July 2, 2025 • 48 mins
Flashdance (1983)—Dream Big or Go Home?In this energetic episode of The Most Excellent 80s Movies Podcast, hosts Krissy Lenz and Nathan Blackwell dive into the iconic 1983 film Flashdance. Neither had seen the movie before, leading to some surprising reactions as they examine this influential 80s classic through modern eyes.Nathan reveals how Flashdance became the progenitor of the Simpson-Bruckheimer production style that dominated 80s and 90s cinema, influencing everything from Top Gun to Dirty Dancing and Footloose. The hosts discuss how this $7.5 million film that grossed nearly $100 million established the MTV-style visual language that would later evolve into the Michael Bay aesthetic.While Krissy found herself disappointed by the movie overall (giving it just 5 out of 10 "bras removed through shirts"), both hosts agree that the dance sequences are electrifying highlights in an otherwise disjointed narrative. They examine the film's problematic message about dreams and failure—that one setback means you should abandon your ambitions altogether.The hosts also explore the complex portrayal of Alex (Jennifer Beals) as a young woman experiencing sexual awakening while making questionable emotional decisions, and discuss the fascinating behind-the-scenes facts about Marine Jahan, the uncredited dance double who performed most of the iconic dance sequences.Other Topics Covered:
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- The problematic age gap between 18-year-old Alex and her 36-year-old boss/love interest
- The contrast between burlesque dancing at Mawby's Bar versus stripping at the club across the street
- The film's impressive soundtrack filled with 80s bangers
- Jennifer Beals' performance and her famous "bra removal through sweater" technique
- The supporting characters' abandoned dreams and limited character development
- Nathan's recommendation of All That Jazz (1979) for a more substantive dance film
- Krissy's unexpected endorsement of welding as an empowering hobby
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Most
Excellent Eighties Movies Podcast. Want to skip those ads and
get early access, become a member at true story dot fm,
slash join and discover all the other great parks that
come with it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello and welcome to the Most Excellent Eighties Movies Podcast.
It's the podcast where we weld and two step our
way through the eighties movies we think we love or
might have missed with These are modern eyes to see
how well we like them. Now you know how that goes.
(00:52):
And today we're talking about flash Dance, a movie selection
from nineteen eighty four eighty three, a movie selection from
nineteen eighty three about which the Google overview says. Alex Owens,
played by Jennifer Bials is a beautiful young woman who
(01:13):
works a day job in a steel mill and dances
in a bar and night. When Alex discovers that her
handsome boss, Nick Hurley played by Michael Norri, is both
interested in her and supportive of her performing career, she
renews her efforts to get accepted into a prestigious dance conservatory.
(01:34):
Although Alex is frightened of failure, she is cheered on
by Nick as well as her mentor former ballet performer
Hannah Long, played by Lilia Scala.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Where are we getting these synapsis from Google? I feel
like we need this to find a new source.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Okay, you don't like them, you don't find it. They're
accurate and compelling.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
They've been rough, they've been rough. Yeah, they've been rough.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Okay, Well here comes the trailer.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
You what got there? And music starts and you feel it.
Your body just smooths. There's something inside of you that
just clicks, and you're gone. It's like you're somebody else
for a while.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
Her name is Alex. She works in a man's world.
She dances in a world of her dreams.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Flash Dance, the music loves My Feeling flash Dance.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
If a dream comes true, just one time, it can
change your life for all times.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Where a stupid tagline, if a dream comes true just
one time, it can change your life for all time.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah it's not a great message.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah it's not. Also like, that's not really what this
movie is.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
If I had to say, yeah, I feel like they Yeah,
they kind of voice it in if you're if you
give up on your dream, you die is kind of
what they voice in the movie, right, really, I really
it's like she's talking to that.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Was that her grandma's but it was just her friend,
just her friend.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Admittedly, this is one of those movies where you can
totally enjoy flash dance but also watch things on your
phone as well. That's my hot take. Yeah, I feel
like there was one point I wanted the not grandma
to say, you know, you're good to fail more times
(05:00):
than you succeed, but you've got to get yourself out there.
She doesn't say that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
No, she doesn't say that.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
No, that's not the message of flash Flash.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
The message of flash answer is that if you fail once,
you're fucked.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Yeah, which is terrible news for a lot of us.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, it's true. It's the exact opposite of what we
teach people in improv.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Uh huh Yeah. I mean my experience is that you
I fail more like you know, so I teach film school.
They're always failing. They only fail almost almost all the time,
And that's okay, Like you need to learn what works
what doesn't. You're never going to put anything from film
school on your professional demo reel. Five years later, you're
(05:50):
going to try to get that off your reel as
soon as possible. It's a safe space for failure.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, it's the same for improv where making stuff up
as we go. You know, the mistakes are opportunities to
see what you can do better. And as someone who's
an improvisational dancer, you think that Alex would learn that
at some point down the line. But no, she never
learns that. That's not the message of the movie.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Well, she's not a so she isn't writing the movie.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
No, she's not writing. She's not writing her own ticket,
she's not writing her own life. She's just living it.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, welcome to Flash Dance.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Welcome to Flash Dance.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Despite just coming out of the gate, I actually enjoyed
quite a bit of this movie, Dan you and also
I wouldn't say disliked, but unenjoyed even more, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
One of those movies to where I recommend it. However,
even though it's a short movie, don't worry, it'll feel long.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
It did feel long, and it did, and I checked
several times to see how much of the movie was left.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
While watching it, which is one of the fun facts
I learned, was that the director and producer wanted it
to be two hours and five minutes, and then the
everyone was like, Nope, it needs to be ninety minutes
and you're done, and thank god, yeah, and thank god,
(07:35):
where is that voice now to make these fucking movies shorter? Yeah.
By the way, I'm Chrissy Lenz. One of the directors
at the Neighborhood Comedy Theater in downtown Mace, Arizona. With
me as always is.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Nathan Blackwell, independent filmmaker and umember, a.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Flashdown lover of.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
A let's not put words in my mouth.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
So we chose this movie because it's one of the
most popular movies of nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yea started it is one of It is one of
the most eighties movies that we've ever seen. Like it,
it can only be made in the eighties.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, yes, but I had never seen it. You had
never seen it, so neither one of us knew what
we were getting into. And I did not like this movie.
Spoilers spoiler alerts. I found like this. I found this
movie was it's a waste of time.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Uh huh. Now if I had so, I'm not upset
by that, mainly because I have no emotional stakes in
the movie whatsoever. There's a lot of fun moments and scenes,
but then there's just a lot of extra stuff. You know,
(09:06):
it's two to understand this movie, you've got to understand
that it's like the it is the progenitor of a
lot of eight a lot of others eighties movies, Like
there's no Top Gun without flash dance, because why do
you think that? So it's not that like Oh so
(09:28):
it's because literally it's the same producers and this was
their break in and they repeated this style of movie
going forward. So this is this is Simpson's Simpson and
Bruckheimer and so basically making the MTV style movies where
(09:56):
you know, so there's a lot of similarity between this
and Days of Thunder and all the Michael Bay movies.
This is kind of the the the the early beginnings
of all those movies. And and not only style, but
just like I mean, even with the characters journeys and
(10:19):
the romance stories and them having a dream and not
being able to pursue it, and and no I don't
have time for love. Oh okay, I'll make time for love.
