April 27, 2025 • 68 mins
Review of Daredevil Born Again episode 9, “Straight to Hell.”
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Episode Transcript
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Joshua Gilliland (00:05):
hello everyone .
My name is joshua gilliland,one of the co-founding attorneys
of the legal geeks.
We are here to finish offdaredevil born again, which had
nine episodes not eight, to mysurprise and we're going uh, we
had a little break because ofgoing to Star Wars Celebration
in Tokyo.
We'll have a special episode onour adventures there, but for
(00:28):
now, let's finish off Daredevil.
With me for this adventure isGabby Martin and retired judge
Matthew Sherino.
Gabby, how are you this evening?
Gabby Martin (00:39):
Doing good, doing good.
I didn't know if I was thebiggest fan of the season finale
.
I liked the overall season butI did have some gripes with how
they ended it.
But I'm curious what your guysthoughts are.
Joshua Gilliland (00:54):
I have feelings to your honor, your
thoughts.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (R (00:58):
Yeah , I was hoping for a bit of a
stronger conclusion for this theseason was good and I see it
for what it was.
Is is kind of a strongerconclusion for this the season
was good and I see it for whatit was, is kind of a setup for
the next season, which is onlygood if there is one, and so as
long as there is a next season,I will accept this one as doing
a pretty good job of setting itup and bringing it to Disney and
(01:23):
kind of setting the tone forthe show from where it left.
Netflix.
Joshua Gilliland (01:30):
I thought it was an excellent season.
I also had some issues with theending.
I don't mind cliffhangers.
I'm completely fine with acliffhanger ending, because
that's life.
Life doesn't always have a nice, fun resolution.
After an adventure, you can gowell, now we have a new fight.
That part doesn't always have anice, fun resolution.
After an adventure, you can gowell, now we have a new fight.
That part doesn't bother me.
What bothered me was thepunisher.
(01:51):
Smarter than to walk in a trap.
He would have had anti-thinkweapons.
He would have leveled thebuilding and killed all of them,
and that would have been it.
He would not walk in with an axand a handgun to fight people
with extreme prejudice.
He would have been a brutalslaughter from short of a drone
(02:14):
strike.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Ret (02:15):
So he was always a very good
planner and and, and you know,executioner of those plans and
that was very simplistic forFrank Castle.
Joshua Gilliland (02:26):
Yeah, he, I'm just going to walk in.
It's like, what are you tryingto discover, dude?
Like you know, that's those arethe bad guys.
Like what's with that?
Gabby Martin (02:38):
Yeah, and there didn't even seem to be, like I
was waiting for that kind of aswe talked about, that kind of
big almost comeuppance momentright where he kind of got to
confront these quote unquotefanboys head on Right.
And I think for me, you know,jon Bernthal is such a
(02:58):
phenomenal actor and can deliverlines really incredibly, like
the his first entrance I thinkit's episode three, right in the
season that you know he has theconfrontation with Matt and
that was really strong and I washoping for an equally strong
kind of confrontation with thesepolice officers and it just, I
(03:20):
think the intercutting withKingpin doesn't allow it, give
it its moment to shine and it'sreally kind of truncated and I
didn't really understand thereference to Captain America as
the kind of like person theyshould be idling, but it was
just odd and it didn't give itthat kind of weight that I think
(03:43):
it was setting up to have.
Joshua Gilliland (03:47):
Yeah, it's, it was a little lackluster because
he would have killed all ofthem and you have to work really
hard for me to root for thePunisher and they succeeded.
So so that was something, butit was just.
He's smarter than this.
Now.
I remember reading, you know,punish award journal when I was
(04:08):
young and where everything was acalculated attack and they just
dropped the ball on that.
So that was the part thatreally took me out of it.
Uh, because he's smarter thanthis, like matt realizing that
we're gonna have to step backand come up with a new plan.
Fine, but I have a hunch thatif New York went dark and there
(04:34):
was rioting and problems, newYork State would not ignore that
situation, nor the federalgovernment.
We have seen what happens whenNew York is under attack.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (R (04:47):
I've done two blackouts in New York,
oh wow.
So I'm well experienced withNew York in the dark.
Joshua Gilliland (04:57):
Yeah, the rest of us noticed Help was there.
The governor wouldn't be like.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (05:04):
One did not go very well and they
learned their lessons.
And then the second one washandled a lot differently, uh,
but, but there was a lot ofrioting, um, during the uh, the
late 70s, with the, the blackout, the, the year the yankees won
the uh world series, so 78, Iguess, uh, the summer of, and it
was the summer of Son of Sam.
(05:25):
It was a several-day blackoutand there was a lot of damage
done to certain parts of NewYork City.
There was a change inleadership for the second
blackout and it was handled alot more closer to martial law
(05:47):
and it was less rioting or therioting ended much sooner yeah,
uh, I'm sorry you went throughtwo of those.
Joshua Gilliland (05:56):
Uh, yeah, I I don't remember.
Remember in the 1989 earthquake, any writing that took place in
the bay area.
Now that was right at thebeginning of the 89 world series
and with the a's versus thegiants, it was our battle of the
bay.
Uh, so again, a lot of peoplewere getting ready to watch the
(06:17):
ball game.
There was chaos from, you know,bridge collapses and and other
horrible things that took place,but I don't remember any
rioting compared to say, youknow, hurricane, katrina, you
know like, again, naturaldisaster, blackout and things
(06:37):
get ugly.
But how people handle that, Imean I look at history from the
1906 earthquake and martial lawwas declared and San Francisco
in 1906 did not mess aroundAnywho.
On to the rest of the episodewith those historical real life
(06:59):
comparisons.
So we start with this one yearflashback with bullseye in
prison and vanessa visiting himand there's a reference to dare
does daredevil.
Season three with the fbi agentray nadim.
For those who don't recall,nadim was blackmailed by Wilson
(07:22):
Fisk.
Nadine had testified before agrand jury about the Kingpin
blackmailing of FBI agents intoprotecting the crime lord
because Kingpin was staying at ahotel for his incarceration.
The grand jury is alsocompromised.
(07:48):
Nadine returned home, waited tobe executed by Fisks and his
operatives and before being shotby Bullseye, nadine recorded a
confession and said it was hisdying declaration.
And I will highlight that's nothow dying declarations work.
Dying declaration is you'vebeen shot, you had a major
medical incident, you haveimpending death and you say
(08:12):
aliens are real.
I worked on ufos at area 51 andthen the person expires because
they're bleeding out.
It's that kind of thing, not.
I have my iphone and I'mrecording what could be a TikTok
video, hoping that gets intoevidence.
Sure, it might be a partyadmission at that point, because
(08:32):
it's really bad for FBI agentsto say, yes, we protected the
crime lord from furtherprosecution and turned into his
personal hit squad.
We don't like that as a society.
But again, it's not how dyingdeclarations work.
That trauma brought backmemories of season three and
it's just like that's not howthe law works.
(08:54):
But the fact that theyreferenced that as the acquittal
I found fascinating.
Your Honor, what were yourthoughts to this acquittal?
And then this document gettingsigned for Bullseye to get out
of prison to be Vanessa'shenchman caught the caption, the
(09:29):
signature.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Reti (09:29):
I mean there's really no kind of
civil conditional release thatyou know two people could sign.
That would then get someoneelse out of jail.
The only people that canrelease someone out of jail is
the government.
So I best I can guess it wassome kind of conditional release
where he was going to bereleased to some kind of work
program or program run by theKingpin so, but he wouldn't be a
(09:55):
necessary signatory to to that.
So I couldn't figure out whatin real life that that would
actually be, what in real lifethat that would actually be.
But it worked as a mechanism torelease Bullseye so that he can
continue to kind of do somework for Kingpin.
Joshua Gilliland (10:16):
Yeah, it was just weird.
I mean, Gabby, did you have anyreactions to this?
Gabby Martin (10:22):
Yeah, my biggest issue was that he's clearly, you
know, medicated and I'm prettysure you know Vanessa leans over
and kind of you know, does alittle you know helping
assistance there with thesignature.
And obviously, you know, as, asthe judge said, you know we
can't really identify what thisis and you know, obviously, the
(10:44):
government we can't reallyidentify what this is and you
know, obviously the governmenthe wouldn't really sign anything
as part of his release.
But even if this were somedocument that he's releasing,
that he's attesting to in someway, we kind of question whether
he A had the capacity to do so,because it looks like he's on
pretty strong medication.
(11:05):
You know he can't really formsentences.
He's having a kind of hard time, kind of part of it seems to be
emotional, but also part of itseems to be him being very
drugged up.
And then obviously, vanessaassisting you know we think of
terms of wills and trusts right,you can't kind of have somebody
sign, you know, assist yourvery wealthy loved one in
(11:28):
signing a will that you knowlends everything to you or
leaves everything to you.
So yeah, there's a lot of kindof also capacity issues.
If this was an actual legaldocument that he'd have to sign.
Joshua Gilliland (11:45):
It also just doesn't make sense, because it's
one thing if this is like somepower of attorney for getting
legal representation to look athis case, you know, encouraging
him, for we got this law firmthat's going to help you, but we
need you to sign so they canhelp you.
Like that I could get.
But this was just weird almostas weird as a dying declaration
(12:11):
where you're not dying, um, socall me old-fashioned, all right
.
Which then brings us to matttaking the shot aimed at kingpin
.
This turned out radicallydifferently than I expected,
because I expected kingpin tohave some very conflicted
feelings out of loyalty.
(12:32):
It's like, wow, this guy took abullet for me and instead it's
I should have him killed.
Let's finish this off once andfor all.
That.
That was not the result I wasexpecting, and I see shaking
heads Gabby, you're veryforceful here.
Gabby Martin (12:50):
Your reaction it kind of sets up the perfect
framework, right for this verypublic scene.
Um, nobody knows, uh, you know,except for the few people that
(13:10):
matt murdoch is is their devil,right?
Um, and it's not like he'spublicly revealed his identity,
like like an iron man or, youknow, spider-man or whoever, and
, um, you know.
(13:39):
So it sets up this very bigthing for him to put Fisk in.
He saved his wife, he savedFisk's life, right?
It kind of, you know, pay itback publicly because he did
this big, big right and it forme I thought they were going to
go with, as we talked about thematt as da route, right, and
have him name matt as da to kindof keep him closer, and he just
(14:01):
barrels past that and just says, nope, just just the dead
vigilante is, you know, orwhatever he says.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (14:08):
And it's just, a dead hero is
better than a live vigilante.
Joshua Gilliland (14:11):
That was a great yeah, yeah, I uh what.
What troubled me about it?
It it sends the.
Matt should not have taken thebullet, for the kingpin Society
would have been better off if hehad not been the hero, and
(14:32):
that's a really sad reactionthat their problems would.
New York would not have had abody count with police officers
just executing people in thestreet overnight if Kingpin had
been shot and Frank.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (14:47):
Castle really makes a point of that
when talking to Matt and saying,like how could you take a
bullet for this guy?
I mean, frank really kind ofjust couldn't wrap his brain
around that rightfully so, withKingpin's reaction.
Uh stories, thank you for forthat activity yeah, and that's
(15:12):
it's.
Joshua Gilliland (15:12):
It's just not a good reaction because it's
yeah, well, they would have beenbetter off if the kingpin had
died, like, literally, societywould have been better yeah, and
it really does seem to like andthis is why I had you know kind
of a challenge with it, is it?
Gabby Martin (15:28):
it almost seemed as if you know, cause obviously
there were rewrites with theshow, right.
They kind of scrapped a lot ofstuff and I always got the
impression that the firstepisode was them reusing a lot
of material that they hadalready filmed and then kind of
cutting to whatever storylinethey had they had wanted to kind
of implement.
But this seemed to almostreturn to that kind of odd
(15:50):
narrative structure that thefirst episode had and kind of
undercut all the work that wasdone over the season, you know,
with matt kind of pulling awayfrom his work as a defense
attorney, right, which wouldlead you to believe he's moving
to the prosecution side.
So, yeah, it just it was veryodd choice yeah, I mean there's.
Joshua Gilliland (16:13):
I did.
I did not read all of them, Ionly remember the articles about
them, of daredevil effectivelyrunning hill's kitchen and like
a little army of daredevilsrunning around.
Are we going that way instead?
Uh, it's just, it's just weird.
Um, it was very an unexpectedturn.
