August 5, 2025 • 42 mins
Anne Michelle Wand shares her journey from single mother and salon owner to international real estate developer in Panama, where she's creating innovative housing communities for seniors at half the price of equivalent U.S. options. Panama's beautiful Caribbean setting offers both investment opportunities and lifestyle advantages with its perfect year-round climate, friendly people, and growing middle-class economy.
• Started in real estate by subdividing a Boulder property into four lots after her divorce
• Owned and operated London Hair salon in Boulder while building her real estate portfolio
• Traveled through Central America before discovering Bocas del Toro, Panama's colorful archipelago
• Developed properties on multiple Panamanian islands, combining beach and mountain living
• Currently creating "Active Agers" communities for seniors through Passive Profit Partners
• Raising $7 million from investors to build senior housing that addresses a critical market gap
• Believes strongly in diversification - across countries, asset classes, and investment types
• Panama offers perfect 82° water, beautiful beaches, and easy access to mountain living
Connect with Anne Michelle Wand on LinkedIn or learn more about investment opportunities with Passive Profit Partners. Remember that diversification is key to building wealth and security for your future.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (00:02):
Hey everybody , Welcome to the most Dwanderful
real estate podcast ever.
I'm your host, Dwan BentTwyford, and I took my name Dwan
and Wonderful and I made a newname which is Dwan-derful, so
you are now part of theDwanderful real estate investing
world.
I'm at Dwanderful.
com world, I'm at dwanderful.
(00:29):
com, and our motto at Dwanderfulis people before profits.
So if that's something thatresonates with you, stay, listen
, watch, have some fun and thensubscribe, follow me and let's
be friends.
So I have a great guest today,Ann Michelle, and so we just
jump right in.
Yeah, I don't need this long10-minute intro, we just jump
straight in.
So, Ms Ann Michelle, how areyou today?
(00:49):
I?
Ann Michelle (00:51):
am absolutely wonderful, and yourself.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (00:54):
Perfect, and I love your background.
We were just talking.
You live in Panama.
Ann Michelle (00:59):
I do.
I live in a place called Bocasdel Toro, panama, which is an
archipelago of islands off theCaribbean side, right.
So what time is it there?
It is 1.23.
In the afternoon.
In the afternoon, yes.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (01:17):
Okay, so we're only an hour off on our
time.
Yeah, you're in Florida, right?
So we're right now.
Ann Michelle (01:23):
I'm in Colorado right now.
Oh, you're in Colorado, right.
Right, so we're right now.
I'm in Colorado right now.
Oh, you're in Colorado rightnow, so you're an hour the other
way.
Yes, we don't change times.
So during the summer we are anhour from we're in central time,
and then during the winter,we're on Florida time.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (01:43):
Yeah, I know I wish we would stop changing
time.
Yeah, honestly, it is soannoying and you know like I get
why they do it.
But it's like, honestly, statesdon't, the states that don't do
it, countries don't do it Likewhy do we change time?
Ann Michelle (02:00):
Yeah, I think we don't need it anymore and maybe
someday they'll quit doing it.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (02:04):
We don't need it anymore and maybe someday
they'll quit doing it.
I don't know Trump talks abouthe's going to undo it and I'm
like, yeah, but the personbefore that said that and the
person before that said that andthe person before that said
that, like, just change it andjust leave it Because it is.
It's just, I don't know.
It's weird.
Like Arizona doesn't do it.
It's like you know what, ifthey can do not do it, why does
(02:24):
the rest of the country have todo it?
It's annoying.
I do like the summer months,though, because it's late,
really dark.
I mean it's light, really late,so I do like that.
But, gosh, especially in themountains, it starts getting
dark at four.
It's like it's four.
Why is the sun setting rightnow?
(02:46):
Why is it dark up here?
Ann Michelle (02:49):
here in panama.
Um, it's the same 12 hourslight and 12 hours night all the
time, because we we're so closeto the equator, so it get the
sun rises at 6 30 and the sunsets at 630.
Nice, all the time, that wouldbe really nice.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (03:08):
That late night light Nice, I love that.
So I like to just start myguests off.
Tell us what you do and tell ushow to find you on social media
.
I'm going to ask you a bunch ofquestions and find out how you
came to be Miss Anne Michelle.
Ann Michelle (03:23):
Okay, well, I'm Anne Michelle Wand and I have a
company called Passive ProfitPartners, so that's my current
company, where I it's like afamily office where I gather
investors and we do projectsthat I feel are important to
produce in this day's world,because, especially in Panama,
(03:45):
but worldwide, there's ashortage of housing for seniors,
and I can get more into thatlater, but I'm a developer these
days, evolving through my realestate career, I'm now a
developer and I build homes andmultifamily projects, so people
can reach me.
(04:06):
I have a profile on LinkedInwith my name and Michelle Wand
and also a page for my company,passive Profit Partners.
That's probably the best way.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (04:17):
Okay, is Passive Profits on Instagram or
Facebook or?
Ann Michelle (04:21):
anything.
I do have an Instagram andFacebook profile, but I don't
post on it as much as I do onLinkedIn.
Yeah, I get you.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (04:30):
Okay, so I like the fact.
Okay, so you started offinvesting in the States.
Ann Michelle (04:35):
I did.
I did.
I started my real estate career, similar to you, as a single
mom.
Yeah, I got divorced and neededto figure out a way to support
my kids and myself and I got ajob to start with but discovered
real estate and the way Idiscovered real estate, because
I knew it was going to create aretirement account for me.
(04:57):
I was smart enough to know that, but I had to figure out how.
So I studied from people thatwere experts in the field and
learned how to do fix and flipsand subject to's and buy and
holds and rental property andall of that stuff.
Just, you know, very similar toyou.
(05:18):
But my first deal was an excessland deal.
I found a house on the edge ofBoulder, colorado.
It was in an area they calledDog Patch because the houses
were kind of run down and theywere on bigger lots one acre and
I was able to buy that house onthe acre and I found out that
(05:39):
if you subdivided it into fourlots you had to annex to the
city.
Then you could hook up to thecity services.
You could subdivide it intofour lots, one with the house.
So my kids and I lived in thehouse and fixed it up and I
divided it up into the four lots, sold three lots I had borrowed
the down payment for it.
(06:00):
Didn't have the down payment,paid that back and bought two
other properties and I said wow,I'm sold on real estate.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (06:08):
Yay, I know it's so crazy how, like going
through divorce, like for me toget into real estate, and then
it turns into like such a giantcareer.
It's like I never would haveimagined that this would be my
life.
Ann Michelle (06:22):
Well, I didn't either.
In the beginning, I started outactually putting myself through
beauty school and becoming ahairdresser and then starting my
own salons.
So while I was doing the realestate on the side, I was
running these two salons, andvery successfully, and that's a
really another great story of mybeginning.
Very close to when I bought thehouse, I found a little shop
(06:48):
called London Hair.
I don't know if you've everbeen in this position, but when
I had my job as a hairdresser,my boss didn't appreciate me.
Have you ever had a job whereyour boss didn't appreciate you?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (06:59):
So many.
That's why I have to work formyself now exactly so many.
Ann Michelle (07:06):
So my boss didn't appreciate me and I went looking
for a better opportunity and Ifound this lady that owned
London hair and she'd owned itfor 17 years and it was in a
little house on the main streetof Boulder and it was really
unique because she had brought aLondon phone booth from London
and planted it in the front yard.
(07:28):
Oh, so fun.
And the house itself was ahistoric house that the CU's
first woman faculty member hadlived and died in.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (07:38):
Wow.
Ann Michelle (07:40):
Yeah, it was really interesting and it was a
duplex and she had her littlesalon and half of it and the
little old lady that then livedin the house had a life estate
on the other side.
So I bought the business fromher.
I had just sold one of the lots, so I had a down payment for
the business.
I paid her off in about threeyears and then she also owned
(08:03):
the house, but I had to continuewith the life estate for the
little old lady and then shealso owned the house, but I had
to continue with the life estatefor the little old lady and I
did that happily.
So I bought the building fromher too and she financed it
because she was of an age ofwanting to retire and she was
willing to own her finance.
And it took me 10 years to paythat one off.
In the meantime the little oldlady died and I expanded the
(08:25):
salon and added nails andmassage and later in my career,
when I decided to go full timeinto real estate, sold that
whole thing.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (08:38):
That was a good start, though, because you
were doing here what you liked.
You built a little business andhad some property and sold that
, and then when I love thatstory and then went full time
into real estate.
That's amazing.
Ann Michelle (08:50):
Yeah, that was in Boulder right, that was in
Boulder, colorado.
Yes, it's good for you Good foryou.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (08:56):
Yeah, I mean it's not easy, you know, as a
single mom, buying a salon andrunning that and taking care of
the kids.
