December 8, 2024 • 39 mins
Pinterest has a wealth of information for us--but did you know it's also A SEARCH ENGINE? My guest today is an SEO expert for pro organizers and she is here to tell us all the goodness about how professional organizers can use Pinterest to increase their own SEO performance.
LINKS FOR LISTENERS:
Julia Renee Consulting: Pinterest & SEO: https://juliareneeconsulting.com
Connect with Melissa for your free Pinterest helper: hello@proorganizerstudio.com
EPISODE INFO:
Boost Your Organizing Business with Pinterest: Expert Tips from Julia Renee Consulting
In this episode, Melissa returns to bring valuable insights on using Pinterest as a marketing tool for organizing businesses.
Joined by Julia from Julia Renee Consulting, they delve into the benefits of Pinterest for driving traffic, SEO strategies, and actionable tips for professional organizers. Julia explains how Pinterest works as a visual search engine, offers advice on creating effective pins, and emphasizes the importance of seasonal content.
They also discuss the value of maintaining a business account, repurposing old blog posts, and tools like Canva and Tailwind to streamline pin creation and scheduling. Whether you’re a Pinterest newbie or looking to optimize your current strategy, this episode is packed with practical advice to help you attract local clients and enhance your online presence.
00:00 Welcome Back to the Podcast!
01:30 Diving into Pinterest for Your Business
02:42 Introducing Julia Renee: Pinterest and SEO Expert
03:14 Understanding Pinterest as a Visual Search Engine
04:51 Creating Effective Pins for Your Organizing Business
11:34 Setting Up and Optimizing Your Pinterest Profile
18:36 Repurposing Old Content on Pinterest
18:48 The Longevity of Pinterest Traffic
19:40 Creating Effective Video Content for Pinterest
24:49 Using Pinterest for Seasonal Content
27:25 Pinterest for Local SEO
29:24 Blogging for SEO and Pinterest
34:31 Pinterest Management Services
36:59 Conclusion and Contact Information
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey pro organizers.
It's Melissa, did you think I wasnever going to record a podcast again?
I know it's been a hotminute, but here I am.
I am back.
Never fear.
I've never gone long.
I actually had someone that I did azoom with someone who was interested
in, um, talking about some of ourcoaching services and she's like,
Do you have like a regular schedulefor the podcast and I'm like, no.
(00:22):
And I've said this before, but if thereis a week that there is not a podcast, up.
I just want you to know thatit's not because I'm sitting on
the couch, not doing anything.
That means that I have some sortof complete insanity going on.
And I just am not able to get anepisode that I love out and I want to
make sure that the episodes are reallygood and that they really hit you.
(00:43):
So thank you for your patience.
And one of the things that Irecommend too is going back.
If there, if you are.
Missing me, which.
That's so sweet.
If you do miss me, I really appreciate it.
Um, and it definitely let my familyknow that you actually miss talking to
me and hearing from me because I thinkthey would like to hear from me less.
But anyway, If you want to go backinto our catalog, we have 200.
(01:07):
What are we on 211 podcasts?
I don't even know.
There is tons of stuff in the back catalogthat is, uh, dare I say, really helpful.
And it might be that a relistenkind of helps jog your memory.
I do that for some of the businesspodcasts that I listened to.
So highly recommend it.
If you're ever like, Hey, where'sMelissa, what is she doing this week?
Why isn't she podcasting?
(01:28):
Lots of back episodes that you can go to.
So this week I am bringing you anepisode that is about something that
you might not have thought of as beinghelpful in your organizing business for
marketing yourself and for getting eventhose local in home organizing clients.
And that is Pinterest.
I personally love Pinterest for homeimprovement projects and recipes,
(01:51):
even though I don't like to cook.
Um, it's one of the mysteries about me.
I do like looking at recipes, butI don't like actually making them.
Someday I will become the domesticgoddess that I know I'm ready to be.
Anyway, I love using Pinterest, butJulia is going to talk to us about how
to use Pinterest for your business.
And we're going to makeit really easy for you.
I am also going to give you a littlebonus, which is that if you email me.
(02:18):
hello@proorganizerstudio.comand say, give me.
my stuff!.
I will send you a couple things that Ihave created after talking to Julia, that
will help you get started on Pinterest.
So hit me up with that.
And without further ado here isJulia of Julia Renee consulting,
talking to us about Pinterest.
(02:40):
have.
a great day organizers.
We are back with a frequent guest.
Is this like your, I think it'slike your third time on the podcast.
I don't know.
You've been on several times.
It might be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So,
yeah.
So Julia, so happy to have you back.
Yeah.
Thanks for
having me again.
So you are an expert in one ofmy favorite things, which is SEO.
(03:00):
I talk about it all the time.
It's really important.
And I just, I want people tobe paying attention to it.
But today we're talking about kindof SEO for something really specific.
So do you want to tell us aboutone of your other passions?
Yeah.
So the other one is Pinterest.
And Pinterest is actually a search engine.
It's a visual search engine.
So that's why I focus on SEOand Pinterest specifically.
(03:24):
Yeah.
Can you tell us what avisual search engine is?
I don't think I've everheard that described before.
Yeah.
So just like a search engine, you goto Google, you type in, a question or,
you're looking for inspiration, something.
And then Google will show you someresults with different websites.
Pinterest is the very similarconcept where you go, type something
(03:44):
into Pinterest and then insteadof just like links or, Locations
on a map or something like that.
Pinterest is going to showyou images and videos.
So if you ever go to Pinterest, all youare going to see are images and videos.
You're not just going to seelike links to websites with, the
titles or something like that.
Right.
So, Pinterest has been around, I, Iwas like one of the early adopters to
(04:05):
Pinterest, like, way, way, way backin the day, you had to like, know
someone who had a link and let youin, the whole thing, and I remember
at the time, I was just like, oh mygosh, this is so fun, and it was like,
there was so much cool stuff on it, andnow it's just, it's totally exploded.
Yeah, last
few years, especially likeso many people are using it.
And I know I tend to go to it personally.
(04:28):
I don't know if this is maybe likedemographically like my age range.
I go to Pinterest way before Iwould consider going to YouTube.
Yeah, I'm the same way.
Like my teenagers will go to YouTubeinstantly like for everything.
So talk to me a little bit about,I think Pinterest feels a little
bit more like, oh, either it's forbig creators or it's for people
(04:48):
that are doing recipes or whatever.
So can you talk a little bit aboutPinterest and how organizers are using
it, can use it, how we should be usingit a little bit more effectively.
Yeah.
So Pinterest, like you said,has really kind of taken off
in the last couple of years.
I think it's, it's definitelya combination of things.
They added videos or at leaststarted focusing more on videos
(05:09):
in the last couple of years.
So people have jumped on that wagon.
They kind of adapted Instagram reelsinto what they called idea pins.
And then that has been througha lot of different iterations.
So now it's just kind of video pins.
And then they've also started ship.
focusing more on e commerce andproduct sellers on Pinterest.
So if you do sell products youcan become a verified merchant.
(05:32):
Super easy if you're like using Shopify.
But even if you're just, creating blogposts or, also videos Pinterest is
still a really great platform for that.
I'll say most of the time it's,those standard photo pins that
are still driving the bulk oftraffic for a lot of businesses.
So for, organizersspecifically definitely.
As an SEO person, I'm alwaysrecommending writing blog posts anyway.
(05:55):
But using those blog posts on Pinteresteven if I know a lot of people are
like, oh, well, I don't have likebeautiful photos or anything like that.
People seem to care less abouthaving like very curated photos.
It's just kind of like Instagram wherelike back in the day you had these very
professional photos and now, peopleare just posting cell phone selfies.
But even if I don't know that isn't.
A concern of yours, you can definitelyjust use like pin graphics and do
(06:18):
like, text overlay on top of imagesor even just get kind of like
standard what do they call stockimages and do a text overlay on that.
So it doesn't necessarily haveto be your image on the idea pin.
And then, Within your blog post, youcan, show off the work that you're
doing, even if it's not, your, yourperfect curated photos and yeah, just
leave people back to your blog post.
(06:39):
And then from there, once they're on yourblog post, leave them to, signing for
your email list or checking out products,if that's something that you have, or
your services, or, kind of using yourblog posts to lead them where you want
them to go once they get to your site
So you said something about, soI think we all know, all of us
know how to post on Instagram.
All of us know how to post on Facebook.
Also let's just go backjust really quickly.
(07:01):
Julia and I would both likeyou to write blog posts.
Yes.
Please write some blog posts.
Please see our prior podcasts.
And if you are an inspired organizer, Ihave extra stuff from Julia in the course.
So if you're an inspired organizerlistener, please go into the course.
You have lots of SEOtips from yeah, right.
Those blog posts.
But I think that we know how toput those things on Instagram
(07:23):
and Facebook, Pinterest.
I will say to me feels like, oh my gosh,I don't know how to post on Pinterest.
So is it hard?
Is it easy?
Tell us a little bit about that.
It's not hard.
It is, it can be a littledifferent than other platforms.
You do need to have an image.
So, it's not like Facebook write.
An update about your lifeand then post it without any,
(07:44):
photos or videos or something.
You do need to have a photo ora video to add to Pinterest.
And then when you go to upload, so, you'lljust go to Pinterest, click on, they have
like a little plus sign to add your pin.
You'll upload your photo, your video.
And then it has a title boxand then a description box.
So this is where it's like verysimilar to, Google and SEO and a
(08:04):
little different from like Instagram.
The title is very similarto like the title tag.
So, kind of like the title ofthe blog post or a variation
of the title of the blog post.