That leaves a bad taste in mymouth, because you cannot have
(16:38):
events of such magnitude andKate Bishop sit it out, miss
Marvel sit it out, spider-mansit it out.
You have all these heroes basedin New York and Clint Barton
probably suiting up and drivingdown from upstate to take action
.
So it's just a very weirdsituation because you have all
(17:03):
these vigilantes and heroes whowould not stand for this, so let
alone the rest of society.
That said, we then pivot to uh,what the okay?
So bad move if you're waking upfrom any procedure and you say
(17:27):
the old girlfriend's name to thecurrent girlfriend you already
had to say from an assassinationattempt.
Bad move.
Glad you have someone there tosay it's the drugs talking, but
still bad move.
You have someone there to sayit's the drugs talking, but
(17:51):
still bad move.
Uh, but let's get whatkingpin's up to with red hook
and the quest that our heroeseventually go on for uh figuring
out why red hook is important,so we got some notes here.
Uhby, can you talk to us aboutmoving funds through Red Hook?
Gabby Martin (18:07):
Yeah, so we finally get official
confirmation that he ismisappropriating city resources,
right, or, if he hasn't startedyet, he's certainly indicating
that that's his intention to dothat, right, because he tells
Vanessa that you know she hadmoved millions through Red Hook
(18:30):
and now he can move billions,right, so there's that financial
piece, and he also says thatthat's really why he ran for
mayor.
If that's maybe something thatchanged, maybe, but regardless
he is misappropriating cityresources, right.
So this is a violation, atminimum, of the conflict of
(18:52):
interest policy that we talkedabout in one of the earlier
episodes in New York andgenerally elsewhere, but
particularly in New York, um,under 2604B3, um cannot use
their position, uh, to obtainany financial gain, contract,
license or privilege, um, andthey can't use it for any
(19:16):
private or private financialinterests as well, um, and they
can't use confidentialinformation that they know as
elected officials or otherpublic servants to for financial
gain.
So then, at worst, right,that's at minimum violating kind
of his oath of office, right,and his kind of conflicts of
(19:38):
interest.
But you could make the argumentand I think it's pretty clear
from what he's admitting herethat there is a conspiracy to
commit fraud, right, that is, Ithink, what he is engaging,
vanessa, in that they're goingto do with Red Hook.
You know, we've seen this withother elected officials
(19:58):
defrauding under 18 US Code 371,there's a count to conspiracy
to commit offense or to defraudthe United States, which does
apply to states as well, as wesaw with Bridgegate.
And then, of course, wire fraud18 USC 1343.
(20:21):
So there is a scheme to defraud, right, they're using this for
financial gain, they have intentand obviously they didn't have
wire fraud there, right, becausethey're sitting in a room
together, but the minute theycall or text, as these
individuals often do, say Buckor anybody else, bang, you got
(20:44):
the communicating via wirecommunications.
So I do think they are on thehook for a bunch of other things
, but certainly committing fraudusing these city resources.
Joshua Gilliland (21:02):
Which brings us to the blackout.
But there are a a couple.
The blackout is a means, to theend, to push the city over the
edge, uh, to build upon a crisis.
That was just an assassinationattempt.
To how do we exploit theassassination attempt?
Uh, think well again.
(21:23):
They're not good comparisons,but but think how LBJ was
walking around with a copy ofthe Tonkin Gulf Resolution
before the Tonkin Gulf incidenthappened, like ready for that
authorization to use force inVietnam, just waiting for the
moment when that would give themreason to get that passed.
And Fisk wants to put a squeezeon the city council for an
(21:47):
ordinance to go into effect andis wanting to send people home
who aren't on board.
And we have this issue of thisblackout about to create chaos.
So, your honor, are you thevoice in the dark to explain the
blackout scenario?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (R (22:10):
Yeah , the mayor gives various orders
, he's in the city hall and hetells the task force you know
you're going to be going afterall the vigilantes.
We don't care about due process, we don't care about warrants
Clearly in violation of theFourth Amendment, which is the
(22:30):
right of people to be secure intheir persons, houses, papers
and effects against unreasonablesearches and seizures, shall
not be violated and no warrantsshall issue but upon probable
cause supported by oath oraffirmation.
Shall issue but upon probablecause supported by oath or
affirmation.
And clearly, you know I'vesigned countless warrants over
(22:50):
the years.
But there has to be a showingto you before you sign a warrant
, that there is good cause tosign this warrant.
And he was telling this taskforce of his that it didn't
matter that we are going to,without warrants, do what we
need to do to go against thevigilantes.
This would also be in violationof the Sixth Amendment, which
(23:14):
does give in all criminalproceedings, the accused shall
enjoy the right to a speedy andpublic trial.
This is basically whatguarantees you due process in a
criminal case and he doesn'tcare about that.
He's having them thrown intojail without any due process,
clearly something that can neverhappen in real life excessive.
(23:40):
Here people were being lockedin little cages and there was no
bail being set.
He then gives his marchingorders to Buck that Buck is to
go to the hospital and take careof Matt.
So much for him being graciousfor Matt saving his life.
He then goes to his chief ofstaff, sheila, who says I need
(24:03):
to know who is out to get me andwho is loyal on the staff.
And then he has a scene withthe Con Ed worker and we really
don't know at that moment why heis talking to a Con Ed worker
about.
And we soon learned that whatit is is to basically either
shut off or short circuit thecity's power so that there would
(24:28):
be a blackout which would thengive him the opportunity to
declare martial law, which washis plan to create chaos and in
that chaos basically become adictator of New York City.
Joshua Gilliland (24:50):
All not good, all not good.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (24:55):
And while he's doing all this, he
has to take care of the one goodgovernment official that seems
to be left, which is the policecommissioner conversation, that
the police commissioner is goingto be going to Albany and to
(25:16):
the governor and basically tellwhat is going on in the city of
New York.
Sheila clearly plays thisrecording for the kingpin.
Who, then, is going to takecare of Police Commissioner
Gallo?
Joshua Gilliland (25:32):
I'm all for separation of powers and a
federalist state of federalgovernment, state, local
government, but the state of newyork is not going to sit this
one out like they.
They, the governor, should beon the phone going like what?
What is going on?
Because there are state officesin new york city, I presume,
(25:53):
just as there are state officesin New York City, I presume,
just as there are state officesin, you know, some of the
capital cities here inCalifornia, whether it's Oakland
, san Francisco, san Jose, youknow there are state offices.
They have to take notice.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (26:10):
And the state of New York has a lot
of power with dealing with thecity and overruling things that
the city does in fact do.
I mean, even you know Kingpindeclares martial law.
That's not something, governor,who can declare martial law?
And I was part of the statelegal militia for a number of
(26:39):
years and you know we drilled onmartial law and in some
municipalities where there was adeclaration of emergency by the
local declarer, by the locality, because a locality can declare
an emergency but it's only thestate that can declare martial
law.
Once there's an emergency, thestate might send troops to bring
(27:01):
the peace, to help out torescues, and I did many missions
in the state with hurricanesand with ice and with other
things when the governoractivated us after the
municipality called thoseemergencies.
Joshua Gilliland (27:16):
Yeah, what you can't it's the.
I am fine with the visuallyimpaired lawyer that has a radar
sense, I'm all on board withthat.
I'm not on board with thegovernor of New York sleeping
through a blackout and taking noaction and that there's only
one elected official in new yorkcity.
(27:37):
You know that that was willingto go to the governor and say
something.
You know a foul was happeninghere.
That just it's too big of acity for them to ignore.
And maybe one thing if it wassome small town and where people
don't recognize what'shappening that quickly, that
(28:00):
that's more plausible for it togo.
It's going to take a couplehours to figure out what
happened here, opposed to it'sNew York City.
So the feds would be involved.
There's a huge federalfootprint in New York City,
Putting a very big FBIheadquarters in New York City.
Yeah, yeah, they're not going togo like golly gee, we're going
(28:22):
to let the mayor handle this.
Just no, just no.
Which?
Then let's talk about the SaferStreet Initiative.
Let's talk about the saferstreet initiative.
We have the deputy mayor ofcommunications doing the
shakedown like a mob boss on thecity council, or at least
members of the city council toagain it's.
(28:44):
It looks a lot like organizedcrime of.
This is an awfully nice car youhave here type situation.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Ret (28:56):
We clearly learned that Deputy
Mayor Daniel is Deputy Mayor ofShakedown.
Joshua Gilliland (29:02):
Yeah, yeah, communications is just an
honorarium because he'scommunicating threats.
Not good, not good.
We also have someone get shotby a police officer that was
looting Looting bad Individualshould not have been doing.
(29:24):
That Individual should havebeen stopped and prosecuted.
All for that.
Individual should not have hada summary execution and then a
mask put over his face andsaying it was just a vigilante.
Because now we've entered toplanting evidence to cover up
summary executions and justthat's the abandonment of law,
(29:47):
that's the abandonment of therule of law and it's turned into
rule of the gun and they'reliving in a fascist state at
this point and it's just.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (R (29:56):
It's just messed up and it was very
clear that the looter, whencaught by the police stopped.
You know he didn't take anyovert action against the police,
you know so they were.
They were very clear in kind ofshowing that the police had
absolutely no justification tokill this looter.
Joshua Gilliland (30:19):
Yeah, it's just evil Gabby.
Gabby Martin (30:23):
Yeah, no, and it's really, you know, we, you know
again excessive force and all ofthat out of it.
Because obviously, as the judgesaid, that's very clear, right,
um.
But the other thing, um, hereis that they are guilty of
tampering with evidence, right,they fabricate evidence by
(30:46):
pulling um the the hoodie or thebeanie over his head to make
him look like he has a mask onright.
And so in, under New York lawit's a class E felony to tamper
with physical evidence,including knowingly making,
(31:08):
devising or preparing falsephysical evidence.
So these cops would be guiltyof not only excessive force and
murder and all of that sort ofthing, but, you know, tampering
with physical evidence as well.
And I think, just to circle backon the you know Deputy Mayor
Daniel, he talks about askinggently in quotes, asking them to
(31:30):
leave.
The mayor has really no, theseare elect, it's.
You know, making thedistinction between the
employees.
They're kind of asking to leaveor stay home or whatever.
These are elected officials.
All the members of the New YorkCity Council are duly elected
officials.
So there probably is some, youknow, leeway they have there
(31:53):
right in extreme circumstances.
But just saying oh, you'redismissed is not necessarily.
They are elected and notappointed positions.
So we'll talk about some otherappointed positions in a bit,
but these are elected officials.
Joshua Gilliland (32:09):
Yeah, you don't get to do a shakedown on
the opposition party.
They too are elected, whichpivots us to Karen.
And well, matt Murdock goeshome escaping an assassination
attempt and the Punisher thereis waiting for him in this
(32:30):
blackout, and they have a homeinvasion of police officers that
are now a kill squad to go outand kill Matt Murdock and they
enter Murdock's home.
So we're talking literal castledoctrine at this point in time
(32:50):
of corrupt law enforcement.
So one could argue that theyare not acting in accordance
with the law, even thoughthey're wearing uniforms and
murdoch and castle defendingthemselves from being murdered.
This is problematic in allkinds of levels because
(33:11):
technically, you're not supposedto resist law enforcement, but
uh, when it's a hit squad andlooking like something out of a
dictatorship, it's in a newcategory that doesn't exist.
Now.
There were comments about theAmerican Civil War should have
been settled in the courts, towhich Lincoln made the comment
(33:32):
that there's no court, that, uh,you know this exceeds any
jurisdiction of a court, andthey're kind of in that
situation right now.
There's no motion to file.
Uh, when people are coming intoyour home with rocket launchers
and grenades, um, it's a, it'sa new level and uh it.
It flies in the face of what weexpect in civil society,
(33:56):
because none of that should behappening.
You should not have kill squadssent by the mayor to eliminate
you.
So is self-defense justified?
Yeah, because that's stoppinglaw enforcement and transcended
into a criminal enterprise.
Would either of you like toshare any other comments on that
(34:17):
?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Reti (34:18):
I like their Punisher shirts, you
know, so that again kind ofshowed the Punisher connection
from this kill squad.
