December 27, 2024 • 29 mins
Jason Medley is the Founder and CEO of The Collective Genius which is a real estate mastermind group that brings together 200 of the nation’s top real estate investors on a quarterly basis to brainstorm about housing market changes and to share their most intimate secrets, strategies, resources and systems. He has over 21 years’ experience in real estate where he has partnered in over 2600 multifamily doors and funded more than 1500 loans.
Through this sharing, the members of the "The Collective Genius” thrive regardless of housing market changes or economic fluctuations and live life freely on their own terms, by their own rules.
In this episode:
- Craig welcomes Jason Medley, Founder and CEO of The Collective Genius.
- Exploring his entrepreneurial roots and formative experiences.
- Jason’s transition into the corporate world and key milestones in his early career.
- 2008 Financial Crisis: The challenges Jason faced and the lessons learned during this pivotal moment.
- Founding The Collective Genius: How Jason built a premier real estate mastermind community.
- Insights and strategies from Jason’s journey to success in real estate.
The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.
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Narrator (00:01):
Welcome to The Norris Group real estate podcast, a
show committed to bringing youinsights from thought leaders
shaping the real estateindustry. In each episode, we'll
dive into conversations withindustry experts and local
insiders, all aimed at helpingyou thrive in an ever-changing
real estate market. continuingthe legacy that Bruce Norris
(00:24):
created, sharing valuableknowledge, and empowering you on
your real estate journey.
Whether you're a seasoned pro ora newcomer, this is your go-to
source for insider tips, markettrends and success strategies.
Here's your host, Craig Evans.
Craig Evans (00:45):
Hey everybody. We are super excited to be on
today. We have got a great guestwith us today. It is a recent
friend of mine that has become agood acquaintance and and
hopefully long time friend.
Jason Medley, is the CEO,although he says the Chief
Connector of Collective Genius,he is the Founder and Chief
(01:06):
Connector of that so, Jason isthe founder of Collective
Genius, which is a real estateMastermind group that brings
together 200 of the nation's topreal estate investors on a
quarterly basis to brainstormabout housing, market changes,
and to share their most intimatesecrets, strategies, and
resources and systems. Jason hasover 21 years experience in real
(01:30):
estate, where he has partneredin over 2600 multi family doors
and funded more than 1500 loansthrough this sharing, the
members of the CollectiveGeniusthrive, regardless of
housing market changes oreconomic fluctuations, and live
life freely on their own termsand by their own rules. Jason
(01:52):
man, it is great to have you on,I know you know, it's been a
little bit since we've seen eachother, but I'm grateful for you
jumping on just before the endof the year here and listen, I
want to say, also, I reallyappreciate you guys and
collective genius sponsoring. ISurvived Real Estate, you know,
again this year, that was a bigevent. Had it had a really good
(02:15):
turnout for,you know, everythingthat went on there, and
Make-A-Wish of OCIE. So, supergreat. And honestly, I
appreciate the invite to yourevent up in Tampa this year,
just what, four weeks ago, maybea month or so ago, great event.
It was really cool to see howyou guys do things and what you
(02:38):
do and how you put it on. So,Jason, listen, I want to jump
in. I want to talk aboutCollective Genius. But you know,
for those that don't know whoyou are or know about collective
genius, if it's okay, I'd reallylove to dive in and kind of get
your story and your background,if that's okay.
Jason Medley (02:56):
Yeah, Brother, let's do it. I'm ready.
Hopefully we have some fun andget some some folks, some
worthwhile information.
Craig Evans (03:03):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Jason Medley (03:05):
We're speaking of worthwhile information. We are
that might be some datedinformation. We are not at 200
members or 200 investors. Weare, hopefully end of January
this year, we will approach andcross the 700 mark, so.
Craig Evans (03:21):
Wow.
Jason Medley (03:22):
I made the dig into where he got that. We might
have some dated info out there.
Craig Evans (03:27):
I was going to say that, that's what we were given
on the bio of that so I,because, I'll be honest, I
thought you were up over, Ithought you were up over 600
already I thought so, but.
Jason Medley (03:38):
700 I you know what I'm, we may have seen your
bio that needs updates.
Craig Evans (03:42):
Well, like I say, you know, at the end of the day,
my goal was getting you on here,and let's get information
directly to people. So listen,you're originally from Kentucky,
if I remember, right, we satdown at dinner and got to share
each other's kind of lifestories. If I remember, you're
from Kentucky, tell us where inKentucky?
Jason Medley (04:04):
Originally from Louisville, Kentucky for about
the first 24-ish years of mylife, and then in Tampa, Florida
for about the next 30.
Craig Evans (04:17):
So, growing up in Kentucky, I mean, what was it
like for you living there?
Jason Medley (04:21):
Well, Kentucky is a great town, man. It's, you
know, everybody has theirconnotation of it. But little is
a pretty good sized city. I livein Tampa now, it's probably,
probably pretty relative to thesame size. But of course, there
was some teasing going on when Icame down here. Everybody want
to know if I drove down acovered wagon and they were
(04:41):
surprised, you know, surprisedthat I had all my tees and all
that kind of stuff. But, youknow, no, it was, it was good
growing up, you know, I was onlychild, you know, a mom raised me
from the time I was probablyabout a year old. I had great
family, aunts, uncles, had awonderful, wonderful mother, you
(05:04):
know, who really kind of knewthe right balance between love
and discipline, and on any givenday, they could be one the same.
But you know, born and raised orwent to Catholic grade school,
Catholic High School, went intoa small college after that. And,
(05:24):
you know, growing up there, Ithink I kind of started my
entrepreneurial journey. Or Ishould say, my mother required I
start my entrepreneurial journeyat about 12 years old. And I
remember her telling me, up. I'mgoing to give you three things.
One of them you were born with,will get you a lawnmower, a weed
(05:45):
eater, and you got a pair a setof knuckles. And so get to
knocking right and but sureenough, that was, that did that
turned out to be kind of my, myentry into me, an entrepreneur
at 12 years old, and I was, youknow, before you know it, I was
cutting 20 lawns a week andknocking down 400 bucks in cash,
(06:08):
which, at the time was great.
And then by time I was 16, I hadsome money to get a car. So, but
yeah, that's, that's a littlebit about, about me and growing
up.
Craig Evans (06:19):
So, you know you're, I'll be honest, Jason,
we talked through a lot ofstuff. I did not know that was
your first gig. I don't know.
