Building a Business That Works For YOU with Dr. Shauna Pollard.

Ready to set your fee? You choose the dream, we'll do the math. Download our FREE Fun with Fees Calculator here 👉🏽 https://www.leaninmakebank.com/free

 

In this episode of The Money Sessions, LIMB grad Dr. Shauna Pollard shares her transformative journey from burnout and back pain in a high-earning group practice to creating a sustainable, creative, and values-aligned solo practice.  

A psychologist with ADHD, Dr. Shauna candidly discusses the toll that overwork took on her health and energy, and how moving across the country, leaving insurance behind, and setting premium fees allowed her to build a life and practice she loves.  

This conversation is a powerful reminder that private practice isn’t just about money—it’s about creating space for joy, purpose, and impact. 

If you’re a therapist dreaming of more spaciousness, alignment, and impact in your practice, this is a must-listen.

 

In this episode, Shauna shares: 

Why financial success at the cost of creativity, health, and personal freedom wasn’t enough;

The mindset shifts she made to leave her packed schedule of 30+ clients per week behind;

How leaning into her neurodivergence became a strength in designing her ideal business;

The challenges and empowerment that came with raising her fees to $250/session;

Why redefining accessibility changed how she serves her community—and herself.

 

Resources mentioned: 

LIMB Academy 

FWF Calculator 

Shauna’s Website 

Support for BIPOC Clinicians with ADHD 

More about Shauna: 

Dr. Shauna Pollard is a psychologist who helps high-achievers, ADHDers, and first-generation strivers navigate burnout, procrastination, and self-doubt so they can feel more balanced and engaged in their lives. She also hosts Notes Catchup and Networking Events and runs a group for BIPOC clinicians with ADHD.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Tiffany(00:01):