And I was also very glad to seeKaren return to the show,
because I like her character alot and I'm hopeful that she'll
be around for the next season alot more than she was this
(34:39):
season you know the actress isalso fun on social media like
loves the fans and yeah, she's ashe's a true fellow geek, which
is nice to see yeah, it's justlike she's, she's got cred from
true blood and everything elsethat she's been in and it's, you
know, does signings for charityand it's like, okay, cool, like
(35:01):
you're, you're in this, uh,gabby, any other comments?
Gabby Martin (35:06):
no, this was the um highlight.
The scene was the highlight ofthe episode for me, although I
think and this goes back to whatI commented before of you know,
everybody in this episode is,or you know, shows, very durable
.
Um, because we tend to forgetthat matt escapes the hospital
to obviously flee uh buck,killing him within hours of
(35:30):
being shot through the the upperchest, which, granted, I
imagine it didn't hit anycritical arteries.
That's why he like or organs,which is why he woke up so
quickly.
Um, but he's still.
He has a gaping, bleeding woundand he takes a lot of hits and
keeps moving.
(35:50):
Um, so so I guess the laws ofwound care and general, the
things that would affect you orI in our reality here do not
affect those in this show and inthe whatever reality universe
(36:11):
the Daredevil show takes placein.
Joshua Gilliland (36:13):
Having been under general anesthesia for
surgery and then been on theresulting pain meds, I would not
be in fighting condition atthat point in time.
And I appreciate okay, theydidn't hit the lung or heart
Cool, that's fantastic.
But I'm like he's's gonna bestapled shut like there's that's
(36:40):
.
Gabby Martin (36:40):
That's a lot of flexing with and he walks, he
walks from the hospital to hisapartment and then he does some
more fight.
I don't know, I don't.
I don't think the laws ofphysics apply.
Joshua Gilliland (37:11):
Taking out the IV would be hard.
To do that without bleeding isa challenge.
So, yeah, there's.
Yeah, he takes a beating andkeeps on ticking, just as Frank
does as well.
But that then pivots to.
Let's go look at records andstorage, which highlights the
importance of records management.
You do have to save records fora statutory amount of time and
you know the great BrowningMorian, who was a new discovery
luminary, who wrote a book onrecords management.
He tragically passed away andhe was.
(37:33):
He was a good friend, but whenbrowning wrote his book there's
like 14 000 records retentionlaws in the united states.
A decade ago I don't think thatnumber went down.
So let's just say that minimumseven years that they have to
hold on to records so everythingfrom that law firm with Murdoch
(37:54):
or Nelson and Page is instorage for a specific amount of
time and luckily it's not IronMountain so it's easier to gain
access to, because normally thatstuff is intentionally hard to
get to because it's confidentialin nature, with attorney,
client work, product andcommunications.
(38:16):
So, like you have to protect it, they're able to get in, they,
they do their thing and theyfind this information about red
hook gabby.
This looks like your notesabout what's a freeport and her
notes on freeport.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (38:31):
But give me two seconds before we
get to this.
Yes, go for it, the Freeport.
They find a motion, that wasthat they cite the Red Hook
Charter of 1855, which, at leastas far as my research that does
not exist.
Maybe I'm wrong, but what mademe think of which?
(38:52):
does exist is, during the OccupyWall Street cases in New York
which I presided over some 2,500of them one of defense lawyers
did find various treatiesdealing with the King of England
(39:20):
turning over the property toTrinity Church and in an effort
to show that Trinity Churchwasn't technically the legal
owner of many of the propertiesin New York.
If I were to accept thisparticular defense that was
raised and when I heard this RedHook Charter 1855, that's the
(39:41):
first thing I thought of was allof the various things dealing
with Trinity Church and them notbeing the rightful landlord
because of these various oldhistorical treaties, and I
initially was going to write onall of this into some omnis
decision.
And then I kind of was a littlebit fearful as to where that
(40:02):
might lead me as to ownership inNew York City and I decided
just to roll from the bench andlet the appellate courts deal
with it if they needed to dealwith it, and it never became an
issue.
But that's what this Red HookCharter of 1855 reminded me of
and on that note I'll turn it toGabby to discuss Freeport.
Gabby Martin (40:20):
Yeah, no, and it's really interesting because,
like you said, you know, when wethink of and we mentioned this
before like New England, newYork, the original 13 colonies,
they did exist before you knowkind of, we had the you know
Declaration of Independence, theBill of Rights, all of these
(40:41):
things that we, you know, thinkof as governing law here, there
were much older documents, right, that governed society before
the kind of modern laws we havetoday.
But the way they describe thisfree port of Red Hook, where it
(41:01):
would make all crimes legal andbecome its own city state, I
don't know if that's necessarilythe case because, similar to
the judge, all I could find inmy research is the concept of a
free port has more to do withtaxes than it does with, you
know, say, any sort of laws,quote, unquote, right or
(41:22):
criminal laws.
So it's really, it's a placedesignated.
We see this in the UK, Ibelieve there's some in Ireland
as well, and various placesthroughout the world and these,
and none in the US currentlythat we know of, are designated
by the government as areas withlittle to no tax in order to
(41:44):
encourage economic activity.
They're located geographicallywithin a country, but they
essentially exist outside of itsborders for tax purposes.
I think that's the part that'sleft off in the daredevil kind
of concept of a free port.
So, in essence, companies thatare operating within these free
ports can benefit from deferringthe payment of taxes until
(42:08):
their products are movedelsewhere, right?
So the idea of a free port isthat it's somewhere where goods
are held temporarily, right,they're not there permanently,
so they're not taxed there,they're taxed somewhere else.
So companies can either paytaxes when the goods are moved
somewhere else For example, ifthese are raw goods, right, they
(42:29):
don't pay taxes untilnecessarily something is built,
or they don't pay taxes untilnecessarily something is built
or, you know, finished a productis finished or they could avoid
them altogether if they bringin goods to store or manufacture
on site for exporting.
Again, that kind of rawmaterials argument.
In the UK there's several ofthem and other places throughout
(42:54):
the world, but this is verymuch a tax thing, not
necessarily applying to laws orstuff like that.
Joshua Gilliland (43:05):
Yeah, and 1855 is after the founding of the
United States, so that, like allthis would require the United
States carving out.
I misheard it and that it was1755 or something along those
lines.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (43:34):
And so I went back, and you know,
and no, they did say 1855.
Joshua Gilliland (43:40):
Yeah, so timing doesn't work either.
No, because it would havealways been part of the United
States.
You would need an affirmativeact to carve it out of the
United States.
I'm not aware of us doing thatas a country, saying that this
port is now no longer part ofthe United States for tax
purposes.
(44:00):
That seems very alien andagainst our nature as a country.
Gabby Martin (44:08):
Yeah, and it's interesting.
It's, you know, kind of wetalked about some of the gaps in
structure of this episode andit just seems like, again, it's
a simple thing, to just call it1755 or even you know, 1655
would have probably been better,because that would have put you
square in, kind of when thecolonies were kind of you know,
(44:29):
setting up shop and all thatkind of stuff, and put you well
away from, uh, you know, anykind of is there law, is there
not law?
Type of thing.
Um, but it's just odd that theychose 1855.
It almost reads like a typo ina script, um, that people went
with.
And then the production, youknow company, was like, oh, now
(44:51):
we have to make this documentthat says 1855, right, so it
seems like a typo.
That just kind of grew legs,right, and somebody I'm sure is
maybe some person that wasworking on the script and was
like, oh, shoot, that wassupposed to say 1655, my bad, uh
(45:12):
.
Joshua Gilliland (45:12):
So if that person ends up listening to this
podcast, I'm sorry that we'recalling out your typo yeah, was
this some writers gettingtogether like wouldn't it be
cool if the the united stateshad a part that wasn't the
united states where murder couldbe legal and there's no taxes?
It's like what libertarianfever dream are you living in of
(45:36):
?
Just no.
Like, no, we don't do that.
Like you're not going to have aport in the united states
that's going to be controlled bythe United States Coast Guard,
because if this is like freereign, free enterprise, we do
whatever we want.
Now it's a soft target forterrorists and nuclear weapons
(45:58):
and other things that can doharm to the country.
That makes no senseanalytically.
That's just not something thatwe would tolerate.
I'm pretty sure if it didhappen, we would fix that very
quickly with an act of Congressto go yeah, we've just annexed
this and here's your justcompensation.
Bye, bye.
Gabby Martin (46:20):
Yeah, it's a fascinating concept, though,
like it's a fascinatingnarratively, the idea that this
place exists where kingpin cankind of operate without rules,
but it's within the geographicalbounds of new york city.
Um, you know, and again, ifthey had specifically kept it to
(46:40):
tax purposes, which seems to bekind of you know, there could
be a nefarious element there.
Right, you know we talk abouttax evasion and all these sorts
of things, right, um, you knowthe idea that they, that art
dealers like vanessa and others,would use these things to their
advantage to park, uh, artthere, which essentially seemed
(47:01):
to be what she was doing parkingart there and then moving it
and not having to pay taxes.
That does get her a windfall,but it keeps it more within the
bounds of something thatactually kind of legally exists.
Joshua Gilliland (47:15):
It's like Martha's Vineyard declaring
independence, like it's just itdoesn't make sense of.
You know what we?
We're now in charge ofourselves.
Just it doesn't make sense.
Gabby Martin (47:27):
I mean I will say Key West has tried to declare
independence before they havetried to annex themselves.
So islands of the United Statesor coastal areas declaring
annexation is not completelywithout history.
Joshua Gilliland (47:49):
But at least that would be more plausible, as
opposed to a chunk of New YorkCity being a city-state where
commerce can just flow in andout without regulation.
So no, because the propertydeal to buy things is still
(48:09):
controlled by the state.
So nobody owns this.
None of the land deals matternow, because they're not subject
to the laws of the UnitedStates.
Okay, again, it's legallynonsensical.
They, they needed a way to havea place where red hook or
(48:31):
whatever could be for kingpin tooperate with impunity, and this
is what they came up with.
And it's just legally weird,like it doesn't make sense.
But there are things that, uh,continue to not make sense Again
(48:55):
.
We've talked aboutPunisherverse, all of the
corrupt task force.
We've talked about Sheilaratting out the commissioner.
I don't think we need to straytoo far to say what happens to
the police, commissioner, ismurder.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (49:07):
But it did bring back Kingpin's
favorite mechanism of murder inthe comic book, so that really
hadn't been seen in this TV show.
Joshua Gilliland (49:16):
Crushing the skull.
Judge Matthew Sciarrin (49:17):
Crushing the skull with his bare hands.
So you know the Kingpin methodwas quite sick.
Joshua Gilliland (49:28):
To say the least.
And and you know what wouldannoy me uh, trying to play this
every man card in order to turnthe police officers against
their commissioner.
You know the, the person thatthey've known probably their
entire career, or known of theirentire career, is someone.
He's not for you, but I was inprison for murdering lots of
(49:50):
people and I'm on your side.
I don't think law enforcementwould bend to the kingpin's will
like that, I think that and yousaw their faces when he crushed
his skull.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Reti (50:01):
I mean, it was not like a.
Those were not happy.
Looks from the officers.
They were scared.
Looks from the officers.
Yeah were scared.
Looks from the officers.
Joshua Gilliland (50:10):
Yeah, it sends a message of I'm on the wrong
team, I'm leaving now Bye-bye.
A few people highlight that ofyay, let's do more of this.
So we have the next morningkingpin does a news conference.
(50:34):
He appoints heather to be thecommissioner of mental health.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Ret (50:39):
uh , she agrees again another
showing of why you don't mentionthe girlfriend's name at the
hospital when your othergirlfriend's there yeah, just
just.
Joshua Gilliland (50:52):
I mean, I understand he was medicated, but
you gotta just just no, uh,just no, no, no, uh, yeah, uh,
we have the safer streetsinitiative which looks like was
enacted overnight.
So again, it's that Tonkin Gulf.
You know, 99 to one or 99 totwo type passage of.
(51:14):
Did anyone read this?
You know, it's just.
It's like the declaration ofwar against Japan on December
8th was 99 to one.
You know, like Jeanette Rankin,excuse me, yeah, we weren't at
100 yet, we didn't have 50states, but it was everybody but
Jeanette Rankin voted for thedeclaration of war because she
(51:38):
was an avowed pacifist andpromptly thrown out of office at
the next election.
Because that doesn't, therewasn't a good option.
Because that doesn't therewasn't a good option.
Those who were not on board withthe Tonkin Gulf Resolution are
remembered with more favor thosewho were voices against the
(51:59):
Patriot Act or, you know, theauthorization to use force after
9-11, there's kinder historicalviews of them now for a variety
of reasons.