Jason Medley (06:29):
Yeah.
Craig Evans (06:29):
If you and I have talked about that, that's
literally, I was 12. I startedcutting grass. I actually hired
four of my friends within thefirst three weeks, and we're
working for me, so it's runningat me.
Jason Medley (06:45):
I was still pushing. I was still pushing the
lawnmowers.
Craig Evans (06:49):
Well, listen, I learned quickly. I was going to
bring my guys some Fritos andsome Gatorade to keep them
going, right? I had to bribethem to keep going.
Jason Medley (06:58):
Yeah. I think one of the things we talked about is
I'm a better COO than a CEO, andI think that that just shine the
light on it, right? I waspushing a lot more, and you
already had your buddies workfor you.
Craig Evans (07:09):
Well, listen, so Alright, so, you're 12, you're
cutting grass.
Jason Medley (07:13):
Yeah.
Craig Evans (07:13):
And getting calluses on the knuckles of
knocking on doors, right?
Jason Medley (07:17):
Yeah.
Craig Evans (07:18):
And, but as you're doing that, what at that point
did you have an idea? I mean,were you already looking ahead
saying, Hey, this is what I wantto do, right? Was it the the
typical, I want to be a firemanor an astronaut or were you
already looking at thingssaying, hey, I want to do this.
Jason Medley (07:37):
Um, I don't know, at 12 years old, I was probably
like, Damn, it's hot outside.
They'd be playing their ass. ButI did have my eye on the prize,
which is, you know, make my momwas single mom, and she was a,
you know, assistant. And so, youknow, she didn't, she make much
money. So I knew if I wanted tohave car that, that I was going
to figure that out and so well,I'd say I did have my eye on the
(08:03):
prize. But as far as knowing Iwanted to be an entrepreneur, I
think that probably came alittle bit later in my life,
where, when you combine thatexperience with when my mom got
remarried, I don't know. I guessthat was probably 14 or 15 years
old at the time, and sheremarried an entrepreneur, and
(08:25):
just time with him and seeingwhat he had accomplished, and,
you know, kind of him pouringinto me, and my mom did too
well. It's Tim what you knowthat, you're capable of doing,
you know, wherever you put yourmind, to and helping me
understand that I could pay myown way, you know, and if I was
willing to pay the price, yep,but then I can, kind of create
(08:48):
my own, create and craft my ownfuture. And so I see that that
tune of overall, overarchingthought about entrepreneurship
probably came 14, 15 years old,and, you know, that's something
that has for sure. I mean, Istarted out after, you know,
(09:10):
when I didn't got to go rightinto true entrepreneurship. When
I graduated college, I went towork for, you know, went to work
for corporate for five or sixyears. Had a nice base salary
and a company car and all thatjazz and but before long, I
realized where I know where mypaychecks coming from every day,
I'm not near as good as I gottaget up and hunt.
Craig Evans (09:34):
And hustle. Yeah.
Jason Medley (09:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Craig Evans (09:36):
So, so, you know, there's so many people that are
especially coming into theinvesting world, right, that,
they're hustling a nine to five,you know, they're trying to
grind through that, trying tomake that determination of, you
know, how do I get out of thisand get into doing my own and
being, you know, be able to livefreely in what I do. And I've
(10:00):
heard so many people through theyears as I've talked to them
about this, that just, it's likethey don't know how to get out
of what they're currently in.
Because I think, Oh, well, Iwould have to make more. I'd
have to do this, you know. Sowith that, I mean, what was your
first job? You know, you'resaying you're coming out of
college. I mean, what'd youstudy in college? What was the
background of that? And what wasyour first job that you had?
Jason Medley (10:22):
Yeah, my first degree in college was in
partying, and then my second wasin economics. So I have two two
degrees. Yep,kidding aside, Iwas like a straight A student
until, you know, till myfreshman year of college, I
graduated. I graduate. I went inmy senior year on academic
probation, had a 1.8 GPA, and ifI didn't get it above 2.0 that
(10:47):
last semester, I was I was goingto be killing back so, but I
just really never worried aboutgrades. That was the influence
that my stepfather had on me.
You know, he just kind of taughtme that, you know, if you got
the grit, the grinding, in thein the vision that none of that
stuff's eventually going tomatter. And so I just kind of
disconnected from it a littlebit. And my mom was super
strict, and so when I got awayfrom home, I lit it on fire, to
(11:10):
say the least. But I was, I wasstill very driven. I just didn't
care about school, so I wasstill driven. And then, you
know, I started going to jobfairs in my senior year and
sending resumes. And one thingmy mom had always told me was
follow up, follow up, follow up,follow up, follow up, follow up,
(11:31):
right fortunate in the followup. Then I said, Follow up. And
so my first job was with adecent sized regional company
called PBNS chemical, and theywere the they didn't manufacture
chemicals, but they soldchemicals. And, you know,
anything and everything haschemicals in it. From, you know,
(11:52):
I just jumped out of the shower,whether it's watching a poo or,
you know, the paint that's onthis, you know, bookshelf behind
me, or you name it, the gel inyour hair, and then stuff in
your toothpaste, the everything,the chlorine in your pool,
everything with chemicals in it.
So that was my first position inoutside sales, and when I had my
(12:17):
eyes set on at the time, andwhat I thought was what I really
wanted to do, which was work fora pharmaceutical company. And
that's about the time when thattranscript, that 1.8 up until
last semester senior year, cameback. So I started applying for
(12:37):
pharmaceutical companies, andeventually I met a recruiter at
Johnson and Johnson J&J hashundreds of companies, and they
have recruiters that recruitacross a multitude of their
platforms. And so I met arecruiter. I'll never forget
her. She's just like I couldtell you're a talented kid.
You're going to run some hiccupswith that transcripts, but if
(13:02):
you stay diligent, we're goingto get you a position. And so
that's what happened. Staydiligent. Probably interview
with several differentcompanies, with Johnson Johnson,
and ended up going to work fortheir division, Ortho-McNeill.
