October 1, 2024 • 47 mins
In this episode, Adam talks with Tammy Barlette, a mental performance coach and former A-10 pilot, about the role of mental training in aviation. Tammy shares her journey from emphasizing the importance of mental skills for pilots. They cover techniques like self-talk, checklists, and handling perfectionism, and discuss how mental training enhances pilot performance. Tammy offers advice for aspiring pilots, stressing education and resilience, and explores integrating mental techniques in flight schools. She also shares how these skills can be applied to daily life and how to connect with her and Crosscheck Mental Performance.
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(00:00):
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Network, hi.
It's Adam again.
I am joined by a guest today that I found to befascinating.
So I reached out to her on LinkedIn and shesaid, sure.
I would love to come on and talk to the pilotsof the pilot network.
Her name is Tammy Barlett.
She is a mental performance coach, former a tenpilot in the United States Air Force.
(01:24):
She taught me a lot in just the hour and a halfor so that we chatted, both during the podcast
before and afterwards.
But going to her website and checking outeverything that she's done in her past life as
a as an air force pilot, but also what she'sdoing now to benefit basically anybody who
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needs that extra edge.
And I think we all kind of do need a little bitof that extra edge.
So you can, go check her out atcrosscheckmentalperformance.com.
She's the CEO and founder of CrossCheck MentalPerformance Coaching.
And she gave me a lot of insight in some ofthose basic foundational steps, to kind of get
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you in the right mindset to grow and move inthe direction that you wanna move in to become
not only the best aviator, but best person youcan.
I I know probably a lot of us understand thismental performance coaching aspect.
It's something that we've looked at and knowlittle bits and pieces about, but we get kind
of in the details, a little bit here into theintroduction of it so you can go and experience
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and explore it for yourself.
But why listen to me?
Let's listen to Tammy.
Tammy, thank you so much for joining us.
I'm with Tammy Barlett.
She is a very interesting and unique person inaviation.
I know I say that often, but in this case, wehave never actually had a woman fighter pilot
(02:54):
on who then became a whole bunch of otherstuff.
And your background, it was truly amazing whenI read your story, how you got to where you
were because, you and I have a similar,background, through ROTC.
But instead of me talking about it, let's talkto you and see how you got to where you are in
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your life.
Thanks again for joining me today on thepodcast.
And how did you get this start into becoming afighter pilot and all the other stuff you do,
with with your speaking engagements and allthat.
Yeah.
You're welcome.
Thank you for having me.
I really appreciate it.
As far as how did I even get here?
Well, it all starts back when I was in highschool, and I was going to college full time
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instead of high school my last 2 years.
And I was interested in the military, but Igrew up in Minnesota, and I didn't know anyone
in the military.
And there just happened to be a guy in the navywho was in one of my classes.
And I said, hey, I I'm thinking about themilitary, but I don't know anything about it.
And I was thinking about joining the Navy.
And he said to me, that's awesome.
(03:57):
But I'm going to recommend that you join theAir Force.
And I was like, oh, that's interesting.
Why?
And it was probably 1993 at this point.
And he said to me, well, and this is hisversion, they're the cleanest, they treat their
people the best, and it's probably the bestplace for women at this point as far as how
they are treating their people.
(04:18):
And I thought, oh, that's that's interesting.
Okay.
So when I went to the University of Minnesota,I asked if they had Air Force ROTC, and sure
enough, they did.
So I just walked myself in there and said, hey,can you tell me about this program?
And, of course, one of the first things theyask you, and this makes sense, but it was
unexpected to me because I was just there toserve my country, they said, well, do you wanna
(04:38):
be a pilot?
And I paused, and I thought, Yeah, I want to dothat.
I had never thought about it.
I didn't know any pilots, let alone femalepilots.
I wasn't around aviation.
And I did grow up believing I could be whateverI wanted to be.
So when they said that, I was like, well, yeah,let's do that.
And I went through ROTC, and I took all theirtests, and I got a pilot slot.
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And I ended up showing up at Laughlin Air ForceBase in 1999 for pilot training, surrounded by
mostly men with engineering degrees who wantedto fly since they were 3.
So I did not necessarily feel like I fit in,but I knew that I earned my place there, so I
was just gonna work really hard and get throughit.
And I ended up going into the t 38, so I was onthe fighter bomber track.
(05:24):
And then when I graduated, they gave me anassignment as an instructor pilot in the
T-thirty 7, which is not everyone's idealchoice, but it was honestly the best job they
could have put me in because that's where Ilearned that I love to teach.
I absolutely love it.
So I taught in the t 37 for over 3 years, andthen I went on to fly the a 10.
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I was at Tucson, went to Korea, went came backto Tucson.
But then I had cervical spine reconstruction in2006.
So I transitioned into the Air National Guardfull time, flying the m q one, and eventually
the m q nine.
This is also where I went to weapons school.
I was in the first class that they had for m qones and m q nines.
And then I got a waiver or exception to policyfor my spine, and I went back into the t 38 at
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Laughlin Air Force Base as a full timereservist for the last six and a half years of
my career.
And this is really where I learned this iswhere I kinda developed the idea for my current
business, and I'll get to that in a second.
But I after I retired, I decided to go intoprofessional speaking.
And this came from my husband.
He was like, you really need to do this.
And at first, he told me that, and I thought,you're crazy.
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That's that sounds horrifying.
But then I realized that we needed to get morepeople up there sharing their stories,
especially women.
There's a lot of women who quietly go off intothe night and don't share their stories, and
then we were just not sharing our experiences.
So I decided to do that.
And as I was doing that, I was thinking aboutmy speech and how did I get where I got?
And I realized that I had been, you know, doingmental performance training with the students I
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was flying with a lot and not even knowing it,that's exactly the training I was doing because
I learned that even though I gave sick andrudder instruction, it was really important for
me to get their head out of their own waybefore I could actually teach them effectively
and be you know, make it really a powerfulinstruction versus trying to deal with what's
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going on in their mind all the time.
And so I'd been teaching that without evenrealizing it.
So I started studying that for the last six anda half years.
I studied the mental performance training forathletes.
I shifted into the aviation world, and I'vecreated a course.
So now in addition to the professionalspeaking, which centers around how everyone can
benefit from mental performance training, Ialso have a specific course for pilots that is
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online for 4 weeks.
So that's kind of like a sum of the last 25years.
That's a pretty quick summation of 25 years ofcareer work to get to where you are and doing
mental performance training is now yournewfound career.
But I want to back up for a second because Ithink there's something that, a lot of people
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have a mis guided thought process on when theyfirst start into aviation is that you have to
be in a technical career field or really goodat math, to get to become a pilot.
And I jokingly tell people, I said, well, ifyou can do basic addition and basic, division,
you're probably gonna be just fine and maybesome multiplication in there as well.
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I agree.
Because you have a bachelor's in science ingerontology.
Yeah.
I have a bachelor's of arts in politicalscience, which I was jokingly was told polycyte
to fly.
And I said, hey, that makes perfect sense.
I like to read the newspaper.
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So let's make this work and I'll go flyairplanes for a living.
I didn't realize there's going to be a lot moreother work that I had to put in to go ahead and
get myself a pilot slot.
But you decided on going a different route.
And you realized when you got to pilot trainingthat you're surrounded by a bunch of, men who
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were, like you said, engineering degrees, somesort of hard science stuff, going airplanes.
How did you end up deciding on that that courseof study?
And then was it the whole was the whole timethey're going, well, I really wanna fly
airplanes.
So as long as I get good grades and provemyself in ROTC, I'll be fine.
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Or was it you had a genuine interest in the inthe field of study that you're undertaking?
Well, I'll share the middle version of thestory, not super short, not super long because
it is kind of interesting.
I showed up at ROTC, and they said, oh, withyour GPA, we can get you a scholarship.
No problem.
I thought, wonderful.
That's great.
And all of a sudden, you know, the colonelcalls me into his office, and he's he says now
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this is months later when we actually startedschool, and he said, you realize you're
probably not going to get the scholarship.
Right?
And I said, what?
You they pretty much told me I was guaranteed.
They said, well, yes.
They they are not giving, scholarships forpsychology anymore.
You have to be an engineer, a meteorologist, ornurse because I was planning on going to get a
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psychology degree.
And I did not want to study something I wasn'tinterested in because I thought if I don't like
the military and I get out, I'm gonna be stuckwith a degree that I don't even want to use.
And so I they had a program at the Universityof Minnesota where you can essentially create
your own degree, And I absolutely love theelderly, like, so it's really as a passion.
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And I thought I have always thought that theywere just not kind of mistreated in, in our
society.
And so I studied gerontology, which is thesocial and psychological study of aging, so
that if their force didn't work out for me, Ihad something I was interested in.
I mean, my internship was as an activitiesassistant, a retirement community.
And I loved it.
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So that's how I got that degree and ended up,you know, with pilot training going to pilot
training.
You know, I, it's funny that you mentioned,that as well, like having a, an interesting or
a degree that's not necessarily out thereacross the board.
When I went to pilot training, in a, a yearahead of me, I went to a, assignment night And
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I was brand new.
I don't even think I had started yet.
I was probably a casual Lieutenant, which forthose of you out there, don't know what that
means.
You basically are waiting around to go to pilottraining and you do kind of an odd job at the
base.
And I, for those of you know what casual statusis, I was a casual lieutenant at Vance Air
Force Base instead of having a good deal likein Europe or Japan or somewhere cool.