But this is passed in themiddle of the night because of a
(52:23):
blackout, so it's a fraudulentreason.
There's duress involved in whythey get voted on.
So all bad, but it says anyvigilante, illegal activity is
illegal.
Illegal, which is kind of thepoint of vigilantism.
It's already illegal, it's nowmore illegal.
It's like speeding through a.
You're not supposed to speedthrough a neighborhood, but it's
more illegal if you speed by aschool.
It's that kind of logic.
(52:44):
Um, it's now more illegal andapparently there are shoot to
kill orders.
We have a reference here tomilitary law, with the governor
to declare martial law.
Your Honor, was that anythingto add upon that?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Ret (53:00):
No , it's just that it's a power of
the governor and not of themayor.
The mayor can declare a stateof emergency for the city, but
the only one who can declaremartial law for the geographical
, for New York State, or anypart thereof, is the governor of
New York.
Joshua Gilliland (53:17):
Gabby, you have some notes about under
Executive Law 24.
Would you like to add anythingto that?
Gabby Martin (53:22):
Yeah, so, going off of that, the mayor does have
, as we mentioned before, thepower to declare an emergency,
and part of that is that youknow, kind of teasing out what
Fisk does, what is legal, whatis not Part of what is.
He can't obviously declaremartial law, as we've talked
about, but he can set arestrictions in place if he
(53:47):
declares a state of emergency,you know, to kind of all within
public safety, right, there arecertain restrictions on this,
including the duration of time.
This does not exist kind of inperpetuity, these powers.
But you know he can, you know,establish a curfew, prohibit
people from moving around atcertain times, right, curfew,
(54:10):
prohibit people from movingaround at certain times, right.
Designation of specific zones,you know, within which the
occupancy and use of thebuilding may be prohibited and
regulated regulated of closingof places of amusement and
assembly, suspension andlimitation of sale of alcoholic
beverages, explosive firearms,flammable materials and liquids,
prohibition and control thepresence of persons on public
(54:34):
streets and places.
Designation of emergency shelterwhich is what we usually see
when a official declares anemergency but I don't think Fisk
is opening any emergencyshelters for anybody and the
suspension of particular laws,which I guess you could maybe
(54:59):
argue.
That's what he's trying to dohere with martial law, you know,
is really leaning into thatsuspension of laws.
But you just you can't do that.
And, Josh, as you said, peoplewould notice if he tried to do
this.
He and he had a pressconference about it too.
Joshua Gilliland (55:14):
So, uh, people would notice yeah, like the
governor, the senate, ussenators, the state legislature,
they would go.
What?
No, like you don't get to dothis.
Uh, uh, new, uh, which then uh,pivots back to the hero, with
(55:38):
them realizing that they'regoing to go raise an army and
naturally following, you know,the like tradition of the green
dragon.
You know our heroes gather in abar and that's where you know
we have some law enforcement andothers deciding to uh plan
their next step against, uh, themayor, uh, who is no longer
(56:00):
acting as a public servant.
Uh, we do find out that in redhook we have people in little
cages, which includes Jack who,after our last episode and
wondering about the swordsman,thinking that that was
originally like Hawkeye'sidentity way back to Avengers.
That was either 16 or 19.
(56:21):
I remember reading it as a kid.
Jack is the swordsman who'salways been a foil to hawkeye
and clint barton.
So the fact that the hawkeye tvseries had jack as kate
bishop's mother's love interestwas a nice deep cut twist that I
(56:45):
didn't pick up on until doing alittle research, because kudos
to them for making that kind ofa deep cut comic connection.
That was very subtle, very welldone, and you know back to you
know just the early doubledigits of the Avengers comics.
So that was very cool, but itshould go without saying saying
(57:10):
you can't just put people incages and throw away the key.
Um, especially, it looks likedog cages, like we're talking
golden retriever.
You know it's like people can't.
You're not supposed to do that.
Just no, um, just no.
And we then pivot to season twoafter a mid-credits scene that
(57:34):
makes more sense for FrankCastle breaking the arm off a
dude in order to presumablyescape.
I would hope Frank takes peoplewith him, because you have all
these people with checkbooks whoare now going to be very
motivated.
Not that I'm encouraging thatbehavior I am not but from a
(57:57):
comic book perspective thatmakes sense.
You don't leave people behind,all right.
Either of you have any othercomments or thoughts on this?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (58:10):
you have any other comments or
thoughts on this?
The slogan of the new rebelgroup to resist, rebel and
rebuild.
We are a city without fear.
We'll make a nice t-shirt, I'msure, and soon to be for sale by
Disney.
But yeah, you know, like wesaid it's, you know it's clearly
a setup for the next season.
So while, like you, I don'tcare about a cliffhanger, there
(58:33):
was just several missteps inthis episode that unfortunately
after a really good season.
I wish they had hit a home runas opposed to a double.
Joshua Gilliland (58:47):
Yeah, and I still think it's stronger than
the first season on netflix,because the first season had a
bunch of filler episodes.
Yes, this had no fillerepisodes, it was just the finale
that leads to season two.
Had some say what moments to it?
Gabby Martin (59:05):
uh, that, again, that was a writer's room that
needed a little more work, butoverall, I think this was
stronger than season one and, uh, I will defend that if I need
to so and gabby your thoughtsyeah, I mean, for me again, it
kind of it started strong, um,you know, like I said, I loved
(59:27):
the fight with Frank and Matt inthe apartment, but where it
gets to at the end, again I'mlike you guys open to a
cliffhanger.
But I think there just wouldhave been a stronger finish had
it been, you know not this likeall out war zone that it seems
(59:49):
to be.
You know, I think what I reallyliked was leaning into the kind
of political machinations of itall right, and you know, I
think it would have been a muchstronger arc had you maybe not
done, you know you could haveyou still had him turn into like
Mayor Kingpin, right, um, but Ithink, having that, you know
you could have you still had himturn into like Mayor Kingpin,
(01:00:09):
right, but I think, having that,you know, having him still
navigate the political landscape, having Matt as DA right,
having this more nuanced, right,because I think for me, where
it ended up, whereas it's thislike fighting, you know, fist
and fist, you know like withkind of more violence than kind
(01:00:33):
of intellect and politicalstrategy and all that which I
think was the strong point ofthe season, um, and so I'm
interested to see how they kindof you know, set it up because,
again, like, there's a lot ofpeople in New York that are
affected by this and it's notjust going to be like you know,
(01:00:56):
like, where do you take thisarmy right?
Do you immediately depose Fisk,do you?
You know, like, why are peoplenot coming to New York City like
to deal with this?
You know?
So, for me that was the kind ofletdown.
I think there was probablydeeper, more richer storytelling
they could have done and thisjust seems to be like you know,
(01:01:19):
oh, let's have them just be.
You know enemies and you knowfight against each other type of
thing.
Joshua Gilliland (01:01:25):
Yeah, because it could have been more
interesting with a giant plottwist of he saved me.
Now what?
And fisk actually growing intothe role of mayor and trying to
be the mayor, like that'sthere's, there's nuance to that,
there's character growth tothat, as opposed to now being
(01:01:48):
john the bastard of I'm avillain for being of the
villain's sake, and everythingwith the kingpin is aggressive
urban renewal so he can makemoney, so it's a nice place for
him to live.
I just I've missed opportunityto do more after having so many
excellent, thoughtful pointsfrom a guy who steals fiddle,
(01:02:13):
faddle, getting the book thrownat him to those who are doing
truly ugly crimes getting out sothey can commit more ugly
crimes.
So there's uh, yeah, I don'tknow if they just boxed
themselves in and they didn'tknow how to get to season two or
what the you know, did they getnotes?
I mean, there are all theseweird questions.
(01:02:34):
I'll be here for it.
I'll absolutely be here for it,but they wrote a bigger story
that should involve othercharacters.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (01:02:46):
And that bigger story is in the
comic book arc.
That kind of is this story.
I mean it's so.
You know you don't necessarilywant to go word for word for the
comic book art because you dowant to create some surprise.
Granted, the the market forthose that are reading the comic
books as opposed to watchingthe tv are drastically, uh,
different and most peoplewouldn't know that this was
(01:03:08):
taken from from that comic bookstory.
But that series, the arc wherehe remains the mayor, his wife
kind of runs the criminalenterprise and Matt becomes the
DA, and this could still be theway it goes.
But it was a very, very good,good, thoughtful arc as opposed
(01:03:29):
to let's just have a good guysagainst bad guys war yeah, it's
again.
Joshua Gilliland (01:03:35):
There are other ways forward.
That would have been um,because it was on this really
neat setup.
Gabby Martin (01:03:41):
And then episode nine does a left turn that it's
like, okay, that's so, there'sno character growth, got it yeah
, and I think for me too, eventhe the one, uh, main cop of the
of the task force, right, um, Ikept seeing that he was going
(01:04:01):
to potentially turn on thisoperation, right um, you know,
because they do paint himinitially as this bad guy right,
that's roughing up guys, um.
But then he does say that, youknow, his brother wears this
badge, his dad wears this badgeand there's a dedication to what
the badge stands for, you know.
And even when he's holding upthe mask of a muse, it seems
(01:04:24):
like he's not fully into thislie that's being sold.
But then he's like, no, I'mjust gonna like, stand here for
all of this kind of um, you know, silliness, so you know, and
this violence and and all ofthis kind of thing.
So again, yeah, it's, it's amissed opportunity for, for
deeper character development, Ithink, all the way around and
(01:04:47):
make people think because it's.
Joshua Gilliland (01:04:51):
It's a sad fact that a lot of the stories
that we get in pop culture arejust fast cars, bright lights,
explosions and you know, youknow, punch the bad guy, as
opposed to something with nuancethat gets people to think of oh
, wait a minute, like what is?
Oh yeah, how is there no growth?
How is there no thought?
(01:05:12):
Like you know, people realizeis this a good idea?
Do I want to be on this path?
So, um, or some.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (R (01:05:21):
Some missed opportunities is what it
comes down to yeah, missedopportunity.
Joshua Gilliland (01:05:25):
Overall, I give it a minus.
You know this season, so againI thought it was.
I looked forward to it eachweek.
Um, enjoyed getting to talkabout it each week, grateful to
have it.
So it's not like you'rewatching, it's like we're dumber
for this, like that hashappened of this has hurt all of
(01:05:45):
us and there will beramifications.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (01:05:48):
And they had some great legal
issues, some great courtroomscenes, some great real legal
evidentiary issues.
So clearly, as lawyers, this isa real fun show to watch and I
understand that not everyonewatching the show is a lawyer,
(01:06:09):
so we have to not necessarilyjust deal only with legal issues
.
But there were a lot of missedopportunities to develop the
characters a little bit morefully and to discuss ideas that
matter today, which is reallywhat sci-fi and is about.
It's about you, you know, andmarvel has always been this.
(01:06:30):
If you look from their theirearly 60s comic books, it's
always been a social commentaryon what's going on now, and
there were some missedopportunities to just turn it
into a us versus them, vigilanteversus non-vigilante, dirty
cops against the.
You know, just some missedopportunities.
Joshua Gilliland (01:06:49):
Yeah, it's grateful to have it, you know,
and thankful for the cast andcrew who, like the, the behind
the scenes photos of, like the,the black tie party looks like
they had a rocking good timewith sitting and it was like you
want to hang out with thoseguys Cause they it looks like
they had so much fun with uh,like vincent with the band.
(01:07:12):
It's like dude cool.
Like more of that.
And uh, or is there video?
Because people would probablyenjoy him singing and uh, so
more of that please yeah, andexcellent acting.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (01:07:27):
You know there was.
We're not making any badcommentary as to the parts.
This is D'Onofrio played anamazing role.
You know.
Everyone really played theircharacter well.
The characters could have beendeveloped a little bit more
nuanced in that last episode.
Joshua Gilliland (01:07:47):
Yeah, yeah.
And the fact that it's just atthe end we're like this could
use just a hint more cooking umsays a lot about the quality of
the show.
So with that, everyone, thanksfor tuning in.
We're going to have a recap ofstar war celebration, we're
going to start talking aboutandor season two very shortly
and we're going to have a busysummer.
(01:08:09):
There are lots of cool thingscoming up and stay tuned for
more.
