September 19, 2024 • 28 mins
Thank you to our special guest Cabri Carpenter for joining us for this entire week of podcast epsiodes!
Today the discussion dives into handling panic moments within the business, setting up pricing strategies, and creating systems to sustain through unexpected situations. We also explore the power of community, the essential tools and courses, and the importance of promoting niche services in your pro organizing business!
LINKS FOR LISTENERS
Check out Pro Organizer Studio: www.proorganizerstudio.com
Connect with Melissa: hello@proorganizerstudio.com
Learn more about Cabri: www.minimizethenorganize.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hey Pro Organizers, this is MelissaKlug and you are listening to
the Pro Organizer Studio Podcast.
Professional organizingchanged my entire life.
After 20 years of working athuge companies, I started working
for myself, opened an organizingbusiness and grew it to six figures.
And now I spend all day every dayhere at Pro Organizer Studio teaching
(00:23):
professional organizers around the worldhow to grow the business of their dreams.
I'm so excited that you're hereand I am ready to get started.
Okay.
It is the end, the last episode of ourwonderful week of Cabri Carpenter if
you have missed the other three episodesplease go back and listen to them.
(00:43):
But I wanted to thank Cabri for beinga huge part of what we do every single
day at Pro Organizer Studio and forsharing her wisdom with us I am going
to do a little bit of a loop of partof the last podcast, because we.
Move that into what we'retalking about today.
Basically, we're going to startby talking about how you can
not panic in your business.
I know it's hard, but sometimes, uh,sometimes we reach those panic moments
(01:06):
and Cabri, and I are talking about it.
I appreciate you listeningto the podcast we adore you.
And if there's anything we cando for you, please let us know.
hello@proorganizerstudio.com.
All right.
Here we go.
But have you seen that reel?
That is, it's actually oneof my favorite things.
It's someone who's man, I'mjust really I'm exhausted.
(01:26):
And then they're like, well,have you had enough water today?
No.
Have you exercised?
No.
Have you slept?
No.
Have you eaten?
Well, no.
It's like this series of things.
What could you be possibly doingthat is contributing to this?
That's one that I will say too,is when people say I'm slow, it's
the slowest time I've ever had.
When you start asking have you done this?
Have you done this?
Have you done this?
Have you done this?
(01:47):
They're like, no, I haven'tdone any of those things.
So we also have moretime than we think we do.
To be doing some of those thingsthat we are just sitting here in
a panic mode, which I understand,but you're in a panic mode.
And so your body is not goingHey, there are some things I could
do to help solve this problem.
And that's one of the, that's oneof our jobs to push people on.
(02:09):
Yes.
Have you done the things side
caveat?
Because I would not be doingmy job with this podcast if I
don't at least mention this.
We teach organizers how not topanic when those slow times come.
Correct.
How to set up package pricing orproposal pricing or different ways to
price yourself so that you can create alittle bit of a nest egg if you randomly
(02:32):
get sick, if your team randomly getssick, if you have a family emergency.
And those are things that, again,not being talked about out in the
real world or in the business worldof it does not always have to be a
Panic in those situations, you cancreate systems where you are selling
packages that you might not work untilJanuary, like in Kim's situation, but
she's still getting paid in December.
(02:52):
Yes.
There's opportunities for those.
And so, sorry, I had to throwthat in there because I like that.
That's a good segue, actually,because what I will frequently
tell people is take one day topanic and just have a freak out.
Okay.
Take a day.
Go take yourself out and getdinner or like whatever you need
to do have the freak out day.
But then we're going to have a,then we're going to say, what are
(03:13):
we going to do to go fight this?
We are never, ever going to have a timewhere we go, yeah, that's tough for you.
Good luck.
I had way back in one of my corporatedays, I worked for this guy.
Who he was the vice president of theentire division, his job was to do
everything in the division and you wouldbring him a problem, a legitimate problem.
(03:36):
And he would look at you andhe would listen and he go, and
then at the end he would laugh.
This was 100 percent of the time he'dlaugh and he go, I just don't know how
you get yourself in those situations.
Good luck with that.
And you were dismissed.
He never helped.
Ever.
That is not what we do in our group.
We are going to be like, totallyunderstand why you feel that way.
(03:56):
Here is what we want you to think about.
Here are actions we suggest that you take.
Here are the things like, we're nevergoing to go, good luck with that problem.
And that is.
That's one of the things we wantedto talk about is there are a lot of
people that don't realize we have thispodcast and a lot of people listen to
the podcast and they don't know like weoffer a lot of different things to help
people in their business because we don'twant people to be on the struggle bus.
(04:19):
We do not want you to nothave clients coming in.
We do not want you to be like, whatam I supposed to be doing here?
What, how am I supposedto do X, Y, Z thing?
We help you with the X, Y, Z things.
It's really important to us.
And it's
again, this is probably one of thethings I can see you're passionate about.
It's exciting.
(04:40):
It's exciting to have feedback witha business owner who may be doing
things differently than you would andyou get to say, Hey, that's a good
idea, but have you done it this way?
Or have you made sure you're plantingyour seeds and communicating the
value that you bring for this?
Or maybe you have a service thatis super niche unique to you.
Let's call it likeHomeschooling moms for dummies.
(05:02):
Like moms who are homeschooling,but managing a household.
Like you may have this supersimple thing, but you never talk
about it on your website, in youremail newsletter, on social media.
And we're just like, Hey, promote this.
Put it out there.
If we don't see it when we lookat your website or your social
media channels, none of yourpotential clients are seeing it.
And this could be a very quick influx ofsome cash and teach them how to do the
(05:22):
thing or do the zoom call with them orgive them a digital course or there's
so many opportunities to make money.
So many.
Going back to talking about whoyou are, and we will help you
think through all of these things.
Are you a mom of a kid with special needs?
There is room out there for you.
Are you an ADHD mom?
(05:44):
Are you an ADHD non mom?
This is another thingthat's really important.
Maybe you are, we talk a lot aboutserving moms in this group maybe you
are not a mom, and maybe you are notmarried, and maybe you are not, all of
these things that you think everybody is.
You need to talk about that too, becausethere are a lot of people out there
that are like, hey I want the personwho is very aligned with where I am.
(06:08):
I don't want the organizer that's goingto come talk to me about my kids and their
Legos, whatever that looks like for you.
It is very much wide open to veryspecific niches that you have.
But you've got to talk about who you are.
