August 28, 2025 • 41 mins
Colonel Nathan "Sheik" Malafa didn’t plan on becoming one of the most recognizable pilots in the world—he just followed the spark. From flying combat missions in the F-15E and F-35 to leading the Thunderbirds as Thunderbird 1, Sheik brings a rare mix of humility, precision, and leadership to the air and the team behind it.
In this episode, we dig into the realities behind the paint job: the mindset it takes to lead 130+ people on the road nine months a year, how the Thunderbirds train to fly closer than most of us would ever dare, and what it really means to “chase perfection and catch excellence.”
If you’ve ever looked up and wondered what it takes to be in that cockpit—or lead the team that puts the jets there—this is the one.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:16):
Welcome back to the Pilot Network podcast, theplace where we connect aviators with the tools,
resources, and stories to help them navigatetheir careers and lives.
I'm your host, Adam Yuhan.
Today's guest is one of the most recognizablepilots in the world, but more importantly he's
the kind of leader you'd want in your squadron.
Colonel Nathan Sheikh Malafa is Thunderbirdone, the commander and team leader of the
(00:39):
United States Air Force Demonstration Squadron,also known as the Thunderbirds.
And sure, you've seen the videos, the flyovers,the diamond formation tearing across the sky,
but what you haven't seen is the human beingbehind that visor, what it took to get there,
what it takes to stay sharp, and how themission is way more than just flying cool jets
with sweet paint jobs.
(01:00):
Sheik's flown the F-15E Strike Eagle, theF-thirty five Lightning II, and now the
F-sixteen Viper.
I mean the Fighting Falcon.
He's a weapons school grad, a former testsquadron commander, and he's logged over three
thousand five hundred hours including 800 plusin combat.
But that's not the most impressive part, atleast not to me.
What stood out, and I think it will stand outto you as well, is his mindset.
(01:22):
He's humble, approachable, credible, all thethings that make a great Weapon School grad and
an awesome dude.
He's focused on excellence, not ego, and so ishis team of more than 130 people.
This one's got leadership, culture, family, anda few good stories from flying air shows all
over the world.
Let's take a look behind the curtain withThunderbird one, Boss Sheik.
(01:43):
Standby.
Smoke.
Smoke on her team now.
Smoke on her now.
Thunderbirds, release picture ready now.
Partners now.
Colonel Nathan Sheikh Malafa, thank you forjoining me.
I really appreciate it.
Thunderbird one, you heard it all in the intro.
How are you do I know we're midseason, soyou're busy.
How are you guys how's the season going so far?
Right.
Happy to be here.
(02:03):
The season's been great.
It's also been full of challenges, which is noshortage of that on this team.
As you can imagine, we're on the road ninemonths out of the year, and we take eight jets
every location.
We're in two major cities or basically everyweek and yeah and it's it's been full
challenge.
We'll get into some of those in a bit but it'sbeen an absolute blast and just having a great
(02:27):
time.
We're actually fresh off of a break, so we gotour week long break for a summer safety break,
and then we're back in Chicago or excuse me,Gary, and then Chicago, and Davenport is our
next trip for the next three weeks.
What one whole week?
Wow.
What a what a what a long period of off time.
I know most airline and military pilots wouldbe going, one week.
That's it?
Come on.
This is, that's not gonna cut it.
(02:48):
But, you you guys have a much different profileand mission than a lot of us did preserved.
But the getting there, that this is not a road.
This is a road very few travel, and a lot of ushave very similar origin stories in flying.
You and I kind of share a very similar originstory in flying.
When did it first click that maybe thisaviation thing was, yeah, this is what I wanna
(03:11):
do for a living.
Right.
So I was, let's see.
I was about seven or eight years old when mydad took me to an air show.
I'm from Michigan originally as we talkedabout, and we went to Muskegon Air Show, which
is out on Lake Michigan.
And I actually went there because I wanted tosee the army guys.
I wanna see the army trucks and the guns andthey had a tent set up with all that stuff and
(03:32):
I played with a little green army man and I setthem up and have my own air force.
And I was sitting there watching, you know,playing with the the guns, looking at the tanks
and the different weapons and all of suddenthis f 15 eagle comes ripping ripping across
the the airstrip and put the put the, you know,the toys down and like started to look at the
airplane.
I walked over the flight line and I watched it.
(03:53):
That airplane just tear holes in the sky, andit was an awesome the word awesome is overused,
but it was awesome.
Right?
I have eyes wide open.
And what really blew my mind, it was it wascool watching the demo, but what really blew my
mind was after the airplane landed, taxis back,canopy opens and somebody gets out of the
cockpit.
(04:13):
That's when the synapse was fired, then Ithought that's something that maybe I could do.
It's really an honor to be on this side of itnow and being able to provide that spark for
the next generation of aviators.
So when a lot of us have that story, right?
Like I think that's one of those, it's it'skind of that core memory that unlocks, and it's
a pivotal moment of going, okay.
(04:35):
This is something I want to do, and then therealization if I can do it because you and I
are both ROTC graduates.
You're Purdue guy.
I went to Marquette.
Actually got to play against your, yourintramural basketball team at the Notre Dame
Invitational ROTC.
I was there.
I was there.
Yeah.
We had our butts handed to us by you guys inninety nine, two thousand Okay.
(04:55):
Badly, but it was still, it was a lot of fun inmeeting meeting everybody and doing that kind
of thing.
Know, you grow all of a sudden, you startmoving on in your career, you start getting a
career, you know, you graduate, whatever.
We all go off and do our separate things, go topilot training.
You went to Euronado joint jet pilot trainingat Wichita Falls, and I went to Vance just up
the road.
That is a different experience in and ofitself.
(05:18):
Can you talk about that and then how it startedto move into the rest of your career as, okay,
you knew that you were gonna fly somethingpointy nose or something that was carrying
bombs most likely.
And then how did that kind of envelop and thenthe rest of what became, you know, the boss of
the Thunderbirds?
Yeah.
Becoming a member of this team was somethingthat I never even had on my radar or thought
(05:42):
was even possible for a very long time.
I didn't have a whole lot of family militarybackground, and there wasn't a lot of military
exposure from where I grew up in Michigan.
So taking that leap and figuring out first ofall, how do I wanna go about doing this and
doing my own homework and figuring out what aresome of the different paths, looking at the
academy, Rozzi and as you mentioned, going toRozzi was one of the decisions I ever made.
(06:05):
It was the perfect blend of having a quoteunquote normal college experience while
dabbling in military and I absolutely loved it.
It was, it was wonderful meeting all the peoplethat actually cared and it gave me a new sense
of patriotism and purpose and and how I wantedto vector my life.
So I would I would say that it was really thethe possibility of flying something like a
(06:29):
fighter jet or in the air force that initiallygot me in, but it's really the people and the
mission and the passion about doing thismission and serving the country is really what
kept me in.
Because that only gets you so you know, the thethe shiny the shiny object only gets you so
far.
You really have to buy in and you have tobelieve in what you're doing and in your
purpose for it to carry through because as youknow, there's many hoops to jump through.
(06:52):
You have to be prepared and and, you know, bebe good at what you're doing, but you also have
to be pretty lucky.
You know, jump through like a lot of themedical hoops and everything like that.
Getting a piles getting a pilot slot throughROTC was great.
Going to NGEP was even better because that waswhat I had wanted to do.
I wanted to fly fighters, then ultimately, Idropped the f 15 e's out of NGEP and started my
(07:13):
flying career at Seymour Johnson.
We have a mutual friend who that's how we gotacquainted.
And I'm assuming you guys met somewhere alongthat path line there in the Strike Eagle
community because and I also remember it'sinteresting because of your trajectory and
we'll talk about, you know, what you flew andall that kind of stuff.
But like, one of the things that I rememberWilde told me was, hey, when he got in the
(07:34):
strike, he was like, I think I flew my lastsolo sortie.
He said, I'm now on a crew airplane for a whileand maybe the rest of my career, maybe I'll
never have another solo flight again.
When you selected so a lot of us go, you know,you go through that phase and you either do
really well like yourself or you do me.
You have moments in pilot training where you'retold that I believe, and I'm trying to find
(07:57):
this because I wanna read it for everybody.
I have a grade sheet that says Lieutenant Yuhonwas a passenger on this ride and it was in big
bold letters.
It was not my shiniest moment, but it was alsoa method to get me back connected to what I was
screwing up because I was I was on an upwardtrajectory.
I was starting to do very well and they wantedto watch the ego from getting too big and make
sure that I was checked.
(08:18):
It was something in in fact, I just I wastalking before we started to Chic that I had I
just watched the Thunderbird documentary onNetflix, and they the your former boss Astro
talks about how he's gonna tear everybodyapart.
Make sure that, hey, we're gonna crush you, butit's for the right reason.
What I think a lot of people don't take fromthat documentary is that starts basically day
(08:40):
one when you show up at pilot training.
And throughout your career, that is our job inthe military as instructors, as pilots, as we
advance through our career field to make surethat the younger generation follows up better
than we ever could do it ourselves.
Is that something you as the boss hear?
It sounds like there's been a pretty dynamicshift in the way the team has been performing
(09:01):
over the last six years or so.
Is that something that you really have taken toheart and be like, hey, I'm here to bring you
along with one hand, but on the other hand,there's days where it's gonna be rough and I
might have to be the taskmaster and not justreward giver.
Absolutely.
There's a mantra that we talk about in weaponschool that is being humble, approachable,
(09:22):
incredible.
And those are characteristics that, you know, Ithink it's much more than a bumper sticker to
me.
Those are the type of people that have thosecharacteristics are who I want to be on a team
with.
And in this business, especially fighterbusiness, a lot of people think Hollywood has a
lot to say about this, right, with Top Gun andIron Eagles and all these other movies about
(09:45):
what fighter pilot is.
Robin Old said it's yeah.
You're a bit cocky and can be arrogant, buttemper that.
You have a lot of high performers.
The most successful people I found are thosethat realize that they're always striving for
something that they're never gonna quite getto.
So we talk a lot about this on this team ofalways reaching for perfection.
