From $130 to $385 Cash Pay: How Olethea Turned Her Business into Her Rich Auntie.

Ready to set your fee? You choose the dream, we'll do the math. Download our FREE Fun with Fees Calculator here 👉🏽 https://www.leaninmakebank.com/free

 

In this episode, we’re back with powerhouse Canadian therapist and coach Olethea Pimenta, who went from undercharging at $130 to confidently billing $385 per session—up to three times a week, all cash-pay. 

She’s living proof that your business can love you back. 

Olethea breaks down the mindset, money work, and structural shifts it took to prioritize her own joy, rest, and parenting while delivering premium, transformational therapy in a socialized healthcare system. 

This episode is packed with wisdom and a hell of a reframe: your business should be a nourishing relationship, not a hustle for survival.

 

In this episode, Olethea shares: 

Why growing up without resources led her to recreate scarcity in her business—and how she rewired that;

How she replaced burnout and survival-mode with a business that feels like a rich auntie (yes please);

The massive shifts she made after having her daughter, including hiring a nanny and a night doula;

What it takes to break free from the collective therapist scarcity story—and why her business now funds freedom, not fear;

Her signature question to check your business attachment style: “Does your business love you back?”

 

Resources mentioned: 

LIMB Academy 

FWF Calculator 

Olethea’s Website 

Olethea’s Instagram

 

More about Olethea:

Olethea Pimenta is a psychotherapist and business coach specializing in helping owners run profitable businesses without burnout. Olethea specializes in deconstructing imposter syndrome, addressing high-functioning anxiety, and digging deeper into money trauma. Using trauma-informed practices, she helps therapists create a premium fee practices that refines their niche to go beyond their clinical work. If you're feeling stuck in your money or you need to make changes she can help you get paid. https://oletheap.com

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Tiffany(00:00):

(00:01):
What does it take to go from anxiously and insecurely charging $130 per session to confidently charging $385 per session with clients who are working with you? Not one, not two, but up to three times per week at that rate. Cash pay. And what does it take to do this as a woman, as a woman of color, as a woman who comes from poverty, as a woman who's living and working in Canada, a place where the expectation is that healthcare is paid for because it's a socialized country. What does it take to charge $385 per session under all of these conditions? This is what we're gonna talk about today. This conversation is gonna blow your mind. We're talking with Olethea Pimenta. We first interviewed her back in 2019, I believe Oletha was one of our earlier students. We worked with her back in 2018.
Tiffany(00:56):
We interviewed her back then, and now you're gonna hear at that time when we worked with her, she had a six month old. That kiddo is now seven years old. So what is life like six and a half years after really diving in and doing your deep money work? In this episode, you are going to hear, Athia is going to talk about the decision she made when she had her second child, to have her husband be the one to stay home and take care of the kids so she could prioritize her career, to hire a nanny, to hire a night doula, to get help with cooking and cleaning so she could surely fully show up for her children and change the generational pattern of the emotional neglect and absence that simply comes from being under-resourced as a parent, having too much work to do, having too little money, and really having to the, the inability to show up in our children's life with joy.
Tiffany(01:49):
She's like, I'm not doing that anymore. So what did it take? She talks about how she had to develop a different relationship, a different attachment to her business. She's gonna walk us through that. She's gonna do a little deep dive with Tiffany. She's gonna diagnose what age developmentally I am at in relation to my business. Cough. you're gonna be . I don't know. You might find that part pleasurable. I find it embarrassing. Filled with shame. We're gonna talk about that. She's gonna ask you deep tough questions about how you're relating to your business, what's working for you and what isn't. And she's gonna talk about the different changes she's made to her business structure to continue having a business that takes care of her. She treats her business like her rich auntie or her rich uncle. A best friend who provides for her, who checks in with her, who asks, how are you?
Tiffany(02:36):
If you wanna understand how to have a business that actually shows up for you versus you giving and overwhelmed and struggling and financially strapped, you are going to love this episode. By the way, my name is Tiffany McLain. I'm the founder of Lean and Make Bank, where we help clinicians actually charge premium fees, actually charge for the true value of this transformational services we provide to our clients. For so long, most therapists, we undercharge, we work so hard, and we're not actually aware of what does it cost to run a business that truly allows us to help our clients grow and change and transform. If you're curious about the true cost of doing the work you're doing, I encourage you to just go to the show notes underneath this podcast, however you're listening. Download our fund with fee calculator. You put in the, you put in the dream. We're gonna do the math and help you understand what you really need to be charging in order to truly show up for your clients, for your children, for yourself, with presence of mind, ease, freedom, and financial abundance. Go get that calculator below. Now folks. Be ready for a treat. We are gonna dive in here from Moia. It's gonna be inspiring surprising, challenging. I know you, you love all of that. Let us dive in.
Intro (04:02):
I think there's a difference between saying what your fee is and like fully committing to it. I believe in this like law of attraction, but you also have to take action. I don't think I do enough to help other people despite being, despite being a therapist, I was worried that I'd end up only serving wealthy people. You know, I was being so delusional about my actual cost, right? I wasn't actually paying myself a real salary. Now that I am charging more, I'm not lying to myself. This is ridiculous. Completely broke, man. If people knew who they were, I wanna do what she's doing. Like she's doing this.
Tiffany(04:45):
Alright, folks, you are in for a treat. I'm so excited for this conversation. We're actually starting it like four hours late, , because Olethea and I were just talking and catching up after so many years. So we're gonna jump to it. Olethea. Let's start by telling folks a little bit about you and your practice as it now stands.
Olethea(05:02):
Sure. Hey, Tiffany. Okay. This is me. Olethea. A therapist. I am really excited to be on here because every time I come on, I tell people how I'm doing my practice, and then people are like, Hey, can you help me do that? So in 2018, I came on and I was like, I'm fully virtual. Everybody's like, Hey, can you help me do that? And then I was like, I'm doing three weeks on the last week off and it's nine 90. People are like, Hey, can you help me do that? And now again, like, it just keeps evolving. Now I do walk and talk therapy where people call me and I talk to them, and we walk and talk because the biggest thing for therapists is that they're tired of sitting and everybody's tired of being stuck in front of Zoom. So I feel like, you know, this is the change that I needed to make. And I still practice how I did before. I see people more than one time. I work with, you know, big, big trauma. I work somatically, I like to work quickly to like get people past their money stuff, their, you know, all of their goals and dreams. So I love working with all the big goals and dreams. So yeah, that is my, my practice. And yeah, I've really changed a lot around my, like, attachment to my business.
Tiffany(06:15):
Interesting. We are gonna get to that. And you're in Canada?
Olethea(06:18):
I am.
Tiffany(06:20):
So you are one of our Canadian therapists who also just like I love hearing how you experiment with what works best for you and your body. So back, you were doing virtual back before it was cool before anyone else. And I remember you coming in and say, Tiffany, I wanna charge more money, but I wanna do it virtually. Is that possible? And then like three years later, everybody's getting on your train ,
Olethea(06:42):
And you just

