May 28, 2025 • 53 mins
Join us for our review of Andor's first arc, episodes One Year Later, Sagroona Teema, and Harvest.
No part of this recording should be considered legal advice.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joshua Gilliland (00:02):
Hello everyone .
We're back from Star WarsCelebration.
We've watched all of Andor andnow we're ready to talk about it
With me.
To discuss the first arc is theStar Wars lawyer?
I know your real name.
How are you doing tonight?
StarWarsLawyer (00:19):
I'm good you know been busy, but I absolutely
loved Andor season two.
Andor as a whole is phenomenal.
Joshua Gilliland (00:32):
I'm glad to hear that my mutual feelings.
One of my favorite charactersand just so well done to see a
boots on the ground level story.
That's a war story and I'm gladfor the spy element.
We actually see him dress upand not just look like scruffy
(00:52):
dude who out of a bunker.
So that's probably how Han wouldhave done it yeah, again, like
we've seen that it's like youcan't go to Coruscant or Gorman
and look scruffy, you have tolook the part of where you're
(01:14):
going.
Hence James Bond's not alwaysin fatigues.
The entire movie Hence Spy theydress up, but the first arc,
the three episodes, are one yearlater sagrona, tima and harvest
.
We were lucky enough to see oneyear later at celebration
(01:38):
during the end or a panel.
What's your thoughts on boththe episode and seeing it at
Celebration?
StarWarsLawyer (01:48):
It was just a beautiful episode.
I mean seeing it at Celebration.
We obviously got to see it on abig screen, so it felt like a
movie experience, and there'salways something different about
watching it with other StarWars fans I don't want to say
star wars super fans, but, likeyou know, at celebration you are
(02:10):
here for star wars, right?
So seeing people that love it,uh, seeing it with people that
love it just as much as you, um,but it was, it was a beautiful
episode.
Um, the from the, um imperialsort of breakout that cassian
does, and the little momentwhere it's like, uh, between him
(02:32):
and uh, what is her name?
Joshua Gilliland (02:34):
um, the, the tech that we never see again uh
I don't remember her name, but Ido believe strongly that the
best place to recruit for therebellion is from the imperial
ranks, with people going, wait,wait.
I did not sign up for this part.
(02:55):
How did I get here from wanting, you know, order after the
clone wars to, uh, you know, toa fascist government, because
it's again the united statesafter world war one?
harding was elected on thereturn to normalcy that yeah,
(03:16):
they didn't want to deal withall the horrible things that
they had dealt with during thewar and then the influenza that
followed.
So, like again, they wantedagain.
There was the roaring 20s andpeople just didn't want to have
to deal with uh, horrible thingsanymore.
Did you see her name?
Um and it's okay if the answeris no yeah, I can't find it.
StarWarsLawyer (03:43):
Um, imdb might have it, actually, since they're
usually pretty good about that.
Yeah, she did naya or nia.
Joshua Gilliland (03:51):
It's n-i-y-a, so maybe naya uh, yes, I have no
memory of that.
I thought you did a good joband I don't remember if they
actually say her name yeah, Idon't think they do.
StarWarsLawyer (04:03):
I think that's part of, uh, part of the like
the point.
But that conversation they have, like if I die tonight, was it
worth it?
And cast and this makes itworth it right now being here
with you in this moment likethat was such a powerful moment.
You've come home to your, oryou're coming home to yourself
(04:23):
yeah, all great stuff and again,cool flight suit.
Joshua Gilliland (04:29):
I'm not convinced that pie adventure has
a seat belt in it there shouldbe a five point harness the.
The seats in the back had seatbelts.
It doesn't look like cassian'swearing one all the time and I
find that strange, like theaversion to handrails.
Uh, but I I agree it'llencourage leaning no, no, none
(04:51):
of that.
Stand up straight and stay onyour toes so you don't fall to
your death.
Seeing any star wars with 2000of your closest new best friends
makes the experience better.
Absolutely Hands down.
There's something aboutwatching it Tuesday night after
work that I enjoy.
(05:12):
I prefer having friends overbecause, again, there's the ease
factor of you just come homeand watch it.
Maybe you make dinner, maybeyou order pizza.
Whatever you do, it's there foryou.
Flip side having the event withothers that shared dramatically
(05:34):
improves the experience.
StarWarsLawyer (05:37):
Yeah, so I would say it's three.
Well, no, I can't say three.
So two celebrations that I'vebeen able to see something.
So at Celebration Anaheim I gotto see the first two episodes
of Kenobi, but then I alsowatched Siege of Mandalore and
what you know, watching Kenobiwas like watching Andor.
You know it's something new,you haven't seen it before.
(05:58):
But Siege of Mandalore, that Iprobably watched at least four
times before.
You know, since it came out tothat, and watching it with a
bunch of fans like it hitsdifferent.
Joshua Gilliland (06:12):
Oh, you're muted with kenobi at celebration
22.
I didn't get tickets for it,but one of the other lawyers and
I watched it in my hotel roomoff the iPad and.
I had the HDMI cable pluggedinto the TV from the iPad, like
we could watch it that way, uh.
(06:34):
But yeah, there's again.
That was still fun and again Ithink we had, we had snacks, we
had pizza or maybe pizza.
Um, it was good stuff, likethat in siege of mandalore, with
whether it was anaheim or thispast one, uh, seeing it in
japanese this time was kind of ahead switch, but it worked for
(06:57):
me, and watching people whosereactions, who hadn't seen it
before, was very telling.
Pivoting back to you know the uh, one year later.
So we have cassie andimpersonating an imperial
officer, impersonating militarypersonnel as a crime.
Going on to any coast or anymilitary base requires id.
(07:23):
You have to be on a list toattend.
They scan you.
You don't just walk in andpretending to be a military
officer is a big no-no.
This clearly would put them inthe category of spy and there
are rules about whether or not aspy can be shot on sight or if
(07:43):
they have to be captured and ina military tribunal.
It's like those are activequestions when it comes to
spycraft.
We can get thomas to opine onthat more as our resident jag
officer.
Uh, I, I see you have a noteabout the stolen valor act.
Could you share, uh, yourthoughts on that?
StarWarsLawyer (08:06):
yeah, so you know the stolen valor act uh
talks about basically uh makingfraudulent uh representations,
about receiving um militarydecorations or medals or any
kind of um, uh signifiers.
So it's, I believe it's afederal misdemeanor, um, but it
(08:27):
falls under uh, the that I don'tknow, outside of the admirals,
the uh and and the moths withtheir little tic-tac uh
insignias, whether the uniformssignify anything, but from my
knowledge of stormtroopers youknow they don't have badges or
(08:52):
anything that marks it.
They'll just have, like youknow they'll have that one armor
pauldron and that's how youknow it's a sergeant or
something like that, so himimpersonating.
You know a pilot, you know thatcould there could be some kind
of insignia on there.
Joshua Gilliland (09:09):
Good catch.
We also have the issue of theftof government property.
It's a TIE fighter, a souped-upone that seems to have better
armor and a hyperdrive and adifferent power source and a
(09:33):
different power source the.
It reminded me a lot likefirefox, the clint eastwood
movie about stealing a russianstealth meg for a deep cut.
And granted, that plane didrequire you had to think russian
to fly it, so you couldn'tthink in English while flying it
.
Cassian doesn't have thatproblem.
He doesn't have to think inHuttese in order to give it
commands, but the controls seemreversed.
It's a funky thing to fly andhe's a skilled pilot and there's
(09:59):
no manual for it.
So everything's weird.
But it can take a beating,unlike other TIE fighters we've
seen.
But it's theft of governmentproperty.
And could you walk us through?
Theft of government property.
StarWarsLawyer (10:13):
Yeah, interestingly enough, there is a
case going on in federal courtin California right now where
this guy and it's a 2025 casethis guy allegedly stole three
humvees as well as a bunch ofother, uh, military weaponry,
and I was like, well, humvee isnot a tie avenger, but you know
(10:33):
it's a military vehicle.
Um, but it's all theft ofgovernment property, which is uh
, 18 usc 641, which says anyonewho embezzles, steals, pur,
purloins or knowingly convertsto their use or the use of
another or, without authority,sells, conveys or disposes of
any record, voucher, money orsomething of value of the United
(10:55):
States or of any department oragency will be fined or
imprisoned.
So I would definitely think aTIE Avenger would fall under
that category, especially sincethat seemed to be developmental
as well.
Joshua Gilliland (11:10):
It didn't seem like it was, you know, the
standard issue of the time,which may add in an additional
charge we just had the 30thanniversary of the San Diego
Tank rampage, in which anindividual stole a running
(11:34):
Sherman tank and drove itthrough town.
I remember when it happenedgoing like that's a rampage and
you don't see tanks on streetsdriving around doing the
reckless driving thing.
But that's one of those thingsthat jumped out to me with how
cassing was flying the tie notwell initially.
(11:56):
Yeah, he had to get the hang ofit, and even that was still a
bumpy flight.
So did you get a sense?
Because this TIE has adifferent type of power source.
It had an energy weapon that wehaven't seen on other TIEs and
other enhancements that thiscould have tied to the energy
(12:22):
program, and thus the reason youknow to get was it calcite from
gorman and they that was myinitial reaction like this is
going to be important somehow.
And then we never heard of itagain after the first arc yeah,
we never heard of it again andobviously it was.
StarWarsLawyer (12:42):
It was uh he, he took it off of Yavin, which we
know is where he ends up, yavinfor, yeah, and I do wonder, had
they, instead of doing twoseasons, they did three seasons?
