July 1, 2025 • 55 mins
Review of the final story arc of Andor, season 2, episodes “Make It Stop”, “Who Else Knows?”, and “Jedha, Kyber, Erso”.
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Episode Transcript
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Joshua Gilliland (00:02):
Good evening or good day.
My name is Joshua Gilliland.
I'm one of the foundingattorneys of the Legal Geeks.
This is our final broadcast onseason two, arc four of Andor.
With me for this adventure isretired New York State Judge
(00:25):
Matthew Shrino and StephenTollefield.
Gentlemen, how are you eachdoing?
Starting with your honor, I amfine.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (00:34):
Thank you very much, Josh Excellent.
Stephen Tollafield (00:37):
Stephen, how about you?
Good thanks, Excited to bringit on home.
Yes, One of the best seriesever as far as I'm concerned.
One of the best series ever asfar as I'm concerned and unlike
some series, we don't have thatquestion, you know.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (00:49):
Will there be a season three?
Joshua Gilliland (00:51):
right, season three is the Rogue One movie
yeah, and just the gauntletsthrown down for keep writing
good stuff next we've.
You know the joke is, andorruined Star Wars by being good
and I just set a really high barfor everyone going forward.
(01:12):
So you know, the bar is set.
Take it from here, all youwonderful creative types.
So this arc includes Make itStop who Else Knows.
And Jedha Khyber Erso.
All right, so it's a year afterthe Gorman Massacre.
Nodes make it stop who elsenodes.
Anjetta Kyber Urso.
All right, so it's a year afterthe Gorman Massacre.
We have Yavin really up andrunning.
And here we are on how RogueOne happens.
(01:38):
Effectively, this story takesplace probably over a couple
days, maybe a day, uh, maybe aday.
And uh, so make it stop issupervisor lonnie young wants
out and he's like hey, I youknow he had uh dead ramiros, uh
code cylinder and was able tolog in for over three hours.
(02:00):
And that raises some big infoissues about unauthorized
computer access.
Your Honor, can you talk to usabout computer trespass, at
least the New York version of it?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (02:12):
Yes, in New York Lonnie would have been
guilty of computer trespass,which is a Class E felony in New
York.
A person is guilty of computertrespass under Section 156.10 of
our penal law when he or sheknowingly uses causes to be used
or accesses a computer,computer service or computer
(02:32):
network without authorization.
And although he did haveimperial authorization to enter
imperial networks, deidre haddifferent access levels than he
did and he was accessing partsof the computer that he did not
have access to.
He probably also would havebeen guilty of unauthorized use
of a computer, which is amisdemeanor under 156.05 of the
(02:58):
New York Penal Law.
A person is guilty ofunauthorized use of a computer
when he or she knowingly uses,causes to be used or accesses a
computer, computer service orcomputer network without
authorization.
And again, although he had someaccess to the network, he
didn't have all the same levelsthat Deidre did, and that would
bring us to the Federal ComputerFraud and Abuse Act.
(03:20):
And Stephen, those were yournotes, so you could take it from
there.
Stephen Tollafield (03:24):
Yeah, there's federal dimensions too.
Lots of states like New Yorkhave hacking and cybercrime
statutes, but the federal lawincludes a section that's
specific to espionage that ifyou access a computer that has
sensitive federal data on it andtake that data and give it to
someone who's unauthorized tohave it, that is a specific
(03:46):
violation of the crime, amongother things in the CFAA.
But if you get convicted ofthat espionage violation with
any other violation, it's up to20 years in prison because of
that espionage.
It's not really an enhancement,it's like a separate crime.
But yeah, and similarly, as youpointed out, judge, it's not
(04:11):
just accessing a computer system, it can be exceeding your
authorized access, not just thephysical act of putting your
fingers on a keyboard thatdoesn't belong to you.
Joshua Gilliland (04:24):
So similar in that way and california has an
interesting wrinkle on itbecause it'd actually be a form
of identity theft because helogged, you know, lonnie logs in
as miro and so that would raisethis like false impersonation
element of it, uh, as well.
And so with california that'sactually one of the elements
(04:47):
that we have for for an identitytheft, because he's logged in
as her.
So it's a all kinds of funwrinkles on how different states
or the federal government would, uh, you know, prosecute this.
But this highlights, you know,what the Force wills, because
(05:10):
without Deidre being this packrat going after all this
information and then Lonnielogging in and finding out what
she knows, that's how theRebellion ultimately learns
about the Death Star and kicksoff everything that we will see
in the Skywalker saga, or atleast the original Star Wars as
(05:31):
we enjoy it.
So without Miro being obsessedabout finding access, none of
the original trilogy would havehappened.
So it's as the force wills itand I just I find that
hysterical on on how we get hereyeah, I haven't thought about
(05:54):
it that way, but she's the looselip that sinks the entire
empire pretty much.
That's amazing yeah, without her, luke would have stayed on
tatooine.
So you're like there would havebeen because Luke would have
stayed on Tatooine.
So you know like there wouldhave been because the Rebellion
would have never found out aboutthe Death Star until it was too
late and maybe it would havehappened in some other way.
But you know, the entire pointof what happens in Rogue One has
(06:21):
to have these events take place, which means without her being
obsessed.
She's the causation.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (06:31):
And with a bit of a spoiler alert to
later on in the arc, I'm surethat when she's rescued from the
holding cell for which she's inby the rebellion, her defense
lawyer might be able to raiseall of these mitigating factors
to try to get her war crimescase dismissed.
(06:51):
But we'll leave that for futuremoot courts probably.
Joshua Gilliland (06:55):
Yes, yes, one day at a time, but we have her
again deciding to raid Luthan'sart store and this gets you know
, I'm a civil litigator Beforethat let's discuss the witness
protection program that Luthanputs Lonnie into.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (07:19):
Yes yes , permanent witness protection.
Joshua Gilliland (07:24):
Yeah, this is dark because, your Honor, you
raised it.
Why don't you take it?
And then I want to share someof my thoughts on this.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (07:32):
As soon as Lonnie spills the beans, so
to speak, as to what he foundout, Luthan's answer to make
sure that he tells no one elseor doesn't become a weak link is
to shoot him at point blankrange and kill him, and he would
clearly be guilty of, in NewYork, common law murder, which
(07:56):
is murder in the second degreebecause he did willfully cause
the death of another person.
Arguably, if the ISB is apolice force, that could be
murder in the first degree inNew York, because the murder of
a law enforcement officer wouldbe murder in the first degree in
New York.
Joshua Gilliland (08:16):
I'm surprised Luthan didn't have an extraction
plan and kind of disappointedin him Like he knew this day was
coming.
Like when it comes time to,we're going to eventually have
to bail.
So how do we get everybody out?
And on one level it would besuper lazy if the plan was just
(08:39):
to kill the guy who's been auseful informant.
That's bad for morale.
That's not a good way torecruit more people is if you
just off people.
It's one thing to have to makea sacrifice of a team in order
to not blow a deep coveroperative, but to have no
(09:02):
extraction plan, uh is well,that's just weird.
And I don't know if that meansthat they're just running out of
resources, that they knew thatthey wouldn't be able to get
everybody out, uh.
Stephen Tollafield (09:16):
But or maybe they didn't.
Maybe the idea of trying tosecure his wife and child was
just too much of a complicationbecause they could extract him
and leave them behind.
But then they are hostages.
To get him, to draw him backout, or trying to gather them
and take them with him is kindof risky proposition too.
Joshua Gilliland (09:38):
But Luthan is really good at preparing, so why
not have a plan for that?
Or you know, lani, as the ISPagent you know, you know, have
the wife go, all right.
So you're gonna go visit, youknow, your parents on planet x
or whatever, and that's when Imake the move to get out of here
and we rendezvous someplaceelse.
(09:59):
Uh, but that wouldn't mean thewife knowing, which again is
another factor to this, but shewould still be a loose end, you
know, for for escaping.
Stephen Tollafield (10:12):
So it's just not a great situation?
Joshua Gilliland (10:16):
no, no it just it just bothered me because,
you know, thinking back to everyJames Bond type movie, it's
like you have a plan to get outthe people that that have helped
you, because if you're tryingto build a rebellion, if you're
just bumping off the people thatare helping you, that just
seems to not be great.
(10:37):
I mean it highlights he didhave to adapt the plans of his
enemy but still, man like itjust anyway.
It anyway just just seems badfor morale yes, the whole.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (10:50):
You know the.
The weakest part that I that Ireally felt in this arc was that
lack of a of an escape plan.
You know, to to to when the gigwas up and they kind of saw it
happening at that point.
Um, not even to have his, hisart gallery, like you know,
rigged to blow up.
(11:10):
Uh, you know he was pouringacid to destroy uh computer
files and stuff.
It seemed a lot less than thanhe would have planned.
Uh, his ship, which we all grewto love, you know, to see the
Empire aboard it and like,looking through it, you know, I
would have thought that he wouldhave really had every piece of
(11:32):
that you know detonated andblown up and taken a bunch of
Empire Imperial people to to towith them.
And the only thing I can comeup with is maybe he wanted to
lull the Empire into a bit of afalse sense of security in that
we got them and that's all thatthere is to this particular big,
(11:54):
you know, rebellion cell andand we can relax a little bit
and and that would give theother people the chance to do
something big, but that that wasthe best I could come up with
yeah, I, yeah, you think youwould have a detonator, you know
again a thermal detonator, andit's like all right and bye-bye,
like push the button and thatbaby blows, that's it, we're
(12:19):
done.