(00:01):
Welcome to today's episode of The Money Sessions. I'm your host, Tiffany McLain, and today we are talking to Dr. Shauna Pollard. She's gonna talk about her journey, going from working in a group practice and actually making really good money in this group practice, seeing 32 clients a week to where she now sees clients you know, anywhere between 10 and 14 at $250 per session, and the difference this has made in her life. Why did she leave her old position when she was making, I'm not gonna say the exact amount, but she was doing well, right? But you know what? She also notices that she was hiding. She was in pain. She had to get multiple chairs to get her back worked out, and she also had a DHD. And she kept it to herself because she felt like she didn't really wanna show up fully in the space, and she didn't really know how to show up in the space.
Tiffany(00:52):
She became aware that there was no room for her, so she decided to do things differently move states, reschedule, retool her whole schedule, and actually set up a practice that worked for her, for her mind, for her creativity, for her neuro neurodivergent gifts. As a black woman with a DHD, she realized it was up to her to actually set up a practice that accommodated how she wanted to live in the world, how she worked best. In this episode today, we're gonna hear Dr. Shauna's journey, what it took, what she has learned, and how she thinks about this idea of accessibility. You're gonna love it if you are curious, like, Hey, I might want something different. Maybe this, you know, I'm, I'm doing okay, I'm making good money, but what I don't have is time freedom. What I don't have is the creativity to think and play and write and dream. Then I encourage you to go to the show notes, download our fund with fee calculator, and actually set up, if I worked the hours I wanted to work, if I earned money that actually let me show up fully in my life with time freedom, with travel, with saving for my retirement. What does that look like? We'll we'll help you figure that out. Alright, let's dive in with Dr. Shauna. You're gonna love this episode.
Intro (02:08):
I think there's a difference between saying what your fee is and like fully committing to it. I believe in this like, law of attraction, but you also have to take action. I don't think I do enough to help other people, despite being, despite being a therapist, I was worried that I'd end up only serving wealthy people. You know, I was being so delusional about my actual cost, right? I wasn't actually paying myself a real salary. Now that I am charging more, I'm not lying to myself. This is ridiculous. Completely broken, man. If people knew who they were, I wouldn't do what she's doing. Like she's doing this.
Tiffany(02:51):
Alright, folks, we were just doing a deep dive on marketing strategy right before we jumped in. Dr. Shauna said something and I'm like, oh, let's really think about this from a marketing perspective. So let's, I'm gonna clear cleanse my palette. Take a deep breath and please tell us a little bit about you and your practice as it currently stands. Where are you located? Who do you see?
Shauna(03:12):
Yeah, so I'm a psychologist. I'm in Atlanta. But I have the side path. So I see people from more than 40 states, not all 40 at the same time, of course, I work with professionals with challenges, focusing, concentrating, staying on track. Many of my clients have been able to manage those symptoms for a large part of their life, which has enabled them to have a lot of success. But they hit a wall. So as the stresses mount they're not able to do as much as they used to or as personal challenges happen in their life. They end up needing a lot of help and not feeling like they have someone to turn to. So I work with a lot of high achievers. I work with a lot of first generation folks and I work with ADHDers. That's my specialty. I run a group for bipoc clinicians with a adhd. It's not a therapy group. It's more of a, a consultation group where we work on the backs in things involved in running a business and being a therapist. And then I also do talks and trainings for people around a variety of topics related to that. So I've di given talks about executive functioning. I've talked to private practices about supporting bipoc individuals with A DHD and given talks about procrastination. So that's the long short answer to what I do.
Tiffany(04:35):
, I love that procrastination. A lot of therapists are already like, Hmm, sign me up. Sign me up on that . Okay. So what we're gonna talk about today, how you changed your schedule and how that impacted your clinical work and how you showed up, you know, as a therapist. So take us back to you, you started working with us in may of 2021. So take us back to April. We're not gonna say like specific numbers, but you were doing well. You had, you were making an income that many therapists would say Shauna's made it. Like, what's the problem here? So take us back to April. Tell us a little bit about what your practice was looking like, what you were doing clinically. Paint us a picture.
Shauna(05:17):
Yeah. So I had been in private practice from, for about six years. At the point when I had joined L Limb, I was with the group practice. And so over the years, I had a master of, of full caseload. And I was seeing about six to eight therapy clients a day. I was working online because the pandemic was going on. And it's interesting 'cause at that point in my life, I was not, I had a big division between work and personal life. So I, I did not tell people about what I did. I had friends who like didn't know what I did until they happened to find me on Psychology Today. And I was like, oh, I'm, yeah, that's me. . I never talked about having an A DHD diagnosis. A a a selected few people and some friends, some family members knew, but that was not, that was about it.
Shauna(06:09):
I was doing some assessment, but I was mostly doing therapy. And so I, the reason why I wasn't talking about work was because I felt very overwhelmed. Mm. You know, I felt like I, there was so much demand for the, the services of like a psychologist and the type of work that I did. And I think, especially being a black psychologist, I was afraid to tell people what I did because I didn't want people to like, ask me questions or make assumptions about what I did. I was just like, when I'm off work, I don't want to be incognito. You don't need to know what I do. . You don't need to know any of this.
Tiffany(06:47):
Really. Interesting. So, what was not you, you had your personal life. Sounds like it was thriving. You had your work where you were doing very well financially. You had, you were in demand. What was the problem? Why would you decide like, I'm gonna make changes to this when it, from the outset side, it looks like it's working.
Shauna(07:04):
Yeah, I knew that I was overwhelmed. And the way that I actually had tried to solve it, the year of the pandemic was to go on like three international vacations a year. But Covid messed that up. Because I only went on one before the other two got canceled. And so I had to sit and be with myself. And if anyone knows a DHD that is hard to do. Like, we like to be on the go. We don't like a lot of downtime. And so I had to really sit and be still and reconnect with a part of myself that was like, this is not the life that I want to be living. It looks good from the outside. Like, I made it, I made it through the PhD program. I became successful in private practice. But, you know, I never wanted to be a full-time clinician.
Shauna(07:56):
I never wanted to do full-time clinical work. I was at a program that had a clinical and a community psychology angle. And I always liked that division of things where you're doing some clinical work, some research and something else. Hmm. And because I didn't go into academia, I ended up defaulting into doing clinical work every day, all day long. And I was like, this is not the life that I want to live for myself. I also wanted to live closer to family, which turned out to be really good. 'cause My father ended up getting sick and passing away. And because of the flexibility in my schedule that I had in limb, I was able to be there and be able to show up the way that I wanted to show up. So yes, I was making good money, but I was also working my butt off for it. And I was really, really stressed out, and I feel like something had to change.

(00:22):
Tiffany(08:53):
What year did your father pass?
Shauna(08:56):
Ooh 2022, I believe.
Tiffany(08:59):
Yeah, sorry to hear that. So 2021, that was later. And you were able to be there for him and be there with your family? Yes. 2021 and, and
Shauna(09:13):
No, you know what, it was May, 2023. It, it was May, 2023. It's so hard 'cause time just shifts. Yeah. You know, and it's just like, it's just like he's gone. So it's hard to remember that season. Yeah,
Tiffany(09:28):
Yeah. Yeah. almost two, almost almost two year. Two years. Yeah. I have to take a moment to let it settle.
Shauna(09:39):
I gave you a lot. Yeah. . Yeah.
Tiffany(09:44):
In the six years before you decided to make this change to your practice, when you're saying, I'm seeing, you know, I have a full caseload, it's not really what I wanted to be doing. Your your way to kind of bandaid over it was international travel, which again sounds like a dream to Wow. International travel. So what, how did you know it wasn't working? Like when you go into work and you're like, I gotta see these clients all day long. Or like, what were the signs that were telling you like, oh, this is not actually what I wanna be doing?
Shauna(10:16):
I had dreams of escape. Like I wanted to be a dating coach. I was like,
Tiffany(10:22):
. I had that dream at one point, . Wow. Mm-hmm .
Shauna(10:26):
Right? I was physically tired. I had a lot of fatigue mm-hmm . And I had back pain. I remember like needing like the stress lit, like one of those fancy chairs. And it took like two chairs to get the right one. So I had gone to like, pt, I, like, my body was not, you know, or I would come home from work and just collapse on the couch, you know, and just, I would just be drained, you know?
Tiffany(10:57):