How many kids did you have?
Ann Michelle (09:05):
I had two boys.
They were nine and ten when Igot divorced.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (09:10):
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean my daughter was eightmonths old, so I guess you know
not that divorce doesn't soaffect kids.
She just always grew up withjust me, so she doesn't know any
other way.
But you know you still don'thave a father in the home and
you know divorce is an uglything.
Ann Michelle (09:26):
But sometimes out of the ashes.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (09:28):
You know the phoenix rises Exactly All right.
So when you were doing your asI want to talk about your
developing and stuff like thatso then you were into real
estate for how many years Beforeyou said, hey, I'm going to
move to Panama and I'm going tostart building and doing things.
Ann Michelle (09:49):
Right.
Well, I always had this dreamabout living on the Caribbean
Ocean since I was a kid.
I wanted to live on theCaribbean, and when I went to
college, I chose colleges thatwere on the ocean, and ended up
going to the University of Miami, in Florida, oddly enough, but
(10:11):
ended up in Colorado with mykids and my marriage.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (10:14):
So, um, uh-oh , I lost my train of thought,
that's okay, we're talking aboutgetting from the real estate to
starting, to the selling andthe developing.
Ann Michelle (10:22):
So after I sold the salons, I went full-time
into real estate and I got myreal estate license and I became
an agent, mainly because Iwanted to be able to find
properties as soon as they, youknow, on the MLS, or before they
got on the MLS.
And I did, and I did, and Icontinued to do, to invest in
single family homes.
At one point I owned fivesingle family homes.
At one point I owned fivesingle family homes in Boulder.
(10:44):
I had a duplex in Longmont anda 44 unit apartment building in
Denver, and so at that point Idecided to sell some of those
things and try my hand atvacation homes.
And I bought a vacation homewith my sister in Hawaii, on the
(11:06):
island of Hawaii, yeah, and itwas a little cottage on a hill,
not on the ocean, but reallysweet, with two smaller cottages
that we could rent out.
So spent the next five yearsvisiting there with my sister
and sometimes without my sister,renting out the cottages, and
(11:29):
ended up enjoying Hawaii.
But it wasn't the right placefor me my place in the sun.
Right Now I love Hawaii though.
It's great there, it's great,it's great to visit, but I
didn't end up staying there.
It um, but I didn't end upstaying there, sold that and
then started looking at.
(11:49):
What hawaii made me realize wasthat I wanted to be closer to
the, to the us mainland, youknow, because I want to be visit
my family easily.
I wanted it to be a lessexpensive place to live, but
still on the caribbean, withfriendly people.
I didn't find find theHawaiians terribly friendly.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (12:08):
The people that are born and raised there
are not that funny to outsiders.
Ann Michelle (12:11):
Exactly I saw that too, with a little bit warmer
temperatures, because the oceantemperature in Hawaii is 78 and
my favorite is about 82.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (12:25):
You can relate.
Oh yeah, no, I'm a beach girl,so I am a beach girl.
Sometimes I go to Florida, toour house, in like July and
August, but it's so hot I'm likeit's baking, it's perfect.
I can paddleboard on the lakeBecause in the winter I mean, I
love it in the winter too, butthe water is too cold.
Ann Michelle (12:52):
Yeah, word on the lake, because in the winter I
mean, I love it in the wintertoo, but the water is too cold.
Yeah, yeah, here in Panama youcan swim year-round in 82 degree
water.
It's just beautiful.
So I could dream I nexttraveled by.
You know, I was single for along time.
After my marriage and my, Itraveled with my girlfriend and
we decided to travel all throughCentral America seeing if there
was a place where we wanted tobe.
And we went to Puerto Rico, wewent to Nicaragua, we went to
Guatemala, we went to Belize, wewent to Costa Rica three times.
(13:16):
It was really hot in the 90sand we thought it was going to
be it, but somehow every time wewent to Costa Rica we either
didn't find what we were lookingfor.
It was either too remote or tooexpensive for our budget at the
time.
So I saw this little ad in anewspaper I used to subscribe to
and it said cheapest land inthe Caribbean.
(13:39):
And it happened to be in Panama, bocas del Toro, panama.
And we were in Costa Rica atthe time.
So we decided to take a sidetrip, go to Panama and see what
happened.
And the rest is history.
We arrived there on the littleplane, those puddle jumpers I
don't know if you've traveledlike that, you probably have and
get it.
Go in at this small airport,get off the plane and look
(14:02):
around, and it already lookedinviting.
The temperature was perfect,there was breeze, these little
shacks were everywhere, um,colorful, you know, very
colorful.
Reminded me so much of key westin the old days.
Like people don't know what areyou, they don't, they don't
(14:22):
know you know how old you are,how old am I you?
How old are you I'm?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (14:29):
74.
Okay, so I'm 66.
So we remember Key West when itwas like Key West, yes, you'd
go, and it was like shorts andflip-flops and it was casual and
everybody was amazing and itwas so it was my favorite.
At one point I was living inFort Lauderdale and I thought,
(14:50):
you know, I'm going to move toKey West Because the people and
then I don't know what happenedover the last decade.
It just got fancier and fancierand they got rid of all the old
things.
And now you go there and I meanI drive the whole place.
I don't recognize anything.
Yeah, but in the day it waslike I know what you mean?
It was just.
It was like just the greatestplace.
(15:11):
Everybody loved everybody andeverybody just hung out and you
just make friends everywhere andthose conk houses, it's like oh
.
Ann Michelle (15:23):
I used to love Key West in the old days and so I
liked it right away and ended upbuying some land, two pieces of
land one on a little islandcalled Salarte because there are
nine islands here where peopleinhabit and you get everywhere
by boat and it was so excitingand adventurous to think about
(15:45):
and to want to do.
And then I bought a littlepiece of commercial land in the
town of Bocas, called Bocas Town.
For several years after that Iwent back and forth from Boulder
to Panama, visiting whenever Icould and just enjoying it, you
know, on every vacation.
And the vacations got longerand longer and I still was
(16:06):
operating my business, which wasreal estate in Boulder.
And lo and behold, a year afterI bought those two properties,
somebody convinced me to go tothe mountains of Panama.
And I didn't want to go becauseI said, you know, I lived in
the mountains, I'm from Colorado, I've had enough mountains.
(16:29):
But they said you've got to go,it's just absolutely stunning.
So I went and I went to a place.
A guy who had moved there anAmerican expat who moved there
and married a Panamanian wasfrom moved from Breckenridge.
I think he was originally fromCalifornia but he moved from
Breckenridge, a tech guy, and hehad bought an 80 acre coffee
(16:50):
farm up there and he wasdeveloping it into a gated
community with about I don'tknow 20, 30 homes and a river
running through it and coffee itwas a coffee plantation and he
left a lot of the coffee on thehillsides, so it's just gorgeous
.
And he put a nine hole golfcourse along the river.
(17:11):
That sounds fabulous.
Just platting the roads at thetime and I couldn't resist.
The prices were so incredible.
I bought a three bedroom villato be built.
They build it for you on thethird hole of the golf course.
Even though I don't play golf,it didn't matter.
(17:32):
And it was beautiful up there.
It looks just like the RockyMountains, but in tropical
foliage.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (17:38):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no I love the
tropics.
So is that how you decided toget into being a developer?
Ann Michelle (17:46):
Well, no, I didn't develop for many years after
that.
For a while we just we wouldsplit our time three ways.
Now we'd be in Boulder and thengo to Boquete, which is where
this little mountain town is,and then down to Bocas three
months, three months and sixmonths in Colorado.
Well, gradually, we decidedthat we wanted to be, because by
(18:09):
this time I was remarried.
So my husband and I, and ourkids are all grown.
My mom passed away and all that, and I was waiting for a lot of
that to happen to be able tomake a move full time, and so my
mom passed away in 2006.
And then the crash happened in2008,.
Right, and that was thecatalyst that said you know what
(18:31):
We've been waiting to move toPanama.
This is the sign.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (18:35):
Let's do it Good for you we did?
Ann Michelle (18:38):
We moved to Panama 2009-10 and started building on
the lands that we had purchased.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (18:49):
So you had said that some of your interest
was housing for elderly.
Tell me about that.
Ann Michelle (18:55):
Well, as I've developed my career in here in
Bocas del Toro, Panama, I get tosee what goes on and keep tabs
on the market right, Much likeyou probably do in Florida and
maybe Colorado and for a longtime I kept tabs on Colorado too
.
But I actually ended up.
(19:16):
When I first moved here therewas I could see a boom happening
and I couldn't resist.
I opened a real estatefranchise here and ran it for 10
years and had a lot of funshowing property in a boat to
everybody.
