September 29, 2023 • 44 mins
In this episode, Adam Uhan and Shane Platt delve into the intricacies of Airline Apps, discussing the impact of pilot shortage on regional airlines, and offering advice on application submissions. They also explore industry trends, the regional carrier model, and the transition from military to airline applications.
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Network liters up.
Today, I am joined by Shane Platt, chiefoperating officer of airline apps.
Many of us have always wanted to look behindthe curtain what goes on at airline apps and
see what all that stuff is that we can eversee.
(01:07):
I know I did when I went through my applicationprocess.
I had no idea.
About what actually happened behind the scenesin the amalgamation of so many people's resumes
and applications to get on with the differentcompanies.
In fact, I think Shane mentioned something like30 or so plus companies, and they kinda come
(01:29):
and go who are or who work with airline apps?
Very interesting stuff, Shane.
It's a former marine harrier pilot.
Works for a major airline now.
We've been trying to see each other out on theroad just by, happenstance.
We've been in the same place a couple times andhaven't made it work.
So this was our first chance to sit down andchat all about airline apps.
(01:52):
Well, I hope you enjoyed this episode.
I know I had a great time recording at becauseI've learned a ton.
So let's get to the good stuff and enough of mebabbling.
Here's Shane.
Shane, finally glad to get connected andactually do this.
We've been trying for months now.
Yeah.
It
seems our schedules just never marry up andthey finally we finally got something on the
(02:15):
books and here we are doing the podcast.
How have you been?
Good.
Good.
Busy, but, probably like you, things are, quickpaced and a 1,000,000 different directions.
I bet.
Yeah.
I've yeah.
1,000,000 different direction is is spot on.
So let's let's go back to the very beginning ofthis.
(02:36):
Before we started changing that we're talking,airline apps has been around essentially since
way before I ever got my job.
At a major.
I remember filling out the app and all thatkind of stuff.
And my question always was is I was doing it,like, what is the secret sauce behind this
giant curtain.
I just couldn't figure out how or why it cameabout.
(02:58):
And then also there's so many questions I haveabout the amalgamation and and just being a
collection point for all these applicationsbecause, I mean, that that literally, I can't
tens of thousands of applications over the timeover over the years have come through airline
apps to get there.
So how did this all start and, and when did itall start?
(03:19):
Yeah.
Great question.
So, the company has been in business roughly 20years, and, for those that have been around
that long in the airline industry, you know,most guys of of that, history in the airline
industry remember that when they wanted toapply to the airlines, they had to reach out to
(03:41):
the airlines and request an application.
And that typically included mailing in theirapplication fee, which was a check.
And, in the form of some amount to thatcompany.
And, they would mail you a no kidding paperapplication.
Uhan you'd have to stick it in your typewriter,type the whole thing out with no mistakes, and,
(04:07):
you know, if you goofed up, you had to startall over.
So that was, you know, the process years ago,right, before the Internet came along.
So, you know, it got to the point that,obviously, somebody said, gosh, there's gotta
be a wetter better way to do this.
That somebody was Plato Ryan.
Who started the company.
(04:28):
And the short version of the story is, youknow, there's really 2 parts to the system.
There's the applicant side, and then there'sthe employer side.
And building that conduit between those twointerfaces is, really, like you said, the
secret sauce to the system.
(04:49):
So when an applicant goes in and says, Hey,I've been flying for 2 months.
I'd like to go in my account and update myflight time.
Right.
They can go and update, whatever it is, PIC,SIC, etcetera.
And the moment that they hit save, literally,after they click the save button on the other
(05:09):
end, a recruiter has the ability to see thoseupdates instantly.
So it's it's a real time interface, you know,all tied together in the database.
So when we've heard in the past many, I I mean,I heard this back when I started.
It it's it's definitely a different landscapenow than it was.
(05:31):
But there's a lot of truth to get your stuff onfile early.
Update often.
Submit when ready or maybe even when you don'tfeel you're ready, but the time is more or less
now and then continue to update because arecruiter slash hiring official is seeing that
(05:56):
data transfer real time if and when they desireto pull your application.
Is that kind of correct, or is it more is theremore nuance that, like, if I'm there's, like, a
score or something like that, and I and I'mtalking more when we were well, when I was
applying 10 years ago, there the the market wasdifferent and I was competing against other
(06:21):
folks who are Either like hours or like resumesor or had more than I did of whatever you wanna
call it more.
Yeah.
How so how does how do how does that backgroundwork?
Or is that very, relative and conditional toeach airline?
Yeah.
So, you know, pre COVID, and even probably, youknow, if you back up even from that a couple of
(06:45):
years, it was still extremely difficult andextremely competitive, to kinda get your foot
in the door, with a major And if you back upseveral years from that point, depending on
your timing, your credentials, it could bedifficult to get your foot in the door with
some of the regionals.
(07:07):
And like you just said, a lot of that hasshifted and changed.
And so today, the, the, quote, unquote, pilotshortage is really impacting the regionals.
It's impacting everybody, but a lot more on theregional side.
So with that, I would encourage applicants toget their application in really as quickly as
(07:30):
they can.
And before I continue down that path too far,it's important to know that recruiters, they
have a lot of tools available to them.
Inside the software.
And a couple of those things are to, view onlyqualified applicants Right?
So, you know, when you've got thousands ofapplications to sift through, what you don't
(07:55):
wanna do from an efficiency standpoint is spendtime on applicants only to find out afterward
that they're not qualified.
So, you know, some of those tools for themgives him the ability to to view only qualified
applicants.
And the, one of the other significant tools is,application recency.
(08:16):
So again, recruiters, right?
So, if I'm a recruiter at an airline, happen tobe looking at your application, today, what
you're already employed elsewhere.
Right?
So to spend that time working through theapplication, reach out, contact you, only to
find out.
Thanks.
No.
Thanks.
I'm already working, somewhere else.
(08:37):
We wanted to alleviate that also.
So they have the ability to view applicationswith respect to a certain recency, whatever
recency they select or desire.
So those 2 tools are important.
Right.
So if you turn an application in prior toreally being qualified, you know, whether
that's flight hours, ATP rating, what,whatever, the lack of credential or hour might
(09:03):
be, just know that recruiters do have theability, to go in and view only qualified
people.
Now once you meet that qualification, right,hey.
I continue updating my application the moment.
I get that ATP rating the moment.
I get that required flight time, whatever thatis, whatever I'm missing.
(09:25):
Obviously, you would appear in the list ofcandidates that are qualified.
If they happen to be viewing only qualifiedapplicants, the same with recency.
Right?
And so there's 2 aspects in airline apps todoing updates to your application.
1 is updating the data.
(09:46):
Right?
And I got more flight time, change seats fromthe right seat to the left seat.
I'm now captain, data points or updated realtime the moment you hit the save button.
Hey.
I got an extra 100 PIC hours.
I hit save.
That's done.
Differently is your application date, and thisgoes to the recency discussion.
(10:10):
So when you go to the my job targeting page andyour company or list of companies to whom
you're applying is listed there, you're gonnasee, an update button down there.
And typically on, all of these columns andthese pages, you're gonna see an information
icon somewhere on that page that'll kindadescribe, what that button that column that
(10:35):
feature does.
And in this case, that update button is gonnaupdate your application date.
And that's important.
Again, for those recruiters that say, hey.
I only wanna see cases that are this many daysold.
So back to your point, hey, when should Isubmit?
When should I update?
(10:56):
Updates really as frequently as you can.
And on the submission standpoint, I wouldn'tsacrifice, expediency for quality.
You know, being on the support side here atairline apps, we see it wide array of quality
applications versus non quality applications.
(11:19):
Some look amazing.
Some look like they were filled out with a grayon.
So remember who you're going in front of, whoyou're presenting this to.
So when you're talking about submitting to amainline carrier, You definitely wanna put your
best foot forward.
And, again, when they have thousands raisingtheir hand saying pick me pick me, what makes
(11:40):
you different, what makes you better.