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I decided I wanted to be right in the thick ofit, which didn't help me at all, but that's
neither here nor there.
What was, interesting is the guy who finishednumber 1 in his class that I went to this
assignment night was a concert pianist fromduke.
He studied music and basically was thisincredible pianist.
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And he played that night and he was as good asyou can imagine.
And he finished number 1 in his class and hepicked the, for those of you who know what this
is, the C9, which was a good deal.
In fact, it was probably the best deal going inthe, on the heavy track at the time.
And he was the last person to get it.
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So he got to basically pick what he wanted.
So we're, we're dispelling a myth out therethat you don't need to be a technical degree to
go become a pilot in the air forcespecifically.
And most times, if you study something that youreally enjoy and do well in and you like and
you have a passion for, you're going to end upor you have a talent for, I should say, you're
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going to end up doing better grade wise, whichwill give you a better shot to actually get the
coveted pilot slots that are out there.
Because as we both Tammy and I know, the AirForce goes in waves.
They need pilots and then they need none.
They need pilots and they need none.
So you you might be in a very competitive, timeera in your life when you're competing against
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other people to get those pilot slots.
And one of the best ways to do that is is picka field of study that you actually really enjoy
and that you have a talent for so you can dowell and have a great GPA.
So just that that's like a little sidebar, alittle educational, thing for all of those all
of you out there who are going into ROTC orstudying in school and wanna go to OTS
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afterwards or whatever the case is.
Just something that both of us, I think, didbecause I like to read the paper, so I went and
did.
And you have a much more, noble cause in lifeand, and studied the, the the science of aging
and have something that to this day, youprobably still know more about that field than
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I know about my chosen field because I don'treally pay any attention to political science
anymore of any kind.
But I think when we studied something incollege and then we go on to do our our career
field, especially flying, we get exposed to alot of other facets of what aviation is.
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I I'm working on a process of of how to takethe idea of checklists and and apply them to
other things in life and not just, hey, writeout a checklist and, you know, your to do list
or whatever your task list, but to make it moreinstrumental or not even instrumental is not
necessarily the right term, but to make it partof who you are so that when you do something,
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you do something nearly the same every time tomake it just a very disciplined, organized
process that you can then start to excel at.
Because when you do have and I think this iswhat people don't understand about aviation
outside of the career field is when you arewhen you do the fundamental stuff over and over
and over again, and you do it to the pointwhere you have it memorized when you are thrown
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a curve ball or you have something that happenson the outside that breaks into that checklist.
And it's different than what you've experiencedbefore.
The fundamental building blocks and thetraining that you have are allowed to flourish,
and you can excel at handling an emergency orthings that just are something that you've
never seen, which in aviation, you get quiteoften.
And I think that kind of rolls into the idea ofmental performance training and what you've
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done after aviation, how to best conquer thosethose outside issues.
Because almost everybody can run a checklist,but not everybody can run a checklist and then
do the other stuff that comes with it, afterthe fact or when something that's unforeseen
occurs in the, on the flight deck or outsidejust in general life.
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So how is how did you end up taking what youlearned, like you said, in your training and
throughout your career, and then saying, youknow what, I'm gonna apply this and become a
mental performance coach?
Well, I mean, I think one of the biggest thingsis that you see, you know, I guess I said
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earlier, our mind gets our own way, and you youhit on something already when you mentioned the
whole checklist idea.
Because having a checklist, especially one thatyou're familiar with, is useful because it kind
of frees up some of your brain so you canengage it with other things.
And I think the best example I can give thateveryone can almost relate to, unless they
don't cook, but if you have a recipe that'sbrand new and you're cooking it, you're, like,
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referencing it constantly.
It's kind of a checklist.
Right?
And but it's a lot of work.
But if you have a recipe now that's memorized,you can make that.
I'll it's so much easier.
It might take the same amount of time as therecipe that you don't know, but your mind can
be doing and engaged in other things whileyou're doing the recipe.
And that's the idea behind that checklist.
And it definitely is mental performance.
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I mean, you talk about having a degree that'sunrelated.
That's kind of where we started.
That applies too because when I showed up atpilot training and I didn't feel like I fit in,
I could very have I could very easily havethought, I don't belong here.
What am I doing here?
I can't do this.
And let those things build up in my mindbecause I would go to class.
And when I first showed up, I'm like, what theheck are hydraulics?
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I have no idea what that is.
And I could sit there and go, well, I'm such anidiot.
Or I can just go, well, I maybe I should knowthis, but I don't.
So I'm gonna go ask someone and know that I canlearn these things.
So it's how are you approaching it?
What is the perspective?
That's those are 2 kind of baseline mentalperformance training things, and they're
applicable in life.
It's it's not just aviation.
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It's just extremely important in aviation.
You know, if there's a golfer out there usingmental performance training, a pilot absolutely
should be using it.
But it's something everyone can use, which iswhat I talk about in my keynotes when I do go
out and give those.
When when you started the course, you geared ittowards pilots and aviation.
We we can get talking about how the idea ofexpanding it later on.
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But when you, when you built it for aviators,who were you targeting?
Yeah, it's interesting because some peopleoften assume I'm targeting the new struggling
pilot.
They are absolutely someone that I can help,but it has absolutely nothing to do with how
many hours you have.
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There are there are 2 specific groups, I think,that can benefit from it.
The first group is anyone who's struggling.
And I have had 0 hour pilots take the course,and I've had someone with 28 1000 hours take
the course.
I had a 5000 hour CFI tell me it was the bestbirthday present he gave himself because it's
all about where are you mentally.
There's things people deal with in aviationthat they need to get out of their way.
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How do you get over mistakes when you makethem?
How do you not be a perfectionist?
Because actually perfectionism is very harmfulin aviation.
How do you decrease your stress and andincrease your focus?
Anyone can benefit from that.
And so anyone who wants to improve in thoseareas or feels are struggling in those areas,
and a lot of times they'll define it asconfidence when there's other things impacting
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their confidence that, like like, theperfectionism and the focus.
The other group is anyone who understands thepower of mental performance training because
you could look at my resume and think, I didn'tneed this.
Look where I got.
I flew the a 10, but I could have absolutelybenefit from it if I understood the power of
it.
So anyone who understands the power of it andwants to elevate and level up from wherever
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they're at now, it can benefit them as well.
They don't have to actually be struggling tobenefit from it, but they do have to believe in
the power of your mind, or they won't do thework because you have to put the work in.
That and that was exactly where I was gonna askthe next question about if in obviously, we
don't have don't have time to get into all thespecifics and stuff like this.
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But when you are talking about the strugglingstudent versus this versus the 5000 hour CFI or
or or greater hour pilot who might just behaving anxiety issues or battling that
perfectionism, something that I do, I used todo quite often and realize that that was,
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actually hindering me from getting better at myprofession at things outside of that.
I think when, when I look at that, I have ahard time wrapping my head around that there's
drills out there or, or the ability to learnthat now I I've been exposed to it over the
years that now I understand that there is waysto do that.
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Just what's an example of something that in,like in your course that somebody can take as a
drill or there's something that they can workon, just broad based to give some people an
idea of what that's like to kind of start toshift that mindset in in in your, mental
performance training concept.
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You're right.
There's there's lots of there's lots of things.
And this is actually why I offer the money backguarantee because people can't wrap their head
around what is it that you do?
How are you actually gonna increase myconfidence?
So one small example, and this this usuallycomes in the end of the course, but is a list.
We create a list where we write down everythingthat is stressing us out on the on one side of
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the list.
And once you're done with that, you make asecond column on the right hand side of the
paper, and you move anything over that youactually have direct control over.
And there are very little things, our thoughts,our emotions, our reactions, like those things
we have control over.
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But there's lots of other things we don't havecontrol over that we stress about, and we use a
lot of mental energy.
So then once you move those few things overthere that you actually control directly, like,
how you respond to things, that's that'ssomething you can control.
You rip the paper in half and you take thelist, and what's left on the left hand side are
all these things that you worry about you can'tcontrol.
And there's something in our brain when we,like, rip it up or burn it or something that
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that actually affects it.
Now it seems a little bit kinda like, really?
There's lots of small tools like that that areare helpful, but it's hard to, you know, give
the the broad brush idea because there's somany little things that I do.
And the thing I say at the end with everyone isI ask I ask in the beginning that everyone try
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the ideas and the concepts and the techniquesI'm offering at least once, and then because
there's several things, and then walk away withthe things that work best for them.
But a lot of it, the baseline of it all comesdown to our thoughts.
Because regardless of whether you speak toyourself out loud or not, we are talking to
ourselves and listening to ourselves all daylong.
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And it actually matters what you are saying toyourself inside of your own head.
It affects your subconscious.
And that's a lot of the study I did on thebrain and why it matters.
One of the things that as we were talkingbefore we started to record and over time, you
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don't do this on your, just on your own.
You've also partnered with a lot of people tokind of help expand folks' capability to have
access to, mental performance training whilewhile they're in training.
This isn't just, hey, you're gonna do thiseither before you start flying or you're doing
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it right here sometime in your career.
This is kind of a constant effort and work,that you have to put in.
But also, you've partnered with other people tohelp, increase this capability to lots of
people, like instructors, flight school, stufflike that.
Can you kind of explain how this has beeninfused in some training apparatus and syllabus
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or syllabi, not just in the likes of me takingan at home course and doing it on my own, but
actually working with it in that kind of thatthat that structure.