So I still wasn't a developer,except I was developing my own
properties the little commercialproperty where we had offices
(19:37):
and my girlfriend, who was mypartner, had a spa and we had
some rental cabins and thingslike that.
And then my husband and I builta house our own house on about
an acre of ground that we haveon the island of Salarte.
So after 10 years of running thefranchise I decided, OK, it's
(19:58):
time for me to try to retireagain.
You know I see time to be ableto do that.
And I sold the franchise to anice young couple who want to
take it to the next level.
They're doing very well andthey rent from me.
So that worked out perfect andI started building one house a
(20:19):
year to sell just to have fun,keep myself busy, and there was
a shortage of houses in the$200,000 to $400,000 range.
So with me just building onehouse and selling it per year, I
did pretty well.
I'm on my third house right now.
I just put it for sale, I thinka couple months ago, and
(20:43):
watching the market change andwatching all the people that
came here 20 years ago age andstart to need services and there
is no assisted living herewhatsoever, really nothing, it's
even.
It's not.
There is some in panama city,which is an eight hour drive
from here or a one hour flight,but in our little town and in
(21:05):
the other little towns, likeboquete, there's nothing said.
What if I built a littlecommunity for elders in this
area and offered those services,both independent living and
mildly assisted, to get startedand people could have a higher
standard of living, they couldthrive in their elder years, at
(21:28):
half the price?
You can live in the States orbuy this kind of thing in the
States.
And that's my next project isI'm gathering investors and I'm
going to be building this littlecommunity here in Bocas.
And in Boquete as well, if itgoes well.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (21:44):
So the Passive Partner Profits.
What is that?
Is that people that are lookingto invest with?
Ann Michelle (21:50):
you.
Yeah, that's the company that Iformed to be able to accept
investors.
It's an LLC, with me as thegeneral partner and the investor
partners would be the limitedpartners.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (22:03):
So are you going to be doing syndications
with that?
Ann Michelle (22:08):
I don't call it a syndication, it's, you know,
it's not because I'm not in theUS, it's more like a family
office.
These partners are going to bemore like my family, where we're
going to group together andbuild, do a property together,
except I'll take the lead on it.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (22:25):
Nice, yeah, you know I that is so neat that
you're doing that in Panama.
I didn't realize in some ofthose countries that they don't
have places.
What did the seniors do?
Ann Michelle (22:38):
Yeah, well, the Panamanian culture in the past
has always taken care of theirelderly at home, and maybe it
was that way in the UnitedStates 100 years ago too right.
And maybe it was that way inthe United States 100 years ago
too Right.
But as the people get moreeducated and they start
traveling and becoming becausethe middle class here in Panama
is developing, unlike the UnitedStates where it's dwindling
(23:00):
Right here it's developing andthere's a lot of businesses that
need to open and that areopening, and the middle class is
growing and they are justdemanding certain services, and
I think that elder housing isgoing to be one of them in the
future.
So it will be not only forexpats but for the educated
business owners of Panama aswell.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (23:21):
Yeah, I love it.
My husband and I have talkedabout somewhere down the road.
It's like we should.
We should open up some seniorliving where everyone and like
instead of like you know howthey play, like the quiet music.
It needs to be like RollingStones and Led Zeppelin and let
them all smoke pot like they didwhen they were, you know, in
the 60s, and have like a rockand roll senior living, like
(23:46):
here's your weed, here's yourwine, here's your whatever we're
playing, here's your whateverwe're playing, you know.
Uh, yeah, the that's a good ideathe rolling stones and like
just like all the people intheir 60s that are, you know, in
the 60s that were like in their20s.
I'd let them relive that intheir older age absolutely I, I.
Ann Michelle (24:07):
That's a great idea.
That's a great idea.
I don's a great idea.
I don't know that I'm going todo the theme with weed and
everything.
It isn't legal here yet Igraduated high school in 77.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (24:16):
So my 20s were really in the 80s and it
was disco and that was my 20s.
People that were in their 20s,like in the 60s, they just
(24:39):
partied.
They were like hippies andflower children.
They went to Woodstock.
It's like how much fun wouldthat be to let them live their
elder years.
Ann Michelle (24:48):
That was me, that was me.
That was me.
I graduated in 1969 andWoodstock was 30 minutes from my
house where I grew up.
Did you go to Woodstock?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (24:59):
Uh-huh, you went to Woodstock, did I went to
Woodstock?
Oh man, I tell you, I look atthat and I'm just like that had
to have been such a once in alifetime thing.
It was.
Ann Michelle (25:10):
It was absolutely a once in a lifetime thing.
I didn't stay the whole time,but I did enjoy myself.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (25:16):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, yeah, no.
I can imagine I have somefriends that used to go like oh
yeah, we dropped acid, we hungout, we did this, we did that.
And again, I'm not like prodrugs, I don't smoke weed, all
that stuff's legal, I don't doany of that.
But it's like you know, if youcould like relive those years
and at the other end I feel likepeople would be so much happier
.
Ann Michelle (25:36):
I think that some people want to do that.
My community is going to becalled active agers because I
want people to thrive in theirelder years, you know, and
create the next blue zone.
You know, eating healthy foodand doing great activities and
immersing yourself in theculture and stuff like that.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (25:54):
Yeah I think that I mean my mom's 88, so she
lives in, uh, assisted livingand like, see, I guess it's a,
she lives in a senior buildingand they have like a nurse on
staff.
But you know you liveindependent and but I see her
not not being as active and notgoing to the.
They have activities every day.
She doesn't do as much stuff asyou and she's like, oh, maybe
(26:15):
I'm tired, not like my 98 yearold aunt.
And my aunt she lives at herhouse and she goes walking every
day for a mile, every day.
98 years old.
Just you know, wow, like it's.
And if you don't really putpeople in a situation to really
stay active, they decline somuch.
Exactly.
Ann Michelle (26:34):
Exactly so.
No, I don't want to make itlike a big apartment building or
anything like that.
It wouldn't fit here.
It'll be a little tiny home sopeople can have privacy, but
it'll have a big central areafor activities and lots of
activities for people to do,including alternative therapies
and pickleball, and a nicelibrary and, you know, a game
(26:57):
room and all kinds of fun stuffand great food.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (27:01):
That sounds like that'd be really fun.
After you get a couple of thosebuilt, let me know.
Maybe Bill and I will invest ina couple of those over there.
Ann Michelle (27:08):
Well, you never know, I will let you know once I
get started.
I have some investors comingdown in a couple of months six
to eight weeks that were andI've already got the land picked
out to show them.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (27:22):
So I think that sounds like a really super
fun thing to do, and you knowyou're at that age too where you
want to retire.
But so you're building anddeveloping as you want to stay
active.
Ann Michelle (27:36):
I want to stay active, that's what keeps me.
And you know, I may end upliving there in my 90s, who
knows, you might.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (27:43):
You might you never know you might be like,
hey, this is amazing, I'm goingto live over there just because
it's fun.
Ann Michelle (27:53):
Well, right now, yeah, our house is over on
Pierpost, over the sea.
You know, we have a house thatwe built right over the ocean,
so I get to look at the oceanevery day and wake up to it, and
it's built a story up.
So you go up 13 stairs and it'sgreat.
For now it keeps me fit andhealthy, but maybe not forever.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (28:13):
I don't know.
You seem pretty healthy to me.
I am very healthy.
I feel like you're thrivingaway.
Ann Michelle (28:20):
I am, I am.
I take no medications and I'mvery active every day.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (28:24):
So Nice, I love it.
I love it and I think whatyou're doing is amazing.
So how can people at thewonderful universe, how can we
help you reach your next goal?
Ann Michelle (28:36):
Reach my next goal .
Oh, my goodness.
Well, I'm at the stage whereI'm open for, you know, people
who are interested in investingat this stage, being part of the
company and the founders of itcompany and the founders of it.
You know I do have peopleinterested, but I'm.
You know I need to raise a $7million, so Okay.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (28:59):
No, I mean, I always.
That's one of the things that Itell you.
I like to ask everyone Iinterview is what can we do to
help you reach your next goal?
And if you need people toinvest and invest in Panama, you
need to raise $7 million.
Come on, guys, I'm always upand around with money.
Right there you go.
Ann Michelle (29:17):
I believe it's a great diversification for people
living in the United States whowant to diversify their real
estate investments.
You know, you might, you'rediversified and I have a little
booklet that I wrote seven signsthat you're over-invested in
the United States.
You know so that you shoulddiversify more.
And why not in Panama, whereit's up and coming and the
(29:40):
economy is good and the canal,you know, holds it all together.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (29:44):
Yeah, yeah, I've been to Panama.
Well, just on cruises.