So that lack of a quality application is notwhat you want to be your starting point.
Those applicants that are really just gettingstarted coming out of, you know, a college,
flying program or you know, some of thecorporate and flying schools that are out
(12:00):
there.
When they are, getting to the point, they'vereached the point.
They they meet the basic qualifications forgetting on at a regional.
That's a little different because the turnoverrate at the regionals is so high right now.
I I wouldn't say don't put your best footforward, but there is a more, important and
(12:24):
imperative need at the regionals to replacethose bodies that are turning over right now.
So, all that to say again, you know, put yourapplication in when you're ready.
If you're not qualified, know that once youmeet those qualifications, you'll pop up like
everybody else in their search results.
The other thing with that is, again, dependingon who you're applying to, it's, you know, it's
(12:51):
a different world these days, but we do getsupport requests sometimes from people that
say, hey, I turned in my application in,yesterday or a couple of days ago, and I
haven't heard anything.
That's, don't be surprised.
You know, if it takes several weeks or severalmonths, especially for mainline carriers to get
back to you because, again, they're going overliterally thousands of applications.
(13:15):
So one of the things that I wanted to, kindadelve into here is and and peel back the layer
of the onion a little bit even further.
So a guy like me when I put my application in,I was at Atlas.
Beforehand, and I was looking at different,paths that I wanted to go down, with my with my
(13:38):
forever job, if you wanna call it that.
And one of the things that I I was a littleconcerned about was kinda building my
application up before I was ready to submit it.
I didn't have all my I didn't have all the datapoints I needed to put in.
For instance, and this is here, a tip to thoseof you out there who are building app
(14:00):
locations, resumes for anything that you'reever gonna do, whether it's airlines or outside
of that.
If you have the and this goes primarily formilitary people, whether you're a pilot or not,
but you have a clearance of some kind.
You can pull your clearance paperwork.
It's got your job history for the last 10years.
And you don't have to do any of that digging.
(14:20):
It's got where you lived.
It's got everything.
And it made it way easier for me.
I never even thought about that.
I don't remember if somebody told me that trickor whatever it was, but I remember it.
I I I think I might have had to go through mysecurity clearance update update, like, the
reinterview process and Right.
Sure was updated.
And when I went through it, I'm like, holy cow,this has got everything I need right here.
(14:42):
So it
made it super easy.
Yeah.
But before that, I was trying to, like,remember, okay, where did I live from this
state to this state?
That kind of stuff.
And I wanted to start filling on my applicationsooner than later because and and for those of
you who are not to the advanced age of Shaneand I, when you don't do it as a younger
(15:06):
person, you think, oh, that'll be easier whenI'm older.
There is nothing on this planet that I know ofthat gets easier as you get older.
That's correct.
Especially when it comes to time sucking thingslike filling out an application, whether it's
for an airline or burger king, it is not easierwhen it gets older.
It becomes more difficult because you have tofit it into the life that you have kids,
(15:29):
activities, work, whatever it might be.
So I I can't emphasize enough for me howimportant it was to start that application
process early.
What I what I'm getting at with the saying allthis is if I'm that new person who's looking
for that job, you what I'm what I'm hearing yousay is it is more it's not only fine, but
(15:53):
courage to go in, start filling out all of thatstuff.
And then you come back to all the other thingsthat you need later on and you don't
necessarily have to hit the submit button.
You just have to start filling out the all thisdata that that is required by these companies.
Is that's is is that correct?
I wanna make sure that I'm saying that soeverybody understands.
(16:15):
Yeah.
And you really, to your point, it's reallynever too early to start that process.
This.
Because it, you know, it is a lengthyapplication.
But to to dovetail onto that, we also dooccasionally get support requests from people
that either haven't filled out an applicationin the pie in the aviation industry, or it's
(16:40):
been so long.
They've really forgotten what that processlooks like, and they reach out kinda out of
frustration.
And so we typically will, you know, researchthe applicant's account, their application
before we engage with them so we can kinda getup to speed what's going on.
And it's not uncommon for us to run across somefolks with, you know, missing sections or a lot
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of missing sections on the application.
And their point is, I, I don't wanna fill allthat out.
And so again, you gotta remember your audiencewho you're submitting this to.
Yeah.
And for those, that are just getting started,there there are a lot of tools available to you
out there.
I know when you're getting started in aviation,feels like everybody's trying to nickel and
(17:24):
dime you.
But there are some great, resources out therefor application review services.
Now the the counter side to that, or there aresome that are not so great.
We find that out really on accident when peoplereach out to us and we look at the application
and like, gosh, what what were you doing here?
Well, you know, so and so told me to to dothat.
(17:46):
So, you know, do your research, find out whothe the good ones, the reputable ones are.
And, you know, whether it's, you know, 1, 2,$300, it is well worth, the spit and polish
they're gonna put on that application for you,before you turn that into somebody.
But, yeah, get started early and get get thatthing built up.
(18:07):
I love hearing That that is so because you're adefinitive source.
Right?
Like, I mean Yeah.
You may not We we we know out there.
So we've always tried at Tbn to filter the thewheat from the chaff and and be able to say,
hey.
Well, you know, like, a lot of us have usedthis resource for that and steer folk into and
(18:33):
out of areas that we think that helped us.
That were good or or have a little bit as a asa as a group.
You know, it's like like a living organism thewhole group together, the network, being able
to have a finger on the pulse of the collectiveand being able to say, hey.
Things have shifted in this category.
This is not where you wanna go any longer.
(18:54):
This is a much better option.
Your your money value is better over here.
As opposed to this place yada yada yada.
All that stuff, inclusive.
But I think when you say that, the what I'mwhat I would have love to hear is because, like
I said, when I remember filling out an airlineapp, I'm like, does this get shot off into the
(19:15):
wilderness?
And then all of a sudden, you know, what, like,it it is not, it and it for good reason.
I now that I'm on the on this side of what I'vebeen doing and getting to know the hiring teams
at these different airlines.
Transparency, they wanna be transparent aboutwhat they're doing, hiring wise, for the
future, show people, hey.
(19:35):
This is something we're gonna hire.
This is what the future looks like for theairline blah blah blah.
But it's different than it was years ago.
However, there there's a certain limit to thatbefore they go too far where they they can't
interview the talent that's coming in and get agood feel for them to be their brand ambassador
because they, quote, unquote, have the answersto the questions you've Those don't really
(19:59):
exist.
I don't care what anybody tells you there.
Right.
That doesn't exist.
And there had to be a gatekeeper thatapplication process is really the gatekeeper.
The funny part is, though, is I think peopletake it.
I I don't know what they're doing nowadays.
I I can honestly say I was, a a younger,individual going through this, I was extremely
(20:21):
diligent about crossing every t, dotting everyI, putting a period where it needed to be
splitting words up that needed to be pull itup.
I mean, the, you know, the age old DeltaAirlines or
Delta Airlines.
Things like that, but that that was across theboard.
It's so many different in so many differentways.
So to hear it from you makes it much more of a,okay, folks.
(20:45):
This is real.
And and, unfortunately, I'm sorry, to thenetwork and to my previous self that I wasn't
able to do this podcast, like, 15 years ago or12 years ago, So Yeah.
Apologies to everybody out there.
Thank you for your patience.
Here we are.
So Now that we've got kind of a the theadministrative, almost logistical background of
(21:08):
what the what's happening behind the scenes bylooking at it.
I mean, we don't have to get into the nuts andbolts.
Again, I'm not the software guy.
Matt was here.
You might really get into the the the codingaspect and this and that and whatever.
But with with, we talked before, you said thatroughly 30 airlines, they come and go.
(21:28):
Sure.
Yep.
Yeah.
Any other hiring perspective or, you know, ifthey if they're expanding, contracting Yep.
Going out of business, whatever that stuff.
As far as you what you see in the industry as aObviously, it's growth almost everywhere or not
(21:49):
necessarily growth replacement.
Some some airlines are growing.
