From Financial Insecurity to $525 Sessions: How Brianna Emancipated Herself.

Ready to set your fee? You choose the dream, we'll do the math. Download our FREE Fun with Fees Calculator here 👉🏽 https://www.leaninmakebank.com/free

 

In this episode, we’re speaking with Dr. Brianna Mann, PhD, a LIMB Academy grad based in Minnesota who specializes in working with high achievers.  

Brianna gets real in today’s interview, talking about what it REALLY took for her to emancipate herself from a system that was not designed for her. 

She also gets vulnerable, sharing what allowed her to keep moving forward—to keep moving towards her dream—even when she was leaving an abusive relationship, three months behind on her mortgage payments, half a million dollars in debt, and relying on welfare just to get by. 

This story will inspire you—and challenge you—to think differently about yourself and the world around you.

 

In this episode, Brianna shares: 

How a 20% decrease in reimbursement rates from her insurance panels pushed Brianna to go private pay; 

What happened after Brianna joined the LIMB Academy and really started addressing her mindset work; 

How she moved from financial insecurity and reliance on insurance panels to $525 private pay sessions; 

Her top three pieces of strategic advice for a therapist who’s feeling stuck in their private practice; 

The specific marketing strategies Brianna used to attract clients who were willing to pay her premium fees; 

The difference between networking at therapist conferences and networking with professionals who hold themselves to a higher standard (this one is EXCITING).  

 

Resources mentioned: 

LIMB Academy 

FWF Calculator 

Brianna’s Website 

Brianna's Dream Course

Brianna's Digital Inner Child Meditation

Brianna’s Pinterest

More about Brianna:

Dr. Brianna Mann, Ph.D works with high achievers who have obtained the American Dream and feel like they’ve been sold a bill of goods because they don’t feel any happier or like their lives any more. In fact, they actually feel depressed, anxious, neurotic or numb; they’ve found out the hard way that happiness and freedom are inside jobs. Dr. Mann works with them to find and heal the root of these problems, so they can stop the fake-it-until-you-make-it routine and experience freedom and joy as more than just pipe dreams.

 

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Tiffany(00:01):

(00:01):
$500,000 in debt. That's half a million dollars, half a million dollars in debt. Three months behind on one's mortgage payment. 40% loss in private practice revenue. That is where Dr. Brianna Mann was in 20 18, 20 19. This is the story we're gonna hear today. We're going to hear how Dr. Brianna Mann went from challenging herself to actually raise her fees after being absolutely off. Absolutely done with the system. She had been on insurance panels and they actually decreased her reimbursements by 20% after decades of not giving therapists any raises. And she said, that is enough. I'm not doing it anymore. She got off panels, raised her fees to $250 per session, joined us in Lean In Make Bank, was feeling empowered, was starting to feel emancipated from a, a mind, a system that said she couldn't do it. And then everything fell apart. By the way, I am your host Tiffany Mclain founder of the Lean In Make Bank Academy, where we help therapists gain the confidence to go after what they want, the confidence to show up fully, and the confidence to charge fees in their practice that actually allow us to do those things.
Tiffany(01:36):
You are, you have been part of a system that was not designed for you. You have been playing by rules in a game that was actually absolutely set up for you to fail. We help you play a different game. We help you design your own game. And this is what Brianna Man did. She's going to be talking about it today, how she went from $500,000 in debt, three months behind on her mortgage payments relying on welfare to get by to now charging $525 per 80 minute session. That's $400 an hour. Ladies, gentlemen, people Now, I was reach recently at a bachelorette party and they had a medium come, a comic, a co medium. 'cause She was supposed to be funny. She was not funny, ladies and gentlemen, but she, I, I wasn't even thinking about this. I don't really play in the spiritual realm, .
Tiffany(02:37):
I'm just right here on Earth. I, I wasn't even thinking anything about this medium. I wasn't even looking forward to it. Just another fun part of this bachelorette party. This medium was tapping into something that, I don't know what, I'm not gonna explore it . I'm not gonna try to understand it. But there was something going on that was beyond the, the, the world that I currently inhabit, the world that I know about, intellectually goosebumps folks all night long. Now, the reason I talk about this is because Brianna also has employed, what does she call them? Esoteric methods in her own journey to emancipate herself from a system that was not set up for her and in her clinical work. You are going to find this episode absolutely inspiring. You may be moved to tears, you may be challenged. And for all of those things, you're welcome. Let's dive in.
Intro (03:44):
I think there's a difference between saying what your fee is and like fully committing to it. I believe in this like law of attraction, but you also have to take action. I don't think I do enough to help other people despite being, despite being a therapist, I was worried that I'd end up only serving wealthy people. You know, I was being so delusional about my actual cost, right? I wasn't actually paying myself a real salary. Now that I am charging more, I'm not lying to myself. This is ridiculous. Completely broken, man. If people knew who they were, do what she's doing, like she's doing this.
Tiffany(04:27):
Alright, folks, welcome. I'm really excited for this interview. Today we're talking to Brianna Mann, Dr. Brianna Mann, there is so much we're gonna dive into today. Let's just start with the rapid fire. Start by telling us a little bit about you and your practice as it stands today.
Brianna(04:44):
Okay? So I wanted to be Fox Mulder from the XFiles, but , did you watch XFiles, Tiffany? Yeah, I did. Okay. Oh my God. I lo was so in love with David Duke Heney and I wanted to be Fox Mold from the XFiles, but that isn't a job. So decided to become a clinical clinical psychologist. And he was actually a psychologist on the show. So I think maybe that's why it's like the next best thing I could do. And so I went into clinical psychology. I did private practice right out of the gate, was sort of clipping along, saving for retirement, and my life blew up right after I did limb, actually, in 2018. I got out of a domestic violence situation got a divorce, and then I found myself on the other side of the therapy room, and I had a conflict or a really nasty case of complex PTSD.
Brianna(05:32):
And I basically, short story, long story short, I wasn't happy with my results. You know, I was trained in all of the gold standard treatments. I knew a lot of the experts in the country, and I wasn't happy with the results I was getting. You know, if you look at the clinical trials research the gold standard treatments, you'll get about a 25% symptom reduction rate, which is considered fantastic, right? Drug companies would kill for symptom reduction rates like that. But when you're a person who is scoring off the charts on the PPCL, that's still clinical range, 25%. And so I was just like, no, we're not doing this. I want a hundred percent symptom reduction, and I want a fairytale. I want a fairytale happy ending. Like I, I want, like, I've had a real rough life and I want, I want the best.
Brianna(06:13):
Like, I'm not settling for any less. And so I got really desperate. I, I tried, I was willing to try anything, including things that would've gotten me laughed outta my graduate program. Esoteric options like dream interpretation psychological shamanism, energy work actual like magic, like spells of. What else did I do? Extrasensory perception, law of attraction. All of these, like I said, esoteric options. And I was shocked because they actually worked for me. Like this was the missing piece in my treatment pro. And I, I couldn't believe it because, you know, that was pseudoscientific hocus pocus. We don't do that here. And it worked. And so I started using with clients and they had better results too. And so it was like, okay, well, I can't pretend this isn't working, and so I need to do something. So I developed a dream interpretation course and a digital inner child subconscious healing product.
Brianna(07:05):
And the thing about the thing, most interesting thing about dream interpretation, which has been a big part of my recovery, is that people think that it's just a parlor trick, right? And they don't take it seriously. There's something cool you talk about with your friends. It couldn't be further from the truth. It's an incredibly powerful healing technique. It's been used for centuries. It's used across the world by other non-Western cultures. It was used in western culture and antiquity. But the problem is that the church outlawed its practice and killed all the practitioners. So it killed all the witches and the shamans, indigenous healers. It outlawed that practice along with any other esoteric options, right? Because they were in direct competition with the church. And so its business strategy was to literally eliminate the competition. So these tools that we used to have for healing have been lost for centuries, and they're starting to sort of be rediscovered.
Brianna(07:54):
And this is one of them that I happen to rediscover. Well, rediscover. And like I said, it worked wonders for me. And the thing is, is that, you know, I think a lot of people don't realize this powerful healing modality is something that you can access every single night. So once you learn how to use it through a course or some other method that you use to learn how to interpret dreams, you're basically getting a free therapy session every night. And if you're paying somebody like me for a therapy session that's gonna be 5 25 a night, that's $191,000 a year, a free therapy that folks are just leaving on the table. And so I really encourage you,
Tiffany(08:30):
I'm gonna pause you for a minute. Yeah. Just for a minute. And then we're gonna, we gotta keep it moving, Brianna. I know, I know. Tiffany, I know you said 5 25 a session is what you charge. Mm-Hmm, . Okay. You jumped us to the end. We're gonna go back. We're gonna go back. Yeah. We'll, we're