(00:22):
Tiffany(06:42):
Walk and talk like on the phone, because you're right, people are sick of Zoom and you're like, people
Olethea(06:46):
Are sick of Zoom. Well, you know, it's funny, it's really funny, right? Because like, you know, like, look, when I heard your podcast, my daughter was like six months old. She was a baby. Right now she's seven. So, you know, it has been some time since I've been doing this and I can have that attachment to my business that I can be like, you know, business, I need this. Right? Because I was like, I couldn't fit in enough exercise no matter how much I'm getting to the pool or Pilates. And I was like, you know, what do people who are been practicing for so long, what are they complaining about? They're like complaining about sitting, they're complaining about not being able to move enough. And I was like, you know, if it's good for me, it's gonna be good for the clients. And now my clients are like, they walk, you know, again, I love, this is the thing that I feel like has been the biggest shift since doing the program with you, is that I love doing therapy more now than when I first started.
Olethea(07:33):
And I already love therapy, right? And I work with a lot of burnt out therapists and I coach them and I'm like, you know what? Like, we are going to do this, and then you will actually love therapy. Even though they come to me and say like, Hey, can you help me? Not like, I wanna do more than just therapy. And I'm like, yeah, great, but let's optimize therapy first and then let's do the other thing. So yeah. You know, like I felt like I trained a lot of people on things, you know, that was accidental. That was lucky being able to do virtual. But you know, one of the other things too, Tiffany, is like, you know, when I had first heard about you and saw what you were doing, I kind of felt like, you know, probably at some point all of this will already like, start happening even where I am, even in Toronto, right?
Olethea(08:12):
Like, it'll just become the norm. That people are charging more, that people understand what it means to, you know, if you are working with a master's degree, I have to, who's counting? But you know, I, I'm, I'm a hardcore academic. Okay? Just I, that's fine, that's fine. My intellectual academic, that's just me. I own it. If you have this level of education, like, you know, what do you need to pay yourself and what would you pay paid in the market? Not working or someone is exploiting you, but if you were being paid for your skillset, is that gonna be within the one 20 or one 50 range? And then you need to be able to pay that to yourself in your business, right? And I kind of thought that, okay, over time and naturally this will trickle down and everybody will realize this. It'll make sense in our industry. Okay, that didn't happen ,
Tiffany(09:06):
But it's not, it's not really happening. Olathe
Olethea(09:09):
No, it never happened because I honestly felt like, you know, at that point I was like, okay, I'm gonna do this program. 'cause You know, I was, I always think like, you know, if I get even one idea, right? That's like a thousand dollars takeaway. So I was like, let's do this and that'll be the thousand dollar takeaway. But I honestly felt like, you know, at some point this will just be so common knowledge that, you know, if you are running your own business, that is a bespoke business. And that means that you have to like, you know, pay for all of the things your sick leave your children's sick, leave your children's, blah, blah, blah, your stuff. You know? And I think that that hasn't really happened. And sometimes, you know, I'm always cautious as a business owner talking about how much money we make. You know, there's so many ways in which people can get scammed from people talking about, I run an online business where I make multiple six figures join me. Right? And I always feel like, I think we need to talk about how much we make and how we pay ourselves. Because for us it's like pay transparency. Yes.
Tiffany(10:14):
So folks listening are already like, ethias phenomenal. I love her. But let's say, and you are, and you were phenomenal in 2018, but let's take you back so people can understand folks listening. I want you to understand Alithea didn't just magically appear this way. You've done a lot of effing work. Oh
Olethea(10:30):
My
Tiffany(10:31):
Goodness. Back 2018, the days before you started really diving into this, talk a little bit about what your practice was looking like. What were you charging? What was your day to day?
Olethea(10:40):
Yeah, yeah. Look like. I had, you know, that those two masters, like I was in kidding. I had a job teaching at college. I, I taught at the university and college system, and it was contract work. It's a department of 40 women, all women, nobody has a full-time position. You know, people are like, should I get a PhD? And I'm like, why? Where's that gonna get you ? They actually went on strike, you know? But I was like, you know, I might as well just take all of this and move it into my own practice, but I really, you know, didn't understand what I do now, which is if you are going to start a business, do some money work first. Mm-Hmm . Right? Understand that whatever money story you had as a child, you'll recreate that in your business. So I grew up without a lot of resources and you know, like I was so frugal.
Olethea(11:27):

