July 17, 2025 • 22 mins
In this episode of Mental Health Pathfinders, host Erin Connors sits down with former NFL first-round pick Marcus Smith II, whose powerful story of anxiety, depression, and recovery is helping reshape how athletes and the broader public view mental health. From battling silent struggles throughout his football career to launching his nonprofit, Circle of M, Marcus opens up about healing, vulnerability, and purpose. He shares how a life-threatening moment led to a new mission: creating space for others to unmask their pain and access real support. Whether you're an athlete, coach, parent, or advocate, this episode offers vital insights on how we can all be part of changing the culture around mental health.
Learn more about Marcus’ work at: https://www.thecircleofm.com
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Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Welcome to Mental Health Pathfinders.
I'm your host, Erin Connors.
Our guest today is Marcus Smith II, a former first round NFL draft pick who turned hispersonal mental health journey into a mission to transform how athletes talk about
healing.
Through his work with the Circle of M, with the APA Foundation and more, he's creatingspace for vulnerability, purpose and real change.
(00:28):
What a thrill to have you here today, Marcus.
This is such an important topic.
Man, thank you.
Thank you for having me again.
This is obviously an amazing topic.
This is something that, especially as athletes want to continue to push the message.
So glad to be here.
It's an amazing day to day.
(00:50):
So thank you.
absolutely.
And you've had a remarkable evolution from elite athlete to mental health advocate.
Let's talk about some of the key moments that kind of shape that path and who you aretoday.
Yeah, so I think for me, one of the key moments was first, when I was eight, I had myfirst anxiety attack, but I didn't realize that that was a thing back then.
(01:18):
I didn't really realize it until I actually got into therapy going into my fifth year inthe league.
So when you talk about mental health, you're talking about looking at a lot of the traumasand the things that we deal with as a child.
That was the first thing that happened.
I had an anxiety attack and then my parents, nor my grandparents kind of knew what it wasand we kind of just swept it under the rug.
(01:43):
And so that led me to having anxiety and depression as I was playing sports.
So sports ended up being my band-aid, if you will.
It ended up being my band-aid and I was able to get through all the way to the NFL until Ireally couldn't, uh you know, deal with the pain anymore.
Let's go back to college.
(02:03):
You you made a major transition switching from quarterback to linebacker.
Wow.
And you still rose to an ACC Defensive Player of the Year.
How did you manage to change, you know, manage change under pressure like that?
And did it teach you about adapting to these like intense, high visibility environments?
Yeah, it was tough.
(02:23):
It was tough trying to switch to a position that I'd never played before.
I never played the position.
I played quarterback my whole entire life.
Right.
So I'm throwing the rock.
I'm thinking that, hey, maybe I'm going to be Tim Tebow or maybe I'm going to be a Heismanwinner.
That's what I was thinking going into college.
And so if you think about anxiety, anxiety kind of played with me when I was in college aswell because of the change.
(02:49):
Right.
And so I'm going over there and now I'm going up against 300 pounds.
liming every day and I'm like 230 pounds.
So if you can think of a huge guy and now I'm going up against them, those guys used to beblocking for me.
Now I'm going up against them every day.
So the switch came when my coach, his name is Clinton Hurt.
(03:10):
He's also the Divas Align coach for the Philadelphia Eagles.
Now he just won the Superbowl.
He was my coach in college and he kind of helped me get through
those moments when I would be having anxiety attacks in my sleep, but also having anxietyattacks while I was in the facility because it was an unknown thing.
(03:31):
And we all know that anxiety is kind of, you know, it's kind of unknown, right?
Those are the things that you're thinking about.
And so, ah yeah, as I was pushing forward through college, it was a tough experience, butI was able to push through it enough for me to
um get through those tough moments to kind of be where I am today.
(03:55):
I saw on one of your Instagram posts that you were really struggling at one point and thenyou got two different phone calls that almost saved your life.
Talk a little bit about that.
That's really interesting.
Yeah, so when I was in Seattle, I just signed a one year deal with the Seattle Seahawks,Pete Carroll, my coach, obviously that I just talked about who's coach with the Eagles now
(04:19):
he was in Seattle.
So my career was going on the up and up.
It was going in the right direction.
I was going into year five in the NFL, but I hadn't yet addressed the anxiety anddepression issues that I had been facing since I was eight.