So everyone, wherever you are,stay safe, stay healthy and stay
geeky, take care.
hello everyone .
My name is joshua gilliland,one of the co-founding attorneys
of the legal geeks.
We are here to finish offdaredevil born again, which had
nine episodes not eight, to mysurprise and we're going uh, we
had a little break because ofgoing to Star Wars Celebration
in Tokyo.
We'll have a special episode onour adventures there, but for
(00:28):
now, let's finish off Daredevil.
With me for this adventure isGabby Martin and retired judge
Matthew Sherino.
Gabby, how are you this evening?
Gabby Martin (00:39):
Doing good, doing good.
I didn't know if I was thebiggest fan of the season finale
.
I liked the overall season butI did have some gripes with how
they ended it.
But I'm curious what your guysthoughts are.
Joshua Gilliland (00:54):
I have feelings to your honor, your
thoughts.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (R (00:58):
Yeah , I was hoping for a bit of a
stronger conclusion for this theseason was good and I see it
for what it was.
Is is kind of a strongerconclusion for this the season
was good and I see it for whatit was, is kind of a setup for
the next season, which is onlygood if there is one, and so as
long as there is a next season,I will accept this one as doing
a pretty good job of setting itup and bringing it to Disney and
(01:23):
kind of setting the tone forthe show from where it left.
Netflix.
Joshua Gilliland (01:30):
I thought it was an excellent season.
I also had some issues with theending.
I don't mind cliffhangers.
I'm completely fine with acliffhanger ending, because
that's life.
Life doesn't always have a nice, fun resolution.
After an adventure, you can gowell, now we have a new fight.
That part doesn't always have anice, fun resolution.
After an adventure, you can gowell, now we have a new fight.
That part doesn't bother me.
What bothered me was thepunisher.
(01:51):
Smarter than to walk in a trap.
He would have had anti-thinkweapons.
He would have leveled thebuilding and killed all of them,
and that would have been it.
He would not walk in with an axand a handgun to fight people
with extreme prejudice.
He would have been a brutalslaughter from short of a drone
(02:14):
strike.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Ret (02:15):
So he was always a very good
planner and and, and you know,executioner of those plans and
that was very simplistic forFrank Castle.
Joshua Gilliland (02:26):
Yeah, he, I'm just going to walk in.
It's like, what are you tryingto discover, dude?
Like you know, that's those arethe bad guys.
Like what's with that?
Gabby Martin (02:38):
Yeah, and there didn't even seem to be, like I
was waiting for that kind of aswe talked about, that kind of
big almost comeuppance momentright where he kind of got to
confront these quote unquotefanboys head on Right.
And I think for me, you know,jon Bernthal is such a
(02:58):
phenomenal actor and can deliverlines really incredibly, like
the his first entrance I thinkit's episode three, right in the
season that you know he has theconfrontation with Matt and
that was really strong and I washoping for an equally strong
kind of confrontation with thesepolice officers and it just, I
(03:20):
think the intercutting withKingpin doesn't allow it, give
it its moment to shine and it'sreally kind of truncated and I
didn't really understand thereference to Captain America as
the kind of like person theyshould be idling, but it was
just odd and it didn't give itthat kind of weight that I think
(03:43):
it was setting up to have.
Joshua Gilliland (03:47):
Yeah, it's, it was a little lackluster because
he would have killed all ofthem and you have to work really
hard for me to root for thePunisher and they succeeded.
So so that was something, butit was just.
He's smarter than this.
Now.
I remember reading, you know,punish award journal when I was
(04:08):
young and where everything was acalculated attack and they just
dropped the ball on that.
So that was the part thatreally took me out of it.
Uh, because he's smarter thanthis, like matt realizing that
we're gonna have to step backand come up with a new plan.
Fine, but I have a hunch thatif New York went dark and there
(04:34):
was rioting and problems, newYork State would not ignore that
situation, nor the federalgovernment.
We have seen what happens whenNew York is under attack.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (R (04:47):
I've done two blackouts in New York,
oh wow.
So I'm well experienced withNew York in the dark.
Joshua Gilliland (04:57):
Yeah, the rest of us noticed Help was there.
The governor wouldn't be like.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (05:04):
One did not go very well and they
learned their lessons.
And then the second one washandled a lot differently, uh,
but, but there was a lot ofrioting, um, during the uh, the
late 70s, with the, the blackout, the, the year the yankees won
the uh world series, so 78, Iguess, uh, the summer of, and it
was the summer of Son of Sam.
(05:25):
It was a several-day blackoutand there was a lot of damage
done to certain parts of NewYork City.
There was a change inleadership for the second
blackout and it was handled alot more closer to martial law
(05:47):
and it was less rioting or therioting ended much sooner yeah,
uh, I'm sorry you went throughtwo of those.
Joshua Gilliland (05:56):
Uh, yeah, I I don't remember.
Remember in the 1989 earthquake, any writing that took place in
the bay area.
Now that was right at thebeginning of the 89 world series
and with the a's versus thegiants, it was our battle of the
bay.
Uh, so again, a lot of peoplewere getting ready to watch the
(06:17):
ball game.
There was chaos from, you know,bridge collapses and and other
horrible things that took place,but I don't remember any
rioting compared to say, youknow, hurricane, katrina, you
know like, again, naturaldisaster, blackout and things
(06:37):
get ugly.
But how people handle that, Imean I look at history from the
1906 earthquake and martial lawwas declared and San Francisco
in 1906 did not mess aroundAnywho.
On to the rest of the episodewith those historical real life
(06:59):
comparisons.
So we start with this one yearflashback with bullseye in
prison and vanessa visiting himand there's a reference to dare
does daredevil.
Season three with the fbi agentray nadim.
For those who don't recall,nadim was blackmailed by Wilson
(07:22):
Fisk.
Nadine had testified before agrand jury about the Kingpin
blackmailing of FBI agents intoprotecting the crime lord
because Kingpin was staying at ahotel for his incarceration.
The grand jury is alsocompromised.
(07:48):
Nadine returned home, waited tobe executed by Fisks and his
operatives and before being shotby Bullseye, nadine recorded a
confession and said it was hisdying declaration.
And I will highlight that's nothow dying declarations work.
Dying declaration is you'vebeen shot, you had a major
medical incident, you haveimpending death and you say
(08:12):
aliens are real.
I worked on ufos at area 51 andthen the person expires because
they're bleeding out.
It's that kind of thing, not.
I have my iphone and I'mrecording what could be a TikTok
video, hoping that gets intoevidence.
Sure, it might be a partyadmission at that point, because
(08:32):
it's really bad for FBI agentsto say, yes, we protected the
crime lord from furtherprosecution and turned into his
personal hit squad.
We don't like that as a society.
But again, it's not how dyingdeclarations work.
That trauma brought backmemories of season three and
it's just like that's not howthe law works.
(08:54):
But the fact that theyreferenced that as the acquittal
I found fascinating.
Your Honor, what were yourthoughts to this acquittal?
And then this document gettingsigned for Bullseye to get out
of prison to be Vanessa'shenchman caught the caption, the
(09:29):
signature.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Reti (09:29):
I mean there's really no kind of
civil conditional release thatyou know two people could sign.
That would then get someoneelse out of jail.
The only people that canrelease someone out of jail is
the government.
So I best I can guess it wassome kind of conditional release
where he was going to bereleased to some kind of work
program or program run by theKingpin so, but he wouldn't be a
(09:55):
necessary signatory to to that.
So I couldn't figure out whatin real life that that would
actually be, what in real lifethat that would actually be.
But it worked as a mechanism torelease Bullseye so that he can
continue to kind of do somework for Kingpin.
Joshua Gilliland (10:16):
Yeah, it was just weird.
I mean, Gabby, did you have anyreactions to this?
Gabby Martin (10:22):
Yeah, my biggest issue was that he's clearly, you
know, medicated and I'm prettysure you know Vanessa leans over
and kind of you know, does alittle you know helping
assistance there with thesignature.
And obviously, you know, as, asthe judge said, you know we
can't really identify what thisis and you know, obviously, the
(10:44):
government we can't reallyidentify what this is and you
know, obviously the governmenthe wouldn't really sign anything
as part of his release.
But even if this were somedocument that he's releasing,
that he's attesting to in someway, we kind of question whether
he A had the capacity to do so,because it looks like he's on
pretty strong medication.
(11:05):
You know he can't really formsentences.
He's having a kind of hard time, kind of part of it seems to be
emotional, but also part of itseems to be him being very
drugged up.
And then obviously, vanessaassisting you know we think of
terms of wills and trusts right,you can't kind of have somebody
sign, you know, assist yourvery wealthy loved one in
(11:28):
signing a will that you knowlends everything to you or
leaves everything to you.
So yeah, there's a lot of kindof also capacity issues.
If this was an actual legaldocument that he'd have to sign.
Joshua Gilliland (11:45):
It also just doesn't make sense, because it's
one thing if this is like somepower of attorney for getting
legal representation to look athis case, you know, encouraging
him, for we got this law firmthat's going to help you, but we
need you to sign so they canhelp you.
Like that I could get.
But this was just weird almostas weird as a dying declaration
(12:11):
where you're not dying, um, socall me old-fashioned, all right
.
Which then brings us to matttaking the shot aimed at kingpin
.
This turned out radicallydifferently than I expected,
because I expected kingpin tohave some very conflicted
feelings out of loyalty.
(12:32):
It's like, wow, this guy took abullet for me and instead it's
I should have him killed.
Let's finish this off once andfor all.
That.
That was not the result I wasexpecting, and I see shaking
heads Gabby, you're veryforceful here.
Gabby Martin (12:50):
Your reaction it kind of sets up the perfect
framework, right for this verypublic scene.
Um, nobody knows, uh, you know,except for the few people that
(13:10):
matt murdoch is is their devil,right?
Um, and it's not like he'spublicly revealed his identity,
like like an iron man or, youknow, spider-man or whoever, and
, um, you know.
(13:39):
So it sets up this very bigthing for him to put Fisk in.
He saved his wife, he savedFisk's life, right?
It kind of, you know, pay itback publicly because he did
this big, big right and it forme I thought they were going to
go with, as we talked about thematt as da route, right, and
have him name matt as da to kindof keep him closer, and he just
(14:01):
barrels past that and just says, nope, just just the dead
vigilante is, you know, orwhatever he says.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (14:08):
And it's just, a dead hero is
better than a live vigilante.
Joshua Gilliland (14:11):
That was a great yeah, yeah, I uh what.
What troubled me about it?
It it sends the.
Matt should not have taken thebullet, for the kingpin Society
would have been better off if hehad not been the hero, and
(14:32):
that's a really sad reactionthat their problems would.
New York would not have had abody count with police officers
just executing people in thestreet overnight if Kingpin had
been shot and Frank.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (14:47):
Castle really makes a point of that
when talking to Matt and saying,like how could you take a
bullet for this guy?
I mean, frank really kind ofjust couldn't wrap his brain
around that rightfully so, withKingpin's reaction.
Uh stories, thank you for forthat activity yeah, and that's
(15:12):
it's.
Joshua Gilliland (15:12):
It's just not a good reaction because it's
yeah, well, they would have beenbetter off if the kingpin had
died, like, literally, societywould have been better yeah, and
it really does seem to like andthis is why I had you know kind
of a challenge with it, is it?
Gabby Martin (15:28):
it almost seemed as if you know, cause obviously
there were rewrites with theshow, right.
They kind of scrapped a lot ofstuff and I always got the
impression that the firstepisode was them reusing a lot
of material that they hadalready filmed and then kind of
cutting to whatever storylinethey had they had wanted to kind
of implement.
But this seemed to almostreturn to that kind of odd
(15:50):
narrative structure that thefirst episode had and kind of
undercut all the work that wasdone over the season, you know,
with matt kind of pulling awayfrom his work as a defense
attorney, right, which wouldlead you to believe he's moving
to the prosecution side.
So, yeah, it just it was veryodd choice yeah, I mean there's.
Joshua Gilliland (16:13):
I did.
I did not read all of them, Ionly remember the articles about
them, of daredevil effectivelyrunning hill's kitchen and like
a little army of daredevilsrunning around.
Are we going that way instead?
Uh, it's just, it's just weird.
Um, it was very an unexpectedturn.
That leaves a bad taste in mymouth, because you cannot have
(16:38):
events of such magnitude andKate Bishop sit it out, miss
Marvel sit it out, spider-mansit it out.