Some are just replacing it, but as far as apilot who is just starting out trying to get a
job, whether that's a military transition folk,whether that is a a brand new, 0 to hero type
off the street.
You know, went to school, whether it's a CFIwho's busted their butt and is now finally
(22:10):
getting to the point where they can get a job.
It's growth for everybody there.
Whether the airline is growing in size or notdoesn't necessarily affect them getting a job.
What's your kind of crystal ball?
So I and I understand crystal ball's mind wassmashed years ago.
Yep.
What do you see kind of the the trend and wherethings are going right now, especially through
(22:32):
the application process alone.
Yeah.
So historically, you know, we it was notuncommon to see kinda, cargo slash freight
being 180 out with the 121 industry.
121 is good.
(22:54):
Cargo may be down.
Cargoes up.
121's down.
The you know, that was historically speaking.
Today, there are again, there's so muchturnover happening right now.
That the faucet, at least today, is on, justabout everywhere.
(23:16):
And but one of the dynamics that that'simposing on some of the other industries.
Right?
You've got the mainline carriers and theiraffiliated regionals today, they are funding
and throwing big money at their regionalaffiliates to try to retain or attract pilots,
(23:43):
to either go there and or stay there.
Everything from hiring bonuses to signingbonuses to retention bonuses.
And it's unprecedented.
Right?
So, you know, you and I, if we backed up 10years and and asked, you know, what does a
regional pay as a new hire, you know, typicallyit was much lower than even what we experienced
(24:07):
in the airline industry, which was awfully low.
So a lot of that's changed, to the point thatyou have some regionals that are, you know,
better part of paying a hundred bucks an hourto new hires.
In addition to signing bonuses, things likethat.
So I mentioned all that to say when you startlooking at, how do I get my foot in the
(24:28):
industry get going, get that experience?
Just know that, the opportunities are there,but when you start to look at some of the
different industries that don't have thatsupporting financial force behind it, sometimes
those bonuses and or pay rates really can'tcompete with what's being thrown at some of
(24:53):
those regional industry applicants at the entrypoint.
And that's, again, It it really comes down to,you know, where you feel you're wanting to to
work in the industry.
Some, you know, we have folks that reach out tous and say, Hey.
I don't really wanna be an airline pilot.
(25:13):
You know, what do you have for 135 or 91 or,you know, things of that nature.
So but there are a lot of dynamics behind thatright now.
And, something you mentioned earlier are, youknow, our company's ebb and flow somewhere
around the, you know, the 30 company mark, butthose companies that go out of business.
(25:35):
And so, one thing you know, just curious fromme, I'll be curious to see this, you know, the
financial force behind some of these offers andbonuses what that does to some of the
companies, that don't have that financialbacking force to attract talent.
And so if it gets to the point, they can'tstaff the airplanes and or their commitments,
(26:00):
you know, what that does to them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's weird too.
Right?
Because both where we work, which separate butsimilar, in ways.
Right?
I think one of the most interesting things tome is if and to to almost take this a step
(26:21):
further and, yeah, this is more, trajectory orcrystal ball smashing.
If those companies do have a staffing issue tothe point where they no longer can meet their
commitments to their larger non wholly owned,but their larger carrier where they have their
contracts with.
(26:43):
The contracts that most part 9 1 or a 121people operate under, they will not allow for
those for the aircraft and those crew to comeon board and be stapled to the bottom or
whatever horrible thing that could happencontractually.
But there's just even if that could be apossibility, which would save people jobs,
(27:07):
there is no there's nothing in most of thecontracts that are out there to allow for that
to occur because there's no room left.
There's no room in the scope clauses to allowfor If your airline says you can have a 100,
narrow body regionals at 70 or, excuse me, 76seat regional jets that are flying for you, and
(27:28):
a carrier such as, I don't know, we'll take abig one that that is that is very dominant in
the space SkyWest who doesn't have an issuelike that.
Has, would have a a meltdown, and there's stillanother 80 aircraft from other carriers out
there who are operating they couldn't beabsorbed onto under major X Y Z Right.
(27:49):
Because there's only twin that that's just notthere's not enough space.
And they're not wholly owned and they couldjust that you it's a it would have to be a
merger purchase type thing.
Again, I don't understand all the all theinsights to that.
What I do know is just from my own contractreading and having friends at different and
(28:09):
being around the industry and reading othercontracts, is that is not that's not a player
in a lot of cases.
So if it's a smaller regional company that hascontracts that float, if they have a staffing
shortage to the point where they no longer canoperate, It's really sad, but those are those
(28:31):
people are probably gonna be out on the streetlooking for jobs, relatively quickly.
And that that's something none of us want inthis industry.
We don't want any pilots to not have jobs It isit is the reality of something that we do work
in.
In the way the way the regional carrier modelkind of has matured to this point.
It's just it it worked, but no longer works, inthe way it did in the past.
(28:52):
Not all of them.
I mean, some of them are some of them are verywell operated and have a great contractual
obligations with with much larger carriers.
I I find, the the fascinating that shoots offon a bunch of other areas that I could go into
with scope and stuff like that, but I wannastay right on the on on the application topic
(29:12):
and and kind of on a on a small on a differenttangent, but still in that in that vein.
So you're a military guy, former Harry Marinedude, which is cool.
I have a a good friend who did that as well.
And one of the things that I always am blownaway by is how we all get involved in a side
(29:37):
hustle or some part of this industry that makesno sense from what we did before.
So how did that happen for you?
Airlines marine harrier dude one day, airlineapps expert next.
How does that work?
Yeah.
My it's it's funny.
You know, it's definitely a trail of brokentears there.
So when I got out, the Marine Corps, like Isaid, most of mainline regionals weren't hiring
(30:04):
at that point.
So over to Lockheed, And, you know, just somedabbling, some helping out with database stuff,
website stuff, that evolved and, Eventually onto, there was a consulting firm called check 6
that's out there.
And, you know, a group of mostly former, hightempo operators in the in the military that
(30:32):
bring on that that high risk consultingperspective.
So anyway, working for them, again, a databaseproduct that, that we built and deployed
worldwide wound up managing that program fully.
And, when I moved on to the, to the airlineworld, found myself in a recruiting role,
(30:55):
working with, within pilot recruiting managerfor my company.
And so that was one of the, initialopportunities to reach out and work with
airline apps on, you know, some needsrequirements that we had that were company
specific.
And, through those conversations, you know, iteventually just got to the point where, you
(31:15):
know, there was the the offer to come over andand help over here and Gosh, whatever that was,
8, 9 years ago.
I've been here ever since.
And, great, great opportunity, great company,can't say enough of good things about it.
Plato's wonderful to work for.
So and that's that brings me kind of my nextpoint one of the things that makes us different
(31:41):
from a lot of the other companies out there,you when you reach out to help for, to help
with us, You know, we're not just a softwarecompany.
That's certainly one of the things we do.
Lots of developers, most of us here have somesort of computer experience in some form or
fashion.
But when you reach out for help to us, It'simportant to know that, you're not just getting
(32:08):
an anonymous tech support response.
You know, we're a company of software folksthat are also military pilots, civilian pilots,
part 91 pilots, part 91 k for actional 135,121.
Really the the full gamut and the fullperspective.
And that's important because, you know, thevariety and the audience of those that reach
(32:33):
out to us for help.
And the same thing from a company'sperspective, right, when an airline reaches out
for help or fractional company reaches out forhelp.
It's important to them to know that weunderstand the background and the needs that
they have coming from that particular focus.
So it's, on average, I I think we respond andanswer, 1000, probably somewhere 4 or 5000
(32:56):
emails in phone call every year from theapplicants.
So it's, it's really busy.
Well, that I think then we're gonna have to,we're gonna have to push for airline apps that
have at TPNX.
This next year at Mini.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Right?
Shame them up there and answer every singlequestion that they have because I remember
being one of those guys, and I do remembergetting a response, email.
(33:20):
This is pre your existence at airline apps.
But I do remember getting, a response.
Again, though, it was the the website to me.
It was just like, okay.
