February 27, 2025 • 48 mins
Amie Wells, Rhett Bryan, and Dave McGinnis dig in deeper with NFL Network's Cynthia Frelund and the Athletic's Dane Brugler on the OTP, presented by Farm Bureau Health Plans.
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
This is the OTP presented by Farm Bureau Health Plans.
Far Bureau is for those who make plans for everything
except themselves. We make it easy and affordable for Tennesseeans
who don't have a group or employer plan.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Visit FBHP dot com.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
To learn more. Thank you for tuning into this edition
of the OTP. We are still here in Indianapolis. We're
not done yet, and we have more conversations that we
want to share with you, and the first one is
Cynthia Freeland. Now, Cynthia Freeland, you have seen on NFL Network.
You've seen her do all kinds of analytics and tell
(00:47):
you who to put in your fantasy football lineup, or
who you should be making bets on, or why someone
ran really faster or jump super high. She is one
of the smartest people that we know and we are
so excited whenever we get the chance to talk to
her and wow. Her insights, well they're just amazing. So
this is our conversation with NFL Networks Cynthia Freeland. All right,
(01:10):
Cynthia Friedland from NFL Network. We are so happy to
have you here.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Always good to hang out with you.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Always our favorite conversation because you have such a unique perspective.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Or weird I think that happens here.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
No, you're weird.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It is not weird. It's exciting.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
And I think that there's so many cool things about
what you do, the way that you are able to
approach events, even like this here at the combine, where
there's a lot of data, a lot of information coming
at us.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Fake and send this one though, But we just need
to figure.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Out what it all means. Not a lot, not a lot.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
If they've already done the things that mean the most.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, yeah, but still there are numbers that we are
researching that need to be ingested and communicated.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
And that's what you're here for.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Yes, So when you're looking at all the prospects, especially
you know, today's an interesting day tomorrow when the quarterbacks,
so it will be interesting as well. None of these drills.
It's all about range as coach. I'm I'm looking to you.
Make sure keep me honest here, but all I will absolutely.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Let me just say this. What you do is really good.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
See I told you it's so much right there.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
It's legit. It is legit, and people that really want
to open up their minds about what this is because
I mean, I've been doing this for a long time
and it's different. It's different, but it's relevant.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Thank you. So go ahead and try really hard on that.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Because the point is is like, there's a lot of
ways you could say the same thing, right, and there's
no the broadcast. Sometimes you're watching a game, right, it'll
be like Titan's game, They'll be like, oh, the analytics
say go for it, And there's not just like this
one analytics czar that's being like, you must go for it,
Like that's not how it works, Like it's you know,
what's your strategy?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Do you you know the Super Bowl is a place, right?
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Do you want to give Patrick Mahomes the ball back
kick three points and give it back to you on
the forty or do you want to make him go
ninety yards with your defense? If you're the egos, that's
the cat and I'm not the one making that decision.
But that's the way to look at the that's the
way to approach the problem. You can make your own decision.
But don't there's no analytics. Say who is the analytics?
Where are they?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I don't know who is analytics?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Yeah, but here is the same thing, right when you're
watching everyone, even the forties, which are super fun, very
hard to do. You know, you forget that these guys
like you know, this is a lot of interviews and
it's a lot of like following rules and like being
in like you must go here, be shuttled there, talk
to these five people.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Do these fifteen interviews? Talk to it like it's a
lot of.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Like like the ritual of the combine and like, don't
be a jerk, be one of the guys. Like there's
a lot going on here. So to be able to
perform at such a high level, that's part of it,
and that's part of what you're really being tested on.
So if you do run, as long as you're within
the ranges that are relevant to your position, that's great.
It kind of verifies everything we've seen on tape from you,
(03:46):
and you know, we can move on with our evaluation.
If you do something crazy out of range, like you
run really really fast or you run really really slow,
it causes people to go back and double check their work.
You just don't want to be one that goes back
and double check their work for the bad stuff. You
want like why did you run?
Speaker 6 (04:02):
So, like what's going on?
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Are you hurt like all, you just kind of want
you want to you want interview super well. You want
to do the things that are great, and you know
certain drills, the position specific drills like look at people's footwork,
you know, on the three condrel I'm an offensive line person,
you know, Russ grim that was the whole reason I
did my whole stupid mas he owes me money.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
Well, let me let me just say this. I know
Russ very well, just like you do.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
He told me nothing, what I could do whatever be
interesting to him, and then I spent a whole master's
degree game.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
Well, hearney, it's good that he owes you money because
he's got it. I know, so get.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
It, sir, sir, My student loans are still being paid.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Can we can help here?
Speaker 4 (04:41):
But no, but but but that's like, you know, it's
like when you're watching the three condrals, watch the speed
of their feet, watch like if they're getting you can
see it with your eyes. You don't necessarily need something
as advanced as what I use for it. If they
look like they're kind of swaying and their balance is wrong,
probably not good moving laterally, it's not you know, it's it.
It doesn't need to be perfect for what outside when
(05:02):
you're watching, like, I like this offensive why his feet
are good, his balance looks good, his base is wide,
he keeps his feet moving like.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
There's just some things right.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
But if you can do that and be fast at
the three con drow, for example, then you're probably good.
This is not a very strong O line class. I
will say that, at least on tape from college.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
It's not. But maybe someone will impress me and I'll
have to go back and check my work.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
What's interesting with this for the Tennessee Titans where we're sitting,
is that.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Is that Travis Hunter better be in your team because
I love him.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, that's your guy. I mean, yes, I don't want
to make you pick favorites right now.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
I'm draft I Alrea did a mock draft and I
was like, you must take him, okay, and you must
make him play wide receiver.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
We're going to ask you about that.
Speaker 7 (05:41):
You need to see this mock draft for everybody watching
the YOURTP that loves mox Cynthia has a different level
in this thing because her mox Cynthia Freeland dot com
and fl dot com on YouTube, the Numbers game and
her caveats are no trades, and then there's also the
free agency part of this that's factored in. And so
it's no secret you have told us Travis Hunter is
(06:04):
the pick that you had for the Titans at one.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Why yes, well, number one. The number of snaps that
this guy played, one hundred and twelve snaps. That's like
he's basically played two college full college seasons in one season,
so you have less of that like rookie falling off
the and when. By the way, not this year, but
we're going to eighteen games, so that's going to be
increasingly more important. So this guy's played the stamina and
his fatigue level, so play one to play one hundred
(06:28):
and twelve or snap one hundred and twelve for him.
He really doesn't get the level of fatigue. I don't
know if he's human. He might be a robot.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
On board with robots, pretty sure, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
But he does not lose the speed.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
The change of direction speed is one of the first
to go and you're tired, usually in the fourth quarter, No, sir,
like he's I don't even I'm not sure what he's eating.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
I need to find out.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
It's good right, but but ultimately he's a really special player.
And no shade against quarterbacks, I have no you know,
I think they're all great people like I hope all
of them succeed.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I want everyone to be good.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
I would love every all thirty two teams to be
great and every game be like all chess, you know,
like and not injuries. But that's just not the case.
It's really hard to evaluate these two specific quarterbacks. To me,
the best one is cam Ward. That's what I have,
and he ranks like he would be fourth in last
year's class.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
So that's consistent with what we've heard kind of across
the board.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
A lot of it is in a lot of it
is incomplete resumes. I don't know they because of the
transfer we're in this weird bubble with like the end
of the like the transfer portal nil situation. They're not
playing advanced concepts in college right now because everyone keeps
moving around.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
I'm so glad to hear you say that. Yes, I
mean I've evaluated.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
For a while, like like maybe ten years.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Yeah, but times four now that you've mentioned that, it could,
I mean, you're dialed in when you don't have a
complete body of work at one place in one system.
Used to could you know when I was evaluating Jake
Plumber to draft him when I was the head coach
of the Cardinals. Yep, I had all that time at
Arizona State to look at it. You have all these
now just your point with them moving like that, How
(08:13):
does that affect what you do? Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
It makes it like the variance goes from here to there.
That's right, Like that's what I'm meaning.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
And you know what else it really messes up. That's
like the unintended consequences, O lineman, because find me a
pulling guard.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
I dare you?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Like?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Well, hello, Like they just don't do that anymore.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
They don't have time to get to level two and
three in many of these places because these guys it's
a different quarterback or it's a different this where they
have too many players moving team to team. Sore the
wide receivers here and they was there and now you
can do this. You have to keep it simple.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
This makes so much sense, though. Think about the young
player I'm having. I'm having a little bit of like
a revolution right now. Think about the young players that
we have seen in the last two three ish years.
Think about where they've struggled. Just think in your brain,
all of the young players you've seen that haven't really
(09:04):
clicked until like week eight, week nine, Why are they struggling?
Because these are advanced concepts in football. We're not flashing
you pictures and colors on the sidelines. You're not looking
at your armband to match the color to the thing.
You have to communicate this with your mouth to the
people around you, and you haven't had a chance to
do that because you've played for five different schools. Oh yeah,
(09:27):
my gosh, it makes so much sense. And then coaches
have to dumb down what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Oh and by the way, the kids who didn't here
and listen.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
I'm not a psychologist, but the psychology of it. When
I talk to some of the psychologists, they have not
been coached the same way. Like I went to Boston College.
Matthias q Nuka is one of my best friends to
this day. They were coached hard at BC, and that's
part of what Matthias credits to his transformation from a
guy who was a red shirt freshman to a first
(09:56):
round draft pick. And part of it was like there
was just like and they kind of can't do that now.
Because the kids are like peace up going to the portal, like, yeah,
you know, it's it's a lot less of a commitment
than it was before. They have more power and maybe
they had too little power before. Maybe it wasn't right before.
And I think they should have gotten paid. But I
think their employees, I don't know what we'll getting into it.
I think their employees think they should have to sign
(10:17):
a contract. Their adults, like, if they're getting paid a
lot of money, they should say, like, I'm going to
be here for at least this amount of time.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I'm an adult.
Speaker 6 (10:25):
Treat me as such.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
Say the fact that did you bring the psychology part
of it into it? I mean, that's that's really important
because at the end of the day, it's still a
people business. And I and again in my career, i've
seen it change the way that you approached these players.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
And they look at you like this.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Now, I know you guys are it's an audio medium,
but no, you know, it's like down down here, down here,
down here, Like I'm like, I'm like.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Hi, it's nice to meet you.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
I'm gonna do it. Here are the questions when I'm interviewing. Here,
here are the questions I'm going to answer, ask you
how does it feel to be here today? I mean
these are easy, Like I'm not asking them like spy,
let's talk about quantum physics, not doing that, so you know,
it's like but they're and they're looking down and it's
like this pendulum eyes thing and I'm like, I'm not
there's what I'm up here, you know, And it's like right, yeah,
(11:11):
And so like if I were like a like I'm
and I tell agents like talk work on eye contact,
worked on, like don't let them use their scrip, like
I think they're addicted to screens and like they don't
want to take it, like they're thinking about when they
can pull their phone out again. Like I don't know,
maybe a'vegain I'm not a psychologist, but I'm like, look
me in the eye, sit down, and be patient and present.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
It's very weird just think about what I'm saying in
answer to the question.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
But it's it's much harder to learn.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Maybe maybe you adapt then and like create a full
video game style to teach them the playbook, but like
I don't know if that's the way to do it either,
Like maybe you meet somewhere in the middle I'm not sure,
but it's different. They're so it's so different. They don't drink,
they don't party. They like do party other things, but
like not, it's very different.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
It's very different. We drank beer.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
And the other thing is that the real there's real
money involved now, yeah, I mean real money.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Real money used to be the.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
Real money didn't come in until you were in this lead.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
That's right.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
Now they've got real money. If they're really a dude,
they've got real money. After the first year.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Do you know what I would have bought when I
was nineteen?