And so if you could look at on the outside, everything is going.
correctly, but I was dying on the inside because I had yet to address those things.
(04:42):
And so that's what those phone calls where I had got to a point where I was just tired ofbeing in pain.
And I thought that I should be happier than what I was.
And I was like, why am I so sad all the time?
Why is nothing going the right way for me mentally?
And so as I'm going through that process, I started to
(05:05):
drive to the facility and I did try to commit suicide.
And that's just one of the, the realest way I could say it.
I tried to do it twice because it wasn't thinking of me ending my life.
It was more so thinking of me ending the pain.
And a lot of people who are going through pain, that's all they want to do.
(05:27):
They don't, they're not thinking about their life in general.
They just want to get rid of the turmoil that they're dealing with.
And what stopped me was my mother-in-law and my wife.
My wife called me first and she started talking to me as I'm going to the facility.
And then after my mother-in-law talks to me, I mean, after my wife talks to me, then mymother-in-law calls right after that.
(05:50):
And so by the time I'm done talking to them, I'm at the bottom of the hill where I'm safeand sound.
And that's when it clicked to me that, maybe I have an issue because I was so far gone tothe point where...
I just wanted to get rid of the pain.
I didn't want to think about anything else.
And plus my wife was pregnant at the time.
I wasn't even thinking about that.
I wasn't thinking about anything but to get rid of the pain.
(06:12):
that's where those two phone calls came into place and they saved my life.
Yeah, and two small phone calls, you know, it's just, kind of shows you that, you know, ifyou do see someone struggling, even just the smallest things can really make a huge
difference.
Yeah, the smallest things make a huge difference because we had a relationship and I hadbuilt that relationship with my mother-in-law and my wife since 2015 and it's crazy how
(06:39):
two years later they were the ones to help me get through that.
beautiful.
You know, and I think we often think, especially with athletes, that the pain comes on thefield.
It's like a physical pain, but there's so much more to that.
There's definitely more.
Do you feel like a lot of athletes are struggling with this, uh with this mental pain aswell?
(07:01):
Yeah, I do.
I get to talk to a lot of athletes on a regular basis.
Could be NFL, could be college.
Some guys are at the top of their game and the top of their sport.
But we tend to do things backwards.
We all always say physical, physical, physical.
But it's really the mental part that's what's going to separate you from the next personand want you to have that edge that you've always wanted.
(07:29):
So I think
that they struggle with being open and being honest and being vulnerable about where theyare.
Because if you look at football just in general, it's not a sport that you would like toshow a weakness.
So naturally you're not showing the weakness in real life either.
(07:51):
You take those same characteristics from the game and you apply it to life.
And it doesn't necessarily work that well in your life, right?
uh I think a lot of them, deal with the stresses of just coming out and saying, man, hey,I have an issue, but it takes someone like me or you or just someone talking about it for
(08:14):
them to understand like, you know what, you know, maybe I am going through that and maybeI do need to seek help for that.
And that's where the change comes.
Right, and you're a great role model for that.
You've stepped away from football and you're rebuilding your identity outside of footballnow.
Tell us a little bit about that and what you're doing now.
(08:35):
Yeah, so back in 2020 was obviously COVID was a hard year for everyone, right?
We was forced to look at ourselves in the mirror.
And that was kind of the year that I started the circle of it was right after I got doneplaying, uh right after I stepped away.
And because I seen other guys kind of going through the same things, right?
(08:57):
I seen them dealing with some of the same issues, had all this money, had everything thatthey could ever want.
but they were suffering in the inside.
So I created the Circle of M nonprofit organization where we unmasked the feelings thatcause anxiety and depression.
So all I did was start off with awareness.
Hey, I'm just going to talk about this.
(09:18):
You know, I know a lot of guys aren't talking about it, but I'm just going to talk aboutit.
I'm going to tell my story and see where it goes from there.
Then that led me to being on a lot of platforms, a lot of panels, speaking engagements forme to continue to speak what I was doing.
And then after that,
we started partnering with facilities, right, to help guys get into treatment.
(09:39):
Because I also went to a treatment facility in Colorado for 30 days that really helped me.
And so I started partnering with them, the Circle of Empires, partners with them to helpguys get the right treatment that they desire.
And so that's kind of where we are right now.