(00:22):
Brianna(08:41):
Rewind or rewind it.
Tiffany(08:43):
We'll make sure to point people towards your resources for your Yeah. Both your therapy work and also your online courses that people can access. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. . Well, let's take people back. Let's take people way back and also way back. Okay. And also, we're gonna be talking about how your journey is gonna be up and down. Mm-Hmm. . So the first, in this rapid fire part, we're gonna be talking about pre limb, pre addressing your money work. Mm-Hmm. . And we're gonna go through those steps, but then there's gonna be more to the story than we're gonna talk about in the deep dive section. So what year, what what, what year did you take a live? 2018. Mm-Hmm. . What was going on in your practice? You said you'd always, you went into private practice straight out the gate. What was going on? What was some signs? Mm-Hmm. that made you say, I gotta start charging premium fees. I gotta get out this.
Brianna(09:29):
Yep. Well, number one, it was a really big sign everyone should look out for this One is I was hating my life. So if you hate your life, pay attention to that. Don't just keep going. Being like, well, I've just got another year of this. No, listen to that. So, number one, I hated my life. Number two big thing that happened, this was 2017, this happened. Blue Cross Blue Shield reduced our pay rate by 20%.
Tiffany(09:51):
Reduced it.
Brianna(09:52):
Yes. And I was like, really. . I mean, I think everybody was mad, but I, I looked at my work with insurance companies a lot differently, I think, than most folks. I saw myself as an employee. And so that was kind of my reframe. And I was like, if I was an actual employee in their company, and number one, they didn't give us a pay raise in 20 years. 'cause They haven't, they haven't raised reimbursement rates in decades from what I understand. If number one, they didn't do that, and number two, then they expected me to take a 20% pay cut, I would say, go yourself. I, I would not stay there. Like, I was so angry and I just used my anger. I didn't stuff it down. I was like, Nope. My righteous. Rachel was like, we're not doing this, people, I'm finding another way. And shortly after that, I think it was in the summer. No, it was in the, it doesn't matter. Shortly after that, I actually found your 10 missed therapists believe about raising fees. Remember that? Mm-Hmm. . And then that directed me to your fund with fees calculator. And I did the fund with fees calculator. And it was like, oh, I need to be charging way more than I'm charging. And what were you charging?
Tiffany(10:51):
What were you getting re reimbursed?
Brianna(10:52):
I was getting an average, well, I was taking only Blue Cross, so they you're not supposed to, well, I don't care. I'm not on a contract. It was 1 68 and then 20% pay rate. I forget what, I didn't know if feel like doing the math, but it was, it was gonna be a lot less. Yeah. And I'd I'd gotten off all insurance panels at that time except for Blue Cross. Yeah. And so then I, like I said, I found your fund with fees calculator. I was like, all right, we're raising, I raised my rates to two 50, which absolutely no one was doing at the time. 'cause This was seven years ago. And actually, Tiffany, I don't even think you were doing it. 'cause I looked at your website. I think you were at 180 then what year was,
Tiffany(11:23):
And I was like, oh. 2017. It
Brianna(11:25):
Was the summer of 2017.
Tiffany(11:27):
Yeah. I think I was at 180.
Brianna(11:28):

