September 18, 2024 • 21 mins
It's Day 3 of the WEEK OF CABRI and we are diving into one of THE most important subjects for organizers--working with clients with ADHD.
Adapting to clients with ADHD means talking about how we need to emphasize the wide spectrum of symptoms and the need for flexibility. We are also talking about the significance of not overcomplicating organizational systems and maintaining simplicity for clients. Lots of great things here for our favorite professional organizers!
00:55 The Importance of Working with ADHD Clients
01:34 Adapting to Clients' Needs
08:56 Simplifying the Organizing Process
13:34 Future Trends in Professional Organizing
17:27 Embracing Slow Periods in Business
20:25 Conclusion and Contact Information
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hey pro organizers, this is MelissaKlug and you are listening to
the Pro Organizer Studio Podcast.
Professional organizingchanged my entire life.
After 20 years of working athuge companies, I started working
for myself, opened an organizingbusiness and grew it to six figures.
And now I spend all day every dayhere at Pro Organizer Studio, teaching
(00:23):
professional organizers around the world,how to grow the business of their dreams.
I'm so excited that you're herelistening and I am ready to get started.
When I texted Cabri to let her know thatI was calling this the week of Cabri on
the podcast, she goes, oh, Lord, peopleare going to get really sick of me.
And I'm like, well, they werelistening to me for like 140 episodes.
(00:44):
So.
Who knows if they're not sick of me,they're not going to be sick of you, but
I have never sick of listening to Cabri
And today we were talkingabout a couple of things that
I think are crazy important.
One of which is workingwith clients with ADHD.
So I am ready to jump in with,Cabri just a friendly reminder.
If you haven't heard already,we have a new workshop go to
(01:06):
poroadmap.com to get that.
In your inbox.
And then also, if you want to talkto me about any of the programs that
we have at Pro Organizer Studio, ourOrganizing Essentials and Inspired
Organizer are open for enrollment.
Right now.
I'd love to chat with you.
Email me.
hello@proorganizerstudio.com.
Here's the person that I am never sick of.
(01:27):
And hopefully.
you are not sick of me either.
Thanks organizers.
As always for listening, have a great day.
The other thing that I'm goingto put out there as a trend.
That I think we haveto be really aware of.
Is the rise in diagnosis, whether eitheractual or TIkTok diagnosis of ADHD.
(01:51):
And one of the things that I see a lotin our group is someone will come in and
they will say, I have a potential client.
She has ADHD.
How do I work with her?
And the answer is.
ADHD is not like a cold, it is a widespectrum of symptoms and other things
(02:11):
and one of the things that I will betalking about a lot is we all have to
figure out how to work with ADHD clientsbecause like I said some of them are
getting diagnosed, some people aregetting diagnosed Very legitimately.
And some people are just saying,Oh, I have all these symptoms.
I'm pretty sure this is me.
And we have to be really adaptableto working with those clients.
(02:32):
Now,
I fully agree with that as somebodywho had a late ADHD diagnosis in life.
And I just realized my brainjust works differently.
Yes.
ADHD has caused good things andwhen it comes to the problem solving
and wanting the challenge and alittle bit of that dopamine hit
of Ooh, I did something fun today.
But then I also realized like mybrain automatically skips over
(02:56):
steps that feel like common sense.
So when I'm trying to teach a newteam member something and I'm like,
Oh, you just do this and this.
And they're like, wait, what?
I don't know what you just did.
And I'm like, Oh, but it was so simple.
And I realized there'shalf the steps missing.
Same thing for our clients.
There was one client that, anybody whoworks with ADHD clients, you'll love this.
She had boxes in her closet that shewould store like backstock makeup
(03:19):
and skincare and that kind of stuff.
But she got to the point where thingswould just pile, like most people
with ADHD, you know, pilers versusfilers, the whole conversation.
I told her, I was like, what if we changedout the boxes with lids for drawers?
And she was like, I don't knowif I want to spend the money
it doesn't seem worthwhile.
But she was essentially taking the thingsand setting them on top of the box.
It was the block of the lid.
(03:41):
Of open the lid, put the thinginside the lid, close the lid.
That did not work for her.
But the, pull the drawer, put it in,close the drawer, that worked for her.
That's ADHD.
People don't realize thatsomething that simple is ADHD.
And how it can affect theirlife of, this is a non organized
system versus an organized system.
Very simple tweak and change.
But that goes back to being adaptable.
(04:03):
You may not have a client whoeven knows that they have ADHD.
They may not have ever evenbeen self diagnosed from TikTok.
They may just be like, I don'tknow why these systems and these
processes don't work for me.
Guess what?
You have to be the personto figure that out for them.
Maybe not diagnose them, but say, hey,maybe this works a little bit better.
Let's see if this You know, let's seeif this would be easier to maintain or
better for the house or that's wherewe have to be very open minded and
(04:27):
willing to learn and willing to adjust.
