October 22, 2025 • 44 mins
Although a lot of medieval history is murky, the whys and wherefores – not to mention the timeline – of the Hundred Years’ War are firmly nailed down. Or are they? This week, Danièle speaks with Michael Livingston about why the Hundred Years’ War should actually be called the Two Hundred Years’ War, what actually touched off the conflict, and why we should question everything.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi everyone, and welcome to episode three hundred and twelve
of The Medieval Podcast. I'm your host, Danielle Sebowski. If
you were to ask random people on the street to
name one event that happened in the Middle Ages, it
(00:24):
wouldn't be long before someone mentioned the Hundred Years War,
or at least one of its legendary battles. Although a
lot of medieval history is murky, the whys and wherefores
not to mention the timeline of the Hundred Years War
are firmly nailed down, or are they? This week I
spoke with doctor Michael Livingstone about why the Hundred Years
(00:45):
War should actually be called the two hundred Years War.
He's a prolific author of both scholarly works and fictional works,
and a Citadel Distinguished Professor at the Citadel, and I
never know if I should call him doctor, professor or colonel,
so I just call him Mike. You may know him
from his books Agincore, Battle of the Scarred King and
Cracy Battle of Five Kings, or his documentaries on History Hit,
(01:09):
including his new series on Rebels podcast junkies will know
him from Bowen Blade, which he co hosts with Kelly
de freeze or from past episodes of this podcast. One
of Mike's several new books, and the one we'll be
discussing today is Bloody Crowns, a New History of the
One Hundred Years War. Our conversation on what Michael thinks
(01:30):
actually touched off the conflict when it ended, and why
we should question everything is coming up right after this. Well,
welcome back, Michael. It's so great to see you. It's
been years, so this is just a street for me
to see you again.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Welcome back, Thank.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
You for having me. Very pleased to be here. But yeah,
it's been a couple years since we caught up.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, yeah, so it's about time.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Okay, So you've written this big book on what you're
now calling the two hundred years were you have a
rep in our field for redefining things, battlefield sites, all that.
So I need to ask you this question. Do you
think you're the biggest trouble maker in medieval studies today?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
No? No? Yeah, Well look, so here's the thing. I
don't mean to stir things up like that's not you know,
it's not like a wake up in the morning and like, well,
who's cheerios? Can I like meddle with today. But like,
if you're going to go to the trouble of writing
a book, you should have something new to say. So
(02:29):
I've been sometimes accused of like, well, you just want
to relocate all the battles.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
And there's been plenty of battles that I've been asked
to study and to examine, and you're like, no, that's
where it happened. I don't write that. Like what even
is that? You know, Like, oh, that thing we thought
was true is true. That's not a book. So yeah,
it's the ones where you look at it and you say, yeah,
it needs to be fixed, it needs to be changed.
That's what I tend to write. And so so yeah,
(02:56):
I guess I have a reputation.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Of that is that.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Maybe in my own brain. No, I just had to
tease you.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I just had to teach you about it, because this
is something that you have done before, is reevaluate things
from the beginning. And actually I think this is a
responsible thing to do. One of the things that people
may or may not know about you is you're really
dedicated to going back to original sources rather than going
from translations, and this type of work is what leads
you in new directions, and so I actually really respect
(03:24):
what you do, but I have to give you trouble about.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
It because we've known each other a long time.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah, and I'll take that.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
I'll take that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
It is what kind of drew me to even my
career path, you know, in the degrees that I got
and the study I did was all to enable that
getting to the primary source, as I mean, to the
point of like can I read them? I need to
be able to read the original manuscript, not just the
original language. I need to have that kind of raw
data to really think anew and think fresh on things.
(03:53):
So yeah, I appreciate that, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, yeah, my pleasure. Okay, so let's get into this.
So this book is looking at the Hundred Years War again,
and you're suggesting that maybe it's two hundred years about
twelve ninety two to fourteen ninety two. But let's start
with what we quote unquote already know what is the
traditional starting point for the Hundred Years War.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Traditional you tend to start it in the year thirteen
thirty seven and then it ends in fourteen fifty three,
which is one hundred and sixteen years. The label one
hundred Years War I mean, which is a lot easier
to say than one hundred and sixteen, So I mean,
that's good. That's a label that doesn't even exist until
eighteen twenty three, so that's three hundred and seventy years
(04:40):
after the war supposedly concludes. Somebody comes up with this
title and everybody's just kind of gone with it and
then started, like I think, kind of making historical arguments
based on that periodization, and I don't know that that's
really a clever thing to do. I mean, I think
it's actually worthwhile to say, do those dates make sense?
(05:05):
And if they don't, what does make sense? And what
does that tell us about how things developed? The thirteen
thirty seven date is really about Edward the third being
sort of told that he can no longer be in
charge of Gascony, of Aquitane, Gascony, whatever you want to
call it. That's forfeit to the French crown because he
(05:26):
was he was supposed to pay homage as essentially a
vassal of the King of France. And fourteen fifty three
is the Battle Castillon, so you know, have to battle
Castillon the English or are kind of kicked out more
or less of Gascony, it's pretty much yet So all right,
I guess this is like a war sort of about
(05:46):
the status of Gascony. I guess that's what we're going
to put that together as. But that's not when that
struggle ended or began, honestly. So, you know, when I
started thinking about this book, pretty quickly, that problem presents itself,
you know, like, well, where do you start this story
and what even is this story? And that's kind of
what led me to going out on a limb and saying, well,
(06:08):
the dates are wrong, and we need to redefine the
dates and therefore redefine the war.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Right, Well, maybe we should go back even further, because
when we're talking about Gascony, we're talking about Aquitaine. Why
is there beef over this to begin with? How did
this become something a continental possession of the English in
the first place? Maybe we should make that clear before
we go new further.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
So the English had holdings on the continent back to
ten sixty six, right, you know, when the conqueror comes
over and becomes King of England, he's still the Duke
of Normandy in France, So in those French holdings, he's
actually underneath the French king. So from as far back
as ten sixty six you've got a problem where a
King of England is king in his own realm, but
(06:53):
part of his lands he's subject to another king that's
really just untenable. And from ten sixty six on you've
got various phases of this struggle. There is an earlier
one hundred Years War, as it were, which is all
about Henry and Eleanor Vaquitaine and all that goodness, which
(07:14):
is an absolutely amazing period, as you well know, absolutely
amazing period that expands greatly the English lands in France,
the Angevin Empire, it's often called because it brings in
Eleanor Raquitaine's enormous holdings in France. You know, So at
a certain point there the English lands in France are
(07:38):
like probably larger than the lands of the King of
France and France, and that that's a problem for the
French king. You don't like that. So you have a
kind of long struggle that unfolds from that. That's like
my whole introduction. It's a really long introduction to the book,
that is, start talking about the wars before the war
and all of this struggle that ends up with the
Treaty of Paris, which theoretic solved all the problems. Theoretically
(08:02):
solved all the problems, and it solved it all by
kind of codifying what the arrangement was. As long as
everyone follows the rules, everybody's gonna be fine. But like
not everybody wanted to follow the rules because one of
those problems. One of the rules is that, in a
medieval sense, you have to pay homage to your lord.
And if the French king said you have to pay
(08:25):
homage for your lands in France, you had to do
it like that's that was, that was the deal. And
some kings didn't want to do that. Yeah, some some
kings didn't. Really the French king was like, yeah, I
get it, and so you don't have to really do it.
But there were some hot heads and really the tur
In Years War is sort of that on a very
(08:46):
grand scale over generations. How you're going to make this work?
I mean, in the end, of course, you can't make
it work. I mean that's you know that this is
never going to work. It's just how is it? How
are we going to get out of the situation? And
it's extremely bloody two hundred year of trying to get
out in the situation is what it is.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Okay, So there is a moment where everyone's like, there
is a status quo. There's a bunch of pieces of
what used to be like Charlemagne's empire, but it is
now under the control of England, under the control the Unbrilla,
control of the King of France. Then you really pin
the beginning of this where if we're calling it a
two hundred years war, you pin the beginning of this
(09:23):
on someone who I am now very familiar with, and
that is Philip the Fair. He shoulders a lot of
blame for a lot of things. Tell us what happens,
Enter Philip the Fair, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Philip, and amazing guy.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
What a guy?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
What a guy? What a guy. I wouldn't want to
be anywhere near him, But what a guy? What a
you know, somebody who made a mark in history, that's
for sure.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
That's for sure.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yes, that's for sure. So I pinned the start to
twelve ninety two, and in particular to a murder that
most people don't know about, a murder of an unnamed
We don't know the guy's name, we're not sure where
he was from. But a murder takes place on a
secluded island out in the Atlantic. That causes a sort
(10:07):
of tit for tat repercussions, you know, like, oh, you know,
you killed somebody, We're going to kill somebody. You killed somebody,
We're gonna kill somebody. And it escalates very very quickly.