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Yeah, and probably that's good things a lot when you
factor that in too, I mean, does that does that
factor into your thinking with your stuff too?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
I'm my new like my think my next iteration of
how I model I really want to do, like the psychology,
like I want to be like I think, I want
to like take some more more classes.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
This is where Russ Oh, no, my bank account.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
I don't need another degree, but I'd like to take
a class in like psychology, like the psychology of like
you know, technology, and like where we are right now,
like people are so afraid of AI and what that means,
like and like this this fear of it, and I
want to understand a little bit more about the psychology
around that, because I think like there's ways to you know,
you have to kind of adapt and adopt modern things
(12:58):
otherwise you get smoked by them. So you know, these
things happening, but I would like to know the psychology
of all of it, Like I'm very curious about that.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
I'd like to factor that. It's very hard to.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Create a model with what people think, but it would
be good to know because then when you're looking at exceptions,
you can say, what am I seeing here? Is this
an exception or is this a trend that's fascinating.
Speaker 7 (13:20):
Cynthia, I'm so glad you said that because I wrote
down this question. I said, where does AI fit into
the expansion of analytics in the National Football League?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
In your opinion, I think it's the same thing.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
So to me, in general, the good information in good
information out, bad information in bad information out. Now we
have the horsepower to have a lot more information in
a faster pace. So in a few years ago, you
could maybe watch four games before you know you have
to do your install for your next game and whatever.
Now you can watch a lot or pieces of certain things.
(13:53):
But if you're not looking at the right pieces, it
thoes don't really matter if you can spend a lot
of time watching the wrong stuff. But I think a
little bit of a gut check and a little bit
of like the you know, the Devil's advocate. It's I
think people are very bad at giving critiques nowadays, like
you have like it's one thing to take criticism, it's
another thing to be able to give it. And if
if I know my if I'm a tight ends coach
(14:13):
and I know my offensive coordinator, is like not factoring
in something right. They don't feel empowered to say something right.
So it's about figuring out where where am I missing?
What hole am I missing? And how can data help
make me ten percent better? You don't need to go
one hundred percent, right, Like if you're if you were
ten percent better in every game you have seventeen games,
that's a one and a half games more wins. I
(14:34):
understand a half game doesn't happen, but they think about it, right,
like like over time that adds up if you make
ten percent better decisions. It's just like compound interests, right,
eight percent every year you double.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Your thing and whatever. So yeah, I'll stop talking about
math now.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
But yeah, no, no, but that that let me ask
you this, since you the inception of what you decided
when Russ funded all of yours, all Rush funded all.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Of America come in your way, Yeah, here we go.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
Have you have you experienced or do you feel any
more acceptance? Now?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (15:07):
See that's great.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
I've been. I've been.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
No.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Look, the thing about Rest that I liked was he
was never mean about it. He just he wasn't like
people have people get me like, you know, there's egos
in this league. You don't last as long as you've
been here without people being like just idiots and people
are super risk averse. A lot of the people that
we see in this the risk a version is an
epidemic proportion. They're You're like, oh, they're doing this to
(15:31):
save their job. I'm like, the when has that ever worked?
Speaker 5 (15:33):
Right?
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Like maybe three percent of the time, like something crazy.
So that, to me, the better way to frame things
would be like, this is the risk I'm comfortable with taking,
putting my chips on the table. I keep telling my
new strategy for coaches, especially coaches who are in a
position where like it feels like maybe their jobs on
the line. I'm like, you know you should do is
you should hire a professional gambler, not for gambling we
(15:54):
work at the NFL.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
But to teach you how to bluff.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Yeah, because they need a outside perspective on run a
different play. Everyone's very predictable in our league and their
risk a version is so high. So I think you
could bluff a little bit and you could gain this
edge of maybe four or five plays a game. Sixty games,
with sixty plays in a game, it's so pretty significant.
Just interesting stuffing, like, be a little different with it,
but make it make sense to what you're trying to do.
(16:18):
Don't be different for different sake. Be different with a purpose,
have a mission, have an identity, and then take that
and use analytics, use all the tools at your disposal
to make it make sense.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
Because see just the way you talk. If people would
sit down, and I know a lot of them do.
I mean, I'm not a decision maker in this league
anymore I used to be. But if they just sit
down and do this rather than saying I don't even
want to explore that as to where it makes.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
You, then they get their butt kicks by it. Well,
see Eagles see chiefs so radially when.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
You had to jump out there. You had to lay
this out there early without any idea as to how
it would be accepted. Am I right?
Speaker 6 (16:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I've worked in the league office.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
In two thousand and eight, I got a chance to
sit with the competition committee. Learned I just was like
really good at asking questions that I didn't know the
answer to.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Like what does the offful linebacker do here? Do you know?
What if you didn't call them? Do you know?
Speaker 4 (17:11):
And no one does? I didn't know that, like no
one knew. I thought everyone knew in the room. But
I just wasn't afraid to ask questions. But I asked
a question with a purpose. I want to know what
this off ball linebacker is doing, because is it impacting
whether or not the quarterback decides to hand the ball
off or take the ball himself or to throw Like
I did, I wanted to understand the decision science behind it,
because I understood that defense is all about It's a
decision tree. If I see this, it's not gonna be this.
(17:33):
You rule things out instead of like the offense gets
to pick what they're doing. The defense rules things out
as you as certain things.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
Say it did stop right there. That's exactly how you
teach dfans.
Speaker 6 (17:45):
Yeah, you don't.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
Play every play every snap. Now you eliminate what they're
not gonna do. Then you look at the way they
line up and you look at that. And that's the
way I got taught. Well when I listened, you did listen,
because when you're coaching, you say, you know our coach
linebackers for years, but.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I would be a mean safety.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
Get a hit. Well, well, because you would be. You
would be you would be smarter. You'd be smart enough
to get pre snap reads and telling the linebacker. The
biggest thing linebackers doing this is get ahead of the block.
Don't defeat the block. Get ahead of the block.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
It's angles. Everything is angles.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
But but you have to know what's come ye see this? Yeah,
we could talk for I love it.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
And my favorite part about like I loved being in
those rooms number one watching film in the dark with
the cowboy clicker, with the snacks. It's like the end swearing. Yeah,
there needs to do some good curse words in there,
Like that's really like I love LA. Of course I
got on air, oh yeah, certain Indianapolis GM on air
(18:50):
on ESPN went after me hard, and I held it
in until I got to the green room and I
was like, dang, and we and we've since made up.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
But he's a that that that one's that one's real
quick for.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
The OT people. When I first when I when I
stepped out of coaching and got it in broadcasting. Yeah,
I came and these two actually and Amy, they came
to me and said, coach back after they were scared
of me for a while loud, but then they and
then they they came and said, could.
Speaker 6 (19:16):
You teach us a little bit?
Speaker 5 (19:17):
So for one whole off season three hours a day.
I said, look, I don't need to practice my coaching.
I will as long as you'll take notes. And we're
gonna And I made Amy run the Cowboy clicker and
I would you know, I would just I would drill
her and I look over there and she got tears
coming to our rise. She said, I'm just so nervous.
I said, stop being nervous and start being productive.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I think what I said is I'm doing my best.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
But anyway, it was great because and I could just
see you that, yeah, I can take it all. Just
I want to learn.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Yeah, No, I I was very amenable. I also like,
I'm good with being wrong as long as I have
a good reason for being wrong. Yeah, you know, like
I'm not going to be like, so why is the
sky blue? Like that's stupid question asking, but like there
are stupid questions.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Right but there.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
But but like if you say, like you know, hey, coach,
what happened on play forty three? I don't understand this, yeah,
they will tell you because they're like, I'm like, I
don't know. The safety looked like it is here? Is
it a false levergy?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
What what is this? And look like now he actually
just read this wrong?
Speaker 5 (20:19):
So now people, now people. My whole point of this
is now people are more receptive.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
They are okay, yes.
Speaker 7 (20:26):
Yes, less dismissive. Dismissive is what? Yes, I know there's
a lot of people some visceral, but I think it
sounds like they were dismissive, like man, whatever that.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Is, Yeah, dismissive, But also like they they're like, how
can someone who's never played know anything about it? And listen,
don't let this, don't let this uh exterior fool you.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I would have been a mean safety.
Speaker 7 (20:48):
But yeah, as coach Mack would say, this was what
a coach would say, is like she has no water
in her buckets. She never did anything. I read like,
how are you going to tell you?
Speaker 5 (20:56):
How?
Speaker 6 (20:56):
I get that?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
I mean, and you're And the other thing is like
you just kind of got to like like every anything
else is like do I love this more than like
you're giving? Sometimes the negative feedback is good, like it
helped me be a better question asker or more concise
with my answers or more you know, it framed up
like I did learn something from that. That was feedback.
And now, to be fair, I didn't really like Twitter comments.
I wasn't really but the but the like the one
(21:19):
on one like I can see if someone's not like
if they're not getting it or they're being polite and
shaking their like I'm like, wait, do you do you
want to explain more? Like you know, it's like just
be open to that and put your.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Check your ego at the door.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
But seeing teams embrace it and continue to grow, I
mean analytics departments in the last.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
The Big Data.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Seventh Big Data BWL this season, yeah, over four hundred
people enter at the Big datable the five top teams
they can So every year we pick a topic.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Well, we don't.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Teams pick a topic and they ask a question that
they'd like answered with data. So this year is about
pre snap motion and the value of it. The funny
part is, and I love the league for this, they
give eight games of next gen stats, but from two
seasons ago, so literally we had like like some places
where like Marcedes Lewis was there, and these college teams
were like, what happened first? These people were born or
(22:08):
Marcedes Lewis started a lad But I just love that
they like sequester the good data, like you know, two
years whatever. So but these people come up with these
really great ideas and they've ended up turning into things
like expected rushing yards, which, by the way, the next
Gen stats aren't perfect, but what they do is provide
a good framework to look a year. Every year, Like,
for example, this year, we have the most expected rush
(22:31):
yards for running backs and for quarterbacks that we've ever
had since sexual assessment tracking, right, you know, for running
back it was four point two yards. For a quarterback
it was six yards. Past years it was like three
and a half and five point seven or something like
that before. So it just it's just been interesting to
see directionally how the big trends are moving. Now we
have a good defensive tackle class this year, is that
going to change? Like are we going to now stop
the run better? It's a pendulum. It swings back and
(22:52):
forth right as we know, so you know, it's just
directionally right. It gives us clues as to where to
look further. Because all I'm doing is, like if I'm
working for you, coach, I'm doing is trying to make
your life ten percent easier.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
See, And that's so great because when I came when
I come here now in this role, I always spend
at least two nights with position coaches saying, what's happening
in the league right now? Yep, what's happening? What is happening?
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Well, now everyone's looking for Zachmond and that like, who's
the guy we can transition into be an off ball linebackers?
Speaker 5 (23:21):
Before that?
Speaker 6 (23:22):
Good?
Speaker 5 (23:22):
And that's right, that's right, that's right to your point,
Trends change, Trends change, and that's why you know if
you keep up with it, but you've got to you've
got to investigate it, yep, rather than just say, oh, well,
you know this is what's happening. It's it's it's fascinating
and you're to be commended for what you do.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Thank you, I appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Make me for hanging out with us.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Nobody in the league loves to learn as much as Cynthia,
and we got it.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Russ Russ and Russ Bank account student loans.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Whether you're buying or selling tickets to a Titans game
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(24:21):
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back to the OTP. Dame Burglar from the Athletic thank
you so much for hanging out with us a little
bit here at the combine.
Speaker 8 (24:39):
Well, it's not the combines till I gets a chance
to talk to you guys, right, I mean exactly, this
is I don't know how many years we've done this
in a row, but a lot. It's working out. Let's
keep it going.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
It's a tradition, exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
So let's talk about this draft class of what makes
it unique, What has stood out to you as you've
been reviewing some of the tape.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
What are some of the trends that you're seeing.
Speaker 8 (24:58):
It's a really polarizing quarterback group, that's for sure. I'm
sure you guys uh know a little bit about that
with the number one overall pick. And then you know,
there's certain positions that are deep defensive lines, stacked running backs,
great tight ends, loaded, so uh, there are certain positions
that are just fun to study in this draft because
there's so many of these guys and they're all different.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
They offer something a little bit different.