And, you know, had a good gigthere, but I just ended up,
really the thing I thought Iwanted is actually something I
(13:24):
ended up despising. You know, Iwas wet behind 20 something
years old. We behind the earstrying to tell doctors what kind
of medicine they shouldsubscribe and you know what I
really felt like was anoverpaid, overdressed sample
dropper offer these positions,and so I just, that's at the
(13:46):
point where I realized, like,man, if I got a nice static
check coming into the car, I'mgood. I'm good, you know. But
that's really kind of when Ihave big pivotal shift in my
life. I got very, very, verysick, like almost kicking the
bucket sick in my later 20s, andknowing that, so I was on short
(14:12):
term disability, that's how sickI was. And so knowing that, you
know, I was on short termdisability and still had a
verifiable paycheck. I wasrefinancing my home and doing
taking a little cash out to tryand figure out what was next for
me if I was going to stay, if Iwas go. But, you know, it was
very apparent they wanted me tocome back and sprint and run,
(14:33):
and I just wasn't healthy enoughto do that. So during the middle
of that refinance, this younglad pulls up to the house in a
black on black on black, 911Carrera turbo. And he might have
been a year or two younger me,or at that time, I was probably
28 right? And I was saying,Where did you how'd you get
that? And he said, well, doingmortgages. And I was like, You
(14:56):
got a handy chair over there atthe shop? You know? You. And
sooner, soon enough, man, hesaid, I don't really know, but
let me check with with the guythat I worked for. And he
checked with him, and, you know,they call short term disability,
short term for reason, couldonly last so long, and I was
coming at the end of that, and Iwas just not myself, and
(15:17):
couldn't imagine going frombeing lost for months and being
sick a very long time, back intoa cubicle. And so he told me
they had a position in that'swhen I left corporate America
and went into a straight 100%commission job. And went from
steady paycheck, steady Eddie toget up and hunt every single
(15:40):
day, and I've figured out atthat point that that's what
brought out the best in me.
Craig Evans (15:45):
Right?
Jason Medley (15:46):
Yeah.
Craig Evans (15:47):
So when did you make that switch?
Jason Medley (15:50):
That was in my late 20s. It was my late 20s.
Yeah, that was in my late 20s,and I had a bunch of surgery. It
was just trying to get it, youknow, trying to get back up on
my two feet. I was wiped out.
Physically. I weighed, I think,115 pounds. And I walk around
normally at, you know, about180.
Craig Evans (16:10):
Right.
Jason Medley (16:11):
So I was just, you know, I was just trying to get
some momentum.
Craig Evans (16:15):
So that would have been, because if I remember you
and I are, like, right at thewithin months of the same age of
each other. So that would havebeen, what, mid 2000s or so?
Jason Medley (16:26):
No, no, that was.
Craig Evans (16:30):
Oh, no. wait a minute, that would have been
late or probably mid 90sactually, late 90s.
Jason Medley (16:35):
Late 90s. Yeah, I was in a hospital on 911 that's
all I know. It was the late 90s.
Craig Evans (16:42):
Okay.
Jason Medley (16:43):
Yeah, so that was late 90s.
Craig Evans (16:46):
So now, how long were you in mortgage before you,
you know, really startedswitching. Because what I'm
trying to get to is now you're,you've come into mortgaging, so
you're starting to dance intoreal estate. You know, where
were you at when '08 hit andthat whole crash of everything,
what were you doing at thatpoint?
Jason Medley (17:03):
So, I started my retail mortgage business in the
early 2000 early 2000s thought Iwas the business baby. Thought I
was the business. The market wasbooming. There was tons of new
construction in Florida combinedwith low interest rates. So
there was new constructionloans, plus all the refinances.
Like, man, I was cool. I waslike, I know exactly what's
(17:27):
going on. I personally have gotit all figured out. And then,
BAAM! right? Just you said themagic four numbers, right. Where
were you at? 2008 everybodyknows where they were at, right,
um, and so I was doing my thingthat thought I had all figured
out. Then, you know, the marketsto go up the fastest come down
(17:49):
the fastest, when, when thingslike that happen. And so I was
running my own mortgagebusiness. And, man, everything,
honestly, everything, at thatpoint came off the rails. Um, I
lost my my business. I was, Iwent to, lost my marriage. Lost,
you know, I had made a ton ofmoney during that time, but I
(18:10):
was, I was blowing, I wasblowing it. You know, young and
young and no financialdiscipline, making money as a
skill set, keeping it is adiscipline. Somebody write that.
That's the lesson I learned fromthat. And so in 2008 I had to do
a reset, and went through a veryhorrible, you know, going from
(18:30):
on top of the world, you know,running a decent sized retail
mortgage shop, and to losingthat, my marriage, short selling
like, you know, I had hit thereset button and went through a
pretty low time during thattime, like, at the bottom of the
(18:51):
question and who I was and whatwas made of, and what my future
looked like, and so, yeah,pretty rough, rough spot, my
life for sure.
Craig Evans (19:05):
You know, I think that's part of why I wanted to
go into it. Because, you know,we haven't gotten told, but I've
had a similar story. I mean, youknow, we had and I think it's
interesting when you talk topeople that have success, to me,
those that are often the mostsuccessful. Know how to come out
of a downfall.
Jason Medley (19:25):
Yeah.
Craig Evans (19:26):
They know how to recover. They know how to pivot.
They know how to work throughsomething that slapped him in
the face and they weren't readyfor but they figured out how to,
you know us all country boysknow that saying of you know,
they pulled themselves up bytheir bootstraps and kept going,
right? I mean, they figured out,how do you clean yourself up.
Jason Medley (19:46):
Yeah. Yeah.
Craig Evans (19:47):
Those things aren't easy all the time, you know. So,
Jason, what do you think is thebiggest mistake? Because social
media all the highs we alwaystalk about, right? Those are the
easy things, right? What do youthink is the biggest mistake
that you've ever made in realestate, or maybe the biggest
(20:08):
obstacle you've ever had toovercome? However you want to
play it, but I want to be ableto see that as much as success
we've had, it's not always, wedon't always get it right.
Jason Medley (20:19):
Yeah, um, I'd say the big and we can go back two
or three minutes and referencethe biggest mistake that I think
I made was prior to 2000 may inthat, you know, it was kind of
my first foray into, into, youknow, running my whole company.
And I didn't understand, nor didI appreciate that sentiment and
(20:41):
momentum were running thatmarket right, like I thought it
was because I actually knew whatI was doing. Yes, Humor me.
Humor me from a moment there,but no, legitimately, I was
like, I got this. I know whatI'm doing right. And the reality
of it is, is I was just in theway. I was just in the way.
