December 4, 2014 • 38 mins
Welcome to my fourth interview in the "Get Started Running Series".
Today I chat with Steve Boyd.
Steve is the founder and coach of the Physi-Kult running group in Kingston, Ontario, Canada. Steve is an accomplished runner at many distances (2:17 for the marathon!). Many of his best times came after the age of 30.
I think you will get a lot out of my chat with Steve. He brings running experience both from the competitive athlete side and the coaching side that not many have.
To view the show notes for this episode, go to http://www.healthynomics.com/20.
If you want to subscribe to my free email series, that will take you from the couch to running regularly (pain free) click here.
In this podcast, you will learn about:- What a program for a new runners looks like.
- How Steve screens the runners he works with before setting up their running program.
- Whether alternating walking with running is a good place to start for new runners.
- What matters more, time or distance.
- What the most common mistake that runners make are.
- Advanced training strategies that new runners can benefit form as well.
- Are generic running programs taking from the internet good for beginners?
- Why beginners should included strength training in their program.
- Which strength exercises are the best for runners.
- Specific considerations for aging runners.
Enjoy.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey. What's up, everybody? Welcome to episode
number 20 of the HealthInomicspodcast. I'm your host, Mark
Kennedy, coming at you fromToronto, Ontario, Canada, and
thanks as always for listening.This is lesson number four of my
get started running series.
Be sure to sign up if you wannajoin my five part email course
(00:22):
to help you get started anddiscover the enjoyment of
running. Head over toHealthianomics.com/startrunning
if you wanna sign up to that.Today, I chat with Steve Boyd.
I'll give you a bit of a brief,intro, on Steve and who he is.
Steve is an elite Canadiandistance runner, a three time
national champion on the trackand road, an active masters
(00:45):
competitor who now coaches thephysical Kingston Running Group
and Queen's University CrossCountry Track Club.
He's got some impressive PBs, at800 meters, one fifty two, 15
hundred meters, three fortyseven, 10 k, twenty eight forty
one, a half marathon time of onezero three thirty six, and a
(01:07):
marathon time of two seventeentwenty eight. Those are some
some ridiculously fast times. Intoday's podcast, I chat with
Steve about what a program fornew runners looks like, how
Steve screens the runners heworks with before setting up
their running program, whetheralternating walking and running
is a good place to start for newrunners, what matters more time
(01:30):
or distance especially forbeginners, What's the most
common mistake that runnersmake? Advanced training
strategies that new runners canalso benefit from. I talked to
Steve about whether or notgeneric running programs taken
from the Internet are good forbeginners.
Why beginners should includestrength training in their
programs, which strengthtraining exercises are best for
(01:53):
runners, and specificconsiderations for aging
runners.
Mark Kennedy (01:56):
I think you're gonna get a lot out of this
episode. For all the
Speaker 1 (01:59):
links I mentioned in this conversation and a full
transcription for all youreaders, head over to
healthenomics.com/twenty, and Ihope you enjoy the episode.
Thanks for listening.
Steve Boyd (02:13):
Welcome to the Healthinomics Podcast. Boosting
your health and fitness IQ oneepisode at a time. And now your
host Mark Kennedy.
Mark Kennedy (02:24):
Welcome to the show Steve, it's an honor to
talk to you.
Steve Boyd (02:27):
Thanks. Glad to be here.
Mark Kennedy (02:28):
That's great. So for those listeners who aren't
familiar with you, why don't wejust start, maybe you can just
give us a little background on,who you are, sort of, I mean,
where where you grew up, how yougot into running, and a quick
overview of your running careerand and what you're up to right
now with regards to running.
Steve Boyd (02:45):
Sure. If you want an overview of my career, it might
take a while because
Mark Kennedy (02:49):
It's been a long one.
Steve Boyd (02:51):
Six years long. But, yeah, like a lot of Canadians
athletes, came out of a hockeybackground and wanted to do that
until I was probably 14 or 15and like a lot of people
realized I was a little toosmall but I got a lot of
conditioning from the othersports I'd done, basketball and
hockey. And so I just byaccident ran a primary school
(03:12):
race in 800 meters and won thatand thought, well, that was too
bad and just kind of kept goingfrom there because I was
winning. So this is in Kingston,Ontario back in the late '70s
and then '80s, I went to FrohnakHigh School here in Kingston.
Started doing well, pretty wellin grade nine and ten, running
middle distance eight andfifteen.
Finished high school, decided tostay here at Queen's University
(03:35):
because the team at that timewas defending CI's champ. Were
in some ways the Guelph of theday although their dynasty
wasn't I think they won threeout of five years or three out
of four. So it was a goodchoice. That's
Mark Kennedy (03:46):
pretty good though.
Steve Boyd (03:47):
Yeah, we were a solid team so it really for me
at the time didn't seem like acompromise with the NCAA which
had some offers there as well.So I stayed in Canada and ran in
the CIS and was all Canadian Ithink all four years.
Mark Kennedy (04:00):
Were you running cross country or what other
distances were you running?
Steve Boyd (04:03):
I was running primarily cross country. I I did
a little bit of indoors but notuntil third or fourth year
because in those days, thetrials for the national cross
country, the world cross countrychampionships were in February
so I usually focused on thatduring the winter. I only ran
indoors I think in my third andfourth year.
Mark Kennedy (04:19):
Okay.
Steve Boyd (04:20):
So I went on from there to I was running
professionally while going tograd school at New York
University in Toronto. I ran theroads, made several national
teams, got better and betterinto my mid to late 30s, ran a
marathon in my late 30s, ran twoseventeen. I had a lot of wins
and up until age 38 more or lessretired and then took it up
(04:43):
again and I didn't stop runningbut I stopped competing for a
couple of years, a year and ahalf and went into masters and
then sort of redoubled my focusthere and broke some records and
won some national titles and soon and that's kind of brings me
to where we are now at sort offiftyfifty one, cranking it out
and thus like still relativelyhealthy so.
Mark Kennedy (05:04):
Congratulations and are you focusing, obviously
you're still running but you'realso coaching, correct?
Steve Boyd (05:10):
Yeah, along the way I started coaching. I started
coaching my teammates back inToronto back in the 90s then had
a few private clients justbefore I moved back to Kingston
to start teaching at Queen'sUniversity. Also I got a
doctorate during those years aswell and had two kids and we
raised those kids too.
Mark Kennedy (05:28):
You're busy man.
Steve Boyd (05:30):
Yeah, at one point sort of late 90s it was
ridiculously busy. I wasworking, I was running
professionally. So I wasteaching, finishing my doctorate
running and trying to raise kidsand make the Olympic team in
that year. So I got pretty busybut I was able to do some
coaching at that time. InFebruary I came back and I
started a small group calledPhysical Running which is what I
(05:52):
do now with four or five womenin the neighborhood who just
wanted to get in shape.
I had a lot of success withthem, built the group over the
years and then launched theonline aspect in I think it was
02/2006, '2 thousand and '7 andthen 2010 started coaching at
Queen's University here inKingston, Alabama. I've been
doing that for the last, I guessI'm in my fifth year now.
Mark Kennedy (06:14):
Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah. I've been
following your blog for a while.Alex Hutchinson, who, who you
know obviously Yep. Pointed meto your blog, a while back.
So that's sort of how I I got toknow you a bit better. I I I've
heard about you before in yourrunning, but I didn't know you
had, you know, your site andyour online or your coaching and
(06:36):
your and your blog there. Soanyways, to anyone listening, I
would recommend checking it outand I'll put a link to your site
in the in the show notes forsure.
Steve Boyd (06:44):
Yeah. Thanks. I I never know who reads that thing.
I just, once in a while, throwsomething up there. I'm not as
good about updating it latelybecause I'm just been so busy,
but and and my posts tend to bepretty long too.
So
Mark Kennedy (06:54):
Yeah. You know what? I I've read all your
stuff, and a lot of that, youknow, your posts are timeless
pieces so it doesn't reallymatter that you haven't updated
it that often really.
Steve Boyd (07:03):
Well you know that's kind of the idea is that I
create content that's not sortof dated in any way, know, I
mean it's more coaching advicerather than kind of what I had
for breakfast that day.
Mark Kennedy (07:12):
Yeah. No. It's great. So today, as I mentioned
to you before we, started thecall here, I want to talk about,
or focus on mostly new runners.I'm doing a series here, on the
blog and podcast, for newrunners.
So when if someone comes to you,someone who's maybe maybe they
(07:32):
did a little bit of sportgrowing up, but they're they're
new to running and maybe theywanna lose some pounds, where do
you start those people and whatwhat sort of does their program
look like? I know it it's gonnadiffer depending on their
background, but sort of, Iguess, take me through your
process and what are sort of thequestions you would want
answered for that person.
Steve Boyd (07:52):
Yeah. I actually have an in an intake, inventory
that I that I I give to all newrunners and I I rarely get
people that are real beginners,rank beginners, the kind of
people that go to running roomand kind of learn to run. Most
of the people I take on havedone a little bit of running,
maybe not as much now as they'vedone in the past but they're
usually fairly committed runnerswho want to get to the next
(08:14):
level. And what I ask them isbasic stuff. What's your age?
What's your height and weight?What are your PBs from 100
meters to the marathon? What'syour injury history, what are
your short term goals, what areyour long term goals and then I
ask for a picture or video ofthem so I can have a look at a
little sense of how they moveand then we go from there.
Mark Kennedy (08:37):
So that's great and when you get that picture
video, what are sort of thewhat's going through your head
there? What are you looking for?Are you looking at obviously a
video of them running or and orwalking? Are you looking at for
their form or what sort ofthings are you looking for?