Joshua Gilliland (12:20):
Next, that's yeah, I mean I.
That's the only thing that Ithought was weird, because he is
very prepared and having theability to go like, yeah, this
is over, it's gonna blow up now,um, so we have deidre decide to
(12:41):
launch a raid for a missionthat she's not on, this smacks
of overreach.
I mean, it's one thing to bethe super dedicated employee and
you're putting in extra time,but when it's not in your lane
and you blow an operation,that's, you know, for the people
that have the doctrine of fearthat we make people disappear,
(13:04):
that seems to be a weirdposition for her to be in, like
because it's it's a problem uh,she did it to memorialize cyril.
Stephen Tollafield (13:13):
In honor of cyril, she's gonna go in guns
blazing without under the radaryeah it.
Joshua Gilliland (13:19):
Just she learned the wrong lesson from
that relationship of.
So this is what got myboyfriend into this bad, bad
life choice.
Luckily we end up together, butbecause of my life choices, he
also ends up dead.
Why?
(13:39):
Why invest more?
Like you know, nobody learnsthe lesson of like, well, I'm
going to go into a differentline of work or hey, I want to
go get stationed here and not bepart of this anymore.
No, she's obsessed and thatultimately leads to the
destruction of the Death Star.
So, whoops.
But it's a brilliantly actedscene.
(14:05):
Like they, you know the, theactors just swimming for the
fences.
Uh, you know, one of you mademade note of the great quote
only two pieces of questionableprovidence in this gallery.
Any guesses?
Uh, uh.
Then one of you also raised theissue was was deitra's
(14:26):
execution of the arrestnegligence, malfeasance or
treasonable?
Uh, because she allows, youknow, evidence to get destroyed.
Who, who would like to bringthat on?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (14:40):
you know, she, she, she.
Clearly you capture and securethe scene before you do anything
else.
And she gave him time todestroy evidence and to you know
what he thought wasaccomplished, killing himself
that he couldn't be used to test.
So you know, if you're going togo off book and try a mission,
(15:04):
you got to really do it well andshe butchered it and that's.
You know.
The reason that her fate iswhat it is in the show
ultimately is because the wayshe handled this botched
operation surprised they justdidn't shoot her, because that's
(15:29):
now, the empire's not exactlyshy in shooting those who, who
screw up.
Joshua Gilliland (15:32):
So, uh, but they also I mean star wars,
rebels gets into this with theway that the empire set itself
up for failure by havingofficers compete with each other
and, uh, again in in rebels.
That's what leads to commandersato's demise.
Uh, but it really does.
You know, take out an imperialadmiral and throw and throw
(15:55):
thrawn's plans into um disarray,uh, but again, like it was
something the nazis did as wellof, like they don't play well
together and they set thiscompetition factor, which again
sounds very much rule of two forgetting people to compete and
fight, but it's not good formorale.
(16:19):
Luthen's suicide attempt Well,suicide, we don't like that.
But you do think she, he wouldhave had like the, the tooth or
something that could have beenthe, the quick exit.
Uh, it would illuminate a giantstorytelling, uh opportunity,
but uh, you think there wouldhave been.
(16:41):
He would have had a better exitplan for himself.
Not to be critical of the storybecause it's still brilliantly
done, but again, these are veryprepared people who now we're
looking like they weren't readyfor this contingency.
And that's just kind of weirdfor them.
So we have the entire operationin the hospital, you know,
(17:08):
breaking in impersonating anurse and your Honor.
There's a lot of New York codecited here.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (17:39):
So I have a mercy killing of him of
criminal trespass in the firstdegree, because not only did she
trespass in a hospital withoutcause to be there or authority
to be in various parts of thatbuilding, she did possess
firearms at various times andshe did also use incendiary
(17:59):
devices, so that would havebumped it up to the felony level
of trespass.
She also would have been guiltyof criminal impersonation in
the second degree to to makesure that they thought that she
was a a member of the staff atthe hospital so that she was
(18:32):
able to get access to parts ofthe hospital.
That she was not, that she didnot have any authority to go
there.
She also took whether it's it'skidnapping or not, I think it's
simply the fact that she kindof did take ET's grandmother
without her authority orpermission to take Fiazza.
(18:56):
So I think she might have beenguilty of kidnapping in the
second degree for abducting ofanother person.
Stephen Tollafield (19:04):
Although she seems like she's having the
time of her life.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (19:07):
She had a great time she was singing
and humming, you know, no harmcame to her.
Uh, you know, in the realm ofthings I can certainly see a
jury acquitting her of thatcharge it's a victimless crime
yeah, but but yeah, she was agreat.
(19:27):
You know there was a lot ofheavy things going on as she was
gaining access and it reallydid lighten it a bit.
I love that they used you know,that particular alien.
You know, she, she, she was agreat little character there.
And then she does get to Lutherand she is able to kill Luther
(19:53):
so that he would not be able tobe used by the empire.
They are currently.
(20:24):
They literally yesterday justpassed the legislature and it's
on now the desk of the governorin New York the New York Medical
Aid in Dying Act, which issimilar to the Oregon Death with
Dignity Act, which would allowfor mercy killings in certain
situations.
The Catholic Church in New Yorkis very much against it and has
been fighting this bill foryears, but there is a pretty
good chance that New York willbe passing this bill that was
just passed yesterday by the NewYork State Senate and is now on
the desk of New York Governor,kathy Hochul, who has to decide
(20:49):
whether or not she's going tosign it or veto it and would
allow, you know, a assistance,basically an assisted suicide
type of bill.
Stephen Tollafield (21:02):
Interesting.
California's had the End ofLife Option Act for about almost
10 years now, as 2016 waspassed, but it's certainly
something where the person who'sterminally ill has to make like
two oral requests and a writtenrequest.
There has to be sort of nocoercion and it's a prescription
for the person to end their ownlife.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (21:24):
You can't like if someone's like in
a coma, you can't have someonelike, just murder them and
clearly Luther was in noposition to, although I think it
would have been very clear thatthat would have been his desire
.
He was certainly not able toexpress that desire, that desire
(21:44):
at that time to, to, to, totake his, his own life.
But he, you know, he, he, hetried to take his life to begin
with but he could have, you know, arguably changed his mind.
But you know, she, she wassuccessful and, and you know, in
in a very tough situation thingto pull off.
(22:06):
I mean, even so, that when youknow, when they first, when the
empire was first looking to seehow it was done, you know they
thought it was multiple peoplebecause you know they could not
phantom how just one personwould be able to pull this off
by themselves.
Stephen Tollafield (22:21):
I think it was terrifying.
She was like Darth Vader, theend of Rogue One.
She was just like relentlessand like Her facial expressions.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (22:31):
You know there was just such a blank
her.
Her eyes told a story, but buther face was blank and it just.
You know she's a relatively newuh actor and and she certainly
uh will have many roles afterthis.
She played an incrediblecharacter throughout the series
(22:54):
and this whole encounter wasincredible, I thought.
Joshua Gilliland (22:59):
Going back to the California law, it has to be
something terminal, like so it.
You know it can't be.
I'm depressed.
Like it has to be a terminalillness that there's no recovery
from and the doctor's still notthe one pulling the trigger for
(23:19):
it so he could recover from.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (23:37):
And the New York bill is a significant
likelihood of death within sixmonths, so it's also a terminal
death with dignity act.
Joshua Gilliland (23:47):
But that raises the issue that we've seen
with this before of operationalsecurity.
Like this world of spycraft isnot functioning under anything
we would see as legal, becauseduress is not a reason to kill
someone like it's.
That's not justification orsaying we have to keep the
(24:07):
secret.
So i'm'm going to start killingfriends, which is a theme
throughout Rogue One and all ofAndor, with different people
getting put down in order foroperational security.
So the rebellion survives.
From a spy story perspective,that's the right call for them.
Stephen Tollafield (24:28):
From a legal perspective, it's not
defendable uh, I'm gonna put inmy metal medical directive that
if I'm ever at the business endof a interrogation droid, feel
free to off me.
Joshua Gilliland (24:40):
Just pull the plug oh, boy, uh, that is.
That's a lot to unpack there,man.
Um, but luckily we don't havethose yet.
So, uh, I don't know ifsomething in silicon valley is
(25:00):
being developed as we speak, butuh, you know those, those
advanced robotics that look likescary dogs that you know, maybe
, again you know, maybe there'ssome engineer who watches this
and go like I could make that,and if that's your reaction,
that's not a good reaction of Ican make something terrifying.
Judge Matthew Sci (25:21):
Interestingly enough, those dogs that you
speak of, which are made byBoston Dynamics.
They entered, and the companyentered America's Got Talent
last night and it had five ofthose dogs doing a dance routine
.
One of them broke down in themiddle of the dance routine, but
the other four completed thedance routine but it is one of
(25:42):
the cutest things you've everseen.
So if you want Google, bostonDynamics, america's Got Talent
and you can be entertained bythose dogs doing a dance routine
.
Joshua Gilliland (25:54):
Yeah, it's what.
When you see a droid builderwith R2-D2 at a con, little
children will come up and wantto hug that R2 unit.
I've seen ladies kiss the R2unit.
People feel very happy whenthey see an r2d2 rolling in.
Sure, it's remote control, butpeople naturally think that's
(26:17):
one of the good guys.
The murder robot is terrifyingand let's not normalize the
murder robot by making it do adance routine.
That's going to go like hey,it's all cool, these, these
terrifying things, can uh put ondinner in a show for you.
Now we do get flashbacks whichlooks like they go to naboo and
(26:40):
one of their flashbacks, and weget to see uh luthan, uh, just
having a.