And then the description is kind oflike a summary of what, people will
find when they, click on the photoor video to go to the blog post.
So it's, You're not just like kindof writing a little update about
your life or something like that.
(08:24):
You are writing about your blog postor your, whatever content that you
have, and incorporating keywordswithin the, the title and in the
description, to help it, that pinrank on Pinterest and help Pinterest
understand what that pin is about.
Right.
So Pinterest and YouTube maybe are alittle bit more linked like if people
are doing YouTube content like that's thesame thing the title and the description.
(08:47):
Yeah, a lot
of rich content you can put in thereof SEO, professional organizer.
decluttering, organizing yourlocation, your geographic
location, all those things.
Those are great things.
Does Pinterest have a limiton the number of characters?
It does.
I don't remember off the top ofmy head, but I honestly don't
know I've ever reached the limit.
(09:07):
It's pretty long.
It's not like a, it's notlike a meta description.
That's only 160 characters.
Like it's a couple hundred characters.
And you don't need to like go crazyand fill out every single one, just
writing like a couple sentences.
About, whatever is in the blogpost or whatever is in the video.
Another thing is you don'thave to use hashtags.
Hashtags is something Pinterest triedout like three years ago or something.
(09:30):
Didn't really work.
People didn't really know how to use them.
And then Pinterest was like, yeah,we don't worry about this anymore.
Yeah, so just don't use hashtags.
They don't matter.
They don't, they don't hurt you if youdo have an old pin that has hashtags.
You don't have to go through anddelete them, but like it doesn't help.
So just don't do them.
I have seen a lot of peopleusing chat GPT to write their
pin titles and descriptions.
(09:50):
And since chat GPT is usinginformation from like, I think
2021 is or 2022 or something.
Yeah.
So it is actually using hashtags and alot of pin descriptions that I've seen.
So if you do want to use like chat GPTto get, at least get you started on
writing pin titles and descriptions.
Just tell them not to use emojis orhashtags cause you don't need those.
(10:11):
Okay.
That's good to know.
That's I know that we were going totake like a quick detour, but FYI,
if you are using chat GPT, which bythe way you should, because it is,
it offers a lot of great help, but.
It is a start, not a completesolution and you've just said
something really important.
So chat GPT, the, the, the most recentinformation it has in its learning
(10:32):
is the last time I checked 2022.
So it has basically twoyears of information.
That has not been fully, like,whatever they do with it, sucked
into their great big AI machine.
So just know, I mean,that's a really great point.
I had never really thought about that.
It's going to give you somethingthat might have worked two years
ago and isn't going to work now.
(10:52):
And I mean, even though it's pullinginformation up until 2022, it's still
reading, blog posts that were publishedin like 2019 that may have been like
recommending hashtags or something.
So yeah, you can't, you can'tentirely trust ChatGPT yet.
It's a start.
It's not the
whole
thing,
So what do you recommend for people?
So like for a professional organizer,let's say you've never been on
(11:13):
Pinterest before, like you reallydon't know anything about Pinterest.
Do you suggest like getting in thereand just kind of looking around seeing
what kinds of things that you react to?
Like I know.
I will react to a pin that, visuallyhad something like a little bit
more interesting or descriptionwise or whatever, like, do you
recommend kind of getting a layof the land and looking around a
little bit or just diving right in?
(11:34):
I think it depends on how comfortableyou are with your brand and creating
pins and things like that If youhave absolutely no idea where to get
started It is probably helpful tokind of search around on pinterest.
I would actually search maybe some similarblog post topics that you have or just
general organizing topics Kind of seewhat people are doing, but then you don't
want to copy them because you want Yeah,you want to make sure that your content
(11:57):
is standing out So get an idea of whatpeople are doing, but don't copy them make
sure everything that you're using on yourpin designs is in line with your brand.
So if you, have like more cooler tonesbecause you want people to feel like
relaxed when they come to your websitebecause they're already stressed about all
the clutter that they have in their house.
Don't use like bright red on yourpin designs because that's not going
(12:18):
to match what people are going tosee when they go to your website.
So making sure that you areusing your branding, your brand
colors, fonts, all of that.
Or at least something very similar,because if you have maybe a lot of like
script fonts with your website, whichI don't recommend having a lot of,
because
that can be harder to read.
But that really is harder to readon pins, especially when you want
(12:39):
to have something that stands out.
So at least make sure you're using fontsthat kind of align with your brand if
you're not using your, exact brand fonts.
Yeah, that's just a greatsuggestion in general.
And I feel like the last time we talked,we talked a little bit about script fonts.
Maybe I'm just making that up,but it might've been someone
else entirely anyway, whatever.
It doesn't matter.
Script fonts.
I'm a big fan of script fonts.
(13:00):
I like them.
I think they're fun designs.
They are very hard for people to read.
And,
Especially the age range of peoplethat we're generally targeting.
A lot of times those are ones, andespecially on Pinterest, if you think
about if you've ever searched Pinterest,you have to make those pins really
super easy to read so that peoplewho are just looking at that one
(13:21):
little kind of thumbnail essentiallycan read what you have on there.
It's important.
Yeah.
Especially because I think it's like 70percent of people on Pinterest are using
like the Pinterest app on their phones.
So it's even smaller.
So like whatever you're designing on yourdesktop, you have to make sure also stands
out and super easy to read on your phone.
Yeah, Canva, I am positive has aPinterest setting like if you do it.
(13:45):
Yeah, so you can go to Canva,which I'm going to say this for
the millionth time if you do notgrow, please go run and get it.
It's the best 13 I spend a month.
Frequently wonder why theydon't charge me more money.
But you can just go and click a newthing and just they give you a ton
of different things and you just typein Pinterest and it will give you.
(14:07):
The exact size that you need tobe sized properly for Pinterest.
And then you can go into their templatesor themes and just put like, I don't
know, kitchen organizing, whatever, orkitchen and just get a beautiful graphic.
And then, like you said,just put some text over it.
It's, it's really, really easy to do.
Yeah, Canva makes it really easy.
And yeah, like you said, they alreadyhave templates that you can just like
(14:29):
swap out your colors and fonts for.
Yeah.
So if people are diving into Pinterest,do you recommend that they set up
kind of a business page and have someSome things that they follow, like, so
on Pinterest, you can follow people.
And so if someone wants to followyou, like if they find one of your
pins and then want to follow you,if someone's really into Pinterest,
(14:51):
like they're going to want tosee like a page that's built out.
Right.
Is that fair?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So followers are helpful becausewhen someone follows you or.
Even if they like interact with a lot ofyour pins, Pinterest is more likely to
show your content like in their home feed.
So just when they open Pinterest,they're not searching anything.
They're just scrolling, which people do.
(15:13):
I do that.
Yeah, I do too.
Yeah, so, it is helpful to have followers.
It is not, I'll say it's notnecessary to, like, have a ton of
followers in order to see a lot oftraction and traffic from Pinterest.
So it's not like Instagram where, like,you need to get 10, 000 followers in order
to, like, have your posting by 100 people.
So it is helpful in that sense.
But yeah, when people go to yourprofile, you don't want to have, like,
(15:33):
boards that are, all over the place, orI see this a lot where someone, like,
it has a board that has one pin on itor a board that hasn't been updated
in five years, something like that.
So making sure that your boards atleast have a couple of pins on them.
Look a little bit built out.
And for anyone who's like, brand, brandnew to Pinterest boards are basically
just like, categories of your content.
(15:55):
So you can have different boardsfor, kitchen organizing, kitchen
cabinet organizing, pantry,like you can get very specific.
And it's actually helpful to get alittle bit specific because the more
keywords that you're targeting withinyour board titles and board descriptions.
Again, the more information you're givingPinterest to know, because people do
search by boards and then also whateverpins you have pinned to that board kind
(16:17):
of reinforces to Pinterest like, oh,this is about pinch, kitchen cabinet
organization, or this is about, productsfor organization, something like that.
So don't just have like kitchen, like,get, Specific with like, pantry shelf
organization, something like that.
But then also don't get sospecific that you only have that
one pin that is relevant to it.
(16:38):
Because again, you do wantto make sure you have a few
pins for all of your boards.
Pantry paperclip organization.
Yes.
A little too specific.
Yeah.
The, so you said, I wrote down, Iactually wrote down while you were
talking, I'm like, so pro organizer studiohas a pretty robust Pinterest that I
don't do like remotely enough with us.
That is a definite it's adefinite weak spot for me.
(16:59):
So I was personally excited to talkto you today, but I just wrote down,
I was like, Oh, update my boards.
Cause I know my boards are.
For sure.
At least four or five years old.
And I'm sure that theyhave a bunch of old stuff.
Like I, I could totallyread from that now.
It'd be a very enjoyableway to spend an evening.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
And then also if you like maybe startedwith a personal account or currently
(17:20):
have a personal account that you're,transitioning to a business account
or something, and you have like abunch of boards that you don't want
to delete, but just aren't relevantyou can make them private boards or
you can just archive them if you're,you kind of want to like Refer back
to them if you want to, but you're notcurrently like pinning new content to it.
So that way you don't like, loseanything that you've pinned because
yeah, I, I made my account a businessaccount after having a personal account.
(17:43):
So I had a bunch of recipes.
I'm like, I don't want to have to create anew account and like re pin all of these.
So I just make those private.
I love that.
So if someone is just starting out,let's say has never done a pin before,
do you recommend going back intokind of your content that you've
put up and just reposting it all?
