Nishant Malhotra talks to Ms Anu Aga for Podcast Episode 2 on The Middle Road.
The following is an excerpt of my conversation with Anu Aga and not a substitute for the Podcast.. Listen to the Podcast here.
Ms. Anu Aga is an iconic businesswoman, social change enabler whose contributions to the society are a harbinger of goodness and uprightness. A philanthropist and successful businesswomen, Anu led Thermax into a global engineering company focused in energy and environment. She strongly supports initiatives in the social sector, especially in advancing equitable and quality education for less privileged people of the society in India.
Anu is an alum of the well known St. Xavier's College and the prestigious Tata Institute of Social Sciences. She is a person of prominence known for her business acumen, philanthropy and sense of humour. She has featured in leading publications including Forbes. For full article click here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Good morning,
very warm greetings from Nissan malhotra and welcome to the podcast at the Middle Road.
Thank you.
Oh no,
you have been an iconic leader,
not only in business but also in social change.
You turned around third max when few women entrepreneurs were working in India You have been awarded the Cadmus three award,
(00:27):
the fourth highest civilian award in the republic of India.
Would you like to talk about your journey through time?
Sure.
Ah Mission.
You talked about my turning around the company.
I did not do this individually unless I had support from my family,
(00:51):
my employees and many well wishers.
It could never have happened so I would not like to hog all the credit for the turnaround.
Uh I came from an upper middle class family and I had two older brothers who were constantly given the message that they should join the family business whereas though I was better than them in studies,
(01:24):
I was constantly reminded that my main goal in life should be to marry and to our Children.
I went to censorious College and did my Economics and political science and then went to Tata Institute to do medical and psychiatric social work.
(01:48):
Soon after I passed out I married a wonderful man called Brenton and I would say a lot of my growth was thanks to him nudging me pushing me to remain a career woman.
Ah we I had my daughter in Mumbai and we moved to pune when the business needed to be expanded it's been Rohinton was a very good friend of my brother's and my brother persuaded renting to join our company Brenton had studied at Cambridge and had had very good jobs with multinationals like burn marshall and Duncan brothers and he chose to join a small outfit,
(02:42):
unknown outfit because he failed in the bigger firms.
The perks and people were excellent but he couldn't make a difference and you had to be a white man to reach the top so he took a risk and joined the company.
We moved to pune.
(03:03):
I had my son there and for some time I didn't work and took it leisurely.
My husband kept nagging me that I should get back to work and my rebellion business was hooked and I said now I don't have to do what you tell me anywhere out of the blue.
(03:24):
My husband when he was in his late 40s had a massive heart attack and doctors advised that we should go to the UK have the bypass done.
We went to the,
we went to London and the bypass was a success but on the second day he had a stroke and this brilliant man couldn't recognize me.
(03:49):
I had forgotten his A B.
C.
D.
Is alphabets and the numbers in a stroke you could be depressed or you could be angry in a way thank God renter was angry because he could mobilize himself To write a b.
c.
d.
12344 months of course the family got the brunt of his anger and it was a difficult period because normally before the stroke my husband was a very good natured man.
(04:23):
His right hand was partially paralyzed and couldn't grip anything.
And he asked the physiotherapists in London if you could die the shoelace.
And he suggested that for a month he practices dying a big bowl on his thigh and then attempt tying the shoelaces renting for the full night,
(04:51):
kept dying the boar.
And next year when the physiotherapist came,
he died the shoelace who really made everyone wonder how such things were possible.
But his determination and greek to get well was great.
When we came to Mumbai all the well wishers said that I should take interest in thermedics because we were still a private limited company and my two Children were relatively being a professionally run company.
(05:26):
My only entry could be in the human resource.
So for five years I worked under a wonderful head called Prasad Kumar who invested in me and helped me to grow Five years later when Prasad wanted to be a consultant,
he told my husband that I was ready to take over.
(05:48):
I thoroughly enjoyed my rule in HR And we had many innovative practices and one many awards in India.
I had promised my daughter who had married a wonderful man called pharaohs that when she had the first child I'll be with her for six months.
(06:11):
I kept my promise when she was about to deliver and went to London where they were posted.
Uh,
Clinton came to London twice and we celebrated his 60th birthday there when I returned after my six months rent in.
Was delighted to have me back and he drove down from pune to Mumbai to receive me at the airport and drive me back to pune.
(06:39):
But destiny had some other other ideas and at the guesthouse before he came to pick me up,
he had a massive heart attack and he died uh,
two days after renting his death.
The term ACS board met and said I should be the executive chairperson.
(07:01):
I was not willing to take on this responsibility because I felt I was not an engineer.
I'm not good at finance and how will I be able to run an engineering company.
But the board was very firm that I should take on this responsibility.
A year before renting passed away,
(07:25):
Tarmacs had gone public and in a few months after his death,
The ₹400 share had come down to 35 during rentals time.
We had gone into many businesses which added to our top line but eroded our bottom line.
(07:48):
For example,
we were in software much before enforces of a pro,
but didn't know how to manage this as a I.
T.
Company and tried to run it from our engineering mindset and were not successful.
We were in electronics.