His name is spelled the otherdirection, so uh, but we do see
the beginning of them playingspy and uh.
So we have, uh, you know likehe, he doesn't follow uh lawful
(27:03):
orders.
Uh, well, let's just say hedoesn't follow orders.
Whether or not they they'relawful is a question of.
An illegal order is illegal onits face is what case law says.
And that goes back to, likeAaron Burr prosecution of, like
(27:23):
it's clearly looks illegal Caselaw talks about.
Case law talks about then,after World War II, I think it
might have been the late 40s,into the 1950s, I don't remember
for sure, but it's someplace inthe European theater and the
higher ranking officer, theyhave an individual who's face
(27:47):
down on the ground and thesubordinate military personnel
is told to shoot the person inthe back of the head.
That person does so and thendoes the I was just following
orders defense, and that doesn'tfly, because shooting someone
(28:07):
who's face down in the back is,on its face, an illegal order
and it's repugnant to law tohave to follow an illegal order.
So was what Luthan was getting?
Were those illegal orders?
Because it looks like he's inthe Imperial infantry doing his
(28:29):
thing.
It's like he's in the Imperialinfantry doing his thing.
Your Honor, you have experiencein military law.
What's your view on SergeantLuthan's failure to follow
orders?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (28:43):
Yeah, he was an NCO or sergeant or a
non-commissioned officer.
He also was drinking and it wasclearly suffering from being
shell-shocked because he keptsaying to himself make it stop,
make it stop, as the shellingwas continuing.
But drinking while on duty andduring an active mission would
have violated various militaryregulations.
(29:05):
When he was ordered to tostraff the ridge, it seems like
that was probably the killing ofcivilians that were defenseless
and that probably would havebeen an illegal order on its on
its face.
And he at that point finds thelittle girl who becomes Claire
(29:26):
and he then takes off with her,leaving the battle, leaving his
fellow troops he has the trooptransport so he would be leaving
them there.
So that would have violatedvarious military rules, stealing
(29:47):
property, leaving his fellowtroops behind.
So even though he did notnecessarily have to follow the
order to shoot the unarmedcivilians, he's still not
allowed to take the ship and thegirl and go home.
You then see him kind of raisingthe girl, which would raise
(30:09):
various guardianship issues.
You know, clearly there wasnever any kind of formal order
of guardianship.
He just kind of became herfather figure and it then kind
of ends with one of the firstterrorist strikes, at least from
the imperial point of view,terrorist strike on the planet
(30:31):
Naboo, which makes a lot ofsense in as much as the emperor,
senator Palpatine, was fromthat planet.
So that would have been sendinga to press the button to blow
(30:55):
up the bridge.
That would raise variousarguments as to delinquency and
other poor guardianship skills.
But he wants to see if she cando it and when he sees that she
can do it, he does do it himselfso that she doesn't have to
(31:18):
have the guilt of those peopleon her head Later in life.
I'm sure she had the guilt ofvarious other jobs that he gave
her, but had the guilt ofvarious other jobs that he gave
her.
But you know, you clearly sawwhy they meant so much to each
other because they've spent alot of time together and you
(31:41):
know it did kind of round outthe picture a lot better, I
think, as to their relationship.
Joshua Gilliland (31:49):
Well said, we do end this episode With Deidre
getting arrested, and Kind ofrightfully so.
We then begin the next episodewho else knows with Deidre
getting Interrogated, which doeshave Echoes from season One,
because that's how she met Cyrilhe was in that room, and now
(32:14):
it's her turn, uh, to be the onegetting questioned.
And you know, we have, um, justsome no-nos and an
interrogation, like you're notsupposed to touch the suspect
and I don't know how many.
How many of those lines or thephysical behavior was was, um,
(32:38):
improvised, I, I, you know, likethe, I think the finger to the
head might have been improvisedbecause she looked so surprised,
uh, by that, or it was justreally good direction and we
just have really good actors, uh, at play, uh.
But let's talk about theinterrogation and which one of
(32:59):
you would like to take deidre'sinterrogation well, I mean, I
guess she's um.
Stephen Tollafield (33:07):
She's definitely um under, definitely
under a pretty analogoussituation, as you said, with
what Cyril went through thistime, though it's interesting to
me how she has already maybeplayed through the accusations
in her head by the time they getto her, because she
(33:29):
acknowledges that she got theemail.
She should have said something.
She has like responses to allthe questions she's being asked,
but again she doesn't have alawyer, which would be her um
right in an interrogation.
She shouldn't have to be doingthat by herself.
Um, although I guess you knowthe right to representation if
you're accused of treason, Idon't know, judge, I don't know
(33:51):
if that that's sort of if you'rein some sort of an espionage
situation, if you have similarconstitutional rights were all
(34:14):
eventually given lawyers.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (34:15):
So the answer is yes, you are entitled,
but it's not necessarily doneright away, as it would have
been in the civilian aspect,because there are security
concerns and those would beexhausted before.
But eventually you would getthe right to have an attorney.
Stephen Tollafield (34:31):
Right, and if you're on US soil, soil, it's
pretty clear that you haveattorneys which is why they kept
them in guantanamo exactly, orthey, you know they interrogate
them in, you know, anothercountry altogether yeah, so yeah
, krennic, and again it's just.
Joshua Gilliland (34:49):
Krennic is such a cool character, it's neat
that we see him again and like,within 24 hours he's on the
receiving end of.
You know, like Vader chokinghim and how they treat people.
This is again when yourunderlying ideology is the
doctrine of fear.
This is not a good workenvironment for anybody because
(35:23):
admirals get force, choked andkilled on a regular basis.
So you know she does this planwithout authorization and killed
on a regular basis.
So you know she does this planwithout authorization.
She finds out about the DeathStar.
You know it's bad when Tryingto like figure out the
historical comparison to this.
(35:44):
You know, like what would havebeen like Oppenheimer showing up
and yelling at someone, like isit that level of boo-boo?
Or the Japanese side, yamamotogoing and smacking around a
lieutenant for making some veryquestionable decisions?
(36:05):
Like you have a veryhigh-ranking person come in who
had to leave his job site tosmack people around.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (36:18):
Or a general slapping someone in the
hospital ward who was sufferingfrom shell shock.
It ruined Patton's career.
Joshua Gilliland (36:32):
Uh, to some extent yeah, bradley rises up
because of that.
Uh, I mean, bradley was stilldoing well on his own, but still
bradley takes over for a reason.
And yeah, so again, there'sjust so much, so much happening
with this.
Uh, and we have clay.
(36:52):
Uh, like the stress is catchingup with her because, you know,
she goes from looking verycompetent to very ragged quickly
because she's had a rough day.
Uh, I mean that that condo isnow a dump, which probably makes
it easier to hide in.
But you know, when you'redigging equipment out of walls
(37:15):
and you've just killed someonewho raised you, I'm sure there's
some stress and she's clearlyfiguring out how do I get out of
this to pass the word.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (37:25):
So I don't do the information doesn't
die with her the word, so Idon't do the information doesn't
die with her, uh, so just justone before we escape this
episode.
One of the reasons why I think,uh, that deidre was able to
save herself, uh, from the deathpenalty and was able to, you
know, get some mercy and sent toprison in the next episode, was
(37:51):
she does give Hurt the way tofind the rebels, you know.
So maybe someone had some mercyon her for, you know, showing
that she still was the loyalImperial soldier that she was,
even when she was, you know,getting information through
(38:12):
group chats from the ImperialSecretary of Defense.
Joshua Gilliland (38:16):
Yeah, I actually I thought about this
because maybe death was too goodthat you know, if you want to
make someone an example I thinkthey're used to people dying
example, I think they're used topeople dying and sending her
off to a gulag to work to deathmight be viewed as worse because
it's a huge, huge insult,because this was someone.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (38:39):
Except no one knows that prison exists
in the imperial realm.
So I don't know how much of apunishment it is to others, but
clearly it's a worse punishmentthan death.
Joshua Gilliland (38:48):
Yeah, it's like we'll work you to death.
Uh, all of the clout that youhad is now gone.
Um, you're going to be makingwidgets for some super weapon.
That's life for you now.
Um, say goodbye to that niceapartment, the.
(39:10):
So I mean this goes.
End of the episode.
Beginning of the next one of youknow they the those on yavin
cat lutheran clea's message, andthey have a communications
blackout because they're tryingto keep yavin secret, because
Yavin can't fight the entireImperial Navy.
(39:31):
They could take out a fewfighters, they could put up a
good show, but you know, ifthere's orbital bombardment, how
long would they last?
And the answer is probably notlong.
So they have strict informationsecurity and we see our heroes
kind of sidestepping that inorder to go rescue the guy that
(39:53):
brought them all together.
So the final episode JedhaKhyber Urso we have, I think,
some of the best spycraftstorytelling of how to go save
Kleia and we get to see K2SO inall of his glory just smacking
(40:19):
people around.
That is so refreshing and it'sa good fight.
But it raises the issue of youshouldn't use people as a human
shield, like this crosses intodesecration of a corpse pretty
quickly.
Um, I don't know if you couldnecessity defense your way out
of that.
Uh, I don't know if there'scase law where that's been used,
(40:42):
as I used, you know, freddy asa human shield in order to avoid
getting shot and then throughhim.
I don't know if that would workand I don't.
Luckily, I'm not in a practicearea where that will ever be a
question I have to deal with,and, your Honor, if you haven't
(41:07):
dealt with it, that's a goodsign.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (41:08):
Yeah, I especially don't see a case
where a robot would be allowedto use a human as a shield and
get away with it.
