Episode 1286: Learning from the Martyrdom of José Calvo Sotelo w/ Karl Dahl

84 Minutes

PG-13

Karl Dahl is an author specializing in the Spanish Civil War and historical "fiction."

Karl and Pete discuss the martyrdom of Jose Calvo Sotelo, which marked a turning point for the Right in Spain in 1936.

Now and Then: The Murder of José Calvo Sotelo

Faction: With the Crusaders

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:38):
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(01:18):
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support me there. And I just want to thank everyone.
It's because of you that I can put out the
amount of material that I do. I can do what
I'm doing with doctor Johnson on two hundred Years Together
and everything else, the things that Thomas and I are
doing together on kindinal philosophy, it's all because of you.

(01:40):
And yeah, I mean, I'll never be able to thank
you enough. So thank you. The pekan Yonashow dot com.
Everything's there. I want to welcome everyone back to the
Peking Yona show. Carl dolls back, what's up girl?

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Not much, Pete happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Awesome, Awesome. Let's continue talking about the Spanish Civil War.
And there's a collection of episodes that we have that
I call, you know, like specific subjects, like targeted targeted subjects,
that I release every once in a while as a
large file for people to listen to. They can have

(02:20):
it all on one spot. And I assume this one
is going. This one will definitely be added on to that.
But this is a really this is important, and this
is one of those one of those things that once
you understand the story of Jose Calvo Sotelo, you you

(02:42):
can start understanding that if something isn't done pretty quickly,
this is the kind of direction we're headed. So yeah,
I'll turn it over to you.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah. So I have to point out on my substant
zac I published many pieces. It's typically research that I've
done with primary sources or like one one source removed
that's really good summary material using Spanish primary sources, Spanish

(03:19):
language material. And in this case, I have two articles
now in the Now and Then series by my friend Morgre,
who's a Spanish friend and correspondent he helped me with
a lot of like Spanish language idiom and a little

(03:40):
bit of research validating some of the assumptions that I
was making based on my own studies of material when
I was working on with the Crusaders. And so he's
the one who helped with the Negra to brilliante uh

(04:02):
turn of phrase that that I had to add to
that story for a nice twist, And he has really
enjoyed diving into the subject himself. He's one of us.
And the environment in Spain is really interesting because there's
all this great material and there's a subset of the

(04:24):
population that knows the score it. In Spain, the the
academy and the government are acting like, uh, you know,
the the Western misperception, propaganda, propaganda driven misperception of the

(04:48):
war is correct, but they have way too much evidence
to the contrary from primary sources that really explain the situation,
and that that creates a big challenge for them in
the Academy, and they have their own kind of you know,

(05:09):
correcting the record revisionist population that has to play a
little bit to the uh you know, the the current
powers that be while also having a realistic conversation on
the subject of what was actually going on. So for example,
you know, one of the big elements is that there

(05:30):
was no there was no happy middle ground like you know,
democratic Republic that wasn't Bolshevik, and the anarchists weren't just
these you know, kind of libertarian hippies who wanted to
be left alone. Man, you know, that's totally not the case.

(05:52):
You have to you have to deal with the reality
of the people, and you don't see this kind of
in so many of the English language sources. Stanley Pain's
an exception, but you know, the big boys Bevoir, Preston, Thomas, etc.

(06:15):
Aren't going to bring you the material that we have here,
which is taken from very good sources that can be
found all over the internet in Spanish that Morgore has
translated for us with an introduction. His motivation for this
was when Charlie Kirk was shot. He immediately was like,

(06:38):
you know, there's elements that are related to this, but
he agreed with me, which is that you know, Charlie
Kirk is going to be a martyr figure and he's
an early, like you said, Pete, warning of where this
is going to go if we don't change direction and
the direction change has to be done by the government,

(07:00):
and we have the Trump and his people in the
administration right now. We absolutely need them to step in
and intervene and be the legitimate system that will uphold order,
because you can't do this onesie twosie light touch thing

(07:21):
that will just like push it out into the future
and you really have to crush these people. So that
was the motivation for this piece. There's a large section
well there's a section of kind of opinion and observation,
a summary of the life of Jose Calvo Sotello, who

(07:41):
was a Spanish parliamentarian who was murdered which essentially set
things in motion for the military uprising which caused the
Spanish Civil War. And we have great detail about the
actual night of the murder, in the days beforehand, what

(08:02):
was taking place in the government, where they made the
arrangements which made this possible from like a security perspective.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
And I think people need to understand that the you
know when you hear that the government, yeah, basically they
it was elements inside the arment they planned this, they said,
you know, this must be done. People need to realize
that they didn't go out obviously they didn't go out
to do it. They sent there was it the civil goda.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Uh largely, and they also had assault guards and some
other ullet Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, so you're not gonna have You're probably not going
to have that in this country because they've already built
up an army on the street. So what people I
think need to understand is is that you can make
fun of these people all you want. These people who

(09:04):
show up at protests and are black block and masks,
and whenever they get arrested, you get to see the
you get to see the mug shots, and you get
to laugh at them. These are people who have nothing
to lose, they have no life whatsoever, and they're just waiting.

(09:26):
They're waiting to be told, yeah, sure you can go.
We're not going to stop you if you start killing
our enemies. And once you realize that that is that's
what it is that you will have, it will come
off as random violence. But really it's top down because

(09:49):
it's always top down.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Sorry, Yeah, they have to create the conditions that make
it possible, and that comes from the top down.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Correct. So even though once you go through the story
and you see exactly who the players were, you need
to understand that those these people are already out there
and yep, they're They're not going to They have no one.

(10:18):
They're not going to answer to anyone unless people decide
now to make them answer, Because it's unless you get
this rained in now, it's going to be much more
difficult to rein it in later because this is not
going to jump off the way it will when Donald
Trump is president or even a Trump kind of person

(10:41):
as president. But unless you crush these people now, there
will be somebody who is who wants to kill you
because of what you believe, that will get in office.
And that's when these people or the ones that come
after them will be activated. And I know people don't
want to believe that, but when you start studying who

(11:03):
like the leftists were the people on the left in
the Spanish Civil War, these weren't impressive people. No, these
before scum. They were no different than the anti fight
you're making fun of when you see their mugshots. Yet
how many people did they kill? How many people did
they execute?