(10:08):
That's the bar, and you're gonna catchexcellence along the way.
I didn't make that up.
I think Vince Lombardi said that a long timeago, but that's really what this is all about
is you're on a journey.
And along that journey, if you are able to keepyour mindset right, you're gonna be able to do
some pretty amazing things, especially when yousurround yourself with people that have that
same mindset.
(10:28):
When you talk about that kind of mindset, someof us don't catch on till later.
It seems very early on just judging by yourresume and seeing what the stuff that you've
done.
But you went and you, unlike a lot of us, youactually so started off and you flew strike
eagles right after pilot training.
And then you started to you diverged from thethe eagle path.
(10:48):
And I know a lot of guys who fly eagles, andit's like they get the eagle and that's it.
You know, the eagle's the greatest thing that'sever been made in aviation history.
You said it, not me.
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, I'll tell you what, I've seen them offmy wing a million times and they're beautiful
airplanes.
I was always kind of partial to the F-sixteen.
I don't know why I think it was that corememory from way back when my grandfather took
(11:10):
me to Luke Air Force Base and I saw what Ithought were superheroes walking around and I
didn't realize they were just they were guyslike me.
And it was primarily just guys back then.
So you go from the Strike Eagle and then you goto the newest, most advanced airplane in the
world, the f 35.
What was that transition like?
And were you were you excited?
(11:34):
Was there trepidation?
Was this something like, I have to I gotta godo this.
I gotta see what this thing I I have to seewhat this is capable of and what I'm capable of
in it.
Yes.
I was very nervous.
Really?
The opportunity was presented, and it wasn'tsomething that I sought out either.
So there's a kind of a a thread that goes alongwith a lot of folks' careers in the air force.
(11:54):
It's, you know, opportunity being ready andwhen timing and circumstances will work out.
So I was nervous because I had just graduatedfrom weapons school in the f fifteen e.
I'm at the top of my game or what I hadperceived to be the top of my game.
I'm a tier one weapons officer in a combatsquadron.
We just went downrange fighting ISIS in Iraqand Syria.
And it was at that time when I got a call frommy commander that said, hey.
(12:18):
We have this opportunity.
We're standing up f 30 fives and operationaltests at Nellis, and were pulling from all
these different communities.
They had people from a tens and c models andvipers, and they wanted to get a good, you
know, diverse group of pilots that havedifferent experience.
And and strike eagle, we always had a strikeeagle pilot.
So I would I would be going to replace one ofthe Strike Eagle pilots that was moving on to
(12:39):
another assignment.
When I initially got that call, a lot of peoplethink, absolutely, I'm in a 100%.
But I told my commander, I said, sir, let mehave a night to sleep on and think about it and
talk about it with my wife.
And we did, and I talked about the bros justlike anybody would to go through the brunette.
And everybody said, a 100%, you need to dothis.
This is a great opportunity to contribute in avery meaningful way and go to operational test,
(13:02):
which really develops all the tactics, fliesthe newest software.
We fly the newest weapons, and you your productis handing the warfighter, your frontline
warfighters, something that they can go killand survive in.
That had lot of meaning for me and a lot ofpurpose.
So I was nervous to go because I hadn't flownanother fighter jet in a long time, you know,
(13:24):
teaching an old dog new tricks.
But that experience gave me confidence when itwas then time to transition to the f 16 and we
can talk about that here in a little bit.
But, yeah, the nerves were there.
And and to go back, you know, you mentioned avery successful career and being humble and
push pro incredible.
I'll share a little secret.
Like, I have impostor syndrome big time.
So it comes naturally to me to downgrade andlook at all my flaws first and go, hey.
(13:47):
Do I really belong here?
That conference has has been built up overtime, obviously, and I'm very confident in this
role and what I can do and my capabilities.
But I'm a little bit more inclined to look atthings as too far away and unreachable.
And I encourage anybody that's listening toreally think about that and that's things
aren't too far away.
There are gonna be obstacles in every path orobstacles in my path and, pushing through and
(14:09):
finding ways that people that are successfulare those that find ways to get what they want,
out of life regardless of the circumstances.
I think when somebody hears that even theThunderbird commander can have impostor
syndrome Right.
Anybody can.
And I believe it's a healthy thing to have,especially as you progress through your
aviation career where you feel like, I don'thave it.
(14:30):
I'm not capable.
I can't make this happen.
Whether you're flying a Cessna one fifty two oryou're flying the world's most advanced
tactical fighter in the world, it doesn'tmatter.
Like, you're still learning something that'snew to you and that's challenging.
And aviation should present a challenge to youas you go throughout your career because you
always wanna keep learning.
(14:50):
Yeah.
I how many times have you had the perfectflight?
No.
I from my never zero.
I'm still at zero.
I'll put
I'm gonna always try.
I'm going to try.
And even the days where I know, like and thereare days where it's like, nope.
This one is not good.
Like, know right from the beginning.
I'm still gonna make it as best as I as best asI possibly can.
And that seems like a critical piece inbecoming a Thunderbird and just being able to
(15:16):
overcome not only adversity, showing thatyou're capable and very talented, but also
overcoming adversity not only through yourcareer, but just all the other little nooks and
crannies of your life that get put under amicroscope when you become somebody that's now
a representative for the air force writ atlarge.
What was, do you think, in your mind, thatbiggest challenge and that biggest transitional
(15:38):
piece when you first had to take over as theteam chief for the Thunderbirds?
Because you're a tactical combat pilot, andthen you go into operational test and
evaluation.
You're not an aerial demonstrator by nature.
In fact, none of you ever are.
That's how you start.
And how what what was that challenge like inthat first kind of in the first takeover as or
(16:01):
the first change of command.
Now you're the boss.
You have to figure this out.
What were the challenges like and just thethought process going through your head?
The biggest challenge taking over this team,and I think on the was the flying side.
And for a lot of the pilots is is literally theflying.
And you you hit the nail on the head.
We do not prepare for this type of flying everin the air force because that's that's not, you
(16:23):
know, a general mission of a frontline unit.
So the specificity and the precision at whichyou need to fly this and, oh, by the way, in an
airplane that I'm completely unfamiliar with,you know, I I got qualified in it, you know,
good enough to take off and land and flyinstruments and certainly not employ in combat.
But I got what I needed from that and thenlearning how to fly this demonstration in a
(16:47):
very rapid manner was the most challenging.
It is still very challenging.
It's, you know, said kind of, I think this isfairly accurate.
It takes about 10 sorties and this is specificto flying on this team about 10 sorties and you
start to feel a little comfortable.
Okay, I get it.
About a 100 sorties, you know, 10 times more,you're like, okay, now I'm actually, I think
(17:09):
I'm good at this and a thousand sorties tobecome an expert.
And we never really are on this team longenough to get a thousand sorties.
So you're on this continuum.
They're constantly improving, and you'reconstantly not quite there.
But the idea is that with our practice and ourrepetition and through the high quality of
people that we place on this team and it's notjust the pilots.
(17:30):
We're spending a lot of time talking pilotsbecause we're on the pilot network, but, you
know, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention therest of the team.
All has to be doing the has that samementality.
It has to be pushing to make the demonstrationoutstanding.
And from the maintainers to our public affairsteam to the command support staff, everyone's
working together Yeah.
To make that work.
So for me, the just the flying and and gettingthat down to a point where it was safe and
(17:54):
effective is is the most challenging piece.
I was gonna ask later, but I'll ask it now justbecause you brought it up right now.
I think one of the things so I'm watching thedocumentary and having known and been around
air show stuff and friends on teams and stufflike that.
One of the things that I find to beridiculously challenging is as a military
member, especially a flyer, you go fly rightand then everybody's like, that's your job.
(18:18):
Well, that's not your job.
Your job is to go out on the road and demo leadthe team, not only the pilots, but the other
130 members of the team as well to go out andexecute this show around the world looking
precise and being the role model of the airforce.
The personnel commander, the person who'smaking sure that everybody's getting what they
need to get their jobs done and dealing withany other issues that come up.
(18:42):
Somebody gets sick, team member falls out,there's trouble at home.
How how do you manage that?
That to me seems insurmountable.
I've seen it with squadron commanders, and it'stough when you're not doing that.
I can't imagine being both the team leader inthe air, but then on the ground.
How do you put that all together on a day today basis?
That's a great question.
(19:03):
And the way I describe that to people is sothere's a couple things here.
So one is that this position is a formersquadron commander.
So that you come into Thunderbird one withsquadron command experience.
And that's a pretty recent change in the last,six years or so since twenty nineteen, twenty
eighteen when Albert Caldwell became the boss.
That hadn't been the case before.
(19:23):
And I'm very grateful for that change becauseit enables me to really focus on what I needed
to, which was flying.
In my previous quarter command, I spent 80% ofmy time doing command type duties.
So meetings and communicating up and down thechain of command and taking care of people,
making sure they had the resources they need.
And I spent about 20% flying.
And most of that flying was not as a flightleader.
(19:45):
It was usually as a wingman and I'm flying on atest sortie.
I get the brief and I can go execute and that'sfine.
It's the total opposite on the Thunderbirds.
I'm 80% of my time flying, 20 doing commandduties.
And the only way I can do that is I have anamazing officer corps.
So the Thunderbirds have 12 officers on theteam.
One through six are the demonstration pilots,and then seven through 12 is what we call the
(20:08):
glue because they're the ones that actuallyhold the team together and do all of the work
that is not necessarily related to flying butenables us to do our mission.
Seven is our director of operations.
Eight is the advanced pilot and narrator.
Nine is our flight surgeon, we actually have amedical team that keeps us all healthy.
Thunderbird 10 is our executive officer, allthe administration that you could think of that
(20:30):
comes with running a squadron.
11 is the maintenance officer, and 12 is ourpublic affairs officer.
So all of those officers have very criticalroles and teams that should keep this entire
machine running so that I can focus on theflying.
Because, really, they enable me to keep mycommand duties down to about 20% and only get
involved when I need to, which is when I needto make some major decisions and those do
(20:54):
happen or administer discipline or communicatevision or do those types of things that only I
can do.