(00:43):
Yeah. I think he raised them right after that. 'cause I was kind of checking like, who else is doing this? And yeah. So I like, like, we're, we're doing two 50, we're gonna see what happens. And I started getting clients. Shockingly,
Tiffany(11:42):
Let me jump in here, folks. You just heard Brianna mention the fund with fee calculator. If you are finding yourself excited, nervous, challenged, inspired by the conversation we're having today, I encourage you to go to lean in make bank.com/free and download our fun with fee private practice calculator. Consider this your entree into a different way of thinking. Consider this the beginning of a journey where you are going to step out of a system that was not designed for you, it was not designed with your success in mind. Consider this your first step on a journey to prioritize who you are, what you want for yourself, the people and things that are important and meaningful for you. This is your chance to design your own game. Play by rules that were meant to take care of you. Lean in, make bank.com/free. You can also just go to the link right under the show. Click that. I'm excited to see what happens. Alright, let's get back to the show. So you were hating your life. Mm-Hmm. .
Brianna(13:03):
Yeah. I was too hating my life. And then I found your,
Tiffany(13:07):
What, what? And then you raised your fees before doing li
Brianna(13:12):
Mm-Hmm. .
Tiffany(13:13):
So then why would you join Li if you already took action? Made it happen? Yeah. I,
Brianna(13:18):
I, because I really wanted to step into them. I still felt nervous about it. I just wanted, I mean, that's a good, you know, that's a good question. I just felt like I needed d extra support. I wanted, I didn't, well, here's the thing. My, the actual fee that I was supposed to be charging according to the fund with feeds calculator was $500 a session. And I was like, I can't do, that's too much of a stretch. We're gonna do two 50. And so I wanted to, I wanted to grow. Like, I was like, I wanna take this train all the way to the end. You know?
Tiffany(13:46):
When you say you hated your life, I'm already not rapid firing. I'll get back to it, but I do, I wanna hear more. Like when you say you hated your life, a lot of people might be like, yeah, I hate my life. Yeah. What, what specifically was happening in your practice Yeah. That made you say, I hate this, I'm not doing this. What was the, what was the this? Yeah.
Brianna(14:05):
So I think I did a better job than a lot of the stories I hear right out of the gate. I was just like, not gonna have a schedule. You know, I've been working, you know, grad school 80 hour weeks before. I mean, I'd been working since I was 15 years old. Nights, weekends, I was just like, we're not doing that. So I was three days a week. Monday through Friday, I was doing four to nine clients a day, which was 18 to 20 clients a week. Which again, like is pretty low for most people. Mm-Hmm. . But for me, I was just, I couldn't, like, I would come home and I felt like a complete zombie. And I, I'm seriously like an actual, actual zombie. I could barely run the microwave. I couldn't hang out with friends. I couldn't communicate with my ex-husband.
Brianna(14:46):
I couldn't hardly even watch TV that was too overstimulating. I would stare at the wall pretty much like, just stare out the window. And like, my, my insides felt like they were like, wanted to scream and just like, crawl out of me. It was just this weird feeling in me. That was a good day. On a bad day, I felt depressed and actually suicidal. And I was like, I can't do this. It will literally kill me. Like, I want to die right now. This is really bad and I like this work and I love my clients, but it's not worth it. You know what I mean? Like, it, this is really bad. And so, I mean, I made some changes right away so that I wasn't feeling like I cut way back on my client load. 'cause That was even too much. 18 to 20 was way too much for me.
Brianna(15:24):
That helped a lot with to just Blue Cross started taking more time off. But it's still, I still felt this inside. And what I found out later was I wasn't doing traditional therapy. I was doing traditional therapy, plus I was doing some like shamanic energy healing stuff that I didn't even know I was doing. 'cause It just kind of like, was intuitive to me and I had no idea. And that was why I was feeling like that. And that was, that's why I can't see a lot of clients. It's just, it's just kind of what I do. And I spoke with my energy healer about it, and she had a similar experience. She was trained as a massage therapist and she was having the same, where she would come home and she would feel like she said she felt suicidal. She was having all these health problems.

(01:04):
Brianna(16:01):
She was just exhausted. And she was talking to other massage therapists and they're, and so they were saying, you know, what they were doing in the sessions. And she's like, so you don't talk to spirit guides and you don't move energy while you're doing your massages. And they're like, what are you talking about lady? And she was doing, you know, past life regression and reiki and didn't even know that she was doing it. You know what I mean? So it's kind of like, it's like, okay, that's what's happening. You know? And I, I used unfortunately had a lot of unhelpful scripts about that. Right? Like, you just can't handle it. You're not cut out for this kind of work. You're too weak. And that they still show up. But that wasn't the case at all. I just do things differently than other folks do. Yeah.
Tiffany(16:38):
So you were really taking on Mm-Hmm. people with energy in a way that maybe some therapists have an internal boundary or an internal No. Yeah. You were taking all of that in and working with it in
Brianna(16:48):
Your And I was transmuting it for them. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Tiffany(16:51):
Well, what do we talk about beyond talks about it in psychoanalysis in terms of taking their beta bits and turning 'em into alphabets Pro Mm-Hmm. Taking it all of their content and putting it out in a way that can be taken back in by them.
Brianna(17:02):
Yep. Yep.
Tiffany(17:03):
So you raised your feet at two 50. Okay. I looked at the calculator. I gotta get out of this. I gotta figure out something. Raise my feet at two 50. Was it scary having those conversations the first time? This is even before you started doing work with us? Mm-Hmm. , how did you feel?
Brianna(17:16):
Yeah, I felt terrified. I felt terrified. It was a little better because I did, well, no, my ex-husband, he was unemployed at the time. He was getting money from the va. So we did have like a little bit of money coming in, but I was terrified. I was like, I'm gonna end up, and this is especially the second time around when I started making other these, you know, new changes to my business. It was like, I'm gonna end up focusing on the streets. It's all gonna be my fault because I didn't follow the status quo. I didn't listen to anybody's advice. I would be homeless on the streets. It's gonna be all my fault. And no one will help me because I made the stupid decision to raise my rates to not follow the status quo. And this lately, you know, to double down on my business that's failing. So no, I'm gonna be, this is where I'm gonna end up and it's gonna, I'm have no one to blame but myself.
Tiffany(17:54):
Oh, so you have this business,
Brianna(17:56):
Right? ? It
Tiffany(17:57):
Was, it was it was, you're doing the status quo thing, taking insurance. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. 18 to 20 clients, which is even less, some people might say. That's great. Yeah.
Brianna(18:07):

(01:25):
And it was down to 12, I think at the time.
Tiffany(18:09):
Oh, 12.
Brianna(18:10):
I lose it to 12.
Tiffany(18:11):
Once you went up to two 50 mm-Hmm. . Okay. No,
Brianna(18:14):
Even before that actually.
Tiffany(18:16):
Okay. So your, your internal sense was, I cannot do this anymore. I'm not gonna do it. I have no other choice but to charge more, see fewer people. Yep. And, and you took a pay cut. You, you, you took a pay cut and your idea was, I gotta double down on this thing. Mm-Hmm. , someone else might say, I just gotta go back and work for an agency. Yeah. I just, this is too much. I need to go back to somewhere where I can actually have security.
Brianna(18:45):
Yeah.
Tiffany(18:46):
Why do you think you did the other choice? Why do you think you went all in on your, on your own business?
Brianna(18:52):
I mean, because, well, see, here's the thing. It wasn't so much that I believed in myself. It was that I hated the alternative more. I just, there was something inside me that just recoiled at that. It just, there was like a visceral reaction I had to, the idea of doing that, like my soul was, it was like when I was seeing too many clients, my soul was screaming at me. It was just like, like I just, I couldn't make myself do it. Like I, it was like eating a sandwich. Like, there's just no way I could do it. I mean, I don't, that's the only way I can describe it. I just, there was something in me that said, Nope, not doing it.
Tiffany(19:29):
Mm. So you move forward limb, 2018 you were charging two 50 mm-Hmm. . What did you learn in there? What happened in there that was helpful for you in what we're about to talk about in this next phase?
Brianna(19:40):
The mindset work. That was the biggest piece. The mindset work. And then having a community and understanding that not everybody thinks in the way of the status quo. And so, and understanding that, you know, you're gonna, you're a revolutionary. You're, you're, you're a revolutionary. You're a dreamer. You gotta find other revolutionaries and dreamers to who will do the, who will, who will support you in that. You can't listen to the voices of the collective. And again, like I keep, I'm gonna say it again. The mind, the mindset was huge. I do cognitive restructuring sheets every single day because my mindset stuff still shows up constantly. And that's the biggest piece. 'cause It's all just a bunch of lies that we tell ourselves.