Will we have heard a little bitmore about that?
That, um, but it was uh strange.
(13:09):
I mean, uh, it was.
It was kind of strange becausethere was like so much emphasis
on in the first season and a lotof other things generally
connected, uh, but that one gotleft by the wayside.
So I'm not sure yeah, I wasexpecting.
Joshua Gilliland (13:19):
I mean I'm okay with it not being connected
because me too like they can doa comic.
There's something else thatthey can talk about on why
stealing this prototype meansthat the empire doesn't build
another one.
Well, the hangar is destroyed Idon't think all the data is
destroyed, um, or if it is goodfor them on being thorough yeah
but uh, but we don't see it getreversed engineered.
(13:42):
We don't, at least I don't knowof that.
And if it did get reversedengineered, what was it in?
You know like that weaponsystem would have been a nice
package to put on other craft.
That said, we have destructionof government property.
Are we talking about the hangar, or?
StarWarsLawyer (14:05):
I think, well, I think you have the hangar, you
have the droid, um, and Ibelieve one of the ships got
destroyed as well.
So, yeah, so then you wouldhave that on there as well as,
uh, you know a couple uh murdercharges that they would slap on
cassian, I think.
(14:27):
Also think you would throw onthere, uh, not, not.
I mean yes for cassian, buttechnically he's an enemy
combatant, but for naya you havetreason treason, aiding the
enemy, uh, aiding insurrection.
Joshua Gilliland (14:44):
There's a variety of charges that that
they can be hit with.
So um and again, hope she gotout yeah and was living her best
life.
So let's pivot to the crimeagainst humanity that we start
seeing take shape as the maintheme of the season the plan to
relocate or eliminate gormansand, yes, eliminate.
(15:07):
So there's a secret meeting ina eagle's nest type location and
you have people from, like, theempire's ministry of truth I
know that's not their name, butyou have the ISB folks there and
you have military folks andthey're all doing a
(15:31):
brainstorming on how to get thisrare mineral from Gorman that
will most likely destroy theplanet.
So they talk about propaganda.
Uh, deitra's recommendation isyou need an insurgency that will
do the wrong thing at the righttime, and mining that's going
(15:53):
to make the planet unstable, soyou have a climate change issue
all at once.
I I did a tiktok on this.
This is crossing into crimesagainst humanity because you're
trying to eliminate us, anentire people, yeah, and it's
not necessarily a war crime yetbecause it's not war, right, but
(16:15):
it could turn into that.
So, um, my view is not a warcrime yet but could be If there
was armed conflict.
I think again, this is Thomasterritory, but I think that
would kick in.
But it's definitely a crimeagainst humanity when you decide
we're going to eliminate anentire group because we want the
planet genocide in the way thatinternational law has uh
(16:50):
defined it?
StarWarsLawyer (16:50):
um within the united nations, the convention
on the prevention and punishmentof the crime and genocide.
I think it could um fall undera few different ones, because
they have sort of five thingslisted under article two.
Um, you know, uh committed withthe intent to destroy, and
whole or in part, a national,ethical, ethnical, racial or
religious group.
I think you have at least threeof those in there.
(17:14):
So, killing members of thegroup, obviously that happens.
Causing serious bodily ormental harm to members of the
group.
Deliberately inflicting on thegroup conditions of life
calculated to bring about itsphysical destruction in whole or
in part?
Definitely.
Um.
Imposing metrics intended toprevent births?
No, forcibly transferringchildren of the group to another
group, also no.
(17:34):
So you know, there you have theintent, you have the mens rea
there, and then you have thephysical element.
Uh, even prior to well, they'resetting up the physical element
, even prior to Well, they'resetting up the physical element
prior to the Gorman massacre.
Joshua Gilliland (17:51):
Did you think it was odd Gorman only had
800,000 people on it For anentire planet to have that small
of a population, because thereare billions of human beings.
StarWarsLawyer (18:06):
I mean, if earth only had 800 000, we would be
spread out and there'd be largesections of the planet
uninhabited yeah, that thatmakes me think that at some
point, um, you know theycouldn't expand more, so their
population only grew as much asthey could allow.
Or it's a more recent, uh,settlement in in the galaxy, you
(18:32):
know, maybe it's only beenaround, for you know the
duration of the republic, sothat's only a, you know, a
thousand years or or something,maybe a little bit back into the
Old Republic.
But yeah, that is such a lownumber when we know the Death
Star had millions of people onit.
Joshua Gilliland (18:54):
It also makes me wonder is the planet small?
I mean, as we were talkingabout searching for life in the
cosmos, we're looking at superearths.
Is this something the size ofmercury, that that a smaller
population would make sense froma carrying capacity so they
don't overpopulate the planet?
(19:15):
But again, it looked.
I don't know if they just havea very rigid society that
doesn't grow, uh, but it just.
I thought that was just alittle weird Because I could
have accepted there are threemillion of them, or again,
billion makes more sense asopposed to.
StarWarsLawyer (19:36):
Yeah, we don't get a lot of populations thrown
out in Star Wars and I thinklike when Alderaan gets blown up
, it's like a couple billionpeople.
Obviously alderaan is one ofthe older, more, uh, older
civilized planets in in therepublic slash empire, so you
know.
But especially for gorman to beso quote unquote rich yeah, did
(20:02):
they purposely.
Joshua Gilliland (20:03):
We're going to keep it small.
Yeah, again, just people havegrowing families, so the idea
that people aren't gettingmarried and having kids is a
strange concept.
Or they're leaving, maybe it'sthat that too yeah, so we have
some rebel knuckleheads.
(20:24):
I, I cassie lands on yevon four.
We don't know that yet.
These rebels have lost theirleader, either killed or, I
don't think, abandoned.
Seems would be weird, butkilled makes more sense.
But the maya pay you know,there's, uh, there's the joke
(20:47):
that, uh, you know, the 18, 19year olds in the military, you
know, have the officers aroundas adult supervision and that
might be at play here.
There's no adults left and allthese people have low emotional
iq and weapons and short tempersand that's just a very bad
(21:09):
situation to be in, because noone can play well together.
And so you have the fact thatthey can't work together.
There's false imprisonment ofcassian.
They then start murdering eachother.
One is intentional.
StarWarsLawyer (21:26):
Then we get into involuntary manslaughter when
they don't know how the weaponson the tie work and uh we,
there's a body count with theseclowns and the fact that it all
starts off because the one guywho was probably rightly called
out for hiding during the lastbattle and his pride couldn't
(21:50):
take it because notice, no oneelse said no, he wasn't doing
that.
Everybody was just like yeah,and he just couldn't take it.
And then he doesn't swing.
You know he's not going toleave it to fisticuffs, he just
instantly fires.
Also going back a little bitbefore that, how they decide to
(22:11):
or maybe it was afterwards, yeah, after that when they decide to
settle their differences withrock paper scissors, pretty much
yeah and total submission.
Joshua Gilliland (22:21):
It's like what is this weird culty fight
they're gonna have?
StarWarsLawyer (22:25):
oh, it's rock paper scissors I thought they
were literally about to have auh, a brawl to the death, and
whichever one won was going tobe the leader.
That's what I thought was goingto happen, and then they did,
and I'm like what?
Joshua Gilliland (22:41):
Yeah, well, this is.
I mean, it wasn't a bro down,but it was.
It was weird, it was very weirdand like they're all going to
starve to death and die becausenone of them know how to keep
themselves alive, none of themunderstand how to stay safe,
collect water, how to avoid thelarge animals.
It just they have a craft shipand they can't play nice.
(23:07):
Food's ruined.
They don't understand how tolive off the land or animals,
and cassian opts not to leadthem and decides to leave them.
Uh, and that's the right call,because it's like you.
StarWarsLawyer (23:25):
You guys are nuts, um also, I believe the uh,
the woman that got killed wasthe only functional pilot, even
though she didn't know how tofight the Avengers.
So, like your pride literallyjust cost all their lives like
(23:53):
so beyond?
Joshua Gilliland (23:53):
I mean, it's why we have laws.
So yeah, it's part of what hasa civil society there the we
don't settle disputes byshooting each other and the
closest thing to a law that theyhave is rock paper scissors
yeah, okay, that's not a lord ofthe flies yeah, it's not a good
system of governance likethat's not.
You know, the woman in the lakegiving out a magical sword
(24:13):
better we just talked about thatyesterday or yeah, yesterday or
two days ago yeah, I mean again.
That would make more sense.
He's got the sword.
The magic lady gave it to himlike I am your king.
StarWarsLawyer (24:31):
I didn't vote for you lady gave it to him.
Like I am your king, I didn'tvote for you.
Joshua Gilliland (24:41):
Oh, again, that's how it can go wacky, uh,
but again like just people,unable to compromise, unable to
listen to each other, and thefailure to get along is how
people end up dead, and theyprobably all die yeah, I'd
rather fight about being rightthan actually fight to get
something done.
Because I have to be in charge.
Okay, big guy, when we go tothat big pyramid that looks like
(25:02):
shelter I don't know whythey're all dead and there's no
one living here anymore but thatwould give us a better chance
than waiting for the giantmurder cat to show up and start
killing people did you know itwas yapping before?
StarWarsLawyer (25:21):
you know, he took off did you know, which I
thought was really cool, becauseI didn't even think about what
planet is he on.
And then to pull off and to seethose, I was like, oh, it's
Yavin.
Joshua Gilliland (25:35):
Star Wars is really good at surprises and
while this isn't, like I am,your father type surprise, it's
an excellent surprise becauseit's like how do they figure out
Yavin's a place?