I think that robot would bedeactivated.
Joshua Gilliland (41:22):
Yes, yes, so excellent.
Hallway battle, hallway battle.
We also see more of Saw and MonMothma with their disagreement.
That's been brewing sinceRebels, and it's also in this
one year period where Sawapparently does get massively
(41:42):
injured and loses legs and is,you know, a walking respirator.
So it's nice to actually have alittle time stamp on that,
because when we see him inRebels he's still in one piece,
all right.
So we have the U-Wing returnswith no flight plan and there's
(42:06):
all kinds of security issueswith this.
And your Honor, can you talkabout the unscheduled U-Wing
flying back in?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (42:13):
Yeah, you know he, upon returning to
the base he ends up beingconfined to quarters, which is a
punishment that is given,awaiting, you know, usually a
formal court martial or somekind of board.
It is used if you're not sent tothe brig, if you're not deemed
to be that much of a flight risk.
(42:33):
You would be confined to yourquarters and he was doing that
to await further military actionor military tribunal.
He probably would have beenguilty under the Uniform Code of
Military Justice, Article 121,which is basically taking a
property without authority to doso, because he did take both
(42:56):
K2SO and he did take the U-Wingto try to rescue his friends
from Coruscant.
He also did not have permissionto leave, so he would have been
guilty of Article 86, which isAWOL absence without leave
because he was not givenpermission to leave the planet
(43:21):
with property to go on thisunscheduled mission.
So he clearly would haveviolated the military code and
at this point the Yavin base isa formal military organization
with the rank structure, ahierarchy, and clearly he was
(43:42):
violating those laws.
He does tell them what helearned and the information that
Luthan died to provide them and, as we all know, from future
Star Wars shows we know howcrucial that information was,
(44:07):
but he is confined to quartersand told to wait there until
they decide what they're goingto do with him all makes sense.
Joshua Gilliland (44:16):
But you know, it's also so well acted and
written.
Uh, you know, we, when we have,you know, bail verse, you know
and, or, and it's you know aquestion about like well, how
did you, when would you last seehim?
It's like when I saved monmothma from your people, like
that, like those one-liners.
It's like, yeah, oh, okay, goodto know my mistake.
(44:39):
So, okay, brilliantly done.
And it's Mothma who is more onhis advocate side for letting
him go by the infirmary to seeClea.
So, yes, lots of good stuffthere.
(44:59):
Um, we have with with Penta gas,listening to, uh, the manifesto
, which I guess was a vlog.
Uh, you know that we a podcast,um, because it wasn't just like
(45:20):
some flashback audio, it was,you know, the head of the ISB
listening to this.
It's fitting that the Imperialsbasically are okay with suicide
of a high-ranking person youknow, doing a, you know, harry
Carey type type uh, move to endtheir life as a matter of
(45:43):
dignity.
Um, I thought that wasinteresting of, I need a moment
to collect my thoughts and heshoots himself, uh, again, like
we wouldn't recognize that that,um, but apparently they, they
(46:05):
did, and the officer sent tobring him in, you know calms
down the stormtroopers in thehallway, like it was code that
they had for I need a moment tocollect.
My thoughts.
Is I'm just gonna go shootmyself, uh, but if you know
that's the code, is that okay oris this malfeasance of some
kind?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (46:25):
uh, your honor, your thoughts on
that, yeah I think you know hehe's captain lagrat served with
the major for for a long timeand I think he was giving him
that professional courtesy.
Whether the captain's superiorswould see it that way is
another story, because if theywanted to question the major
(46:47):
about something they might havewanted him alive.
I don't know whereinterrogation of Padagats would
have given them any moreinformation, so they probably
would kind of let Captain Legratgo with.
Maybe you shouldn't have donethat but not any kind of formal
charges that I would see personto person and probably rebel
(47:17):
cells were playing it.
And it's a really well-writtenmanifesto and it does speak
towards, you know, smallinsurrections being sometimes
the only weapon that peoplemight have against tyranny.
(47:37):
And and it's certainly uh arewords that have have proven true
uh throughout the history of ofthis planet and in the star
wars universe yeah, we do.
Joshua Gilliland (47:52):
um, this show was really good at the small
moments and one of those smallmoments is the Vel Clea reunion
two characters that at times didnot get along and both of them
have lost a lot and they're nowchatting.
You know to the point that.
You know Vel finds a veryshell-shocked Clea just like
(48:14):
walking out into the rain.
It's like, don't it's, she's avaluable individual.
We need her around, don't justthe that that medical facility
just seems a little bitunderstaffed if a patient can
walk out confused.
You know like hospitals don'tlike that happening generally,
(48:40):
uh, but we do get, uh, you knowcassian getting sent off to the
events of rogue one, um, uh,either.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (48:52):
if you want to just like highlight any
of these parts of you know it's,you know the climax of this
well, it was nice to see cassianactually get a, a order to go
on a mission, uh, that he thenleaves on an authorized u-wing
with a flight plan, um uh to toengage in, and then we pick up
(49:13):
with him later in in in rogueone, uh, I, I love in Rogue One,
I love the.
You know just seeing Mon Marthain the mess hall with the
soldiers, and you know Deidre,as we've or I've alluded to
several times, that she's now inNakina 5 as an inmate, you know
(49:34):
sobbing and we all love thatepisode and that episode arc
back in the first season of thatprison.
You know you get to see theDeath Star nearing completion.
It really brings us all the wayto Rogue One.
And you know, as soon as Iwatched the last episode, I had
(49:57):
to watch rogue one because itjust, it just went into it so
perfectly.
Stephen Tollafield (50:02):
And and I'll leave the, the, the, uh, the
bix final moment to you, stevenyeah, well, before I get to that
, I I just want to flag that Iloved that shot of perrin in the
car with his, his um, hisdaughter's mother-in-law looking
absolutely miserable.
Before that that shot, I wascurious about how mom's daughter
(50:24):
and husband were reacting toher having fled the senate and
becoming kind of a leader of therebel alliance like it's.
We still don't know exactlywhat they're thinking, but he's
very unhappy and it couldn'thappen to a worse guy.
I'm just so glad that they justput that little um, you know,
(50:44):
carrot on top of that.
That was great um.
And then, of course, the, theclosing shot of dicks with um,
her child, her and andrew'schild is just um.
So it was so beautifully done,so moving, moving.
I think, judge, you underscoredthat.
This kind of alludes to thesunrise that Luthan will never
see so beautifully tied intothat.
(51:05):
It also visually echoed to methe image of the explosion from
the Death Star on Scarif.
That looks kind of like asunrise, that there's sort of a
parallel looking at the samething across great distance and
time, and so I thought it wasjust a really really well done
(51:26):
conclusion, but that was just aspringboard into another really
really great Star Wars story.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (51:32):
And I love seeing you know P2EMO
having a friend and literallyhaving fun and playing on the
planet and you know they're kindof playing tag or having a race
, and just to see that he kindof had a happy life at the end
was really great.
And you know, someone had toldme to watch through the credits
(51:54):
and listen to the music, and I'mglad someone did because I
probably would have noticed itotherwise.
But you know, the Andorsoundtrack is very somber and
and and and it was going as itgoes through the credits and
then it led into, you know, the,the John Williams, uh Star Wars
theme and it was, it was donein in a wonderful way because,
(52:14):
you know it, it brought that newhope uh, leading into to Rogue
One.
So it was a very, verysatisfactory, well-done
conclusion to a great, greatseason.
And yes, as Josh said at thebeginning, the bar has been
raised and everyone will comparethe future Star Wars series to
(52:41):
this benchmark.
Much like when Rogue One cameout, I think all of us were
shocked at how good it was.
It really is one of my favoriteStar Wars movies to this day,
star Wars movies to this day,and when I rewatched it after
(53:03):
this series I enjoyed it thatmuch more.
So if you haven't rewatchedRogue One to anyone listening to
this.
You really should.
Joshua Gilliland (53:15):
Rogue One is up there with Empire for me and
which one is my favorite mightdepend on my mood, blood sugar
level, how much sleep I've had,because there are times when it
goes to number one and there aretimes when Empire goes back to
number one, but it's just soexceptionally well done and the
(53:39):
way that they made this serieswas done with love.
We have compelling bad guys.
They're not just doofuses oradmirals getting and admirals in
general is just getting killedleft and right, like they are
formidable bad guys and youactually are interested in them.
(53:59):
Like re-watching the original.
Tarkin's a very interestingcharacter.
We don't get a ton of time withhim but we have enough because
it's Peter Cushing's.
He's a threat great actor.
They have meaningfulexploration with him, but not a
lot because at the end he'satomized and so we don't get a
(54:24):
bad guy like that.
Again, thinking to the prequels, christopher Lee is Christopher
Lee, very formidable and it'slike wanted more time with him
on screen Again.
Formidable villain and this isjust so well done and
(54:50):
provocative and a lot to thinkabout with this story, which is
again it's a home run they didsuch a good job with this and
subtle references to fandomthroughout it with other
characters and everything else.
(55:13):
And if the only thing that we'recomplaining about is Luthen
should have had a self-destructin his office, that's pretty
good.
He didn't have an exit plan.
Other than that, that's theonly thing that we're
complaining about.
He didn't have an exit plan.
So again, fantastic show.
So with that, everyone I wantto thank all my co-hosts that
(55:36):
have helped on this journey,some who aren't here tonight,
but they've all went on thisadventure and stay tuned for
more because we're looking atsome other shows to cover this
summer.
