February 21, 2025 • 27 mins
Kaaren Hall is the founder and CEO of uDirect IRA Services, LLC, a leading provider of self-directed IRA accounts since 2009. With over 20 years of experience in real estate, mortgage lending, and self-directed retirement accounts, she has helped thousands take control of their retirement funds by investing in alternative assets like real estate, private lending, and precious metals. A sought-after speaker, Kaaren has shared her expertise at top industry conferences, including BiggerPockets’ BPCON22, 23 & 24.
In addition to leading uDirect IRA Services, Kaaren founded the Orange County Real Estate Investors Association (OCREIA) in 2012, fostering education and networking among investors. She is also the author of Self-Directed IRA Investing: A BiggerPockets Guide, a comprehensive resource for investors looking to build wealth through self-directed IRAs. Passionate about financial education and advocacy, she serves on the boards of The Council on Aging Southern California and the Retirement Industry Trust Association (RITA), promoting transparency in the retirement industry.
Take control of your future and discover a powerful retirement secret for real estate investors: Self- directed IRAs
Self-Directed IRA Investing: A BiggerPockets Guide with Kaaren Hall. Get it HERE
In this episode:
- How Self-Directed IRAs empower investors beyond traditional retirement accounts.
- Self-Directed IRAs vs. 401(k): Key Differences – What sets them apart and which is best for your financial goals.
- Managing Real Estate in a Self-Directed IRA – Strategies, tax advantages, and potential pitfalls.
- The Legal Framework for Self-Directed IRAs – What assets qualify and how to stay compliant.
- Mistakes Investors Make with Self-Directed IRAs.
- How the SECURE Act 1.0 & 2.0 Affects Retirement Accounts.
The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.
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Narrator (00:01):
Welcome to The Norris Group real estate podcast, a
show committed to bringing youinsights from thought leaders
shaping the real estateindustry. In each episode, we'll
dive into conversations withindustry experts and local
insiders, all aimed at helpingyou thrive in an ever-changing
real estate market. continuingthe legacy that Bruce Norris
(00:24):
created, sharing valuableknowledge, and empowering you on
your real estate journey.
Whether you're a seasoned pro ora newcomer, this is your go-to
source for insider tips, markettrends and success strategies.
Here's your host, Craig Evans.
Joey Romero (00:45):
Welcome back and thank you for tuning in for part
two of our interview with KarenHall, CEO of uDirect IRA
Services. Hope you enjoy.
Craig Evans (00:54):
Can anyone set up an IRA?
Kaaren Hall (00:57):
Right. Yeah, you can. I mean, the barrier to
entry to a self directed IRA isto have earned income. But you
know, when you we were justtalking, you remind me of
something like, when I wasyounger. That's how I felt, the
same way, like, how can I everdo this? And then you just one
step at a time, take little,tiny leaps of faith. And I think
the first thing I did, I justwant to throw out there, is got
(01:18):
a real estate license and reallylearned about this asset class
and so I, and then, little bylittle, worked my way into it.
So and, you know, just becauseyou can't do it now doesn't mean
you can't learn and grow andchange and expand, because
that's what we do as humans, youknow. And you'll be able to do
all those things. So just wantto offer some courage.
Craig Evans (01:39):
Compared to traditional IRAs, whether it's
Roth, any simple IRAs setups,anything, what do you see as the
biggest benefit of a SelfDirected IRA?
Kaaren Hall (01:51):
Expanding the choice of asset classes.
Sometimes we see the stockmarket take a dive, and we see
all asset classes take a dive,let's be fair. You know they all
take a dive, but it offers youmore diversity so you can, you
know, you can diversify more inyour portfolio, so you can
weather a storm better, but alsowith self directed IRAs and
(02:14):
alternative assets, you havemore control over the asset. So
if you're investing, say, in anindex fund or a mutual fund,
there's some manager managingthat you don't even know that
person, and they're making thedecisions, hopefully doing a
good job, but they're making thedecisions that affect your
portfolio. Well, if you're a doit yourselfer and you like to
make your own decisions, I havea feeling you're that man, Craig
(02:39):
and so, you know, you want to doit yourself. You know you know
what you're doing. You know, youunderstand an asset class, and
that's what you want to do. Soyour IRA can invest in a fund.
You know, your IRA can invest ina syndication, and then you can,
then if you're investing withsomebody else's deal, then
you've got more control. Youcould talk to that person, we
(02:59):
probably don't, pick up thephone and call the manager of
your mutual fund and, you know,pick their brain, or even have
access to them, or even knowtheir name for that.
Craig Evans (03:08):
Right. How different is a 401(k)? What is
the difference between that anda self directed?
Kaaren Hall (03:15):
I have all company about it, but with the 401(k), I
think that's it done. I mean,that's where we become
investors, isn't it?
Craig Evans (03:22):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (03:23):
We get a job and, oh, the company happens to have
a 401(k). We don't even realize,hey, I'm an investor now. I have
a 401(k), and some of my incomewent into this pot of money.,I'm
an investor. That's how youbecome an investor. You just get
a job, doing your thing, and thecompany you work for offers you
this opportunity, boom, you'rean investor. That's how that
(03:44):
happens.
Craig Evans (03:44):
Yep.
Kaaren Hall (03:45):
So, a 401(k) or an employer plan. It's, we call
them ERISA plans, even thoughERISA covers really all
retirement plans. But we callthose ERISA plan, could be a
401(k), a 403(b), a 457, a TSP,different names for employer
accounts. Now, traditionally,those accounts have not allowed
(04:07):
alternative assets, and in fact,they just don't, you know for
the most part. Now, you can goto the next layer, to a defined
benefit plan, and definedbenefit plans do, that's going
into another world. But here'ssomething really interesting.
We're in a new world. We've gota new president or, you know,
2.0 you know.
Craig Evans (04:27):
Yep.
Kaaren Hall (04:29):
Well, one of the things that he's talking about
is allowing alternative assetsin your employer plan, huh?
Craig Evans (04:39):
Really?
Kaaren Hall (04:40):
Yeah. And let's see if that happens. Wouldn't that
be fine, like syndications inyour employer plan?
Craig Evans (04:46):
Yeah.
Kaaren Hall (04:46):
So, that may happen. That is something that
could be on the horizon. Earlydays, you know, I think what are
we not even a month into it bythe time we're broadcasting
right now.
Craig Evans (04:55):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (04:56):
But we'll see what happens. I mean, if you can, you
know, self direct or invest inalternative assets, personally,
why not with your employeraccount? Now, the reason before,
the reasoning is that, well,you're not a sophisticated
investor. If you, you know, ifyou are working for a company,
you're, what you'resophisticated in is doing your
job. You haven't become asophisticated investor yet. And
(05:18):
so alternative assets, I mean,you really do want to know what
you're talking about here. Youwant to understand the asset
class. It's not just a one sizefits all. So I kind of diverted
off your question. So let meknow if I that properly.