(21:04):
Well, we're coming out of thatright now, right like we at the
bottom, you know, 2008, 2009,2010 and we've had a 12 13, year
run of, you know, in the last 24months, there's been a bunch of
young bucks had to go homebecause they thought they knew
what they were doing. And thenthe market shifted, and they
were like, Oh, all right, Idon't really know what I'm
(21:26):
doing. I don't really know howto run a business. I just have
to be shooting fish in a barrel.
So you know, that's probably thebiggest mistake that I made. And
also not understanding what Ireferenced earlier is that
making money is a skill set,keeping it is a discipline. They
are not going in the same and Ididn't realize at that point, at
that point in my life, I wasjust kind of burning it as I
(21:49):
went, whereas now I am veryrigid financially, with the
disciplines required to keepmoney, not just make money. And
so definitely biggest mistake isthinking I was responsible for
what was going on. That's,that's my biggest mistake.
Craig Evans (22:13):
So, so coming out of that, you know, and you look
to where now you're, what do wesay you're? We're 51 or 52 years
old?
Jason Medley (22:23):
Something like that?
Craig Evans (22:24):
Yes, yeah. You know.
Jason Medley (22:26):
Something like that.
Craig Evans (22:28):
30th anniversary of 20.
Jason Medley (22:31):
Plus two, yeah?
Craig Evans (22:35):
Well, I mean, you know, it's us guys sitting here.
I can't, I can't ask a lady thatwe can't talk about that when a
lady's on the show.
Jason Medley (22:40):
Right.
Craig Evans (22:41):
So, so, so, but you're coming out of that you
think you're God reincarnated inthe finance world, in the
mortgage world, and and 2008slaps us into reality. So you,
(23:01):
started Collective Genius.
You've recreated all of it. You,you've created all this. You
know, if you look at JasonMedley, now, what do you say is
your specialty in real estate?
Like I say, I want to move intoCollective Genius. But what you
what do you say is yourspecialty in real estate itself?
Jason Medley (23:21):
Yeah, if I had to pin that down, I would say I
underwrite people first anddeals second.
Craig Evans (23:34):
Okay, tell me. Tell me about that. I because I think
that's one of those, especiallywith a lot of young investors,
they don't get to hear stufflike this.
Jason Medley (23:44):
Well, yeah, and I'm trying to think of how to
frame it for a young investor,because you said, What is my
superpower, how I wouldrereference it now.
Craig Evans (23:54):
Yeah, your specialty, yeah.
Jason Medley (23:56):
Yeah, especially, yeah. But where I'm at in my
career, I know so many people,and I get to watch them from a
either a short distance or fromafar, as regards to who they
are, how they operate theirbusiness, and so forth. And so I
look at who they are as a humanbeing, right, who they are as a
man, as a woman, as a mother, asa father, as a spouse, as a
(24:18):
leader. And that's equally asimportant, because here's the
thing, in real estate, there'sstuff goes wrong. I was going to
use another choice word besidesstuff, but you guys get the
point right, and you have toknow that when things go wrong,
the person you're doing businesswith is going to handle it the
right way. Because you don'tnever know what cockroaches
cockroach until they got theirback in corner.
Craig Evans (24:41):
That's right.
Jason Medley (24:41):
You don't know.
Boy, they can scurry around.
Craig Evans (24:46):
That's it.
Jason Medley (24:47):
Yeah. And so I think that that is, you know,
for somebody new, starting out,you know. And again, I'm on the
lending and equity side, so Idon't really under, you know, I
don't really do the physicalside of the physical asset side
of the business, but I think youjust really need to know who
(25:07):
you're doing business with atthe best level you can, which is
when you're just breaking intoan industry is selling, what
tough versus, you know, the oldguys, like like us, who know a
lot of people, but that's thething I think. I would probably
check on if you're lendingmoney, or if you're going to
(25:28):
flip a house and hire somecontractors. I would, you know,
get some references. And, youknow, don't just ask, like, Hey,
did you make money with thisperson, or did they finish the
job one time? Like, you know,what did you how did you feel
about them as human being? Isis, to me, every bit as
important of how I could formfrom business perspective,
(25:50):
because that's great you couldbe in 13 years momentum on the
market, which we're coming offof, and then things start to go
wrong. I didn't know who you areas a human being.
Craig Evans (25:59):
That's right.
Jason Medley (26:00):
At that point. And so that would probably be what I
would consider my specialty, ifyou will.
Craig Evans (26:07):
But, and I think that's especially for young
Jason Medley (26:08):
An example of that is, you know, let's say you're
investors, you know, I thinkit's such a crucial process for
them to understand is becausethey, I mean, listen, we're
looking at rehabbing a house,and you're just getting started,
always looking at the asset, youknow, is there equity? Where's
that asset stand? How does thatroll? What are the numbers look
(26:28):
like? You got to know yournumbers, and we talked a lot
about that at your last at yourlast event, but I think that
people, just as you're talkingabout Jason, that they forget
and you pencil it out, andyou're like, Well, I think I can
and undervalue, if you will, therelationship with people that
matter. You know, like you say,knowing that contractor, that
(26:48):
when something goes wrong,because it's construction and it
will, are they still going to bethere, right? That linear that
promises you go get the deal andwill lend. Can they close? Can
they get to the closing table?
make, like, 50 grand on thisthing. And then you've got two
(27:15):
contractors, one that's going tocharge you 80, and one that's
going to charge you, you know,70. And you think, well, I could
use that 10 grand, right? Butif, if that one that's going to
charge you a little bit more hasa proven track record and is a
pillar of, you know, anindividual that you feel like,
(27:37):
man is really get a good feelingabout this person. You know, you
probably be better off. And youknow, taking the extra 10k hit
in, because it's always morethan the money, right? Like, if
you get a rehab, it goes wrong.
It's more than the 10 extragrand, right? Like, it's the
headache in the contracted listand the like, you just want to
pull your hair out, and it tooktwice as long, and it went over
(27:59):
budget. And, you know, it's morethan just the number that it
ends up costing. It's allsuffering. Try again in between,
and so, you know, but those arereally hard decisions to make
when you're trying to createmomentum. It you don't have it.
Craig Evans (28:19):
Yep.
Jason Medley (28:20):
You know you will make more bad decisions and
sacrifice your your gutsometimes, and you know it's I'm
not saying it's easy.
Craig Evans (28:33):
Alright everybody that's going to do it for part
one with Jason Medley, make sureand tune in next week.