Like if I have old blog posts, like aslong as they're still relevant, like post
(18:04):
it on Pinterest, it's a brand new sourcefor people to find your stuff, right?
Oh, yeah, definitely.
And that's why one of the reasons whyI love Pinterest is because if you have
built up a bunch of content over theyears you're probably not like re sharing
it on Facebook or, Instagram regularlybut you can re share it on Pinstagram.
Pinstagram, wow.
That would actually bea great combination.
Yeah, that would be.
(18:25):
You just came up withsomething new and I'm Yeah.
Yeah, I'll just see if I can, Ican get some funding for that.
Yeah.
You should go grab thatURL while you're at it.
Yeah, so if you are, you have aton of old content, you can like
definitely repurpose that on Pinterest.
Definitely check to make sure it'sstill like relevant and you're
not pinning to, a bunch of productlinks that, lead to four or four
(18:46):
error pages or something like that.
But yeah, and then Pinterest is greatbecause it can bring a lot of sustainable
traffic to your website, so somethingthat you pin today can like, give you
traffic for months to even years to come,rather than like Facebook and Instagram,
you have a post and then it disappearsafter like, Yeah, yeah, so this is,
really great for kind of building upthat sustainable, evergreen traffic.
(19:10):
I've seen pins.
I had a client who had a pinfrom like 2009 that was still
bringing traffic to her site.
Yeah.
That's like a thousand years ago.
I know,
but it was like still relevant.
People were still, continually to save it.
So then it was still being shownto new people on Pinterest.
Yeah.
Oh, that's super cool.
(19:32):
So I can't promise something that youpin today is still going to be there
in 10 years, but it is definitelylonger than, Facebook and Instagram.
That's crazy.
Okay.
So on that front though, so since,like YouTube has their shorts that
they're being, so you were talkinga little bit earlier about Pinterest
kind of getting into, video content,what would you define as like, reels
(19:52):
are obviously like a minute long.
What is video content thatis good for Pinterest?
If someone has video content.
Yeah, it's something you kind of needto play around with because I see very
different things for different accounts.
I will say typically under a minute,people also don't listen with volume
on and then Pinterest automaticallyhas them like muted anyway when
(20:14):
you're kind of like scrolling through.
So create something that is, alittle bit more like eye catching
that will, you know, yeah.
Maybe doesn't need to havevolume to, show whatever you're
showing or whatever you're doing.
Yeah, I had an account.
She was like creating a lot of videosfor Instagram of just like her talking
and those didn't perform super wellbecause People don't know who she is.
(20:35):
They don't recognize her face because,it's not like on Instagram where, you
know, all of your followers, well,not even all of your followers, but
mostly your followers are seeing yourcontent, they recognize you, they, have a
connection with you, whereas on Pinterest,this is kind of like a cold audience so
they're not gonna, really know who youare unless they've been, following you
and engaging with your content already.
So, Just keep that in mindthat it's a cold audience.
(20:56):
They likely can't hear what's goingon in your video So you you do want
to kind of like have it more visual?
And less dependent on sound I also dida Pinterest audit for an account who
was using a lot of like the trendingsounds from Instagram on their profile
Like instagram reels and that was reallyhelping their reels perform, but it
did absolutely nothing on pinterest forthem so yeah, just keep it more visual
(21:19):
before and afters you can also do like,slideshows of Photos that you've done or
something like that So it doesn't haveto be like you have to create a brand new
video all the time You can repurpose yourinstagram reels do slideshows of photos
showing before and afters of productsor projects so you kind of experiment to
see what works well for you, but thosewould kind of be my, my recommendations.
(21:42):
So I mean, I mean, I think that, thatI am very much a proponent of you
don't have to use social media tohave a successful organizing business.
And there are so many, thealgorithms of Instagram and
Facebook change so constantly.
And it's not to say that they don't onPinterest, but is Pinterest a little
bit more of the like, It probablyhas more of a long tail of like, if
(22:03):
you put something up there, it hasmuch greater chance of getting a
reach versus Instagram and Facebook.
You have such a short window oftime that it might be relevant.
Is that fair?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, whatever you put onPinterest today, it's not going to
like rank on Pinterest tomorrow.
It is something that is kind of likemore, long term and builds up over time.
(22:23):
But yeah, whatever, you're It's,should bring you traffic in the
future and it's not something whereFacebook and Instagram, it's more like,
something that's more timely and thenalso, stops being seen so quickly.
Yeah,
I know.
So I'm a big fan of the posting theposting software called one up app.
There are a bunch of differentposting planally does it as well.
(22:46):
Do you recommend some of those thingsfor posting to Pinterest as well?
Kind of the auto post?
Or do you recommend kind of goinginto Pinterest and doing it?
I know there's Tailwind also, like,do you have any favorite pieces
of software that you recommend?
Yeah, so Tailwind is probablythe one I use the most.
Tailwind was like kind of the firstPIMS scheduler and it was like
(23:06):
created specifically for Pinterest.
So that's kind of like what alot of people use for Pinterest
just because it's, It was thefirst one that was around.
Planoly I've used.
Later I've used, I don't loveit for Pinterest specifically.
Pinterest does have theirown native scheduler.
So you can, I think you can schedule up tolike 30 days on the Pinterest scheduler.
(23:28):
So it's free.
If you're looking forjust, an easy free option.
But yeah, the great thing about, Imean, any of these schedulers and with
Pinterest is you can schedule out likea month or two at a time and then you
don't have to go back to Pinterest.
Until it's time.
Yeah, you don't have to think about it.
You don't have to like show up and,dance around and, do all these new
videos every day or something like that.
(23:49):
Like, you can just scheduleeverything out and then, not have
to think about it for another month.
Yeah.
Well, I love that.
I mean, I would just thinkthat this is the kind of thing.
And I mean, I'm going to personallyspend some time on it too, because
I'm actually first of all, I thinkevery once in a while, you just need
something new to concentrate on.
I don't know.
Just like I'm used todoing all the old stuff.
It's a happy place.
It's fun.
I really like it.
(24:10):
And like every time, like when Ihave, I like doing home improvement
projects and I hate cooking, butI would like to, I would like to.
That makes sense.
And I think especially because it'sat least at the time we're recording
this, it's the holidays and I tendto use Pinterest more on the holidays
because I'm like, I'll get an ideaof like, Oh, I'm gonna make cinnamon
rolls from scratch, whatever.
Like Pinterest, like you said, it's fun.
(24:32):
Like it's, it's not a platform.
I think like you can experiment with it.
What's the worst thingthat will happen, right?
Like just experiment with it, playaround, figure out how to post.
And then you might have one of thosethings that, sticks around for 10 years
or whatever, which is crazy and cool.
Yeah.
And kind of just made me think of ittalking about like with seasonal content.
(24:53):
But yeah, it's, it's.
Pinterest is really greatfor seasonal content.
People start searching for Christmas stuffin like August, I think on Pinterest.
So you do need, if you do have seasonalthings, which I'm sure like January and
also like spring cleaning are huge topicswhere we're gonna Make sure you get
that content up on Pinterest at least,like, two months before, the searches
(25:14):
are really going to start happening sothat way it gives it time for Pinterest
to start ranking that pin, and, whenpeople are ready to search for it, then
your pin is already, ranking higher thanif you just, like, post something for,
this is Thanksgiving week that we'rerecording this, so if you're posting on,
I don't know, organizing your Thanksgivingspices or something like that today
it's not going to have enough time tobe ranking before people are searching
(25:36):
for it, the day before Thanksgiving.
It'll rank for next year,but not for this year.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, that's a really good point aboutlike, doing it early because it's sort
of like, I remember one time, this is athousand years ago at one of my old jobs.
Somehow I found out thatlike, Hershey's starts making
Christmas candy in like February.
And for some reason thatlike weirded me out.
(25:56):
I don't know why.
But, but yeah, you have to think aboutit in advance because if you're thinking
about it around the same time, it'salready too late for these things.
As I tell people a lot, the tentaclesof the internet take some time,
like
not a magical instantaneous thing, whichis very frustrating to a lot of people.
You have to let the machine do itswork, and you have to give it that time.
(26:18):
So yeah, having a schedule in advance,which is You know, can be challenging,
but, but there's tons of seasonal content.
So you've got holidays tons ofgreat organizing content about the
holidays and especially also Halloweenis a huge decorating holiday now.
So in terms of organizing, so youcan start thinking about Halloween,
you can think about a schedule oflike back to school, Halloween,
(26:40):
Thanksgiving, Christmas, new year'sresolutions, spring cleaning.
Like you can get a really nice scheduleof organizing content, build up and
ready to go a couple months in advance.
And Pinterest has a toolcalled Pinterest trends.
It's just trends.
pinterest.
com.
And it's kind of like theirkeyword research tool.
I will say they don't havelike the most information yet.
(27:02):
It's still fairly new.
So like the more specific topicsyou may be searching on there and
they might not have information.
But if you do want to like,just search, like, holiday decor
organizing or something like that.
You can see when the, whenthe searches start to pick
up or when they quote, trend.
So that way you know, like when twomonths before then is when you need to
start having that content on Pinterest.
(27:24):
Okay.
Can you talk a little bitabout so obviously Pinterest
is a worldwide search engine.
And so when we think about, organizerswho want to do, let's say your primary
tool is in home organizing in yourlocal community, can you talk about
why this is still, even as a globaltool, like why it is good for SEO
(27:44):
for local in, in home services?
Yeah, so specifically for SEO, the morequality traffic you get back to your site,
the more it's going to help your rankings.
Because, this is something that Googlecan see, how many people are getting
to your site, how long they're stayingon your site, how many, different
pages or posts that they're going to.