I go to this thing.
Algorithmator of of that nation.
And I'm like, okay.
What where what it goes on, behind the scenes?
Really interesting.
(33:41):
I think the the last, thing that I reallywanted to, to bring up is now we We've seen
other companies and and other aspects ofdifferent airlines who who have their own site
service, stuff like that.
(34:01):
What does it take to really recruit It soundsso weird, but recruit an airline to come and
say, we, man, we really love your product.
We want to entrust you with this processbecause it is such a Alright.
It it's a huge deal.
It it it makes or break the airline if youreally look at it from the perspective of
Right.
We're hiring not only safe sound excellentoperators of our of our airplanes, but also
(34:27):
these brand ambassadors take our airline to thenext level.
We might not be so much talking about theregional community because of the turnover
there, but some of the bigger carriers, notonly just majors, but some carriers that can
become, the final destination for a lot offolks.
How does one recruit an airline like that?
Yeah.
It's, I it's a great question, and it haschanged and shifted, you know, over the last
(34:53):
probably 5 years.
You know, historically, you traditionally had apilot at that company at a minimum that was in
charge of pilot hiring is, you know, typicallythe way that worked.
Which is important.
Right?
Same reason you wouldn't have a pilot hiringdoctors.
(35:14):
You need a pilot that hires pilots knows whatthey're looking for.
And to your point, knows what that brandambassador looks like.
Who's a good fit for our company?
Who's not?
And, all of those considerations are reallybuilt into their recruiting process, which
varies from company to company?
Over the last Again, probably 5 to 7 years.
(35:40):
We kinda seen a migration of the pilotrecruiting departments at the various companies
shift out from under, either a flight opsleadership or flight ops umbrella into human
resources and or talent acquisition.
Now that won't mean anything to most, you know,pilots that are just applying for a job.
(36:04):
But it it's having profound impacts in theaviation industry.
So when, when things shift over to the HRTAumbrella, there are, processes, procedures,
tools that they have in place really for, youknow, the rest of the company.
Everybody's got things.
They do great.
(36:24):
Things they don't do so great.
We do pilot hiring.
Great.
We don't do the other, positions with thecompanies.
So when companies have other tools andprocesses, for those other areas of the
company.
And then pilot hiring is moved under thatumbrella.
(36:46):
Sometimes there are moves and initiatives toessentially absorb pilot hiring into their
tools and processes.
So, obviously that's always, you know, just oneof the threats of what we do.
And then you have companies that, will use usand integrate us with their other tools and
(37:08):
processes.
And that's an important point to bring up too.
Occasionally, doesn't happen a lot, butoccasionally, we'll have an reach out to us and
say, Hey.
I, you know, I was talking to such and suchrecruiter who, mentioned they couldn't see me
in their system.
Well, when we do the research and get tolooking at what is happening.
(37:28):
What they're not seeing is that applicant intheir other third party system.
And so, that's typically at the smallerregional level, you know, where we see
something like that.
But that's just the challenge of, the processbeing moved under the HRTA umbrella, especially
(37:49):
when Again, there's not, a pilot or group ofpilots that are in charge of the pilot hiring
process.
And, definitely makes it challenging.
It's one of the just one of the threats youconstantly have to deal with.
Yeah.
I knowing and having done some of this now andseeing it definitely seems like, there is
(38:11):
they're almost doing an integrated mix ofpilots helping HR and HR helping pilots.
And some of it, some places are figuring itout, so some places have it more, lockdown to a
Yeah.
A certain a certain cadence, but in my opinion,the the biggest help is not having to sort
(38:32):
through or build your own system to sortthrough thousands of applications when it's
much easier to outsource that to an expert andan expert, not only on the software side, but
experts on what a pilot looks like smells likeall that stuff because Yeah.
You can you can build an application from an HRperspective that will meet all the boxes you
(38:59):
want checked.
But the reality is you may be getting a productthat shows up for an interview that is nothing
like you wanted, as a pilot.
They may fit very well as somebody who'sworking an above wing job or blowing job or an
office job, but they don't meet the linerequirements and the crew, aspect, whether,
(39:20):
yeah, it I could see where it'd be almost thesame in the, the in flight service community
for those in the 121 world that deal withpassengers.
Well, that that's that's what I mean, there's alot of, stuff that we could unpack further
there.
And more trade secrets, that would be superinteresting.
But I think the big takeaway that I that I wantfolks who are listening to this, especially put
(39:45):
people who are just in that transitional phaseor in the beginning phases.
It's never too early to start putting togetheryour application.
And if you have an issue of any kind or youneed help, reach out to the folks at airline
apps, they're there to help you.
And they're there to help you quickly.
They they deal with this all the time.
They've seen it all go go and ask thisquestion.
(40:07):
So if I'm one of those individuals, how how canI find you guys besides airline apps.com?
I think I think that's synonymous nowadayswith, in addition, but, other ways that they
can reach out to you and the folks at airlineapps.
Yeah.
There there's obviously a contact page on ourwebsite, but really supported airline apps.com,
come straight in.
(40:28):
And, we will assign the support requestsappropriately depending on the, the topic.
But our, you know, our support times, wetypically most emails get answered somewhere
within an hour or 2.
Phone calls are a little more challengingbecause you might imagine the rings off the
hook.
So I would encourage you to try to reach out,via email first.
(40:51):
Those get answered a little more quickly, but,again, because of the the support software that
we use and how we can assign and route thosesupport requests.
And, but yeah, don't hesitate to reach out tous anytime.
That's what we're here for is, to make iteasier.
Now with that, I will say You know,occasionally, we get the, Hey, how should I
answer this question?
(41:12):
And, you know, that's something we can't do,right?
So, because if somebody doesn't get hired, wecan't have, have the reason being, well, he
told me to put that there.
So that's why I didn't get hired.
So you know, we'll walk you through the, thesystem.
And if you got a question on what a section isasking, what it's looking for, we can certainly
(41:32):
help you with that, but definitely don'thesitate to reach out.
We're always here for them.
I want everybody to rewind 30 seconds andlisten that last whole piece again.
Because when I used to do the interview prepstuff, I'd tell people, if I had a one sheet
page with the 10 questions they're gonna askand the 10 answers to give, and I can guarantee
(41:53):
your unit hired.
I'm gonna charge you $10,000.
Don't get hired, I'll give you 11,000 backbecause I'm still gonna make 9 out of 10 to,
get hired with $90,000 in my pocket.
The reality is it's not how it works.
You have to learn how to communicate, andairline apps is telling you how to be a
communicator on paper.
By giving you the framework, telling you to goout and get that guidance that you could that
(42:16):
you can use.
And then I will always go off and talk aboutthe interview prep and all that other nonsense.
But Yeah.
Again, it's supported airline apps.com.
Easiest way to get in touch with the folksthere.
If you have a question, that's not relating tohow should I answer this question?
I bet you I bet you they can help you.
If you need to fill learn how to write yourname in the name block or your address.
(42:37):
They'll tell you how to fill that out.
Other than that, you're on your own.
Go go figure it out and and get that that help.
Shane, I'm really I was really happy that wefinally got to do this.
I want me to to bumping into each othersomewhere, not on the internet or in person.
And I can, treat you to a frosty beverage ofyour choice, no matter where that is.
(43:02):
And then, for all those of you out therelistening to the show, we've got a lot more
great stuff coming up.
In this world and in the real world, TPNX is anApril, 3rd week in April, we're gonna start,
ramping that up.
These are just, you know, the little remindersout there.
So market calendars, hopefully, love.
Shane or airline apps and a lot of other hostsin guests out there, excuse me, guests.
(43:25):
We're the host.
A lot of guests out there in Minneapolis tocome and answer all your questions.
And as always, if you need to get a hold ofMatt or I, it's, hey, guys.
Out of network.
Dotcom.
Apply safe, everybody.
Keep the shiny side up, and the grease sidedown.
Coffee.
It's the fuel we rely on when we wake up.
A casual drink we get on a work break or aspecial treat for us when we need it most.