(08:08):
We were the first company to go in for winter Bine way before government declared the tax breaks.
And so it wasn't successful,
we were into silos.
But at that time again,
the Mondays didn't use silos.
So we were not successful.
(08:30):
One day I received an anonymous letter saying,
I don't know your financial position Mrs aka,
but you have let me down because max is doing so badly for my husband and me.
Letting down is a dirty word and I couldn't sleep for many days.
(08:50):
I was very agitated.
I knew I had to do something but didn't know what,
luckily a good friend came for dinner that day and he was the chair of boston consulting group,
nervous with me and we showed him the letter and he said boston consulting group can help the max to turn around.
(09:16):
When I talked about it to my senior executives,
they were dead against it.
They felt they would charge a very hefty fees and at a time when we were not doing well,
we can't afford to pay this hefty fees,
but I took it to the board and the board supported me and we engage BCG and we divested out of all the non core businesses.
(09:45):
We brought in performance culture intermix my husband and I felt that since there is no social net,
we could afford to carry a few non performance,
but I felt this could not be carried on and we had to demand performance.
(10:07):
We reconstituted the entire board,
which meant asking all the old board members to resign and reconstitute a new board.
The Old Board had nine executive directors in the olden days when an executor did well.
One way to recognize that person was to invite him on the board.
(10:31):
We had nine executive directors who when things were going well,
we're fine.
But when the performance was bad found it difficult To sit on the board and objectively evaluate their own performance.
So in the new board at that time we had four independent directors and only our MD,
(10:58):
was the executive director.
Mayor and pharaohs who were used to running businesses and being on the board were asked to decide whether they would like to continue running or be on the board.
They were quite annoyed with me for giving this Hobson's choice,
(11:20):
but today they are very grateful that I insisted and they decided to be on the board.
A few years later,
thumbtacks turned around and I decided to be non Executive Chairperson.
And at 61,
I retired from the company and the board decided that maybe I should be the chairperson.
(11:46):
She is far more ah far suited to hold this position because she's done her masters in Chemical Engineering from Imperial College and she has a good feel for finance and has invited the family values.
(12:08):
Thanks for sharing a very comprehensive and pregnant journey.
I know you have been a stalwart in social space.
You have taken groundbreaking and superlative initiatives in promoting equitable and quality education for the less privileged people in the society and promoting gender equality.
(12:29):
Take us through your work with a culture foundation,
teach for India very or a co founder and Ther max Foundation.
My son Karush had spent eight years abroad and the last the thing was a one year stint in Venezuela and my husband and I both have been there and suggested that he comes back and tries out working in term ax and if he doesn't like it,
(12:59):
he could go back ah kurdish when he came back.
It was very keen to get to know his father's better.
He always put him up on a pedestal and looked up to him but was not very close to him,
he was very close to me,
but we were having a very up down relationship,
(13:23):
sometimes we'd be very close and sometimes we'd fight a lot.
So after Carlos came away in eight days rent and passed away and rented a car,
which was quite bitter because as I said,
one of his reasons for coming was to get to know his father better.
One day out of the blue.
(13:45):
Karush told me that,
please mummy,
let's give 70-80% of what we earn to social causes.
And he put a gun at me and he said if you don't I will go back abroad,
I'm not a person who likes to do anything under compulsion.
So I told him he was free to leave,
(14:08):
but then mary and pharaohs came in and we all sat and chatted.
He apologized and he said I didn't mean to prescribe an exact amount but I feel that you are a social worker.
There's so much to be done in India and our needs are not very much.
So why don't we give soon after that She died in a car accident.
(14:33):
And this thought was going through my mind that koresh wanted us to give quite some amount to the social sector.
I inquired and found out that she,
he runs one of the better Ngos.
So I learned to Mumbai to meet her.
(14:53):
We both clicked and at that time a concha had centers where the students went to municipal or low income private schools and came to a center for 2.5 hours where they were taught english maths,
creativity and values.
(15:13):
Shaheen invited me on the Akasha board at the board.
We realized that while the Children had a lot of self confidence because in India if you could speak good english people had self confidence so they could get low hanging jobs like sales people.
(15:37):
But they we couldn't influence the academics very well.
So we said why don't we try and run schools at that time,
I knew the pune commissioner 19 career and he readily gave me an empty school building.
And that was the beginning of our p.
(15:57):
p.
p.
arrangement where the municipality gave the infrastructure the midday meal books and uniform Akane,
she hired the principal and teachers and trained them and invested in them and corporate spade the finances.
So this was the P.
(16:19):
Pp.
Arrangement I'm glad to save today.
We have we have closed down all our centers and moved to the school model and had 21 schools between Mumbai and pune.
10 years later.
Shaheen said she has a wonderful idea called based on teach for America and would I partner her in starting it in India.
(16:46):
And I readily agreed.
And that was how teach for India was started between teach for India and Russia.
12 students have gotten to United World College all over the world in Singapore Armenia Italy and all of them are insured that there graduate studies in the U.
(17:10):
S.
Will be paid by the U.
S.
Donor.
So what I think is we are not there just to see that the students get good marks but that they turn out to be good human beings who value differences and they don't look at from the length of gender cars community religion.