All the the the flashy, unconsequential side characters. It's the
Bruckheimer Simpson model for like the next two decades, like
(10:44):
like going on for like so it's and then and
then in addition, there were the copycats. There's no dirty
Dancing or footloose without Flash Dance. So that's that's the
that's the movie that that. You know, it's like when
there's like a big hit out of nowhere and other
(11:07):
people try to reproduce it, it's like, oh, dance movies
are in again, like sex dance movies. And so that's
what that's what happened, because you have to understand, this
was a seven and a half million dollar movie that
made almost one hundred million dollars, so it was it
was a big deal. But also without Flash Dance wouldn't
(11:30):
have happened without Saturday Night Fever.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Of course. But yeah, and I get all of that,
and I'm i'm I'm fascinated to hear your your take
on that, and I'm you know, happy to have Flash
Dance in the long line of progenitors of movies that
I do, like, I'm grateful for its contribution. But I
(11:56):
didn't like the characters, like I didn't like all it.
I thought she was like unsustainably dumb, Like you know.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
I'm not disputing I'm not disputing any of that. I'm
not disputing any of that. If anything that I've said,
it's basically recommending it as an academic study, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay, this is the beginning.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
This is the beginning of like the Bruckheimer you know
style movie of like the eighties movies, as as an
MTV music video, which then morphed into you know, the Michael.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Bay movies, right, And I love that, but it's this,
Aside from the dancing sequence, this movie is no fun.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
The dancing is fun. Her dancing is super fun, and
we get to see some of the other girls dancing
and it's super fun. Y. I love the dancing sequences.
I don't even mind that we see them dance to
an entire song. I'm happy dance to the whole song,
dance to two songs.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I feel like we've seen a lot of more boring
movies that don't have kind of like highlights like this.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I don't have dancing, yes, and.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I'm not even a huge dancing guy, you know, but
you know, like, if you can get me with a
good dance sequence or a good musical sequence, then I'm
on board.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Are you saying you like this more? Than Beaches.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Beaches is a better movie. Yeah, but I probably liked
moment it's it's weird. It's like I like moments of
this movie better than any moment in Beaches. But Beaches
is a better movie for sure. Yeah it's Yeah. Now,
(14:12):
when I when I start off recommending this movie saying
that to see it again, I'm not. It's not under
the It's like, if you want to really eighties movies
to kind of you know, and you've got a couple
drinks in you, and it's and you you can you
(14:33):
can go to the bathroom or even take a phone
call for ten to fifteen minutes and come back to
the movie and still get the same enjoyment value. Adt it.
This is that movie.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Okay, all right, So it's about, as we said in
the over you Alex, who is a welder by day.
We get her riding her bike and doing a welding
montage to the song what If, which is a great
beginning of the movie. I'm like, okay, I'm into this.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
What Yeah, there's there's so there's so many good bangers,
as they say in terms of eighties songs in this
in this movie.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
It's true, which is why our bonus content for today
is going to be movie soundtracks.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
We love awesome.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah, it is gonna be awesome. But we we also
see her at the bar that she works at and
she does this the splash dance, as we'll call it, right,
Her boss from the steel yard shows up and is
(15:41):
a smitten kitten. Her friends include a burger Flippin' chef.
I wouldn't say chef, I would say cook.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
He's not getting any Michelin stars out here, No, and
he is a teller of racist, in appropriate jokes. He
wants to be a comedian, so his dream.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Is to want the kes to be fair.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
But yes, well, which is like what the number one
rule of comedy. You can't just tell jokes. You have
to have a point of view, And like this point.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Of view is he has no future as a comedy.
He has no future as a comedian.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
But it's like you said that, he's part of this
story of like if you fail at your dream, then
you just shut down your whole life and uh live
unhappily forever after right.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
I feel like we're not going to make much progress
going through the plot of Flash Dance.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
No, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I feel like the best version of flash Dance is
when they show clips of it when they're talking about
other movies like eighties movies, or even just the trailer,
you know, is the best version of what they've done here.
You know, all the yeah, all the supporting characters, there's
(17:06):
really not much of an arc to them. The only
the only supporting character that that fascinates me is the
is the owner slash you know, bar, the bar owner
of the play.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Well, but just to go back for a minute, her
best friend is also is a waitress at the bar
where she dances, and she wants to be a figure skater.
So you've got the kok who wants to be a
stand up comedian and the waitress who wants to be
a figure skater. But she goes to her figure skating
(17:44):
recital and fails. She falls down twice, and then the
boss is all like, well, she'll do better next time,
and Alex is like, there's not gonna be a next time, which, uh.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Just the consequences of failure after.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Of one failure, one time you fall in your ass,
you're donezo for good. There's not going to be a
next time. Give up on your dream.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
So we see a lot of examples of people who
get one shot.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
The racist uh uh, comedian he goes to l A
all the way to l A. He does one gig
at a club, doesn't get good laughs, so he comes
back with his hat in his hand.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Yeah. So many examples of of of dreamers who have failed.
And is is I don't know if if the Pollock's
probably not even the probably even saying Pollock is racist
not racist, I don't know the race. It's it's bigoted.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Okay, Okay, Well I'm Polish.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
They're Polish for.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, and I know that. So it's just another example
to me of how this movie doesn't hold up. Even
though I'm hearing you say that it is the progenitor
of all these things that we love, it's still it
doesn't hold up on its.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Own and I and and I'm not arguing that.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Okay, good, I'm glad that you're not. I also want
to talk about, you know, when when we say that
we're going back and looking at these movies with modern eyes,
there's a little bit of a hypocrisy. I think too.
Of like her friend Jeanie, eventually, this is how we
(19:50):
know she's given up on her life. Is she goes
across the street, uh to Johnny sees all new dancing place,
and she's not even dancing. She's just laying on her
back waving her legs in the air because she wasn't.
She was not, none of them were. But Alex goes
(20:14):
and like drags her out of there, and it's like this,
what you're gonna do with your life? Be a trashy stripper.
And it's like, well, you're a trashy stripper? Like what
just because she takes her top off doesn't make her
that much worse than you. And granted the club is
like way sleazier, and we can tell from.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Like burlesque dancers. This is a dive bar with a
burlesque dancer stage.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Which is the funny thing. Like I was gonna go
to this bar.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
It's so I want to get back to the owner,
who is kind of.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
The owner none.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
The owner is like he's like the the bald guy
from What's it? The the the owner of Maybe's. Yeah,
the owner of Maybe's. He's like the guy from geez,
what's that? That's what's the adult swim show with like
the the the talking drink and hamburger.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Uh hu.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Yeah. So he's like the gruff guy in that, like
the human, like the fat human in that. That's who
he is and who sold him on this concept.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I'm having your burlesque like it is.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
It's not just like a cheesy stage like it's a
full production. It's like a glowing stage with props, and
the dancers can really do whatever they want, you know.
There's some really like crazy, like art driven performance pieces.
(21:59):
And he's just like shrugs his shoulders. I'm just the owner.
They could do what they.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Want, you know, yep, and we have to assume they're
not repeating the same dances twice, right, And.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
So I just would have loved to see the conversation
where he was sold on this concept.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
I want to go to this bar that this is
the fun. Part of the of the thing is that
the people at this bar get to see these beautiful
burlesque performances and like, you know, we're we're not seeing
their clientele as being sleazy for taking in these burlesque
performances where the women are stripping just not down to
(22:41):
their underpants, but they all look down on the strippers.
