and then like Michael's just
taking like, oh, let's seewhat Kevin Garvey and Shrek would be like
if they hooked up. There's athere's a I don't know if you guys

(01:21:06):
realize, there's a very weird cornerof the internet, and there are many
weird cords with the Internet, butone in particular is all about like shipping
Shrek and Sonic the Hedgehog together forsome reason. Again, I have no
idea what recesses exist. In mind, I don't get out much. I've
never heard of this. Oh man, all right, we'll get Thank you

(01:21:28):
for the calls. If you listeningright now, Like to call in after
NeXT's episode or anytime about any ofthese episodes, even previous seasons, any
theories you have, questions, comments, and our theories. Let's call it
three eight, five, three hnine zero three to eleven, call all
any time. Let's go to theemails here. This email is titled the
Book of Jack Not really. Hello, so excited for the show and for

(01:21:50):
the podcast. I know there willbe a lot of feedback, so keep
it short kind of. Um.I have a glaring issue with Mike's watching
order of the first season. Thiswas on our preview episode where Mike said
starting with was episode nine right asthe first one, giving away a huge

(01:22:10):
piece of Laurie's reason for joining thegr and also seeing Patty as Laurie's patient.
First, if you watch the Garvesat their best before season, you
spoil a lot of those characters arcs. There is so much with the Book
of Kevin. I just want topoint out one thing about it and one
thing about what we see in theprevious For the season one, we know
Kevin doesn't destroy the book. Lookat his friends aka Apostles, Faces,

(01:22:33):
Michael, Manton, John when theyinteract. While he's trying to act like
he isn't a big deal, Ifeel like I can see that there's a
part of him that definitely enjoys theattention from those guys, as long as
they don't come right out and sayit. Not wanting to dive into the
Messiah thing full on, but Vanity'sa bitch. Another one is Tommy experiencing

(01:22:53):
what it was like for Kevin havingto watch his father go crazy after the
initial departure. Also in the previewswe see Norah leaving. Is she trying
to pull a scam that we havea se seeing her talk about before departing
herself to Australia with money a movietype U I would have worked and seeing
these people who fake to part screwup so I know we're nats go wrong

(01:23:16):
kind of thing. Money hidden onher body, lane a cargo crate shots.
This is gonna be fun. Interestinghere thoughts imitation Lego Ethan number four
m p S. I would likea new theme song. I wonder if
that was just for the first episodebecause eighteen forty four was so intense,
but the no new credit song thingwould be a strong statement in and of

(01:23:41):
itself. The Ethan all right,well, I guess Ethan has now earned
a new enemy in me. SoJack and I are allied to get there
we go. No, No,I think we think by after this season
the leftos Jay will also be ayes, we all will all be for
chance Ethan. No, I totallyrespect his opinion with about I'm playing I'm

(01:24:05):
playing the diplomat here Jack, Now, I'm not the international assassin. I
chose the diplomat outfit. I'm right, that's how you say it. I
mean, I think that, yes, you do lose out on some of
those big reveals like Lori's baby havingbeen departed and all that, so I
understand that initial surprise. But again, I'm just gonna go back to my

(01:24:26):
main point that I think, interms of tone, the pilot is just
so damned dour, and I argueit's probably the worst episode of The Leftovers
in terms of it being very scatteredand there's not an modicum of joy out
of it, and that's not whatThe Leftovers is about. The Leftovers is
not a depressing show. It's actuallybecome a little joyful and a little hopeful

(01:24:51):
as well. I mean, theav Club in the review called this the
most hopeful show about the most sombersubject, and I feel like the first
episode doesn't there the necessarily represent that. I do agree there might be some
surprises that'll be given away later on. But that being said, if we
do have Patty is the first patient, you do get an interesting warp of
perspective there seeing her become the leaderof the guilty remnant. Yes, you

(01:25:12):
do have the mystery immediately revealed aboutwho Patty is in her relation to Laurie.
But then you sort of see,like, oh, this is fun
to have, you know, avictim of abuse and someone who was you
know, replying into Laurie to haveher then become Laurie Superior as an interesting
PowerShift. But again, my prerogative, totally understand if you don't want to
go in that direction, but that'smy opinion and I'm sticking to it.