(17:35):
That's one very important thing.
And we in a cancer the look after the alums because for the first year when we didn't we found that they go they had done well.
The outside influences were very strong and they were not able to continue in their colleges.
(17:58):
So now we have a well established group that looks after the alums who have passed out and our aim is not to just let them pass well but to lift them out of poverty and in teach for India.
Our fellows,
what we call our graduates and professionals Who gave for two full years to work municipal or under source school.
(18:29):
And I'm delighted to say that 75% of our alum have stayed back in the social sector.
They have not bothered about corporate salaries but at a very minimal sad early they have stayed on in the social sector.
(18:49):
Many in the education center for example Sora join teach for India in the first court.
He had studied at I I.
T.
Delhi and worked in many Corporates but when he saw the teach for India ad he was attracted,
he finished his two years then joined in a conscious school and was a teacher,
(19:15):
rose to be a principal and when we were looking for the ceo of Akasha and had a headhunter do this job.
Sarah was chosen as the ceo officer and he is doing a great job condition was started a few years before CSR became compulsory at that time We used to give 3% of our profits to the foundation and we supported a few schools which a puncture.
(19:51):
We're running in puna.
When teach for India was started we started supporting teach for India and another initiative called pune city connect where my daughter is very active.
We also supported the puna city connect is a partnership between the pune municipal pune municipality corporate ngos and it helps in many areas but Tamil supported the education initiative.
(20:31):
As papa far is a personal giving is concerned the family has decided that 30% of the shares the dividend we get from that will be given to social causes and we support mainly teach for India but of course other causes like governance and whatever,
(20:58):
a little bit of health,
a little bit of music but mainly teach for India.
Thanks for telling us about tarmac CAesar and your family.
Filan trophy.
I would like to ask you if the new compulsory CSR rule in India you think could be a game changer.
(21:20):
I'm not for compulsory yes sir organizations that get how the social causes like tata's Bella's,
my judge had done in a large way,
agree before CSR was made compulsory but now that it's made compulsory,
(21:41):
let's not debate whether it's a good thing.
Now if taken in the right spirit,
it can have a lot of good impact but at times government is abdicating its responsibility and pressurizing incorporates to do what they ought to be doing.
For example,
(22:01):
clean swatch baron the toilet bit,
most PS US had to spend all the CSR funds on building toilets so if there is pressure from government to do things,
I'm not happy with it,
but because you care You do things,
(22:24):
it's a wonderful way and I wish more Corporates who join hands take up cause for example education instead of 10 people didn't different things in the same school if they join hands and had a plan of action of how to bring up the quality of education and I think it can be done.
(22:53):
In fact it is my dream that before I die we are able to impact every school being moratti or do all english and in substantial ways bring up the quality of education in Poland thanks and sharing,
(23:13):
sharing these facts.
Una serie connect I also met Ruchi and a lot of work is being done.
I really hope that your dream comes true.
I think it's it's going in the right direction and just needs much more participation that you rightly said from the Corporates.
And my next question is on tarmacs exclusive sake,
initiative,
women's rights and empowerment in India and enablers.
(23:36):
And the equality is something which is a must and India is make your tiny,
tiny tiny steps that we are hundreds of miles away from it.
Uh women today are still treated as objects and female physical feat aside is rampant not only amongst the poor but in well to do.
(24:09):
Still,
most mothers give differential parents.
In fact give differential messages to the child and the girl child.
The girl child is not encouraged to study And is married off very early because she's a liability and though the law says it has to be minimum 18 years in remote parts of India at 12.
(24:35):
Girls are married,
there are mothers before There are 16,
17,
many have to take the husbands permission before the do anything.
In fact,
I'm supposed by many educated corporate women saying I have been allowed to work,
(24:58):
I have been allowed to do such and such.
You know,
can you imagine the husband saying my life is allowing me to work.
So remember themselves,
consider themselves as equal to me and look up to men and put them up on a pedestrian.
So a lot of work has to be done.
(25:20):
The Metoo moment also brought out that not only in India but also abroad powerful men,
men in responsible positions take advantage of that and treat women,
but I'm sure a lot of things are happening now.
(25:43):
We are just a lot more safeguards for women.
A lot of things changing.
I'm not social understand laws have been made,
but are women really secure today?
Even today if a woman goes to a police station and says their husband beats me,
do something.
(26:04):
The response from the policeman is he's your husband.
So he has a right to beat you.
So what are you making such a big possible with this attitude of policemen?
Of course,
now they're women policemen who hopefully are more sympathetic.
We are making strides,
but tomorrow of thinking very,
(26:25):
very slow.
Some of you know,
you've talked a lot about a lot of challenges here.
So what do you think are the many challenges that you've foreseen implementing a judicious framework of empowerment for women and equitable education,
you could talk about some of the enablers here,
which you think would be really nice,
I guess what you'd like to see,
(26:47):
I think the biggest enabler would be education and The girl child who comes out of or tier five is no different from her male counterpart.
We have so many women who have finished their graduation and have got lovely jobs,
(27:10):
what is not able to,
who refused to marry,
even if the muslim girls say we will not marry some Who are 30,
also have not married yet.