(00:43):
I, if, if thank you for sharing that. I'm thinking, you know therapists right now are listening and feeling these same things and they're just saying like, this is just what it is. So, for you, I imagine for many years you were, you were experiencing fatigue collapsing on the couch, back pain. I know, I know that covid prevented you from going on international trips, which forced you to just be, you couldn't get that rel temporary relief. Is that what, what helped you realize like, oh, it doesn't have to be this way, or I don't have to be doing it like this. Like, what kind of woke you up from this day-to-day grind that everybody kind of does and doesn't even think about?
Shauna(11:36):
Yeah. I, I think I always was aware of like, at some point I might wanna move closer to family. And my mom is in Atlanta and my dad was in Florida mm-hmm . And so I knew I would wanna do it, but I was like, I'm not sure. Like, I don't know, maybe I'll do better help or something to, to get there. Use telehealth. I, you know. And then during the pandemic when everything switched to telehealth, that kind of was like, oh, like, you know, everything's telehealth, so now, like that's not an obstacle. And then the other thing that happened was like, I was actually busier during the pandemic because all of a sudden everybody could come in a hundred percent attendance, right? . So I feel like there was that point of being super busy. But I, and so then I was like, okay, like, you gotta do something.
Shauna(12:41):
You, you, you know, you gotta move. And I remember going home one year in the pandemic and sitting in my car, and I had actually gotten to the Atlanta airport and rented a car, and I was like, something said Atlanta like this, you need to come back to Atlanta. And so I just decided, like, I just decided, I went through all the paperwork processes, and I was like, I'm moving to Atlanta. And then I think shortly after that I ended up signing up for them because I needed to work on money stuff. And how did you know, what do you mean money stuff? I had trouble spending money. So even though I had started to make more money, it was still hard to pry the money out of my hands. And it, like, it was, there was so much resistance around that.
Shauna(13:34):
And so I remember talking about the program and I talked with my friends and they were like, yeah, you need that. And I was like, okay, that was loud. But and so I signed up and then there was a point in limb where I looked at the numbers and it just really became crystal clear to me that like, working for somebody else meant I had to work so many hours to have the, like seeing like 32 clients a week, you know, or more it meant that I had to work that much just to be able to take home what I took home. And then I started to see all the money like that I was paying someone else to manage, to practice. And I think there was a part of me that was like, Hmm, you know, like, I think I could manage myself.
Shauna(14:27):
Hmm. I think I could run my own business. You know, both of my parents have entrepreneurial energy. And so I was just like, I think I could do this Now. Was it as easy as I thought? No, it wasn't. But like, I'm doing it and like, I'm not, like, I'm probably a year or two away from that income. Like, I might hit it this year. I might hit it next year. I've been in solo practice for three years now. And so like, I am doing it. And I think for me, the other thing is that I wanted to build a business that felt sustainable, that felt like I could do, like, 'cause I used to say all the time, I don't have kids. But when I was in the, the, the practice, I used to say like, I could never have kids like this.
Shauna(15:14):
Like, I only have enough energy to show up and do my job and then go home. Mm-Hmm. And so I felt like I wanted to build a business that could go the distance that I could do for another 20, 30, 40, 50 years and, and just, you know, live a life as a psychologist. I also, one of the motivations was I also wanted to use all of the skills that I had as a psychologist. So, so to me, therapy was one skill, but like giving talks I like to create things. So I love the aspect of like, marketing, of like tracking data. So I always tell people I was a researcher first before anything else. And that has served me very well in my business. And it serves me well in my practice doing therapy. But it served me very well as a business owner. 'cause I love to track trends. I love to tweak questionnaires, so they ask the right kind of questions. My intake forms, I like to like gather data on like, what's working, what's not working. Like the nerd in me loves all of those things. And so I felt like doing therapy. I wasn't using the full range of skills that I had trained during those years, and now I absolutely feel like I'm using those skills.
Tiffany(16:32):
You, I love it. Even the, even as you're talking about the creativity, there are, there are some therapists who want to sit with six clients a day, four days a week. And that just fills in with life. That's a small percentage. So many therapists love the clinical work, but part of what they love is seeing a client then being able to think about it and then create ideas about it, then write about those ideas, then go bring those ideas to other people to think together, like collaborate and create and talk. Like that's actually the life. You said when you were talking about this, I got chills, you said, I wanted to build a practice that could go the distance. And you said, live a life. Live a life. So when you were doing this Yes. You know, seeing full 32 clients a week, what was, in what ways were you not living? In what ways were you not able to show up for your own life?
Shauna(17:20):
I mean, one way I feel like I can think about it the other way. Yeah. Like, I feel like I'm much more creative now. And I get like what you just said before. So I gave a talk and in prepping for that talk, I'm looking through the research, I'm talking, I called the researcher and talked to her about her findings. I'm telling people like, hey, like the, you know, so I feel like I'm a better clinician because after I do the talks, I show the slides to my clients and I'm like, is this, you know, does this resonate with what you're seeing? They're like, oh yeah, like, send me the slides so I could send a so and so. Or I give the talk at an organization that I'm a part of. And then days later people are like, that was a good talk.
Shauna(18:04):
It really helped me. You know, I'm implementing these things or here's what I do. So I feel like I really, what's different now is I'm bringing myself into the work more. I do more self-disclosure. Almost all of my clients know that I have a DHD now. Like and I can, I talk more about like, so here's what I'm thinking, or here's something that I've tried, I tell people about, like, I've tried medication. Like, here's what's helpful about it. Here's where you might have challenges. So I feel like going through the process of starting my own practice, of niching, of picking a niche that's related to my life has allowed me to bring more of myself into the work and more of my passion into the work. Like, I can spend hours researching something because it's also me search, and I can tell people that. I don't have to say like, like, you know, I just happen to know a lot about this topic. And then I also do that more like now people talk to me all the time when I'm not at work about what I do. And so I don't know that that directly answer your
Tiffany(19:15):
Question, .
Shauna(19:15):
Yeah. But I feel like I get to bring my creativity into the space. I get to self disclose more. I get to use the data that's more than just, like, I've always not trusted everything that I learn or everything that I hear. I always look at it critically. And so I read research studies, but then I, you know, I take it back to people. I'm like, what do you think about this? Is this what you're experiencing? Is this what you're seeing? Because I did evidence, I was the evidence-based postdoc. And so I use evidence-based techniques, but I'm also not foolish enough to think that those are the only techniques that are valid and valuable. And so I think I get to create a different kind of evidence based as a, as a, you know, as a therapist that does more than just therapy.