Steve Boyd (08:52):
Usually, I, you know, I look at sort of, you
know, what kind of shape they'rein. If they're if they obviously
have weights, some people thinkthat they're they're they have a
decent weight to to trainheavily and they're actually a
little heavy so I'm carefulabout loading their volume.
Yeah. Also just you can sort ofsense by how somebody moves, how
much running they've done, inparticular their cadence. We can
get a video and if you see thattheir cadence is up 180 and
(09:12):
above that you know they've donea fair amount of running or they
naturally have a high cadencewhich is a great thing to see.
When someone's turning over 150,one and 60 steps, you know that
they haven't developed theneural pathways and they're
probably going to be putting alot of stress on their body when
they run. They're taking a lotof weight within stride. So
these are the little things tohelp orient you so that you
don't get the person doing toomuch early on. And I have a rule
(09:36):
that or a goal I have for allnew athletes and it's that they
don't get injured in the firstyear at all. So sometimes I have
to be quite conservative withthem and all that data on their
injury history and theirathletics history really helps
them kind of avoid injuries inthe early going.
Mark Kennedy (09:50):
Mhmm. Yeah. No. That's fantastic. And for these
people, you know, once you'vegone through the the intake
process, where do you startthem?
What sort of I mean, I saythey're say they're looking
their goal is to run, anywherefrom five to 10 k. Do you start
them on a on a running slashwalking program, or is it just
(10:12):
running, or what does that looklike?
Steve Boyd (10:14):
Well, like I say, most of my athletes have done a
little bit of running, so we wewe take a a short term goal.
Short term would be in the nextthree months, medium term goal
would be within a year and thenlong term is what they hope to
achieve in the sport. So westart right away in the short
term goal. The person's goal isto run a five ks then I mean the
lowest volume I'd have somebodyon and when I first started my
(10:36):
group in the early 2000s, allfour of my athletes were doing
this but generally about fivedays a week, forty five minutes
for their easy runs and theyhave two workouts in there, two
long sessions, a tempo run andan interval session, intervals
between one and three minutes,one and five minutes. Tempo is
between twenty and forty minutesand they get the days off after
(10:56):
those workouts and that's abread and butter kind of program
and you sort of see how far theycan go on that and some people
can go up to a year on thatstill improving and we don't
really add volume until theystop improving.
So that would be, that'stypically the lowest volume.
Somebody's not ready to do atleast that much, I generally
tell them to go away and run ontheir own for a while and try to
work their way up to that muchso that we can so we get going a
(11:18):
little more quickly. It's notworth my time in theirs if they
really aren't at the point wherethey can run even that much. So
again, I don't really deal withkind of rank beginners, I then
tend to deal with people whowanna get to the next level.
Mark Kennedy (11:29):
Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. For for people though
that say weren't at that level,like is walking, alternating
walking and running a good placeto start?
Steve Boyd (11:39):
Yeah, walking, yeah absolutely it's great. Know what
running room does with the startto run with the ten and one is
fantastic. You even startsomeone at one and one if they
had weight to lose and they hadthe usual run of shin and lower
leg problems. It does take awhile to build up the strength
in the calves and feet to beable to run particularly if
you're carrying a little extraweight. So just spending time on
(12:00):
your feet is great.
Walking two or three hours at ago is fantastic or an hour, an
hour and a half, whatever youhave, is great and it's a great
way to prepare to run. And ifyou just start to feel good,
throw a little bit of jogging inthere and you're away. I mean my
mother started running like thatyears and years ago when I got
her going and she ended uprunning two marathons and like a
(12:21):
forty one minute ten ks when shewas in her 40s and she's just
walking. She was a smoker aswell, was pretty remarkable.
Mark Kennedy (12:26):
That's amazing. And then another question I I
get once in a while, and I loveto hear your take on. Initially,
what's what's more important? Isit time on the feet or distance
run for you know, we're talking,again, for beginners. Maybe
maybe they're a bit below sortof some of the athletes you're
working with.
(12:47):
But Yeah. Yeah. What
Steve Boyd (12:49):
I always I always go with time. I don't want people
to feel time pressure to cover acertain distance in a certain
time. I mean, actually all myathletes all the way up to elite
level run on time. I knowroughly what the top people are
gonna run per kilometer per, youknow, on an hour run or an hour
and a half run, but I still givethem time duration rather than
(13:10):
distance. With beginners,definitely.
I mean, you think in terms ofminutes, absolutely.
Mark Kennedy (13:15):
And why is that? What's the rationale behind
Steve Boyd (13:18):
Well, again, I don't like people to know to think
about how they're going becausethen they feel time pressure and
they think that they often thinkknow, it's intuitive to think
that if I do it a little faster,I'll get I'll get a better
workout out of it. And andthat's the enemy of of
consistency really is thatpeople feel like that running a
little faster is better. It'sbetter right away to think of
them and have them think interms of just be out here for an
(13:40):
hour or forty five minutes orwhatever hitting the ground
without any pressure to gofaster. And that way they
develop good habits around theirtraining and they realize that
easy is easy and that if youwant to get the most out your
workouts, need to come in withthe volume in your legs but not
with undue stress from runningtoo fast on your easy days. So
(14:00):
it's all about developing goodwork habits in the early stages.
Mark Kennedy (14:03):
That makes a lot of sense and I think for, you
know, for a new runner as well,their body will be, in a little
bit of shock, and their body isonly gonna know, like, how long
they were out there. It's notgonna know whether they went,
you know, eight kilometers or9.7 kilometers. It'll just know
that they're out there for, youknow, six sixty five minutes.
Steve Boyd (14:25):
That's right. An hour is an hour. It's it's more
or less the same for an eliterunner as it is for a beginning
runner. Even a little morestressful local structures for
beginning runners. Like I say,the calves and feet take a real
beating if you haven't been onthem a lot particularly if
you're a little bit heavier.
So yeah, it's just getting themused to getting out the door
every day and there's a mentalaspect of it as well. Like
(14:46):
eventually they're gonna have torun a little bit faster for an
hour and it's just good to getthem in the habit of going out
the door and being on their feetfor that even if it's just
walking. Just getting in thehabit of getting out the door
every day for a decent chunk oftime.
Mark Kennedy (15:00):
Yeah. I'd say I've I've only run two marathons. The
first marathon I trained forwhen I was living in England. I
all my training was based ontime. My every run I went was
based on amount of time.
And then my second one, I I ran,all my training based on
distance. You know, I had acoach I worked with and I, you
know, obviously, run 12 k, run16 k, and, it's yeah. It's it's
(15:25):
interesting to see. I, you know,I had totally different mindsets
in sort of both sets of,training. I'm not sure which I
like better but I could see thebenefits to both.
Steve Boyd (15:34):
Well, know, when we're doing, know, a lot of the
reason I do that too is thatit's just simpler when I'm
writing a plan. I don't have toconvert the person's training
pace to a particular distanceevery day. I just know that it's
time and I'll know roughly howlong it takes them to run a 10
ks in an hour versus half anhour. So it's easier that way.
But I really do think if yougive somebody a set distance,
(15:57):
they're gonna start tyingthemselves over that distance
and they're gonna want it to bea little quicker than than the
week or the day before.
Mark Kennedy (16:02):
Yeah.
Steve Boyd (16:03):
So I just think whenever you can eliminate that,
it's it's good to do it.
Mark Kennedy (16:07):
Yeah, makes sense. What are some of the most common
mistakes you see newer runnersmake? Yeah.
Steve Boyd (16:14):
Well just that, I mean trying to go too fast too
soon. I mean go back to mymother when she first started, I
got her running and I told herto run between two telephone
poles and then walk onetelephone pole And she said, I
don't know what, I can't getbeyond like a mile and a half or
two miles or something. So Isaid, alright, I'm gonna run
with you. I'm gonna see whatyou're doing. And so she takes
off out the door at, you know,way under four minute k pace
(16:38):
just hammering and I said, whatare you doing?
And she said, well, that's whatI see you doing, you're going
pretty fast. And I said, well,it looks fast but it's not fast
for me. So we slowed her downand within two weeks she was
running seven miles straight. Soit's starting too fast, you
know, timing yourself all thetime, not really working.
Thinking that you get two weeksor three weeks in like that,
(17:00):
you're really getting somewhereand not realizing that you need
to take a much longer view.
You need to do things that aregonna keep you consistent for
weeks. The biggest mistake isyeah, it's just biting off more
than you can chew. Usually interms of speed, not in terms of
volume. People will rarely run,you know, start trying to run
two hours a day but they mightstart trying to run half an hour
a day as hard as they can andthey don't go anywhere when they
do that.
Mark Kennedy (17:20):
Yeah, and it seems to me it just makes it less
enjoyable too. I mean, you're anew runner, you go out there
like your mom did and starthammering it. Your lungs are
burning, your legs are killingyou and you're not going to want
to go out the next day becauseit just sucks.
Steve Boyd (17:32):
You're absolutely not and then if you throw a
bunch of, you know, the kind ofdelayed onset soreness you're
going get as a result of that,you're just going to think if
this is running and I don'treally like it and that's kind
of the point my mother wasgetting to and I know other
beginners. There's a little moregeneral knowledge now than there
was then but I still see peopletrying to university students
barreling out the door of ourPhys Ed Center on a spring day
(17:56):
or a warm day in the winter andyou just know where that's
going. They're gonna get shinsplints and sore caps and
they're gonna say, I can't run.I'm one of those people who
can't run. I meet people all thetime who say, I can't run, it
hurts my knees or I can't run,it hurts my shins or my feet.
And you say, Well, how fast doyou run? How far do try to run?