Speaker 8 (25:20):
So understanding, try to understand, you know, what teams are
going to value, you know where they're gonna land in
the draft.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
It's it's a lot of fun. So uh.
Speaker 8 (25:28):
And then here at the combine, you know, it's a
lot the combines one big cross checking exercise, you know,
So like the Hayes in the barn we've watched the tape.
We you know, we know about these guys. Now it's
about just confirming what the tape says. You know, if
a guy's fast on tape, all right, let's see him
run a four four, you know, and if he doesn't,
then it's like, all right, we need to go back
and figure out did we miss something? You know, what's
(25:50):
what's the disconnect there? So the combine is a really
valuable tool for for me, for teams where you just
want to be able to cross check what your initial
evaluation says.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
In your evaluation, can you tell me why this is
a good year for the Titans to have the number
one pick in the draft?
Speaker 8 (26:06):
And I think it's debatable when you look at because
every draft has its own identity, you know, it's a
little bit different. Last year we had three guys at
the top that I think you would have been over
the moon drafting any of those top three quarterbacks come about,
Kayleb Williams, Jane Daniels, Drake May and I think all
three of them lived up to his rookies where maybe
it wasn't. Jane Daniels was phenomenal, but you know, Caleb
(26:28):
Williams wasn't perfect all the time, but you can at
least see where it's going. This year, it's not as
cut and dry. I think cam Ward from Miami is
the favorite to be the first quarterback drafted, whether that's
at one or maybe somewhere else in the top five.
You know, that's something that hopefully we get better sense
of here this week and then throughout the process. But
(26:50):
if the if the Titans decide, it's never a bad
year to have the number one pick because there's always
going to be someone at the top or someone that's
interests where. Okay, if you stick a pick and it's
not a quarterback, hey Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter, two really
dynamic players, cornerstone type of guys that are gonna make
your roster better. But there's also, you know, an interesting
(27:11):
quarterback or two at the top where your phone should
be ringing. So if I'm the Titans, I'm going through
this process giving off vibes like we're gonna take a
quarterback because that's just gonna help me. The teams behind us,
whether Giants, Raiders, whoever it may be, teams may be
a little bit more desperate for a quarterback. They're gonna
sick it up the ante if they're gonna give us
a call and say, hey, what do you think about
(27:32):
you know, a two in a three or whatever.
Speaker 6 (27:34):
It may end up being. So at the end of
the day, you just want options.
Speaker 8 (27:38):
And you know for a team like the Titans that
you know you have the number one pick for a reason.
So it's how are we going to get better? Not
just for twenty twenty five, but for the next three years,
four years. What is going the decisions we need to
do make right now that's going to put us on
a path to success. And you know, this is a
really interesting year to have a number one overall pick,
(27:59):
and it's a big opportun unity for this organization.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
You and I both were brought up in the scouting
world by.
Speaker 6 (28:04):
A legend, the legend, the legend, that's right.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
I mean, it's it's fun for me to talk to
you every year like this because I mean just so much.
Speaker 8 (28:14):
We could talk for hours about Coe and what he
meant for the league, for the scouting community, and and
for each of us individually. It's just it's really awesome.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
When CEO would talk about a player, and I was
in a lot of draft rooms with him for a
lot of h'd say, just give me a plus and
a minus on this guy. That's all I want to
That's all I want to hear. Do you still go
buy that? Just just give give me a bullet point?
Didn't like a lot of.
Speaker 6 (28:40):
Bs, right, that's absolutely right.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
Yeah, didn't like you to wander around? Uh c O,
I use this with rent C. Don't give me the
Charles Dickens novel on this dude. You know I want to.
I want some bullet points? Did you still is that
you still subscribe to that?
Speaker 8 (28:55):
I doubt, no doubt, because at the end of the day, like, yeah,
I can give you a manifesto about you know, a
player and all these different things, but sometimes we can
get too much in the weeds on these guys, you know,
like at the end of the day, what makes them
successful or what's a one area where you know, if
things get disrupted, it's because of this, And so no
(29:16):
doubt about it. Things I took away from CEO were
just to be succynct with your evaluations, and then also
just the importance of being observant. Sometimes being a scout
is just being observant, and you know, there's no such
thing as a genius scout or it's just it's about
being observant and the most the best scouts were always
the guys that were the most observant.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
There've been in a lot of draft rooms with him.
Were you know, somebody be reading the report and reading
the report and reading report and see what would.
Speaker 6 (29:42):
Slap the tape and go is he good or not?
Speaker 5 (29:46):
Yeah, I still don't know if he can play.
Speaker 7 (29:51):
Give me a couple of guys, because of course everybody
in the world knows about the Beast, and hats off
to you for that, because that is the gift of
the draft season every year. But give me a couple
of the guys that you think will will explode in
testing this week, Like Jihad Campbell is one of those,
yes from Alabama that I think will test here very well.
Speaker 8 (30:12):
Yeah, guy's a freak and he's interesting because he was
recruited as a pass rusher, but because they were kind
of stacked a pass rusher, they stood them up as
a linebacker and so the instincts aren't you know, they're developing,
they're working progress. He's not there yet, but he still
had one hundred and seventeen tackles this year. You don't
do that by you know, being a bad football player.
(30:34):
So the athleticism, the way he moves, the range. But
I think you know, my favorite tape was un is
getting after the quarterback? So how do you work that
into How does that work in your scheme? You know
how if you're going to draft a player like that,
you have to make sure your defensive coordinators on board with, Hey,
yeah he can do this, this and this, but he
gets after the quarterback. That's what he does really well.
Jalen Walker, same thing from Georgia, who a freak guy
(30:57):
with length and you know when they let him run,
he would get home. But can he be a true
edge rusher or you gonna play him off the ball.
So there are a few conversion guys. But back back
to your point about the guys that are gonna blow
up this year, no doubt about it. Campbell's one of them.
Nick em and Warry from South Carolina, the safety six
two and twenty five pounds and he'll he jumps, will
be forty inches in the vert he'll be over eleven
(31:19):
in the broad. Very eager to see what his forty
comes out being because the mile brower says he's gonna
run under four to four. Will that show in the testing.
He's a really unique player who's already kind of in
that first round conversation, but could help himself even more.
Shamar Stewart, who was at the Senior Bowl, two hundred
eighty pounds shouldn't move like that. Two hundred eighty pounds
shouldn't have that burst off the ball in the ability
(31:41):
to corner flat and get to the quarterback.
Speaker 6 (31:44):
But he can do it.
Speaker 8 (31:45):
So he's long, he doesn't have bad weight on him,
it's well distributed. He's a really good player. It's just
people look at the one and a half sacks then
they kind of get obsessed with that instead of looking
at the tape and saying he's getting home. He's disrupting
the quarterback at the end of the day. Yeah, you
want you would love for your your guy to have
(32:06):
fifteen sacks, but more than anything, I want him to
affect the quarterback. And that's what Shamar Stewart did consistently.
And I think based on how he tests this week,
I can't wait to see his ten yard split. I
think it'll be somewhere in the one fives, which is
I mean von Miller, I think was one five to nine.
So anything one fives that two eighty pounds is going
to be outstanding. He'll come away from this week creating
(32:27):
a little bit of buzz for himself.
Speaker 5 (32:28):
Dane.
Speaker 7 (32:28):
The medical checks are always huge here, huge, and I
think a lot of people wanted to see Abdul Carter work,
but we know what Abdul Carter is.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
Yes, he's a can't miss prospect.
Speaker 7 (32:38):
But for somebody that is being talked about in the
first round, Chevin Revel from MECU the Corner, it's a
shame that he had the ACL surgery back in the
middle of October because I'd love to see that guy
test this week.
Speaker 8 (32:50):
Yeah, and I just talked with Chavon last week and
he's if anybody that can can work back from an ACL,
it's this guy. The amount of adversity he's had to
face in his life going back to high school and
then he didn't have the grades to out of high
school to go to a top college, so he goes
to Louisbourg College. COVID wipes out his first season. He's
(33:13):
working at Amazon like he doesn't know where he's going
at ECU East Carolina has a prospect camp he shows up,
blows everybody away, has a roster spot, gets his grades
back on track. Twenty twenty three comes along and he
has his breakout year, and Alabama's calling him, Penn State's
calling him, Ohio State's calling him, and he's decided stay loyal.
(33:36):
And then of course the ACL injury happened, which is
just is heartbreaking. But if anybody that can overcome it,
it's him because of his ability to overcome adversity throughout
his life. So he's expected to be cleared. He's running
a little bit right now, but not enough where he's
going to test before the draft. Sometime over the summer
is when he'll get a chance to be back full healthy.
(33:57):
He's a top fifty player in this draft, and even
with the AC, as long as nothing else pops up
for the team trainers and physicians, he'll go to one
of the top fifty and a team will get a
little bit of a discount on a good player.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
Let's go back to CEO real quick. I've got three
offensive tackles I want to ask you about, and just good,
bad account on each one of them. Donovan Jackson Ohio
State versatility.
Speaker 8 (34:19):
He was the unsung hero for Ohio State this year,
going as soon as Josh Simmons got hurt, he kicked
out from guard to left tackle. That first game was
a little dicey against Abdul Carter and Penn State, but
the rest of the year in the playoffs, especially pitch
a shutout. So versatility is the first thing that stands
out with him in terms of maybe some areas that
you maybe question a little bit balance at contact. There
(34:41):
are sometimes where he falls off a little bit, but
this is a good player. That versatility is something that
you key in on, whether it's a guard, whether it's
a tackle. Coming back for his senior year, I think
was such a key to key something that changed for
him and really turned him into a top fifty type.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Of guy from Minnesota.
Speaker 8 (35:01):
I struggle with him, I do, but there's not many
urseries just walking around guys that are that big, yep
and move like him. If you rush him down to center,
he'll stop you. You know, he has a power in
his body where he's gonna slow you down, grind down
that rush. But if you attack his edges, that's where
(35:22):
he starts to break down a little bit. And so
I think, you know he's he's a little bit of
a late bloomer. He'll get better and better. So I think,
you know, you're drafting Ursery for not necessarily who he
is now, but what he's going to grow into. But
it just gives me a little bit of pause in
terms of if we're talking abou him as a first
round guy, scares me a little bit. We're talking about
him as the SCD round guy.
Speaker 6 (35:39):
All right. I like the.
Speaker 8 (35:40):
Value there because there is some there's some bus potential there.
But I see the traits, I see the talent. I
like what he could develop into.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
Cameron Williams from Texas.
Speaker 8 (35:49):
Cam's a tough one because one your starter, all right, yep,
it's but again, they don't make him like Guys that
look like that just don't come around very often. And
so he moves really well for three hundred and four
forty pounds or whatever he's going to be. This this
week we talked about the medicals. The knee is going
to be important with him. With the knee, it's nothing,
you know, it wasn't like a he didn't miss half
(36:11):
the year. He only missed one game this year because
of the knee. But it's something that teams need to
sign off on, so the knee will be big.
Speaker 6 (36:16):
He's just he's raw. He's very raw.
Speaker 8 (36:18):
He's won year starter, and so how long before you
feel comfortable putting him out there on an NFL field.
I'm not sure what that answer is, and that's where
I hope my offensive line coach has a better answer,
because he needs to kind of be rebuilt with his
technique and some of his movements. But he has the traits,
he has the tools, so that he's a tough prospect
(36:39):
to talk about because he's really talented, but he's just
not NFL ready right now.
Speaker 7 (36:43):
That's why I ask you, because I know you feel
the Titans need a right tackle. And there's a guy
I've been watching for a while and a value pick
I think probably late night to early day three. Ozzie Trapillo,
Boston College.