It's your secret sauce.
It's the magic that makes you whoyou are and your business what it is.
And it's going to be the thing thatpast website copy and social media
(06:30):
graph sites and all the other things,that's going to be the thing that
they're like, yep, take my money.
You're hired.
And that is why we do what we do.
And that's why we want peopleto know a little bit more.
We're doing this partiallybecause we want people to know
we offer a lot of these services,whatever you are struggling with.
And I'm going to talk a little bit moreabout that in a minute, but I'm going
to talk a little bit more about how youcan do this in your organizing business.
(06:50):
We are passionate about helpingyou find a way out of it.
And we're going to do that witha combination of ideas, but it's
also going to be, like you said,holding people accountable, a little
bit of tough love, a little bitof, have you thought about this?
Have you thought about this?
You are not going to be alone.
And that's one thing that I think isincredibly important is you have got
to know that you have people that areout there on your side that want you.
(07:11):
So I might want you to succeedmore than you want you to succeed.
That is a
Real thing that I sometimeshave to detach myself from.
When we are working with specificorganizers who you're coaching and
training and you're walking throughthe trenches with them, and you have
to step out of the trench, showeroff, and you'd be like, They're
going to do what they're going to do.
(07:32):
I have helped as far as I can help.
I can stand here and loveon them from the sidelines.
That's the real thing.
Absolutely.
So, I am very grateful though.
Like even if there are people who decidethat all they ever want to do is listen
to the podcast and they, you know,they don't need any additional help.
They just love listening to the podcast.
(07:53):
I'm so grateful for everyone thatpays attention and that are just
trying to make their businesses.
Better like legitimately, like I getemails from people that are like, Oh my
gosh, I just love the podcast so much.
And first of all, thank you for sendingthose because every once in a while, you
just think I might be talking to myself.
And so it was really, it'svery enjoyable to hear.
(08:14):
There are people who likereally appreciate hearing
what we have to say, but.
If you are in a place where you feel like,Hey, I need that extra level, whether
you've been in business five years,we have people in our group that have
been in business for 20 years and stillare learning and growing in our group.
If you are brand newthere is a place for you.
And Cabri and I are happyto talk to you live.
(08:35):
I rarely talk to people on thephone, but I will talk to people.
I don't think the phoneshould be used as a phone.
That's another podcast, but I lovetalking to people about give me the lay
of the land at what you're dealing with.
And let me figure out if I have a wayto help you because like I said, I just
want people to succeed and I think bothof us, my life has been changed because
(08:57):
of organizing my professional life,my personal life, all of those things.
And I am just so passionate abouttalking to people about if this is
something that is in your heart andyou really feel passionate about.
I want you to figure out a way to do it.
The end.
The end.
No, we're not done.
Okay.
Just kidding, not the end.
(09:17):
JK.
You don't get to call the end.
I'm calling the end today.
Sorry about you.
Okay, fine.
Okay, so we talked aboutgrowth and evolution.
Yes.
For Organizer Studio.
So, let's talk about, and I'm gonnalet you Be the storyteller here, but
let's talk about, we've talked aboutjust things in organizing industry
as a whole, but like, where is ProOrganizer Studio, Inspired Organizer,
(09:39):
the Organizing Essentials course, theGoogle My Business, sorry, Google Business
Manager.
They shouldn't have changedthe name, the new name.
It's so hard.
It's hard to say and I don't like it.
Let's talk about
where Pro Organizer Studio as awhole is and some of the other little
pieces of that, what that lookslike over, over the next year or so.
Yeah.
(10:00):
So a lot of people find us becauseof the podcast, we have people that,
you know, the podcast has been theirentree into, organizing or thinking
about an organizing business and allof that, but pro organizer studio.
So the podcast started in 2019, but proorganizer studio started with Jen in 2016.
She had an organizing businessand she saw, there was a gap
(10:22):
of education about how to start.
This really great businessin a great industry.
And so she was really the OG of teaching.
But Jen started Pro Organizer Studio.
She had a small set ofstudents in the beginning.
It has grown really quite tremendouslyover the years, which we are so grateful
for people that put the trust in us, butwe have to evolve just like any business.
(10:46):
And now I am taking the mantle ofmaking sure that we can move into
the next 10 years of the organizingindustry and do that in a way
that really helps women figure outwhat kind of business they want.
So it used to just be that ProOrganizer Studio had one thing
and it was Inspired Organizer
that was the originalthat's it's our signature.
(11:08):
But Inspired Organizer isa business building course.
It teaches you a system forgrowing and organizing business.
That was always the oneproduct that we had.
One of the reasons that Jen hiredme originally was because I have
a very particular passion foractually organizing with clients.
I am so into, I lovetalking about organizing.
(11:30):
I love actually organizing.
But one of my first jobs was tostart something called Organizing
Essentials, and that was somethingthat people had asked for a long time.
So it's not about business building.
It is just about what the heck do Ido when the client opens the door.
And there is pure chaos behind that door.
We all know those people.
(11:51):
So that is something that I am super,super proud of because it was really
something that I was able to get.
It was part of a creative outlet for me.
But really it was something thatpeople had been asking us for a long
time is I want an organizing course.
I want you to teach mewhat do I do with clients.
How do I do certain things?
How do I design a closet?
(12:11):
What if a client asked me to do this?
What if a client needsme to organize this?
We really get into the deep.
Details of actually organizing.
Then we also know that there are otherparts of organizing that need education.
So one of the things that peoplereally struggle with is their CRM.
So we teach people, if you want touse HoneyBook, but you are like, Hey.
(12:36):
Remember, we might not be supertechie, or we just want to do that
little easy done for you button.
We will teach you how to doyour CRM from top to bottom.
We also are starting a lot of new thingswith, I just called the mini courses.
So the first one that I tried out wasabout Google business profile, and 19
(12:58):
course that taught you every singlething you could possibly need to know.
About Google business profile andhow to use it in your business.
So what we want is a whole suiteof products, a whole suite of
things that will help you with yourorganizing business, whether you need
a little bit of help or whether youwant a lot more help and a lot more
support and a community behind you.
(13:20):
So we are trying to learn andgrow what our audience needs.
And I am always open to emails,DMs, anything like that.
Talking about Hey, I love this, buthave you ever thought about this?
Because our job is to serve theorganizing industry and make sure that
we are offering everything out therethat helps you with your business.