(00:43):
I was like, look, I can live on rice and beans, right? Like I can, you know, doll and rice. Like I know how to do this. And that was my safety and security. So I knew how to run my business really lean and you know, I was charging, I was, when I was still interning, it was $35, then it was $60. Then when I was like, I have my all my degrees, I was like, it's $120, right? And then I was going to have my daughter, and I was like, you know, I'll bump it up to like one 30. I was like, whew, whew. I was like, yeah, that's good. That's good. Right? And then , once I had my baby, and I was like, oh my goodness, reality. Yes. Right? And reality is like, you know, how can I spend all this time, you know, doing my core mission, which is empowering other women, and that has to include financially when I'm not gonna be looking after my own child in that same way, because how can I, when I'm not making enough money, right?
Olethea(12:16):
And I, and I felt like, you know, some of it is like, yes, the money story, but some of it is also just like not really understanding that just because someone else can charge one 20 does not mean that I also can charge that and have the same kind of life. Because, you know, they might not have the kind of loans that I have. They might not have the kind of, you know, I don't have the same kind of like, privilege to be able to have that down payment or just, you know, so many things. So many things. So yeah, once I had my daughter, I was kind of like, oh, you know, like this dream that I have of being able to like work part-time, build my practice, because I saw so many other women doing it, right? And I was like, oh, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do that because like, I don't have all of the other things that this other person might have where they have a house and they have their, they don't have any student loans and they have parents who are able to support financially.
Olethea(13:09):
And I was like, you know, it's gonna be my husband and I and our daughter living in our rented apartment, which is, is lovely. It's great. You know, I grew up in a, in an apartment, so it's fine. But I suddenly was like, oh, I don't think this is gonna really go really going to work.
Tiffany(13:25):
What? This is so interesting. I I, I pa paid attention to the word you used. You said not everybody can charge one 20 almost as if it's like a privilege, which it is. If someone is hard to charge one 20 and easefully live their life, yeah. They're getting resources from someone else, someone else, someone else is allowing for that to happen. If they're charging one 20 and seeing, you know, 20 clients a week or 15 and having an easeful life, someone is making up that difference somewhere. And you realized, ah, that doesn't gimme enough money to actually live a life of ease. What did you, can you say even just concretely, once you had your daughter and you were charging this one 30, where did things start breaking down? Where did you start realizing like, what literally was happening in your life that you're like, oh, I can't keep doing this. Or I am what that .
Olethea(14:17):
Okay, so this is just my family. Okay. Just my family in that, you know, that, that those two masters, the joke is that like, I didn't actually tell my parents that I was going to study therapy because, you know, we're South Asian, you know, they're kind of like, where is this gonna go? How are you gonna, and they also felt very ethically conflicted about charging people for money to support them. You know, they're also religious. So it's kind of like, you know, this is something that we do from the good of our heart. We don't, you know, how can you charge someone if they're struggling? And I was like, yeah, they're struggling, but money's not their problem. But it was, it was the respect, right? Because my dad was like, look, you have a job at this college. It's fine if it's contract, but you get something.
Olethea(14:53):
Maybe there's like a pension, you can work there. You know, why don't you do therapy on the weekends, right? And a lot of people do, they do therapy in the evenings, they do it on the weekends. They do it outside of their regular job, which is why they can do that. And I was like, I don't wanna be messing around with someone's mental health as my hobby or on the weekends or, you know, and that's fine. Like, look, if you have the capacity to do that, I knew that on top of being a parent, working a job and then doing therapy, like that was going to be a disaster for me. And I really saw like, okay, you know what? I'm going to have to do this differently so that I can take myself seriously. Right? And that meant like I needed to charge more so I could hire a nanny, right?
Olethea(15:35):
So that I wasn't waiting for my husband to come home so that I could see my clients in the evening. Right? Or I wasn't asking my parents like, Hey, can you watch my daughter and I can work on Saturdays? And a lot of other women, you know, like they, I see this on the Facebook post and they're like, I have to cancel. Or I'm only working these, or I'm only working this. And I, and I was like, you know, this is not how I want to offer a service 'cause I'm really good at this service, right? And if I hadn't made all those changes, I probably wouldn't feel this way. Now
Tiffany(16:04):
It's really, so the way you talk now, it's like you just were like, I gotta make this change. This doesn't work. I'm seeing that these, this math is not math thing. I gotta mm-hmm . So why did you come work with us instead of just raising your feet at two 50 and just 300 and making it happen? Why didn't you just do that?
Olethea(16:22):
Look, Tiffany, I did do that. Okay. I did, I did do that. Yeah. I, I, I moved it to two 60. And you know, the thing that I also know now, right? That I didn't know then, I didn't have all the words for all of this money stuff, is that, look, you know, you can ask chat GPT, it gets a bad rep, but I feel it's fine as chat, GPT create me a business plan, it'll create you the business plan, right? And now what I need to do is to be able to like, support my nervous system to be able to like, make that happen. So I needed to be in a room full of other women who understood the nuances of what I'm going through, right? And it wasn't just to complain about it, but to understand like, yeah, I understand why this is scary for you and I understand why this is difficult, right?
Olethea(17:10):
Like, yes, it's great to be able to see somebody else like you who's done all of these things in her business, and I needed that nervous system support from the community. And, you know, look, I've coached a lot of other therapists since this time, you know, literally thanks to just being on this podcast, which I love. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. But, you know, even after we have done our work and coached, they're like, you know, I still think I want that community. And I'm always like, yeah, I think you should go and join Tiffany's program because that is what you're getting, right? So I feel like, you know, it's not so much, you know, it's not the strategy. Like, you know, why, why do people even need therapists anymore? You know? Just chat GPT what your problems are and just say question, question and then say what, you know, what does this have to do with attachment trauma? And then chat PT will tell you stuff.
Tiffany(17:59):
I love that. So right on.