If we are an organizer who walks into aclient's home and says, nope, you have
to have things in boxes with lids andnope, you have to have labels exactly
like this and nope, you have to makesure that this stays here and not there.
You're going to be one of those peoplewho will not make the five years.
Honestly, I totally agree withyou and that adaptability and that
(04:50):
flexibility is something that I preachfrom the mountaintops of working.
in a client's home.
It's not just about our businesses,but being able to look at that client
and be like, explain to me how youknow, explain to me how you learn,
explain to me how you do this.
Give me a little bit ofhow you do X, Y, Z system.
You can start asking those questionsand then getting a really good
(05:13):
idea of what works for them.
As we all know, there areI'm not going to get it.
Yep.
So that makes you a next level organizer.
(05:35):
Yes.
But my argument.
To anyone who is listening to thisis I would start to assume that every
potential client that is contacting youmight have an ADHD diagnosis or not.
That is, to me, you should assumethat they have it until you are
proven that they do not rather thangoing, Oh, I have this client that's
(05:56):
come to me and they have ADHD.
What do I do?
That is how I'm viewing it now.
That's a really good way to view it.
I actually like that.
It's almost everyone that comes to me now.
Almost everyone that is comingin is here's what's going on.
Do you feel
like you were attracting your clientsbecause you have ADHD and you know how
to speak to them in a way that registers?
And so they're naturallyjust drawn and attracted
(06:17):
to you.
Maybe I'm one of the TIkTok diagnose.
I have not gotten actually diagnosed,but I'm 100 percent positive.
I am also late life ADHD for 100reasons that we don't need to go into.
But possibly it is.
It's very possible.
I also think one of the big thingsis now people are very willing
(06:38):
to talk about these things.
I think people are much more open about.
I have a diagnosis of blah.
About pretty much anything, depression,anxiety, and we're much more open
about mental health concerns.
And so I think that people are verywilling to admit, Hey, I have ADHD and
or I have these things that are going on.
And so that is the opening of theconversation rather than something you
(07:00):
discover in the, I've been working withthis client for five sessions and that
they're just now telling me about this.
Yeah.
So people are much more blunt abouthere's what I've got going on.
So, but to answer your question, and Ijust did an ADHD thing is I just circled
around the question you originallyasked, which is maybe I am attracting
(07:22):
them because I just have the rightseries of things that I have said, or
they come to my website and they justconnect with something they have seen
there that they recognize in themselves.
Very possible.
My website is a little chaotic.
In a way that I enjoy.
I feel like
once I started talking aboutmy ADHD diagnosis, I had more
clients that the only way Iknow how to describe it is they.
(07:45):
registered and understood that crackheadsquirrel, like that lives in me.
Like they saw that and feltcomfortable and understood
by somebody from the outside.
And so, I don't know, we have had a lotmore clients that have had ADHD and I have
to assume there's some sort of correlation
there.
Yeah.
Very possible.
I also think that you shouldbe comfortable enough to
(08:07):
say, that's not something I'mcomfortable with dealing with.
That's also okay.
I would like to be clear about thatbecause there are some organizers that
is going to be a level of discomfort thatthey're not going to be able to deal with.
And so then that's another case where yougot to have referral partners of someone
who are like, yes, give me that challenge.
I will take it on.
Yes.
Cause I did have a client that came tome several weeks ago and she had worked
(08:32):
with another organizer who was 0 percent agood match for her and was very judgmental
about everything that she had going on.
And you know, I, she waslike, I can't do that.
Totally.
Okay.
But you gotta know who youare and serve those clients.
So.
Absolutely.
Can we talk about one ofyours and my favorite subjects
(08:53):
about organizing organizers?
Stop over complicating things, please.
Please stop overcomplicating thingsfor yourself, for your clients.
Please stop.
I think that there is a whole demographicof people and or organizers who don't
even realize that they're doing it.
(09:13):
And it's not till things stop working.
And it kind of goes back to that.
Maybe I'm overcomplicating things andmaybe that's why things are not working.
Maybe it's not even that ourindustry is changing as much.
Maybe we're the cause of the changes andwe're the ones that are the problems.
But yeah, man we like to beperfectionists and we like to do
things a very specific way, but thatcan sometimes cause us to be too into
(09:35):
the business or too into the industry.
And so for us, we say, yeah,organizing product and for somebody
who's not familiar with it.
They're like, but what is that?
I don't know.
And that's fair.
If you've never hired an organizerbefore, you shouldn't know.
You shouldn't know what to expect.
Same thing with, can wetalk about sales process?
Yeah.
(09:56):
Very long drawn out, complicatedsales process, whether that's
discounting packages or differentrates for different organizers.
And it's just messy.
And it's going to be hard for yourpotential clients to understand
it and wrap their head around it.