Well, I try to run quite hardand you know that means
basically all out. Again, justbad habit. They just said bad
(18:19):
habits early on and sometimesit's hard to break those
actually too.
People get a little successdoing that, think that that's
the way to go. So yeah. Yeah.
Mark Kennedy (18:28):
Okay. And then what about training strategies?
I mean, obviously, there's lotsof advanced strategies, but are
there any training strategies orstrategies or methodologies that
you would use with, your elitesthat would be suitable for a
beginner runner or a runnerthat's been running for a little
bit such as, I don't know,sprints or hills or Yeah.
(18:53):
Plyometrics and things likethat?
Steve Boyd (18:54):
The basic structure of every program I write is is
is roughly the same whether it'sfor the relatively new, you
know, relative newcomer,beginner or an elite. You know,
you need to learn how to run,you need to learn how to run
easy and you need to learn whateasy is. You need to learn what
tempo running is, what intervalpace running is, what rep pace
running is. These are roughlythe pace you can run for an hour
(19:19):
on your best day fully taperedwould be tempo pace. Interval
pace is roughly the pace you canrun all out for eleven to twelve
minutes.
Your rep pace is the pace youcan run all out for roughly four
minutes. So your easy pace isconversational, you can speak in
full sentences, no distress. Youneed to learn all these basic
paces and those are the buildingblocks for any program. So every
(19:41):
program I write has two types offaster running per week. It may
change throughout the yeardepending on the macro cycles.
So a long run, a tempo run and aharder interval session or rep
session and that doesn't changewhether it's a 45 year old
beginner or someone like DylanWeiss, it's all the same. That's
(20:02):
the beauty of the sport is thatbeginners, not rank beginners
but people with a little bit ofexperience can train like elites
can. And some of them can evendo the same kind of volume in
minutes as elites can as well. Ihave a 52 year old who runs just
over three hours for a marathon,didn't start till she was 42. I
mean she can run 150 ks a week.
Mark Kennedy (20:20):
Wow, that's amazing.
Steve Boyd (20:22):
Yeah, if they're built up carefully and if they
understand the basic elements ofa training scheme, they can go a
long way. I mean, this athleteunderstood how to run easy,
nailed their paces on workoutsall the time and just really
looked after herself and tenyears later is one of the best
50 year olds in North America.
Mark Kennedy (20:38):
Wow. And what about plyometrics? I mean,
that's a fairly demandingexercise. If people don't know
that is sort of, I guess,loading the muscles, like
bounding type exercises,jumping, and that type of thing.
Steve Boyd (20:53):
Yeah. Those are great. But, again, there's
there's like with every kind oftraining, there's a cost benefit
and it really depends on theathlete and the distance they're
training for us whether we wouldintegrate that stuff. Middle
distance runners, it's yeah.It's young middle distance
runners are still prettyresilient.
It's it's it's absolutelymandatory. Older distance
runners, I would never have themdo that. Again, there's a
(21:14):
benefit to every kind oftraining you do but in some
cases the costs outweighpotential risks outweigh the
benefits. So I would never havea runner over about 35 do any
kind of kind of plyos. 20 yearold middle distance runner going
to Queen's University,absolutely.
Mark Kennedy (21:28):
Yeah.
Steve Boyd (21:28):
Do that kind of stuff. Again, not in every case,
would depend on how how injuryprone they were. If they had a
history of foot and lower legproblems, we'd be very wary of
that stuff. I generally preferstatic lifts like the heavy
lifts, squats and upper bodystuff, Bulgarian lunge, all that
kind of stuff, just basic licksand tough calf raises. But if an
(21:51):
athlete is particularlyresilient, no injury history
really to speak of, we can dosome jumping up and down, sure.
Mark Kennedy (21:57):
Okay. Another question I'd like to ask is, is
there a place out there forgeneric running programs for
beginners? And if so, how can anew runner get the most
benefits? I know. I'm gonna I'llprobably getting an interesting,
answer because you're a coach,and I you you Yeah.
I think I know what your answeris gonna be but I know I'd like
(22:18):
to see what you think there.
Steve Boyd (22:20):
Yeah. Well, I think we're in an interesting juncture
now with running. There's somany runners, big races are
selling out months ahead oftime. One of the biggest
problems I have now is that wetry to plan for somebody and
they say, I can't get intocertain races because it's sold
out. And as a result of that,there's actually more
information available onlinethan there's ever been before.
There's just huge volumes ofinformation. We're past the
(22:43):
point where it's actuallyuseful. There's now so much that
people don't know how to sortthrough it and you can in two
seconds can Google up some kindof generic plan and follow it.
If you're particularly good atsifting through and processing
information about how toapproach running and knowing how
(23:03):
to run easy, just having goodinstincts that way. You can get
away, you can go quite a longway on say just a prefab running
room program that you candownload.
You can do pretty well on that.And I actually have had a few
athletes coming off those whowanted to take the running to
the next level but it managed todo reasonably well on those. It
just depends on what you want toget out of your running.
(23:23):
Generally speaking, I think mostpeople can't. There's too much
information and some ofcontradictory so they just get
overwhelmed and they're betterto go to somebody they trust.
That said, there are a lot ofpeople doing specialized
coaching as well who, you know,I wouldn't name names but they
really don't have the experienceand background to do it. They
maybe can talk and talk andthey're good self promoters and
(23:46):
all that but they really haven'tworked at a high enough level to
really be able to guide peoplein that way. Not because there's
just lots of money out there tobe made in doing it. So
generally speaking, I wouldrecommend that if someone can
find somebody they trust that'saffordable for them or even
locally, mean it's not justonline, there's a lot of good,
there's a lot of coachesoperating around locally now who
(24:08):
can help you out and there areother runners who also run and
find out who they're workingwith or maybe they're self
coached and they're doing a goodjob. You always prefer an actual
human being who you can talk toeven if it's another athlete
over something you just downloadoff the internet because then
you can't.
A of the coaching process iswhat you do when things break
down. I mean, plans rarely goaccording to spec. I mean, they
(24:32):
just do. And so what you'refollowing a plan, what do you do
when it falls apart? Howimprovise from there?
Mean, of what I do is that kindof thing. It's not going exactly
according to plan. Had to miss aday or this or that happened.
Now what do I do? People are ata loss when they're in that
situation.
That's where coaching is. Mean,a lot of people could write a
(24:53):
basic program and send someoneon their way, but you really
have to have some experience tobe able to help somebody
actually work through it.
Mark Kennedy (25:00):
Yeah. That really resonates with me. Again, I did
my first marathon, took ageneric Runner's World marathon
program. Of course, I felt good,and I, you know, was very
athletic growing up, so I rampedup the volume way too quickly.
Yeah.
Ended up with iliotibialiliotibial band syndrome,
plantar fasciitis, And then Ididn't have anyone there. You
(25:21):
know, obviously, I went to aphysio for some treatment, but I
didn't have anyone there tocourse correct me and to, you
know, help me get out of the thehole that I dug myself into.
Whereas the second time around,I had a coach and I know,
everyone's gonna get littleissues here and there and miss
some workouts and get sick ortraveling or whatever, but it
helped me immensely get throughthe program, you know, injury
(25:44):
free and and feeling good andhealthy.
Steve Boyd (25:47):
That's an extremely familiar story for me. I mean,
probably a third of the athletesI coach approach me saying, I'm
injury prone. I can't seem torun above x amount of kilometers
a week. And I say, Well, let'sjust see about that. Let's just
see how it works when you'reactually doing it properly and
you're getting feedback on aregular basis.
And I've had people that saidthey couldn't run at all and
(26:08):
they've now three, four years inwithout a single problem,
without a single missed day.They're just rolling along,
running. They didn't think theycould race more than 10 ks. Now
they've got two, three marathonsunder their belt and they're
running fast. Yeah, if you canhave somebody basically to help
you avoid really obviousmistakes and keep you from going
back to square one all the time,people could really go a long
(26:28):
way.
People's minds are blown by whatthey can do if they avoid those
obvious mistakes.
Mark Kennedy (26:33):
And you mentioned some strength training, earlier.
What are, well, first of all, isstrength training important for
a runner? And, you know, don'tneed to spend too much time on
that if you don't want to. Andthen, also just what are two or
three great exercises? Youmentioned a couple.
Any other exercises that yourecommend your runners do?
Steve Boyd (26:53):
Yeah. Strength is a huge thing for us. You know,
from university age runners allthe way up to master's athletes,
It's really important whenyou're starting out,
particularly for female athletesto develop pelvic stability and
power to avoid injuries in thelong term. But it's also
extremely important once you'reover 40, in particular over 45
(27:13):
to maintain muscle mass. Thereare a lot of injuries that
result from just loss of massand the big stabilizers in the
lower body.
You see people lose glutes andquads and all that and they lose
pelvic stability and their beltor knee problems, IT band
problems, anything all the waydown the chain. That's
absolutely crucial. Youngerrunners, I wish I'd known this
(27:34):
when I was younger, but how todo a proper core routine. So
your planking, your ball curls,your side leg raises, there's a
million things you can do thatnow you can go online and pick
four or five solid things and dothose for core. So developing
core strength for youngerathletes and then developing a
little bit of upper body power.
Again, fairly simple. Bodyweight exercises are great. So
(27:56):
pull ups, push ups are made.Push ups are an underrated
exercise. They're fantastic.
Pull ups, push ups, some rowing.Rowing is very good for runners
because it counters thatposture, the tendency for the
shoulders to roll in.
Mark Kennedy (28:09):
Open you up a little bit.