(01:25:35):
There you go, good job,and I would agree because it's just it's
so tough. And again, Ialmost wish for Damon he could have just
used the book as a source materialand just kind of do his own thing,
because I think the first season followedthe books so like much that he

(01:25:56):
couldn't really break free from what thebook was trying to do. And then
in season two, where there wasn'tany book is like the framework for what
it should be. That's when theshow kind of really was able to take
on this this is different life UMthat I think made it incredible create a
season one which is like it wasan interesting story, is this compelling drama?

(01:26:16):
Um? And you know, interestingcharacters, but it was not UM
something that was necessarily an enjoyable goodtime. We talked about a hundred times.
That is the biggest problem with gettingtrying to get people into the Leftovers.
It's getting them through those first coupleepisodes because it is depressing. So
it's but that's why I say justskip season one to go to season two,

(01:26:39):
then come back and watch season oneand while. But that's why I
do like uh Mike's little machette editthere and putting episode nine. So,
um, I am not gonna fightwith Ethan here, but I want to
back up. I'm gonna say,I'm gonna say now that now that I
know Ethan's against it, I'm allfour starting on an episode time. Shouldn't
have showed your cards there? Anddo we have do we have anything about

(01:27:01):
his question? Slash thoughts here?I guess as a reminder. One is
that Kevin might give into some ofhis more vain impulses eventually and decides too
even though he had refuses it atfirst, to eventually give into the Messiah
complex. Two is that there mightbe some parallels with Tommy experiencing, you
know, a father going crazy.Granted and adopted father, but still what

(01:27:23):
we saw happen with Kevin and PapaGarvey. And the third one is,
you know, based on Nora andthe previews, exactly what she's doing in
Australia. Yeah, I mean youyou brought up you brought up the parallels
earlier in this episode Mike about throwingthe surprise party for Kevin's dad and then

(01:27:45):
in this episode throwing a surprise partyfor Tommy. So uh, it's It's
a good literary technique, is agood writing technique, and it would be
an interesting thing to play out forTommy's story arc if he gets a meaty
story arc this season. Yeah,I think. I think that's a big
if. And again we talked aboutthis with Jill. I'm gladorousing more of

(01:28:09):
Tommy because let's remember last season hehad two episodes, so did Laurie as
well, and you could I don'tknow, if he's gonna be traveling with
them to Australia, things might becomea little more upended there, so we'll
see exactly what Tommy's actions are thisseason. But yeah, it would be
really interesting since we really don't knowthat much of Papa Garvey. Hopefully we'll
find out more about him when theygo to Australia. But if we're starting

(01:28:30):
to see similar narratives carry out.That could be a very fun theme to
tackle of generations and does history havea habit of repeating itself? Well that's
a scene, Jack, What doyou think? I don't know more of
Do we want more of Tommy?I don't know. I don't think it's

(01:28:54):
necessary, but but there was alot of Tommy in season one? Yes,
and honest the Holy Wayne story waskind of like one of my favorite
things from season one. Yeah,probably one of the Yeah, I would
say the Holy Wayne stuff, asweird as it was, plus the Nora
and Matt stuff, it's probably thebest part of season one, honestly,
agreed, agreed one hundred percent.The twins the worst part and the twins

(01:29:20):
twins. Um, do we wantto speculate on a lot of stuff we
saw in the previews, which hada lot of the Norah's stuff that Ethan
brought up in this email, ordo we want to like let it play
out m maybe we should just tonot get too spoilery into it. Again,
we have a bunch of episodes movingforward, let's put a pin in

(01:29:40):
that as well and just maybe comeback to it if and when we see
exactly what Nora is doing. Ithink it's a really interesting theory to have
Nora sort of what be like aeither be a buster for some of these
fake departures or her staging her ownfake departure for one reads or another.
As we talked about before, itseems like she might be up to some
shady stuff behind the scenes and it'sgoing to lead her somehow. At least