It's like you're doing the same thing.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
You know, Well, it's not though it's not though, like
the burlesque performances are not the same thing as as
the strip club.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Well, I get that we're supposed to see it that way,
that the strip club is the sleazy step down, but
in the grand scheme of things, it's it's the same difference.
You're still you know, dancing and taking your clothes off
for the people who come to see you.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
But the burless show is not nude.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
No, it's not nude, but they get down to wet lingerie.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
U huh.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
So you can't really say that it's not to titillate
the audience.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I feel like it is titillating. But the burlesque is
much more kind of an equal level of the artistic
performance and more empowerment on the performer, and it's more
seen as a show.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
You know, I get that. But it's like the story
that we're being told is that the burlesque fanters want
to be there because they're so free and empowered, and
the strippers don't want to be there because they're empty,
soulless failures. And it's like, I would like to see
a little bit more positivity in the life of a stripper, because,
(24:19):
you know, a lot of what they do is pretty
artistic too. I get that that's not what we're supposed
to be seeing in this movie, but like, have you've
ever seen a girl dance on a pole? They work hard,
hard for that money.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
So both of us so I'm I'm like, no, no,
burlesque is an art and you're like, no, no, no, stripping
is also on art. We're like, miss, we're misstepped. We're
both thinking that the other one is arguing the opposite
of what we're arguing.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Right, And granted, what she was doing was no art.
She was just waving her ankles in the air, yeah,
saying and she wasn't even saying look at my boobies.
It was like she was saying, look at my vagina,
which is covered by cloth. So so I was just like,
(25:11):
let's be a little more stripper positive movie, especially with
the way Alex drags her out of there, like you
gotta get out of here. This is terrible. Put your
jacket on. You're naked, and she's like, well, you're naked too.
Mm hm, No, I'm in a wet lingerie. I'm classy.
(25:35):
We can both be classy dolls. We don't have to
tear each other down. We can lift each other up. Yeah,
but you're right, we're not gonna get anywhere by trying
to go through the plot of this movie. It is
like you said, it's like a beat poem. It's like
a music video. It just bounces from one thing.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, it's kind of It's part Saturday Night favor it's
part Rocky you know, to where you know, I'm in
a blue color background, I've got a dream. I'm a dreamer.
I'm different than all these other people. I've got a
secret life, and this is the thing that's gonna pull
(26:19):
me up.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah. I did love the workout sequence where they're working out.
It's actually pretty funny because they're like lifting weights and stuff.
And then there's she's with all her dancer friends.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Which it is soul on like a music video, like
it's an it is.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
It is a funny music video.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
It's a it's filmed against a white glowing void as
they're all just kind of working out. Yeah, and so
that this is the fun. This is the fun of
flash dance. Yeah, and then the un fun is everything
in between, you know. But I I feel like we
kind of get a bit of this with Footloos too.
(27:03):
To where there's a lot of stuff that happens that
I just don't care about, you know. Footloose was a
little more engaging, but there was also plenty of stuff
toward It's like, okay, we're the remote.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, I'm I'm over this, I'm done with it. But
so she does fall in love with her boss mm hmm.
She uh sleeps with him on the first date after
they watch her friend fail.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
She's got a great pickup line, by the way, like
he's so he's He comes off as like is he
a sleez? Is he not a sleez? So at the
end of their first date, he's gonna leave, and she says, well,
don't you want some pizza?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:59):
They start making out, which is now my new line
that you.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Want some pizza and people will go flash dance. Are
you flash dancing me, Nathan, No.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
I'm bringing it back.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah. She also takes her bra off under her sweater.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
I feel like that's the move. You need to learn
how to do that. Put a bra, take it off
under your sweater.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yes. I think it became a thing.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Is it's a thing because it's a necessity, Yes, But I.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Mean like it became a thing. Yeah, like like Tom
Cruise sliding across in his in his socks, risky business.
It became a thing. What what are your thoughts on?
So what are your thoughts on Jennifer Beale the performer.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Oh? I enjoyed her. I thought she was beautiful. Zoe
said she was the prettiest girl she's ever seen.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
I love the idea that she's dancing, even though that's
a stunt performer, it's well, not a stunt performer, it's
a dancer.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah. Yeah, she was super super charming and super super cute.
I think Alex her character was great up until she
was emotionally she was romantically jilted.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Well, and then she throws a rock through the guy's window. Yes,
she sees him with one blonde. It doesn't wait to
get an explanation. She throws a rock through his window.
He's sot of a bitch. And it's like, wow, you
went to violence really quickly.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, And she reacts that way again when she finds
out that her dude Nick called and got her an audition,
and she steps out of a moving.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Car in a tunnel.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Yeah. So it's really interesting. So here's a character who
is who is kind of a girl becoming a woman,
having kind of her one of her first I don't
know if it's her first sexual experience, but it's kind
(30:25):
of portrayed that way. You know. It seems like she
she knew what she was doing, but she's definitely like
anywhere she goes, she's wearing baggy clothes. She's kind of
hiding herself. She confesses to the priest that she's sorry
that she's been having thoughts of sex, and she's just
(30:49):
very girlish who's having these sexual feelings. And I feel
like this is a lot This is much less the
Jerry Bruckheimer thing because a lot of their movies are
very like brotastic, like bros. Yeah, yeah, like those Look
(31:11):
at all the Bruckheimer movies, like Going Forward. It's really
a a bro romance between two dudes, you know, like
bad boys top gun, like you know, like Pirates of
the Caribbean. It's the director. I feel this is where
(31:34):
the I can feel the influence of the director Adrian Lyon,
who did Fatal Attraction in Decent Proposal kind of these
like you know, these sexy nineties yeah, like thriller dramas.
You know, this is I think Flash Dance is a
sexy movie because of him, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah, So I want to to toss in that marine.
Johan was Jennifer Beal's body double for the dancing scenes.
I want to get her name in.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
There good because she does. She is in the movie
so much.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
She is, But they kept her hidden from the press
because they didn't want to ruin the illusion.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Yeah, then they did a really poor job, because this
is it's always amusing to spot the double. But the
thing is, I've never seen a more obvious double in
anything except for the end here in Flash Dance, because
(32:39):
I'm pretty sure that Jennifer Beal's like she steps into
the room and then turns on the record and at
that point she's no longer in the scene. For like
the next three minutes, it is just the double, and
you can really, you can really clear, you can really
(33:00):
clearly see that it's not Jennifer Beals for like huge,
like from that on, you like they're there. You can
see her face for sure.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
The leap through the air and the audition scene was
done by a gymnast named Sharon Shapiro, and the break
dancing was done by Crazy Legs.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
And then everything else was the main.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Double was the main double marine Johann Yeah, who is
a beautiful dancer and deserves her day in the sun.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Yes, we've finally done you justice on our podcast.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yes we've brought you to the light, Johan.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
We're doing what we can.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
We're we don't have a.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Lot of power.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
But like you were saying, she she seems like such
a sweet young girl who's like having this awakening, but
she does really crass things, like when she is like
fondling him with her foot at the restaurant and then
(34:12):
the ex wife comes in and she's like, I fucked
his brains out. It's like, wow, that's really out of
character too. Girl that we get to know, and so we.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Always have to ask our question, the question when we
see something like that, is that are we supposed to
be on Jennifer on our character's side when they do
something like that, or do the filmmakers know that she's
being provocative and a little unhinged, Like when she steps
(34:44):
out of the car. You know, it's like and sometimes
you know, you play a game. It's like like in
the script you could say that she's angry, she steps
out of the car, she runs away, But then sometimes
like the perform and the director are like, no, we
want this to seem as inappropriate. We want her to
(35:06):
see like she's going too far. That will make her
more complex, you know. And so sometimes it's the way
that you actually perform it that is, you know, because
with any movie, you know, the the movie is saying
this is good. We we you should like this. You know,
(35:28):
like there's always like with with how people react and
how the world. Really that's the thing is is that
the movie can create how the world reacts to everyone,
you know, and so they're always saying like this is normal,
you should believe this, you should agree with this, or
this is how the world works, and you should not
(35:50):
agree with this on purpose. So so yeah, telling stories
like this especially when you know, like because with books
you can you don't get the intonation. You don't get
it's like texting, like you don't you can infer your
own subtext with the performance. But since this is performed
(36:15):
like like a play or a movie, you know it,
you know, it's like when if like if the audience,
if the character does something and everyone is grossed out,
are we to believe that the character is gross or
that we we actually side with the character and this
is normal. Are they wrong or are they right?