Steve Boyd (28:10):
Yeah, from being a fixed arm, hands in front
position all the time cause theshoulders to curl. So that's
another reason to avoidcrunching kind of activities
that shorten the muscles in thefront of the body. So a lot of
pulling, rowing. But you canalso do stuff for the shoulders,
you know, dumbbell press. I do alot more dumbbell press now than
bench.
I don't really do bench anymoreat all because I find it
(28:31):
tightens my chest and neck andstuff. So I do dumbbell presses.
Dips, parallel bar dips arefantastic. Just a simple kind of
curl overhead press, one armpresses with the dumbbells are
fantastic.
Mark Kennedy (28:46):
And then you mentioned squats and Bulgarian
lunges as well?
Steve Boyd (28:49):
Yep, a squat like a goblet squat, people know what
that is, You hold the dumbbellin front of you for balance and
you squat down. For all therunners who can't handle a lot
of resistance and again, youdon't actually need a lot of
resistance to start gettinggains in those areas. A middle
distance runner may throw a backsquat with a fair amount of
weight on or a front squat. Mostrunners don't need to do that
(29:11):
much if they're not runningmiddle distance, know, gobble
squat is good or put a ball,Swiss ball against the wall,
hold a couple of dumbbells anddo a two legged or one legged
squat that way, that'sfantastic. To open up and do
like a single leg with theBulgarian squat is really good.
Just make sure you're notoverloading that. Most people
can do that with no weight atall and get a decent benefit
from it. If you're fairlystrong, you've worked up to it,
(29:33):
can grab a couple of dumbbells,you know, 10 to 20 pound
dumbbells and throw a good loadon there as well. So that stuff,
you know, I've done some kind oflifting since I was, I was just
thinking about the other day,since I was 13 years old. I did
when I was age 12 and 13 anddidn't do it again until I was
20 but I'd pretty much done somekind of strength training for
over thirty years.
And it wasn't always the beststuff but I think I benefited
(29:57):
from doing anything at all. Iwish I knew then what I know now
about the imports of all thelower body stuff, the squatting
and then calf raises and allthat. Calf raises and other good
things. I think I could haveeliminated a lot of the problems
I had in my late 30s whichresulted from really just kind
of atrophy, you know, catabolismof the big stabilizers in the
(30:17):
glute and low back and whichcaused me to have back problems
late in my thirties which I thenwas able to fix with strength
training in my forties. Soagain, wish I had known all that
and I like to make sure thatyoung athletes know how
important that is, they want tohave long careers.
Mark Kennedy (30:30):
Okay, that's great and that's a good actually
transition to sort of the lastquestion before I know we're
running short on time here but,considerations for aging runners
and you mentioned obviouslymuscle mass being one. Is there
any other considerations for theaging runner?
Steve Boyd (30:47):
That's really the big one. Also be aware that your
recovery rates are a littleslower. You you're like, if you
look at your skin, your skin'sgetting a little, you know, a
little bit stretched and stuffso your collagen is basically
wearing out which is whathappens when you age while your
connective tissues are also madeof collagen, they get a little
stiffer and they break down alittle more quickly and take a
(31:09):
little longer to repair. Sorecognize that your feet,
plantar fascia, your Achilles,IT band, anything that has that
kind of connective tissue isvulnerable as you get older. So
those things take a littlelonger to repair and you are
tearing those down every timeyou run faster.
But again, keeping the musclemass up really helps unload
(31:30):
those structures a little bit Ifyou're bearing weight in a
balanced way where it's supposedto be born, you can go a long
way towards preserving thosestructures. But just realize
you're older, it takes a littlelonger to recover and you're
also going to get less bang foryour buck when you do train. You
get less of a robust responsebecause all those growth factors
are not there in the samequantities that they were when
(31:53):
you were in your 20s and 30s. Soyou're gonna get less bang for
the buck, you have to workharder to get what you get,
particularly in the weight room,you gotta work pretty hard. But
it's not like you can win,you're not going to win, you're
getting older.
You can lose a little moreslowly so that's the name of the
game. Older runners now arereally, I say this to people all
the time, are really reinventingthe sport in the sense that
(32:14):
they're showing what's possibleat advanced stages. I'm blown
away all the time by what peoplemy age and older can accomplish
and even people who haven't doneit all their lives and people
who have done it all their livesare just incredible. Ed Whitlock
or Bernard Legat down in The USwho's 40, still running world
class times. I think mygeneration of athletes is
(32:34):
showing that you can doBasically we're gonna rewrite
the age grading tables in favorof sort of showing that athletes
can do a lot more advanced agesthan anyone ever thought they
could.
That's gonna come from greatsports medicine, it's gonna come
from great physio and just basicknowledge about how to preserve
the body.
Mark Kennedy (32:54):
Yeah, no, it's great. I hope to follow in your
footsteps and just keep healthyand keep running and keep
improving as long as I can andthen be okay with the point
where I'm not actually improvinganymore, but just running and
staying healthy and doing what Ican.
Steve Boyd (33:11):
Absolutely. And I tell people all the time it's
just as much fun. I mean, thereare moments when you think, ah,
shit. I, you know, wish I couldI wish I could run as fast as I
did before but it's the samechallenge all the time and
there's the same camaraderie,there's the same thrill of
competing and all that andthere's the same general health
benefits. I tell people, you'rea fairly young guy, you're going
go through difficult times inyour lives, you're you're having
(33:32):
kids or job stress, try not togive up your athletics, not to
give up your running.
You will thank yourself doublefold in the few years down the
road when you're still doing it.Now we've had friends that gave
it up because they were havingkids and they felt like we were
being selfish for not giving itup and now they envy us and wish
they'd stuck it out just forthose two or three years when
(33:52):
they were under a lot of stress.It's a good stress reliever even
if sometimes it feels like it'sadding to your stress. In the
long run you'll thank yourself.
Mark Kennedy (33:59):
Well I'm deep into that now. I've got almost a
three year old and a two and ahalf month old so and running's
one of the things that's keepingme sane.
Steve Boyd (34:09):
Yeah, that's the hardest time of your life to do
it. You get through this youknow in decent shape and still
in a routine and it's all gravyafter that. Yeah, just give
yourself another two years andyou'll be good to go.
Mark Kennedy (34:20):
Yeah. Before we end here, mentioned recovery for
aging athletes. Is it do youhave any rules of thumb or any
anything you follow with regardsto, like, how do you know if
you're ready for your your nextworkout? Maybe you're feeling a
bit tired or sluggish. Is thereis there any signs that, you
know, maybe you should skip yourworkouts?
Or
Steve Boyd (34:41):
Yeah. My I mean, my recovery rate's still pretty
good so I I can still get twodecent sessions in a week but
there are times where they don'tgo as well and I find it it's
even for me, it's a movingtarget. There are some days when
I can get away with a couple ofdays recovery in between which
is what I've always done andthen there are other days I just
can't. So I'll bail on a workoutafter a couple of reps if it's
(35:02):
not going well and I'll waitanother couple of days to go
back at it. But generally I'mpretty good, my recovery rate is
good and as you get older, it'sa moving target.
In some days it works, some daystwo days is good, some days it's
not enough. But then alsothere's a lot of variability
between athletes. I have aMasters athlete now, Chris
Mercy, who just ran two twentythree marathon on his fortieth
(35:24):
birthday. I mean, that guy canrun 200 ks a week and run a
marathon and recover two orthree weeks later and he's 40.
Mark Kennedy (35:31):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Steve Boyd (35:32):
You really have to get to know yourself and you
know the athletes you're workingwith. Generally, I mean, he
probably had crazy recoveryrates in his twenties So they
probably slowed. He was justalways amazing at recovering. So
you just kind of know what yourpersonal rates are like and know
that that's gonna get a littleworse as you get older. I don't
know what the rate, again,varies from person to person.
(35:54):
But expect it, just sort ofanticipate it because it's going
to happen. And then be prepared,don't be so hung up on your plan
and that's again where a coachcomes in, if someone can give
you permission to postpone aworkout for a couple of days to
make sure you get the quality.
Mark Kennedy (36:07):
I think it's important for people to know
too. I mean, if you miss aworkout or two, you're not gonna
lose any fitness. No. Yeah. Ifanything, if you're you're not
feeling it or you're maybeyou're starting to feel a little
sick, you're you're not gonnalose any fitness and you
actually perhaps benefit fromtaking that workout off and
resting and then come back andwhen you're feeling good and
you'll be able to get morebenefits from your next workout.
Steve Boyd (36:28):
Absolutely. Like, what I call your gross
capacities take a long time togain and a long time to lose.
Now if you're getting sick andhurt all the time then there's
obviously something wrong withyour plan it will erode your
fitness but you're right, youcan't be hung up on any one
session. Also think about it, ifyour goal is to run as much as
possible, do you really want torun the risk of being off for a
(36:49):
week or two because you had toget that one workout in. And if
you're getting sick and stuff,your injury risk goes way up
when you're sick.
When you're inflamed and you'retight, you're going to get, you
know, you're a lot more likelyto get injured if you got a
virus. So you're better just toit's like the old stitch in time
saves nine, it's always beentrue. Get to know your body when
(37:09):
you can work through somethingand when you can't. It's not an
exact science but you get betterand better at it and if you have
a good coach you'll be able tomaximize your odds as far as
that stuff goes too. Butgenerally speaking, it never
pays to be too hung up on theplan.
Like the plan is not ordained byGod or anything, it's just a
plan. It's not perfect so if youhave to deviate from it, it's
(37:29):
not the end of the world.
Mark Kennedy (37:30):
Yeah. No, that's great advice. Well, Steve, I
don't wanna take, any more ofyour time. I know you've got a
trip out to BC, tomorrow youmentioned. So thanks very much
for your time and expertise.