It's often called a pirate war because the people who
are doing this, the kings of England and France. Is
Edward the first at this point and Philipe are saying like,
(10:29):
we have nothing to do with it. Clearly, popularly, the
chroniclers they don't believe that. They're like the English chroniclers
are like Philip is behind all this. The French writers
are like Edward's behind all this. So I mean, I
don't think either man really is, but there's clearly a
sense that they could be, and everybody is willing to
believe that. And Philippe takes this moment to say, we're
(10:54):
kicking the English out. That's it, We're done, get them out,
and Edward is really caught off foot by this, and
ultimately they're able to re establish the status quo. But
this is coming at a very difficult time. I mean,
you know, you got William Wallace is rising up in
twelve ninety seven in Scotland, so Edward's got that to
(11:17):
deal with up there. Edward is trying to use the
low countries, you know, Flanders to try and get some
leverage over the French, and Phelipe being Philip, is trying
to sort of like Lepards at right back and take
more control because Philip is very interested in like centralizing,
you know, control within the realm. For a good reason,
(11:37):
He's interested in doing that. So you have these extremely
hard headed leaders. Edward the Verst is not like a
softy I don't know if anybody needs that pointed out,
like Ede the first like what a cuddle bug. Edward
is not, and Phelipe is one hundred percent not. And
(11:59):
they both are recognize, you know, we have an opportunity
to settle this and they want to settle it on
their terms, of course, and that's what really kind of
launches us into this two hundred years War because they
have Planet of Seeds and made the first steps of
we're not going to be okay with this arrangement that
(12:20):
the Treaty of Paris in a couple decades earlier, coming
out of the Engine Empire like the Treaty of Paris
had set these terms were not okay with it, and
in particular the French were not okay with it. They
weren't going to be happy until they had re established
in their mind ancestral France. It's the memory of Charlemagne
and Clovis. This is what France is supposed to be.
(12:42):
And I mean the English got to go, not just
be here and be convinced to bow the knee like no,
like you out, and they're not going to really rest
until that happens.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I think that Philip would have taken any excuse to
go for a gascony. The Pirate war just seems to
be a good one, so he's like, this is my time.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
That goes babby. But anyway, well, yeah, so then there
are children married.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
We got Edward the second Isabella of Friends, and then
they have the king who is going to be Edward
the third right, So this is bringing us into the
thirteen thirties, so that when we would come to thirteen
thirty seven.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
The French king is like, I'm going to take gasc
Any from you.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
But then there is a discussion about the actual Crown
of Friends.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
So tell us how this.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Goes, yeah, this never should have happened. Yes, never should
have happened. When when the King of France decides to
marry his daughter to the future King of England, she's
got older brothers and they're all young enough that nobody
has it in the cards that this could possibly screw
up the passing on to the crown. But it actually
(13:57):
turns out all of her older brothers bite it, and
they bite it pretty young, and they bite it without
a male heir. There are female airs, but there are
no male heirs. And foro England even gets involved, France
had already started playing this game of saying that that
(14:17):
women could not inherit the throne. So they'd done that
to disinherit some kids, which was a jerk move, but
whatever they did that the salak so called Salic law,
having established that, now they're like out of airs, like
they got well we'll shoot. And so the question of
what what happens now, because Isabella would be the next one,
(14:37):
like she's the next one up, and well that's not
gonna happen because she's a woman and she's the Queen
of England. That's not gonna happen. So who's gonna be
our next male heir. And at that point it's it's debatable.
There's at least three people, three dudes who can make
this claim. One is Edward the Third. He's like, I
am the directors centive, director, center director, let's straight up,
(15:00):
I'm good to go, and yeah, claim's coming through my
mom and she's one, but she's not getting the plans
I am, so like checks out. Weirdly, the French nobility
is not super keen on the King of France now
being the King of England. They're like, that's we're pretty
sure that's not going to work. There's also the King
of Navarre, Charles the Bad actually has a total legitimate
(15:22):
claim and he tries to push it. There's a good
reason he's known as Charles the Bad to historians. That's
nobody's seriously keen on him being it. What they actually
I'm doing is they go back a generation and then
move sideways to a Cadet line, and that's how we
get Felipe the sixth. And actually it's not like Edward
(15:43):
the Third cries foul. He doesn't. It's like, well, okay,
that's legit. He just wants what he wants and when
he starts not getting what he wants and starts needing
his allies in the Low countries and in Flanders and
part of the part of the world today's Belgium and Netherlands.
When he's got allies in the Low countries who want
(16:06):
to help him because he's trying to defend the wool
trade among other things, which is their riches are based on.
But they can't go against their oaths of fealty to
the King of France. Well here's an idea. How about
if I Edward claimed to be the king of France,
you'd be holding true to your oaths by helping me.
(16:29):
And I do have a claim. I mean I haven't
pushed it yet, but I do have a claim. So
this is just like political convenience. It becomes much bigger
than that because the English start feeling like, hey, really,
actually this I like this idea, we should be king,
And especially after the Battle of Creci, where Edward has
so thoroughly defeated fully, this becomes a far more kind
(16:51):
of legitimate or legitimized. I suppose it was always legitimate,
A legitimized claim that the English king is the proper
king of France through Edward, through his mother. So yeah,
it's a weirdly complicated thing. When I learned it as
a kid, it wasn't complicated.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
That's so true about like everything medieval though, right, You're like.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Oh, and then like this guy claimed the throne, you know,
well yeah, but also you know, no, like it was
it was economic, It was all these sort of other
things that were happening. And again it's it's not like
he immediately made that claim. He only made that claim
when it was like otherwise needed to make that claim.
And of course what happens, this massive, massive conflict isn't
(17:36):
what he intended. But I mean, in his lifetime it
went very well for a bit and then went very
badly and then under his airs the same kind of thing.
So the whole idea that the hundred years wore, as
it's normally defined, is about the crown of France. He
is one of those things that kind of fell by
the wayside to me, because well, the conflict wasn't about that.
(18:00):
That was a move, that was a thing that happens
as part of the conflict, but it wasn't about that,
not in the beginning and not in the end. Because
if you say well, the hundreds of War was about
the English claim to the throne of France, and it
ends in fourteen fifty three. No, it didn't. Nothing ended.
In fourteen fifty a battle was lost, but nobody declared
anything ended. The English continued technically to claim the throne
(18:22):
of France until George the Third the French Revolution had happened.
Here is no crown of France, and the English was
still like waity wait, yeah, Like so come on, it's.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Not about that.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
This is a war about France defining itself, defining its borders,
and defining its own authority within those borders, which is,
you know, not something most people have thought about. And
I think it, I hope is kind of an advantage
that I'm I'm an American. I don't have a dog
in this fight. You know, I'm not trying to towe
(18:55):
an English line or a French line. I'm just calling
balls and strikes as are coming in.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
I can.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, on the other side of the border here, I'm
like English and French all relled into one. So you know,
it's hard to pick a dog in this fight as
a Canadian as well, makes it easy for me.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Right or easy?
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Easy?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Easy? Right?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
So this begs the question why did you pick the
endpoint that you picked? So maybe what's the traditional endpoint?
And then why do people say this is the traditional endpoint?
And then why did you pick fourteen ninety two if
there's still discussion happening later.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah, so fourteen fifty three is the usual, and that's
the Battle of Castillon, which is kind of like the
last military gasp of the English in Gascony. Depending on
your exact date of the year, it could also be
the expulsion of the English administrators from Bordeaux, but like
that year, it is just like that's kind of like
(19:51):
things get kicked out of Gascony, and that has some
sensibility to it. If this is a war about control
of Gascony and that alone, then maybe that kind of works.
Your beginning date wouldn't work, That traditional beginning date wouldn't work,
but the end date, I guess that could end that.
The problem with stopping it there though, is again nothing
(20:12):
has been resolved. When the English side has said, oh well,
forget it, we're done, and nobody on the French side
is thinking, oh well it's finished. I mean, this is
an undeclared war. There was no declaration of war. This
is just something that metastizes and the ending is similarly undefined,
because there wasn't the thing in the beginning, so like
(20:32):
what ends it? Where you ended? For my part, I
felt like it was important if I'm going to structure
this around France and control of itself, then well when
is that really done? And when that is really done
is you've got Brittany brought into the fold kind of
formally and finally done Normandy, Gascony, Aquitain. When do we
(20:57):
get that sort of entity more or less cohesive and
the crown cohesive? And then the French monarchy moved into
Now this as a medievalist, I would say modern concept
because you know, after the printing press, everything's journalism. So
when you get that move into this kind of new
(21:19):
phase of the French monarchy and fourteen ninety two is
smack dab. You know, when you look at the treaties
and all that, and you get the treaty with England
that is basically, yeah, we agree, the English agree, You've
got all this stuff and we're not fighting for it.
We're not going to fight you in Brittany, We're not
(21:40):
going to fight you. You know when that is done.
It's done. Yeah. The English still have a sort of
you know, our coat of arms is still quartered and
all that stuff, but nobody's seriously making a play for it.
At the end of the book actually introduced my conclusion
with the field of the Cloth of Gold and Henry
the a meeting with the French king, and when they're
(22:03):
being introduced, Harold says, king of England and France, and
Henry laughs about it. You know, it's like, don't worry, man,
that's like, that's just some something that we say. Don't worry.