So I would say education and the ability to earn their own living and be independent and not be dependent either on their family or on a husband is a very important thing then a social set up police laws which protect them when they need help and not show them a way that then make a big thing out of a small problem,
(27:52):
so,
but the most important thing is education,
I think even healthwise,
a girl child is not given the best of nutrition if you are poor and the man is given the best of things,
so her health is also neglected very often education,
(28:13):
health messages,
equal messages respecting both are all the beginnings of empowering women,
okay,
thanks,
you know,
you talked about a lot of challenges now if we specifically try to look at the corporate world,
these are something which is like they're in the,
(28:34):
within the society,
within the system but when we do look at the corporate boards,
do you have any specific ideas or anything how to promote gender rights or better rights within business?
Either in India or in abroad?
I think the V shaka guidelines which makes it compulsory for each corporate to have a committee where women can go and complain if there is anything sexually done.
(29:04):
I think in that respect,
in the corporate well,
there are many strides that have been made.
Most corporate have education for the men also,
what is considered harassment,
for example,
putting your arms around a woman in a friendly way to a man may not be seen as harassment but from a woman for a woman who comes from a different background that could be considered harassment.
(29:35):
So mary and I have had a few sessions with our woman also saying,
but the best way you can deal with harassment is to be very form and stop it at the bud and not escalated to committees,
the more you are able to take care of yourself,
(29:55):
the better it is because in the outside world there are no committees.
So how will you take care of yourself?
So be very firm asserted and says stop it.
I don't like it.
The higher network individual segment,
the Chennai segment is donating a lot of money in recent years,
(30:16):
we like to talk about key initiatives in the segment and how it is affecting given About 8 to 10 years ago Melinda and Bill Gates along with Warren Buffett came to India and with people like Azim Premji Roa anin,
elegant and many others.
(30:36):
They started something called indian philanthropic initiative I P.
I and we meet formally once a year and have awful potential philanthropists.
Many expose them I would say not offer but expose them to different sectors which need philanthropy all through the year.
(31:06):
Each of us take up a course and try and do something about it and call people in the city to make them aware of the cause and if they want they could give more towards it.
So this is an initiative that was started,
(31:27):
talked a lot about initiatives in business and social space.
No.
Would you like to elaborate on specific qualities which helped you on your journey in life both on the personal and spiritual front.
Ah soon after my husband died I attended a buddhist meditation program called Vipassana.
(31:52):
You have to be silent for 10 days and you cannot distract yourself with reading,
writing,
listening to music and it's a little structure of course where through a tape recorder we're told what to do And you get up at 4:30 until you sleep at 9:30 you have to meditate for one hour and then a small break and then again meditate it's stuff but when I run for the first time tailgate party And saw 700 people doing it.
(32:29):
I felt how am I different from any of them and why should I want to quit?
In any case once I started thinking I don't quit so I went through it and found it so helpful,
I was able to come to terms with death.
I stopped comparing myself constantly with my husband and putting myself down.
(32:53):
I said to myself that's an Appy pre cannot give oranges.
So if I want to be like Quenton I'll neither enjoy my good points and we'll keep focusing on my limitations.
I have found it so helpful that I have been so far for,
(33:14):
for meditation programs attending programs one weekend one and daily meditate for an hour.
So you said my spiritual journey,
I don't know if I can call it a spiritual journey but it's something which has helped me tremendously.
(33:34):
I'm still full of shit but my ship,
it doesn't smell so bad to me and I can be with,
I can be,
I can live with my ship and since I can live with it,
I emerge gently towards other people's shit.
Also,
so do in India if you do meditation or go to a group,
(33:58):
you claim you are a spiritual person.
I don't make any such claim and far from being a spiritual person.
I like to experiment with things which challenges which challenge me,
thank you.
I know sharing a very candid feedback on about your experience with the past now I might seriously practice a lot of personal meditation.
(34:24):
I went to a lot of camps now very specifically did mindfulness help you come to terms in life will be more of a be more effective as a manager.
I don't know,
I don't see a direct relation to being a more effective manager,
(34:46):
but I do see I'm more at peace with myself.
Um I'm still very reactive,
I'm not a good listener,
I'm judgmental all these but it's a little less and my life is more on an even keel.
(35:07):
I don't have ups and downs very much I don't hanker after things.
All relationships for example,
more as someone closes to me.
I love her and we enjoy each other.
We go for holidays,
we have fun together.
I laughed the most with her earlier when our holidays used to end,
(35:29):
I used to feel very sad today.
I'm not sad at all.
I feel ok.
It was wonderful.
But now if if it happens against one wonderful if it doesn't happen.
Yeah.
Coming to Yeah,
yeah,
yeah.
Thanks for finally I wanted to ask thank you so much.
(35:53):
Would you like to share any which thinks smile or happiness specifically it is related to construction and then with the students of a contessa of teachers teach for India or even the fellows of teach for India have become very hopeful.
(36:15):
You know sometimes uh You are a little depressed about the future of India and you'll see 22% of the people below poverty line.
When you see the dismal educational system,
when you see such poor spend on health and health and education with the poor spend has lots of corruption.