Narrator (28:38):
For more information on hard money loans, trust deed
investing, and upcoming eventswith The Norris group. Check out
thenorrisgroup.com. For moreinformation on passive investing
through the DBL Capital RealEstate Investment Fund, please
visit dblapital.com.
Joey Romero (28:58):
The Norris group originates and services loans in
California and Florida underCalifornia DRE license 01219911.
Florida mortgage lender license1577 and NMLS license 1623669.
For more information on hardmoney lending go to
thenorrisgroup.com and click thehard money tab.
Welcome to The Norris Group real estate podcast, a
show committed to bringing youinsights from thought leaders
shaping the real estateindustry. In each episode, we'll
dive into conversations withindustry experts and local
insiders, all aimed at helpingyou thrive in an ever-changing
real estate market. continuingthe legacy that Bruce Norris
(00:24):
created, sharing valuableknowledge, and empowering you on
your real estate journey.
Whether you're a seasoned pro ora newcomer, this is your go-to
source for insider tips, markettrends and success strategies.
Here's your host, Craig Evans.
Craig Evans (00:45):
Hey everybody. We are super excited to be on
today. We have got a great guestwith us today. It is a recent
friend of mine that has become agood acquaintance and and
hopefully long time friend.
Jason Medley, is the CEO,although he says the Chief
Connector of Collective Genius,he is the Founder and Chief
(01:06):
Connector of that so, Jason isthe founder of Collective
Genius, which is a real estateMastermind group that brings
together 200 of the nation's topreal estate investors on a
quarterly basis to brainstormabout housing, market changes,
and to share their most intimatesecrets, strategies, and
resources and systems. Jason hasover 21 years experience in real
(01:30):
estate, where he has partneredin over 2600 multi family doors
and funded more than 1500 loansthrough this sharing, the
members of the CollectiveGeniusthrive, regardless of
housing market changes oreconomic fluctuations, and live
life freely on their own termsand by their own rules. Jason
(01:52):
man, it is great to have you on,I know you know, it's been a
little bit since we've seen eachother, but I'm grateful for you
jumping on just before the endof the year here and listen, I
want to say, also, I reallyappreciate you guys and
collective genius sponsoring. ISurvived Real Estate, you know,
again this year, that was a bigevent. Had it had a really good
(02:15):
turnout for,you know, everythingthat went on there, and
Make-A-Wish of OCIE. So, supergreat. And honestly, I
appreciate the invite to yourevent up in Tampa this year,
just what, four weeks ago, maybea month or so ago, great event.
It was really cool to see howyou guys do things and what you
(02:38):
do and how you put it on. So,Jason, listen, I want to jump
in. I want to talk aboutCollective Genius. But you know,
for those that don't know whoyou are or know about collective
genius, if it's okay, I'd reallylove to dive in and kind of get
your story and your background,if that's okay.
Jason Medley (02:56):
Yeah, Brother, let's do it. I'm ready.
Hopefully we have some fun andget some some folks, some
worthwhile information.
Craig Evans (03:03):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Jason Medley (03:05):
We're speaking of worthwhile information. We are
that might be some datedinformation. We are not at 200
members or 200 investors. Weare, hopefully end of January
this year, we will approach andcross the 700 mark, so.
Craig Evans (03:21):
Wow.
Jason Medley (03:22):
I made the dig into where he got that. We might
have some dated info out there.
Craig Evans (03:27):
I was going to say that, that's what we were given
on the bio of that so I,because, I'll be honest, I
thought you were up over, Ithought you were up over 600
already I thought so, but.
Jason Medley (03:38):
700 I you know what I'm, we may have seen your
bio that needs updates.
Craig Evans (03:42):
Well, like I say, you know, at the end of the day,
my goal was getting you on here,and let's get information
directly to people. So listen,you're originally from Kentucky,
if I remember, right, we satdown at dinner and got to share
each other's kind of lifestories. If I remember, you're
from Kentucky, tell us where inKentucky?
Jason Medley (04:04):
Originally from Louisville, Kentucky for about
the first 24-ish years of mylife, and then in Tampa, Florida
for about the next 30.
Craig Evans (04:17):
So, growing up in Kentucky, I mean, what was it
like for you living there?
Jason Medley (04:21):
Well, Kentucky is a great town, man. It's, you
know, everybody has theirconnotation of it. But little is
a pretty good sized city. I livein Tampa now, it's probably,
probably pretty relative to thesame size. But of course, there
was some teasing going on when Icame down here. Everybody want
to know if I drove down acovered wagon and they were
(04:41):
surprised, you know, surprisedthat I had all my tees and all
that kind of stuff. But, youknow, no, it was, it was good
growing up, you know, I was onlychild, you know, a mom raised me
from the time I was probablyabout a year old. I had great
family, aunts, uncles, had awonderful, wonderful mother, you
(05:04):
know, who really kind of knewthe right balance between love
and discipline, and on any givenday, they could be one the same.
But you know, born and raised orwent to Catholic grade school,
Catholic High School, went intoa small college after that. And,
(05:24):
you know, growing up there, Ithink I kind of started my
entrepreneurial journey. Or Ishould say, my mother required I
start my entrepreneurial journeyat about 12 years old. And I
remember her telling me, up. I'mgoing to give you three things.
One of them you were born with,will get you a lawnmower, a weed
(05:45):
eater, and you got a pair a setof knuckles. And so get to
knocking right and but sureenough, that was, that did that
turned out to be kind of my, myentry into me, an entrepreneur
at 12 years old, and I was, youknow, before you know it, I was
cutting 20 lawns a week andknocking down 400 bucks in cash,
(06:08):
which, at the time was great.
And then by time I was 16, I hadsome money to get a car. So, but
yeah, that's, that's a littlebit about, about me and growing
up.
Craig Evans (06:19):
So, you know you're, I'll be honest, Jason,
we talked through a lot ofstuff. I did not know that was
your first gig. I don't know.
Jason Medley (06:29):
Yeah.
Craig Evans (06:29):
If you and I have talked about that, that's
literally, I was 12. I startedcutting grass. I actually hired
four of my friends within thefirst three weeks, and we're
working for me, so it's runningat me.
Jason Medley (06:45):
I was still pushing. I was still pushing the
lawnmowers.
Craig Evans (06:49):
Well, listen, I learned quickly. I was going to
bring my guys some Fritos andsome Gatorade to keep them
going, right? I had to bribethem to keep going.