Speaker 8 (36:56):
Yeah, and you know he's a legacy guys dad played
in the league before he asked away unfortunately, but you
know he's he's a taller guy, and usually with those
taller guys, they lose leverage so easily and they could be,
you know, really bullied at the point of attack. But
he does a nice job sitting down. He's a good athlete, moves. Well,
I've been impressed with him. I think he has you know,
(37:18):
if you don't get your tackle in the top fifty picks,
I think he's the guy outside the top fifty picks
that's like, hey, let's target him, you know, let's let's
let's go after him.
Speaker 6 (37:26):
I think, you know, we might have a starter on
our hands.
Speaker 8 (37:29):
So yeah, in a tackle class, that's I wouldn't call
it deep. He's one of the few that probably isn't
gonna go top fifty, but I think a start a
potential once you get outside that top fifty.
Speaker 7 (37:39):
All right, hit me with something on a guy that
a lot of people don't know about but are gonna
learn more about this week and going forward. William and Mary,
that's right, Yeah, he I almost brought him up when
you asked about who's gonna rise this year or at
the combine because of the way they test. He is
an absolute freak and he he he didn't grow what
(38:00):
you know, being a football player.
Speaker 6 (38:01):
He didn't real play football till high school junior year.
Speaker 8 (38:04):
I think, right, yeah, he kind of got involved as
a sophomore and then but he didn't really get reps
until his junior year. He was a wrestler, play a
little bit basketball growing up, but he really didn't focus
in on football until he got to got to junior
year in high school and then goes to William and
Mary's two hundred and forty pounds. You know, he just
he needs a lot of work, and he still needs
a lot of work. I thought the Senior Bowl was
(38:24):
gonna kind of be his launch point to see how
he did, but he got hurt the final game of
the year, so he had to miss the Senior Bowl.
I'm told he's gonna be a full participant here at
the Combine, which will be huge because he should test
really well. Talk about the ten yard split, talk about
the three cone. You know, just the way he moves
is really unique. But you know, again, how far away
is he from because he's really light, He's probably gonna
(38:45):
around tw hundred ninety five pounds. How far away is
he from seeing those NFL snaps? So a little bit
more of a the developmental guy than a plug and
play guy, but a guy that we just you don't
have these traits very often.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
Give me one corner in the belly of this draft,
which is the strength of the draft, right, I mean,
it's you're talking about the tackle. Last year we were
spoiled with why the tackles came off the board.
Speaker 6 (39:09):
No doubt you.
Speaker 5 (39:10):
Got you one. Give me one corner in the belly
of it.
Speaker 8 (39:12):
Denzel Burg from Ohio State is one of those guys
who you know he's he's not going to be a
top seventy five pick probably, Yeah, but you know, once
you get outside the you know he's just he's a
four year starter Ohio State, and you know he's battle tested.
You know he's there's some low lows on his tape,
but they are also some high highs. And I give
me the corner that's battle tested who because it's it's
(39:33):
a it's very much a mentality position where yeah, you
need the speed, you need these athletic tools, but you
also need to be able to come back from a
mistake and act like it didn't happen.
Speaker 6 (39:43):
And I think he can do that.
Speaker 5 (39:44):
That's a range I was looking for this. Yeah, COO
would be proud.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
I love to hear that, dang you touched. On quarterbacks,
there's two at the top. It's debatable who's the third.
A lot of people mentioned Jackson Dark from Ole, miss
is kind of being in there, But I'm interested to
hear your thoughts on Kyle McCord from Syrahcues, who I
think can help himself this week, and then we saw
kind of things that maybe Tyler Shuck can build off
of from the senior ball.
Speaker 6 (40:09):
Yeah, I'm a big Tayler Shuk guy.
Speaker 8 (40:11):
I think people would get obsessed with the age, you know,
the fact that he's gonna be a twenty six year
old rookie, and I mean, the medicals need to check out.
He missed a lot of time in college, so the
medicals need to check out. But the guy in terms
of just talent, he's among the best in his class
and just some pure talent that size, the mobility and
the arm. The ball explodes off his hand and you know,
(40:32):
to see him healthy, finally healthy. This year at Louisville
and Brahm's offense, it was a lot of fun to watch.
So if I had a bet on a quarterback outside
the first round, is Tyler Shuck all day? And I
get it. You want twenty two year old twenty one
year old quarterback. There's some value to being a little
bit older. I mean, I know we don't see it
very often. I mean this isn't like a Brandon Whedon situation.
(40:55):
It's just a very unique situation.
Speaker 6 (40:57):
And so.
Speaker 8 (40:59):
Tayler Sho is a guy that I think, you know
can is a worthy roll of the dice. When you
get outside the first round. If it doesn't work all right,
next year you move on. But it's a day two pick,
so you don't feel like you're totally invested where you
can't move on the next year. Kyle McCory, I agree
he can help himself this this week, especially in the interviews,
because that's where I think he separates himself. How sharp
(41:20):
he is. He's not in terms of mobility, that's not
where he really That's why Ohio State decided to kind
of move on and you know, in their mind upgrade
with a guy like Will Howard because Will Howard gave
you that mobility aspect. What do you do is legs
and worked out. You know, they won a national championship. McCord, though,
is so good from the pocket. He can anticipate, he
can throw a very accurate ball, you know he is.
(41:44):
I do worry about him extending plays and he's not
necessarily a creative quarterback, but he can go make plays consistently.
From the pocket, and that's not a bad place to
start with the quarterback.
Speaker 7 (41:55):
Brian Callahan, the head coach, had been asked about running
back today. He says he's happy with Tony Pollard and
with ta j. Spears, but there's value in this in
this draft at the running back position. I'm gonna ask
you about Kyle McCord's back and Leaquinn Allen. He's three
down back, right.
Speaker 8 (42:14):
That's the thing you like the most about LeQuinn Allen
is what he can do on passing downs. He can
catch the ball and he can block. So I don't
think he's ever gonna be a full featured guy in
the NFL, but as an electric committee back, oh yeah,
he has a lot of value because special teams, catching
the football, blocking, he can do those three things. And
so where's that go. That gona be third round, fourth round,
(42:36):
and we'll see where he ends up being drafted. But
I mean, you're absolutely right about the depth is running
back class. I mean you that might be the biggest
argument not to take an ash and Gent in the
first round because you feel good about getting a running
back Day two, Day three, a guy that's going to
make an impact for your team. So it's just a
a loaded I think I gave draftable grades to thirty
(42:57):
two running backs this year. Wow, and all thirty two
aren't Gonae drafted. You know, there's not a not every
team's gonna draft a running back.
Speaker 5 (43:03):
Let's stay on running backs. Devin Neil from KU.
Speaker 8 (43:06):
Different body type, but play style reminds me a little
bit of Kyron Williams with the rams. Just the way
he plays kind of He's not I want to call
him explosive, but he glides. You know, he just really
well balanced in and out of his cuts. Another guy
that can catch the ball in the backfield, and you know,
there's something to be said about in terms of character.
He might be one of the top character guys in
(43:27):
the draft. Lawrenceville Lawrence kid. It stayed put and had
plenty of opportunities to go elsewhere, could have transferred dinner,
he stayed put, became the school's all time leading rusher.
Speaker 6 (43:38):
He's a really talented.
Speaker 8 (43:39):
Guy that I think it would be easy for him
to get lost in a loaded running back class. But yeah,
I'm glad you brought him up because he is a
He's a fun player.
Speaker 5 (43:46):
That's why I wanted to ask you about it. He
kind of you kind of look at that. It's a
great description as a glider. Yeah, a lot of time
those gliders don't take a lot of big hits.
Speaker 8 (43:55):
No, absolutely, And he's balanced so he's in and out
of his cuts really smoothly. I don't think he's gonna
like the forty. I don't think it's going to be exceptional.
But you know, he just knows how to play the
running back position and lesson not not gonna make get
a lot of hits on his body.
Speaker 6 (44:09):
It's it's it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 7 (44:10):
To watch Dane. The Titans need off ball linebackers. I
want to ask you about a couple one that I'm
interested in in Cody Lindenberg Minnesota.
Speaker 6 (44:18):
Yeah, he was a Senior Bowl guy.
Speaker 8 (44:20):
You know he's I think when you talk about progression
and getting better, he's a good example of that where
you know, you watch him his underclassman tapes like all right,
you know, solid player, moves okay, and then you watch
him get better and better every year and that's what
gives you, you know, encouragement for okay. He's because I
ideally you want to love the player right now, but
(44:42):
then also see the upside and see, Okay, you know,
I like who he is now, but he can get
better here here and here, and with our coaches, I know,
I know he's gonna be a better player. And so
I think Cody Lindenberg that's a good example of that.
Who he sees the field well, he reacts well, and
when when he does drive on the ball, he can
go make a play. So the strength of this linebacker
(45:03):
class I think like too much. I love Campbell. Carson
Schwestinger from UCLA is one of my favorite players in
this draft. A little bit light for the linebacker position.
You see that with some of his take on but
the speed, the range, the smarts, the instincts are outstanding.
But the strength of this linebacker class is rounds between
rounds three and five. Yep, there's ten, maybe eight to
(45:24):
ten guys in that rounds three to five range that
are just good quality linebackers. There might be something maybe
they're missing that's keeping them from going higher. Whether you
know Danny Stutsman from Oklahoma and not the best coverage player,
but outstanding downhill. Chris Paul from Ole Miss. He doesn't
have the length that you want, but another rangy, active player.
(45:44):
So a lot of linebackers in that third to fifth
round mix, and Lenniburg is one of them.
Speaker 7 (45:48):
A guy in that range, the converted safety Oregon Jeffrey Bassa.
Speaker 8 (45:52):
Yeah, another guy didn't play football until later on, is
kind of a you know, and you could see that
watching his underclassman tape. Then another guy got better and
better and better, had a good week at the Senior Bowl.
Moves really well. He should test pretty well here at
the combine, and you know, what do you expect from
a former safety? So but in his drops he looks good. Downhill,
(46:13):
he looks good. As long as he sees it, he
can attack it. And so, yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
He is in that mix in that third to fifth
round range.
Speaker 5 (46:21):
Tight end is a nice class. Oh it's loaded Harold
Fannin Jr.
Speaker 8 (46:25):
Yeah, and he's is he an tight end or is
he more of an h back or you know, kind
of just figuring out his exact role important? Yeah, and
so but how many twenty year olds catch one hundred
and seventeen passes? I don't care if he played in
the MAC or Bowlinger. You know, he he played at
a high level and his he's not a bad athlete.
I'm not saying that he's just a little bit of
an awkward athlete and so, but he's linearly explosive and
(46:50):
he catches everything. And again he's twenty years old. You know,
he's still so young that you know, he's one of
five or six tight ends in this draft that I
think you look at and say, all right, yeah, we
can feature him in our offense as someone that's more
than just a complimentary piece. He is someone that will
be part of what makes our offense great. And yeah,
Fannins in that mix is be He'll be somewhere off
(47:11):
the board in day two. But I do think that
he's a little unique where he won't be for everybody,
but if you find the right role for him, he
will explode.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Dame Brugler, I think we could keep you here all day.
We'll we'd run through the entire draft.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Class if we could with you.
Speaker 6 (47:26):
I'd love that. Yeah, I mean, you're.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Welcome today, but I know you're a very busy man.
A lot of people want to talk to you, but
we so appreciate your time and we look forward to
the beast.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Do we have a drop date?
Speaker 5 (47:37):
Uh? One day?
Speaker 6 (47:39):
And like, all right, yeah, here.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
You go exactly, Dame Brugler, thank you so much for
the thanks. Hey Titans fans, with a Kroger Boost membership,
you'll score big with double fuel points, free delivery, and
lots more. Go to Kroger dot com slash boost for details.
Kroger the official grocer of the Tennessee Titans. Tighten Up
(48:02):
the OTP presented by Farm Bureau Health Plans. When it's
game day for your health coverage, trust Farm Bureau Health
Plans to draw up a winning play for you. They've
been covering Tennesseeans for nearly eighty years.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Now Back to the OTP.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Big thank you to Dame Brugler and Cynthia Freeland for
hanging out with us. Plus Retbrian Coachmac I'm Amy Wells,
thanking you for being here for the OTP
This is the OTP presented by Farm Bureau Health Plans.