(01:30:03):
we're assuming into her becoming this sortof dove cradling hermit in the wilds of
Australia. So we're not telling surehow we're gonna get it from point eight
to B, but this could bea possible explanation as to how we got
there. But does she does sheokay, if she's faking her own departure,
she's faking her own Does she leadbecause and she changed her name and
she says, I don't know Kevin, because everyone seems to die or disappear

(01:30:28):
when they're around her. That wouldbe only that would be the only reason
she would do it. We talkedabout him in the preview of this idea
that in the Lens episode that asas crazy as the theory was, that
Nora laughed it off when they weretalking about like the demon Asrael, that
this whole idea that she was alens in that she's not being directly affected
by things, but everyone around heris. It's almost like you know with

(01:30:50):
Mono, some people are carriers andare never affected by the illness, but
they're able to pass it on toothers who do get afflicted by the illness.
So Nora, as were result assort of could be in a way
almost cursing everyone around her. First, her family departs. The family that
she's in right now has a veryinteresting story to them as well. We
don't know what happened with Willie.There could be something in there as well

(01:31:12):
that would cause her to say,like, f this, I'm just going
to go off to the most remoteremote corner of the earth where I really
can't affect any person. Let metake my own death or my own departure
essentially to be able to get there. Yeah, right, that's true.
It's very true. Well, wellagain, we will put a pennant in
terms of a larger discussion because I'msure we will see it as the season

(01:31:34):
goes on. Thank you, Ethan. Look forward to more emails from you
as this whatever whateverse on one lastquick email here from Mandy. Question is
if you were Tommy, what wouldyour wish have been that Meg was still
alive. My wish would have beenthat my dad would have had the sloppiest

(01:32:00):
look up with Shrek. And itall got written down in a nice little
addendum to the Book of Kevin.We didn't even talk about it, he
taught. He looks at Nora.Did he look at Nora and say do
you want it? But the wish? Uh? Yeah, well no,
Nora kind of just goes like,whatever you want, honey, like it's
your whatever you want. But thequestion is does this wish get counted?

(01:32:24):
Considering that he blew out the trickcandles, which technically do not go wow,
does a wish get counted in thatperspective? I think it does.
It takes more work to do that. Right. Well, his wish was
his wish was for Jill, hesaid. When Jill guys like, hey,
my wish was answered, so thatit was his wish. But yeah,
well, what Nora's wish had been? Uh, maybe we'll find out

(01:32:46):
and we see whatever play she isplaying Passport to Australia, a bunch of
cash you constricted herself. Um,But any who, Thank you again for
your guys feedback. You can emailus at left over is jj at gmail
dot com just the letters j jUm. Sorry Mike, that email was
made before you join the show.Mine. I'm I'm part of the departed.

(01:33:10):
I am invisible, but I'm stilla living reminder, a new addition
unlike the departure to this podcast,or give us call it three eight five
three h nine zero three eleven.If you email the old last podcast,
email will pull it from there too. Now it is time to get into
the momentous occasion of each episode,which honestly, Jack has gotten so lazy

(01:33:30):
at crackpot theories they're usually somebody willfigure him out before it actually gets to
the crackpot theory. As a famousiTunes reviewers said, I'm just phoning it
in at this point, sou,but which which I couldn't have, I
couldn't argue with it. So Jack, are you ready for your crackpot theory
of the week? Yeah, allright, let me get the drump set

(01:33:54):
ready. Okay, Yeah, Um, I've been racking my brain this whole
this whole podcast, trying to comeup with something that WLD norah thing because
my theory was that, you know, it was a cheap theory, crappy
theory. But then Erica has umLily. I think she. I think

(01:34:15):
she took her. I think,But you know, looking back on it,
maybe Mike was right that Nora somehowgave her. But why would Why
would Nora give up Lily unless shewas afraid that something would happen to Lily
since she's around Nora or that,and Nora seems to be pretty sympathetic or
an empathetic person. Yeah, butyou just don't give a but you don't
give a kid away. So okay, yeah, here take this kid.