And until then, everyone, staysafe, stay healthy and stay
geeky, take care.
Good evening or good day.
My name is Joshua Gilliland.
I'm one of the foundingattorneys of the Legal Geeks.
This is our final broadcast onseason two, arc four of Andor.
With me for this adventure isretired New York State Judge
(00:25):
Matthew Shrino and StephenTollefield.
Gentlemen, how are you eachdoing?
Starting with your honor, I amfine.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (00:34):
Thank you very much, Josh Excellent.
Stephen Tollafield (00:37):
Stephen, how about you?
Good thanks, Excited to bringit on home.
Yes, One of the best seriesever as far as I'm concerned.
One of the best series ever asfar as I'm concerned and unlike
some series, we don't have thatquestion, you know.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (00:49):
Will there be a season three?
Joshua Gilliland (00:51):
right, season three is the Rogue One movie
yeah, and just the gauntletsthrown down for keep writing
good stuff next we've.
You know the joke is, andorruined Star Wars by being good
and I just set a really high barfor everyone going forward.
(01:12):
So you know, the bar is set.
Take it from here, all youwonderful creative types.
So this arc includes Make itStop who Else Knows.
And Jedha Khyber Erso.
All right, so it's a year afterthe Gorman Massacre.
Nodes make it stop who elsenodes.
Anjetta Kyber Urso.
All right, so it's a year afterthe Gorman Massacre.
We have Yavin really up andrunning.
And here we are on how RogueOne happens.
(01:38):
Effectively, this story takesplace probably over a couple
days, maybe a day, uh, maybe aday.
And uh, so make it stop issupervisor lonnie young wants
out and he's like hey, I youknow he had uh dead ramiros, uh
code cylinder and was able tolog in for over three hours.
(02:00):
And that raises some big infoissues about unauthorized
computer access.
Your Honor, can you talk to usabout computer trespass, at
least the New York version of it?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (02:12):
Yes, in New York Lonnie would have been
guilty of computer trespass,which is a Class E felony in New
York.
A person is guilty of computertrespass under Section 156.10 of
our penal law when he or sheknowingly uses causes to be used
or accesses a computer,computer service or computer
(02:32):
network without authorization.
And although he did haveimperial authorization to enter
imperial networks, deidre haddifferent access levels than he
did and he was accessing partsof the computer that he did not
have access to.
He probably also would havebeen guilty of unauthorized use
of a computer, which is amisdemeanor under 156.05 of the
(02:58):
New York Penal Law.
A person is guilty ofunauthorized use of a computer
when he or she knowingly uses,causes to be used or accesses a
computer, computer service orcomputer network without
authorization.
And again, although he had someaccess to the network, he
didn't have all the same levelsthat Deidre did, and that would
bring us to the Federal ComputerFraud and Abuse Act.
(03:20):
And Stephen, those were yournotes, so you could take it from
there.
Stephen Tollafield (03:24):
Yeah, there's federal dimensions too.
Lots of states like New Yorkhave hacking and cybercrime
statutes, but the federal lawincludes a section that's
specific to espionage that ifyou access a computer that has
sensitive federal data on it andtake that data and give it to
someone who's unauthorized tohave it, that is a specific
(03:46):
violation of the crime, amongother things in the CFAA.
But if you get convicted ofthat espionage violation with
any other violation, it's up to20 years in prison because of
that espionage.
It's not really an enhancement,it's like a separate crime.
But yeah, and similarly, as youpointed out, judge, it's not
(04:11):
just accessing a computer system, it can be exceeding your
authorized access, not just thephysical act of putting your
fingers on a keyboard thatdoesn't belong to you.
Joshua Gilliland (04:24):
So similar in that way and california has an
interesting wrinkle on itbecause it'd actually be a form
of identity theft because helogged, you know, lonnie logs in
as miro and so that would raisethis like false impersonation
element of it, uh, as well.
And so with california that'sactually one of the elements
(04:47):
that we have for for an identitytheft, because he's logged in
as her.
So it's a all kinds of funwrinkles on how different states
or the federal government would, uh, you know, prosecute this.
But this highlights, you know,what the Force wills, because
(05:10):
without Deidre being this packrat going after all this
information and then Lonnielogging in and finding out what
she knows, that's how theRebellion ultimately learns
about the Death Star and kicksoff everything that we will see
in the Skywalker saga, or atleast the original Star Wars as
(05:31):
we enjoy it.
So without Miro being obsessedabout finding access, none of
the original trilogy would havehappened.
So it's as the force wills itand I just I find that
hysterical on on how we get hereyeah, I haven't thought about
(05:54):
it that way, but she's the looselip that sinks the entire
empire pretty much.
That's amazing yeah, without her, luke would have stayed on
tatooine.
So you're like there would havebeen because Luke would have
stayed on Tatooine.
So you know like there wouldhave been because the Rebellion
would have never found out aboutthe Death Star until it was too
late and maybe it would havehappened in some other way.
But you know, the entire pointof what happens in Rogue One has
(06:21):
to have these events take place, which means without her being
obsessed.
She's the causation.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (06:31):
And with a bit of a spoiler alert to
later on in the arc, I'm surethat when she's rescued from the
holding cell for which she's inby the rebellion, her defense
lawyer might be able to raiseall of these mitigating factors
to try to get her war crimescase dismissed.
(06:51):
But we'll leave that for futuremoot courts probably.
Joshua Gilliland (06:55):
Yes, yes, one day at a time, but we have her
again deciding to raid Luthan'sart store and this gets you know
, I'm a civil litigator Beforethat let's discuss the witness
protection program that Luthanputs Lonnie into.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (07:19):
Yes yes , permanent witness protection.
Joshua Gilliland (07:24):
Yeah, this is dark because, your Honor, you
raised it.
Why don't you take it?
And then I want to share someof my thoughts on this.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (07:32):
As soon as Lonnie spills the beans, so
to speak, as to what he foundout, Luthan's answer to make
sure that he tells no one elseor doesn't become a weak link is
to shoot him at point blankrange and kill him, and he would
clearly be guilty of, in NewYork, common law murder, which
(07:56):
is murder in the second degreebecause he did willfully cause
the death of another person.
Arguably, if the ISB is apolice force, that could be
murder in the first degree inNew York, because the murder of
a law enforcement officer wouldbe murder in the first degree in
New York.
Joshua Gilliland (08:16):
I'm surprised Luthan didn't have an extraction
plan and kind of disappointedin him Like he knew this day was
coming.
Like when it comes time to,we're going to eventually have
to bail.
So how do we get everybody out?
And on one level it would besuper lazy if the plan was just
(08:39):
to kill the guy who's been auseful informant.
That's bad for morale.
That's not a good way torecruit more people is if you
just off people.
It's one thing to have to makea sacrifice of a team in order
to not blow a deep coveroperative, but to have no
(09:02):
extraction plan, uh is well,that's just weird.
And I don't know if that meansthat they're just running out of
resources, that they knew thatthey wouldn't be able to get
everybody out, uh.
Stephen Tollafield (09:16):
But or maybe they didn't.
Maybe the idea of trying tosecure his wife and child was
just too much of a complicationbecause they could extract him
and leave them behind.
But then they are hostages.
To get him, to draw him backout, or trying to gather them
and take them with him is kindof risky proposition too.
Joshua Gilliland (09:38):
But Luthan is really good at preparing, so why
not have a plan for that?
Or you know, lani, as the ISPagent you know, you know, have
the wife go, all right.
So you're gonna go visit, youknow, your parents on planet x
or whatever, and that's when Imake the move to get out of here
and we rendezvous someplaceelse.
(09:59):
Uh, but that wouldn't mean thewife knowing, which again is
another factor to this, but shewould still be a loose end, you
know, for for escaping.
Stephen Tollafield (10:12):
So it's just not a great situation?
Joshua Gilliland (10:16):
no, no it just it just bothered me because,
you know, thinking back to everyJames Bond type movie, it's
like you have a plan to get outthe people that that have helped
you, because if you're tryingto build a rebellion, if you're
just bumping off the people thatare helping you, that just
seems to not be great.
(10:37):
I mean it highlights he didhave to adapt the plans of his
enemy but still, man like itjust anyway.
It anyway just just seems badfor morale yes, the whole.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (10:50):
You know the.
The weakest part that I that Ireally felt in this arc was that
lack of a of an escape plan.
You know, to to to when the gigwas up and they kind of saw it
happening at that point.
Um, not even to have his, hisart gallery, like you know,
rigged to blow up.
(11:10):
Uh, you know he was pouringacid to destroy uh computer
files and stuff.
It seemed a lot less than thanhe would have planned.
Uh, his ship, which we all grewto love, you know, to see the
Empire aboard it and like,looking through it, you know, I
would have thought that he wouldhave really had every piece of
(11:32):
that you know detonated andblown up and taken a bunch of
Empire Imperial people to to towith them.
And the only thing I can comeup with is maybe he wanted to
lull the Empire into a bit of afalse sense of security in that
we got them and that's all thatthere is to this particular big,
(11:54):
you know, rebellion cell andand we can relax a little bit
and and that would give theother people the chance to do
something big, but that that wasthe best I could come up with
yeah, I, yeah, you think youwould have a detonator, you know
again a thermal detonator, andit's like all right and bye-bye,
like push the button and thatbaby blows, that's it, we're
(12:19):
done.
Joshua Gilliland (12:20):
Next, that's yeah, I mean I.