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So with instructors directly, oftentimes,what's happening is I have instructors
referring their students to me, and the idea isto make it easier for the instructor to teach
the student.
Because not only do I teach mental performancetechniques, but I also teach them some kind of
ground prep study way ways to study ways toprepare for their flight so they can be more
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ready, actually, you know, prepared for theflight itself and mentally prepared.
And that way, the instructor is not spendingtheir time in the air repeating maneuver over
and over again when it's not actually effectivebecause the student's in their own head, and
they probably should just land at this point.
So I help them.
I help them manage their students by workingwith their students and giving them tools to
get through those struggles.
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As far as flight schools go, what we're doingright now is, it's in the course is an option.
It's not in directly in the syllabus, becausethe thing about this course is that if you are
not interested or invested or think this willwork, it's not going to work.
So I don't want people taking the class whoare, like, what, this is so stupid and making
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me take this.
What happens is usually a student gets to thepoint where they're so committed to aviation,
but they just the instructors don't know whatto do with them anymore because they're just in
their own head, they have so much anxiety, theycan fly, but they freak out on check rides.
They send those students to they they say, hey,we recommend this course, And then they come
take the course, and the results have beenreally inspiring and and just makes make me so
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happy for these people because they're sodedicated to this goal.
The other students it's good for is, you know,when there's someone performing well, but the
instructor, let's say, at the flight schoolnotices that they're beating themselves up
because that's what I did a lot of.
I was performing fine, but I was alwaysthinking I was one ride away from failing out
because I didn't have my head necessarily inthe right place.
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I worked really hard, and I didn't give up.
So that's why I was successful.
But it could have been a lot easier for me if Ihad had these tools.
So then the school will send them my way.
We don't just send everyone through becauseagain, they have to be invested in this kind of
training.
Because there's things, you know, I do delveinto a little bit of meditation and explain
why.
Because I was one at first, I was, like,meditation.
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And then once I learned more about meditation,the science behind it, I was, like, well, I
know it's important, but I just didn't think Icould do it because I my mind is all over the
place all the time.
But then I learned more about it, and I learnedthat that's okay.
Your mind can be all over the place.
It's just about bringing it back and trainingit to bring it back so you can train your mind
to come back.
And then once you do that, things like whenyou're in the air and you have a struggle,
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you've trained your mind to come back insteadof just run away.
And that's kind of some of the keys behind allof this in IT.
That's what I teach.
When as you talked about this, I think back towhen I went through pilot training, and I wish
you had been around then.
I, I was one of those, I beat myself up.
I did not have the work ethic or effort levelto put in to hit my optimum level of
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performance, mainly because one, I just kind oflazy at the time, but 2 was if I didn't
naturally get something right away, the themonumental effort that I'd have to put in to
learn something was challenging for me to do.
I didn't have the greatest study habits fromcollege.
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And and before that, what I what I see myselfbenefiting from greatly, especially back then,
would have been okay, let go of some of thesemisconceptions of yourself that you can learn
how to study, you can learn how to learnbetter.
And then also that there is no reason to beatyourself up.
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I used to hang on to stuff after I failed,quote, unquote, for way too long.
And one of the things that both of us know iswhen you do screw up, when you're flying an
airplane, which by the way, if you have juststarted your journey, you will do many times
throughout your career is the, that is over anddone with you need to be, that needs to go by
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the wayside immediately and you need to move onto the next thing.
And you have to actually train yourself to getgood at that.
And, we were talking about golf beforehandbecause that's what my big thing that I'm
trying to get better at.
And one of the things that I've learned isbasically a thing called the post shot routine,
but I've started to employ it in everything inmy life when I mess up, when I, when I, when I
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don't do something with my kids, right.
Or, you know, I, I'd say something to my wifethat's necessarily not productive in our lives.
I kind of take a second break and think aboutwhat just happened and bury it.
Let it go and say, okay, you know, it's done.
There's nothing I can do to change that.
Now it's how do I move forward and move on tothe next phase of whatever my day is, my life
(29:32):
is like.
And I think stuff like this, that that's notvery easy to do.
And by the way, even if you get good at it,you're still gonna have moments where you're
not.
And this is the kind of thing that I think canhelp a lot of students and a lot of pilots out
there who are struggling to hit the next level,especially.
Like, I I think of this as people who aretrying to achieve, that that next that level up
(29:55):
in aviation.
But, you know, whatever that might be, youknow, becoming a weapons school instructor or a
captain at an airline as, as a very youngindividual who doesn't have a lot of
experience.
This is the kind of stuff that gives you thatedge that, that over not necessarily the
competition, but just over your own self doubt.
And that is something that I can I completelysee as a as just in it in and of itself, that
(30:23):
being a huge benefit to anybody out there who,can use that kind of thing?
And and by the way, there it's very hard to doon your own.
Trust me.
I've tried to do it for 25 years, and it'staken me 25 years to figure out this is kind of
the shortcut to do it in, instead of 25 years,get it done in 25 days.
(30:43):
And, you have a, a big leg up on yourself andbeing able to move forward.
One of the other things, as we were talkingearlier, is you, you say it helps obviously in
aviation.
And we both know how that is.
It's just, it's very pertinent.
It's very pertinent to listeners of the pod andthe people part of the network.
(31:05):
But the way I see it is this is for all aspectsof your life.
There's so much more out there than aviationbecause after a while, even if you fly a 10s or
you're flying an a 330 or whatever you areflying, the job becomes a job after a while and
(31:26):
you have the rest of your life to live you dothat work.
So you can go live the rest of your life, playgolf, be with your kids, start a business,
whatever it might be.
Give me just a quick perspective on how you seethis being able to engage in the rest of your
life and growing you as a person, not just apilot.
(31:49):
Right.
Well, a lot of the tools we use, I Ispecifically in the aviation course is I'm
framing it so people can put into aviationbecause not everyone has the ability to take
the content and shove it into where they theywant it to be.
But the content, like you're saying, applies toeveryone and and everything.
So I'm actually creating a course that's a nonaviation course.
(32:10):
And some of the things that are we can talkabout is perfectionism, you know, and this this
applies to everyone, right?
When I was a little girl, my mom wouldintroduce me as her little perfectionist and
I'd smile and be all proud.
Oh my, that's terrible.
Perfectionism is so bad.
So research shows that the highest achievers inany given field are only moderate
(32:32):
perfectionists, and those with the highestlevels of perfectionism are only moderate
achievers because the anxiety they feel overmaking mistake stops them from taking timely
action.
And one thing I always used to say to mystudents, kinda like you mentioned is there's
no perfect flight.
The only difference between you and me is howbig the mistakes are and how many we make, and
(32:53):
that goes for life as well.
You know?
And one thing we hit on big time is is failure.
And you addressed this too, but failure is notexclusive to aviation.
Failure applies to everything.
And what I try and teach people is that youneed to develop a mindset of curiosity around
failure.
Yeah.
Does it suck?
Yeah.
Feel the emotions, deal with the emotions,don't shove them down.
(33:16):
Actually, let it out because you you wouldn'tgo run a race with a weight vest.
Right?
So you have to get those emotions and thoughtsand crap off of you before you push forward.
But once you do that, dig through that failureand figure out what you can learn from it.
Most people, what they do is they carry aroundwhat I say a bowl of crap that that is their
failure.
And they either try and hide it behind theirback or they're going, oh, my gosh, look at
(33:39):
this that I did, you know, thinking, okay, Ican't forget this failure because I want to
learn from it.
It's really important.
Well, here's the deal.
You strain out that bowl of crap and get rid ofthe crap.
There's gonna be some gems in there.
Gems of information are things that you canlearn, and you don't need to walk around that
bowl of crap.
You you wanna take the gems and then sharethose with other people.
(34:01):
Say, hey, you know, I learned this.
You wanna let failure inform you, not defineyou.
And so the best story I can I can give you tohelp explain that, and non aviaries can apply
this too, is I I asked 2 different studentsabout, you know, what's the worst thing they
(34:21):
did when they're flying?
And student a says, well, yeah.
I had a tail strike.
You know, I hit the tail on on landing, and itwas awful.
I can't believe I did that.
It was I'm just I'm such a bad pilot.
I probably shouldn't even be flying.
I don't know what I'm thinking.
So that's student a.
Student b says to me, well, I had a tailstrike, and I learned that when I do x, y
(34:46):
happens.
So I don't do x anymore.
And they they use the failure in their or themistake, if you wanna say it that way, to
inform them, not to define them because we willall make mistakes.
And what are you gonna take away from it?
I think when I hear stories like that andhaving been an interview coach, it's one thing
(35:07):
where we talk about taking your mistakes andusing them to learn for yourself and then for
others as well.
Bring it back to the squadron and bring it backto your colleagues, whatever the case might be.
But the real critical piece there is thatlearning for yourself first, because it's, it's
really hard to go back and teach others.
(35:30):
Both of us having been instructors to teachothers something unless you've either a
experience it for yourself or B, you've seenothers experience it and really internalize it
and understand it well enough to be able to goout and teach it.
And when we have those mistakes that we'vemade, and they resonate, like you said, you
know, you got this bowl of crap, just like, letit be there.
(35:55):
Understand what it is, then filter it out andtake those gems away.
So you can go and teach the the stuff that canhelp others not have those same mistakes.
And I think when we're learning to becomebetter mental performers is if you understand
those techniques, and how to do it.
(36:17):
And this is where I think your course and whatyou're teaching really comes into play is those
things are learnable on your own, but they arevery, very, very long term.