And apparently Luthan was usingit as a drop, and then the rest
of the rebellion decides tomove in after um, was it datuin
(25:58):
datman?
Yeah, uh, yeah where goes afterher speech.
So uh, oh, pronunciations.
So let's get to Sagrona Tima.
Okay, the entire thing of MonMothma effectively using her
(26:21):
daughter as collateral to get aloan.
StarWarsLawyer (26:24):
Yeah.
Joshua Gilliland (26:25):
Is disturbing on kinds of levels the daughter
wanting to get married and thesekids are 14 to 16.
They definitely under 18, butthey're teens and they look like
kids.
This isn't the 15 year old thatlooks like a dude.
This is a 15 year old thatlooks like a 15 year old for
(26:49):
both of them.
And the concept of arrangedmarriages and underage arranged
marriages is gross.
Yeah, there's some legalprecedent to underage marriage
with, like, parental consent.
You did some research, which iswhat you have here.
Oh God it just.
StarWarsLawyer (27:12):
Yeah, the overwhelming.
The super majority of states inthis country have allow
parental consent for childmarriages, and child marriages
are where one one spouse, Iguess, is under the age of 18.
It was legal in all 50 statesup until seven years ago.
(27:37):
It just became outlawed in mystate two years ago.
So it's not some archaicprinciple that's no longer
around.
Joshua Gilliland (27:52):
It's still here.
You think this would be a goodrallying cry for states to get
rid of this garbage and yeah, Isaid garbage because I don't
agree with it, and there arethose who argue like a religious
reason for it.
I just I find it disgusting andthis is something that should
(28:13):
join a shallow grave in historyof something that happened, not
something that happens Right.
StarWarsLawyer (28:19):
And while it's not very common, it's still an
alarming number.
A 2021 study showed from 2000to 2018, nearly 300,000 minors
got married.
Joshua Gilliland (28:31):
2018, nearly 300,000 minors got married.
Yeah, I understand if it's like1813 and life expectancy is 40.
Like I could okay Differenttime, not anymore, not when
people live to 100.
Like this is just just just no.
(28:52):
Yeah, we're not just notsomething a civil society should
be doing.
StarWarsLawyer (28:59):
And the fact that we saw oh go ahead.
Joshua Gilliland (29:01):
No, no, you first.
StarWarsLawyer (29:15):
We saw literally the effects of when you have
children making this sort oflifetime commitment, legal
commitment, emotional commitment, where Lita breaks down because
her groom-to-be doesn't want tohold her hand and now, like for
a brief second, she isrealizing the effects of it and
later on Mana is just like youdon't have to do this right, but
she has the romantic part oflove in her head, of what the
(29:40):
romantic part of marriage in herhead, not the nitty-gritty
day-to-day of what it reallymeans to be in a relationship
with someone for the rest ofyour life the season one episode
where she's attending almostlike a confirmation class yeah,
with you know, with otherchildren from chandrila that
(30:02):
that are on course on andthey're they're chanting
something about like a braid.
Joshua Gilliland (30:09):
I mean I want, from a writer's perspective,
going like, hey, let's come upwith a brand new culture where
they have a braid and it getscut at the marriage ceremony.
Okay, I mean creative,something different.
But I appreciate that you haveMon and Vel who do not look
(30:32):
happy that you know a teenageris getting married and
participating in a traditionthat they don't agree with
Because people change as theyage.
And I mean there are those whohave the lifetime love that you
know they fall in love in highschool and they get married and
(30:53):
they stay together, but thereare those who don't.
StarWarsLawyer (30:57):
Yeah.
It does make me wonder and Iknow we're kind of jumping ahead
is what happened to Leta postthis arc, Because we hear about
it in the next arc but we don'thear about her afterwards.
And I wonder, like, how doesshe feel after her mother leaves
(31:18):
the senate and is public enemynumber one, basically until luke
blows up the death star?
Joshua Gilliland (31:25):
uh, you know yeah, that's a great question
and and they leave something youknow maybe what's the time
difference between bb1 to ahsoka?
Is ahsoka nine years okay, solet's just say that she's would
(31:49):
have been married for like 12years by the time of Ahsoka.
StarWarsLawyer (31:52):
Something about that.
Yeah, Amon is possibly agrandmother.
Joshua Gilliland (31:57):
Yeah, and she could be late 20s, maybe 30, but
let's just say late 20s.
Would she have the same views?
Would she still be with thatguy, because he would look like
a dead fish?
Yeah, you're here to hold thescript, dude, and you know, like
(32:18):
he didn't seem into it, it waslike I have to do this because
it's what's done anyway.
That that covers that crossesinto episodes two and three with
the wedding that takes place.
But we also have Teva Tei Kolma, mon's lifelong friend, whose
(32:45):
wife's left him, and he'slooking vulnerable and because
of the vulnerability, he sayshe's feeling undervalued.
And this is opening the door toMon being extorted in a variety
of ways and then he getsdisappeared at the end.
And I I mean from a moralstandpoint no, it's wrong to do
(33:14):
that.
From a we don't need to all getshot by the empire and stay in
a state of tyranny.
StarWarsLawyer (33:22):
I get why yeah, and, and the thing is is, he was
all on board with helping Monwhen it wasn't affecting him,
but that's when it became realto him and then he's just like,
well, maybe I should look atsome other options.
Joshua Gilliland (33:40):
You know, because he was he, he lost his
money, he lost his marriageself-defense change if you're a
rebel in the Imperial world andtrying to not get disappeared in
the middle of the night.
StarWarsLawyer (33:59):
Well, I think it would be not for the Imperials
but for the New Republic,probably, Because with the
Imperials, that's just anotherpiece of evidence for your
treason.
Joshua Gilliland (34:12):
Yeah, as opposed to uh, I did this to
protect myself, so I had tosilence this guy so he wouldn't
be a problem.
That's a dark world, uh, tolive in.
Uh, would the new republic notprosecute people who?
I did this for survival?
I made a lifelong frienddisappear.
(34:34):
Well, Mon didn't but Luthanrecognized him as a threat and
had him taken care of adoptingthe tactics of his enemy.
So we have Bix go through oneof the most horrific storylines
in Star Wars history and I meanlet's just address it.
(34:57):
We have the creepy Imperialhitting on her, then a sexual
assault and attempted rape.
Self-defense is lethal force isjustified in self-defense in
cases of rape.
Is lethal forces justified inself-defense in cases of rape?
StarWarsLawyer (35:14):
And then following up with the Imperial
officer that came out afterwards.
you know I think it continuesbecause her life was still in
danger and this was I don't knowif you saw this brought up a
(35:35):
bunch of discussion aboutwhether sexual assault belongs
in star wars and I'm like it'sbeen there since 1983 yeah, like
you know, maybe if you're 12,you don't get what's going on
with java and leia, but honestly, if you're over the age of 18,
(35:55):
let alone just growing up today,with law and order, law and
order, svu being on for 25 yearsand shows like ncis and csi and
criminal, they all address it.
Joshua Gilliland (36:07):
It's been everywhere yeah, it's a, it's
dark I but it's real it's real.
I don't have a problem withage-appropriate star wars
because we can go from thespectrum of young jedi adventure
adventures made forfive-year-olds to to andor.
(36:31):
That's a wide universe ofcontent and different viewers.
Yep, now that are the you knowgen xers watching and are going
to be watching young jediadventures.
Most likely, especially if theyhave kids, they're going to be
watching them uh, do I want asix-year-old watching?
(36:52):
and or no, no, no, I think thisis more teen appropriate.
You know, uh, pg-13 type typematerial.
StarWarsLawyer (37:03):
Uh yeah, hard pg , most likely pg-13 yeah, your
TV 14 age range, and that's OK.
Star Wars has layers for areason, you know, the books are
generally darker than the thingswe see in the visual media,
(37:24):
because they can do that.
You know, it's this kind oflike the.
The stereotype for twi'leks wasthat they were all exotic
dancers.
Like it is a.
It is a reality in our worldthat sex workers get abused, get
(37:48):
sexually assaulted, get raped.
So you know.
And then not even talking aboutthe problem that, uh, the
military has, uh, with sexualassault, and the imperial
officer is, you know, a militaryofficial, and let alone when an
invading force, a conqueringforce, an oppressive force has
(38:09):
power over a population and canget away with whatever they want
, this will definitely happen.
Joshua Gilliland (38:18):
Oh, it's Imperial Japan what they did in
China and Korea during World WarII, and you know the Nazi
Germany was no stranger to thatlevel of cruelty as well.
And what the russians did tothe germans after you know,
conquering berlin, I mean,there's some dark, dark stuff in
(38:41):
history.
All of that aside, like this isthe age-appropriate star wars
that you want, you know like 14and up and it's.
I'm fine covering the topic, uh,even though I did feel super
creepy and horrible and didn'twant to see it again.
(39:01):
Uh, that said, yeah, because wehave child marriage and then
then assault and yeah, I meanthat's just.
And then assault and it's just,I mean it's just.
You know, it makes seeinggenocide of an entire planet go
okay.
StarWarsLawyer (39:18):
Right and I think it's.
People are like, well, I don'twant to see it.
I was like it's kind of thepoint, you don't want to see it.
It's supposed to make youuncomfortable, If you.
If it doesn't make youuncomfortable, that calls for
some serious self-reflection.
Joshua Gilliland (39:31):
Now, why didn't this freak you out?
StarWarsLawyer (39:33):
Yeah.