And if they're not wrapping their headaround it, they're not hiring you.
Clients
are overwhelmed, tired, theyhave tremendous decision fatigue.
(10:18):
If you are talking to a mom,they're just freaking tired.
They're tired.
Even if you have really goodpartner women still bear the
brunt of most household tasks.
So that's just reality.
If you make it really hard for them tomake a decision, they want as we like
to say, the big glittery easy button.
(10:40):
If you make it hard forthem, they are going to walk.
You have between 10 and 30 secondsif you're lucky to hook them.
Into your way of doing things oryour way of approaching things.
And if you have a website that is75 scrolls of you know, I've got
this package and this package andthis is they're out, they're gone.
(11:01):
Because they're also going toassume it's really complex to work
with you once you get on site.
Even
like this sound, and this isagain, another hill I will die on.
Yes, we have a website form andthat's where we prefer people
to submit inquiries through.
Yes.
If somebody reaches out on Instagramand says, Hey, I really want to do my
kitchen and pantry and laundry room.
(11:23):
I would feel like a jerk if Isent them a message back and said,
yes, please go to our website.
You need to fill out this form.
No.
you.
No.
You know what I do?
Is I'm like, yeah, love to.
When can we do the consult?
9 a.
m.
on Monday?
Great.
What's your home address?
What's your phone number?
What's your email?
Do I then go fill out the form for them?
Yes.
But as an organizer, it's myjob to make their life easier.
(11:43):
Not the other way around.
They're not here for me.
I'm here for them.
They don't care
about your rules.
Nope, they do not.
They just don't.
They just don't.
There was someone thatthere was an organizer.
This was a few years ago.
I was just trying toget in touch with them.
Literally just had to, I justhad a quick message I needed
to send them about something.
The only way to get in touch with them.
The only way.
(12:05):
Was their website form.
Their information was nowhereelse on their website.
It was their website form.
It had like 15 required questions, someof which were like paragraphs long.
And that was the only way thatyou could even contact them
to say something very simple.
So even though I just had a simple onesentence thing I needed to say to them,
I still had to click on every singlebutton because they were all required.
(12:28):
And it drove me bananas because I'm stilltalking about it several years later.
Don't do that to
people.
That's whenever you do the periodtab and then they have all these
Blank non existent required answers.
Exactly.
Also, they probably got excitedbecause they probably got an
email that said website inquiry.
And then I was the person that was like,Nope, I'm not actually a potential client.
(12:48):
So just to, it just caused a lot ofother problems, but yes, but over
complicating things in general,keep it simple for yourself, for
your potential clients or everyone.
I think people's patience.
I know we've talked a lot about likethings that have changed since COVID
people have no patience anymore.
Yep.
They're just cranky.
People are cranky.
Just make thingsexceedingly simple for them.
(13:09):
Just be like, I have it handled.
I have it handled.
I'm a very long term client who
she's traveling nonstop.
And she asked me to do a couplethings and I asked her a pretty simple
follow up question and she texted,she goes, girl, I don't give a crap.
And I was like, all right, messagereceived, not asking any more questions.
So just make it easy.
(13:32):
I love that.
That's a good rule of thumb.
Where do you feel likeorganizers are going?
If you had the crystal ball or themagic eight ball or whatever, what
do you think what are we going tobe talking about a year from now?
I definitely think you're ontosomething with the ADHD thing.
I think that will be huge just aspeople continue to self diagnose
or have resources to self diagnoseor actually get diagnosed.
(13:55):
I also think we're going to see wehave already seen the shift with luxury
organizing and we've talked about howit's different from the organizers
who were on hoarders 20 years ago.
But I think we're going to see a,maybe like a, it's more attainable
for average joes, you know?
(14:16):
And I think some of that toocomes down to just mindset of.
For me personally, I did notgrow up in a home where we hired
somebody to come clean our house.
That was a big no.
That was complete taboo.
But for me, in this stage oflife, in this stage of business,
that is an easy 200 every threeweeks that I am willing to pay.
I think you're going to see thatsame shift with other people.
(14:38):
Maybe people that don't recognizethe value that they can get from
organizing, or maybe they have neverbeen exposed to it, or it was maybe
even taboo of somebody's going tocome into your house and help you.
Organize your underwear drawer thosethings are going to slowly be broken
down over time and it's just going tobecome more normal to where it's oh, yep,
hired an organizer, pantry looks great.
That also by becoming more attainablefor other clients, you may see less of
(15:02):
this glamorous Khloe Kardashian pantry.
Which I was never a big fan of, ifwe're being like 1000 percent honest.
I think it just needs to be functional.
I think it needs to also lookpretty, but it can't just be
pretty and not functional.
I think we're going toget back to that is like.
Things have to be super, super functional.
They have to be easy to maintain.
They have to be less stress on you.