Speaker 2 (11:22):
There is a I'm going to be doing a show
with Astral after Halloween on Annoker. Anarcho tyranny and Bioleninism
as it relates to Spain and as well as just
those pieces, so like Sam Francis on anarcho tyranny and

(11:43):
spandrel on Bioleninism. And if you go through and you
look at the photos of the to your point, Pete,
the photos of the leaders of the left in Spain,
they all look like degenerates, single one of them. None
of them are handsome, none of them look in the

(12:08):
least bit like ordered. It's it's completely crazy when you
see that. And it's like you said, it's just like
when you see the mugshot of the Antifa types. It's
just these degenerates. And it's an interesting it's an interesting
process because there's a little bit of a chicken and

(12:28):
egg thing going on there. There's there's interesting arguments to
be had there and a lot of a lot of
work has been done by psychiatrists in the past on
this subject. But that is a conversation for another time. Well,
why don't you talk a little bit about the you know,

(12:50):
the the meeting of the politicians and what leads up
to this. Okay, great, so shall we consult the piece please,
let's do it. Okay, great, So I'm going to cruise down.
Shall we start out with a just kind of an
overview of who Jose Calvo Sotela was and who he represented.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
Absolutely, but I would, I would. I think it's hilarious.
I realized this the other day that both sides of
my family come from Galicia.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Interesting, came to this kind of like, came to this
kind like I have relatives that came from Galicia in Spain,
you know, or I mean really is that Spain or
Portugal historically? Who knows? Yes, it could be France too,
but you know, also, you know, my my great grandparents

(13:46):
escaped Galicia to get away from the murderous psychopaths there
in nineteen cent in nineteen eleven. That's the one up
in the corner in the other corner of the of
the peninsula.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, yeah, I believe. I believe more grs from from Galicia.
I believe he's Galician?

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Uh is he basked?

Speaker 2 (14:07):
I don't have a way of knowing, but yeah, I
believe so.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Wouldn't be wouldn't be surprising if he was.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Oh, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Genetically the vast majority of especially northern Spaniards, are going
to show up as quote unquote asque.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Well, especially the ones that are racially aware.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
So.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Should I just read directly from the piece? Yeah, go ahead, Okay,
it'd be nice for for an episode like this where
I don't have to read. So you have the most
melodious voice. But I will. I will happily dive into
this so so now and then the Murder of Jose

(14:53):
Calvo Sotelo. I begin with a brief biography of Jose
Calvo Sotelo, as it is apprope to have an understanding
of the man whose murder we are discussing. Jose Calvo
Sotelo was born in Tui, Galicia, on May sixth, eighteen
ninety three, to a deeply religious, middle class family. In

(15:14):
his early years, he proved to be a very capable
and intelligent young man who easily scored in the top
of his class. He began work on his bachelor's degree
at the University of Daragotha in nineteen oh nine, where
he showed great aptitude for the sciences and languages, but
like Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera, he was drawn to

(15:34):
the law. As a student, he took many small jobs
such as artist or tutor, to aid his family while
still excelling in academics. He graduated in nineteen twelve. Armed
with his bachelors, he undertook doctoral studies at the University
of Madrid, where he became extremely close to his professor

(15:55):
Gumersindo Ascarate, who eventually nominated his thesis for an Extraordinary
Doctorate award. I checked it out. Extraordinary Doctorate award is
like the top person in every field of study in Spain,

(16:16):
whether it's at the university level or nationally, that they
kind of call it the same thing. So shortly after
completing his studies, Jose Calvo Sotelo applied for the public
examination to work in the Ministry of Justice. And keep
in mind he's like twenty one years old at this time.
While preparing for his upcoming exams, he became a familiar

(16:39):
site in debate circles at Madrid's many libraries in athenaeums.
Here Calvo Sotello would meet many of his future political foes,
such as Manuel Azagna and a Hell Galarza. It was
around nineteen fifteen, when he was appointed Secretary of Politics
and Moral Sciences, when Calvo Sotello became a supporter of Maurismo,

(17:02):
a truly reactionary conservative faction led by Antonio Mora, which
broke off in a schism within the contemporary Conservative Party
and then my editor's note, the Conservative and Liberal parties
had participated in the Torno Pacifico, the peaceful turn, in
which leadership of the government was handed off between the

(17:24):
two parties in fixed intervals over several decades, a real
life example of the conservative quote, if you use government power,
the opposition will simply use that same power against you,
So never do anything for your constituency unquote mentality. In
nineteen sixteen, at the age of twenty three, he became

(17:48):
a state attorney after achieving a perfect examination score. In
a twist of fate, Calvo Sotello was assigned to Toledo,
where he met Henriqueta de Grondona, daughter of a wealthy
and prominent civil engineer, whom he would wed a year later.
In nineteen nineteen, Antonio Mora selected Calvo Sotello to become

(18:11):
an electoral candidate for his faction, and in the following
elections he became a member of Parliament, a position he
lost the following year. In nineteen twenty one, with grave
disasters such as the murder of Eduardo Datto by Catalan
anarchists and the disaster of Anyual, an earth shaking defeat

(18:33):
of the Spanish army in the Moroccan Riff War. New
elections were held in which the Mourists surged, Mora became
president again and Calvo Sotella was appointed Governor of Valencia.
All changed drastically the thirteenth of September nineteen twenty three,
with a military coup d'eta led by General Primo de Rivera,

(18:57):
driven by reactionary elements who were done with the weakness
of the parliament and useless squabbling of the politicians, and
sought to quote regenerate Spain. Calvo Sotello strongly ascribed to
these ideas and became a vocal supporter of the dictatorship.
He was soon appointed General Administration Director, and later in

(19:18):
nineteen twenty five he was appointed Chief of the Revenue Ministry,
where he carried out many innovative tax reforms, which would
result in some people calling him a quote communist. So
this is that third position that the Spanish right was
shifting towards, particularly the younger Spanish right. In nineteen thirty,

(19:40):
shortly after the death of old age of General Primo
de Rivera. In the global stock market crash of nineteen
twenty nine, Calvo Sotello and many former ministers of the
dictatorship decided to band together to create a party which
quote carried the spirit and will of Primo de Rivera unquote.
To help Spain recover. They sought the aid of General Behringer,

(20:03):
the then dictator, to form a government, But with mood
brought about by the victory of Republican and left wing
parties in the nineteen thirty one elections, Calvo Sotello fled
to Portugal. The painful birth of the Republic, celebrated with
looting and the destruction of churches, deeply tarnished Calvo Sotello's

(20:23):
belief in helping Spain recover via political means. Nonetheless, he
became a Morrist candidate for Orense Galicia in the hope
that the law of pardons would be applied to him
in the same manner it was applied to Communist criminals
such as Largo Caballero and Julian Bastieiro, who had led

(20:43):
the strike of nineteen seventeen. Side note, Morriger is going
to do an article about Largo Caballero, for whom there
just isn't a lot of really good English language material.
There are some new biographies that are availed. There's one
where that the title and again the Spanish language only,

(21:05):
the title is essentially Largo Caballero Spain's Lenin or the
Spanish Lenin. So that will because.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
Didn't he when he was in jail, didn't he call
himself that he referred to himself when he was in jail.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, even though the party he represented wasn't a per
se Bolshevik party, it was a Spanish kind of national
socialist quote unquote party in the in a left sense.
But he converted to Marxist Leninism while he was in
prison and then was totally open about it. Okay. However,

(21:43):
the Republicans sought to persecute those who had quote collaborated
with the dictatorship and created a special court, which further
soured Calvo Sotello's opinion on the republic. In nineteen thirty three,
Calvo Sotelo established residence in Paris, where he networked with
and learned from personalities such as Charles Morris of Action

(22:04):
Action Fransei and established ties with the Italian government via
Italo Balbo, even meeting Il Duce himself in Rome to
garner support for the conservative movement of Spain. Yet his
most important role during exile was as a conduit between
the Carlists and Alfonsiss to create a unified monarchist element.