We partner and we can kind of still do this awareness piece that allows people to be free.
(10:03):
and they can, you know, the more that they speak, the more that they will free themselves.
And that's what we, that's our slogan.
That's what we continue to speak to these athletes.
And we try to help them get into treatment or we try to help them get to the rightresource.
So we're just a bridge.
That's all we are.
So whoever we're talking to, whoever we're partnering with, just like you guys, we try toget them the best resource as possible.
(10:28):
Yeah, but it's great that you can reach out.
It's just like we said, those little things that can make the huge difference right there.
It's great.
So you've collaborated with the APA Foundation on important conversations about athletewell-being.
What stood out to you from that experience and how can mental health leaders bettersupport athletes?
(10:48):
Yeah, so for me, like, especially being on a panel, I think what stood out to me, likewhat's the realness of it and how just being able to pull back the curtain and not be so
uptight about what mental health really is, right, to really understand that we are allhuman beings, right?
(11:12):
And we're, we want to be treated as such.
And I think that Raw,
explained that very well.
It was almost like I was talking to my brother, right?
And he made it very personable.
And so that's why I was intrigued by that.
And I'm like, wow, man, it makes me want to open up more just by you sitting next to me.
(11:37):
And so when we're...
Yeah.
And so I just...
We're on the same platform and we're talking to, know, maybe talking to the commanders orwe may be talking to some kids.
It doesn't matter.
I think making it relatable to whichever sector you're talking to.
I think that is what stood out to me and was just super important.
(12:04):
You know, you've written about how mental health is often stigmatized in the blackcommunity overall, and how seeking help can sometimes be seen as a sign of weakness.
Through your work with CircleVem, how are you helping to shift the narrative around thevulnerability and healing, especially for black men in sports?
(12:24):
Well, so we started, we actually have a grant.
We've been able to partner with the state of Maryland.
ah They're partnering with us to be able to programs for the youth.
So all we're doing is opening up the dialogue for them.
(12:45):
When they come in, we're just teaching them basic knowledge of what mental health is.
We bring out a feelings will.
and we help them articulate their feelings.
And a lot of these kids are from the inner city.
They may be from the inner city of Maryland.
So that's how we're shifting the narrative because now they come in as a lot of NFL guys,a lot of former athletes, people that they look up to.
(13:08):
They come in and we're having a round table discussion, but we're also helping themunderstand their emotions and being able to articulate that to their teachers, their
family.
whoever it may be.
So we're starting on a lower scale, basically, uh to be able to basically help themunderstand what it looks like, not on a clinical level, because we want them to be able to
(13:32):
get to that level.
I feel like as they grow, they'll be able to get to the clinical level.
But if they just start with just basic knowledge, then when they get to the clinicallevel, they can articulate that to them.
is kind of going on with them.
You know what I mean?
So that's kind of where we are now.
We're partnering with the state and they actually helped us with, you know, kind ofrounding a lot of this, African American community up to be able to teach them what they
(14:03):
need to be taught.
And knowing what you know now as someone who's struggled since you were a child yourself,what do youth and high school coaches need to understand to help their players prioritize
their mental wellness?
What do you think is the thing that they really need to be looking for?
And are they able to actually speak up and help?
(14:26):
I think for a coach, the most important thing is to know your players.
Get to know them more than who they are on the football field.
Right?
And then you know how to coach them as well.
You may have a player, like I was a player that could be yelled at, right?
Like my dad was more of a, you know, hardcore, like he would get on to me about certainstuff, but that would kind of get me going.
(14:52):
So you have some coaches like that, but some players,
they, you know, sometimes they don't do well with yelling or, you know, sometimes you haveto pull them to the side to talk to them.
So I would say for coaches, just know your player inside and out, because that's whatcoaching is about.
You want to get the best out of your player.
Well, how do you get the best out of them?
(15:14):
You know them inside and out.
So when it comes to mental health, they'll be able to come to you about a certain issue ora certain thing because you have spent time with them outside of
just the football field, right?
And when you see championships and when you hear about like the best teams and things ofthat nature, you always hear about how close they are, like what they did that year.
(15:38):
Maybe they were going out to eat every Thursday, to uh build team camaraderie.
So that's what I would say to coaches, just know your players, like really tap in withthem because you don't know what they're going through at home.