And it takes a while to understand the how tofilter through the stuff and get down to the
good things.
It took me a very long time to do that.
(36:38):
I used to dwell on stuff, mistakes all thetime.
And then after a while, I just kind of gave upthe whole day, you know, whatever, I don't
care.
And I had to find like a nice neutral ground,but that took a long time.
If I had a guideline checklist is if you will,get me to that point a lot sooner.
I felt like my my my stress level in not onlyaviation, but just career wise would have been
(37:02):
a lot less.
And I would have also been able to move on tothe next the next phase of my career with a
more open mind and much more more excited thannervous or anxiety about trying to get my 1st
airline job and building up my resume andgoing, oh, my gosh, I have these, you know, the
not so much checkride failures, but justmistakes I have to explain.
(37:24):
Or how do I tell a good story about somesomething that I did in the past that seemed
just not great to me.
This, to me helps all of that and you're ableto you're able to do that with not only
confidence, but bravery in explaining themistakes that you have made and realizing that
those mistakes are what makes you who you aretoday and a better aviator and probably a
(37:50):
better person, because you've learned from theminstead of dwelled on them or just bury them
and forgotten about them or try to forget aboutthem because you're not gonna get, I at least I
can't do that.
You know, I realize just to accept it, I, I, Iliken it to just because I've done something
bad or made a mistake instead of trying to takethat memory and then reversing it, I try to
(38:16):
take the positive thing that I've done that'sin a similar situation and use that as the as
the core memory that helps me achieve the samegoal the next time.
It's one of those little tricks that I learned.
Again, though, it's taken way too long tofigure that out.
I could use that a long time ago.
I'm I'm just learning that now at 45 years oldinstead of the 25 when I've really could have
(38:37):
used it back then.
I think, when you have a lot of informationand, and your course is so much more in-depth,
I mean, this is not even, we're not even broadbrushing.
This is not even intro level.
This is higher than that.
There are, there are things that I want peoplewho are listening to podcast takeaway.
We we have called this memory out in the boldface in the past.
(38:58):
We've kind of changed the the the narrative ofit for a while.
And I think I want to hit on the 3 main points.
And, and I think the way we can do that is Ikind of ask one simple question and that is
what is the one thing you would change aboutthe aviation industry past, present, or future.
And how does it pertain to what you're doing asa mental performance training coach?
(39:22):
Yeah, well, I would actually infuse mentalperformance training into aviation training and
just make it part of it.
Because one thing you were just talking aboutis the how.
Oftentimes instructors will will say, you know,you need to get over your mistakes.
You can't be a perfectionist.
You know, all these things, but no, and and weunderstand that as the learner, but oftentimes
(39:46):
what's missing is the how.
How do you do that?
How?
And that's what the course teaches.
Because I think it's really important.
We will all be there.
If we haven't failed, we will.
And if you haven't failed before, like youtalked about, not really having to study before
the things you hadn't done, it's hard.
Aviation will challenge you.
It is a challenging journey, and these toolswill help you have it not be so difficult.
(40:09):
Because one of the things, you kind ofmentioned this, sometimes we think that when
something's really like put on a pedestal bysociety that it has to has and it's seen as
difficult, the stress level has to match that.
But it doesn't have to be like that.
It it can still be difficult and not anxiety,you know, too much anxiety and too much stress.
You can enjoy the journey, and that's the idea.
Couldn't
(40:30):
Couldn't agree more.
I think one of the other things that you said,you you hit on it many times and it's your own
personal journey that you went through is thatperfection perfectionism is an enemy.
Can you expand on that just a little bit?
Yeah.
I I like to say my personal saying is strivefor perfection, but don't be a perfectionist.
(40:52):
So what that means is I'm not asking you toshoot lower than perfection.
Shoot for perfection.
But on the backside of it, after you went forit, do not beat yourself up for the
imperfections.
They're part of the process.
Just that's and that's where the failure partcomes in.
Now you can look at, you know, you can look atfailure as feedback or, you know, mistakes.
(41:16):
They're just feedback.
And you got to take those those little gemslike I talked about.
So, these two things are actually very wellintertwined, the perfectionism being your
enemy, and failure needs to inform you, notdefine you.
I try to teach my daughter this.
She played softball for the first time thisyear and she would, she got kind of down in
herself when she didn't get a hit every timeshe went up to the plate and mind you, she's 7.
(41:40):
So they're not going to be a lot of real hitsanyways.
But what I told her, and I actually told thewhole team this, I said, did you know that the
best baseball hitters ever throughout theircareer only got a hit one out of every three
times that they went up to the plate?
So roughly 300.
Now there's, you know, a couple outliers, but,even that even they were more of, like, 1 and a
(42:02):
half hits every 3 times.
And I said, so even the best players in theworld only got a hit, got on, got actually hit
the ball to a spot where they were able to geton base one out of every three times.
So the fact is, is 2 other times they werefailing to do their job.
But do you think that they weren't learning inthe process?
(42:23):
They were seeing what the pitcher was throwingto them.
They were understanding what was happening withtheir swing or whatever the case might be to
hit the ball and then not do it the next timeup.
And sometimes they did.
Sometimes they didn't.
But that's part of that learning process is totake those many mistakes or failures and learn
from them right then and there, and moveforward.
(42:44):
And I think I want to go to something that yousaid, and I love this quote.
In fact, I'm going to use this a lot.
And I will attribute it to you, Tammy,repeatedly.
I will use it with my daughters.
Failure should inform you, not define you.
I think that is a quote that you can put on aplaque somewhere that is, everybody should take
(43:05):
that to heart that if you're not being informedby your failures, that is the true failure that
the, the, the, the mistakes that you make, thefailures that you have, they should just inform
you that that that doesn't define who you are.
What defines you is how you recover from themand how you understand them and use them to get
better, at everything that you're doing inaviation, outside of aviation.
(43:29):
So failure should inform you not define you.
I love the quote.
Gonna use it regularly.
Thank you for introducing me to that one.
That is fantastic.
Any parting shots to the to the TPN crowd outthere?
And where can they reach you?
How can they get a hold of you?
How can they check out your material in yourcourse?
I don't ever actually think we said the nameand it'll be in the intro, but, cross check is
(43:53):
the name of the business.
And how do they get a hold of you, Tammy, and,and check out more of what you're doing?
Yeah.
So the last thing I wanna say is a lot ofpeople believe that, you know, your mindset is
kind of stable and that it is what it isn'tlike, fighter pilots will let you have or you
don't.
Well, I 100% disagree.
I think that you can absolutely train yourmind.
(44:16):
And just like if you don't train a dog, it'sgoing to be all over the place and difficult to
control.
Your mind is the same way.
It is absolutely trainable.
So if you want to learn more, you can go tocrosscheckmentalperformance.com.
You can go to tammybarlett.com if you want, andit'll navigate you there as well.
But the best place to actually reach out to medirectly is on LinkedIn.
And you can find me there, Tammy Barlett.
(44:39):
So Tammy Barlett, LinkedIn crosscheck mentalperformance, training.com?
Mental performance training.com.
And I will how about this?
I'll offer a $50 discount on my course ifpeople want to use the code empower.
Empower.
Alright.
So we're gonna
p o w e r, empower.
(44:59):
We'll throw that in the show notes.
So go take a look because I think for thenewbies out there, this may inspire them or get
or drive them in aviation.
But there's some of us who could use itanyways, who are much more, like you said,
28,000 hour pilots who could use this for farmore than just aviation.
And by the way, as we get a little bit older,our experience level goes up, but sometimes the
(45:24):
old quickness of mind starts to drop a littlebit.
And this is a way to kind of ward off some ofthat in my mindset, thinking about how to keep
you sharp, especially some of us don't don'tfly that often because of the way our jobs and
the way the schedule works.
Mhmm.
It's tough to stay on top of the game whenyou're not, you know, regularly involved in in
(45:45):
flying airplanes.
So go check Tammy out.
Go check out what she's doing.
She's she's also done speaking engagements allover the place.
She's I aspire to be more like you, Tammy.
We'll we'll we'll see how that works out.
I I don't know if, I have a speaking engagementanytime soon.
(46:05):
I'll just let
you know.
We're happy to help you out if you need somehelp.
Yeah.
Yes.
Well, you know, the t p n x may, maybe, comingand knocking at your door, so be ready for
that, April of next year.
But thanks again thanks again for joining us.
And I I know that there's a lot of people outthere who can benefit from what you're doing.
And it is a different field, a new field that alot of people do not understand.
(46:29):
And people sometimes have fear of the unknown.
And I have in the past and when I've opened mymind up to these things, I've learned so much
and become a far better person, better pilot,and better generally at everything I'm trying
to engage in in my life.
And I get more fulfillment out of it when I'mactually confident in the fact that I've
(46:50):
prepped and I'm ready to go and, and do thestuff that I love doing.
So, check Tammy out.
Again, everything will be in the show notes.
If you need to get a hold of Matt or I, hit usup at heyguys, the pilot network.com.
You can go to thepilotnetwork.com, reach usthrough there.
All our socials, everything's on there and,that's your one stop shop for all Pilot Network
(47:11):
stuff.
As we say on the Pilot Network, keep the shinyside up, the greasy side down.
Fly safe everybody.
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(01:04):
Network, hi.
It's Adam again.
I am joined by a guest today that I found to befascinating.
So I reached out to her on LinkedIn and shesaid, sure.