(13:42):
I feel like I'm doing a disserviceif I don't mention this, but the
ways that you have created the manycourses, they can kind of build on
each other as new things come up.
If Google completely shifts tomorrow,what that looks like, or they decide
to make you Google business profile.
A social media platform with afeed and like they're already
kind of pushing towards that.
(14:03):
I have no doubt that you will be on thecutting edge of here's the new updates.
Here's what they changed.
Here's what this looks like.
Here's how you can use,utilize it in your business.
Here's how you can optimizeit to find new clients.
And I think that those things are reallyimportant because you pay attention to
those things and you know them, you aretechie, you are very techie, and you're
always on the cutting edge of whateverthat new next thing might be, whether
(14:26):
it's a platform or a CRM, or even justa strategy and technique, like I have
seen you talk about something in thegroup, and then two weeks later, there's
a module in the course talking aboutXYZ, that maybe we had not ever heard of.
Thought about to talk aboutpreviously, you know, and so it covers
like ways to grow your business.
It covers that people aspect of what doI do when I'm actually standing there?
(14:47):
And maybe this is the first client andI don't know what I'm actually supposed
to do, but it also covers the grow ateam at a CRM, how to build my business,
how it is an over encompassing resourcewhen it comes to ways that organizers
can continue to grow and thrive.
And I think too, likeit's important to mention.
You give so, so, so much free advice,whether that is like Instagram DMs, or
(15:13):
in the Facebook group, or on the podcast,like you give so much, and if I wish
I don't have a magic ball, but if Ihad just like a set of binoculars that
I could hand to somebody and be like,just take a peek inside the paid stuff.
If you're getting all this forfree take a look at that and think
about how much value is there.
I don't gatekeep anythingin our, inside our group.
(15:37):
There's nothing that's gateexample, I love doing presentations.
I would talk to arutabaga about organizing.
Okay I don't know why I picked rutabagabecause I'm not sure I could pick one
of those out of the grocery store.
But anyway, I'm reallypassionate about that.
And so there are peoplethat are in our group.
They're like, Oh my gosh, I wasjust asked to speak at a thing.
I don't even know what to do.
I'm like, here is a whole presentationthat I have already put together for you.
(15:58):
You can use all the slides.
I was someone on their socialmedia the other day, like I said,
Oh, I'm giving a presentation.
I go, Oh, that's my slide.
Literally you just take my stuffand you can just repurpose it rather
than rebuilding it on your own.
And that's the biggest thing for me isespecially about Inspired Organizer I
feel so strongly that like you only haveto have one client that you ever get
(16:20):
from one client pays for a lifetime,literal lifetime membership in our
course, and you get things all the time.
So my goal would be that you repaythat this course repays you so many
times you can't even do that math.
Because you, whatever it isthat you are needing, someone
(16:42):
is available to give it to you.
The other day someone gave, andit's not just me giving things.
Someone was asking the other day aboutHey, I really want to focus on realtors.
I, I really want to do X, Y,Z, this presentation for them.
Someone goes, I have apresentation that I give realtors.
I'll send it to you.
Just send me your email address.
And 10 people are like,Hey, can you send it to me?
She did.
(17:03):
And I just think that's really beautiful.
Like the people in the group are sogiving of their advice, their time,
their links to organizing supplies.
You know, we're not gatekeeping, youknow, the best organizing supplies.
We're not gatekeepinganything in our group.
And that is one thing that Ijust absolutely love about it.
(17:23):
I agree.
And I, so it's been.
We haven't even talked, wehave not even scratched the
surface on the community aspect.
We've talked about this Facebook group,but when I say the Facebook group is
active and constantly people are postingnew things, whether it's, Hey, look
over my website and tell me if youthink I should fix something, or, Hey,
I have this client that has red flags.
(17:45):
How do I tell them I don'twant to work with them?
Or, Hey, my.
Sales have gone down.
I don't know what's wrong, andmaybe I'm doing consults wrong.
There's so much information in thegroup that is a complete separate
entity from the course itself.
But there is power in community, andI don't know what episode it is, but
Sarah and I did episode It's early.
(18:06):
Yeah, it's an early episode.
It's years, but part of the reason thatwe even did that episode is because we
were matched as accountability partners.
So, it's another aspect of the communitythat you can get matched with somebody
who is in the same stage of businessor same niche or you can get grouped
with somebody who will help hold youaccountable and that to us was Huge.
(18:29):
I think that's another thing that helpswith your longevity is finding people.
Who know what you're going throughthe good things and the tough things.
Yes.
And that community is seriously.
It's so, and by the way,we do fun things too.
Like on Fridays, I like to askpeople, tell me good things
that happened to you this week.
Even if it's just I had agood cup of coffee today.
Like it does not have to be the biggestclient I've ever had my entire life.
(18:51):
Right.
But then there are people who sharethis was my first 10, 000 a month.
Or I just had my first consultwith a total stranger, someone who
wasn't a friend or a family member.
You know, we just, we celebrate bigthings and we celebrate small things
because they're all freaking important.
They're all important.
I
really think like thecommunity piece of it is huge.
(19:13):
Like the modules and the actualeducation is a big thing.
And that's the piece that people want.
That's the piece.
That you're gonna sell and put a price on.
That's what they pay for, right?
Exactly.
But the added benefit of thegroup and the community that's
your thing that's priceless.
You couldn't put a numberon that because that's how
important it is.
Also, we're fun.
(19:34):
I mean we are so
much fun.
We're so much fun.
I was telling a really personalstory in the group the other
day and everybody was dying.
I don't want to share it on here,but this will not make this a family
friendly podcast, but it was justso funny because everybody was like,
Oh my gosh, totally been there.
Or they're like, Oh my God,how did you handle that?
And I'm like, right, this is what I mean.
You get.
(19:55):
The struggles behind running abusiness, being an organizer, the
things you see with clients intheir home, like y'all get it.
And so it's good to have those peoplethat you can come back to and bounce
ideas off of, or ask, you know, helpfor, or just have a community with.
We also do a live zoom once a month.
So if you have something that youneed live in person, like face to
(20:15):
face coaching on, we do that too.
And sometimes you get somegreat stories from that.
I will send people, if you email meand you want to see an example of
one, I will be happy to send you one.
But we had one I can't remember if thisis for organizing essentials or IO now
that I come to think of it, but we doa zoom once a month for both courses.
And there was a woman who talkedabout, she had a police officer
(20:36):
that was supervising her organizingclient because they were getting
divorced and they needed supervision.