You have all these heroes basedin New York and Clint Barton
probably suiting up and drivingdown from upstate to take action
.
So it's just a very weirdsituation because you have all
(17:03):
these vigilantes and heroes whowould not stand for this, so let
alone the rest of society.
That said, we then pivot to uh,what the okay?
So bad move if you're waking upfrom any procedure and you say
(17:27):
the old girlfriend's name to thecurrent girlfriend you already
had to say from an assassinationattempt.
Bad move.
Glad you have someone there tosay it's the drugs talking, but
still bad move.
You have someone there to sayit's the drugs talking, but
(17:51):
still bad move.
Uh, but let's get whatkingpin's up to with red hook
and the quest that our heroeseventually go on for uh figuring
out why red hook is important,so we got some notes here.
Uhby, can you talk to us aboutmoving funds through Red Hook?
Gabby Martin (18:07):
Yeah, so we finally get official
confirmation that he ismisappropriating city resources,
right, or, if he hasn't startedyet, he's certainly indicating
that that's his intention to dothat, right, because he tells
Vanessa that you know she hadmoved millions through Red Hook
(18:30):
and now he can move billions,right, so there's that financial
piece, and he also says thatthat's really why he ran for
mayor.
If that's maybe something thatchanged, maybe, but regardless
he is misappropriating cityresources, right.
So this is a violation, atminimum, of the conflict of
(18:52):
interest policy that we talkedabout in one of the earlier
episodes in New York andgenerally elsewhere, but
particularly in New York, um,under 2604B3, um cannot use
their position, uh, to obtainany financial gain, contract,
license or privilege, um, andthey can't use it for any
(19:16):
private or private financialinterests as well, um, and they
can't use confidentialinformation that they know as
elected officials or otherpublic servants to for financial
gain.
So then, at worst, right,that's at minimum violating kind
of his oath of office, right,and his kind of conflicts of
(19:38):
interest.
But you could make the argumentand I think it's pretty clear
from what he's admitting herethat there is a conspiracy to
commit fraud, right, that is, Ithink, what he is engaging,
vanessa, in that they're goingto do with Red Hook.
You know, we've seen this withother elected officials
(19:58):
defrauding under 18 US Code 371,there's a count to conspiracy
to commit offense or to defraudthe United States, which does
apply to states as well, as wesaw with Bridgegate.
And then, of course, wire fraud18 USC 1343.
(20:21):
So there is a scheme to defraud, right, they're using this for
financial gain, they have intentand obviously they didn't have
wire fraud there, right, becausethey're sitting in a room
together, but the minute theycall or text, as these
individuals often do, say Buckor anybody else, bang, you got
(20:44):
the communicating via wirecommunications.
So I do think they are on thehook for a bunch of other things
, but certainly committing fraudusing these city resources.
Joshua Gilliland (21:02):
Which brings us to the blackout.
But there are a a couple.
The blackout is a means, to theend, to push the city over the
edge, uh, to build upon a crisis.
That was just an assassinationattempt.
To how do we exploit theassassination attempt?
Uh, think well again.
(21:23):
They're not good comparisons,but but think how LBJ was
walking around with a copy ofthe Tonkin Gulf Resolution
before the Tonkin Gulf incidenthappened, like ready for that
authorization to use force inVietnam, just waiting for the
moment when that would give themreason to get that passed.
And Fisk wants to put a squeezeon the city council for an
(21:47):
ordinance to go into effect andis wanting to send people home
who aren't on board.
And we have this issue of thisblackout about to create chaos.
So, your honor, are you thevoice in the dark to explain the
blackout scenario?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (R (22:10):
Yeah , the mayor gives various orders
, he's in the city hall and hetells the task force you know
you're going to be going afterall the vigilantes.
We don't care about due process, we don't care about warrants
Clearly in violation of theFourth Amendment, which is the
(22:30):
right of people to be secure intheir persons, houses, papers
and effects against unreasonablesearches and seizures, shall
not be violated and no warrantsshall issue but upon probable
cause supported by oath oraffirmation.
Shall issue but upon probablecause supported by oath or
affirmation.
And clearly, you know I'vesigned countless warrants over
(22:50):
the years.
But there has to be a showingto you before you sign a warrant
, that there is good cause tosign this warrant.
And he was telling this taskforce of his that it didn't
matter that we are going to,without warrants, do what we
need to do to go against thevigilantes.
This would also be in violationof the Sixth Amendment, which
(23:14):
does give in all criminalproceedings, the accused shall
enjoy the right to a speedy andpublic trial.
This is basically whatguarantees you due process in a
criminal case and he doesn'tcare about that.
He's having them thrown intojail without any due process,
clearly something that can neverhappen in real life excessive.
(23:40):
Here people were being lockedin little cages and there was no
bail being set.
He then gives his marchingorders to Buck that Buck is to
go to the hospital and take careof Matt.
So much for him being graciousfor Matt saving his life.
He then goes to his chief ofstaff, sheila, who says I need
(24:03):
to know who is out to get me andwho is loyal on the staff.
And then he has a scene withthe Con Ed worker and we really
don't know at that moment why heis talking to a Con Ed worker
about.
And we soon learned that whatit is is to basically either
shut off or short circuit thecity's power so that there would
(24:28):
be a blackout which would thengive him the opportunity to
declare martial law, which washis plan to create chaos and in
that chaos basically become adictator of New York City.
Joshua Gilliland (24:50):
All not good, all not good.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (24:55):
And while he's doing all this, he
has to take care of the one goodgovernment official that seems
to be left, which is the policecommissioner conversation, that
the police commissioner is goingto be going to Albany and to
(25:16):
the governor and basically tellwhat is going on in the city of
New York.
Sheila clearly plays thisrecording for the kingpin.
Who, then, is going to takecare of Police Commissioner
Gallo?
Joshua Gilliland (25:32):
I'm all for separation of powers and a
federalist state of federalgovernment, state, local
government, but the state of newyork is not going to sit this
one out like they.
They, the governor, should beon the phone going like what?
What is going on?
Because there are state officesin new york city, I presume,
(25:53):
just as there are state officesin New York City, I presume,
just as there are state officesin, you know, some of the
capital cities here inCalifornia, whether it's Oakland
, san Francisco, san Jose, youknow there are state offices.
They have to take notice.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (26:10):
And the state of New York has a lot
of power with dealing with thecity and overruling things that
the city does in fact do.
I mean, even you know Kingpindeclares martial law.
That's not something, governor,who can declare martial law?
And I was part of the statelegal militia for a number of
(26:39):
years and you know we drilled onmartial law and in some
municipalities where there was adeclaration of emergency by the
local declarer, by the locality, because a locality can declare
an emergency but it's only thestate that can declare martial
law.
Once there's an emergency, thestate might send troops to bring
(27:01):
the peace, to help out torescues, and I did many missions
in the state with hurricanesand with ice and with other
things when the governoractivated us after the
municipality called thoseemergencies.
Joshua Gilliland (27:16):
Yeah, what you can't it's the.
I am fine with the visuallyimpaired lawyer that has a radar
sense, I'm all on board withthat.
I'm not on board with thegovernor of New York sleeping
through a blackout and taking noaction and that there's only
one elected official in new yorkcity.
(27:37):
You know that that was willingto go to the governor and say
something.
You know a foul was happeninghere.
That just it's too big of acity for them to ignore.
And maybe one thing if it wassome small town and where people
don't recognize what'shappening that quickly, that
(28:00):
that's more plausible for it togo.
It's going to take a couplehours to figure out what
happened here, opposed to it'sNew York City.
So the feds would be involved.
There's a huge federalfootprint in New York City,
Putting a very big FBIheadquarters in New York City.
Yeah, yeah, they're not going togo like golly gee, we're going
(28:22):
to let the mayor handle this.
Just no, just no.
Which?
Then let's talk about the SaferStreet Initiative.
Let's talk about the saferstreet initiative.
We have the deputy mayor ofcommunications doing the
shakedown like a mob boss on thecity council, or at least
members of the city council toagain it's.
(28:44):
It looks a lot like organizedcrime of.
This is an awfully nice car youhave here type situation.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Ret (28:56):
We clearly learned that Deputy
Mayor Daniel is Deputy Mayor ofShakedown.
Joshua Gilliland (29:02):
Yeah, yeah, communications is just an
honorarium because he'scommunicating threats.
Not good, not good.
We also have someone get shotby a police officer that was
looting Looting bad Individualshould not have been doing.
(29:24):
That Individual should havebeen stopped and prosecuted.
All for that.
Individual should not have hada summary execution and then a
mask put over his face andsaying it was just a vigilante.
Because now we've entered toplanting evidence to cover up
summary executions and justthat's the abandonment of law,
(29:47):
that's the abandonment of therule of law and it's turned into
rule of the gun and they'reliving in a fascist state at
this point and it's just.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (R (29:56):
It's just messed up and it was very
clear that the looter, whencaught by the police stopped.
You know he didn't take anyovert action against the police,
you know so they were.
They were very clear in kind ofshowing that the police had
absolutely no justification tokill this looter.
Joshua Gilliland (30:19):
Yeah, it's just evil Gabby.
Gabby Martin (30:23):
Yeah, no, and it's really, you know, we, you know
again excessive force and all ofthat out of it.
Because obviously, as the judgesaid, that's very clear, right,
um.
But the other thing, um, hereis that they are guilty of
tampering with evidence, right,they fabricate evidence by
(30:46):
pulling um the the hoodie or thebeanie over his head to make
him look like he has a mask onright.
And so in, under New York lawit's a class E felony to tamper
with physical evidence,including knowingly making,
(31:08):
devising or preparing falsephysical evidence.
So these cops would be guiltyof not only excessive force and
murder and all of that sort ofthing, but, you know, tampering
with physical evidence as well.
And I think, just to circle backon the you know Deputy Mayor
Daniel, he talks about askinggently in quotes, asking them to
(31:30):
leave.
The mayor has really no, theseare elect, it's.
You know, making thedistinction between the
employees.
They're kind of asking to leaveor stay home or whatever.
These are elected officials.
All the members of the New YorkCity Council are duly elected
officials.
So there probably is some, youknow, leeway they have there
(31:53):
right in extreme circumstances.
But just saying oh, you'redismissed is not necessarily.
They are elected and notappointed positions.
So we'll talk about some otherappointed positions in a bit,
but these are elected officials.
Joshua Gilliland (32:09):
Yeah, you don't get to do a shakedown on
the opposition party.
They too are elected, whichpivots us to Karen.
And well, matt Murdock goeshome escaping an assassination
attempt and the Punisher thereis waiting for him in this
(32:30):
blackout, and they have a homeinvasion of police officers that
are now a kill squad to go outand kill Matt Murdock and they
enter Murdock's home.
So we're talking literal castledoctrine at this point in time
(32:50):
of corrupt law enforcement.
So one could argue that theyare not acting in accordance
with the law, even thoughthey're wearing uniforms and
murdoch and castle defendingthemselves from being murdered.
This is problematic in allkinds of levels because
(33:11):
technically, you're not supposedto resist law enforcement, but
uh, when it's a hit squad andlooking like something out of a
dictatorship, it's in a newcategory that doesn't exist.
Now.
There were comments about theAmerican Civil War should have
been settled in the courts, towhich Lincoln made the comment
(33:32):
that there's no court, that, uh,you know this exceeds any
jurisdiction of a court, andthey're kind of in that
situation right now.
There's no motion to file.
Uh, when people are coming intoyour home with rocket launchers
and grenades, um, it's a, it'sa new level and uh it.
It flies in the face of what weexpect in civil society,
(33:56):
because none of that should behappening.
You should not have kill squadssent by the mayor to eliminate
you.
So is self-defense justified?
Yeah, because that's stoppinglaw enforcement and transcended
into a criminal enterprise.
Would either of you like toshare any other comments on that
(34:17):
?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Reti (34:18):
I like their Punisher shirts, you
know, so that again kind ofshowed the Punisher connection
from this kill squad.
And I was also very glad to seeKaren return to the show,
because I like her character alot and I'm hopeful that she'll
be around for the next season alot more than she was this
(34:39):
season you know the actress isalso fun on social media like
loves the fans and yeah, she's ashe's a true fellow geek, which
is nice to see yeah, it's justlike she's, she's got cred from
true blood and everything elsethat she's been in and it's, you
know, does signings for charityand it's like, okay, cool, like
(35:01):
you're, you're in this, uh,gabby, any other comments?