I would love to come on and talk to the pilotsof the pilot network.
Her name is Tammy Barlett.
She is a mental performance coach, former a tenpilot in the United States Air Force.
(01:24):
She taught me a lot in just the hour and a halfor so that we chatted, both during the podcast
before and afterwards.
But going to her website and checking outeverything that she's done in her past life as
a as an air force pilot, but also what she'sdoing now to benefit basically anybody who
(01:46):
needs that extra edge.
And I think we all kind of do need a little bitof that extra edge.
So you can, go check her out atcrosscheckmentalperformance.com.
She's the CEO and founder of CrossCheck MentalPerformance Coaching.
And she gave me a lot of insight in some ofthose basic foundational steps, to kind of get
(02:07):
you in the right mindset to grow and move inthe direction that you wanna move in to become
not only the best aviator, but best person youcan.
I I know probably a lot of us understand thismental performance coaching aspect.
It's something that we've looked at and knowlittle bits and pieces about, but we get kind
of in the details, a little bit here into theintroduction of it so you can go and experience
(02:32):
and explore it for yourself.
But why listen to me?
Let's listen to Tammy.
Tammy, thank you so much for joining us.
I'm with Tammy Barlett.
She is a very interesting and unique person inaviation.
I know I say that often, but in this case, wehave never actually had a woman fighter pilot
(02:54):
on who then became a whole bunch of otherstuff.
And your background, it was truly amazing whenI read your story, how you got to where you
were because, you and I have a similar,background, through ROTC.
But instead of me talking about it, let's talkto you and see how you got to where you are in
(03:14):
your life.
Thanks again for joining me today on thepodcast.
And how did you get this start into becoming afighter pilot and all the other stuff you do,
with with your speaking engagements and allthat.
Yeah.
You're welcome.
Thank you for having me.
I really appreciate it.
As far as how did I even get here?
Well, it all starts back when I was in highschool, and I was going to college full time
(03:37):
instead of high school my last 2 years.
And I was interested in the military, but Igrew up in Minnesota, and I didn't know anyone
in the military.
And there just happened to be a guy in the navywho was in one of my classes.
And I said, hey, I I'm thinking about themilitary, but I don't know anything about it.
And I was thinking about joining the Navy.
And he said to me, that's awesome.
(03:57):
But I'm going to recommend that you join theAir Force.
And I was like, oh, that's interesting.
Why?
And it was probably 1993 at this point.
And he said to me, well, and this is hisversion, they're the cleanest, they treat their
people the best, and it's probably the bestplace for women at this point as far as how
they are treating their people.
(04:18):
And I thought, oh, that's that's interesting.
Okay.
So when I went to the University of Minnesota,I asked if they had Air Force ROTC, and sure
enough, they did.
So I just walked myself in there and said, hey,can you tell me about this program?
And, of course, one of the first things theyask you, and this makes sense, but it was
unexpected to me because I was just there toserve my country, they said, well, do you wanna
(04:38):
be a pilot?
And I paused, and I thought, Yeah, I want to dothat.
I had never thought about it.
I didn't know any pilots, let alone femalepilots.
I wasn't around aviation.
And I did grow up believing I could be whateverI wanted to be.
So when they said that, I was like, well, yeah,let's do that.
And I went through ROTC, and I took all theirtests, and I got a pilot slot.
(05:03):
And I ended up showing up at Laughlin Air ForceBase in 1999 for pilot training, surrounded by
mostly men with engineering degrees who wantedto fly since they were 3.
So I did not necessarily feel like I fit in,but I knew that I earned my place there, so I
was just gonna work really hard and get throughit.
And I ended up going into the t 38, so I was onthe fighter bomber track.
(05:24):
And then when I graduated, they gave me anassignment as an instructor pilot in the
T-thirty 7, which is not everyone's idealchoice, but it was honestly the best job they
could have put me in because that's where Ilearned that I love to teach.
I absolutely love it.
So I taught in the t 37 for over 3 years, andthen I went on to fly the a 10.
(05:46):
I was at Tucson, went to Korea, went came backto Tucson.
But then I had cervical spine reconstruction in2006.
So I transitioned into the Air National Guardfull time, flying the m q one, and eventually
the m q nine.
This is also where I went to weapons school.
I was in the first class that they had for m qones and m q nines.
And then I got a waiver or exception to policyfor my spine, and I went back into the t 38 at
(06:14):
Laughlin Air Force Base as a full timereservist for the last six and a half years of
my career.
And this is really where I learned this iswhere I kinda developed the idea for my current
business, and I'll get to that in a second.
But I after I retired, I decided to go intoprofessional speaking.
And this came from my husband.
He was like, you really need to do this.
And at first, he told me that, and I thought,you're crazy.
(06:36):
That's that sounds horrifying.
But then I realized that we needed to get morepeople up there sharing their stories,
especially women.
There's a lot of women who quietly go off intothe night and don't share their stories, and
then we were just not sharing our experiences.
So I decided to do that.
And as I was doing that, I was thinking aboutmy speech and how did I get where I got?
And I realized that I had been, you know, doingmental performance training with the students I
(07:01):
was flying with a lot and not even knowing it,that's exactly the training I was doing because
I learned that even though I gave sick andrudder instruction, it was really important for
me to get their head out of their own waybefore I could actually teach them effectively
and be you know, make it really a powerfulinstruction versus trying to deal with what's
(07:21):
going on in their mind all the time.
And so I'd been teaching that without evenrealizing it.
So I started studying that for the last six anda half years.
I studied the mental performance training forathletes.
I shifted into the aviation world, and I'vecreated a course.
So now in addition to the professionalspeaking, which centers around how everyone can
benefit from mental performance training, Ialso have a specific course for pilots that is
(07:45):
online for 4 weeks.
So that's kind of like a sum of the last 25years.
That's a pretty quick summation of 25 years ofcareer work to get to where you are and doing
mental performance training is now yournewfound career.
But I want to back up for a second because Ithink there's something that, a lot of people
(08:09):
have a mis guided thought process on when theyfirst start into aviation is that you have to
be in a technical career field or really goodat math, to get to become a pilot.
And I jokingly tell people, I said, well, ifyou can do basic addition and basic, division,
you're probably gonna be just fine and maybesome multiplication in there as well.
(08:31):
I agree.
Because you have a bachelor's in science ingerontology.
Yeah.
I have a bachelor's of arts in politicalscience, which I was jokingly was told polycyte
to fly.
And I said, hey, that makes perfect sense.
I like to read the newspaper.
(08:52):
So let's make this work and I'll go flyairplanes for a living.
I didn't realize there's going to be a lot moreother work that I had to put in to go ahead and
get myself a pilot slot.
But you decided on going a different route.
And you realized when you got to pilot trainingthat you're surrounded by a bunch of, men who
(09:13):
were, like you said, engineering degrees, somesort of hard science stuff, going airplanes.
How did you end up deciding on that that courseof study?
And then was it the whole was the whole timethey're going, well, I really wanna fly
airplanes.
So as long as I get good grades and provemyself in ROTC, I'll be fine.
(09:34):
Or was it you had a genuine interest in the inthe field of study that you're undertaking?
Well, I'll share the middle version of thestory, not super short, not super long because
it is kind of interesting.
I showed up at ROTC, and they said, oh, withyour GPA, we can get you a scholarship.
No problem.
I thought, wonderful.
That's great.
And all of a sudden, you know, the colonelcalls me into his office, and he's he says now
(09:55):
this is months later when we actually startedschool, and he said, you realize you're
probably not going to get the scholarship.
Right?
And I said, what?
You they pretty much told me I was guaranteed.
They said, well, yes.
They they are not giving, scholarships forpsychology anymore.
You have to be an engineer, a meteorologist, ornurse because I was planning on going to get a
(10:15):
psychology degree.
And I did not want to study something I wasn'tinterested in because I thought if I don't like
the military and I get out, I'm gonna be stuckwith a degree that I don't even want to use.
And so I they had a program at the Universityof Minnesota where you can essentially create
your own degree, And I absolutely love theelderly, like, so it's really as a passion.
(10:37):
And I thought I have always thought that theywere just not kind of mistreated in, in our
society.
And so I studied gerontology, which is thesocial and psychological study of aging, so
that if their force didn't work out for me, Ihad something I was interested in.
I mean, my internship was as an activitiesassistant, a retirement community.
And I loved it.
(10:57):
So that's how I got that degree and ended up,you know, with pilot training going to pilot
training.
You know, I, it's funny that you mentioned,that as well, like having a, an interesting or
a degree that's not necessarily out thereacross the board.
When I went to pilot training, in a, a yearahead of me, I went to a, assignment night And
(11:18):
I was brand new.
I don't even think I had started yet.
I was probably a casual Lieutenant, which forthose of you out there, don't know what that
means.
You basically are waiting around to go to pilottraining and you do kind of an odd job at the
base.
And I, for those of you know what casual statusis, I was a casual lieutenant at Vance Air
Force Base instead of having a good deal likein Europe or Japan or somewhere cool.
(11:41):
I decided I wanted to be right in the thick ofit, which didn't help me at all, but that's
neither here nor there.
What was, interesting is the guy who finishednumber 1 in his class that I went to this
assignment night was a concert pianist fromduke.
He studied music and basically was thisincredible pianist.
(12:02):
And he played that night and he was as good asyou can imagine.
And he finished number 1 in his class and hepicked the, for those of you who know what this
is, the C9, which was a good deal.