(22:26):
With the passing of an amnesty law in April nineteen
thirty four and the resounding defeat of the Left in
the nineteen thirty four general elections, Calvo Sotelo returned to
Spain as a member of Parliament for the party Renovasion Espanola.
And here's an image from a Renovasion Espaniola event. Excellent.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
That flag is incredible energy.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Incredible energy, and that look at that carpet, that rug
incredb Yeah, all right. His political career after returning to
Spain as well known s specifically because he became an
icon of the right, which the leftists sought more than

(23:12):
any other to cast down, not only because he was
staunch in his assertions, but because he had served in
government during the dictatorship and was thus a collaborator. The
left was truly out for blood, which in his case
would be realized that tragic night of July twelfth, nineteen
thirty six. If this murder was not quote unquote premeditated,

(23:33):
it had been announced multiple times in the days prior.
It was during a session of parliament on June sixteenth,
nineteen thirty six, when then Minister of War Santiago casares
Kiroga threatened Jose Calvo Sotelo a mid thunderous support from
fellow leftists who began shouting, hail the Red Army. They're

(23:57):
just stop right, let's stop right there. We're just they're
just liberal democrats.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
I mean, this is a republican Is this a republican government?

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Incredible?

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Oh yeah, See what happened in Spain was they elected
this republican government and everything was going to be great,
and a bunch of fascists rose up to overthrow the
republican government. That was shouting hail the Red Army.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
And for those who don't know, the Spanish Republic's army
had red rank insignia with red stars on it and
was led by they were advised and sometimes led directly
by NKVD, and always NKVD trained and led officers. This

(24:57):
was a communist operation run by the Soviets.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
In West was republican. It was Republican. It says, it's
that's their name. Their name are Republicans, and you a Republican.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
It's incredible, it's incredible. That very day, the commander of
the core of Carabinero's and close friend of Cassaris Kiroga,
Luis Barcelo, said, quote, I will kill him myself unquote.
On June twenty ninth, then General Security Chief Alonzo Molol

(25:39):
called agents Jose Gariga Pateo, a communist fully loyal to
the Popular Front. The Popular Front was the UH, basically
the coalition of leftist communist et cetera parties that were
running the government, and Rodolfo Serrano de la Parte, a
close friend of Cassaris Kiroga, to his office to replace

(26:02):
the current agents who were then assigned to guard Calvo Sotello.
So they handpicked leftists to be his guards. The following day,
staff Sergeant Lorenzo Aguire Sanchez briefed the two men that
their task was not one of protection, but of espionage.
They were to report on Calvo Sotello's schedule and the

(26:25):
identities of everyone that met with him. Two days later,
the very same sergeant informed the men, per orders from
the Security chief that if an attempt on the life
of Calvo Sotello were made in a public place with witnesses,
they should pretend to protect him, but if it happened
in a place without witnesses, they should be sure to

(26:46):
finish him off. And here's Santiago casars kiroga, who looks
like a worm.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, I mean, it's amazing the how the physiognomy never
fails on these people. Never, never, And we're not talking
about just no, the kind of physiognomy that we normally
talk about. We're talking about just you know, the Mystery
Grove tweet. Yeah, just ugly, ugly people. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
You can tell if you do a line chart, you know,
the eye, top of the ear, et cetera. That's not
that's not what we're talking about here, right, Yeah, yeah,
all right. Unfortunately for the conspirators, agent Ridolfo Serrano had
a conscience. He spoke of this troubling revelation with Jaiquin

(27:40):
Bao Nola, a Carlist member of Parliament and close friend
of Calvo Sotello. Upon hearing this news, mister Boo immediately
visited the office of the Minister of Government to confront
him about this outrageous order. Minister Alfredo Moles denied having
given such an order. The following day, Bao and Calvo

(28:01):
Sotello visited the office, now more alarmed than before, in
demanding explanations. Molis downplayed their alarm, saying that it was
quote unquote trash talk from a couple of officers, to
which Calvo Sotello rightfully angered, asked the minister are we
their buddies or members of the government. In the early

(28:23):
evening hours of July twelfth, Assault Guard Lieutenant Jose del
Castillo was assassinated by suspected members of the Falonghei, although
succeeding events prevented the government from confirming who had murdered him.
Upon hearing this news, an emergency cabinet meeting regarding retaliation

(28:44):
further murder of Lieutenant del Castillo was conducted between Alfredo Molis,
Cassaris Kiroga, and Alonzo Molol, with commander of the Guardia
de Asalto the Assault Guards, Ricardo Burio Sotole, Lieutenant Maxi
Simo Moreno, and Captain of the Guardia Seville, Fernando Condes.

(29:06):
After a heated discussion, it was agreed that they would
arrest high profile right wing figures and defined a list
of suspects, to which they added a few standing members
of parliament, Hey why not, among which were Jose Maria
gil Roblez and Jose Calvo Sotello. During the early hours
of July thirteenth, Fernando Condes gathered a number of men

(29:29):
at the Pontejo Sparrax. The most important names among them,
aside from Condes were Victoriano Juenka aka Luis Quenka Estevas,
a hitman, bodyguard and close friend of the socialist Indalethio
Prieto known as the Cuban, Jose Rey Hernandez, bodyguard and

(29:51):
close friend of the socialist Margharita Nelkin interesting last name,
Frederico Federico co Garcia, medical student, socialist and coost friend,
close friend of Indalethio Prieto, and Anetheto Castro Piniera, member
of the Guardia dia Salto, who would later confess to

(30:14):
the events which transpired. There were a total of fourteen
men in a van, followed by a car with five more.
The van is interesting, We have a picture of it
in this article. It's of the era, very narrow. The group,
after a fruitless hunt for Jose gil Robles, who was
away from Madrid, decided to drive to Velasquez Street number

(30:38):
eighty nine, the home of Calvo Sotelo. So I'll point
out Jose gil Robles. I have an article in here
that Morger also wrote, which is translating a speech that
Jose gil Roblez gave in the Cortes after the assassination
of Calvo Sotello, which basically stated the right place case

(31:00):
and why they were done with talking anymore. Jose Guilrobles
was the leader of SEEDA, which was that coalition government,
and Jose Calvo Sotelo wasn't the leader, but he was
like one of the most prominent figures of that renovasion Espanola,
which was that that royalist faction. Condes and Quenka left

(31:28):
the van at Calvo Sotello's home with a group of
guardia who surrounded the building. The rest followed Condes and
Quenka inside, where they knocked on the door and were
met by a maid. And remember this is like two
or three in the morning. They stated that they wanted
to carry out a search. The maid warned Calvo Sotello

(31:49):
what was taking place, so he came to the door.
Upon opening, Condes and his men entered the home and
told Calvo Sotello that they were to search his house.
They spread out and cut the phone line. Kuenka instructed
Calvo Sotello that by order of the General Security Directorate,
he was under arrest. Upon hearing this, Sotello warned the

(32:10):
men that he was a member of Parliament and he
could not be arrested without the order of a judge
or clear evidence of a crime. Calvo Sotello attempted to
make a call to the Security Directorate, but he realized
the line had been cut and the troopers were preventing
his wife and maids from leaving the house to call
for help. Due to the tense situation, Condes showed his