So, So that is going to helpyour rankings over time.
(28:05):
And then if you are trying to like reallyreach that, local audience, it's harder
to do that on Pinterest specifically.
Like people aren't going to Pinterest tosearch for like, Philadelphia organizer.
But you can use your blogposts to kind of, help lead
those more local people to you.
So if you, live in Florida, don't writeabout like, how to organize your like,
(28:26):
winter snowplow or your winter boots orsomething like that, like, talk about
how to organize your beach towels.
Something that's like a lot more specificto your region to help, get those
local searches back to your website.
And you're not going to, bereaching as many people who live,
in like Canada or something.
(28:46):
for listening.
SEO, basically anything that helps yourSEO is going to help random strangers on
the internet find you in your local area.
And it's, SEO has somany different factors.
And I think that we've gotten a littlebit, like what I'm seeing now is I think
a lot of organizers are like, well, I've,I've done, I've done kind of the basics,
(29:08):
but you need to keep doing more stuff.
Like, unfortunately, there's, there's morecompetition and there's more complexity.
And so anything you can do to increaseyour SEO is going to help all of
these things work together to helpyou rise to the top of those rankings.
Yeah, and even just going back to theimportance of blogging, like, the more
often that you're putting content on yourwebsite, the more often Google's going
(29:31):
to come back to your website and crawlit, so the more often Google's going
to be seeing your website and, the morekeywords that you have, the opportunities
to rank for, so, there are lots of, lotsof SEO benefits for blogging and then
also getting that Pinterest traffic.
Yeah.
Okay.
So just really quickly.
So we, we have, let's say you write ablog post, please write a blog, please.
(29:54):
Okay.
Let's say you write a blog post andyou're going to also put it on Pinterest.
If you had, if you could justwave your magic wand and everybody
loved blogging and nobody gotannoyed when you said, please blog.
And no one said, Idon't know how to write.
No one gave you all these excuses.
How many times a month would you suggest?
Blogging for a professionalorganizer in a perfect world.
(30:17):
Yeah honestly, I would say evenin a perfect world, like twice
a month, like I don't need togo crazy and write every day.
Definitely focusing onquality over quantity.
And like writing, at least likeat least 800 words per blog post.
And yeah, I think twice a month ispretty good and I think manageable for
most people, even just once a month.
(30:38):
If you are able to do morethan that, that's great.
But I know if I tell you to do oncea week, then you're going to, either
never ever do it or do it for a monthand then never touch it ever again.
Here's
what, here's the advice Ihave been giving people.
And by the way, I followmy own advice on this.
Not as frequently as I should.
I have said, okay, let's say,let's say it's once a month.
You said you want to just meet the bareminimum that Julia and I are both asking
(31:02):
you to do, which is one time a month.
Go somewhere for a day, like coffee shop.
If you can take yourself out of townand get a hotel room, even better.
Or in town and get a hotel room.
I don't care, but just do it.
To spend one day writingall those blog posts,
you
can do it.
You really, really can.
(31:22):
And just get them all set up and all done.
And then you don't haveto think about it again.
Or even if you did half of a year,even if you did six months at a time,
let's say you did two a month, sixat a time, six months at a time,
just do it all in one fell swoop.
If you can make them reallygood quality and then you don't
have to worry about it again.
Yeah, yeah, and definitely getting outof the house like to a coffee shop or
(31:45):
something is really helpful for likewriting because yeah, just getting
out of your environment is helpful.
I always had to do that whenI was studying in grad school.
I'm like, there's somethingI really need to focus on.
I need to like leave the house.
I have to have I don't knowif this is just like I think
it's probably person by person.
I have to have a change of scenery ifI'm like really going deep on something.
Yeah.
(32:05):
Like, sometimes I evenjust move around my house.
Sometimes that's enough to do.
Like physically, I have to getin the car and go someplace.
Here's my new hot tipthat no one asked for.
Public libraries.
I
was just thinking about libraries.
Yeah, they're great.
The libraries around me and I, Iknow that it's probably different,
but based on where you live, I havesome beautiful libraries near me.
(32:25):
And guess what they are?
They're quiet.
They're really nice.
They have lots of lots of amenities.
A lot of libraries now have actual likequiet rooms like study rooms that you
can rent out so it's perfectly silentas opposed to like currently have a loud
dog like snoring underneath whatever.
So yeah, that's my that'smy hot tip for you.
Just get out of thehouse, go to the library.
(32:47):
Yeah,
that's a good one.
Yeah.
So, okay, rank for me.
This is like, this is likeputting you on the hot seat.
Rank for me, if you, again, inyour perfect world, you have people
that are working on their SEO.
Where would Pinterest rankfor you in terms of like, I
mean, websites first, probably.
(33:09):
Where would Pinterest rank for you?
Would it be second?
Over like, Instagram,Facebook, other things?
Yeah, if you are focusing on creatingblogs, I would rank Pinterest second
if that's something that you're stillkind of like, this is month number
one of writing one blog post a monthI'd probably like get a couple of blog
posts under my belt start creating pinsfor them in the meantime, like, yeah,
(33:30):
focusing on Instagram and Facebook.
But if you do have 10 years of blogposts that you can put on Pinterest,
I'd, I'd jump on there today.
Okay.
I love that.
Even if you had, I feel like even if youhave 10 blog posts total from your whole
like business, you could go put 10 pins upthere, probably find some other content.
There is so much content that you havethat you probably just can repurpose.
(33:52):
Go mess around with it, go putsome stuff up, see what happens.
Like just get to practice andget out there and start doing it.
And you can always create morethan one pin per blog post.
So if you do want to create, like, havea system where you create one graphic
for a blog post and then have like,maybe a graphic showing a before and
after that you feature in the blog posts.
And then also just like pin photos of yourwork that, are related to the blog post.
(34:16):
You can like.
You can knock out like50 pins very quickly.
You can take one piece of content and justdo a ton of different things with them.
Okay, that is genius.
So it is, you don't want to haveto worry about doing it yourself.
I do Pinterest management.
So that's where I take care of likeliterally everything with Pinterest.
So setting up yourprofile, cleaning it up.
(34:38):
If you've had a profile for a longtime, cleaning up those boards,
creating new boards, Doing keywordresearch for your content, creating
those pin graphics, and then gettingeverything scheduled out, writing the pin
titles, pin descriptions, so like, youliterally don't have to touch Pinterest.
You can't have to do
a single thing.
Yes.
So if you don't want to do Pinterestbut you know, it can really help your
(34:59):
business, then that's what, I'd recommend.
I do also have a service that's kindof like a hybrid DIY done for you.
So if you want to do Pinterestyourself, but just like kind of
getting started seems overwhelming
Is this like a part of yourjob that is really fun?
Like just when I think aboutyour job, like is this a part
where you're like, hey, this isa really fun part of what I do?
(35:20):
Yeah, I really love Pinterest becauseit is kind of a little bit of like
analytical doing keyword research,finding keywords part, but then it's
also like creative with like creating thepin designs and, kind of experimenting
with different things like that.
So I do find Pinterest really fun.
I do also find SEO fun.
I know a lot of people don't,but I think that's fascinating.
I mean, like,
(35:40):
I don't know nearly as muchabout it as you do, obviously.
But I, I love it because it is,it's a little bit like it's, it's
strategic and it's a little bit of agame and it's a little bit of like,
like you have to, to play aroundwith it and experiment a little bit
and the rules change all the time.
And it's just, it's it'snever ending amount.
So I do, I do kind of like, Okay.
(36:02):
See it as a game because even things justlike writing meta descriptions I'm like,
okay How can I like fit everything thatI want to say within a hundred and sixty
characters and like yeah You know playingaround with all these different wordings
to try to find like the perfect one.
And yeah, I think it's fun
No, I think so, too I think that's sortof like one of those things that you know,
like I Could like, if you told me I had tobe an accountant, I'd be like, no, please.
(36:27):
Like literally anything.
No, thank you.
But I think that's an example ofeverybody, all of us at like, we're
in the career we need to be in becausewe find certain things fun that other
people would find 0 percent fun.
Like I have a lot of clientswho were like, I would never
want to be an organizer.
I don't understand how you see this.
I don't understand how youSee a path through this.
I don't and I'm just like, Ohmy gosh, it's just like Tetris.
(36:48):
I think it's great.
So I love that you love SEO because somany people are like, I think about it.
So we're on the rightspaces for us, which I love.
So yeah, definitely.
Where can people find you?
On the internet.
Yeah, so you can find me atjulia renee consulting.com.
My Instagram is also atJulia Renee Consulting.
(37:09):
My email isjulia@juliareneeconsulting.com.
So everything is is thesame across the board's.
Well, and I said this the last time youwere on, but I mean, please follow you,
you are a great Instagram follower ora great Instagram follow, I should say,
because you have such great content.
And so really like, if you're just,kind of getting your feet wet, if
(37:32):
you're newer to the industry or evenif you're established, you, I love your
Instagram because it really has things.
And,
So if you are kind of lookingfor some of those tips and
tricks, but I also recommend.
Getting on board, figuring out, ifthis is something that you just can't
figure out on your own, that there'sa reason that experts like Julia exist
to do it for you and to do it well.
(37:53):
And to get you up and goingversus, being a year down the road
and going, Oh, I should probablylook at that Pinterest thing.
So,
yeah.
All right.
Is there anything that I did not coverthat you wanted to, did I miss anything?
Well, I think so.