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Well, I feel like she's wrong for a lot.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Of this, and yeah, I feel like that's what the filmmakers.
When I say the filmmakers, I mean the the director
and the and the performers the actors were going for that.
She was unhinged and it was not positive right, Whereas
I feel like that kind of stuff doesn't appear in
(37:01):
like the Simpson and Bruckheimer stable, like everyone is too
everyone is too cool.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah, everyone is way too cool. And you can see
her making these mistakes and it's like, well, yeah, because
that's that you're making mistakes. You're eighteen and he's thirty six.
Like he's been divorced, he's been around the block, and
you're like just starting out in life. You don't belong together. Sorry,
(37:30):
sorry movie. Uh that was what I watched. This was Zoe,
my nineteen year old, and she was like, mom, it's gross.
Uh he's literally twice her age. And I was like, yep,
I'm sorry, he.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Might literally be almost twice her age. Let's get down.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
It said in the fun fact he was eighteen and
he's thirty six.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Okay, okay, tried you tried.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
You're doing your best for this movie, Nathan, which really
surprises me.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Uh huh. Well, the thing again, I want to reiterate
that I'm I'm I enjoyed this on an academic level,
you know, and like, if I could cut Flash Dance
down to the moments that I enjoyed, it would be
like a fifteen minute segment, you know.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
It would be a music video. Yeah, it would be
it was excellent songs.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
It would be like three or four music videos and
then that's it.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah. I feel like that's what Flash Dance should be.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yes, So my number at the end of this is
not going to be too terribly high.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Well, neither is mine. I did not enjoy this movie.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
I wasn't expecting much. Yeah, I wasn't expecting so.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Well, we're basically there. So on a scale of one
welding a helmet to ten welding. Hell, okay, well, better yet,
on a scale of one bra that you removed from
your shirt to ten bras you removed through your shirt,
(39:17):
how many bras do you give Flash Dance?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I feel like six. I feel like six is is fair.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Okay, I'm gonna go even lower and give it five, Okay,
because I did not enjoy this movie. I did not
love it, and I was really expecting to have some
fun with this movie. I was really disappointed. I've never
(39:48):
seen it. I've heard great things about it. People love it. It
did so well. I was really expecting to like BeO
bule in Away. It's ninety minutes. It's sticking all my boxes.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
I feel like this met my expectations, like having known
what the like, the Bruckheimer films are kind of like
and and that you know, and seeing the trailer and
just knowing about it. Nothing in this really surprised me.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Okay, well, I think we have a first where you
liked a movie more than me.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Oh, that can't be true.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I think it is. I think you've never liked a
movie more than me. I think I'm always the one
who is like, but it was fun. She's a man
and he comes to life.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
I feel like you're gaslighting me.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
I'm sorry. I want you. I want you to be
a dancer. Nathan.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
I feel like you're you're a racist and you're gaslighting me.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Oh no, oh no, did I tell you a Polish joke.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
No, they're fine, they're good people.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
They're not fine. There there they are good people. They
don't deserve the jokes that are told about them. Okay,
so what is your deep cut recommendation?
Speaker 3 (41:10):
So so my teap deep cut recommendation, and I don't
think I've recommended it before, so I can't. So I'm I.
I can't say that I love dance movies, but there
has been moments where I'm I'm totally in, like a
(41:30):
good dance number. I am, I am in. I don't
seek dance movies out, but so if you want, let's
say an adult movie that has like amazing dance, but
it is it's it's a little more about showbiz and
self destructive and and death. I can't think of a
(41:57):
better a better movie that is about dance than all
that jazz. Okay, So Roy Scheider, so Bob Fosse the choreographer,
like the famous choreographer. He directed this and it's really
kind of a a pseudo autobiography. So Roy Scheider is
(42:19):
a director and a choreographer and so he's doing these
like incredible. Just watch the trailer he does like like
this isn't like an Academy Award worthy film.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Okay, I've never seen it.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah, so maybe we is it from the eighties.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Let's look it up.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Look it up seventy nine.
Speaker 5 (42:47):
Up.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Well, I still I still recommend it. I still recommend it.
So yeah, it's really about you know, him burning the
candle at both ends, you know, the self destructive nature
of showbiz. But yeah, it's it's it's incredibly well made.
(43:12):
All that jazz. So yeah, if if you if you
want more dancing, but you also desperately want more story,
all that jazz.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Oh, that's a really good recommendation. Once again, Nathan's coming
through where I will fail. I recommend the hobby of welding,
which is a hobby that I took up. It is
really empowering, uh, to fuse two pieces of metal together
(43:50):
with an impenetrable bond of more metal. Uh. There's a
place here locally called the collaboratory where you can go
learn beginning welding, which I did and moved on to
intermediate welding and did not make it all the way
(44:12):
to advance welding because it got a little too scary
for me. It is dangerous, but I loved it. It was, like,
as I said, so empowering, so fun. And I welded
out of scrap metal and at eight.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Oh g is yeah like full size.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
No, it's about the size of a small dog. Ah.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Well, that's actually what I expected. I guess.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Yeah, full size would be bigger than my house. But
I recommend it. You can do. You can also do
welding and foundry and stuff like that at the Masa
Arts Center. And I'm sure that there's some place locally
wherever you're listening from where you can take welding and
(45:01):
blacksmithing classes. And I highly recommend it, especially for women.
It's very freeing and I love it so I love
that she's a welder by day and a dancer by night.
She must seem so free all the time. She must
(45:22):
feel so free all the time. Okay, well, wonderful. That
was a quick one. Thank you for listening. Thank you
for being here with us at the end. If you
like what you're hearing and also did not love flash dance,
or if you love flash dance and want to defend
it to us, please reach out to us. You can like,
(45:45):
rate reviews, subscribe, leave a comment, you can leave a
comment on YouTube, you can leave a comment, you know,
message us at most Excellent pod on Instagram, and I
hope you have nice things to say. But if you
want to defend Alex and her irrational behaviors to us,
(46:09):
please do. We're all ears. We're open to the idea
that maybe we got it wrong this time. You can
find us and become a member at true Story FM
for five dollars a month. You get every episode early
and with bonus content you get access to the discord
where you can become part of the true Story FM
(46:32):
family and discuss all of the shows that are available
to you. And it's really super fun. True story dot fm, Nathan.
Where can people find you and follow you and support you?