And I'm like whoa.
We're gonna have to tellplease, let's back up.
Rewind.
You are glossing over a lot.
Let's tell that story.
Right.
So we were able to talk about it,by the way, had a happy ending.
Everything was fine.
But there is nothing when I saythere is nothing that you can
bring to that group that we willnot talk about and talk through.
(20:58):
Anything, bring it up and we willbe there for you and we might,
like you said, we might care aboutthe outcome more than you do.
Oh, multiple times, you know, in somemonths where I like see a post and
then a couple of days later I'm like,I don't even know what happened there.
And I have to go back and find it and belike, hello, can you please update us?
Can we please have an update?
I need a story update.
(21:20):
I'm very curious.
I need to know all the things.
Yes.
I love knowing all the things.
Side note, I really want to start,this would not be proper, but I really
want to start a podcast that is allanonymous of like people's client stories.
You couldn't do it
anonymously because we know your
voice.
Yeah.
I'd have to, I'd have to do somethingdifferent, but I want people to
(21:42):
come on and tell their craziestclient stories because there are
some good ones out there, man.
There is.
There is.
This is a never a dull momentkind of work in a great way.
We
gotta add it to our list of futurethings that we, you know, continually
have to do.
That I don't have time for.
I know.
We always have these conversationsof Oh, we should do this.
Just kidding.
None of us have time for that.
(22:02):
You know, only if we didn't need to sleep.
So, this is.
It's, you know, and wewant to come on here.
This is not a sales pitch byany stretch of the imagination.
This is just a, we want people, you know,we've done a lot of work of, relaunching
rebranding re, you know, this is kindof a renaissance of Pro Organizer Studio
as we move into the next few years.
(22:24):
And we just want to tell peoplewe have resources out there.
So if there's something thatyou are struggling with.
Come to us.
Ask some questions because we have thingsthat will help you and we want you to
succeed and we want you to have thatROI because we are financially savvy.
We care about your finances.
We want you to have successful businesses.
(22:45):
I want people to pay themselves.
I want people to have the goalsof, whatever their financial
goals are or their personalgoals are for their business.
I want you to go succeed in thoseand I want to help you get there.
So.
so much.
I don't think you couldwrap that up any better.
Well, thanks.
See, she's a good hype woman, you guys.
You need her on your side.
(23:06):
I am super glad that you mentioned nota sales pitch, but also you, I'm not
lying, you give so much informationfor free I would be doing you and
other organizers a disservice if Idid not be like, Hey, you need this.
It has so much value in it.
Thank you.
I don't know how to argue.
We do.
I mean, I teach peoplehow to sell things, right?
(23:27):
Like I want you to sell yourorganizing business, not sell.
I want you to get clientsis what I'm trying to say.
I also would not be doing my jobif I didn't say, I also have things
that I sell that can help you.
Yes.
Just like organizing services help people.
And trust me, I'm a lot lessexpensive than organizing services.
A lot.
(23:48):
True.
I charge a lot less money for myservices than you do for yours.
So.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So the wrap up is Pro OrganizerStudio has lots of things to
offer, lots of changes coming.
Cabri and I are going to be out theretalking about it on social media.
(24:09):
We are going to be talking about itall over the place and we are open.
For questions, comments unsolicitedadvice, feedback phone calls, DMs,
emails, whatever it looks like, we arehere because we want you to succeed.
No phone calls, but all the otherthings are open and available.
(24:29):
And honestly, too, this is anotherthing of sometimes we have those
people who have zero interest in.
Purchasing a course or maybe they'renot going to become an organizer.
They just really love organizing.
They will ask some of the likemost off the wall questions that
us as organizers were like, well,man, we haven't thought about that.
Like we need to createa resource for that.
Or we need to, you know, talkabout this a little bit more.
(24:51):
And so even feedback kind offrom the outside world, whether
you're on the fence, whetheryou're already an organizer, like.
The feedback, the questions you ask,like those give us more insight into
the life of an organizer and ways thatmight need to be connected to some help
or some resource or some missing gap.
And so I love the feedback.
I love going back andlooking through comments.
(25:13):
I love when some of thosepeople that come on strong and
you're like, I like the passion.
Let's talk about it.
Let's do it.
Absolutely.
Well, and our job is to serve you.
And so there are, and we can't possiblyknow every situation that's out there.
So if you have something that youare going through, please bring it
to us and just say, Hey, I've neverheard you guys talk about blah.
(25:33):
I had someone the other day, pitch mesomething on a podcast, as a podcast idea.
And she goes, I just neverhear you talk about this thing.
And I go, cool.
How about you come on and talk about it?
She's Oh, no, I didn't mean me.
And I'm like, well, too late.
It's you.
Be careful.
You start offering up advice.
We're also going to make yoube the one to give it to us.
Right.
But
(25:53):
I appreciated that because she was justsaying I always hear you talk about this,
but I never hear you talk about this.
And I go, you're absolutely right.
So let's talk about it.
So we are we are really opento hearing what the people that
listen to us want to talk about.
And I really mean this fromthe bottom of my heart.
I am not just saying this.
I appreciate people who listen tomy voice because sometimes I go,
(26:17):
why does anyone listen to my voice?
But I appreciate people that tune inevery single week and that really just
want to be better in their business.
And so any way that we canhelp you, we want to be there.
It's a great ending.
Now, can I say the end?
Now you can say the end.
You said you were going to say the end.
So
(26:38):
no, I don't think I want to.
You summed it up so well a second ago thatI was like, there's no need for me here.
Okay.
Well, we look forwardto seeing more of Cabri.
If you want to connect with her,she is Minimize Then Organize.
She is quite, she and her team.
Not just her, because you havehilarious people on your team too.
They are just lovely on socialmedia and I am just excited to
(27:02):
see what you have going on in yourorganizing business this year too.
And I'm happy to have a, happy tohave a like ringside seat for it.
Oh,
same in reverse.
I can be on the ringsideseat of this, all of this.
I have had so much fun on the week ofCabri and I hope that you did as well.
I am very fortunate to get Cabri everyday in our Inspired Organizer group.
(27:25):
And you can too, we would loveto coach you in your business.
Whether you have been a businessfor 15 minutes or 15 years, we
have wonderful things for you.
Please contact me athello@proorganizerstudio.com.
If you would like to have a zoomwith me about what kind of things
we can do to help your business.