It was great talking to you andI'll be sure to put all the
links to to your blog and yourcoaching services and some links
(37:51):
to the exercises that youmentioned, which will help a lot
of runners for sure.
Steve Boyd (37:56):
Excellent. Well, glad to be a help, and good luck
with your your future endeavors.
Mark Kennedy (38:00):
Great. Thanks very much, Steve. Okay. Bye.
Steve Boyd (38:03):
Thanks for listening to the Healthinomics podcast at
www.healthinomics.com.
Hey. What's up, everybody? Welcome to episode
number 20 of the HealthInomicspodcast. I'm your host, Mark
Kennedy, coming at you fromToronto, Ontario, Canada, and
thanks as always for listening.This is lesson number four of my
get started running series.
Be sure to sign up if you wannajoin my five part email course
(00:22):
to help you get started anddiscover the enjoyment of
running. Head over toHealthianomics.com/startrunning
if you wanna sign up to that.Today, I chat with Steve Boyd.
I'll give you a bit of a brief,intro, on Steve and who he is.
Steve is an elite Canadiandistance runner, a three time
national champion on the trackand road, an active masters
(00:45):
competitor who now coaches thephysical Kingston Running Group
and Queen's University CrossCountry Track Club.
He's got some impressive PBs, at800 meters, one fifty two, 15
hundred meters, three fortyseven, 10 k, twenty eight forty
one, a half marathon time of onezero three thirty six, and a
(01:07):
marathon time of two seventeentwenty eight. Those are some
some ridiculously fast times. Intoday's podcast, I chat with
Steve about what a program fornew runners looks like, how
Steve screens the runners heworks with before setting up
their running program, whetheralternating walking and running
is a good place to start for newrunners, what matters more time
(01:30):
or distance especially forbeginners, What's the most
common mistake that runnersmake? Advanced training
strategies that new runners canalso benefit from. I talked to
Steve about whether or notgeneric running programs taken
from the Internet are good forbeginners.
Why beginners should includestrength training in their
programs, which strengthtraining exercises are best for
(01:53):
runners, and specificconsiderations for aging
runners.
Mark Kennedy (01:56):
I think you're gonna get a lot out of this
episode. For all the
Speaker 1 (01:59):
links I mentioned in this conversation and a full
transcription for all youreaders, head over to
healthenomics.com/twenty, and Ihope you enjoy the episode.
Thanks for listening.
Steve Boyd (02:13):
Welcome to the Healthinomics Podcast. Boosting
your health and fitness IQ oneepisode at a time. And now your
host Mark Kennedy.
Mark Kennedy (02:24):
Welcome to the show Steve, it's an honor to
talk to you.
Steve Boyd (02:27):
Thanks. Glad to be here.
Mark Kennedy (02:28):
That's great. So for those listeners who aren't
familiar with you, why don't wejust start, maybe you can just
give us a little background on,who you are, sort of, I mean,
where where you grew up, how yougot into running, and a quick
overview of your running careerand and what you're up to right
now with regards to running.
Steve Boyd (02:45):
Sure. If you want an overview of my career, it might
take a while because
Mark Kennedy (02:49):
It's been a long one.
Steve Boyd (02:51):
Six years long. But, yeah, like a lot of Canadians
athletes, came out of a hockeybackground and wanted to do that
until I was probably 14 or 15and like a lot of people
realized I was a little toosmall but I got a lot of
conditioning from the othersports I'd done, basketball and
hockey. And so I just byaccident ran a primary school
(03:12):
race in 800 meters and won thatand thought, well, that was too
bad and just kind of kept goingfrom there because I was
winning. So this is in Kingston,Ontario back in the late '70s
and then '80s, I went to FrohnakHigh School here in Kingston.
Started doing well, pretty wellin grade nine and ten, running
middle distance eight andfifteen.
Finished high school, decided tostay here at Queen's University
(03:35):
because the team at that timewas defending CI's champ. Were
in some ways the Guelph of theday although their dynasty
wasn't I think they won threeout of five years or three out
of four. So it was a goodchoice. That's
Mark Kennedy (03:46):
pretty good though.
Steve Boyd (03:47):
Yeah, we were a solid team so it really for me
at the time didn't seem like acompromise with the NCAA which
had some offers there as well.So I stayed in Canada and ran in
the CIS and was all Canadian Ithink all four years.
Mark Kennedy (04:00):
Were you running cross country or what other
distances were you running?
Steve Boyd (04:03):
I was running primarily cross country. I I did
a little bit of indoors but notuntil third or fourth year
because in those days, thetrials for the national cross
country, the world cross countrychampionships were in February
so I usually focused on thatduring the winter. I only ran
indoors I think in my third andfourth year.
Mark Kennedy (04:19):
Okay.
Steve Boyd (04:20):
So I went on from there to I was running
professionally while going tograd school at New York
University in Toronto. I ran theroads, made several national
teams, got better and betterinto my mid to late 30s, ran a
marathon in my late 30s, ran twoseventeen. I had a lot of wins
and up until age 38 more or lessretired and then took it up
(04:43):
again and I didn't stop runningbut I stopped competing for a
couple of years, a year and ahalf and went into masters and
then sort of redoubled my focusthere and broke some records and
won some national titles and soon and that's kind of brings me
to where we are now at sort offiftyfifty one, cranking it out
and thus like still relativelyhealthy so.
Mark Kennedy (05:04):
Congratulations and are you focusing, obviously
you're still running but you'realso coaching, correct?
Steve Boyd (05:10):
Yeah, along the way I started coaching. I started
coaching my teammates back inToronto back in the 90s then had
a few private clients justbefore I moved back to Kingston
to start teaching at Queen'sUniversity. Also I got a
doctorate during those years aswell and had two kids and we
raised those kids too.
Mark Kennedy (05:28):
You're busy man.
Steve Boyd (05:30):
Yeah, at one point sort of late 90s it was
ridiculously busy. I wasworking, I was running
professionally. So I wasteaching, finishing my doctorate
running and trying to raise kidsand make the Olympic team in
that year. So I got pretty busybut I was able to do some
coaching at that time. InFebruary I came back and I
started a small group calledPhysical Running which is what I
(05:52):
do now with four or five womenin the neighborhood who just
wanted to get in shape.
I had a lot of success withthem, built the group over the
years and then launched theonline aspect in I think it was
02/2006, '2 thousand and '7 andthen 2010 started coaching at
Queen's University here inKingston, Alabama. I've been
doing that for the last, I guessI'm in my fifth year now.
Mark Kennedy (06:14):
Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah. I've been
following your blog for a while.Alex Hutchinson, who, who you
know obviously Yep. Pointed meto your blog, a while back.
So that's sort of how I I got toknow you a bit better. I I I've
heard about you before in yourrunning, but I didn't know you
had, you know, your site andyour online or your coaching and
(06:36):
your and your blog there. Soanyways, to anyone listening, I
would recommend checking it outand I'll put a link to your site
in the in the show notes forsure.
Steve Boyd (06:44):
Yeah. Thanks. I I never know who reads that thing.
I just, once in a while, throwsomething up there. I'm not as
good about updating it latelybecause I'm just been so busy,
but and and my posts tend to bepretty long too.
So
Mark Kennedy (06:54):
Yeah. You know what? I I've read all your
stuff, and a lot of that, youknow, your posts are timeless
pieces so it doesn't reallymatter that you haven't updated
it that often really.
Steve Boyd (07:03):
Well you know that's kind of the idea is that I
create content that's not sortof dated in any way, know, I
mean it's more coaching advicerather than kind of what I had
for breakfast that day.
Mark Kennedy (07:12):
Yeah. No. It's great. So today, as I mentioned
to you before we, started thecall here, I want to talk about,
or focus on mostly new runners.I'm doing a series here, on the
blog and podcast, for newrunners.
So when if someone comes to you,someone who's maybe maybe they
(07:32):
did a little bit of sportgrowing up, but they're they're
new to running and maybe theywanna lose some pounds, where do
you start those people and whatwhat sort of does their program
look like? I know it it's gonnadiffer depending on their
background, but sort of, Iguess, take me through your
process and what are sort of thequestions you would want
answered for that person.
Steve Boyd (07:52):
Yeah. I actually have an in an intake, inventory
that I that I I give to all newrunners and I I rarely get
people that are real beginners,rank beginners, the kind of
people that go to running roomand kind of learn to run. Most
of the people I take on havedone a little bit of running,
maybe not as much now as they'vedone in the past but they're
usually fairly committed runnerswho want to get to the next
(08:14):
level. And what I ask them isbasic stuff. What's your age?
What's your height and weight?What are your PBs from 100
meters to the marathon? What'syour injury history, what are
your short term goals, what areyour long term goals and then I
ask for a picture or video ofthem so I can have a look at a
little sense of how they moveand then we go from there.
Mark Kennedy (08:37):
So that's great and when you get that picture
video, what are sort of thewhat's going through your head
there? What are you looking for?Are you looking at obviously a
video of them running or and orwalking? Are you looking at for
their form or what sort ofthings are you looking for?
Steve Boyd (08:52):
Usually, I, you know, I look at sort of, you
know, what kind of shape they'rein. If they're if they obviously
have weights, some people thinkthat they're they're they have a
decent weight to to trainheavily and they're actually a
little heavy so I'm carefulabout loading their volume.
Yeah. Also just you can sort ofsense by how somebody moves, how
much running they've done, inparticular their cadence. We can
get a video and if you see thattheir cadence is up 180 and
(09:12):
above that you know they've donea fair amount of running or they
naturally have a high cadencewhich is a great thing to see.