Far Bureau is for those who make plans for everything
except themselves. We make it easy and affordable for Tennesseeans
who don't have a group or employer plan.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Visit FBHP dot com.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
To learn more. Thank you for tuning into this edition
of the OTP. We are still here in Indianapolis. We're
not done yet, and we have more conversations that we
want to share with you, and the first one is
Cynthia Freeland. Now, Cynthia Freeland, you have seen on NFL Network.
You've seen her do all kinds of analytics and tell
(00:47):
you who to put in your fantasy football lineup, or
who you should be making bets on, or why someone
ran really faster or jump super high. She is one
of the smartest people that we know and we are
so excited whenever we get the chance to talk to
her and wow. Her insights, well they're just amazing. So
this is our conversation with NFL Networks Cynthia Freeland. All right,
(01:10):
Cynthia Friedland from NFL Network. We are so happy to
have you here.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Always good to hang out with you.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Always our favorite conversation because you have such a unique perspective.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Or weird I think that happens here.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
No, you're weird.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It is not weird. It's exciting.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
And I think that there's so many cool things about
what you do, the way that you are able to
approach events, even like this here at the combine, where
there's a lot of data, a lot of information coming
at us.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Fake and send this one though, But we just need
to figure.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Out what it all means. Not a lot, not a lot.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
If they've already done the things that mean the most.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, yeah, but still there are numbers that we are
researching that need to be ingested and communicated.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
And that's what you're here for.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Yes, So when you're looking at all the prospects, especially
you know, today's an interesting day tomorrow when the quarterbacks,
so it will be interesting as well. None of these drills.
It's all about range as coach. I'm I'm looking to you.
Make sure keep me honest here, but all I will absolutely.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Let me just say this. What you do is really good.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
See I told you it's so much right there.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
It's legit. It is legit, and people that really want
to open up their minds about what this is because
I mean, I've been doing this for a long time
and it's different. It's different, but it's relevant.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Thank you. So go ahead and try really hard on that.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Because the point is is like, there's a lot of
ways you could say the same thing, right, and there's
no the broadcast. Sometimes you're watching a game, right, it'll
be like Titan's game, They'll be like, oh, the analytics
say go for it, And there's not just like this
one analytics czar that's being like, you must go for it,
Like that's not how it works, Like it's you know,
what's your strategy?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Do you you know the Super Bowl is a place, right?
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Do you want to give Patrick Mahomes the ball back
kick three points and give it back to you on
the forty or do you want to make him go
ninety yards with your defense? If you're the egos, that's
the cat and I'm not the one making that decision.
But that's the way to look at the that's the
way to approach the problem. You can make your own decision.
But don't there's no analytics. Say who is the analytics?
Where are they?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I don't know who is analytics?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Yeah, but here is the same thing, right when you're
watching everyone, even the forties, which are super fun, very
hard to do. You know, you forget that these guys
like you know, this is a lot of interviews and
it's a lot of like following rules and like being
in like you must go here, be shuttled there, talk
to these five people.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Do these fifteen interviews? Talk to it like it's a
lot of.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Like like the ritual of the combine and like, don't
be a jerk, be one of the guys. Like there's
a lot going on here. So to be able to
perform at such a high level, that's part of it,
and that's part of what you're really being tested on.
So if you do run, as long as you're within
the ranges that are relevant to your position, that's great.
It kind of verifies everything we've seen on tape from you,
(03:46):
and you know, we can move on with our evaluation.
If you do something crazy out of range, like you
run really really fast or you run really really slow,
it causes people to go back and double check their work.
You just don't want to be one that goes back
and double check their work for the bad stuff. You
want like why did you run?
Speaker 6 (04:02):
So, like what's going on?
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Are you hurt like all, you just kind of want
you want to you want interview super well. You want
to do the things that are great, and you know
certain drills, the position specific drills like look at people's footwork,
you know, on the three condrel I'm an offensive line person,
you know, Russ grim that was the whole reason I
did my whole stupid mas he owes me money.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
Well, let me let me just say this. I know
Russ very well, just like you do.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
He told me nothing, what I could do whatever be
interesting to him, and then I spent a whole master's
degree game.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
Well, hearney, it's good that he owes you money because
he's got it. I know, so get.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
It, sir, sir, My student loans are still being paid.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Can we can help here?
Speaker 4 (04:41):
But no, but but but that's like, you know, it's
like when you're watching the three condrals, watch the speed
of their feet, watch like if they're getting you can
see it with your eyes. You don't necessarily need something
as advanced as what I use for it. If they
look like they're kind of swaying and their balance is wrong,
probably not good moving laterally, it's not you know, it's it.
It doesn't need to be perfect for what outside when
(05:02):
you're watching, like, I like this offensive why his feet
are good, his balance looks good, his base is wide,
he keeps his feet moving like.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
There's just some things right.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
But if you can do that and be fast at
the three con drow, for example, then you're probably good.
This is not a very strong O line class. I
will say that, at least on tape from college.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
It's not. But maybe someone will impress me and I'll
have to go back and check my work.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
What's interesting with this for the Tennessee Titans where we're sitting,
is that.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Is that Travis Hunter better be in your team because
I love him.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, that's your guy. I mean, yes, I don't want
to make you pick favorites right now.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
I'm draft I Alrea did a mock draft and I
was like, you must take him, okay, and you must
make him play wide receiver.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
We're going to ask you about that.
Speaker 7 (05:41):
You need to see this mock draft for everybody watching
the YOURTP that loves mox Cynthia has a different level
in this thing because her mox Cynthia Freeland dot com
and fl dot com on YouTube, the Numbers game and
her caveats are no trades, and then there's also the
free agency part of this that's factored in. And so
it's no secret you have told us Travis Hunter is
(06:04):
the pick that you had for the Titans at one.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Why yes, well, number one. The number of snaps that
this guy played, one hundred and twelve snaps. That's like
he's basically played two college full college seasons in one season,
so you have less of that like rookie falling off
the and when. By the way, not this year, but
we're going to eighteen games, so that's going to be
increasingly more important. So this guy's played the stamina and
his fatigue level, so play one to play one hundred
(06:28):
and twelve or snap one hundred and twelve for him.
He really doesn't get the level of fatigue. I don't
know if he's human. He might be a robot.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
On board with robots, pretty sure, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
But he does not lose the speed.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
The change of direction speed is one of the first
to go and you're tired, usually in the fourth quarter, No, sir,
like he's I don't even I'm not sure what he's eating.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
I need to find out.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
It's good right, but but ultimately he's a really special player.
And no shade against quarterbacks, I have no you know,
I think they're all great people like I hope all
of them succeed.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I want everyone to be good.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
I would love every all thirty two teams to be
great and every game be like all chess, you know,
like and not injuries. But that's just not the case.
It's really hard to evaluate these two specific quarterbacks. To me,
the best one is cam Ward. That's what I have,
and he ranks like he would be fourth in last
year's class.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
So that's consistent with what we've heard kind of across
the board.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
A lot of it is in a lot of it
is incomplete resumes. I don't know they because of the
transfer we're in this weird bubble with like the end
of the like the transfer portal nil situation. They're not
playing advanced concepts in college right now because everyone keeps
moving around.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
I'm so glad to hear you say that. Yes, I
mean I've evaluated.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
For a while, like like maybe ten years.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Yeah, but times four now that you've mentioned that, it could,
I mean, you're dialed in when you don't have a
complete body of work at one place in one system.
Used to could you know when I was evaluating Jake
Plumber to draft him when I was the head coach
of the Cardinals. Yep, I had all that time at
Arizona State to look at it. You have all these
now just your point with them moving like that, How
(08:13):
does that affect what you do? Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
It makes it like the variance goes from here to there.
That's right, Like that's what I'm meaning.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
And you know what else it really messes up. That's
like the unintended consequences, O lineman, because find me a
pulling guard.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
I dare you?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Like?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Well, hello, Like they just don't do that anymore.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
They don't have time to get to level two and
three in many of these places because these guys it's
a different quarterback or it's a different this where they
have too many players moving team to team. Sore the
wide receivers here and they was there and now you
can do this. You have to keep it simple.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
This makes so much sense, though. Think about the young
player I'm having. I'm having a little bit of like
a revolution right now. Think about the young players that
we have seen in the last two three ish years.
Think about where they've struggled. Just think in your brain,
all of the young players you've seen that haven't really
(09:04):
clicked until like week eight, week nine, Why are they struggling?
Because these are advanced concepts in football. We're not flashing
you pictures and colors on the sidelines. You're not looking
at your armband to match the color to the thing.
You have to communicate this with your mouth to the
people around you, and you haven't had a chance to
do that because you've played for five different schools. Oh yeah,
(09:27):
my gosh, it makes so much sense. And then coaches
have to dumb down what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Oh and by the way, the kids who didn't here
and listen.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
I'm not a psychologist, but the psychology of it. When
I talk to some of the psychologists, they have not
been coached the same way. Like I went to Boston College.
Matthias q Nuka is one of my best friends to
this day. They were coached hard at BC, and that's
part of what Matthias credits to his transformation from a
guy who was a red shirt freshman to a first
(09:56):
round draft pick. And part of it was like there
was just like and they kind of can't do that now.
Because the kids are like peace up going to the portal, like, yeah,
you know, it's it's a lot less of a commitment
than it was before. They have more power and maybe
they had too little power before. Maybe it wasn't right before.
And I think they should have gotten paid. But I
think their employees, I don't know what we'll getting into it.
I think their employees think they should have to sign
(10:17):
a contract. Their adults, like, if they're getting paid a
lot of money, they should say, like, I'm going to
be here for at least this amount of time.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I'm an adult.
Speaker 6 (10:25):
Treat me as such.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
Say the fact that did you bring the psychology part
of it into it? I mean, that's that's really important
because at the end of the day, it's still a
people business. And I and again in my career, i've
seen it change the way that you approached these players.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
And they look at you like this.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Now, I know you guys are it's an audio medium,
but no, you know, it's like down down here, down here,
down here, Like I'm like, I'm like.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Hi, it's nice to meet you.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
I'm gonna do it. Here are the questions when I'm interviewing. Here,
here are the questions I'm going to answer, ask you
how does it feel to be here today? I mean
these are easy, Like I'm not asking them like spy,
let's talk about quantum physics, not doing that, so you know,
it's like but they're and they're looking down and it's
like this pendulum eyes thing and I'm like, I'm not
there's what I'm up here, you know, And it's like right, yeah,
(11:11):
And so like if I were like a like I'm
and I tell agents like talk work on eye contact,
worked on, like don't let them use their scrip, like
I think they're addicted to screens and like they don't
want to take it, like they're thinking about when they
can pull their phone out again. Like I don't know,
maybe a'vegain I'm not a psychologist, but I'm like, look
me in the eye, sit down, and be patient and present.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
It's very weird just think about what I'm saying in
answer to the question.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
But it's it's much harder to learn.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Maybe maybe you adapt then and like create a full
video game style to teach them the playbook, but like
I don't know if that's the way to do it either,
Like maybe you meet somewhere in the middle I'm not sure,
but it's different. They're so it's so different. They don't drink,
they don't party. They like do party other things, but
like not, it's very different.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
It's very different. We drank beer.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
And the other thing is that the real there's real
money involved now, yeah, I mean real money.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Real money used to be the.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
Real money didn't come in until you were in this lead.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
That's right.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
Now they've got real money. If they're really a dude,
they've got real money. After the first year.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Do you know what I would have bought when I
was nineteen?