Craig Evans (05:32):
Yeah, no, no, and that's why I was letting you go,
because I will you wereanswering a lot of things. These
are all things that I want ourpeople to hear. So, for that
person that's had their job for10, 15, 20 years, whatever it
is, right? And they've got agreat 401(k), they got cash
stacked away in that, it'sturning it's in, you know, in
(05:53):
the market, doing things, canthey turn a 401(k) into a self
directed IRA?
Kaaren Hall (05:59):
Absolutely, right.
You can. Now, if you still workfor that employer, you may not
be able to move that money, butwith the 401(k), you can go to
your plan administrator, whichisn't your HR company, you know,
your HR department. It's thelike fidelity. It's whoever's
running the plan, the companythat the custodian of that plan.
Craig Evans (06:17):
Sure.
Kaaren Hall (06:18):
Ask, 'Hey, can I get an in service transfer?'
Craig Evans (06:22):
Okay.
Kaaren Hall (06:22):
Yeah, yeah. And then if they say, yes, you can
move that money.
Craig Evans (06:26):
And so then, you know, like in that situation,
they reach out to you, you guyshelp them set up a self directed
account, and they're moving thatmoney to you now, correct?
Kaaren Hall (06:37):
That's right, and they're moving it into their
account. And when they do,they're, you know, we've got a
really robust platform, and it'svery easy to understand things
are digital. We didn't startthat way, but we're digital now,
and I love it.Really is helpful.
And then they can choose theasset classes that they wish to
invest. That's what we callourselves uDirect. You know,
we're not telling them what toinvest in. The account holders
(06:58):
choosing like you u-Haul, youknow, they're not moving,
they're not moving yourfurniture, and you're holding
it. But they give you thevehicle to move, you know, to
move your your furniture. Well,we give you the vehicle to move
your retirement into differentasset classes.
Craig Evans (07:15):
If you've got real estate inside of a self directed
I mean, you know, let's face it,most of everybody that's
watching this is really probablyfocusing on this from a real
estate perspective. If you gotreal estate in it, whether you
own it wholly, or whether youhave some debt service on it,
what can the real estate dowithin the IRA, within that self
directed IRA?
Kaaren Hall (07:36):
Right. Real Estate, I think it well, I know, is the
foundation of almost all theassets that people invest in,
there are a few exceptions, likecryptocurrency or precious
metals, but almost all the otherassets have real estate as
underlying. You know,underlying, like a note. A lot
(07:57):
of times notes are on realestate syndications are created
so that someone can build apiece of commercial real estate,
you know, so real estate. Butsay, if you have a house and,
you know, like, what can you doto manage that? Is that what
you're asking?
Craig Evans (08:13):
Well, yeah, I mean, as I'm looking through that, you
know, what are the options oncethat the asset is in that class
and is in that account. Youknow, what are the options you
can do with that? I mean, canyou sell? Can you hold? Can you,
you know, can you 1031 insidethat? I mean, so many things I
was thinking about is, what canhappen inside that, inside that
(08:36):
account?
Kaaren Hall (08:37):
Yeah, you wouldn't 1031, 1031 is, obviously refers
to tax code. You know, that'sthe tax code 1031 like all these
numbers do, but with 1031 it's away to avoid paying tax on the
sale. Well, in a self directedIRA, it's already in the tax
protected kind of little bubble.
Craig Evans (08:52):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (08:53):
So, not really 1031 with the self directed IRA, but
yeah, you can, you know, buy,sell, you can, but what you
can't do is offer services tothe plan, which means you can't
go swinging the hammers. You canoffer sweat equity. So, if your
IRA owns a house, you're notgoing to, you know, replace that
water heater. You're not goingto do things like that. You can
(09:13):
hire third parties to do it.
Craig Evans (09:15):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (09:15):
But you're not going to be doing that yourself.
But there are just so manydifferent ways to invest with,
again, with real estate beingthe underlying asset, whether
it's somebody else managing itin syndication, or with you
having a separate property,hiring third party vendors,
hiring maybe a property manager,but you can still screen the
(09:35):
tenants, pick up and collecttheir rent checks, send it to
the IRA, right? You can haveother people fix things and
select the tenants. You canscreen the tenants, but just
make sure that all of, this is abig thing. This is like a common
mistake, when you have a selfdirected IRA real estate or
whatever, make sure that theproceeds go back in the IRA that
(09:57):
owns the asset. And sometimessyndicators will write the check
to you and send it to youpersonally. Do not cash that
check. Prohibited transactionblows the tax protected bubble
of your IRA. So, if you get acheck made payable to you for an
asset that your IRA owns, callthem up or whatever, mail the
(10:18):
check back. Say, Please recutthis check, make it payable to
my IRA, because they you do notwant to commit a prohibited
transaction by, you know, takingthe proceeds from an IRA owned
asset.
Craig Evans (10:27):
It was interesting, you mentioned notes. So, can you
do, can you use hard money outof that and invest in notes for
real estate, that type ofprocess?
Kaaren Hall (10:40):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And, it's super popular to
be the bank with an IRA, andpeople love securing secured
loans, because, isn't it to thebest of all worlds? I mean, for,
especially for a retirementaccount, it's passive. It's, of
course you want to, you've gotto do loan servicing, and you
can hire a third party loanservicer if you need to go and,
like, collect on a loan. Butyour IRA is like a bank. And I
(11:03):
think that's one of the thingsthat really got self directed.
IRAs started or rekindled in2009 as you remember, you
couldn't borrow money if youalready had, like, X number of
properties, you couldn't get aloan. And that's when savvy
investors, real estateinvestors, realize, 'hey, I can
borrow money from someone'sIRA.' And this is a big pot,
(11:25):
like, right now, it's somethinglike $40 trillion worth of
capital. I can tap into thiscapital, get money for my deal,
borrow money from people's IRAs,and, you know, build my
commercial building, you know,invest in my single family home.
I can get a loan. And it doesn'teven have to be for real estate.
It could be maybe you'restarting a business and you need
(11:46):
to raise capital. A lot ofpeople lost their businesses in
the recession and with COVID,and you're rebuilding, and you
need capital to rebuild yourbusiness. Well, hey, if somebody
has an IRA or a 401(k) from aprevious employer boom, they
could invest in your business.
And so that is something you canapproach people about. 'Hey, do
you have an IRA? Do you have a401(k)?,' if you do, you can
(12:06):
invest in my business. You caninvest in my deal. So, notes and
lending are a very, verypowerful part of self directed.