(01:46):
Tiffany(20:14):
Yes,
Brianna(20:15):
Yes.
Tiffany(20:16):
So you, you raise your fee, you start doing the mindset work, you start realizing, oh, I'm not the only one who's rebelling against the system. I there are other people who are trying to, to get emancipated from the system. Mm-Hmm. That was not designed to work for us. Mm-Hmm. , you go into the world and then your life falls apart. We're gonna get to that in a minute. We're gonna, the life falls apart in a minute.
Brianna(20:40):
Cliffhanger, ,
Tiffany(20:42):
Cliffhanger. So now you're charging 5 95, is that what you told us earlier?
Brianna(20:46):
5 25 for an 80 minute session.
Tiffany(20:48):
5 25 for an 80 minute session. That is not quite an hour and a half, just under an hour and a half, correct? Mm-Hmm.
Brianna(20:55):
It's like 400 bucks an hour.
Tiffany(20:57):
Holy macro. Okay. That's, that's a quite a step.
Brianna(21:01):
Hmm.
Tiffany(21:02):

(02:07):
How many folks are you, how many folks do you see a week at that rate?
Brianna(21:06):
Two to four.
Tiffany(21:07):
Okay. And this, this I've been talking to a lot of people about referrals in 2024. Referral streams going down. Mm-Hmm. Difficulty of marketing. How many referrals do you typically get a month? How, how many people seek you out to start new treatment? Or do you even have room?
Brianna(21:27):
I don't, I'm, I'm full, pretty much full right now. Mm-Hmm. . I could maybe take one more person. I turn down pretty much every referral, almost every referral that comes in. I'm super, super picky about who comes in. So I probably get one to two referrals a week. I don't, I'm, I don't have a super strong referral stream. I don't need one 'cause of, I don't have to see a lot of clients.
Tiffany(21:49):
Did you say one to two a week?
Brianna(21:51):
Mm mm-Hmm. one to two more referrals a week, I think. Is it a lot? ? I don't know
Tiffany(21:56):
A therapist who, who would be, I would be happy to be getting one to two referrals a week of charging 400 or even 200 or two 50. Yeah.
Brianna(22:02):
Well they're not all viable referrals is the thing. Sure, sure. I didn't, I didn't know if that was a bad Okay, good. Maybe I'm doing something right. Then.
Tiffany(22:09):
Giving some calls. What do you do, do you do anything for marketing these days? What do you find to be effective in terms of bringing in new people?
Brianna(22:14):
I do Google ads. I'm on a couple, you know, I'm on Psychology Today, obviously. I'm on a Par Resis, the Par International Poly Resis Association's website. I did a couple trainings with them. So I'm sort of like someone who's considered vetted by them. And so it's shy bladder syndrome. It's a pretty niche subspecialty. So I do get quite a few people from there. 'cause There, I think there's only one other person in the state of Minnesota who is a specialist in that. So there are quite a few people looking for referrals from that. And like I said, do Google ads and then other professionals. Did I already say that? I don't remember.
Tiffany(22:48):
You did not. So other, other professionals refer to you? Mm-Hmm. . You do your own Google ads. Mm-Hmm. . And this website A par you Resis, which is a very, very clear niche that people really need help with. Mm-Hmm. . And you're one of the few people who actually can help with this. Yep. Beautiful. Yep. Alright, before we move into more of a deep dive, what two or three pieces of strategic advice would you give to someone who's listening to this right now? And she's, maybe she's on insurance and she's like, one 50. That's great. That's good enough. Mm-Hmm. . But, but there is that. Maybe it's not as loud as it was for you. 'cause She's better at shoving it down. But there is

(02:28):
Brianna(23:27):