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Yeah, and probably that's good things a lot when you
factor that in too, I mean, does that does that
factor into your thinking with your stuff too?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
I'm my new like my think my next iteration of
how I model I really want to do, like the psychology,
like I want to be like I think, I want
to like take some more more classes.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
This is where Russ Oh, no, my bank account.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
I don't need another degree, but I'd like to take
a class in like psychology, like the psychology of like
you know, technology, and like where we are right now,
like people are so afraid of AI and what that means,
like and like this this fear of it, and I
want to understand a little bit more about the psychology
around that, because I think like there's ways to you know,
you have to kind of adapt and adopt modern things
(12:58):
otherwise you get smoked by them. So you know, these
things happening, but I would like to know the psychology
of all of it, Like I'm very curious about that.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
I'd like to factor that. It's very hard to.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Create a model with what people think, but it would
be good to know because then when you're looking at exceptions,
you can say, what am I seeing here? Is this
an exception or is this a trend that's fascinating.
Speaker 7 (13:20):
Cynthia, I'm so glad you said that because I wrote
down this question. I said, where does AI fit into
the expansion of analytics in the National Football League?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
In your opinion, I think it's the same thing.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
So to me, in general, the good information in good
information out, bad information in bad information out. Now we
have the horsepower to have a lot more information in
a faster pace. So in a few years ago, you
could maybe watch four games before you know you have
to do your install for your next game and whatever.
Now you can watch a lot or pieces of certain things.
(13:53):
But if you're not looking at the right pieces, it
thoes don't really matter if you can spend a lot
of time watching the wrong stuff. But I think a
little bit of a gut check and a little bit
of like the you know, the Devil's advocate. It's I
think people are very bad at giving critiques nowadays, like
you have like it's one thing to take criticism, it's
another thing to be able to give it. And if
if I know my if I'm a tight ends coach
(14:13):
and I know my offensive coordinator, is like not factoring
in something right. They don't feel empowered to say something right.
So it's about figuring out where where am I missing?
What hole am I missing? And how can data help
make me ten percent better? You don't need to go
one hundred percent, right, Like if you're if you were
ten percent better in every game you have seventeen games,
that's a one and a half games more wins. I
(14:34):
understand a half game doesn't happen, but they think about it, right,
like like over time that adds up if you make
ten percent better decisions. It's just like compound interests, right,
eight percent every year you double.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Your thing and whatever. So yeah, I'll stop talking about
math now.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
But yeah, no, no, but that that let me ask
you this, since you the inception of what you decided
when Russ funded all of yours, all Rush funded all.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Of America come in your way, Yeah, here we go.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
Have you have you experienced or do you feel any
more acceptance? Now?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (15:07):
See that's great.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
I've been. I've been.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
No.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Look, the thing about Rest that I liked was he
was never mean about it. He just he wasn't like
people have people get me like, you know, there's egos
in this league. You don't last as long as you've
been here without people being like just idiots and people
are super risk averse. A lot of the people that
we see in this the risk a version is an
epidemic proportion. They're You're like, oh, they're doing this to
(15:31):
save their job. I'm like, the when has that ever worked?
Speaker 5 (15:33):
Right?
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Like maybe three percent of the time, like something crazy.
So that, to me, the better way to frame things
would be like, this is the risk I'm comfortable with taking,
putting my chips on the table. I keep telling my
new strategy for coaches, especially coaches who are in a
position where like it feels like maybe their jobs on
the line. I'm like, you know you should do is
you should hire a professional gambler, not for gambling we
(15:54):
work at the NFL.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
But to teach you how to bluff.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Yeah, because they need a outside perspective on run a
different play. Everyone's very predictable in our league and their
risk a version is so high. So I think you
could bluff a little bit and you could gain this
edge of maybe four or five plays a game. Sixty games,
with sixty plays in a game, it's so pretty significant.
Just interesting stuffing, like, be a little different with it,
but make it make sense to what you're trying to do.
(16:18):
Don't be different for different sake. Be different with a purpose,
have a mission, have an identity, and then take that
and use analytics, use all the tools at your disposal
to make it make sense.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
Because see just the way you talk. If people would
sit down, and I know a lot of them do.
I mean, I'm not a decision maker in this league
anymore I used to be. But if they just sit
down and do this rather than saying I don't even
want to explore that as to where it makes.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
You, then they get their butt kicks by it. Well,
see Eagles see chiefs so radially when.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
You had to jump out there. You had to lay
this out there early without any idea as to how
it would be accepted. Am I right?
Speaker 6 (16:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I've worked in the league office.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
In two thousand and eight, I got a chance to
sit with the competition committee. Learned I just was like
really good at asking questions that I didn't know the
answer to.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Like what does the offful linebacker do here? Do you know?
What if you didn't call them? Do you know?
Speaker 4 (17:11):
And no one does? I didn't know that, like no
one knew. I thought everyone knew in the room. But
I just wasn't afraid to ask questions. But I asked
a question with a purpose. I want to know what
this off ball linebacker is doing, because is it impacting
whether or not the quarterback decides to hand the ball
off or take the ball himself or to throw Like
I did, I wanted to understand the decision science behind it,
because I understood that defense is all about It's a
decision tree. If I see this, it's not gonna be this.
(17:33):
You rule things out instead of like the offense gets
to pick what they're doing. The defense rules things out
as you as certain things.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
Say it did stop right there. That's exactly how you
teach dfans.
Speaker 6 (17:45):
Yeah, you don't.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
Play every play every snap. Now you eliminate what they're
not gonna do. Then you look at the way they
line up and you look at that. And that's the
way I got taught. Well when I listened, you did listen,
because when you're coaching, you say, you know our coach
linebackers for years, but.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I would be a mean safety.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
Get a hit. Well, well, because you would be. You
would be you would be smarter. You'd be smart enough
to get pre snap reads and telling the linebacker. The
biggest thing linebackers doing this is get ahead of the block.
Don't defeat the block. Get ahead of the block.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
It's angles. Everything is angles.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
But but you have to know what's come ye see this? Yeah,
we could talk for I love it.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
And my favorite part about like I loved being in
those rooms number one watching film in the dark with
the cowboy clicker, with the snacks. It's like the end swearing. Yeah,
there needs to do some good curse words in there,
Like that's really like I love LA. Of course I
got on air, oh yeah, certain Indianapolis GM on air
(18:50):
on ESPN went after me hard, and I held it
in until I got to the green room and I
was like, dang, and we and we've since made up.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
But he's a that that that one's that one's real
quick for.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
The OT people. When I first when I when I
stepped out of coaching and got it in broadcasting. Yeah,
I came and these two actually and Amy, they came
to me and said, coach back after they were scared
of me for a while loud, but then they and
then they they came and said, could.
Speaker 6 (19:16):
You teach us a little bit?
Speaker 5 (19:17):
So for one whole off season three hours a day.
I said, look, I don't need to practice my coaching.
I will as long as you'll take notes. And we're
gonna And I made Amy run the Cowboy clicker and
I would you know, I would just I would drill
her and I look over there and she got tears
coming to our rise. She said, I'm just so nervous.
I said, stop being nervous and start being productive.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I think what I said is I'm doing my best.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
But anyway, it was great because and I could just
see you that, yeah, I can take it all. Just
I want to learn.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Yeah, No, I I was very amenable. I also like,
I'm good with being wrong as long as I have
a good reason for being wrong. Yeah, you know, like
I'm not going to be like, so why is the
sky blue? Like that's stupid question asking, but like there
are stupid questions.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Right but there.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
But but like if you say, like you know, hey, coach,
what happened on play forty three? I don't understand this, yeah,
they will tell you because they're like, I'm like, I
don't know. The safety looked like it is here? Is
it a false levergy?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
What what is this? And look like now he actually
just read this wrong?
Speaker 5 (20:19):
So now people, now people. My whole point of this
is now people are more receptive.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
They are okay, yes.
Speaker 7 (20:26):
Yes, less dismissive. Dismissive is what? Yes, I know there's
a lot of people some visceral, but I think it
sounds like they were dismissive, like man, whatever that.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Is, Yeah, dismissive, But also like they they're like, how
can someone who's never played know anything about it? And listen,
don't let this, don't let this uh exterior fool you.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I would have been a mean safety.
Speaker 7 (20:48):
But yeah, as coach Mack would say, this was what
a coach would say, is like she has no water
in her buckets. She never did anything. I read like,
how are you going to tell you?
Speaker 5 (20:56):
How?
Speaker 6 (20:56):
I get that?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
I mean, and you're And the other thing is like
you just kind of got to like like every anything
else is like do I love this more than like
you're giving? Sometimes the negative feedback is good, like it
helped me be a better question asker or more concise
with my answers or more you know, it framed up
like I did learn something from that. That was feedback.
And now, to be fair, I didn't really like Twitter comments.
I wasn't really but the but the like the one
(21:19):
on one like I can see if someone's not like
if they're not getting it or they're being polite and
shaking their like I'm like, wait, do you do you
want to explain more? Like you know, it's like just
be open to that and put your.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Check your ego at the door.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
But seeing teams embrace it and continue to grow, I
mean analytics departments in the last.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
The Big Data.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Seventh Big Data BWL this season, yeah, over four hundred
people enter at the Big datable the five top teams
they can So every year we pick a topic.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Well, we don't.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Teams pick a topic and they ask a question that
they'd like answered with data. So this year is about
pre snap motion and the value of it. The funny
part is, and I love the league for this, they
give eight games of next gen stats, but from two
seasons ago, so literally we had like like some places
where like Marcedes Lewis was there, and these college teams
were like, what happened first? These people were born or
(22:08):
Marcedes Lewis started a lad But I just love that
they like sequester the good data, like you know, two
years whatever. So but these people come up with these
really great ideas and they've ended up turning into things
like expected rushing yards, which, by the way, the next
Gen stats aren't perfect, but what they do is provide
a good framework to look a year. Every year, Like,
for example, this year, we have the most expected rush
(22:31):
yards for running backs and for quarterbacks that we've ever
had since sexual assessment tracking, right, you know, for running
back it was four point two yards. For a quarterback
it was six yards. Past years it was like three
and a half and five point seven or something like
that before. So it just it's just been interesting to
see directionally how the big trends are moving. Now we
have a good defensive tackle class this year, is that
going to change? Like are we going to now stop
the run better? It's a pendulum. It swings back and
(22:52):
forth right as we know, so you know, it's just
directionally right. It gives us clues as to where to
look further. Because all I'm doing is, like if I'm
working for you, coach, I'm doing is trying to make
your life ten percent easier.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
See, And that's so great because when I came when
I come here now in this role, I always spend
at least two nights with position coaches saying, what's happening
in the league right now? Yep, what's happening? What is happening?
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Well, now everyone's looking for Zachmond and that like, who's
the guy we can transition into be an off ball linebackers?
Speaker 5 (23:21):
Before that?
Speaker 6 (23:22):
Good?
Speaker 5 (23:22):
And that's right, that's right, that's right to your point,
Trends change, Trends change, and that's why you know if
you keep up with it, but you've got to you've
got to investigate it, yep, rather than just say, oh, well,
you know this is what's happening. It's it's it's fascinating
and you're to be commended for what you do.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Thank you, I appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Make me for hanging out with us.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Nobody in the league loves to learn as much as Cynthia,
and we got it.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Russ Russ and Russ Bank account student loans.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Whether you're buying or selling tickets to a Titans game
or any live event in Nashville, Seat Geek is the
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(24:21):
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back to the OTP. Dame Burglar from the Athletic thank
you so much for hanging out with us a little
bit here at the combine.
Speaker 8 (24:39):
Well, it's not the combines till I gets a chance
to talk to you guys, right, I mean exactly, this
is I don't know how many years we've done this
in a row, but a lot. It's working out. Let's
keep it going.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
It's a tradition, exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
So let's talk about this draft class of what makes
it unique, What has stood out to you as you've
been reviewing some of the tape.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
What are some of the trends that you're seeing.
Speaker 8 (24:58):
It's a really polarizing quarterback group, that's for sure. I'm
sure you guys uh know a little bit about that
with the number one overall pick. And then you know,
there's certain positions that are deep defensive lines, stacked running backs,
great tight ends, loaded, so uh, there are certain positions
that are just fun to study in this draft because
there's so many of these guys and they're all different.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
They offer something a little bit different.