(01:04):
Tiffany(20:11):
I love how you're, you're going to find the evidence and bringing it back to like the people and like engaging and like really in a dialogue with what the research has to say, what the science have to say. How does this show, how does this play out in groups? How does this play out wi with my one-to-one therapy clients? How does it play out in my own life? Like very experiential. Yes. In all kind of ways. Yes. So even as you're talking, you said, I don't know if I've answered your question, but you have like the, like the, you who was seeing 32 clients a week and having to switch up your chairs because your back was hurting in NOT and collapsing on the couch and didn't even tell people what you did because you don't want them asking you any questions outside of work Yes. To now where you actually able to bring your full self into the space. You're talking about what you do, you're talking about, I'm getting goosebumps. You're talking about your creative ideas with your clients, with, with groups where you're doing speeches. Probably your friends now know, Hey, this is what you do. Like you can bring yourself in a way that you couldn't before.
Shauna(20:58):
Yes. Yeah,
Tiffany(21:01):
Absolutely. Let's get down to, we're gonna get down to brass tax in 20, what was it, 20 April, 2021. Where were you living by the way, before you moved to Atlanta?
Shauna(21:10):
I was in Maryland.
Tiffany(21:11):
Oh,
Shauna(21:11):
Maryland. I was in Maryland. So I was sort of between Baltimore and dc. I was actually living in a place called Laurel, Maryland, but I worked at multiple practices. So I had really worked throughout the state of Maryland from Baltimore down to Silver Spring. So,
Tiffany(21:28):
Okay, so folks, I don't know that region. I was just talking to Jen Fette, who was talking about being right in that kind of Baltimore DC area. Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm. Maryland. when you worked for a group practice and you were doing well, how much did you make procession? I
Shauna(21:42):
Don't know. I, I, I don't know what the, so it was an insurance based practice, uhhuh, and we took a range of insurances. So yeah, I tell people, I was like don't do like me. I made like 16 changes. Like I got off insurance, I left a crew practice, I moved stakes, all of this. But yeah, so I was taking insurance. I would guess the rate maybe was like 1 55 and 1 65, something like that. And then
Tiffany(22:06):
You got a cut of that 'cause it, and then I cut of managing, okay, so folks, I want you to pay attention. Shana was like, I don't even know exactly what I'm making when I I the, all of that was being handled for you. I love what you said up here. Yes. By the way, group practices serve a function. They were, they were doing the organizational functioning on your behalf. The bringing in people, the doing the paperwork. You at some point said, I'm ready to step into, absolutely. I'm gonna actually handle this myself and get that extra money that, that I'm paying now I'm outsourcing to someone else. This kind of thinking and organizational work. I'm ready to be responsible for running my own business.
Shauna(22:41):
That's such a good point. Because I think one of the reasons I've done well is because I spent those six years working for somebody else. And in that time, all I had to do was show up and do therapy. So I'm very grateful to that time. And I think I knew that time was going to end. I knew I wasn't going to do that forever, but for that period of my life, that is what I needed. I needed to just show up, do clinical work, and go home. And that allowed me to hone my clinical style. And then I reached a point where I was like, you know what? I'm, I think it is kind of like a kid on a, on a tricycle, right? I'm ready to take the train wheels off and like just ride.
Tiffany(23:23):