(01:04):
Olethea(18:00):
Sometimes I'm a little too flippant, right? But I feel like, you know, it's, it's not about the content. It's like, you know, can I understand you as a person and can I understand what you are struggling with? And can I like verbalize that to you? And can I tell you like, you know, this is what's gonna be hard for you, right? Can I validate, can I do all of those things? And I think like that was what I was really getting from that community.
Tiffany(18:26):
It's like, I love what you're saying. Humans have for millions of years been able to evolve and evolve and change because they have the structure. We've, we've evolved to do that with other humans. So we can't just take humanity and interpersonal relationships out of the equation and expect change. It's literally how we have evolved to existence. Yes,
Olethea(18:46):
Yes. Yes. Which is why I feel like, you know, it's so important that you are doing this with therapists because as a community, you know, there's so many just scripts that we have around money, and there's so many ways in which, you know, unbeknownst to us, even though we are therapists, right? Like, you know, all of that chaos or confusion or that instability that we might have grown up with, you know, those skills that we learned in childhood that allows us the capacity to sit with someone else's struggle and really be present. It's like, well, you know, you learned that somewhere. You know, and like, that's an amazing skill from childhood. But the other things that we don't want to bring into our business is all of that feeling of instability. All of that feeling of chaos and confusion. And I think that so many times we are okay with that because it's familiar. So we feel like, well, you know, everybody's doing this, everybody's, and it's like, and it's nice to see like, oh no, you know what? Everybody's not doing this.
Tiffany(19:42):
Everybody's not suffering. Everybody's not suffering. No, but it's not, you don't have to suffer. No. So I, I, I'm also realizing folks, Ali, Alicia was on the podcast before actually referenced, go back and listen to that to hear like the nuances of the journey. But that was also a very long time ago. Yeah.
Olethea(20:01):
It was,
Tiffany(20:02):
What is happening? What's your practice look like today? Yeah. what are you charging? Yeah. What has transpired since way back in like 2019 when we had you on the show?
Olethea(20:11):
Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I mean, you know, I feel like I just talk about my practice based on like, you know, like when does my life change? And like, how do I need to change my business to suit and support my life? Right? So like, you know, pause,
Tiffany(20:27):
Pause. You just to, yeah. You said this before and you said it again. And I wanna really, listeners listen to this. Alicia, you're saying literally, what do I need to do in my business so that it's giving to me, my business is giving to me. That's the whole purpose of this business. Yeah. Can you say a little bit more about this idea?
Olethea(20:45):
Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, Tiffany. You know, like, listen, let me talk to you therapist to therapist, right? Like, what are we pa what are we so passionate about? We're passionate about attachment and we're passionate about like, having good attachment. And I would ask you fellow listener, you know, if I had to ask you, Hey, person who's listening to this podcast, you know, podcast, do you love your business? Right? And what are you gonna say? And then if I have to give you a minute to think and then I have to come back in and say, Hey, do you think your business loves you?
Olethea(21:18):
Right? Can you feel that in your heart? Hey, and here's the thing, right? Like, we know that we have to be so intentional about the kind of relationship we want with our partner when we want to have a partner, when we choose to have friendships, what kind of attachment we want with that friend. Or, you know, we want, we know like, okay, if you're gonna be a parent, what kind of attachment you wanna have with your children and what you wanna do differently. Hey, you know, this is like a huge blind spot for us because we also have attachment to our business. And oftentimes when I'm working with therapists and business owners, when I ask this question, you know, they're a bit taken aback. 'cause They're like, oh, it's an inanimate thing. It's just like my job. And I'm like, okay. But like, you know, think for a minute.
Olethea(22:00):

(01:25):
Right? And sometimes they might say like, yeah, I, I like my business. Like I love it. There's, you know, sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's, it's like, okay, okay. And it's like, does your business love you? And they're like, it provides for me, gives me what I, and I was like, okay, but like, do a check. Right? Like, almost in a way this is might be like the default setting that, you know, your factory programming, that maybe this is how you felt with your parents mm-hmm . That they tried their best mm-hmm . But they, you know, and it's like, look, right? Like, in a way we might be kind of feeling that same kind of feeling projected into our business that, you know, you know, they're giving me their time, but maybe, you know, there's not enough money or energy or they're giving me their energy, but maybe there's not enough time or money.
Olethea(22:42):
Right? And like, you know, this is the thing that I feel the most passionate about is like, you know, my business has to be there for me. Like, it has to give me time, money, and energy. Like, my clients have to give me time, money, and energy. If someone says yes to the fee, but like, I feel like, ah, this person's not gonna be there energetically and time-wise, like, I kind of say no. So, you know, like for me, it really is about understanding that, you know, my business, like for me, I'm, I'm being cheeky, but like, my business is my rich uncle. You know, , my business is my rich uncle. Oh, my business is like, you know, my friend who's like, oh my gosh, you're doing so great today. I'm like, oh, thanks business. That's, you know, it sounds kooky, but it's like, it's nice to have somebody who is like your forever friend or your support because, you know, in some way or the other, like, this business and I, we gotta make it work.
Tiffany(23:31):
You are, you are breaking my mind a little bit. So we're gonna, folks, I'm about to hire Alicia right here on the show. Let me ask you this. We're gonna peel back the curtain on this a little bit. I really love how you're thinking. Like me, I'm thinking about my own business, li this business we're all here with right now. Like, as my rich uncle, as my friend who takes care of me, who ch like what my bestie. That is not how I think about my business. So I want you to peel back to the curtain a little bit. If, if, if we identify, let's say with Tiffany, like, okay, I definitely, I've talked about this in analysis all day long. My business has been a representation of my relationships with my parents. I hope you're not listening mom and dad right now. Like, I'm giving so much, I'm so passionate, I'm doing so much work. And like the needle moves just the tiniest bit. So, okay. Once you've identified that with your clients, how do you help them shift things? Or how did you shift that in your own business?
Olethea(24:22):
Uhhuh. . So, hey, you know when you were talking, right? I am like, I can feel that in my chest.
Tiffany(24:26):
Yeah.
Olethea(24:27):
Right? And I'd be like, okay, so like, how old were you feeling at when you're saying that? Mm-Hmm . Right? Because like, maybe if I'm just listening clinically, I'd be like, oh, it sounds like a little bit 15,
Tiffany(24:36):
15, like four. Look, I was taking care of my parents emotion. She had a very 2-year-old, Olivia,
Olethea(24:43):
You know, she's a little bit rebellious. She's like, you know, I gotta do this. I gotta look after that. Right? And so, you know, look, right when you're asking that question, it's like, you know, we have those tools to ask those questions. We have those tools to help our clients, but we're not thinking this way about our business. Right? And also like, you know, look, right? Like I go to therapy 'cause I need somebody else to point out what my problems are and like how I can move through that, right? But like, if we were talking about you, I'd be like, Hey, you know, like what, you know, like, it sounds like you're doing so much emotional labor, you're stabilizing everybody. And it also almost feels like, you know, there's like, ah, there's like a little bit of suffering. There's some place of martyrdom and it's like, you know, I have to be so brilliant and I have to do, so, I mean, that's
Tiffany(25:31):
Natural .
Olethea(25:32):
And did you even notice me Mom and dad ?
Tiffany(25:35):
Okay. So, so far we've learned from Athia that my business relationship, my relationship to my business is about 15 years old. I'm a 15, I'm a teenager in relation to my business. Really interesting stuff. That's really interesting work and all. What are all the implications of that? What are the, what are the ways that, that developmental stage, how am I making choices in my business if I'm operating from that developmental stage that are recreating a business that you have to work so hard for that doesn't give back, that I have to rebel against and fight and all this energy as opposed to simply sitting back and letting my rich, I'm gonna say my rich auntie, my rich.