That's one of the keys to the success on thisteam is they protect me to enable me to go lead
a safe and effective story.
It's it's amazing.
The story never changes with anywhere in themilitary.
It seems like you're only as good as everybodyelse on the team.
(21:14):
You know, you're strong as your weakest link,and that's why the the selection process is
challenging to get to be a Thunderbird nomatter where you are on the team.
Let's talk about that selection challenge.
I I thought one of the coolest parts about thedocumentary at the end was they showed the
selection of Thunderbird three.
To me, it's always been, well, I know that youcan apply, and I've had friends who've talked
about doing it.
(21:34):
How does that selection process unfold?
One time a year, we'll do a selection process.
So the team transitions about half of theofficers will swap out every year.
So effectively, it's a new team, and some ofthe pilots will switch positions.
Right?
Six becomes five, and either three or two.
Usually, it's three becomes four.
(21:54):
So we're always hiring.
And then we're always hiring a number eight.
Eight is really the only officer position thatis a three year position.
Eight after their year is eight will becomeeither three or two potentially as they're
going into the diamond or they'll go to six andthen become five the following year.
So that's kind of the dynamic that sets up whowe're looking to hire.
(22:15):
When it's time to hire, the hiring message willgo out and people will send in their
applications.
We'll go through it.
We put a spreadsheet.
Some and there isn't really a rubricnecessarily.
Some people will have their own rubrics andwill score it and will determine who we're
gonna bring out to semifinals and we'llsemifinals will identify a month of shows that
we wanna bring out the semifinalist to, andthey will come out.
(22:36):
It's very informal, but it's really anopportunity for us to get to know them and for
them to get to know the team and the missionbecause they get to see us in our natural
environment, which is being on the road.
And we get to see how that interaction happens,and then we'll convene a meeting with all the
officers and we'll get our the enlisted inputas well through the chief and and our shirt.
And then we'll pick our finalists.
And for finalists, we we bring them out toNellis.
(22:58):
That's a whole, that's a week long TDY for themwhere the pilots will go fly.
They'll do a flying evaluation.
So even if they're not at 16 pilots, they'llget their first ride in a back seat in the D
model, pulling those down trim and they'redoing loops and rolls off of me out in the
range, that's where we really get to assess,the hands.
You know?
And really, we're looking for, you know, isanybody completely unsafe doing anything that's
(23:20):
dumb daggers or different?
Okay.
Or, hey.
Golden hands, you know, if he or she has thegolden ticket.
I haven't really seen any of those in my timeon the team.
That's very, very rare to see something likethat.
But most people fall in the middle and it'sreally about how do you handle your how do you
conduct yourself during the flight?
Are you able to notice the mistakes, recognizethem and not make it a big deal and be able to
(23:41):
get back in there?
Are you fighting for position and are you doingit in a safe in a safe way?
And then after finals, so that's when we'llconvene everybody.
There's also interviews that go into that weekas well.
We get all the inputs from everybody, and theneventually, we'll make our recommendations to
the fifty seventh wing commander who's a onestar general who then continue to make the
recommendations.
And the selections are done by the commander ofair combat command, four star general.
(24:04):
So you're talking a lot of visibility on this,but a lot goes into it to ensure that we're
picking the right people.
And I tell my teammates, even for our enlistedfolks, there's a couple things.
One is selecting your replacement is the mostimportant thing you do on this time on this
team.
Besides doing a safe and effectivedemonstration.
Okay.
That's a given.
That's our mission.
But, you know, selecting your replacement issomething that should be on the forefront of
(24:27):
your mind as soon as you realize you're gonnabe on this team.
Who do you trust enough to replace you to takethis team to the next level?
I want the next team to be better than thisteam and I want that to continue out through
history and that's what I want everybody'sattitude to be when they're taking this role.
That's awesome.
I love to hear that kind of thing.
That kind of leads me in that.
So excuse me.
I mean, I could talk about this kind of stufffor a while, but I know that a lot of people
(24:49):
wanna hear about, like, behind the show stuff,the stuff they hear, the stuff they see.
And one of the coolest things so my wife, mykids, I love it still to this day.
I've always loved the radio chatter.
I mean, it's what drew me right away inaviation.
I remember coming up initial, it was look good.
Coming up initial, sound cool on the radios,and everything else is gravy.
Right?
Well, you guys you guys have always soundedcool on the radios.
(25:10):
It speaking of like that, the cadence, it's gota reason.
Why why do you do that?
Yeah.
It's really hard to well, habits.
Right?
And expectations and really building that habitpattern that can't be broken so that no matter
where we're at if you think about it, we'reflying in all these different a lot of people
(25:31):
don't understand when they just go to theMilwaukee show, go, oh, the Thunderbirds are
here.
We were just came from a show site and we'regoing to a show site after we do Milwaukee, but
wherever we are at and when we're preparing forthat, we are a 100% in on that show site.
Milwaukee, I remember has these 3,000 foottowers that are about almost two mile and a
half to two miles back left that are right onmy line that when we break out for the low
(25:53):
bombers, if I just flew straight and flew mynormal line, I would die.
I would crash right into those towers.
And I actually had to climb quite a bit to getup and over and then I gotta get back down on
my airspeed, of course, and heading in altitudeto be exactly so we cross at the same point in
space, same time with only 50 foot stacks aswe're all coming from four different
directions.
So that's that's that's no small task and theway we mitigate that is by trying to keep
(26:18):
everything the exact same.
So we just beat in that cadence during trainingseason over and over and you know, I could sing
it in my sleep and that's that's one of thosethings that we talked to earlier that was so
difficult.
It's like memorizing a play, and I'm not athespian by any stretch of the imagination,
but, it's you know, if you're in, like, a kidand you did a play, it's like, what's my line?
(26:38):
You can't go line.
Yeah.
You can't go 500 knots, 200 feet above theground, you know, point on the line.
What do I say?
Pull up again.
You just have to have that rote memorization.
And it's funny too.
You get this point in the season.
They can tell the difference betweenmicroseconds.
If I have a hesitation or a hiccup in mycadence, they can tell on the intonation even
(26:58):
if it's on timing if the note is different.
They know something's up.
Like boss might not like this or he's trying todo something else.
And those are all cues to the wingman becausewhen you're flying as close as we do, they
can't rely on their sight alone.
It's too close.
So the cadence and I'll give you an example.
So when I go, I'm gonna turn left.
So left turn is the command.
(27:19):
The t in turn is when everybody initiates leftstick input so we all turn together as opposed
to you see me you see me turn a little bit andthen they catch up.
So in order to get this, they have to be goingon that cadence, left turn, we're all going the
same direction, and then they're using theireyeballs to refine that.
So I I call it the course movement is they goon the that when they're supposed to on my
(27:42):
cadence, and then they're fine or fine is usingtheir eyeballs, and they're making those very
fine corrections so that to the audience, itall just looks like a very everyone's doing the
exact same thing at the exact same time.
Wow.
That and knowing my little bit of formation inthe t 37, I it was always lead goes and then
you kind of follow and they tuck in there.
You're not doing it all at the same time.
That's not what it looks like when you're firststarting out, especially when you're sixty
(28:06):
hours in a twin engine jet from 1955.
The so talking about the radio stuff, do do thesolos talk to each other while they're out
there bombing around?
So are you hearing them too?
Absolutely.
I am.
The wingman will have them turned down, sowe'll do split volume.
So, we have a UHF and a VHF, and we'll splitwho's talking on on which radio.
But I'll have my diamond formation turned upand I'll have the solos turned down a little
(28:30):
bit.
So when I hear a a slightly weaker calm, I'llknow that's a soloist talking.
So they're constantly talking to each other.
They're telling them the lead soloist tellingwhen to hack, when to turn on the smoke, right,
when the hits happening so they know when to dotheir either knife edge or go from inverted to
inverted on their hits.
So everybody's talking to each other and it'sall coordinated.
My comm is coordinated with them as well.
(28:51):
So I know when they're setting up for a shortmaneuver, I should be in this part of the show.
So it's, you know, it's more than just metalking to my wingman.
It's also a choreographed timing piece thatreally helps it helps this entire show work so
that it operates the way it should be, which isyou should see the diamond solos, diamond
solos, and then and then you get us to, youknow, do the hits, and we come together all at
(29:15):
the right time so that the shows are veryconsistent throughout, the season.
They look great.
Like I said, I was talking before we started.
I got to see you guys last year.
I got see she fly with the team last year overMilwaukee 2024.
The best Thunderbird show I've ever seen.
It was a great show.
I had so much fun.
It was great to be there with a friend of oursas well and just see it from the eyes of and
all the family members being there too.
(29:36):
Was was so cool for me.
Speaking of that, we know how challengingfamily life can be for the military, but
there's also that sense of culture that'sbehind every squadron.
And obviously you're a very different squadronthan anywhere else in the world.
What is that culture like behind the show, thescenes that we don't get to see that family
life both with the families of the team membersbut also the family that is the 130 plus
(30:01):
members of the Thunderbirds?
The families bear the brunt of honestly the thetough parts about this team, and that's
something I talk about upfront with people thatare applying and when we get into our first one
on ones is you have to prepare your family forthe rigors of this job.
And it's tough in any military job because yougo, you deploy or you're you're a TDY on
(30:22):
temporary duty, quite often, but that that isour mission.
Right?
So we're gone quite a bit and it always seemsto be the case.
I'm sure you can relate.
As soon as you leave, that's when thedishwasher breaks or the car breaks down or
whatever the kids get sick or and that is verytrue on this team as well.
So how do we mitigate that?
We mitigate that with a really good familyenvironment.
So that was one thing that was important to methat we are as family friendly as we can be.
(30:46):
So in this squadron, we don't have any vaults.
There's no off really off limits areas.
So I say when we're home, bring your familiesout, have have them come out and have lunch,
you know, like we should be seeing we got kidsrunning up and down the hallways all day, which
is very different from a lot of other militarysquadrons that you've been in.
But I think that's important to incorporate thefamilies.
A lot of the families will also come out on theroad with us when they can.
(31:09):
And you mentioned air shows doing things tomake it as family friendly as possible,
especially for the little kids.
