January 8, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode, Adam connects with John 'RAIN' Waters to discuss his aviation journey and the Afterburn podcast. They explore Rain's transition from military to civilian life, highlighting the importance of sharing personal stories and the human side of military aviators. They share memorable interviews and humorous flying stories, delving into the challenges of podcast editing and the significance of networking. The episode wraps up with reflections on early missions, lessons learned, and future collaborations. It's a good ole' squadron BS sesh!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:17):
Welcome to another episode of the Pilot Networkpodcast.
It's Adam again.
Today, I'm excited to introduce an incredibleguest, my newfound friend, John Rain Waters.
Rain is a retired Air Force f 16 pilot,instructor, demo team commander, and he's also
the creator of the Afterburn podcast, which I'msure many of you already listen to.
With a remarkable career spanning deployments,combat missions, all the leadership roles we
(00:41):
did in the military, Rain then transitioned tocivilian life and found a new way to stay
connected to the aviation world throughstorytelling.
On the Afterburn podcast, Rain captures theuntold stories of military aviators,
highlighting their struggles, achievements, andpersonal triumphs throughout their career.
It's more than just a podcast, really.
It's a tribute to the resilience, bravery, andhumanity of those who serve.
(01:05):
From thrilling combat missions to life changinglessons, Rain's show brings listeners a front
row seat to the fascinating world of militaryaviation.
In today's episode, we talk about Rain'saviation journey from his first flight on
September 10, 2001 to becoming an f 16 pilotand the lessons learned along the way.
We dive deep into the creation of the Afternoonpodcast, the importance of sharing these
(01:28):
stories amongst other aviators, and how he'scontinuing to build connections and inspire the
next generation of aviators.
Speaking of building connections, John was oneof the original or thereabouts members of the
pilot network Facebook group.
So we kinda have a longer lineage than weoriginally thought, which really brought the
podcast together.
If you wanna hear more amazing stories like theones that we discussed today, be sure to check
(01:50):
out the Afterburn podcast.
You can find it at the afterburn podcast.com orsearch for it on your favorite podcast
platform.
Trust me.
You don't wanna miss any more of his content.
Make sure you like, subscribe, and hit thatlittle notification bell or whatever they say
on YouTube.
So instead of me talking anymore, let's getdown to the conversation with Rain.
I hope you enjoy.
(02:11):
Altitude.
Altitude.
Pull up.
Pull up.
Possum.
Possum.
Warning.
Warning.
Bingo.
Bingo.
Walk.
Walk.
Tap, flare, tap, flare.
Out.
Tap, flare.
Low.
Jammer.
Jammer.
(02:34):
That was a special one for all you Viperdrivers out there.
John, what's up, man?
Dude, it's about time we got
I mean, I we're joking beforehand before westarted.
This for me, this is the longest coordinationeffort I've had in my in my book.
So, you know, there's a gold star or somethingthere for us.
Yeah.
It's the new standard set.
Probably going on over a year.
We when neither of us will let this happenagain, we're probably gonna make this hopefully
(02:57):
a little bit more regular because we weretalking before, John, and you guys heard in the
intro, John Waters, from the Afterburn podcast.
We have so many overlaps.
Right?
Like, the there's there's people from thefighter community who are part of TPN.
There's people who are not part of the fightercommunity, who are part of TPN who listen to
(03:18):
you.
There's people who've never heard of TPN who'vebeen listening to the AppBurn podcast since its
inception.
And the the amount of cross flow that we canget in in in the digital space, but also
starting to bring those analog meetups backwhere I like, we we say at TPN, let's bring the
squad and bar outside of the squadron because,well, I'm gone.
Like, I don't have a squad and bar to go toanymore, and it'd be nice to meet up with
(03:41):
people who are like minded.
How did you how did you get to where you're at?
Let's start with the aviation journey and thenbecause that's losing the podcast.
Right?
Like, we all started
Right.
Yeah.
Wait a minute.
Yeah.
With the joke right, I couldn't spell podcast acouple years ago, but, obviously, it took
there's a lot happening before we got to thispodcasting piece.
Random sidebar for your role too.
We gotta revisit, like, when you started TPNbecause I think I mean, I was, like, early on
(04:03):
under the Facebook group.
Like so that was pivotal to where I'm today.
So, no.
I actually had my my first flight was September10, 2001, believe it or not.
And a little Cessna 172 or 152.
I had a friend whose dad wanted to teach hisson to fly and wanted to teach him to fly with
someone.
Right?
So we both got our PPLs.
His dad was CFI.
(04:25):
Delta guy took us through.
Very fortunate, very, you know, right place,right time.
Very lucky to have someone looking out for me.
Great parents who kinda, like, push me downthis path.
I said, push, like, hey.
Open the door.
Hey.
You might be interested in doing that.
So, I started down the road of learning to fly.
The next day, obviously, was September 11th.
That was a big catalyst where, you know, highschool kid trying to figure out, like, what I
(04:46):
wanna do in life.
But when 9:11 happened, I was like, I reallycan feel compelled to serve.
Still want to fly.
Right?
And I was already kind of working my way downthis path, but that definitely solidified, hey.
I wanna go serve my country.
And if I can fly, it's the best of both worlds.
So everything I kinda did, it was focusedsolely on getting an ROTC scholarship or going
(05:08):
to the Air Force Academy.
I actually started the Air Force Academyapplication, and then I was like, you know
what?
I don't think I really wanna do this.
You know, maybe it worked out.
Maybe it wouldn't.
I probably wouldn't have gotten selectedanyways, but I ended up going to Georgia Tech.
Did ROTC 4 years there after I graduated, outof ROTC.
I've said I had a pilot slot.
I spent a year and almost a year and a halfdown at Moody Air Force Base in Southern
(05:30):
Georgia as a casual lieutenant.
I was, like, one of the last guys to do thecasual status, and I was with the 41st rescue
squadron down there.
So h h sixties exposed to the combat search andrescue world.
A tens moved down to Moody while I was there.
And, man, I was like, dude, I wanna do combatsearch and rescue.
Right?
Like, it's the first thing I was really exposedto, but it's such an awesome mission set.
(05:50):
I thought and and still do think it's a verynoble mission set.
Very appreciative of it.
God forbid if you ever needed it.
But it's been a year and a half down there,went off the pilot training.
And, man, I wanna go fly a tens.
I wanna go fly h eight sixties.
I wanna do combat search and rescue.
You know, doing the whole year of pilottraining, you had a lot of influences.
I was fortunate enough to go t 30 eights inthat time period.
(06:11):
And, again, I wanted a 10.
So my first choice out of pilot training was atens and then fate.
Because if I didn't get an a 10, I wantedanother chance to get an a 10 after it.
In that time, I wasn't good enough.
You're right.
So they, they kept me around to to be a firsttime instructor pilot.
And in that time period at Columbus, I deployedto an MC 12, so the king air 350, and that's
(06:33):
where I was really to a lot of f 16 pilots, andit was the right time because my dream sheet
was due for my FAPE days.
Came an f 16, pilot out of that.
Spent, almost 6 years at Shaw Air Force Baseflying f sixteens.
1 kinda combat ops assignment and then oneassignment is f 16 demo pilot and commander.
So traveling around the world doing that,jumped out of the air force active duty into a
(06:56):
reserve nonflying job and now flying big oldfat planes all around the world hauling hauling
cargo from place to place.
So, it's a nutshell.
Yeah.
I wanna I wanna back up here because, there'ssomething so, you know, we talk intersections,
right, and and Venn diagrams.
Well, the Venn diagram, the overlap from yourpilot training days and my pilot training days
(07:18):
are kinda similar.
For some reason, I had a, fascination withrescue the rescue world as well.
Not hell I didn't wanna go helicopters, but Ireally wanted to do rescue, and I had I had no
exposure to it.
None.
I was casual at so you had casual moody, whichis a giant step up.
Doesn't sound like it, but a giant step up fromcasual status is the answer for space.
(07:42):
So for those of you who listen to the pot orfor those of you who don't understand what
casual status means, it sounds, exactly what itis.
You show up after you commission to a base or alocation, and they don't really have a actual
job for you specifically.
Like, you don't have a billet or a AFSC thatyou're filling.
(08:03):
You essentially show up and they give you theleftover stuff to do that's hanging around the
squadron, whatever squadron you're assigned to.
Most pilots get assigned to a flying squadronso you can go and get exposure from that.
I'm we both know people who had deals to,Europe, the Pacific, Hawaii, all the all the
(08:24):
parts.
And, I got the beauty and I got and I chosethis.
I chose Vance Air Force Base because I wantedto go and be with my buddies and study and
whatever, which I didn't do any of thatstudying stuff, and that's why I yeah.
Hard charger who ended up in a tanker becauseof work ethic, drive, and level low.
(08:45):
So, but I I for some reason, I was I was reallyfascinated with the rescue world, and I think
it was because of an a little brief moment Ihad when I was in ROTC.
I got to meet a bunch of PJs, and I thoughtthey were pretty cool dudes.
And I thought the mission, like you said, nobleand very, just very different than anything
(09:05):
else that the rest of the air force did.
The rest of the air force's whole mission is togo blow stuff up.
And these guys, their job was to go, save savelives.
And that for some reason, it really spoke tome, maybe because I was never gonna be a doctor
or anything like that.
And then h, the h c 130, the king, I believe,came to the drop after I requested it, but I
(09:29):
didn't finish high enough in the 3 the 3, basepecking order.
So Columbus Laughlin and Vance.
I was, like, right in the middle of our pack,which was slightly below the guy who wanted it
at another base, and there was, like, aconference call or something.
And, he got it because he was slightly higherthan me, like and it was their turn to get it,
(09:51):
that that base.
So I was devastated, end up in the k c 135.
But, you know, it's funny.
I think you were alluding to that all thesethings are all good.
There's a reason that this stuff happenswhether or not you know why it is or it and it
could be because you sucked at pilot traininglike I did and and put forth the effort to do
better.
(10:12):
But the reality is is had that none of thathappened, I don't end up where I'm at now, and
I definitely don't end up with, and I would'vehad great friends all throughout, but my life,
would be so, unequivocally different.
I I'm I'm actually living in my hometown,having gotten to fly k c 130 fives at my home.
(10:34):
Right?
Like, if I don't fly tankers, I probably don'tever look at that as an option until it's far
too late.
So, I I I consider myself very lucky to havegotten in the tanker even though I was a mess.
I actually cried for bad reasons the night Igot that.
There might have been a little bit of alcoholinvolved there too, but I was very, very sad.
(10:54):
And, I'm so glad that I that guy got that guywised up and learned what he was doing.
So so you go and you you get into this world ofnow you're flying big, fat airplanes.
You're sitting in the, on the sidelines in thereserves, not, you know, getting a chomp of the
bit and be the mighty tip of the spear anymore.
And, you you start getting how did the podcastcome about?
(11:16):
Were you chomping it?
Were you, like, missing just the
world or what part?
Because it's such a I mean, it is a bigtransition.
