December 14, 2025 • 27 mins
Archbishop Kanishka on the terror attack at Bondi - Kanishka Raffel, Martin Morgan and Ben Pakula
Sydney’s Anglican Archbishop Kanishka Raffel calls on Sydney to embrace our Jewish neighbours in love, friendship and support and to reject antisemitism, violence and hatred.
Archbishop Raffel says this is the way of Jesus.
Minister of Bondi Anglican Martin Morgan says they sheltered people in the church last night, who were terrified, running for their lives.
In a The Pastor’s Heart special, Archbishop Raffel is joined by minister of Bondi Anglican Church Martin Morgan and Messianic Jew Ben Pakula (also an Anglican Minister) in praying for those family and friends and the Bondi community, impacted by the gunman opening fire - leaving 16 dead including a 10 year old girl.
http://thepastorsheart.net/podcast/love-in-the-face-of-terror-raffel-morgan-pakula
Suggested Prayers :-
Prayers prepared by St Andrew’s Cathedral, Sydney for those affected by the shooting at Bondi Beach, 14/12/25
For the bereaved and injured
Heavenly Father, God of all comfort, deal graciously with those who grieve in this time of deep sadness. We pray especially for family and friends of those who have been shot. Grant them strength and peace in the days ahead. We pray with a spirit of compassion and grace for the Jewish and broader Bondi community, as they come to terms with their grief and shock. We ask you, Gracious Lord, to heal and restore all those who are still recovering in hospital. Be with them and their families as they travel the road to recovery. In Jesus’ name we pray, Amen.
For the first responders
Heavenly Father, whose blessed Son was acquainted with grief and carried our sorrows: Thank you for those who, courageously following in his steps, willingly entered into the trauma of recent events on our behalf – civilians responders, the police, ambulance officers and other emergency medical personnel. We pray also for the police responsible for investigating the circumstances around these crimes. In your tender mercy, grant diligence and protection in their tasks, and rest to their bodies, healing to their minds, and peace to their hearts; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who with you and the Holy Spirit, lives and reigns, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.
For the community around Bondi Beach
Our dear Heavenly Father, hear our prayers for the men, women and children, who live and work in or near Bondi Beach and the surrounding areas. We present the needs of residents, shopkeepers, restaurateurs, staff, customers, and visitors to the area. You know them. You know every hair on their heads. We call on you to protect and heal. Allow a healthy process as people respond to these harrowing acts of violence. Thank you, Lord, for the courage and kindness of the people who helped each other on Sunday. May that spirit of kindness continue through your empowering, Lord. As people face anxiety, trauma, and grief, provide comfort, resilience, peace, and safety. Grant wisdom to community leaders and help us know you are a good, gracious God. We ask this in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. Amen.
For the wider community of Sydney Anglicans
Anglican Aid
To support Anglican Aid's Christmas Appeal - Click: Anglican Aid.
The Church Co
http://www.thechurchco.com is a website and app platform built specifically for churches.
Advertise on The Pastor's Heart
To advertise on The Pastor's Heart go to thepastorsheart.net/sponsor
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (01:06):
It is the Pastor's Heart, embracing our Jewish
neighbours in love, friendshipand support, rejecting
anti-Semitism, violence andhatred.
That is the way of Jesus, saysthe Anglican Archbishop of
Sydney, Kanishka Raffle.
We are joined in a Pastor'sHeart special by the Archbishop
of Sydney, Kanishka, but alsothe minister of Bondi Anglican
(01:28):
Church, Martin Morgan, and BenPakula, an Anglican minister
from Sydney, but who is also aJew who has come to trust in the
Jewish Messiah.
It is less than twenty hourssince two gunmen opened fire on
a Jewish celebration at Sydney'sBondi Beach.
Martin Morgan was just a fewhundred metres away, leaving the
(01:48):
church building when theshooting happened and people
started running past.
Let's go first to Martin.
And Martin, take us through thelast 20 hours for you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
As you said, um we just finished our church
service.
It was a lovely church service,and um we were distributing some
hampers to neighbours in theimmediate area around the
church.
So uh a group of 20 or so peoplegrabbed some hampers and walking
into um different homes,knocking on doors, having
discussions, talking to them,and we'd just come back, and and
(02:21):
some of us were still comingback when we heard um some rapid
noises that sounded likefireworks, and we were convinced
it was fireworks.
Like that.
And uh didn't think much of it.
So we came into the churchbuilding, we were talking in the
foyer and uh chatting about thesermon, about the interactions
we've just had with um some ofthe people we've met in the
(02:41):
street.
And in that context, um one ladydressed in formal wear with her
sh holding her shoes, ran up thestreet.
And we thought that's and ranright past us.
And we thought it's a bitstrange.
But then we looked, and therewere about 50 to 70 people just
running up Warrow Avenue, whichis where the church is uh based,
(03:02):
and our front door opens rightonto it, right onto the street.
So the footpath and the churchpeople were just looking at each
other.
We thought at first, I thoughtat first, and a few people also
thought they were laughing asthey were running, and we
thought, oh, they're revelingand celebrating.
Interesting, but but then werealized now they were crying,
and then they started a few ofthem started saying, Get inside,
(03:24):
get inside.
There's someone with a gun.
And so uh we realized this wasserious, and so we said come in,
and so we welcomed some of thosepeople who were running past
into the church building, whichas I said is directly onto the
street.
We came into the s in inside,um, and uh people are looking on
social media, not findinganything, so we didn't know
anything.
(03:44):
And I think we heard a few morenoises that were were now turned
out to be um shots.
Like that.
And so we closed the door and wehad um a few visitors we didn't
know who were with us, and wewelcomed a few other people in
who knocked on the door and letthem in, and we had a prayer
meeting.
We just prayed, um, not knowingvery much at all.
(04:07):
Uh and we stayed in that in thatsort of huddle in the church
building away from the anywindows, uh, and started hearing
helicopters and many, many, manysirens, police vehicles,
ambulances, um, helicopters, andso we realized this is big.