Joshua Gilliland (39:35):
All right, going from that, we have very
effective, interesting bad guyswith Deidre and Cyril the fact
that Deidre's a good girlfriendthat rips into Deedee in one of
(39:58):
the most effective dinner partyever seen.
And these are the bad guys.
And you find them compellingthat you have Cyril just getting
run over by his mom, who's hada rough life with her.
The ISB girlfriend who'stortured people for a living.
(40:19):
She's planning a crime againsthumanity and is going to go up
against, you know, the scarymother-in-law and takes her down
in the most brutal, effectiveway possible mhm, it does.
StarWarsLawyer (40:39):
I'm going and Cyril just retreating to the
bedroom and just laying flat outon the bed.
Joshua Gilliland (40:48):
Uh, you know the actor improvised that.
That was just perfect.
I mean likevised that that wasjust Perfect.
Perfect, I mean, like the bodyposition, it was just like, oh
yeah, like they've just how doyou handle that?
Brilliantly done.
But what Deidre outlines as acontract, not optional, so it's
(41:12):
a unilateral contract of this ishow things are going to be and
you're going to stop torturingus.
StarWarsLawyer (41:18):
It sounds like an extreme version of a custody
agreement.
You have these benchmarks youwill hit and then you will be
able to get some visitation.
That's essentially what it is.
That's what I thought of wow,yeah, uh which definitely
(41:40):
doesn't play into, you know,cyril, having mother issues,
mommy issues and going from edto mean it's a fascinating
relationship because it's.
Joshua Gilliland (41:57):
It's her getting hit in the head with a
brick and nearly killed by anangry mob, where she gives him a
chance afterwards and, uh, Imean it goes to the issue of
getting a concussion and meetinga guy which can result in
marriage in Padme's case.
(42:18):
Don't fall out of an aircraftand get married the next day.
StarWarsLawyer (42:24):
Yes.
Joshua Gilliland (42:26):
But this seems it's a complex relationship and
it's fascinating that they didthis with the villains and
they're not just like themustache-twirling, you know,
evil commandant type.
It's something far morethoughtful.
StarWarsLawyer (42:49):
I got uncomfortable every time I saw
them together on screen at anypoint in the series.
I just uh, it just made my skincrawl I.
Joshua Gilliland (42:59):
I didn't feel uncomfortable because here are
two introverts that probablyhaven't had a healthy
relationship before and I thinkthey're just doing their best
now.
When we get to the laterepisodes, there are things that
happen that are not okay, butlet's not get there yet.
But it is fascinating thatDeidre lays down the rules and
(43:28):
they're not goshable.
Don't come to my house anddrizzle fondue across the table.
Yeah, there's been a lot ofcommentary on it doesn't make
sense for Deidre to have been inan imperial kinder block,
because at this point the Empireis only 16 years old and she's
(43:53):
got to be at least 30 and beingin her kinder block doesn't mean
from birth like she could havebeen 15 when she went in and
yeah and and also just and I Ithink about tarkarkin in A New
Hope, where he talks about thedissolving of the like the last
(44:17):
message of the Republic is gone.
StarWarsLawyer (44:19):
It's like I feel like Detro, being so gung-ho
about the Empire, would notrecognize the Republic as being,
you know, anything worthmentioning being, you know
anything worth mentioning right,you know I was raised by the
empire.
I, you know I am the Imperial,you know, security bureau
(44:44):
captain or lieutenant orwhatever her rank is now.
So that that's how I took it.
She's clearly older than 19.
And, like you said she, youknow she could have been raised
in it as a kid.
But like she said she, you knowshe could have been raising it
as a kid, but, like she said,she was an orphan.
When did she become an orphan?
Right?
And we know, at least with thefirst order, uh, that they
weren't, uh, that theyconditioned their people.
(45:06):
I wouldn't be surprised if youknow they had some semblance of
that, some sort of education,training, uh programming, that
that they gave uh orphans undertheir care yeah, all plausible.
Joshua Gilliland (45:22):
but yeah, it's being raised in an imperial
kinder block does not mean sinceage two, right, and I mean she
would have been old enough.
Both of them would have beenold enough to have been kids
during the Clone Wars and thatprobably wasn't fun.
Now I thought, because Deidredidn't want the Gorman project,
(45:45):
that she could have been fromthere.
That lead was never followed upor talked about, so I think
she's from someplace else, whichmakes me wonder if she realized
.
Well, the plan for Gorman was abad idea and she didn't want to
be a part of it.
StarWarsLawyer (46:03):
Yeah, it could have been.
I felt it was two things One,she just felt like it was
beneath her, and then she alsowanted to get back to Axis,
because she had just been undera situation where you had a
(46:23):
local population rise up and shealmost died.
So to oversee another one orparticipate in another one she
may not have been too keen on,like, let me focus on my pet
project, axis.
Where is he?
Who is he?
I'm going to find him.
Let me do that.
I want to do that.
Joshua Gilliland (46:40):
I would like to avoid angry mobs in the
future, so it's not going to bemy career path.
It'd be like realizing you knowwhat?
I don't want to be a litigator.
I really like transactionalwork.
StarWarsLawyer (46:56):
now I'm going to do trademark applications like
that, yeah, after handling, likethe trial of the decade yeah,
it's just like.
Joshua Gilliland (47:02):
Nope, I hated this, like don't want to be part
of that world anymore, makessense.
You can see that happening andthat, other than some questions
about the wedding of where istheir underage drinking like?
Because we have all these teensrunning around on what should
(47:22):
be a like a high school party,instead it's somebody's wedding.
Is you know when we have momsgetting sloshed is?
Is there underage drinking atthis thing?
StarWarsLawyer (47:39):
I mean, is it a religious ceremony?
We know it's a deeply culturalthing, but is there a religious
to it?
Because that's exceptions, thatthat's an exception to our
national minimum legal drinkingat uh age.
Um, I think there's alsofamilial consent in in this
purpose as well.
(47:59):
So I think it might be acombination of those, those
things.
Or you know, maybe their legalage of drinking is 14 on tendril
, since they can get married at16.
Joshua Gilliland (48:11):
yeah, I could buy that because, uh, kids don't
get sloshed on communion wine.
I mean, I'm sure it's possible,but you know, having the symbol
of wine, you know, after yourwafer or bread, whatever the
(48:31):
service is doing like that's,that's different, as opposed to
you're toasting and throwingdown shots with mom um that just
seems way problematic.
My two cents, um.
Here's something I found superinteresting the actress who
(48:57):
plays.
Why am I blanking on her name?
StarWarsLawyer (49:01):
Vel's lover Cinta.
Joshua Gilliland (49:03):
Cinta.
She's also in Doctor who.
She's the current companion.
Oh, so yeah, because I had thatreal, because I had had again,
hadn't watched season one in awhile and in re-watching this
and currently watching doctor,who was like wait a minute, same
actress I know that face.
Yeah, it's like time.
(49:24):
So how cool for her.
You know you get the actors whoare in multiple big sci-fi.
You know tent poles uh it'slike you could be signing
autographs for the next 30 years.
StarWarsLawyer (49:37):
Yeah at a right.
Just just get on one of thestar trek uh spinoffs and and
hit the trifecta yeah, it's uh,and there are those who've done
it.
Joshua Gilliland (49:49):
Uh, throw in a marvel one, because there are
those who've done that.
I mean, you have, you know,david tennant, that's done.
Marvel doctor, who, obviously.
And star wars, uh, there areothers who, uh, you have george
takai, who's done voice work andthe clone wars, in addition to
all the star trek work, andavatar the the Last Airbender.
(50:14):
The Gremlins animated series.
He's one of the lead Gremlins,so there are those who are,
again, that's their career, butit's seeing people who are just
checking the boxes.
It's like give Tenet a StarTrek role now and box is checked
Right.
(50:34):
So, yeah, I just I think thatwas really cool, so, but it's
good stuff.
So that's the first arc.
We have three more to go andlook forward to being able to
discuss this more and, uh, lookforward to being able to discuss
(50:56):
this more.
StarWarsLawyer (50:57):
So when oh yeah, any closing thoughts about you
know our again, we bumped intoeach other twice in japan yeah
that those are random odds, likeimpossible odds, and we did it
twice yeah, I ran into nearlyeverybody that I knew that was
going to be there, except forone person, and I was there for
(51:19):
a day and a half that's veryimportant.
Joshua Gilliland (51:24):
Yeah, it's food line and we were going by
the um the hot toys.
StarWarsLawyer (51:29):
Is that what it?
Joshua Gilliland (51:29):
was the hot toys that was too busy to go in.
Yeah, you know, there werebooths I never bothered to go
into because it was just toocrazy lines were a menace at
this celebration.
StarWarsLawyer (51:45):
It's always something that's a menace at
celebration.
This one was lines, whether itwas lines for food, lines for
booths, lines for panels.
Uh, it was a bit ridiculouslast celebration.
It was, uh, the hallway to getto the different, like the main
hallway where, like, you enterthe uh convention center and
(52:06):
you're trying to get food oryou're trying to go to a panel
or to the halls where all thebooths and things, where it was
just it was that's where theyput the giant tie fighter and
like the 18.
So it was just, it was just uh,um, what, what are our cattle
in when you're, you know, likeall leading them to slaughter?
That's what.
Joshua Gilliland (52:26):
That's what we were all in yeah, this was, um,
I know to have have wateringsnacks, yeah, and like overall
positive experience, but therewere some bumpy elements, uh,
but we look ahead.
So, chris, so star wars lawyer,thank you and no problem and uh
(52:50):
, we'll be talking more and wehave three more arcs to hit.