(15:23):
We're gonna get back to that and it'sgoing to be a revolution through homes
and through families of No, I don'tcare if it is absolutely glamorous and
a million matching bins and a millionmatching canisters It works and it's
simple and it's easy to maintain.
That's the core of where I think thingsare heading whether it's Organizers
(15:44):
who work with clients on a DIY basis,or if they come in and work in their
homes it's gonna become apparent.
I think too that it's going to, peopleare going, first of all, people are
more comfortable hiring people to dothings in your home, to your point.
I was awakened every Saturday bythe vacuum at a very early hour
and it was time to clean, right?
Like that, but people now arevery open to I'm going to hire a
(16:07):
handyman just to hang my pictures.
I'm going to hire a cleaning person.
I'm going to hire and recognizingthat there are services out there
for so many things that theymight have just done themselves.
And as you know, self care.
Mental health concerns,all of those things.
I do think that you are rightthat we are going to move away.
And this is probably also becauseof the shift on Instagram of
(16:27):
everything doesn't have to be perfect.
And there are people like domesticblisters on, instagram and Tik Tok I love
that woman so much and she just talksabout, you know, struggle care, like how
to basically the keep how to keep housewhile you're while your house is burning
and all of those things that, we just wantpeople to take better care of themselves.
And that means having functionalsystems, not gorgeous systems that
(16:50):
are impossible to actually maintain.
Yes.
I do think, too, that, there are a lotof people that are out there talking
about, you know, they're, we don't know.
We are not economists.
I do think that there is a better thanaverage chance that there will be, you
just look at trends in economics, likethere might be an economic slowdown.
There are a lot of thingshappening out there.
(17:10):
In the markets, but what we'realso always going to say is even in
financial challenges, there are alwaysgoing to be people that are still
interested in hiring services, stillinterested in having people in their
home, still interested in spendingmoney where it makes sense for them.
I think that's something that we'regoing to continue to see as well.
I'm super glad you mentioned thatbecause I think that can be a excuse.
(17:33):
That we as business owners, not justorganizers, but business owners fall
to when maybe we don't have a recordbreaking month or things are slow.
It's really easy to say politics, economy,you know, the water's green, whatever.
But that is our chance.
And I will, again, another hill.
I will, nobody hills.
(17:54):
I will die there on like when it slowsdown and it will, cause it always does.
Whether that is, you know, use a soloorganizer, use a team, when things
slow down, that is your chance.
That is your breath to rest and recoverif you have been going 90 miles an hour.
That is your chance to update systems,update handbooks, update training guides.
That's your chance to maybe launcha digital product or some other
(18:15):
sort of semi passive income.
Those slow down times are neededand they're not a bad thing.
And I just try to remind peoplethat's your time also, too, to like.
But also plant the seeds, do thethings that will get you more clients.
Maybe not tomorrow, but a year fromnow or six months from now, or three
months from now, do the things thatyou need to do to continue growing
(18:36):
your business, but also enjoy the restbecause it does not come often sometimes.
And so when it does come,it's good to take it.
I also think God universe, he has a wayof slowing us down if we do not slow down.
And that has always happened to meof I will be pushing and pushing.
And then I just get.
Miserably ill.
And I'm out for two weeks and that's himsaying, sit down, calm down, chill out.
(19:02):
If you so the podcast that I did inJanuary with Kim Snodgrass or early
February, Kim Snodgrass, who, youknow, I'm interviewing her every year
in her business, and there is onethat is, I called it safety corner
because she had something dangeroushappened to her on a job and she
goes, I wanted to take December off.
And the universe gave me areason to have December off.
(19:24):
She was like, I wanted to take Decemberoff, but she slogged through it.
She took a bunch ofclients, and guess what?
She didn't work in Decemberbecause of a combination of
things that happened to her.
She's just take the month off.
That's what I wanted to do.
I didn't listen to myself.
And I got it anyway.
So, yes, listen to yourself.
But have you seen that reel?
That is, it's actually oneof my favorite things.
It's someone who's man, I'mjust really I'm exhausted.
(19:46):
And then they're like, well,have you had enough water today?
No.
Have you exercised?
No.
Have you slept?
No.
Have you eaten?
Well, no.
It's like this series of things.
What could you be possibly doingthat is contributing to this?
That's one that I will say too,is when people say I'm slow, it's
the slowest time I've ever had.
When you start asking have you done this?
Have you done this?
Have you done this?
Have you done this?
(20:07):
They're like, no, I haven'tdone any of those things.
So we also have moretime than we think we do.
To be doing some of those thingsthat we are just sitting here in
a panic mode, which I understand,but you're in a panic mode.
And so your body is not goingHey, there are some things I could
do to help solve this problem.
Thanks for listening to thePro Organizer Studio Podcast.
(20:29):
I am Melissa, and I've had agreat time here with you today.