This this this is really big.
And in that context, some of thepeople who were there started
(04:28):
sharing stories about seeingpeople lying with their faces in
the ash belt and obviously notgood uh and blood and and these
sorts of things.
So it it dawned on us a littlebit what was happening, and then
some people started getting umInstagram and social media
things which highlighted thefact that we we were dealing
with something pretty big thatshaped our prayers in that
(04:51):
context.
Uh and um some of us went outinto the street because a few
neighbors uh in the immediate umvicinity of the church were were
worried and concerned, so wewent out to try and talk to them
and help them.
A few of our church members liveon the street also, and so we
helped direct traffic away fromgoing down because people are
still going to the beach andthis sort of thing, not not
(05:12):
aware what was happening.
And so there was a little wewere helping redirect things a
little bit.
Um but the prayer went well.
There were a few people in panicand teary in in the in the
church building as we heard moreand more information.
It was a little d drip feedingof information.
That's how it happenedinitially.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (05:32):
Kanishka, what was your experience last night?
SPEAKER_03 (05:35):
Uh I got a text um saying something's happened.
We turned the television on uhabout quarter to seven.
We were at home, Kaylee and Iwere at home, um, and uh we
couldn't believe our eyes.
Um we uh immediately prayed, umand uh and then we just waited
(05:55):
really and watched things unfolduh on the television.
I uh later on in the evening Icontacted uh Martin.
I uh spoke to the Dean, SandyGrant, to just to say to keep
the cathedral open today, uh andthere'll be um a special special
evening prayer service thisevening um and uh to prepare
(06:17):
prayer materials for people touse through the day.
Uh I spoke to our Anglicanprimate, um Mark Short, uh who
rang me um and uh to express hissupport for us as we um
responded to uh along witheverybody else in the community
what was going on.
Um I'm especially gratefulactually for Bondi Anglican and
(06:38):
uh just for the way that they umresponded uh in as helpful a way
as they could to it to anybodywho who needed that help.
And I know the church was open,I think, until past midnight,
uh, as people were um coming inthere and debriefing and having
cups of coffee and uh beingencouraged having prayers for
them.
Um I mean, it's just horrific.
(07:01):
Uh uh this morning I met withsome of the Jewish community
leaders and other faith leadersas well.
Uh and you know, there are acouple of themes.
Um one is that for the Jewishcommunity, the last two years at
least has been a constantexperience of uh anti-Semitic
(07:21):
attacks um in uh in in in um awhole variety of ways, some
institutional, many personal.
Uh we we remember the graffitiand so on, and uh public uh
demonstrations in which reallyterrible things have been said,
uh insightful and hatefulthings.
(07:42):
Um so it's really crucial uh atthis moment, and that is why
this faith leaders meeting washappening this morning.
So it was a scheduled meeting.
Uh no, no, no.
It was called at short notice.
Yeah.
Uh and uh I can't.
And everyone turned up.
Everybody turned up, uh calledby the uh Minister for
Multiculturalism, Steve Camper,uh, and held in the uh
(08:02):
parliament um parliamentaryoffices.
Everybody did turn up.
Um and uh um that was importantuh because we need to say that
we are all openly committed tothe welfare and safety of the
Jewish community.
That this kind of attack and thekind of anti-Semitism that we've
(08:23):
seen over the last two years isutterly unacceptable to us as as
an Australian community.
Um the Jewish community belong,uh we love them, we want to
stand with them, we want tosupport them, and we don't want
to give any uh um uh any room uhto this kind of hateful violence
(08:46):
aimed at the Jewish community inSydney.
SPEAKER_04 (08:49):
Ben Pakula, uh tell us about the evening as it
unfolded for you.
SPEAKER_00 (08:53):
Yeah, um it so happens I'm just started a week
of uh annual leave, and so I'mdown enjoying myself uh at a
little beach holiday placecalled Brow Lee, and um a dear
brother from uh the eveningcongregation where I pastor uh
messaged me and thankfully gotthrough because reception's not
(09:14):
real good, and said, Hey mate,just uh wanted to make sure that
you weren't there at Bondai.
And I thought, what's he talkingabout?
And um, of course, as itunfolded, I discovered what
happened, and uh then I thought,well, I better let my church
know that no, I wasn't there inBondi on uh on uh annual leave
down the down the coast.
(09:35):
And uh then I got bombarded withmessages not only from people
from church but all over theplace, uh being very kind and
positive, praying for you, forthe Jewish people, etc.
Uh one of the first things I didonce I'd worked out what had
happened was um get on uh a chatwith my own extended family and
make sure that they were allokay, uh, which they appreciated
(09:56):
the reach out.
And uh it so happens uh like Ido have um there are family
members of mine that live uh inMondo and who celebrate
Hanukkah.
Uh it so happens they theyweren't there, uh thankfully.
Um although some of the deceasedare known to members of my
extended family.
And uh to be honest, I find itdifficult to know how to
(10:19):
respond.
I know that that might soundstrange, but I I I I it took me
quite a long time to get tosleep last night, and I'm not
sure I've worked out why.
Uh I wonder if there's a sort ofan element of of of uh
understandable shock uh thatthat uh that I suppose is normal
to experience uh when when youhear stuff like this.
Uh and I I say shock, but Idon't say surprise.
(10:42):
I've actually thought thatthere's a great likelihood that
something like this uh wouldyeah almost certainly come
about.
So uh shock, yes, but not notthat I think I didn't expect
this.
I I did expect something likethis, really.
Uh I'm very sad to say.
SPEAKER_04 (11:00):
Martin, what's played out for you?
Uh I mean, as Kanishka said, youwent to bed very late last night
and probably didn't sleep well.
SPEAKER_01 (11:07):
I don't I don't think I slept well, no.
Um uh my the ministry team, thestaff team have have been um
very actively engaging withlocals, people from within our
congregation uh who were there,and just today um we've
discovered many of the peoplewho didn't come to deliver the
hampers were actually downthere.