Tiffany(23:28):
Saying, right, I don't really want this, this is not really what, what, this is not really working for me. Yeah. But you know, what else is there? Right? This is kind of what people do. What would you say to her?
Brianna(23:40):
Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest piece is the mindset piece and my mindset, and especially the second time around, this was the case. My, my mindset was because the second time around things were real bad. I think do, should I just say quick what it was? Or should, should I, do you want me just answer? So I was three months. Do you want me to answer that? Yeah, go ahead. I was three months behind on my mortgage. Like I was in danger of foreclosure. I was $500,000 in debt and I was on welfare. This was just, this was three year, was this three years ago? Two years ago. 2, 3, 2 years ago now, I think. And I like, that's why I decided to double down. I was like, I'm gonna double down my business. I can't, I can, that was another cha moment when I was like, I cannot do something else.
Brianna(24:24):
Like, I just can't make myself do it. And so my attitude and what I would recommend is it, for somebody else, like this is kind of the mindset I had to adopt. It was like, you have to fight for yourself in your dreams. Like John Rambo in First Blood, you like, do you take no prisoners? Failure is not an option. Like, this is all you got, man. You got one shot. Just, just do it. Like, it was just like this really intense, like fighting for myself. Like, it was a really, it was a huge act of self love and self-compassion, frankly. Like, it was just this like mother bear, like the, the, the shadow of love. Like this really strong we're gonna do. Like, I'm not letting you up on the streets. I'm not making you go back to those insurance companies. I know you hate it.
Brianna(25:10):
I will not make you do that. And that was my attitude. Like, it was like, I love myself so much and I hate this so much that I am not going back. And, and it wasn't so much like, I think I said before that I believed in myself. It was just that I hated that option more and I liked myself too much to make myself ever do that again. So that's gotta be, so I, I'm sure there's self-compassion work in that, and I've been doing a lot of therapy at that point. But there's, so that, that was kind of the number one mindset. And my strategic piece of that was I was gonna put 20 to 30 hours a week in mindset and marketing because I wasn't good at marketing. This was two years ago, and it's a lot of time. Right. And it was, I don't like doing things I'm not good at naturally.
Brianna(25:46):
And this was one thing I wasn't good at naturally. So it was like, no, this of the grindstone, you're gonna do this 20 hours a week, 20 to 30 hours a week, you're gonna do this work. And I did that. It took almost a year before I started getting in regular referrals and pulled myself outta my financial spot. And I got some miracles along the way that helped keep me going. Thank God for that. So that was the, that's the number one thing I would say. The number two thing is, what we already touched on earlier, is surrounding yourself with these dreamers and revolutionaries who are gonna challenge you to keep going when you don't believe in yourself, who are gonna push you, who are, who are gonna, when you have, you know, somebody in your family system, say something super unhelpful, you can call 'em.
Brianna(26:24):
And they could be like, that is not truth. Like, let's go back through this. You know? And people who have done what you haven't done, so they could, even if it's just one person, they can show you that it's possible. They're kind of like that little candle, you know, that little light that you can follow. That's another piece of it along with that is immersion. So it's kind of like you want a community and then you want this immersion in the new mindset because you have got 24 7 those unhelpful scripts running in your mind about how you weren't worth it. How, you know, you don't deserve more than this, whatever they were, especially if you came from an abusive system. Right? You've got a lot of really unhelpful scripts about your mindset. So you need to be immersing yourself in some, in a, in a mindset that's totally different than that, at least an hour or two every day.
Brianna(27:09):
Like, you've gotta have that in your ear, whether you're listening to a course, you're taking a podcast, reading a book, whether you're doing a consultation group with a really helpful that, that, that group we were just talking about. Because you've got decades of programming and it's not gonna be undone by taking, you know, just a course if it's really, if it's really ingrained or just doing a few thought records. Like you've gotta be doing this every single day because you're hearing that in your mind. You're hearing it in your system, and then you're hearing it from the collective. Right? So you've gotta have something to combat that. So that's, and then the FI I'm gonna give four, I guess the fourth piece of advice is to not be afraid to try esoteric options like I was mentioning, right? Try these things that everyone said are crazy because the reasons we don't use them aren't because they're not, first of all, a lot of them have science backing them, which a lot of people don't understand or don't realize. And second of all, we're the reasons we're not using them aren't because they're not effective. It's because of the church. It's because of intolerance and ignorance and that those aren't good reasons not to do something. Right. And so these are some really effective methods. Give them a try because they're gonna probably fill in the gaps where you're not, you know, fill in. What's missing?
Tiffany(28:17):
This is I'm gonna take another moment on some of these. Mm-Hmm, two, two of these pieces of strategic advice. The first with marketing, it's actually the first and the second combined. The mama bear, I'm not going back, I'm gonna go forward whatever it takes. Protection of yourself. Yes. And carrying that little part you Yes. Standing up for that little Brianna Yeah. Who was scared. Yeah. Who needed help. Yeah. And so you said, I'm doing 20 to 30 hours on mindset and marketing a week. Mm-Hmm. . I can imagine people in the audience feeling like, wow, I'm Rambo, but . Like, but there's this world and like, you're still yourself. You still gotta get up and drink your coffee. Like where do you even get into? So when you thought, I'm not going back. Yeah, I'm gonna start marketing, what did that even, what was your entry into marketing 20 hours a week? Where did you start? What did it actually look like to break into it?
Brianna(29:07):
Yeah. I started sending out letters to doctors. So doctors who were doing working with clients of polyuria. So urologists. One of the hardest things I did, the scariest things I did was to email and send letters to doctors at the Mayo Clinic, Mayo Clinic's, like an hour and a half from here. That was terrifying, right? Because it's the Mayo Clinic, right? What are they gonna think of me? Like, how, who am I to send letters to the Mayo Clinic? So that was a huge exposure for me. And so I sent a ton. I have, God, I I bet you I sent out 400 letters to doctors and I did a mailing, like a mailing in my area, did like a niche. It's a long story, but the Lake Minnetonka is one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in this area. And so I went to the Plat books and I found every single address on Lake Minnetonka, and you could see people's like, how much the house is worth. So I'd know if they'd be able to afford my services, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, at least a ballpark. And I did a mailing. I probably 400 people I sent letters to in that area too. Those are the couple of the first things I did
Tiffany(30:01):

(02:49):
Just dived in. I'm gonna get myself in front of these people. Okay. So some of my listening might say, well, I mailed out letters, or, what good does it really do? So what allowed you to, you didn't do 10 letters, you didn't do even 20, you did 400 writing. You found this neighborhood, you researched it, you sent, yep. Why, why did you keep, why, what were your indicators of success that said, I'm just gonna keep going? Or was it, how did you, what was your thinking around that?
Brianna(30:26):
Yeah, I didn't have indicators of success. In fact, I don't think I've actually, I think I got, I did get one referral, like an indirect referral from that. And then maybe, I think I had somebody download one of my products, but I didn't get, I didn't get a lot from that. Like, this was a whole year Tiffany, of just trying, like throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what would fit. Because I honestly, I don't think that there's a tried and true method for anybody. Like, I don't think that there's a, a perfect method that'll work for everybody. I think you have to keep trying and see what your voice, like, kind of how you can get your voice out in a way that people will hear it. And it's, I really think it's different for everybody. So that method wasn't actually, to my knowledge, super effective.
Brianna(31:02):
It also could be because I didn't believe in myself. You know, I believe a lot in energy and law of attraction. And so maybe I just didn't believe in myself enough the time. I don't know. But again, like I just kept trying things. I eventually I think it was a year later, I just kind of had an insight. I was up on a vacation up north in this place that's very spiritual for me. And I had a message come through and it was just like, oh, you should do this. And I, I had for forgotten that I had a specialty in Par Resis. I'd been seeing some of these clients, but I'd forgotten that I could mark, oh no, I take that back. 'cause I had, I take that back. I wasn't sending doc, I wasn't sending letters to these doctors that at that time, the par Resis doctors, I think I sent them to different doctors.
Brianna(31:38):
I sent, it doesn't matter. But the next year I had this kind of insight and I was like, oh, I forgot that I had this specialty. I got a ton of clients from that a little while ago. And so I, I started marketing to that specifically and I contacted the Par Resis Association and that's how I got put on their website. And so that was actually how I started getting clients once I remembered my specialty that I totally forgot, you know? So I really think it's kind of, it was very intuitive for me. It was tuning in and I was getting kind of like these little intuitive fits. Oh, that feels fun. That's a great idea. I love that. I'm gonna try that. You know, and that's eventually stuff started working.
Tiffany(32:10):
That's very interesting. I have, I have many thoughts about that, but we'll keep
Brianna(32:13):
Going. the
Tiffany(32:14):
Second question. If you can gimme just straight up tactically this Mm-Hmm. , when you, I, I'm really interested in this. Your awareness of reprogramming, having to fight against the you are not worth it. You're not good enough. What? You don't deserve this. Yeah. You said immersing yourself at least one or two hours in a podcast. Mm-Hmm. or a course or a book. What's one recommendation you would make for, for this is a way you could immerse yourself in that asking One of,
Brianna(32:40):
One of the best books I've read on this that's really great for deprogramming reprogramming is Outwitting The Devil by Napoleon Hill.
Tiffany(32:47):
Oh, huh.
Brianna(32:48):
Yeah. I've listened to it, I think two or three times at this point. I've had a lot of my clients listen to it. They really loved it too. I mean, I've read so many books. I'm trying, like, the Dynamic Laws of Prosperity were pretty good. That's, it's kind of similar. I I liked a lot of 'em because some of it's religious programming that we get just by living in this country. Even if you didn't grow up, I did grow up in a pretty religious family, but in, in rural America, which is very religious, but it's just, it's part of our culture. And so it was, some of these are helpful because like the religious ones were more helpful, pretty helpful for me because it was like, it was, it was putting it in this Bible language, basically the scripture language that had been like, stuck in my head.
Brianna(33:26):
And, and it changed it, it brought it kind of more, it, it told me that it was okay now. Like that wasn't actually what that meant. Here's what it means, and you're free and you, this isn't true about you. Because it was, it was kind of like, you know, putting it in the voice of the person who told you it. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's like getting an apology from an abuser almost. Mm-Hmm. So that was helpful. The Napoleon Hill book was really helpful. 'cause Again, it was, it was putting the language of the Bible, like the devil into the psychological language, which I could understand is like, oh, this is the ego. Okay. And I don't have to listen to this any, you know, it was just, that was really helpful.