You know, it's not happening. It means nothing, is what
he says. It means nothing. So it's done. The war
is done. So yeah, I felt like fourteen ninety two
(22:23):
was the most sensible cut off given what I was
seeing held it together in the first place. I also
felt how perfect that was.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
To end it.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
This Columbus Sales of the Ocean Blue in fourteen ninety two,
and that's where this struggle goes, right. England and France
are both defined in what they are and what are
they going to be now?
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Right then?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
And then here they come to our shores and this
is where.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
They fight it.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
And yeah, in Canada. I mean to some degree it's
still happening. It's still happening. So the imperial movement in
colonial and all that, I mean, I think that grows
straight out of this.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
You know, England is not in France anymore. Where's it
going to be. It's got to go somewhere else, and
France is going to counter those claims wherever they're found.
So I think for a lot of reasons, it made
sense to to kind of lock it down there, and
I tried to be as transparent as I could be
on why that is.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, well, I mean, if you're going to make a
big claim, you got to lay out the evidence, which
is something that you do. And it's making me remember
when we're talking about sort of moving into the early
modern period that even today the license fleets from Quebec,
say Jimusuvian, which means I remember, it's just like these things,
they're never over, they're never completely done.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It goes way way way back.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, people don't like up. Yeah, fourteen ninety two it's
called the piece of a top, which is signed on
the third of November, and that's like the English shart
are just like we're done, We're not going to do
anything more on the continent, not like this. They still
hold a couple of Channel islands and things like that,
and the struggle over Calais, of course is going to
is going to move forward, but it's not these territorial
(24:07):
claims that that have been pushed. All of that's just done.
So I thought it paid sense to do it that way.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, well, I mean, so much of this is about
shifting identities, and when you decide that like this is England,
this is Friends, we are English, we are French, and
this changes from the.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Place that you're at.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
The year that we're talking about is just in constant flux.
And so I've been talking with our friend Dan Jones
about Charles the sixth reign and he's he was talking
about Henry the Fifth at one point and says, Friends
is unwinnable unless you have more of the French on
your side. If you just come from just England, you're
never going to win it. And in the end, in
(24:47):
the end, they sort of re established themselves in a
way that they had well before any of this started.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
That's absolutely right. I mean, you know, Henry the fifth
gets close to pulling it off.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah, ish you.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Know, Bedford did his best, and Bedford would have been
like a great King of England. But I don't think
Henry could have actually done it. I mean I really don't.
I think Henry Dan would probably get mad at me
for saying this. You know, Henry extraordinary figure, but also
really lucky to die when he did, in the sense
(25:22):
that that enabled his the myth of him to be
kind of put in stone at this moment, so that
he didn't have to oversee what probably would have been
a gradual pullback, so that people could just keep imagining
that he was this unbeatable guy. Well, you know, dying
when you're unbeaten is a good way to accomplish that.
(25:43):
So yeah, it never really could have worked. And yeah,
spoiler alert, France wins. Doesn't matter how you define this thing.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
What's funny is you actually kind of boldly say in
your book, like France arted this and they do finish it,
but they started it, which is both claim, which is
something I think you're going to have lots of arguments
over beer over many years after this book.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
But they do finish it.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah, yeah, they finish it, and they finish it in
a hurry. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, France, what
is it? Right, You've got to define what it is.
So by my definition of what it is, France started it.
But yeah, if you want to take an Anglo centric
view and sort of build a different periodization, I suppose
you could say England started it at that point. I
(26:33):
don't think it would make any sense. But hey, when
you write your own book, you go for it.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
People are going to come for our scholarship, then they
got to write their own books and tell us how
it is.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Okay, So there are a few things that are overarching
themes within the book as well. So we've laid out
the history, laid out sort of a struggle for the crown,
as much as we want to forfront that or not.
There are a few things that read change over this time,
and I think when you put the dates like even
further apart twelve ninety two fourteen ninety two, these become
even more clear.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
And one of those things is standing armies.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
So tell us a little bit about how armies change
over this course and because of this war.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Absolutely, this really is the birth of armies as we
know of them. Happens in this period. I mean, as
you just said, when you think about from twelve ninety
to fourteen ninet two, like the changes that happen here socially, culturally, philosophically, religiously,
but militarily. Right, this is gunpowder, Like gunpowder shows up
in the middle of this thing, and that changes things drastically.
(27:39):
We have to end up building the infrastructure in France
to have a standing army, which isn't simple. That requires
a lot of change when you had a social system
that was built on lords having their own individual people
that they can bring in your negotiating who's going to
(28:01):
bring what, and it's very different for the king to say, well,
just give it all to me and I'll take all
the power, thank you, and I've got the army, and
it becomes this state supported thing. And there are small
civil wars in France over that issue because the lords
don't like that and they don't like that loss of
(28:23):
power and control. The French king wins all that, and
again all that is basically sorted by fourteen oin two,
which gives part of this like now you have France
as we can see of it, but it's not just
the building of standing armies that is I think I
think fascinating, but also the building of modern quote unquote
modern taxation practices and administration, because that's what you need, right.
(28:49):
Getting the men isn't typically the problem in a war.
It's the material and the money that's what costs. And
so to do this, well, we're gonna have to have
a standing army. I got to have a standing pay
system for those guys. I have to have a standing
system of manufacturing arms, the paying for that, a standing
(29:09):
system of transport and logistics, a standing administration system to
track of all this. It's the construction of the modern
state as we know it. Really that happens at the
end of this. And because this is what was needed
to just finally get the English out and keep them out,
you had to do this and they did it, I
(29:31):
mean the French did it, and it's successful. But it
really it's the kind of thing that I don't think
you usually think about when you think about one hundred
years of war. You don't think about how this is
changing our landscapes of culture and I mean nationalism. You
can make a very good argument is this is really
(29:52):
the birth of that. Even again, in the middle of
all this, you get sort of this nationalizing sense of
self identifying on national scales, and to have all of
that with all these amazing characters. I mean, Harry the
Fifth is an awesome character. I wrote there, It's an
awesome character. Phelipe is an amazing character.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Jon of Arc I mean, yes.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah, co jone of Arc, Like, oh my god, that
was a tough bit of the book to write.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
So yeah, you have all these amazing characters and all
these absolute world changing things that are happening, and then
the outcome of them, I think is so world changing. Again.
You know, this really pushes the Age of Discovery into motion.
You know, even if you say, well, you know, the
age Discovery is really kind of begun with with Portugal
(30:42):
and you know Prince Center, the Navigator and all that, Well,
that's only in a position to happen because of John
of Gaunt and everything he had done on the Iberian Peninsula,
because that has stemied any attempt they have to go
into the continent. So Princida and Naber goes out and
goes in the Atlantic. All of this is an outcome
of this conflict. I think, I say at the beginning
(31:04):
of the book, when I'm setting it up, this impacts
so much across the world. In the end, it would
be really weird to sort of say it was about
the control at English administrators in Gascony. That'd be like
a really weird thing. But when you take a bigger
scope of it, I think it really does make a
lot of sense and it fits together, at least I
(31:25):
hope it does. It made sense in my head the well.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
One of the things that I liked about this book
is that you extend a little bit further from these
two nations, because you know, the older I get, the
more I researched, the more I think that, like Flanders,
the Low Countries are just at the heart of so
much history, not to mention the Iberian kingdoms, And so
(31:50):
you've pulled them in here. Why do you need to
have them in here? Considering that you already had like
a mammoth task in front of you to explain two
hundred years of Anglo French history, was it important to
you to bring these kingdoms and counties into it?
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Yeah, great question, I mean, because I couldn't not do it.
I mean, is the is the you know the answer,
as you said, they are vital. Low Countries is absolutely
absolutely central to this whole thing. You know, this is
where the wealth is, the English wool trade. England's the
(32:24):
backbone of their economy is cheap and that wool trade
is all running through the Low countries, and some pedantic
person out there is like, well, not all of it,
it was only ninety something, I know, I know, okay,
but like this is this is where the money is
really coming in. So every side has something to play
(32:44):
for in the low countries, including the Low countries themselves, right,
you know, the people of Flanners like they have a
vested interest in what they want to do with their future,
and of course the Holy Roman Empire they want a
piece of this pot. So everybody wants control of the
money and wants the political control that comes with that. Right,
if I control the wool trade, not only kind of
(33:06):
buy a lot of stuff, that's cool, but also that
gives me these levers to control other parts of Europe.
And for England, I mean, it's it's kind of do
or die. If we lose that, what happens to our economy,
especially if we are also in the potential process of
losing the wine trade, out of aquity, out of gascony.
(33:26):
If we lose both these like what have we got now?
So this is really kind of an existential threat, and
it is inherently fixed on the Low Countries. They really
are the pivot for this entire fight. Early on, I actually,
when I was thinking about outlines and drafting and like
how am I gonna put this together? I had actually
(33:48):
tried to build it around simply telling the whole story
from the Low Countries, Like this entire conflict, how about
I just tell it from that point of view, to
really emphasize this importance, because I truly do think this
is the key to the whole thing. I couldn't make
that narratively work. I mean maybe somebody out there is
far more skilled than I and can do it. I
(34:10):
couldn't make it work because it requires too much like
leaving the stage to go tell something else to come back.