(27:45):
You can join us for a brandnew workshop also called How
Professional Organizers Can GetClients WIthout Using Social Media.
That is at poroadmap.com..
All right.
Thank you as always for listeningto the Pro Organizer Studio Podcast.
And I hope that you have anabsolutely spectacular day.
Hey Pro Organizers, this is MelissaKlug and you are listening to
the Pro Organizer Studio Podcast.
Professional organizingchanged my entire life.
After 20 years of working athuge companies, I started working
for myself, opened an organizingbusiness and grew it to six figures.
And now I spend all day every dayhere at Pro Organizer Studio teaching
(00:23):
professional organizers around the worldhow to grow the business of their dreams.
I'm so excited that you're hereand I am ready to get started.
Okay.
It is the end, the last episode of ourwonderful week of Cabri Carpenter if
you have missed the other three episodesplease go back and listen to them.
(00:43):
But I wanted to thank Cabri for beinga huge part of what we do every single
day at Pro Organizer Studio and forsharing her wisdom with us I am going
to do a little bit of a loop of partof the last podcast, because we.
Move that into what we'retalking about today.
Basically, we're going to startby talking about how you can
not panic in your business.
I know it's hard, but sometimes, uh,sometimes we reach those panic moments
(01:06):
and Cabri, and I are talking about it.
I appreciate you listeningto the podcast we adore you.
And if there's anything we cando for you, please let us know.
hello@proorganizerstudio.com.
All right.
Here we go.
But have you seen that reel?
That is, it's actually oneof my favorite things.
It's someone who's man, I'mjust really I'm exhausted.
(01:26):
And then they're like, well,have you had enough water today?
No.
Have you exercised?
No.
Have you slept?
No.
Have you eaten?
Well, no.
It's like this series of things.
What could you be possibly doingthat is contributing to this?
That's one that I will say too,is when people say I'm slow, it's
the slowest time I've ever had.
When you start asking have you done this?
Have you done this?
Have you done this?
Have you done this?
(01:47):
They're like, no, I haven'tdone any of those things.
So we also have moretime than we think we do.
To be doing some of those thingsthat we are just sitting here in
a panic mode, which I understand,but you're in a panic mode.
And so your body is not goingHey, there are some things I could
do to help solve this problem.
And that's one of the, that's oneof our jobs to push people on.
(02:09):
Yes.
Have you done the things side
caveat?
Because I would not be doingmy job with this podcast if I
don't at least mention this.
We teach organizers how not topanic when those slow times come.
Correct.
How to set up package pricing orproposal pricing or different ways to
price yourself so that you can create alittle bit of a nest egg if you randomly
(02:32):
get sick, if your team randomly getssick, if you have a family emergency.
And those are things that, again,not being talked about out in the
real world or in the business worldof it does not always have to be a
Panic in those situations, you cancreate systems where you are selling
packages that you might not work untilJanuary, like in Kim's situation, but
she's still getting paid in December.
(02:52):
Yes.
There's opportunities for those.
And so, sorry, I had to throwthat in there because I like that.
That's a good segue, actually,because what I will frequently
tell people is take one day topanic and just have a freak out.
Okay.
Take a day.
Go take yourself out and getdinner or like whatever you need
to do have the freak out day.
But then we're going to have a,then we're going to say, what are
(03:13):
we going to do to go fight this?
We are never, ever going to have a timewhere we go, yeah, that's tough for you.
Good luck.
I had way back in one of my corporatedays, I worked for this guy.
Who he was the vice president of theentire division, his job was to do
everything in the division and you wouldbring him a problem, a legitimate problem.
(03:36):
And he would look at you andhe would listen and he go, and
then at the end he would laugh.
This was 100 percent of the time he'dlaugh and he go, I just don't know how
you get yourself in those situations.
Good luck with that.
And you were dismissed.
He never helped.
Ever.
That is not what we do in our group.
We are going to be like, totallyunderstand why you feel that way.
(03:56):
Here is what we want you to think about.
Here are actions we suggest that you take.
Here are the things like, we're nevergoing to go, good luck with that problem.
And that is.
That's one of the things we wantedto talk about is there are a lot of
people that don't realize we have thispodcast and a lot of people listen to
the podcast and they don't know like weoffer a lot of different things to help
people in their business because we don'twant people to be on the struggle bus.
(04:19):
We do not want you to nothave clients coming in.
We do not want you to be like, whatam I supposed to be doing here?
What, how am I supposedto do X, Y, Z thing?
We help you with the X, Y, Z things.
It's really important to us.
And it's
again, this is probably one of thethings I can see you're passionate about.
It's exciting.
(04:40):
It's exciting to have feedback witha business owner who may be doing
things differently than you would andyou get to say, Hey, that's a good
idea, but have you done it this way?
Or have you made sure you're plantingyour seeds and communicating the
value that you bring for this?
Or maybe you have a service thatis super niche unique to you.
Let's call it likeHomeschooling moms for dummies.
(05:02):
Like moms who are homeschooling,but managing a household.
Like you may have this supersimple thing, but you never talk
about it on your website, in youremail newsletter, on social media.
And we're just like, Hey, promote this.
Put it out there.
If we don't see it when we lookat your website or your social
media channels, none of yourpotential clients are seeing it.
And this could be a very quick influx ofsome cash and teach them how to do the
(05:22):
thing or do the zoom call with them orgive them a digital course or there's
so many opportunities to make money.
So many.
Going back to talking about whoyou are, and we will help you
think through all of these things.
Are you a mom of a kid with special needs?
There is room out there for you.
Are you an ADHD mom?
(05:44):
Are you an ADHD non mom?
This is another thingthat's really important.
Maybe you are, we talk a lot aboutserving moms in this group maybe you
are not a mom, and maybe you are notmarried, and maybe you are not, all of
these things that you think everybody is.
You need to talk about that too, becausethere are a lot of people out there
that are like, hey I want the personwho is very aligned with where I am.
(06:08):
I don't want the organizer that's goingto come talk to me about my kids and their
Legos, whatever that looks like for you.
It is very much wide open to veryspecific niches that you have.
But you've got to talk about who you are.
It's your secret sauce.
It's the magic that makes you whoyou are and your business what it is.
And it's going to be the thing thatpast website copy and social media
(06:30):
graph sites and all the other things,that's going to be the thing that
they're like, yep, take my money.
You're hired.
And that is why we do what we do.