In fact, it was probably the best deal going inthe, on the heavy track at the time.
And he was the last person to get it.
(12:23):
So he got to basically pick what he wanted.
So we're, we're dispelling a myth out therethat you don't need to be a technical degree to
go become a pilot in the air forcespecifically.
And most times, if you study something that youreally enjoy and do well in and you like and
you have a passion for, you're going to end upor you have a talent for, I should say, you're
(12:43):
going to end up doing better grade wise, whichwill give you a better shot to actually get the
coveted pilot slots that are out there.
Because as we both Tammy and I know, the AirForce goes in waves.
They need pilots and then they need none.
They need pilots and they need none.
So you you might be in a very competitive, timeera in your life when you're competing against
(13:05):
other people to get those pilot slots.
And one of the best ways to do that is is picka field of study that you actually really enjoy
and that you have a talent for so you can dowell and have a great GPA.
So just that that's like a little sidebar, alittle educational, thing for all of those all
of you out there who are going into ROTC orstudying in school and wanna go to OTS
(13:27):
afterwards or whatever the case is.
Just something that both of us, I think, didbecause I like to read the paper, so I went and
did.
And you have a much more, noble cause in lifeand, and studied the, the the science of aging
and have something that to this day, youprobably still know more about that field than
(13:48):
I know about my chosen field because I don'treally pay any attention to political science
anymore of any kind.
But I think when we studied something incollege and then we go on to do our our career
field, especially flying, we get exposed to alot of other facets of what aviation is.
(14:10):
I I'm working on a process of of how to takethe idea of checklists and and apply them to
other things in life and not just, hey, writeout a checklist and, you know, your to do list
or whatever your task list, but to make it moreinstrumental or not even instrumental is not
necessarily the right term, but to make it partof who you are so that when you do something,
(14:36):
you do something nearly the same every time tomake it just a very disciplined, organized
process that you can then start to excel at.
Because when you do have and I think this iswhat people don't understand about aviation
outside of the career field is when you arewhen you do the fundamental stuff over and over
and over again, and you do it to the pointwhere you have it memorized when you are thrown
(15:01):
a curve ball or you have something that happenson the outside that breaks into that checklist.
And it's different than what you've experiencedbefore.
The fundamental building blocks and thetraining that you have are allowed to flourish,
and you can excel at handling an emergency orthings that just are something that you've
never seen, which in aviation, you get quiteoften.
And I think that kind of rolls into the idea ofmental performance training and what you've
(15:26):
done after aviation, how to best conquer thosethose outside issues.
Because almost everybody can run a checklist,but not everybody can run a checklist and then
do the other stuff that comes with it, afterthe fact or when something that's unforeseen
occurs in the, on the flight deck or outsidejust in general life.
(15:48):
So how is how did you end up taking what youlearned, like you said, in your training and
throughout your career, and then saying, youknow what, I'm gonna apply this and become a
mental performance coach?
Well, I mean, I think one of the biggest thingsis that you see, you know, I guess I said
(16:10):
earlier, our mind gets our own way, and you youhit on something already when you mentioned the
whole checklist idea.
Because having a checklist, especially one thatyou're familiar with, is useful because it kind
of frees up some of your brain so you canengage it with other things.
And I think the best example I can give thateveryone can almost relate to, unless they
don't cook, but if you have a recipe that'sbrand new and you're cooking it, you're, like,
(16:35):
referencing it constantly.
It's kind of a checklist.
Right?
And but it's a lot of work.
But if you have a recipe now that's memorized,you can make that.
I'll it's so much easier.
It might take the same amount of time as therecipe that you don't know, but your mind can
be doing and engaged in other things whileyou're doing the recipe.
And that's the idea behind that checklist.
And it definitely is mental performance.
(16:56):
I mean, you talk about having a degree that'sunrelated.
That's kind of where we started.
That applies too because when I showed up atpilot training and I didn't feel like I fit in,
I could very have I could very easily havethought, I don't belong here.
What am I doing here?
I can't do this.
And let those things build up in my mindbecause I would go to class.
And when I first showed up, I'm like, what theheck are hydraulics?
(17:18):
I have no idea what that is.
And I could sit there and go, well, I'm such anidiot.
Or I can just go, well, I maybe I should knowthis, but I don't.
So I'm gonna go ask someone and know that I canlearn these things.
So it's how are you approaching it?
What is the perspective?
That's those are 2 kind of baseline mentalperformance training things, and they're
applicable in life.
It's it's not just aviation.
(17:39):
It's just extremely important in aviation.
You know, if there's a golfer out there usingmental performance training, a pilot absolutely
should be using it.
But it's something everyone can use, which iswhat I talk about in my keynotes when I do go
out and give those.
When when you started the course, you geared ittowards pilots and aviation.
We we can get talking about how the idea ofexpanding it later on.
(18:03):
But when you, when you built it for aviators,who were you targeting?
Yeah, it's interesting because some peopleoften assume I'm targeting the new struggling
pilot.
They are absolutely someone that I can help,but it has absolutely nothing to do with how
many hours you have.
(18:24):
There are there are 2 specific groups, I think,that can benefit from it.
The first group is anyone who's struggling.
And I have had 0 hour pilots take the course,and I've had someone with 28 1000 hours take
the course.
I had a 5000 hour CFI tell me it was the bestbirthday present he gave himself because it's
all about where are you mentally.
There's things people deal with in aviationthat they need to get out of their way.
(18:47):
How do you get over mistakes when you makethem?
How do you not be a perfectionist?
Because actually perfectionism is very harmfulin aviation.
How do you decrease your stress and andincrease your focus?
Anyone can benefit from that.
And so anyone who wants to improve in thoseareas or feels are struggling in those areas,
and a lot of times they'll define it asconfidence when there's other things impacting
(19:09):
their confidence that, like like, theperfectionism and the focus.
The other group is anyone who understands thepower of mental performance training because
you could look at my resume and think, I didn'tneed this.
Look where I got.
I flew the a 10, but I could have absolutelybenefit from it if I understood the power of
it.
So anyone who understands the power of it andwants to elevate and level up from wherever
(19:33):
they're at now, it can benefit them as well.
They don't have to actually be struggling tobenefit from it, but they do have to believe in
the power of your mind, or they won't do thework because you have to put the work in.
That and that was exactly where I was gonna askthe next question about if in obviously, we
don't have don't have time to get into all thespecifics and stuff like this.
(19:54):
But when you are talking about the strugglingstudent versus this versus the 5000 hour CFI or
or or greater hour pilot who might just behaving anxiety issues or battling that
perfectionism, something that I do, I used todo quite often and realize that that was,
(20:16):
actually hindering me from getting better at myprofession at things outside of that.
I think when, when I look at that, I have ahard time wrapping my head around that there's
drills out there or, or the ability to learnthat now I I've been exposed to it over the
years that now I understand that there is waysto do that.
(20:37):
Just what's an example of something that in,like in your course that somebody can take as a
drill or there's something that they can workon, just broad based to give some people an
idea of what that's like to kind of start toshift that mindset in in in your, mental
performance training concept.
(20:57):
You're right.
There's there's lots of there's lots of things.
And this is actually why I offer the money backguarantee because people can't wrap their head
around what is it that you do?
How are you actually gonna increase myconfidence?
So one small example, and this this usuallycomes in the end of the course, but is a list.
We create a list where we write down everythingthat is stressing us out on the on one side of
(21:20):
the list.
And once you're done with that, you make asecond column on the right hand side of the
paper, and you move anything over that youactually have direct control over.
And there are very little things, our thoughts,our emotions, our reactions, like those things
we have control over.
(21:41):
But there's lots of other things we don't havecontrol over that we stress about, and we use a
lot of mental energy.
So then once you move those few things overthere that you actually control directly, like,
how you respond to things, that's that'ssomething you can control.
You rip the paper in half and you take thelist, and what's left on the left hand side are
all these things that you worry about you can'tcontrol.
And there's something in our brain when we,like, rip it up or burn it or something that
(22:04):
that actually affects it.
Now it seems a little bit kinda like, really?
There's lots of small tools like that that areare helpful, but it's hard to, you know, give
the the broad brush idea because there's somany little things that I do.
And the thing I say at the end with everyone isI ask I ask in the beginning that everyone try
(22:26):
the ideas and the concepts and the techniquesI'm offering at least once, and then because
there's several things, and then walk away withthe things that work best for them.
But a lot of it, the baseline of it all comesdown to our thoughts.
Because regardless of whether you speak toyourself out loud or not, we are talking to
ourselves and listening to ourselves all daylong.
(22:49):
And it actually matters what you are saying toyourself inside of your own head.
It affects your subconscious.
And that's a lot of the study I did on thebrain and why it matters.
One of the things that as we were talkingbefore we started to record and over time, you
(23:10):
don't do this on your, just on your own.
You've also partnered with a lot of people tokind of help expand folks' capability to have
access to, mental performance training whilewhile they're in training.
This isn't just, hey, you're gonna do thiseither before you start flying or you're doing
(23:32):
it right here sometime in your career.
This is kind of a constant effort and work,that you have to put in.
But also, you've partnered with other people tohelp, increase this capability to lots of
people, like instructors, flight school, stufflike that.
Can you kind of explain how this has beeninfused in some training apparatus and syllabus
(23:58):
or syllabi, not just in the likes of me takingan at home course and doing it on my own, but
actually working with it in that kind of thatthat that structure.