(11:27):
Had already walked down to thebeach and were at restaurants or
at the beach or whatever.
And quite a few right now in theum Bondi Beach Church, um
they're still meeting andpraying and uh they're
comforting each other.
And there's stories I haven'tgot the details, but there's
stories of people holding peoplewho who'd been shot and talking
to them.
Members of your church.
Yeah, right.
And um word's gone out, it is ait's a fairly close sort of
(11:52):
grapevine or whatever in NorthBondi and Bondo Beach there.
And so we're having people comeinto that building.
Um, both of our churchbuildings, the St.
Mary's up at Bondo Junction orWaverley, and um the um beach uh
church site on on Warrow arejust really close to where it
was.
They've been open today, andpeople have been coming in just
quietly.
Um many people we don't knowhaving a little bit of a cry,
(12:15):
having a little prayer.
We've got little verses thatthey're reading.
Um I've talked to a few of themup at uh Bondo Junction, that's
where I was based this morning.
Some of them have lit candles,um, just expressing something,
grief, concern, prayers.
But down at the beach, um,there's quite a few people who
are gathering with my staffthere, and um uh some of the
(12:37):
Jewish community have have cometoo and and have have uh
appreciated the support.
I wasn't involved in thoseconversations because up there,
but um Matt Graham, who's my umassistant minister, um and he's
the pastor of the um church downthere, has fielded quite a few
questions from community andfrom media groups, and um he's
uh he's coordinating uh sort ofa pastoral response, I guess, to
(13:01):
the people there.
Offering cups of tea, um solace,just a place to sit.
It's a quite a nice spot to comein off the busy street after an
event like this and just uh sitand you know try and centre um
your thoughts.
So that's ongoing.
That's ongoing.
There's a um pastors, anAnglican um uh deanery meeting
(13:23):
group.
We're meeting at four o'clockthis afternoon, uh, and that's
been thrown open to otherpastors too, and it looks like
that's gonna be uh uh quite asignificant time of prayer um
down at the beachside.
And tonight we've got a existingplanned um nine lessons and
carols um service, which is moreformal with organ and and stuff,
(13:45):
but it was written after theFirst World War.
That that liturgy was uhpromoted to offer light um in
the context of a bleak time.
A very bleak time.
And so we're gonna continue withthat, but uh make sure it's
appropriate with um uh where weare at the moment in the
context.
Yeah.
Kanishka?
SPEAKER_03 (14:05):
Um this morning uh some of the Jewish community
leaders were saying um you know,it it's Hanukkah, it's the
festival of light.
Um if you want to express yoursupport, light a candle for
Hanukkah.
unknown (14:18):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (14:18):
Um do an act of kindness, do an act of charity.
Uh and I thought that was alovely thing for them to say in
this moment of grief, uh a wayof giving the community at large
uh a way of expressing thatsupport.
Um and I think that's going tocontinue to be uh very, very
(14:39):
significant uh in in the weeksthat come.
And I think you know, for thoseuh who have Jewish colleagues,
uh neighbors, friends, um reachout to them.
Uh say it out loud.
You matter.
You matter to me, you matter toGod.
We're so sorry that you'reexperiencing this terrible event
(15:00):
and we want to stand alongsideyou.
Uh because I've heard fromJewish friends over the last
couple of years that they felttremendously alone.
Uh and uh it doesn't take ummuch uh to say to say to
somebody, we care about you, andwe're standing alongside with
you.
(15:20):
I think Ben is keen to get in.
Ben, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:23):
Here, here, dear brother, thank you.
Um uh I I've personally havebeen the recipient of people
doing exactly what uh Kanishahas just said, and I think it's
really wonderful.
Uh and I think this is a a apositive from this.
Feels a bit wrong to speak for apositive, but a positive from
(15:43):
this is that, well, there arewonderful inroads to be made
with uh the the Jews that thatthat we rightly want to love uh
by just saying, yeah, I thinkwhat happens uh what what's been
happening is is atrocious.
And uh I want you to know we welove you, we appreciate you, uh
that that kind of thing.
I I think that that yeah, thatthat that speaks volumes.
SPEAKER_04 (16:03):
Ben, can you just explain to us because there'll
be people here listening um whodon't know what Hanukkah is
about?
SPEAKER_00 (16:10):
Oh uh yeah, Hanukkah, uh literally the
festival of lights.
Uh it's um it began in theinter-testamental period where
um uh I'm gonna get my historywrong here.
Might have been Antiochus,Epiphanes the Third or someone
after him.
The Seleucids uh attacked andconquered uh Jerusalem.
(16:32):
And unlike Alexander the Great,they were a bit more insistent
on the Jews uh rejecting theirown culture and heritage and
embracing the culture andheritage uh of uh their their
conquerors, and there are anumber of uh Jewish zealots who
wanted to hold uh to theirtradition, their roots, their
(16:52):
language.
A famous family uh known as theMaccabees uh were amongst those
(17:26):
zealots, and they uh throughguerrilla warfare, from what I
can work out, actually reclaimedthe temple uh which had been
ransacked.
And in order to uphold the kindof positivity around Jewish zeal
and nationalism, uh a storycirculated, and and I think it's
a myth, just like it's you know,Santa Claus and the Easter money
(17:48):
kind of thing, that when whenthe the temple was reclaimed,
there was only enough oil toburn in the lampstand for one
night, but miraculously, as asign from God about the goodness
of Jewish zeal, the the oilburned for eight nights.
Um and that's why Hanukkah is afestival that goes for eight
nights of of lighting candles asI guess a celebration of uh
(18:11):
Jewish independence andidentity.
And I think it is referred to inthe New Testament where Jesus uh
calls himself the the true lightof the world at at the festival,
and I think that's uh uh thefestival of of Hanukkah.
SPEAKER_04 (18:25):
So where does that leave you as a a Jew who's
become a Christian in terms ofcelebrating Hanukkah?