And I I told my buddies who got out after me,and I think people told me beforehand.
Right?
But getting out of active duty that year or soleading up to it, wherever you decide you're
doing it, like, for me, it was reallychallenging.
That's probably the most challenging, you know,year lead up to as well as getting into the
(11:39):
major airlines because there's so much change.
And then also you're doing it more or lesssolo, like, while your buddies are now in text
change, everyone's scattered into the wind.
Very different than being in the squadronwhere, you know, you walk in every day.
I mean, things are happening.
It's moving.
It's just a very different environment.
So for me now, I'm like, I've I've gone out onterminal leave.
(12:00):
I'm out on a run, and I'm thinking like, man,what am I gonna do?
Like, obviously, I need to go make a paycheck,which is gonna be flying for the airlines.
I don't think I'm gonna be super fulfilled fora lack of better phrase.
But I was also thinking, like, man, you know, Ihave the opportunity to meet some just awesome
people who all have incredible stories andjourneys and things that have happened to them
(12:22):
that I think are beneficial.
I like listening to podcasts.
I I just found podcast.
Like, maybe I could start a podcast and then,like, capture these stories of, like, their
journeys and things that happen, a way of,like, capturing history and hopefully letting
their stories hit other ears and eyeballs thatmight help someone else out.
So I started researching it.
(12:42):
Right?
And then I felt I recorded all audio only.
Right?
We started this audio only.
Now it's all audio and visual, which is, like,another just element of pain.
But I recorded my first one at a kitchen tableat my in law's house with a crappy USB mic with
my buddy Loco who's a raptor squadroncommander, and it was my first episode.
I did I never released it.
It was so bad that we're gonna do a or justjustice to Loco.
(13:04):
Like, Like, dude, I gotta rerecord this at somepoint, but now he's doing important things.
Not that he wasn't before.
So it it for me, it was a way to kinda stillstay connected.
I think do something positively.
So I feel like it's positive because,hopefully, it is helping, you know, young
people figure something out or there's a tidbitin here.
Like, I think the point of, like, finding like,you landed in the right spot.
(13:26):
Like, would I go back and change anything?
I mean, I maybe, but everything I did, themistakes, the things I learned, like, it landed
me into this spot, and I'm really happy andcontent with where I am today.
Now I'm sure there are people out there who'slike, I'm not really happy, but in this moment,
that might be the scar that's developing that10 years down the road helps you out with
(13:48):
whatever you're doing because it taught you alesson.
It made you stronger, perseverance, whatever itmight be.
So you just don't know in that moment.
And, I mean, it's kind of a it's a ramblingthere, but I think, you know, the podcast I
mean, it's just it is it's unique.
I I really enjoy talking to people and hearingstories, and we we said it before, hit record.
Like, either some episodes or people you'relike, man, this is gonna be just a home run.
(14:11):
In other words, like, this is gonna be a dud.
And then something comes out of that one,you're like, wow.
Or, you know, I'll get that's when I'll get,like, 10, 15 messages on because there's some
little tidbit that that person said thatresonates with people.
So we got that's pretty cool and rewarding, Ithink.
Yeah.
I think I couldn't agree with you more of therewarding piece, and it it keeps you connected
(14:33):
to the, the place we're at.
One of the things that I I so, when I was akid, yeah, I I really wanted to be a f 16 pilot
specifically for some it was just the airplanespoke to me.
Thank you, Doug.
I inspiration for so many.
I was I was an iron eagle kid, not a, not a topgun kid, which is bizarre, but maybe I just
(14:55):
like b movies.
I think the, the thing though that the reason Ibring that up is when I was a kid, and I got to
go to Luke because my grandfather was retiredmilitary, not air force, guy at at all, just
really wanted to expose me to airplanes.
I would see these guys who now I think are,like, would be I'd look at them as children
(15:17):
walking around, and I'd see them in their intheir flight suits and their bags, and I I'm
like, oh my gosh.
They're superheroes.
Like, I didn't understand that they had astory.
Like and they're normal normal people.
I didn't understand that, as a child.
And now is it do you do you think of that whenyou're recording and when you're bringing these
(15:38):
guests on that you're actually bringing thishuman story?
Because, yeah, we get it.
Other pilots, we know the background story.
We know who we all are.
But but there's somebody out there who'slistening to the the podcast.
He goes, I I like, the backstory, these peopleare all perfect.
They, you know, they all got 4 point o's inschool.
They're superheroes.
They perfected PT scores.
(15:59):
All everything was great.
And you're exposing that the the the real sideof what people consider a superhero.
I mean, athletes have been doing this for awhile now with social media.
This is a little different, when you're openingup kind of a a vulnerable, place for a war
fighter to go.
(16:19):
Like, it's it's different than an athlete.
These are these are yeah.
In my opinion.
So you're opening up that vulnerability for awar fighter in their backstory.
Does that ever come into play when you startedthinking about this idea of, like, even
yourself?
I mean, you're getting on a microphone andgiving up, some of that the, like, the the
shield that we have.
Yeah.
That's a really good point because it'd besuper easy not, I mean, not doing this
(16:40):
altogether just to start with.
Right?
And then you have the anonymity.
You just have the image of what, you know,yeah, people seeing in the flight suit or in
the uniform, whatever it might be.
And I think when you have a guest who has like,for me, the ones that, honestly, that I get the
most feedback on, it's usually it's a medicalrelated thing.
Someone who's gone through a medical struggleor, yeah, either a hurdle with school or they,
(17:05):
you know, it wasn't good grades and they, youknow, they they pivoted.
They reversed course with their grades andbecame a good student to get where they are.
They worked hard.
I just had a, Malibu on.
He's a he's a guard helicopter pilot, and hetalks about you know?
And then he goes, he was doing racing out ofout of high school.
Right?
(17:26):
Big into racing, and he's like, yeah.
At some point, you know, I thought gettingknuckle tattoos was a good idea.
Like, that's the path I wanted to go.
It turns out that is not what you wanna do ifyou wanna go into the United States military.
And, you know, hearing him open up about thosevulnerabilities, I think that's something that
resonates with people because everyone has mademistakes.
(17:46):
And, you know, if you usually, you can overcomethem depending on what they are as long as it's
not like a felony or something.
But, Yeah.
Right.
Or or drug use if we're talking about themilitary.
So hearing those types of stories, because evenfor me, you're like, man, it's like you're
hearing a real human being, someone who's hasdealt with things, and then they were able to
persevere and overcome something, you know,especially if they're sitting on the other end
(18:09):
of the microphone because they're telling theirtheir story as a professional military aviator
or whatever it might be.
So do you think that's pretty cool?
I'm sure I mean, you probably got a couple goodstories, I would imagine, out of people for
sure.
They're they're wild ones.
I mean, even just I'd look back and, you know,I I guess toot my own horn.
Like, people go, your story is crazy becauseyou you should never have been here.
(18:31):
And I'm like, not for medical purpose, but thatwhole lack of drive effort and work ethic.
Yeah.
I mean, I I I found out I was graduating highschool 3 days before our graduation.
And, my parents my dad thought I would I my daddidn't think I could get a job at Miller
Brewing where he was working when I graduatedhigh school because of how bad I performed.
(18:52):
And they paid for me to go to private school,which they didn't have the money for.
So I he still jokes.
He's like, so when is the check coming?
And he goes, they call the airline money now.
And I go, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I go, I bought you a bike.
Okay.
Calm down.
But, yeah.
And, I and, I was gonna ask you too.
I'll ask you in a second here, but since youyou threw the question back at me, one of my
(19:14):
favorite stories or favorite interviews I everdid was with a guy named Val Michtoff.
Now believe me, I've enjoyed a lot of my theguests have come on here.
But Val is a essentially, a private pilot.
I mean, I think he I think he might have his,like, commercial or multi engine at least, but,
he, he started genius guy started the largestproducer of or the 3rd largest producer in the
(19:40):
United States of the, battery charging forcars, and he sold that company.
And then he created 0 Avia, which, we did thisinterview maybe 2 years ago now.
And 0 Avia has got, I don't know, somethinglike a 150 orders already, and it's growing.
And they're building a jet engine, based onhydrogen fuel cell technology.
And I'm talking to this guy, and he's a wizard.
(20:03):
He talks about his discussion with Elon Musk,how it is called hydrogen fools cell, and he
was his, assistant was like, I don't know ifVal wanna talk about that.
And then he's like, no.
Yeah.
Let's do it.
I'd love to talk about it.
He goes, I know Elon, and he's like, he's gothis opinion.
I got mine.
And I so fascinating story.
Right?
Like, we didn't get into the background beforeall of this, aside from the fact that he's from
(20:27):
I think he's I can't remember where he's fromin the eastern block.
Like, he came over here, and he built thiscompany, sold it to build another giant company
because he truly believes in it, and it'saviation related.
You know, fast.
Just truly fascinating.
And then I just did one with Tammy Barlett nottoo long ago who, flew the a ten and had,
(20:50):
medical issues that resulted in her not beingable to fly a Jackson seat aircraft anymore.
And then just some of her her the capacity ofher moving on to starting a business, using the
stuff that we've learned and becoming a mentalperformance coach.
Stuff like that, fascinating.
Like, what what about you?
Some some real special favorite episodes.
(21:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Metal moo.
Knuckle tattoos.
So I just, like, started rereleasing a coupleepisodes from Soup Campbell.
So he, yeah, retired a 10 pound.
Right?
He's talking about his opening days ofAfghanistan.
Right?
Like, they were classified location, launchingout, supporting Roberts Ridge.
They didn't know it was Roberts Ridge at thetime.
Right?
So he's talking through all this.
(21:32):
And then I did not know this when we recordedit.
It talked about recovering the a tens toPakistan.
Like, you remember, like, flying aroundAfghanistan.
Like, you crawl like, if your wingtip crossedinto Pakistan, like, you were standing in front
of the CFAC the next day.
So this, obviously, the opening day isdifferent different time period.
But, 3 distinguished flying crosses in thatperiod.
So hearing all that, hearing the recovery toPakistan, San, which is, like, mind blowing to
(21:54):
me because I had never heard that story.
And then having my a ten buddies who listen topodcast who grew up as Sup, the legend, and
they're like, I only heard the wave tops ofSup's, you know, the highlights of his career
here and there, like the murmurings to thesquadron.
I never knew any of that.
So, that one for me and, again, I've had a lotof that I mean, phenomenal guests from I mean,
(22:18):
just from admiral Fox, like, hearing his MiGshoot down and how he almost shot down a MiG
29, but, you know, it's like one one regret.
He shot down the MiG 21, but not MiG 29 thatday.
It's just wild stuff that I never thought Iwould I would hear or talk to people about,
which is pretty cool.
And then, yeah, it just started it, you know,it starts with, like, your close network.
(22:39):
Right?
Asking your buddies to come on the podcast,which I still got a lot of buddies I'd love to
have on the podcast.
Now I kinda hold them in reserve.
Like, I I'm setting up where I can do in personinterviews down here.
So, like, figure I'll start with my buddiesbecause that's, like, the easy arm to twist.