Yeah, just, yeah, if you get started onPinterest today and you should be seeing
traffic a year for net from now ratherthan if you wait a year and you're not
(38:14):
going to see anything from Pinterest yet.
That is a great point.
Yeah, getting started todayis a great thing to do.
So I'm going to take my own advice and I'mgoing to get started on a couple today.
I will be the guinea pig.
I will do it first.
And then everyone else.
Can, can follow along.
So, we will link all of Julia'sinformation in our show notes
(38:35):
including her couple of thoseblog posts that she talked about.
So just hit down if you've neverhit show notes, by the way, there's
a ton of information in show notes.
It's sort of like a descriptionon Pinterest or YouTube or
any of these other things.
There's a ton of stuff in the shownotes that tells you exactly how to
get in touch with all of our guests.
So you can just do a quick littleclick and you will be right over to
Julia to help you with Pinterest.
(38:56):
So, well, thanks for coming again todayand thank you for your dedication to
professional organizers and making surethat people can find them on the internet.
Yeah, thanks so much for having me again.
We appreciate it.
Hey pro organizers.
It's Melissa, did you think I wasnever going to record a podcast again?
I know it's been a hotminute, but here I am.
I am back.
Never fear.
I've never gone long.
I actually had someone that I did azoom with someone who was interested
in, um, talking about some of ourcoaching services and she's like,
Do you have like a regular schedulefor the podcast and I'm like, no.
(00:22):
And I've said this before, but if thereis a week that there is not a podcast, up.
I just want you to know thatit's not because I'm sitting on
the couch, not doing anything.
That means that I have some sortof complete insanity going on.
And I just am not able to get anepisode that I love out and I want to
make sure that the episodes are reallygood and that they really hit you.
(00:43):
So thank you for your patience.
And one of the things that Irecommend too is going back.
If there, if you are.
Missing me, which.
That's so sweet.
If you do miss me, I really appreciate it.
Um, and it definitely let my familyknow that you actually miss talking to
me and hearing from me because I thinkthey would like to hear from me less.
But anyway, If you want to go backinto our catalog, we have 200.
(01:07):
What are we on 211 podcasts?
I don't even know.
There is tons of stuff in the back catalogthat is, uh, dare I say, really helpful.
And it might be that a relistenkind of helps jog your memory.
I do that for some of the businesspodcasts that I listened to.
So highly recommend it.
If you're ever like, Hey, where'sMelissa, what is she doing this week?
Why isn't she podcasting?
(01:28):
Lots of back episodes that you can go to.
So this week I am bringing you anepisode that is about something that
you might not have thought of as beinghelpful in your organizing business for
marketing yourself and for getting eventhose local in home organizing clients.
And that is Pinterest.
I personally love Pinterest for homeimprovement projects and recipes,
(01:51):
even though I don't like to cook.
Um, it's one of the mysteries about me.
I do like looking at recipes, butI don't like actually making them.
Someday I will become the domesticgoddess that I know I'm ready to be.
Anyway, I love using Pinterest, butJulia is going to talk to us about how
to use Pinterest for your business.
And we're going to makeit really easy for you.
I am also going to give you a littlebonus, which is that if you email me.
(02:18):
hello@proorganizerstudio.comand say, give me.
my stuff!.
I will send you a couple things that Ihave created after talking to Julia, that
will help you get started on Pinterest.
So hit me up with that.
And without further ado here isJulia of Julia Renee consulting,
talking to us about Pinterest.
(02:40):
have.
a great day organizers.
We are back with a frequent guest.
Is this like your, I think it'slike your third time on the podcast.
I don't know.
You've been on several times.
It might be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So,
yeah.
So Julia, so happy to have you back.
Yeah.
Thanks for
having me again.
So you are an expert in one ofmy favorite things, which is SEO.
(03:00):
I talk about it all the time.
It's really important.
And I just, I want people tobe paying attention to it.
But today we're talking about kindof SEO for something really specific.
So do you want to tell us aboutone of your other passions?
Yeah.
So the other one is Pinterest.
And Pinterest is actually a search engine.
It's a visual search engine.
So that's why I focus on SEOand Pinterest specifically.
(03:24):
Yeah.
Can you tell us what avisual search engine is?
I don't think I've everheard that described before.
Yeah.
So just like a search engine, you goto Google, you type in, a question or,
you're looking for inspiration, something.
And then Google will show you someresults with different websites.
Pinterest is the very similarconcept where you go, type something
(03:44):
into Pinterest and then insteadof just like links or, Locations
on a map or something like that.
Pinterest is going to showyou images and videos.
So if you ever go to Pinterest, all youare going to see are images and videos.
You're not just going to seelike links to websites with, the
titles or something like that.
Right.
So, Pinterest has been around, I, Iwas like one of the early adopters to
(04:05):
Pinterest, like, way, way, way backin the day, you had to like, know
someone who had a link and let youin, the whole thing, and I remember
at the time, I was just like, oh mygosh, this is so fun, and it was like,
there was so much cool stuff on it, andnow it's just, it's totally exploded.
Yeah, last
few years, especially likeso many people are using it.
And I know I tend to go to it personally.
(04:28):
I don't know if this is maybe likedemographically like my age range.
I go to Pinterest way before Iwould consider going to YouTube.
Yeah, I'm the same way.
Like my teenagers will go to YouTubeinstantly like for everything.
So talk to me a little bit about,I think Pinterest feels a little
bit more like, oh, either it's forbig creators or it's for people
(04:48):
that are doing recipes or whatever.
So can you talk a little bit aboutPinterest and how organizers are using
it, can use it, how we should be usingit a little bit more effectively.
Yeah.
So Pinterest, like you said,has really kind of taken off
in the last couple of years.
I think it's, it's definitelya combination of things.
They added videos or at leaststarted focusing more on videos
(05:09):
in the last couple of years.
So people have jumped on that wagon.
They kind of adapted Instagram reelsinto what they called idea pins.
And then that has been througha lot of different iterations.
So now it's just kind of video pins.
And then they've also started ship.
focusing more on e commerce andproduct sellers on Pinterest.
So if you do sell products youcan become a verified merchant.
(05:32):
Super easy if you're like using Shopify.
But even if you're just, creating blogposts or, also videos Pinterest is
still a really great platform for that.
I'll say most of the time it's,those standard photo pins that
are still driving the bulk oftraffic for a lot of businesses.
So for, organizersspecifically definitely.
As an SEO person, I'm alwaysrecommending writing blog posts anyway.
(05:55):
But using those blog posts on Pinteresteven if I know a lot of people are
like, oh, well, I don't have likebeautiful photos or anything like that.
People seem to care less abouthaving like very curated photos.
It's just kind of like Instagram wherelike back in the day you had these very
professional photos and now, peopleare just posting cell phone selfies.
But even if I don't know that isn't.
A concern of yours, you can definitelyjust use like pin graphics and do
(06:18):
like, text overlay on top of imagesor even just get kind of like
standard what do they call stockimages and do a text overlay on that.
So it doesn't necessarily haveto be your image on the idea pin.
And then, Within your blog post, youcan, show off the work that you're
doing, even if it's not, your, yourperfect curated photos and yeah, just
leave people back to your blog post.
(06:39):
And then from there, once they're on yourblog post, leave them to, signing for
your email list or checking out products,if that's something that you have, or
your services, or, kind of using yourblog posts to lead them where you want
them to go once they get to your site
So you said something about, soI think we all know, all of us
know how to post on Instagram.
All of us know how to post on Facebook.
Also let's just go backjust really quickly.
(07:01):
Julia and I would both likeyou to write blog posts.
Yes.
Please write some blog posts.
Please see our prior podcasts.
And if you are an inspired organizer, Ihave extra stuff from Julia in the course.
So if you're an inspired organizerlistener, please go into the course.
You have lots of SEOtips from yeah, right.
Those blog posts.
But I think that we know how toput those things on Instagram
(07:23):
and Facebook, Pinterest.
I will say to me feels like, oh my gosh,I don't know how to post on Pinterest.
So is it hard?
Is it easy?
Tell us a little bit about that.
It's not hard.
It is, it can be a littledifferent than other platforms.
You do need to have an image.
So, it's not like Facebook write.
An update about your lifeand then post it without any,
(07:44):
photos or videos or something.
You do need to have a photo ora video to add to Pinterest.
And then when you go to upload, so, you'lljust go to Pinterest, click on, they have
like a little plus sign to add your pin.
You'll upload your photo, your video.
And then it has a title boxand then a description box.
So this is where it's like verysimilar to, Google and SEO and a
(08:04):
little different from like Instagram.
The title is very similarto like the title tag.
So, kind of like the title ofthe blog post or a variation
of the title of the blog post.
And then the description is kind oflike a summary of what, people will
find when they, click on the photoor video to go to the blog post.
So it's, You're not just like kindof writing a little update about
your life or something like that.
(08:24):
You are writing about your blog postor your, whatever content that you
have, and incorporating keywordswithin the, the title and in the
description, to help it, that pinrank on Pinterest and help Pinterest
understand what that pin is about.
Right.
So Pinterest and YouTube maybe are alittle bit more linked like if people
are doing YouTube content like that's thesame thing the title and the description.
(08:47):
Yeah, a lot
of rich content you can put in thereof SEO, professional organizer.
decluttering, organizing yourlocation, your geographic
location, all those things.
Those are great things.
Does Pinterest have a limiton the number of characters?
It does.
I don't remember off the top ofmy head, but I honestly don't
know I've ever reached the limit.
(09:07):
It's pretty long.
It's not like a, it's notlike a meta description.
That's only 160 characters.
Like it's a couple hundred characters.