SPEAKER_00 (18:32):
Yeah, I have celebrated Hanukkah with my
family, and I'm more than happyto do so.
As a follower of Jesus, uh I amfree to uh uphold Jewish customs
or not uphold Jewish customs.
Obviously, I'm not free touphold things uh that compromise
faith or obedience to Jesus.
(18:52):
Uh for example, some of thebrachas or the prayers uh
include things that aren'tbiblical, like we thank you,
God, who commanded us to lightthe lights of Shabbat, for
example, and I won't say amen tothat, but I I want to embrace as
much of uh the the heritage ofIsrael because, well, frankly,
(19:14):
the God I worship is a Jewishman, and uh I got no problem
doing that.
And I have no problem not doingit either.
I think it's uh uh one of thewonderful things about knowing
Jesus, Lord, is we have freedomin Christ.
SPEAKER_04 (19:25):
So Kanishka, I was invited to a Hanukkah thing on
Thursday night, and theinvitation that I got said that
you were going.
SPEAKER_03 (19:32):
Yes, yes.
I was also invited to uhHanukkah um celebration at the
Great Synagogue.
Uh to tell you the truth, I'llmake I'm waiting to hear if it's
been cancelled.
I I don't know what its statusis now.
SPEAKER_04 (19:43):
Right, right, yeah.
Um, but it sounded like anopportunity to ex a particular I
mean, well, uh originally itwould have been planned to
celebrate Hanukkah, but as theywere inviting people like you
and me to go, I thought, ah,this could be an opportunity to
express support and expresssolidarity.
SPEAKER_03 (20:02):
Indeed, indeed.
And uh partly um I think I wasinvited um uh because we've made
some statements uh over the overthe last couple of years, uh,
and I think uh they invited meto address them briefly uh and
to read um a psalm.
SPEAKER_04 (20:17):
What we might do is if it's all right, is we might
just pray for the Jewishcommunity in Bondi.
And I mean all of us have gotdifferent aspects, but why don't
you start?
SPEAKER_03 (20:25):
Sure, yeah, yeah.
Uh gracious God and lovingHeavenly Father, we uh come to
you really with broken heartsover the terrible things that
have happened in Sydneyovernight.
We want to pray especially forthe Jewish community in Sydney
in grief, in shock, uhfrightened.
(20:47):
Uh Father, would you um comfort,uh draw near, set your angels uh
around the Jewish community inour city?
Would you keep them safe?
Um give them your peace.
And would you help us, Father,uh Australians of good will and
uh Christians especially,Father, would you help us uh to
(21:09):
be uh present, uh to be vocal insupport and to demonstrate love
and care towards our Jewishneighbors and friends.
Uh Father, we pray for peace inthis city.
We pray for all those who'vebeen impacted by these events as
they've watched them unfold uhon our television screen.
We pray especially for thegrieving, uh, for those who are
(21:32):
being treated in hospital.
Father, we need your help, andso we ask for these mercies in
Jesus' name.
SPEAKER_01 (21:39):
Amen.
Amen.
Dear Heavenly Father, thank youfor uh the fact that uh you're a
God who is the God of light, andwe thank you for the Lord Jesus,
we thank you for um the greatreminder that we come to at this
time that He did come, but wealso feel the the tension
between uh light and darkness.
(22:00):
And along with Kanishka, I prayfor those families who've lost
um uh members of their family orvery close friends, and I pray
that uh you would help them toprocess uh their thoughts and
their grief.
And I pray that you'd help thecommunity in Bondi, the general
community and the churchcommunity and the Jewish
community, the differentsynagogues affected, uh the
(22:21):
different um uh groupings, allto um have a uh a common uh
rejection of uh anti-Semiticactivity.
And I pray that um the um senseof unity and working together as
um as people who want to upholdthe truth um would would be
clear.
(22:41):
Lord, I pray for these comingdays and months and and years
that you'd help uh the uh theauthorities and uh the police
and the emergency services anddifferent community groups who
can do um things to improve thesituation, uh to do that.
And Lord, I pray that we'd umnot be uh um uh slack or relaxed
(23:06):
in in terms of security issues,but also Lord, I pray that you'd
just um guide um uh policy andsecurity and um particularly in
these in these coming days as werespond, people at Mpondi, the
the synagogues, the um Jewishcommunity particularly, and uh
(23:27):
the Christian community to uhrespond in a way which uh does
hold out light and hold outhope, even in the context of
this terrible tragic violence.
SPEAKER_00 (23:39):
Uh our Heavenly Father, um we find it hard uh
sometimes to see uh how yoursovereign goodness uh is at work
in events like this, but we knowthat it is, Father.
Uh Father, we uh pray uh thatthe true light of heaven that's
(24:02):
come into the world that we'reabout to celebrate at Christmas
uh would somehow through this bea light uh that shines uh to
your ancient chosen peopleIsrael, and that even through
this, where it seems from aworldly perspective that Jewish
identity would be even moreclamped down on and solidified,
(24:23):
that it may be the case, uh thatyou use even what's happened
here uh to see uh members ofelect Israel brought uh into
right relationship with you uhthrough the Lord Jesus.
Uh Father, we pray that maybethat would happen through the
love rightly uh shown byfollowers of Jesus uh to Jewish
(24:48):
friends and neighbor, neighborsand and family.
Um that uh somehow through thisthe the horrendous grief of uh
what's unfolded, uh there wouldbe uh joy that only really the
gospel can ever bring uh tosituations like this.
(25:09):
And uh yeah, we ask it in Jesus'name, Amen.
Amen.
SPEAKER_04 (25:13):
And Heavenly Father, in Sydney where life is so good,
um and in Bondi where life is sogood, we've been so interrupted
by this um reminder of sin andevil and hatred and everything
that is wrong with the world.
(25:34):
And Father, we pray that um thatas a consequence we might long
for heaven desperately and seethe wrong in our world and turn
to you.