When someone's turning over 150,one and 60 steps, you know that
they haven't developed theneural pathways and they're
probably going to be putting alot of stress on their body when
they run. They're taking a lotof weight within stride. So
these are the little things tohelp orient you so that you
don't get the person doing toomuch early on. And I have a rule
(09:36):
that or a goal I have for allnew athletes and it's that they
don't get injured in the firstyear at all. So sometimes I have
to be quite conservative withthem and all that data on their
injury history and theirathletics history really helps
them kind of avoid injuries inthe early going.
Mark Kennedy (09:50):
Mhmm. Yeah. No. That's fantastic. And for these
people, you know, once you'vegone through the the intake
process, where do you startthem?
What sort of I mean, I saythey're say they're looking
their goal is to run, anywherefrom five to 10 k. Do you start
them on a on a running slashwalking program, or is it just
(10:12):
running, or what does that looklike?
Steve Boyd (10:14):
Well, like I say, most of my athletes have done a
little bit of running, so we wewe take a a short term goal.
Short term would be in the nextthree months, medium term goal
would be within a year and thenlong term is what they hope to
achieve in the sport. So westart right away in the short
term goal. The person's goal isto run a five ks then I mean the
lowest volume I'd have somebodyon and when I first started my
(10:36):
group in the early 2000s, allfour of my athletes were doing
this but generally about fivedays a week, forty five minutes
for their easy runs and theyhave two workouts in there, two
long sessions, a tempo run andan interval session, intervals
between one and three minutes,one and five minutes. Tempo is
between twenty and forty minutesand they get the days off after
(10:56):
those workouts and that's abread and butter kind of program
and you sort of see how far theycan go on that and some people
can go up to a year on thatstill improving and we don't
really add volume until theystop improving.
So that would be, that'stypically the lowest volume.
Somebody's not ready to do atleast that much, I generally
tell them to go away and run ontheir own for a while and try to
work their way up to that muchso that we can so we get going a
(11:18):
little more quickly. It's notworth my time in theirs if they
really aren't at the point wherethey can run even that much. So
again, I don't really deal withkind of rank beginners, I then
tend to deal with people whowanna get to the next level.
Mark Kennedy (11:29):
Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. For for people though
that say weren't at that level,like is walking, alternating
walking and running a good placeto start?
Steve Boyd (11:39):
Yeah, walking, yeah absolutely it's great. Know what
running room does with the startto run with the ten and one is
fantastic. You even startsomeone at one and one if they
had weight to lose and they hadthe usual run of shin and lower
leg problems. It does take awhile to build up the strength
in the calves and feet to beable to run particularly if
you're carrying a little extraweight. So just spending time on
(12:00):
your feet is great.
Walking two or three hours at ago is fantastic or an hour, an
hour and a half, whatever youhave, is great and it's a great
way to prepare to run. And ifyou just start to feel good,
throw a little bit of jogging inthere and you're away. I mean my
mother started running like thatyears and years ago when I got
her going and she ended uprunning two marathons and like a
(12:21):
forty one minute ten ks when shewas in her 40s and she's just
walking. She was a smoker aswell, was pretty remarkable.
Mark Kennedy (12:26):
That's amazing. And then another question I I
get once in a while, and I loveto hear your take on. Initially,
what's what's more important? Isit time on the feet or distance
run for you know, we're talking,again, for beginners. Maybe
maybe they're a bit below sortof some of the athletes you're
working with.
(12:47):
But Yeah. Yeah. What
Steve Boyd (12:49):
I always I always go with time. I don't want people
to feel time pressure to cover acertain distance in a certain
time. I mean, actually all myathletes all the way up to elite
level run on time. I knowroughly what the top people are
gonna run per kilometer per, youknow, on an hour run or an hour
and a half run, but I still givethem time duration rather than
(13:10):
distance. With beginners,definitely.
I mean, you think in terms ofminutes, absolutely.
Mark Kennedy (13:15):
And why is that? What's the rationale behind
Steve Boyd (13:18):
Well, again, I don't like people to know to think
about how they're going becausethen they feel time pressure and
they think that they often thinkknow, it's intuitive to think
that if I do it a little faster,I'll get I'll get a better
workout out of it. And andthat's the enemy of of
consistency really is thatpeople feel like that running a
little faster is better. It'sbetter right away to think of
them and have them think interms of just be out here for an
(13:40):
hour or forty five minutes orwhatever hitting the ground
without any pressure to gofaster. And that way they
develop good habits around theirtraining and they realize that
easy is easy and that if youwant to get the most out your
workouts, need to come in withthe volume in your legs but not
with undue stress from runningtoo fast on your easy days. So
(14:00):
it's all about developing goodwork habits in the early stages.
Mark Kennedy (14:03):
That makes a lot of sense and I think for, you
know, for a new runner as well,their body will be, in a little
bit of shock, and their body isonly gonna know, like, how long
they were out there. It's notgonna know whether they went,
you know, eight kilometers or9.7 kilometers. It'll just know
that they're out there for, youknow, six sixty five minutes.
Steve Boyd (14:25):
That's right. An hour is an hour. It's it's more
or less the same for an eliterunner as it is for a beginning
runner. Even a little morestressful local structures for
beginning runners. Like I say,the calves and feet take a real
beating if you haven't been onthem a lot particularly if
you're a little bit heavier.
So yeah, it's just getting themused to getting out the door
every day and there's a mentalaspect of it as well. Like
(14:46):
eventually they're gonna have torun a little bit faster for an
hour and it's just good to getthem in the habit of going out
the door and being on their feetfor that even if it's just
walking. Just getting in thehabit of getting out the door
every day for a decent chunk oftime.
Mark Kennedy (15:00):
Yeah. I'd say I've I've only run two marathons. The
first marathon I trained forwhen I was living in England. I
all my training was based ontime. My every run I went was
based on amount of time.
And then my second one, I I ran,all my training based on
distance. You know, I had acoach I worked with and I, you
know, obviously, run 12 k, run16 k, and, it's yeah. It's it's
(15:25):
interesting to see. I, you know,I had totally different mindsets
in sort of both sets of,training. I'm not sure which I
like better but I could see thebenefits to both.
Steve Boyd (15:34):
Well, know, when we're doing, know, a lot of the
reason I do that too is thatit's just simpler when I'm
writing a plan. I don't have toconvert the person's training
pace to a particular distanceevery day. I just know that it's
time and I'll know roughly howlong it takes them to run a 10
ks in an hour versus half anhour. So it's easier that way.
But I really do think if yougive somebody a set distance,
(15:57):
they're gonna start tyingthemselves over that distance
and they're gonna want it to bea little quicker than than the
week or the day before.
Mark Kennedy (16:02):
Yeah.
Steve Boyd (16:03):
So I just think whenever you can eliminate that,
it's it's good to do it.
Mark Kennedy (16:07):
Yeah, makes sense. What are some of the most common
mistakes you see newer runnersmake? Yeah.
Steve Boyd (16:14):
Well just that, I mean trying to go too fast too
soon. I mean go back to mymother when she first started, I
got her running and I told herto run between two telephone
poles and then walk onetelephone pole And she said, I
don't know what, I can't getbeyond like a mile and a half or
two miles or something. So Isaid, alright, I'm gonna run
with you. I'm gonna see whatyou're doing. And so she takes
off out the door at, you know,way under four minute k pace
(16:38):
just hammering and I said, whatare you doing?
And she said, well, that's whatI see you doing, you're going
pretty fast. And I said, well,it looks fast but it's not fast
for me. So we slowed her downand within two weeks she was
running seven miles straight. Soit's starting too fast, you
know, timing yourself all thetime, not really working.
Thinking that you get two weeksor three weeks in like that,
(17:00):
you're really getting somewhereand not realizing that you need
to take a much longer view.
You need to do things that aregonna keep you consistent for
weeks. The biggest mistake isyeah, it's just biting off more
than you can chew. Usually interms of speed, not in terms of
volume. People will rarely run,you know, start trying to run
two hours a day but they mightstart trying to run half an hour
a day as hard as they can andthey don't go anywhere when they
do that.
Mark Kennedy (17:20):
Yeah, and it seems to me it just makes it less
enjoyable too. I mean, you're anew runner, you go out there
like your mom did and starthammering it. Your lungs are
burning, your legs are killingyou and you're not going to want
to go out the next day becauseit just sucks.
Steve Boyd (17:32):
You're absolutely not and then if you throw a
bunch of, you know, the kind ofdelayed onset soreness you're
going get as a result of that,you're just going to think if
this is running and I don'treally like it and that's kind
of the point my mother wasgetting to and I know other
beginners. There's a little moregeneral knowledge now than there
was then but I still see peopletrying to university students
barreling out the door of ourPhys Ed Center on a spring day
(17:56):
or a warm day in the winter andyou just know where that's
going. They're gonna get shinsplints and sore caps and
they're gonna say, I can't run.I'm one of those people who
can't run. I meet people all thetime who say, I can't run, it
hurts my knees or I can't run,it hurts my shins or my feet.
And you say, Well, how fast doyou run? How far do try to run?
Well, I try to run quite hardand you know that means
basically all out. Again, justbad habit. They just said bad
(18:19):
habits early on and sometimesit's hard to break those
actually too.
People get a little successdoing that, think that that's
the way to go. So yeah. Yeah.
Mark Kennedy (18:28):
Okay. And then what about training strategies?
I mean, obviously, there's lotsof advanced strategies, but are
there any training strategies orstrategies or methodologies that
you would use with, your elitesthat would be suitable for a
beginner runner or a runnerthat's been running for a little
bit such as, I don't know,sprints or hills or Yeah.