But, then he gets like, oh, yeah.
You need to talk to so and so.
I got an episode that's gonna already come out.
So this is a funny one.
(23:01):
Flash McVeigh also, buddy of mine, he cohosts acouple episodes.
He hosts episodes on his own here, but he'scool story.
A 10 f 16 f 35.
So I'm I do all the editing for the podcaststill.
I need to find the editor as we're kind ofalluding to at the beginning.
But I'm editing his episode he recordedrecently.
He just released on Friday with Seamus, FlatsFlatly, f 14 pilots.
(23:23):
I'm listening to as I'm editing, and he'stalking about his wingman ejecting over Iraq.
Well, like, a month and a half ago, which isgonna release here coming up, is with Vinny.
Vinny was the wingman that ejected over Iraq.
Right?
This was, like, 2, like, unrelate like, he wascoordinating his stuff.
I was coordinating my stuff.
(23:43):
And, you know, my connection was, like, throughsoup.
His connection was through another buddy.
And we just so landed, like, literally as I'mediting this, like, this is the this is the
formation we're talking about here.
And these you know, again, not connected at allwhen we talk about recording the podcast.
So, again, it's just it's cool stuff.
One other cool story I I had, social media.
So Dave Lorenzo, he was an f 8 pilot duringVietnam.
(24:06):
Met him down at the Pensacola Naval Air StationMuseum.
He he volunteers down there, former Delta guy.
He eject he got shot down over Vietnam, made itacross the border, ejected, and got picked up.
It's it's an incredible story of just wildwildness.
But fast forward, like, a year later, I get asocial media message, and someone's like, hey.
I I was out golfing, and I found a navalacademy class ring, I think, from 1964.
(24:31):
I think that was the year.
And I think it's Dave Lorenzo's.
Do you have his contact info?
So I send this guy an email back, and I emailedDave.
I'm like, hey.
I think someone found your class ring.
Turns out it was Dave's class ring that hadbeen missing for decades.
And this guy found it on a golf course.
So you're like yeah.
Stewart.
Aids?
(24:51):
I thought he just found it like it fell off hishand.
Yeah.
They expired.
So That's wild to I mean, if anything else.
Right?
Like, alright.
At least the connection was made for that outof doing all this podcasting stuff.
Oh, yeah.
What you said there with talking aboutconnections and realizations and I mean, the
(25:12):
Poly Network's like, that's a thing.
Where that's real wild.
I there's a there was a guy I knew, in backwhen I was at MacDill in the reserves.
We played softball together just for a coupleof games.
And he had to go and back to, like he hadyounger family at the time and was moving
through the ranks of of that lifestyle, and I Iwas not there yet, a single guy.
(25:33):
So fast forward, TP Nexus last year.
And, I'm standing there, and I I I recognizeand he's like, Adam, you wanna go dude, what
are you what are you doing here?
And he said, oh, yeah.
I'm just, I'm up.
I was I'm doing I did a thing.
I'm about to get ready to retire.
I'm looking to get hired at x y z major.
(25:55):
I don't even remember which one he said.
We you know, we're we're hanging out.
He goes, what what are you doing here?
And I go, oh, you know, this is, theconference.
And he goes, wait.
The pilot network is yours?
Like, you started it?
And I said, yeah.
Like, 12 years ago, man.
I think you're I think you're one of theoriginal guys in the group.
He goes, well, not I don't know because I Idon't think I had Facebook back then.
He goes, I don't really remember.
(26:15):
And I go, well, maybe not, but, whatever.
And I said, you really?
Yeah.
Like, he goes, yeah.
He goes, I just kinda searched conferences andyours came up.
So I I'm up here.
And I said, so you you never listen to thepodcast or anything?
And I go, we're we're friends.
This is one of the few times this has happened.
He goes, I you have a podcast?
Like, you have all I go, yeah.
And I go, and I'm not trying to sound like, oh,I have a podcast.
(26:38):
I was just like, I've known you for 15 years,and you didn't know any he goes, I had no
earthly idea that that was the case.
So we had, you know, a few beers and chattedchat about about all that stuff.
But when you start having these kinda, like,more weird connections or I mean, that one's
(26:58):
really wild.
But you have people who meet or see each otheror they somebody claims that you're the reason
that this happened because of the of the linkbrought together.
It's it's so cool.
It's really fun to to bring the to bring thoseworlds and join them up.
You know, in fact, now, like, afterwards, I'vegot a couple buddies that you said, hey.
(27:20):
You got them sitting in reserve.
I have friends who I'll happily put over toyou.
I in fact, I'm I'm probably gonna have him on,the pilot network podcast.
He one of my college roommates.
But he, he I think he'd fit perfectly as aguest on you.
Now I'll let you be the judge of that, but hisI don't even wanna share his backstory with the
crowd yet because it's it's he flew his entirecareer, and then he he, retired.
(27:44):
So which which is ridiculous.
So he I've he he's also a ridiculous guy.
So I'd I'd love him to death, but also, he wasthe guy who was always better than me and
everything, so I was always kinda jealous ofbut I've got 8 years of seniority.
That's, yeah, that's the long game.
You know?
That's what you don't realize.
The Yeah.
Oh, I got Which which it could be that's apretty big thing.
(28:09):
Yeah.
Right?
So let you get you get to this unfulfillingpost, which, by the way, I joke about that
because I think, you have to make the airlinelife what you have to make of it.
And some guys, it's an it's an all encompassingthing.
They they get really involved.
They work for the union.
They work, for the company.
(28:30):
They do they get into training.
They're that that's a very big piece of theirlife, and they don't make up their identity,
but that's really where they get theirfulfillment from.
And then there's other guys, and gals who arejust like, I work and I go home, and that's all
I do.
And then some of those people that I see onboth sides is, the identity gets swallowed up
by something or the identity goes away and theystart to feel, I don't know, left out.
(28:54):
So you'd get this job at the airline and you'regoing, like, I I did this podcast a long time
ago about, like, what's next?
Was that kinda where you fell into that intothis role of, like, now what do I do?
I mean, you're still doing the reserves.
And the reserve for me, it's it's it'sdefinitely a lot different pace than what I was
doing in active duty.
Right?
(29:15):
You know, and, like, I had three and a halfmonths of terminal leave.
In in that time period, that's when I decidedto do this.
And then I started actually, my first episode,I dropped the day I did my LOE.
I was doing training.
Right?
So I was going through it.
I recorded I I, yeah, I recorded 1.
It was terrible.
Loco will record it again, and then I recorded,the next one with my buddy who again grew up
(29:40):
near me, a 10 pilot, Tyler Schultz,distinguished flying cross.
And I edit that.
You know, I mean, I got it.
It took me forever to edit.
I was learning Adobe audition, all these thingswhile I was, you know, studying the triple 7
and, you know, sitting sitting in my crash pad,editing it.
Yeah.
Always fun.
Yeah.
Everyone everyone's favorite.
Yep.
So, I mean, I guess I was kinda fortunate thatI figured it out.
(30:03):
I didn't take me, you know, while I was intoflying the line or starting to fly the line.
I started it in between, but I was already Imean, I was already in that space, right, of,
like, kinda what's next.
What's the next purpose?
I think you you that's a really good point.
If, if I wasn't doing this, like, maybe I wouldbe, I don't know, volunteering with the union
(30:24):
or trying to get into the schoolhouse to train,or I I would I'm the type of, like, I'd have to
be doing something else.
Like, I do I enjoy it.
Pennsylvania fly with.
Right?
But we got a lot of really good guys that I'veflown with.
There might be out of the, you know, 1,000 guysI've flown with.
There's, like, 10.
You're like, I'm definitely not gonna meet youfor dinner.
(30:46):
And then maybe there's another, like, 10.
You're like, definitely not gonna go meet youfor dinner, but everyone else, like, man, I go
have a beer with you and hang out.
They got cool stories.
So you sit there and you talk, have goodconversation.
I do enjoy that aspect of it.
But outside of that, I mean, it's like you'regetting paid for your time away from home.
It's a different it's a different mentality.
Right?
It's no longer coming from the military,especially mission oriented.
(31:07):
Right?
Get the job done.
Like, there's there's a level of urgency andimportance with everything you do, or at least
there should be.
Now it's just like, dude, I gotta go point a topoint b, and I gotta do it safely.
And, ideally, I do it on time.
Yeah.
Mhmm.
Ideally.
But but there's there is a caveat to all that,safety primary, but the other thing is is I
(31:33):
would back this up a second here.
Getting paid from your time away from home isthe critical piece.
I I wish more people understood, that when theyfirst go into the airline world that you are no
longer getting paid to prosecute a mission.
You're getting paid to be away from homebecause when if you call in sick, if if there's
(31:57):
a delay where you fatigue out or the theycancel the flight and they're gonna post it 12
hours later, there is somebody right behindthem who's gonna pick it up.
And either it's gonna be a reserve, or it'sgonna be somebody who's getting a premium
paycheck out of the deal or extra pay orwhatever.
So, slow your role when it comes to thatthought process.
(32:19):
I'm not saying don't be mission oriented.
You can still do that within the context ofwhatever you're doing.
Be helpful to the passengers.
Be, you know, be be a great steward for yourcompany.
But, the whole idea of I mean, we both done it.
I I did it even in the tanker.
Took off when probably it was a 5050 kind ofthe proposition.
(32:42):
And, and and now you don't necessarily have todo that.
So we're talking about stories, and you'retelling a lot of stories about other people.
So can you give us one from your viper days?
Well, we're gonna turn the turn the tip on you.
And, honestly, forget viper.
Let's just talk, your days of of flying in theUnited States Air Force, FAPE, MC 12, f 16,
(33:02):
whatever you wanna pick.
Let's pick one story, preferably from, thatthat's got some humor to it.
Some Yeah.
Oh, god.
I got plenty of stories.
I don't know if so I'll I'll tell 2 I'll do 2quick ones because I know we're gonna bump up
against time here.
The first one from the fake date.
Right?
This is kind of a humorous one, which it'sactually not my story.
(33:24):
It's it's a flight line story, but it's in thesquadron.
So this is about the importance ofcommunication.
So you have foreign students going throughtraining.
English is not their primary language.
And in the t six pattern, there's a lot ofprocedures they have to know, and there's right
of ways and who has priorities.
Well, at some point, if you don't havepriority, you might be forced to break out of
the pattern, climbing up, potentiallydescending and scooting out of the pattern and
(33:48):
reentering the pattern.
So I had a buddy who, he had a foreign student.
And I got I mean, I got a lot of foreignstudent stories, I guess.
If you had someone who's never driven a car andthen all of a sudden they're flying a high
foreign's plane, like, fence in, this is gonnabe fun when you do their dollar ride.
But, my buddy, they're they're coming upinitial, and the instructor, there's a
conflict, and they don't have right away.
(34:09):
So the instructor tells them to break out.
Nothing happens.
Tells them to break out.
Nothing happens.
Structure takes a plane, executes the breakoutprocedure, goes to reenter the pattern.