Craig Evans (12:16):
Okay, well, then you know that's obviously with
The Norris Group, we do hardmoney lending, right? We have
trusted investors that invest inthat. So, that's interesting. I
mean, literally, I'm learningstuff from you, as much as I
hope our audience is. I'm lovingthat I get to pick up nuggets
from you, you know. So, I knowwe've done some deals, and
(12:37):
you've answered a little bit ofthis with the syndication
aspect. But so just to clarify,someone that has self directed
accounts, they can invest inprivate equity or syndications
of certain deals, correct?
There's nothing legally thatwould borrow them from that,
correct?
Kaaren Hall (12:53):
That's right, because, again, the ERISA laws
were passed 50 years ago. It'sthe 50th anniversary of the IRA,
Happy anniversary. But they,when it would have passed, they
just said an IRA can't invest inlife insurance contracts and
collectibles. So, all theseasset classes are okay, you
know? And it's a lot of it iswhat a custodian will custody.
(13:14):
For example, your IRA couldinvest in a racehorse, because
that's an investment, but it'slike for us, it's an asset that
we choose not to custody. Itdoesn't mean you couldn't find
someone out there, paysomething, play a different
company, enough money to holdthat asset, you know, or to
allow that asset class.
Craig Evans (13:31):
Sure.
Kaaren Hall (13:32):
But, but, yeah. But anyway, as long as it's not life
insurance contracts andcollectibles, you can pretty
much do it.
Craig Evans (13:38):
What do you see is probably the biggest mistake
that investors make with theirself directed IRA?
Kaaren Hall (13:44):
I think the most, yeah, I it has to do with
acquiring property and thinkingthat the IRA is the down payment
on the house, but thinking of itfrom the traditional residential
real estate mindset. And I comefrom that mindset, you know, I,
like I said, I was in mortgage along time, and residential real
(14:04):
estate a long time. But when wepersonally buy a house, yeah, we
have a down payment, and then wego to a bank, we get a Fannie,
Freddie, FHA, VA, conventional,conforming kind of a loan. But
the retirement world is similar,but different. So, if your IRA
is going to buy a single family,house first, it has to be non
(14:25):
owner occupied. You can neveroccupy or have personal use of
an asset that an IRA owns. So,it's definitely going to be non
owner occupied first, and thenyour IRA is going to get a non
recourse loan. And that nonrecourse loan is going to be
some percentage. Now, these nonrecourse lenders are going to
(14:46):
ask for more skin in the game,not like when we buy a house.
Maybe you put 5% down. A nonrecourse lender is going to want
to put maybe 50% comes from theIRA, 50% comes from the law. So
that's something you want todiscuss with a non recourse
lender. And by the way, I'llmention that if any of the
listeners would like a list ofnon recourse lenders, because
(15:06):
it's kind of hard to find them,we've put together a list. I
mean, not a people that wenecessarily endorse, but just
for the convenience of you knowof your audience. And so you can
hit me up atinfo@udirectira.com, and I'll
shoot you that list.
Craig Evans (15:20):
Yeah, finding, finding non recourse for certain
situations, is not the easiesttask sometimes, so. You know,
every year we've got changes orpotential changes to regulation
in this space. What do you seeas the biggest item that you
guys as a brand, as a company,are focused on right now?
Kaaren Hall (15:37):
Yeah, well, we went through a lot of change since
2019 when we had the SECURE Act1.0 come out. And one of the big
things that changed is RMD agewent from 70 and a half to 72 I
think, or 71, anyway, it changedbecause of the SECURE Act 2.0
that was passed at the end of2022. Now, the RMD required
(15:59):
minimum distribution, that ageis 73 so that's something to
change. There are other thingsthat changed. But because there
was so much change betweenSECURE Act 1.0, 2.0,
Washington's going to prettymuch leave the retirement
account alone. Yay. For a littlewhile. I've been in the industry
17 years, and there hasn't beena lot of change and then, you
(16:20):
know, these two secure actsreally rocked our world in
creating some change, becauseit's been so placid and
unchangeable. But one of thebig, big changes with SECURE 2.0
that really impacts us is that,you'll love this, with a step in
a simple IRA, now you can makeRoth contributions to these
accounts, that just, you know,we think of a SIMPLE lower SEP
(16:46):
IRA being like a traditionalIRA, where you're making, you
know, pre tax contributions. Inother words, like you make a
contribution to a SEP and youcan take a deduction, as opposed
to Roth contributions, where youmake a contribution, it's after
tax. But then that investment,or any all those proceeds, grow
tax free for life. So, you canmake a Roth contribution now to
(17:07):
a SEP or a SIMPLE IRA. Now I'lltell you what the IRS hasn't
been super quick on, orDepartment of Treasury, which
you know the IRS is under,haven't been super quick and
providing us a whole lot ofguidance on that, even though
it's like what, you know, to atleast sell it two years later.
We're still waiting on someguidance on this, but that's one
of the big changes that occurredin the space.
Craig Evans (17:29):
Well, you know, it's probably because maybe they
don't have enough agents yet tobe able to do all that. Is that,
right?
Kaaren Hall (17:40):
We talked to the Department of Treasury. I'm on
the board for RITA, theRetirement Industry Trust
Association. So we have an eventin DC. It's coming up on here
pretty quick. We go everyspring, and the Department of
Treasury comes to the meeting.
We sit down, and they talk to uson a panel, and then we ask them
questions, 'when are we going toget more guidance on the Roth
contributions to the SEPs &SIMPLEs, and they're like, this
(18:00):
isn't like, it's top of mind forus. It's not necessarily top of
mind for them. So, we've saidthat's really going to move the
needle for a lot of people. Sowe would love some guidance,
son, and so that it's nice to beable to actually talk to the
Department of Treasury.
Craig Evans (18:15):
Can you move money from a from a Roth into a
Self-Directed?
Kaaren Hall (18:22):
Yeah, absolutely so. So, like a typical Roth
that's invested in stocks, thenyou've got a self directed Roth.
A Roth is a Roth the same rulesabout, you know, contributions,
the way the money comes in, theway it goes out, but self
directed just means it's adifferent asset class in the
plan.
Craig Evans (18:38):
Okay.
Kaaren Hall (18:39):
You can move money from a Roth IRA to a Roth self
directed IRA, just a straighttransfer.
Craig Evans (18:44):
You've been doing this for a while, you know, a
day or two. What do you see asprobably the most meaningful
change in this industry sinceyou began? Good or bad.
Kaaren Hall (18:58):
Yeah, the changes have been good, because, as I
mentioned earlier, the thebipartisan support for
retirement savings. So, what Ithe changes I've seen have all
supported retirement savings. Solike, for example, contribution
limits have increased over theyears. That's positive. And as
(19:18):
my company, one of the bestthings that's happened for us is
going from pretty analog todigital. That's been a huge
change. A few years ago, we hada giant change in our platform,
making things just so much morestreamlined and easy for our
account holders. Just astechnology develops, we've been
able to grow with that and makethings simpler and more
efficient, and it makes theprocess run a lot smoother. So,
(19:42):
you know, like the year overyear, we've doubled the number
of accounts are that we openlike from the previous year to
the, you know, to the followingyear. But we haven't had to hire
extra staff because of thedigital nature of our system. So
that's been a huge breakthroughfor us as a company.