And my wife had a great idea of making a toybag.
So one of the bags we throw on the pallet nowis just this duffel bag that's got all kinds of
toys in it, dinosaurs and puzzle pieces andblocks and all that and we bring it to show
center to the friends and family tent and wedon't usually go on.
(31:32):
We usually close the show around two, three,sometimes 04:00 and by then kids are smoked,
They just wanna go home.
Don't they could care less about an air show.
But that was one of the little things that thatthat we could do.
My wife was amazing at thinking about that andbringing that out and we took that around and
and that keeps the kids engaged and happy andthey could care less about They've seen a
thousand, you know, jets flying.
(31:53):
Yeah.
Right?
Keeps the families engaged, and it keeps thatthat kind of that tight knit group that we've,
we've developed into the culture here.
Yeah.
I think, you know, the two things jumped out tothe Thunderbird day care clinic.
Totally branding opportunity right there.
Number one and number two for all of you outthere, whether you're, it doesn't matter if
you're traveling all the time, you wanna, youwanna make your spouse life a lot easier.
(32:14):
Have a go bag with toys in it no matter whereyou're going, what you're doing.
I'll tell you if the kids got to sit at theairport for five hours while your non rev
traveling to, it really helps, especially ifyour wife forgets the the most favorite toy and
you're the one who remembers it, you're thehero.
So, your wife's onto something there.
That's ingenious.
That's right.
I throw a tip too that the easy button, a lotof people have the iPad or the phone.
(32:36):
I'd recommend getting a Dahlia needs a littlebag.
I mean, there's a lot of studies showing thatthat might not be the best thing for all the
kids.
I get there's time and a place for that, but,you know, get some blocks, get some dinosaurs,
get some little action figures.
Right?
Things that we, you know, grew up with thatstimulate the imagination a little bit.
Yeah.
Fidget spinners, anything that they can messwith with their hands, they all get they'll be
into it.
At least at least and if you have enough ofthem, they can jump from what each one every
(32:58):
five minutes, and then they've got some timebefore, before it's time to the real meltdowns
happen.
I know I deal with it on the regular.
A couple, fun questions just that I wanted toknow.
Alright.
And these are kind of more quick hitters.
What's harder?
Aerial demonstration or no kidding combat?
Almost quick hitters.
Yeah.
(33:18):
Right?
Yeah.
That's a real a real banger right there.
So I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna say aerialaerial demonstration.
Just from a technical flying standpoint, thereis specifically on this team.
The the stakes are very high, for mistake.
The margins are very, very slim.
You could you make that same argument forcombat, but I think you could probably relate
(33:41):
that, you know, most of my combat time was, youknow, 90% burning holes in the sky looking at
it, named areas of interest.
Yep.
The other 10% was like, could be sheer terrorand like absolutely crazy hair on fire.
But, day in and day out, I think aerialdemonstration, this type of flying is is the
most challenging I've ever done.
Yeah.
Not and not surprised.
(34:01):
That's kinda what I was thinking.
Favorite air show moment.
I know that's tough, but maybe not a favorite.
Maybe one that sticks out that you reallyenjoy.
Yeah.
There's there's something each brief, we have agoal of, what what maneuver are you gonna try
and perfect today?
And 99% of the time, don't get it.
But it's that moment.
There was a a diamond pass interview.
(34:23):
I think it was at Tyndall last year.
And it's usually over the water because it'snice and smooth.
When you just absolutely grease a maneuver andyou you nail it and you get the perfect optic,
that is pretty special.
But I'd I'd have to say one of my favorite onesas well was when we nailed the Super Bowl
flyover.
That was very early on last year and was veryconcerned because I maybe had been on the team
(34:46):
for, like, a couple months flying and leadingand we're doing our training season.
That was a big deal and it was a hometown, LasVegas.
You know, Reba was a pro.
She nailed the timing.
You know flyovers are very contingent on thesinger.
We get that, but absolutely nailed it.
So that was a lot of fun too.
I got a I got a good Flyover story, but we'llsave that for another time where we did not
nail it, but think
Did not really.
(35:07):
Yeah.
Hey.
The roof the roof was closed and nobody knew.
It worked out for us.
They had a camera on us.
It looked good, but no, we did not nail it atall.
You guys have an awesome playlist.
Right?
Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, demo teams all havethese great playlists.
When
you're walking out to the jet, what's thewhat's the playlist going on your head?
What's that lead song getting you amped
up to go out there?
(35:27):
Yeah.
I'm usually thinking about what I'm supposed tobe doing.
Like, left foot, right foot, left foot, orwhich foot?
No.
Right foot.
No.
What was it?
Which one was next, though?
So I I'm usually, honestly, listening to themusic that we have playing, which is it's
something like this.
It's not this, but the Star Wars death, youknow, star of Vader death.
Ciao.
Yeah.
There
(35:48):
you go.
Hey.
That's perfect.
We're bringing we're coming.
Yeah.
And the well, and when the boss walks out tothe Imperial March, it it puts everybody in in
line.
They're
Yeah.
Right.
Everyone.
Yep.
Ships up a little bit.
Lock up just a little bit.
Gets a little tighter down there.
Alright.
Best thing about Wichita Falls that youremember.
Oh.
So we had the, we bought this short bus fromthe class before us and we painted with the
(36:14):
they had run the engine out of oil.
So we said we would buy it from them andreplace the motor.
So during our week or so before we're doing ouracademics, had we one of my my classmates was a
mechanical engineer.
Just a genius.
He was a genius when it came to anythingmechanical.
He rebuilt we rebuilt the engineer his, youknow, grease monkeys and or fixing it, and he
was the the leader of that.
(36:35):
So we rebuilt the engine.
Then we got t 38 paint, actual mil spec t 38paint like a t 38, put the tail flashes on
there, and driving around in the short bus,Wichita Falls going out for a a Friday or
Saturday night.
I believe in the O club, that I'll neverforget.
That was some great memories.
So that those are those are fantastic.
I a couple of those.
You say something like that pops in my head,little things here and there.
(36:56):
Some can be shared.
Others are very internal to the class.
I think I I would be remiss if I didn't ask thequestion that I think you probably get asked
the most.
The friend friendly rivalry between the navyblue angels and you guys.
We know you operate together and all that kindof stuff.
I don't I get that.
How much fun is it though when you actually getto work together with them?
(37:18):
There was the flyover of New York where youwhere you're all formed up.
I mean, those are special moments.
We don't get to see those as as just a regularviewing audience very often.
But how much fun is it for you guys when youget to actually go work with your your rivals,
from the Navy?
It's incredible.
And you said it perfectly.
Yeah.
We're it's a friendly rivalry.
(37:38):
I I I call a sibling rivalry.
Sure.
Right?
We both have very similar, if not the samemissions and just doing with different
airplanes, but the same quality of people.
They're all absolutely they're great people,professionals through and through.
And it's an honor when we get to go to ElCentro and they host us.
They go to El Centro for their entire wintertraining.
We go there for our last week and a half, getour FAA certification prior to our our, our
(38:02):
full certification from our air forceleadership.
But it's super cool.
We get to exchange rides, exchange bestpractices, and we even did this year.
We reinitiated a exchange program where weactually sent a few of our troops.
They sent us a couple of theirs, and we learneda lot.
We learned a lot from from them, and I I hopethey learned a lot from us because that's the
goal.
(38:22):
We're always trying to make this better.
That's what we should be should be doing.
And we'll always give each other grief in avery friendly way but it's it's an incredible
experience and it's really surreal as kind ofan air show nerd and a, you know, fighter jet
nerd that you get to go hang out with, youknow, the the other team and see how they do
business.
Well, man.
I I owe your team a debt of gratitude.
(38:44):
I kept you over a couple minutes.
Last part parting thoughts for those out therewho, you know, maybe this is in their future,
they're young and coming up or people who arejust a huge fan like I am, know, fanboy.
I get to kind of live vicariously through, youguys a little bit, just being part of that air
show circuit and dreaming of what it could havebeen.
Those parting thoughts out there for those ofus who had the dream or who have the dream
(39:06):
right now and want to be in your shoes one day?
Yeah, for those that have the dream or have thebug, you gotta start.
Gotta start somewhere.
I started flying Cessna 152s in high schoolbecause I was sitting next to a girl in physics
class that was telling me about how she had hersolo ride the day before.
And I was like, what do mean?
You're flying airplanes?
And that was it.
(39:27):
I asked my mom for a discovery flight.
She got that present for my birthday and Ithought she could get the flying bug out of my
system.
I came back with grinning ear to ear.
She goes, Oh boy, have created a monster.
And that's exactly what happened.
So that's my advice for those that areinspired.
You got to start and only you can do that.
So start doing some research.
There's plenty of information out thereespecially in this day and age.
(39:48):
Go to your local FBO.
Go to your local small town airport.
There's probably a flight school.
Go get a discovery flight.
See if flying is something that's in your bloodand something that that you wanna pursue and
do.
There are a lot of people that have that samebug that can't fly for whatever reason, medical
or finances.
There's plenty of other ways to get involved.
So go talk to a recruiter, you know, whetherit's air force or military or not even
(40:08):
military, something that you wanna you wanna dosomething meaningful and purposeful, go find a
way to serve.
Go away to find a way to serve your community,your country and contribute, in that way.
And for those that can't do either, come outand see us at a show.
And if you haven't seen a Thunderbird show in afew years, it's been a while, come back and see
us at a show.
Our our show show schedule is on our website.
(40:30):
You can look at that.
It's AF Thunderbirds.
You can follow us on Instagram, Facebook, thosetypes of things and get the information that
way.
We love to see you out there and we'd love to,talk to you and hopefully, give you some of
that inspiration.
Yeah.
We'll post all that stuff.
Sheikh, thanks again.
I really appreciate it.
This has been awesome.
I have about a thousand more questions that Ididn't even get to and that's fine.
And if anybody else's questions out there, hitme at heyguys@thepilotnetwork.com.
(40:54):
I'll forward them on to Sheik and the team.
They'll come back.
I'll report back on on anything that you guyswanna know about.