I think I've been there twice,and one time I was, I took my
dad on a cruise and we wentthrough on the cruise ship, went
through the whole canal.
It's like, yeah, that was such,that's such a neat thing, and
we got off and went shopping andI don't know where we went
thing.
We got off and went shopping.
I don't know where we went, butthey took us to some like a
(30:08):
giant mansion that had a giantpool and people were serving
food and everything.
I don't even know where thisplace is, so beautiful.
Ann Michelle (30:14):
Yeah, it's a stunning country.
I think everyone should atleast come and visit because
there's so many places you cango and enjoy different types of
living City living in PanamaCity, where two of the four
million people live, countryliving on either of those farms
(30:34):
or the mountains, and coastalliving on either of the two
oceans, the Pacific Ocean or theCaribbean Ocean.
So you've got a lot ofdiversification just in what
people may want.
If it's too hot for you on thebeach, you just go three hours
into the mountains and you'vegot the 75 degree weather
instead of the 85.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (30:53):
Now I'm a beach girl.
I'll be visiting you at thebeach, yeah, yeah.
So let me ask you some personalquestions.
What's your favorite band ofall time?
Oh, that's easy the.
Ann Michelle (31:05):
Beatles.
I love the Beatles.
They are the best band of alltime.
I really.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (31:12):
I, I, I agree , my husband and I, we have four
grandkids, so they're not,they're 10, nine, five and three
.
So we are the ones teachingthem about music, and I, so we.
So we started off like twoyears ago.
Now we buy them, like they havea little cd player, they have
like 50 cds each, but you knowthey're kids and we don't want
(31:33):
them like on their phone andusing, you know, the internet
and stuff, and uh.
So we started off with musicfrom the 70s, because that was
like the last decade where therewas no cursing in all the music
, because by the 80s they werecursing and now they just say
like, oh, the music is so vile,I'm just like ugh.
Ann Michelle (31:52):
It's so different.
Everything then was about loveand peace.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (31:58):
We just bought them all Beatles CDs and
they are in love with theBeatles and so we do the Beatles
.
We got him some John Denverstuff, any band from the
seventies, but not not like thestones and Aerosmith.
Because they're kids, that'slike a little bit too hard, I
feel like, for them.
But I told my husband theBeatles is safe, every song.
(32:19):
They were unbelievably amazing.
They changed the world.
And my grandkids wear beetlest-shirts and they go to school
and they talk to the teachersabout music.
My 10 year old and she lovesqueen.
So she talks to her teachersabout queen, tom petty and the
beetles and they're like how oldare you?
She's like oh, it's my papi,mimi, it's the best music ever.
(32:41):
That that's who they love.
They love it.
I don't know.
It's like and it's innocentmusic.
It's like things were just sosimple.
Then, yeah, what's yourfavorite food?
What do you love to eat?
Ann Michelle (32:56):
my favorite food watermelon.
I love fruit.
We have such wonderful tropicalfruits here, and so I eat
watermelon, mango and pineappleevery day.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (33:10):
Every day.
Okay, so now do you salt yourwatermelon?
Salt or no?
Ann Michelle (33:14):
salt, no salt, I don't have to.
It's really sweet.
Oh it is.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (33:19):
I love, I have always.
We, I, we, oh it is, I havealways.
We grew up in the country so weraised watermelons and pumpkins
and cantaloupe and all that Idon't know.
My dad or something was likehey, put some salt on that.
So I have eaten watermelon withsalt on it my whole life.
Ann Michelle (33:36):
I have eaten it that way and my understanding
was that the salt was to make ittaste sweeter.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (33:41):
I know my grandkids I only have one
grandkid that likes it that way.
The rest are like no, it's goodlike it is.
No, it is good like it is.
It is good like it is Fromchildhood.
I just said that I'm like thisis so yummy this way.
What's your favorite time ofday?
When are you at home?
Ann Michelle (33:57):
Sunrise is my favorite time of day.
I am a morning person all theway and I have my morning
routine that I mostly don't letanything interrupt.
You know, I wake up at sunriseand first thing I do is meditate
to get my day started right,yeah Well it's beautiful where
you're at.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (34:14):
So the last question for you, Ms Ann.
Michelle, I always like myguests to leave us with a word
of wisdom, but just one singleword oh my goodness.
Ann Michelle (34:30):
Well, diversify.
Okay, don't put all your eggsin one basket okay.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (34:38):
So what we do in the dwandaful universe is
every week I have a, you know, Ido one podcast a week and I
tell everyone, take that word,write it down, stick it on your
mirror and every day for thatweek say diversify, diversify,
diversify.
So that's our official word ofthe week in Dwan-Diful.
And so what is diversify?
Because you kind of said it,but what does it mean to you,
(35:00):
what it?
Ann Michelle (35:00):
means to me.
I think of it in the world ofreal estate and investment,
because everyone wants to have agood retirement right Everyone
but they don't always know howto get there and so many people
get to retirement age and don'thave enough saved.
But if you follow very simpleprinciples with financial
(35:21):
education which I'm sure youteach and I don't teach formally
, but I teach people within mysphere that kind of thing and
you have your buckets for savingand investments and emergency
funds and all that stuffVacation fund very important too
, right and then you begininvesting, first maybe in your
(35:44):
backyard where you're learningabout everything, and then maybe
diversifying out into othercities in your state and then
maybe even out of state in otherstates in the point in my
career, and then for me the nextlogical step was to go out of
(36:08):
the country, abroad, and I couldhave invested in Italy, I could
have invested lots of Portugal,lots of places, but I happened
to choose Panama and I thinkthat people should consider
investing outside the UnitedStates, whether it's Panama or
another foreign country thatthey think is really great.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (36:27):
Yeah, I have to work so hard with investors
now to get them just to investoutside of their state.
Exactly, I'm like we live inColorado.
So, like up here where I live,my son just bought a house in my
subdivision.
They're $850,000.
So it's like if you want to buythat and you have it for a
rental, you know if someone, ifit's empty for two months can
(36:50):
you even afford to keep up withit.
And my husband is from clinton,iowa, which is right on the
mississippi river and it's very,very midwest.
You can buy a really nicethree-bed, two-bath house for
like 60 grand.
They rent for 1,200.
So I'm like tell me, listen,you can't always invest where
you live.
Like California is expensive,colorado is so expensive,
(37:16):
phoenix, some of these places.
I'm like go to the Midwest,just go like to Iowa and Ohio
and go to the Midwest where youcan buy cheaper things and get
in a good area, goodneighborhood and do that.
So it's like pulling teeth toget people just to invest out of
their own state.
We can send them your way.
Like Zayla said, I have someonein Panama that will hook you up
all the way and put some moneydown there.
Ann Michelle (37:38):
Exactly.
And so if you put your eggs inall the different baskets, like
we're saying, choose placesother than, if you especially if
your backyard is expensive,like you were saying totally
agree with you, then when adownturn does happen, you still
have something that's probablygoing to be OK.
Yeah, and a little bit in thestock market too.
(37:58):
You've got to have a little biteverywhere A little crypto.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (38:01):
I like crypto .
A little bit, a little bit, alittle crypto I like crypto a
little bit.
Ann Michelle (38:04):
So a little crypto , a little bit of crypto yep, a
little of everything, a littlebit of gold yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's one thing.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (38:10):
We have so much gold and silver and so, and
not at my house for any listing, so right, but you gotta have
you.
just you just need to have a lotof stuff, because you never
know what's happening.
Everything the power grid goesdown, your crypto and your
dollar bills aren't going to beworth anything.
You need to have some gold andsilver.
So you just got to diversifyinto many things.
(38:33):
So I really love getting toknow you, ms Anne.
Michelle, I would considercoming down in a couple of years
and maybe helping you with someinvesting down in Panama.
It sounds amazing.
Ann Michelle (38:43):
Oh, I think we'll be well on our way by then and
you'll be very welcome.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (38:47):
Yes, I want to be in that beach air all the
time yeah we've got fivebeautiful beaches.
Ann Michelle (38:53):
You know there's, there's it's incredible, there's
nine islands and every islandhas a windward side and a
leeward side, and on the leewardsides of the islands is all
mangrove that, you know,supports the environment, and on
the windward sides of theisland is where the beaches are.
So they're not everywhere.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (39:14):
If you know what I'm saying.
Yeah, I know exactly.
It sounds like you found abeautiful spot for yourself.
We found a great spot All right, everyone.
We'll be back next week.
Don't forget dwonderfulcom.
And don't forget PassivePartner Profits.
Also, look for Anne, michelle,it's A-N-N-E, m-i-c-a-g-l-l-e,
wand, w-a-n-d on LinkedIn andthink about doing some investing
(39:37):
outside of the country.