They're bringing this stuff to the football field or the basketball court or baseball,whatever it is, they're bringing all this stuff to the field as a way to get out, as a way
(16:05):
of an outlet, right?
But sometimes you have to pull back the curtain a little bit to be able to get more out ofthem so they can trust you.
And so that's what I would say to the coaches.
That's kind of what I do.
I'm a life coach.
I'm not an actual coach, but-
I've noticed, even with my coach from, he coaches with the Eagles, his name is ClintonHurd, he got the best out of us because he would, at the end of the year, he would bring
(16:35):
us all in the office and he would talk to us individually.
And we built a relationship with him individually.
So yeah, it was a great thing.
And I feel like he got the most out of us.
through that because he had a different relationship with all of us and kind of, you know,told us what our weaknesses were and some of our strengths, but then also, um also really,
(17:07):
you know, just uh was a friend to us too.
And you forget about that, that there's pressures coming from all around.
It's not just with the sport, but it's with the family and everything else too, sometimestoo.
Now you've said that healing is an ongoing process.
It's not a two week fix.
What does that look like in your day to day life now?
(17:28):
m
Yeah, healing is definitely an ongoing process.
It is something that you have to get accustomed to because you think that, I'm going to goto therapy and it's over, right?
I'm healed.
But life in general is not like that, right?
(17:49):
It's like a roller coaster.
You have your highs, you have your lows, oh but healing is a day-to-day battle.
Right?
You literally, often say, you know, I'm a Christian, you know, but I often say you have todie to yourself daily.
Right?
So there are things that happen in this world that ah that kind of gets you all offcourse, but you have your team around you.
(18:16):
Right?
You have your therapist, you have your life coach, you have the people that you canconfide in and talk to when those times arrive, when they come up.
And so that's why I say it's a journey because a part of the journey, that's where thegrowth happens.
A lot of times someone says, greatness lives on the other side of Well, healing lives onthe other side of that journey.
(18:43):
So as you continue to walk that path and that journey, you'll notice that healing startsto heal those empty wounds.
But are you all the way healed?
You could be, but you want to stay there, right?
Cause it's about the progress and the process.
(19:05):
yeah, healing is a journey.
And I always tell guys that, but I don't want them to feel like going into it, you'regoing to be healed and I don't have to do anything, you know?
You still have to work at it.
You still have to talk.
You still have to speak.
(19:26):
The more that I speak about these things, it frees me.
So if you kind of take that, put that in your toolbox for the rest of your life, thenyou'll know ways to heal yourself in a great way.
Yeah, it sounds like faith and spirituality play a little role here with you too.
And I think a lot of people, sometimes, that's maybe sometimes, some place that they'll gofirst, you know, if they're gonna go anywhere to get some help.
(19:54):
Yeah, when it comes to faith, I say that they can go hand in hand.
I don't push my faith on anyone because I want to meet them where they are, regardless ofwho they believe in.
But I always say that if you are uh a person of faith, it goes hand in hand.
If you go into the therapy room or if you go to get help, that's okay.
(20:18):
You can pray too, but you can also go get help as well.
There's nothing wrong with that.
You know, looking ahead, what kind of legacy do you hope to leave through your mentalhealth advocacy and work with athletes?
Yeah, I think the legacy that I want to leave is that, and this is kind of cliche andpeople hear it all the time, but I want vulnerability to be strength and not weakness,
(20:51):
right?
I know that, you know, as a man, it's hard for us to show a weakness.
We don't want people to see that, but it's natural.
in us.
It's a natural thing to understand that your weakness is something that you have to workon and that's okay.
(21:14):
But you know what it means?
It means that you're human and that you have something to look forward to.
If we all have it figured out, you wouldn't need the trials.
You wouldn't need coaches or people to help you along.
oh
So, you know, what I want to leave is an openness for guys to speak and not be afraid andfor them to understand that vulnerability is their true strength and not their weakness.
(21:48):
So yeah.
Well, Marcus Smith, the second.
Thank you so much for the work that you do and for joining us today.
We really do appreciate it.
Is there a website people can go to for Circle of M?
Yeah, so you can actually go to thecircleofthem.com.
You'll see all the stuff that we do there, like the programs and things of that nature.