(36:38):
Also that goes with it.
But when I see these students and my fellows a smile and hope comes into my life,
I feel with more people.
And there are many other foundations like the Carnegie Foundation,
many which brings are doing excellent work.
(36:59):
So if more and more people join these movements,
I think India has a wonderful future.
And that brings a big hope and smile on my face.
Thank you for giving ample time and speaking so much at length on your personal journey both in business and social space.
Good morning,
very warm greetings from Nissan malhotra and welcome to the podcast at the Middle Road.
Thank you.
Oh no,
you have been an iconic leader,
not only in business but also in social change.
You turned around third max when few women entrepreneurs were working in India You have been awarded the Cadmus three award,
(00:27):
the fourth highest civilian award in the republic of India.
Would you like to talk about your journey through time?
Sure.
Ah Mission.
You talked about my turning around the company.
I did not do this individually unless I had support from my family,
(00:51):
my employees and many well wishers.
It could never have happened so I would not like to hog all the credit for the turnaround.
Uh I came from an upper middle class family and I had two older brothers who were constantly given the message that they should join the family business whereas though I was better than them in studies,
(01:24):
I was constantly reminded that my main goal in life should be to marry and to our Children.
I went to censorious College and did my Economics and political science and then went to Tata Institute to do medical and psychiatric social work.
(01:48):
Soon after I passed out I married a wonderful man called Brenton and I would say a lot of my growth was thanks to him nudging me pushing me to remain a career woman.
Ah we I had my daughter in Mumbai and we moved to pune when the business needed to be expanded it's been Rohinton was a very good friend of my brother's and my brother persuaded renting to join our company Brenton had studied at Cambridge and had had very good jobs with multinationals like burn marshall and Duncan brothers and he chose to join a small outfit,
(02:42):
unknown outfit because he failed in the bigger firms.
The perks and people were excellent but he couldn't make a difference and you had to be a white man to reach the top so he took a risk and joined the company.
We moved to pune.
(03:03):
I had my son there and for some time I didn't work and took it leisurely.
My husband kept nagging me that I should get back to work and my rebellion business was hooked and I said now I don't have to do what you tell me anywhere out of the blue.
(03:24):
My husband when he was in his late 40s had a massive heart attack and doctors advised that we should go to the UK have the bypass done.
We went to the,
we went to London and the bypass was a success but on the second day he had a stroke and this brilliant man couldn't recognize me.
(03:49):
I had forgotten his A B.
C.
D.
Is alphabets and the numbers in a stroke you could be depressed or you could be angry in a way thank God renter was angry because he could mobilize himself To write a b.
c.
d.
12344 months of course the family got the brunt of his anger and it was a difficult period because normally before the stroke my husband was a very good natured man.
(04:23):
His right hand was partially paralyzed and couldn't grip anything.
And he asked the physiotherapists in London if you could die the shoelace.
And he suggested that for a month he practices dying a big bowl on his thigh and then attempt tying the shoelaces renting for the full night,
(04:51):
kept dying the boar.
And next year when the physiotherapist came,
he died the shoelace who really made everyone wonder how such things were possible.
But his determination and greek to get well was great.
When we came to Mumbai all the well wishers said that I should take interest in thermedics because we were still a private limited company and my two Children were relatively being a professionally run company.
(05:26):
My only entry could be in the human resource.
So for five years I worked under a wonderful head called Prasad Kumar who invested in me and helped me to grow Five years later when Prasad wanted to be a consultant,
he told my husband that I was ready to take over.
(05:48):
I thoroughly enjoyed my rule in HR And we had many innovative practices and one many awards in India.
I had promised my daughter who had married a wonderful man called pharaohs that when she had the first child I'll be with her for six months.
(06:11):
I kept my promise when she was about to deliver and went to London where they were posted.
Uh,
Clinton came to London twice and we celebrated his 60th birthday there when I returned after my six months rent in.
Was delighted to have me back and he drove down from pune to Mumbai to receive me at the airport and drive me back to pune.
(06:39):
But destiny had some other other ideas and at the guesthouse before he came to pick me up,
he had a massive heart attack and he died uh,
two days after renting his death.
The term ACS board met and said I should be the executive chairperson.
(07:01):
I was not willing to take on this responsibility because I felt I was not an engineer.
I'm not good at finance and how will I be able to run an engineering company.
But the board was very firm that I should take on this responsibility.
A year before renting passed away,
(07:25):
Tarmacs had gone public and in a few months after his death,
The ₹400 share had come down to 35 during rentals time.
We had gone into many businesses which added to our top line but eroded our bottom line.
(07:48):
For example,
we were in software much before enforces of a pro,
but didn't know how to manage this as a I.
T.
Company and tried to run it from our engineering mindset and were not successful.
We were in electronics.
(08:08):
We were the first company to go in for winter Bine way before government declared the tax breaks.
And so it wasn't successful,
we were into silos.
But at that time again,
the Mondays didn't use silos.
So we were not successful.
(08:30):
One day I received an anonymous letter saying,
I don't know your financial position Mrs aka,
but you have let me down because max is doing so badly for my husband and me.
Letting down is a dirty word and I couldn't sleep for many days.