Craig Evans (20:00):
So, I want to jump into something, hopefully you
won't get too uncomfortableabout it. But I want to give you
a little bit of chance to bragon you a little bit, right? So
you just wrote and publishedyour book, walk me through...
Kaaren Hall (20:12):
I just happen to have a copy with me, let me brag
about it, okay.
Craig Evans (20:15):
You just happen to have a copy there. So, yeah, I
saw those stacked on thebookshelves back there. How did
that come about for you? Andwhat was your passion? Because,
listen, that's not a quickprocess, and you've already got
a full plate. So, what was yourpassion that drove you to say,
'Man, I want to write a book,but I wanted to mean something
(20:36):
other than just having my nameon a paper.'
Kaaren Hall (20:39):
Well, yes, yeah, and I want my peers to read it
and say, 'Oh, wait, yeah, that'smeaningful,' yeah.
Craig Evans (20:44):
Yeah.
Kaaren Hall (20:45):
Well, it started about 10 years ago, you know. I
don't know if you know GeneTrowbridge. He is a well known
securities attorney.
Craig Evans (20:51):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (20:52):
And said, 'Hey, Karen, I'm writing a book. I
want you to write the chapter.'And, 'hey, why don't you write?'
So, Gene was super encouragingand inspirational, inspired me
to start this. So, there havebeen four or five iterations of
this book, and then about 2020,Bigger Pocket said, 'hey, we'd
(21:13):
really like for you to write abook for us'. I said, 'Oh,
that's great'. So, I at thattime, I already had a beautiful
manuscript, like formattedeverything, pretty much ready to
go. I mean, it still needed sometweaking, but so I gave them
that manuscript, and then theylooked at it for a while, and
then, you know, back and forth,and it didn't happen
instantaneously. And then theysaid, 'Yeah, we're not going to
(21:35):
publish this book.' I go, well,you know, that's showbiz, right?
So now, today is February 2025,it was September 2024 when they
called me and said, 'Hey, Karen,we want to do that book now.' We
already have your manuscript.
It's ready to go. Let's go andlike, 'Okay, we need it by
November' it's like two monthsto, because a lot has happened
(21:57):
since 2020, right.
Craig Evans (22:00):
Oh yeah.
Kaaren Hall (22:01):
SECURE 1.0, 2.0, and then rewrite it. Plus we
collaborated on it. So, itwasn't just me writing it. It
was writing it from theperspective of a real estate
investor. So, to totally rewritethe book, they were lovely to
work with. Their editing processwas genius. They would read,
read and say, Hey, why don't youwrite? You know, 'you say this,
(22:23):
but, tell me why?' Like thingsthat like, I know in my head, I
already know the why, but maybeI'm not thinking of the reader.
So, they would say 'the readeris going to want to know why, or
just elaborate on this.' So theediting process was really
wonderful, just working withsome lovely people over there,
and we got the whole thing puttogether. And I just thought,
(22:44):
oh, is this really going tohappen? Because, you know,
delays and things, but, I mean,I'm holding this book in my
hand. I can't believe, it was along road. Super grateful to the
wonderful people at BiggerPockets who published the book.
Craig Evans (22:58):
So, alright, so be so Bigger Pockets published.
Where, where can we get it? Howdo you get this book?
Kaaren Hall (23:03):
You can go on Amazon. Yeah, yeah. Amazon.com.
Is where you can find it, andyou can get it there. You could
also get it at Bigger Pockets,biggerpockets.com/sdira, self
directed IRA, SDIRA. So, youcould find it on the Bigger
Pocketswebsite or on Amazon, andplease write a review. Yay.
(23:23):
That's, I guess we need thesereviews. It's a thing in
publishing, you have to have areview.
Craig Evans (23:29):
So, last thing you know, from a local perspective
for you, I want people to hear,okay, you've got OCREIA. How do
they get involved with you? Howdo they find you? How to get
involved and be able to learnfrom you on a regular basis?
Kaaren Hall (23:45):
Right. So, being in the self directed IRA seat and
knowing so many asset sponsors,I'm able to cultivate this and
bring in people who can teachothers about real estate
investing. I think early on inthis interview, you were asking
me about, like, how does someonestart? Like, where do you even
start this thing? And this isone thing about OCREIA. So, you
(24:08):
it's O-C,-R-E-I-A.com, go to ourwebsite. We have a meeting at
the second Thursday of everymonth, and we'll maybe they're
on Zoom or in person. But, youknow, join the meeting, listen,
because someone's going to beteaching you likewhen Bruce, he
and Bruce has spoken on Zoom andin person, he's going to talk
about, first off, his brillianthistory of real estate
investing, which is soinspiring, or maybe like
(24:31):
someone's going to talk tonightabout multi family investing,
Keystone, CPA, Matt and Amanda,come on. They talk about, once
you've invested and you've gotthis money, what do you do with
it? How do you keep it? How doyou not lose it to taxes? We'll
have 1031 exchange people comein and talk about how to do the
1031 you know. And so, I saw youthat you interviewed Bill
(24:54):
Exeter. So he, you know, Bill,could, you know, talk to you
about that. And so we had bringdifferent people on so you can
learn all the different aspectsof this giant thing called real
estate investing.
Craig Evans (25:05):
I know it said, you know, OCREIA is the last one,
but it's not. I got one more toask, so.
Kaaren Hall (25:11):
Okay.
Craig Evans (25:12):
The biggest one, how do people get in touch with
you? Get involved with uDirect,you know. How do we start
changing their life by gettingto know you guys and learn how
you can help them affect theirfuture.
Kaaren Hall (25:27):
Right. Well, call us, you know, we are. We have a
toll free number, which Ihaven't memorized, but hit us up
with an email. That's really thebest way info@udirectira.com and
that's the best way, because mywhole staff gets that email, and
we'll be able to answer youstraight away. You know, email
your questions to us. You know,tell us your scenario, or just
(25:47):
go to our websiteudirectira.com, hit, you know,
contact us, and then that'swhere our calendar schedule and
appointment, and then you'llhave an appointment at your
convenience, where we'll callyou. And let's talk about what
you want to do. Is it aprohibited transaction? How do
you do it? What kind of accountdo you have? Can you move it?
Can't you move it? And answerall your questions.
Craig Evans (26:09):
Well, Kaaren, it has been a pleasure to have you
on. It's always so good to seeyou. Thank you for all you've
done for me over the last yearsince I've taken over The Norris
Group. You being a part of ourevent last year, in July or June
rather, and looking forward todo a lot more with you.