(22:10):
You can also go to MarcusSmithii.com to see all of the stuff that I'm doing.
oh Yeah, man, I really appreciate you guys for having me.
This is amazing.
It gives me an opportunity to continue to speak.
Obviously, that's what we were talking about, but I appreciate it.
(22:31):
I really do.
Great to have you here.
And for our audience, can always find Mental Health Pathfinders on your favorite podcastplatforms.
Welcome to Mental Health Pathfinders.
I'm your host, Erin Connors.
Our guest today is Marcus Smith II, a former first round NFL draft pick who turned hispersonal mental health journey into a mission to transform how athletes talk about
healing.
Through his work with the Circle of M, with the APA Foundation and more, he's creatingspace for vulnerability, purpose and real change.
(00:28):
What a thrill to have you here today, Marcus.
This is such an important topic.
Man, thank you.
Thank you for having me again.
This is obviously an amazing topic.
This is something that, especially as athletes want to continue to push the message.
So glad to be here.
It's an amazing day to day.
(00:50):
So thank you.
absolutely.
And you've had a remarkable evolution from elite athlete to mental health advocate.
Let's talk about some of the key moments that kind of shape that path and who you aretoday.
Yeah, so I think for me, one of the key moments was first, when I was eight, I had myfirst anxiety attack, but I didn't realize that that was a thing back then.
(01:18):
I didn't really realize it until I actually got into therapy going into my fifth year inthe league.
So when you talk about mental health, you're talking about looking at a lot of the traumasand the things that we deal with as a child.
That was the first thing that happened.
I had an anxiety attack and then my parents, nor my grandparents kind of knew what it wasand we kind of just swept it under the rug.
(01:43):
And so that led me to having anxiety and depression as I was playing sports.
So sports ended up being my band-aid, if you will.
It ended up being my band-aid and I was able to get through all the way to the NFL until Ireally couldn't, uh you know, deal with the pain anymore.
Let's go back to college.
(02:03):
You you made a major transition switching from quarterback to linebacker.
Wow.
And you still rose to an ACC Defensive Player of the Year.
How did you manage to change, you know, manage change under pressure like that?
And did it teach you about adapting to these like intense, high visibility environments?
Yeah, it was tough.
(02:23):
It was tough trying to switch to a position that I'd never played before.
I never played the position.
I played quarterback my whole entire life.
Right.
So I'm throwing the rock.
I'm thinking that, hey, maybe I'm going to be Tim Tebow or maybe I'm going to be a Heismanwinner.
That's what I was thinking going into college.
And so if you think about anxiety, anxiety kind of played with me when I was in college aswell because of the change.
(02:49):
Right.
And so I'm going over there and now I'm going up against 300 pounds.
liming every day and I'm like 230 pounds.
So if you can think of a huge guy and now I'm going up against them, those guys used to beblocking for me.
Now I'm going up against them every day.
So the switch came when my coach, his name is Clinton Hurt.
(03:10):
He's also the Divas Align coach for the Philadelphia Eagles.
Now he just won the Superbowl.
He was my coach in college and he kind of helped me get through
those moments when I would be having anxiety attacks in my sleep, but also having anxietyattacks while I was in the facility because it was an unknown thing.
(03:31):
And we all know that anxiety is kind of, you know, it's kind of unknown, right?
Those are the things that you're thinking about.
And so, ah yeah, as I was pushing forward through college, it was a tough experience, butI was able to push through it enough for me to
um get through those tough moments to kind of be where I am today.
(03:55):
I saw on one of your Instagram posts that you were really struggling at one point and thenyou got two different phone calls that almost saved your life.
Talk a little bit about that.
That's really interesting.
Yeah, so when I was in Seattle, I just signed a one year deal with the Seattle Seahawks,Pete Carroll, my coach, obviously that I just talked about who's coach with the Eagles now
(04:19):
he was in Seattle.
So my career was going on the up and up.
It was going in the right direction.
I was going into year five in the NFL, but I hadn't yet addressed the anxiety anddepression issues that I had been facing since I was eight.
And so if you could look at on the outside, everything is going.
correctly, but I was dying on the inside because I had yet to address those things.
(04:42):
And so that's what those phone calls where I had got to a point where I was just tired ofbeing in pain.
And I thought that I should be happier than what I was.
And I was like, why am I so sad all the time?
Why is nothing going the right way for me mentally?