Get the debrief like, hey.
Why didn't you break out?
He goes, we didn't say it three times.
For those who don't know, bail out, bail out,bail out.
You say that 3 times on the 3rd bail out, outout you go.
(34:29):
So you just never know.
Again, it's important that you establish acommon, common picture and you're operating on
the same same wavelength there.
But I will tell this story.
This is for me in f 16 days.
Right?
I think this is a there are people listening toAfternoon podcasts have have probably heard
this.
I like telling it because it goes back to,like, no one there's never a perfect story.
(34:50):
There's never a perfect mission, and I thinkit's important for people to have this reminder
as they go forward.
Right?
So there there I was f 16.
You know, at this point in my career, Iprobably have, you know, 2 1000 hours or so.
I've flown in Afghanistan.
We're on a deployment in the Middle East.
(35:10):
And that deployment, I'm probably on combatsortie number 40.
We got 4 deployed to Djibouti to a differentspot right from where we were.
It had been a really busy deployment.
I've been flying all night, so I'm verycomfortable at night.
Although I say never be comfortable at night,many comfortable night, slap yourself.
But I still sorry.
Still respect to the night aspect.
So we're sitting alert.
(35:31):
We scramble.
We pretty heavy jets, as far as 4 4, 500 poundbombs.
We got missiles, targeting pod, external fueltanks, harm targeting system pod.
So jets pretty heavy.
Right?
We scramble on this launch.
Again, the emphasis item here is, like, I'mpretty experienced at this point, and I'm
pretty comfortable.
(35:52):
We we scramble, we launch, we blast out overthe water, and immediately get canceled on this
alert launch.
So now we're out over the water, and we got allthis gas, and we're like, well, you know what?
Why don't we do a couple dive glide attacks onboats down in the water?
Rob's not gonna drop bombs.
We're gonna just do some practice dive glideattacks.
(36:12):
So we each roll in for one pass.
Chaos is my flight lead, and I roll at he rollsin 1st, then I roll in, and then after we both
roll in, we're like, this is dumb.
We can't the stars and the boats all look thesame.
Just imagine a black hole for those who haven'tseen it, black hole, and then you got little
white lights everywhere and everything looksthe same.
So, like, hey.
Let's knock this off.
(36:33):
Let's just do a couple 3 sixties andafterburners, burn down some gas so we can head
back and go land.
So we do that.
We're coming back.
I think probably weighing or probably, like, 71000, £8,000 of gas in f 16, which is a decent
amount of gas in f 16.
Come back.
I'm landing 2nd.
We're doing a radar trail approach touchdown.
And for those who are not familiar with themost military airfields, you have, you know,
(36:57):
your one runway or 2 runways, but each runwayhas a parallel taxiway.
And the end of runway, the last taxiway, theEOR, especially for fighters, that's where you
arm and dearm.
They usually correspond with the end of therunway, right, or at least the piano keys,
etcetera.
So as I touch down, it's night.
I'm looking out and I see the perpendiculartaxiway lights, and I'm like, there's no way
(37:22):
I'm gonna be able to stop this jet.
Like, I'm it's the water is next.
I'm like, I'm gonna put this jet into thewater.
Right?
So I get you know, I'm arrow breaking, put thenose down on the brakes, max breaking effort,
and I make the taxiway.
Right?
But I I was really aggressive on the brakes.
And the block 50 has really good brakes, butit's heavy jet, lots of gas, lots of bombs.
(37:43):
Do I smoke the brakes?
I turn and, like, I hear that you know, justlike the feeling of the tires have popped.
I've never blown a tire in my career at thispoint.
Taxi clear.
So I had 2,000 more feet of runway remaining.
Had I done an airfield diagram study day 1, Iwould have known that the last taxiway was
(38:04):
about 15 100, 2000 feet prior to end therunway.
So this runway, you could go all the way then.
You gotta back taxi on the runway.
Not a big deal.
But, yeah.
So never be complacent.
Never think you got everything dialed in.
The minute you do, that's when you're gonnastart making mistakes.
Fortunately for me, it was some blown tires andthe ego, and I was able to recover from that.
But, I mean, you know, quickly that could'vegone sideways.
(38:26):
And that's the thing is you you never can becomfortable in aviation, I think.
What a great thought for people to be left on.
I or, John, we gotta have you back and and havemore stories like that.
And and for those of you who need, stories thatgo from everything from a lesson learned to,
truly heroic, aviation stories from, from,well, the last sounds like 40 years or or more.
(38:54):
Go visit at and I I've never I've never usedyour call sign today.
We didn't get in the call sign story.
It's, which John Rain Waters.
If you you wanna find that, I'm sure it'ssomewhere in piece together throughout
How it how it happened.
And when everyone always asks, like, dude, ifyou wanna tell us your call sign and what it
means, the freight from the get go, they'relying to you.
(39:15):
So
Yep.
I've I've, because in the tanker, we don't docall signs as much, but sometimes you you get
one, or somebody gets one because it's just
Yeah.
It's impossible not to give them that.
Somebody says something that sticks.
For instance, there's a guy in my formersquadron.
(39:35):
We I I think I it was me or somebody.
I think it was actually me.
I I will take credit for that.
Called them peaches one day.
Just For no reason.
There there there and it just stuck, and he'sbeen peaches forever.
There was a guy in my last squadron who foranother reason, we called him Jack, and, it was
(39:57):
so bad, that the Wing Commander thought hisreal name was Jack.
And on his name tag, it did not say that.
It said Mike.
And, she asked.
She's like, hey.
Is Jack around?
And, like, no.
And she goes, oh, Jack.
And then, I think somebody might ask, like, doyou know his real name is Mike?
And she's like, what?
Awesome.
She had no clue.
(40:17):
So, yeah, that that's really that was amazing.
But, go and listen to the podcast.
The stories are phenomenal.
The guests are great.
John does a great job, so does the rest of theteam.
And then how else can they reach you, find you,reach out?
I mean, who knows?
There might be somebody listening to this who'slike, hey.
I I'd like to give you more content because thestories that you get are plentiful, and there's
(40:39):
so many aspects to each one of these thatcreate and a lot of great storytelling is done.
Obviously, you just nailed 2 quick ones.
But when you can do a long form and and pullthis the story out and ask the right questions,
it truly is like listening to an audiobook, inshort format to hear these great aviators going
through these sometimes extreme situations andbeing delivered podcast.
(41:02):
So how can people reach out to you directly?
And Is it so so afrompodcast.com, I have acontact that sends an email to me or
rainwaters27 on Instagram.
You know?
I'm on there as well.
I don't know if I'm always in my comments or mymessages or things like that, but email is the
fastest way.
That's rain at theafterburnpodcast.com ifyou're too lazy to go to
(41:23):
theafterburnpodcast.com.
You know?
So, yeah, choose choose your own adventure.
Never Yeah.
Never know there.
Right?
Well, thanks, dude.
I so much appreciate you being here.
It was lots of fun.
I think we should do this again.
Maybe not.
We could we could figure out the schedulingpiece, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And and share a couple more stories and bring,just bring that aspect that we don't do because
(41:45):
we don't do a lot of that, on the on the pilotnetwork podcast.
We talk about the background story, but wedon't get into little individual, vignettes
that are really interesting and make aviationso fascinating to those who don't get to
participate like you did, or, I mean, to alesser extent, flying the tanker, but I've got
some stories that are pretty fascinating, whenyou think about it from a different aspect of,
(42:08):
like, what we saw and being, you know, super
I mean, I got a lot of tanker stories of savingthe day.
I mean, I also got a lot of tanker stories offinding the one cloud in in the sky.
You know?
Just it's a it's a mix.
Oh, yeah.
Dude, I almost, I still say, it'd be my 4th, aquick one here.
My 4th combat or my 4th combat sortie ever.
(42:30):
Some 4th deployed sortie ever.
5th, mission ready sortie in the tanker.
I guess it was 6 because it took 2 to fly overthere.
We flew through a thunderstorm that, wasentirely my fault because I didn't know how to
use the radar yet to actually That's awesome.
I was using ground map mode.
No clue was doing.
But the reality was is when we went back andfound out how big the storm was, it was from
(42:52):
4,000 feet up to 48,000 feet from Iran to SaudiArabia.
So there was no going around it.
It was we're going through it.
And we, we 2 Vipers had to fly through itbehind us.
I don't know where they were coming out of,but, anyways, they we met them up in the area.
And, I can't remember if it's lead or Waynecame up and he goes, I have no idea if I'm
upside down right now or not.
(43:13):
We're like, well, we're not, so you're good.
Just.
Stay on us.
And, yeah.
And then we we got him out in a clear, mean,the the weather went for quite a while ways up
in Iraq.
Took him out, got him on the wing, got him insome clear air, and, they we hit another
pocket.
And dude was on the wing.
(43:33):
Rolt got as tight as he could, and I I stillswear to this day that we we had a little tip
touching, that there was a a paint trade.
Because it did not feel like regularturbulence, and the second he got that
happened, he popped out and was gone.
Like, straight up in the air.
He's like, I'm out of here, dude.
It was they went lost wingman with each otherand They met up.
(43:55):
They climbed up.
They went to the top of, their block, met up.
And then right after that, we get back into theclear.
They come get gas again.
They're on, Wing was on us.
Lead's kinda hanging out, and he's like, hey.
We can't reach this ax man.
Can you guys try to get him?
Because, we're gonna go down a little lower.
They go down.
We pick up ax man on 1.
(44:16):
Still can't.
We hear them.
And then all of a sudden, he's like, stand byeverybody on the radio.
We're dragging bodies.
They they drop down and start doing yoyo ops.
And, back then in 0 4, ROE wasn't great.
They saw the guys, but they couldn't shoot athim.
So they were just doing, some show of force,which was actually not even authorized.
And by the time they got authorized for aweapons release, the fight was over.
(44:39):
We lost a couple guys on the ground.
And that was, like, my intro to that.
It was really it sucked.
It hurt to, like, be so it felt like you wereuseless because you you guys were going and at
least able to scare them off or try to.
Those guys were shooting on the ground, and I'msitting here just, like, orbiting.
And it sucked.
(44:59):
Right?
But I felt like that's my job now.
That's what I I'm there to facilitate makingthese other things happen.
And I realized that it's kind of been my wholecareer.
Like, that that's what TPN does.
That's what, I do as a dad.
I'm facilitating these other people to go betheir their best and and go, accomplish the
mission.
Sometimes the mission gets done, and sometimeswe're unable to complete it.
(45:22):
But to be there and be the support structurefor that is really cool.
So there there's the big tanker story.
That's the tank tanker takeaway for the day.
But, again, man, thanks for coming on.
I I can't wait to, hear more and see what youguys are doing.
And, hopefully, we'll see, the Afterburnpodcast.
Yeah.
At least 1 guy come up and, Yeah.
It's a it's a whole calendar.
A couple beers with their awesome, dude.
(45:44):
Thanks again.
And, always, as, everybody out there, so go, gocheck it out, the afterburn podcast.com or, you
know, type it in Google.