Hopefully, maybe and get out anddo some stuff with you and
(26:30):
OCREIA sometime, would love to,but it is a pleasure having you
on today. Thank you for pouringyour knowledge into everybody
that listens to us.
Kaaren Hall (26:39):
Thank you.
Craig Evans (26:40):
Thanks so much.
Listen, everybody thanks so muchfor having, being on today, and
we will see you next time.
Narrator (26:47):
For more information on hard money loans, trust deed
investing, and upcoming eventswith The Norris group. Check out
thenorrisgroup.com. For moreinformation on passive investing
through the DBL Capital RealEstate Investment Fund, please
visit dblapital.com.
Joey Romero (27:06):
The Norris Group originates and services loans in
California and Florida underCalifornia DRE license 01219911.
Florida mortgage lender license1577 and NMLS license 1623669.
For more information on hardmoney lending go to
thenorrisgroup.com and click thehard money tab.
Welcome to The Norris Group real estate podcast, a
show committed to bringing youinsights from thought leaders
shaping the real estateindustry. In each episode, we'll
dive into conversations withindustry experts and local
insiders, all aimed at helpingyou thrive in an ever-changing
real estate market. continuingthe legacy that Bruce Norris
(00:24):
created, sharing valuableknowledge, and empowering you on
your real estate journey.
Whether you're a seasoned pro ora newcomer, this is your go-to
source for insider tips, markettrends and success strategies.
Here's your host, Craig Evans.
Joey Romero (00:45):
Welcome back and thank you for tuning in for part
two of our interview with KarenHall, CEO of uDirect IRA
Services. Hope you enjoy.
Craig Evans (00:54):
Can anyone set up an IRA?
Kaaren Hall (00:57):
Right. Yeah, you can. I mean, the barrier to
entry to a self directed IRA isto have earned income. But you
know, when you we were justtalking, you remind me of
something like, when I wasyounger. That's how I felt, the
same way, like, how can I everdo this? And then you just one
step at a time, take little,tiny leaps of faith. And I think
the first thing I did, I justwant to throw out there, is got
(01:18):
a real estate license and reallylearned about this asset class
and so I, and then, little bylittle, worked my way into it.
So and, you know, just becauseyou can't do it now doesn't mean
you can't learn and grow andchange and expand, because
that's what we do as humans, youknow. And you'll be able to do
all those things. So just wantto offer some courage.
Craig Evans (01:39):
Compared to traditional IRAs, whether it's
Roth, any simple IRAs setups,anything, what do you see as the
biggest benefit of a SelfDirected IRA?
Kaaren Hall (01:51):
Expanding the choice of asset classes.
Sometimes we see the stockmarket take a dive, and we see
all asset classes take a dive,let's be fair. You know they all
take a dive, but it offers youmore diversity so you can, you
know, you can diversify more inyour portfolio, so you can
weather a storm better, but alsowith self directed IRAs and
(02:14):
alternative assets, you havemore control over the asset. So
if you're investing, say, in anindex fund or a mutual fund,
there's some manager managingthat you don't even know that
person, and they're making thedecisions, hopefully doing a
good job, but they're making thedecisions that affect your
portfolio. Well, if you're a doit yourselfer and you like to
make your own decisions, I havea feeling you're that man, Craig
(02:39):
and so, you know, you want to doit yourself. You know you know
what you're doing. You know, youunderstand an asset class, and
that's what you want to do. Soyour IRA can invest in a fund.
You know, your IRA can invest ina syndication, and then you can,
then if you're investing withsomebody else's deal, then
you've got more control. Youcould talk to that person, we
(02:59):
probably don't, pick up thephone and call the manager of
your mutual fund and, you know,pick their brain, or even have
access to them, or even knowtheir name for that.
Craig Evans (03:08):
Right. How different is a 401(k)? What is
the difference between that anda self directed?
Kaaren Hall (03:15):
I have all company about it, but with the 401(k), I
think that's it done. I mean,that's where we become
investors, isn't it?
Craig Evans (03:22):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (03:23):
We get a job and, oh, the company happens to have
a 401(k). We don't even realize,hey, I'm an investor now. I have
a 401(k), and some of my incomewent into this pot of money.,I'm
an investor. That's how youbecome an investor. You just get
a job, doing your thing, and thecompany you work for offers you
this opportunity, boom, you'rean investor. That's how that
(03:44):
happens.
Craig Evans (03:44):
Yep.
Kaaren Hall (03:45):
So, a 401(k) or an employer plan. It's, we call
them ERISA plans, even thoughERISA covers really all
retirement plans. But we callthose ERISA plan, could be a
401(k), a 403(b), a 457, a TSP,different names for employer
accounts. Now, traditionally,those accounts have not allowed
(04:07):
alternative assets, and in fact,they just don't, you know for
the most part. Now, you can goto the next layer, to a defined
benefit plan, and definedbenefit plans do, that's going
into another world. But here'ssomething really interesting.
We're in a new world. We've gota new president or, you know,
2.0 you know.
Craig Evans (04:27):
Yep.
Kaaren Hall (04:29):
Well, one of the things that he's talking about
is allowing alternative assetsin your employer plan, huh?
Craig Evans (04:39):
Really?
Kaaren Hall (04:40):
Yeah. And let's see if that happens. Wouldn't that
be fine, like syndications inyour employer plan?
Craig Evans (04:46):
Yeah.
Kaaren Hall (04:46):
So, that may happen. That is something that
could be on the horizon. Earlydays, you know, I think what are
we not even a month into it bythe time we're broadcasting
right now.
Craig Evans (04:55):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (04:56):
But we'll see what happens. I mean, if you can, you
know, self direct or invest inalternative assets, personally,
why not with your employeraccount? Now, the reason before,
the reasoning is that, well,you're not a sophisticated
investor. If you, you know, ifyou are working for a company,
you're, what you'resophisticated in is doing your
job. You haven't become asophisticated investor yet. And
(05:18):
so alternative assets, I mean,you really do want to know what
you're talking about here. Youwant to understand the asset
class. It's not just a one sizefits all. So I kind of diverted
off your question. So let meknow if I that properly.
Craig Evans (05:32):
Yeah, no, no, and that's why I was letting you go,
because I will you wereanswering a lot of things. These
are all things that I want ourpeople to hear. So, for that
person that's had their job for10, 15, 20 years, whatever it
is, right? And they've got agreat 401(k), they got cash
stacked away in that, it'sturning it's in, you know, in
(05:53):
the market, doing things, canthey turn a 401(k) into a self
directed IRA?
Kaaren Hall (05:59):
Absolutely, right.
You can. Now, if you still workfor that employer, you may not
be able to move that money, butwith the 401(k), you can go to
your plan administrator, whichisn't your HR company, you know,
your HR department. It's thelike fidelity. It's whoever's
running the plan, the companythat the custodian of that plan.