Speaker 3 (46:47):
So Squishystudios dot com is the best place. My movie
The Last Movie Ever Made is on Hulu and rentable
on Amazon and Apple. And if you want to follow
me on letterbox Nathan Blackwell, you might be able to
see what some of the movies were covering in the
(47:08):
future if you're curious. So I'm on Letterbox just under
my name Nathan Blackwell.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Excellent And did you say you're on Hulu now?
Speaker 3 (47:18):
No? No? Sorry to be.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Duh, to be okay, all right? I was really excited.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Yeah me too. Yeah to be with ads or rentable
or purchasable on Amazon and yeah, the other thing.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Purchase it. It's worth the five bucks or whatever it costs.
You can find me at the Neighborhood Comedy Theater in
downtown Mace, Arizona, doing improv comedy every Friday and Saturday night.
And while you're out there in the world, please keep
the most excellent eighties movies motto in mind. Be excellent
to each other and party it
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Most
Excellent Eighties Movies Podcast. Want to skip those ads and
get early access, become a member at true story dot fm,
slash join and discover all the other great parks that
come with it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello and welcome to the Most Excellent Eighties Movies Podcast.
It's the podcast where we weld and two step our
way through the eighties movies we think we love or
might have missed with These are modern eyes to see
how well we like them. Now you know how that goes.
(00:52):
And today we're talking about flash Dance, a movie selection
from nineteen eighty four eighty three, a movie selection from
nineteen eighty three about which the Google overview says. Alex Owens,
played by Jennifer Bials is a beautiful young woman who
(01:13):
works a day job in a steel mill and dances
in a bar and night. When Alex discovers that her
handsome boss, Nick Hurley played by Michael Norri, is both
interested in her and supportive of her performing career, she
renews her efforts to get accepted into a prestigious dance conservatory.
(01:34):
Although Alex is frightened of failure, she is cheered on
by Nick as well as her mentor former ballet performer
Hannah Long, played by Lilia Scala.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Where are we getting these synapsis from Google? I feel
like we need this to find a new source.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Okay, you don't like them, you don't find it. They're
accurate and compelling.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
They've been rough, they've been rough. Yeah, they've been rough.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Okay, Well here comes the trailer.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
You what got there? And music starts and you feel it.
Your body just smooths. There's something inside of you that
just clicks, and you're gone. It's like you're somebody else
for a while.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
Her name is Alex. She works in a man's world.
She dances in a world of her dreams.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Flash Dance, the music loves My Feeling flash Dance.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
If a dream comes true, just one time, it can
change your life for all times.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Where a stupid tagline, if a dream comes true just
one time, it can change your life for all time.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah it's not a great message.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah it's not. Also like, that's not really what this
movie is.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
If I had to say, yeah, I feel like they Yeah,
they kind of voice it in if you're if you
give up on your dream, you die is kind of
what they voice in the movie, right, really, I really
it's like she's talking to that.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Was that her grandma's but it was just her friend,
just her friend.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Admittedly, this is one of those movies where you can
totally enjoy flash dance but also watch things on your
phone as well. That's my hot take. Yeah, I feel
like there was one point I wanted the not grandma
to say, you know, you're good to fail more times
(05:00):
than you succeed, but you've got to get yourself out there.
She doesn't say that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
No, she doesn't say that.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
No, that's not the message of flash Flash.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
The message of flash answer is that if you fail once,
you're fucked.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Yeah, which is terrible news for a lot of us.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, it's true. It's the exact opposite of what we
teach people in improv.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Uh huh Yeah. I mean my experience is that you
I fail more like you know, so I teach film school.
They're always failing. They only fail almost almost all the time,
And that's okay, Like you need to learn what works
what doesn't. You're never going to put anything from film
school on your professional demo reel. Five years later, you're
(05:50):
going to try to get that off your reel as
soon as possible. It's a safe space for failure.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, it's the same for improv where making stuff up
as we go. You know, the mistakes are opportunities to
see what you can do better. And as someone who's
an improvisational dancer, you think that Alex would learn that
at some point down the line. But no, she never
learns that. That's not the message of the movie.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Well, she's not a so she isn't writing the movie.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
No, she's not writing. She's not writing her own ticket,
she's not writing her own life. She's just living it.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, welcome to Flash Dance.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Welcome to Flash Dance.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Despite just coming out of the gate, I actually enjoyed
quite a bit of this movie, Dan you and also
I wouldn't say disliked, but unenjoyed even more, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
One of those movies to where I recommend it. However,
even though it's a short movie, don't worry, it'll feel long.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
It did feel long, and it did, and I checked
several times to see how much of the movie was left.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
While watching it, which is one of the fun facts
I learned, was that the director and producer wanted it
to be two hours and five minutes, and then the
everyone was like, Nope, it needs to be ninety minutes
and you're done, and thank god, yeah, and thank god,
(07:35):
where is that voice now to make these fucking movies shorter? Yeah.
By the way, I'm Chrissy Lenz. One of the directors
at the Neighborhood Comedy Theater in downtown Mace, Arizona. With
me as always is.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Nathan Blackwell, independent filmmaker and umember, a.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Flashdown lover of.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
A let's not put words in my mouth.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
So we chose this movie because it's one of the
most popular movies of nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yea started it is one of It is one of
the most eighties movies that we've ever seen. Like it,
it can only be made in the eighties.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, yes, but I had never seen it. You had
never seen it, so neither one of us knew what
we were getting into. And I did not like this movie.
Spoilers spoiler alerts. I found like this. I found this
movie was it's a waste of time.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Uh huh. Now if I had so, I'm not upset
by that, mainly because I have no emotional stakes in
the movie whatsoever. There's a lot of fun moments and scenes,
but then there's just a lot of extra stuff. You know,
(09:06):
it's two to understand this movie, you've got to understand
that it's like the it is the progenitor of a
lot of eight a lot of others eighties movies, Like
there's no Top Gun without flash dance, because why do
you think that? So it's not that like Oh so
(09:28):
it's because literally it's the same producers and this was
their break in and they repeated this style of movie
going forward. So this is this is Simpson's Simpson and
Bruckheimer and so basically making the MTV style movies where
(09:56):
you know, so there's a lot of similarity between this
and Days of Thunder and all the Michael Bay movies.
This is kind of the the the the early beginnings
of all those movies. And and not only style, but
just like I mean, even with the characters journeys and
(10:19):
the romance stories and them having a dream and not
being able to pursue it, and and no I don't
have time for love. Oh okay, I'll make time for love.
All the the the flashy, unconsequential side characters. It's the
Bruckheimer Simpson model for like the next two decades, like
(10:44):
like going on for like so it's and then and
then in addition, there were the copycats. There's no dirty
Dancing or footloose without Flash Dance. So that's that's the
that's the movie that that. You know, it's like when
there's like a big hit out of nowhere and other
(11:07):
people try to reproduce it, it's like, oh, dance movies
are in again, like sex dance movies. And so that's
what that's what happened, because you have to understand, this
was a seven and a half million dollar movie that
made almost one hundred million dollars, so it was it
was a big deal. But also without Flash Dance wouldn't
(11:30):
have happened without Saturday Night Fever.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Of course. But yeah, and I get all of that,
and I'm i'm I'm fascinated to hear your your take
on that, and I'm you know, happy to have Flash
Dance in the long line of progenitors of movies that
I do, like, I'm grateful for its contribution. But I
(11:56):
didn't like the characters, like I didn't like all it.