(03:10):
Tiffany(34:01):
That's very helpful. It makes me think about, in our limb group, there was a group of students who were Christian, still Christian. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . And they actually joined a group together to actually do work, to look into the Bible and look into the religious history in a way that actually supported what they wanted to do, as opposed to kind of the veneer over it of we're bad and evil. Like, that's not what, that's, that is an interpretation of the scripture that serves a particular part of the population. Thank you. Thank That's another interpretation that can actually allow women, people of color to thrive. And so they got together to figure that out.
Brianna(34:30):
Yes. Yes. Exactly. That's exactly what these books do. Yeah. And there's some other really good ones. Like, women Who Run With the Wolves is a great one with mythology. I did. It's so good. It's so good. It's very empowering. Gosh, I listened to, I mean, I've taken a couple courses. I wouldn't recommend them, honestly, but I do still put them in my ear. 'cause It's helpful. And I don't, I'm too cheap to buy new courses. So like, I'm gonna get my money's worth out of these courses. We, that's something to unpack. Tiffany. We can just leave that
Tiffany(34:58):
One another time. Yep. So we, we have about, eh, 12 more minutes. So let me think about how best to navigate this. There are two areas I want to go. Yeah, let's take about five minutes. It's gonna be fast to talk about the falling apart. Yeah. And like, the lowest point for you, and the reason I wanna do this is because there are people listening who say, well, you can do it Brianna. Mm-Hmm. , you had a partner, or you had this, whatever they, whatever their story is, they say I'm a single mom. Yeah. Or, you know, I'm a I'm the primary breadwinner, or my partner has a hard time holding down work, so it's harder for me. Yeah. So can you give people a sense of what you fell into that you had to climb yourself out
Brianna(35:34):
Of? Yes. And let me just say one thing about that, because this is, 'cause you, we, we all, we get to spend the room time in the rooms with people, right? And we get to hear all of these belief systems. And I have, I've had people tell me that they couldn't do something because of their pri privilege. And people tell me they couldn't do something because they weren't privileged. These are just, these aren't, I know they feel real, but, but we excuses we're giving ourselves because there's other reasons underlying those that are the reasons why we can't do it. That's, you know, it's Tiffany, you always say like the question under the question and that's really what it is. But I will speak to what you asked me, which is actually, I kind of forgot exactly how you, could you say the question again really quick?
Tiffany(36:10):
Yeah. Take people to Oh yeah. Your, your script. Mm-Hmm. Your belief that you could have relied on as an excuse and you said, I'm not gonna use this as an excuse. I'm gonna move forward. Yeah. Even So what was those circumstances?
Brianna(36:24):
Yeah. So I, like I said, I got outta a domestic violence situation. And my income somehow overnight plunged 40%. Like the, I I went back and did the books maybe a year or so ago. 'cause I was just like, I feel like just overnight my income dropped. I mean, obviously heated wasn't making hardly any money, like I said, but my income. Right. That's so strange. And it dropped. It did, it dropped by 40%. And I, like I said, I, I had to move outta my house. I was living, so I took Lim, I was flying high and then crash like immediately after there, after that I had to move out and live in a hotel for six weeks. I had, he took all of my re almost all my retirement. Half the equity in the house. I had to pay for that for the second mortgage.
Brianna(37:05):
So I have like, like I said, $500,000 in debt. I eventually had to go on welfare. I was three months behind in the mortgage. I ma had to take out, I paid off all my credit cards at this point. I had to take on, I think got 60 grand worth of credit card debt that was within that 500 grand I was talking about. I was alone 95% of the time. Like I, 'cause part of it was covid. I had to say goodbye to my old friend group because they, you know, we seek out people who are like us. And I sought out abusive relationships from the time I, I started dating and my friends were codependents just like me, who sought out abusive partners. And it's just like being in recovery. You can't, you can't be around your friends who are still drinking. Right.
Brianna(37:43):
You can't be around your friends who are still in abusive relationships because they're gonna pull you back in and make you think it's okay. And they're gonna say things that are unhelpful and you're gonna be in their abusive marriage. Like, and their abusive partners are gonna abuse you too, through the, you know, it's, it's real up. And you have to, so I had to say goodbye to almost all my friends. I was a like, so it's like I'm going through this living hell. You know, this man was a psychopath and had sucked my soul out of me. And I was like, suicidal and just, I mean, so d so dis despairing. And I didn't have support anymore. You know, I'm alone in my house. My vehicle's breaking down. It was awful. And, you know you had asked, I forget kind of what you were, we were talking about how I kept, how I was able to just kind of move on. Is that, is that the original question? The
Tiffany(38:32):
Question was actually, you answered it. Which was what? Oh, I did, okay, good. What did the depths of despair look like?
Brianna(38:36):
Yes. That's right. That's right. This is what they looked like. This is real.
Tiffany(38:38):