And you don't need to like go crazyand fill out every single one, just
writing like a couple sentences.
About, whatever is in the blogpost or whatever is in the video.
Another thing is you don'thave to use hashtags.
Hashtags is something Pinterest triedout like three years ago or something.
(09:30):
Didn't really work.
People didn't really know how to use them.
And then Pinterest was like, yeah,we don't worry about this anymore.
Yeah, so just don't use hashtags.
They don't matter.
They don't, they don't hurt you if youdo have an old pin that has hashtags.
You don't have to go through anddelete them, but like it doesn't help.
So just don't do them.
I have seen a lot of peopleusing chat GPT to write their
pin titles and descriptions.
(09:50):
And since chat GPT is usinginformation from like, I think
2021 is or 2022 or something.
Yeah.
So it is actually using hashtags and alot of pin descriptions that I've seen.
So if you do want to use like chat GPTto get, at least get you started on
writing pin titles and descriptions.
Just tell them not to use emojis orhashtags cause you don't need those.
(10:11):
Okay.
That's good to know.
That's I know that we were going totake like a quick detour, but FYI,
if you are using chat GPT, which bythe way you should, because it is,
it offers a lot of great help, but.
It is a start, not a completesolution and you've just said
something really important.
So chat GPT, the, the, the most recentinformation it has in its learning
(10:32):
is the last time I checked 2022.
So it has basically twoyears of information.
That has not been fully, like,whatever they do with it, sucked
into their great big AI machine.
So just know, I mean,that's a really great point.
I had never really thought about that.
It's going to give you somethingthat might have worked two years
ago and isn't going to work now.
(10:52):
And I mean, even though it's pullinginformation up until 2022, it's still
reading, blog posts that were publishedin like 2019 that may have been like
recommending hashtags or something.
So yeah, you can't, you can'tentirely trust ChatGPT yet.
It's a start.
It's not the
whole
thing,
So what do you recommend for people?
So like for a professional organizer,let's say you've never been on
(11:13):
Pinterest before, like you reallydon't know anything about Pinterest.
Do you suggest like getting in thereand just kind of looking around seeing
what kinds of things that you react to?
Like I know.
I will react to a pin that, visuallyhad something like a little bit
more interesting or descriptionwise or whatever, like, do you
recommend kind of getting a layof the land and looking around a
little bit or just diving right in?
(11:34):
I think it depends on how comfortableyou are with your brand and creating
pins and things like that If youhave absolutely no idea where to get
started It is probably helpful tokind of search around on pinterest.
I would actually search maybe some similarblog post topics that you have or just
general organizing topics Kind of seewhat people are doing, but then you don't
want to copy them because you want Yeah,you want to make sure that your content
(11:57):
is standing out So get an idea of whatpeople are doing, but don't copy them make
sure everything that you're using on yourpin designs is in line with your brand.
So if you, have like more cooler tonesbecause you want people to feel like
relaxed when they come to your websitebecause they're already stressed about all
the clutter that they have in their house.
Don't use like bright red on yourpin designs because that's not going
(12:18):
to match what people are going tosee when they go to your website.
So making sure that you areusing your branding, your brand
colors, fonts, all of that.
Or at least something very similar,because if you have maybe a lot of like
script fonts with your website, whichI don't recommend having a lot of,
because
that can be harder to read.
But that really is harder to readon pins, especially when you want
(12:39):
to have something that stands out.
So at least make sure you're using fontsthat kind of align with your brand if
you're not using your, exact brand fonts.
Yeah, that's just a greatsuggestion in general.
And I feel like the last time we talked,we talked a little bit about script fonts.
Maybe I'm just making that up,but it might've been someone
else entirely anyway, whatever.
It doesn't matter.
Script fonts.
I'm a big fan of script fonts.
(13:00):
I like them.
I think they're fun designs.
They are very hard for people to read.
And,
Especially the age range of peoplethat we're generally targeting.
A lot of times those are ones, andespecially on Pinterest, if you think
about if you've ever searched Pinterest,you have to make those pins really
super easy to read so that peoplewho are just looking at that one
(13:21):
little kind of thumbnail essentiallycan read what you have on there.
It's important.
Yeah.
Especially because I think it's like 70percent of people on Pinterest are using
like the Pinterest app on their phones.
So it's even smaller.
So like whatever you're designing on yourdesktop, you have to make sure also stands
out and super easy to read on your phone.
Yeah, Canva, I am positive has aPinterest setting like if you do it.
(13:45):
Yeah, so you can go to Canva,which I'm going to say this for
the millionth time if you do notgrow, please go run and get it.
It's the best 13 I spend a month.
Frequently wonder why theydon't charge me more money.
But you can just go and click a newthing and just they give you a ton
of different things and you just typein Pinterest and it will give you.
(14:07):
The exact size that you need tobe sized properly for Pinterest.
And then you can go into their templatesor themes and just put like, I don't
know, kitchen organizing, whatever, orkitchen and just get a beautiful graphic.
And then, like you said,just put some text over it.
It's, it's really, really easy to do.
Yeah, Canva makes it really easy.
And yeah, like you said, they alreadyhave templates that you can just like
(14:29):
swap out your colors and fonts for.
Yeah.
So if people are diving into Pinterest,do you recommend that they set up
kind of a business page and have someSome things that they follow, like, so
on Pinterest, you can follow people.
And so if someone wants to followyou, like if they find one of your
pins and then want to follow you,if someone's really into Pinterest,
(14:51):
like they're going to want tosee like a page that's built out.
Right.
Is that fair?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So followers are helpful becausewhen someone follows you or.
Even if they like interact with a lot ofyour pins, Pinterest is more likely to
show your content like in their home feed.
So just when they open Pinterest,they're not searching anything.
They're just scrolling, which people do.
(15:13):
I do that.
Yeah, I do too.
Yeah, so, it is helpful to have followers.
It is not, I'll say it's notnecessary to, like, have a ton of
followers in order to see a lot oftraction and traffic from Pinterest.
So it's not like Instagram where, like,you need to get 10, 000 followers in order
to, like, have your posting by 100 people.
So it is helpful in that sense.
But yeah, when people go to yourprofile, you don't want to have, like,
(15:33):
boards that are, all over the place, orI see this a lot where someone, like,
it has a board that has one pin on itor a board that hasn't been updated
in five years, something like that.
So making sure that your boards atleast have a couple of pins on them.
Look a little bit built out.
And for anyone who's like, brand, brandnew to Pinterest boards are basically
just like, categories of your content.
(15:55):
So you can have different boardsfor, kitchen organizing, kitchen
cabinet organizing, pantry,like you can get very specific.
And it's actually helpful to get alittle bit specific because the more
keywords that you're targeting withinyour board titles and board descriptions.
Again, the more information you're givingPinterest to know, because people do
search by boards and then also whateverpins you have pinned to that board kind
(16:17):
of reinforces to Pinterest like, oh,this is about pinch, kitchen cabinet
organization, or this is about, productsfor organization, something like that.
So don't just have like kitchen, like,get, Specific with like, pantry shelf
organization, something like that.
But then also don't get sospecific that you only have that
one pin that is relevant to it.
(16:38):
Because again, you do wantto make sure you have a few
pins for all of your boards.
Pantry paperclip organization.
Yes.
A little too specific.
Yeah.
The, so you said, I wrote down, Iactually wrote down while you were
talking, I'm like, so pro organizer studiohas a pretty robust Pinterest that I
don't do like remotely enough with us.
That is a definite it's adefinite weak spot for me.
(16:59):
So I was personally excited to talkto you today, but I just wrote down,
I was like, Oh, update my boards.
Cause I know my boards are.
For sure.
At least four or five years old.
And I'm sure that theyhave a bunch of old stuff.
Like I, I could totallyread from that now.
It'd be a very enjoyableway to spend an evening.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
And then also if you like maybe startedwith a personal account or currently
(17:20):
have a personal account that you're,transitioning to a business account
or something, and you have like abunch of boards that you don't want
to delete, but just aren't relevantyou can make them private boards or
you can just archive them if you're,you kind of want to like Refer back
to them if you want to, but you're notcurrently like pinning new content to it.
So that way you don't like, loseanything that you've pinned because
yeah, I, I made my account a businessaccount after having a personal account.
(17:43):
So I had a bunch of recipes.
I'm like, I don't want to have to create anew account and like re pin all of these.
So I just make those private.
I love that.
So if someone is just starting out,let's say has never done a pin before,
do you recommend going back intokind of your content that you've
put up and just reposting it all?
Like if I have old blog posts, like aslong as they're still relevant, like post
(18:04):
it on Pinterest, it's a brand new sourcefor people to find your stuff, right?
Oh, yeah, definitely.
And that's why one of the reasons whyI love Pinterest is because if you have
built up a bunch of content over theyears you're probably not like re sharing
it on Facebook or, Instagram regularlybut you can re share it on Pinstagram.
Pinstagram, wow.
That would actually bea great combination.
Yeah, that would be.
(18:25):
You just came up withsomething new and I'm Yeah.
Yeah, I'll just see if I can, Ican get some funding for that.
Yeah.
You should go grab thatURL while you're at it.
Yeah, so if you are, you have aton of old content, you can like
definitely repurpose that on Pinterest.
Definitely check to make sure it'sstill like relevant and you're
not pinning to, a bunch of productlinks that, lead to four or four
(18:46):
error pages or something like that.