And if you got questions for us, hit Matt or Iup, hey, guys, at the pilot network dot com.
As always, keep the shiny side up, the greasyside down.
Fly safe,
(46:12):
everybody.
Welcome to another episode of the Pilot Networkpodcast.
It's Adam again.
Today, I'm excited to introduce an incredibleguest, my newfound friend, John Rain Waters.
Rain is a retired Air Force f 16 pilot,instructor, demo team commander, and he's also
the creator of the Afterburn podcast, which I'msure many of you already listen to.
With a remarkable career spanning deployments,combat missions, all the leadership roles we
(00:41):
did in the military, Rain then transitioned tocivilian life and found a new way to stay
connected to the aviation world throughstorytelling.
On the Afterburn podcast, Rain captures theuntold stories of military aviators,
highlighting their struggles, achievements, andpersonal triumphs throughout their career.
It's more than just a podcast, really.
It's a tribute to the resilience, bravery, andhumanity of those who serve.
(01:05):
From thrilling combat missions to life changinglessons, Rain's show brings listeners a front
row seat to the fascinating world of militaryaviation.
In today's episode, we talk about Rain'saviation journey from his first flight on
September 10, 2001 to becoming an f 16 pilotand the lessons learned along the way.
We dive deep into the creation of the Afternoonpodcast, the importance of sharing these
(01:28):
stories amongst other aviators, and how he'scontinuing to build connections and inspire the
next generation of aviators.
Speaking of building connections, John was oneof the original or thereabouts members of the
pilot network Facebook group.
So we kinda have a longer lineage than weoriginally thought, which really brought the
podcast together.
If you wanna hear more amazing stories like theones that we discussed today, be sure to check
(01:50):
out the Afterburn podcast.
You can find it at the afterburn podcast.com orsearch for it on your favorite podcast
platform.
Trust me.
You don't wanna miss any more of his content.
Make sure you like, subscribe, and hit thatlittle notification bell or whatever they say
on YouTube.
So instead of me talking anymore, let's getdown to the conversation with Rain.
I hope you enjoy.
(02:11):
Altitude.
Altitude.
Pull up.
Pull up.
Possum.
Possum.
Warning.
Warning.
Bingo.
Bingo.
Walk.
Walk.
Tap, flare, tap, flare.
Out.
Tap, flare.
Low.
Jammer.
Jammer.
(02:34):
That was a special one for all you Viperdrivers out there.
John, what's up, man?
Dude, it's about time we got
I mean, I we're joking beforehand before westarted.
This for me, this is the longest coordinationeffort I've had in my in my book.
So, you know, there's a gold star or somethingthere for us.
Yeah.
It's the new standard set.
Probably going on over a year.
We when neither of us will let this happenagain, we're probably gonna make this hopefully
(02:57):
a little bit more regular because we weretalking before, John, and you guys heard in the
intro, John Waters, from the Afterburn podcast.
We have so many overlaps.
Right?
Like, the there's there's people from thefighter community who are part of TPN.
There's people who are not part of the fightercommunity, who are part of TPN who listen to
(03:18):
you.
There's people who've never heard of TPN who'vebeen listening to the AppBurn podcast since its
inception.
And the the amount of cross flow that we canget in in in the digital space, but also
starting to bring those analog meetups backwhere I like, we we say at TPN, let's bring the
squad and bar outside of the squadron because,well, I'm gone.
Like, I don't have a squad and bar to go toanymore, and it'd be nice to meet up with
(03:41):
people who are like minded.
How did you how did you get to where you're at?
Let's start with the aviation journey and thenbecause that's losing the podcast.
Right?
Like, we all started
Right.
Yeah.
Wait a minute.
Yeah.
With the joke right, I couldn't spell podcast acouple years ago, but, obviously, it took
there's a lot happening before we got to thispodcasting piece.
Random sidebar for your role too.
We gotta revisit, like, when you started TPNbecause I think I mean, I was, like, early on
(04:03):
under the Facebook group.
Like so that was pivotal to where I'm today.
So, no.
I actually had my my first flight was September10, 2001, believe it or not.
And a little Cessna 172 or 152.
I had a friend whose dad wanted to teach hisson to fly and wanted to teach him to fly with
someone.
Right?
So we both got our PPLs.
His dad was CFI.
(04:25):
Delta guy took us through.
Very fortunate, very, you know, right place,right time.
Very lucky to have someone looking out for me.
Great parents who kinda, like, push me downthis path.
I said, push, like, hey.
Open the door.
Hey.
You might be interested in doing that.
So, I started down the road of learning to fly.
The next day, obviously, was September 11th.
That was a big catalyst where, you know, highschool kid trying to figure out, like, what I
(04:46):
wanna do in life.
But when 9:11 happened, I was like, I reallycan feel compelled to serve.
Still want to fly.
Right?
And I was already kind of working my way downthis path, but that definitely solidified, hey.
I wanna go serve my country.
And if I can fly, it's the best of both worlds.
So everything I kinda did, it was focusedsolely on getting an ROTC scholarship or going
(05:08):
to the Air Force Academy.
I actually started the Air Force Academyapplication, and then I was like, you know
what?
I don't think I really wanna do this.
You know, maybe it worked out.
Maybe it wouldn't.
I probably wouldn't have gotten selectedanyways, but I ended up going to Georgia Tech.
Did ROTC 4 years there after I graduated, outof ROTC.
I've said I had a pilot slot.
I spent a year and almost a year and a halfdown at Moody Air Force Base in Southern
(05:30):
Georgia as a casual lieutenant.
I was, like, one of the last guys to do thecasual status, and I was with the 41st rescue
squadron down there.
So h h sixties exposed to the combat search andrescue world.
A tens moved down to Moody while I was there.
And, man, I was like, dude, I wanna do combatsearch and rescue.
Right?
Like, it's the first thing I was really exposedto, but it's such an awesome mission set.
(05:50):
I thought and and still do think it's a verynoble mission set.
Very appreciative of it.
God forbid if you ever needed it.
But it's been a year and a half down there,went off the pilot training.
And, man, I wanna go fly a tens.
I wanna go fly h eight sixties.
I wanna do combat search and rescue.
You know, doing the whole year of pilottraining, you had a lot of influences.
I was fortunate enough to go t 30 eights inthat time period.
(06:11):
And, again, I wanted a 10.
So my first choice out of pilot training was atens and then fate.
Because if I didn't get an a 10, I wantedanother chance to get an a 10 after it.
In that time, I wasn't good enough.
You're right.
So they, they kept me around to to be a firsttime instructor pilot.
And in that time period at Columbus, I deployedto an MC 12, so the king air 350, and that's
(06:33):
where I was really to a lot of f 16 pilots, andit was the right time because my dream sheet
was due for my FAPE days.
Came an f 16, pilot out of that.
Spent, almost 6 years at Shaw Air Force Baseflying f sixteens.
1 kinda combat ops assignment and then oneassignment is f 16 demo pilot and commander.
So traveling around the world doing that,jumped out of the air force active duty into a
(06:56):
reserve nonflying job and now flying big oldfat planes all around the world hauling hauling
cargo from place to place.
So, it's a nutshell.
Yeah.
I wanna I wanna back up here because, there'ssomething so, you know, we talk intersections,
right, and and Venn diagrams.
Well, the Venn diagram, the overlap from yourpilot training days and my pilot training days
(07:18):
are kinda similar.
For some reason, I had a, fascination withrescue the rescue world as well.
Not hell I didn't wanna go helicopters, but Ireally wanted to do rescue, and I had I had no
exposure to it.
None.
I was casual at so you had casual moody, whichis a giant step up.
Doesn't sound like it, but a giant step up fromcasual status is the answer for space.
(07:42):
So for those of you who listen to the pot orfor those of you who don't understand what
casual status means, it sounds, exactly what itis.
You show up after you commission to a base or alocation, and they don't really have a actual
job for you specifically.
Like, you don't have a billet or a AFSC thatyou're filling.
(08:03):
You essentially show up and they give you theleftover stuff to do that's hanging around the
squadron, whatever squadron you're assigned to.
Most pilots get assigned to a flying squadronso you can go and get exposure from that.
I'm we both know people who had deals to,Europe, the Pacific, Hawaii, all the all the
(08:24):
parts.
And, I got the beauty and I got and I chosethis.
I chose Vance Air Force Base because I wantedto go and be with my buddies and study and
whatever, which I didn't do any of thatstudying stuff, and that's why I yeah.
Hard charger who ended up in a tanker becauseof work ethic, drive, and level low.
(08:45):
So, but I I for some reason, I was I was reallyfascinated with the rescue world, and I think
it was because of an a little brief moment Ihad when I was in ROTC.
I got to meet a bunch of PJs, and I thoughtthey were pretty cool dudes.
And I thought the mission, like you said, nobleand very, just very different than anything
(09:05):
else that the rest of the air force did.
The rest of the air force's whole mission is togo blow stuff up.
And these guys, their job was to go, save savelives.
And that for some reason, it really spoke tome, maybe because I was never gonna be a doctor
or anything like that.
And then h, the h c 130, the king, I believe,came to the drop after I requested it, but I
(09:29):
didn't finish high enough in the 3 the 3, basepecking order.
So Columbus Laughlin and Vance.
I was, like, right in the middle of our pack,which was slightly below the guy who wanted it
at another base, and there was, like, aconference call or something.
And, he got it because he was slightly higherthan me, like and it was their turn to get it,
(09:51):
that that base.
So I was devastated, end up in the k c 135.
But, you know, it's funny.
I think you were alluding to that all thesethings are all good.
There's a reason that this stuff happenswhether or not you know why it is or it and it
could be because you sucked at pilot traininglike I did and and put forth the effort to do
better.
(10:12):
But the reality is is had that none of thathappened, I don't end up where I'm at now, and
I definitely don't end up with, and I would'vehad great friends all throughout, but my life,
would be so, unequivocally different.
I I'm I'm actually living in my hometown,having gotten to fly k c 130 fives at my home.
(10:34):
Right?
Like, if I don't fly tankers, I probably don'tever look at that as an option until it's far
too late.
So, I I I consider myself very lucky to havegotten in the tanker even though I was a mess.
I actually cried for bad reasons the night Igot that.
There might have been a little bit of alcoholinvolved there too, but I was very, very sad.
(10:54):
And, I'm so glad that I that guy got that guywised up and learned what he was doing.
So so you go and you you get into this world ofnow you're flying big, fat airplanes.
You're sitting in the, on the sidelines in thereserves, not, you know, getting a chomp of the
bit and be the mighty tip of the spear anymore.
And, you you start getting how did the podcastcome about?
(11:16):
Were you chomping it?
Were you, like, missing just the
world or what part?
Because it's such a I mean, it is a bigtransition.
And I I told my buddies who got out after me,and I think people told me beforehand.
Right?
But getting out of active duty that year or soleading up to it, wherever you decide you're
doing it, like, for me, it was reallychallenging.