So everyone, thanks for tuningin, stay tuned for more
adventures and, wherever you are, stay safe, stay healthy and
stay geeky.
Hello everyone .
We're back from Star WarsCelebration.
We've watched all of Andor andnow we're ready to talk about it
With me.
To discuss the first arc is theStar Wars lawyer?
I know your real name.
How are you doing tonight?
StarWarsLawyer (00:19):
I'm good you know been busy, but I absolutely
loved Andor season two.
Andor as a whole is phenomenal.
Joshua Gilliland (00:32):
I'm glad to hear that my mutual feelings.
One of my favorite charactersand just so well done to see a
boots on the ground level story.
That's a war story and I'm gladfor the spy element.
We actually see him dress upand not just look like scruffy
(00:52):
dude who out of a bunker.
So that's probably how Han wouldhave done it yeah, again, like
we've seen that it's like youcan't go to Coruscant or Gorman
and look scruffy, you have tolook the part of where you're
(01:14):
going.
Hence James Bond's not alwaysin fatigues.
The entire movie Hence Spy theydress up, but the first arc,
the three episodes, are one yearlater sagrona, tima and harvest
.
We were lucky enough to see oneyear later at celebration
(01:38):
during the end or a panel.
What's your thoughts on boththe episode and seeing it at
Celebration?
StarWarsLawyer (01:48):
It was just a beautiful episode.
I mean seeing it at Celebration.
We obviously got to see it on abig screen, so it felt like a
movie experience, and there'salways something different about
watching it with other StarWars fans I don't want to say
star wars super fans, but, likeyou know, at celebration you are
(02:10):
here for star wars, right?
So seeing people that love it,uh, seeing it with people that
love it just as much as you, um,but it was, it was a beautiful
episode.
Um, the from the, um imperialsort of breakout that cassian
does, and the little momentwhere it's like, uh, between him
(02:32):
and uh, what is her name?
Joshua Gilliland (02:34):
um, the, the tech that we never see again uh
I don't remember her name, but Ido believe strongly that the
best place to recruit for therebellion is from the imperial
ranks, with people going, wait,wait.
I did not sign up for this part.
(02:55):
How did I get here from wanting, you know, order after the
clone wars to, uh, you know, toa fascist government, because
it's again the united statesafter world war one?
harding was elected on thereturn to normalcy that yeah,
(03:16):
they didn't want to deal withall the horrible things that
they had dealt with during thewar and then the influenza that
followed.
So, like again, they wantedagain.
There was the roaring 20s andpeople just didn't want to have
to deal with uh, horrible thingsanymore.
Did you see her name?
Um and it's okay if the answeris no yeah, I can't find it.
StarWarsLawyer (03:43):
Um, imdb might have it, actually, since they're
usually pretty good about that.
Yeah, she did naya or nia.
Joshua Gilliland (03:51):
It's n-i-y-a, so maybe naya uh, yes, I have no
memory of that.
I thought you did a good joband I don't remember if they
actually say her name yeah, Idon't think they do.
StarWarsLawyer (04:03):
I think that's part of, uh, part of the like
the point.
But that conversation they have, like if I die tonight, was it
worth it?
And cast and this makes itworth it right now being here
with you in this moment likethat was such a powerful moment.
You've come home to your, oryou're coming home to yourself
(04:23):
yeah, all great stuff and again,cool flight suit.
Joshua Gilliland (04:29):
I'm not convinced that pie adventure has
a seat belt in it there shouldbe a five point harness the.
The seats in the back had seatbelts.
It doesn't look like cassian'swearing one all the time and I
find that strange, like theaversion to handrails.
Uh, but I I agree it'llencourage leaning no, no, none
(04:51):
of that.
Stand up straight and stay onyour toes so you don't fall to
your death.
Seeing any star wars with 2000of your closest new best friends
makes the experience better.
Absolutely Hands down.
There's something aboutwatching it Tuesday night after
work that I enjoy.
(05:12):
I prefer having friends overbecause, again, there's the ease
factor of you just come homeand watch it.
Maybe you make dinner, maybeyou order pizza.
Whatever you do, it's there foryou.
Flip side having the event withothers that shared dramatically
(05:34):
improves the experience.
StarWarsLawyer (05:37):
Yeah, so I would say it's three.
Well, no, I can't say three.
So two celebrations that I'vebeen able to see something.
So at Celebration Anaheim I gotto see the first two episodes
of Kenobi, but then I alsowatched Siege of Mandalore and
what you know, watching Kenobiwas like watching Andor.
You know it's something new,you haven't seen it before.
(05:58):
But Siege of Mandalore, that Iprobably watched at least four
times before.
You know, since it came out tothat, and watching it with a
bunch of fans like it hitsdifferent.
Joshua Gilliland (06:12):
Oh, you're muted with kenobi at celebration
22.
I didn't get tickets for it,but one of the other lawyers and
I watched it in my hotel roomoff the iPad and.
I had the HDMI cable pluggedinto the TV from the iPad, like
we could watch it that way, uh.
(06:34):
But yeah, there's again.
That was still fun and again Ithink we had, we had snacks, we
had pizza or maybe pizza.
Um, it was good stuff, likethat in siege of mandalore, with
whether it was anaheim or thispast one, uh, seeing it in
japanese this time was kind of ahead switch, but it worked for
(06:57):
me, and watching people whosereactions, who hadn't seen it
before, was very telling.
Pivoting back to you know the uh, one year later.
So we have cassie andimpersonating an imperial
officer, impersonating militarypersonnel as a crime.
Going on to any coast or anymilitary base requires id.
(07:23):
You have to be on a list toattend.
They scan you.
You don't just walk in andpretending to be a military
officer is a big no-no.
This clearly would put them inthe category of spy and there
are rules about whether or not aspy can be shot on sight or if
(07:43):
they have to be captured and ina military tribunal.
It's like those are activequestions when it comes to
spycraft.
We can get thomas to opine onthat more as our resident jag
officer.
Uh, I, I see you have a noteabout the stolen valor act.
Could you share, uh, yourthoughts on that?
StarWarsLawyer (08:06):
yeah, so you know the stolen valor act uh
talks about basically uh makingfraudulent uh representations,
about receiving um militarydecorations or medals or any
kind of um, uh signifiers.
So it's, I believe it's afederal misdemeanor, um, but it
(08:27):
falls under uh, the that I don'tknow, outside of the admirals,
the uh and and the moths withtheir little tic-tac uh
insignias, whether the uniformssignify anything, but from my
knowledge of stormtroopers youknow they don't have badges or
(08:52):
anything that marks it.
They'll just have, like youknow they'll have that one armor
pauldron and that's how youknow it's a sergeant or
something like that, so himimpersonating.
You know a pilot, you know thatcould there could be some kind
of insignia on there.
Joshua Gilliland (09:09):
Good catch.
We also have the issue of theftof government property.
It's a TIE fighter, a souped-upone that seems to have better
armor and a hyperdrive and adifferent power source and a
(09:33):
different power source the.
It reminded me a lot likefirefox, the clint eastwood
movie about stealing a russianstealth meg for a deep cut.
And granted, that plane didrequire you had to think russian
to fly it, so you couldn'tthink in English while flying it
.
Cassian doesn't have thatproblem.
He doesn't have to think inHuttese in order to give it
commands, but the controls seemreversed.
It's a funky thing to fly andhe's a skilled pilot and there's
(09:59):
no manual for it.
So everything's weird.
But it can take a beating,unlike other TIE fighters we've
seen.
But it's theft of governmentproperty.
And could you walk us through?
Theft of government property.
StarWarsLawyer (10:13):
Yeah, interestingly enough, there is a
case going on in federal courtin California right now where
this guy and it's a 2025 casethis guy allegedly stole three
humvees as well as a bunch ofother, uh, military weaponry,
and I was like, well, humvee isnot a tie avenger, but you know
(10:33):
it's a military vehicle.
Um, but it's all theft ofgovernment property, which is uh
, 18 usc 641, which says anyonewho embezzles, steals, pur,
purloins or knowingly convertsto their use or the use of
another or, without authority,sells, conveys or disposes of
any record, voucher, money orsomething of value of the United
(10:55):
States or of any department oragency will be fined or
imprisoned.
So I would definitely think aTIE Avenger would fall under
that category, especially sincethat seemed to be developmental
as well.
Joshua Gilliland (11:10):
It didn't seem like it was, you know, the
standard issue of the time,which may add in an additional
charge we just had the 30thanniversary of the San Diego
Tank rampage, in which anindividual stole a running
(11:34):
Sherman tank and drove itthrough town.
I remember when it happenedgoing like that's a rampage and
you don't see tanks on streetsdriving around doing the
reckless driving thing.
But that's one of those thingsthat jumped out to me with how
cassing was flying the tie notwell initially.
(11:56):
Yeah, he had to get the hang ofit, and even that was still a
bumpy flight.
So did you get a sense?
Because this TIE has adifferent type of power source.
It had an energy weapon that wehaven't seen on other TIEs and
other enhancements that thiscould have tied to the energy
(12:22):
program, and thus the reason youknow to get was it calcite from
gorman and they that was myinitial reaction like this is
going to be important somehow.
And then we never heard of itagain after the first arc yeah,
we never heard of it again andobviously it was.
StarWarsLawyer (12:42):
It was uh he, he took it off of Yavin, which we
know is where he ends up, yavinfor, yeah, and I do wonder, had
they, instead of doing twoseasons, they did three seasons?
Will we have heard a little bitmore about that?
That, um, but it was uh strange.
(13:09):
I mean, uh, it was.