And so as I'm going through that process, I started to
(05:05):
drive to the facility and I did try to commit suicide.
And that's just one of the, the realest way I could say it.
I tried to do it twice because it wasn't thinking of me ending my life.
It was more so thinking of me ending the pain.
And a lot of people who are going through pain, that's all they want to do.
(05:27):
They don't, they're not thinking about their life in general.
They just want to get rid of the turmoil that they're dealing with.
And what stopped me was my mother-in-law and my wife.
My wife called me first and she started talking to me as I'm going to the facility.
And then after my mother-in-law talks to me, I mean, after my wife talks to me, then mymother-in-law calls right after that.
(05:50):
And so by the time I'm done talking to them, I'm at the bottom of the hill where I'm safeand sound.
And that's when it clicked to me that, maybe I have an issue because I was so far gone tothe point where...
I just wanted to get rid of the pain.
I didn't want to think about anything else.
And plus my wife was pregnant at the time.
I wasn't even thinking about that.
I wasn't thinking about anything but to get rid of the pain.
(06:12):
that's where those two phone calls came into place and they saved my life.
Yeah, and two small phone calls, you know, it's just, kind of shows you that, you know, ifyou do see someone struggling, even just the smallest things can really make a huge
difference.
Yeah, the smallest things make a huge difference because we had a relationship and I hadbuilt that relationship with my mother-in-law and my wife since 2015 and it's crazy how
(06:39):
two years later they were the ones to help me get through that.
beautiful.
You know, and I think we often think, especially with athletes, that the pain comes on thefield.
It's like a physical pain, but there's so much more to that.
There's definitely more.
Do you feel like a lot of athletes are struggling with this, uh with this mental pain aswell?
(07:01):
Yeah, I do.
I get to talk to a lot of athletes on a regular basis.
Could be NFL, could be college.
Some guys are at the top of their game and the top of their sport.
But we tend to do things backwards.
We all always say physical, physical, physical.
But it's really the mental part that's what's going to separate you from the next personand want you to have that edge that you've always wanted.
(07:29):
So I think
that they struggle with being open and being honest and being vulnerable about where theyare.
Because if you look at football just in general, it's not a sport that you would like toshow a weakness.
So naturally you're not showing the weakness in real life either.
(07:51):
You take those same characteristics from the game and you apply it to life.
And it doesn't necessarily work that well in your life, right?
uh I think a lot of them, deal with the stresses of just coming out and saying, man, hey,I have an issue, but it takes someone like me or you or just someone talking about it for
(08:14):
them to understand like, you know what, you know, maybe I am going through that and maybeI do need to seek help for that.
And that's where the change comes.
Right, and you're a great role model for that.
You've stepped away from football and you're rebuilding your identity outside of footballnow.
Tell us a little bit about that and what you're doing now.
(08:35):
Yeah, so back in 2020 was obviously COVID was a hard year for everyone, right?
We was forced to look at ourselves in the mirror.
And that was kind of the year that I started the circle of it was right after I got doneplaying, uh right after I stepped away.
And because I seen other guys kind of going through the same things, right?
(08:57):
I seen them dealing with some of the same issues, had all this money, had everything thatthey could ever want.
but they were suffering in the inside.
So I created the Circle of M nonprofit organization where we unmasked the feelings thatcause anxiety and depression.
So all I did was start off with awareness.
Hey, I'm just going to talk about this.
(09:18):
You know, I know a lot of guys aren't talking about it, but I'm just going to talk aboutit.
I'm going to tell my story and see where it goes from there.
Then that led me to being on a lot of platforms, a lot of panels, speaking engagements forme to continue to speak what I was doing.
And then after that,
we started partnering with facilities, right, to help guys get into treatment.
(09:39):
Because I also went to a treatment facility in Colorado for 30 days that really helped me.
And so I started partnering with them, the Circle of Empires, partners with them to helpguys get the right treatment that they desire.
And so that's kind of where we are right now.
We partner and we can kind of still do this awareness piece that allows people to be free.
(10:03):
and they can, you know, the more that they speak, the more that they will free themselves.
And that's what we, that's our slogan.
That's what we continue to speak to these athletes.
And we try to help them get into treatment or we try to help them get to the rightresource.
So we're just a bridge.
That's all we are.