But yeah, and then Pinterest is greatbecause it can bring a lot of sustainable
traffic to your website, so somethingthat you pin today can like, give you
traffic for months to even years to come,rather than like Facebook and Instagram,
you have a post and then it disappearsafter like, Yeah, yeah, so this is,
really great for kind of building upthat sustainable, evergreen traffic.
(19:10):
I've seen pins.
I had a client who had a pinfrom like 2009 that was still
bringing traffic to her site.
Yeah.
That's like a thousand years ago.
I know,
but it was like still relevant.
People were still, continually to save it.
So then it was still being shownto new people on Pinterest.
Yeah.
Oh, that's super cool.
(19:32):
So I can't promise something that youpin today is still going to be there
in 10 years, but it is definitelylonger than, Facebook and Instagram.
That's crazy.
Okay.
So on that front though, so since,like YouTube has their shorts that
they're being, so you were talkinga little bit earlier about Pinterest
kind of getting into, video content,what would you define as like, reels
(19:52):
are obviously like a minute long.
What is video content thatis good for Pinterest?
If someone has video content.
Yeah, it's something you kind of needto play around with because I see very
different things for different accounts.
I will say typically under a minute,people also don't listen with volume
on and then Pinterest automaticallyhas them like muted anyway when
(20:14):
you're kind of like scrolling through.
So create something that is, alittle bit more like eye catching
that will, you know, yeah.
Maybe doesn't need to havevolume to, show whatever you're
showing or whatever you're doing.
Yeah, I had an account.
She was like creating a lot of videosfor Instagram of just like her talking
and those didn't perform super wellbecause People don't know who she is.
(20:35):
They don't recognize her face because,it's not like on Instagram where, you
know, all of your followers, well,not even all of your followers, but
mostly your followers are seeing yourcontent, they recognize you, they, have a
connection with you, whereas on Pinterest,this is kind of like a cold audience so
they're not gonna, really know who youare unless they've been, following you
and engaging with your content already.
So, Just keep that in mindthat it's a cold audience.
(20:56):
They likely can't hear what's goingon in your video So you you do want
to kind of like have it more visual?
And less dependent on sound I also dida Pinterest audit for an account who
was using a lot of like the trendingsounds from Instagram on their profile
Like instagram reels and that was reallyhelping their reels perform, but it
did absolutely nothing on pinterest forthem so yeah, just keep it more visual
(21:19):
before and afters you can also do like,slideshows of Photos that you've done or
something like that So it doesn't haveto be like you have to create a brand new
video all the time You can repurpose yourinstagram reels do slideshows of photos
showing before and afters of productsor projects so you kind of experiment to
see what works well for you, but thosewould kind of be my, my recommendations.
(21:42):
So I mean, I mean, I think that, thatI am very much a proponent of you
don't have to use social media tohave a successful organizing business.
And there are so many, thealgorithms of Instagram and
Facebook change so constantly.
And it's not to say that they don't onPinterest, but is Pinterest a little
bit more of the like, It probablyhas more of a long tail of like, if
(22:03):
you put something up there, it hasmuch greater chance of getting a
reach versus Instagram and Facebook.
You have such a short window oftime that it might be relevant.
Is that fair?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, whatever you put onPinterest today, it's not going to
like rank on Pinterest tomorrow.
It is something that is kind of likemore, long term and builds up over time.
(22:23):
But yeah, whatever, you're It's,should bring you traffic in the
future and it's not something whereFacebook and Instagram, it's more like,
something that's more timely and thenalso, stops being seen so quickly.
Yeah,
I know.
So I'm a big fan of the posting theposting software called one up app.
There are a bunch of differentposting planally does it as well.
(22:46):
Do you recommend some of those thingsfor posting to Pinterest as well?
Kind of the auto post?
Or do you recommend kind of goinginto Pinterest and doing it?
I know there's Tailwind also, like,do you have any favorite pieces
of software that you recommend?
Yeah, so Tailwind is probablythe one I use the most.
Tailwind was like kind of the firstPIMS scheduler and it was like
(23:06):
created specifically for Pinterest.
So that's kind of like what alot of people use for Pinterest
just because it's, It was thefirst one that was around.
Planoly I've used.
Later I've used, I don't loveit for Pinterest specifically.
Pinterest does have theirown native scheduler.
So you can, I think you can schedule up tolike 30 days on the Pinterest scheduler.
(23:28):
So it's free.
If you're looking forjust, an easy free option.
But yeah, the great thing about, Imean, any of these schedulers and with
Pinterest is you can schedule out likea month or two at a time and then you
don't have to go back to Pinterest.
Until it's time.
Yeah, you don't have to think about it.
You don't have to like show up and,dance around and, do all these new
videos every day or something like that.
(23:49):
Like, you can just scheduleeverything out and then, not have
to think about it for another month.
Yeah.
Well, I love that.
I mean, I would just thinkthat this is the kind of thing.
And I mean, I'm going to personallyspend some time on it too, because
I'm actually first of all, I thinkevery once in a while, you just need
something new to concentrate on.
I don't know.
Just like I'm used todoing all the old stuff.
It's a happy place.
It's fun.
I really like it.
(24:10):
And like every time, like when Ihave, I like doing home improvement
projects and I hate cooking, butI would like to, I would like to.
That makes sense.
And I think especially because it'sat least at the time we're recording
this, it's the holidays and I tendto use Pinterest more on the holidays
because I'm like, I'll get an ideaof like, Oh, I'm gonna make cinnamon
rolls from scratch, whatever.
Like Pinterest, like you said, it's fun.
(24:32):
Like it's, it's not a platform.
I think like you can experiment with it.
What's the worst thingthat will happen, right?
Like just experiment with it, playaround, figure out how to post.
And then you might have one of thosethings that, sticks around for 10 years
or whatever, which is crazy and cool.
Yeah.
And kind of just made me think of ittalking about like with seasonal content.
(24:53):
But yeah, it's, it's.
Pinterest is really greatfor seasonal content.
People start searching for Christmas stuffin like August, I think on Pinterest.
So you do need, if you do have seasonalthings, which I'm sure like January and
also like spring cleaning are huge topicswhere we're gonna Make sure you get
that content up on Pinterest at least,like, two months before, the searches
(25:14):
are really going to start happening sothat way it gives it time for Pinterest
to start ranking that pin, and, whenpeople are ready to search for it, then
your pin is already, ranking higher thanif you just, like, post something for,
this is Thanksgiving week that we'rerecording this, so if you're posting on,
I don't know, organizing your Thanksgivingspices or something like that today
it's not going to have enough time tobe ranking before people are searching
(25:36):
for it, the day before Thanksgiving.
It'll rank for next year,but not for this year.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, that's a really good point aboutlike, doing it early because it's sort
of like, I remember one time, this is athousand years ago at one of my old jobs.
Somehow I found out thatlike, Hershey's starts making
Christmas candy in like February.
And for some reason thatlike weirded me out.
(25:56):
I don't know why.
But, but yeah, you have to think aboutit in advance because if you're thinking
about it around the same time, it'salready too late for these things.
As I tell people a lot, the tentaclesof the internet take some time,
like
not a magical instantaneous thing, whichis very frustrating to a lot of people.
You have to let the machine do itswork, and you have to give it that time.
(26:18):
So yeah, having a schedule in advance,which is You know, can be challenging,
but, but there's tons of seasonal content.
So you've got holidays tons ofgreat organizing content about the
holidays and especially also Halloweenis a huge decorating holiday now.
So in terms of organizing, so youcan start thinking about Halloween,
you can think about a schedule oflike back to school, Halloween,
(26:40):
Thanksgiving, Christmas, new year'sresolutions, spring cleaning.
Like you can get a really nice scheduleof organizing content, build up and
ready to go a couple months in advance.
And Pinterest has a toolcalled Pinterest trends.
It's just trends.
pinterest.
com.
And it's kind of like theirkeyword research tool.
I will say they don't havelike the most information yet.
(27:02):
It's still fairly new.
So like the more specific topicsyou may be searching on there and
they might not have information.
But if you do want to like,just search, like, holiday decor
organizing or something like that.
You can see when the, whenthe searches start to pick
up or when they quote, trend.
So that way you know, like when twomonths before then is when you need to
start having that content on Pinterest.
(27:24):
Okay.
Can you talk a little bitabout so obviously Pinterest
is a worldwide search engine.
And so when we think about, organizerswho want to do, let's say your primary
tool is in home organizing in yourlocal community, can you talk about
why this is still, even as a globaltool, like why it is good for SEO
(27:44):
for local in, in home services?
Yeah, so specifically for SEO, the morequality traffic you get back to your site,
the more it's going to help your rankings.
Because, this is something that Googlecan see, how many people are getting
to your site, how long they're stayingon your site, how many, different
pages or posts that they're going to.
So, So that is going to helpyour rankings over time.
(28:05):
And then if you are trying to like reallyreach that, local audience, it's harder
to do that on Pinterest specifically.
Like people aren't going to Pinterest tosearch for like, Philadelphia organizer.
But you can use your blogposts to kind of, help lead
those more local people to you.
So if you, live in Florida, don't writeabout like, how to organize your like,
(28:26):
winter snowplow or your winter boots orsomething like that, like, talk about
how to organize your beach towels.
Something that's like a lot more specificto your region to help, get those
local searches back to your website.
And you're not going to, bereaching as many people who live,
in like Canada or something.
(28:46):
for listening.
SEO, basically anything that helps yourSEO is going to help random strangers on
the internet find you in your local area.
And it's, SEO has somany different factors.
And I think that we've gotten a littlebit, like what I'm seeing now is I think
a lot of organizers are like, well, I've,I've done, I've done kind of the basics,
(29:08):
but you need to keep doing more stuff.