(32:32):
badge and assured Calvo Sotello that he was called for
an emergency meeting in Parliament. Once they arrived, he could
meet with the security chief himself. Seeing the tent situation
he was in on top of his family being completely
surrounded and helpless, Calvo Sotello agreed to leave his home

(32:52):
for the quote unquote meeting. After dressing and kissing his
children goodbye. His wife pleaded with him not to leave
the house. Calvo Sotello reassured reassured her that when he
arrived at Parliament he would call her, though he added
quote unless these men put a bullet in the back
of my head unquote. This statement has led many to

(33:13):
conclude that Calvo Sotello suspected what was going to happen,
but in order to protect his loved ones, he agreed
to go, even though he suspected he was to be murdered.
In the van, Condes proceeded to tell his men that
it was time to leave. Aniceto. Castro Pinero sat to
the right of Sotello, while Victoriano Quenka, the hit man,

(33:36):
sat in the seat directly behind him. The van drove
for roughly five hundred meters when Victoriano drew a gun
and shot Calvo Sotello twice in the back of the head,
causing him to fall dead upon the seats in front
of him. The van didn't stop, and the men inside
didn't protest or make a sound. Eventually, the van reached
a Guardia de Salto checkpoint, which, upon seeing that the

(33:59):
van was one of there, they let them through. Barely
an hour later, the van arrived at the Cementio del
Este or Eastern Cemetery, where Condes hailed the guards to
let the van in. The men left Calvo Sotello's body
at the door of the morgue without informing the graveyard
shift employees of his identity. So this is a diagram

(34:22):
where he's seated and his assassin was right behind him
with all these other men, and who who was with
which Guardia Seville, Guardia Dia Salto and PSOE militants. After
this grim task was performed, the men returned to the

(34:44):
van and drove away. The driver commented, I guess they
won't rat us out. Condes replied, don't worry, nothing will happen.
Quenka added, whoever blabs about this better kill himself or
else we will kill him like this month. Upon return
to the Pondejos Barracks, Commander Burio received Condes and Quenca

(35:05):
with a sound handshake and led them to his office
while the driver, Thomas Perez, cleaned the back of the
van of any blood. The van would be decommissioned the
following day. Meanwhile, Calvo Sotello's wife, Lady Enriqueta de Grononda
Grondona excuse me, began to contact authorities, friends and relatives.

(35:26):
The instant her husband was taken away. She tried best
to report the kidnapping and get help to track down
Cavo Sotello, but the pertinent authorities reported, quote he hasn't
arrived to the General Security Directorate unquote. Many of the
public employees, security officers and command members of the General
Security Directorate and the Ministry of Public Order corroborated that

(35:50):
no one in charge, upon hearing the news of the
disappearance of Calvo Sotello, took any action to find out
where he was. It wasn't until early in the morning
when RelA relatives of Calvo Sotelo went directly to the
government ministry that the crime report was even formally filed.
In this report, a concerned Lieutenant Sanchez Plaza recorded that

(36:13):
during the night, van number seventeen arrived after patrol with
blood inside due to a minor injury to one of
the troopers, and all of the agents involved in the
incident were reassigned to other duties the following day. This
information caused panic among Sotello's relatives, and after a short
talk outside Subsecretary Osorio's office, Lieutenant Sanchez confirmed that a

(36:39):
group of the Guardia dea Salto had committed high insubordination.
So I have a nice image here of Jose Calvos
Sotello's funeral attended by thousands in Madrid, and I note
that libtards had sealed their fate. They weren't, I mean,

(37:01):
they were just getting started. But I mean, there was
there was no way that after this that the military
wasn't going to be involved. Yeah, there was no way
that there was going to be any more.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
Talk, right, And I just think it's interesting that last year,
twenty twenty four, when Butler Pennsylvania happened, it happened on
July thirteenth.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yes, yep, I remember you pointing that out, and it's, oh,
it's wild.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
I mean, I don't know who they is when I
say I don't know who they is, But they sure
do like to pick certain dates, don't they. They use
them over and over again, they do. You can go
back a couple centuries on septem Just search September eleventh,
things that happened on September eleventh, and you'll go back

(37:57):
a couple of centuries and you'll be like, has to
be wrong when you see the things that were done
on September on September eleventh of certain years throughout the
last few centuries. It's it's one of those things where
you're like, I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist,
but how can I not be?

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Oh, of course, and it makes me it makes me
wonder sometimes. So there's obviously scenarios in which things are
done on certain dates for deliberate reasons. There's also, you know,
as as Thomas likes to point out, that war comes
like the seasons, right, you will have a season of war,

(38:40):
and so sometimes I think, you know, there's certain scenarios
in which are like, maybe that's just a cycle, but
it sure is interesting and it's definitely noteworthy, and at
the very least it bears scrutiny before you can come
to any conclusions.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yep, correct, all.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Right, So again, this is the morning immediately after the assassination,
and tensions are extremely high, but things have not exploded yet.
At the same time, at the same time as this
report was being filed by the family, and these conversations

(39:23):
were taking place internally with concerned officers and like legitimate
guys who worked within the government. At the same time,
Alonso Maloul received in his office a nervous captain of
the Guardia dea Salto, concerned over the disappearance of Calvo Sotello.
Malull answered, quote, we should not make hasty conclusions as

(39:46):
to what has happened. After all, whatever happened, we cannot
do anything about it, unquote, signaling has his passivity and
suggesting to a certain degree that he knew what had happened. Later,
this captain would corroborate the outstanding passivity of the government
regarding the disappearance and potential member of a standing member

(40:08):
of Parliament, which spread in the media and reached the
police chief of Madrid, who only gave an order to
arrest the driver of the van. It wasn't until noon
when a cemetery employee reported to town Hall that the
body of Calvo Sotello was in the Morgue. Since he
knew the man personally, he shared all of what was

(40:28):
known to have happened that night at the morgue. Authorities
who weren't controlled by left wing elements, soon mobilized to
investigate the case, although they were constantly halted by higher
ups in the Republican government. For example, when a police
lineup was conducted in order to identify the troopers who

(40:49):
took Calvo Sotello. None of the agents who were there
that night were called to it. In fact, the government
took direct action to protect those involved in the event.
When Lieutenant Maximo Moreno was called to testify before a judge,
he took refuge in the General Security Directorate for a

(41:09):
week before agreeing to appear, where he refused to testify.
After the military uprising on July twenty fifth, a group
of ten armed communist militiamen burst into the Supreme Court
of the Palace of Justice and demanded to be handed
the files and everything related to the investigation of the

(41:29):
murder of Calvo Sotello. Powerless, a judge handed over the
files and from there nobody knows what happened to them.
Most of the events related above were corroborated by many people,
from public officials to the friends and family of Jose
Calvo Sotello. Probably the most revealing and important of all testimony,

(41:52):
details regarding the actual murder were recounted in an interview
with Ansetto Castro Pignero, a guard Alardia dea Salto, who
was in the van when Sotello was murdered. This enlightening
interview performed during the war in a Nationalist prison camp,
was published in El Diario Vasco newspaper the sixteenth of