And that's why we want peopleto know a little bit more.
We're doing this partiallybecause we want people to know
we offer a lot of these services,whatever you are struggling with.
And I'm going to talk a little bit moreabout that in a minute, but I'm going
to talk a little bit more about how youcan do this in your organizing business.
(06:50):
We are passionate about helpingyou find a way out of it.
And we're going to do that witha combination of ideas, but it's
also going to be, like you said,holding people accountable, a little
bit of tough love, a little bitof, have you thought about this?
Have you thought about this?
You are not going to be alone.
And that's one thing that I think isincredibly important is you have got
to know that you have people that areout there on your side that want you.
(07:11):
So I might want you to succeedmore than you want you to succeed.
That is a
Real thing that I sometimeshave to detach myself from.
When we are working with specificorganizers who you're coaching and
training and you're walking throughthe trenches with them, and you have
to step out of the trench, showeroff, and you'd be like, They're
going to do what they're going to do.
(07:32):
I have helped as far as I can help.
I can stand here and loveon them from the sidelines.
That's the real thing.
Absolutely.
So, I am very grateful though.
Like even if there are people who decidethat all they ever want to do is listen
to the podcast and they, you know,they don't need any additional help.
They just love listening to the podcast.
(07:53):
I'm so grateful for everyone thatpays attention and that are just
trying to make their businesses.
Better like legitimately, like I getemails from people that are like, Oh my
gosh, I just love the podcast so much.
And first of all, thank you for sendingthose because every once in a while, you
just think I might be talking to myself.
And so it was really, it'svery enjoyable to hear.
(08:14):
There are people who likereally appreciate hearing
what we have to say, but.
If you are in a place where you feel like,Hey, I need that extra level, whether
you've been in business five years,we have people in our group that have
been in business for 20 years and stillare learning and growing in our group.
If you are brand newthere is a place for you.
And Cabri and I are happyto talk to you live.
(08:35):
I rarely talk to people on thephone, but I will talk to people.
I don't think the phoneshould be used as a phone.
That's another podcast, but I lovetalking to people about give me the lay
of the land at what you're dealing with.
And let me figure out if I have a wayto help you because like I said, I just
want people to succeed and I think bothof us, my life has been changed because
(08:57):
of organizing my professional life,my personal life, all of those things.
And I am just so passionate abouttalking to people about if this is
something that is in your heart andyou really feel passionate about.
I want you to figure out a way to do it.
The end.
The end.
No, we're not done.
Okay.
Just kidding, not the end.
(09:17):
JK.
You don't get to call the end.
I'm calling the end today.
Sorry about you.
Okay, fine.
Okay, so we talked aboutgrowth and evolution.
Yes.
For Organizer Studio.
So, let's talk about, and I'm gonnalet you Be the storyteller here, but
let's talk about, we've talked aboutjust things in organizing industry
as a whole, but like, where is ProOrganizer Studio, Inspired Organizer,
(09:39):
the Organizing Essentials course, theGoogle My Business, sorry, Google Business
Manager.
They shouldn't have changedthe name, the new name.
It's so hard.
It's hard to say and I don't like it.
Let's talk about
where Pro Organizer Studio as awhole is and some of the other little
pieces of that, what that lookslike over, over the next year or so.
Yeah.
(10:00):
So a lot of people find us becauseof the podcast, we have people that,
you know, the podcast has been theirentree into, organizing or thinking
about an organizing business and allof that, but pro organizer studio.
So the podcast started in 2019, but proorganizer studio started with Jen in 2016.
She had an organizing businessand she saw, there was a gap
(10:22):
of education about how to start.
This really great businessin a great industry.
And so she was really the OG of teaching.
But Jen started Pro Organizer Studio.
She had a small set ofstudents in the beginning.
It has grown really quite tremendouslyover the years, which we are so grateful
for people that put the trust in us, butwe have to evolve just like any business.
(10:46):
And now I am taking the mantle ofmaking sure that we can move into
the next 10 years of the organizingindustry and do that in a way
that really helps women figure outwhat kind of business they want.
So it used to just be that ProOrganizer Studio had one thing
and it was Inspired Organizer
that was the originalthat's it's our signature.
(11:08):
But Inspired Organizer isa business building course.
It teaches you a system forgrowing and organizing business.
That was always the oneproduct that we had.
One of the reasons that Jen hiredme originally was because I have
a very particular passion foractually organizing with clients.
I am so into, I lovetalking about organizing.
(11:30):
I love actually organizing.
But one of my first jobs was tostart something called Organizing
Essentials, and that was somethingthat people had asked for a long time.
So it's not about business building.
It is just about what the heck do Ido when the client opens the door.
And there is pure chaos behind that door.
We all know those people.
(11:51):
So that is something that I am super,super proud of because it was really
something that I was able to get.
It was part of a creative outlet for me.
But really it was something thatpeople had been asking us for a long
time is I want an organizing course.
I want you to teach mewhat do I do with clients.
How do I do certain things?
How do I design a closet?
(12:11):
What if a client asked me to do this?
What if a client needsme to organize this?
We really get into the deep.
Details of actually organizing.
Then we also know that there are otherparts of organizing that need education.
So one of the things that peoplereally struggle with is their CRM.
So we teach people, if you want touse HoneyBook, but you are like, Hey.
(12:36):
Remember, we might not be supertechie, or we just want to do that
little easy done for you button.
We will teach you how to doyour CRM from top to bottom.
We also are starting a lot of new thingswith, I just called the mini courses.
So the first one that I tried out wasabout Google business profile, and 19
(12:58):
course that taught you every singlething you could possibly need to know.
About Google business profile andhow to use it in your business.
So what we want is a whole suiteof products, a whole suite of
things that will help you with yourorganizing business, whether you need
a little bit of help or whether youwant a lot more help and a lot more
support and a community behind you.
(13:20):
So we are trying to learn andgrow what our audience needs.
And I am always open to emails,DMs, anything like that.
Talking about Hey, I love this, buthave you ever thought about this?
Because our job is to serve theorganizing industry and make sure that
we are offering everything out therethat helps you with your business.
(13:42):
I feel like I'm doing a disserviceif I don't mention this, but the
ways that you have created the manycourses, they can kind of build on
each other as new things come up.
If Google completely shifts tomorrow,what that looks like, or they decide
to make you Google business profile.
A social media platform with afeed and like they're already
kind of pushing towards that.