It was kind of strange becausethere was like so much emphasis
on in the first season and a lotof other things generally
connected, uh, but that one gotleft by the wayside.
So I'm not sure yeah, I wasexpecting.
Joshua Gilliland (13:19):
I mean I'm okay with it not being connected
because me too like they can doa comic.
There's something else thatthey can talk about on why
stealing this prototype meansthat the empire doesn't build
another one.
Well, the hangar is destroyed Idon't think all the data is
destroyed, um, or if it is goodfor them on being thorough yeah
but uh, but we don't see it getreversed engineered.
(13:42):
We don't, at least I don't knowof that.
And if it did get reversedengineered, what was it in?
You know like that weaponsystem would have been a nice
package to put on other craft.
That said, we have destructionof government property.
Are we talking about the hangar, or?
StarWarsLawyer (14:05):
I think, well, I think you have the hangar, you
have the droid, um, and Ibelieve one of the ships got
destroyed as well.
So, yeah, so then you wouldhave that on there as well as,
uh, you know a couple uh murdercharges that they would slap on
cassian, I think.
(14:27):
Also think you would throw onthere, uh, not, not.
I mean yes for cassian, buttechnically he's an enemy
combatant, but for naya you havetreason treason, aiding the
enemy, uh, aiding insurrection.
Joshua Gilliland (14:44):
There's a variety of charges that that
they can be hit with.
So um and again, hope she gotout yeah and was living her best
life.
So let's pivot to the crimeagainst humanity that we start
seeing take shape as the maintheme of the season the plan to
relocate or eliminate gormansand, yes, eliminate.
(15:07):
So there's a secret meeting ina eagle's nest type location and
you have people from, like, theempire's ministry of truth I
know that's not their name, butyou have the ISB folks there and
you have military folks andthey're all doing a
(15:31):
brainstorming on how to get thisrare mineral from Gorman that
will most likely destroy theplanet.
So they talk about propaganda.
Uh, deitra's recommendation isyou need an insurgency that will
do the wrong thing at the righttime, and mining that's going
(15:53):
to make the planet unstable, soyou have a climate change issue
all at once.
I I did a tiktok on this.
This is crossing into crimesagainst humanity because you're
trying to eliminate us, anentire people, yeah, and it's
not necessarily a war crime yetbecause it's not war, right, but
(16:15):
it could turn into that.
So, um, my view is not a warcrime yet but could be If there
was armed conflict.
I think again, this is Thomasterritory, but I think that
would kick in.
But it's definitely a crimeagainst humanity when you decide
we're going to eliminate anentire group because we want the
planet genocide in the way thatinternational law has uh
(16:50):
defined it?
StarWarsLawyer (16:50):
um within the united nations, the convention
on the prevention and punishmentof the crime and genocide.
I think it could um fall undera few different ones, because
they have sort of five thingslisted under article two.
Um, you know, uh committed withthe intent to destroy, and
whole or in part, a national,ethical, ethnical, racial or
religious group.
I think you have at least threeof those in there.
(17:14):
So, killing members of thegroup, obviously that happens.
Causing serious bodily ormental harm to members of the
group.
Deliberately inflicting on thegroup conditions of life
calculated to bring about itsphysical destruction in whole or
in part?
Definitely.
Um.
Imposing metrics intended toprevent births?
No, forcibly transferringchildren of the group to another
group, also no.
(17:34):
So you know, there you have theintent, you have the mens rea
there, and then you have thephysical element.
Uh, even prior to well, they'resetting up the physical element
, even prior to Well, they'resetting up the physical element
prior to the Gorman massacre.
Joshua Gilliland (17:51):
Did you think it was odd Gorman only had
800,000 people on it For anentire planet to have that small
of a population, because thereare billions of human beings.
StarWarsLawyer (18:06):
I mean, if earth only had 800 000, we would be
spread out and there'd be largesections of the planet
uninhabited yeah, that thatmakes me think that at some
point, um, you know theycouldn't expand more, so their
population only grew as much asthey could allow.
Or it's a more recent, uh,settlement in in the galaxy, you
(18:32):
know, maybe it's only beenaround, for you know the
duration of the republic, sothat's only a, you know, a
thousand years or or something,maybe a little bit back into the
Old Republic.
But yeah, that is such a lownumber when we know the Death
Star had millions of people onit.
Joshua Gilliland (18:54):
It also makes me wonder is the planet small?
I mean, as we were talkingabout searching for life in the
cosmos, we're looking at superearths.
Is this something the size ofmercury, that that a smaller
population would make sense froma carrying capacity so they
don't overpopulate the planet?
(19:15):
But again, it looked.
I don't know if they just havea very rigid society that
doesn't grow, uh, but it just.
I thought that was just alittle weird Because I could
have accepted there are threemillion of them, or again,
billion makes more sense asopposed to.
StarWarsLawyer (19:36):
Yeah, we don't get a lot of populations thrown
out in Star Wars and I thinklike when Alderaan gets blown up
, it's like a couple billionpeople.
Obviously alderaan is one ofthe older, more, uh, older
civilized planets in in therepublic slash empire, so you
know.
But especially for gorman to beso quote unquote rich yeah, did
(20:02):
they purposely.
Joshua Gilliland (20:03):
We're going to keep it small.
Yeah, again, just people havegrowing families, so the idea
that people aren't gettingmarried and having kids is a
strange concept.
Or they're leaving, maybe it'sthat that too yeah, so we have
some rebel knuckleheads.
(20:24):
I, I cassie lands on yevon four.
We don't know that yet.
These rebels have lost theirleader, either killed or, I
don't think, abandoned.
Seems would be weird, butkilled makes more sense.
But the maya pay you know,there's, uh, there's the joke
(20:47):
that, uh, you know, the 18, 19year olds in the military, you
know, have the officers aroundas adult supervision and that
might be at play here.
There's no adults left and allthese people have low emotional
iq and weapons and short tempersand that's just a very bad
(21:09):
situation to be in, because noone can play well together.
And so you have the fact thatthey can't work together.
There's false imprisonment ofcassian.
They then start murdering eachother.
One is intentional.
StarWarsLawyer (21:26):
Then we get into involuntary manslaughter when
they don't know how the weaponson the tie work and uh we,
there's a body count with theseclowns and the fact that it all
starts off because the one guywho was probably rightly called
out for hiding during the lastbattle and his pride couldn't
(21:50):
take it because notice, no oneelse said no, he wasn't doing
that.
Everybody was just like yeah,and he just couldn't take it.
And then he doesn't swing.
You know he's not going toleave it to fisticuffs, he just
instantly fires.
Also going back a little bitbefore that, how they decide to
(22:11):
or maybe it was afterwards, yeah, after that when they decide to
settle their differences withrock paper scissors, pretty much
yeah and total submission.
Joshua Gilliland (22:21):
It's like what is this weird culty fight
they're gonna have?
StarWarsLawyer (22:25):
oh, it's rock paper scissors I thought they
were literally about to have auh, a brawl to the death, and
whichever one won was going tobe the leader.
That's what I thought was goingto happen, and then they did,
and I'm like what?
Joshua Gilliland (22:41):
Yeah, well, this is.
I mean, it wasn't a bro down,but it was.
It was weird, it was very weirdand like they're all going to
starve to death and die becausenone of them know how to keep
themselves alive, none of themunderstand how to stay safe,
collect water, how to avoid thelarge animals.
It just they have a craft shipand they can't play nice.
(23:07):
Food's ruined.
They don't understand how tolive off the land or animals,
and cassian opts not to leadthem and decides to leave them.
Uh, and that's the right call,because it's like you.
StarWarsLawyer (23:25):
You guys are nuts, um also, I believe the uh,
the woman that got killed wasthe only functional pilot, even
though she didn't know how tofight the Avengers.
So, like your pride literallyjust cost all their lives like
(23:53):
so beyond?
Joshua Gilliland (23:53):
I mean, it's why we have laws.
So yeah, it's part of what hasa civil society there the we
don't settle disputes byshooting each other and the
closest thing to a law that theyhave is rock paper scissors
yeah, okay, that's not a lord ofthe flies yeah, it's not a good
system of governance likethat's not.
You know, the woman in the lakegiving out a magical sword
(24:13):
better we just talked about thatyesterday or yeah, yesterday or
two days ago yeah, I mean again.
That would make more sense.
He's got the sword.
The magic lady gave it to himlike I am your king.
StarWarsLawyer (24:31):
I didn't vote for you lady gave it to him.
Like I am your king, I didn'tvote for you.
Joshua Gilliland (24:41):
Oh, again, that's how it can go wacky, uh,
but again like just people,unable to compromise, unable to
listen to each other, and thefailure to get along is how
people end up dead, and theyprobably all die yeah, I'd
rather fight about being rightthan actually fight to get
something done.
Because I have to be in charge.
Okay, big guy, when we go tothat big pyramid that looks like
(25:02):
shelter I don't know whythey're all dead and there's no
one living here anymore but thatwould give us a better chance
than waiting for the giantmurder cat to show up and start
killing people did you know itwas yapping before?
StarWarsLawyer (25:21):
you know, he took off did you know, which I
thought was really cool, becauseI didn't even think about what
planet is he on.
And then to pull off and to seethose, I was like, oh, it's
Yavin.
Joshua Gilliland (25:35):
Star Wars is really good at surprises and
while this isn't, like I am,your father type surprise, it's
an excellent surprise becauseit's like how do they figure out
Yavin's a place?
And apparently Luthan was usingit as a drop, and then the rest
of the rebellion decides tomove in after um, was it datuin
(25:58):
datman?