Speaker 8 (25:20):
So understanding, try to understand, you know, what teams are
going to value, you know where they're gonna land in
the draft.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
It's it's a lot of fun. So uh.
Speaker 8 (25:28):
And then here at the combine, you know, it's a
lot the combines one big cross checking exercise, you know,
So like the Hayes in the barn we've watched the tape.
We you know, we know about these guys. Now it's
about just confirming what the tape says. You know, if
a guy's fast on tape, all right, let's see him
run a four four, you know, and if he doesn't,
then it's like, all right, we need to go back
and figure out did we miss something? You know, what's
(25:50):
what's the disconnect there? So the combine is a really
valuable tool for for me, for teams where you just
want to be able to cross check what your initial
evaluation says.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
In your evaluation, can you tell me why this is
a good year for the Titans to have the number
one pick in the draft?
Speaker 8 (26:06):
And I think it's debatable when you look at because
every draft has its own identity, you know, it's a
little bit different. Last year we had three guys at
the top that I think you would have been over
the moon drafting any of those top three quarterbacks come about,
Kayleb Williams, Jane Daniels, Drake May and I think all
three of them lived up to his rookies where maybe
it wasn't. Jane Daniels was phenomenal, but you know, Caleb
(26:28):
Williams wasn't perfect all the time, but you can at
least see where it's going. This year, it's not as
cut and dry. I think cam Ward from Miami is
the favorite to be the first quarterback drafted, whether that's
at one or maybe somewhere else in the top five.
You know, that's something that hopefully we get better sense
of here this week and then throughout the process. But
(26:50):
if the if the Titans decide, it's never a bad
year to have the number one pick because there's always
going to be someone at the top or someone that's
interests where. Okay, if you stick a pick and it's
not a quarterback, hey Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter, two really
dynamic players, cornerstone type of guys that are gonna make
your roster better. But there's also, you know, an interesting
(27:11):
quarterback or two at the top where your phone should
be ringing. So if I'm the Titans, I'm going through
this process giving off vibes like we're gonna take a
quarterback because that's just gonna help me. The teams behind us,
whether Giants, Raiders, whoever it may be, teams may be
a little bit more desperate for a quarterback. They're gonna
sick it up the ante if they're gonna give us
a call and say, hey, what do you think about
(27:32):
you know, a two in a three or whatever.
Speaker 6 (27:34):
It may end up being. So at the end of
the day, you just want options.
Speaker 8 (27:38):
And you know for a team like the Titans that
you know you have the number one pick for a reason.
So it's how are we going to get better? Not
just for twenty twenty five, but for the next three years,
four years. What is going the decisions we need to
do make right now that's going to put us on
a path to success. And you know, this is a
really interesting year to have a number one overall pick,
(27:59):
and it's a big opportun unity for this organization.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
You and I both were brought up in the scouting
world by.
Speaker 6 (28:04):
A legend, the legend, the legend, that's right.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
I mean, it's it's fun for me to talk to
you every year like this because I mean just so much.
Speaker 8 (28:14):
We could talk for hours about Coe and what he
meant for the league, for the scouting community, and and
for each of us individually. It's just it's really awesome.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
When CEO would talk about a player, and I was
in a lot of draft rooms with him for a
lot of h'd say, just give me a plus and
a minus on this guy. That's all I want to
That's all I want to hear. Do you still go
buy that? Just just give give me a bullet point?
Didn't like a lot of.
Speaker 6 (28:40):
Bs, right, that's absolutely right.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
Yeah, didn't like you to wander around? Uh c O,
I use this with rent C. Don't give me the
Charles Dickens novel on this dude. You know I want to.
I want some bullet points? Did you still is that
you still subscribe to that?
Speaker 8 (28:55):
I doubt, no doubt, because at the end of the day, like, yeah,
I can give you a manifesto about you know, a
player and all these different things, but sometimes we can
get too much in the weeds on these guys, you know,
like at the end of the day, what makes them
successful or what's a one area where you know, if
things get disrupted, it's because of this, And so no
(29:16):
doubt about it. Things I took away from CEO were
just to be succynct with your evaluations, and then also
just the importance of being observant. Sometimes being a scout
is just being observant, and you know, there's no such
thing as a genius scout or it's just it's about
being observant and the most the best scouts were always
the guys that were the most observant.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
There've been in a lot of draft rooms with him.
Were you know, somebody be reading the report and reading
the report and reading report and see what would.
Speaker 6 (29:42):
Slap the tape and go is he good or not?
Speaker 5 (29:46):
Yeah, I still don't know if he can play.
Speaker 7 (29:51):
Give me a couple of guys, because of course everybody
in the world knows about the Beast, and hats off
to you for that, because that is the gift of
the draft season every year. But give me a couple
of the guys that you think will will explode in
testing this week, Like Jihad Campbell is one of those,
yes from Alabama that I think will test here very well.
Speaker 8 (30:12):
Yeah, guy's a freak and he's interesting because he was
recruited as a pass rusher, but because they were kind
of stacked a pass rusher, they stood them up as
a linebacker and so the instincts aren't you know, they're developing,
they're working progress. He's not there yet, but he still
had one hundred and seventeen tackles this year. You don't
do that by you know, being a bad football player.
(30:34):
So the athleticism, the way he moves, the range. But
I think you know, my favorite tape was un is
getting after the quarterback? So how do you work that
into How does that work in your scheme? You know
how if you're going to draft a player like that,
you have to make sure your defensive coordinators on board with, Hey,
yeah he can do this, this and this, but he
gets after the quarterback. That's what he does really well.
Jalen Walker, same thing from Georgia, who a freak guy
(30:57):
with length and you know when they let him run,
he would get home. But can he be a true
edge rusher or you gonna play him off the ball.
So there are a few conversion guys. But back back
to your point about the guys that are gonna blow
up this year, no doubt about it. Campbell's one of them.
Nick em and Warry from South Carolina, the safety six
two and twenty five pounds and he'll he jumps, will
be forty inches in the vert he'll be over eleven
(31:19):
in the broad. Very eager to see what his forty
comes out being because the mile brower says he's gonna
run under four to four. Will that show in the testing.
He's a really unique player who's already kind of in
that first round conversation, but could help himself even more.
Shamar Stewart, who was at the Senior Bowl, two hundred
eighty pounds shouldn't move like that. Two hundred eighty pounds
shouldn't have that burst off the ball in the ability
(31:41):
to corner flat and get to the quarterback.
Speaker 6 (31:44):
But he can do it.
Speaker 8 (31:45):
So he's long, he doesn't have bad weight on him,
it's well distributed. He's a really good player. It's just
people look at the one and a half sacks then
they kind of get obsessed with that instead of looking
at the tape and saying he's getting home. He's disrupting
the quarterback at the end of the day. Yeah, you
want you would love for your your guy to have
(32:06):
fifteen sacks, but more than anything, I want him to
affect the quarterback. And that's what Shamar Stewart did consistently.
And I think based on how he tests this week,
I can't wait to see his ten yard split. I
think it'll be somewhere in the one fives, which is
I mean von Miller, I think was one five to nine.
So anything one fives that two eighty pounds is going
to be outstanding. He'll come away from this week creating
(32:27):
a little bit of buzz for himself.
Speaker 5 (32:28):
Dane.
Speaker 7 (32:28):
The medical checks are always huge here, huge, and I
think a lot of people wanted to see Abdul Carter work,
but we know what Abdul Carter is.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
Yes, he's a can't miss prospect.
Speaker 7 (32:38):
But for somebody that is being talked about in the
first round, Chevin Revel from MECU the Corner, it's a
shame that he had the ACL surgery back in the
middle of October because I'd love to see that guy
test this week.
Speaker 8 (32:50):
Yeah, and I just talked with Chavon last week and
he's if anybody that can can work back from an ACL,
it's this guy. The amount of adversity he's had to
face in his life going back to high school and
then he didn't have the grades to out of high
school to go to a top college, so he goes
to Louisbourg College. COVID wipes out his first season. He's
(33:13):
working at Amazon like he doesn't know where he's going
at ECU East Carolina has a prospect camp he shows up,
blows everybody away, has a roster spot, gets his grades
back on track. Twenty twenty three comes along and he
has his breakout year, and Alabama's calling him, Penn State's
calling him, Ohio State's calling him, and he's decided stay loyal.
(33:36):
And then of course the ACL injury happened, which is
just is heartbreaking. But if anybody that can overcome it,
it's him because of his ability to overcome adversity throughout
his life. So he's expected to be cleared. He's running
a little bit right now, but not enough where he's
going to test before the draft. Sometime over the summer
is when he'll get a chance to be back full healthy.
(33:57):
He's a top fifty player in this draft, and even
with the AC, as long as nothing else pops up
for the team trainers and physicians, he'll go to one
of the top fifty and a team will get a
little bit of a discount on a good player.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
Let's go back to CEO real quick. I've got three
offensive tackles I want to ask you about, and just good,
bad account on each one of them. Donovan Jackson Ohio
State versatility.
Speaker 8 (34:19):
He was the unsung hero for Ohio State this year,
going as soon as Josh Simmons got hurt, he kicked
out from guard to left tackle. That first game was
a little dicey against Abdul Carter and Penn State, but
the rest of the year in the playoffs, especially pitch
a shutout. So versatility is the first thing that stands
out with him in terms of maybe some areas that
you maybe question a little bit balance at contact. There
(34:41):
are sometimes where he falls off a little bit, but
this is a good player. That versatility is something that
you key in on, whether it's a guard, whether it's
a tackle. Coming back for his senior year, I think
was such a key to key something that changed for
him and really turned him into a top fifty type.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Of guy from Minnesota.
Speaker 8 (35:01):
I struggle with him, I do, but there's not many
urseries just walking around guys that are that big, yep
and move like him. If you rush him down to center,
he'll stop you. You know, he has a power in
his body where he's gonna slow you down, grind down
that rush. But if you attack his edges, that's where
(35:22):
he starts to break down a little bit. And so
I think, you know he's he's a little bit of
a late bloomer. He'll get better and better. So I think,
you know, you're drafting Ursery for not necessarily who he
is now, but what he's going to grow into. But
it just gives me a little bit of pause in
terms of if we're talking abou him as a first
round guy, scares me a little bit. We're talking about
him as the SCD round guy.
Speaker 6 (35:39):
All right. I like the.
Speaker 8 (35:40):
Value there because there is some there's some bus potential there.
But I see the traits, I see the talent. I
like what he could develop into.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
Cameron Williams from Texas.
Speaker 8 (35:49):
Cam's a tough one because one your starter, all right, yep,
it's but again, they don't make him like Guys that
look like that just don't come around very often. And
so he moves really well for three hundred and four
forty pounds or whatever he's going to be. This this
week we talked about the medicals. The knee is going
to be important with him. With the knee, it's nothing,
you know, it wasn't like a he didn't miss half
(36:11):
the year. He only missed one game this year because
of the knee. But it's something that teams need to
sign off on, so the knee will be big.
Speaker 6 (36:16):
He's just he's raw. He's very raw.
Speaker 8 (36:18):
He's won year starter, and so how long before you
feel comfortable putting him out there on an NFL field.
I'm not sure what that answer is, and that's where
I hope my offensive line coach has a better answer,
because he needs to kind of be rebuilt with his
technique and some of his movements. But he has the traits,
he has the tools, so that he's a tough prospect
(36:39):
to talk about because he's really talented, but he's just
not NFL ready right now.
Speaker 7 (36:43):
That's why I ask you, because I know you feel
the Titans need a right tackle. And there's a guy
I've been watching for a while and a value pick
I think probably late night to early day three. Ozzie Trapillo,
Boston College.
Speaker 8 (36:56):
Yeah, and you know he's a legacy guys dad played
in the league before he asked away unfortunately, but you
know he's he's a taller guy, and usually with those
taller guys, they lose leverage so easily and they could be,
you know, really bullied at the point of attack. But
he does a nice job sitting down. He's a good athlete, moves. Well,
I've been impressed with him. I think he has you know,
(37:18):
if you don't get your tackle in the top fifty picks,
I think he's the guy outside the top fifty picks
that's like, hey, let's target him, you know, let's let's
let's go after him.