Gabby Martin (35:06):
no, this was the um highlight.
The scene was the highlight ofthe episode for me, although I
think and this goes back to whatI commented before of you know,
everybody in this episode is,or you know, shows, very durable
.
Um, because we tend to forgetthat matt escapes the hospital
to obviously flee uh buck,killing him within hours of
(35:30):
being shot through the the upperchest, which, granted, I
imagine it didn't hit anycritical arteries.
That's why he like or organs,which is why he woke up so
quickly.
Um, but he's still.
He has a gaping, bleeding woundand he takes a lot of hits and
keeps moving.
(35:50):
Um, so so I guess the laws ofwound care and general, the
things that would affect you orI in our reality here do not
affect those in this show and inthe whatever reality universe
(36:11):
the Daredevil show takes placein.
Joshua Gilliland (36:13):
Having been under general anesthesia for
surgery and then been on theresulting pain meds, I would not
be in fighting condition atthat point in time.
And I appreciate okay, theydidn't hit the lung or heart
Cool, that's fantastic.
But I'm like he's's gonna bestapled shut like there's that's
(36:40):
.
Gabby Martin (36:40):
That's a lot of flexing with and he walks, he
walks from the hospital to hisapartment and then he does some
more fight.
I don't know, I don't.
I don't think the laws ofphysics apply.
Joshua Gilliland (37:11):
Taking out the IV would be hard.
To do that without bleeding isa challenge.
So, yeah, there's.
Yeah, he takes a beating andkeeps on ticking, just as Frank
does as well.
But that then pivots to.
Let's go look at records andstorage, which highlights the
importance of records management.
You do have to save records fora statutory amount of time and
you know the great BrowningMorian, who was a new discovery
luminary, who wrote a book onrecords management.
He tragically passed away andhe was.
(37:33):
He was a good friend, but whenbrowning wrote his book there's
like 14 000 records retentionlaws in the united states.
A decade ago I don't think thatnumber went down.
So let's just say that minimumseven years that they have to
hold on to records so everythingfrom that law firm with Murdoch
(37:54):
or Nelson and Page is instorage for a specific amount of
time and luckily it's not IronMountain so it's easier to gain
access to, because normally thatstuff is intentionally hard to
get to because it's confidentialin nature, with attorney,
client work, product andcommunications.
(38:16):
So, like you have to protect it, they're able to get in, they,
they do their thing and theyfind this information about red
hook gabby.
This looks like your notesabout what's a freeport and her
notes on freeport.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (38:31):
But give me two seconds before we
get to this.
Yes, go for it, the Freeport.
They find a motion, that wasthat they cite the Red Hook
Charter of 1855, which, at leastas far as my research that does
not exist.
Maybe I'm wrong, but what mademe think of which?
(38:52):
does exist is, during the OccupyWall Street cases in New York
which I presided over some 2,500of them one of defense lawyers
did find various treatiesdealing with the King of England
(39:20):
turning over the property toTrinity Church and in an effort
to show that Trinity Churchwasn't technically the legal
owner of many of the propertiesin New York.
If I were to accept thisparticular defense that was
raised and when I heard this RedHook Charter 1855, that's the
(39:41):
first thing I thought of was allof the various things dealing
with Trinity Church and them notbeing the rightful landlord
because of these various oldhistorical treaties, and I
initially was going to write onall of this into some omnis
decision.
And then I kind of was a littlebit fearful as to where that
(40:02):
might lead me as to ownership inNew York City and I decided
just to roll from the bench andlet the appellate courts deal
with it if they needed to dealwith it, and it never became an
issue.
But that's what this Red HookCharter of 1855 reminded me of
and on that note I'll turn it toGabby to discuss Freeport.
Gabby Martin (40:20):
Yeah, no, and it's really interesting because,
like you said, you know, when wethink of and we mentioned this
before like New England, newYork, the original 13 colonies,
they did exist before you knowkind of, we had the you know
Declaration of Independence, theBill of Rights, all of these
(40:41):
things that we, you know, thinkof as governing law here, there
were much older documents, right, that governed society before
the kind of modern laws we havetoday.
But the way they describe thisfree port of Red Hook, where it
(41:01):
would make all crimes legal andbecome its own city state, I
don't know if that's necessarilythe case because, similar to
the judge, all I could find inmy research is the concept of a
free port has more to do withtaxes than it does with, you
know, say, any sort of laws,quote, unquote, right or
(41:22):
criminal laws.
So it's really, it's a placedesignated.
We see this in the UK, Ibelieve there's some in Ireland
as well, and various placesthroughout the world and these,
and none in the US currentlythat we know of, are designated
by the government as areas withlittle to no tax in order to
(41:44):
encourage economic activity.
They're located geographicallywithin a country, but they
essentially exist outside of itsborders for tax purposes.
I think that's the part that'sleft off in the daredevil kind
of concept of a free port.
So, in essence, companies thatare operating within these free
ports can benefit from deferringthe payment of taxes until
(42:08):
their products are movedelsewhere, right?
So the idea of a free port isthat it's somewhere where goods
are held temporarily, right,they're not there permanently,
so they're not taxed there,they're taxed somewhere else.
So companies can either paytaxes when the goods are moved
somewhere else For example, ifthese are raw goods, right, they
(42:29):
don't pay taxes untilnecessarily something is built,
or they don't pay taxes untilnecessarily something is built
or, you know, finished a productis finished or they could avoid
them altogether if they bringin goods to store or manufacture
on site for exporting.
Again, that kind of rawmaterials argument.
In the UK there's several ofthem and other places throughout
(42:54):
the world, but this is verymuch a tax thing, not
necessarily applying to laws orstuff like that.
Joshua Gilliland (43:05):
Yeah, and 1855 is after the founding of the
United States, so that, like allthis would require the United
States carving out.
I misheard it and that it was1755 or something along those
lines.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (43:34):
And so I went back, and you know,
and no, they did say 1855.
Joshua Gilliland (43:40):
Yeah, so timing doesn't work either.
No, because it would havealways been part of the United
States.
You would need an affirmativeact to carve it out of the
United States.
I'm not aware of us doing thatas a country, saying that this
port is now no longer part ofthe United States for tax
purposes.
(44:00):
That seems very alien andagainst our nature as a country.
Gabby Martin (44:08):
Yeah, and it's interesting.
It's, you know, kind of wetalked about some of the gaps in
structure of this episode andit just seems like, again, it's
a simple thing, to just call it1755 or even you know, 1655
would have probably been better,because that would have put you
square in, kind of when thecolonies were kind of you know,
(44:29):
setting up shop and all thatkind of stuff, and put you well
away from, uh, you know, anykind of is there law, is there
not law?
Type of thing.
Um, but it's just odd that theychose 1855.
It almost reads like a typo ina script, um, that people went
with.
And then the production, youknow company, was like, oh, now
(44:51):
we have to make this documentthat says 1855, right, so it
seems like a typo.
That just kind of grew legs,right, and somebody I'm sure is
maybe some person that wasworking on the script and was
like, oh, shoot, that wassupposed to say 1655, my bad, uh
(45:12):
.
Joshua Gilliland (45:12):
So if that person ends up listening to this
podcast, I'm sorry that we'recalling out your typo yeah, was
this some writers gettingtogether like wouldn't it be
cool if the the united stateshad a part that wasn't the
united states where murder couldbe legal and there's no taxes?
It's like what libertarianfever dream are you living in of
(45:36):
?
Just no.
Like, no, we don't do that.
Like you're not going to have aport in the united states
that's going to be controlled bythe United States Coast Guard,
because if this is like freereign, free enterprise, we do
whatever we want.
Now it's a soft target forterrorists and nuclear weapons
(45:58):
and other things that can doharm to the country.
That makes no senseanalytically.
That's just not something thatwe would tolerate.
I'm pretty sure if it didhappen, we would fix that very
quickly with an act of Congressto go yeah, we've just annexed
this and here's your justcompensation.
Bye, bye.
Gabby Martin (46:20):
Yeah, it's a fascinating concept, though,
like it's a fascinatingnarratively, the idea that this
place exists where kingpin cankind of operate without rules,
but it's within the geographicalbounds of new york city.
Um, you know, and again, ifthey had specifically kept it to
(46:40):
tax purposes, which seems to bekind of you know, there could
be a nefarious element there.
Right, you know we talk abouttax evasion and all these sorts
of things, right, um, you knowthe idea that they, that art
dealers like vanessa and others,would use these things to their
advantage to park, uh, artthere, which essentially seemed
(47:01):
to be what she was doing parkingart there and then moving it
and not having to pay taxes.
That does get her a windfall,but it keeps it more within the
bounds of something thatactually kind of legally exists.
Joshua Gilliland (47:15):
It's like Martha's Vineyard declaring
independence, like it's just itdoesn't make sense of.
You know what we?
We're now in charge ofourselves.
Just it doesn't make sense.
Gabby Martin (47:27):
I mean I will say Key West has tried to declare
independence before they havetried to annex themselves.
So islands of the United Statesor coastal areas declaring
annexation is not completelywithout history.
Joshua Gilliland (47:49):
But at least that would be more plausible, as
opposed to a chunk of New YorkCity being a city-state where
commerce can just flow in andout without regulation.
So no, because the propertydeal to buy things is still
(48:09):
controlled by the state.
So nobody owns this.
None of the land deals matternow, because they're not subject
to the laws of the UnitedStates.
Okay, again, it's legallynonsensical.
They, they needed a way to havea place where red hook or
(48:31):
whatever could be for kingpin tooperate with impunity, and this
is what they came up with.
And it's just legally weird,like it doesn't make sense.
But there are things that, uh,continue to not make sense Again
(48:55):
.
We've talked aboutPunisherverse, all of the
corrupt task force.
We've talked about Sheilaratting out the commissioner.
I don't think we need to straytoo far to say what happens to
the police, commissioner, ismurder.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (49:07):
But it did bring back Kingpin's
favorite mechanism of murder inthe comic book, so that really
hadn't been seen in this TV show.
Joshua Gilliland (49:16):
Crushing the skull.
Judge Matthew Sciarrin (49:17):
Crushing the skull with his bare hands.
So you know the Kingpin methodwas quite sick.
Joshua Gilliland (49:28):
To say the least.
And and you know what wouldannoy me uh, trying to play this
every man card in order to turnthe police officers against
their commissioner.
You know the, the person thatthey've known probably their
entire career, or known of theirentire career, is someone.
He's not for you, but I was inprison for murdering lots of
(49:50):
people and I'm on your side.
I don't think law enforcementwould bend to the kingpin's will
like that, I think that and yousaw their faces when he crushed
his skull.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Reti (50:01):
I mean, it was not like a.
Those were not happy.
Looks from the officers.
They were scared.
Looks from the officers.
Yeah were scared.
Looks from the officers.
Joshua Gilliland (50:10):
Yeah, it sends a message of I'm on the wrong
team, I'm leaving now Bye-bye.
A few people highlight that ofyay, let's do more of this.
So we have the next morningkingpin does a news conference.
(50:34):
He appoints heather to be thecommissioner of mental health.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Ret (50:39):
uh , she agrees again another
showing of why you don't mentionthe girlfriend's name at the
hospital when your othergirlfriend's there yeah, just
just.
Joshua Gilliland (50:52):
I mean, I understand he was medicated, but
you gotta just just no, uh,just no, no, no, uh, yeah, uh,
we have the safer streetsinitiative which looks like was
enacted overnight.
So again, it's that Tonkin Gulf.
You know, 99 to one or 99 totwo type passage of.
(51:14):
Did anyone read this?
You know, it's just.
It's like the declaration ofwar against Japan on December
8th was 99 to one.
You know, like Jeanette Rankin,excuse me, yeah, we weren't at
100 yet, we didn't have 50states, but it was everybody but
Jeanette Rankin voted for thedeclaration of war because she
(51:38):
was an avowed pacifist andpromptly thrown out of office at
the next election.
Because that doesn't, therewasn't a good option.
Because that doesn't therewasn't a good option.
Those who were not on board withthe Tonkin Gulf Resolution are
remembered with more favor thosewho were voices against the
(51:59):
Patriot Act or, you know, theauthorization to use force after
9-11, there's kinder historicalviews of them now for a variety
of reasons.