(01:46):
Olethea(26:11):
Yeah. I like that.
Tiffany(26:11):
Just pay me. Here you go. Here's another million dollars, Tiffany. Yeah. Just because it's your mine. Yeah. I just wanna take care of you because your mine really interesting.
Olethea(26:18):
Yeah. Because look, right, like if you, if you know, I like when you're saying, right? Like, look, we're talking therapist to therapist. You're saying like, like developmentally a 15, a 15-year-old, it's kind of like hard sometimes to like hold their attention, right? Or like, maybe they're doing a lot of different things, or they're like, maybe I'll do this. Or, you know, there, there's so much of like reinvention or like, who am I? Mm-Hmm
Tiffany(26:37):
. Don't look at me. Olivia podcast ladies, gentleman,
Olethea(26:42):
I'm sorry to cackle. But okay. I'm having too much fun. I always get excited when we talk 'cause I feel like who knows? You know, like who knows what's gonna happen from this conversation. But it's, it's, it's enlivening, right? And like, I feel like this is what therapy should be like this is what, like good coaching should be like. And I think so much of our time as therapists, we feel like everything is about internal growth except our business. Yes, that's right. Right? And I'm like, no, no, no. Our business is like the key source of our internal growth, growth. Like, you know, that can be a place where we can make so much more change. Like, maybe you can't make change with your parents. Like, I can't. Sure. Yep. But I can make it with my business. You know, I can tell my business like, Hey, you know, like, look, here's how I need us to be.
Olethea(27:25):
And like, you know, for me with my second daughter, I was like, okay, I don't wanna be sitting. I wanna have more mobility. I wanna be able to move. And then by the time I was pregnant, I was like, well, we're just doing this with everybody now. Right? And then I was like, some of the business decisions that I made was like, you know, I wanna be able to like nurse and I wanna be able to be with my child. And I was also like, I don't want my husband stressed. 'cause Like him working a 40 hour job, so stressful. And then he has coworkers, and that means I have to listen to the coworkers. I was like, you know what? I don't have coworkers. I'm such a great spouse. But I was like, Hey, you know, spouse, like, why don't you take the time off to be at home with our family?
Olethea(28:04):
You take the time off and you know, my partner and I had, he's a feminist. And he's like, what about my career? I was like, oh, well what about my career? Right? But like, he can support this because like, I am the breadwinner, right? This is such a different place than the last time when he would stay and, you know, he'd come home exhausted and then have to look after our baby. And this time I was like, no, we're gonna hire nanny you. I want you to be home. I'm only gonna work from seven in the morning till 11 every day. But, you know, for those, and I didn't work every, every, every one of those, but, you know, I was like, that is the container. So I keep changing the container. And then I also was like, you know, I'm gonna hire as like a night doula, right?
Olethea(28:44):
And this was still like, you know, in the pandemic time. So my husband's like, we need somebody who is vaccinated, who is a person of color, who is, I was like, oh my goodness, do you wanna fly a unicorn? Like, who work with me? Please . You know, I can do what I can do within what I can do. And he was so opposed to all of these things because, you know, even culturally it's like, you know, what does it mean if you are a parent, if you are not struggling and if you're not up all night. And I was like, I am doing the emotional stuff of like holding our baby and making her feel safe. And someone else is like cooking food or like doing the laundry or, you know, I can just read and I can just rest. And it's such a different space of like, you know, how am I even being what, you know, what kind of a mother Emma was like, oh, I'm being a well rested mother.
Olethea(29:27):
Right? And, you know, I, I could do all of that because all of these things now felt like they're business decisions. 'cause I was like, you know, if I'm gonna do therapy in the morning, I need to have a good night's rest. So like, night doula. No. Like, makes sense. You know, like if I'm gonna come up in the morning and my husband has these two kids, it's full winter here. I was like, he's gonna need somebody from like seven to 11 in the morning just to kind of help out. You know? And like when I feel like anytime I make a decision to like ensure my business runs better, it also like runs better for the lives of my kids and my family. And like everybody is better supported rather than the old way where, you know, I'm kind of just trying to make it work a little bit here, a little bit there, you know? And when I'm doing all of this and paying for it all for my business, you know, my rich auntie who's like, yeah, don't worry. You know, I want you to look after yourself. You know, I want you to not burn out and I want you to like love what you do. You know, every time I go to do my job, I feel joy. You know, I feel like, oh, this is such a privilege. Right? And like, privilege, you know, and authenticity that needs a lot of support.
Tiffany(30:41):
I, I, I just wanna highlight for you listeners how understated Olathe was when she shared, she went from charging one 30, struggling in stress to letting her hu telling her husband, you're not working anymore so you can stay home with our children.
Olethea(30:59):