Craig Evans (06:17):
Sure.
Kaaren Hall (06:18):
Ask, 'Hey, can I get an in service transfer?'
Craig Evans (06:22):
Okay.
Kaaren Hall (06:22):
Yeah, yeah. And then if they say, yes, you can
move that money.
Craig Evans (06:26):
And so then, you know, like in that situation,
they reach out to you, you guyshelp them set up a self directed
account, and they're moving thatmoney to you now, correct?
Kaaren Hall (06:37):
That's right, and they're moving it into their
account. And when they do,they're, you know, we've got a
really robust platform, and it'svery easy to understand things
are digital. We didn't startthat way, but we're digital now,
and I love it.Really is helpful.
And then they can choose theasset classes that they wish to
invest. That's what we callourselves uDirect. You know,
we're not telling them what toinvest in. The account holders
(06:58):
choosing like you u-Haul, youknow, they're not moving,
they're not moving yourfurniture, and you're holding
it. But they give you thevehicle to move, you know, to
move your your furniture. Well,we give you the vehicle to move
your retirement into differentasset classes.
Craig Evans (07:15):
If you've got real estate inside of a self directed
I mean, you know, let's face it,most of everybody that's
watching this is really probablyfocusing on this from a real
estate perspective. If you gotreal estate in it, whether you
own it wholly, or whether youhave some debt service on it,
what can the real estate dowithin the IRA, within that self
directed IRA?
Kaaren Hall (07:36):
Right. Real Estate, I think it well, I know, is the
foundation of almost all theassets that people invest in,
there are a few exceptions, likecryptocurrency or precious
metals, but almost all the otherassets have real estate as
underlying. You know,underlying, like a note. A lot
(07:57):
of times notes are on realestate syndications are created
so that someone can build apiece of commercial real estate,
you know, so real estate. Butsay, if you have a house and,
you know, like, what can you doto manage that? Is that what
you're asking?
Craig Evans (08:13):
Well, yeah, I mean, as I'm looking through that, you
know, what are the options oncethat the asset is in that class
and is in that account. Youknow, what are the options you
can do with that? I mean, canyou sell? Can you hold? Can you,
you know, can you 1031 insidethat? I mean, so many things I
was thinking about is, what canhappen inside that, inside that
(08:36):
account?
Kaaren Hall (08:37):
Yeah, you wouldn't 1031, 1031 is, obviously refers
to tax code. You know, that'sthe tax code 1031 like all these
numbers do, but with 1031 it's away to avoid paying tax on the
sale. Well, in a self directedIRA, it's already in the tax
protected kind of little bubble.
Craig Evans (08:52):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (08:53):
So, not really 1031 with the self directed IRA, but
yeah, you can, you know, buy,sell, you can, but what you
can't do is offer services tothe plan, which means you can't
go swinging the hammers. You canoffer sweat equity. So, if your
IRA owns a house, you're notgoing to, you know, replace that
water heater. You're not goingto do things like that. You can
(09:13):
hire third parties to do it.
Craig Evans (09:15):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (09:15):
But you're not going to be doing that yourself.
But there are just so manydifferent ways to invest with,
again, with real estate beingthe underlying asset, whether
it's somebody else managing itin syndication, or with you
having a separate property,hiring third party vendors,
hiring maybe a property manager,but you can still screen the
(09:35):
tenants, pick up and collecttheir rent checks, send it to
the IRA, right? You can haveother people fix things and
select the tenants. You canscreen the tenants, but just
make sure that all of, this is abig thing. This is like a common
mistake, when you have a selfdirected IRA real estate or
whatever, make sure that theproceeds go back in the IRA that
(09:57):
owns the asset. And sometimessyndicators will write the check
to you and send it to youpersonally. Do not cash that
check. Prohibited transactionblows the tax protected bubble
of your IRA. So, if you get acheck made payable to you for an
asset that your IRA owns, callthem up or whatever, mail the
(10:18):
check back. Say, Please recutthis check, make it payable to
my IRA, because they you do notwant to commit a prohibited
transaction by, you know, takingthe proceeds from an IRA owned
asset.
Craig Evans (10:27):
It was interesting, you mentioned notes. So, can you
do, can you use hard money outof that and invest in notes for
real estate, that type ofprocess?
Kaaren Hall (10:40):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And, it's super popular to
be the bank with an IRA, andpeople love securing secured
loans, because, isn't it to thebest of all worlds? I mean, for,
especially for a retirementaccount, it's passive. It's, of
course you want to, you've gotto do loan servicing, and you
can hire a third party loanservicer if you need to go and,
like, collect on a loan. Butyour IRA is like a bank. And I
(11:03):
think that's one of the thingsthat really got self directed.
IRAs started or rekindled in2009 as you remember, you
couldn't borrow money if youalready had, like, X number of
properties, you couldn't get aloan. And that's when savvy
investors, real estateinvestors, realize, 'hey, I can
borrow money from someone'sIRA.' And this is a big pot,
(11:25):
like, right now, it's somethinglike $40 trillion worth of
capital. I can tap into thiscapital, get money for my deal,
borrow money from people's IRAs,and, you know, build my
commercial building, you know,invest in my single family home.
I can get a loan. And it doesn'teven have to be for real estate.
It could be maybe you'restarting a business and you need
(11:46):
to raise capital. A lot ofpeople lost their businesses in
the recession and with COVID,and you're rebuilding, and you
need capital to rebuild yourbusiness. Well, hey, if somebody
has an IRA or a 401(k) from aprevious employer boom, they
could invest in your business.
And so that is something you canapproach people about. 'Hey, do
you have an IRA? Do you have a401(k)?,' if you do, you can
(12:06):
invest in my business. You caninvest in my deal. So, notes and
lending are a very, verypowerful part of self directed.
Craig Evans (12:16):
Okay, well, then you know that's obviously with
The Norris Group, we do hardmoney lending, right? We have
trusted investors that invest inthat. So, that's interesting. I
mean, literally, I'm learningstuff from you, as much as I
hope our audience is. I'm lovingthat I get to pick up nuggets
from you, you know. So, I knowwe've done some deals, and
(12:37):
you've answered a little bit ofthis with the syndication
aspect. But so just to clarify,someone that has self directed
accounts, they can invest inprivate equity or syndications
of certain deals, correct?
There's nothing legally thatwould borrow them from that,
correct?
Kaaren Hall (12:53):
That's right, because, again, the ERISA laws
were passed 50 years ago. It'sthe 50th anniversary of the IRA,
Happy anniversary. But they,when it would have passed, they
just said an IRA can't invest inlife insurance contracts and
collectibles. So, all theseasset classes are okay, you
know? And it's a lot of it iswhat a custodian will custody.
(13:14):
For example, your IRA couldinvest in a racehorse, because
that's an investment, but it'slike for us, it's an asset that
we choose not to custody. Itdoesn't mean you couldn't find
someone out there, paysomething, play a different
company, enough money to holdthat asset, you know, or to
allow that asset class.