So whoever we're talking to, whoever we're partnering with, just like you guys, we try toget them the best resource as possible.
(10:28):
Yeah, but it's great that you can reach out.
It's just like we said, those little things that can make the huge difference right there.
It's great.
So you've collaborated with the APA Foundation on important conversations about athletewell-being.
What stood out to you from that experience and how can mental health leaders bettersupport athletes?
(10:48):
Yeah, so for me, like, especially being on a panel, I think what stood out to me, likewhat's the realness of it and how just being able to pull back the curtain and not be so
uptight about what mental health really is, right, to really understand that we are allhuman beings, right?
(11:12):
And we're, we want to be treated as such.
And I think that Raw,
explained that very well.
It was almost like I was talking to my brother, right?
And he made it very personable.
And so that's why I was intrigued by that.
And I'm like, wow, man, it makes me want to open up more just by you sitting next to me.
(11:37):
And so when we're...
Yeah.
And so I just...
We're on the same platform and we're talking to, know, maybe talking to the commanders orwe may be talking to some kids.
It doesn't matter.
I think making it relatable to whichever sector you're talking to.
I think that is what stood out to me and was just super important.
(12:04):
You know, you've written about how mental health is often stigmatized in the blackcommunity overall, and how seeking help can sometimes be seen as a sign of weakness.
Through your work with CircleVem, how are you helping to shift the narrative around thevulnerability and healing, especially for black men in sports?
(12:24):
Well, so we started, we actually have a grant.
We've been able to partner with the state of Maryland.
ah They're partnering with us to be able to programs for the youth.
So all we're doing is opening up the dialogue for them.
(12:45):
When they come in, we're just teaching them basic knowledge of what mental health is.
We bring out a feelings will.
and we help them articulate their feelings.
And a lot of these kids are from the inner city.
They may be from the inner city of Maryland.
So that's how we're shifting the narrative because now they come in as a lot of NFL guys,a lot of former athletes, people that they look up to.
(13:08):
They come in and we're having a round table discussion, but we're also helping themunderstand their emotions and being able to articulate that to their teachers, their
family.
whoever it may be.
So we're starting on a lower scale, basically, uh to be able to basically help themunderstand what it looks like, not on a clinical level, because we want them to be able to
(13:32):
get to that level.
I feel like as they grow, they'll be able to get to the clinical level.
But if they just start with just basic knowledge, then when they get to the clinicallevel, they can articulate that to them.
is kind of going on with them.
You know what I mean?
So that's kind of where we are now.
We're partnering with the state and they actually helped us with, you know, kind ofrounding a lot of this, African American community up to be able to teach them what they
(14:03):
need to be taught.
And knowing what you know now as someone who's struggled since you were a child yourself,what do youth and high school coaches need to understand to help their players prioritize
their mental wellness?
What do you think is the thing that they really need to be looking for?
And are they able to actually speak up and help?
(14:26):
I think for a coach, the most important thing is to know your players.
Get to know them more than who they are on the football field.
Right?
And then you know how to coach them as well.
You may have a player, like I was a player that could be yelled at, right?
Like my dad was more of a, you know, hardcore, like he would get on to me about certainstuff, but that would kind of get me going.
(14:52):
So you have some coaches like that, but some players,
they, you know, sometimes they don't do well with yelling or, you know, sometimes you haveto pull them to the side to talk to them.
So I would say for coaches, just know your player inside and out, because that's whatcoaching is about.
You want to get the best out of your player.
Well, how do you get the best out of them?
(15:14):
You know them inside and out.
So when it comes to mental health, they'll be able to come to you about a certain issue ora certain thing because you have spent time with them outside of
just the football field, right?
And when you see championships and when you hear about like the best teams and things ofthat nature, you always hear about how close they are, like what they did that year.
(15:38):
Maybe they were going out to eat every Thursday, to uh build team camaraderie.
So that's what I would say to coaches, just know your players, like really tap in withthem because you don't know what they're going through at home.
They're bringing this stuff to the football field or the basketball court or baseball,whatever it is, they're bringing all this stuff to the field as a way to get out, as a way
(16:05):
of an outlet, right?
But sometimes you have to pull back the curtain a little bit to be able to get more out ofthem so they can trust you.
And so that's what I would say to the coaches.
That's kind of what I do.