(01:25):
Hmm. I love when we talk about this a season when people listen, if they listen to me talk or the money sessions, they might have the idea that I'm like, well, I think insurance is pretty. But if we think about like, but there's a time like group practice, amazing insurance. There's a season of our, a lot of therapists lives where that is needed as we're getting our sea legs and learning. Yeah. And for some people, they actually want that for their whole practice. They have other things going on. They do not want to take on that. Speaking about executive functioning, they don't wanna take that on. But for other folks, there may come a point, like for you where you are like, I, I'm ready to step into this now. I have the internal resources, the bandwidth, the social support, the community to actually figure this thing out, which takes work to figure this kind of stuff out.
Shauna(24:03):
I agree. And I think the community was a hundred percent critical. So I leaned hard into li I have, I might be the Lim, MVP outside of like people who have like, you know, been the coach, the coaches or the folks that you've hired. Because I, I think you
Tiffany(24:19):
Come back and be a mentor is what you're telling me right now. .
Shauna(24:22):
I know I'm a, I've been a part of at least five li limb groups I've networked. I've been like, and that has been central to my success. It's been absolutely central because when I struggle with my mindset, those folks help get me back on track. You know, they've given me resources in terms of like, here's a, a an admin assistant you, you might wanna work with. Or they've sent me fo I've gotten a referral from my bipoc group from someone in li I've got, you know, so it has been a wonderful network for me. I need to see people who are doing this private practice thing, because that was the scariest part for me was going private pay. Because I hadn't really thought about that before I joined Lim. But then I think the math and like other factors just made it make more sense, especially if I didn't want to do full-time clinical work. And I didn't need to see like 20 to 30 clients. It didn't make sense for me personally to get involved with insurance mm-hmm . And so I think the community has been a hundred percent hands down, like a crucial component of my success.
Tiffany(25:38):
The community is amazing. They're all over all these satellite people all over the country having their groups. So for folks who are listening, like, okay, this sounds great, Dr. Pollard, you did all this stuff, what are you charging now?
Shauna(25:51):
Two 50 session?
Tiffany(25:52):
Two 50, mm-hmm .
Shauna(25:54):
Per session for therapy sessions. Yes.
Tiffany(25:56):
How many people do you see a week at that?
Shauna(25:59):
I see. Okay. So I would say at the two 50 rate, probably six to 10, depending on the week. I also have a, one of the venture capital backed EAPs that I work with. And I probably have two to three clients a week from there.
Tiffany(26:21):
So you could see anywhere between eight to 13 people a week in, in your one-to-one private practice?