That's probably the most challenging, you know,year lead up to as well as getting into the
(11:39):
major airlines because there's so much change.
And then also you're doing it more or lesssolo, like, while your buddies are now in text
change, everyone's scattered into the wind.
Very different than being in the squadronwhere, you know, you walk in every day.
I mean, things are happening.
It's moving.
It's just a very different environment.
So for me now, I'm like, I've I've gone out onterminal leave.
(12:00):
I'm out on a run, and I'm thinking like, man,what am I gonna do?
Like, obviously, I need to go make a paycheck,which is gonna be flying for the airlines.
I don't think I'm gonna be super fulfilled fora lack of better phrase.
But I was also thinking, like, man, you know, Ihave the opportunity to meet some just awesome
people who all have incredible stories andjourneys and things that have happened to them
(12:22):
that I think are beneficial.
I like listening to podcasts.
I I just found podcast.
Like, maybe I could start a podcast and then,like, capture these stories of, like, their
journeys and things that happen, a way of,like, capturing history and hopefully letting
their stories hit other ears and eyeballs thatmight help someone else out.
So I started researching it.
(12:42):
Right?
And then I felt I recorded all audio only.
Right?
We started this audio only.
Now it's all audio and visual, which is, like,another just element of pain.
But I recorded my first one at a kitchen tableat my in law's house with a crappy USB mic with
my buddy Loco who's a raptor squadroncommander, and it was my first episode.
I did I never released it.
It was so bad that we're gonna do a or justjustice to Loco.
(13:04):
Like, Like, dude, I gotta rerecord this at somepoint, but now he's doing important things.
Not that he wasn't before.
So it it for me, it was a way to kinda stillstay connected.
I think do something positively.
So I feel like it's positive because,hopefully, it is helping, you know, young
people figure something out or there's a tidbitin here.
Like, I think the point of, like, finding like,you landed in the right spot.
(13:26):
Like, would I go back and change anything?
I mean, I maybe, but everything I did, themistakes, the things I learned, like, it landed
me into this spot, and I'm really happy andcontent with where I am today.
Now I'm sure there are people out there who'slike, I'm not really happy, but in this moment,
that might be the scar that's developing that10 years down the road helps you out with
(13:48):
whatever you're doing because it taught you alesson.
It made you stronger, perseverance, whatever itmight be.
So you just don't know in that moment.
And, I mean, it's kind of a it's a ramblingthere, but I think, you know, the podcast I
mean, it's just it is it's unique.
I I really enjoy talking to people and hearingstories, and we we said it before, hit record.
Like, either some episodes or people you'relike, man, this is gonna be just a home run.
(14:11):
In other words, like, this is gonna be a dud.
And then something comes out of that one,you're like, wow.
Or, you know, I'll get that's when I'll get,like, 10, 15 messages on because there's some
little tidbit that that person said thatresonates with people.
So we got that's pretty cool and rewarding, Ithink.
Yeah.
I think I couldn't agree with you more of therewarding piece, and it it keeps you connected
(14:33):
to the, the place we're at.
One of the things that I I so, when I was akid, yeah, I I really wanted to be a f 16 pilot
specifically for some it was just the airplanespoke to me.
Thank you, Doug.
I inspiration for so many.
I was I was an iron eagle kid, not a, not a topgun kid, which is bizarre, but maybe I just
(14:55):
like b movies.
I think the, the thing though that the reason Ibring that up is when I was a kid, and I got to
go to Luke because my grandfather was retiredmilitary, not air force, guy at at all, just
really wanted to expose me to airplanes.
I would see these guys who now I think are,like, would be I'd look at them as children
(15:17):
walking around, and I'd see them in their intheir flight suits and their bags, and I I'm
like, oh my gosh.
They're superheroes.
Like, I didn't understand that they had astory.
Like and they're normal normal people.
I didn't understand that, as a child.
And now is it do you do you think of that whenyou're recording and when you're bringing these
(15:38):
guests on that you're actually bringing thishuman story?
Because, yeah, we get it.
Other pilots, we know the background story.
We know who we all are.
But but there's somebody out there who'slistening to the the podcast.
He goes, I I like, the backstory, these peopleare all perfect.
They, you know, they all got 4 point o's inschool.
They're superheroes.
They perfected PT scores.
(15:59):
All everything was great.
And you're exposing that the the the real sideof what people consider a superhero.
I mean, athletes have been doing this for awhile now with social media.
This is a little different, when you're openingup kind of a a vulnerable, place for a war
fighter to go.
(16:19):
Like, it's it's different than an athlete.
These are these are yeah.
In my opinion.
So you're opening up that vulnerability for awar fighter in their backstory.
Does that ever come into play when you startedthinking about this idea of, like, even
yourself?
I mean, you're getting on a microphone andgiving up, some of that the, like, the the
shield that we have.
Yeah.
That's a really good point because it'd besuper easy not, I mean, not doing this
(16:40):
altogether just to start with.
Right?
And then you have the anonymity.
You just have the image of what, you know,yeah, people seeing in the flight suit or in
the uniform, whatever it might be.
And I think when you have a guest who has like,for me, the ones that, honestly, that I get the
most feedback on, it's usually it's a medicalrelated thing.
Someone who's gone through a medical struggleor, yeah, either a hurdle with school or they,
(17:05):
you know, it wasn't good grades and they, youknow, they they pivoted.
They reversed course with their grades andbecame a good student to get where they are.
They worked hard.
I just had a, Malibu on.
He's a he's a guard helicopter pilot, and hetalks about you know?
And then he goes, he was doing racing out ofout of high school.
Right?
(17:26):
Big into racing, and he's like, yeah.
At some point, you know, I thought gettingknuckle tattoos was a good idea.
Like, that's the path I wanted to go.
It turns out that is not what you wanna do ifyou wanna go into the United States military.
And, you know, hearing him open up about thosevulnerabilities, I think that's something that
resonates with people because everyone has mademistakes.
(17:46):
And, you know, if you usually, you can overcomethem depending on what they are as long as it's
not like a felony or something.
But, Yeah.
Right.
Or or drug use if we're talking about themilitary.
So hearing those types of stories, because evenfor me, you're like, man, it's like you're
hearing a real human being, someone who's hasdealt with things, and then they were able to
persevere and overcome something, you know,especially if they're sitting on the other end
(18:09):
of the microphone because they're telling theirtheir story as a professional military aviator
or whatever it might be.
So do you think that's pretty cool?
I'm sure I mean, you probably got a couple goodstories, I would imagine, out of people for
sure.
They're they're wild ones.
I mean, even just I'd look back and, you know,I I guess toot my own horn.
Like, people go, your story is crazy becauseyou you should never have been here.
(18:31):
And I'm like, not for medical purpose, but thatwhole lack of drive effort and work ethic.
Yeah.
I mean, I I I found out I was graduating highschool 3 days before our graduation.
And, my parents my dad thought I would I my daddidn't think I could get a job at Miller
Brewing where he was working when I graduatedhigh school because of how bad I performed.
(18:52):
And they paid for me to go to private school,which they didn't have the money for.
So I he still jokes.
He's like, so when is the check coming?
And he goes, they call the airline money now.
And I go, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I go, I bought you a bike.
Okay.
Calm down.
But, yeah.
And, I and, I was gonna ask you too.
I'll ask you in a second here, but since youyou threw the question back at me, one of my
(19:14):
favorite stories or favorite interviews I everdid was with a guy named Val Michtoff.
Now believe me, I've enjoyed a lot of my theguests have come on here.
But Val is a essentially, a private pilot.
I mean, I think he I think he might have his,like, commercial or multi engine at least, but,
he, he started genius guy started the largestproducer of or the 3rd largest producer in the
(19:40):
United States of the, battery charging forcars, and he sold that company.
And then he created 0 Avia, which, we did thisinterview maybe 2 years ago now.
And 0 Avia has got, I don't know, somethinglike a 150 orders already, and it's growing.
And they're building a jet engine, based onhydrogen fuel cell technology.
And I'm talking to this guy, and he's a wizard.
(20:03):
He talks about his discussion with Elon Musk,how it is called hydrogen fools cell, and he
was his, assistant was like, I don't know ifVal wanna talk about that.
And then he's like, no.
Yeah.
Let's do it.
I'd love to talk about it.
He goes, I know Elon, and he's like, he's gothis opinion.
I got mine.
And I so fascinating story.
Right?
Like, we didn't get into the background beforeall of this, aside from the fact that he's from
(20:27):
I think he's I can't remember where he's fromin the eastern block.
Like, he came over here, and he built thiscompany, sold it to build another giant company
because he truly believes in it, and it'saviation related.
You know, fast.
Just truly fascinating.
And then I just did one with Tammy Barlett nottoo long ago who, flew the a ten and had,
(20:50):
medical issues that resulted in her not beingable to fly a Jackson seat aircraft anymore.
And then just some of her her the capacity ofher moving on to starting a business, using the
stuff that we've learned and becoming a mentalperformance coach.
Stuff like that, fascinating.
Like, what what about you?
Some some real special favorite episodes.
(21:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Metal moo.
Knuckle tattoos.
So I just, like, started rereleasing a coupleepisodes from Soup Campbell.
So he, yeah, retired a 10 pound.
Right?
He's talking about his opening days ofAfghanistan.
Right?
Like, they were classified location, launchingout, supporting Roberts Ridge.
They didn't know it was Roberts Ridge at thetime.
Right?
So he's talking through all this.
(21:32):
And then I did not know this when we recordedit.
It talked about recovering the a tens toPakistan.
Like, you remember, like, flying aroundAfghanistan.
Like, you crawl like, if your wingtip crossedinto Pakistan, like, you were standing in front
of the CFAC the next day.
So this, obviously, the opening day isdifferent different time period.
But, 3 distinguished flying crosses in thatperiod.
So hearing all that, hearing the recovery toPakistan, San, which is, like, mind blowing to
(21:54):
me because I had never heard that story.
And then having my a ten buddies who listen topodcast who grew up as Sup, the legend, and
they're like, I only heard the wave tops ofSup's, you know, the highlights of his career
here and there, like the murmurings to thesquadron.
I never knew any of that.
So, that one for me and, again, I've had a lotof that I mean, phenomenal guests from I mean,
(22:18):
just from admiral Fox, like, hearing his MiGshoot down and how he almost shot down a MiG
29, but, you know, it's like one one regret.
He shot down the MiG 21, but not MiG 29 thatday.
It's just wild stuff that I never thought Iwould I would hear or talk to people about,
which is pretty cool.
And then, yeah, it just started it, you know,it starts with, like, your close network.
(22:39):
Right?
Asking your buddies to come on the podcast,which I still got a lot of buddies I'd love to
have on the podcast.
Now I kinda hold them in reserve.
Like, I I'm setting up where I can do in personinterviews down here.
So, like, figure I'll start with my buddiesbecause that's, like, the easy arm to twist.
But, then he gets like, oh, yeah.
You need to talk to so and so.
I got an episode that's gonna already come out.
So this is a funny one.
(23:01):
Flash McVeigh also, buddy of mine, he cohosts acouple episodes.