But this is passed in themiddle of the night because of a
(52:23):
blackout, so it's a fraudulentreason.
There's duress involved in whythey get voted on.
So all bad, but it says anyvigilante, illegal activity is
illegal.
Illegal, which is kind of thepoint of vigilantism.
It's already illegal, it's nowmore illegal.
It's like speeding through a.
You're not supposed to speedthrough a neighborhood, but it's
more illegal if you speed by aschool.
It's that kind of logic.
(52:44):
Um, it's now more illegal andapparently there are shoot to
kill orders.
We have a reference here tomilitary law, with the governor
to declare martial law.
Your Honor, was that anythingto add upon that?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Ret (53:00):
No , it's just that it's a power of
the governor and not of themayor.
The mayor can declare a stateof emergency for the city, but
the only one who can declaremartial law for the geographical
, for New York State, or anypart thereof, is the governor of
New York.
Joshua Gilliland (53:17):
Gabby, you have some notes about under
Executive Law 24.
Would you like to add anythingto that?
Gabby Martin (53:22):
Yeah, so, going off of that, the mayor does have
, as we mentioned before, thepower to declare an emergency,
and part of that is that youknow, kind of teasing out what
Fisk does, what is legal, whatis not Part of what is.
He can't obviously declaremartial law, as we've talked
about, but he can set arestrictions in place if he
(53:47):
declares a state of emergency,you know, to kind of all within
public safety, right, there arecertain restrictions on this,
including the duration of time.
This does not exist kind of inperpetuity, these powers.
But you know he can, you know,establish a curfew, prohibit
people from moving around atcertain times, right, curfew,
(54:10):
prohibit people from movingaround at certain times, right.
Designation of specific zones,you know, within which the
occupancy and use of thebuilding may be prohibited and
regulated regulated of closingof places of amusement and
assembly, suspension andlimitation of sale of alcoholic
beverages, explosive firearms,flammable materials and liquids,
prohibition and control thepresence of persons on public
(54:34):
streets and places.
Designation of emergency shelterwhich is what we usually see
when a official declares anemergency but I don't think Fisk
is opening any emergencyshelters for anybody and the
suspension of particular laws,which I guess you could maybe
(54:59):
argue.
That's what he's trying to dohere with martial law, you know,
is really leaning into thatsuspension of laws.
But you just you can't do that.
And, Josh, as you said, peoplewould notice if he tried to do
this.
He and he had a pressconference about it too.
Joshua Gilliland (55:14):
So, uh, people would notice yeah, like the
governor, the senate, ussenators, the state legislature,
they would go.
What?
No, like you don't get to dothis.
Uh, uh, new, uh, which then uh,pivots back to the hero, with
(55:38):
them realizing that they'regoing to go raise an army and
naturally following, you know,the like tradition of the green
dragon.
You know our heroes gather in abar and that's where you know
we have some law enforcement andothers deciding to uh plan
their next step against, uh, themayor, uh, who is no longer
(56:00):
acting as a public servant.
Uh, we do find out that in redhook we have people in little
cages, which includes Jack who,after our last episode and
wondering about the swordsman,thinking that that was
originally like Hawkeye'sidentity way back to Avengers.
That was either 16 or 19.
(56:21):
I remember reading it as a kid.
Jack is the swordsman who'salways been a foil to hawkeye
and clint barton.
So the fact that the hawkeye tvseries had jack as kate
bishop's mother's love interestwas a nice deep cut twist that I
(56:45):
didn't pick up on until doing alittle research, because kudos
to them for making that kind ofa deep cut comic connection.
That was very subtle, very welldone, and you know back to you
know just the early doubledigits of the Avengers comics.
So that was very cool, but itshould go without saying saying
(57:10):
you can't just put people incages and throw away the key.
Um, especially, it looks likedog cages, like we're talking
golden retriever.
You know it's like people can't.
You're not supposed to do that.
Just no, um, just no.
And we then pivot to season twoafter a mid-credits scene that
(57:34):
makes more sense for FrankCastle breaking the arm off a
dude in order to presumablyescape.
I would hope Frank takes peoplewith him, because you have all
these people with checkbooks whoare now going to be very
motivated.
Not that I'm encouraging thatbehavior I am not but from a
(57:57):
comic book perspective thatmakes sense.
You don't leave people behind,all right.
Either of you have any othercomments or thoughts on this?
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (58:10):
you have any other comments or
thoughts on this?
The slogan of the new rebelgroup to resist, rebel and
rebuild.
We are a city without fear.
We'll make a nice t-shirt, I'msure, and soon to be for sale by
Disney.
But yeah, you know, like wesaid it's, you know it's clearly
a setup for the next season.
So while, like you, I don'tcare about a cliffhanger, there
(58:33):
was just several missteps inthis episode that unfortunately
after a really good season.
I wish they had hit a home runas opposed to a double.
Joshua Gilliland (58:47):
Yeah, and I still think it's stronger than
the first season on netflix,because the first season had a
bunch of filler episodes.
Yes, this had no fillerepisodes, it was just the finale
that leads to season two.
Had some say what moments to it?
Gabby Martin (59:05):
uh, that, again, that was a writer's room that
needed a little more work, butoverall, I think this was
stronger than season one and, uh, I will defend that if I need
to so and gabby your thoughtsyeah, I mean, for me again, it
kind of it started strong, um,you know, like I said, I loved
(59:27):
the fight with Frank and Matt inthe apartment, but where it
gets to at the end, again I'mlike you guys open to a
cliffhanger.
But I think there just wouldhave been a stronger finish had
it been, you know not this likeall out war zone that it seems
(59:49):
to be.
You know, I think what I reallyliked was leaning into the kind
of political machinations of itall right, and you know, I
think it would have been a muchstronger arc had you maybe not
done, you know you could haveyou still had him turn into like
Mayor Kingpin, right, um, but Ithink, having that, you know
you could have you still had himturn into like Mayor Kingpin,
(01:00:09):
right, but I think, having that,you know, having him still
navigate the political landscape, having Matt as DA right,
having this more nuanced, right,because I think for me, where
it ended up, whereas it's thislike fighting, you know, fist
and fist, you know like withkind of more violence than kind
(01:00:33):
of intellect and politicalstrategy and all that which I
think was the strong point ofthe season, um, and so I'm
interested to see how they kindof you know, set it up because,
again, like, there's a lot ofpeople in New York that are
affected by this and it's notjust going to be like you know,
(01:00:56):
like, where do you take thisarmy right?
Do you immediately depose Fisk,do you?
You know, like, why are peoplenot coming to New York City like
to deal with this?
You know?
So, for me that was the kind ofletdown.
I think there was probablydeeper, more richer storytelling
they could have done and thisjust seems to be like you know,
(01:01:19):
oh, let's have them just be.
You know enemies and you knowfight against each other type of
thing.
Joshua Gilliland (01:01:25):
Yeah, because it could have been more
interesting with a giant plottwist of he saved me.
Now what?
And fisk actually growing intothe role of mayor and trying to
be the mayor, like that'sthere's, there's nuance to that,
there's character growth tothat, as opposed to now being
(01:01:48):
john the bastard of I'm avillain for being of the
villain's sake, and everythingwith the kingpin is aggressive
urban renewal so he can makemoney, so it's a nice place for
him to live.
I just I've missed opportunityto do more after having so many
excellent, thoughtful pointsfrom a guy who steals fiddle,
(01:02:13):
faddle, getting the book thrownat him to those who are doing
truly ugly crimes getting out sothey can commit more ugly
crimes.
So there's uh, yeah, I don'tknow if they just boxed
themselves in and they didn'tknow how to get to season two or
what the you know, did they getnotes?
I mean, there are all theseweird questions.
(01:02:34):
I'll be here for it.
I'll absolutely be here for it,but they wrote a bigger story
that should involve othercharacters.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (01:02:46):
And that bigger story is in the
comic book arc.
That kind of is this story.
I mean it's so.
You know you don't necessarilywant to go word for word for the
comic book art because you dowant to create some surprise.
Granted, the the market forthose that are reading the comic
books as opposed to watchingthe tv are drastically, uh,
different and most peoplewouldn't know that this was
(01:03:08):
taken from from that comic bookstory.
But that series, the arc wherehe remains the mayor, his wife
kind of runs the criminalenterprise and Matt becomes the
DA, and this could still be theway it goes.
But it was a very, very good,good, thoughtful arc as opposed
(01:03:29):
to let's just have a good guysagainst bad guys war yeah, it's
again.
Joshua Gilliland (01:03:35):
There are other ways forward.
That would have been um,because it was on this really
neat setup.
Gabby Martin (01:03:41):
And then episode nine does a left turn that it's
like, okay, that's so, there'sno character growth, got it yeah
, and I think for me too, eventhe the one, uh, main cop of the
of the task force, right, um, Ikept seeing that he was going
(01:04:01):
to potentially turn on thisoperation, right um, you know,
because they do paint himinitially as this bad guy right,
that's roughing up guys, um.
But then he does say that, youknow, his brother wears this
badge, his dad wears this badgeand there's a dedication to what
the badge stands for, you know.
And even when he's holding upthe mask of a muse, it seems
(01:04:24):
like he's not fully into thislie that's being sold.
But then he's like, no, I'mjust gonna like, stand here for
all of this kind of um, you know, silliness, so you know, and
this violence and and all ofthis kind of thing.
So again, yeah, it's, it's amissed opportunity for, for
deeper character development, Ithink, all the way around and
(01:04:47):
make people think because it's.
Joshua Gilliland (01:04:51):
It's a sad fact that a lot of the stories
that we get in pop culture arejust fast cars, bright lights,
explosions and you know, youknow, punch the bad guy, as
opposed to something with nuancethat gets people to think of oh
, wait a minute, like what is?
Oh yeah, how is there no growth?
How is there no thought?
(01:05:12):
Like you know, people realizeis this a good idea?
Do I want to be on this path?
So, um, or some.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (R (01:05:21):
Some missed opportunities is what it
comes down to yeah, missedopportunity.
Joshua Gilliland (01:05:25):
Overall, I give it a minus.
You know this season, so againI thought it was.
I looked forward to it eachweek.
Um, enjoyed getting to talkabout it each week, grateful to
have it.
So it's not like you'rewatching, it's like we're dumber
for this, like that hashappened of this has hurt all of
(01:05:45):
us and there will beramifications.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (01:05:48):
And they had some great legal
issues, some great courtroomscenes, some great real legal
evidentiary issues.
So clearly, as lawyers, this isa real fun show to watch and I
understand that not everyonewatching the show is a lawyer,
(01:06:09):
so we have to not necessarilyjust deal only with legal issues
.
But there were a lot of missedopportunities to develop the
characters a little bit morefully and to discuss ideas that
matter today, which is reallywhat sci-fi and is about.
It's about you, you know, andmarvel has always been this.
(01:06:30):
If you look from their theirearly 60s comic books, it's
always been a social commentaryon what's going on now, and
there were some missedopportunities to just turn it
into a us versus them, vigilanteversus non-vigilante, dirty
cops against the.
You know, just some missedopportunities.
Joshua Gilliland (01:06:49):
Yeah, it's grateful to have it, you know,
and thankful for the cast andcrew who, like the, the behind
the scenes photos of, like the,the black tie party looks like
they had a rocking good timewith sitting and it was like you
want to hang out with thoseguys Cause they it looks like
they had so much fun with uh,like vincent with the band.
(01:07:12):
It's like dude cool.
Like more of that.
And uh, or is there video?
Because people would probablyenjoy him singing and uh, so
more of that please yeah, andexcellent acting.
Judge Matthew Sciarrino (Re (01:07:27):
You know there was.
We're not making any badcommentary as to the parts.
This is D'Onofrio played anamazing role.
You know.
Everyone really played theircharacter well.
The characters could have beendeveloped a little bit more
nuanced in that last episode.
Joshua Gilliland (01:07:47):
Yeah, yeah.
And the fact that it's just atthe end we're like this could
use just a hint more cooking umsays a lot about the quality of
the show.
So with that, everyone, thanksfor tuning in.
We're going to have a recap ofstar war celebration, we're
going to start talking aboutandor season two very shortly
and we're going to have a busysummer.
(01:08:09):
There are lots of cool thingscoming up and stay tuned for
more.
So everyone, wherever you are,stay safe, stay healthy and stay
geeky, take care.
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