Nothing.
It's a good cup of Joe.
So why settle for a mediocre cup of coffee whenyou can have the very best?
At aeronautical coffee company, we roast ourspecialty grade coffee to order.
(00:20):
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So pick up a bag at aeronauticalcoffee.com anduse code TPN at checkout for 10% off.
Fuel up and take off with ACC.
(00:45):
Network liters up.
Today, I am joined by Shane Platt, chiefoperating officer of airline apps.
Many of us have always wanted to look behindthe curtain what goes on at airline apps and
see what all that stuff is that we can eversee.
(01:07):
I know I did when I went through my applicationprocess.
I had no idea.
About what actually happened behind the scenesin the amalgamation of so many people's resumes
and applications to get on with the differentcompanies.
In fact, I think Shane mentioned something like30 or so plus companies, and they kinda come
(01:29):
and go who are or who work with airline apps?
Very interesting stuff, Shane.
It's a former marine harrier pilot.
Works for a major airline now.
We've been trying to see each other out on theroad just by, happenstance.
We've been in the same place a couple times andhaven't made it work.
So this was our first chance to sit down andchat all about airline apps.
(01:52):
Well, I hope you enjoyed this episode.
I know I had a great time recording at becauseI've learned a ton.
So let's get to the good stuff and enough of mebabbling.
Here's Shane.
Shane, finally glad to get connected andactually do this.
We've been trying for months now.
Yeah.
It
seems our schedules just never marry up andthey finally we finally got something on the
(02:15):
books and here we are doing the podcast.
How have you been?
Good.
Good.
Busy, but, probably like you, things are, quickpaced and a 1,000,000 different directions.
I bet.
Yeah.
I've yeah.
1,000,000 different direction is is spot on.
So let's let's go back to the very beginning ofthis.
(02:36):
Before we started changing that we're talking,airline apps has been around essentially since
way before I ever got my job.
At a major.
I remember filling out the app and all thatkind of stuff.
And my question always was is I was doing it,like, what is the secret sauce behind this
giant curtain.
I just couldn't figure out how or why it cameabout.
(02:58):
And then also there's so many questions I haveabout the amalgamation and and just being a
collection point for all these applicationsbecause, I mean, that that literally, I can't
tens of thousands of applications over the timeover over the years have come through airline
apps to get there.
So how did this all start and, and when did itall start?
(03:19):
Yeah.
Great question.
So, the company has been in business roughly 20years, and, for those that have been around
that long in the airline industry, you know,most guys of of that, history in the airline
industry remember that when they wanted toapply to the airlines, they had to reach out to
(03:41):
the airlines and request an application.
And that typically included mailing in theirapplication fee, which was a check.
And, in the form of some amount to thatcompany.
And, they would mail you a no kidding paperapplication.
Uhan you'd have to stick it in your typewriter,type the whole thing out with no mistakes, and,
(04:07):
you know, if you goofed up, you had to startall over.
So that was, you know, the process years ago,right, before the Internet came along.
So, you know, it got to the point that,obviously, somebody said, gosh, there's gotta
be a wetter better way to do this.
That somebody was Plato Ryan.
Who started the company.
(04:28):
And the short version of the story is, youknow, there's really 2 parts to the system.
There's the applicant side, and then there'sthe employer side.
And building that conduit between those twointerfaces is, really, like you said, the
secret sauce to the system.
(04:49):
So when an applicant goes in and says, Hey,I've been flying for 2 months.
I'd like to go in my account and update myflight time.
Right.
They can go and update, whatever it is, PIC,SIC, etcetera.
And the moment that they hit save, literally,after they click the save button on the other
(05:09):
end, a recruiter has the ability to see thoseupdates instantly.
So it's it's a real time interface, you know,all tied together in the database.
So when we've heard in the past many, I I mean,I heard this back when I started.
It it's it's definitely a different landscapenow than it was.
(05:31):
But there's a lot of truth to get your stuff onfile early.
Update often.
Submit when ready or maybe even when you don'tfeel you're ready, but the time is more or less
now and then continue to update because arecruiter slash hiring official is seeing that
(05:56):
data transfer real time if and when they desireto pull your application.
Is that kind of correct, or is it more is theremore nuance that, like, if I'm there's, like, a
score or something like that, and I and I'mtalking more when we were well, when I was
applying 10 years ago, there the the market wasdifferent and I was competing against other
(06:21):
folks who are Either like hours or like resumesor or had more than I did of whatever you wanna
call it more.
Yeah.
How so how does how do how does that backgroundwork?
Or is that very, relative and conditional toeach airline?
Yeah.
So, you know, pre COVID, and even probably, youknow, if you back up even from that a couple of
(06:45):
years, it was still extremely difficult andextremely competitive, to kinda get your foot
in the door, with a major And if you back upseveral years from that point, depending on
your timing, your credentials, it could bedifficult to get your foot in the door with
some of the regionals.
(07:07):
And like you just said, a lot of that hasshifted and changed.
And so today, the, the, quote, unquote, pilotshortage is really impacting the regionals.
It's impacting everybody, but a lot more on theregional side.
So with that, I would encourage applicants toget their application in really as quickly as
(07:30):
they can.
And before I continue down that path too far,it's important to know that recruiters, they
have a lot of tools available to them.
Inside the software.
And a couple of those things are to, view onlyqualified applicants Right?
So, you know, when you've got thousands ofapplications to sift through, what you don't
(07:55):
wanna do from an efficiency standpoint is spendtime on applicants only to find out afterward
that they're not qualified.
So, you know, some of those tools for themgives him the ability to to view only qualified
applicants.
And the, one of the other significant tools is,application recency.
(08:16):
So again, recruiters, right?
So, if I'm a recruiter at an airline, happen tobe looking at your application, today, what
you're already employed elsewhere.
Right?
So to spend that time working through theapplication, reach out, contact you, only to
find out.
Thanks.
No.
Thanks.
I'm already working, somewhere else.
(08:37):
We wanted to alleviate that also.
So they have the ability to view applicationswith respect to a certain recency, whatever
recency they select or desire.
So those 2 tools are important.
Right.
So if you turn an application in prior toreally being qualified, you know, whether
that's flight hours, ATP rating, what,whatever, the lack of credential or hour might
(09:03):
be, just know that recruiters do have theability, to go in and view only qualified
people.
Now once you meet that qualification, right,hey.
I continue updating my application the moment.
I get that ATP rating the moment.
I get that required flight time, whatever thatis, whatever I'm missing.
(09:25):
Obviously, you would appear in the list ofcandidates that are qualified.
If they happen to be viewing only qualifiedapplicants, the same with recency.
Right?
And so there's 2 aspects in airline apps todoing updates to your application.
1 is updating the data.
(09:46):
Right?
And I got more flight time, change seats fromthe right seat to the left seat.
I'm now captain, data points or updated realtime the moment you hit the save button.
Hey.
I got an extra 100 PIC hours.
I hit save.
That's done.
Differently is your application date, and thisgoes to the recency discussion.
(10:10):
So when you go to the my job targeting page andyour company or list of companies to whom
you're applying is listed there, you're gonnasee, an update button down there.
And typically on, all of these columns andthese pages, you're gonna see an information
icon somewhere on that page that'll kindadescribe, what that button that column that
(10:35):
feature does.
And in this case, that update button is gonnaupdate your application date.
And that's important.
Again, for those recruiters that say, hey.
I only wanna see cases that are this many daysold.
So back to your point, hey, when should Isubmit?
When should I update?
(10:56):
Updates really as frequently as you can.
And on the submission standpoint, I wouldn'tsacrifice, expediency for quality.
You know, being on the support side here atairline apps, we see it wide array of quality
applications versus non quality applications.
(11:19):
Some look amazing.
Some look like they were filled out with a grayon.
So remember who you're going in front of, whoyou're presenting this to.
So when you're talking about submitting to amainline carrier, You definitely wanna put your
best foot forward.