We pray for the comfort that youoffer us in our affliction and
we pray that we might deeplygrasp the comfort of Jesus
(25:57):
Christ and so be able to comfortthose others who are in trouble
through the comfort that weourselves have received.
We pray that as the sufferingsof Christ have overflowed to us,
so through Christ our comfortmight overflow to them.
And uh Lord, we just rememberthat terrible massacre that
(26:20):
happened at the time of thebirth of Jesus and uh and the
crying out of uh uh in Rama umof Rachel weeping for her
children.
And as we weep and mourn inSydney today, um we just pray
that more and more people mightdeeply know Jesus, the
(26:43):
forgiveness, the acceptance, thelove, and that that might be the
posture of Christians to ourcommunity, and that people might
be saved.
And we pray this in Christ'sname.
Amen.
Amen.
Our guests on the Pastor'sHeart, Kanishka Raffle, the
Archbishop of Sydney, MartinMorgan, the senior minister at
Bondi Anglican Church, and BenPakula and uh Ben, a messianic
(27:09):
Jew from southwest of Sydney.
My name's Dominic Steele.
We're going to shuffle thingsaround with the Pastor's Heart
this week.
Uh, and so our regular episodeon Tuesday will be delayed a few
days, and uh, we'll be backthen.
It is the Pastor's Heart, embracing our Jewish
neighbours in love, friendshipand support, rejecting
anti-Semitism, violence andhatred.
That is the way of Jesus, saysthe Anglican Archbishop of
Sydney, Kanishka Raffle.
We are joined in a Pastor'sHeart special by the Archbishop
of Sydney, Kanishka, but alsothe minister of Bondi Anglican
(01:28):
Church, Martin Morgan, and BenPakula, an Anglican minister
from Sydney, but who is also aJew who has come to trust in the
Jewish Messiah.
It is less than twenty hourssince two gunmen opened fire on
a Jewish celebration at Sydney'sBondi Beach.
Martin Morgan was just a fewhundred metres away, leaving the
(01:48):
church building when theshooting happened and people
started running past.
Let's go first to Martin.
And Martin, take us through thelast 20 hours for you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
As you said, um we just finished our church
service.
It was a lovely church service,and um we were distributing some
hampers to neighbours in theimmediate area around the
church.
So uh a group of 20 or so peoplegrabbed some hampers and walking
into um different homes,knocking on doors, having
discussions, talking to them,and we'd just come back, and and
(02:21):
some of us were still comingback when we heard um some rapid
noises that sounded likefireworks, and we were convinced
it was fireworks.
Like that.
And uh didn't think much of it.
So we came into the churchbuilding, we were talking in the
foyer and uh chatting about thesermon, about the interactions
we've just had with um some ofthe people we've met in the
(02:41):
street.
And in that context, um one ladydressed in formal wear with her
sh holding her shoes, ran up thestreet.
And we thought that's and ranright past us.
And we thought it's a bitstrange.
But then we looked, and therewere about 50 to 70 people just
running up Warrow Avenue, whichis where the church is uh based,
(03:02):
and our front door opens rightonto it, right onto the street.
So the footpath and the churchpeople were just looking at each
other.
We thought at first, I thoughtat first, and a few people also
thought they were laughing asthey were running, and we
thought, oh, they're revelingand celebrating.
Interesting, but but then werealized now they were crying,
and then they started a few ofthem started saying, Get inside,
(03:24):
get inside.
There's someone with a gun.
And so uh we realized this wasserious, and so we said come in,
and so we welcomed some of thosepeople who were running past
into the church building, whichas I said is directly onto the
street.
We came into the s in inside,um, and uh people are looking on
social media, not findinganything, so we didn't know
anything.
(03:44):
And I think we heard a few morenoises that were were now turned
out to be um shots.
Like that.
And so we closed the door and wehad um a few visitors we didn't
know who were with us, and wewelcomed a few other people in
who knocked on the door and letthem in, and we had a prayer
meeting.
We just prayed, um, not knowingvery much at all.
(04:07):
Uh and we stayed in that in thatsort of huddle in the church
building away from the anywindows, uh, and started hearing
helicopters and many, many, manysirens, police vehicles,
ambulances, um, helicopters, andso we realized this is big.
This this this is really big.
And in that context, some of thepeople who were there started
(04:28):
sharing stories about seeingpeople lying with their faces in
the ash belt and obviously notgood uh and blood and and these
sorts of things.
So it it dawned on us a littlebit what was happening, and then
some people started getting umInstagram and social media
things which highlighted thefact that we we were dealing
with something pretty big thatshaped our prayers in that
(04:51):
context.
Uh and um some of us went outinto the street because a few
neighbors uh in the immediate umvicinity of the church were were
worried and concerned, so wewent out to try and talk to them
and help them.
A few of our church members liveon the street also, and so we
helped direct traffic away fromgoing down because people are
still going to the beach andthis sort of thing, not not
(05:12):
aware what was happening.
And so there was a little wewere helping redirect things a
little bit.
Um but the prayer went well.
There were a few people in panicand teary in in the in the
church building as we heard moreand more information.
It was a little d drip feedingof information.
That's how it happenedinitially.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (05:32):
Kanishka, what was your experience last night?
SPEAKER_03 (05:35):
Uh I got a text um saying something's happened.
We turned the television on uhabout quarter to seven.
We were at home, Kaylee and Iwere at home, um, and uh we
couldn't believe our eyes.
Um we uh immediately prayed, umand uh and then we just waited
(05:55):
really and watched things unfolduh on the television.
I uh later on in the evening Icontacted uh Martin.
I uh spoke to the Dean, SandyGrant, to just to say to keep
the cathedral open today, uh andthere'll be um a special special
evening prayer service thisevening um and uh to prepare
(06:17):
prayer materials for people touse through the day.
Uh I spoke to our Anglicanprimate, um Mark Short, uh who
rang me um and uh to express hissupport for us as we um
responded to uh along witheverybody else in the community
what was going on.