(03:31):
Someone could use that to say, I need to lower my fees. I need to see 50 people a week.
Brianna(38:43):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Tiffany(38:45):
You, you went through all of this and still held to your conviction about where you were gonna go and what you, your ultimate dream was. Can you say anything about what allowed you to do that? To not give up, to not go back. I,
Brianna(38:59):
I could feel this question in me. I can feel in my soul. Yeah. I mean it, I I wanna cry. Like I just, I'm a survivor. Wasn't gonna let that get me . I, you know, I went through something really awful when I was a teenager and I actually, I thought about her, what a badass she was. And she was like, this isn't gonna get us. And I was like, you know what, this sucks. This is awful. But, but that was way worse. Like that was way worse. You thought, you thought you were gonna end up with this horrible like, drug dealer trapped in your hometown at a trailer park. Like this is our, like, look at where you are. You're on a lake. You got, you own your house still. Like it's, you're three months behind the mortgage, but you still are hanging onto that thing. And I thought about her and what she would say. And she would say, how do we make it here? This is amazing. I'm so proud of you and this is really hard and this sucks, but we're gonna do it. 'cause We've already been through way worse than this. You can handle it.
Tiffany(39:59):
I love it. How do we get here? How do we get this far? Like even
Brianna(40:02):
Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, a lot of our inner child healing work will have the adult go back and talk to the younger one. And this time it was my younger self. I had her come, 'cause I did, I did actually, my, the technique that I talked about that I have online, I did that. And I was like, okay, we're gonna go in and see what needs to be healed. And she showed up and I was like, oh, okay. And she, she, she kind, she gave me this advice and said, you got this. And so anytime I'm really struggling with where I'm at or getting really complaining, which is totally fine. It's like, look at what you've been through and survived. Like, she, you've got this. Like, she was such a badass. Like, take some of that energy. She was, she was just gonna do it. She was gonna try anything and she wasn't gonna give up.
Tiffany(40:44):
I love that. I love it. I love her. Yeah,
Brianna(40:46):
I do too. She's so cool. .
Tiffany(40:51):
So for this last question, we're gonna switch gears, huh? We could end on that. Normally we would end on
Brianna(40:58):
That .
Tiffany(41:01):
But I do wanna go into this last piece. I think it's very wise what you Mm-Hmm. what you observed, which was you started putting yourself in, in conferences or places with people from other industries, professionals from Mm-Hmm. from other industries. Mm-Hmm. . And you had an observation about the ways they took themselves and the profession seriously. Mm-Hmm. in a way that we don't as Mm-Hmm. we often don't in our Yeah. Industry. Can you say a little bit about those observations?

(03:52):
Brianna(41:31):
Observations? Yeah. Gosh, I have a lot of them. Let me see. Is there a specific one that you're kinda looking for? 'cause I could just kind of riff on it a little bit. But
Tiffany(41:39):
I think even speaking to the, with the, the, the paradigm, even if you could speak to the paradigm of when you're around therapists or when you've been in spaces with a lot of therapists, kind of the feeling and the vibe and the way people talk to each other and themselves versus when you're in a place with potentially lawyers or doctors or people who are Mm-Hmm. , we have as much in some cases education and training and experience as, and yet Yeah. They hold themselves in a different way. Can you talk about those, those different ways?
Brianna(42:07):
Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. I mean, like, the funny, like some of the just concrete observations are the food spread. You know, like, I, I don't know. Like I'm from the Midwest, so we're really big about food and they lay out a spread for you. And like, there's nothing that makes you feel more welcome than having all this food out, right? Like, it feels abundant. You feel cared for, you know what I mean? Like important. And so it's like at, there's a, there's a huge breakfast, like huge with omelets and bake like three different types of meat and cinnamon rolls and, and then there's snacks on the breaks and there's coffee and sparkling water and pop and juice and, and then there's a huge lunch, a huge snack. There's a plated dinner, there's a happy hour. Like it's, and there's always a happy hour. That was the thing I really liked is that there's always a happy hour.
Brianna(42:56):
It's like, thank you. No one wants to come to these things if you're sober. Like, we are shot by the end of the day. Like, give us a drink, please. And, and, and they were, you know, and the people were, again, like the clothes they were wearing were nicer. Like, sometimes you go into these psychology things and it looks like someone shopped at the government surplus store and you're going like, come on, we are professionals. Like, maybe just step it up a notch. And these people were dressed really well and, you know, carried nice bags. I mean, I'm, I'm big, I I like fashion as you can probably tell, but there's just, it, it's not, it's not necessarily the superficial piece of it. It's a symbol of how they see that. Like, they put themselves together, right? They, they cared about their appearance and that is important that you dress for the job you want.
Brianna(43:42):
That's the old adage, right? And these people were definitely doing that. And when I interacted with them, it was like, oh, we're so glad you're here. Thank you. We're always looking for mental health professionals. Tell us what you do. What's your specialty? They were very well versed in what we did. They very much respected it. And they were thrilled to have some people there because they wanted good referrals. And they was just like, I felt welcomed and I felt that my skills were valued. And I didn't feel that, I don't feel that when gonna go to psychology conferences. I feel like there's a big competition. It's kind of like a race to the bottom almost sometimes. Like who can martyr themselves more? Which there's only like, you can only do it once and we know how it ends. And I, it just, it was just so different.
Brianna(44:23):
And it wasn't like they asked a do, like, it wasn't super stuffy or anything like that either. They liked to have, they, they were, they liked to have fun, but it wasn't, I don't know, they just, it was, it was kind of like the, it was a feeling too that I got while I was around them. I felt more abundant. I felt respected. You know, we had, one of the conferences I went to is at this really fancy resort up north on a lake. That was their conference. You, you went and got a place on a lake and you hung out for three days and you like, had a golf outing and there was arts and crafts and a 5K. And people were mingling during the time. It wasn't just like, we're gonna do a bunch of trainings and then we're all gonna leave for the day. It was like, let's hang out, let's get to know one another. Let's network. Because networking is an important part of our job. It's how we get new clients. And it wasn't, I think it's psychology. We don't, we think like networking is a dirty word along with marketing. And it was just like, this is, we need to do this, so let's do it.
Tiffany(45:15):
We don't have so for, for those of you listening, we, you are listening to this on a podcast, but we also are recording. So one day we'll put out these recordings and you can see Brianna's face. But I, I, I wanna highlight, I, I think people can hear this in your voice too, the difference. You, you, you, you said it at the end and how you feel. Mm-Hmm. and I, and the reason I want I wanted you to talk about this is because I think I, I'm aware that therapists listening, we know what it feels like to go to therapist conference spaces. Mm-Hmm. Often. Mm-Hmm. , even if it's intellectually stimulating, it's, it's kind of, there's a grayness, there's a , a downness, there's a energy suck. There's often like one or two people in the room pulling everyone else down. Yes. There's a way that we kind of treat each other. Like we're all just, we're not really taking ourselves seriously as professionals. Yeah. And, and the way you talk about when you're in these other spaces with professionals who they have an internal sense of legitimacy. Mm-Hmm. . And they hold it and they look at other, they put it into others too. You are a legitimate professional, an educated master's degree, PhD, whatever it is. Licensed professional. Yeah. And you're treated as such. That is not often how we treat each other as therapists. It isn't, isn't I want to start.
Brianna(46:31):
It is not
Tiffany(46:33):
Expecting a higher level of Yeah. Professionalism from each other. And again, that doesn't mean I got tattoos. Right. I I have a ear crazy earrings. Yeah's not about that. It's about No. The value we hold ourselves. Yeah. Standard for value and how we hold our profession and the value of the work we're doing.
Brianna(46:50):
Yes.
Tiffany(46:50):