(02:07):
Okay, not permanently. He went back, you know, he went back
Tiffany(31:02):
time, you're taking the time off. We're hiring a nanny, we're hiring a night doula. Someone's gonna be cooking our food and someone's gonna be doing the laundry. Yes. You agree. You made changes in your business. You made changes to your fee structure such that you could actually financially provide all of this
Olethea(31:18):
Agreed
Tiffany(31:19):
For your family. How much, how much are you charging now?
Olethea(31:21):
It's 3 85.
Tiffany(31:23):
3 85. For therapists listening, I love this. I know there are therapists listening right now who are like, they have 50 people on their whole caseload. Yeah. They're seeing 25 or 30 a week. I get on the phone with them, I'm be getting on the phone with therapist for these past few weeks, having conversations. And they say, Tiffany, I just need clients who will pay me $250, just solve that problem for me. Mm-Hmm . And the rest will fall in line. What do you say to those folks who just want people, if you just tell me how to get people who will pay me $300, it'll be fine.
Olethea(31:56):
Sure. And then I would ask them, how do you feel sending that invoice? How do you feel charging people when they're struggling and you feel like, you know, you need to discount their service? Because look at how much distress they're in. Just because someone has money doesn't mean that the quality they're suffering is any less. Right? If you are having a hard time relationally looking after yourself when someone else is struggling, you're not gonna be able to do that when they have more money. Because, you know, like you thought that just having more money would solve your problem. And here are all these people who do have a lot more money and you know, they still have all of their generational trauma to work through. So how are you, what kind of discount are you gonna give those people? I'm being, I'm being cheeky, but you know, that's never really the question because, you know, know I've worked with enough people now and you know, this is the thing I've been doing.
Olethea(32:41):
I really love doing all this money work that I've just like segued to doing coaching and money work and business coaching. And I've been working with people who are not therapists and you know, like, it's even more of this out there where so many times women are given certain stories about like how we have to show up and how we have to support others. And so much of that is not just about how much we are charging. It shows up operationally in our business around the boundaries we keep around. You know, what we allow to slide around how we, you know, what we say yes and no to all the scope creep. There's so many ways in which as, you know, allowing ourselves to take care of ourselves shows up that probably you thinking that it's just about finding this person who you can take this money from. You know, that's, I'm, I'd be like, yeah, that's not really the problem.
Tiffany(33:36):
You wanna, okay, so let's, let's go a little further with this. You made these changes to your practice, but you still found people who are willing to pay you 3 85. Sure. I hear a therapist saying in this market, or we're, you know, we're in the states in this political climate, nobody wants to pay cash, pay premium fees anymore. Like, Tiffany, how do you actually find people? So Alicia, what, how do you think about your marketing strategy? How does that inform your ability to actually do this, et cetera?
Olethea(34:05):
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Moment of truth. You know, maybe I'm lucky, right? Maybe I'm just the most luckiest unicorn you've ever seen who just, you know, was there. You know, my supervisor, even my supervisor laughed at me and be like, Lithia, are you making like $300 a week from, you know, charging $35? I was like, yeah, supervisor. I'm like, thank God I've always been frugal. IE you know, my, my family comes from like intense amounts of poverty. So I just know how to stretch those dollars foof. 'cause Other people couldn't. Okay. So maybe I'm just incredibly lucky, okay. Maybe, right? If we're not just doing incredibly lucky, you know, like look, right? Like, there's always an aspect of luck, right? There's always an element of luck and I think to like say that it's not true. You know, like how, how did I know, right?
Olethea(34:55):
Like in 2018 and that I was like, I'm just gonna be online 'cause I don't wanna be away from my child, right? And then everybody's like, Hey, you're online. And I was like, yeah, do you want me to do a training about being online? They're like, yeah. I was like, oh, great. Let me, let me train you. So maybe I'm just lucky, right? And maybe there's like an element of luck, but like you're asking, Hey, you know, like no one wants to do this, right? No one wants to do this. And I'd be like, you know, if I was just asking the question, I'd be like, Hey, you know, like how does it help you if that's the thing that you believe? Right? I would go back to that, right? Look, you know, if you're asking practically like, what is my marketing strategy? I'd tell you the truth and be like, well Tiffany, I'm a big chicken, right?