Yeah, uh, yeah where goes afterher speech.
So uh, oh, pronunciations.
So let's get to Sagrona Tima.
Okay, the entire thing of MonMothma effectively using her
(26:21):
daughter as collateral to get aloan.
StarWarsLawyer (26:24):
Yeah.
Joshua Gilliland (26:25):
Is disturbing on kinds of levels the daughter
wanting to get married and thesekids are 14 to 16.
They definitely under 18, butthey're teens and they look like
kids.
This isn't the 15 year old thatlooks like a dude.
This is a 15 year old thatlooks like a 15 year old for
(26:49):
both of them.
And the concept of arrangedmarriages and underage arranged
marriages is gross.
Yeah, there's some legalprecedent to underage marriage
with, like, parental consent.
You did some research, which iswhat you have here.
Oh God it just.
StarWarsLawyer (27:12):
Yeah, the overwhelming.
The super majority of states inthis country have allow
parental consent for childmarriages, and child marriages
are where one one spouse, Iguess, is under the age of 18.
It was legal in all 50 statesup until seven years ago.
(27:37):
It just became outlawed in mystate two years ago.
So it's not some archaicprinciple that's no longer
around.
Joshua Gilliland (27:52):
It's still here.
You think this would be a goodrallying cry for states to get
rid of this garbage and yeah, Isaid garbage because I don't
agree with it, and there arethose who argue like a religious
reason for it.
I just I find it disgusting andthis is something that should
(28:13):
join a shallow grave in historyof something that happened, not
something that happens Right.
StarWarsLawyer (28:19):
And while it's not very common, it's still an
alarming number.
A 2021 study showed from 2000to 2018, nearly 300,000 minors
got married.
Joshua Gilliland (28:31):
2018, nearly 300,000 minors got married.
Yeah, I understand if it's like1813 and life expectancy is 40.
Like I could okay Differenttime, not anymore, not when
people live to 100.
Like this is just just just no.
(28:52):
Yeah, we're not just notsomething a civil society should
be doing.
StarWarsLawyer (28:59):
And the fact that we saw oh go ahead.
Joshua Gilliland (29:01):
No, no, you first.
StarWarsLawyer (29:15):
We saw literally the effects of when you have
children making this sort oflifetime commitment, legal
commitment, emotional commitment, where Lita breaks down because
her groom-to-be doesn't want tohold her hand and now, like for
a brief second, she isrealizing the effects of it and
later on Mana is just like youdon't have to do this right, but
she has the romantic part oflove in her head, of what the
(29:40):
romantic part of marriage in herhead, not the nitty-gritty
day-to-day of what it reallymeans to be in a relationship
with someone for the rest ofyour life the season one episode
where she's attending almostlike a confirmation class yeah,
with you know, with otherchildren from chandrila that
(30:02):
that are on course on andthey're they're chanting
something about like a braid.
Joshua Gilliland (30:09):
I mean I want, from a writer's perspective,
going like, hey, let's come upwith a brand new culture where
they have a braid and it getscut at the marriage ceremony.
Okay, I mean creative,something different.
But I appreciate that you haveMon and Vel who do not look
(30:32):
happy that you know a teenageris getting married and
participating in a traditionthat they don't agree with
Because people change as theyage.
And I mean there are those whohave the lifetime love that you
know they fall in love in highschool and they get married and
(30:53):
they stay together, but thereare those who don't.
StarWarsLawyer (30:57):
Yeah.
It does make me wonder and Iknow we're kind of jumping ahead
is what happened to Leta postthis arc, Because we hear about
it in the next arc but we don'thear about her afterwards.
And I wonder, like, how doesshe feel after her mother leaves
(31:18):
the senate and is public enemynumber one, basically until luke
blows up the death star?
Joshua Gilliland (31:25):
uh, you know yeah, that's a great question
and and they leave something youknow maybe what's the time
difference between bb1 to ahsoka?
Is ahsoka nine years okay, solet's just say that she's would
(31:49):
have been married for like 12years by the time of Ahsoka.
StarWarsLawyer (31:52):
Something about that.
Yeah, Amon is possibly agrandmother.
Joshua Gilliland (31:57):
Yeah, and she could be late 20s, maybe 30, but
let's just say late 20s.
Would she have the same views?
Would she still be with thatguy, because he would look like
a dead fish?
Yeah, you're here to hold thescript, dude, and you know, like
(32:18):
he didn't seem into it, it waslike I have to do this because
it's what's done anyway.
That that covers that crossesinto episodes two and three with
the wedding that takes place.
But we also have Teva Tei Kolma, mon's lifelong friend, whose
(32:45):
wife's left him, and he'slooking vulnerable and because
of the vulnerability, he sayshe's feeling undervalued.
And this is opening the door toMon being extorted in a variety
of ways and then he getsdisappeared at the end.
And I I mean from a moralstandpoint no, it's wrong to do
(33:14):
that.
From a we don't need to all getshot by the empire and stay in
a state of tyranny.
StarWarsLawyer (33:22):
I get why yeah, and, and the thing is is, he was
all on board with helping Monwhen it wasn't affecting him,
but that's when it became realto him and then he's just like,
well, maybe I should look atsome other options.
Joshua Gilliland (33:40):
You know, because he was he, he lost his
money, he lost his marriageself-defense change if you're a
rebel in the Imperial world andtrying to not get disappeared in
the middle of the night.
StarWarsLawyer (33:59):
Well, I think it would be not for the Imperials
but for the New Republic,probably, Because with the
Imperials, that's just anotherpiece of evidence for your
treason.
Joshua Gilliland (34:12):
Yeah, as opposed to uh, I did this to
protect myself, so I had tosilence this guy so he wouldn't
be a problem.
That's a dark world, uh, tolive in.
Uh, would the new republic notprosecute people who?
I did this for survival?
I made a lifelong frienddisappear.
(34:34):
Well, Mon didn't but Luthanrecognized him as a threat and
had him taken care of adoptingthe tactics of his enemy.
So we have Bix go through oneof the most horrific storylines
in Star Wars history and I meanlet's just address it.
(34:57):
We have the creepy Imperialhitting on her, then a sexual
assault and attempted rape.
Self-defense is lethal force isjustified in self-defense in
cases of rape.
Is lethal forces justified inself-defense in cases of rape?
StarWarsLawyer (35:14):
And then following up with the Imperial
officer that came out afterwards.
you know I think it continuesbecause her life was still in
danger and this was I don't knowif you saw this brought up a
(35:35):
bunch of discussion aboutwhether sexual assault belongs
in star wars and I'm like it'sbeen there since 1983 yeah, like
you know, maybe if you're 12,you don't get what's going on
with java and leia, but honestly, if you're over the age of 18,
(35:55):
let alone just growing up today,with law and order, law and
order, svu being on for 25 yearsand shows like ncis and csi and
criminal, they all address it.
Joshua Gilliland (36:07):
It's been everywhere yeah, it's a, it's
dark I but it's real it's real.
I don't have a problem withage-appropriate star wars
because we can go from thespectrum of young jedi adventure
adventures made forfive-year-olds to to andor.
(36:31):
That's a wide universe ofcontent and different viewers.
Yep, now that are the you knowgen xers watching and are going
to be watching young jediadventures.
Most likely, especially if theyhave kids, they're going to be
watching them uh, do I want asix-year-old watching?
(36:52):
and or no, no, no, I think thisis more teen appropriate.
You know, uh, pg-13 type typematerial.
StarWarsLawyer (37:03):
Uh yeah, hard pg , most likely pg-13 yeah, your
TV 14 age range, and that's OK.
Star Wars has layers for areason, you know, the books are
generally darker than the thingswe see in the visual media,
(37:24):
because they can do that.
You know, it's this kind oflike the.
The stereotype for twi'leks wasthat they were all exotic
dancers.
Like it is a.
It is a reality in our worldthat sex workers get abused, get
(37:48):
sexually assaulted, get raped.
So you know.
And then not even talking aboutthe problem that, uh, the
military has, uh, with sexualassault, and the imperial
officer is, you know, a militaryofficial, and let alone when an
invading force, a conqueringforce, an oppressive force has
(38:09):
power over a population and canget away with whatever they want
, this will definitely happen.
Joshua Gilliland (38:18):
Oh, it's Imperial Japan what they did in
China and Korea during World WarII, and you know the Nazi
Germany was no stranger to thatlevel of cruelty as well.
And what the russians did tothe germans after you know,
conquering berlin, I mean,there's some dark, dark stuff in
(38:41):
history.
All of that aside, like this isthe age-appropriate star wars
that you want, you know like 14and up and it's.
I'm fine covering the topic, uh,even though I did feel super
creepy and horrible and didn'twant to see it again.
(39:01):
Uh, that said, yeah, because wehave child marriage and then
then assault and yeah, I meanthat's just.
And then assault and it's just,I mean it's just.
You know, it makes seeinggenocide of an entire planet go
okay.
StarWarsLawyer (39:18):
Right and I think it's.
People are like, well, I don'twant to see it.
I was like it's kind of thepoint, you don't want to see it.
It's supposed to make youuncomfortable, If you.
If it doesn't make youuncomfortable, that calls for
some serious self-reflection.
Joshua Gilliland (39:31):
Now, why didn't this freak you out?
StarWarsLawyer (39:33):
Yeah.
Joshua Gilliland (39:35):
All right, going from that, we have very
effective, interesting bad guyswith Deidre and Cyril the fact
that Deidre's a good girlfriendthat rips into Deedee in one of
(39:58):
the most effective dinner partyever seen.