Speaker 6 (37:26):
I think, you know, we might have a starter on
our hands.
Speaker 8 (37:29):
So yeah, in a tackle class, that's I wouldn't call
it deep. He's one of the few that probably isn't
gonna go top fifty, but I think a start a
potential once you get outside that top fifty.
Speaker 7 (37:39):
All right, hit me with something on a guy that
a lot of people don't know about but are gonna
learn more about this week and going forward. William and Mary,
that's right, Yeah, he I almost brought him up when
you asked about who's gonna rise this year or at
the combine because of the way they test. He is
an absolute freak and he he he didn't grow what
(38:00):
you know, being a football player.
Speaker 6 (38:01):
He didn't real play football till high school junior year.
Speaker 8 (38:04):
I think, right, yeah, he kind of got involved as
a sophomore and then but he didn't really get reps
until his junior year. He was a wrestler, play a
little bit basketball growing up, but he really didn't focus
in on football until he got to got to junior
year in high school and then goes to William and
Mary's two hundred and forty pounds. You know, he just
he needs a lot of work, and he still needs
a lot of work. I thought the Senior Bowl was
(38:24):
gonna kind of be his launch point to see how
he did, but he got hurt the final game of
the year, so he had to miss the Senior Bowl.
I'm told he's gonna be a full participant here at
the Combine, which will be huge because he should test
really well. Talk about the ten yard split, talk about
the three cone. You know, just the way he moves
is really unique. But you know, again, how far away
is he from because he's really light, He's probably gonna
(38:45):
around tw hundred ninety five pounds. How far away is
he from seeing those NFL snaps? So a little bit
more of a the developmental guy than a plug and
play guy, but a guy that we just you don't
have these traits very often.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
Give me one corner in the belly of this draft,
which is the strength of the draft, right, I mean,
it's you're talking about the tackle. Last year we were
spoiled with why the tackles came off the board.
Speaker 6 (39:09):
No doubt you.
Speaker 5 (39:10):
Got you one. Give me one corner in the belly
of it.
Speaker 8 (39:12):
Denzel Burg from Ohio State is one of those guys
who you know he's he's not going to be a
top seventy five pick probably, Yeah, but you know, once
you get outside the you know he's just he's a
four year starter Ohio State, and you know he's battle tested.
You know he's there's some low lows on his tape,
but they are also some high highs. And I give
me the corner that's battle tested who because it's it's
(39:33):
a it's very much a mentality position where yeah, you
need the speed, you need these athletic tools, but you
also need to be able to come back from a
mistake and act like it didn't happen.
Speaker 6 (39:43):
And I think he can do that.
Speaker 5 (39:44):
That's a range I was looking for this. Yeah, COO
would be proud.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
I love to hear that, dang you touched. On quarterbacks,
there's two at the top. It's debatable who's the third.
A lot of people mentioned Jackson Dark from Ole, miss
is kind of being in there, But I'm interested to
hear your thoughts on Kyle McCord from Syrahcues, who I
think can help himself this week, and then we saw
kind of things that maybe Tyler Shuck can build off
of from the senior ball.
Speaker 6 (40:09):
Yeah, I'm a big Tayler Shuk guy.
Speaker 8 (40:11):
I think people would get obsessed with the age, you know,
the fact that he's gonna be a twenty six year
old rookie, and I mean, the medicals need to check out.
He missed a lot of time in college, so the
medicals need to check out. But the guy in terms
of just talent, he's among the best in his class
and just some pure talent that size, the mobility and
the arm. The ball explodes off his hand and you know,
(40:32):
to see him healthy, finally healthy. This year at Louisville
and Brahm's offense, it was a lot of fun to watch.
So if I had a bet on a quarterback outside
the first round, is Tyler Shuck all day? And I
get it. You want twenty two year old twenty one
year old quarterback. There's some value to being a little
bit older. I mean, I know we don't see it
very often. I mean this isn't like a Brandon Whedon situation.
(40:55):
It's just a very unique situation.
Speaker 6 (40:57):
And so.
Speaker 8 (40:59):
Tayler Sho is a guy that I think, you know
can is a worthy roll of the dice. When you
get outside the first round. If it doesn't work all right,
next year you move on. But it's a day two pick,
so you don't feel like you're totally invested where you
can't move on the next year. Kyle McCory, I agree
he can help himself this this week, especially in the interviews,
because that's where I think he separates himself. How sharp
(41:20):
he is. He's not in terms of mobility, that's not
where he really That's why Ohio State decided to kind
of move on and you know, in their mind upgrade
with a guy like Will Howard because Will Howard gave
you that mobility aspect. What do you do is legs
and worked out. You know, they won a national championship. McCord, though,
is so good from the pocket. He can anticipate, he
can throw a very accurate ball, you know he is.
(41:44):
I do worry about him extending plays and he's not
necessarily a creative quarterback, but he can go make plays consistently.
From the pocket, and that's not a bad place to
start with the quarterback.
Speaker 7 (41:55):
Brian Callahan, the head coach, had been asked about running
back today. He says he's happy with Tony Pollard and
with ta j. Spears, but there's value in this in
this draft at the running back position. I'm gonna ask
you about Kyle McCord's back and Leaquinn Allen. He's three
down back, right.
Speaker 8 (42:14):
That's the thing you like the most about LeQuinn Allen
is what he can do on passing downs. He can
catch the ball and he can block. So I don't
think he's ever gonna be a full featured guy in
the NFL, but as an electric committee back, oh yeah,
he has a lot of value because special teams, catching
the football, blocking, he can do those three things. And
so where's that go. That gona be third round, fourth round,
(42:36):
and we'll see where he ends up being drafted. But
I mean, you're absolutely right about the depth is running
back class. I mean you that might be the biggest
argument not to take an ash and Gent in the
first round because you feel good about getting a running
back Day two, Day three, a guy that's going to
make an impact for your team. So it's just a
a loaded I think I gave draftable grades to thirty
(42:57):
two running backs this year. Wow, and all thirty two
aren't Gonae drafted. You know, there's not a not every
team's gonna draft a running back.
Speaker 5 (43:03):
Let's stay on running backs. Devin Neil from KU.
Speaker 8 (43:06):
Different body type, but play style reminds me a little
bit of Kyron Williams with the rams. Just the way
he plays kind of He's not I want to call
him explosive, but he glides. You know, he just really
well balanced in and out of his cuts. Another guy
that can catch the ball in the backfield, and you know,
there's something to be said about in terms of character.
He might be one of the top character guys in
(43:27):
the draft. Lawrenceville Lawrence kid. It stayed put and had
plenty of opportunities to go elsewhere, could have transferred dinner,
he stayed put, became the school's all time leading rusher.
Speaker 6 (43:38):
He's a really talented.
Speaker 8 (43:39):
Guy that I think it would be easy for him
to get lost in a loaded running back class. But yeah,
I'm glad you brought him up because he is a
He's a fun player.
Speaker 5 (43:46):
That's why I wanted to ask you about it. He
kind of you kind of look at that. It's a
great description as a glider. Yeah, a lot of time
those gliders don't take a lot of big hits.
Speaker 8 (43:55):
No, absolutely, And he's balanced so he's in and out
of his cuts really smoothly. I don't think he's gonna
like the forty. I don't think it's going to be exceptional.
But you know, he just knows how to play the
running back position and lesson not not gonna make get
a lot of hits on his body.
Speaker 6 (44:09):
It's it's it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 7 (44:10):
To watch Dane. The Titans need off ball linebackers. I
want to ask you about a couple one that I'm
interested in in Cody Lindenberg Minnesota.
Speaker 6 (44:18):
Yeah, he was a Senior Bowl guy.
Speaker 8 (44:20):
You know he's I think when you talk about progression
and getting better, he's a good example of that where
you know, you watch him his underclassman tapes like all right,
you know, solid player, moves okay, and then you watch
him get better and better every year and that's what
gives you, you know, encouragement for okay. He's because I
ideally you want to love the player right now, but
(44:42):
then also see the upside and see, Okay, you know,
I like who he is now, but he can get
better here here and here, and with our coaches, I know,
I know he's gonna be a better player. And so
I think Cody Lindenberg that's a good example of that.
Who he sees the field well, he reacts well, and
when when he does drive on the ball, he can
go make a play. So the strength of this linebacker
(45:03):
class I think like too much. I love Campbell. Carson
Schwestinger from UCLA is one of my favorite players in
this draft. A little bit light for the linebacker position.
You see that with some of his take on but
the speed, the range, the smarts, the instincts are outstanding.
But the strength of this linebacker class is rounds between
rounds three and five. Yep, there's ten, maybe eight to
(45:24):
ten guys in that rounds three to five range that
are just good quality linebackers. There might be something maybe
they're missing that's keeping them from going higher. Whether you
know Danny Stutsman from Oklahoma and not the best coverage player,
but outstanding downhill. Chris Paul from Ole Miss. He doesn't
have the length that you want, but another rangy, active player.
(45:44):
So a lot of linebackers in that third to fifth
round mix, and Lenniburg is one of them.
Speaker 7 (45:48):
A guy in that range, the converted safety Oregon Jeffrey Bassa.
Speaker 8 (45:52):
Yeah, another guy didn't play football until later on, is
kind of a you know, and you could see that
watching his underclassman tape. Then another guy got better and
better and better, had a good week at the Senior Bowl.
Moves really well. He should test pretty well here at
the combine, and you know, what do you expect from
a former safety? So but in his drops he looks good. Downhill,
(46:13):
he looks good. As long as he sees it, he
can attack it. And so, yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
He is in that mix in that third to fifth
round range.
Speaker 5 (46:21):
Tight end is a nice class. Oh it's loaded Harold
Fannin Jr.
Speaker 8 (46:25):
Yeah, and he's is he an tight end or is
he more of an h back or you know, kind
of just figuring out his exact role important? Yeah, and
so but how many twenty year olds catch one hundred
and seventeen passes? I don't care if he played in
the MAC or Bowlinger. You know, he he played at
a high level and his he's not a bad athlete.
I'm not saying that he's just a little bit of
an awkward athlete and so, but he's linearly explosive and
(46:50):
he catches everything. And again he's twenty years old. You know,
he's still so young that you know, he's one of
five or six tight ends in this draft that I
think you look at and say, all right, yeah, we
can feature him in our offense as someone that's more
than just a complimentary piece. He is someone that will
be part of what makes our offense great. And yeah,
Fannins in that mix is be He'll be somewhere off
(47:11):
the board in day two. But I do think that
he's a little unique where he won't be for everybody,
but if you find the right role for him, he
will explode.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Dame Brugler, I think we could keep you here all day.
We'll we'd run through the entire draft.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Class if we could with you.
Speaker 6 (47:26):
I'd love that. Yeah, I mean, you're.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Welcome today, but I know you're a very busy man.
A lot of people want to talk to you, but
we so appreciate your time and we look forward to
the beast.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Do we have a drop date?
Speaker 5 (47:37):
Uh? One day?
Speaker 6 (47:39):
And like, all right, yeah, here.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
You go exactly, Dame Brugler, thank you so much for
the thanks. Hey Titans fans, with a Kroger Boost membership,
you'll score big with double fuel points, free delivery, and
lots more. Go to Kroger dot com slash boost for details.
Kroger the official grocer of the Tennessee Titans. Tighten Up
(48:02):
the OTP presented by Farm Bureau Health Plans. When it's
game day for your health coverage, trust Farm Bureau Health
Plans to draw up a winning play for you. They've
been covering Tennesseeans for nearly eighty years.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Now Back to the OTP.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Big thank you to Dame Brugler and Cynthia Freeland for
hanging out with us. Plus Retbrian Coachmac I'm Amy Wells,
thanking you for being here for the OTP
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