(18:53):
Plyometrics and things likethat?
Steve Boyd (18:54):
The basic structure of every program I write is is
is roughly the same whether it'sfor the relatively new, you
know, relative newcomer,beginner or an elite. You know,
you need to learn how to run,you need to learn how to run
easy and you need to learn whateasy is. You need to learn what
tempo running is, what intervalpace running is, what rep pace
running is. These are roughlythe pace you can run for an hour
(19:19):
on your best day fully taperedwould be tempo pace. Interval
pace is roughly the pace you canrun all out for eleven to twelve
minutes.
Your rep pace is the pace youcan run all out for roughly four
minutes. So your easy pace isconversational, you can speak in
full sentences, no distress. Youneed to learn all these basic
paces and those are the buildingblocks for any program. So every
(19:41):
program I write has two types offaster running per week. It may
change throughout the yeardepending on the macro cycles.
So a long run, a tempo run and aharder interval session or rep
session and that doesn't changewhether it's a 45 year old
beginner or someone like DylanWeiss, it's all the same. That's
(20:02):
the beauty of the sport is thatbeginners, not rank beginners
but people with a little bit ofexperience can train like elites
can. And some of them can evendo the same kind of volume in
minutes as elites can as well. Ihave a 52 year old who runs just
over three hours for a marathon,didn't start till she was 42. I
mean she can run 150 ks a week.
Mark Kennedy (20:20):
Wow, that's amazing.
Steve Boyd (20:22):
Yeah, if they're built up carefully and if they
understand the basic elements ofa training scheme, they can go a
long way. I mean, this athleteunderstood how to run easy,
nailed their paces on workoutsall the time and just really
looked after herself and tenyears later is one of the best
50 year olds in North America.
Mark Kennedy (20:38):
Wow. And what about plyometrics? I mean,
that's a fairly demandingexercise. If people don't know
that is sort of, I guess,loading the muscles, like
bounding type exercises,jumping, and that type of thing.
Steve Boyd (20:53):
Yeah. Those are great. But, again, there's
there's like with every kind oftraining, there's a cost benefit
and it really depends on theathlete and the distance they're
training for us whether we wouldintegrate that stuff. Middle
distance runners, it's yeah.It's young middle distance
runners are still prettyresilient.
It's it's it's absolutelymandatory. Older distance
runners, I would never have themdo that. Again, there's a
(21:14):
benefit to every kind oftraining you do but in some
cases the costs outweighpotential risks outweigh the
benefits. So I would never havea runner over about 35 do any
kind of kind of plyos. 20 yearold middle distance runner going
to Queen's University,absolutely.
Mark Kennedy (21:28):
Yeah.
Steve Boyd (21:28):
Do that kind of stuff. Again, not in every case,
would depend on how how injuryprone they were. If they had a
history of foot and lower legproblems, we'd be very wary of
that stuff. I generally preferstatic lifts like the heavy
lifts, squats and upper bodystuff, Bulgarian lunge, all that
kind of stuff, just basic licksand tough calf raises. But if an
(21:51):
athlete is particularlyresilient, no injury history
really to speak of, we can dosome jumping up and down, sure.
Mark Kennedy (21:57):
Okay. Another question I'd like to ask is, is
there a place out there forgeneric running programs for
beginners? And if so, how can anew runner get the most
benefits? I know. I'm gonna I'llprobably getting an interesting,
answer because you're a coach,and I you you Yeah.
I think I know what your answeris gonna be but I know I'd like
(22:18):
to see what you think there.
Steve Boyd (22:20):
Yeah. Well, I think we're in an interesting juncture
now with running. There's somany runners, big races are
selling out months ahead oftime. One of the biggest
problems I have now is that wetry to plan for somebody and
they say, I can't get intocertain races because it's sold
out. And as a result of that,there's actually more
information available onlinethan there's ever been before.
There's just huge volumes ofinformation. We're past the
(22:43):
point where it's actuallyuseful. There's now so much that
people don't know how to sortthrough it and you can in two
seconds can Google up some kindof generic plan and follow it.
If you're particularly good atsifting through and processing
information about how toapproach running and knowing how
(23:03):
to run easy, just having goodinstincts that way. You can get
away, you can go quite a longway on say just a prefab running
room program that you candownload.
You can do pretty well on that.And I actually have had a few
athletes coming off those whowanted to take the running to
the next level but it managed todo reasonably well on those. It
just depends on what you want toget out of your running.
(23:23):
Generally speaking, I think mostpeople can't. There's too much
information and some ofcontradictory so they just get
overwhelmed and they're betterto go to somebody they trust.
That said, there are a lot ofpeople doing specialized
coaching as well who, you know,I wouldn't name names but they
really don't have the experienceand background to do it. They
maybe can talk and talk andthey're good self promoters and
(23:46):
all that but they really haven'tworked at a high enough level to
really be able to guide peoplein that way. Not because there's
just lots of money out there tobe made in doing it. So
generally speaking, I wouldrecommend that if someone can
find somebody they trust that'saffordable for them or even
locally, mean it's not justonline, there's a lot of good,
there's a lot of coachesoperating around locally now who
(24:08):
can help you out and there areother runners who also run and
find out who they're workingwith or maybe they're self
coached and they're doing a goodjob. You always prefer an actual
human being who you can talk toeven if it's another athlete
over something you just downloadoff the internet because then
you can't.
A of the coaching process iswhat you do when things break
down. I mean, plans rarely goaccording to spec. I mean, they
(24:32):
just do. And so what you'refollowing a plan, what do you do
when it falls apart? Howimprovise from there?
Mean, of what I do is that kindof thing. It's not going exactly
according to plan. Had to miss aday or this or that happened.
Now what do I do? People are ata loss when they're in that
situation.
That's where coaching is. Mean,a lot of people could write a
(24:53):
basic program and send someoneon their way, but you really
have to have some experience tobe able to help somebody
actually work through it.
Mark Kennedy (25:00):
Yeah. That really resonates with me. Again, I did
my first marathon, took ageneric Runner's World marathon
program. Of course, I felt good,and I, you know, was very
athletic growing up, so I rampedup the volume way too quickly.
Yeah.
Ended up with iliotibialiliotibial band syndrome,
plantar fasciitis, And then Ididn't have anyone there. You
(25:21):
know, obviously, I went to aphysio for some treatment, but I
didn't have anyone there tocourse correct me and to, you
know, help me get out of the thehole that I dug myself into.
Whereas the second time around,I had a coach and I know,
everyone's gonna get littleissues here and there and miss
some workouts and get sick ortraveling or whatever, but it
helped me immensely get throughthe program, you know, injury
(25:44):
free and and feeling good andhealthy.
Steve Boyd (25:47):
That's an extremely familiar story for me. I mean,
probably a third of the athletesI coach approach me saying, I'm
injury prone. I can't seem torun above x amount of kilometers
a week. And I say, Well, let'sjust see about that. Let's just
see how it works when you'reactually doing it properly and
you're getting feedback on aregular basis.
And I've had people that saidthey couldn't run at all and
(26:08):
they've now three, four years inwithout a single problem,
without a single missed day.They're just rolling along,
running. They didn't think theycould race more than 10 ks. Now
they've got two, three marathonsunder their belt and they're
running fast. Yeah, if you canhave somebody basically to help
you avoid really obviousmistakes and keep you from going
back to square one all the time,people could really go a long
(26:28):
way.
People's minds are blown by whatthey can do if they avoid those
obvious mistakes.
Mark Kennedy (26:33):
And you mentioned some strength training, earlier.
What are, well, first of all, isstrength training important for
a runner? And, you know, don'tneed to spend too much time on
that if you don't want to. Andthen, also just what are two or
three great exercises? Youmentioned a couple.
Any other exercises that yourecommend your runners do?
Steve Boyd (26:53):
Yeah. Strength is a huge thing for us. You know,
from university age runners allthe way up to master's athletes,
It's really important whenyou're starting out,
particularly for female athletesto develop pelvic stability and
power to avoid injuries in thelong term. But it's also
extremely important once you'reover 40, in particular over 45
(27:13):
to maintain muscle mass. Thereare a lot of injuries that
result from just loss of massand the big stabilizers in the
lower body.
You see people lose glutes andquads and all that and they lose
pelvic stability and their beltor knee problems, IT band
problems, anything all the waydown the chain. That's
absolutely crucial. Youngerrunners, I wish I'd known this
(27:34):
when I was younger, but how todo a proper core routine. So
your planking, your ball curls,your side leg raises, there's a
million things you can do thatnow you can go online and pick
four or five solid things and dothose for core. So developing
core strength for youngerathletes and then developing a
little bit of upper body power.
Again, fairly simple. Bodyweight exercises are great. So
(27:56):
pull ups, push ups are made.Push ups are an underrated
exercise. They're fantastic.
Pull ups, push ups, some rowing.Rowing is very good for runners
because it counters thatposture, the tendency for the
shoulders to roll in.
Mark Kennedy (28:09):
Open you up a little bit.
Steve Boyd (28:10):
Yeah, from being a fixed arm, hands in front
position all the time cause theshoulders to curl. So that's
another reason to avoidcrunching kind of activities
that shorten the muscles in thefront of the body. So a lot of
pulling, rowing. But you canalso do stuff for the shoulders,
you know, dumbbell press. I do alot more dumbbell press now than
bench.
I don't really do bench anymoreat all because I find it
(28:31):
tightens my chest and neck andstuff. So I do dumbbell presses.
Dips, parallel bar dips arefantastic. Just a simple kind of
curl overhead press, one armpresses with the dumbbells are
fantastic.