This is a great group of people having workedwith them just a little bit and and seeing
where the air force is going and with thepeople like Sheik and others on the
Thunderbirds and knowing that the hands outthere are careful ones and ones that are humble
and very credible and also beyond approachable.
(41:16):
I thank you very much for the time again,Sheik.
This was awesome.
Keep that shiny side up, greasy side down, flysafe.
Welcome back to the Pilot Network podcast, theplace where we connect aviators with the tools,
resources, and stories to help them navigatetheir careers and lives.
I'm your host, Adam Yuhan.
Today's guest is one of the most recognizablepilots in the world, but more importantly he's
the kind of leader you'd want in your squadron.
Colonel Nathan Sheikh Malafa is Thunderbirdone, the commander and team leader of the
(00:39):
United States Air Force Demonstration Squadron,also known as the Thunderbirds.
And sure, you've seen the videos, the flyovers,the diamond formation tearing across the sky,
but what you haven't seen is the human beingbehind that visor, what it took to get there,
what it takes to stay sharp, and how themission is way more than just flying cool jets
with sweet paint jobs.
(01:00):
Sheik's flown the F-15E Strike Eagle, theF-thirty five Lightning II, and now the
F-sixteen Viper.
I mean the Fighting Falcon.
He's a weapons school grad, a former testsquadron commander, and he's logged over three
thousand five hundred hours including 800 plusin combat.
But that's not the most impressive part, atleast not to me.
What stood out, and I think it will stand outto you as well, is his mindset.
(01:22):
He's humble, approachable, credible, all thethings that make a great Weapon School grad and
an awesome dude.
He's focused on excellence, not ego, and so ishis team of more than 130 people.
This one's got leadership, culture, family, anda few good stories from flying air shows all
over the world.
Let's take a look behind the curtain withThunderbird one, Boss Sheik.
(01:43):
Standby.
Smoke.
Smoke on her team now.
Smoke on her now.
Thunderbirds, release picture ready now.
Partners now.
Colonel Nathan Sheikh Malafa, thank you forjoining me.
I really appreciate it.
Thunderbird one, you heard it all in the intro.
How are you do I know we're midseason, soyou're busy.
How are you guys how's the season going so far?
Right.
Happy to be here.
(02:03):
The season's been great.
It's also been full of challenges, which is noshortage of that on this team.
As you can imagine, we're on the road ninemonths out of the year, and we take eight jets
every location.
We're in two major cities or basically everyweek and yeah and it's it's been full
challenge.
We'll get into some of those in a bit but it'sbeen an absolute blast and just having a great
(02:27):
time.
We're actually fresh off of a break, so we gotour week long break for a summer safety break,
and then we're back in Chicago or excuse me,Gary, and then Chicago, and Davenport is our
next trip for the next three weeks.
What one whole week?
Wow.
What a what a what a long period of off time.
I know most airline and military pilots wouldbe going, one week.
That's it?
Come on.
This is, that's not gonna cut it.
(02:48):
But, you you guys have a much different profileand mission than a lot of us did preserved.
But the getting there, that this is not a road.
This is a road very few travel, and a lot of ushave very similar origin stories in flying.
You and I kind of share a very similar originstory in flying.
When did it first click that maybe thisaviation thing was, yeah, this is what I wanna
(03:11):
do for a living.
Right.
So I was, let's see.
I was about seven or eight years old when mydad took me to an air show.
I'm from Michigan originally as we talkedabout, and we went to Muskegon Air Show, which
is out on Lake Michigan.
And I actually went there because I wanted tosee the army guys.
I wanna see the army trucks and the guns andthey had a tent set up with all that stuff and
(03:32):
I played with a little green army man and I setthem up and have my own air force.
And I was sitting there watching, you know,playing with the the guns, looking at the tanks
and the different weapons and all of suddenthis f 15 eagle comes ripping ripping across
the the airstrip and put the put the, you know,the toys down and like started to look at the
airplane.
I walked over the flight line and I watched it.
(03:53):
That airplane just tear holes in the sky, andit was an awesome the word awesome is overused,
but it was awesome.
Right?
I have eyes wide open.
And what really blew my mind, it was it wascool watching the demo, but what really blew my
mind was after the airplane landed, taxis back,canopy opens and somebody gets out of the
cockpit.
(04:13):
That's when the synapse was fired, then Ithought that's something that maybe I could do.
It's really an honor to be on this side of itnow and being able to provide that spark for
the next generation of aviators.
So when a lot of us have that story, right?
Like I think that's one of those, it's it'skind of that core memory that unlocks, and it's
a pivotal moment of going, okay.
(04:35):
This is something I want to do, and then therealization if I can do it because you and I
are both ROTC graduates.
You're Purdue guy.
I went to Marquette.
Actually got to play against your, yourintramural basketball team at the Notre Dame
Invitational ROTC.
I was there.
I was there.
Yeah.
We had our butts handed to us by you guys inninety nine, two thousand Okay.
(04:55):
Badly, but it was still, it was a lot of fun inmeeting meeting everybody and doing that kind
of thing.
Know, you grow all of a sudden, you startmoving on in your career, you start getting a
career, you know, you graduate, whatever.
We all go off and do our separate things, go topilot training.
You went to Euronado joint jet pilot trainingat Wichita Falls, and I went to Vance just up
the road.
That is a different experience in and ofitself.
(05:18):
Can you talk about that and then how it startedto move into the rest of your career as, okay,
you knew that you were gonna fly somethingpointy nose or something that was carrying
bombs most likely.
And then how did that kind of envelop and thenthe rest of what became, you know, the boss of
the Thunderbirds?
Yeah.
Becoming a member of this team was somethingthat I never even had on my radar or thought
(05:42):
was even possible for a very long time.
I didn't have a whole lot of family militarybackground, and there wasn't a lot of military
exposure from where I grew up in Michigan.
So taking that leap and figuring out first ofall, how do I wanna go about doing this and
doing my own homework and figuring out what aresome of the different paths, looking at the
academy, Rozzi and as you mentioned, going toRozzi was one of the decisions I ever made.
(06:05):
It was the perfect blend of having a quoteunquote normal college experience while
dabbling in military and I absolutely loved it.
It was, it was wonderful meeting all the peoplethat actually cared and it gave me a new sense
of patriotism and purpose and and how I wantedto vector my life.
So I would I would say that it was really thethe possibility of flying something like a
(06:29):
fighter jet or in the air force that initiallygot me in, but it's really the people and the
mission and the passion about doing thismission and serving the country is really what
kept me in.
Because that only gets you so you know, the thethe shiny the shiny object only gets you so
far.
You really have to buy in and you have tobelieve in what you're doing and in your
purpose for it to carry through because as youknow, there's many hoops to jump through.
(06:52):
You have to be prepared and and, you know, bebe good at what you're doing, but you also have
to be pretty lucky.
You know, jump through like a lot of themedical hoops and everything like that.
Getting a piles getting a pilot slot throughROTC was great.
Going to NGEP was even better because that waswhat I had wanted to do.
I wanted to fly fighters, then ultimately, Idropped the f 15 e's out of NGEP and started my
(07:13):
flying career at Seymour Johnson.
We have a mutual friend who that's how we gotacquainted.
And I'm assuming you guys met somewhere alongthat path line there in the Strike Eagle
community because and I also remember it'sinteresting because of your trajectory and
we'll talk about, you know, what you flew andall that kind of stuff.
But like, one of the things that I rememberWilde told me was, hey, when he got in the
(07:34):
strike, he was like, I think I flew my lastsolo sortie.
He said, I'm now on a crew airplane for a whileand maybe the rest of my career, maybe I'll
never have another solo flight again.
When you selected so a lot of us go, you know,you go through that phase and you either do
really well like yourself or you do me.
You have moments in pilot training where you'retold that I believe, and I'm trying to find
(07:57):
this because I wanna read it for everybody.
I have a grade sheet that says Lieutenant Yuhonwas a passenger on this ride and it was in big
bold letters.
It was not my shiniest moment, but it was alsoa method to get me back connected to what I was
screwing up because I was I was on an upwardtrajectory.
I was starting to do very well and they wantedto watch the ego from getting too big and make
sure that I was checked.
(08:18):
It was something in in fact, I just I wastalking before we started to Chic that I had I
just watched the Thunderbird documentary onNetflix, and they the your former boss Astro
talks about how he's gonna tear everybodyapart.
Make sure that, hey, we're gonna crush you, butit's for the right reason.
What I think a lot of people don't take fromthat documentary is that starts basically day
(08:40):
one when you show up at pilot training.
And throughout your career, that is our job inthe military as instructors, as pilots, as we
advance through our career field to make surethat the younger generation follows up better
than we ever could do it ourselves.
Is that something you as the boss hear?
It sounds like there's been a pretty dynamicshift in the way the team has been performing
(09:01):
over the last six years or so.
Is that something that you really have taken toheart and be like, hey, I'm here to bring you
along with one hand, but on the other hand,there's days where it's gonna be rough and I
might have to be the taskmaster and not justreward giver.
Absolutely.
There's a mantra that we talk about in weaponschool that is being humble, approachable,
(09:22):
incredible.
And those are characteristics that, you know, Ithink it's much more than a bumper sticker to
me.
Those are the type of people that have thosecharacteristics are who I want to be on a team
with.
And in this business, especially fighterbusiness, a lot of people think Hollywood has a
lot to say about this, right, with Top Gun andIron Eagles and all these other movies about
(09:45):
what fighter pilot is.
Robin Old said it's yeah.
You're a bit cocky and can be arrogant, buttemper that.
You have a lot of high performers.
The most successful people I found are thosethat realize that they're always striving for
something that they're never gonna quite getto.
So we talk a lot about this on this team ofalways reaching for perfection.
(10:08):
That's the bar, and you're gonna catchexcellence along the way.
I didn't make that up.
I think Vince Lombardi said that a long timeago, but that's really what this is all about
is you're on a journey.
And along that journey, if you are able to keepyour mindset right, you're gonna be able to do
some pretty amazing things, especially when yousurround yourself with people that have that
same mindset.