(01:46):
Shauna(26:26):
Yeah. It's probably more like eight to 16. Okay. depending on the
Tiffany(26:33):
Season. So we've talked a lot about who you were before and who you are after. We have some hard numbers, two 50. There are people who maybe who actually one woman in particular sent me a dm. We've never worked with her. And she was like, this all sounds good, this cash pay stuff. But in this current environment, I think you could have done this a couple of years ago, but I don't think it's possible now you're doing it. What would you say to a therapist who's like, it's just people, it can't be done anymore. What do you say?
Shauna(27:07):
Yeah. Here's what I would say. I would say, you don't know until you try. And so I'm more of a fiscally conservative person. So when I did li I had money saved up that I, like, I had saved up money during the pandemic to put a down payment on a new car. And I had saved up money, all the money I wasn't paying on my studio loans. And I was planning to like pay that back. All of that money went either into the business or floating me during like, the slow seasons of the business. So I never want to delude people and tell them like, this is easy. It can just happen for you. I think it's a lot of work. I think the higher your price point, the better your marketing game has to be. And I know everybody doesn't have that like motivation, energy drive. But if you want it bad enough and you're willing to put in the work to learn how to market, to learn how to really be a business person as well as a therapist, you could try it out and see what happens. Mm-Hmm .
Tiffany(28:13):
Just try.
Shauna(28:14):
And that's been my sort of thing. 'cause I was like, I mean, if it doesn't work, I'll just go back to insurance. Yes, that's right. And I've had those moments where I'm like, is now the time to go back to insurance? And then there's always this little voice to me that's like, no, we're like this very stubborn person that's like, no, we're gonna keep trying because I, I will go through, have you done all that you could do to make this business work? And the answer is always no. Mm-Hmm. And so then I'm like, all right, back to the drawing board. So yeah. To someone who says it's not possible, I mean, like, I guess you have to try it and see. Mm-Hmm.
Tiffany(28:51):
I, I'll also say, I just gotta who, someone, someone emailed me, I think one of our graduates and said, oh, I think a current student. And they said I think it's a grad. They got off all insurance panels three years ago, and they just got a $90 claw back, $92 claw back. So I'm like, insurance is still coming three years later and just automatically deducting things from their bank account because they can. So it's like the, so I have the fantasy, some dating coach hasn't been in my mind for a while, but sometimes I'm like, I gotta, what else can we do? And it's like, no matter what you do, it's gonna be, someone's gonna be hard about it. So we gotta choose which hard do we want the hard of insurance companies who are gonna be dictating and we see 32 clients a week?
Tiffany(29:35):
Or do we want the hard that you have of a creative fulfilled life, seeing all the clients who are ideal, being able to do talks and speeches. And sometimes you have a little bit of like, revenue downturn and you gotta figure out how to bring it up. Yeah. They're both hard. But the question is like, in the, in the totality of a life, in the totality of what one option brings versus the other, which hard do we want? And I hear you saying, I want the hard of, I want the hard, that means I have to tolerate some insecurity sometimes and learn a new marketing thing and grow, but also comes with creativity and connection and the ability to be diversified in the kind of offerings I'm, I'm doing and actually be able to show up fully for my clients in a different kind of way.
Shauna(30:12):
I agree. I, I think it's a choose your heart. I mean, hmm. I still deal with insurance companies. I've been audited you know, and passed both times. But, you know so it's choose your heart. And so everybody has to decide what's right for them. And I like where I'm at right now. I, I think for me, it helps the whole, like if I ever want to do something different, I can do something different. But I'd rather try it out and see what it feels like and then make a decision, an informed decision as opposed to being like, oh, you know I'm just, I don't think it's possible for me.
Tiffany(30:59):
How did you, speaking of kind of thinking about being fiscally conservative some people are like, I don't care. Jump throw caution to the win. Right. I'm gonna pay for something. What made you say, I'm gonna pay $2,000 for the lean in, make Big academy for people can't see Shauna. She's like, oh, right now for your face. Yeah. That's a big move for anyone. And especially if you're fiscally conservative. Why did you do that?
Shauna(31:21):
Yeah. it was hard. It was very hard. And that's where my friends had to nudge me. I think Fee week helped. I did fee week and I remember on the call at the end somebody was like, why do we need you to do this? Yes. Like, and I liked your answer 'cause you were just like, you don't, you can do it on, on your own. And you may have said something else inspirational after that. But I think it sparked the idea of like why not get help? Why not get support around doing this? So I still have, anytime I have to spend more than $2,000 on something professional, I still cry. Not like actual tears, but like more internally. But it, it is very hard for me to like, give up the money. But it, it felt like a good value and I felt like it was a good value in terms of like, I like the, like the handouts, like the paper you had, I don't know what you would call it, but like the thing, the modules that you had us do where we're answering questions, were trying things like the CBT in me.
Shauna(32:29):