Mark Kennedy (28:46):
And then you mentioned squats and Bulgarian
lunges as well?
Steve Boyd (28:49):
Yep, a squat like a goblet squat, people know what
that is, You hold the dumbbellin front of you for balance and
you squat down. For all therunners who can't handle a lot
of resistance and again, youdon't actually need a lot of
resistance to start gettinggains in those areas. A middle
distance runner may throw a backsquat with a fair amount of
weight on or a front squat. Mostrunners don't need to do that
(29:11):
much if they're not runningmiddle distance, know, gobble
squat is good or put a ball,Swiss ball against the wall,
hold a couple of dumbbells anddo a two legged or one legged
squat that way, that'sfantastic. To open up and do
like a single leg with theBulgarian squat is really good.
Just make sure you're notoverloading that. Most people
can do that with no weight atall and get a decent benefit
from it. If you're fairlystrong, you've worked up to it,
(29:33):
can grab a couple of dumbbells,you know, 10 to 20 pound
dumbbells and throw a good loadon there as well. So that stuff,
you know, I've done some kind oflifting since I was, I was just
thinking about the other day,since I was 13 years old. I did
when I was age 12 and 13 anddidn't do it again until I was
20 but I'd pretty much done somekind of strength training for
over thirty years.
And it wasn't always the beststuff but I think I benefited
(29:57):
from doing anything at all. Iwish I knew then what I know now
about the imports of all thelower body stuff, the squatting
and then calf raises and allthat. Calf raises and other good
things. I think I could haveeliminated a lot of the problems
I had in my late 30s whichresulted from really just kind
of atrophy, you know, catabolismof the big stabilizers in the
(30:17):
glute and low back and whichcaused me to have back problems
late in my thirties which I thenwas able to fix with strength
training in my forties. Soagain, wish I had known all that
and I like to make sure thatyoung athletes know how
important that is, they want tohave long careers.
Mark Kennedy (30:30):
Okay, that's great and that's a good actually
transition to sort of the lastquestion before I know we're
running short on time here but,considerations for aging runners
and you mentioned obviouslymuscle mass being one. Is there
any other considerations for theaging runner?
Steve Boyd (30:47):
That's really the big one. Also be aware that your
recovery rates are a littleslower. You you're like, if you
look at your skin, your skin'sgetting a little, you know, a
little bit stretched and stuffso your collagen is basically
wearing out which is whathappens when you age while your
connective tissues are also madeof collagen, they get a little
stiffer and they break down alittle more quickly and take a
(31:09):
little longer to repair. Sorecognize that your feet,
plantar fascia, your Achilles,IT band, anything that has that
kind of connective tissue isvulnerable as you get older. So
those things take a littlelonger to repair and you are
tearing those down every timeyou run faster.
But again, keeping the musclemass up really helps unload
(31:30):
those structures a little bit Ifyou're bearing weight in a
balanced way where it's supposedto be born, you can go a long
way towards preserving thosestructures. But just realize
you're older, it takes a littlelonger to recover and you're
also going to get less bang foryour buck when you do train. You
get less of a robust responsebecause all those growth factors
are not there in the samequantities that they were when
(31:53):
you were in your 20s and 30s. Soyou're gonna get less bang for
the buck, you have to workharder to get what you get,
particularly in the weight room,you gotta work pretty hard. But
it's not like you can win,you're not going to win, you're
getting older.
You can lose a little moreslowly so that's the name of the
game. Older runners now arereally, I say this to people all
the time, are really reinventingthe sport in the sense that
(32:14):
they're showing what's possibleat advanced stages. I'm blown
away all the time by what peoplemy age and older can accomplish
and even people who haven't doneit all their lives and people
who have done it all their livesare just incredible. Ed Whitlock
or Bernard Legat down in The USwho's 40, still running world
class times. I think mygeneration of athletes is
(32:34):
showing that you can doBasically we're gonna rewrite
the age grading tables in favorof sort of showing that athletes
can do a lot more advanced agesthan anyone ever thought they
could.
That's gonna come from greatsports medicine, it's gonna come
from great physio and just basicknowledge about how to preserve
the body.
Mark Kennedy (32:54):
Yeah, no, it's great. I hope to follow in your
footsteps and just keep healthyand keep running and keep
improving as long as I can andthen be okay with the point
where I'm not actually improvinganymore, but just running and
staying healthy and doing what Ican.
Steve Boyd (33:11):
Absolutely. And I tell people all the time it's
just as much fun. I mean, thereare moments when you think, ah,
shit. I, you know, wish I couldI wish I could run as fast as I
did before but it's the samechallenge all the time and
there's the same camaraderie,there's the same thrill of
competing and all that andthere's the same general health
benefits. I tell people, you'rea fairly young guy, you're going
go through difficult times inyour lives, you're you're having
(33:32):
kids or job stress, try not togive up your athletics, not to
give up your running.
You will thank yourself doublefold in the few years down the
road when you're still doing it.Now we've had friends that gave
it up because they were havingkids and they felt like we were
being selfish for not giving itup and now they envy us and wish
they'd stuck it out just forthose two or three years when
(33:52):
they were under a lot of stress.It's a good stress reliever even
if sometimes it feels like it'sadding to your stress. In the
long run you'll thank yourself.
Mark Kennedy (33:59):
Well I'm deep into that now. I've got almost a
three year old and a two and ahalf month old so and running's
one of the things that's keepingme sane.
Steve Boyd (34:09):
Yeah, that's the hardest time of your life to do
it. You get through this youknow in decent shape and still
in a routine and it's all gravyafter that. Yeah, just give
yourself another two years andyou'll be good to go.
Mark Kennedy (34:20):
Yeah. Before we end here, mentioned recovery for
aging athletes. Is it do youhave any rules of thumb or any
anything you follow with regardsto, like, how do you know if
you're ready for your your nextworkout? Maybe you're feeling a
bit tired or sluggish. Is thereis there any signs that, you
know, maybe you should skip yourworkouts?
Or
Steve Boyd (34:41):
Yeah. My I mean, my recovery rate's still pretty
good so I I can still get twodecent sessions in a week but
there are times where they don'tgo as well and I find it it's
even for me, it's a movingtarget. There are some days when
I can get away with a couple ofdays recovery in between which
is what I've always done andthen there are other days I just
can't. So I'll bail on a workoutafter a couple of reps if it's
(35:02):
not going well and I'll waitanother couple of days to go
back at it. But generally I'mpretty good, my recovery rate is
good and as you get older, it'sa moving target.
In some days it works, some daystwo days is good, some days it's
not enough. But then alsothere's a lot of variability
between athletes. I have aMasters athlete now, Chris
Mercy, who just ran two twentythree marathon on his fortieth
(35:24):
birthday. I mean, that guy canrun 200 ks a week and run a
marathon and recover two orthree weeks later and he's 40.
Mark Kennedy (35:31):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Steve Boyd (35:32):
You really have to get to know yourself and you
know the athletes you're workingwith. Generally, I mean, he
probably had crazy recoveryrates in his twenties So they
probably slowed. He was justalways amazing at recovering. So
you just kind of know what yourpersonal rates are like and know
that that's gonna get a littleworse as you get older. I don't
know what the rate, again,varies from person to person.
(35:54):
But expect it, just sort ofanticipate it because it's going
to happen. And then be prepared,don't be so hung up on your plan
and that's again where a coachcomes in, if someone can give
you permission to postpone aworkout for a couple of days to
make sure you get the quality.
Mark Kennedy (36:07):
I think it's important for people to know
too. I mean, if you miss aworkout or two, you're not gonna
lose any fitness. No. Yeah. Ifanything, if you're you're not
feeling it or you're maybeyou're starting to feel a little
sick, you're you're not gonnalose any fitness and you
actually perhaps benefit fromtaking that workout off and
resting and then come back andwhen you're feeling good and
you'll be able to get morebenefits from your next workout.
Steve Boyd (36:28):
Absolutely. Like, what I call your gross
capacities take a long time togain and a long time to lose.
Now if you're getting sick andhurt all the time then there's
obviously something wrong withyour plan it will erode your
fitness but you're right, youcan't be hung up on any one
session. Also think about it, ifyour goal is to run as much as
possible, do you really want torun the risk of being off for a
(36:49):
week or two because you had toget that one workout in. And if
you're getting sick and stuff,your injury risk goes way up
when you're sick.
When you're inflamed and you'retight, you're going to get, you
know, you're a lot more likelyto get injured if you got a
virus. So you're better just toit's like the old stitch in time
saves nine, it's always beentrue. Get to know your body when
(37:09):
you can work through somethingand when you can't. It's not an
exact science but you get betterand better at it and if you have
a good coach you'll be able tomaximize your odds as far as
that stuff goes too. Butgenerally speaking, it never
pays to be too hung up on theplan.
Like the plan is not ordained byGod or anything, it's just a
plan. It's not perfect so if youhave to deviate from it, it's
(37:29):
not the end of the world.
Mark Kennedy (37:30):
Yeah. No, that's great advice. Well, Steve, I
don't wanna take, any more ofyour time. I know you've got a
trip out to BC, tomorrow youmentioned. So thanks very much
for your time and expertise.
It was great talking to you andI'll be sure to put all the
links to to your blog and yourcoaching services and some links
(37:51):
to the exercises that youmentioned, which will help a lot
of runners for sure.
Steve Boyd (37:56):
Excellent. Well, glad to be a help, and good luck
with your your future endeavors.
Mark Kennedy (38:00):
Great. Thanks very much, Steve. Okay. Bye.
Steve Boyd (38:03):
Thanks for listening to the Healthinomics podcast at
www.healthinomics.com.
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