(42:13):
November of nineteen thirty eight. So this is two years later,
before the war is over. This reporter is able to
interview someone who is involved and what was taking place
in these prisoner of war camps. The nationalists were taking

(42:35):
all these people that they had captured who'd been fighting
against them, and interrogating and parsing them and corroborating their
backgrounds and researching their backgrounds and stories to figure out
are these just draftees? Are these people who've been involved
in atrocities? Are these red agitators? Are they just like

(42:59):
a liberal role who happened to vote liberal but they're
not like fire breathers? And then they were drafted or
you know, conscripted or whatever. Like this is what those
camps like a major portion of what they were, because
you needed to figure out and identify who had brought
the country to the point where there was a war.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Correct, Yeah, you had mentioned that the war wasn't over yet,
but really I think at this point, really isn't it
only the battle of Ebro. That's really left, like that's
the only major thing that's going to happen.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Correct, it's still simmering at this time. The Battle of
the Ebro is still underway. By November sixteenth of thirty eight,
they're completely isolated and cut off up there, and so
that just has to be resolved and then forces kind
of reconstituted so that they can take Catalonia and then

(43:56):
go through Valencia and up through up to Madrid.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
There's a really good book by by Ausbrey Press on
the Battle of Ebro. It is detailed, and it is
you know how Darryl's World War One episode how Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
I mean that's how that book is. And you're just like,
all have to get that. That's fairly recent, isn't it?
Or am I misremembering?

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Yeah? Yeah, and that Yeah, that's one of those ones
where you're like, oh, yeah, I wouldn't want to be
in the trenches of World War One and I wouldn't
know in the Battle of Ebro.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
No, you would not on either side. It was it
was brutal.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
It was brutal.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
All right, I wet my whistle and I'm ready to continue.
So this is that interview straight out of the newspaper,
and you can find this in Spanish all over the
internet in Spanish language, you know, Spanish Civil War themed

(45:02):
websites and forums and stuff like that. I corroborated all
this stuff. I have a screenshot of like the cover
of this newspaper or the first page of the article,
like above the fold, etc. This is straight out of
that paper, and there's photos of the people that are

(45:25):
involved and everything like this. This is incredibly well documented.
These camps were not just atrocities taking place. They were
just Democrats who wanted to vote, so they were in
a prison camp. We filed the paperwork to access the
prison camp and speak with the Guardia dea Salto, who

(45:46):
was in the Van seventeen when the illustrious Jose Calvo
Sotelo was murdered Aniceto Castro Pinero was taken prisoner by
our forces in Madrid near the clinical hospital. We also
need the permission of the standing judge to speak with
the prisoner. Is a little the translation here is slightly stilted,

(46:10):
but it's a good translation in terms of being technically accurate.
This judge is a captain of the law Corps who
not only allowed us to talk with him, but accompanied
us to the camp. We find many prisoners in this place.
We are taken aback by the vast diversity of clothing,
some wearing sleeveless shirts, others wool jackets, and most militia

(46:33):
uniforms of many colors. Soon we see a prisoner leaving
the barracks. He stands out among the rest due to
the way he carries himself. That one is Aceto castro Pinero,
says the captain. He approaches our group and addressing the captain,
he asks your orders. The captain answers. These people wish
to ask you some questions. Interviewer, Where are you from

(46:57):
Aniceto Lugo. How old are you? Twenty seven? Marital status?
I'm single. Siblings. I have two brothers, one in the
Guardia de es Alto and the other a priest. Interesting
do you belong to any Did you belong to any
political organization or workers' union before joining the Core? None?

(47:21):
What was your employment before joining the Core? I was
a farm hand. I also worked as a stonecutter for
a time. What was your first destination when you joined
the Corps? I begun in Oviedo, the capital of Asturias.
I served from November of nineteen thirty four up to
April nineteen thirty five, which would have been a rather
busy first tour given what was going on up there.

(47:46):
Then I was sent to Madrid. Did you request a transfer?
Of course, the third of April I joined the second
Assault Company. One of the specials. What specialty did your
company have? We had divisions of mischie gunners, mortars and
gas weapons. These are internal police, it's not. They aren't

(48:07):
just like gum shoes and you know, beat cops. Who
was in charge of your company, Captain Moreno Navarro. The
entire group was under the orders of Commander Burrio. It
was said that the Second Company you belonged to leaned
heavily to the left. Almost every trooper in it was
a member of the most extreme left wing organizations. Truly,

(48:31):
very few of us were moderates or right laning. Among
our lot, there were two sergeants who were displeased with
the leftist aspect of the company. It got to a
point where any trooper and another company had problems or
a fight with his superiors due to their rebellious leftist attitude.
They asked to be reassigned to the Second Company. They

(48:51):
were among their peers.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
There.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
However, there was another company formed mainly of right wingers,
men of order and loyalty. We called it the Pacific Company.
And I'll add a note here that keep in mind
that the Assault Guards were a special corps established under
the Republic by the Republic specifically looking for a to

(49:15):
create a new law enforcement arm that would be loyal
to the Republic that would enforce their basically their their
politically moderating stance. Their concern was that the Civil Guard
was this old established system that had a lot of

(49:37):
like royalists and people who had served under the dictatorship,
and they wanted to create this new arm that would
do whatever. But again, you know, obviously you're getting these
rather tough people, and so you need to go with
who you can get, and so there's going to be

(49:57):
kind of a mix of people, but they're kind of segregating,
which you see during the war, the same thing took
place the different groups, and it was heavily influenced by
your chances of actually pulling off, you know, asserting whichever
group you decided to throw in with, like in the

(50:19):
time and place of where you were at, so like
if you were behind like republican lines. It would be
a lot harder for you to, you know, side with
the nationalists. Gotcha, okay, continuing interviewer, I wished you to
tell us how the crime against mister Calvo Sotelo was

(50:41):
planned and how it took place. I know very little
of the planning. When Lieutenant Castillo was murdered, the second
company was an uproar, no wonder. Lieutenant Castillo had a
great reputation among those men, and our company was commonly
called the revolutionary. They were very angry with corporals from
Cisco Conde Garcia and Mariano Garcia. Garia being the angriest.

(51:06):
They said they had to put all the fascists down.
They had to kill them to the last to avenge
the lieutenant. You didn't know the assassination of Lieutenant Castillo
was carried out by the government in order to rouse
the radical leftists into action. So this is kind of like, yeah,
this is a theory that pushed by the right. I

(51:28):
don't know how accurate it was. I don't think there's
enough evidence to come to any conclusions there, but that
was kind of one of the right wing quote unquote
conspiracy theories that it was that it was an op
of some kind, but it was.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
It's commonly thought that the fallen he carried it out right.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
Yeah, correct, And I've never seen any evidence that that
wasn't the case. But there isn't a ton of evidence.
But again, he was a big glace lowing, pulsating target
for the falong Hay because of the types of stuff
that he was doing against them. Where they would go.
Castillo was leading men to arrest Falonghey members and they

(52:14):
would just like wipe them out quite often. So it's
it's assumed that that's the case. But it's interesting when
these things pop up, you know, conspiracy theories of the time. Continuing,
he responds, no, but it wouldn't surprise me if it

(52:36):
was carried out by the government as a false flag. Interviewer,
keep going as I was saying that, kept going on
about avenging Lieutenant Castillo. There were very heated arguments and
fists in the air, and with those passions running high,
we got to the night of the twelfth and into
the thirteenth, the captain of the Guardia Seville Condes was

(52:58):
in the barracks of Pontejos. He was in plain clothes.
He made his way to the boss's office. After that,
others arrived. Among them there was a sinister man, a
hit man. It was he who carried out the barbaric crime.
Soon begun rumors among the troopers that we were going
to carry out the arrests of dozens of right wingers.