Craig Evans (13:31):
Sure.
Kaaren Hall (13:32):
But, but, yeah. But anyway, as long as it's not life
insurance contracts andcollectibles, you can pretty
much do it.
Craig Evans (13:38):
What do you see is probably the biggest mistake
that investors make with theirself directed IRA?
Kaaren Hall (13:44):
I think the most, yeah, I it has to do with
acquiring property and thinkingthat the IRA is the down payment
on the house, but thinking of itfrom the traditional residential
real estate mindset. And I comefrom that mindset, you know, I,
like I said, I was in mortgage along time, and residential real
(14:04):
estate a long time. But when wepersonally buy a house, yeah, we
have a down payment, and then wego to a bank, we get a Fannie,
Freddie, FHA, VA, conventional,conforming kind of a loan. But
the retirement world is similar,but different. So, if your IRA
is going to buy a single family,house first, it has to be non
(14:25):
owner occupied. You can neveroccupy or have personal use of
an asset that an IRA owns. So,it's definitely going to be non
owner occupied first, and thenyour IRA is going to get a non
recourse loan. And that nonrecourse loan is going to be
some percentage. Now, these nonrecourse lenders are going to
(14:46):
ask for more skin in the game,not like when we buy a house.
Maybe you put 5% down. A nonrecourse lender is going to want
to put maybe 50% comes from theIRA, 50% comes from the law. So
that's something you want todiscuss with a non recourse
lender. And by the way, I'llmention that if any of the
listeners would like a list ofnon recourse lenders, because
(15:06):
it's kind of hard to find them,we've put together a list. I
mean, not a people that wenecessarily endorse, but just
for the convenience of you knowof your audience. And so you can
hit me up atinfo@udirectira.com, and I'll
shoot you that list.
Craig Evans (15:20):
Yeah, finding, finding non recourse for certain
situations, is not the easiesttask sometimes, so. You know,
every year we've got changes orpotential changes to regulation
in this space. What do you seeas the biggest item that you
guys as a brand, as a company,are focused on right now?
Kaaren Hall (15:37):
Yeah, well, we went through a lot of change since
2019 when we had the SECURE Act1.0 come out. And one of the big
things that changed is RMD agewent from 70 and a half to 72 I
think, or 71, anyway, it changedbecause of the SECURE Act 2.0
that was passed at the end of2022. Now, the RMD required
(15:59):
minimum distribution, that ageis 73 so that's something to
change. There are other thingsthat changed. But because there
was so much change betweenSECURE Act 1.0, 2.0,
Washington's going to prettymuch leave the retirement
account alone. Yay. For a littlewhile. I've been in the industry
17 years, and there hasn't beena lot of change and then, you
(16:20):
know, these two secure actsreally rocked our world in
creating some change, becauseit's been so placid and
unchangeable. But one of thebig, big changes with SECURE 2.0
that really impacts us is that,you'll love this, with a step in
a simple IRA, now you can makeRoth contributions to these
accounts, that just, you know,we think of a SIMPLE lower SEP
(16:46):
IRA being like a traditionalIRA, where you're making, you
know, pre tax contributions. Inother words, like you make a
contribution to a SEP and youcan take a deduction, as opposed
to Roth contributions, where youmake a contribution, it's after
tax. But then that investment,or any all those proceeds, grow
tax free for life. So, you canmake a Roth contribution now to
(17:07):
a SEP or a SIMPLE IRA. Now I'lltell you what the IRS hasn't
been super quick on, orDepartment of Treasury, which
you know the IRS is under,haven't been super quick and
providing us a whole lot ofguidance on that, even though
it's like what, you know, to atleast sell it two years later.
We're still waiting on someguidance on this, but that's one
of the big changes that occurredin the space.
Craig Evans (17:29):
Well, you know, it's probably because maybe they
don't have enough agents yet tobe able to do all that. Is that,
right?
Kaaren Hall (17:40):
We talked to the Department of Treasury. I'm on
the board for RITA, theRetirement Industry Trust
Association. So we have an eventin DC. It's coming up on here
pretty quick. We go everyspring, and the Department of
Treasury comes to the meeting.
We sit down, and they talk to uson a panel, and then we ask them
questions, 'when are we going toget more guidance on the Roth
contributions to the SEPs &SIMPLEs, and they're like, this
(18:00):
isn't like, it's top of mind forus. It's not necessarily top of
mind for them. So, we've saidthat's really going to move the
needle for a lot of people. Sowe would love some guidance,
son, and so that it's nice to beable to actually talk to the
Department of Treasury.
Craig Evans (18:15):
Can you move money from a from a Roth into a
Self-Directed?
Kaaren Hall (18:22):
Yeah, absolutely so. So, like a typical Roth
that's invested in stocks, thenyou've got a self directed Roth.
A Roth is a Roth the same rulesabout, you know, contributions,
the way the money comes in, theway it goes out, but self
directed just means it's adifferent asset class in the
plan.
Craig Evans (18:38):
Okay.
Kaaren Hall (18:39):
You can move money from a Roth IRA to a Roth self
directed IRA, just a straighttransfer.
Craig Evans (18:44):
You've been doing this for a while, you know, a
day or two. What do you see asprobably the most meaningful
change in this industry sinceyou began? Good or bad.
Kaaren Hall (18:58):
Yeah, the changes have been good, because, as I
mentioned earlier, the thebipartisan support for
retirement savings. So, what Ithe changes I've seen have all
supported retirement savings. Solike, for example, contribution
limits have increased over theyears. That's positive. And as
(19:18):
my company, one of the bestthings that's happened for us is
going from pretty analog todigital. That's been a huge
change. A few years ago, we hada giant change in our platform,
making things just so much morestreamlined and easy for our
account holders. Just astechnology develops, we've been
able to grow with that and makethings simpler and more
efficient, and it makes theprocess run a lot smoother. So,
(19:42):
you know, like the year overyear, we've doubled the number
of accounts are that we openlike from the previous year to
the, you know, to the followingyear. But we haven't had to hire
extra staff because of thedigital nature of our system. So
that's been a huge breakthroughfor us as a company.
Craig Evans (20:00):
So, I want to jump into something, hopefully you
won't get too uncomfortableabout it. But I want to give you
a little bit of chance to bragon you a little bit, right? So
you just wrote and publishedyour book, walk me through...
Kaaren Hall (20:12):
I just happen to have a copy with me, let me brag
about it, okay.
Craig Evans (20:15):
You just happen to have a copy there. So, yeah, I
saw those stacked on thebookshelves back there. How did
that come about for you? Andwhat was your passion? Because,
listen, that's not a quickprocess, and you've already got
a full plate. So, what was yourpassion that drove you to say,
'Man, I want to write a book,but I wanted to mean something
(20:36):
other than just having my nameon a paper.'