He hosts episodes on his own here, but he'scool story.
A 10 f 16 f 35.
So I'm I do all the editing for the podcaststill.
I need to find the editor as we're kind ofalluding to at the beginning.
But I'm editing his episode he recordedrecently.
He just released on Friday with Seamus, FlatsFlatly, f 14 pilots.
(23:23):
I'm listening to as I'm editing, and he'stalking about his wingman ejecting over Iraq.
Well, like, a month and a half ago, which isgonna release here coming up, is with Vinny.
Vinny was the wingman that ejected over Iraq.
Right?
This was, like, 2, like, unrelate like, he wascoordinating his stuff.
I was coordinating my stuff.
(23:43):
And, you know, my connection was, like, throughsoup.
His connection was through another buddy.
And we just so landed, like, literally as I'mediting this, like, this is the this is the
formation we're talking about here.
And these you know, again, not connected at allwhen we talk about recording the podcast.
So, again, it's just it's cool stuff.
One other cool story I I had, social media.
So Dave Lorenzo, he was an f 8 pilot duringVietnam.
(24:06):
Met him down at the Pensacola Naval Air StationMuseum.
He he volunteers down there, former Delta guy.
He eject he got shot down over Vietnam, made itacross the border, ejected, and got picked up.
It's it's an incredible story of just wildwildness.
But fast forward, like, a year later, I get asocial media message, and someone's like, hey.
I I was out golfing, and I found a navalacademy class ring, I think, from 1964.
(24:31):
I think that was the year.
And I think it's Dave Lorenzo's.
Do you have his contact info?
So I send this guy an email back, and I emailedDave.
I'm like, hey.
I think someone found your class ring.
Turns out it was Dave's class ring that hadbeen missing for decades.
And this guy found it on a golf course.
So you're like yeah.
Stewart.
Aids?
(24:51):
I thought he just found it like it fell off hishand.
Yeah.
They expired.
So That's wild to I mean, if anything else.
Right?
Like, alright.
At least the connection was made for that outof doing all this podcasting stuff.
Oh, yeah.
What you said there with talking aboutconnections and realizations and I mean, the
(25:12):
Poly Network's like, that's a thing.
Where that's real wild.
I there's a there was a guy I knew, in backwhen I was at MacDill in the reserves.
We played softball together just for a coupleof games.
And he had to go and back to, like he hadyounger family at the time and was moving
through the ranks of of that lifestyle, and I Iwas not there yet, a single guy.
(25:33):
So fast forward, TP Nexus last year.
And, I'm standing there, and I I I recognizeand he's like, Adam, you wanna go dude, what
are you what are you doing here?
And he said, oh, yeah.
I'm just, I'm up.
I was I'm doing I did a thing.
I'm about to get ready to retire.
I'm looking to get hired at x y z major.
(25:55):
I don't even remember which one he said.
We you know, we're we're hanging out.
He goes, what what are you doing here?
And I go, oh, you know, this is, theconference.
And he goes, wait.
The pilot network is yours?
Like, you started it?
And I said, yeah.
Like, 12 years ago, man.
I think you're I think you're one of theoriginal guys in the group.
He goes, well, not I don't know because I Idon't think I had Facebook back then.
He goes, I don't really remember.
(26:15):
And I go, well, maybe not, but, whatever.
And I said, you really?
Yeah.
Like, he goes, yeah.
He goes, I just kinda searched conferences andyours came up.
So I I'm up here.
And I said, so you you never listen to thepodcast or anything?
And I go, we're we're friends.
This is one of the few times this has happened.
He goes, I you have a podcast?
Like, you have all I go, yeah.
And I go, and I'm not trying to sound like, oh,I have a podcast.
(26:38):
I was just like, I've known you for 15 years,and you didn't know any he goes, I had no
earthly idea that that was the case.
So we had, you know, a few beers and chattedchat about about all that stuff.
But when you start having these kinda, like,more weird connections or I mean, that one's
(26:58):
really wild.
But you have people who meet or see each otheror they somebody claims that you're the reason
that this happened because of the of the linkbrought together.
It's it's so cool.
It's really fun to to bring the to bring thoseworlds and join them up.
You know, in fact, now, like, afterwards, I'vegot a couple buddies that you said, hey.
(27:20):
You got them sitting in reserve.
I have friends who I'll happily put over toyou.
I in fact, I'm I'm probably gonna have him on,the pilot network podcast.
He one of my college roommates.
But he, he I think he'd fit perfectly as aguest on you.
Now I'll let you be the judge of that, but hisI don't even wanna share his backstory with the
crowd yet because it's it's he flew his entirecareer, and then he he, retired.
(27:44):
So which which is ridiculous.
So he I've he he's also a ridiculous guy.
So I'd I'd love him to death, but also, he wasthe guy who was always better than me and
everything, so I was always kinda jealous ofbut I've got 8 years of seniority.
That's, yeah, that's the long game.
You know?
That's what you don't realize.
The Yeah.
Oh, I got Which which it could be that's apretty big thing.
(28:09):
Yeah.
Right?
So let you get you get to this unfulfillingpost, which, by the way, I joke about that
because I think, you have to make the airlinelife what you have to make of it.
And some guys, it's an it's an all encompassingthing.
They they get really involved.
They work for the union.
They work, for the company.
(28:30):
They do they get into training.
They're that that's a very big piece of theirlife, and they don't make up their identity,
but that's really where they get theirfulfillment from.
And then there's other guys, and gals who arejust like, I work and I go home, and that's all
I do.
And then some of those people that I see onboth sides is, the identity gets swallowed up
by something or the identity goes away and theystart to feel, I don't know, left out.
(28:54):
So you'd get this job at the airline and you'regoing, like, I I did this podcast a long time
ago about, like, what's next?
Was that kinda where you fell into that intothis role of, like, now what do I do?
I mean, you're still doing the reserves.
And the reserve for me, it's it's it'sdefinitely a lot different pace than what I was
doing in active duty.
Right?
(29:15):
You know, and, like, I had three and a halfmonths of terminal leave.
In in that time period, that's when I decidedto do this.
And then I started actually, my first episode,I dropped the day I did my LOE.
I was doing training.
Right?
So I was going through it.
I recorded I I, yeah, I recorded 1.
It was terrible.
Loco will record it again, and then I recorded,the next one with my buddy who again grew up
(29:40):
near me, a 10 pilot, Tyler Schultz,distinguished flying cross.
And I edit that.
You know, I mean, I got it.
It took me forever to edit.
I was learning Adobe audition, all these thingswhile I was, you know, studying the triple 7
and, you know, sitting sitting in my crash pad,editing it.
Yeah.
Always fun.
Yeah.
Everyone everyone's favorite.
Yep.
So, I mean, I guess I was kinda fortunate thatI figured it out.
(30:03):
I didn't take me, you know, while I was intoflying the line or starting to fly the line.
I started it in between, but I was already Imean, I was already in that space, right, of,
like, kinda what's next.
What's the next purpose?
I think you you that's a really good point.
If, if I wasn't doing this, like, maybe I wouldbe, I don't know, volunteering with the union
(30:24):
or trying to get into the schoolhouse to train,or I I would I'm the type of, like, I'd have to
be doing something else.
Like, I do I enjoy it.
Pennsylvania fly with.
Right?
But we got a lot of really good guys that I'veflown with.
There might be out of the, you know, 1,000 guysI've flown with.
There's, like, 10.
You're like, I'm definitely not gonna meet youfor dinner.
(30:46):
And then maybe there's another, like, 10.
You're like, definitely not gonna go meet youfor dinner, but everyone else, like, man, I go
have a beer with you and hang out.
They got cool stories.
So you sit there and you talk, have goodconversation.
I do enjoy that aspect of it.
But outside of that, I mean, it's like you'regetting paid for your time away from home.
It's a different it's a different mentality.
Right?
It's no longer coming from the military,especially mission oriented.
(31:07):
Right?
Get the job done.
Like, there's there's a level of urgency andimportance with everything you do, or at least
there should be.
Now it's just like, dude, I gotta go point a topoint b, and I gotta do it safely.
And, ideally, I do it on time.
Yeah.
Mhmm.
Ideally.
But but there's there is a caveat to all that,safety primary, but the other thing is is I
(31:33):
would back this up a second here.
Getting paid from your time away from home isthe critical piece.
I I wish more people understood, that when theyfirst go into the airline world that you are no
longer getting paid to prosecute a mission.
You're getting paid to be away from homebecause when if you call in sick, if if there's
(31:57):
a delay where you fatigue out or the theycancel the flight and they're gonna post it 12
hours later, there is somebody right behindthem who's gonna pick it up.
And either it's gonna be a reserve, or it'sgonna be somebody who's getting a premium
paycheck out of the deal or extra pay orwhatever.
So, slow your role when it comes to thatthought process.
(32:19):
I'm not saying don't be mission oriented.
You can still do that within the context ofwhatever you're doing.
Be helpful to the passengers.
Be, you know, be be a great steward for yourcompany.
But, the whole idea of I mean, we both done it.
I I did it even in the tanker.
Took off when probably it was a 5050 kind ofthe proposition.
(32:42):
And, and and now you don't necessarily have todo that.
So we're talking about stories, and you'retelling a lot of stories about other people.
So can you give us one from your viper days?
Well, we're gonna turn the turn the tip on you.
And, honestly, forget viper.
Let's just talk, your days of of flying in theUnited States Air Force, FAPE, MC 12, f 16,
(33:02):
whatever you wanna pick.
Let's pick one story, preferably from, thatthat's got some humor to it.
Some Yeah.
Oh, god.
I got plenty of stories.
I don't know if so I'll I'll tell 2 I'll do 2quick ones because I know we're gonna bump up
against time here.
The first one from the fake date.
Right?
This is kind of a humorous one, which it'sactually not my story.
(33:24):
It's it's a flight line story, but it's in thesquadron.
So this is about the importance ofcommunication.
So you have foreign students going throughtraining.
English is not their primary language.
And in the t six pattern, there's a lot ofprocedures they have to know, and there's right
of ways and who has priorities.
Well, at some point, if you don't havepriority, you might be forced to break out of
the pattern, climbing up, potentiallydescending and scooting out of the pattern and
(33:48):
reentering the pattern.
So I had a buddy who, he had a foreign student.
And I got I mean, I got a lot of foreignstudent stories, I guess.
If you had someone who's never driven a car andthen all of a sudden they're flying a high
foreign's plane, like, fence in, this is gonnabe fun when you do their dollar ride.
But, my buddy, they're they're coming upinitial, and the instructor, there's a
conflict, and they don't have right away.
(34:09):
So the instructor tells them to break out.
Nothing happens.
Tells them to break out.
Nothing happens.
Structure takes a plane, executes the breakoutprocedure, goes to reenter the pattern.
Get the debrief like, hey.
Why didn't you break out?
He goes, we didn't say it three times.
For those who don't know, bail out, bail out,bail out.
You say that 3 times on the 3rd bail out, outout you go.