(53:18):
With that news, the leftists among us rejoiced, and like
that midnight arrived. A little after midnight, many troopers left
to carry out the arrests. Around two in the morning,
Lieutenant Andres Leon Lupon left his office and addressed all
of us, saying, three of you get in the van.
He then spoke with the Guardia Jose del Rey and

(53:39):
gave him a document that looked like a list with
names of people we were to arrest. Three of us
in uniform got in the van. After us came the driver,
Captain Condes, and the Guardia Jose del Rey. After them
arrived other troopers, all in plane clothes belonging to the
Guardia dea Salto. With them came the sinner hit man that,

(54:01):
as it was rumored then and I would know much later,
was the bodyguard of former socialist minister in de Le
Theo Prieto. That man had a badge from our Corps,
given to him by the General Security Directorate, even though
he didn't fulfill the requirements, which would be handy. He
looked to be around twenty seven, strong and cheery. He

(54:21):
was always smiling. We left the barracks and left up
Alcala Street until we reached Velasquez Street, driving to a
building at the end of the street. We stopped there
and the doorman approached the van to ask the driver
if we arrived to arrest Calvo Sotello. One of the
troopers shouted to him to open the door, keep quiet

(54:42):
and leave if he didn't want to get killed. Captain Condes,
who by order of Lieutenant Lupione we had to obey,
ordered the Guardias with machine pistols to surround the building
and others to cover the surrounding streets. After that, Condees,
accompanied by the the Guardia, Jose del Rey, and the
hit man, went into the home of mister Calvo Sotello.

(55:05):
By the door, there was the doorman and two guards
who were on duty guarding the house. I do not
know what happened inside, nobody spoke of it. Around fifteen
minutes later they came down, the three of them with
Calvo Sotello, who dressed in a gray suit and carried
a briefcase. They made him get into the van and
he took the third seat in the middle. I sat

(55:26):
to his left and to his right was another trooper.
The hit man sat directly behind Calvo Sotello. Worried, mister
Sotello asked where the captain was, and Condes answered from
outside the van. He looked at us and said, let's
see what they want with me. The other troopers got
in the van soon after. We could see some of
his relatives peeking out of the balconies and windows to

(55:48):
bid him farewell, to which he answered, waving his hand, sorry.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
I'm sorry man.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Yeah. After that, the van departed. We drove down Velasquez Street.
We didn't even drive five hundred meters when we heard
a weird popping sound. Then Calvo Sotello, without giving a
hint of pain, dropped onto the seat in front of
him and rolled on the guardia to his right. Finally,

(56:19):
he dropped to the floor. Two men kicked his body
so that it would fit between the two rows of seats.
Moments oh, I'm okay, okay. Moments after, the gunman, who
sat behind mister Sotello got up and, kneeling on the seat,
shot him again in the head. He said, one of
the murderers of Castillo is down. And again you were like,

(56:42):
one of the murders of Castillo. What are you talking about.
When the anarchists and socialist and communist risings took place
in Austurias and all over the country in nineteen thirty two,
excuse me, nineteen thirty three into nineteen thirty four, the
government cracked down on them and the right wingers were blamed,

(57:06):
even though like the the Republic's government, the Republican government
basically said this is too much. We got to do something.
And the excuse for the uprising, which of course the
real goal behind it was Bolshevik revolution and anarchist revolution,
was that, oh, well, we can't tolerate, you know, having

(57:29):
an elected right wing government after a legitimate election, like
it's the Republican We're stealing this motherfucker. So that's their
cope is they do killing, there's a reaction to them,
and then they call the people who reacted to them
to bring an order the murderers, right, okay. Familiar huh

(57:53):
sounds familiar sounds familiar I noted that the first shot
of the hitman was from below in the nape, while
the second was from above in the head. I think
the first one had to be lethal. Then the Guardia
to the right of Calvo Sotello got up and left
for a seat in the back. I sat still. Nobody

(58:14):
realized that such a horrible murder took place. Nobody said
a word. Those in the back of the van didn't
even turn their heads. The van kept driving on with
its terrible cargo. When we reached the crossing with al
Callas Street, there were a couple of Guardia Dia Salto
at a checkpoint, stopping any driver and asking for papers

(58:36):
from anyone driving at that hour. They signaled us to stop,
but when they saw we were in a van of
the Security Directorate, they led us through. We kept driving
on to the Eastern Cemetery. We tried to place the
body of Calvo Sotello in such a way that you
couldn't see it from the outside. We arrived to the
graveyard and Captain Condes and del Rey hailed the cemetery guards.

(58:59):
They opened the door and led us through until we
reached the building. The Captain told us to drop the body,
and three of us took it out of the van.
I grabbed one of his arms, another the legs, and
another the other arm. We pulled as hard as we could,
but due to how he fell, it wasn't easy to
get him out. That's why he had bruises on the knees.

(59:20):
We dropped the body outside. There wasn't a struggle, No,
the ban was. The van was filled with blood, but
Calvo Sotello didn't utter a word. Soon after we drove
back to the barracks. The driver, looking at us and
addressing Captain Condez, said, quote, I suppose you won't wrap
me out unquote. Delray answered, quote, don't worry. Whoever blabs

(59:43):
about this better kill himself, or else we will kill
him like this mud unquote. We drove back without uttering
a word until we got back to the barracks. When
we arrived, the hit man, or better said the murderer
of Calvo Sotello and Captain Condez left for the office
of Commander Burrio, who gave a handshake to the murderer.