(02:07):
Like, like, like that there was like written things and things to trial and, and, and exposure therapy all in the mix. But yeah, in terms of what made me spend the, the 2K, like, I think it just, you know, what might have happened is I had done a stock market investment group with some folks before that. And I was like, man, I'm the brokest one here. Like, I have the most education and I'm the brokest one here. Like, I don't like this. And I wasn't broke, but like, I wasn't making as much as everybody else. And I think that had been a theme, like everyone I knew was making more money than I was. Yeah. And so I knew like that there was some kind of like, something going on that was like getting in the way. It's not that I wasn't capable or that I didn't have the skillset, you know, that there was something getting in the way. So I think all of those things combined kind of pushed me to pay the 2000. But it was, it felt like very uncomfortable when I did it.
Tiffany(33:32):
I, I there's so much that you just said that I love. And this last piece I'll emphasize. We therapists, especially of a certain age, look around, we have so much education, so much work. We've done so many hours put in lifetimes of work. And then we look around and see lawyers, our lawyer friends, our doctor friends, our tech friends who are just commanding making bank like ex are their, their take home, their income far exceeds so many clinicians. And we are just like willing to accept, oh, 60 I making 67,000. Well, meanwhile, people are buying homes and putting their kids to private school and just build saving for retirement. Vacationing. Why don't, we're professionals with advanced degrees. Why are we accepting low salary and like being lower middle class bear scraping by. Don't get any start on that. Here's what we're gonna do the last few minutes.
Tiffany(34:23):
I do want, I would love to have you take a moment to speak to you brought up some of your identities. You're a black woman, you are A DHD. There are women listening right now, women of color maybe they have an A DHD diagnosis or a neurodivergent in some way. And they're saying to themselves, oh, be because I'm a black, black woman. I'm not even just black. I'm not, I'm black and I'm a black woman and I'm A DHD. Like, I can't do this. Premium feed practice is for rich white men who are just, you know, what, what would you say to them?
Shauna(34:57):
I would say making money is an accommodation. So I mean, if you think about it as a DH ds, we pay the A DH ADHD tax, you know, we lose stuff. We have to spend money on all these health things. Mm-Hmm . So it costs a lot more to have a DHD. Right. so we need to make more to, to compensate for that. So that's one thing that I would say. I would say running your own bus. There's a lot of a DHD entrepreneurs out there, like a lot of us. And so often entrepreneurship allows us the freedom and the flexibility to work at our own pace. I feel like when I worked in other organizations, I'm working to other people's metrics, right? Like, you need to see this many people. You know, I, I have the ability now to manage my energy and to titrate that up or down if I knew to, right?
Shauna(35:52):
So like when my dad was sick, I could you know, take off a day and then go fly down to like, spend time with him. I could take extra time to like answer phone calls from the family or help arrange medical appointments. I can, if I feel like I'm full, I can stop taking clients. When I feel better or feel more energized, I can add more clients. So I feel like instead of waiting for someone else to give me accommodations, I can provide myself accommodations. I bought a chair that I like. I have my desk set up in a way that, you know, supports me. I use the EHR that I like, I opt, I can really optimize everything in my business. Whereas when I'm working for somebody else, I'm only limited to the systems that they provide. So I feel like as a neurodivergent entrepreneur, I really get to take control of how I manage my energy, how I manage my time when I want to use my hyper focus to read research articles on the weekends.
Shauna(36:59):
Right. and then during the daytime go and like, go, go grocery shopping. 'cause I don't want to go when everybody else is there. Right. like I like Trader Joe's, but we are not going to Trader Joe's on the weekends. Okay. We like to go in the middle of the week. So it's thinking about that as a black woman, I do feel like it has been challenging as a black woman. Yeah. I feel like the hardest part, honestly, in the beginning was having to say no to so many people. And I feel myself getting emotional because I feel like there's this sense of like needing to there's so few of us and the community really. There's so many people who want a black therapist and, and me as a psychologist, so many people who want a black psychologist that there's a bigger need than I can meet.
Shauna(37:48):
And so it, like, I still feel the pain of not being able to meet that need. But I also am aware at a, at, at a lot of levels that I can't, I can't meet the need on my own and I certainly can't meet it through individual therapy. And one thing I've struggled with is accessibility and the feeling that, like me not taking insurance makes me less accessible over the year. It, it's still a battle. It's not like a hundred percent resolved. But it, I get triggered by it less so. But two thoughts have come up over the years. One is when I was accessible to everybody else, I wasn't as accessible to me. Yeah. Right. and I know a lot of society trains us to be that way. But you know, when I'm out, down and outs who's going to pick me up, right?
Shauna(38:40):
I'm fully responsible for that. The other thing is, what do we mean by accessibility? And folks have challenged me on this. So I've evolved over time. Like when I, at that time, you ask like, where was I at April, 2021? I was not taking any new clients because I was full. I was saturated. I had my old clients, the old clients who were returning. I probably only took one or two clients during the pandemic. So I was not accessible to a whole lot of people mm-hmm . But I was very accessible to the people to about 30 to 50 people. Right now, I create content. I have a DHD resource lists that like I post on LinkedIn, like I am accessible to a lot more people. But it doesn't in ways that are ways that work for my own energy. And, and, and what I can give.
Shauna(39:37):
And then because I charge high prices, because I'm premium fee clients don't stay forever. And in, and in a lot of ways that's fine, right? Some do. But there's a lot more turnover. So in a way that makes me more accessible to more people. And then I can, you know, so, so I think my idea of accessibility change, and I think it actually fits with my ethos being a community psychologist that like, I get to take therapy, the therapy speak, and then therapy ideas outside of the therapy room and share that stuff with people who will never, ever go to therapy. Right. People who are d iys, people who have had bad experiences with therapists and people who just don't really need therapy to get back on track. So I feel like my sense, my meaning of what accessibility is has shifted. And I also get to support therapists. Mm-Hmm . And those therapists support people. So I think instead of being accessible to people on a individual therapy in an individual therapy capacity, I get to really broaden all of the ways that I get to be accessible to a larger audience.
Tiffany(40:48):
I love this. I, I I, I'm gonna I'm even thinking about when you said I was accessible to 30 to 50 people, I'm like, you were not accessible when you were burnt out and overwhelmed. You were absolutely not access. They could come in and see you when you got some kettle chips crumbs on your teeth and you're wishing you could be in the bathroom and dreaming about being a dating coach. You actually weren't. Versus now you can actually show up fully for them. Right. And I would also say even if you could show up fully for those 50 people, which you could not, but let's say you could, that's 50 people. And that doesn't solve the fact that there are not black women psychologists, there are not enough. So now, and if, and if anyone's in, in school undergrad and looking at you, then they're like, well, I don't want that. I don't want that life. Whereas now they see abundant, powerful, well resourced, well resourced. If you go out and talk to some, some college undergrads or bachelor degree people and they can see that like black, I could be this black woman psychologist. You can actually allow other people to be like, that's the path I wanna take. Because you're full and abundant and out there speaking and talking. That actually provides more accessibility in the long run than you burnt out C 50 people. Kind of. Right.
Shauna(41:54):
Yeah. And, and that's a really good point because, you know, someone asked me like, are you the same clinician you were back then? And I was like, Ooh, that's an interesting question. 'cause I feel like I was, but I mean now I'm doing brain spotting, you know, now I am integrating the research back into my work. And I was like, Shauna, why haven't you been looking at the research? I was like, girl, you didn't have time. You know, you didn't have time. Reading research takes a lot of time. You didn't have time or energy. And so I feel like yeah, I am, I'm a different clinician in some ways. And the, the level, I'd rather see a couple of people, and maybe this is a neurodivergent thing, maybe it's not, but a couple of people and go deep. Yes. Really, really, really deep, you know, with those people. That's why I've liked like intensive two hour sessions. Right? then see somebody every week for four years, for eight years on end. I'd rather you come for a stretch, let's hit it hard. And then you go off, live your life, come back. If you need something more, we'll give you, you know, we'll, we'll push you to the next level. That's my ideal. Like, and I know psychoanalysis is, is not that, but like, that's my preference is to go deep, give you what you need, and then go off and do great things.