(34:29):
So you just never know.
Again, it's important that you establish acommon, common picture and you're operating on
the same same wavelength there.
But I will tell this story.
This is for me in f 16 days.
Right?
I think this is a there are people listening toAfternoon podcasts have have probably heard
this.
I like telling it because it goes back to,like, no one there's never a perfect story.
(34:50):
There's never a perfect mission, and I thinkit's important for people to have this reminder
as they go forward.
Right?
So there there I was f 16.
You know, at this point in my career, Iprobably have, you know, 2 1000 hours or so.
I've flown in Afghanistan.
We're on a deployment in the Middle East.
(35:10):
And that deployment, I'm probably on combatsortie number 40.
We got 4 deployed to Djibouti to a differentspot right from where we were.
It had been a really busy deployment.
I've been flying all night, so I'm verycomfortable at night.
Although I say never be comfortable at night,many comfortable night, slap yourself.
But I still sorry.
Still respect to the night aspect.
So we're sitting alert.
(35:31):
We scramble.
We pretty heavy jets, as far as 4 4, 500 poundbombs.
We got missiles, targeting pod, external fueltanks, harm targeting system pod.
So jets pretty heavy.
Right?
We scramble on this launch.
Again, the emphasis item here is, like, I'mpretty experienced at this point, and I'm
pretty comfortable.
(35:52):
We we scramble, we launch, we blast out overthe water, and immediately get canceled on this
alert launch.
So now we're out over the water, and we got allthis gas, and we're like, well, you know what?
Why don't we do a couple dive glide attacks onboats down in the water?
Rob's not gonna drop bombs.
We're gonna just do some practice dive glideattacks.
(36:12):
So we each roll in for one pass.
Chaos is my flight lead, and I roll at he rollsin 1st, then I roll in, and then after we both
roll in, we're like, this is dumb.
We can't the stars and the boats all look thesame.
Just imagine a black hole for those who haven'tseen it, black hole, and then you got little
white lights everywhere and everything looksthe same.
So, like, hey.
Let's knock this off.
(36:33):
Let's just do a couple 3 sixties andafterburners, burn down some gas so we can head
back and go land.
So we do that.
We're coming back.
I think probably weighing or probably, like, 71000, £8,000 of gas in f 16, which is a decent
amount of gas in f 16.
Come back.
I'm landing 2nd.
We're doing a radar trail approach touchdown.
And for those who are not familiar with themost military airfields, you have, you know,
(36:57):
your one runway or 2 runways, but each runwayhas a parallel taxiway.
And the end of runway, the last taxiway, theEOR, especially for fighters, that's where you
arm and dearm.
They usually correspond with the end of therunway, right, or at least the piano keys,
etcetera.
So as I touch down, it's night.
I'm looking out and I see the perpendiculartaxiway lights, and I'm like, there's no way
(37:22):
I'm gonna be able to stop this jet.
Like, I'm it's the water is next.
I'm like, I'm gonna put this jet into thewater.
Right?
So I get you know, I'm arrow breaking, put thenose down on the brakes, max breaking effort,
and I make the taxiway.
Right?
But I I was really aggressive on the brakes.
And the block 50 has really good brakes, butit's heavy jet, lots of gas, lots of bombs.
(37:43):
Do I smoke the brakes?
I turn and, like, I hear that you know, justlike the feeling of the tires have popped.
I've never blown a tire in my career at thispoint.
Taxi clear.
So I had 2,000 more feet of runway remaining.
Had I done an airfield diagram study day 1, Iwould have known that the last taxiway was
(38:04):
about 15 100, 2000 feet prior to end therunway.
So this runway, you could go all the way then.
You gotta back taxi on the runway.
Not a big deal.
But, yeah.
So never be complacent.
Never think you got everything dialed in.
The minute you do, that's when you're gonnastart making mistakes.
Fortunately for me, it was some blown tires andthe ego, and I was able to recover from that.
But, I mean, you know, quickly that could'vegone sideways.
(38:26):
And that's the thing is you you never can becomfortable in aviation, I think.
What a great thought for people to be left on.
I or, John, we gotta have you back and and havemore stories like that.
And and for those of you who need, stories thatgo from everything from a lesson learned to,
truly heroic, aviation stories from, from,well, the last sounds like 40 years or or more.
(38:54):
Go visit at and I I've never I've never usedyour call sign today.
We didn't get in the call sign story.
It's, which John Rain Waters.
If you you wanna find that, I'm sure it'ssomewhere in piece together throughout
How it how it happened.
And when everyone always asks, like, dude, ifyou wanna tell us your call sign and what it
means, the freight from the get go, they'relying to you.
(39:15):
So
Yep.
I've I've, because in the tanker, we don't docall signs as much, but sometimes you you get
one, or somebody gets one because it's just
Yeah.
It's impossible not to give them that.
Somebody says something that sticks.
For instance, there's a guy in my formersquadron.
(39:35):
We I I think I it was me or somebody.
I think it was actually me.
I I will take credit for that.
Called them peaches one day.
Just For no reason.
There there there and it just stuck, and he'sbeen peaches forever.
There was a guy in my last squadron who foranother reason, we called him Jack, and, it was
(39:57):
so bad, that the Wing Commander thought hisreal name was Jack.
And on his name tag, it did not say that.
It said Mike.
And, she asked.
She's like, hey.
Is Jack around?
And, like, no.
And she goes, oh, Jack.
And then, I think somebody might ask, like, doyou know his real name is Mike?
And she's like, what?
Awesome.
She had no clue.
(40:17):
So, yeah, that that's really that was amazing.
But, go and listen to the podcast.
The stories are phenomenal.
The guests are great.
John does a great job, so does the rest of theteam.
And then how else can they reach you, find you,reach out?
I mean, who knows?
There might be somebody listening to this who'slike, hey.
I I'd like to give you more content because thestories that you get are plentiful, and there's
(40:39):
so many aspects to each one of these thatcreate and a lot of great storytelling is done.
Obviously, you just nailed 2 quick ones.
But when you can do a long form and and pullthis the story out and ask the right questions,
it truly is like listening to an audiobook, inshort format to hear these great aviators going
through these sometimes extreme situations andbeing delivered podcast.
(41:02):
So how can people reach out to you directly?
And Is it so so afrompodcast.com, I have acontact that sends an email to me or
rainwaters27 on Instagram.
You know?
I'm on there as well.
I don't know if I'm always in my comments or mymessages or things like that, but email is the
fastest way.
That's rain at theafterburnpodcast.com ifyou're too lazy to go to
(41:23):
theafterburnpodcast.com.
You know?
So, yeah, choose choose your own adventure.
Never Yeah.
Never know there.
Right?
Well, thanks, dude.
I so much appreciate you being here.
It was lots of fun.
I think we should do this again.
Maybe not.
We could we could figure out the schedulingpiece, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And and share a couple more stories and bring,just bring that aspect that we don't do because
(41:45):
we don't do a lot of that, on the on the pilotnetwork podcast.
We talk about the background story, but wedon't get into little individual, vignettes
that are really interesting and make aviationso fascinating to those who don't get to
participate like you did, or, I mean, to alesser extent, flying the tanker, but I've got
some stories that are pretty fascinating, whenyou think about it from a different aspect of,
(42:08):
like, what we saw and being, you know, super
I mean, I got a lot of tanker stories of savingthe day.
I mean, I also got a lot of tanker stories offinding the one cloud in in the sky.
You know?
Just it's a it's a mix.
Oh, yeah.
Dude, I almost, I still say, it'd be my 4th, aquick one here.
My 4th combat or my 4th combat sortie ever.
(42:30):
Some 4th deployed sortie ever.
5th, mission ready sortie in the tanker.
I guess it was 6 because it took 2 to fly overthere.
We flew through a thunderstorm that, wasentirely my fault because I didn't know how to
use the radar yet to actually That's awesome.
I was using ground map mode.
No clue was doing.
But the reality was is when we went back andfound out how big the storm was, it was from
(42:52):
4,000 feet up to 48,000 feet from Iran to SaudiArabia.
So there was no going around it.
It was we're going through it.
And we, we 2 Vipers had to fly through itbehind us.
I don't know where they were coming out of,but, anyways, they we met them up in the area.
And, I can't remember if it's lead or Waynecame up and he goes, I have no idea if I'm
upside down right now or not.
(43:13):
We're like, well, we're not, so you're good.
Just.
Stay on us.
And, yeah.
And then we we got him out in a clear, mean,the the weather went for quite a while ways up
in Iraq.
Took him out, got him on the wing, got him insome clear air, and, they we hit another
pocket.
And dude was on the wing.
(43:33):
Rolt got as tight as he could, and I I stillswear to this day that we we had a little tip
touching, that there was a a paint trade.
Because it did not feel like regularturbulence, and the second he got that
happened, he popped out and was gone.
Like, straight up in the air.
He's like, I'm out of here, dude.
It was they went lost wingman with each otherand They met up.
(43:55):
They climbed up.
They went to the top of, their block, met up.
And then right after that, we get back into theclear.
They come get gas again.
They're on, Wing was on us.
Lead's kinda hanging out, and he's like, hey.
We can't reach this ax man.
Can you guys try to get him?
Because, we're gonna go down a little lower.
They go down.
We pick up ax man on 1.
(44:16):
Still can't.
We hear them.
And then all of a sudden, he's like, stand byeverybody on the radio.
We're dragging bodies.
They they drop down and start doing yoyo ops.
And, back then in 0 4, ROE wasn't great.
They saw the guys, but they couldn't shoot athim.
So they were just doing, some show of force,which was actually not even authorized.
And by the time they got authorized for aweapons release, the fight was over.
(44:39):
We lost a couple guys on the ground.
And that was, like, my intro to that.
It was really it sucked.
It hurt to, like, be so it felt like you wereuseless because you you guys were going and at
least able to scare them off or try to.
Those guys were shooting on the ground, and I'msitting here just, like, orbiting.
And it sucked.
(44:59):
Right?
But I felt like that's my job now.
That's what I I'm there to facilitate makingthese other things happen.
And I realized that it's kind of been my wholecareer.
Like, that that's what TPN does.
That's what, I do as a dad.
I'm facilitating these other people to go betheir their best and and go, accomplish the
mission.
Sometimes the mission gets done, and sometimeswe're unable to complete it.
(45:22):
But to be there and be the support structurefor that is really cool.
So there there's the big tanker story.
That's the tank tanker takeaway for the day.
But, again, man, thanks for coming on.
I I can't wait to, hear more and see what youguys are doing.
And, hopefully, we'll see, the Afterburnpodcast.
Yeah.
At least 1 guy come up and, Yeah.
It's a it's a whole calendar.
A couple beers with their awesome, dude.
(45:44):
Thanks again.
And, always, as, everybody out there, so go, gocheck it out, the afterburn podcast.com or, you
know, type it in Google.
And if you got questions for us, hit Matt or Iup, hey, guys, at the pilot network dot com.
As always, keep the shiny side up, the greasyside down.
Fly safe,
(46:12):
everybody.
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