But I at least I tried to. Yeah, from the
kind of get go, the Low Countries are always a
character in this story because they are. They absolutely are.
They're always present, They're always in everybody's mind. And I
mean this is where some of the big drag out
(34:32):
stuff happens, as in the Low Countries are coming out
of the Low Countries. So yeah, they are phenomenally important.
I also, you know, I try to get you know,
a a lot of time spent with Scotland and Wales
because those are additional fronts in this war. And I said,
you know, the Iberian Peninsula, I mean, you have to
go there for something like the Battle of the Era.
(34:53):
But it's also that is another piece of the puzzle
as the two sides are trying to sort of get
over each other, not just on land but at sea.
The ships of the Iberian Peninsula are a major, a
major advantage to one side or the other, and so
both want it. And with its own problems of succession,
(35:15):
everybody wants to control that throne as well, so our thrones.
I should say it's multiple there. I mean it's all
of Western Europe is directly involved in this, the Italian States,
the Papal States, very heavily involved in all this, but
it spreads beyond that. It's it's an enormous story and
it was so it was a lot to get into
(35:36):
the book. Sorry it's so long, but I like it
was a lot longer. It's cut down from what it was.
It was a lot longer.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Well, it moves quickly, doesn't feel long. I just looked
at the page count and I was like, wow, But
I mean, you couldn't have done it unless I think. Okay, So,
as somebody who focuses on military history, I want to
come back around to gunpowder for a second, just to
give us a comparison. What does somebody fighting on the
ground look like in twelve ninety two? What do they
look like in fourteen ninety two? Because the actual shape
(36:06):
of weapons, armor, everything different. Can you give us a
sense of this before I let you go?
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Yeah, how much time do we have at the start
of this? You know, even if you just think about
not just the weapons, right, but what people are wearing.
You know, we're going to have a lot of a
male armor, right, you know people in chain, we move
through plate, and then we're moving towards you know what
we're going to end up having with Oliver Cromwell and
(36:32):
all that kind of jazz. That whole movement is really
present here. When you get to fourteen ninety two, you know,
at that point we're well into the know the War
of the Roses and all that good fun. Artillery is
an essential part of warfare. Guns are an essential part
of warfare. They first show up on the battlefield at
(36:53):
the Battle of Crecie, and that's just a couple of
little guns and they're noise makers. They're not meant to
mow people down. They're meant to spook horses and stop
a French charge, which they probably do. But that's an
awful long way from the walls of Constantinople coming down
from Canon. That's an awful long way from that kind
of thing from you know, naval fights with cannon like that,
(37:15):
we're going to end up getting like but it all
basically happens in this war. Wars, especially long ones, tend
to do this, you know, they tend to enable these
massive leaps of technology and how we kill each other, honestly,
and this one's no different that itself of course, has
(37:36):
social repercussions, right you know, artillery, You know, people have
written about this and about how gunpowder kind of changes
how you lead changes, leadership structures and military not just
tactics and training, but how things are organized change. Yeah,
well all that's they're starting to deal with that. They're
trying to figure all that stuff out because that's the
new world. I mean, it's just not it's not just
(37:59):
the new world. Of side of the Atlantic. But it's
a new world for how you think about about leadership
at all. I mean, you know, the Battle of Castillon,
the the main French leaders are not noblemen. It's the bureaus,
you know, Jean Bureau there they make guns and know
how to use them. And then at that point France
is like, hey, you know what, maybe give these guys
a shot. You know, like maybe leadership isn't just who
(38:22):
you're born. Maybe it's actually knowing some things and doing
stuff with that, you know, steps towards a meritocracy.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
Always.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
The French monarchy is not that way itself. Like that's
that's all good for you all. But you know, I'm
king because God made me king. It's a big difference
from where we were at the start, where you know
you're you're a leader because you were born to be
a leader kind of thing. So yeah, it is radically
reconfigured militarily and politically and all that. So yeah, it's
(38:51):
it's it's tremendously fun to write about because there's so
much that changes.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
You know, what's going to happen is you have this
big book. It's so thorough and brilliantly written and everything,
and you're gonna have people being like you forgot to
you forgot to see it.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Oh, I know I cut how much? I cut one
hundred thousand words out of this book? Yeah, something like that.
It was I knew my contract was for a certain length,
and it was like, well, that's not happening. I knew
that wasn't happening. Like I think I was in the
middle of Azincore and I was like, that's not gonna happen.
We're gonna blow that by. But I was like, I
have to finish it and then I can figure out
(39:27):
what I can take out. And yeah, it was something
like a hundred thousand words came out of it because
it was just I mean, it's just that big. But
you know, publishing books can only get so big, so
there's a ton of stuff that had to be cut.
And it was sad because some of the things I love,
things I really love, and I know other people would love.
But but the bigger story is gott to be told.
(39:49):
So yeah, I know there's gonna be people that why
didn't you give more detail on this, Like, oh, I
would have loved to.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I would have loved to That's what the book tours
for hopefully you have a book tour, you can talk
about this stuff.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
It'd be nice.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Well, people can ask all sorts of questions when they
see you for any of your books, because you have
a whole bunch of books out as well. Did you
do you want to take a second and tell us
what you're doing in the fictional world, because you also
have some great stuff coming out there too.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Well, so when you know this book is coming out
in October, I don't know when this is airing. Is
this airing around then?
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Around there? Yep?
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Okay, so you have this book out. I also write
fantasy novels. Probably some historians think I do that all
the time. So the third volume of my latest trilogy
is now out, storm Born. That's out and it's doing
pretty well. I'm pretty excited about that. And then I
did years ago, I did a historical fiction alternate history
(40:46):
set in the early or days of the early Roman Empire,
Anthony and Cleipatron all that, and it's getting re released
in January with a new title called The Arc in
the Empire with an amazing cover. It's incredible. So really
excited about that. And nash In Cord just came out
on paperback. So that's really fun to have that come
out in paperback because I think it's a good book
(41:07):
and more people will read it in paperback than hardback.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
So congratulations, congratulations, this is wonderful, And congratulations on this
book because this is a monumental achievement having to talk
about two hundred years of history within such a short
book relative terms. And yah, congratulations on this book. And
I know that it's going to spark a lot of discussion.
(41:29):
So thanks for coming on and telling us all about it.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Thank you, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
To find out more about Michael's work, you can visit
his website at Michael Livingston dot com. His new book
is Bloody Crown's, a New History of the One Hundred
Years War. Before we go, here's Peter from Medievalist dot
next to tell us what's on the website.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
What's going on?
Speaker 5 (41:51):
Peter, Hey, Hey, Well, this week we're going to take
a look at the favorite foods of medieval Europeans. Amazing,
and our culinary guy for this is a fifteenth century
cook named Johann of Buckenheim, and he had a great job.
He used the people chef and he was in charge
of feeding guests and visitors, so he's probably in a
(42:13):
good position to know what people from around Europe.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Like to eat.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yes, that's an amazing job.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
Indeed. Indeed, so he wrote a little work, had about
eighty eighty recipes, and most of them, he says, this
is good for Germans, or Hungarians, or Italians or even
the locals. Cute lotwer recipes. I've got one for you, perfect.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
What have you got.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
I've got a recipe for cheese soup. Just really good
for you, Danielle.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yes, because cheese soup is what you want when you're
a lactose in dolarant All right, what is the cheese.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Soup good for? Who is it good for?
Speaker 4 (42:47):
Well, first of all, you have to have fresh cheese,
mix it up with some eggs and some saffron and
even in some other sweet spices. Then you take some
fat broth, pour it on it, let it rest until
it's ready to eat. And he says it will taste
good to the French and English.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Ooh, they can agree on something, and it is cheese soup.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
Yeah, that's probably the only thing that they didn't agree
on in the fifteenth century. So he has a lot
of soups. He also has it for like different kinds
of social classes like the rich stupor even has one
for prostitutes.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Wow, are you going to tell us what sex workers
like to eat?
Speaker 4 (43:23):
It was roast almond milk.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
I mean that's what it's going to get all that
nutrition into you when you're working hard.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Yeah. Yeah, So we have that little collection of recipes
as well as other sources about medieval favorite foods.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Perfect well.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Thanks Peter for stopping by and telling us what's on
the website. Thanks, Thank you as always to all of
you for your kind support each week. You're the reason
podcasters like Michael and me love to do what we do,
and luckily it's easy to support indie history by sharing,
letting the adsplay, or by becoming patrons on patreon dot com.
(44:00):
Can get access to both this podcast and Michael and
Kelly's Bow and Blade right on Patreon. So what are
you waiting for? Check out patreon dot com slash medievalists
to find out how or everything from centuries to penitentiaries.
Follow medievalist dot net on Instagram at medievalist net or
blue sky at Medievalists. You can find me. Danielle Sebalski
(44:24):
across social media at five min Medievalist or five minute Medievalist,
and you can find my books at all your favorite bookstores.