I know many, many, many peoplethat are my age right now that
are moving to Panama and PuertoRico and places like that.
So keep it in mind, everybody,and thank you, my darling, for
being on.
You're just so great, and thefact that you went to Woodstock,
I was like ugh, we're going tosit down one day and you have to
(39:58):
tell me all about it.
It sounds amazing and we'll beback next week.
Same one day, and you have totell me all about it.
It sounds amazing and we'll beback next week.
Same time, same channel.
And remember that the truth isin the red letters.
All right, everybody.
Have a good week.
My name is Michelle, thank you,and we'll be back next week.
Hey everybody , Welcome to the most Dwanderful
real estate podcast ever.
I'm your host, Dwan BentTwyford, and I took my name Dwan
and Wonderful and I made a newname which is Dwan-derful, so
you are now part of theDwanderful real estate investing
world.
I'm at Dwanderful.
com world, I'm at dwanderful.
(00:29):
com, and our motto at Dwanderfulis people before profits.
So if that's something thatresonates with you, stay, listen
, watch, have some fun and thensubscribe, follow me and let's
be friends.
So I have a great guest today,Ann Michelle, and so we just
jump right in.
Yeah, I don't need this long10-minute intro, we just jump
straight in.
So, Ms Ann Michelle, how areyou today?
(00:49):
I?
Ann Michelle (00:51):
am absolutely wonderful, and yourself.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (00:54):
Perfect, and I love your background.
We were just talking.
You live in Panama.
Ann Michelle (00:59):
I do.
I live in a place called Bocasdel Toro, panama, which is an
archipelago of islands off theCaribbean side, right.
So what time is it there?
It is 1.23.
In the afternoon.
In the afternoon, yes.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (01:17):
Okay, so we're only an hour off on our
time.
Yeah, you're in Florida, right?
So we're right now.
Ann Michelle (01:23):
I'm in Colorado right now.
Oh, you're in Colorado, right.
Right, so we're right now.
I'm in Colorado right now.
Oh, you're in Colorado rightnow, so you're an hour the other
way.
Yes, we don't change times.
So during the summer we are anhour from we're in central time,
and then during the winter,we're on Florida time.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (01:43):
Yeah, I know I wish we would stop changing
time.
Yeah, honestly, it is soannoying and you know like I get
why they do it.
But it's like, honestly, statesdon't, the states that don't do
it, countries don't do it Likewhy do we change time?
Ann Michelle (02:00):
Yeah, I think we don't need it anymore and maybe
someday they'll quit doing it.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (02:04):
We don't need it anymore and maybe someday
they'll quit doing it.
I don't know Trump talks abouthe's going to undo it and I'm
like, yeah, but the personbefore that said that and the
person before that said that andthe person before that said
that, like, just change it andjust leave it Because it is.
It's just, I don't know.
It's weird.
Like Arizona doesn't do it.
It's like you know what, ifthey can do not do it, why does
(02:24):
the rest of the country have todo it?
It's annoying.
I do like the summer months,though, because it's late,
really dark.
I mean it's light, really late,so I do like that.
But, gosh, especially in themountains, it starts getting
dark at four.
It's like it's four.
Why is the sun setting rightnow?
(02:46):
Why is it dark up here?
Ann Michelle (02:49):
here in panama.
Um, it's the same 12 hourslight and 12 hours night all the
time, because we we're so closeto the equator, so it get the
sun rises at 6 30 and the sunsets at 630.
Nice, all the time, that wouldbe really nice.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (03:08):
That late night light Nice, I love that.
So I like to just start myguests off.
Tell us what you do and tell ushow to find you on social media
.
I'm going to ask you a bunch ofquestions and find out how you
came to be Miss Anne Michelle.
Ann Michelle (03:23):
Okay, well, I'm Anne Michelle Wand and I have a
company called Passive ProfitPartners, so that's my current
company, where I it's like afamily office where I gather
investors and we do projectsthat I feel are important to
produce in this day's world,because, especially in Panama,
(03:45):
but worldwide, there's ashortage of housing for seniors,
and I can get more into thatlater, but I'm a developer these
days, evolving through my realestate career, I'm now a
developer and I build homes andmultifamily projects, so people
can reach me.
(04:06):
I have a profile on LinkedInwith my name and Michelle Wand
and also a page for my company,passive Profit Partners.
That's probably the best way.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (04:17):
Okay, is Passive Profits on Instagram or
Facebook or?
Ann Michelle (04:21):
anything.
I do have an Instagram andFacebook profile, but I don't
post on it as much as I do onLinkedIn.
Yeah, I get you.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (04:30):
Okay, so I like the fact.
Okay, so you started offinvesting in the States.
Ann Michelle (04:35):
I did.
I did.
I started my real estate career, similar to you, as a single
mom.
Yeah, I got divorced and neededto figure out a way to support
my kids and myself and I got ajob to start with but discovered
real estate and the way Idiscovered real estate, because
I knew it was going to create aretirement account for me.
(04:57):
I was smart enough to know that, but I had to figure out how.
So I studied from people thatwere experts in the field and
learned how to do fix and flipsand subject to's and buy and
holds and rental property andall of that stuff.
Just, you know, very similar toyou.
(05:18):
But my first deal was an excessland deal.
I found a house on the edge ofBoulder, colorado.
It was in an area they calledDog Patch because the houses
were kind of run down and theywere on bigger lots one acre and
I was able to buy that house onthe acre and I found out that
(05:39):
if you subdivided it into fourlots you had to annex to the
city.
Then you could hook up to thecity services.
You could subdivide it intofour lots, one with the house.
So my kids and I lived in thehouse and fixed it up and I
divided it up into the four lots, sold three lots I had borrowed
the down payment for it.
(06:00):
Didn't have the down payment,paid that back and bought two
other properties and I said wow,I'm sold on real estate.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (06:08):
Yay, I know it's so crazy how, like going
through divorce, like for me toget into real estate, and then
it turns into like such a giantcareer.
It's like I never would haveimagined that this would be my
life.
Ann Michelle (06:22):
Well, I didn't either.
In the beginning, I started outactually putting myself through
beauty school and becoming ahairdresser and then starting my
own salons.
So while I was doing the realestate on the side, I was
running these two salons, andvery successfully, and that's a
really another great story of mybeginning.
Very close to when I bought thehouse, I found a little shop
(06:48):
called London Hair.
I don't know if you've everbeen in this position, but when
I had my job as a hairdresser,my boss didn't appreciate me.
Have you ever had a job whereyour boss didn't appreciate you?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (06:59):
So many.
That's why I have to work formyself now exactly so many.
Ann Michelle (07:06):
So my boss didn't appreciate me and I went looking
for a better opportunity and Ifound this lady that owned
London hair and she'd owned itfor 17 years and it was in a
little house on the main streetof Boulder and it was really
unique because she had brought aLondon phone booth from London
and planted it in the front yard.
(07:28):
Oh, so fun.
And the house itself was ahistoric house that the CU's
first woman faculty member hadlived and died in.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (07:38):
Wow.
Ann Michelle (07:40):
Yeah, it was really interesting and it was a
duplex and she had her littlesalon and half of it and the
little old lady that then livedin the house had a life estate
on the other side.
So I bought the business fromher.
I had just sold one of the lots, so I had a down payment for
the business.
I paid her off in about threeyears and then she also owned
(08:03):
the house, but I had to continuewith the life estate for the
little old lady and then shealso owned the house, but I had
to continue with the life estatefor the little old lady and I
did that happily.
So I bought the building fromher too and she financed it
because she was of an age ofwanting to retire and she was
willing to own her finance.
And it took me 10 years to paythat one off.
In the meantime the little oldlady died and I expanded the
(08:25):
salon and added nails andmassage and later in my career,
when I decided to go full timeinto real estate, sold that
whole thing.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (08:38):
That was a good start, though, because you
were doing here what you liked.
You built a little business andhad some property and sold that
, and then when I love thatstory and then went full time
into real estate.
That's amazing.
Ann Michelle (08:50):
Yeah, that was in Boulder right, that was in
Boulder, colorado.
Yes, it's good for you Good foryou.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (08:56):
Yeah, I mean it's not easy, you know, as a
single mom, buying a salon andrunning that and taking care of
the kids.
How many kids did you have?
Ann Michelle (09:05):
I had two boys.
They were nine and ten when Igot divorced.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (09:10):
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean my daughter was eightmonths old, so I guess you know
not that divorce doesn't soaffect kids.
She just always grew up withjust me, so she doesn't know any
other way.
But you know you still don'thave a father in the home and
you know divorce is an uglything.
Ann Michelle (09:26):
But sometimes out of the ashes.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (09:28):
You know the phoenix rises Exactly All right.