If you want more informationabout us, you can find us online
at proorganizerstudio.com.
Our Instagram is @proorganizerstudio.
You can email mehello@proorganizerstudio.com.
And you can get our brand new freeworkshop called How Professional
Organizers Can Get Clients WithoutUsing Social Media at poroadmap.com.
(20:55):
Thanks for joining us.
Have an awesome day organizers.
Hey pro organizers, this is MelissaKlug and you are listening to
the Pro Organizer Studio Podcast.
Professional organizingchanged my entire life.
After 20 years of working athuge companies, I started working
for myself, opened an organizingbusiness and grew it to six figures.
And now I spend all day every dayhere at Pro Organizer Studio, teaching
(00:23):
professional organizers around the world,how to grow the business of their dreams.
I'm so excited that you're herelistening and I am ready to get started.
When I texted Cabri to let her know thatI was calling this the week of Cabri on
the podcast, she goes, oh, Lord, peopleare going to get really sick of me.
And I'm like, well, they werelistening to me for like 140 episodes.
(00:44):
So.
Who knows if they're not sick of me,they're not going to be sick of you, but
I have never sick of listening to Cabri
And today we were talkingabout a couple of things that
I think are crazy important.
One of which is workingwith clients with ADHD.
So I am ready to jump in with,Cabri just a friendly reminder.
If you haven't heard already,we have a new workshop go to
(01:06):
poroadmap.com to get that.
In your inbox.
And then also, if you want to talkto me about any of the programs that
we have at Pro Organizer Studio, ourOrganizing Essentials and Inspired
Organizer are open for enrollment.
Right now.
I'd love to chat with you.
Email me.
hello@proorganizerstudio.com.
Here's the person that I am never sick of.
(01:27):
And hopefully.
you are not sick of me either.
Thanks organizers.
As always for listening, have a great day.
The other thing that I'm goingto put out there as a trend.
That I think we haveto be really aware of.
Is the rise in diagnosis, whether eitheractual or TIkTok diagnosis of ADHD.
(01:51):
And one of the things that I see a lotin our group is someone will come in and
they will say, I have a potential client.
She has ADHD.
How do I work with her?
And the answer is.
ADHD is not like a cold, it is a widespectrum of symptoms and other things
(02:11):
and one of the things that I will betalking about a lot is we all have to
figure out how to work with ADHD clientsbecause like I said some of them are
getting diagnosed, some people aregetting diagnosed Very legitimately.
And some people are just saying,Oh, I have all these symptoms.
I'm pretty sure this is me.
And we have to be really adaptableto working with those clients.
(02:32):
Now,
I fully agree with that as somebodywho had a late ADHD diagnosis in life.
And I just realized my brainjust works differently.
Yes.
ADHD has caused good things andwhen it comes to the problem solving
and wanting the challenge and alittle bit of that dopamine hit
of Ooh, I did something fun today.
But then I also realized like mybrain automatically skips over
(02:56):
steps that feel like common sense.
So when I'm trying to teach a newteam member something and I'm like,
Oh, you just do this and this.
And they're like, wait, what?
I don't know what you just did.
And I'm like, Oh, but it was so simple.
And I realized there'shalf the steps missing.
Same thing for our clients.
There was one client that, anybody whoworks with ADHD clients, you'll love this.
She had boxes in her closet that shewould store like backstock makeup
(03:19):
and skincare and that kind of stuff.
But she got to the point where thingswould just pile, like most people
with ADHD, you know, pilers versusfilers, the whole conversation.
I told her, I was like, what if we changedout the boxes with lids for drawers?
And she was like, I don't knowif I want to spend the money
it doesn't seem worthwhile.
But she was essentially taking the thingsand setting them on top of the box.
It was the block of the lid.
(03:41):
Of open the lid, put the thinginside the lid, close the lid.
That did not work for her.
But the, pull the drawer, put it in,close the drawer, that worked for her.
That's ADHD.
People don't realize thatsomething that simple is ADHD.
And how it can affect theirlife of, this is a non organized
system versus an organized system.
Very simple tweak and change.
But that goes back to being adaptable.
(04:03):
You may not have a client whoeven knows that they have ADHD.
They may not have ever evenbeen self diagnosed from TikTok.
They may just be like, I don'tknow why these systems and these
processes don't work for me.
Guess what?
You have to be the personto figure that out for them.
Maybe not diagnose them, but say, hey,maybe this works a little bit better.
Let's see if this You know, let's seeif this would be easier to maintain or
better for the house or that's wherewe have to be very open minded and
(04:27):
willing to learn and willing to adjust.
If we are an organizer who walks into aclient's home and says, nope, you have
to have things in boxes with lids andnope, you have to have labels exactly
like this and nope, you have to makesure that this stays here and not there.
You're going to be one of those peoplewho will not make the five years.