Um I'm especially gratefulactually for Bondi Anglican and
(06:38):
uh just for the way that they umresponded uh in as helpful a way
as they could to it to anybodywho who needed that help.
And I know the church was open,I think, until past midnight,
uh, as people were um coming inthere and debriefing and having
cups of coffee and uh beingencouraged having prayers for
them.
Um I mean, it's just horrific.
(07:01):
Uh uh this morning I met withsome of the Jewish community
leaders and other faith leadersas well.
Uh and you know, there are acouple of themes.
Um one is that for the Jewishcommunity, the last two years at
least has been a constantexperience of uh anti-Semitic
(07:21):
attacks um in uh in in in um awhole variety of ways, some
institutional, many personal.
Uh we we remember the graffitiand so on, and uh public uh
demonstrations in which reallyterrible things have been said,
uh insightful and hatefulthings.
(07:42):
Um so it's really crucial uh atthis moment, and that is why
this faith leaders meeting washappening this morning.
So it was a scheduled meeting.
Uh no, no, no.
It was called at short notice.
Yeah.
Uh and uh I can't.
And everyone turned up.
Everybody turned up, uh calledby the uh Minister for
Multiculturalism, Steve Camper,uh, and held in the uh
(08:02):
parliament um parliamentaryoffices.
Everybody did turn up.
Um and uh um that was importantuh because we need to say that
we are all openly committed tothe welfare and safety of the
Jewish community.
That this kind of attack and thekind of anti-Semitism that we've
(08:23):
seen over the last two years isutterly unacceptable to us as as
an Australian community.
Um the Jewish community belong,uh we love them, we want to
stand with them, we want tosupport them, and we don't want
to give any uh um uh any room uhto this kind of hateful violence
(08:46):
aimed at the Jewish community inSydney.
SPEAKER_04 (08:49):
Ben Pakula, uh tell us about the evening as it
unfolded for you.
SPEAKER_00 (08:53):
Yeah, um it so happens I'm just started a week
of uh annual leave, and so I'mdown enjoying myself uh at a
little beach holiday placecalled Brow Lee, and um a dear
brother from uh the eveningcongregation where I pastor uh
messaged me and thankfully gotthrough because reception's not
(09:14):
real good, and said, Hey mate,just uh wanted to make sure that
you weren't there at Bondai.
And I thought, what's he talkingabout?
And um, of course, as itunfolded, I discovered what
happened, and uh then I thought,well, I better let my church
know that no, I wasn't there inBondi on uh on uh annual leave
down the down the coast.
(09:35):
And uh then I got bombarded withmessages not only from people
from church but all over theplace, uh being very kind and
positive, praying for you, forthe Jewish people, etc.
Uh one of the first things I didonce I'd worked out what had
happened was um get on uh a chatwith my own extended family and
make sure that they were allokay, uh, which they appreciated
(09:56):
the reach out.
And uh it so happens uh like Ido have um there are family
members of mine that live uh inMondo and who celebrate
Hanukkah.
Uh it so happens they theyweren't there, uh thankfully.
Um although some of the deceasedare known to members of my
extended family.
And uh to be honest, I find itdifficult to know how to
(10:19):
respond.
I know that that might soundstrange, but I I I I it took me
quite a long time to get tosleep last night, and I'm not
sure I've worked out why.
Uh I wonder if there's a sort ofan element of of of uh
understandable shock uh thatthat uh that I suppose is normal
to experience uh when when youhear stuff like this.
Uh and I I say shock, but Idon't say surprise.
(10:42):
I've actually thought thatthere's a great likelihood that
something like this uh wouldyeah almost certainly come
about.
So uh shock, yes, but not notthat I think I didn't expect
this.
I I did expect something likethis, really.
Uh I'm very sad to say.
SPEAKER_04 (11:00):
Martin, what's played out for you?
Uh I mean, as Kanishka said, youwent to bed very late last night
and probably didn't sleep well.
SPEAKER_01 (11:07):
I don't I don't think I slept well, no.
Um uh my the ministry team, thestaff team have have been um
very actively engaging withlocals, people from within our
congregation uh who were there,and just today um we've
discovered many of the peoplewho didn't come to deliver the
hampers were actually downthere.
(11:27):
Had already walked down to thebeach and were at restaurants or
at the beach or whatever.
And quite a few right now in theum Bondi Beach Church, um
they're still meeting andpraying and uh they're
comforting each other.
And there's stories I haven'tgot the details, but there's
stories of people holding peoplewho who'd been shot and talking
to them.
Members of your church.
Yeah, right.
And um word's gone out, it is ait's a fairly close sort of
(11:52):
grapevine or whatever in NorthBondi and Bondo Beach there.
And so we're having people comeinto that building.
Um, both of our churchbuildings, the St.
Mary's up at Bondo Junction orWaverley, and um the um beach uh
church site on on Warrow arejust really close to where it
was.
They've been open today, andpeople have been coming in just
quietly.
Um many people we don't knowhaving a little bit of a cry,
(12:15):
having a little prayer.
We've got little verses thatthey're reading.
Um I've talked to a few of themup at uh Bondo Junction, that's
where I was based this morning.
Some of them have lit candles,um, just expressing something,
grief, concern, prayers.
But down at the beach, um,there's quite a few people who
are gathering with my staffthere, and um uh some of the
(12:37):
Jewish community have have cometoo and and have have uh
appreciated the support.
I wasn't involved in thoseconversations because up there,
but um Matt Graham, who's my umassistant minister, um and he's
the pastor of the um church downthere, has fielded quite a few
questions from community andfrom media groups, and um he's
uh he's coordinating uh sort ofa pastoral response, I guess, to
(13:01):
the people there.
Offering cups of tea, um solace,just a place to sit.
It's a quite a nice spot to comein off the busy street after an
event like this and just uh sitand you know try and centre um
your thoughts.
So that's ongoing.
That's ongoing.
There's a um pastors, anAnglican um uh deanery meeting
(13:23):
group.