So when you were doing your asI want to talk about your
developing and stuff like thatso then you were into real
estate for how many years Beforeyou said, hey, I'm going to
move to Panama and I'm going tostart building and doing things.
Ann Michelle (09:49):
Right.
Well, I always had this dreamabout living on the Caribbean
Ocean since I was a kid.
I wanted to live on theCaribbean, and when I went to
college, I chose colleges thatwere on the ocean, and ended up
going to the University of Miami, in Florida, oddly enough, but
(10:11):
ended up in Colorado with mykids and my marriage.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (10:14):
So, um, uh-oh , I lost my train of thought,
that's okay, we're talking aboutgetting from the real estate to
starting, to the selling andthe developing.
Ann Michelle (10:22):
So after I sold the salons, I went full-time
into real estate and I got myreal estate license and I became
an agent, mainly because Iwanted to be able to find
properties as soon as they, youknow, on the MLS, or before they
got on the MLS.
And I did, and I did, and Icontinued to do, to invest in
single family homes.
At one point I owned fivesingle family homes.
At one point I owned fivesingle family homes in Boulder.
(10:44):
I had a duplex in Longmont anda 44 unit apartment building in
Denver, and so at that point Idecided to sell some of those
things and try my hand atvacation homes.
And I bought a vacation homewith my sister in Hawaii, on the
(11:06):
island of Hawaii, yeah, and itwas a little cottage on a hill,
not on the ocean, but reallysweet, with two smaller cottages
that we could rent out.
So spent the next five yearsvisiting there with my sister
and sometimes without my sister,renting out the cottages, and
(11:29):
ended up enjoying Hawaii.
But it wasn't the right placefor me my place in the sun.
Right Now I love Hawaii though.
It's great there, it's great,it's great to visit, but I
didn't end up staying there.
It um, but I didn't end upstaying there, sold that and
then started looking at.
(11:49):
What hawaii made me realize wasthat I wanted to be closer to
the, to the us mainland, youknow, because I want to be visit
my family easily.
I wanted it to be a lessexpensive place to live, but
still on the caribbean, withfriendly people.
I didn't find find theHawaiians terribly friendly.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (12:08):
The people that are born and raised there
are not that funny to outsiders.
Ann Michelle (12:11):
Exactly I saw that too, with a little bit warmer
temperatures, because the oceantemperature in Hawaii is 78 and
my favorite is about 82.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (12:25):
You can relate.
Oh yeah, no, I'm a beach girl,so I am a beach girl.
Sometimes I go to Florida, toour house, in like July and
August, but it's so hot I'm likeit's baking, it's perfect.
I can paddleboard on the lakeBecause in the winter I mean, I
love it in the winter too, butthe water is too cold.
Ann Michelle (12:52):
Yeah, word on the lake, because in the winter I
mean, I love it in the wintertoo, but the water is too cold.
Yeah, yeah, here in Panama youcan swim year-round in 82 degree
water.
It's just beautiful.
So I could dream I nexttraveled by.
You know, I was single for along time.
After my marriage and my, Itraveled with my girlfriend and
we decided to travel all throughCentral America seeing if there
was a place where we wanted tobe.
And we went to Puerto Rico, wewent to Nicaragua, we went to
Guatemala, we went to Belize, wewent to Costa Rica three times.
(13:16):
It was really hot in the 90sand we thought it was going to
be it, but somehow every time wewent to Costa Rica we either
didn't find what we were lookingfor.
It was either too remote or tooexpensive for our budget at the
time.
So I saw this little ad in anewspaper I used to subscribe to
and it said cheapest land inthe Caribbean.
(13:39):
And it happened to be in Panama, bocas del Toro, panama.
And we were in Costa Rica atthe time.
So we decided to take a sidetrip, go to Panama and see what
happened.
And the rest is history.
We arrived there on the littleplane, those puddle jumpers I
don't know if you've traveledlike that, you probably have and
get it.
Go in at this small airport,get off the plane and look
(14:02):
around, and it already lookedinviting.
The temperature was perfect,there was breeze, these little
shacks were everywhere, um,colorful, you know, very
colorful.
Reminded me so much of key westin the old days.
Like people don't know what areyou, they don't, they don't
(14:22):
know you know how old you are,how old am I you?
How old are you I'm?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (14:29):
74.
Okay, so I'm 66.
So we remember Key West when itwas like Key West, yes, you'd
go, and it was like shorts andflip-flops and it was casual and
everybody was amazing and itwas so it was my favorite.
At one point I was living inFort Lauderdale and I thought,
(14:50):
you know, I'm going to move toKey West Because the people and
then I don't know what happenedover the last decade.
It just got fancier and fancierand they got rid of all the old
things.
And now you go there and I meanI drive the whole place.
I don't recognize anything.
Yeah, but in the day it waslike I know what you mean?
It was just.
It was like just the greatestplace.
(15:11):
Everybody loved everybody andeverybody just hung out and you
just make friends everywhere andthose conk houses, it's like oh
.
Ann Michelle (15:23):
I used to love Key West in the old days and so I
liked it right away and ended upbuying some land, two pieces of
land one on a little islandcalled Salarte because there are
nine islands here where peopleinhabit and you get everywhere
by boat and it was so excitingand adventurous to think about
(15:45):
and to want to do.
And then I bought a littlepiece of commercial land in the
town of Bocas, called Bocas Town.
For several years after that Iwent back and forth from Boulder
to Panama, visiting whenever Icould and just enjoying it, you
know, on every vacation.
And the vacations got longerand longer and I still was
(16:06):
operating my business, which wasreal estate in Boulder.
And lo and behold, a year afterI bought those two properties,
somebody convinced me to go tothe mountains of Panama.
And I didn't want to go becauseI said, you know, I lived in
the mountains, I'm from Colorado, I've had enough mountains.
(16:29):
But they said you've got to go,it's just absolutely stunning.
So I went and I went to a place.
A guy who had moved there anAmerican expat who moved there
and married a Panamanian wasfrom moved from Breckenridge.
I think he was originally fromCalifornia but he moved from
Breckenridge, a tech guy, and hehad bought an 80 acre coffee
(16:50):
farm up there and he wasdeveloping it into a gated
community with about I don'tknow 20, 30 homes and a river
running through it and coffee itwas a coffee plantation and he
left a lot of the coffee on thehillsides, so it's just gorgeous
.
And he put a nine hole golfcourse along the river.
(17:11):
That sounds fabulous.
Just platting the roads at thetime and I couldn't resist.
The prices were so incredible.
I bought a three bedroom villato be built.
They build it for you on thethird hole of the golf course.
Even though I don't play golf,it didn't matter.
(17:32):
And it was beautiful up there.
It looks just like the RockyMountains, but in tropical
foliage.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (17:38):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no I love the
tropics.
So is that how you decided toget into being a developer?
Ann Michelle (17:46):
Well, no, I didn't develop for many years after
that.
For a while we just we wouldsplit our time three ways.
Now we'd be in Boulder and thengo to Boquete, which is where
this little mountain town is,and then down to Bocas three
months, three months and sixmonths in Colorado.
Well, gradually, we decidedthat we wanted to be, because by
(18:09):
this time I was remarried.
So my husband and I, and ourkids are all grown.
My mom passed away and all that, and I was waiting for a lot of
that to happen to be able tomake a move full time, and so my
mom passed away in 2006.
And then the crash happened in2008,.
Right, and that was thecatalyst that said you know what
(18:31):
We've been waiting to move toPanama.
This is the sign.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (18:35):
Let's do it Good for you we did?
Ann Michelle (18:38):
We moved to Panama 2009-10 and started building on
the lands that we had purchased.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (18:49):
So you had said that some of your interest
was housing for elderly.
Tell me about that.
Ann Michelle (18:55):
Well, as I've developed my career in here in
Bocas del Toro, Panama, I get tosee what goes on and keep tabs
on the market right, Much likeyou probably do in Florida and
maybe Colorado and for a longtime I kept tabs on Colorado too
.
But I actually ended up.
(19:16):
When I first moved here therewas I could see a boom happening
and I couldn't resist.
I opened a real estatefranchise here and ran it for 10
years and had a lot of funshowing property in a boat to
everybody.
So I still wasn't a developer,except I was developing my own
properties the little commercialproperty where we had offices
(19:37):
and my girlfriend, who was mypartner, had a spa and we had
some rental cabins and thingslike that.
And then my husband and I builta house our own house on about
an acre of ground that we haveon the island of Salarte.
So after 10 years of running thefranchise I decided, OK, it's
(19:58):
time for me to try to retireagain.
You know I see time to be ableto do that.
And I sold the franchise to anice young couple who want to
take it to the next level.
They're doing very well andthey rent from me.