Honestly, I totally agree withyou and that adaptability and that
(04:50):
flexibility is something that I preachfrom the mountaintops of working.
in a client's home.
It's not just about our businesses,but being able to look at that client
and be like, explain to me how youknow, explain to me how you learn,
explain to me how you do this.
Give me a little bit ofhow you do X, Y, Z system.
You can start asking those questionsand then getting a really good
(05:13):
idea of what works for them.
As we all know, there areI'm not going to get it.
Yep.
So that makes you a next level organizer.
(05:35):
Yes.
But my argument.
To anyone who is listening to thisis I would start to assume that every
potential client that is contacting youmight have an ADHD diagnosis or not.
That is, to me, you should assumethat they have it until you are
proven that they do not rather thangoing, Oh, I have this client that's
(05:56):
come to me and they have ADHD.
What do I do?
That is how I'm viewing it now.
That's a really good way to view it.
I actually like that.
It's almost everyone that comes to me now.
Almost everyone that is comingin is here's what's going on.
Do you feel
like you were attracting your clientsbecause you have ADHD and you know how
to speak to them in a way that registers?
And so they're naturallyjust drawn and attracted
(06:17):
to you.
Maybe I'm one of the TIkTok diagnose.
I have not gotten actually diagnosed,but I'm 100 percent positive.
I am also late life ADHD for 100reasons that we don't need to go into.
But possibly it is.
It's very possible.
I also think one of the big thingsis now people are very willing
(06:38):
to talk about these things.
I think people are much more open about.
I have a diagnosis of blah.
About pretty much anything, depression,anxiety, and we're much more open
about mental health concerns.
And so I think that people are verywilling to admit, Hey, I have ADHD and
or I have these things that are going on.
And so that is the opening of theconversation rather than something you
(07:00):
discover in the, I've been working withthis client for five sessions and that
they're just now telling me about this.
Yeah.
So people are much more blunt abouthere's what I've got going on.
So, but to answer your question, and Ijust did an ADHD thing is I just circled
around the question you originallyasked, which is maybe I am attracting
(07:22):
them because I just have the rightseries of things that I have said, or
they come to my website and they justconnect with something they have seen
there that they recognize in themselves.
Very possible.
My website is a little chaotic.
In a way that I enjoy.
I feel like
once I started talking aboutmy ADHD diagnosis, I had more
clients that the only way Iknow how to describe it is they.
(07:45):
registered and understood that crackheadsquirrel, like that lives in me.
Like they saw that and feltcomfortable and understood
by somebody from the outside.
And so, I don't know, we have had a lotmore clients that have had ADHD and I have
to assume there's some sort of correlation
there.
Yeah.
Very possible.
I also think that you shouldbe comfortable enough to
(08:07):
say, that's not something I'mcomfortable with dealing with.
That's also okay.
I would like to be clear about thatbecause there are some organizers that
is going to be a level of discomfort thatthey're not going to be able to deal with.
And so then that's another case where yougot to have referral partners of someone
who are like, yes, give me that challenge.
I will take it on.
Yes.
Cause I did have a client that came tome several weeks ago and she had worked
(08:32):
with another organizer who was 0 percent agood match for her and was very judgmental
about everything that she had going on.
And you know, I, she waslike, I can't do that.
Totally.
Okay.
But you gotta know who youare and serve those clients.
So.
Absolutely.
Can we talk about one ofyours and my favorite subjects
(08:53):
about organizing organizers?
Stop over complicating things, please.
Please stop overcomplicating thingsfor yourself, for your clients.
Please stop.
I think that there is a whole demographicof people and or organizers who don't
even realize that they're doing it.
(09:13):
And it's not till things stop working.
And it kind of goes back to that.
Maybe I'm overcomplicating things andmaybe that's why things are not working.
Maybe it's not even that ourindustry is changing as much.
Maybe we're the cause of the changes andwe're the ones that are the problems.
But yeah, man we like to beperfectionists and we like to do
things a very specific way, but thatcan sometimes cause us to be too into
(09:35):
the business or too into the industry.
And so for us, we say, yeah,organizing product and for somebody
who's not familiar with it.
They're like, but what is that?
I don't know.
And that's fair.
If you've never hired an organizerbefore, you shouldn't know.
You shouldn't know what to expect.
Same thing with, can wetalk about sales process?
Yeah.
(09:56):
Very long drawn out, complicatedsales process, whether that's
discounting packages or differentrates for different organizers.
And it's just messy.
And it's going to be hard for yourpotential clients to understand
it and wrap their head around it.
And if they're not wrapping their headaround it, they're not hiring you.
Clients
are overwhelmed, tired, theyhave tremendous decision fatigue.
(10:18):
If you are talking to a mom,they're just freaking tired.
They're tired.
Even if you have really goodpartner women still bear the
brunt of most household tasks.
So that's just reality.