(10:28):
When you talk about that kind of mindset, someof us don't catch on till later.
It seems very early on just judging by yourresume and seeing what the stuff that you've
done.
But you went and you, unlike a lot of us, youactually so started off and you flew strike
eagles right after pilot training.
And then you started to you diverged from thethe eagle path.
(10:48):
And I know a lot of guys who fly eagles, andit's like they get the eagle and that's it.
You know, the eagle's the greatest thing that'sever been made in aviation history.
You said it, not me.
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, I'll tell you what, I've seen them offmy wing a million times and they're beautiful
airplanes.
I was always kind of partial to the F-sixteen.
I don't know why I think it was that corememory from way back when my grandfather took
(11:10):
me to Luke Air Force Base and I saw what Ithought were superheroes walking around and I
didn't realize they were just they were guyslike me.
And it was primarily just guys back then.
So you go from the Strike Eagle and then you goto the newest, most advanced airplane in the
world, the f 35.
What was that transition like?
And were you were you excited?
(11:34):
Was there trepidation?
Was this something like, I have to I gotta godo this.
I gotta see what this thing I I have to seewhat this is capable of and what I'm capable of
in it.
Yes.
I was very nervous.
Really?
The opportunity was presented, and it wasn'tsomething that I sought out either.
So there's a kind of a a thread that goes alongwith a lot of folks' careers in the air force.
(11:54):
It's, you know, opportunity being ready andwhen timing and circumstances will work out.
So I was nervous because I had just graduatedfrom weapons school in the f fifteen e.
I'm at the top of my game or what I hadperceived to be the top of my game.
I'm a tier one weapons officer in a combatsquadron.
We just went downrange fighting ISIS in Iraqand Syria.
And it was at that time when I got a call frommy commander that said, hey.
(12:18):
We have this opportunity.
We're standing up f 30 fives and operationaltests at Nellis, and were pulling from all
these different communities.
They had people from a tens and c models andvipers, and they wanted to get a good, you
know, diverse group of pilots that havedifferent experience.
And and strike eagle, we always had a strikeeagle pilot.
So I would I would be going to replace one ofthe Strike Eagle pilots that was moving on to
(12:39):
another assignment.
When I initially got that call, a lot of peoplethink, absolutely, I'm in a 100%.
But I told my commander, I said, sir, let mehave a night to sleep on and think about it and
talk about it with my wife.
And we did, and I talked about the bros justlike anybody would to go through the brunette.
And everybody said, a 100%, you need to dothis.
This is a great opportunity to contribute in avery meaningful way and go to operational test,
(13:02):
which really develops all the tactics, fliesthe newest software.
We fly the newest weapons, and you your productis handing the warfighter, your frontline
warfighters, something that they can go killand survive in.
That had lot of meaning for me and a lot ofpurpose.
So I was nervous to go because I hadn't flownanother fighter jet in a long time, you know,
(13:24):
teaching an old dog new tricks.
But that experience gave me confidence when itwas then time to transition to the f 16 and we
can talk about that here in a little bit.
But, yeah, the nerves were there.
And and to go back, you know, you mentioned avery successful career and being humble and
push pro incredible.
I'll share a little secret.
Like, I have impostor syndrome big time.
So it comes naturally to me to downgrade andlook at all my flaws first and go, hey.
(13:47):
Do I really belong here?
That conference has has been built up overtime, obviously, and I'm very confident in this
role and what I can do and my capabilities.
But I'm a little bit more inclined to look atthings as too far away and unreachable.
And I encourage anybody that's listening toreally think about that and that's things
aren't too far away.
There are gonna be obstacles in every path orobstacles in my path and, pushing through and
(14:09):
finding ways that people that are successfulare those that find ways to get what they want,
out of life regardless of the circumstances.
I think when somebody hears that even theThunderbird commander can have impostor
syndrome Right.
Anybody can.
And I believe it's a healthy thing to have,especially as you progress through your
aviation career where you feel like, I don'thave it.
(14:30):
I'm not capable.
I can't make this happen.
Whether you're flying a Cessna one fifty two oryou're flying the world's most advanced
tactical fighter in the world, it doesn'tmatter.
Like, you're still learning something that'snew to you and that's challenging.
And aviation should present a challenge to youas you go throughout your career because you
always wanna keep learning.
(14:50):
Yeah.
I how many times have you had the perfectflight?
No.
I from my never zero.
I'm still at zero.
I'll put
I'm gonna always try.
I'm going to try.
And even the days where I know, like and thereare days where it's like, nope.
This one is not good.
Like, know right from the beginning.
I'm still gonna make it as best as I as best asI possibly can.
And that seems like a critical piece inbecoming a Thunderbird and just being able to
(15:16):
overcome not only adversity, showing thatyou're capable and very talented, but also
overcoming adversity not only through yourcareer, but just all the other little nooks and
crannies of your life that get put under amicroscope when you become somebody that's now
a representative for the air force writ atlarge.
What was, do you think, in your mind, thatbiggest challenge and that biggest transitional
(15:38):
piece when you first had to take over as theteam chief for the Thunderbirds?
Because you're a tactical combat pilot, andthen you go into operational test and
evaluation.
You're not an aerial demonstrator by nature.
In fact, none of you ever are.
That's how you start.
And how what what was that challenge like inthat first kind of in the first takeover as or
(16:01):
the first change of command.
Now you're the boss.
You have to figure this out.
What were the challenges like and just thethought process going through your head?
The biggest challenge taking over this team,and I think on the was the flying side.
And for a lot of the pilots is is literally theflying.
And you you hit the nail on the head.
We do not prepare for this type of flying everin the air force because that's that's not, you
(16:23):
know, a general mission of a frontline unit.
So the specificity and the precision at whichyou need to fly this and, oh, by the way, in an
airplane that I'm completely unfamiliar with,you know, I I got qualified in it, you know,
good enough to take off and land and flyinstruments and certainly not employ in combat.
But I got what I needed from that and thenlearning how to fly this demonstration in a
(16:47):
very rapid manner was the most challenging.
It is still very challenging.
It's, you know, said kind of, I think this isfairly accurate.
It takes about 10 sorties and this is specificto flying on this team about 10 sorties and you
start to feel a little comfortable.
Okay, I get it.
About a 100 sorties, you know, 10 times more,you're like, okay, now I'm actually, I think
(17:09):
I'm good at this and a thousand sorties tobecome an expert.
And we never really are on this team longenough to get a thousand sorties.
So you're on this continuum.
They're constantly improving, and you'reconstantly not quite there.
But the idea is that with our practice and ourrepetition and through the high quality of
people that we place on this team and it's notjust the pilots.
(17:30):
We're spending a lot of time talking pilotsbecause we're on the pilot network, but, you
know, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention therest of the team.
All has to be doing the has that samementality.
It has to be pushing to make the demonstrationoutstanding.
And from the maintainers to our public affairsteam to the command support staff, everyone's
working together Yeah.
To make that work.
So for me, the just the flying and and gettingthat down to a point where it was safe and
(17:54):
effective is is the most challenging piece.
I was gonna ask later, but I'll ask it now justbecause you brought it up right now.
I think one of the things so I'm watching thedocumentary and having known and been around
air show stuff and friends on teams and stufflike that.
One of the things that I find to beridiculously challenging is as a military
member, especially a flyer, you go fly rightand then everybody's like, that's your job.
(18:18):
Well, that's not your job.
Your job is to go out on the road and demo leadthe team, not only the pilots, but the other
130 members of the team as well to go out andexecute this show around the world looking
precise and being the role model of the airforce.
The personnel commander, the person who'smaking sure that everybody's getting what they
need to get their jobs done and dealing withany other issues that come up.
(18:42):
Somebody gets sick, team member falls out,there's trouble at home.
How how do you manage that?
That to me seems insurmountable.
I've seen it with squadron commanders, and it'stough when you're not doing that.
I can't imagine being both the team leader inthe air, but then on the ground.
How do you put that all together on a day today basis?
That's a great question.
(19:03):
And the way I describe that to people is sothere's a couple things here.
So one is that this position is a formersquadron commander.
So that you come into Thunderbird one withsquadron command experience.
And that's a pretty recent change in the last,six years or so since twenty nineteen, twenty
eighteen when Albert Caldwell became the boss.
That hadn't been the case before.
(19:23):
And I'm very grateful for that change becauseit enables me to really focus on what I needed
to, which was flying.
In my previous quarter command, I spent 80% ofmy time doing command type duties.
So meetings and communicating up and down thechain of command and taking care of people,
making sure they had the resources they need.
And I spent about 20% flying.
And most of that flying was not as a flightleader.
(19:45):
It was usually as a wingman and I'm flying on atest sortie.
I get the brief and I can go execute and that'sfine.
It's the total opposite on the Thunderbirds.
I'm 80% of my time flying, 20 doing commandduties.
And the only way I can do that is I have anamazing officer corps.
So the Thunderbirds have 12 officers on theteam.
One through six are the demonstration pilots,and then seven through 12 is what we call the
(20:08):
glue because they're the ones that actuallyhold the team together and do all of the work
that is not necessarily related to flying butenables us to do our mission.
Seven is our director of operations.
Eight is the advanced pilot and narrator.
Nine is our flight surgeon, we actually have amedical team that keeps us all healthy.
Thunderbird 10 is our executive officer, allthe administration that you could think of that
(20:30):
comes with running a squadron.
11 is the maintenance officer, and 12 is ourpublic affairs officer.
So all of those officers have very criticalroles and teams that should keep this entire
machine running so that I can focus on theflying.
Because, really, they enable me to keep mycommand duties down to about 20% and only get
involved when I need to, which is when I needto make some major decisions and those do
(20:54):
happen or administer discipline or communicatevision or do those types of things that only I
can do.
That's one of the keys to the success on thisteam is they protect me to enable me to go lead
a safe and effective story.
It's it's amazing.
The story never changes with anywhere in themilitary.
It seems like you're only as good as everybodyelse on the team.
(21:14):
You know, you're strong as your weakest link,and that's why the the selection process is
challenging to get to be a Thunderbird nomatter where you are on the team.
Let's talk about that selection challenge.