(02:28):
Olethea(35:36):
And you know how you talk about like going to others and telling them your rate and telling them your feet? Well, like, okay, people did not take limb where I am at. Okay. People limb is not like a, a thing here. Even though I thought it was gonna be like common sense and it would just happen. It's not a thing. And you know, like, again, I'm owning my chicken ness, right? Because like growing up, my family stories that if I ever wanted to do anything, I just did it quietly and then told my parents, remember that masters that I just did quietly and then told my parents, which I self-funded. So, you know, because of those stories, I sometimes I am not always trusting of telling other people what's happening for me. So I did not build up my case by referral where I would tell other people and you know, like, look, right?
Olethea(36:24):
Like at that time I was like a young Bipoc therapist or professionalist still like, you know, 80% older white women. And I was not always that, you know, comfortable being like, how will this person see it? Because, you know, oftentimes it is seen as kind of insulting, like, you know, I have so much more experience than you, you know, how are you comfortable? You only have a master's. I have to, but you only have a master's, right? Like, how are you comfortable doing this? Right? So like, look, I'm such a chicken. My strategy was, you know, like I had been, you know, looking at like, how do people coach? What is it that they're doing? How do they, you know, how, how do they getting their client's results, right? And I really, you know, like look, right? Like what is my secret? I'm a really good clinician and I really focused on like, you know, what does my client need to do?
Olethea(37:11):
What do they need to get? And once I was able to move through my money work, you know, I was also really clear like, what is the container that I need to get this client these results, right? One of the questions that I ask people is like, Hey, you know, if you didn't have to think about money, how would you run your business differently? Right? So when money was not the big problem that I was focused on, like, how will they afford this? I was like, well this person has, you know, they are able to go into a war torn zone, right? What kind of stuff have they seen in childhood that prepares them for this? Right? They're not gonna get by with once a week therapy, right? So I really thought about like, what's my client's problem? Where are they out of alignment? And you know, like maybe this is my biggest flex, but whenever I work with anybody, I'm like, Hey, you know, you're gonna be able to see yourself so much more clearly, you're gonna be able to be a better clinician.
Olethea(37:59):
And you know, like to me that feels like the biggest reward anytime I've worked with somebody that I know that they will feel more confident in their clinical skills because they're really thinking about, you know, what do I need to do good work with clients? So, you know, to answer your question in us, that's a long way. The majority of the work that I do with clients gets me more clients, right? Like my practice is mostly all client referral. And even my clients will be like, oh my goodness, I would tell my friends, but like, no one's gonna pay that. 'cause That's a lot of money. And then guess what happens? The clients have this glow up, emotional glow up and people are like, what have you done? You seem different. And then, you know, like I have a lot of people who come to me from doing that, right? I also have recently probably about six months ago I hired somebody. This is my first employee. I'm so happy about that. But you know, like my business was already very stable from therapy and now this person is gonna do like more marketing, more LinkedIn, more stuff. And you know, people have been saying like, Hey, I didn't realize that you were so successful or like, you know, it's great to see how, how good your business is. And I was like, oh, this is just from like doing HH and client work.
Tiffany(39:06):
Well you haven't even got out. She hasn't even got out yet folks. So there was, there was something you said that, oh, I, I wanna add, so you talked about is it luck? Is it obviously no. Everything in life we're all alive, so we're lucky for that reason. Sure. But but my mouth to God's ears. Yeah. We're all lucky for that. I'll add you were willing to grow yourself. You were willing to say, okay, I'm making 130 session, kind of let me pay, I think it was a thousand dollars at the time for this limb
Olethea(39:36):
Program. Yeah, it was.
Tiffany(39:37):
If I get a thousand dollars, if I pay a thousand dollars
Olethea(39:40):
One, one takeaway
Tiffany(39:41):
Done that allows you to fully trust your client like you are gonna do the work first, you're gonna invest and get a return. So you, you know, viscerally what it means to invest and get a return. I talked to therapists even I think just last week who was like, oh, I don't know if anyone's ever gonna pay me premium fees. Oh, and also I'm not gonna take your program 'cause I'm not willing to pay. It's like, if you are not willing to pay to learn and grow and understand that you can pay money and have your life transformed, you're not gonna do it. You're not gonna trust people gonna do it for you. So I hear you Olethea, Olethea. Saying, I know that when I've paid money, I'm the kind of person who gets an insight and I will make a change that will glow, glow me up just like you're talking about. So you can confidently go in front of your clients and be like, you paid this 3 85 week after week, maybe twice a week, your life is gonna change. 'cause You, you've done it yourself. You've had this experience yourself.
Olethea(40:32):
Yes, yes, yes. And yes. Right? And I also say like, look, you know, it is, it is scary out there, right? Like, now that I know more about the world of online business, like I know that there are so many, you know, scammy things that happen. And I also feel like, you know what? Look. Right. Like what I can trust on is myself. Yes. Right? Thank you for being the eldest kid, you know, having to just figure stuff on your own. But it's like, look, I have, I understand, right? Like even if I make a decision that doesn't work out, I'm gonna find a way to make it work out or to understand like, you know, maybe you pay a lot of money and you're like, oh my God, that was terrible. And then you realize, well compared to that, like I'm offering transfer fricking transformation, right?
Olethea(41:13):

(02:49):
And, you know, look right like Tiffany, like I see clients like twice a week, three times a week. You know, like, I'm like, Hey, let's, this is your life we're talking about. You know, like this isn't something small, right? Like, and you know, like I also feel like sometimes I feel frustrated by what therapy is doing out there because I feel like, you know, we should be able to like move people and like transform people and do you have the right resources to transform people, right? Like maybe everybody doesn't want transformation, but if you are in the business of transformation, right? Not physically, but like, you know, being able to change someone's story and how they're relating to themselves and how they're relating to the world. You know, like that's what I love to do. But you know, I have to be so choosy and careful if that's what I'm doing, you know, what do I need to do that? Because I can't be, you know, bedraggled by the end of the day lip
Tiffany(42:04):
Up your face, ,
Olethea(42:05):
Right? And then my children are like, hi mama. I'm like, oh yeah, sorry. I know I talk about, you know, emotional abandonment and neglect, but you know, like I need to scroll on the phone. So you know, like
Tiffany(42:16):
A hundred percent. Let me pause on that. Yeah. Folks, listen to that for a moment. Oia cannot do transformational work. She cannot talk about what it means to be emotionally present, to break patterns of emotional neglect. If she's bedraggled and overwhelmed and coming home and lapping her kids in front of marijuana two and scrolling
Olethea(42:35):
On her phone, , that's
Tiffany(42:37):
Not the person who can deliver transformation or facilitate transformation.
Olethea(42:41):
Yeah. You know, like, look, right? Like I have, I am overly sensitive, right? I'm overly sensitive to the, you know, adverse childhood experiences. Like I'm seeing it. I, you know, I'm reading about it, I'm researching it. So, you know, I also have to, you know, my own practitioner research has to also be my home where I am also, you know, creating the space to look after myself so that I have something, a lot of something, you know, and this is the thing that I feel like, you know, has been the funniest to me. 'cause You know, when I saw my mom being a mom, it was such a story of sacrifice, right? And, you know, anytime I work with parents, I feel like, you know, like we should be able to like allow our children to see us like have joy in being with them.
Olethea(43:29):
Yeah. Right? Not just when they're older, but like when we're with them and being with them. And I feel like, you know, this is the thing that I I I'm the most surprised by, by parenting is like how much I en I enjoy spending time with my kids. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I enjoy spending time with them because I have so much support. Right? And the support is not like, unfortunately like, you know, for various reasons it cannot be my parents on a full-time basis, you know, for so many things happening. But, you know, like I have the resources to put these supports in place that, you know, like no matter what is happening, you know, like I feel like, you know, my kids are having a good childhood, right? And they, and that is like, that's joy, that's joyful. And I get to enjoy them. I get to enjoy the people that they're being and I get to like see how I was at that age. 'cause They're so, you know, they're so similar and funny and they're just Yeah. You know, like I feel like I don't just love my children in my mind. Like, I like love them.
Tiffany(44:28):
Yes, yes, yes. You're inspiring me. Oh, I'm like, I wanna go pick up my kids from school right now. . I'm not gonna do that. Yeah, sure. But I did have the, the little twitch. So, so folks who are listening Oli, Alicia, we have a couple more minutes. Yeah. Someone's listening right now. They, they're they're starting to have some awareness that what they're doing isn't actually in integrity. How they're working isn't in integrity. Yeah. Yeah. How can they work with you? Are you, can they connect with you? What's the
Olethea(44:54):
Situation there? Yeah, please connect with me. Hey look right. Like you know, like my therapy business, oh my goodness, I'm so happy with it. It does good business. And then I have this coaching business on the side. Don't, you know, it's not the big, big, big business that makes all money. 'cause I feel like a lot of times therapists think that your coaching is like the thing that's gonna take you out of this and that. I'm like, no it's not. But I do this coaching thing where I work with somebody just for an hour. You give me all this info and then I tell you like, Hey, here's your money story. And you know, I make like a few key recommendations and I've been doing that and it's really good. And sometimes a lot of the times people cry and they say, oh my gosh.
Olethea(45:32):
And it's like amazing and powerful and I feel like, you know, like that, you know, 'cause I really want to be able to like offer support to our community and to the, and to just like women entrepreneurs, right? And like, I feel like we have, we, we have that capacity, we have that muscle that we can like really flex to like look after ourselves, look after our family, look after our community, look after the people we love. And you know, that requires resources and we need to be able to steward those resources. So sorry, sorry. Work with me. I have a website. It's alicia p.com. There's something there called your Money Story. Mm-Hmm It's a super affordable, you know, 'cause I want it to be able to be like, you know, you don't have to work with me long term. 'cause You know, a lot of therapies like working with somebody long term, this is like a one thing.