That's the only thing that Ithought was weird, because he is
very prepared and having theability to go like, yeah, this
is over, it's gonna blow up now,um, so we have deidre decide to
(12:41):
launch a raid for a missionthat she's not on, this smacks
of overreach.
I mean, it's one thing to bethe super dedicated employee and
you're putting in extra time,but when it's not in your lane
and you blow an operation,that's, you know, for the people
that have the doctrine of fearthat we make people disappear,
(13:04):
that seems to be a weirdposition for her to be in, like
because it's it's a problem uh,she did it to memorialize cyril.
Stephen Tollafield (13:13):
In honor of cyril, she's gonna go in guns
blazing without under the radaryeah it.
Joshua Gilliland (13:19):
Just she learned the wrong lesson from
that relationship of.
So this is what got myboyfriend into this bad, bad
life choice.
Luckily we end up together, butbecause of my life choices, he
also ends up dead.
Why?
(13:39):
Why invest more?
Like you know, nobody learnsthe lesson of like, well, I'm
going to go into a differentline of work or hey, I want to
go get stationed here and not bepart of this anymore.
No, she's obsessed and thatultimately leads to the
destruction of the Death Star.
So, whoops.
But it's a brilliantly actedscene.
(14:05):
Like they, you know the, theactors just swimming for the
fences.
Uh, you know, one of you mademade note of the great quote
only two pieces of questionableprovidence in this gallery.
Any guesses?
Uh, uh.
Then one of you also raised theissue was was deitra's
(14:26):
execution of the arrestnegligence, malfeasance or
treasonable?
Uh, because she allows, youknow, evidence to get destroyed.
Who, who would like to bringthat on?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (14:40):
you know, she, she, she.
Clearly you capture and securethe scene before you do anything
else.
And she gave him time todestroy evidence and to you know
what he thought wasaccomplished, killing himself
that he couldn't be used to test.
So you know, if you're going togo off book and try a mission,
(15:04):
you got to really do it well andshe butchered it and that's.
You know.
The reason that her fate iswhat it is in the show
ultimately is because the wayshe handled this botched
operation surprised they justdidn't shoot her, because that's
(15:29):
now, the empire's not exactlyshy in shooting those who, who
screw up.
Joshua Gilliland (15:32):
So, uh, but they also I mean star wars,
rebels gets into this with theway that the empire set itself
up for failure by havingofficers compete with each other
and, uh, again in in rebels.
That's what leads to commandersato's demise.
Uh, but it really does.
You know, take out an imperialadmiral and throw and throw
(15:55):
thrawn's plans into um disarray,uh, but again, like it was
something the nazis did as wellof, like they don't play well
together and they set thiscompetition factor, which again
sounds very much rule of two forgetting people to compete and
fight, but it's not good formorale.
(16:19):
Luthen's suicide attempt Well,suicide, we don't like that.
But you do think she, he wouldhave had like the, the tooth or
something that could have beenthe, the quick exit.
Uh, it would illuminate a giantstorytelling, uh opportunity,
but uh, you think there wouldhave been.
(16:41):
He would have had a better exitplan for himself.
Not to be critical of the storybecause it's still brilliantly
done, but again, these are veryprepared people who now we're
looking like they weren't readyfor this contingency.
And that's just kind of weirdfor them.
So we have the entire operationin the hospital, you know,
(17:08):
breaking in impersonating anurse and your Honor.
There's a lot of New York codecited here.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (17:39):
So I have a mercy killing of him of
criminal trespass in the firstdegree, because not only did she
trespass in a hospital withoutcause to be there or authority
to be in various parts of thatbuilding, she did possess
firearms at various times andshe did also use incendiary
(17:59):
devices, so that would havebumped it up to the felony level
of trespass.
She also would have been guiltyof criminal impersonation in
the second degree to to makesure that they thought that she
was a a member of the staff atthe hospital so that she was
(18:32):
able to get access to parts ofthe hospital.
That she was not, that she didnot have any authority to go
there.
She also took whether it's it'skidnapping or not, I think it's
simply the fact that she kindof did take ET's grandmother
without her authority orpermission to take Fiazza.
(18:56):
So I think she might have beenguilty of kidnapping in the
second degree for abducting ofanother person.
Stephen Tollafield (19:04):
Although she seems like she's having the
time of her life.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (19:07):
She had a great time she was singing
and humming, you know, no harmcame to her.
Uh, you know, in the realm ofthings I can certainly see a
jury acquitting her of thatcharge it's a victimless crime
yeah, but but yeah, she was agreat.
(19:27):
You know there was a lot ofheavy things going on as she was
gaining access and it reallydid lighten it a bit.
I love that they used you know,that particular alien.
You know, she, she, she was agreat little character there.
And then she does get to Lutherand she is able to kill Luther
(19:53):
so that he would not be able tobe used by the empire.
They are currently.
(20:24):
They literally yesterday justpassed the legislature and it's
on now the desk of the governorin New York the New York Medical
Aid in Dying Act, which issimilar to the Oregon Death with
Dignity Act, which would allowfor mercy killings in certain
situations.
The Catholic Church in New Yorkis very much against it and has
been fighting this bill foryears, but there is a pretty
good chance that New York willbe passing this bill that was
just passed yesterday by the NewYork State Senate and is now on
the desk of New York Governor,kathy Hochul, who has to decide
(20:49):
whether or not she's going tosign it or veto it and would
allow, you know, a assistance,basically an assisted suicide
type of bill.
Stephen Tollafield (21:02):
Interesting.
California's had the End ofLife Option Act for about almost
10 years now, as 2016 waspassed, but it's certainly
something where the person who'sterminally ill has to make like
two oral requests and a writtenrequest.
There has to be sort of nocoercion and it's a prescription
for the person to end their ownlife.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (21:24):
You can't like if someone's like in
a coma, you can't have someonelike, just murder them and
clearly Luther was in noposition to, although I think it
would have been very clear thatthat would have been his desire
.
He was certainly not able toexpress that desire, that desire
(21:44):
at that time to, to, to, totake his, his own life.
But he, you know, he, he, hetried to take his life to begin
with but he could have, you know, arguably changed his mind.
But you know, she, she wassuccessful and, and you know, in
in a very tough situation thingto pull off.
(22:06):
I mean, even so, that when youknow, when they first, when the
empire was first looking to seehow it was done, you know they
thought it was multiple peoplebecause you know they could not
phantom how just one personwould be able to pull this off
by themselves.
Stephen Tollafield (22:21):
I think it was terrifying.
She was like Darth Vader, theend of Rogue One.
She was just like relentlessand like Her facial expressions.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (22:31):
You know there was just such a blank
her.
Her eyes told a story, but buther face was blank and it just.
You know she's a relatively newuh actor and and she certainly
uh will have many roles afterthis.
She played an incrediblecharacter throughout the series
(22:54):
and this whole encounter wasincredible, I thought.
Joshua Gilliland (22:59):
Going back to the California law, it has to be
something terminal, like so it.
You know it can't be.
I'm depressed.
Like it has to be a terminalillness that there's no recovery
from and the doctor's still notthe one pulling the trigger for
(23:19):
it so he could recover from.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (23:37):
And the New York bill is a significant
likelihood of death within sixmonths, so it's also a terminal
death with dignity act.
Joshua Gilliland (23:47):
But that raises the issue that we've seen
with this before of operationalsecurity.
Like this world of spycraft isnot functioning under anything
we would see as legal, becauseduress is not a reason to kill
someone like it's.
That's not justification orsaying we have to keep the
(24:07):
secret.
So i'm'm going to start killingfriends, which is a theme
throughout Rogue One and all ofAndor, with different people
getting put down in order foroperational security.
So the rebellion survives.
From a spy story perspective,that's the right call for them.
Stephen Tollafield (24:28):
From a legal perspective, it's not
defendable uh, I'm gonna put inmy metal medical directive that
if I'm ever at the business endof a interrogation droid, feel
free to off me.
Joshua Gilliland (24:40):
Just pull the plug oh, boy, uh, that is.
That's a lot to unpack there,man.
Um, but luckily we don't havethose yet.
So, uh, I don't know ifsomething in silicon valley is
(25:00):
being developed as we speak, butuh, you know those, those
advanced robotics that look likescary dogs that you know, maybe
, again you know, maybe there'ssome engineer who watches this
and go like I could make that,and if that's your reaction,
that's not a good reaction of Ican make something terrifying.
Judge Matthew Sci (25:21):
Interestingly enough, those dogs that you
speak of, which are made byBoston Dynamics.
They entered, and the companyentered America's Got Talent
last night and it had five ofthose dogs doing a dance routine
.
One of them broke down in themiddle of the dance routine, but
the other four completed thedance routine but it is one of
(25:42):
the cutest things you've everseen.
So if you want Google, bostonDynamics, america's Got Talent
and you can be entertained bythose dogs doing a dance routine
.
Joshua Gilliland (25:54):
Yeah, it's what.
When you see a droid builderwith R2-D2 at a con, little
children will come up and wantto hug that R2 unit.
I've seen ladies kiss the R2unit.
People feel very happy whenthey see an r2d2 rolling in.
Sure, it's remote control, butpeople naturally think that's
(26:17):
one of the good guys.
The murder robot is terrifyingand let's not normalize the
murder robot by making it do adance routine.
That's going to go like hey,it's all cool, these, these
terrifying things, can uh put ondinner in a show for you.
Now we do get flashbacks whichlooks like they go to naboo and
(26:40):
one of their flashbacks, and weget to see uh luthan, uh, just
having a.
His name is spelled the otherdirection, so uh, but we do see
the beginning of them playingspy and uh.