(01:00:04):
They went up to the commander's office. You didn't speak
with any of the troopers about what happened. Not that day,
others caught wind of it from the papers, but I
spoke about it with some friends the next day and
the van what happened to it? Since it was soaked
in blood, it had to be cleaned up. That task
was for Guardia Thomas Perez. Once it was done, it

(01:00:27):
was ordered to be decommissioned. What happened after all of
that we all kept on active duty, but after that
day we never saw Captain Contes or the hit man
ever again. A few days after, due to the police investigation,
a maid and a teacher that were in the home
of Cavo Sotelo came to the barracks for a lineup.
All of our company was ordered to attend, except the

(01:00:49):
three of us who were in the van the day
of the murder. This was done to see if any
of the servants of the house recognized any of the
men who were there, but the three of us that
were in the van didn't set foot in the house anyways. Well,
all of this happened, Lieutenant Barletta called the three of
us who weren't at the identity parade which the police lineup,

(01:01:14):
and told us, quote, don't worry, nothing will happen to you.
This hit was ordered by the general Security Director, who
was ordered by the Minister of Government. Everyone in the
government and your bosses know about it. They are the
ones who did it. Unquote, did he really say that
exactly as he said? It was an order from the
security director and the government minister. And you know what

(01:01:38):
happened to the others that were in the van with you. Yes,
Guardia del Rey fled to Portugal and then was in
Badajlez as head of the militia. Right now, he's a
lieutenant in Barcelona. I was told that the hit man
was killed and justice was served on his part. They
riddled him with bullets in Guadarama, and last I know,

(01:01:58):
Captain Condees died in Extremadura, were in some Guardia and
the driver of the van arrested and taken to the
Palace of Justice. Yes, but it was all a ruse.
The government just put up a farce. Why do you
think that Lieutenant Sanchez Planas went to the barracks of Pontejos.
He was the head of the Guardia dia Salto. He

(01:02:20):
probably wanted to know what happened. This information confirms what
we knew already. The murder of mister Calvo Sotello was
a crime ordered by the state. The Blood of Our
Martyr was a war cry against the Marxist beast which
threatened to destroy Spain.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
Okay, so yeah, yeah, this in these next parts are
your notes here are very important and I credit I
credit Morgar with the vast majority of this.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
These are his sentiments. But I love that closing the
Blood of Our Martyr was a war cry against the
Marxist beast which threatened to destroy Spain. And this is
written when they're on the March and the final victory
over this Marxist beast in Spain is almost achieved. The

(01:03:20):
final victory for now there is.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Yeah, Thomas and I are doing We're doing a series
on super Off and Hoffman's book which Penn basically pinn
World War Two, on Stalin, Icebreaker, Outstanding Icebreaker, and Stalin's
War of Extermination. Yes, yes, really good books. And I
haven't gotten through all of Stalin's War of Extermination, but

(01:03:48):
I've read Icebreaker and Icebreakers. I mean that it was
one of those ones is just all circumstantial evidence, but
it's so once you you read it all, you're just like, yeah, this,
we're so far away from the you know from the
official officially what happened to that led up to that

(01:04:12):
led up to that conflict. But one of the things, yeah,
one of the things I said in that episode at
the end of that episode was, you know what a
lot of people don't realize. You know, Spain and the
Right get all this flack for you know, Germany helping
them and Italy helping them, and you know basically fascists

(01:04:37):
coming in from Romania, coming in from everywhere to help them,
but they left after they won. If the Left would
have won, Spain belonged to Stalin. Absolutely, he wasn't leaving,
and that means that he would have had a foothold
at the top of the peninsula, and he would have

(01:04:59):
had a foothold that the bottom of the peninsula. He
would have had he would have basically had the mouth
of the Mediterranean.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
And I suspect that the international brigades would have swelled
and the Communists in Western Europe would have amassed there
as well as you know, the anglosphere would have amassed
in Spain to prepare for the next phase. I firmly believe.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
That, Yeah, it's uh, people do not realize what the
bullet that was dodged by by the right winning absolutely
if the left would have won, I mean, if a
left woot have won basically, I mean, well, the outcome

(01:05:51):
of World War two was bad enough, there's a pretty
good chance Stalin would have had all of Europe. And
I don't know that. I don't know that the United
States or England would have said anything about.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
It, And England would have just basically continued on the
angle that it was that it was following right, that
they would have just been that much more communist flavored
instead of pretending that they aren't.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
Yeah, yeah, all right, go on, all.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Right, let's wrap this up. So these are Morguris sentiments,
but great stuff. While I advise that everyone read this
with a pinch of salt, it was written during the war,
after all, it is important to note that the bloodlust
of the left was not much different then, as it
is now an open secret to everyone that they constantly

(01:06:52):
tried to deny publicly. Obviously, although less so, I'll add
these days, as they do not want to suffer the
rightful retribution which will eventually come, and if it comes
to one of them, they firmly believe it will come.
For every single one of them. That said, the true
subject of this article is the indecisive centrist or conservative,

(01:07:13):
the man who stands by and lets things happen, either
out of fear or indifference, an all too common archetype today,
as they watch the world devolve into barbarism, yet refuse
to budge until they are personally victimized, or refuse even
then to act, whether out of fear of prison, social
score and death, economic loss. Such are legion in this

(01:07:37):
day and age. While their passivity is worthy of scorn,
you must remember that many of them are struggling, like
you or others. You know. They wish they could do something.
They wish they could spare time or money, or maybe
escape from everything that is becoming worse and worse over time.
But remember, while the left will attempt to gain the

(01:07:58):
support of the middle via tear or you can win
them over by offering a world of order and virtue
the end. This is the monument to Jose Calvos Otello
and the Plaza de Castilla in Madrid.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Do you think that they do? You think they can
be won over by that?

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
I believe?

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
How bad will it have to get in order for
them to embrace the virtue.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
I kind of feel like they they will get with
the program, and you will have people as things progress
they get that get with the program sooner rather than later.
But I think it's a it's a progression. Many are
you know, pretty much useless. What matters is that they

(01:08:51):
stay out of the way.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Yeah, I mean, that's it's unfortunately, that's exactly where it exactly.
The point is that right now they're just in the
way and they just need to step aside, and they
don't want to. I mean they yeah, they've they've been

(01:09:16):
in power for so long. They've been you know, they've
been the top of the heap for so long, and
it's like, well, no, no, I'm gonna hold on to
this until the day I die. Well, everything else is
dying around you while you're while you're holding out, So yeah,
maybe you need to step aside.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
Yeah, And I feel I feel pretty positive in regards
to wherever there's energy, it's either on our like real energy,
it's on our side or the enemies. And that middle

(01:09:59):
is is so increasingly irrelevant that you know, I just
want to be left alone. As a sentiment you hear
all the time, but they're irrelevant. They don't participate in anything,
They don't do anything, And I just feel like that

(01:10:20):
their irrelevancy is so obvious to people that they're just
not worried about them. And that's the correct mentality to have. Like,
every once in a while, you run across someone who's like, ah,
someone's we got to persuade all these people, and other
people are like, no, they will be persuaded by action

(01:10:42):
and events taking place around them, and so I wouldn't
worry about it. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
Do you remember a few years ago when Sean Brennan
well like mentioned the enemies of the regime and he
happens to mention libertarians. Yes, yeah, their fucking nipples got
hard when he said that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Yeah, they all.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
Got so excited because look, we're relevant. I had someone
tell me that he goes, we're an enemy of the regime.
Because John Brennan, I'm like, somebody told him to say
that he doesn't know what a libertarian is. Are you
kidding me? This is this is a guy who was
going on TV and talking about his white privilege. Do

(01:11:25):
you think he can explain to you what white privilege
means in it? You know, in in context of who
he's supposed to be signaling that to please stop libertarians,
classical liberals are a threat. Well, how come there, how
come they're the ones who are leaking the fucking group chats.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
Yes, yeah, well he could be. It could be a
mask off moment because, as we know, the Bolsheviks always
enjoy massacring the libertarians. So they're literally they're not an
actual combatant enemy, but they're an enemy that they deal with, right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
They usually they usually end up being useful in some
way to them.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
Yeah, they're they're useful idiots, and then they just get
rid of them, even though they're never a threat. They
just they just sweep them into the dust bin. They
do it everywhere. They did it in Russia, they did
it in Spain.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
Yeah, it was. You can read about some like they
would just have it in the streets of Madrid. A
libertarian and an anarchist, or a libertarian and a communist
would just start having an argument and the communist or
the anarchists would just pull a gun out and she's
the libertarian, just kill them right there, even though they
were on the same even though they were on the

(01:12:50):
same side.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Yeah, they're fighting side by side and they're like I mean,
which is one of the reason, you know, probably the
main reason the left lost, thankfully, was not only because
the Right was you know, they had purpose and they
were basically fighting a crusade. And it's kind of hard
to beat crusaders. But you're it's kind of hard to

(01:13:13):
beat crusaders if you're not organized, if you're not one,
if you're not all dropping your your ideological yeah, your
ideological baggage, and you're letting it get in the way,
and you're like executing the person who's fighting alongside of you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Exactly, insane, exactly, And they.