And these are the bad guys.
And you find them compellingthat you have Cyril just getting
run over by his mom, who's hada rough life with her.
The ISB girlfriend who'stortured people for a living.
(40:19):
She's planning a crime againsthumanity and is going to go up
against, you know, the scarymother-in-law and takes her down
in the most brutal, effectiveway possible mhm, it does.
StarWarsLawyer (40:39):
I'm going and Cyril just retreating to the
bedroom and just laying flat outon the bed.
Joshua Gilliland (40:48):
Uh, you know the actor improvised that.
That was just perfect.
I mean likevised that that wasjust Perfect.
Perfect, I mean, like the bodyposition, it was just like, oh
yeah, like they've just how doyou handle that?
Brilliantly done.
But what Deidre outlines as acontract, not optional, so it's
(41:12):
a unilateral contract of this ishow things are going to be and
you're going to stop torturingus.
StarWarsLawyer (41:18):
It sounds like an extreme version of a custody
agreement.
You have these benchmarks youwill hit and then you will be
able to get some visitation.
That's essentially what it is.
That's what I thought of wow,yeah, uh which definitely
(41:40):
doesn't play into, you know,cyril, having mother issues,
mommy issues and going from edto mean it's a fascinating
relationship because it's.
Joshua Gilliland (41:57):
It's her getting hit in the head with a
brick and nearly killed by anangry mob, where she gives him a
chance afterwards and, uh, Imean it goes to the issue of
getting a concussion and meetinga guy which can result in
marriage in Padme's case.
(42:18):
Don't fall out of an aircraftand get married the next day.
StarWarsLawyer (42:24):
Yes.
Joshua Gilliland (42:26):
But this seems it's a complex relationship and
it's fascinating that they didthis with the villains and
they're not just like themustache-twirling, you know,
evil commandant type.
It's something far morethoughtful.
StarWarsLawyer (42:49):
I got uncomfortable every time I saw
them together on screen at anypoint in the series.
I just uh, it just made my skincrawl I.
Joshua Gilliland (42:59):
I didn't feel uncomfortable because here are
two introverts that probablyhaven't had a healthy
relationship before and I thinkthey're just doing their best
now.
When we get to the laterepisodes, there are things that
happen that are not okay, butlet's not get there yet.
But it is fascinating thatDeidre lays down the rules and
(43:28):
they're not goshable.
Don't come to my house anddrizzle fondue across the table.
Yeah, there's been a lot ofcommentary on it doesn't make
sense for Deidre to have been inan imperial kinder block,
because at this point the Empireis only 16 years old and she's
(43:53):
got to be at least 30 and beingin her kinder block doesn't mean
from birth like she could havebeen 15 when she went in and
yeah and and also just and I Ithink about tarkarkin in A New
Hope, where he talks about thedissolving of the like the last
(44:17):
message of the Republic is gone.
StarWarsLawyer (44:19):
It's like I feel like Detro, being so gung-ho
about the Empire, would notrecognize the Republic as being,
you know, anything worthmentioning being, you know
anything worth mentioning right,you know I was raised by the
empire.
I, you know I am the Imperial,you know, security bureau
(44:44):
captain or lieutenant orwhatever her rank is now.
So that that's how I took it.
She's clearly older than 19.
And, like you said she, youknow she could have been raised
in it as a kid.
But like she said she, you knowshe could have been raising it
as a kid, but, like she said,she was an orphan.
When did she become an orphan?
Right?
And we know, at least with thefirst order, uh, that they
weren't, uh, that theyconditioned their people.
(45:06):
I wouldn't be surprised if youknow they had some semblance of
that, some sort of education,training, uh programming, that
that they gave uh orphans undertheir care yeah, all plausible.
Joshua Gilliland (45:22):
but yeah, it's being raised in an imperial
kinder block does not mean sinceage two, right, and I mean she
would have been old enough.
Both of them would have beenold enough to have been kids
during the Clone Wars and thatprobably wasn't fun.
Now I thought, because Deidredidn't want the Gorman project,
(45:45):
that she could have been fromthere.
That lead was never followed upor talked about, so I think
she's from someplace else, whichmakes me wonder if she realized
.
Well, the plan for Gorman was abad idea and she didn't want to
be a part of it.
StarWarsLawyer (46:03):
Yeah, it could have been.
I felt it was two things One,she just felt like it was
beneath her, and then she alsowanted to get back to Axis,
because she had just been undera situation where you had a
(46:23):
local population rise up and shealmost died.
So to oversee another one orparticipate in another one she
may not have been too keen on,like, let me focus on my pet
project, axis.
Where is he?
Who is he?
I'm going to find him.
Let me do that.
I want to do that.
Joshua Gilliland (46:40):
I would like to avoid angry mobs in the
future, so it's not going to bemy career path.
It'd be like realizing you knowwhat?
I don't want to be a litigator.
I really like transactionalwork.
StarWarsLawyer (46:56):
now I'm going to do trademark applications like
that, yeah, after handling, likethe trial of the decade yeah,
it's just like.
Joshua Gilliland (47:02):
Nope, I hated this, like don't want to be part
of that world anymore, makessense.
You can see that happening andthat, other than some questions
about the wedding of where istheir underage drinking like?
Because we have all these teensrunning around on what should
(47:22):
be a like a high school party,instead it's somebody's wedding.
Is you know when we have momsgetting sloshed is?
Is there underage drinking atthis thing?
StarWarsLawyer (47:39):
I mean, is it a religious ceremony?
We know it's a deeply culturalthing, but is there a religious
to it?
Because that's exceptions, thatthat's an exception to our
national minimum legal drinkingat uh age.
Um, I think there's alsofamilial consent in in this
purpose as well.
(47:59):
So I think it might be acombination of those, those
things.
Or you know, maybe their legalage of drinking is 14 on tendril
, since they can get married at16.
Joshua Gilliland (48:11):
yeah, I could buy that because, uh, kids don't
get sloshed on communion wine.
I mean, I'm sure it's possible,but you know, having the symbol
of wine, you know, after yourwafer or bread, whatever the
(48:31):
service is doing like that's,that's different, as opposed to
you're toasting and throwingdown shots with mom um that just
seems way problematic.
My two cents, um.
Here's something I found superinteresting the actress who
(48:57):
plays.
Why am I blanking on her name?
StarWarsLawyer (49:01):
Vel's lover Cinta.
Joshua Gilliland (49:03):
Cinta.
She's also in Doctor who.
She's the current companion.
Oh, so yeah, because I had thatreal, because I had had again,
hadn't watched season one in awhile and in re-watching this
and currently watching doctor,who was like wait a minute, same
actress I know that face.
Yeah, it's like time.
(49:24):
So how cool for her.
You know you get the actors whoare in multiple big sci-fi.
You know tent poles uh it'slike you could be signing
autographs for the next 30 years.
StarWarsLawyer (49:37):
Yeah at a right.
Just just get on one of thestar trek uh spinoffs and and
hit the trifecta yeah, it's uh,and there are those who've done
it.
Joshua Gilliland (49:49):
Uh, throw in a marvel one, because there are
those who've done that.
I mean, you have, you know,david tennant, that's done.
Marvel doctor, who, obviously.
And star wars, uh, there areothers who, uh, you have george
takai, who's done voice work andthe clone wars, in addition to
all the star trek work, andavatar the the Last Airbender.
(50:14):
The Gremlins animated series.
He's one of the lead Gremlins,so there are those who are,
again, that's their career, butit's seeing people who are just
checking the boxes.
It's like give Tenet a StarTrek role now and box is checked
Right.
(50:34):
So, yeah, I just I think thatwas really cool, so, but it's
good stuff.
So that's the first arc.
We have three more to go andlook forward to being able to
discuss this more and, uh, lookforward to being able to discuss
(50:56):
this more.
StarWarsLawyer (50:57):
So when oh yeah, any closing thoughts about you
know our again, we bumped intoeach other twice in japan yeah
that those are random odds, likeimpossible odds, and we did it
twice yeah, I ran into nearlyeverybody that I knew that was
going to be there, except forone person, and I was there for
(51:19):
a day and a half that's veryimportant.
Joshua Gilliland (51:24):
Yeah, it's food line and we were going by
the um the hot toys.
StarWarsLawyer (51:29):
Is that what it?
Joshua Gilliland (51:29):
was the hot toys that was too busy to go in.
Yeah, you know, there werebooths I never bothered to go
into because it was just toocrazy lines were a menace at
this celebration.
StarWarsLawyer (51:45):
It's always something that's a menace at
celebration.
This one was lines, whether itwas lines for food, lines for
booths, lines for panels.
Uh, it was a bit ridiculouslast celebration.
It was, uh, the hallway to getto the different, like the main
hallway where, like, you enterthe uh convention center and
(52:06):
you're trying to get food oryou're trying to go to a panel
or to the halls where all thebooths and things, where it was
just it was that's where theyput the giant tie fighter and
like the 18.
So it was just, it was just uh,um, what, what are our cattle
in when you're, you know, likeall leading them to slaughter?
That's what.
Joshua Gilliland (52:26):
That's what we were all in yeah, this was, um,
I know to have have wateringsnacks, yeah, and like overall
positive experience, but therewere some bumpy elements, uh,
but we look ahead.
So, chris, so star wars lawyer,thank you and no problem and uh
(52:50):
, we'll be talking more and wehave three more arcs to hit.
So everyone, thanks for tuningin, stay tuned for more
adventures and, wherever you are, stay safe, stay healthy and
stay geeky.
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