(01:34:36):
There could be a couple of thingsin this though we talked about the lens
thing. Let's also remember that Nora'smain storyline in the finale was some nose
ring laden woman is saying this isnot your baby over and over again.
Maybe that maybe that's sort of gotin Norah's head. Albeit it was under
dire circumstances where everyone was, youknow, charging the gate and Lily almost
got trampled on, which I wasactually a lyric of that song that we

(01:34:59):
were talking about the very getting theepisode ironically enough, But maybe Nora has
some thoughts after that of like,yeah, I guess maybe this really isn't
my kid, you know, Idon't know if she needs if she should
be raised by another. In thatregard, and considering the fact that I've
seen two jinx everything around me,Erica is clearly in a bad place.
We've seen scenes in season two beforewhere Erica seemed to actually have a really
interesting attachment to Lily. She mighthave her own emptiness syndrome going on and

(01:35:24):
is in our her own sort ofemotional place. Considering that at the end
of season two, John is scaredthat he's going to go home to nobody.
We see Michael is around, butwe don't necessarily know what their home
situation is like, we don't knowif Erica just left John behind after everything
at the Bridge. It could bevery possible that, in a moment of
need, with all those factors comingtogether, Nora decides to give up the

(01:35:46):
baby to Erica and say, thisis going to make you much happier.
Also, Kevin's not the most stableguy he is now, but he was
not always the most well, he'snot really he's trying to kill himself,
but he's not the most stable guyeither, So maybe that's it too,
because why why would Erica take Lily? Yeah, I don't know. I
don't know if eric who would beso dire or she you know, did

(01:36:08):
throw a rock through the window,but that was as retribution for what Nora
was saying about her. But shedoesn't seem as much of a vindictive person
to just be so aggressive to steala child. But then again, you
know, I'm convinced that she hasLily, but you don't. The question
is how she take her or wasshe given away? Yeah? I don't.

(01:36:31):
I think going with Nora's history,I'm trying to think this whole why
she's you know, why is shein on her bike with the with the
doves, and why should she takethe notes and just throw them in a
bucket? But she doesn't bring thethe notes with her. Who's sending her
the notes? Who's sending who's sendingthe notes? Is it Kevin sending her
notes? And she's just throwing themin the bucket? There were a lot

(01:36:55):
of notes in the so Jack notto let you off the hook, care,
I feel like you're trying to justyou're searching for some kind of well,
what is the crack pipe theory.I told what My theory is that
she that you know, well Igot ethan earlier, but that uh Erica
has Lily. How she has her? I have no idea, but I'm
convinced one she has and we'll findout this season. Do you want to

(01:37:19):
stick with that? I'm sticking withit, but I'm more concerned. I'm
more I'm more preoccupied with the wholeNora thing at the end, okay,
because I know we're not going tofind out till later on this season.
So that is Jack's crackpot theory maybeand I'm phoning it in. I don't
care. Uh, you're definitely skypingit in. Um, all right,

(01:37:45):
well that's and the skype didn't cutout. Uh it's yeah, that's right,
that's right. Um so uh that'swill do it. For this week's
Leftovers with Jay, Jack, andMike. Give us a call at three
or five feet or nine zero threeeleven Holly Talk and that's three eight five
three zero nine zero three eleven.Call anytime with the questions, comments,
and or give us an email toLeftover is JJ at gmail dot com.

(01:38:10):
Lets Overs Leftovers JJ at gmail dotdot com. Hey, there's an m
in there, Gmail, g Mikesomething um uh check out our rugside Jane
Jack dot com for all of ourother podcasts that we do. You can
also go to Jane Jack dot comslash iTunes that'll take you to all of
the other Jane Jack Productions podcasts,including a new one with UH one of

(01:38:35):
the fantastic hosts on this show,Mike Bloom and Jeremiah Panhorse. UH.
Fargo with Jeremiah and Mike. Mike, Mike, you want to plug that
show? Sure? So Fargo seasonthree is imminent at the time we're recording
this, it's only two days away. I am getting, as I said
on the preview, my full doseof Carrie coun this season, both old