And, again, when they have thousands raisingtheir hand saying pick me pick me, what makes
(11:40):
you different, what makes you better.
So that lack of a quality application is notwhat you want to be your starting point.
Those applicants that are really just gettingstarted coming out of, you know, a college,
flying program or you know, some of thecorporate and flying schools that are out
(12:00):
there.
When they are, getting to the point, they'vereached the point.
They they meet the basic qualifications forgetting on at a regional.
That's a little different because the turnoverrate at the regionals is so high right now.
I I wouldn't say don't put your best footforward, but there is a more, important and
(12:24):
imperative need at the regionals to replacethose bodies that are turning over right now.
So, all that to say again, you know, put yourapplication in when you're ready.
If you're not qualified, know that once youmeet those qualifications, you'll pop up like
everybody else in their search results.
The other thing with that is, again, dependingon who you're applying to, it's, you know, it's
(12:51):
a different world these days, but we do getsupport requests sometimes from people that
say, hey, I turned in my application in,yesterday or a couple of days ago, and I
haven't heard anything.
That's, don't be surprised.
You know, if it takes several weeks or severalmonths, especially for mainline carriers to get
back to you because, again, they're going overliterally thousands of applications.
(13:15):
So one of the things that I wanted to, kindadelve into here is and and peel back the layer
of the onion a little bit even further.
So a guy like me when I put my application in,I was at Atlas.
Beforehand, and I was looking at different,paths that I wanted to go down, with my with my
(13:38):
forever job, if you wanna call it that.
And one of the things that I I was a littleconcerned about was kinda building my
application up before I was ready to submit it.
I didn't have all my I didn't have all the datapoints I needed to put in.
For instance, and this is here, a tip to thoseof you out there who are building app
(14:00):
locations, resumes for anything that you'reever gonna do, whether it's airlines or outside
of that.
If you have the and this goes primarily formilitary people, whether you're a pilot or not,
but you have a clearance of some kind.
You can pull your clearance paperwork.
It's got your job history for the last 10years.
And you don't have to do any of that digging.
(14:20):
It's got where you lived.
It's got everything.
And it made it way easier for me.
I never even thought about that.
I don't remember if somebody told me that trickor whatever it was, but I remember it.
I I I think I might have had to go through mysecurity clearance update update, like, the
reinterview process and Right.
Sure was updated.
And when I went through it, I'm like, holy cow,this has got everything I need right here.
(14:42):
So it
made it super easy.
Yeah.
But before that, I was trying to, like,remember, okay, where did I live from this
state to this state?
That kind of stuff.
And I wanted to start filling on my applicationsooner than later because and and for those of
you who are not to the advanced age of Shaneand I, when you don't do it as a younger
(15:06):
person, you think, oh, that'll be easier whenI'm older.
There is nothing on this planet that I know ofthat gets easier as you get older.
That's correct.
Especially when it comes to time sucking thingslike filling out an application, whether it's
for an airline or burger king, it is not easierwhen it gets older.
It becomes more difficult because you have tofit it into the life that you have kids,
(15:29):
activities, work, whatever it might be.
So I I can't emphasize enough for me howimportant it was to start that application
process early.
What I what I'm getting at with the saying allthis is if I'm that new person who's looking
for that job, you what I'm what I'm hearing yousay is it is more it's not only fine, but
(15:53):
courage to go in, start filling out all of thatstuff.
And then you come back to all the other thingsthat you need later on and you don't
necessarily have to hit the submit button.
You just have to start filling out the all thisdata that that is required by these companies.
Is that's is is that correct?
I wanna make sure that I'm saying that soeverybody understands.
(16:15):
Yeah.
And you really, to your point, it's reallynever too early to start that process.
This.
Because it, you know, it is a lengthyapplication.
But to to dovetail onto that, we also dooccasionally get support requests from people
that either haven't filled out an applicationin the pie in the aviation industry, or it's
(16:40):
been so long.
They've really forgotten what that processlooks like, and they reach out kinda out of
frustration.
And so we typically will, you know, researchthe applicant's account, their application
before we engage with them so we can kinda getup to speed what's going on.
And it's not uncommon for us to run across somefolks with, you know, missing sections or a lot
(17:03):
of missing sections on the application.
And their point is, I, I don't wanna fill allthat out.
And so again, you gotta remember your audiencewho you're submitting this to.
Yeah.
And for those, that are just getting started,there there are a lot of tools available to you
out there.
I know when you're getting started in aviation,feels like everybody's trying to nickel and
(17:24):
dime you.
But there are some great, resources out therefor application review services.
Now the the counter side to that, or there aresome that are not so great.
We find that out really on accident when peoplereach out to us and we look at the application
and like, gosh, what what were you doing here?
Well, you know, so and so told me to to dothat.
(17:46):
So, you know, do your research, find out whothe the good ones, the reputable ones are.
And, you know, whether it's, you know, 1, 2,$300, it is well worth, the spit and polish
they're gonna put on that application for you,before you turn that into somebody.
But, yeah, get started early and get get thatthing built up.
(18:07):
I love hearing That that is so because you're adefinitive source.
Right?
Like, I mean Yeah.
You may not We we we know out there.
So we've always tried at Tbn to filter the thewheat from the chaff and and be able to say,
hey.
Well, you know, like, a lot of us have usedthis resource for that and steer folk into and
(18:33):
out of areas that we think that helped us.
That were good or or have a little bit as a asa as a group.
You know, it's like like a living organism thewhole group together, the network, being able
to have a finger on the pulse of the collectiveand being able to say, hey.
Things have shifted in this category.
This is not where you wanna go any longer.
(18:54):
This is a much better option.
Your your money value is better over here.
As opposed to this place yada yada yada.
All that stuff, inclusive.
But I think when you say that, the what I'mwhat I would have love to hear is because, like
I said, when I remember filling out an airlineapp, I'm like, does this get shot off into the
(19:15):
wilderness?
And then all of a sudden, you know, what, like,it it is not, it and it for good reason.
I now that I'm on the on this side of what I'vebeen doing and getting to know the hiring teams
at these different airlines.
Transparency, they wanna be transparent aboutwhat they're doing, hiring wise, for the
future, show people, hey.
(19:35):
This is something we're gonna hire.
This is what the future looks like for theairline blah blah blah.
But it's different than it was years ago.
However, there there's a certain limit to thatbefore they go too far where they they can't
interview the talent that's coming in and get agood feel for them to be their brand ambassador
because they, quote, unquote, have the answersto the questions you've Those don't really
(19:59):
exist.
I don't care what anybody tells you there.
Right.
That doesn't exist.
And there had to be a gatekeeper thatapplication process is really the gatekeeper.
The funny part is, though, is I think peopletake it.
I I don't know what they're doing nowadays.
I I can honestly say I was, a a younger,individual going through this, I was extremely
(20:21):
diligent about crossing every t, dotting everyI, putting a period where it needed to be
splitting words up that needed to be pull itup.
I mean, the, you know, the age old DeltaAirlines or
Delta Airlines.
Things like that, but that that was across theboard.
It's so many different in so many differentways.
So to hear it from you makes it much more of a,okay, folks.
(20:45):
This is real.
And and, unfortunately, I'm sorry, to thenetwork and to my previous self that I wasn't
able to do this podcast, like, 15 years ago or12 years ago, So Yeah.
Apologies to everybody out there.
Thank you for your patience.
Here we are.
So Now that we've got kind of a the theadministrative, almost logistical background of
(21:08):
what the what's happening behind the scenes bylooking at it.
I mean, we don't have to get into the nuts andbolts.
Again, I'm not the software guy.
Matt was here.
You might really get into the the the codingaspect and this and that and whatever.
But with with, we talked before, you said thatroughly 30 airlines, they come and go.
(21:28):
Sure.
Yep.
Yeah.
Any other hiring perspective or, you know, ifthey if they're expanding, contracting Yep.
Going out of business, whatever that stuff.
As far as you what you see in the industry as aObviously, it's growth almost everywhere or not
(21:49):
necessarily growth replacement.