(08:50):
I was very agitated.
I knew I had to do something but didn't know what,
luckily a good friend came for dinner that day and he was the chair of boston consulting group,
nervous with me and we showed him the letter and he said boston consulting group can help the max to turn around.
(09:16):
When I talked about it to my senior executives,
they were dead against it.
They felt they would charge a very hefty fees and at a time when we were not doing well,
we can't afford to pay this hefty fees,
but I took it to the board and the board supported me and we engage BCG and we divested out of all the non core businesses.
(09:45):
We brought in performance culture intermix my husband and I felt that since there is no social net,
we could afford to carry a few non performance,
but I felt this could not be carried on and we had to demand performance.
(10:07):
We reconstituted the entire board,
which meant asking all the old board members to resign and reconstitute a new board.
The Old Board had nine executive directors in the olden days when an executor did well.
One way to recognize that person was to invite him on the board.
(10:31):
We had nine executive directors who when things were going well,
we're fine.
But when the performance was bad found it difficult To sit on the board and objectively evaluate their own performance.
So in the new board at that time we had four independent directors and only our MD,
(10:58):
was the executive director.
Mayor and pharaohs who were used to running businesses and being on the board were asked to decide whether they would like to continue running or be on the board.
They were quite annoyed with me for giving this Hobson's choice,
(11:20):
but today they are very grateful that I insisted and they decided to be on the board.
A few years later,
thumbtacks turned around and I decided to be non Executive Chairperson.
And at 61,
I retired from the company and the board decided that maybe I should be the chairperson.
(11:46):
She is far more ah far suited to hold this position because she's done her masters in Chemical Engineering from Imperial College and she has a good feel for finance and has invited the family values.
(12:08):
Thanks for sharing a very comprehensive and pregnant journey.
I know you have been a stalwart in social space.
You have taken groundbreaking and superlative initiatives in promoting equitable and quality education for the less privileged people in the society and promoting gender equality.
(12:29):
Take us through your work with a culture foundation,
teach for India very or a co founder and Ther max Foundation.
My son Karush had spent eight years abroad and the last the thing was a one year stint in Venezuela and my husband and I both have been there and suggested that he comes back and tries out working in term ax and if he doesn't like it,
(12:59):
he could go back ah kurdish when he came back.
It was very keen to get to know his father's better.
He always put him up on a pedestal and looked up to him but was not very close to him,
he was very close to me,
but we were having a very up down relationship,
(13:23):
sometimes we'd be very close and sometimes we'd fight a lot.
So after Carlos came away in eight days rent and passed away and rented a car,
which was quite bitter because as I said,
one of his reasons for coming was to get to know his father better.
One day out of the blue.
(13:45):
Karush told me that,
please mummy,
let's give 70-80% of what we earn to social causes.
And he put a gun at me and he said if you don't I will go back abroad,
I'm not a person who likes to do anything under compulsion.
So I told him he was free to leave,
(14:08):
but then mary and pharaohs came in and we all sat and chatted.
He apologized and he said I didn't mean to prescribe an exact amount but I feel that you are a social worker.
There's so much to be done in India and our needs are not very much.
So why don't we give soon after that She died in a car accident.
(14:33):
And this thought was going through my mind that koresh wanted us to give quite some amount to the social sector.
I inquired and found out that she,
he runs one of the better Ngos.
So I learned to Mumbai to meet her.
(14:53):
We both clicked and at that time a concha had centers where the students went to municipal or low income private schools and came to a center for 2.5 hours where they were taught english maths,
creativity and values.
(15:13):
Shaheen invited me on the Akasha board at the board.
We realized that while the Children had a lot of self confidence because in India if you could speak good english people had self confidence so they could get low hanging jobs like sales people.
(15:37):
But they we couldn't influence the academics very well.
So we said why don't we try and run schools at that time,
I knew the pune commissioner 19 career and he readily gave me an empty school building.
And that was the beginning of our p.
(15:57):
p.
p.
arrangement where the municipality gave the infrastructure the midday meal books and uniform Akane,
she hired the principal and teachers and trained them and invested in them and corporate spade the finances.
So this was the P.
(16:19):
Pp.
Arrangement I'm glad to save today.
We have we have closed down all our centers and moved to the school model and had 21 schools between Mumbai and pune.
10 years later.
Shaheen said she has a wonderful idea called based on teach for America and would I partner her in starting it in India.
(16:46):
And I readily agreed.
And that was how teach for India was started between teach for India and Russia.
12 students have gotten to United World College all over the world in Singapore Armenia Italy and all of them are insured that there graduate studies in the U.
(17:10):
S.
Will be paid by the U.
S.
Donor.
So what I think is we are not there just to see that the students get good marks but that they turn out to be good human beings who value differences and they don't look at from the length of gender cars community religion.
(17:35):
That's one very important thing.
And we in a cancer the look after the alums because for the first year when we didn't we found that they go they had done well.
The outside influences were very strong and they were not able to continue in their colleges.
(17:58):
So now we have a well established group that looks after the alums who have passed out and our aim is not to just let them pass well but to lift them out of poverty and in teach for India.