So we have, uh, you know likehe, he doesn't follow uh lawful
(27:03):
orders.
Uh, well, let's just say hedoesn't follow orders.
Whether or not they they'relawful is a question of.
An illegal order is illegal onits face is what case law says.
And that goes back to, likeAaron Burr prosecution of, like
(27:23):
it's clearly looks illegal Caselaw talks about.
Case law talks about then,after World War II, I think it
might have been the late 40s,into the 1950s, I don't remember
for sure, but it's someplace inthe European theater and the
higher ranking officer, theyhave an individual who's face
(27:47):
down on the ground and thesubordinate military personnel
is told to shoot the person inthe back of the head.
That person does so and thendoes the I was just following
orders defense, and that doesn'tfly, because shooting someone
(28:07):
who's face down in the back is,on its face, an illegal order
and it's repugnant to law tohave to follow an illegal order.
So was what Luthan was getting?
Were those illegal orders?
Because it looks like he's inthe Imperial infantry doing his
(28:29):
thing.
It's like he's in the Imperialinfantry doing his thing.
Your Honor, you have experiencein military law.
What's your view on SergeantLuthan's failure to follow
orders?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (28:43):
Yeah, he was an NCO or sergeant or a
non-commissioned officer.
He also was drinking and it wasclearly suffering from being
shell-shocked because he keptsaying to himself make it stop,
make it stop, as the shellingwas continuing.
But drinking while on duty andduring an active mission would
have violated various militaryregulations.
(29:05):
When he was ordered to tostraff the ridge, it seems like
that was probably the killing ofcivilians that were defenseless
and that probably would havebeen an illegal order on its on
its face.
And he at that point finds thelittle girl who becomes Claire
(29:26):
and he then takes off with her,leaving the battle, leaving his
fellow troops he has the trooptransport so he would be leaving
them there.
So that would have violatedvarious military rules, stealing
(29:47):
property, leaving his fellowtroops behind.
So even though he did notnecessarily have to follow the
order to shoot the unarmedcivilians, he's still not
allowed to take the ship and thegirl and go home.
You then see him kind of raisingthe girl, which would raise
(30:09):
various guardianship issues.
You know, clearly there wasnever any kind of formal order
of guardianship.
He just kind of became herfather figure and it then kind
of ends with one of the firstterrorist strikes, at least from
the imperial point of view,terrorist strike on the planet
(30:31):
Naboo, which makes a lot ofsense in as much as the emperor,
senator Palpatine, was fromthat planet.
So that would have been sendinga to press the button to blow
(30:55):
up the bridge.
That would raise variousarguments as to delinquency and
other poor guardianship skills.
But he wants to see if she cando it and when he sees that she
can do it, he does do it himselfso that she doesn't have to
(31:18):
have the guilt of those peopleon her head Later in life.
I'm sure she had the guilt ofvarious other jobs that he gave
her, but had the guilt ofvarious other jobs that he gave
her.
But you know, you clearly sawwhy they meant so much to each
other because they've spent alot of time together and you
(31:41):
know it did kind of round outthe picture a lot better, I
think, as to their relationship.
Joshua Gilliland (31:49):
Well said, we do end this episode With Deidre
getting arrested, and Kind ofrightfully so.
We then begin the next episodewho else knows with Deidre
getting Interrogated, which doeshave Echoes from season One,
because that's how she met Cyrilhe was in that room, and now
(32:14):
it's her turn, uh, to be the onegetting questioned.
And you know, we have, um, justsome no-nos and an
interrogation, like you're notsupposed to touch the suspect
and I don't know how many.
How many of those lines or thephysical behavior was was, um,
(32:38):
improvised, I, I, you know, likethe, I think the finger to the
head might have been improvisedbecause she looked so surprised,
uh, by that, or it was justreally good direction and we
just have really good actors, uh, at play, uh.
But let's talk about theinterrogation and which one of
(32:59):
you would like to take deidre'sinterrogation well, I mean, I
guess she's um.
Stephen Tollafield (33:07):
She's definitely um under, definitely
under a pretty analogoussituation, as you said, with
what Cyril went through thistime, though it's interesting to
me how she has already maybeplayed through the accusations
in her head by the time they getto her, because she
(33:29):
acknowledges that she got theemail.
She should have said something.
She has like responses to allthe questions she's being asked,
but again she doesn't have alawyer, which would be her um
right in an interrogation.
She shouldn't have to be doingthat by herself.
Um, although I guess you knowthe right to representation if
you're accused of treason, Idon't know, judge, I don't know
(33:51):
if that that's sort of if you'rein some sort of an espionage
situation, if you have similarconstitutional rights were all
(34:14):
eventually given lawyers.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (34:15):
So the answer is yes, you are entitled,
but it's not necessarily doneright away, as it would have
been in the civilian aspect,because there are security
concerns and those would beexhausted before.
But eventually you would getthe right to have an attorney.
Stephen Tollafield (34:31):
Right, and if you're on US soil, soil, it's
pretty clear that you haveattorneys which is why they kept
them in guantanamo exactly, orthey, you know they interrogate
them in, you know, anothercountry altogether yeah, so yeah
, krennic, and again it's just.
Joshua Gilliland (34:49):
Krennic is such a cool character, it's neat
that we see him again and like,within 24 hours he's on the
receiving end of.
You know, like Vader chokinghim and how they treat people.
This is again when yourunderlying ideology is the
doctrine of fear.
This is not a good workenvironment for anybody because
(35:23):
admirals get force, choked andkilled on a regular basis.
So you know she does this planwithout authorization and killed
on a regular basis.
So you know she does this planwithout authorization.
She finds out about the DeathStar.
You know it's bad when Tryingto like figure out the
historical comparison to this.
(35:44):
You know, like what would havebeen like Oppenheimer showing up
and yelling at someone, like isit that level of boo-boo?
Or the Japanese side, yamamotogoing and smacking around a
lieutenant for making some veryquestionable decisions?
(36:05):
Like you have a veryhigh-ranking person come in who
had to leave his job site tosmack people around.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (36:18):
Or a general slapping someone in the
hospital ward who was sufferingfrom shell shock.
It ruined Patton's career.
Joshua Gilliland (36:32):
Uh, to some extent yeah, bradley rises up
because of that.
Uh, I mean, bradley was stilldoing well on his own, but still
bradley takes over for a reason.
And yeah, so again, there'sjust so much, so much happening
with this.
Uh, and we have clay.
(36:52):
Uh, like the stress is catchingup with her because, you know,
she goes from looking verycompetent to very ragged quickly
because she's had a rough day.
Uh, I mean that that condo isnow a dump, which probably makes
it easier to hide in.
But you know, when you'redigging equipment out of walls
(37:15):
and you've just killed someonewho raised you, I'm sure there's
some stress and she's clearlyfiguring out how do I get out of
this to pass the word.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (37:25):
So I don't do the information doesn't
die with her the word, so Idon't do the information doesn't
die with her, uh, so just justone before we escape this
episode.
One of the reasons why I think,uh, that deidre was able to
save herself, uh, from the deathpenalty and was able to, you
know, get some mercy and sent toprison in the next episode, was
(37:51):
she does give Hurt the way tofind the rebels, you know.
So maybe someone had some mercyon her for, you know, showing
that she still was the loyalImperial soldier that she was,
even when she was, you know,getting information through
(38:12):
group chats from the ImperialSecretary of Defense.
Joshua Gilliland (38:16):
Yeah, I actually I thought about this
because maybe death was too goodthat you know, if you want to
make someone an example I thinkthey're used to people dying
example, I think they're used topeople dying and sending her
off to a gulag to work to deathmight be viewed as worse because
it's a huge, huge insult,because this was someone.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (38:39):
Except no one knows that prison exists
in the imperial realm.
So I don't know how much of apunishment it is to others, but
clearly it's a worse punishmentthan death.
Joshua Gilliland (38:48):
Yeah, it's like we'll work you to death.
Uh, all of the clout that youhad is now gone.
Um, you're going to be makingwidgets for some super weapon.
That's life for you now.
Um, say goodbye to that niceapartment, the.
(39:10):
So I mean this goes.
End of the episode.
Beginning of the next one of youknow they the those on yavin
cat lutheran clea's message, andthey have a communications
blackout because they're tryingto keep yavin secret, because
Yavin can't fight the entireImperial Navy.
(39:31):
They could take out a fewfighters, they could put up a
good show, but you know, ifthere's orbital bombardment, how
long would they last?
And the answer is probably notlong.
So they have strict informationsecurity and we see our heroes
kind of sidestepping that inorder to go rescue the guy that
(39:53):
brought them all together.
So the final episode JedhaKhyber Urso we have, I think,
some of the best spycraftstorytelling of how to go save
Kleia and we get to see K2SO inall of his glory just smacking
(40:19):
people around.
That is so refreshing and it'sa good fight.
But it raises the issue of youshouldn't use people as a human
shield, like this crosses intodesecration of a corpse pretty
quickly.
Um, I don't know if you couldnecessity defense your way out
of that.
Uh, I don't know if there'scase law where that's been used,
(40:42):
as I used, you know, freddy asa human shield in order to avoid
getting shot and then throughhim.
I don't know if that would workand I don't.
Luckily, I'm not in a practicearea where that will ever be a
question I have to deal with,and, your Honor, if you haven't
(41:07):
dealt with it, that's a goodsign.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (41:08):
Yeah, I especially don't see a case
where a robot would be allowedto use a human as a shield and
get away with it.