(24:34):
So with instructors directly, oftentimes,what's happening is I have instructors
referring their students to me, and the idea isto make it easier for the instructor to teach
the student.
Because not only do I teach mental performancetechniques, but I also teach them some kind of
ground prep study way ways to study ways toprepare for their flight so they can be more
(24:55):
ready, actually, you know, prepared for theflight itself and mentally prepared.
And that way, the instructor is not spendingtheir time in the air repeating maneuver over
and over again when it's not actually effectivebecause the student's in their own head, and
they probably should just land at this point.
So I help them.
I help them manage their students by workingwith their students and giving them tools to
get through those struggles.
(25:17):
As far as flight schools go, what we're doingright now is, it's in the course is an option.
It's not in directly in the syllabus, becausethe thing about this course is that if you are
not interested or invested or think this willwork, it's not going to work.
So I don't want people taking the class whoare, like, what, this is so stupid and making
(25:39):
me take this.
What happens is usually a student gets to thepoint where they're so committed to aviation,
but they just the instructors don't know whatto do with them anymore because they're just in
their own head, they have so much anxiety, theycan fly, but they freak out on check rides.
They send those students to they they say, hey,we recommend this course, And then they come
take the course, and the results have beenreally inspiring and and just makes make me so
(26:04):
happy for these people because they're sodedicated to this goal.
The other students it's good for is, you know,when there's someone performing well, but the
instructor, let's say, at the flight schoolnotices that they're beating themselves up
because that's what I did a lot of.
I was performing fine, but I was alwaysthinking I was one ride away from failing out
because I didn't have my head necessarily inthe right place.
(26:25):
I worked really hard, and I didn't give up.
So that's why I was successful.
But it could have been a lot easier for me if Ihad had these tools.
So then the school will send them my way.
We don't just send everyone through becauseagain, they have to be invested in this kind of
training.
Because there's things, you know, I do delveinto a little bit of meditation and explain
why.
Because I was one at first, I was, like,meditation.
(26:49):
And then once I learned more about meditation,the science behind it, I was, like, well, I
know it's important, but I just didn't think Icould do it because I my mind is all over the
place all the time.
But then I learned more about it, and I learnedthat that's okay.
Your mind can be all over the place.
It's just about bringing it back and trainingit to bring it back so you can train your mind
to come back.
And then once you do that, things like whenyou're in the air and you have a struggle,
(27:12):
you've trained your mind to come back insteadof just run away.
And that's kind of some of the keys behind allof this in IT.
That's what I teach.
When as you talked about this, I think back towhen I went through pilot training, and I wish
you had been around then.
I, I was one of those, I beat myself up.
I did not have the work ethic or effort levelto put in to hit my optimum level of
(27:40):
performance, mainly because one, I just kind oflazy at the time, but 2 was if I didn't
naturally get something right away, the themonumental effort that I'd have to put in to
learn something was challenging for me to do.
I didn't have the greatest study habits fromcollege.
(28:01):
And and before that, what I what I see myselfbenefiting from greatly, especially back then,
would have been okay, let go of some of thesemisconceptions of yourself that you can learn
how to study, you can learn how to learnbetter.
And then also that there is no reason to beatyourself up.
(28:22):
I used to hang on to stuff after I failed,quote, unquote, for way too long.
And one of the things that both of us know iswhen you do screw up, when you're flying an
airplane, which by the way, if you have juststarted your journey, you will do many times
throughout your career is the, that is over anddone with you need to be, that needs to go by
(28:45):
the wayside immediately and you need to move onto the next thing.
And you have to actually train yourself to getgood at that.
And, we were talking about golf beforehandbecause that's what my big thing that I'm
trying to get better at.
And one of the things that I've learned isbasically a thing called the post shot routine,
but I've started to employ it in everything inmy life when I mess up, when I, when I, when I
(29:08):
don't do something with my kids, right.
Or, you know, I, I'd say something to my wifethat's necessarily not productive in our lives.
I kind of take a second break and think aboutwhat just happened and bury it.
Let it go and say, okay, you know, it's done.
There's nothing I can do to change that.
Now it's how do I move forward and move on tothe next phase of whatever my day is, my life
(29:32):
is like.
And I think stuff like this, that that's notvery easy to do.
And by the way, even if you get good at it,you're still gonna have moments where you're
not.
And this is the kind of thing that I think canhelp a lot of students and a lot of pilots out
there who are struggling to hit the next level,especially.
Like, I I think of this as people who aretrying to achieve, that that next that level up
(29:55):
in aviation.
But, you know, whatever that might be, youknow, becoming a weapons school instructor or a
captain at an airline as, as a very youngindividual who doesn't have a lot of
experience.
This is the kind of stuff that gives you thatedge that, that over not necessarily the
competition, but just over your own self doubt.
And that is something that I can I completelysee as a as just in it in and of itself, that
(30:23):
being a huge benefit to anybody out there who,can use that kind of thing?
And and by the way, there it's very hard to doon your own.
Trust me.
I've tried to do it for 25 years, and it'staken me 25 years to figure out this is kind of
the shortcut to do it in, instead of 25 years,get it done in 25 days.
(30:43):
And, you have a, a big leg up on yourself andbeing able to move forward.
One of the other things, as we were talkingearlier, is you, you say it helps obviously in
aviation.
And we both know how that is.
It's just, it's very pertinent.
It's very pertinent to listeners of the pod andthe people part of the network.
(31:05):
But the way I see it is this is for all aspectsof your life.
There's so much more out there than aviationbecause after a while, even if you fly a 10s or
you're flying an a 330 or whatever you areflying, the job becomes a job after a while and
(31:26):
you have the rest of your life to live you dothat work.
So you can go live the rest of your life, playgolf, be with your kids, start a business,
whatever it might be.
Give me just a quick perspective on how you seethis being able to engage in the rest of your
life and growing you as a person, not just apilot.
(31:49):
Right.
Well, a lot of the tools we use, I Ispecifically in the aviation course is I'm
framing it so people can put into aviationbecause not everyone has the ability to take
the content and shove it into where they theywant it to be.
But the content, like you're saying, applies toeveryone and and everything.
So I'm actually creating a course that's a nonaviation course.
(32:10):
And some of the things that are we can talkabout is perfectionism, you know, and this this
applies to everyone, right?
When I was a little girl, my mom wouldintroduce me as her little perfectionist and
I'd smile and be all proud.
Oh my, that's terrible.
Perfectionism is so bad.
So research shows that the highest achievers inany given field are only moderate
(32:32):
perfectionists, and those with the highestlevels of perfectionism are only moderate
achievers because the anxiety they feel overmaking mistake stops them from taking timely
action.
And one thing I always used to say to mystudents, kinda like you mentioned is there's
no perfect flight.
The only difference between you and me is howbig the mistakes are and how many we make, and
(32:53):
that goes for life as well.
You know?
And one thing we hit on big time is is failure.
And you addressed this too, but failure is notexclusive to aviation.
Failure applies to everything.
And what I try and teach people is that youneed to develop a mindset of curiosity around
failure.
Yeah.
Does it suck?
Yeah.
Feel the emotions, deal with the emotions,don't shove them down.
(33:16):
Actually, let it out because you you wouldn'tgo run a race with a weight vest.
Right?
So you have to get those emotions and thoughtsand crap off of you before you push forward.
But once you do that, dig through that failureand figure out what you can learn from it.
Most people, what they do is they carry aroundwhat I say a bowl of crap that that is their
failure.
And they either try and hide it behind theirback or they're going, oh, my gosh, look at
(33:39):
this that I did, you know, thinking, okay, Ican't forget this failure because I want to
learn from it.
It's really important.
Well, here's the deal.
You strain out that bowl of crap and get rid ofthe crap.
There's gonna be some gems in there.
Gems of information are things that you canlearn, and you don't need to walk around that
bowl of crap.
You you wanna take the gems and then sharethose with other people.
(34:01):
Say, hey, you know, I learned this.
You wanna let failure inform you, not defineyou.
And so the best story I can I can give you tohelp explain that, and non aviaries can apply
this too, is I I asked 2 different studentsabout, you know, what's the worst thing they
(34:21):
did when they're flying?
And student a says, well, yeah.
I had a tail strike.
You know, I hit the tail on on landing, and itwas awful.
I can't believe I did that.
It was I'm just I'm such a bad pilot.
I probably shouldn't even be flying.
I don't know what I'm thinking.
So that's student a.
Student b says to me, well, I had a tailstrike, and I learned that when I do x, y
(34:46):
happens.
So I don't do x anymore.
And they they use the failure in their or themistake, if you wanna say it that way, to
inform them, not to define them because we willall make mistakes.
And what are you gonna take away from it?
I think when I hear stories like that andhaving been an interview coach, it's one thing
(35:07):
where we talk about taking your mistakes andusing them to learn for yourself and then for
others as well.
Bring it back to the squadron and bring it backto your colleagues, whatever the case might be.
But the real critical piece there is thatlearning for yourself first, because it's, it's
really hard to go back and teach others.
(35:30):
Both of us having been instructors to teachothers something unless you've either a
experience it for yourself or B, you've seenothers experience it and really internalize it
and understand it well enough to be able to goout and teach it.
And when we have those mistakes that we'vemade, and they resonate, like you said, you
know, you got this bowl of crap, just like, letit be there.
(35:55):
Understand what it is, then filter it out andtake those gems away.
So you can go and teach the the stuff that canhelp others not have those same mistakes.