(01:38:55):
and young. Kerry Coon is playinga major role in season three. It
seems like she is going to beour Marge Gunderson analog here as the feisty
female cop. So I'm super excitedto see that. Talking with Jeremiah Panhorse,
who covered the second season of Fargoon post show recaps in the past.
Huge fan of the show. Ifyou're not already subscribed, make sure
you go into iTunes. Do that. Were released a preview last week talking

(01:39:17):
about our thoughts on the series sofar, talking about a little bit about
what we're predicting from the cast andthe season. But I'm super excited to
get into that and to dive intosome coverage there because from what I hear,
it's going to be a crazy seasonof television as well. It's gonna
be cue. Um. I'm stilltrying to work on a song for you,
guys. It doesn't mean I don'tlove you, but I'm so.

(01:39:39):
It's it's do they do you hearhim say it's less than two days away?
I know, give me, justgive me. Maybe you can do
the theme from growing Things. Maybemaybe I'll do put the same amount of
work into the song as you didinto the crack fro theory Tonight, Jack
and actually let's let's let's be fair. Your songs have been that wait for

(01:40:00):
years now. Uh, this isjust like the laptovers Recamar Lost Recap,
West World Recap. Anyway, umU join our Facebook group, Facebook dot
Com, slast group, slash Jayand Jack group. A lot of fun
discussions on there, including posts forTV show discussions for a lot of ones,

(01:40:25):
we do podcasts about and more.Uh. Become a patron Patreon dot
com slash Jay and Jack and there'smany different levels we want to think,
especially Molly the Millennial, Tach fromTokyo and eckheart Richter for your contribution.
See a full list of all ofour patrons on our thank you page a
change jack dot com um. Ithink our next goal is a quiz off

(01:40:47):
between all of the different podcasters andthat goal is at um te uh one
thousand, two hundred fifty dollars andI think we're probably about like two hundrety
dollars short. But we did geta new patrons because on our all Patrons
feed. We also released a newpodcast, Owen and Burrus Barbecue. It

(01:41:10):
is a Star Wars podcast. Myfavorite title of any podcast ever, so
Owen and Burus Barbecue, It's aStar Wars podcast. They talked about the
new Star Wars trailer and kind ofgave a breakdown on it. Actually dissected
like every scene from that trailer.I haven't listened to it yet. Does
Nick hate the trailer? Nick kepthis opinions, dialed them back a little

(01:41:36):
bit, not needn't go full Nick. But the hosts of the show are
Chris and Boston from Married Man,Nick from Game of Thrones and Married Man
and Matt of the Three Stupid Guysand Matt has been kind of working on
this podcast for a long time andexcited that it is out. In coinciding

(01:41:58):
with the new trailer for The LastJedi, Matt was also on the I
think the longest episode Married Man episodeever. Yeah, almost three hours.
Good lord, oh my goodness.Yeah, that couldn't get this, couldn't
give him to shut up the controlout of control? Um, all right,
that's will do it? Actually,Mike, you do a billion other
podcasts. Any other one's going onright now? Yeah, there's a lot.

(01:42:21):
I cover RuPaul's Drag Race. SnNow, I'm going to be doing
Amazing Race this week as well.I did Dancing with the Stars last week.
I'll put it in the short termmessage because we've already gone pretty long
on this episode. Just follow meon Twitter at a Mike bloom tide by
plug all the great stuff I dothere. What do you think about the
Amazing Race? How they stole myidea? What do you think? Do

(01:42:43):
you like it? I will sayagain not to spoil too much of my
thoughts. I love the cast.I think that they did a great job
of casting individuals that work really interestinglytogether. The route itself is a little
bit to be desired from. Buta show that's so long in a tooth
in twenty nine seasons, you canalmost expect that the cast is what I
always come back for, and Ifeel like maybe my expectations were too low
coming in, but the cast hasdelivered on the entertainment front in my opinion.

(01:43:08):
Do you want to punch somebody?There's one person that needs to be
punched in the balls? Yes?Yes, what a what a? What
a drama queen? Geez man um, Well, that's uh, We'll do
it for this week's show. We'llsee you next week for the next episode
of The Leftover. Excited to talkabout it until then, Oslowego and goodbye

(01:43:31):
bye, bye bye