We're meeting at four o'clockthis afternoon, uh, and that's
been thrown open to otherpastors too, and it looks like
that's gonna be uh uh quite asignificant time of prayer um
down at the beachside.
And tonight we've got a existingplanned um nine lessons and
carols um service, which is moreformal with organ and and stuff,
(13:45):
but it was written after theFirst World War.
That that liturgy was uhpromoted to offer light um in
the context of a bleak time.
A very bleak time.
And so we're gonna continue withthat, but uh make sure it's
appropriate with um uh where weare at the moment in the
context.
Yeah.
Kanishka?
SPEAKER_03 (14:05):
Um this morning uh some of the Jewish community
leaders were saying um you know,it it's Hanukkah, it's the
festival of light.
Um if you want to express yoursupport, light a candle for
Hanukkah.
unknown (14:18):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (14:18):
Um do an act of kindness, do an act of charity.
Uh and I thought that was alovely thing for them to say in
this moment of grief, uh a wayof giving the community at large
uh a way of expressing thatsupport.
Um and I think that's going tocontinue to be uh very, very
(14:39):
significant uh in in the weeksthat come.
And I think you know, for thoseuh who have Jewish colleagues,
uh neighbors, friends, um reachout to them.
Uh say it out loud.
You matter.
You matter to me, you matter toGod.
We're so sorry that you'reexperiencing this terrible event
(15:00):
and we want to stand alongsideyou.
Uh because I've heard fromJewish friends over the last
couple of years that they felttremendously alone.
Uh and uh it doesn't take ummuch uh to say to say to
somebody, we care about you, andwe're standing alongside with
you.
(15:20):
I think Ben is keen to get in.
Ben, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:23):
Here, here, dear brother, thank you.
Um uh I I've personally havebeen the recipient of people
doing exactly what uh Kanishahas just said, and I think it's
really wonderful.
Uh and I think this is a a apositive from this.
Feels a bit wrong to speak for apositive, but a positive from
(15:43):
this is that, well, there arewonderful inroads to be made
with uh the the Jews that thatthat we rightly want to love uh
by just saying, yeah, I thinkwhat happens uh what what's been
happening is is atrocious.
And uh I want you to know we welove you, we appreciate you, uh
that that kind of thing.
I I think that that yeah, thatthat that speaks volumes.
SPEAKER_04 (16:03):
Ben, can you just explain to us because there'll
be people here listening um whodon't know what Hanukkah is
about?
SPEAKER_00 (16:10):
Oh uh yeah, Hanukkah, uh literally the
festival of lights.
Uh it's um it began in theinter-testamental period where
um uh I'm gonna get my historywrong here.
Might have been Antiochus,Epiphanes the Third or someone
after him.
The Seleucids uh attacked andconquered uh Jerusalem.
(16:32):
And unlike Alexander the Great,they were a bit more insistent
on the Jews uh rejecting theirown culture and heritage and
embracing the culture andheritage uh of uh their their
conquerors, and there are anumber of uh Jewish zealots who
wanted to hold uh to theirtradition, their roots, their
(16:52):
language.
A famous family uh known as theMaccabees uh were amongst those
(17:26):
zealots, and they uh throughguerrilla warfare, from what I
can work out, actually reclaimedthe temple uh which had been
ransacked.
And in order to uphold the kindof positivity around Jewish zeal
and nationalism, uh a storycirculated, and and I think it's
a myth, just like it's you know,Santa Claus and the Easter money
(17:48):
kind of thing, that when whenthe the temple was reclaimed,
there was only enough oil toburn in the lampstand for one
night, but miraculously, as asign from God about the goodness
of Jewish zeal, the the oilburned for eight nights.
Um and that's why Hanukkah is afestival that goes for eight
nights of of lighting candles asI guess a celebration of uh
(18:11):
Jewish independence andidentity.
And I think it is referred to inthe New Testament where Jesus uh
calls himself the the true lightof the world at at the festival,
and I think that's uh uh thefestival of of Hanukkah.
SPEAKER_04 (18:25):
So where does that leave you as a a Jew who's
become a Christian in terms ofcelebrating Hanukkah?
SPEAKER_00 (18:32):
Yeah, I have celebrated Hanukkah with my
family, and I'm more than happyto do so.
As a follower of Jesus, uh I amfree to uh uphold Jewish customs
or not uphold Jewish customs.
Obviously, I'm not free touphold things uh that compromise
faith or obedience to Jesus.
(18:52):
Uh for example, some of thebrachas or the prayers uh
include things that aren'tbiblical, like we thank you,
God, who commanded us to lightthe lights of Shabbat, for
example, and I won't say amen tothat, but I I want to embrace as
much of uh the the heritage ofIsrael because, well, frankly,
(19:14):
the God I worship is a Jewishman, and uh I got no problem
doing that.
And I have no problem not doingit either.
I think it's uh uh one of thewonderful things about knowing
Jesus, Lord, is we have freedomin Christ.
SPEAKER_04 (19:25):
So Kanishka, I was invited to a Hanukkah thing on
Thursday night, and theinvitation that I got said that
you were going.
SPEAKER_03 (19:32):
Yes, yes.
I was also invited to uhHanukkah um celebration at the
Great Synagogue.
Uh to tell you the truth, I'llmake I'm waiting to hear if it's
been cancelled.
I I don't know what its statusis now.
SPEAKER_04 (19:43):
Right, right, yeah.
Um, but it sounded like anopportunity to ex a particular I
mean, well, uh originally itwould have been planned to
celebrate Hanukkah, but as theywere inviting people like you
and me to go, I thought, ah,this could be an opportunity to
express support and expresssolidarity.
SPEAKER_03 (20:02):
Indeed, indeed.
And uh partly um I think I wasinvited um uh because we've made
some statements uh over the overthe last couple of years, uh,
and I think uh they invited meto address them briefly uh and
to read um a psalm.