I I thought one of the coolest parts about thedocumentary at the end was they showed the
selection of Thunderbird three.
To me, it's always been, well, I know that youcan apply, and I've had friends who've talked
about doing it.
(21:34):
How does that selection process unfold?
One time a year, we'll do a selection process.
So the team transitions about half of theofficers will swap out every year.
So effectively, it's a new team, and some ofthe pilots will switch positions.
Right?
Six becomes five, and either three or two.
Usually, it's three becomes four.
(21:54):
So we're always hiring.
And then we're always hiring a number eight.
Eight is really the only officer position thatis a three year position.
Eight after their year is eight will becomeeither three or two potentially as they're
going into the diamond or they'll go to six andthen become five the following year.
So that's kind of the dynamic that sets up whowe're looking to hire.
(22:15):
When it's time to hire, the hiring message willgo out and people will send in their
applications.
We'll go through it.
We put a spreadsheet.
Some and there isn't really a rubricnecessarily.
Some people will have their own rubrics andwill score it and will determine who we're
gonna bring out to semifinals and we'llsemifinals will identify a month of shows that
we wanna bring out the semifinalist to, andthey will come out.
(22:36):
It's very informal, but it's really anopportunity for us to get to know them and for
them to get to know the team and the missionbecause they get to see us in our natural
environment, which is being on the road.
And we get to see how that interaction happens,and then we'll convene a meeting with all the
officers and we'll get our the enlisted inputas well through the chief and and our shirt.
And then we'll pick our finalists.
And for finalists, we we bring them out toNellis.
(22:58):
That's a whole, that's a week long TDY for themwhere the pilots will go fly.
They'll do a flying evaluation.
So even if they're not at 16 pilots, they'llget their first ride in a back seat in the D
model, pulling those down trim and they'redoing loops and rolls off of me out in the
range, that's where we really get to assess,the hands.
You know?
And really, we're looking for, you know, isanybody completely unsafe doing anything that's
(23:20):
dumb daggers or different?
Okay.
Or, hey.
Golden hands, you know, if he or she has thegolden ticket.
I haven't really seen any of those in my timeon the team.
That's very, very rare to see something likethat.
But most people fall in the middle and it'sreally about how do you handle your how do you
conduct yourself during the flight?
Are you able to notice the mistakes, recognizethem and not make it a big deal and be able to
(23:41):
get back in there?
Are you fighting for position and are you doingit in a safe in a safe way?
And then after finals, so that's when we'llconvene everybody.
There's also interviews that go into that weekas well.
We get all the inputs from everybody, and theneventually, we'll make our recommendations to
the fifty seventh wing commander who's a onestar general who then continue to make the
recommendations.
And the selections are done by the commander ofair combat command, four star general.
(24:04):
So you're talking a lot of visibility on this,but a lot goes into it to ensure that we're
picking the right people.
And I tell my teammates, even for our enlistedfolks, there's a couple things.
One is selecting your replacement is the mostimportant thing you do on this time on this
team.
Besides doing a safe and effectivedemonstration.
Okay.
That's a given.
That's our mission.
But, you know, selecting your replacement issomething that should be on the forefront of
(24:27):
your mind as soon as you realize you're gonnabe on this team.
Who do you trust enough to replace you to takethis team to the next level?
I want the next team to be better than thisteam and I want that to continue out through
history and that's what I want everybody'sattitude to be when they're taking this role.
That's awesome.
I love to hear that kind of thing.
That kind of leads me in that.
So excuse me.
I mean, I could talk about this kind of stufffor a while, but I know that a lot of people
(24:49):
wanna hear about, like, behind the show stuff,the stuff they hear, the stuff they see.
And one of the coolest things so my wife, mykids, I love it still to this day.
I've always loved the radio chatter.
I mean, it's what drew me right away inaviation.
I remember coming up initial, it was look good.
Coming up initial, sound cool on the radios,and everything else is gravy.
Right?
Well, you guys you guys have always soundedcool on the radios.
(25:10):
It speaking of like that, the cadence, it's gota reason.
Why why do you do that?
Yeah.
It's really hard to well, habits.
Right?
And expectations and really building that habitpattern that can't be broken so that no matter
where we're at if you think about it, we'reflying in all these different a lot of people
(25:31):
don't understand when they just go to theMilwaukee show, go, oh, the Thunderbirds are
here.
We were just came from a show site and we'regoing to a show site after we do Milwaukee, but
wherever we are at and when we're preparing forthat, we are a 100% in on that show site.
Milwaukee, I remember has these 3,000 foottowers that are about almost two mile and a
half to two miles back left that are right onmy line that when we break out for the low
(25:53):
bombers, if I just flew straight and flew mynormal line, I would die.
I would crash right into those towers.
And I actually had to climb quite a bit to getup and over and then I gotta get back down on
my airspeed, of course, and heading in altitudeto be exactly so we cross at the same point in
space, same time with only 50 foot stacks aswe're all coming from four different
directions.
So that's that's that's no small task and theway we mitigate that is by trying to keep
(26:18):
everything the exact same.
So we just beat in that cadence during trainingseason over and over and you know, I could sing
it in my sleep and that's that's one of thosethings that we talked to earlier that was so
difficult.
It's like memorizing a play, and I'm not athespian by any stretch of the imagination,
but, it's you know, if you're in, like, a kidand you did a play, it's like, what's my line?
(26:38):
You can't go line.
Yeah.
You can't go 500 knots, 200 feet above theground, you know, point on the line.
What do I say?
Pull up again.
You just have to have that rote memorization.
And it's funny too.
You get this point in the season.
They can tell the difference betweenmicroseconds.
If I have a hesitation or a hiccup in mycadence, they can tell on the intonation even
(26:58):
if it's on timing if the note is different.
They know something's up.
Like boss might not like this or he's trying todo something else.
And those are all cues to the wingman becausewhen you're flying as close as we do, they
can't rely on their sight alone.
It's too close.
So the cadence and I'll give you an example.
So when I go, I'm gonna turn left.
So left turn is the command.
(27:19):
The t in turn is when everybody initiates leftstick input so we all turn together as opposed
to you see me you see me turn a little bit andthen they catch up.
So in order to get this, they have to be goingon that cadence, left turn, we're all going the
same direction, and then they're using theireyeballs to refine that.
So I I call it the course movement is they goon the that when they're supposed to on my
(27:42):
cadence, and then they're fine or fine is usingtheir eyeballs, and they're making those very
fine corrections so that to the audience, itall just looks like a very everyone's doing the
exact same thing at the exact same time.
Wow.
That and knowing my little bit of formation inthe t 37, I it was always lead goes and then
you kind of follow and they tuck in there.
You're not doing it all at the same time.
That's not what it looks like when you're firststarting out, especially when you're sixty
(28:06):
hours in a twin engine jet from 1955.
The so talking about the radio stuff, do do thesolos talk to each other while they're out
there bombing around?
So are you hearing them too?
Absolutely.
I am.
The wingman will have them turned down, sowe'll do split volume.
So, we have a UHF and a VHF, and we'll splitwho's talking on on which radio.
But I'll have my diamond formation turned upand I'll have the solos turned down a little
(28:30):
bit.
So when I hear a a slightly weaker calm, I'llknow that's a soloist talking.
So they're constantly talking to each other.
They're telling them the lead soloist tellingwhen to hack, when to turn on the smoke, right,
when the hits happening so they know when to dotheir either knife edge or go from inverted to
inverted on their hits.
So everybody's talking to each other and it'sall coordinated.
My comm is coordinated with them as well.
(28:51):
So I know when they're setting up for a shortmaneuver, I should be in this part of the show.
So it's, you know, it's more than just metalking to my wingman.
It's also a choreographed timing piece thatreally helps it helps this entire show work so
that it operates the way it should be, which isyou should see the diamond solos, diamond
solos, and then and then you get us to, youknow, do the hits, and we come together all at
(29:15):
the right time so that the shows are veryconsistent throughout, the season.
They look great.
Like I said, I was talking before we started.
I got to see you guys last year.
I got see she fly with the team last year overMilwaukee 2024.
The best Thunderbird show I've ever seen.
It was a great show.
I had so much fun.
It was great to be there with a friend of oursas well and just see it from the eyes of and
all the family members being there too.
(29:36):
Was was so cool for me.
Speaking of that, we know how challengingfamily life can be for the military, but
there's also that sense of culture that'sbehind every squadron.
And obviously you're a very different squadronthan anywhere else in the world.
What is that culture like behind the show, thescenes that we don't get to see that family
life both with the families of the team membersbut also the family that is the 130 plus
(30:01):
members of the Thunderbirds?
The families bear the brunt of honestly the thetough parts about this team, and that's
something I talk about upfront with people thatare applying and when we get into our first one
on ones is you have to prepare your family forthe rigors of this job.
And it's tough in any military job because yougo, you deploy or you're you're a TDY on
(30:22):
temporary duty, quite often, but that that isour mission.
Right?
So we're gone quite a bit and it always seemsto be the case.
I'm sure you can relate.
As soon as you leave, that's when thedishwasher breaks or the car breaks down or
whatever the kids get sick or and that is verytrue on this team as well.
So how do we mitigate that?
We mitigate that with a really good familyenvironment.
So that was one thing that was important to methat we are as family friendly as we can be.
(30:46):
So in this squadron, we don't have any vaults.
There's no off really off limits areas.
So I say when we're home, bring your familiesout, have have them come out and have lunch,
you know, like we should be seeing we got kidsrunning up and down the hallways all day, which
is very different from a lot of other militarysquadrons that you've been in.
But I think that's important to incorporate thefamilies.
A lot of the families will also come out on theroad with us when they can.
(31:09):
And you mentioned air shows doing things tomake it as family friendly as possible,
especially for the little kids.
And my wife had a great idea of making a toybag.
So one of the bags we throw on the pallet nowis just this duffel bag that's got all kinds of
toys in it, dinosaurs and puzzle pieces andblocks and all that and we bring it to show
center to the friends and family tent and wedon't usually go on.
(31:32):
We usually close the show around two, three,sometimes 04:00 and by then kids are smoked,
They just wanna go home.