So that worked out perfect andI started building one house a
(20:19):
year to sell just to have fun,keep myself busy, and there was
a shortage of houses in the$200,000 to $400,000 range.
So with me just building onehouse and selling it per year, I
did pretty well.
I'm on my third house right now.
I just put it for sale, I thinka couple months ago, and
(20:43):
watching the market change andwatching all the people that
came here 20 years ago age andstart to need services and there
is no assisted living herewhatsoever, really nothing, it's
even.
It's not.
There is some in panama city,which is an eight hour drive
from here or a one hour flight,but in our little town and in
(21:05):
the other little towns, likeboquete, there's nothing said.
What if I built a littlecommunity for elders in this
area and offered those services,both independent living and
mildly assisted, to get startedand people could have a higher
standard of living, they couldthrive in their elder years, at
(21:28):
half the price?
You can live in the States orbuy this kind of thing in the
States.
And that's my next project isI'm gathering investors and I'm
going to be building this littlecommunity here in Bocas.
And in Boquete as well, if itgoes well.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (21:44):
So the Passive Partner Profits.
What is that?
Is that people that are lookingto invest with?
Ann Michelle (21:50):
you.
Yeah, that's the company that Iformed to be able to accept
investors.
It's an LLC, with me as thegeneral partner and the investor
partners would be the limitedpartners.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (22:03):
So are you going to be doing syndications
with that?
Ann Michelle (22:08):
I don't call it a syndication, it's, you know,
it's not because I'm not in theUS, it's more like a family
office.
These partners are going to bemore like my family, where we're
going to group together andbuild, do a property together,
except I'll take the lead on it.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (22:25):
Nice, yeah, you know I that is so neat that
you're doing that in Panama.
I didn't realize in some ofthose countries that they don't
have places.
What did the seniors do?
Ann Michelle (22:38):
Yeah, well, the Panamanian culture in the past
has always taken care of theirelderly at home, and maybe it
was that way in the UnitedStates 100 years ago too right.
And maybe it was that way inthe United States 100 years ago
too Right.
But as the people get moreeducated and they start
traveling and becoming becausethe middle class here in Panama
is developing, unlike the UnitedStates where it's dwindling
(23:00):
Right here it's developing andthere's a lot of businesses that
need to open and that areopening, and the middle class is
growing and they are justdemanding certain services, and
I think that elder housing isgoing to be one of them in the
future.
So it will be not only forexpats but for the educated
business owners of Panama aswell.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (23:21):
Yeah, I love it.
My husband and I have talkedabout somewhere down the road.
It's like we should.
We should open up some seniorliving where everyone and like
instead of like you know howthey play, like the quiet music.
It needs to be like RollingStones and Led Zeppelin and let
them all smoke pot like they didwhen they were, you know, in
the 60s, and have like a rockand roll senior living, like
(23:46):
here's your weed, here's yourwine, here's your whatever we're
playing, here's your whateverwe're playing, you know.
Uh, yeah, the that's a good ideathe rolling stones and like
just like all the people intheir 60s that are, you know, in
the 60s that were like in their20s.
I'd let them relive that intheir older age absolutely I, I.
Ann Michelle (24:07):
That's a great idea.
That's a great idea.
I don's a great idea.
I don't know that I'm going todo the theme with weed and
everything.
It isn't legal here yet Igraduated high school in 77.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (24:16):
So my 20s were really in the 80s and it
was disco and that was my 20s.
People that were in their 20s,like in the 60s, they just
(24:39):
partied.
They were like hippies andflower children.
They went to Woodstock.
It's like how much fun wouldthat be to let them live their
elder years.
Ann Michelle (24:48):
That was me, that was me.
That was me.
I graduated in 1969 andWoodstock was 30 minutes from my
house where I grew up.
Did you go to Woodstock?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (24:59):
Uh-huh, you went to Woodstock, did I went to
Woodstock?
Oh man, I tell you, I look atthat and I'm just like that had
to have been such a once in alifetime thing.
It was.
Ann Michelle (25:10):
It was absolutely a once in a lifetime thing.
I didn't stay the whole time,but I did enjoy myself.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (25:16):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, yeah, no.
I can imagine I have somefriends that used to go like oh
yeah, we dropped acid, we hungout, we did this, we did that.
And again, I'm not like prodrugs, I don't smoke weed, all
that stuff's legal, I don't doany of that.
But it's like you know, if youcould like relive those years
and at the other end I feel likepeople would be so much happier
.
Ann Michelle (25:36):
I think that some people want to do that.
My community is going to becalled active agers because I
want people to thrive in theirelder years, you know, and
create the next blue zone.
You know, eating healthy foodand doing great activities and
immersing yourself in theculture and stuff like that.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (25:54):
Yeah I think that I mean my mom's 88, so she
lives in, uh, assisted livingand like, see, I guess it's a,
she lives in a senior buildingand they have like a nurse on
staff.
But you know you liveindependent and but I see her
not not being as active and notgoing to the.
They have activities every day.
She doesn't do as much stuff asyou and she's like, oh, maybe
(26:15):
I'm tired, not like my 98 yearold aunt.
And my aunt she lives at herhouse and she goes walking every
day for a mile, every day.
98 years old.
Just you know, wow, like it's.
And if you don't really putpeople in a situation to really
stay active, they decline somuch.
Exactly.
Ann Michelle (26:34):
Exactly so.
No, I don't want to make itlike a big apartment building or
anything like that.
It wouldn't fit here.
It'll be a little tiny home sopeople can have privacy, but
it'll have a big central areafor activities and lots of
activities for people to do,including alternative therapies
and pickleball, and a nicelibrary and, you know, a game
(26:57):
room and all kinds of fun stuffand great food.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (27:01):
That sounds like that'd be really fun.
After you get a couple of thosebuilt, let me know.
Maybe Bill and I will invest ina couple of those over there.
Ann Michelle (27:08):
Well, you never know, I will let you know once I
get started.
I have some investors comingdown in a couple of months six
to eight weeks that were andI've already got the land picked
out to show them.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (27:22):
So I think that sounds like a really super
fun thing to do, and you knowyou're at that age too where you
want to retire.
But so you're building anddeveloping as you want to stay
active.
Ann Michelle (27:36):
I want to stay active, that's what keeps me.
And you know, I may end upliving there in my 90s, who
knows, you might.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (27:43):
You might you never know you might be like,
hey, this is amazing, I'm goingto live over there just because
it's fun.
Ann Michelle (27:53):
Well, right now, yeah, our house is over on
Pierpost, over the sea.
You know, we have a house thatwe built right over the ocean,
so I get to look at the oceanevery day and wake up to it, and
it's built a story up.
So you go up 13 stairs and it'sgreat.
For now it keeps me fit andhealthy, but maybe not forever.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (28:13):
I don't know.
You seem pretty healthy to me.
I am very healthy.
I feel like you're thrivingaway.
Ann Michelle (28:20):
I am, I am.
I take no medications and I'mvery active every day.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (28:24):
So Nice, I love it.
I love it and I think whatyou're doing is amazing.
So how can people at thewonderful universe, how can we
help you reach your next goal?
Ann Michelle (28:36):
Reach my next goal .
Oh, my goodness.
Well, I'm at the stage whereI'm open for, you know, people
who are interested in investingat this stage, being part of the
company and the founders of itcompany and the founders of it.
You know I do have peopleinterested, but I'm.
You know I need to raise a $7million, so Okay.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (28:59):
No, I mean, I always.
That's one of the things that Itell you.
I like to ask everyone Iinterview is what can we do to
help you reach your next goal?
And if you need people toinvest and invest in Panama, you
need to raise $7 million.
Come on, guys, I'm always upand around with money.
Right there you go.
Ann Michelle (29:17):
I believe it's a great diversification for people
living in the United States whowant to diversify their real
estate investments.
You know, you might, you'rediversified and I have a little
booklet that I wrote seven signsthat you're over-invested in
the United States.
You know so that you shoulddiversify more.
And why not in Panama, whereit's up and coming and the
(29:40):
economy is good and the canal,you know, holds it all together.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (29:44):
Yeah, yeah, I've been to Panama.
Well, just on cruises.
I think I've been there twice,and one time I was, I took my
dad on a cruise and we wentthrough on the cruise ship, went
through the whole canal.
It's like, yeah, that was such,that's such a neat thing, and
we got off and went shopping andI don't know where we went
thing.
We got off and went shopping.
I don't know where we went, butthey took us to some like a
(30:08):
giant mansion that had a giantpool and people were serving
food and everything.
I don't even know where thisplace is, so beautiful.
Ann Michelle (30:14):
Yeah, it's a stunning country.