If you make it really hard for them tomake a decision, they want as we like
to say, the big glittery easy button.
(10:40):
If you make it hard forthem, they are going to walk.
You have between 10 and 30 secondsif you're lucky to hook them.
Into your way of doing things oryour way of approaching things.
And if you have a website that is75 scrolls of you know, I've got
this package and this package andthis is they're out, they're gone.
(11:01):
Because they're also going toassume it's really complex to work
with you once you get on site.
Even
like this sound, and this isagain, another hill I will die on.
Yes, we have a website form andthat's where we prefer people
to submit inquiries through.
Yes.
If somebody reaches out on Instagramand says, Hey, I really want to do my
kitchen and pantry and laundry room.
(11:23):
I would feel like a jerk if Isent them a message back and said,
yes, please go to our website.
You need to fill out this form.
No.
you.
No.
You know what I do?
Is I'm like, yeah, love to.
When can we do the consult?
9 a.
m.
on Monday?
Great.
What's your home address?
What's your phone number?
What's your email?
Do I then go fill out the form for them?
Yes.
But as an organizer, it's myjob to make their life easier.
(11:43):
Not the other way around.
They're not here for me.
I'm here for them.
They don't care
about your rules.
Nope, they do not.
They just don't.
They just don't.
There was someone thatthere was an organizer.
This was a few years ago.
I was just trying toget in touch with them.
Literally just had to, I justhad a quick message I needed
to send them about something.
The only way to get in touch with them.
The only way.
(12:05):
Was their website form.
Their information was nowhereelse on their website.
It was their website form.
It had like 15 required questions, someof which were like paragraphs long.
And that was the only way thatyou could even contact them
to say something very simple.
So even though I just had a simple onesentence thing I needed to say to them,
I still had to click on every singlebutton because they were all required.
(12:28):
And it drove me bananas because I'm stilltalking about it several years later.
Don't do that to
people.
That's whenever you do the periodtab and then they have all these
Blank non existent required answers.
Exactly.
Also, they probably got excitedbecause they probably got an
email that said website inquiry.
And then I was the person that was like,Nope, I'm not actually a potential client.
(12:48):
So just to, it just caused a lot ofother problems, but yes, but over
complicating things in general,keep it simple for yourself, for
your potential clients or everyone.
I think people's patience.
I know we've talked a lot about likethings that have changed since COVID
people have no patience anymore.
Yep.
They're just cranky.
People are cranky.
Just make thingsexceedingly simple for them.
(13:09):
Just be like, I have it handled.
I have it handled.
I'm a very long term client who
she's traveling nonstop.
And she asked me to do a couplethings and I asked her a pretty simple
follow up question and she texted,she goes, girl, I don't give a crap.
And I was like, all right, messagereceived, not asking any more questions.
So just make it easy.
(13:32):
I love that.
That's a good rule of thumb.
Where do you feel likeorganizers are going?
If you had the crystal ball or themagic eight ball or whatever, what
do you think what are we going tobe talking about a year from now?
I definitely think you're ontosomething with the ADHD thing.
I think that will be huge just aspeople continue to self diagnose
or have resources to self diagnoseor actually get diagnosed.
(13:55):
I also think we're going to see wehave already seen the shift with luxury
organizing and we've talked about howit's different from the organizers
who were on hoarders 20 years ago.
But I think we're going to see a,maybe like a, it's more attainable
for average joes, you know?
(14:16):
And I think some of that toocomes down to just mindset of.
For me personally, I did notgrow up in a home where we hired
somebody to come clean our house.
That was a big no.
That was complete taboo.
But for me, in this stage oflife, in this stage of business,
that is an easy 200 every threeweeks that I am willing to pay.
I think you're going to see thatsame shift with other people.
(14:38):
Maybe people that don't recognizethe value that they can get from
organizing, or maybe they have neverbeen exposed to it, or it was maybe
even taboo of somebody's going tocome into your house and help you.
Organize your underwear drawer thosethings are going to slowly be broken
down over time and it's just going tobecome more normal to where it's oh, yep,
hired an organizer, pantry looks great.
That also by becoming more attainablefor other clients, you may see less of
(15:02):
this glamorous Khloe Kardashian pantry.
Which I was never a big fan of, ifwe're being like 1000 percent honest.
I think it just needs to be functional.
I think it needs to also lookpretty, but it can't just be
pretty and not functional.
I think we're going toget back to that is like.
Things have to be super, super functional.
They have to be easy to maintain.
They have to be less stress on you.
(15:23):
We're gonna get back to that and it'sgoing to be a revolution through homes
and through families of No, I don'tcare if it is absolutely glamorous and
a million matching bins and a millionmatching canisters It works and it's
simple and it's easy to maintain.
That's the core of where I think thingsare heading whether it's Organizers
(15:44):
who work with clients on a DIY basis,or if they come in and work in their
homes it's gonna become apparent.