Jason Medley (06:58):
Yeah. I think one of the things we talked about is
I'm a better COO than a CEO, andI think that that just shine the
light on it, right? I waspushing a lot more, and you
already had your buddies workfor you.
Craig Evans (07:09):
Well, listen, so Alright, so, you're 12, you're
cutting grass.
Jason Medley (07:13):
Yeah.
Craig Evans (07:13):
And getting calluses on the knuckles of
knocking on doors, right?
Jason Medley (07:17):
Yeah.
Craig Evans (07:18):
And, but as you're doing that, what at that point
did you have an idea? I mean,were you already looking ahead
saying, Hey, this is what I wantto do, right? Was it the the
typical, I want to be a firemanor an astronaut or were you
already looking at thingssaying, hey, I want to do this.
Jason Medley (07:37):
Um, I don't know, at 12 years old, I was probably
like, Damn, it's hot outside.
They'd be playing their ass. ButI did have my eye on the prize,
which is, you know, make my momwas single mom, and she was a,
you know, assistant. And so, youknow, she didn't, she make much
money. So I knew if I wanted tohave car that, that I was going
to figure that out and so well,I'd say I did have my eye on the
(08:03):
prize. But as far as knowing Iwanted to be an entrepreneur, I
think that probably came alittle bit later in my life,
where, when you combine thatexperience with when my mom got
remarried, I don't know. I guessthat was probably 14 or 15 years
old at the time, and sheremarried an entrepreneur, and
(08:25):
just time with him and seeingwhat he had accomplished, and,
you know, kind of him pouringinto me, and my mom did too
well. It's Tim what you knowthat, you're capable of doing,
you know, wherever you put yourmind, to and helping me
understand that I could pay myown way, you know, and if I was
willing to pay the price, yep,but then I can, kind of create
(08:48):
my own, create and craft my ownfuture. And so I see that that
tune of overall, overarchingthought about entrepreneurship
probably came 14, 15 years old,and, you know, that's something
that has for sure. I mean, Istarted out after, you know,
(09:10):
when I didn't got to go rightinto true entrepreneurship. When
I graduated college, I went towork for, you know, went to work
for corporate for five or sixyears. Had a nice base salary
and a company car and all thatjazz and but before long, I
realized where I know where mypaychecks coming from every day,
I'm not near as good as I gottaget up and hunt.
Craig Evans (09:34):
And hustle. Yeah.
Jason Medley (09:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Craig Evans (09:36):
So, so, you know, there's so many people that are
especially coming into theinvesting world, right, that,
they're hustling a nine to five,you know, they're trying to
grind through that, trying tomake that determination of, you
know, how do I get out of thisand get into doing my own and
being, you know, be able to livefreely in what I do. And I've
(10:00):
heard so many people through theyears as I've talked to them
about this, that just, it's likethey don't know how to get out
of what they're currently in.
Because I think, Oh, well, Iwould have to make more. I'd
have to do this, you know. Sowith that, I mean, what was your
first job? You know, you'resaying you're coming out of
college. I mean, what'd youstudy in college? What was the
background of that? And what wasyour first job that you had?
Jason Medley (10:22):
Yeah, my first degree in college was in
partying, and then my second wasin economics. So I have two two
degrees. Yep,kidding aside, Iwas like a straight A student
until, you know, till myfreshman year of college, I
graduated. I graduate. I went inmy senior year on academic
probation, had a 1.8 GPA, and ifI didn't get it above 2.0 that
(10:47):
last semester, I was I was goingto be killing back so, but I
just really never worried aboutgrades. That was the influence
that my stepfather had on me.
You know, he just kind of taughtme that, you know, if you got
the grit, the grinding, in thein the vision that none of that
stuff's eventually going tomatter. And so I just kind of
disconnected from it a littlebit. And my mom was super
strict, and so when I got awayfrom home, I lit it on fire, to
(11:10):
say the least. But I was, I wasstill very driven. I just didn't
care about school, so I wasstill driven. And then, you
know, I started going to jobfairs in my senior year and
sending resumes. And one thingmy mom had always told me was
follow up, follow up, follow up,follow up, follow up, follow up,
(11:31):
right fortunate in the followup. Then I said, Follow up. And
so my first job was with adecent sized regional company
called PBNS chemical, and theywere the they didn't manufacture
chemicals, but they soldchemicals. And, you know,
anything and everything haschemicals in it. From, you know,
(11:52):
I just jumped out of the shower,whether it's watching a poo or,
you know, the paint that's onthis, you know, bookshelf behind
me, or you name it, the gel inyour hair, and then stuff in
your toothpaste, the everything,the chlorine in your pool,
everything with chemicals in it.
So that was my first position inoutside sales, and when I had my
(12:17):
eyes set on at the time, andwhat I thought was what I really
wanted to do, which was work fora pharmaceutical company. And
that's about the time when thattranscript, that 1.8 up until
last semester senior year, cameback. So I started applying for
(12:37):
pharmaceutical companies, andeventually I met a recruiter at
Johnson and Johnson J&J hashundreds of companies, and they
have recruiters that recruitacross a multitude of their
platforms. And so I met arecruiter. I'll never forget
her. She's just like I couldtell you're a talented kid.
You're going to run some hiccupswith that transcripts, but if
(13:02):
you stay diligent, we're goingto get you a position. And so
that's what happened. Staydiligent. Probably interview
with several differentcompanies, with Johnson Johnson,
and ended up going to work fortheir division, Ortho-McNeill.