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
Could have probably held me, They could have probably held
Madrid if it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
Probably they probably could have. But the the other thing, too,
is is it took so long there was there was
such a long protracted period of this internal grinding against
each other because remember Madrid, there was that heavy push
for I want to say, like nine months about before

(01:14:05):
before the nationalists pretty much just stopped worrying about Madrid.
I mean, they still had to have their holding units
there to retain you know, the ground that they had
taken around it, but they weren't attempting any pushes after
basically Spring of nineteen thirty seven, and so when they

(01:14:28):
shifted nationalist attention elsewhere to grind out the war elsewhere.
To your point, the various factions in Madrid had nothing
to do, no one to fight with except each other,
which is brilliant really to leave them to fight against
one another, so that by the time, you know, the

(01:14:51):
grinding war has taken place all around the country, all
that you have left are these you know, hardcore like
internal security types who aren't like real soldiers. They are
just murderers that are running around in the cities, you know,
quote unquote, you know, maintaining order, and they don't. They

(01:15:12):
don't have anyone who wants to fight with them. Left
to the point where there was a huge faction within
that basically took over the government, you know, the remains
of the Republican government, and said we're going to surrender.
A couple of communists stood up and tried to you know,
take them out, and they were crushed because everyone was

(01:15:34):
basically like, all we have to do is kill like
a couple of hundred communists and the war is over.
And the war is over anyway, so why not just
waste them and like negotiate, which is what they did,
and then they handed over Madrid to the nationalists basically
without a shot fired against the nationalists. So absolutely incredible

(01:15:57):
and an important lesson. That's what they do. And so
all these people, these like libertarians who are taking up
aspects of the left because they're like, oh, you're just statists.
You worshiped the state, you know, Oh what about the
liberties of the people being grabbed by ice. It's like, look,

(01:16:20):
if you want that kind of world, you need to
understand who it's for and who can create it and
who can maintain it. And it's not the people being deported,
like if they're here the parasitism that you decried in
the nineties when it was almost purely domestic parasitism, like

(01:16:43):
what you have now is thirty thirty five years of
highly evolved parasitism. Whereas we've seen recently the snap benefits
are going like two thirds to foreigners, if not more
than two thirds. It's massive, and they're people who are

(01:17:04):
literally imported here just to be given gibbs and just
to replace you. So they're out of here. You have
a much better chance of resolving the internal situation where
you have more of the liberty that you want because
it's a Western country and filled with Western people who

(01:17:26):
care about European people who care about this These beliefs
that you say are important to you, you can't get
that among being swarmed with people who not only don't
believe in this stuff, but have been told that they're
here to take your stuff, and so all they have

(01:17:47):
to do is side with the people who want to
take your stuff and replace you, and so they do it. Sorry,
it's not that complicated.

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
Yeah, it's just once you see it, you know, it's, uh,
it's kind of hard to unseee because you once you
start reading about stuff like this, you know, it's like,
I mean libertarians and classical you know, that's so much

(01:18:24):
classical liberals, but definitely like the libertarian types will say,
you know, the reason the Spanish Civil War happened is
because they were all statists. Yeah, and what do you
I mean, what.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
So the anarchists in Catalonia who are running around murdering
priests and raping nuns and burning down churches. Uh, well
they weren't statists.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
Well they were those Those aren't real anarchists, Carl.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Choose your own Spanish Civil War?

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:19:02):
Libertsion libertarians. That's like eight people agreed with them in
all of Spain. Like maybe maybe they called they even
called themselves libertarian, they were still the violent anarchists among them.
Hope all you want. That's who they were. That's where

(01:19:25):
your identity comes from.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
Sorry, well, I think the one thing I think they're
One of the reasons why the libertarian to remember they
called it the alt right pipeline, why that exists is
is because deep down in the recesses of their the
part of their the part of them that they don't
want to admit exists, they know that authoritarianism is the

(01:19:56):
only way that they get to anything that looks close
to what they want.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
Oh, and that's that I realized that quite you know,
relatively early in the period of calling myself a libertarian.
I was like, that's the only way you can get
to it. And then I read Hoppah and was like,
that's literally all he just said. He repeated the exact
same thing that I kind of intuited, And yeah, so

(01:20:23):
you know, if you're just holding it as like this,
it'd be nice to have. It's an ideal that I
would like to achieve. You have to understand that the
only way to get anywhere close to that is you
have the shield wall around your society on the outside
so that you can have that kind of world on

(01:20:43):
the inside. And you have to have that shield wall,
and you have to enforce that against people that oppose it,
which is not very nice, and that requires power to
do it. And if you call that a state, or
it's a group of people you know who just volunteer

(01:21:05):
to do it. Hey, you know whatever, call it whatever
you want, man, I don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm very happy that I used
to be able to look at a situation and go, hey,
here's the problem. But no, I didn't. I didn't know
what the problem was.

Speaker 2 (01:21:25):
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:21:27):
I wasn't able. Oh, Libertarians are really good at diagnosing No,
they're not.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Communists Marxists are much better. People who like study dialectical materialism.
They're much better at diagnosing what the problem is. The
problem is. They don't know how to fix it any better.
Their ways are just as destructive as the anarcho capitalists.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
Answer would be absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:21:56):
All right, man, tell everybody where they can find you.
And you know, we were just reading basically right off
of your substack. So yes, this, there is more stuff
like there's more stuff like that on there, so tell
people where they can find it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
Carl Dahl dot substack dot com. That's k A r
L d a h l dot substack dot com. I
have two bicks on Amazon, Faction and Faction with the Crusaders.
Faction with the Crusaders is my Spanish Civil War story.
I'm also on Twitter, although I really dislike Twitter, but

(01:22:30):
every once in a while I will put up a banger,
so that's that's where you see my my mindless posts
thrown into the void. And I also will update you
know when I'm posting stuff on substack there as well.
But it's fun because you get to engage with your friends.

(01:22:50):
So thanks, Pete, had a great time talking to you today.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
Yeah. Man, that's what the group chats are for though.

Speaker 2 (01:22:56):
Yeah, that's true. The group chats are the best part
of it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
Oh, appreciate it, Carl, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
Thanks