Our music is by Christian Overton. Thanks for listening, and
have yourself an amazing day.
Hi everyone, and welcome to episode three hundred and twelve
of The Medieval Podcast. I'm your host, Danielle Sebowski. If
you were to ask random people on the street to
name one event that happened in the Middle Ages, it
(00:24):
wouldn't be long before someone mentioned the Hundred Years War,
or at least one of its legendary battles. Although a
lot of medieval history is murky, the whys and wherefores
not to mention the timeline of the Hundred Years War
are firmly nailed down, or are they? This week I
spoke with doctor Michael Livingstone about why the Hundred Years
(00:45):
War should actually be called the two hundred Years War.
He's a prolific author of both scholarly works and fictional works,
and a Citadel Distinguished Professor at the Citadel, and I
never know if I should call him doctor, professor or colonel,
so I just call him Mike. You may know him
from his books Agincore, Battle of the Scarred King and
Cracy Battle of Five Kings, or his documentaries on History Hit,
(01:09):
including his new series on Rebels podcast junkies will know
him from Bowen Blade, which he co hosts with Kelly
de freeze or from past episodes of this podcast. One
of Mike's several new books, and the one we'll be
discussing today is Bloody Crowns, a New History of the
One Hundred Years War. Our conversation on what Michael thinks
(01:30):
actually touched off the conflict when it ended, and why
we should question everything is coming up right after this. Well,
welcome back, Michael. It's so great to see you. It's
been years, so this is just a street for me
to see you again.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Welcome back, Thank.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
You for having me. Very pleased to be here. But yeah,
it's been a couple years since we caught up.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, yeah, so it's about time.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Okay, So you've written this big book on what you're
now calling the two hundred years were you have a
rep in our field for redefining things, battlefield sites, all that.
So I need to ask you this question. Do you
think you're the biggest trouble maker in medieval studies today?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
No? No? Yeah, Well look, so here's the thing. I
don't mean to stir things up like that's not you know,
it's not like a wake up in the morning and like, well,
who's cheerios? Can I like meddle with today. But like,
if you're going to go to the trouble of writing
a book, you should have something new to say. So
(02:29):
I've been sometimes accused of like, well, you just want
to relocate all the battles.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
And there's been plenty of battles that I've been asked
to study and to examine, and you're like, no, that's
where it happened. I don't write that. Like what even
is that? You know, Like, oh, that thing we thought
was true is true. That's not a book. So yeah,
it's the ones where you look at it and you say, yeah,
it needs to be fixed, it needs to be changed.
That's what I tend to write. And so so yeah,
(02:56):
I guess I have a reputation.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Of that is that.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Maybe in my own brain. No, I just had to
tease you.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I just had to teach you about it, because this
is something that you have done before, is reevaluate things
from the beginning. And actually I think this is a
responsible thing to do. One of the things that people
may or may not know about you is you're really
dedicated to going back to original sources rather than going
from translations, and this type of work is what leads
you in new directions, and so I actually really respect
(03:24):
what you do, but I have to give you trouble about.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
It because we've known each other a long time.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah, and I'll take that.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
I'll take that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
It is what kind of drew me to even my
career path, you know, in the degrees that I got
and the study I did was all to enable that
getting to the primary source, as I mean, to the
point of like can I read them? I need to
be able to read the original manuscript, not just the
original language. I need to have that kind of raw
data to really think anew and think fresh on things.
(03:53):
So yeah, I appreciate that, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, yeah, my pleasure. Okay, so let's get into this.
So this book is looking at the Hundred Years War again,
and you're suggesting that maybe it's two hundred years about
twelve ninety two to fourteen ninety two. But let's start
with what we quote unquote already know what is the
traditional starting point for the Hundred Years War.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Traditional you tend to start it in the year thirteen
thirty seven and then it ends in fourteen fifty three,
which is one hundred and sixteen years. The label one
hundred Years War I mean, which is a lot easier
to say than one hundred and sixteen, So I mean,
that's good. That's a label that doesn't even exist until
eighteen twenty three, so that's three hundred and seventy years
(04:40):
after the war supposedly concludes. Somebody comes up with this
title and everybody's just kind of gone with it and
then started, like I think, kind of making historical arguments
based on that periodization, and I don't know that that's
really a clever thing to do. I mean, I think
it's actually worthwhile to say, do those dates make sense?
(05:05):
And if they don't, what does make sense? And what
does that tell us about how things developed? The thirteen
thirty seven date is really about Edward the third being
sort of told that he can no longer be in
charge of Gascony, of Aquitane, Gascony, whatever you want to
call it. That's forfeit to the French crown because he
(05:26):
was he was supposed to pay homage as essentially a
vassal of the King of France. And fourteen fifty three
is the Battle Castillon, so you know, have to battle
Castillon the English or are kind of kicked out more
or less of Gascony, it's pretty much yet So all right,
I guess this is like a war sort of about
(05:46):
the status of Gascony. I guess that's what we're going
to put that together as. But that's not when that
struggle ended or began, honestly. So, you know, when I
started thinking about this book, pretty quickly, that problem presents itself,
you know, like, well, where do you start this story
and what even is this story? And that's kind of
what led me to going out on a limb and saying, well,
(06:08):
the dates are wrong, and we need to redefine the
dates and therefore redefine the war.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Right, Well, maybe we should go back even further, because
when we're talking about Gascony, we're talking about Aquitaine. Why
is there beef over this to begin with? How did
this become something a continental possession of the English in
the first place? Maybe we should make that clear before
we go new further.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
So the English had holdings on the continent back to
ten sixty six, right, you know, when the conqueror comes
over and becomes King of England, he's still the Duke
of Normandy in France, So in those French holdings, he's
actually underneath the French king. So from as far back
as ten sixty six you've got a problem where a
King of England is king in his own realm, but
(06:53):
part of his lands he's subject to another king that's
really just untenable. And from ten sixty six on you've
got various phases of this struggle. There is an earlier
one hundred Years War, as it were, which is all
about Henry and Eleanor Vaquitaine and all that goodness, which
(07:14):
is an absolutely amazing period, as you well know, absolutely
amazing period that expands greatly the English lands in France,
the Angevin Empire, it's often called because it brings in
Eleanor Raquitaine's enormous holdings in France. You know, So at
a certain point there the English lands in France are
(07:38):
like probably larger than the lands of the King of
France and France, and that that's a problem for the
French king. You don't like that. So you have a
kind of long struggle that unfolds from that. That's like
my whole introduction. It's a really long introduction to the book,
that is, start talking about the wars before the war
and all of this struggle that ends up with the
Treaty of Paris, which theoretic solved all the problems. Theoretically
(08:02):
solved all the problems, and it solved it all by
kind of codifying what the arrangement was. As long as
everyone follows the rules, everybody's gonna be fine. But like
not everybody wanted to follow the rules because one of
those problems. One of the rules is that, in a
medieval sense, you have to pay homage to your lord.
And if the French king said you have to pay
(08:25):
homage for your lands in France, you had to do
it like that's that was, that was the deal. And
some kings didn't want to do that. Yeah, some some
kings didn't. Really the French king was like, yeah, I
get it, and so you don't have to really do it.
But there were some hot heads and really the tur
In Years War is sort of that on a very
(08:46):
grand scale over generations. How you're going to make this work?
I mean, in the end, of course, you can't make
it work. I mean that's you know that this is
never going to work. It's just how is it? How
are we going to get out of the situation? And
it's extremely bloody two hundred year of trying to get
out in the situation is what it is.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Okay, So there is a moment where everyone's like, there
is a status quo. There's a bunch of pieces of
what used to be like Charlemagne's empire, but it is
now under the control of England, under the control the Unbrilla,
control of the King of France. Then you really pin
the beginning of this where if we're calling it a
two hundred years war, you pin the beginning of this
(09:23):
on someone who I am now very familiar with, and
that is Philip the Fair. He shoulders a lot of
blame for a lot of things. Tell us what happens,
Enter Philip the Fair, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Philip, and amazing guy.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
What a guy?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
What a guy? What a guy. I wouldn't want to
be anywhere near him, But what a guy? What a
you know, somebody who made a mark in history, that's
for sure.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
That's for sure.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yes, that's for sure. So I pinned the start to
twelve ninety two, and in particular to a murder that
most people don't know about, a murder of an unnamed
We don't know the guy's name, we're not sure where
he was from. But a murder takes place on a
secluded island out in the Atlantic. That causes a sort
(10:07):
of tit for tat repercussions, you know, like, oh, you know,
you killed somebody, We're going to kill somebody. You killed somebody,
We're gonna kill somebody. And it escalates very very quickly.