And, you know, had a good gigthere, but I just ended up,
really the thing I thought Iwanted is actually something I
(13:24):
ended up despising. You know, Iwas wet behind 20 something
years old. We behind the earstrying to tell doctors what kind
of medicine they shouldsubscribe and you know what I
really felt like was anoverpaid, overdressed sample
dropper offer these positions,and so I just, that's at the
(13:46):
point where I realized, like,man, if I got a nice static
check coming into the car, I'mgood. I'm good, you know. But
that's really kind of when Ihave big pivotal shift in my
life. I got very, very, verysick, like almost kicking the
bucket sick in my later 20s, andknowing that, so I was on short
(14:12):
term disability, that's how sickI was. And so knowing that, you
know, I was on short termdisability and still had a
verifiable paycheck. I wasrefinancing my home and doing
taking a little cash out to tryand figure out what was next for
me if I was going to stay, if Iwas go. But, you know, it was
very apparent they wanted me tocome back and sprint and run,
(14:33):
and I just wasn't healthy enoughto do that. So during the middle
of that refinance, this younglad pulls up to the house in a
black on black on black, 911Carrera turbo. And he might have
been a year or two younger me,or at that time, I was probably
28 right? And I was saying,Where did you how'd you get
that? And he said, well, doingmortgages. And I was like, You
(14:56):
got a handy chair over there atthe shop? You know? You. And
sooner, soon enough, man, hesaid, I don't really know, but
let me check with with the guythat I worked for. And he
checked with him, and, you know,they call short term disability,
short term for reason, couldonly last so long, and I was
coming at the end of that, and Iwas just not myself, and
(15:17):
couldn't imagine going frombeing lost for months and being
sick a very long time, back intoa cubicle. And so he told me
they had a position in that'swhen I left corporate America
and went into a straight 100%commission job. And went from
steady paycheck, steady Eddie toget up and hunt every single
(15:40):
day, and I've figured out atthat point that that's what
brought out the best in me.
Craig Evans (15:45):
Right?
Jason Medley (15:46):
Yeah.
Craig Evans (15:47):
So when did you make that switch?
Jason Medley (15:50):
That was in my late 20s. It was my late 20s.
Yeah, that was in my late 20s,and I had a bunch of surgery. It
was just trying to get it, youknow, trying to get back up on
my two feet. I was wiped out.
Physically. I weighed, I think,115 pounds. And I walk around
normally at, you know, about180.
Craig Evans (16:10):
Right.
Jason Medley (16:11):
So I was just, you know, I was just trying to get
some momentum.
Craig Evans (16:15):
So that would have been, because if I remember you
and I are, like, right at thewithin months of the same age of
each other. So that would havebeen, what, mid 2000s or so?
Jason Medley (16:26):
No, no, that was.
Craig Evans (16:30):
Oh, no. wait a minute, that would have been
late or probably mid 90sactually, late 90s.
Jason Medley (16:35):
Late 90s. Yeah, I was in a hospital on 911 that's
all I know. It was the late 90s.
Craig Evans (16:42):
Okay.
Jason Medley (16:43):
Yeah, so that was late 90s.
Craig Evans (16:46):
So now, how long were you in mortgage before you,
you know, really startedswitching. Because what I'm
trying to get to is now you're,you've come into mortgaging, so
you're starting to dance intoreal estate. You know, where
were you at when '08 hit andthat whole crash of everything,
what were you doing at thatpoint?
Jason Medley (17:03):
So, I started my retail mortgage business in the
early 2000 early 2000s thought Iwas the business baby. Thought I
was the business. The market wasbooming. There was tons of new
construction in Florida combinedwith low interest rates. So
there was new constructionloans, plus all the refinances.
Like, man, I was cool. I waslike, I know exactly what's
(17:27):
going on. I personally have gotit all figured out. And then,
BAAM! right? Just you said themagic four numbers, right. Where
were you at? 2008 everybodyknows where they were at, right,
um, and so I was doing my thingthat thought I had all figured
out. Then, you know, the marketsto go up the fastest come down
(17:49):
the fastest, when, when thingslike that happen. And so I was
running my own mortgagebusiness. And, man, everything,
honestly, everything, at thatpoint came off the rails. Um, I
lost my my business. I was, Iwent to, lost my marriage. Lost,
you know, I had made a ton ofmoney during that time, but I
(18:10):
was, I was blowing, I wasblowing it. You know, young and
young and no financialdiscipline, making money as a
skill set, keeping it is adiscipline. Somebody write that.
That's the lesson I learned fromthat. And so in 2008 I had to do
a reset, and went through a veryhorrible, you know, going from
(18:30):
on top of the world, you know,running a decent sized retail
mortgage shop, and to losingthat, my marriage, short selling
like, you know, I had hit thereset button and went through a
pretty low time during thattime, like, at the bottom of the
(18:51):
question and who I was and whatwas made of, and what my future
looked like, and so, yeah,pretty rough, rough spot, my
life for sure.
Craig Evans (19:05):
You know, I think that's part of why I wanted to
go into it. Because, you know,we haven't gotten told, but I've
had a similar story. I mean, youknow, we had and I think it's
interesting when you talk topeople that have success, to me,
those that are often the mostsuccessful. Know how to come out
of a downfall.
Jason Medley (19:25):
Yeah.
Craig Evans (19:26):
They know how to recover. They know how to pivot.
They know how to work throughsomething that slapped him in
the face and they weren't readyfor but they figured out how to,
you know us all country boysknow that saying of you know,
they pulled themselves up bytheir bootstraps and kept going,
right? I mean, they figured out,how do you clean yourself up.
Jason Medley (19:46):
Yeah. Yeah.
Craig Evans (19:47):
Those things aren't easy all the time, you know. So,
Jason, what do you think is thebiggest mistake? Because social
media all the highs we alwaystalk about, right? Those are the
easy things, right? What do youthink is the biggest mistake
that you've ever made in realestate, or maybe the biggest
(20:08):
obstacle you've ever had toovercome? However you want to
play it, but I want to be ableto see that as much as success
we've had, it's not always, wedon't always get it right.
Jason Medley (20:19):
Yeah, um, I'd say the big and we can go back two
or three minutes and referencethe biggest mistake that I think
I made was prior to 2000 may inthat, you know, it was kind of
my first foray into, into, youknow, running my whole company.
And I didn't understand, nor didI appreciate that sentiment and
(20:41):
momentum were running thatmarket right, like I thought it
was because I actually knew whatI was doing. Yes, Humor me.
Humor me from a moment there,but no, legitimately, I was
like, I got this. I know whatI'm doing right. And the reality
of it is, is I was just in theway. I was just in the way.
(21:04):
Well, we're coming out of thatright now, right like we at the
bottom, you know, 2008, 2009,2010 and we've had a 12 13, year
run of, you know, in the last 24months, there's been a bunch of
young bucks had to go homebecause they thought they knew
what they were doing. And thenthe market shifted, and they
were like, Oh, all right, Idon't really know what I'm
(21:26):
doing. I don't really know howto run a business. I just have
to be shooting fish in a barrel.