Our fellows,
what we call our graduates and professionals Who gave for two full years to work municipal or under source school.
(18:29):
And I'm delighted to say that 75% of our alum have stayed back in the social sector.
They have not bothered about corporate salaries but at a very minimal sad early they have stayed on in the social sector.
(18:49):
Many in the education center for example Sora join teach for India in the first court.
He had studied at I I.
T.
Delhi and worked in many Corporates but when he saw the teach for India ad he was attracted,
he finished his two years then joined in a conscious school and was a teacher,
(19:15):
rose to be a principal and when we were looking for the ceo of Akasha and had a headhunter do this job.
Sarah was chosen as the ceo officer and he is doing a great job condition was started a few years before CSR became compulsory at that time We used to give 3% of our profits to the foundation and we supported a few schools which a puncture.
(19:51):
We're running in puna.
When teach for India was started we started supporting teach for India and another initiative called pune city connect where my daughter is very active.
We also supported the puna city connect is a partnership between the pune municipal pune municipality corporate ngos and it helps in many areas but Tamil supported the education initiative.
(20:31):
As papa far is a personal giving is concerned the family has decided that 30% of the shares the dividend we get from that will be given to social causes and we support mainly teach for India but of course other causes like governance and whatever,
(20:58):
a little bit of health,
a little bit of music but mainly teach for India.
Thanks for telling us about tarmac CAesar and your family.
Filan trophy.
I would like to ask you if the new compulsory CSR rule in India you think could be a game changer.
(21:20):
I'm not for compulsory yes sir organizations that get how the social causes like tata's Bella's,
my judge had done in a large way,
agree before CSR was made compulsory but now that it's made compulsory,
(21:41):
let's not debate whether it's a good thing.
Now if taken in the right spirit,
it can have a lot of good impact but at times government is abdicating its responsibility and pressurizing incorporates to do what they ought to be doing.
For example,
(22:01):
clean swatch baron the toilet bit,
most PS US had to spend all the CSR funds on building toilets so if there is pressure from government to do things,
I'm not happy with it,
but because you care You do things,
(22:24):
it's a wonderful way and I wish more Corporates who join hands take up cause for example education instead of 10 people didn't different things in the same school if they join hands and had a plan of action of how to bring up the quality of education and I think it can be done.
(22:53):
In fact it is my dream that before I die we are able to impact every school being moratti or do all english and in substantial ways bring up the quality of education in Poland thanks and sharing,
(23:13):
sharing these facts.
Una serie connect I also met Ruchi and a lot of work is being done.
I really hope that your dream comes true.
I think it's it's going in the right direction and just needs much more participation that you rightly said from the Corporates.
And my next question is on tarmacs exclusive sake,
initiative,
women's rights and empowerment in India and enablers.
(23:36):
And the equality is something which is a must and India is make your tiny,
tiny tiny steps that we are hundreds of miles away from it.
Uh women today are still treated as objects and female physical feat aside is rampant not only amongst the poor but in well to do.
(24:09):
Still,
most mothers give differential parents.
In fact give differential messages to the child and the girl child.
The girl child is not encouraged to study And is married off very early because she's a liability and though the law says it has to be minimum 18 years in remote parts of India at 12.
(24:35):
Girls are married,
there are mothers before There are 16,
17,
many have to take the husbands permission before the do anything.
In fact,
I'm supposed by many educated corporate women saying I have been allowed to work,
(24:58):
I have been allowed to do such and such.
You know,
can you imagine the husband saying my life is allowing me to work.
So remember themselves,
consider themselves as equal to me and look up to men and put them up on a pedestrian.
So a lot of work has to be done.
(25:20):
The Metoo moment also brought out that not only in India but also abroad powerful men,
men in responsible positions take advantage of that and treat women,
but I'm sure a lot of things are happening now.
(25:43):
We are just a lot more safeguards for women.
A lot of things changing.
I'm not social understand laws have been made,
but are women really secure today?
Even today if a woman goes to a police station and says their husband beats me,
do something.
(26:04):
The response from the policeman is he's your husband.
So he has a right to beat you.
So what are you making such a big possible with this attitude of policemen?
Of course,
now they're women policemen who hopefully are more sympathetic.
We are making strides,
but tomorrow of thinking very,
(26:25):
very slow.
Some of you know,
you've talked a lot about a lot of challenges here.
So what do you think are the many challenges that you've foreseen implementing a judicious framework of empowerment for women and equitable education,
you could talk about some of the enablers here,
which you think would be really nice,
I guess what you'd like to see,
(26:47):
I think the biggest enabler would be education and The girl child who comes out of or tier five is no different from her male counterpart.
We have so many women who have finished their graduation and have got lovely jobs,
(27:10):
what is not able to,
who refused to marry,
even if the muslim girls say we will not marry some Who are 30,
also have not married yet.
So I would say education and the ability to earn their own living and be independent and not be dependent either on their family or on a husband is a very important thing then a social set up police laws which protect them when they need help and not show them a way that then make a big thing out of a small problem,
(27:52):
so,
but the most important thing is education,
I think even healthwise,
a girl child is not given the best of nutrition if you are poor and the man is given the best of things,
so her health is also neglected very often education,
(28:13):
health messages,
equal messages respecting both are all the beginnings of empowering women,
okay,
thanks,
you know,
you talked about a lot of challenges now if we specifically try to look at the corporate world,
these are something which is like they're in the,
(28:34):
within the society,
within the system but when we do look at the corporate boards,
do you have any specific ideas or anything how to promote gender rights or better rights within business?