And I think when we're learning to becomebetter mental performers is if you understand
those techniques, and how to do it.
(36:17):
And this is where I think your course and whatyou're teaching really comes into play is those
things are learnable on your own, but they arevery, very, very long term.
And it takes a while to understand the how tofilter through the stuff and get down to the
good things.
It took me a very long time to do that.
(36:38):
I used to dwell on stuff, mistakes all thetime.
And then after a while, I just kind of gave upthe whole day, you know, whatever, I don't
care.
And I had to find like a nice neutral ground,but that took a long time.
If I had a guideline checklist is if you will,get me to that point a lot sooner.
I felt like my my my stress level in not onlyaviation, but just career wise would have been
(37:02):
a lot less.
And I would have also been able to move on tothe next the next phase of my career with a
more open mind and much more more excited thannervous or anxiety about trying to get my 1st
airline job and building up my resume andgoing, oh, my gosh, I have these, you know, the
not so much checkride failures, but justmistakes I have to explain.
(37:24):
Or how do I tell a good story about somesomething that I did in the past that seemed
just not great to me.
This, to me helps all of that and you're ableto you're able to do that with not only
confidence, but bravery in explaining themistakes that you have made and realizing that
those mistakes are what makes you who you aretoday and a better aviator and probably a
(37:50):
better person, because you've learned from theminstead of dwelled on them or just bury them
and forgotten about them or try to forget aboutthem because you're not gonna get, I at least I
can't do that.
You know, I realize just to accept it, I, I, Iliken it to just because I've done something
bad or made a mistake instead of trying to takethat memory and then reversing it, I try to
(38:16):
take the positive thing that I've done that'sin a similar situation and use that as the as
the core memory that helps me achieve the samegoal the next time.
It's one of those little tricks that I learned.
Again, though, it's taken way too long tofigure that out.
I could use that a long time ago.
I'm I'm just learning that now at 45 years oldinstead of the 25 when I've really could have
(38:37):
used it back then.
I think, when you have a lot of informationand, and your course is so much more in-depth,
I mean, this is not even, we're not even broadbrushing.
This is not even intro level.
This is higher than that.
There are, there are things that I want peoplewho are listening to podcast takeaway.
We we have called this memory out in the boldface in the past.
(38:58):
We've kind of changed the the the narrative ofit for a while.
And I think I want to hit on the 3 main points.
And, and I think the way we can do that is Ikind of ask one simple question and that is
what is the one thing you would change aboutthe aviation industry past, present, or future.
And how does it pertain to what you're doing asa mental performance training coach?
(39:22):
Yeah, well, I would actually infuse mentalperformance training into aviation training and
just make it part of it.
Because one thing you were just talking aboutis the how.
Oftentimes instructors will will say, you know,you need to get over your mistakes.
You can't be a perfectionist.
You know, all these things, but no, and and weunderstand that as the learner, but oftentimes
(39:46):
what's missing is the how.
How do you do that?
How?
And that's what the course teaches.
Because I think it's really important.
We will all be there.
If we haven't failed, we will.
And if you haven't failed before, like youtalked about, not really having to study before
the things you hadn't done, it's hard.
Aviation will challenge you.
It is a challenging journey, and these toolswill help you have it not be so difficult.
(40:09):
Because one of the things, you kind ofmentioned this, sometimes we think that when
something's really like put on a pedestal bysociety that it has to has and it's seen as
difficult, the stress level has to match that.
But it doesn't have to be like that.
It it can still be difficult and not anxiety,you know, too much anxiety and too much stress.
You can enjoy the journey, and that's the idea.
Couldn't
(40:30):
Couldn't agree more.
I think one of the other things that you said,you you hit on it many times and it's your own
personal journey that you went through is thatperfection perfectionism is an enemy.
Can you expand on that just a little bit?
Yeah.
I I like to say my personal saying is strivefor perfection, but don't be a perfectionist.
(40:52):
So what that means is I'm not asking you toshoot lower than perfection.
Shoot for perfection.
But on the backside of it, after you went forit, do not beat yourself up for the
imperfections.
They're part of the process.
Just that's and that's where the failure partcomes in.
Now you can look at, you know, you can look atfailure as feedback or, you know, mistakes.
(41:16):
They're just feedback.
And you got to take those those little gemslike I talked about.
So, these two things are actually very wellintertwined, the perfectionism being your
enemy, and failure needs to inform you, notdefine you.
I try to teach my daughter this.
She played softball for the first time thisyear and she would, she got kind of down in
herself when she didn't get a hit every timeshe went up to the plate and mind you, she's 7.
(41:40):
So they're not going to be a lot of real hitsanyways.
But what I told her, and I actually told thewhole team this, I said, did you know that the
best baseball hitters ever throughout theircareer only got a hit one out of every three
times that they went up to the plate?
So roughly 300.
Now there's, you know, a couple outliers, but,even that even they were more of, like, 1 and a
(42:02):
half hits every 3 times.
And I said, so even the best players in theworld only got a hit, got on, got actually hit
the ball to a spot where they were able to geton base one out of every three times.
So the fact is, is 2 other times they werefailing to do their job.
But do you think that they weren't learning inthe process?
(42:23):
They were seeing what the pitcher was throwingto them.
They were understanding what was happening withtheir swing or whatever the case might be to
hit the ball and then not do it the next timeup.
And sometimes they did.
Sometimes they didn't.
But that's part of that learning process is totake those many mistakes or failures and learn
from them right then and there, and moveforward.
(42:44):
And I think I want to go to something that yousaid, and I love this quote.
In fact, I'm going to use this a lot.
And I will attribute it to you, Tammy,repeatedly.
I will use it with my daughters.
Failure should inform you, not define you.
I think that is a quote that you can put on aplaque somewhere that is, everybody should take
(43:05):
that to heart that if you're not being informedby your failures, that is the true failure that
the, the, the, the mistakes that you make, thefailures that you have, they should just inform
you that that that doesn't define who you are.
What defines you is how you recover from themand how you understand them and use them to get
better, at everything that you're doing inaviation, outside of aviation.
(43:29):
So failure should inform you not define you.
I love the quote.
Gonna use it regularly.
Thank you for introducing me to that one.
That is fantastic.
Any parting shots to the to the TPN crowd outthere?
And where can they reach you?
How can they get a hold of you?
How can they check out your material in yourcourse?
I don't ever actually think we said the nameand it'll be in the intro, but, cross check is
(43:53):
the name of the business.
And how do they get a hold of you, Tammy, and,and check out more of what you're doing?
Yeah.
So the last thing I wanna say is a lot ofpeople believe that, you know, your mindset is
kind of stable and that it is what it isn'tlike, fighter pilots will let you have or you
don't.
Well, I 100% disagree.
I think that you can absolutely train yourmind.
(44:16):
And just like if you don't train a dog, it'sgoing to be all over the place and difficult to
control.
Your mind is the same way.
It is absolutely trainable.
So if you want to learn more, you can go tocrosscheckmentalperformance.com.
You can go to tammybarlett.com if you want, andit'll navigate you there as well.
But the best place to actually reach out to medirectly is on LinkedIn.
And you can find me there, Tammy Barlett.
(44:39):
So Tammy Barlett, LinkedIn crosscheck mentalperformance, training.com?
Mental performance training.com.
And I will how about this?
I'll offer a $50 discount on my course ifpeople want to use the code empower.
Empower.
Alright.
So we're gonna
p o w e r, empower.
(44:59):
We'll throw that in the show notes.
So go take a look because I think for thenewbies out there, this may inspire them or get
or drive them in aviation.
But there's some of us who could use itanyways, who are much more, like you said,
28,000 hour pilots who could use this for farmore than just aviation.
And by the way, as we get a little bit older,our experience level goes up, but sometimes the
(45:24):
old quickness of mind starts to drop a littlebit.
And this is a way to kind of ward off some ofthat in my mindset, thinking about how to keep
you sharp, especially some of us don't don'tfly that often because of the way our jobs and
the way the schedule works.
Mhmm.
It's tough to stay on top of the game whenyou're not, you know, regularly involved in in
(45:45):
flying airplanes.
So go check Tammy out.
Go check out what she's doing.
She's she's also done speaking engagements allover the place.
She's I aspire to be more like you, Tammy.
We'll we'll we'll see how that works out.
I I don't know if, I have a speaking engagementanytime soon.
(46:05):
I'll just let
you know.
We're happy to help you out if you need somehelp.
Yeah.
Yes.
Well, you know, the t p n x may, maybe, comingand knocking at your door, so be ready for
that, April of next year.
But thanks again thanks again for joining us.
And I I know that there's a lot of people outthere who can benefit from what you're doing.
And it is a different field, a new field that alot of people do not understand.
(46:29):
And people sometimes have fear of the unknown.
And I have in the past and when I've opened mymind up to these things, I've learned so much
and become a far better person, better pilot,and better generally at everything I'm trying
to engage in in my life.
And I get more fulfillment out of it when I'mactually confident in the fact that I've
(46:50):
prepped and I'm ready to go and, and do thestuff that I love doing.
So, check Tammy out.
Again, everything will be in the show notes.
If you need to get a hold of Matt or I, hit usup at heyguys, the pilot network.com.
You can go to thepilotnetwork.com, reach usthrough there.
All our socials, everything's on there and,that's your one stop shop for all Pilot Network
(47:11):
stuff.
As we say on the Pilot Network, keep the shinyside up, the greasy side down.
Fly safe everybody.
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