It's often called a pirate war because the people who
are doing this, the kings of England and France. Is
Edward the first at this point and Philipe are saying like,
(10:29):
we have nothing to do with it. Clearly, popularly, the
chroniclers they don't believe that. They're like the English chroniclers
are like Philip is behind all this. The French writers
are like Edward's behind all this. So I mean, I
don't think either man really is, but there's clearly a
sense that they could be, and everybody is willing to
believe that. And Philippe takes this moment to say, we're
(10:54):
kicking the English out. That's it, We're done, get them out,
and Edward is really caught off foot by this, and
ultimately they're able to re establish the status quo. But
this is coming at a very difficult time. I mean,
you know, you got William Wallace is rising up in
twelve ninety seven in Scotland, so Edward's got that to
(11:17):
deal with up there. Edward is trying to use the
low countries, you know, Flanders to try and get some
leverage over the French, and Phelipe being Philip, is trying
to sort of like Lepards at right back and take
more control because Philip is very interested in like centralizing,
you know, control within the realm. For a good reason,
(11:37):
He's interested in doing that. So you have these extremely
hard headed leaders. Edward the Verst is not like a
softy I don't know if anybody needs that pointed out,
like Ede the first like what a cuddle bug. Edward
is not, and Phelipe is one hundred percent not. And
(11:59):
they both are recognize, you know, we have an opportunity
to settle this and they want to settle it on
their terms, of course, and that's what really kind of
launches us into this two hundred years War because they
have Planet of Seeds and made the first steps of
we're not going to be okay with this arrangement that
(12:20):
the Treaty of Paris in a couple decades earlier, coming
out of the Engine Empire like the Treaty of Paris
had set these terms were not okay with it, and
in particular the French were not okay with it. They
weren't going to be happy until they had re established
in their mind ancestral France. It's the memory of Charlemagne
and Clovis. This is what France is supposed to be.
(12:42):
And I mean the English got to go, not just
be here and be convinced to bow the knee like no,
like you out, and they're not going to really rest
until that happens.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I think that Philip would have taken any excuse to
go for a gascony. The Pirate war just seems to
be a good one, so he's like, this is my time.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
That goes babby. But anyway, well, yeah, so then there
are children married.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
We got Edward the second Isabella of Friends, and then
they have the king who is going to be Edward
the third right, So this is bringing us into the
thirteen thirties, so that when we would come to thirteen
thirty seven.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
The French king is like, I'm going to take gasc
Any from you.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
But then there is a discussion about the actual Crown
of Friends.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
So tell us how this.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Goes, yeah, this never should have happened. Yes, never should
have happened. When when the King of France decides to
marry his daughter to the future King of England, she's
got older brothers and they're all young enough that nobody
has it in the cards that this could possibly screw
up the passing on to the crown. But it actually
(13:57):
turns out all of her older brothers bite it, and
they bite it pretty young, and they bite it without
a male heir. There are female airs, but there are
no male heirs. And foro England even gets involved, France
had already started playing this game of saying that that
(14:17):
women could not inherit the throne. So they'd done that
to disinherit some kids, which was a jerk move, but
whatever they did that the salak so called Salic law,
having established that, now they're like out of airs, like
they got well we'll shoot. And so the question of
what what happens now, because Isabella would be the next one,
(14:37):
like she's the next one up, and well that's not
gonna happen because she's a woman and she's the Queen
of England. That's not gonna happen. So who's gonna be
our next male heir. And at that point it's it's debatable.
There's at least three people, three dudes who can make
this claim. One is Edward the Third. He's like, I
am the directors centive, director, center director, let's straight up,
(15:00):
I'm good to go, and yeah, claim's coming through my
mom and she's one, but she's not getting the plans
I am, so like checks out. Weirdly, the French nobility
is not super keen on the King of France now
being the King of England. They're like, that's we're pretty
sure that's not going to work. There's also the King
of Navarre, Charles the Bad actually has a total legitimate
(15:22):
claim and he tries to push it. There's a good
reason he's known as Charles the Bad to historians. That's
nobody's seriously keen on him being it. What they actually
I'm doing is they go back a generation and then
move sideways to a Cadet line, and that's how we
get Felipe the sixth. And actually it's not like Edward
(15:43):
the Third cries foul. He doesn't. It's like, well, okay,
that's legit. He just wants what he wants and when
he starts not getting what he wants and starts needing
his allies in the Low countries and in Flanders and
part of the part of the world today's Belgium and Netherlands.
When he's got allies in the Low countries who want
(16:06):
to help him because he's trying to defend the wool
trade among other things, which is their riches are based on.
But they can't go against their oaths of fealty to
the King of France. Well here's an idea. How about
if I Edward claimed to be the king of France,
you'd be holding true to your oaths by helping me.
(16:29):
And I do have a claim. I mean I haven't
pushed it yet, but I do have a claim. So
this is just like political convenience. It becomes much bigger
than that because the English start feeling like, hey, really,
actually this I like this idea, we should be king,
And especially after the Battle of Creci, where Edward has
so thoroughly defeated fully, this becomes a far more kind
(16:51):
of legitimate or legitimized. I suppose it was always legitimate,
A legitimized claim that the English king is the proper
king of France through Edward, through his mother. So yeah,
it's a weirdly complicated thing. When I learned it as
a kid, it wasn't complicated.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
That's so true about like everything medieval though, right, You're like.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Oh, and then like this guy claimed the throne, you know,
well yeah, but also you know, no, like it was
it was economic, It was all these sort of other
things that were happening. And again it's it's not like
he immediately made that claim. He only made that claim
when it was like otherwise needed to make that claim.
And of course what happens, this massive, massive conflict isn't
(17:36):
what he intended. But I mean, in his lifetime it
went very well for a bit and then went very
badly and then under his airs the same kind of thing.
So the whole idea that the hundred years wore, as
it's normally defined, is about the crown of France. He
is one of those things that kind of fell by
the wayside to me, because well, the conflict wasn't about that.
(18:00):
That was a move, that was a thing that happens
as part of the conflict, but it wasn't about that,
not in the beginning and not in the end. Because
if you say well, the hundreds of War was about
the English claim to the throne of France, and it
ends in fourteen fifty three. No, it didn't. Nothing ended.
In fourteen fifty a battle was lost, but nobody declared
anything ended. The English continued technically to claim the throne
(18:22):
of France until George the Third the French Revolution had happened.
Here is no crown of France, and the English was
still like waity wait, yeah, Like so come on, it's.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Not about that.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
This is a war about France defining itself, defining its borders,
and defining its own authority within those borders, which is,
you know, not something most people have thought about. And
I think it, I hope is kind of an advantage
that I'm I'm an American. I don't have a dog
in this fight. You know, I'm not trying to towe
(18:55):
an English line or a French line. I'm just calling
balls and strikes as are coming in.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
I can.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, on the other side of the border here, I'm
like English and French all relled into one. So you know,
it's hard to pick a dog in this fight as
a Canadian as well, makes it easy for me.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Right or easy?
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Easy?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Easy? Right?
Speaker 1 (19:16):
So this begs the question why did you pick the
endpoint that you picked? So maybe what's the traditional endpoint?
And then why do people say this is the traditional endpoint?
And then why did you pick fourteen ninety two if
there's still discussion happening later.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah, so fourteen fifty three is the usual, and that's
the Battle of Castillon, which is kind of like the
last military gasp of the English in Gascony. Depending on
your exact date of the year, it could also be
the expulsion of the English administrators from Bordeaux, but like
that year, it is just like that's kind of like
(19:51):
things get kicked out of Gascony, and that has some
sensibility to it. If this is a war about control
of Gascony and that alone, then maybe that kind of works.
Your beginning date wouldn't work, That traditional beginning date wouldn't work,
but the end date, I guess that could end that.
The problem with stopping it there though, is again nothing
(20:12):
has been resolved. When the English side has said, oh well,
forget it, we're done, and nobody on the French side
is thinking, oh well it's finished. I mean, this is
an undeclared war. There was no declaration of war. This
is just something that metastizes and the ending is similarly undefined,
because there wasn't the thing in the beginning, so like
(20:32):
what ends it? Where you ended? For my part, I
felt like it was important if I'm going to structure
this around France and control of itself, then well when
is that really done? And when that is really done
is you've got Brittany brought into the fold kind of
formally and finally done Normandy, Gascony, Aquitain. When do we
(20:57):
get that sort of entity more or less cohesive and
the crown cohesive? And then the French monarchy moved into
Now this as a medievalist, I would say modern concept
because you know, after the printing press, everything's journalism. So
when you get that move into this kind of new
(21:19):
phase of the French monarchy and fourteen ninety two is
smack dab. You know, when you look at the treaties
and all that, and you get the treaty with England
that is basically, yeah, we agree, the English agree, You've
got all this stuff and we're not fighting for it.
We're not going to fight you in Brittany, We're not
(21:40):
going to fight you. You know when that is done.
It's done. Yeah. The English still have a sort of
you know, our coat of arms is still quartered and
all that stuff, but nobody's seriously making a play for it.
At the end of the book actually introduced my conclusion
with the field of the Cloth of Gold and Henry
the a meeting with the French king, and when they're
(22:03):
being introduced, Harold says, king of England and France, and
Henry laughs about it. You know, it's like, don't worry, man,
that's like, that's just some something that we say. Don't worry.