Either in India or in abroad?
I think the V shaka guidelines which makes it compulsory for each corporate to have a committee where women can go and complain if there is anything sexually done.
(29:04):
I think in that respect,
in the corporate well,
there are many strides that have been made.
Most corporate have education for the men also,
what is considered harassment,
for example,
putting your arms around a woman in a friendly way to a man may not be seen as harassment but from a woman for a woman who comes from a different background that could be considered harassment.
(29:35):
So mary and I have had a few sessions with our woman also saying,
but the best way you can deal with harassment is to be very form and stop it at the bud and not escalated to committees,
the more you are able to take care of yourself,
(29:55):
the better it is because in the outside world there are no committees.
So how will you take care of yourself?
So be very firm asserted and says stop it.
I don't like it.
The higher network individual segment,
the Chennai segment is donating a lot of money in recent years,
(30:16):
we like to talk about key initiatives in the segment and how it is affecting given About 8 to 10 years ago Melinda and Bill Gates along with Warren Buffett came to India and with people like Azim Premji Roa anin,
elegant and many others.
(30:36):
They started something called indian philanthropic initiative I P.
I and we meet formally once a year and have awful potential philanthropists.
Many expose them I would say not offer but expose them to different sectors which need philanthropy all through the year.
(31:06):
Each of us take up a course and try and do something about it and call people in the city to make them aware of the cause and if they want they could give more towards it.
So this is an initiative that was started,
(31:27):
talked a lot about initiatives in business and social space.
No.
Would you like to elaborate on specific qualities which helped you on your journey in life both on the personal and spiritual front.
Ah soon after my husband died I attended a buddhist meditation program called Vipassana.
(31:52):
You have to be silent for 10 days and you cannot distract yourself with reading,
writing,
listening to music and it's a little structure of course where through a tape recorder we're told what to do And you get up at 4:30 until you sleep at 9:30 you have to meditate for one hour and then a small break and then again meditate it's stuff but when I run for the first time tailgate party And saw 700 people doing it.
(32:29):
I felt how am I different from any of them and why should I want to quit?
In any case once I started thinking I don't quit so I went through it and found it so helpful,
I was able to come to terms with death.
I stopped comparing myself constantly with my husband and putting myself down.
(32:53):
I said to myself that's an Appy pre cannot give oranges.
So if I want to be like Quenton I'll neither enjoy my good points and we'll keep focusing on my limitations.
I have found it so helpful that I have been so far for,
(33:14):
for meditation programs attending programs one weekend one and daily meditate for an hour.
So you said my spiritual journey,
I don't know if I can call it a spiritual journey but it's something which has helped me tremendously.
(33:34):
I'm still full of shit but my ship,
it doesn't smell so bad to me and I can be with,
I can be,
I can live with my ship and since I can live with it,
I emerge gently towards other people's shit.
Also,
so do in India if you do meditation or go to a group,
(33:58):
you claim you are a spiritual person.
I don't make any such claim and far from being a spiritual person.
I like to experiment with things which challenges which challenge me,
thank you.
I know sharing a very candid feedback on about your experience with the past now I might seriously practice a lot of personal meditation.
(34:24):
I went to a lot of camps now very specifically did mindfulness help you come to terms in life will be more of a be more effective as a manager.
I don't know,
I don't see a direct relation to being a more effective manager,
(34:46):
but I do see I'm more at peace with myself.
Um I'm still very reactive,
I'm not a good listener,
I'm judgmental all these but it's a little less and my life is more on an even keel.
(35:07):
I don't have ups and downs very much I don't hanker after things.
All relationships for example,
more as someone closes to me.
I love her and we enjoy each other.
We go for holidays,
we have fun together.
I laughed the most with her earlier when our holidays used to end,
(35:29):
I used to feel very sad today.
I'm not sad at all.
I feel ok.
It was wonderful.
But now if if it happens against one wonderful if it doesn't happen.
Yeah.
Coming to Yeah,
yeah,
yeah.
Thanks for finally I wanted to ask thank you so much.
(35:53):
Would you like to share any which thinks smile or happiness specifically it is related to construction and then with the students of a contessa of teachers teach for India or even the fellows of teach for India have become very hopeful.
(36:15):
You know sometimes uh You are a little depressed about the future of India and you'll see 22% of the people below poverty line.
When you see the dismal educational system,
when you see such poor spend on health and health and education with the poor spend has lots of corruption.
(36:38):
Also that goes with it.
But when I see these students and my fellows a smile and hope comes into my life,
I feel with more people.
And there are many other foundations like the Carnegie Foundation,
many which brings are doing excellent work.
(36:59):
So if more and more people join these movements,
I think India has a wonderful future.
And that brings a big hope and smile on my face.
Thank you for giving ample time and speaking so much at length on your personal journey both in business and social space.
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