Some some airlines are growing.
Some are just replacing it, but as far as apilot who is just starting out trying to get a
job, whether that's a military transition folk,whether that is a a brand new, 0 to hero type
off the street.
You know, went to school, whether it's a CFIwho's busted their butt and is now finally
(22:10):
getting to the point where they can get a job.
It's growth for everybody there.
Whether the airline is growing in size or notdoesn't necessarily affect them getting a job.
What's your kind of crystal ball?
So I and I understand crystal ball's mind wassmashed years ago.
Yep.
What do you see kind of the the trend and wherethings are going right now, especially through
(22:32):
the application process alone.
Yeah.
So historically, you know, we it was notuncommon to see kinda, cargo slash freight
being 180 out with the 121 industry.
121 is good.
(22:54):
Cargo may be down.
Cargoes up.
121's down.
The you know, that was historically speaking.
Today, there are again, there's so muchturnover happening right now.
That the faucet, at least today, is on, justabout everywhere.
(23:16):
And but one of the dynamics that that'simposing on some of the other industries.
Right?
You've got the mainline carriers and theiraffiliated regionals today, they are funding
and throwing big money at their regionalaffiliates to try to retain or attract pilots,
(23:43):
to either go there and or stay there.
Everything from hiring bonuses to signingbonuses to retention bonuses.
And it's unprecedented.
Right?
So, you know, you and I, if we backed up 10years and and asked, you know, what does a
regional pay as a new hire, you know, typicallyit was much lower than even what we experienced
(24:07):
in the airline industry, which was awfully low.
So a lot of that's changed, to the point thatyou have some regionals that are, you know,
better part of paying a hundred bucks an hourto new hires.
In addition to signing bonuses, things likethat.
So I mentioned all that to say when you startlooking at, how do I get my foot in the
(24:28):
industry get going, get that experience?
Just know that, the opportunities are there,but when you start to look at some of the
different industries that don't have thatsupporting financial force behind it, sometimes
those bonuses and or pay rates really can'tcompete with what's being thrown at some of
(24:53):
those regional industry applicants at the entrypoint.
And that's, again, It it really comes down to,you know, where you feel you're wanting to to
work in the industry.
Some, you know, we have folks that reach out tous and say, Hey.
I don't really wanna be an airline pilot.
(25:13):
You know, what do you have for 135 or 91 or,you know, things of that nature.
So but there are a lot of dynamics behind thatright now.
And, something you mentioned earlier are, youknow, our company's ebb and flow somewhere
around the, you know, the 30 company mark, butthose companies that go out of business.
(25:35):
And so, one thing you know, just curious fromme, I'll be curious to see this, you know, the
financial force behind some of these offers andbonuses what that does to some of the
companies, that don't have that financialbacking force to attract talent.
And so if it gets to the point, they can'tstaff the airplanes and or their commitments,
(26:00):
you know, what that does to them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's weird too.
Right?
Because both where we work, which separate butsimilar, in ways.
Right?
I think one of the most interesting things tome is if and to to almost take this a step
(26:21):
further and, yeah, this is more, trajectory orcrystal ball smashing.
If those companies do have a staffing issue tothe point where they no longer can meet their
commitments to their larger non wholly owned,but their larger carrier where they have their
contracts with.
(26:43):
The contracts that most part 9 1 or a 121people operate under, they will not allow for
those for the aircraft and those crew to comeon board and be stapled to the bottom or
whatever horrible thing that could happencontractually.
But there's just even if that could be apossibility, which would save people jobs,
(27:07):
there is no there's nothing in most of thecontracts that are out there to allow for that
to occur because there's no room left.
There's no room in the scope clauses to allowfor If your airline says you can have a 100,
narrow body regionals at 70 or, excuse me, 76seat regional jets that are flying for you, and
(27:28):
a carrier such as, I don't know, we'll take abig one that that is that is very dominant in
the space SkyWest who doesn't have an issuelike that.
Has, would have a a meltdown, and there's stillanother 80 aircraft from other carriers out
there who are operating they couldn't beabsorbed onto under major X Y Z Right.
(27:49):
Because there's only twin that that's just notthere's not enough space.
And they're not wholly owned and they couldjust that you it's a it would have to be a
merger purchase type thing.
Again, I don't understand all the all theinsights to that.
What I do know is just from my own contractreading and having friends at different and
(28:09):
being around the industry and reading othercontracts, is that is not that's not a player
in a lot of cases.
So if it's a smaller regional company that hascontracts that float, if they have a staffing
shortage to the point where they no longer canoperate, It's really sad, but those are those
(28:31):
people are probably gonna be out on the streetlooking for jobs, relatively quickly.
And that that's something none of us want inthis industry.
We don't want any pilots to not have jobs It isit is the reality of something that we do work
in.
In the way the way the regional carrier modelkind of has matured to this point.
It's just it it worked, but no longer works, inthe way it did in the past.
(28:52):
Not all of them.
I mean, some of them are some of them are verywell operated and have a great contractual
obligations with with much larger carriers.
I I find, the the fascinating that shoots offon a bunch of other areas that I could go into
with scope and stuff like that, but I wannastay right on the on on the application topic
(29:12):
and and kind of on a on a small on a differenttangent, but still in that in that vein.
So you're a military guy, former Harry Marinedude, which is cool.
I have a a good friend who did that as well.
And one of the things that I always am blownaway by is how we all get involved in a side
(29:37):
hustle or some part of this industry that makesno sense from what we did before.
So how did that happen for you?
Airlines marine harrier dude one day, airlineapps expert next.
How does that work?
Yeah.
My it's it's funny.
You know, it's definitely a trail of brokentears there.
So when I got out, the Marine Corps, like Isaid, most of mainline regionals weren't hiring
(30:04):
at that point.
So over to Lockheed, And, you know, just somedabbling, some helping out with database stuff,
website stuff, that evolved and, Eventually onto, there was a consulting firm called check 6
that's out there.
And, you know, a group of mostly former, hightempo operators in the in the military that
(30:32):
bring on that that high risk consultingperspective.
So anyway, working for them, again, a databaseproduct that, that we built and deployed
worldwide wound up managing that program fully.
And, when I moved on to the, to the airlineworld, found myself in a recruiting role,
(30:55):
working with, within pilot recruiting managerfor my company.
And so that was one of the, initialopportunities to reach out and work with
airline apps on, you know, some needsrequirements that we had that were company
specific.
And, through those conversations, you know, iteventually just got to the point where, you
(31:15):
know, there was the the offer to come over andand help over here and Gosh, whatever that was,
8, 9 years ago.
I've been here ever since.
And, great, great opportunity, great company,can't say enough of good things about it.
Plato's wonderful to work for.
So and that's that brings me kind of my nextpoint one of the things that makes us different
(31:41):
from a lot of the other companies out there,you when you reach out to help for, to help
with us, You know, we're not just a softwarecompany.
That's certainly one of the things we do.
Lots of developers, most of us here have somesort of computer experience in some form or
fashion.
But when you reach out for help to us, It'simportant to know that, you're not just getting
(32:08):
an anonymous tech support response.
You know, we're a company of software folksthat are also military pilots, civilian pilots,
part 91 pilots, part 91 k for actional 135,121.
Really the the full gamut and the fullperspective.
And that's important because, you know, thevariety and the audience of those that reach
(32:33):
out to us for help.
And the same thing from a company'sperspective, right, when an airline reaches out
for help or fractional company reaches out forhelp.
It's important to them to know that weunderstand the background and the needs that
they have coming from that particular focus.
So it's, on average, I I think we respond andanswer, 1000, probably somewhere 4 or 5000
(32:56):
emails in phone call every year from theapplicants.
So it's, it's really busy.
Well, that I think then we're gonna have to,we're gonna have to push for airline apps that
have at TPNX.
This next year at Mini.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Right?
Shame them up there and answer every singlequestion that they have because I remember
being one of those guys, and I do remembergetting a response, email.
(33:20):
This is pre your existence at airline apps.