You know, it's not happening. It means nothing, is what
he says. It means nothing. So it's done. The war
is done. So yeah, I felt like fourteen ninety two
(22:23):
was the most sensible cut off given what I was
seeing held it together in the first place. I also
felt how perfect that was.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
To end it.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
This Columbus Sales of the Ocean Blue in fourteen ninety two,
and that's where this struggle goes, right. England and France
are both defined in what they are and what are
they going to be now?
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Right then?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
And then here they come to our shores and this
is where.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
They fight it.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
And yeah, in Canada. I mean to some degree it's
still happening. It's still happening. So the imperial movement in
colonial and all that, I mean, I think that grows
straight out of this.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
You know, England is not in France anymore. Where's it
going to be. It's got to go somewhere else, and
France is going to counter those claims wherever they're found.
So I think for a lot of reasons, it made
sense to to kind of lock it down there, and
I tried to be as transparent as I could be
on why that is.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, well, I mean, if you're going to make a
big claim, you got to lay out the evidence, which
is something that you do. And it's making me remember
when we're talking about sort of moving into the early
modern period that even today the license fleets from Quebec,
say Jimusuvian, which means I remember, it's just like these things,
they're never over, they're never completely done.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It goes way way way back.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, people don't like up. Yeah, fourteen ninety two it's
called the piece of a top, which is signed on
the third of November, and that's like the English shart
are just like we're done, We're not going to do
anything more on the continent, not like this. They still
hold a couple of Channel islands and things like that,
and the struggle over Calais, of course is going to
is going to move forward, but it's not these territorial
(24:07):
claims that that have been pushed. All of that's just done.
So I thought it paid sense to do it that way.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, well, I mean, so much of this is about
shifting identities, and when you decide that like this is England,
this is Friends, we are English, we are French, and
this changes from the.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Place that you're at.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
The year that we're talking about is just in constant flux.
And so I've been talking with our friend Dan Jones
about Charles the sixth reign and he's he was talking
about Henry the Fifth at one point and says, Friends
is unwinnable unless you have more of the French on
your side. If you just come from just England, you're
never going to win it. And in the end, in
(24:47):
the end, they sort of re established themselves in a
way that they had well before any of this started.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
That's absolutely right. I mean, you know, Henry the fifth
gets close to pulling it off.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah, ish you.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Know, Bedford did his best, and Bedford would have been
like a great King of England. But I don't think
Henry could have actually done it. I mean I really don't.
I think Henry Dan would probably get mad at me
for saying this. You know, Henry extraordinary figure, but also
really lucky to die when he did, in the sense
(25:22):
that that enabled his the myth of him to be
kind of put in stone at this moment, so that
he didn't have to oversee what probably would have been
a gradual pullback, so that people could just keep imagining
that he was this unbeatable guy. Well, you know, dying
when you're unbeaten is a good way to accomplish that.
(25:43):
So yeah, it never really could have worked. And yeah,
spoiler alert, France wins. Doesn't matter how you define this thing.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
What's funny is you actually kind of boldly say in
your book, like France arted this and they do finish it,
but they started it, which is both claim, which is
something I think you're going to have lots of arguments
over beer over many years after this book.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
But they do finish it.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah, yeah, they finish it, and they finish it in
a hurry. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, France, what
is it? Right, You've got to define what it is.
So by my definition of what it is, France started it.
But yeah, if you want to take an Anglo centric
view and sort of build a different periodization, I suppose
you could say England started it at that point. I
(26:33):
don't think it would make any sense. But hey, when
you write your own book, you go for it.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
People are going to come for our scholarship, then they
got to write their own books and tell us how
it is.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Okay, So there are a few things that are overarching
themes within the book as well. So we've laid out
the history, laid out sort of a struggle for the crown,
as much as we want to forfront that or not.
There are a few things that read change over this time,
and I think when you put the dates like even
further apart twelve ninety two fourteen ninety two, these become
even more clear.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
And one of those things is standing armies.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
So tell us a little bit about how armies change
over this course and because of this war.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Absolutely, this really is the birth of armies as we
know of them. Happens in this period. I mean, as
you just said, when you think about from twelve ninety
to fourteen ninet two, like the changes that happen here socially, culturally, philosophically, religiously,
but militarily. Right, this is gunpowder, Like gunpowder shows up
in the middle of this thing, and that changes things drastically.
(27:39):
We have to end up building the infrastructure in France
to have a standing army, which isn't simple. That requires
a lot of change when you had a social system
that was built on lords having their own individual people
that they can bring in your negotiating who's going to
(28:01):
bring what, and it's very different for the king to say, well,
just give it all to me and I'll take all
the power, thank you, and I've got the army, and
it becomes this state supported thing. And there are small
civil wars in France over that issue because the lords
don't like that and they don't like that loss of
(28:23):
power and control. The French king wins all that, and
again all that is basically sorted by fourteen oin two,
which gives part of this like now you have France
as we can see of it, but it's not just
the building of standing armies that is I think I
think fascinating, but also the building of modern quote unquote
modern taxation practices and administration, because that's what you need, right.
(28:49):
Getting the men isn't typically the problem in a war.
It's the material and the money that's what costs. And
so to do this, well, we're gonna have to have
a standing army. I got to have a standing pay
system for those guys. I have to have a standing
system of manufacturing arms, the paying for that, a standing
(29:09):
system of transport and logistics, a standing administration system to
track of all this. It's the construction of the modern
state as we know it. Really that happens at the
end of this. And because this is what was needed
to just finally get the English out and keep them out,
you had to do this and they did it, I
(29:31):
mean the French did it, and it's successful. But it
really it's the kind of thing that I don't think
you usually think about when you think about one hundred
years of war. You don't think about how this is
changing our landscapes of culture and I mean nationalism. You
can make a very good argument is this is really
(29:52):
the birth of that. Even again, in the middle of
all this, you get sort of this nationalizing sense of
self identifying on national scales, and to have all of
that with all these amazing characters. I mean, Harry the
Fifth is an awesome character. I wrote there, It's an
awesome character. Phelipe is an amazing character.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Jon of Arc I mean, yes.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah, co jone of Arc, Like, oh my god, that
was a tough bit of the book to write.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
So yeah, you have all these amazing characters and all
these absolute world changing things that are happening, and then
the outcome of them, I think is so world changing. Again.
You know, this really pushes the Age of Discovery into motion.
You know, even if you say, well, you know, the
age Discovery is really kind of begun with with Portugal
(30:42):
and you know Prince Center, the Navigator and all that, Well,
that's only in a position to happen because of John
of Gaunt and everything he had done on the Iberian Peninsula,
because that has stemied any attempt they have to go
into the continent. So Princida and Naber goes out and
goes in the Atlantic. All of this is an outcome
of this conflict. I think, I say at the beginning
(31:04):
of the book, when I'm setting it up, this impacts
so much across the world. In the end, it would
be really weird to sort of say it was about
the control at English administrators in Gascony. That'd be like
a really weird thing. But when you take a bigger
scope of it, I think it really does make a
lot of sense and it fits together, at least I
(31:25):
hope it does. It made sense in my head the well.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
One of the things that I liked about this book
is that you extend a little bit further from these
two nations, because you know, the older I get, the
more I researched, the more I think that, like Flanders,
the Low Countries are just at the heart of so
much history, not to mention the Iberian kingdoms, And so
(31:50):
you've pulled them in here. Why do you need to
have them in here? Considering that you already had like
a mammoth task in front of you to explain two
hundred years of Anglo French history, was it important to
you to bring these kingdoms and counties into it?
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Yeah, great question, I mean, because I couldn't not do it.
I mean, is the is the you know the answer,
as you said, they are vital. Low Countries is absolutely
absolutely central to this whole thing. You know, this is
where the wealth is, the English wool trade. England's the
(32:24):
backbone of their economy is cheap and that wool trade
is all running through the Low countries, and some pedantic
person out there is like, well, not all of it,
it was only ninety something, I know, I know, okay,
but like this is this is where the money is
really coming in. So every side has something to play
(32:44):
for in the low countries, including the Low countries themselves, right,
you know, the people of Flanners like they have a
vested interest in what they want to do with their future,
and of course the Holy Roman Empire they want a
piece of this pot. So everybody wants control of the
money and wants the political control that comes with that. Right,
if I control the wool trade, not only kind of
(33:06):
buy a lot of stuff, that's cool, but also that
gives me these levers to control other parts of Europe.
And for England, I mean, it's it's kind of do
or die. If we lose that, what happens to our economy,
especially if we are also in the potential process of
losing the wine trade, out of aquity, out of gascony.
(33:26):
If we lose both these like what have we got now?
So this is really kind of an existential threat, and
it is inherently fixed on the Low Countries. They really
are the pivot for this entire fight. Early on, I actually,
when I was thinking about outlines and drafting and like
how am I gonna put this together? I had actually
(33:48):
tried to build it around simply telling the whole story
from the Low Countries, Like this entire conflict, how about
I just tell it from that point of view, to
really emphasize this importance, because I truly do think this
is the key to the whole thing. I couldn't make
that narratively work. I mean maybe somebody out there is
far more skilled than I and can do it. I
(34:10):
couldn't make it work because it requires too much like
leaving the stage to go tell something else to come back.