I thought she was like unsustainably dumb, Like you know.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
I'm not disputing I'm not disputing any of that. I'm
not disputing any of that. If anything that I've said,
it's basically recommending it as an academic study, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay, this is the beginning.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
This is the beginning of like the Bruckheimer you know
style movie of like the eighties movies, as as an
MTV music video, which then morphed into you know, the Michael.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Bay movies, right, And I love that, but it's this,
Aside from the dancing sequence, this movie is no fun.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
The dancing is fun. Her dancing is super fun, and
we get to see some of the other girls dancing
and it's super fun. Y. I love the dancing sequences.
I don't even mind that we see them dance to
an entire song. I'm happy dance to the whole song,
dance to two songs.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I feel like we've seen a lot of more boring
movies that don't have kind of like highlights like this.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I don't have dancing, yes, and.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I'm not even a huge dancing guy, you know, but
you know, like, if you can get me with a
good dance sequence or a good musical sequence, then I'm
on board.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Are you saying you like this more? Than Beaches.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Beaches is a better movie. Yeah, but I probably liked
moment it's it's weird. It's like I like moments of
this movie better than any moment in Beaches. But Beaches
is a better movie for sure. Yeah it's Yeah. Now,
(14:12):
when I when I start off recommending this movie saying
that to see it again, I'm not. It's not under
the It's like, if you want to really eighties movies
to kind of you know, and you've got a couple
drinks in you, and it's and you you can you
(14:33):
can go to the bathroom or even take a phone
call for ten to fifteen minutes and come back to
the movie and still get the same enjoyment value. Adt it.
This is that movie.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Okay, all right, So it's about, as we said in
the over you Alex, who is a welder by day.
We get her riding her bike and doing a welding
montage to the song what If, which is a great
beginning of the movie. I'm like, okay, I'm into this.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
What Yeah, there's there's so there's so many good bangers,
as they say in terms of eighties songs in this
in this movie.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
It's true, which is why our bonus content for today
is going to be movie soundtracks.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
We love awesome.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah, it is gonna be awesome. But we we also
see her at the bar that she works at and
she does this the splash dance, as we'll call it, right,
Her boss from the steel yard shows up and is
(15:41):
a smitten kitten. Her friends include a burger Flippin' chef.
I wouldn't say chef, I would say cook.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
He's not getting any Michelin stars out here, No, and
he is a teller of racist, in appropriate jokes. He
wants to be a comedian, so his dream.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Is to want the kes to be fair.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
But yes, well, which is like what the number one
rule of comedy. You can't just tell jokes. You have
to have a point of view, And like this point.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Of view is he has no future as a comedy.
He has no future as a comedian.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
But it's like you said that, he's part of this
story of like if you fail at your dream, then
you just shut down your whole life and uh live
unhappily forever after right.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
I feel like we're not going to make much progress
going through the plot of Flash Dance.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
No, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I feel like the best version of flash Dance is
when they show clips of it when they're talking about
other movies like eighties movies, or even just the trailer,
you know, is the best version of what they've done here.
You know, all the yeah, all the supporting characters, there's
(17:06):
really not much of an arc to them. The only
the only supporting character that that fascinates me is the
is the owner slash you know, bar, the bar owner
of the play.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Well, but just to go back for a minute, her
best friend is also is a waitress at the bar
where she dances, and she wants to be a figure skater.
So you've got the kok who wants to be a
stand up comedian and the waitress who wants to be
a figure skater. But she goes to her figure skating
(17:44):
recital and fails. She falls down twice, and then the
boss is all like, well, she'll do better next time,
and Alex is like, there's not gonna be a next time, which, uh.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Just the consequences of failure after.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Of one failure, one time you fall in your ass,
you're donezo for good. There's not going to be a
next time. Give up on your dream.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
So we see a lot of examples of people who
get one shot.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
The racist uh uh, comedian he goes to l A
all the way to l A. He does one gig
at a club, doesn't get good laughs, so he comes
back with his hat in his hand.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Yeah. So many examples of of of dreamers who have failed.
And is is I don't know if if the Pollock's
probably not even the probably even saying Pollock is racist
not racist, I don't know the race. It's it's bigoted.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Okay, Okay, Well I'm Polish.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
They're Polish for.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, and I know that. So it's just another example
to me of how this movie doesn't hold up. Even
though I'm hearing you say that it is the progenitor
of all these things that we love, it's still it
doesn't hold up on its.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Own and I and and I'm not arguing that.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Okay, good, I'm glad that you're not. I also want
to talk about, you know, when when we say that
we're going back and looking at these movies with modern eyes,
there's a little bit of a hypocrisy. I think too.
Of like her friend Jeanie, eventually, this is how we
(19:50):
know she's given up on her life. Is she goes
across the street, uh to Johnny sees all new dancing place,
and she's not even dancing. She's just laying on her
back waving her legs in the air because she wasn't.
She was not, none of them were. But Alex goes
(20:14):
and like drags her out of there, and it's like this,
what you're gonna do with your life? Be a trashy stripper.
And it's like, well, you're a trashy stripper? Like what
just because she takes her top off doesn't make her
that much worse than you. And granted the club is
like way sleazier, and we can tell from.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Like burlesque dancers. This is a dive bar with a
burlesque dancer stage.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Which is the funny thing. Like I was gonna go
to this bar.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
It's so I want to get back to the owner,
who is kind of.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
The owner none.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
The owner is like he's like the the bald guy
from What's it? The the the owner of Maybe's. Yeah,
the owner of Maybe's. He's like the guy from geez,
what's that? That's what's the adult swim show with like
the the the talking drink and hamburger.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Uh hu.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Yeah. So he's like the gruff guy in that, like
the human, like the fat human in that. That's who
he is and who sold him on this concept.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I'm having your burlesque like it is.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
It's not just like a cheesy stage like it's a
full production. It's like a glowing stage with props, and
the dancers can really do whatever they want, you know.
There's some really like crazy, like art driven performance pieces.
(21:59):
And he's just like shrugs his shoulders. I'm just the owner.
They could do what they.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Want, you know, yep, and we have to assume they're
not repeating the same dances twice, right, And.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
So I just would have loved to see the conversation
where he was sold on this concept.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
I want to go to this bar that this is
the fun. Part of the of the thing is that
the people at this bar get to see these beautiful
burlesque performances and like, you know, we're we're not seeing
their clientele as being sleazy for taking in these burlesque
performances where the women are stripping just not down to
(22:41):
their underpants, but they all look down on the strippers.
It's like you're doing the same thing.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
You know, Well, it's not though it's not though, like
the burlesque performances are not the same thing as as
the strip club.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Well, I get that we're supposed to see it that way,
that the strip club is the sleazy step down, but
in the grand scheme of things, it's it's the same difference.
You're still you know, dancing and taking your clothes off
for the people who come to see you.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
But the burless show is not nude.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
No, it's not nude, but they get down to wet lingerie.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
U huh.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
So you can't really say that it's not to titillate
the audience.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I feel like it is titillating. But the burlesque is
much more kind of an equal level of the artistic
performance and more empowerment on the performer, and it's more
seen as a show.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
You know, I get that. But it's like the story
that we're being told is that the burlesque fanters want
to be there because they're so free and empowered, and
the strippers don't want to be there because they're empty,
soulless failures. And it's like, I would like to see
a little bit more positivity in the life of a stripper, because,
(24:19):
you know, a lot of what they do is pretty
artistic too. I get that that's not what we're supposed
to be seeing in this movie, but like, have you've
ever seen a girl dance on a pole? They work hard,
hard for that money.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
So both of us so I'm I'm like, no, no,
burlesque is an art and you're like, no, no, no, stripping
is also on art. We're like, miss, we're misstepped. We're
both thinking that the other one is arguing the opposite
of what we're arguing.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Right, And granted, what she was doing was no art.