Don't they could care less about an air show.
But that was one of the little things that thatthat we could do.
My wife was amazing at thinking about that andbringing that out and we took that around and
and that keeps the kids engaged and happy andthey could care less about They've seen a
thousand, you know, jets flying.
(31:53):
Yeah.
Right?
Keeps the families engaged, and it keeps thatthat kind of that tight knit group that we've,
we've developed into the culture here.
Yeah.
I think, you know, the two things jumped out tothe Thunderbird day care clinic.
Totally branding opportunity right there.
Number one and number two for all of you outthere, whether you're, it doesn't matter if
you're traveling all the time, you wanna, youwanna make your spouse life a lot easier.
(32:14):
Have a go bag with toys in it no matter whereyou're going, what you're doing.
I'll tell you if the kids got to sit at theairport for five hours while your non rev
traveling to, it really helps, especially ifyour wife forgets the the most favorite toy and
you're the one who remembers it, you're thehero.
So, your wife's onto something there.
That's ingenious.
That's right.
I throw a tip too that the easy button, a lotof people have the iPad or the phone.
(32:36):
I'd recommend getting a Dahlia needs a littlebag.
I mean, there's a lot of studies showing thatthat might not be the best thing for all the
kids.
I get there's time and a place for that, but,you know, get some blocks, get some dinosaurs,
get some little action figures.
Right?
Things that we, you know, grew up with thatstimulate the imagination a little bit.
Yeah.
Fidget spinners, anything that they can messwith with their hands, they all get they'll be
into it.
At least at least and if you have enough ofthem, they can jump from what each one every
(32:58):
five minutes, and then they've got some timebefore, before it's time to the real meltdowns
happen.
I know I deal with it on the regular.
A couple, fun questions just that I wanted toknow.
Alright.
And these are kind of more quick hitters.
What's harder?
Aerial demonstration or no kidding combat?
Almost quick hitters.
Yeah.
(33:18):
Right?
Yeah.
That's a real a real banger right there.
So I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna say aerialaerial demonstration.
Just from a technical flying standpoint, thereis specifically on this team.
The the stakes are very high, for mistake.
The margins are very, very slim.
You could you make that same argument forcombat, but I think you could probably relate
(33:41):
that, you know, most of my combat time was, youknow, 90% burning holes in the sky looking at
it, named areas of interest.
Yep.
The other 10% was like, could be sheer terrorand like absolutely crazy hair on fire.
But, day in and day out, I think aerialdemonstration, this type of flying is is the
most challenging I've ever done.
Yeah.
Not and not surprised.
(34:01):
That's kinda what I was thinking.
Favorite air show moment.
I know that's tough, but maybe not a favorite.
Maybe one that sticks out that you reallyenjoy.
Yeah.
There's there's something each brief, we have agoal of, what what maneuver are you gonna try
and perfect today?
And 99% of the time, don't get it.
But it's that moment.
There was a a diamond pass interview.
(34:23):
I think it was at Tyndall last year.
And it's usually over the water because it'snice and smooth.
When you just absolutely grease a maneuver andyou you nail it and you get the perfect optic,
that is pretty special.
But I'd I'd have to say one of my favorite onesas well was when we nailed the Super Bowl
flyover.
That was very early on last year and was veryconcerned because I maybe had been on the team
(34:46):
for, like, a couple months flying and leadingand we're doing our training season.
That was a big deal and it was a hometown, LasVegas.
You know, Reba was a pro.
She nailed the timing.
You know flyovers are very contingent on thesinger.
We get that, but absolutely nailed it.
So that was a lot of fun too.
I got a I got a good Flyover story, but we'llsave that for another time where we did not
nail it, but think
Did not really.
(35:07):
Yeah.
Hey.
The roof the roof was closed and nobody knew.
It worked out for us.
They had a camera on us.
It looked good, but no, we did not nail it atall.
You guys have an awesome playlist.
Right?
Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, demo teams all havethese great playlists.
When
you're walking out to the jet, what's thewhat's the playlist going on your head?
What's that lead song getting you amped
up to go out there?
(35:27):
Yeah.
I'm usually thinking about what I'm supposed tobe doing.
Like, left foot, right foot, left foot, orwhich foot?
No.
Right foot.
No.
What was it?
Which one was next, though?
So I I'm usually, honestly, listening to themusic that we have playing, which is it's
something like this.
It's not this, but the Star Wars death, youknow, star of Vader death.
Ciao.
Yeah.
There
(35:48):
you go.
Hey.
That's perfect.
We're bringing we're coming.
Yeah.
And the well, and when the boss walks out tothe Imperial March, it it puts everybody in in
line.
They're
Yeah.
Right.
Everyone.
Yep.
Ships up a little bit.
Lock up just a little bit.
Gets a little tighter down there.
Alright.
Best thing about Wichita Falls that youremember.
Oh.
So we had the, we bought this short bus fromthe class before us and we painted with the
(36:14):
they had run the engine out of oil.
So we said we would buy it from them andreplace the motor.
So during our week or so before we're doing ouracademics, had we one of my my classmates was a
mechanical engineer.
Just a genius.
He was a genius when it came to anythingmechanical.
He rebuilt we rebuilt the engineer his, youknow, grease monkeys and or fixing it, and he
was the the leader of that.
(36:35):
So we rebuilt the engine.
Then we got t 38 paint, actual mil spec t 38paint like a t 38, put the tail flashes on
there, and driving around in the short bus,Wichita Falls going out for a a Friday or
Saturday night.
I believe in the O club, that I'll neverforget.
That was some great memories.
So that those are those are fantastic.
I a couple of those.
You say something like that pops in my head,little things here and there.
(36:56):
Some can be shared.
Others are very internal to the class.
I think I I would be remiss if I didn't ask thequestion that I think you probably get asked
the most.
The friend friendly rivalry between the navyblue angels and you guys.
We know you operate together and all that kindof stuff.
I don't I get that.
How much fun is it though when you actually getto work together with them?
(37:18):
There was the flyover of New York where youwhere you're all formed up.
I mean, those are special moments.
We don't get to see those as as just a regularviewing audience very often.
But how much fun is it for you guys when youget to actually go work with your your rivals,
from the Navy?
It's incredible.
And you said it perfectly.
Yeah.
We're it's a friendly rivalry.
(37:38):
I I I call a sibling rivalry.
Sure.
Right?
We both have very similar, if not the samemissions and just doing with different
airplanes, but the same quality of people.
They're all absolutely they're great people,professionals through and through.
And it's an honor when we get to go to ElCentro and they host us.
They go to El Centro for their entire wintertraining.
We go there for our last week and a half, getour FAA certification prior to our our, our
(38:02):
full certification from our air forceleadership.
But it's super cool.
We get to exchange rides, exchange bestpractices, and we even did this year.
We reinitiated a exchange program where weactually sent a few of our troops.
They sent us a couple of theirs, and we learneda lot.
We learned a lot from from them, and I I hopethey learned a lot from us because that's the
goal.
(38:22):
We're always trying to make this better.
That's what we should be should be doing.
And we'll always give each other grief in avery friendly way but it's it's an incredible
experience and it's really surreal as kind ofan air show nerd and a, you know, fighter jet
nerd that you get to go hang out with, youknow, the the other team and see how they do
business.
Well, man.
I I owe your team a debt of gratitude.
(38:44):
I kept you over a couple minutes.
Last part parting thoughts for those out therewho, you know, maybe this is in their future,
they're young and coming up or people who arejust a huge fan like I am, know, fanboy.
I get to kind of live vicariously through, youguys a little bit, just being part of that air
show circuit and dreaming of what it could havebeen.
Those parting thoughts out there for those ofus who had the dream or who have the dream
(39:06):
right now and want to be in your shoes one day?
Yeah, for those that have the dream or have thebug, you gotta start.
Gotta start somewhere.
I started flying Cessna 152s in high schoolbecause I was sitting next to a girl in physics
class that was telling me about how she had hersolo ride the day before.
And I was like, what do mean?
You're flying airplanes?
And that was it.
(39:27):
I asked my mom for a discovery flight.
She got that present for my birthday and Ithought she could get the flying bug out of my
system.
I came back with grinning ear to ear.
She goes, Oh boy, have created a monster.
And that's exactly what happened.
So that's my advice for those that areinspired.
You got to start and only you can do that.
So start doing some research.
There's plenty of information out thereespecially in this day and age.
(39:48):
Go to your local FBO.
Go to your local small town airport.
There's probably a flight school.
Go get a discovery flight.
See if flying is something that's in your bloodand something that that you wanna pursue and
do.
There are a lot of people that have that samebug that can't fly for whatever reason, medical
or finances.
There's plenty of other ways to get involved.
So go talk to a recruiter, you know, whetherit's air force or military or not even
(40:08):
military, something that you wanna you wanna dosomething meaningful and purposeful, go find a
way to serve.
Go away to find a way to serve your community,your country and contribute, in that way.
And for those that can't do either, come outand see us at a show.
And if you haven't seen a Thunderbird show in afew years, it's been a while, come back and see
us at a show.
Our our show show schedule is on our website.
(40:30):
You can look at that.
It's AF Thunderbirds.
You can follow us on Instagram, Facebook, thosetypes of things and get the information that
way.
We love to see you out there and we'd love to,talk to you and hopefully, give you some of
that inspiration.
Yeah.
We'll post all that stuff.
Sheikh, thanks again.
I really appreciate it.
This has been awesome.
I have about a thousand more questions that Ididn't even get to and that's fine.
And if anybody else's questions out there, hitme at heyguys@thepilotnetwork.com.
(40:54):
I'll forward them on to Sheik and the team.
They'll come back.
I'll report back on on anything that you guyswanna know about.
This is a great group of people having workedwith them just a little bit and and seeing
where the air force is going and with thepeople like Sheik and others on the
Thunderbirds and knowing that the hands outthere are careful ones and ones that are humble
and very credible and also beyond approachable.
(41:16):
I thank you very much for the time again,Sheik.
This was awesome.
Keep that shiny side up, greasy side down, flysafe.
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