But I at least I tried to. Yeah, from the
kind of get go, the Low Countries are always a
character in this story because they are. They absolutely are.
They're always present, They're always in everybody's mind. And I
mean this is where some of the big drag out
(34:32):
stuff happens, as in the Low Countries are coming out
of the Low Countries. So yeah, they are phenomenally important.
I also, you know, I try to get you know,
a a lot of time spent with Scotland and Wales
because those are additional fronts in this war. And I said,
you know, the Iberian Peninsula, I mean, you have to
go there for something like the Battle of the Era.
(34:53):
But it's also that is another piece of the puzzle
as the two sides are trying to sort of get
over each other, not just on land but at sea.
The ships of the Iberian Peninsula are a major, a
major advantage to one side or the other, and so
both want it. And with its own problems of succession,
(35:15):
everybody wants to control that throne as well, so our thrones.
I should say it's multiple there. I mean it's all
of Western Europe is directly involved in this, the Italian States,
the Papal States, very heavily involved in all this, but
it spreads beyond that. It's it's an enormous story and
it was so it was a lot to get into
(35:36):
the book. Sorry it's so long, but I like it
was a lot longer. It's cut down from what it was.
It was a lot longer.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Well, it moves quickly, doesn't feel long. I just looked
at the page count and I was like, wow, But
I mean, you couldn't have done it unless I think. Okay, So,
as somebody who focuses on military history, I want to
come back around to gunpowder for a second, just to
give us a comparison. What does somebody fighting on the
ground look like in twelve ninety two? What do they
look like in fourteen ninety two? Because the actual shape
(36:06):
of weapons, armor, everything different. Can you give us a
sense of this before I let you go?
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Yeah, how much time do we have at the start
of this? You know, even if you just think about
not just the weapons, right, but what people are wearing.
You know, we're going to have a lot of a
male armor, right, you know people in chain, we move
through plate, and then we're moving towards you know what
we're going to end up having with Oliver Cromwell and
(36:32):
all that kind of jazz. That whole movement is really
present here. When you get to fourteen ninety two, you know,
at that point we're well into the know the War
of the Roses and all that good fun. Artillery is
an essential part of warfare. Guns are an essential part
of warfare. They first show up on the battlefield at
(36:53):
the Battle of Crecie, and that's just a couple of
little guns and they're noise makers. They're not meant to
mow people down. They're meant to spook horses and stop
a French charge, which they probably do. But that's an
awful long way from the walls of Constantinople coming down
from Canon. That's an awful long way from that kind
of thing from you know, naval fights with cannon like that,
(37:15):
we're going to end up getting like but it all
basically happens in this war. Wars, especially long ones, tend
to do this, you know, they tend to enable these
massive leaps of technology and how we kill each other, honestly,
and this one's no different that itself of course, has
(37:36):
social repercussions, right you know, artillery, You know, people have
written about this and about how gunpowder kind of changes
how you lead changes, leadership structures and military not just
tactics and training, but how things are organized change. Yeah,
well all that's they're starting to deal with that. They're
trying to figure all that stuff out because that's the
new world. I mean, it's just not it's not just
(37:59):
the new world. Of side of the Atlantic. But it's
a new world for how you think about about leadership
at all. I mean, you know, the Battle of Castillon,
the the main French leaders are not noblemen. It's the bureaus,
you know, Jean Bureau there they make guns and know
how to use them. And then at that point France
is like, hey, you know what, maybe give these guys
a shot. You know, like maybe leadership isn't just who
(38:22):
you're born. Maybe it's actually knowing some things and doing
stuff with that, you know, steps towards a meritocracy.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
Always.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
The French monarchy is not that way itself. Like that's
that's all good for you all. But you know, I'm
king because God made me king. It's a big difference
from where we were at the start, where you know
you're you're a leader because you were born to be
a leader kind of thing. So yeah, it is radically
reconfigured militarily and politically and all that. So yeah, it's
(38:51):
it's it's tremendously fun to write about because there's so
much that changes.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
You know, what's going to happen is you have this
big book. It's so thorough and brilliantly written and everything,
and you're gonna have people being like you forgot to
you forgot to see it.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Oh, I know I cut how much? I cut one
hundred thousand words out of this book? Yeah, something like that.
It was I knew my contract was for a certain length,
and it was like, well, that's not happening. I knew
that wasn't happening. Like I think I was in the
middle of Azincore and I was like, that's not gonna happen.
We're gonna blow that by. But I was like, I
have to finish it and then I can figure out
(39:27):
what I can take out. And yeah, it was something
like a hundred thousand words came out of it because
it was just I mean, it's just that big. But
you know, publishing books can only get so big, so
there's a ton of stuff that had to be cut.
And it was sad because some of the things I love,
things I really love, and I know other people would love.
But but the bigger story is gott to be told.
(39:49):
So yeah, I know there's gonna be people that why
didn't you give more detail on this, Like, oh, I
would have loved to.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I would have loved to That's what the book tours
for hopefully you have a book tour, you can talk
about this stuff.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
It'd be nice.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Well, people can ask all sorts of questions when they
see you for any of your books, because you have
a whole bunch of books out as well. Did you
do you want to take a second and tell us
what you're doing in the fictional world, because you also
have some great stuff coming out there too.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Well, so when you know this book is coming out
in October, I don't know when this is airing. Is
this airing around then?
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Around there? Yep?
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Okay, so you have this book out. I also write
fantasy novels. Probably some historians think I do that all
the time. So the third volume of my latest trilogy
is now out, storm Born. That's out and it's doing
pretty well. I'm pretty excited about that. And then I
did years ago, I did a historical fiction alternate history
(40:46):
set in the early or days of the early Roman Empire,
Anthony and Cleipatron all that, and it's getting re released
in January with a new title called The Arc in
the Empire with an amazing cover. It's incredible. So really
excited about that. And nash In Cord just came out
on paperback. So that's really fun to have that come
out in paperback because I think it's a good book
(41:07):
and more people will read it in paperback than hardback.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
So congratulations, congratulations, this is wonderful, And congratulations on this
book because this is a monumental achievement having to talk
about two hundred years of history within such a short
book relative terms. And yah, congratulations on this book. And
I know that it's going to spark a lot of discussion.
(41:29):
So thanks for coming on and telling us all about it.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Thank you, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
To find out more about Michael's work, you can visit
his website at Michael Livingston dot com. His new book
is Bloody Crown's, a New History of the One Hundred
Years War. Before we go, here's Peter from Medievalist dot
next to tell us what's on the website.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
What's going on?
Speaker 5 (41:51):
Peter, Hey, Hey, Well, this week we're going to take
a look at the favorite foods of medieval Europeans. Amazing,
and our culinary guy for this is a fifteenth century
cook named Johann of Buckenheim, and he had a great job.
He used the people chef and he was in charge
of feeding guests and visitors, so he's probably in a
(42:13):
good position to know what people from around Europe.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Like to eat.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yes, that's an amazing job.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
Indeed. Indeed, so he wrote a little work, had about
eighty eighty recipes, and most of them, he says, this
is good for Germans, or Hungarians, or Italians or even
the locals. Cute lotwer recipes. I've got one for you, perfect.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
What have you got.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
I've got a recipe for cheese soup. Just really good
for you, Danielle.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yes, because cheese soup is what you want when you're
a lactose in dolarant All right, what is the cheese.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Soup good for? Who is it good for?
Speaker 4 (42:47):
Well, first of all, you have to have fresh cheese,
mix it up with some eggs and some saffron and
even in some other sweet spices. Then you take some
fat broth, pour it on it, let it rest until
it's ready to eat. And he says it will taste
good to the French and English.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Ooh, they can agree on something, and it is cheese soup.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
Yeah, that's probably the only thing that they didn't agree
on in the fifteenth century. So he has a lot
of soups. He also has it for like different kinds
of social classes like the rich stupor even has one
for prostitutes.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Wow, are you going to tell us what sex workers
like to eat?
Speaker 4 (43:23):
It was roast almond milk.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
I mean that's what it's going to get all that
nutrition into you when you're working hard.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Yeah. Yeah, So we have that little collection of recipes
as well as other sources about medieval favorite foods.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Perfect well.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Thanks Peter for stopping by and telling us what's on
the website. Thanks, Thank you as always to all of
you for your kind support each week. You're the reason
podcasters like Michael and me love to do what we do,
and luckily it's easy to support indie history by sharing,
letting the adsplay, or by becoming patrons on patreon dot com.
(44:00):
Can get access to both this podcast and Michael and
Kelly's Bow and Blade right on Patreon. So what are
you waiting for? Check out patreon dot com slash medievalists
to find out how or everything from centuries to penitentiaries.
Follow medievalist dot net on Instagram at medievalist net or
blue sky at Medievalists. You can find me. Danielle Sebalski
(44:24):
across social media at five min Medievalist or five minute Medievalist,
and you can find my books at all your favorite bookstores.
Our music is by Christian Overton. Thanks for listening, and
have yourself an amazing day.
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