(04:13):
As professionals. That's what I wanna capture
Brianna(46:53):
In your Yes. Yes. It's completely, and when you started talking about what I got the image of, and I know everyone who listening can relate and know you can, Tiffany is just starting from the early days, the very first psychology course you went into the very, like, what building was it in? It was in a 1950s cinder block, like bunker building. Right. And if you had a lab, it was in the basement. Like, and there was stored in there. Like it was a storage closet. That was the psychology lab. Like, I mean, that, that is, and that, that captures that gray, sad windowless building that you're trapped in. You're from the time you start your undergraduate courses till the time you graduate with your graduate degree, you're in that basement. Right. And you've probably got radon poisoning and a bunch of other things are happening. I mean, and that's how, that's because social sciences aren't real sciences. They're soft sciences. And the law is real. Right. The law is real. Finances are real. And they get the, they get like the STEM buildings. Right. They have all the grant money. And so it's just, it carries through. And
Tiffany(47:54):
I think, I love, I love what you're talking about. It's when we were talking about emancipation earlier, we're talking about the ways we've internalized the system from the time we're little. Yeah. We're not of value. We go in and we continue to accept these crumbs. Insurance panels can, they can give us, not raises one of the opposite of a raises worse. Right. They can decrease our rates. And it's like inside of our minds now, are these cinder block
Brianna(48:17):
Prisons?
Tiffany(48:17):
Cinder
Brianna(48:17):
Block. Seriously. It's like those buildings are like prisons. Tiffany, I didn't thought, but oh my God, you're so right. Just
Tiffany(48:23):
Accepting it. And then we go into our practices. Yeah. And it's also what we do, the toxic agency mind. It's just a, it's in us now. Mm-Hmm. . And so really we're talking about this whole story. You're, you're sharing today your whole experience. I hear it as a journey of emancipating yourself from this internal prison. Mm-Hmm. . It's not, you're there. You had all the experience to put you there. Then you're surrounded in the same way you were in this abusive relationship where all your friends, where everybody says, this is what, just what we do in a way, this is what we do as clinicians to each
Brianna(48:51):
Other too. It is. It
Tiffany(48:52):
Is. And we're saying, we're we're not doing that. We're not doing that. Mm-Hmm.
Brianna(48:57):
Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, probably miss out because I'm not, I'm not getting the training that these psychologists are getting at these conferences, but it's not worth the cost. Right. Because it just, you're, you go back into that system and you get caught in that loop and then you spend days, days, months, years with some of the things that people said to you stuck in your head. Like, is that really true? And just like, you gotta pull, it's just like the abusive relationship. You gotta pull yourself out of that and get yourself away from those people. It, it's just, yeah. It's, it's not, it's not, it's very toxic.
Tiffany(49:29):
Not the way Brianna, it's not the way.

(04:34):
Brianna(49:31):
Nope. It's not the way. There is another way. Everyone.
Tiffany(49:33):
I'm only around limb therapist now through our star students. I don't, yeah. I'm actually going through my first like psychoanalytic event in a couple of weeks, in years. It'll be interesting to see. Oh my God. But I have really removed myself from the general Yeah.
Brianna(49:46):
Yeah.
Tiffany(49:46):
Insurance taking, barely making it $8 per session. Yep. World. I'm not, I cannot, I'm not interested in participating. No. So we can, we're creating something else. We're creating something else. Yes.
Brianna(49:56):
Yes, yes.
Tiffany(49:58):
Brianna, I know people are wanting to know more about you. They're listening. Yeah. I want, I want whatever she's having, I want I on what she's on. Where, what's the best way for people to be in touch with, with you?
Brianna(50:10):
Probably my website. So it's www.briannamannphd.com. I'm on Pinterest. I'm not a big fan of social media, but I do love Pinterest. So I actually have a print Pinterest account. It's at Brianna Mann PhD. And those are the, probably the two primary places that are best to find me.
Tiffany(50:27):
Great. I'm going to, we'll make sure to link to those in the show notes. Perfect. Thank you so much for coming and sharing,
Brianna(50:32):
Honestly. Yeah.
Tiffany(50:33):
Thank you for doing things differently and thank you to that little you who said we're not going back. Nope,
Brianna(50:40):

(04:55):
We're not doing that. We all,
Tiffany(50:42):
We all have been inspired by her, so thank you.
Brianna(50:46):
You're welcome. Welcome. Alright, thanks Tiffany.
Outro(50:55):
All right. Whatever you're doing, I want you to pause. If you're driving, pull over. If you're chopping a carrot, put that knife away. If you're making sweet love to your woman. Well, I mean, that's, that's, that's kind of flattering in a weird way. Huh. You can go, you can just go ahead and you can keep doing that. But for the rest of you, if you learn even just one thing of value today, please share this episode with even just one therapist who could benefit from the message. Here's how, if you're listening on iTunes, click on the episode and you'll see a small purple circle with three dots. Click on those dots and you're gonna see the option to share at the bottom of the list. Click that, and you can just go ahead and share it on Facebook, or you can even just text it to one therapist who you know needs to hear it. If you're listening on Stitcher, just tap the triangle icon on the upper right corner. It's next to the menu that displays your upcoming playlist. You'll see the option to share the episode you're currently listening to. Right on Facebook. Look, it's time to get the word out. We gotta spread the message. Thank you so much, and we'll join each other again soon.