She was just waving her ankles in the air, yeah,
saying and she wasn't even saying look at my boobies.
It was like she was saying, look at my vagina,
which is covered by cloth. So so I was just like,
(25:11):
let's be a little more stripper positive movie, especially with
the way Alex drags her out of there, like you
gotta get out of here. This is terrible. Put your
jacket on. You're naked, and she's like, well, you're naked too.
Mm hm, No, I'm in a wet lingerie. I'm classy.
(25:35):
We can both be classy dolls. We don't have to
tear each other down. We can lift each other up. Yeah,
but you're right, we're not gonna get anywhere by trying
to go through the plot of this movie. It is
like you said, it's like a beat poem. It's like
a music video. It just bounces from one thing.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, it's kind of It's part Saturday Night favor it's
part Rocky you know, to where you know, I'm in
a blue color background, I've got a dream. I'm a dreamer.
I'm different than all these other people. I've got a
secret life, and this is the thing that's gonna pull
(26:19):
me up.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah. I did love the workout sequence where they're working out.
It's actually pretty funny because they're like lifting weights and stuff.
And then there's she's with all her dancer friends.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Which it is soul on like a music video, like
it's an it is.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
It is a funny music video.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
It's a it's filmed against a white glowing void as
they're all just kind of working out. Yeah, and so
that this is the fun. This is the fun of
flash dance. Yeah, and then the un fun is everything
in between, you know. But I I feel like we
kind of get a bit of this with Footloos too.
(27:03):
To where there's a lot of stuff that happens that
I just don't care about, you know. Footloose was a
little more engaging, but there was also plenty of stuff
toward It's like, okay, we're the remote.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, I'm I'm over this, I'm done with it. But
so she does fall in love with her boss mm hmm.
She uh sleeps with him on the first date after
they watch her friend fail.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
She's got a great pickup line, by the way, like
he's so he's He comes off as like is he
a sleez? Is he not a sleez? So at the
end of their first date, he's gonna leave, and she says, well,
don't you want some pizza?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:59):
They start making out, which is now my new line
that you.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Want some pizza and people will go flash dance. Are
you flash dancing me, Nathan, No.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
I'm bringing it back.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah. She also takes her bra off under her sweater.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
I feel like that's the move. You need to learn
how to do that. Put a bra, take it off
under your sweater.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yes. I think it became a thing.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Is it's a thing because it's a necessity, Yes, But I.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Mean like it became a thing. Yeah, like like Tom
Cruise sliding across in his in his socks, risky business.
It became a thing. What what are your thoughts on?
So what are your thoughts on Jennifer Beale the performer.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Oh? I enjoyed her. I thought she was beautiful. Zoe
said she was the prettiest girl she's ever seen.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
I love the idea that she's dancing, even though that's
a stunt performer, it's well, not a stunt performer, it's
a dancer.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah. Yeah, she was super super charming and super super cute.
I think Alex her character was great up until she
was emotionally she was romantically jilted.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Well, and then she throws a rock through the guy's window. Yes,
she sees him with one blonde. It doesn't wait to
get an explanation. She throws a rock through his window.
He's sot of a bitch. And it's like, wow, you
went to violence really quickly.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, And she reacts that way again when she finds
out that her dude Nick called and got her an audition,
and she steps out of a moving.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Car in a tunnel.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Yeah. So it's really interesting. So here's a character who
is who is kind of a girl becoming a woman,
having kind of her one of her first I don't
know if it's her first sexual experience, but it's kind
(30:25):
of portrayed that way. You know. It seems like she
she knew what she was doing, but she's definitely like
anywhere she goes, she's wearing baggy clothes. She's kind of
hiding herself. She confesses to the priest that she's sorry
that she's been having thoughts of sex, and she's just
(30:49):
very girlish who's having these sexual feelings. And I feel
like this is a lot This is much less the
Jerry Bruckheimer thing because a lot of their movies are
very like brotastic, like bros. Yeah, yeah, like those Look
(31:11):
at all the Bruckheimer movies, like Going Forward. It's really
a a bro romance between two dudes, you know, like
bad boys top gun, like you know, like Pirates of
the Caribbean. It's the director. I feel this is where
(31:34):
the I can feel the influence of the director Adrian Lyon,
who did Fatal Attraction in Decent Proposal kind of these
like you know, these sexy nineties yeah, like thriller dramas.
You know, this is I think Flash Dance is a
sexy movie because of him, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah, So I want to to toss in that marine.
Johan was Jennifer Beal's body double for the dancing scenes.
I want to get her name in.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
There good because she does. She is in the movie
so much.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
She is, But they kept her hidden from the press
because they didn't want to ruin the illusion.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Yeah, then they did a really poor job, because this
is it's always amusing to spot the double. But the
thing is, I've never seen a more obvious double in
anything except for the end here in Flash Dance, because
(32:39):
I'm pretty sure that Jennifer Beal's like she steps into
the room and then turns on the record and at
that point she's no longer in the scene. For like
the next three minutes, it is just the double, and
you can really, you can really clear, you can really
(33:00):
clearly see that it's not Jennifer Beals for like huge,
like from that on, you like they're there. You can
see her face for sure.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
The leap through the air and the audition scene was
done by a gymnast named Sharon Shapiro, and the break
dancing was done by Crazy Legs.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
And then everything else was the main.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Double was the main double marine Johann Yeah, who is
a beautiful dancer and deserves her day in the sun.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Yes, we've finally done you justice on our podcast.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yes we've brought you to the light, Johan.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
We're doing what we can.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
We're we don't have a.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Lot of power.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
But like you were saying, she she seems like such
a sweet young girl who's like having this awakening, but
she does really crass things, like when she is like
fondling him with her foot at the restaurant and then
(34:12):
the ex wife comes in and she's like, I fucked
his brains out. It's like, wow, that's really out of
character too. Girl that we get to know, and so we.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Always have to ask our question, the question when we
see something like that, is that are we supposed to
be on Jennifer on our character's side when they do
something like that, or do the filmmakers know that she's
being provocative and a little unhinged, Like when she steps
(34:44):
out of the car. You know, it's like and sometimes
you know, you play a game. It's like like in
the script you could say that she's angry, she steps
out of the car, she runs away, But then sometimes
like the perform and the director are like, no, we
want this to seem as inappropriate. We want her to
(35:06):
see like she's going too far. That will make her
more complex, you know. And so sometimes it's the way
that you actually perform it that is, you know, because
with any movie, you know, the the movie is saying
this is good. We we you should like this. You know,
(35:28):
like there's always like with with how people react and
how the world. Really that's the thing is is that
the movie can create how the world reacts to everyone,
you know, and so they're always saying like this is normal,
you should believe this, you should agree with this, or
this is how the world works, and you should not
(35:50):
agree with this on purpose. So so yeah, telling stories
like this especially when you know, like because with books
you can you don't get the intonation. You don't get
it's like texting, like you don't you can infer your
own subtext with the performance. But since this is performed
(36:15):
like like a play or a movie, you know it,
you know, it's like when if like if the audience,
if the character does something and everyone is grossed out,
are we to believe that the character is gross or
that we we actually side with the character and this
is normal. Are they wrong or are they right?