(02:28):
Tiffany(43:16):
Is your bipoc group virtual?
Shauna(43:18):
It is virtual, yeah. Who,
Tiffany(43:19):
Who's that for?
Shauna(43:21):
So it's for clinicians with a DHD. So it's opened up really to anyone in the world. 'cause It's not a therapy group. Mm-Hmm . And so it actually has evolved. When, when it started, it was a six week, it was, it was six weeks, it was cohort based. And then folks have said like, we wanna keep going, you know, which makes sense. I mean, a DH ADHD is a chronic Yeah. Condition. and so then I organized like another six weeks. And then some folks were like, we, we keep going. So I now, I have a, a small group and we're meeting biweekly every month, but we just started this month. So we're gonna, I'm just gonna test that out. So I think what I'm gonna do going forward, and again, this is still evolving like everything in my business, but I think what I'm gonna do going forward is if folks want to join the ongoing group, they just need to do like a two hour intensive or come for like two hours of individual stuff to get them kind of caught up with like what the six week group talks about.
Shauna(44:21):
And then they can go into the ongoing group. And then I think I am gonna run a cohort in September just kind of testing out, like that's, that's the researcher in me. I'm like, which model works best? Mm-Hmm . Like, do we do a long-term group? Do we do a short, short cohort group? I'm not sure. So that's sort of where I'm landing with that. But yeah, any, any therapist any therapist anywhere who's Bipoc and has a DHD. And then I also have run events called notes and networking events, which are open to anyone regardless of diagnosis who's bipoc. And then we focus on documentation catching up, but doing it in a way that like soothes the nervous system. Like we do a little networking, a little chitchat, gives some Q and a, and then we do like a co-working session. And so folks who are part of my groups, they always get to come back for free to the notes and networking events. And so that's one of the things I'm doing, which is fun. 'cause It actually ends up being longitudinal data because people will message me like weeks or months later, they're like, Hey, I'm actually good. I got what I need and now I'm, I'm back on track with documentation and other folks keep coming back. So I get to target, okay, like where, where are you getting stuck? Or what did I need to add? Or what could I do to kind of help you, you know, get more on track with that. So yeah,
Tiffany(45:38):
I love your data brain folks who are listening. If you're like, oh, I need what I need what Shaath has I'm a DHD, I'm bipoc, I feel like I want a different kinda life. Like maybe you're seeing 32 clients a week, maybe you feel like ba I'm doing okay work, but I'm burnt out. But because of my like executive functioning issues, I don't know, get in this group. How can they find you? How can they find out more about you? So I
Shauna(46:01):
Am in many places. I am on LinkedIn by my full name Shauna Pollard. I am on Instagram at Dr. Shauna P respond to I check my own accounts for those two. So it'll always be me responding. I have a website www.drspcpllc.com. And then if you want to email me directly, I always like to give out my admin email. I get to see all those emails, but I just, you know, for spammer, I don't like to put out my actual email, but it's admin at DRS pllc and if you direct it to me, it will get to me. So
Tiffany(46:46):
[e-mail]. Yep. Beautiful. Dr. Shauna, thank you folks. Connect, reach out. You can already see the, the resource, the resources that Shauna has, the resource that Shauna is, and you can get some data. You're not gonna be getting any fluff and stuff. You're gonna get real evidence-based and experience-based help as you move on. Thank you so much. Bye.
Outro (47:13):
All right. Whatever you're doing, I want you to pause. If you're driving, pull over. If you're chopping a carrot, put that knife away. If you're making sweet Love to a woman, Well, I mean that's, that's, That's kind of flattering in a weird way. Huh. You can go, you can just go ahead and you can keep doing that. But for the rest of you, if you learn even just one thing of value today, please share this episode with even just one therapist who can benefit from the message. Here's how, if you're listening on iTunes, click on the episode and you'll see a small purple circle with three dots. Click on those dots and you're gonna see the option to share at the bottom of the list. Click that, and you can just go ahead and share it on Facebook, or you can even just text it to one therapist who you know needs to hear it. If you're listening on Stitcher, just tap the triangle icon on the upper right corner. It's next to the menu that displays your upcoming playlist. You'll see the option to share the episode you're currently listening to Right on Facebook. Look, it's time to get the word out. We gotta spread the message. Thank you so much, and we'll join each other again soon.