(14:03):
I have no doubt that you will be on thecutting edge of here's the new updates.
Here's what they changed.
Here's what this looks like.
Here's how you can use,utilize it in your business.
Here's how you can optimizeit to find new clients.
And I think that those things are reallyimportant because you pay attention to
those things and you know them, you aretechie, you are very techie, and you're
always on the cutting edge of whateverthat new next thing might be, whether
(14:26):
it's a platform or a CRM, or even justa strategy and technique, like I have
seen you talk about something in thegroup, and then two weeks later, there's
a module in the course talking aboutXYZ, that maybe we had not ever heard of.
Thought about to talk aboutpreviously, you know, and so it covers
like ways to grow your business.
It covers that people aspect of what doI do when I'm actually standing there?
(14:47):
And maybe this is the first client andI don't know what I'm actually supposed
to do, but it also covers the grow ateam at a CRM, how to build my business,
how it is an over encompassing resourcewhen it comes to ways that organizers
can continue to grow and thrive.
And I think too, likeit's important to mention.
You give so, so, so much free advice,whether that is like Instagram DMs, or
(15:13):
in the Facebook group, or on the podcast,like you give so much, and if I wish
I don't have a magic ball, but if Ihad just like a set of binoculars that
I could hand to somebody and be like,just take a peek inside the paid stuff.
If you're getting all this forfree take a look at that and think
about how much value is there.
I don't gatekeep anythingin our, inside our group.
(15:37):
There's nothing that's gateexample, I love doing presentations.
I would talk to arutabaga about organizing.
Okay I don't know why I picked rutabagabecause I'm not sure I could pick one
of those out of the grocery store.
But anyway, I'm reallypassionate about that.
And so there are peoplethat are in our group.
They're like, Oh my gosh, I wasjust asked to speak at a thing.
I don't even know what to do.
I'm like, here is a whole presentationthat I have already put together for you.
(15:58):
You can use all the slides.
I was someone on their socialmedia the other day, like I said,
Oh, I'm giving a presentation.
I go, Oh, that's my slide.
Literally you just take my stuffand you can just repurpose it rather
than rebuilding it on your own.
And that's the biggest thing for me isespecially about Inspired Organizer I
feel so strongly that like you only haveto have one client that you ever get
(16:20):
from one client pays for a lifetime,literal lifetime membership in our
course, and you get things all the time.
So my goal would be that you repaythat this course repays you so many
times you can't even do that math.
Because you, whatever it isthat you are needing, someone
(16:42):
is available to give it to you.
The other day someone gave, andit's not just me giving things.
Someone was asking the other day aboutHey, I really want to focus on realtors.
I, I really want to do X, Y,Z, this presentation for them.
Someone goes, I have apresentation that I give realtors.
I'll send it to you.
Just send me your email address.
And 10 people are like,Hey, can you send it to me?
She did.
(17:03):
And I just think that's really beautiful.
Like the people in the group are sogiving of their advice, their time,
their links to organizing supplies.
You know, we're not gatekeeping, youknow, the best organizing supplies.
We're not gatekeepinganything in our group.
And that is one thing that Ijust absolutely love about it.
(17:23):
I agree.
And I, so it's been.
We haven't even talked, wehave not even scratched the
surface on the community aspect.
We've talked about this Facebook group,but when I say the Facebook group is
active and constantly people are postingnew things, whether it's, Hey, look
over my website and tell me if youthink I should fix something, or, Hey,
I have this client that has red flags.
(17:45):
How do I tell them I don'twant to work with them?
Or, Hey, my.
Sales have gone down.
I don't know what's wrong, andmaybe I'm doing consults wrong.
There's so much information in thegroup that is a complete separate
entity from the course itself.
But there is power in community, andI don't know what episode it is, but
Sarah and I did episode It's early.
(18:06):
Yeah, it's an early episode.
It's years, but part of the reason thatwe even did that episode is because we
were matched as accountability partners.
So, it's another aspect of the communitythat you can get matched with somebody
who is in the same stage of businessor same niche or you can get grouped
with somebody who will help hold youaccountable and that to us was Huge.
(18:29):
I think that's another thing that helpswith your longevity is finding people.
Who know what you're going throughthe good things and the tough things.
Yes.
And that community is seriously.
It's so, and by the way,we do fun things too.
Like on Fridays, I like to askpeople, tell me good things
that happened to you this week.
Even if it's just I had agood cup of coffee today.
Like it does not have to be the biggestclient I've ever had my entire life.
(18:51):
Right.
But then there are people who sharethis was my first 10, 000 a month.
Or I just had my first consultwith a total stranger, someone who
wasn't a friend or a family member.
You know, we just, we celebrate bigthings and we celebrate small things
because they're all freaking important.
They're all important.
I
really think like thecommunity piece of it is huge.
(19:13):
Like the modules and the actualeducation is a big thing.
And that's the piece that people want.
That's the piece.
That you're gonna sell and put a price on.
That's what they pay for, right?
Exactly.
But the added benefit of thegroup and the community that's
your thing that's priceless.
You couldn't put a numberon that because that's how
important it is.
Also, we're fun.
(19:34):
I mean we are so
much fun.
We're so much fun.
I was telling a really personalstory in the group the other
day and everybody was dying.
I don't want to share it on here,but this will not make this a family
friendly podcast, but it was justso funny because everybody was like,
Oh my gosh, totally been there.
Or they're like, Oh my God,how did you handle that?
And I'm like, right, this is what I mean.
You get.
(19:55):
The struggles behind running abusiness, being an organizer, the
things you see with clients intheir home, like y'all get it.
And so it's good to have those peoplethat you can come back to and bounce
ideas off of, or ask, you know, helpfor, or just have a community with.
We also do a live zoom once a month.
So if you have something that youneed live in person, like face to
(20:15):
face coaching on, we do that too.
And sometimes you get somegreat stories from that.
I will send people, if you email meand you want to see an example of
one, I will be happy to send you one.
But we had one I can't remember if thisis for organizing essentials or IO now
that I come to think of it, but we doa zoom once a month for both courses.
And there was a woman who talkedabout, she had a police officer
(20:36):
that was supervising her organizingclient because they were getting
divorced and they needed supervision.
And I'm like whoa.
We're gonna have to tellplease, let's back up.
Rewind.
You are glossing over a lot.
Let's tell that story.
Right.
So we were able to talk about it,by the way, had a happy ending.
Everything was fine.