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Well, I feel like she's wrong for a lot.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Of this, and yeah, I feel like that's what the filmmakers.
When I say the filmmakers, I mean the the director
and the and the performers the actors were going for that.
She was unhinged and it was not positive right, Whereas
I feel like that kind of stuff doesn't appear in
(37:01):
like the Simpson and Bruckheimer stable, like everyone is too
everyone is too cool.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah, everyone is way too cool. And you can see
her making these mistakes and it's like, well, yeah, because
that's that you're making mistakes. You're eighteen and he's thirty six.
Like he's been divorced, he's been around the block, and
you're like just starting out in life. You don't belong together. Sorry,
(37:30):
sorry movie. Uh that was what I watched. This was Zoe,
my nineteen year old, and she was like, mom, it's gross.
Uh he's literally twice her age. And I was like, yep,
I'm sorry, he.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Might literally be almost twice her age. Let's get down.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
It said in the fun fact he was eighteen and
he's thirty six.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Okay, okay, tried you tried.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
You're doing your best for this movie, Nathan, which really
surprises me.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Uh huh. Well, the thing again, I want to reiterate
that I'm I'm I enjoyed this on an academic level,
you know, and like, if I could cut Flash Dance
down to the moments that I enjoyed, it would be
like a fifteen minute segment, you know.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
It would be a music video. Yeah, it would be
it was excellent songs.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
It would be like three or four music videos and
then that's it.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah. I feel like that's what Flash Dance should be.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yes, So my number at the end of this is
not going to be too terribly high.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Well, neither is mine. I did not enjoy this movie.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
I wasn't expecting much. Yeah, I wasn't expecting so.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Well, we're basically there. So on a scale of one
welding a helmet to ten welding. Hell, okay, well, better yet,
on a scale of one bra that you removed from
your shirt to ten bras you removed through your shirt,
(39:17):
how many bras do you give Flash Dance?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I feel like six. I feel like six is is fair.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Okay, I'm gonna go even lower and give it five, Okay,
because I did not enjoy this movie. I did not
love it, and I was really expecting to have some
fun with this movie. I was really disappointed. I've never
(39:48):
seen it. I've heard great things about it. People love it. It
did so well. I was really expecting to like BeO
bule in Away. It's ninety minutes. It's sticking all my boxes.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
I feel like this met my expectations, like having known
what the like, the Bruckheimer films are kind of like
and and that you know, and seeing the trailer and
just knowing about it. Nothing in this really surprised me.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Okay, well, I think we have a first where you
liked a movie more than me.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Oh, that can't be true.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I think it is. I think you've never liked a
movie more than me. I think I'm always the one
who is like, but it was fun. She's a man
and he comes to life.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
I feel like you're gaslighting me.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
I'm sorry. I want you. I want you to be
a dancer. Nathan.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
I feel like you're you're a racist and you're gaslighting me.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Oh no, oh no, did I tell you a Polish joke.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
No, they're fine, they're good people.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
They're not fine. There there they are good people. They
don't deserve the jokes that are told about them. Okay,
so what is your deep cut recommendation?
Speaker 3 (41:10):
So so my teap deep cut recommendation, and I don't
think I've recommended it before, so I can't. So I'm I.
I can't say that I love dance movies, but there
has been moments where I'm I'm totally in, like a
(41:30):
good dance number. I am, I am in. I don't
seek dance movies out, but so if you want, let's
say an adult movie that has like amazing dance, but
it is it's it's a little more about showbiz and
self destructive and and death. I can't think of a
(41:57):
better a better movie that is about dance than all
that jazz. Okay, So Roy Scheider, so Bob Fosse the choreographer,
like the famous choreographer. He directed this and it's really
kind of a a pseudo autobiography. So Roy Scheider is
(42:19):
a director and a choreographer and so he's doing these
like incredible. Just watch the trailer he does like like
this isn't like an Academy Award worthy film.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Okay, I've never seen it.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah, so maybe we is it from the eighties.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Let's look it up.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Look it up seventy nine.
Speaker 5 (42:47):
Up.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Well, I still I still recommend it. I still recommend it.
So yeah, it's really about you know, him burning the
candle at both ends, you know, the self destructive nature
of showbiz. But yeah, it's it's it's incredibly well made.
(43:12):
All that jazz. So yeah, if if you if you
want more dancing, but you also desperately want more story,
all that jazz.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Oh, that's a really good recommendation. Once again, Nathan's coming
through where I will fail. I recommend the hobby of welding,
which is a hobby that I took up. It is
really empowering, uh, to fuse two pieces of metal together
(43:50):
with an impenetrable bond of more metal. Uh. There's a
place here locally called the collaboratory where you can go
learn beginning welding, which I did and moved on to
intermediate welding and did not make it all the way
(44:12):
to advance welding because it got a little too scary
for me. It is dangerous, but I loved it. It was, like,
as I said, so empowering, so fun. And I welded
out of scrap metal and at eight.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Oh g is yeah like full size.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
No, it's about the size of a small dog. Ah.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Well, that's actually what I expected. I guess.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Yeah, full size would be bigger than my house. But
I recommend it. You can do. You can also do
welding and foundry and stuff like that at the Masa
Arts Center. And I'm sure that there's some place locally
wherever you're listening from where you can take welding and
(45:01):
blacksmithing classes. And I highly recommend it, especially for women.
It's very freeing and I love it so I love
that she's a welder by day and a dancer by night.
She must seem so free all the time. She must
(45:22):
feel so free all the time. Okay, well, wonderful. That
was a quick one. Thank you for listening. Thank you
for being here with us at the end. If you
like what you're hearing and also did not love flash dance,
or if you love flash dance and want to defend
it to us, please reach out to us. You can like,
(45:45):
rate reviews, subscribe, leave a comment, you can leave a
comment on YouTube, you can leave a comment, you know,
message us at most Excellent pod on Instagram, and I
hope you have nice things to say. But if you
want to defend Alex and her irrational behaviors to us,
(46:09):
please do. We're all ears. We're open to the idea
that maybe we got it wrong this time. You can
find us and become a member at true Story FM
for five dollars a month. You get every episode early
and with bonus content you get access to the discord
where you can become part of the true Story FM
(46:32):
family and discuss all of the shows that are available
to you. And it's really super fun. True story dot fm, Nathan.
Where can people find you and follow you and support you?
Speaker 3 (46:47):
So Squishystudios dot com is the best place. My movie
The Last Movie Ever Made is on Hulu and rentable
on Amazon and Apple. And if you want to follow
me on letterbox Nathan Blackwell, you might be able to
see what some of the movies were covering in the
(47:08):
future if you're curious. So I'm on Letterbox just under
my name Nathan Blackwell.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Excellent And did you say you're on Hulu now?
Speaker 3 (47:18):
No? No? Sorry to be.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Duh, to be okay, all right? I was really excited.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Yeah me too. Yeah to be with ads or rentable
or purchasable on Amazon and yeah, the other thing.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Purchase it. It's worth the five bucks or whatever it costs.
You can find me at the Neighborhood Comedy Theater in
downtown Mace, Arizona, doing improv comedy every Friday and Saturday night.
And while you're out there in the world, please keep
the most excellent eighties movies motto in mind. Be excellent
to each other and party it
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