So you know, that's probably thebiggest mistake that I made. And
also not understanding what Ireferenced earlier is that
making money is a skill set,keeping it is a discipline. They
are not going in the same and Ididn't realize at that point, at
that point in my life, I wasjust kind of burning it as I
(21:49):
went, whereas now I am veryrigid financially, with the
disciplines required to keepmoney, not just make money. And
so definitely biggest mistake isthinking I was responsible for
what was going on. That's,that's my biggest mistake.
Craig Evans (22:13):
So, so coming out of that, you know, and you look
to where now you're, what do wesay you're? We're 51 or 52 years
old?
Jason Medley (22:23):
Something like that?
Craig Evans (22:24):
Yes, yeah. You know.
Jason Medley (22:26):
Something like that.
Craig Evans (22:28):
30th anniversary of 20.
Jason Medley (22:31):
Plus two, yeah?
Craig Evans (22:35):
Well, I mean, you know, it's us guys sitting here.
I can't, I can't ask a lady thatwe can't talk about that when a
lady's on the show.
Jason Medley (22:40):
Right.
Craig Evans (22:41):
So, so, so, but you're coming out of that you
think you're God reincarnated inthe finance world, in the
mortgage world, and and 2008slaps us into reality. So you,
(23:01):
started Collective Genius.
You've recreated all of it. You,you've created all this. You
know, if you look at JasonMedley, now, what do you say is
your specialty in real estate?
Like I say, I want to move intoCollective Genius. But what you
what do you say is yourspecialty in real estate itself?
Jason Medley (23:21):
Yeah, if I had to pin that down, I would say I
underwrite people first anddeals second.
Craig Evans (23:34):
Okay, tell me. Tell me about that. I because I think
that's one of those, especiallywith a lot of young investors,
they don't get to hear stufflike this.
Jason Medley (23:44):
Well, yeah, and I'm trying to think of how to
frame it for a young investor,because you said, What is my
superpower, how I wouldrereference it now.
Craig Evans (23:54):
Yeah, your specialty, yeah.
Jason Medley (23:56):
Yeah, especially, yeah. But where I'm at in my
career, I know so many people,and I get to watch them from a
either a short distance or fromafar, as regards to who they
are, how they operate theirbusiness, and so forth. And so I
look at who they are as a humanbeing, right, who they are as a
man, as a woman, as a mother, asa father, as a spouse, as a
(24:18):
leader. And that's equally asimportant, because here's the
thing, in real estate, there'sstuff goes wrong. I was going to
use another choice word besidesstuff, but you guys get the
point right, and you have toknow that when things go wrong,
the person you're doing businesswith is going to handle it the
right way. Because you don'tnever know what cockroaches
cockroach until they got theirback in corner.
Craig Evans (24:41):
That's right.
Jason Medley (24:41):
You don't know.
Boy, they can scurry around.
Craig Evans (24:46):
That's it.
Jason Medley (24:47):
Yeah. And so I think that that is, you know,
for somebody new, starting out,you know. And again, I'm on the
lending and equity side, so Idon't really under, you know, I
don't really do the physicalside of the physical asset side
of the business, but I think youjust really need to know who
(25:07):
you're doing business with atthe best level you can, which is
when you're just breaking intoan industry is selling, what
tough versus, you know, the oldguys, like like us, who know a
lot of people, but that's thething I think. I would probably
check on if you're lendingmoney, or if you're going to
(25:28):
flip a house and hire somecontractors. I would, you know,
get some references. And, youknow, don't just ask, like, Hey,
did you make money with thisperson, or did they finish the
job one time? Like, you know,what did you how did you feel
about them as human being? Isis, to me, every bit as
important of how I could formfrom business perspective,
(25:50):
because that's great you couldbe in 13 years momentum on the
market, which we're coming offof, and then things start to go
wrong. I didn't know who you areas a human being.
Craig Evans (25:59):
That's right.
Jason Medley (26:00):
At that point. And so that would probably be what I
would consider my specialty, ifyou will.
Craig Evans (26:07):
But, and I think that's especially for young
Jason Medley (26:08):
An example of that is, you know, let's say you're
investors, you know, I thinkit's such a crucial process for
them to understand is becausethey, I mean, listen, we're
looking at rehabbing a house,and you're just getting started,
always looking at the asset, youknow, is there equity? Where's
that asset stand? How does thatroll? What are the numbers look
(26:28):
like? You got to know yournumbers, and we talked a lot
about that at your last at yourlast event, but I think that
people, just as you're talkingabout Jason, that they forget
and you pencil it out, andyou're like, Well, I think I can
and undervalue, if you will, therelationship with people that
matter. You know, like you say,knowing that contractor, that
(26:48):
when something goes wrong,because it's construction and it
will, are they still going to bethere, right? That linear that
promises you go get the deal andwill lend. Can they close? Can
they get to the closing table?
make, like, 50 grand on thisthing. And then you've got two
(27:15):
contractors, one that's going tocharge you 80, and one that's
going to charge you, you know,70. And you think, well, I could
use that 10 grand, right? Butif, if that one that's going to
charge you a little bit more hasa proven track record and is a
pillar of, you know, anindividual that you feel like,
(27:37):
man is really get a good feelingabout this person. You know, you
probably be better off. And youknow, taking the extra 10k hit
in, because it's always morethan the money, right? Like, if
you get a rehab, it goes wrong.
It's more than the 10 extragrand, right? Like, it's the
headache in the contracted listand the like, you just want to
pull your hair out, and it tooktwice as long, and it went over
(27:59):
budget. And, you know, it's morethan just the number that it
ends up costing. It's allsuffering. Try again in between,
and so, you know, but those arereally hard decisions to make
when you're trying to createmomentum. It you don't have it.
Craig Evans (28:19):
Yep.
Jason Medley (28:20):
You know you will make more bad decisions and
sacrifice your your gutsometimes, and you know it's I'm
not saying it's easy.
Craig Evans (28:33):
Alright everybody that's going to do it for part
one with Jason Medley, make sureand tune in next week.
Narrator (28:38):
For more information on hard money loans, trust deed
investing, and upcoming eventswith The Norris group. Check out
thenorrisgroup.com. For moreinformation on passive investing
through the DBL Capital RealEstate Investment Fund, please
visit dblapital.com.
Joey Romero (28:58):
The Norris group originates and services loans in
California and Florida underCalifornia DRE license 01219911.
Florida mortgage lender license1577 and NMLS license 1623669.
For more information on hardmoney lending go to
thenorrisgroup.com and click thehard money tab.
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