I think everyone should atleast come and visit because
there's so many places you cango and enjoy different types of
living City living in PanamaCity, where two of the four
million people live, countryliving on either of those farms
(30:34):
or the mountains, and coastalliving on either of the two
oceans, the Pacific Ocean or theCaribbean Ocean.
So you've got a lot ofdiversification just in what
people may want.
If it's too hot for you on thebeach, you just go three hours
into the mountains and you'vegot the 75 degree weather
instead of the 85.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (30:53):
Now I'm a beach girl.
I'll be visiting you at thebeach, yeah, yeah.
So let me ask you some personalquestions.
What's your favorite band ofall time?
Oh, that's easy the.
Ann Michelle (31:05):
Beatles.
I love the Beatles.
They are the best band of alltime.
I really.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (31:12):
I, I, I agree , my husband and I, we have four
grandkids, so they're not,they're 10, nine, five and three
.
So we are the ones teachingthem about music, and I, so we.
So we started off like twoyears ago.
Now we buy them, like they havea little cd player, they have
like 50 cds each, but you knowthey're kids and we don't want
(31:33):
them like on their phone andusing, you know, the internet
and stuff, and uh.
So we started off with musicfrom the 70s, because that was
like the last decade where therewas no cursing in all the music
, because by the 80s they werecursing and now they just say
like, oh, the music is so vile,I'm just like ugh.
Ann Michelle (31:52):
It's so different.
Everything then was about loveand peace.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (31:58):
We just bought them all Beatles CDs and
they are in love with theBeatles and so we do the Beatles
.
We got him some John Denverstuff, any band from the
seventies, but not not like thestones and Aerosmith.
Because they're kids, that'slike a little bit too hard, I
feel like, for them.
But I told my husband theBeatles is safe, every song.
(32:19):
They were unbelievably amazing.
They changed the world.
And my grandkids wear beetlest-shirts and they go to school
and they talk to the teachersabout music.
My 10 year old and she lovesqueen.
So she talks to her teachersabout queen, tom petty and the
beetles and they're like how oldare you?
She's like oh, it's my papi,mimi, it's the best music ever.
(32:41):
That that's who they love.
They love it.
I don't know.
It's like and it's innocentmusic.
It's like things were just sosimple.
Then, yeah, what's yourfavorite food?
What do you love to eat?
Ann Michelle (32:56):
my favorite food watermelon.
I love fruit.
We have such wonderful tropicalfruits here, and so I eat
watermelon, mango and pineappleevery day.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (33:10):
Every day.
Okay, so now do you salt yourwatermelon?
Salt or no?
Ann Michelle (33:14):
salt, no salt, I don't have to.
It's really sweet.
Oh it is.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (33:19):
I love, I have always.
We, I, we, oh it is, I havealways.
We grew up in the country so weraised watermelons and pumpkins
and cantaloupe and all that Idon't know.
My dad or something was likehey, put some salt on that.
So I have eaten watermelon withsalt on it my whole life.
Ann Michelle (33:36):
I have eaten it that way and my understanding
was that the salt was to make ittaste sweeter.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (33:41):
I know my grandkids I only have one
grandkid that likes it that way.
The rest are like no, it's goodlike it is.
No, it is good like it is.
It is good like it is Fromchildhood.
I just said that I'm like thisis so yummy this way.
What's your favorite time ofday?
When are you at home?
Ann Michelle (33:57):
Sunrise is my favorite time of day.
I am a morning person all theway and I have my morning
routine that I mostly don't letanything interrupt.
You know, I wake up at sunriseand first thing I do is meditate
to get my day started right,yeah Well it's beautiful where
you're at.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (34:14):
So the last question for you, Ms Ann.
Michelle, I always like myguests to leave us with a word
of wisdom, but just one singleword oh my goodness.
Ann Michelle (34:30):
Well, diversify.
Okay, don't put all your eggsin one basket okay.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (34:38):
So what we do in the dwandaful universe is
every week I have a, you know, Ido one podcast a week and I
tell everyone, take that word,write it down, stick it on your
mirror and every day for thatweek say diversify, diversify,
diversify.
So that's our official word ofthe week in Dwan-Diful.
And so what is diversify?
Because you kind of said it,but what does it mean to you,
(35:00):
what it?
Ann Michelle (35:00):
means to me.
I think of it in the world ofreal estate and investment,
because everyone wants to have agood retirement right Everyone
but they don't always know howto get there and so many people
get to retirement age and don'thave enough saved.
But if you follow very simpleprinciples with financial
(35:21):
education which I'm sure youteach and I don't teach formally
, but I teach people within mysphere that kind of thing and
you have your buckets for savingand investments and emergency
funds and all that stuffVacation fund very important too
, right and then you begininvesting, first maybe in your
(35:44):
backyard where you're learningabout everything, and then maybe
diversifying out into othercities in your state and then
maybe even out of state in otherstates in the point in my
career, and then for me the nextlogical step was to go out of
(36:08):
the country, abroad, and I couldhave invested in Italy, I could
have invested lots of Portugal,lots of places, but I happened
to choose Panama and I thinkthat people should consider
investing outside the UnitedStates, whether it's Panama or
another foreign country thatthey think is really great.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (36:27):
Yeah, I have to work so hard with investors
now to get them just to investoutside of their state.
Exactly, I'm like we live inColorado.
So, like up here where I live,my son just bought a house in my
subdivision.
They're $850,000.
So it's like if you want to buythat and you have it for a
rental, you know if someone, ifit's empty for two months can
(36:50):
you even afford to keep up withit.
And my husband is from clinton,iowa, which is right on the
mississippi river and it's very,very midwest.
You can buy a really nicethree-bed, two-bath house for
like 60 grand.
They rent for 1,200.
So I'm like tell me, listen,you can't always invest where
you live.
Like California is expensive,colorado is so expensive,
(37:16):
phoenix, some of these places.
I'm like go to the Midwest,just go like to Iowa and Ohio
and go to the Midwest where youcan buy cheaper things and get
in a good area, goodneighborhood and do that.
So it's like pulling teeth toget people just to invest out of
their own state.
We can send them your way.
Like Zayla said, I have someonein Panama that will hook you up
all the way and put some moneydown there.
Ann Michelle (37:38):
Exactly.
And so if you put your eggs inall the different baskets, like
we're saying, choose placesother than, if you especially if
your backyard is expensive,like you were saying totally
agree with you, then when adownturn does happen, you still
have something that's probablygoing to be OK.
Yeah, and a little bit in thestock market too.
(37:58):
You've got to have a little biteverywhere A little crypto.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (38:01):
I like crypto .
A little bit, a little bit, alittle crypto I like crypto a
little bit.
Ann Michelle (38:04):
So a little crypto , a little bit of crypto yep, a
little of everything, a littlebit of gold yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's one thing.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (38:10):
We have so much gold and silver and so, and
not at my house for any listing, so right, but you gotta have
you.
just you just need to have a lotof stuff, because you never
know what's happening.
Everything the power grid goesdown, your crypto and your
dollar bills aren't going to beworth anything.
You need to have some gold andsilver.
So you just got to diversifyinto many things.
(38:33):
So I really love getting toknow you, ms Anne.
Michelle, I would considercoming down in a couple of years
and maybe helping you with someinvesting down in Panama.
It sounds amazing.
Ann Michelle (38:43):
Oh, I think we'll be well on our way by then and
you'll be very welcome.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (38:47):
Yes, I want to be in that beach air all the
time yeah we've got fivebeautiful beaches.
Ann Michelle (38:53):
You know there's, there's it's incredible, there's
nine islands and every islandhas a windward side and a
leeward side, and on the leewardsides of the islands is all
mangrove that, you know,supports the environment, and on
the windward sides of theisland is where the beaches are.
So they're not everywhere.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (39:14):
If you know what I'm saying.
Yeah, I know exactly.
It sounds like you found abeautiful spot for yourself.
We found a great spot All right, everyone.
We'll be back next week.
Don't forget dwonderfulcom.
And don't forget PassivePartner Profits.
Also, look for Anne, michelle,it's A-N-N-E, m-i-c-a-g-l-l-e,
wand, w-a-n-d on LinkedIn andthink about doing some investing
(39:37):
outside of the country.
I know many, many, many peoplethat are my age right now that
are moving to Panama and PuertoRico and places like that.
So keep it in mind, everybody,and thank you, my darling, for
being on.
You're just so great, and thefact that you went to Woodstock,
I was like ugh, we're going tosit down one day and you have to
(39:58):
tell me all about it.
It sounds amazing and we'll beback next week.
Same one day, and you have totell me all about it.
It sounds amazing and we'll beback next week.
Same time, same channel.
And remember that the truth isin the red letters.
All right, everybody.
Have a good week.
My name is Michelle, thank you,and we'll be back next week.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.