I'm a life coach.
I'm not an actual coach, but-
I've noticed, even with my coach from, he coaches with the Eagles, his name is ClintonHurd, he got the best out of us because he would, at the end of the year, he would bring
(16:35):
us all in the office and he would talk to us individually.
And we built a relationship with him individually.
So yeah, it was a great thing.
And I feel like he got the most out of us.
through that because he had a different relationship with all of us and kind of, you know,told us what our weaknesses were and some of our strengths, but then also, um also really,
(17:07):
you know, just uh was a friend to us too.
And you forget about that, that there's pressures coming from all around.
It's not just with the sport, but it's with the family and everything else too, sometimestoo.
Now you've said that healing is an ongoing process.
It's not a two week fix.
What does that look like in your day to day life now?
(17:28):
m
Yeah, healing is definitely an ongoing process.
It is something that you have to get accustomed to because you think that, I'm going to goto therapy and it's over, right?
I'm healed.
But life in general is not like that, right?
(17:49):
It's like a roller coaster.
You have your highs, you have your lows, oh but healing is a day-to-day battle.
Right?
You literally, often say, you know, I'm a Christian, you know, but I often say you have todie to yourself daily.
Right?
So there are things that happen in this world that ah that kind of gets you all offcourse, but you have your team around you.
(18:16):
Right?
You have your therapist, you have your life coach, you have the people that you canconfide in and talk to when those times arrive, when they come up.
And so that's why I say it's a journey because a part of the journey, that's where thegrowth happens.
A lot of times someone says, greatness lives on the other side of Well, healing lives onthe other side of that journey.
(18:43):
So as you continue to walk that path and that journey, you'll notice that healing startsto heal those empty wounds.
But are you all the way healed?
You could be, but you want to stay there, right?
Cause it's about the progress and the process.
(19:05):
yeah, healing is a journey.
And I always tell guys that, but I don't want them to feel like going into it, you'regoing to be healed and I don't have to do anything, you know?
You still have to work at it.
You still have to talk.
You still have to speak.
(19:26):
The more that I speak about these things, it frees me.
So if you kind of take that, put that in your toolbox for the rest of your life, thenyou'll know ways to heal yourself in a great way.
Yeah, it sounds like faith and spirituality play a little role here with you too.
And I think a lot of people, sometimes, that's maybe sometimes, some place that they'll gofirst, you know, if they're gonna go anywhere to get some help.
(19:54):
Yeah, when it comes to faith, I say that they can go hand in hand.
I don't push my faith on anyone because I want to meet them where they are, regardless ofwho they believe in.
But I always say that if you are uh a person of faith, it goes hand in hand.
If you go into the therapy room or if you go to get help, that's okay.
(20:18):
You can pray too, but you can also go get help as well.
There's nothing wrong with that.
You know, looking ahead, what kind of legacy do you hope to leave through your mentalhealth advocacy and work with athletes?
Yeah, I think the legacy that I want to leave is that, and this is kind of cliche andpeople hear it all the time, but I want vulnerability to be strength and not weakness,
(20:51):
right?
I know that, you know, as a man, it's hard for us to show a weakness.
We don't want people to see that, but it's natural.
in us.
It's a natural thing to understand that your weakness is something that you have to workon and that's okay.
(21:14):
But you know what it means?
It means that you're human and that you have something to look forward to.
If we all have it figured out, you wouldn't need the trials.
You wouldn't need coaches or people to help you along.
oh
So, you know, what I want to leave is an openness for guys to speak and not be afraid andfor them to understand that vulnerability is their true strength and not their weakness.
(21:48):
So yeah.
Well, Marcus Smith, the second.
Thank you so much for the work that you do and for joining us today.
We really do appreciate it.
Is there a website people can go to for Circle of M?
Yeah, so you can actually go to thecircleofthem.com.
You'll see all the stuff that we do there, like the programs and things of that nature.
(22:10):
You can also go to MarcusSmithii.com to see all of the stuff that I'm doing.
oh Yeah, man, I really appreciate you guys for having me.
This is amazing.
It gives me an opportunity to continue to speak.
Obviously, that's what we were talking about, but I appreciate it.
(22:31):
I really do.
Great to have you here.
And for our audience, can always find Mental Health Pathfinders on your favorite podcastplatforms.
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