Kaaren Hall (20:39):
Well, yes, yeah, and I want my peers to read it
and say, 'Oh, wait, yeah, that'smeaningful,' yeah.
Craig Evans (20:44):
Yeah.
Kaaren Hall (20:45):
Well, it started about 10 years ago, you know. I
don't know if you know GeneTrowbridge. He is a well known
securities attorney.
Craig Evans (20:51):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (20:52):
And said, 'Hey, Karen, I'm writing a book. I
want you to write the chapter.'And, 'hey, why don't you write?'
So, Gene was super encouragingand inspirational, inspired me
to start this. So, there havebeen four or five iterations of
this book, and then about 2020,Bigger Pocket said, 'hey, we'd
(21:13):
really like for you to write abook for us'. I said, 'Oh,
that's great'. So, I at thattime, I already had a beautiful
manuscript, like formattedeverything, pretty much ready to
go. I mean, it still needed sometweaking, but so I gave them
that manuscript, and then theylooked at it for a while, and
then, you know, back and forth,and it didn't happen
instantaneously. And then theysaid, 'Yeah, we're not going to
(21:35):
publish this book.' I go, well,you know, that's showbiz, right?
So now, today is February 2025,it was September 2024 when they
called me and said, 'Hey, Karen,we want to do that book now.' We
already have your manuscript.
It's ready to go. Let's go andlike, 'Okay, we need it by
November' it's like two monthsto, because a lot has happened
(21:57):
since 2020, right.
Craig Evans (22:00):
Oh yeah.
Kaaren Hall (22:01):
SECURE 1.0, 2.0, and then rewrite it. Plus we
collaborated on it. So, itwasn't just me writing it. It
was writing it from theperspective of a real estate
investor. So, to totally rewritethe book, they were lovely to
work with. Their editing processwas genius. They would read,
read and say, Hey, why don't youwrite? You know, 'you say this,
(22:23):
but, tell me why?' Like thingsthat like, I know in my head, I
already know the why, but maybeI'm not thinking of the reader.
So, they would say 'the readeris going to want to know why, or
just elaborate on this.' So theediting process was really
wonderful, just working withsome lovely people over there,
and we got the whole thing puttogether. And I just thought,
(22:44):
oh, is this really going tohappen? Because, you know,
delays and things, but, I mean,I'm holding this book in my
hand. I can't believe, it was along road. Super grateful to the
wonderful people at BiggerPockets who published the book.
Craig Evans (22:58):
So, alright, so be so Bigger Pockets published.
Where, where can we get it? Howdo you get this book?
Kaaren Hall (23:03):
You can go on Amazon. Yeah, yeah. Amazon.com.
Is where you can find it, andyou can get it there. You could
also get it at Bigger Pockets,biggerpockets.com/sdira, self
directed IRA, SDIRA. So, youcould find it on the Bigger
Pocketswebsite or on Amazon, andplease write a review. Yay.
(23:23):
That's, I guess we need thesereviews. It's a thing in
publishing, you have to have areview.
Craig Evans (23:29):
So, last thing you know, from a local perspective
for you, I want people to hear,okay, you've got OCREIA. How do
they get involved with you? Howdo they find you? How to get
involved and be able to learnfrom you on a regular basis?
Kaaren Hall (23:45):
Right. So, being in the self directed IRA seat and
knowing so many asset sponsors,I'm able to cultivate this and
bring in people who can teachothers about real estate
investing. I think early on inthis interview, you were asking
me about, like, how does someonestart? Like, where do you even
start this thing? And this isone thing about OCREIA. So, you
(24:08):
it's O-C,-R-E-I-A.com, go to ourwebsite. We have a meeting at
the second Thursday of everymonth, and we'll maybe they're
on Zoom or in person. But, youknow, join the meeting, listen,
because someone's going to beteaching you likewhen Bruce, he
and Bruce has spoken on Zoom andin person, he's going to talk
about, first off, his brillianthistory of real estate
investing, which is soinspiring, or maybe like
(24:31):
someone's going to talk tonightabout multi family investing,
Keystone, CPA, Matt and Amanda,come on. They talk about, once
you've invested and you've gotthis money, what do you do with
it? How do you keep it? How doyou not lose it to taxes? We'll
have 1031 exchange people comein and talk about how to do the
1031 you know. And so, I saw youthat you interviewed Bill
(24:54):
Exeter. So he, you know, Bill,could, you know, talk to you
about that. And so we had bringdifferent people on so you can
learn all the different aspectsof this giant thing called real
estate investing.
Craig Evans (25:05):
I know it said, you know, OCREIA is the last one,
but it's not. I got one more toask, so.
Kaaren Hall (25:11):
Okay.
Craig Evans (25:12):
The biggest one, how do people get in touch with
you? Get involved with uDirect,you know. How do we start
changing their life by gettingto know you guys and learn how
you can help them affect theirfuture.
Kaaren Hall (25:27):
Right. Well, call us, you know, we are. We have a
toll free number, which Ihaven't memorized, but hit us up
with an email. That's really thebest way info@udirectira.com and
that's the best way, because mywhole staff gets that email, and
we'll be able to answer youstraight away. You know, email
your questions to us. You know,tell us your scenario, or just
(25:47):
go to our websiteudirectira.com, hit, you know,
contact us, and then that'swhere our calendar schedule and
appointment, and then you'llhave an appointment at your
convenience, where we'll callyou. And let's talk about what
you want to do. Is it aprohibited transaction? How do
you do it? What kind of accountdo you have? Can you move it?
Can't you move it? And answerall your questions.
Craig Evans (26:09):
Well, Kaaren, it has been a pleasure to have you
on. It's always so good to seeyou. Thank you for all you've
done for me over the last yearsince I've taken over The Norris
Group. You being a part of ourevent last year, in July or June
rather, and looking forward todo a lot more with you.
Hopefully, maybe and get out anddo some stuff with you and
(26:30):
OCREIA sometime, would love to,but it is a pleasure having you
on today. Thank you for pouringyour knowledge into everybody
that listens to us.
Kaaren Hall (26:39):
Thank you.
Craig Evans (26:40):
Thanks so much.
Listen, everybody thanks so muchfor having, being on today, and
we will see you next time.
Narrator (26:47):
For more information on hard money loans, trust deed
investing, and upcoming eventswith The Norris group. Check out
thenorrisgroup.com. For moreinformation on passive investing
through the DBL Capital RealEstate Investment Fund, please
visit dblapital.com.
Joey Romero (27:06):
The Norris Group originates and services loans in
California and Florida underCalifornia DRE license 01219911.
Florida mortgage lender license1577 and NMLS license 1623669.
For more information on hardmoney lending go to
thenorrisgroup.com and click thehard money tab.
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