But there is nothing when I saythere is nothing that you can
bring to that group that we willnot talk about and talk through.
(20:58):
Anything, bring it up and we willbe there for you and we might,
like you said, we might care aboutthe outcome more than you do.
Oh, multiple times, you know, in somemonths where I like see a post and
then a couple of days later I'm like,I don't even know what happened there.
And I have to go back and find it and belike, hello, can you please update us?
Can we please have an update?
I need a story update.
(21:20):
I'm very curious.
I need to know all the things.
Yes.
I love knowing all the things.
Side note, I really want to start,this would not be proper, but I really
want to start a podcast that is allanonymous of like people's client stories.
You couldn't do it
anonymously because we know your
voice.
Yeah.
I'd have to, I'd have to do somethingdifferent, but I want people to
(21:42):
come on and tell their craziestclient stories because there are
some good ones out there, man.
There is.
There is.
This is a never a dull momentkind of work in a great way.
We
gotta add it to our list of futurethings that we, you know, continually
have to do.
That I don't have time for.
I know.
We always have these conversationsof Oh, we should do this.
Just kidding.
None of us have time for that.
(22:02):
You know, only if we didn't need to sleep.
So, this is.
It's, you know, and wewant to come on here.
This is not a sales pitch byany stretch of the imagination.
This is just a, we want people, you know,we've done a lot of work of, relaunching
rebranding re, you know, this is kindof a renaissance of Pro Organizer Studio
as we move into the next few years.
(22:24):
And we just want to tell peoplewe have resources out there.
So if there's something thatyou are struggling with.
Come to us.
Ask some questions because we have thingsthat will help you and we want you to
succeed and we want you to have thatROI because we are financially savvy.
We care about your finances.
We want you to have successful businesses.
(22:45):
I want people to pay themselves.
I want people to have the goalsof, whatever their financial
goals are or their personalgoals are for their business.
I want you to go succeed in thoseand I want to help you get there.
So.
so much.
I don't think you couldwrap that up any better.
Well, thanks.
See, she's a good hype woman, you guys.
You need her on your side.
(23:06):
I am super glad that you mentioned nota sales pitch, but also you, I'm not
lying, you give so much informationfor free I would be doing you and
other organizers a disservice if Idid not be like, Hey, you need this.
It has so much value in it.
Thank you.
I don't know how to argue.
We do.
I mean, I teach peoplehow to sell things, right?
(23:27):
Like I want you to sell yourorganizing business, not sell.
I want you to get clientsis what I'm trying to say.
I also would not be doing my jobif I didn't say, I also have things
that I sell that can help you.
Yes.
Just like organizing services help people.
And trust me, I'm a lot lessexpensive than organizing services.
A lot.
(23:48):
True.
I charge a lot less money for myservices than you do for yours.
So.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So the wrap up is Pro OrganizerStudio has lots of things to
offer, lots of changes coming.
Cabri and I are going to be out theretalking about it on social media.
(24:09):
We are going to be talking about itall over the place and we are open.
For questions, comments unsolicitedadvice, feedback phone calls, DMs,
emails, whatever it looks like, we arehere because we want you to succeed.
No phone calls, but all the otherthings are open and available.
(24:29):
And honestly, too, this is anotherthing of sometimes we have those
people who have zero interest in.
Purchasing a course or maybe they'renot going to become an organizer.
They just really love organizing.
They will ask some of the likemost off the wall questions that
us as organizers were like, well,man, we haven't thought about that.
Like we need to createa resource for that.
Or we need to, you know, talkabout this a little bit more.
(24:51):
And so even feedback kind offrom the outside world, whether
you're on the fence, whetheryou're already an organizer, like.
The feedback, the questions you ask,like those give us more insight into
the life of an organizer and ways thatmight need to be connected to some help
or some resource or some missing gap.
And so I love the feedback.
I love going back andlooking through comments.
(25:13):
I love when some of thosepeople that come on strong and
you're like, I like the passion.
Let's talk about it.
Let's do it.
Absolutely.
Well, and our job is to serve you.
And so there are, and we can't possiblyknow every situation that's out there.
So if you have something that youare going through, please bring it
to us and just say, Hey, I've neverheard you guys talk about blah.
(25:33):
I had someone the other day, pitch mesomething on a podcast, as a podcast idea.
And she goes, I just neverhear you talk about this thing.
And I go, cool.
How about you come on and talk about it?
She's Oh, no, I didn't mean me.
And I'm like, well, too late.
It's you.
Be careful.
You start offering up advice.
We're also going to make yoube the one to give it to us.
Right.
But
(25:53):
I appreciated that because she was justsaying I always hear you talk about this,
but I never hear you talk about this.
And I go, you're absolutely right.
So let's talk about it.
So we are we are really opento hearing what the people that
listen to us want to talk about.
And I really mean this fromthe bottom of my heart.
I am not just saying this.
I appreciate people who listen tomy voice because sometimes I go,
(26:17):
why does anyone listen to my voice?
But I appreciate people that tune inevery single week and that really just
want to be better in their business.
And so any way that we canhelp you, we want to be there.
It's a great ending.
Now, can I say the end?
Now you can say the end.
You said you were going to say the end.
So
(26:38):
no, I don't think I want to.
You summed it up so well a second ago thatI was like, there's no need for me here.
Okay.
Well, we look forwardto seeing more of Cabri.
If you want to connect with her,she is Minimize Then Organize.
She is quite, she and her team.
Not just her, because you havehilarious people on your team too.
They are just lovely on socialmedia and I am just excited to
(27:02):
see what you have going on in yourorganizing business this year too.
And I'm happy to have a, happy tohave a like ringside seat for it.
Oh,
same in reverse.
I can be on the ringsideseat of this, all of this.
I have had so much fun on the week ofCabri and I hope that you did as well.
I am very fortunate to get Cabri everyday in our Inspired Organizer group.
(27:25):
And you can too, we would loveto coach you in your business.
Whether you have been a businessfor 15 minutes or 15 years, we
have wonderful things for you.
Please contact me athello@proorganizerstudio.com.
If you would like to have a zoomwith me about what kind of things
we can do to help your business.
(27:45):
You can join us for a brandnew workshop also called How
Professional Organizers Can GetClients WIthout Using Social Media.
That is at poroadmap.com..
All right.
Thank you as always for listeningto the Pro Organizer Studio Podcast.
And I hope that you have anabsolutely spectacular day.
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