But I do remember getting, a response.
Again, though, it was the the website to me.
It was just like, okay.
I go to this thing.
Algorithmator of of that nation.
And I'm like, okay.
What where what it goes on, behind the scenes?
Really interesting.
(33:41):
I think the the last, thing that I reallywanted to, to bring up is now we We've seen
other companies and and other aspects ofdifferent airlines who who have their own site
service, stuff like that.
(34:01):
What does it take to really recruit It soundsso weird, but recruit an airline to come and
say, we, man, we really love your product.
We want to entrust you with this processbecause it is such a Alright.
It it's a huge deal.
It it it makes or break the airline if youreally look at it from the perspective of
Right.
We're hiring not only safe sound excellentoperators of our of our airplanes, but also
(34:27):
these brand ambassadors take our airline to thenext level.
We might not be so much talking about theregional community because of the turnover
there, but some of the bigger carriers, notonly just majors, but some carriers that can
become, the final destination for a lot offolks.
How does one recruit an airline like that?
Yeah.
It's, I it's a great question, and it haschanged and shifted, you know, over the last
(34:53):
probably 5 years.
You know, historically, you traditionally had apilot at that company at a minimum that was in
charge of pilot hiring is, you know, typicallythe way that worked.
Which is important.
Right?
Same reason you wouldn't have a pilot hiringdoctors.
(35:14):
You need a pilot that hires pilots knows whatthey're looking for.
And to your point, knows what that brandambassador looks like.
Who's a good fit for our company?
Who's not?
And, all of those considerations are reallybuilt into their recruiting process, which
varies from company to company?
Over the last Again, probably 5 to 7 years.
(35:40):
We kinda seen a migration of the pilotrecruiting departments at the various companies
shift out from under, either a flight opsleadership or flight ops umbrella into human
resources and or talent acquisition.
Now that won't mean anything to most, you know,pilots that are just applying for a job.
(36:04):
But it it's having profound impacts in theaviation industry.
So when, when things shift over to the HRTAumbrella, there are, processes, procedures,
tools that they have in place really for, youknow, the rest of the company.
Everybody's got things.
They do great.
(36:24):
Things they don't do so great.
We do pilot hiring.
Great.
We don't do the other, positions with thecompanies.
So when companies have other tools andprocesses, for those other areas of the
company.
And then pilot hiring is moved under thatumbrella.
(36:46):
Sometimes there are moves and initiatives toessentially absorb pilot hiring into their
tools and processes.
So, obviously that's always, you know, just oneof the threats of what we do.
And then you have companies that, will use usand integrate us with their other tools and
(37:08):
processes.
And that's an important point to bring up too.
Occasionally, doesn't happen a lot, butoccasionally, we'll have an reach out to us and
say, Hey.
I, you know, I was talking to such and suchrecruiter who, mentioned they couldn't see me
in their system.
Well, when we do the research and get tolooking at what is happening.
(37:28):
What they're not seeing is that applicant intheir other third party system.
And so, that's typically at the smallerregional level, you know, where we see
something like that.
But that's just the challenge of, the processbeing moved under the HRTA umbrella, especially
(37:49):
when Again, there's not, a pilot or group ofpilots that are in charge of the pilot hiring
process.
And, definitely makes it challenging.
It's one of the just one of the threats youconstantly have to deal with.
Yeah.
I knowing and having done some of this now andseeing it definitely seems like, there is
(38:11):
they're almost doing an integrated mix ofpilots helping HR and HR helping pilots.
And some of it, some places are figuring itout, so some places have it more, lockdown to a
Yeah.
A certain a certain cadence, but in my opinion,the the biggest help is not having to sort
(38:32):
through or build your own system to sortthrough thousands of applications when it's
much easier to outsource that to an expert andan expert, not only on the software side, but
experts on what a pilot looks like smells likeall that stuff because Yeah.
You can you can build an application from an HRperspective that will meet all the boxes you
(38:59):
want checked.
But the reality is you may be getting a productthat shows up for an interview that is nothing
like you wanted, as a pilot.
They may fit very well as somebody who'sworking an above wing job or blowing job or an
office job, but they don't meet the linerequirements and the crew, aspect, whether,
(39:20):
yeah, it I could see where it'd be almost thesame in the, the in flight service community
for those in the 121 world that deal withpassengers.
Well, that that's that's what I mean, there's alot of, stuff that we could unpack further
there.
And more trade secrets, that would be superinteresting.
But I think the big takeaway that I that I wantfolks who are listening to this, especially put
(39:45):
people who are just in that transitional phaseor in the beginning phases.
It's never too early to start putting togetheryour application.
And if you have an issue of any kind or youneed help, reach out to the folks at airline
apps, they're there to help you.
And they're there to help you quickly.
They they deal with this all the time.
They've seen it all go go and ask thisquestion.
(40:07):
So if I'm one of those individuals, how how canI find you guys besides airline apps.com?
I think I think that's synonymous nowadayswith, in addition, but, other ways that they
can reach out to you and the folks at airlineapps.
Yeah.
There there's obviously a contact page on ourwebsite, but really supported airline apps.com,
come straight in.
(40:28):
And, we will assign the support requestsappropriately depending on the, the topic.
But our, you know, our support times, wetypically most emails get answered somewhere
within an hour or 2.
Phone calls are a little more challengingbecause you might imagine the rings off the
hook.
So I would encourage you to try to reach out,via email first.
(40:51):
Those get answered a little more quickly, but,again, because of the the support software that
we use and how we can assign and route thosesupport requests.
And, but yeah, don't hesitate to reach out tous anytime.
That's what we're here for is, to make iteasier.
Now with that, I will say You know,occasionally, we get the, Hey, how should I
answer this question?
(41:12):
And, you know, that's something we can't do,right?
So, because if somebody doesn't get hired, wecan't have, have the reason being, well, he
told me to put that there.
So that's why I didn't get hired.
So you know, we'll walk you through the, thesystem.
And if you got a question on what a section isasking, what it's looking for, we can certainly
(41:32):
help you with that, but definitely don'thesitate to reach out.
We're always here for them.
I want everybody to rewind 30 seconds andlisten that last whole piece again.
Because when I used to do the interview prepstuff, I'd tell people, if I had a one sheet
page with the 10 questions they're gonna askand the 10 answers to give, and I can guarantee
(41:53):
your unit hired.
I'm gonna charge you $10,000.
Don't get hired, I'll give you 11,000 backbecause I'm still gonna make 9 out of 10 to,
get hired with $90,000 in my pocket.
The reality is it's not how it works.
You have to learn how to communicate, andairline apps is telling you how to be a
communicator on paper.
By giving you the framework, telling you to goout and get that guidance that you could that
(42:16):
you can use.
And then I will always go off and talk aboutthe interview prep and all that other nonsense.
But Yeah.
Again, it's supported airline apps.com.
Easiest way to get in touch with the folksthere.
If you have a question, that's not relating tohow should I answer this question?
I bet you I bet you they can help you.
If you need to fill learn how to write yourname in the name block or your address.
(42:37):
They'll tell you how to fill that out.
Other than that, you're on your own.
Go go figure it out and and get that that help.
Shane, I'm really I was really happy that wefinally got to do this.
I want me to to bumping into each othersomewhere, not on the internet or in person.
And I can, treat you to a frosty beverage ofyour choice, no matter where that is.
(43:02):
And then, for all those of you out therelistening to the show, we've got a lot more
great stuff coming up.
In this world and in the real world, TPNX is anApril, 3rd week in April, we're gonna start,
ramping that up.
These are just, you know, the little remindersout there.
So market calendars, hopefully, love.
Shane or airline apps and a lot of other hostsin guests out there, excuse me, guests.
(43:25):
We're the host.
A lot of guests out there in Minneapolis tocome and answer all your questions.
And as always, if you need to get a hold ofMatt or I, it's, hey, guys.
Out of network.
Dotcom.
Apply safe, everybody.
Keep the shiny side up, and the grease sidedown.
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