SPEAKER_04 (20:17):
What we might do is if it's all right, is we might
just pray for the Jewishcommunity in Bondi.
And I mean all of us have gotdifferent aspects, but why don't
you start?
SPEAKER_03 (20:25):
Sure, yeah, yeah.
Uh gracious God and lovingHeavenly Father, we uh come to
you really with broken heartsover the terrible things that
have happened in Sydneyovernight.
We want to pray especially forthe Jewish community in Sydney
in grief, in shock, uhfrightened.
(20:47):
Uh Father, would you um comfort,uh draw near, set your angels uh
around the Jewish community inour city?
Would you keep them safe?
Um give them your peace.
And would you help us, Father,uh Australians of good will and
uh Christians especially,Father, would you help us uh to
(21:09):
be uh present, uh to be vocal insupport and to demonstrate love
and care towards our Jewishneighbors and friends.
Uh Father, we pray for peace inthis city.
We pray for all those who'vebeen impacted by these events as
they've watched them unfold uhon our television screen.
We pray especially for thegrieving, uh, for those who are
(21:32):
being treated in hospital.
Father, we need your help, andso we ask for these mercies in
Jesus' name.
SPEAKER_01 (21:39):
Amen.
Amen.
Dear Heavenly Father, thank youfor uh the fact that uh you're a
God who is the God of light, andwe thank you for the Lord Jesus,
we thank you for um the greatreminder that we come to at this
time that He did come, but wealso feel the the tension
between uh light and darkness.
(22:00):
And along with Kanishka, I prayfor those families who've lost
um uh members of their family orvery close friends, and I pray
that uh you would help them toprocess uh their thoughts and
their grief.
And I pray that you'd help thecommunity in Bondi, the general
community and the churchcommunity and the Jewish
community, the differentsynagogues affected, uh the
(22:21):
different um uh groupings, allto um have a uh a common uh
rejection of uh anti-Semiticactivity.
And I pray that um the um senseof unity and working together as
um as people who want to upholdthe truth um would would be
clear.
(22:41):
Lord, I pray for these comingdays and months and and years
that you'd help uh the uh theauthorities and uh the police
and the emergency services anddifferent community groups who
can do um things to improve thesituation, uh to do that.
And Lord, I pray that we'd umnot be uh um uh slack or relaxed
(23:06):
in in terms of security issues,but also Lord, I pray that you'd
just um guide um uh policy andsecurity and um particularly in
these in these coming days as werespond, people at Mpondi, the
the synagogues, the um Jewishcommunity particularly, and uh
(23:27):
the Christian community to uhrespond in a way which uh does
hold out light and hold outhope, even in the context of
this terrible tragic violence.
SPEAKER_00 (23:39):
Uh our Heavenly Father, um we find it hard uh
sometimes to see uh how yoursovereign goodness uh is at work
in events like this, but we knowthat it is, Father.
Uh Father, we uh pray uh thatthe true light of heaven that's
(24:02):
come into the world that we'reabout to celebrate at Christmas
uh would somehow through this bea light uh that shines uh to
your ancient chosen peopleIsrael, and that even through
this, where it seems from aworldly perspective that Jewish
identity would be even moreclamped down on and solidified,
(24:23):
that it may be the case, uh thatyou use even what's happened
here uh to see uh members ofelect Israel brought uh into
right relationship with you uhthrough the Lord Jesus.
Uh Father, we pray that maybethat would happen through the
love rightly uh shown byfollowers of Jesus uh to Jewish
(24:48):
friends and neighbor, neighborsand and family.
Um that uh somehow through thisthe the horrendous grief of uh
what's unfolded, uh there wouldbe uh joy that only really the
gospel can ever bring uh tosituations like this.
(25:09):
And uh yeah, we ask it in Jesus'name, Amen.
Amen.
SPEAKER_04 (25:13):
And Heavenly Father, in Sydney where life is so good,
um and in Bondi where life is sogood, we've been so interrupted
by this um reminder of sin andevil and hatred and everything
that is wrong with the world.
(25:34):
And Father, we pray that um thatas a consequence we might long
for heaven desperately and seethe wrong in our world and turn
to you.
We pray for the comfort that youoffer us in our affliction and
we pray that we might deeplygrasp the comfort of Jesus
(25:57):
Christ and so be able to comfortthose others who are in trouble
through the comfort that weourselves have received.
We pray that as the sufferingsof Christ have overflowed to us,
so through Christ our comfortmight overflow to them.
And uh Lord, we just rememberthat terrible massacre that
(26:20):
happened at the time of thebirth of Jesus and uh and the
crying out of uh uh in Rama umof Rachel weeping for her
children.
And as we weep and mourn inSydney today, um we just pray
that more and more people mightdeeply know Jesus, the
(26:43):
forgiveness, the acceptance, thelove, and that that might be the
posture of Christians to ourcommunity, and that people might
be saved.
And we pray this in Christ'sname.
Amen.
Amen.
Our guests on the Pastor'sHeart, Kanishka Raffle, the
Archbishop of Sydney, MartinMorgan, the senior minister at
Bondi Anglican Church, and BenPakula and uh Ben, a messianic
(27:09):
Jew from southwest of Sydney.
My name's Dominic Steele.
We're going to shuffle thingsaround with the Pastor's Heart
this week.
Uh, and so our regular episodeon Tuesday will be delayed a few
days, and uh, we'll be backthen.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
The Brothers Ortiz
The Brothers Ortiz is the story of two brothers–both successful, but in very different ways. Gabe Ortiz becomes a third-highest ranking officer in all of Texas while his younger brother Larry climbs the ranks in Puro Tango Blast, a notorious Texas Prison gang. Gabe doesn’t know all the details of his brother’s nefarious dealings, and he’s made a point not to ask, to protect their relationship. But when Larry is murdered during a home invasion in a rented beach house, Gabe has no choice but to look into what happened that night. To solve Larry’s murder, Gabe, and the whole Ortiz family, must ask each other tough questions.