(03:10):
Olethea(46:19):
You come in, you do your thing and yeah, I'd love to like support you if your money Jo journey, money story. But also, you know, I always love, whenever I'm on the podcast, people will just like email me and say like, Hey, I love that you're doing this. You know, I listen to this and I listen to that. And even if you don't, you know, like I still, you know, feel just happy knowing that you're listening to this and like maybe you know, what you're taking away is like just my en energy and enthusiasm for something that, you know, I know how hard it is, right? Like I also know how hard it is. Like how hard it is when no matter what all you're doing, like our clients are struggling right now, right? People are struggling, women are struggling. And I also know how hard it is, right? So I want to tell you like, look, I know I know the hard stuff and this is why we have to do all of this other stuff to like protect ourselves so that the hard staff doesn't like rob us. Of all of our joy and like rob us from our motivation to do this work.
Tiffany(47:20):
Yeah. They don't get to steal our joy lythe. No. Steal our joy. So lythe p.com. We'll also have that in the show notes. Sure. They can do a your money story session with you. Yeah. And I wanna say folks, I told AIA earlier, like, just send me a DM on Instagram. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'd love to carry on the conversation and Olethea. Iss like, I'm not on social media, so if you're out there as a therapist who's like, I have to be on social media. Yeah. Had charge 3 85, I don't want that. No, you don't. You don't. That's a story.
Olethea(47:49):
You know what, listen, I think that's the most hilarious thing because when I was charging like one 20, I thought like I would have to have a big office. I would have to have those like coffee pods. I don't even drink coffee. You know, I would have to have like service. And now I'm like, they me, three eighty five. Yeah. I'll just call you. It's like, are you gonna see me? I'm like, no. I'm in my walking clothes and I'm walking and like, and I need my hands to walk, and I like, you are gonna be walking to you. And so like, now, I think that's the biggest joke. My husband's like, so what are they getting? I was like, we walk and talk and they walk and talk and no, they're, they don't, they're not seeing me. But like, I'm working somatically so it doesn't matter anyways.
Olethea(48:22):
But, you know, it's, it's the most hilarious thing of like, you know, all the things that when I was just starting out that I thought like a grownup business would have to have, like, oh, I'm gonna have to have this social media this and I'm gonna have to have this fancy office that, and I'm gonna have to dress like this. And, you know, most of the times I'm just hanging around, walking, talking in my neighborhood, wearing like winter clothes. You know, I'm not even looking glamorous, but you know, I'm so this like, I feel like, you know, people who are thinking that are missing. Like what's the value of the service?
Tiffany(48:55):
Yes. That is beautiful. Olethea, I want to ask you a hundred things about that too, but we're gonna wrap it up folks. If you wanna know what's truly people are truly paying for, if you wanna know why a, a person would be willing to pay you 3 85, 1 or two or three times a week, it's not your fancy office. It's not your coffee pot. When you don't drink coffee, it's not looking glamorous ole when you sit with oleo or get on the walk and talk, you'll truly understand why people are willing, why people will be willing to pay you that 3 85 Olethea. Thank you so much for your time.
Olethea(49:28):
Thanks Tiffany.
Outro (49:35):
All right. Whatever you're doing, I want you to pause. If you're driving, pull over. If you're chopping a carrot, put that knife away. If you're making sweet love to your woman, well, I mean that's, that's, That's kind of flattering in a weird way. Huh. You can go, you can just go ahead and you can keep doing that. But for the rest of you, if you learn even just one thing of value today, please share this episode with even just one therapist who could benefit from the message. Here's how, if you're listening on iTunes, click on the episode and you'll see a small purple circle with three dots. Click on those dots and you're gonna see the option to share at the bottom of the list. Click that and you can just go ahead and share it on Facebook, or you can even just text it to one therapist who you know needs to hear it. If you're listening on Stitcher, just tap the triangle icon on the upper right corner. It's next to the menu that displays your upcoming playlist. You'll see the option to share the episode you're currently listening to Right on Facebook. Look, it's time to get the word out. We gotta spread the message. Thank you so much, and we'll join each other again soon.