Like, unfortunately, there's, there's morecompetition and there's more complexity.
And so anything you can do to increaseyour SEO is going to help all of
these things work together to helpyou rise to the top of those rankings.
Yeah, and even just going back to theimportance of blogging, like, the more
often that you're putting content on yourwebsite, the more often Google's going
(29:31):
to come back to your website and crawlit, so the more often Google's going
to be seeing your website and, the morekeywords that you have, the opportunities
to rank for, so, there are lots of, lotsof SEO benefits for blogging and then
also getting that Pinterest traffic.
Yeah.
Okay.
So just really quickly.
So we, we have, let's say you write ablog post, please write a blog, please.
(29:54):
Okay.
Let's say you write a blog post andyou're going to also put it on Pinterest.
If you had, if you could justwave your magic wand and everybody
loved blogging and nobody gotannoyed when you said, please blog.
And no one said, Idon't know how to write.
No one gave you all these excuses.
How many times a month would you suggest?
Blogging for a professionalorganizer in a perfect world.
(30:17):
Yeah honestly, I would say evenin a perfect world, like twice
a month, like I don't need togo crazy and write every day.
Definitely focusing onquality over quantity.
And like writing, at least likeat least 800 words per blog post.
And yeah, I think twice a month ispretty good and I think manageable for
most people, even just once a month.
(30:38):
If you are able to do morethan that, that's great.
But I know if I tell you to do oncea week, then you're going to, either
never ever do it or do it for a monthand then never touch it ever again.
Here's
what, here's the advice Ihave been giving people.
And by the way, I followmy own advice on this.
Not as frequently as I should.
I have said, okay, let's say,let's say it's once a month.
You said you want to just meet the bareminimum that Julia and I are both asking
(31:02):
you to do, which is one time a month.
Go somewhere for a day, like coffee shop.
If you can take yourself out of townand get a hotel room, even better.
Or in town and get a hotel room.
I don't care, but just do it.
To spend one day writingall those blog posts,
you
can do it.
You really, really can.
(31:22):
And just get them all set up and all done.
And then you don't haveto think about it again.
Or even if you did half of a year,even if you did six months at a time,
let's say you did two a month, sixat a time, six months at a time,
just do it all in one fell swoop.
If you can make them reallygood quality and then you don't
have to worry about it again.
Yeah, yeah, and definitely getting outof the house like to a coffee shop or
(31:45):
something is really helpful for likewriting because yeah, just getting
out of your environment is helpful.
I always had to do that whenI was studying in grad school.
I'm like, there's somethingI really need to focus on.
I need to like leave the house.
I have to have I don't knowif this is just like I think
it's probably person by person.
I have to have a change of scenery ifI'm like really going deep on something.
Yeah.
(32:05):
Like, sometimes I evenjust move around my house.
Sometimes that's enough to do.
Like physically, I have to getin the car and go someplace.
Here's my new hot tipthat no one asked for.
Public libraries.
I
was just thinking about libraries.
Yeah, they're great.
The libraries around me and I, Iknow that it's probably different,
but based on where you live, I havesome beautiful libraries near me.
(32:25):
And guess what they are?
They're quiet.
They're really nice.
They have lots of lots of amenities.
A lot of libraries now have actual likequiet rooms like study rooms that you
can rent out so it's perfectly silentas opposed to like currently have a loud
dog like snoring underneath whatever.
So yeah, that's my that'smy hot tip for you.
Just get out of thehouse, go to the library.
(32:47):
Yeah,
that's a good one.
Yeah.
So, okay, rank for me.
This is like, this is likeputting you on the hot seat.
Rank for me, if you, again, inyour perfect world, you have people
that are working on their SEO.
Where would Pinterest rankfor you in terms of like, I
mean, websites first, probably.
(33:09):
Where would Pinterest rank for you?
Would it be second?
Over like, Instagram,Facebook, other things?
Yeah, if you are focusing on creatingblogs, I would rank Pinterest second
if that's something that you're stillkind of like, this is month number
one of writing one blog post a monthI'd probably like get a couple of blog
posts under my belt start creating pinsfor them in the meantime, like, yeah,
(33:30):
focusing on Instagram and Facebook.
But if you do have 10 years of blogposts that you can put on Pinterest,
I'd, I'd jump on there today.
Okay.
I love that.
Even if you had, I feel like even if youhave 10 blog posts total from your whole
like business, you could go put 10 pins upthere, probably find some other content.
There is so much content that you havethat you probably just can repurpose.
(33:52):
Go mess around with it, go putsome stuff up, see what happens.
Like just get to practice andget out there and start doing it.
And you can always create morethan one pin per blog post.
So if you do want to create, like, havea system where you create one graphic
for a blog post and then have like,maybe a graphic showing a before and
after that you feature in the blog posts.
And then also just like pin photos of yourwork that, are related to the blog post.
(34:16):
You can like.
You can knock out like50 pins very quickly.
You can take one piece of content and justdo a ton of different things with them.
Okay, that is genius.
So it is, you don't want to haveto worry about doing it yourself.
I do Pinterest management.
So that's where I take care of likeliterally everything with Pinterest.
So setting up yourprofile, cleaning it up.
(34:38):
If you've had a profile for a longtime, cleaning up those boards,
creating new boards, Doing keywordresearch for your content, creating
those pin graphics, and then gettingeverything scheduled out, writing the pin
titles, pin descriptions, so like, youliterally don't have to touch Pinterest.
You can't have to do
a single thing.
Yes.
So if you don't want to do Pinterestbut you know, it can really help your
(34:59):
business, then that's what, I'd recommend.
I do also have a service that's kindof like a hybrid DIY done for you.
So if you want to do Pinterestyourself, but just like kind of
getting started seems overwhelming
Is this like a part of yourjob that is really fun?
Like just when I think aboutyour job, like is this a part
where you're like, hey, this isa really fun part of what I do?
(35:20):
Yeah, I really love Pinterest becauseit is kind of a little bit of like
analytical doing keyword research,finding keywords part, but then it's
also like creative with like creating thepin designs and, kind of experimenting
with different things like that.
So I do find Pinterest really fun.
I do also find SEO fun.
I know a lot of people don't,but I think that's fascinating.
I mean, like,
(35:40):
I don't know nearly as muchabout it as you do, obviously.
But I, I love it because it is,it's a little bit like it's, it's
strategic and it's a little bit of agame and it's a little bit of like,
like you have to, to play aroundwith it and experiment a little bit
and the rules change all the time.
And it's just, it's it'snever ending amount.
So I do, I do kind of like, Okay.
(36:02):
See it as a game because even things justlike writing meta descriptions I'm like,
okay How can I like fit everything thatI want to say within a hundred and sixty
characters and like yeah You know playingaround with all these different wordings
to try to find like the perfect one.
And yeah, I think it's fun
No, I think so, too I think that's sortof like one of those things that you know,
like I Could like, if you told me I had tobe an accountant, I'd be like, no, please.
(36:27):
Like literally anything.
No, thank you.
But I think that's an example ofeverybody, all of us at like, we're
in the career we need to be in becausewe find certain things fun that other
people would find 0 percent fun.
Like I have a lot of clientswho were like, I would never
want to be an organizer.
I don't understand how you see this.
I don't understand how youSee a path through this.
I don't and I'm just like, Ohmy gosh, it's just like Tetris.
(36:48):
I think it's great.
So I love that you love SEO because somany people are like, I think about it.
So we're on the rightspaces for us, which I love.
So yeah, definitely.
Where can people find you?
On the internet.
Yeah, so you can find me atjulia renee consulting.com.
My Instagram is also atJulia Renee Consulting.
(37:09):
My email isjulia@juliareneeconsulting.com.
So everything is is thesame across the board's.
Well, and I said this the last time youwere on, but I mean, please follow you,
you are a great Instagram follower ora great Instagram follow, I should say,
because you have such great content.
And so really like, if you're just,kind of getting your feet wet, if
(37:32):
you're newer to the industry or evenif you're established, you, I love your
Instagram because it really has things.
And,
So if you are kind of lookingfor some of those tips and
tricks, but I also recommend.
Getting on board, figuring out, ifthis is something that you just can't
figure out on your own, that there'sa reason that experts like Julia exist
to do it for you and to do it well.
(37:53):
And to get you up and goingversus, being a year down the road
and going, Oh, I should probablylook at that Pinterest thing.
So,
yeah.
All right.
Is there anything that I did not coverthat you wanted to, did I miss anything?
Well, I think so.
Yeah, just, yeah, if you get started onPinterest today and you should be seeing
traffic a year for net from now ratherthan if you wait a year and you're not
(38:14):
going to see anything from Pinterest yet.
That is a great point.
Yeah, getting started todayis a great thing to do.
So I'm going to take my own advice and I'mgoing to get started on a couple today.
I will be the guinea pig.
I will do it first.
And then everyone else.
Can, can follow along.
So, we will link all of Julia'sinformation in our show notes
(38:35):
including her couple of thoseblog posts that she talked about.
So just hit down if you've neverhit show notes, by the way, there's
a ton of information in show notes.
It's sort of like a descriptionon Pinterest or YouTube or
any of these other things.
There's a ton of stuff in the shownotes that tells you exactly how to
get in touch with all of our guests.
So you can just do a quick littleclick and you will be right over to
Julia to help you with Pinterest.
(38:56):
So, well, thanks for coming again todayand thank you for your dedication to
professional organizers and making surethat people can find them on the internet.
Yeah, thanks so much for having me again.
We appreciate it.
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