I think too that it's going to, peopleare going, first of all, people are
more comfortable hiring people to dothings in your home, to your point.
I was awakened every Saturday bythe vacuum at a very early hour
and it was time to clean, right?
Like that, but people now arevery open to I'm going to hire a
(16:07):
handyman just to hang my pictures.
I'm going to hire a cleaning person.
I'm going to hire and recognizingthat there are services out there
for so many things that theymight have just done themselves.
And as you know, self care.
Mental health concerns,all of those things.
I do think that you are rightthat we are going to move away.
And this is probably also becauseof the shift on Instagram of
(16:27):
everything doesn't have to be perfect.
And there are people like domesticblisters on, instagram and Tik Tok I love
that woman so much and she just talksabout, you know, struggle care, like how
to basically the keep how to keep housewhile you're while your house is burning
and all of those things that, we just wantpeople to take better care of themselves.
And that means having functionalsystems, not gorgeous systems that
(16:50):
are impossible to actually maintain.
Yes.
I do think, too, that, there are a lotof people that are out there talking
about, you know, they're, we don't know.
We are not economists.
I do think that there is a better thanaverage chance that there will be, you
just look at trends in economics, likethere might be an economic slowdown.
There are a lot of thingshappening out there.
(17:10):
In the markets, but what we'realso always going to say is even in
financial challenges, there are alwaysgoing to be people that are still
interested in hiring services, stillinterested in having people in their
home, still interested in spendingmoney where it makes sense for them.
I think that's something that we'regoing to continue to see as well.
I'm super glad you mentioned thatbecause I think that can be a excuse.
(17:33):
That we as business owners, not justorganizers, but business owners fall
to when maybe we don't have a recordbreaking month or things are slow.
It's really easy to say politics, economy,you know, the water's green, whatever.
But that is our chance.
And I will, again, another hill.
I will, nobody hills.
(17:54):
I will die there on like when it slowsdown and it will, cause it always does.
Whether that is, you know, use a soloorganizer, use a team, when things
slow down, that is your chance.
That is your breath to rest and recoverif you have been going 90 miles an hour.
That is your chance to update systems,update handbooks, update training guides.
That's your chance to maybe launcha digital product or some other
(18:15):
sort of semi passive income.
Those slow down times are neededand they're not a bad thing.
And I just try to remind peoplethat's your time also, too, to like.
But also plant the seeds, do thethings that will get you more clients.
Maybe not tomorrow, but a year fromnow or six months from now, or three
months from now, do the things thatyou need to do to continue growing
(18:36):
your business, but also enjoy the restbecause it does not come often sometimes.
And so when it does come,it's good to take it.
I also think God universe, he has a wayof slowing us down if we do not slow down.
And that has always happened to meof I will be pushing and pushing.
And then I just get.
Miserably ill.
And I'm out for two weeks and that's himsaying, sit down, calm down, chill out.
(19:02):
If you so the podcast that I did inJanuary with Kim Snodgrass or early
February, Kim Snodgrass, who, youknow, I'm interviewing her every year
in her business, and there is onethat is, I called it safety corner
because she had something dangeroushappened to her on a job and she
goes, I wanted to take December off.
And the universe gave me areason to have December off.
(19:24):
She was like, I wanted to take Decemberoff, but she slogged through it.
She took a bunch ofclients, and guess what?
She didn't work in Decemberbecause of a combination of
things that happened to her.
She's just take the month off.
That's what I wanted to do.
I didn't listen to myself.
And I got it anyway.
So, yes, listen to yourself.
But have you seen that reel?
That is, it's actually oneof my favorite things.
It's someone who's man, I'mjust really I'm exhausted.
(19:46):
And then they're like, well,have you had enough water today?
No.
Have you exercised?
No.
Have you slept?
No.
Have you eaten?
Well, no.
It's like this series of things.
What could you be possibly doingthat is contributing to this?
That's one that I will say too,is when people say I'm slow, it's
the slowest time I've ever had.
When you start asking have you done this?
Have you done this?
Have you done this?
Have you done this?
(20:07):
They're like, no, I haven'tdone any of those things.
So we also have moretime than we think we do.
To be doing some of those thingsthat we are just sitting here in
a panic mode, which I understand,but you're in a panic mode.
And so your body is not goingHey, there are some things I could
do to help solve this problem.
Thanks for listening to thePro Organizer Studio Podcast.
(20:29):
I am Melissa, and I've had agreat time here with you today.
If you want more informationabout us, you can find us online
at proorganizerstudio.com.
Our Instagram is @proorganizerstudio.
You can email mehello@proorganizerstudio.com.
And you can get our brand new freeworkshop called How Professional
Organizers Can Get Clients WithoutUsing Social Media at poroadmap.com.
(20:55):
Thanks for joining us.
Have an awesome day organizers.
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