I think that robot would bedeactivated.
Joshua Gilliland (41:22):
Yes, yes, so excellent.
Hallway battle, hallway battle.
We also see more of Saw and MonMothma with their disagreement.
That's been brewing sinceRebels, and it's also in this
one year period where Sawapparently does get massively
(41:42):
injured and loses legs and is,you know, a walking respirator.
So it's nice to actually have alittle time stamp on that,
because when we see him inRebels he's still in one piece,
all right.
So we have the U-Wing returnswith no flight plan and there's
(42:06):
all kinds of security issueswith this.
And your Honor, can you talkabout the unscheduled U-Wing
flying back in?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (42:13):
Yeah, you know he, upon returning to
the base he ends up beingconfined to quarters, which is a
punishment that is given,awaiting, you know, usually a
formal court martial or somekind of board.
It is used if you're not sent tothe brig, if you're not deemed
to be that much of a flight risk.
(42:33):
You would be confined to yourquarters and he was doing that
to await further military actionor military tribunal.
He probably would have beenguilty under the Uniform Code of
Military Justice, Article 121,which is basically taking a
property without authority to doso, because he did take both
(42:56):
K2SO and he did take the U-Wingto try to rescue his friends
from Coruscant.
He also did not have permissionto leave, so he would have been
guilty of Article 86, which isAWOL absence without leave
because he was not givenpermission to leave the planet
(43:21):
with property to go on thisunscheduled mission.
So he clearly would haveviolated the military code and
at this point the Yavin base isa formal military organization
with the rank structure, ahierarchy, and clearly he was
(43:42):
violating those laws.
He does tell them what helearned and the information that
Luthan died to provide them and, as we all know, from future
Star Wars shows we know howcrucial that information was,
(44:07):
but he is confined to quartersand told to wait there until
they decide what they're goingto do with him all makes sense.
Joshua Gilliland (44:16):
But you know, it's also so well acted and
written.
Uh, you know, we, when we have,you know, bail verse, you know
and, or, and it's you know aquestion about like well, how
did you, when would you last seehim?
It's like when I saved monmothma from your people, like
that, like those one-liners.
It's like, yeah, oh, okay, goodto know my mistake.
(44:39):
So, okay, brilliantly done.
And it's Mothma who is more onhis advocate side for letting
him go by the infirmary to seeClea.
So, yes, lots of good stuffthere.
(44:59):
Um, we have with with Penta gas,listening to, uh, the manifesto
, which I guess was a vlog.
Uh, you know that we a podcast,um, because it wasn't just like
(45:20):
some flashback audio, it was,you know, the head of the ISB
listening to this.
It's fitting that the Imperialsbasically are okay with suicide
of a high-ranking person youknow, doing a, you know, harry
Carey type type uh, move to endtheir life as a matter of
(45:43):
dignity.
Um, I thought that wasinteresting of, I need a moment
to collect my thoughts and heshoots himself, uh, again, like
we wouldn't recognize that that,um, but apparently they, they
(46:05):
did, and the officer sent tobring him in, you know calms
down the stormtroopers in thehallway, like it was code that
they had for I need a moment tocollect.
My thoughts.
Is I'm just gonna go shootmyself, uh, but if you know
that's the code, is that okay oris this malfeasance of some
kind?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (46:25):
uh, your honor, your thoughts on
that, yeah I think you know hehe's captain lagrat served with
the major for for a long timeand I think he was giving him
that professional courtesy.
Whether the captain's superiorswould see it that way is
another story, because if theywanted to question the major
(46:47):
about something they might havewanted him alive.
I don't know whereinterrogation of Padagats would
have given them any moreinformation, so they probably
would kind of let Captain Legratgo with.
Maybe you shouldn't have donethat but not any kind of formal
charges that I would see personto person and probably rebel
(47:17):
cells were playing it.
And it's a really well-writtenmanifesto and it does speak
towards, you know, smallinsurrections being sometimes
the only weapon that peoplemight have against tyranny.
(47:37):
And and it's certainly uh arewords that have have proven true
uh throughout the history of ofthis planet and in the star
wars universe yeah, we do.
Joshua Gilliland (47:52):
um, this show was really good at the small
moments and one of those smallmoments is the Vel Clea reunion
two characters that at times didnot get along and both of them
have lost a lot and they're nowchatting.
You know to the point that.
You know Vel finds a veryshell-shocked Clea just like
(48:14):
walking out into the rain.
It's like, don't it's, she's avaluable individual.
We need her around, don't justthe that that medical facility
just seems a little bitunderstaffed if a patient can
walk out confused.
You know like hospitals don'tlike that happening generally,
(48:40):
uh, but we do get, uh, you knowcassian getting sent off to the
events of rogue one, um, uh,either.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (48:52):
if you want to just like highlight any
of these parts of you know it's,you know the climax of this
well, it was nice to see cassianactually get a, a order to go
on a mission, uh, that he thenleaves on an authorized u-wing
with a flight plan, um uh to toengage in, and then we pick up
(49:13):
with him later in in in rogueone, uh, I, I love in Rogue One,
I love the.
You know just seeing Mon Marthain the mess hall with the
soldiers, and you know Deidre,as we've or I've alluded to
several times, that she's now inNakina 5 as an inmate, you know
(49:34):
sobbing and we all love thatepisode and that episode arc
back in the first season of thatprison.
You know you get to see theDeath Star nearing completion.
It really brings us all the wayto Rogue One.
And you know, as soon as Iwatched the last episode, I had
(49:57):
to watch rogue one because itjust, it just went into it so
perfectly.
Stephen Tollafield (50:02):
And and I'll leave the, the, the, uh, the
bix final moment to you, stevenyeah, well, before I get to that
, I I just want to flag that Iloved that shot of perrin in the
car with his, his um, hisdaughter's mother-in-law looking
absolutely miserable.
Before that that shot, I wascurious about how mom's daughter
(50:24):
and husband were reacting toher having fled the senate and
becoming kind of a leader of therebel alliance like it's.
We still don't know exactlywhat they're thinking, but he's
very unhappy and it couldn'thappen to a worse guy.
I'm just so glad that they justput that little um, you know,
(50:44):
carrot on top of that.
That was great um.
And then, of course, the, theclosing shot of dicks with um,
her child, her and andrew'schild is just um.
So it was so beautifully done,so moving, moving.
I think, judge, you underscoredthat.
This kind of alludes to thesunrise that Luthan will never
see so beautifully tied intothat.
(51:05):
It also visually echoed to methe image of the explosion from
the Death Star on Scarif.
That looks kind of like asunrise, that there's sort of a
parallel looking at the samething across great distance and
time, and so I thought it wasjust a really really well done
(51:26):
conclusion, but that was just aspringboard into another really
really great Star Wars story.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (51:32):
And I love seeing you know P2EMO
having a friend and literallyhaving fun and playing on the
planet and you know they're kindof playing tag or having a race
, and just to see that he kindof had a happy life at the end
was really great.
And you know, someone had toldme to watch through the credits
(51:54):
and listen to the music, and I'mglad someone did because I
probably would have noticed itotherwise.
But you know, the Andorsoundtrack is very somber and
and and and it was going as itgoes through the credits and
then it led into, you know, the,the John Williams, uh Star Wars
theme and it was, it was donein in a wonderful way because,
(52:14):
you know it, it brought that newhope uh, leading into to Rogue
One.
So it was a very, verysatisfactory, well-done
conclusion to a great, greatseason.
And yes, as Josh said at thebeginning, the bar has been
raised and everyone will comparethe future Star Wars series to
(52:41):
this benchmark.
Much like when Rogue One cameout, I think all of us were
shocked at how good it was.
It really is one of my favoriteStar Wars movies to this day,
star Wars movies to this day,and when I rewatched it after
(53:03):
this series I enjoyed it thatmuch more.
So if you haven't rewatchedRogue One to anyone listening to
this.
You really should.
Joshua Gilliland (53:15):
Rogue One is up there with Empire for me and
which one is my favorite mightdepend on my mood, blood sugar
level, how much sleep I've had,because there are times when it
goes to number one and there aretimes when Empire goes back to
number one, but it's just soexceptionally well done and the
(53:39):
way that they made this serieswas done with love.
We have compelling bad guys.
They're not just doofuses oradmirals getting and admirals in
general is just getting killedleft and right, like they are
formidable bad guys and youactually are interested in them.
(53:59):
Like re-watching the original.
Tarkin's a very interestingcharacter.
We don't get a ton of time withhim but we have enough because
it's Peter Cushing's.
He's a threat great actor.
They have meaningfulexploration with him, but not a
lot because at the end he'satomized and so we don't get a
(54:24):
bad guy like that.
Again, thinking to the prequels, christopher Lee is Christopher
Lee, very formidable and it'slike wanted more time with him
on screen Again.
Formidable villain and this isjust so well done and
(54:50):
provocative and a lot to thinkabout with this story, which is
again it's a home run they didsuch a good job with this and
subtle references to fandomthroughout it with other
characters and everything else.
(55:13):
And if the only thing that we'recomplaining about is Luthen
should have had a self-destructin his office, that's pretty
good.
He didn't have an exit plan.
Other than that, that's theonly thing that we're
complaining about.
He didn't have an exit plan.
So again, fantastic show.
So with that, everyone I wantto thank all my co-hosts that
(55:36):
have helped on this journey,some who aren't here tonight,
but they've all went on thisadventure and stay tuned for
more because we're looking atsome other shows to cover this
summer.
And until then, everyone, staysafe, stay healthy and stay
geeky, take care.
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