214 | From Middle School Friends to Business Partners! | Tina and Nancy of Uncluttered Spaces - The Pro Organizer Studio Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey per organizers.
It's Melissa.
And somehow inexplicably, wehave reached the end of 2024.
It has been a little bit of aroller coaster, at least for me.
And I think for a lot of other people,but I can tell you that I am super
excited and energized for 2025.

(00:21):
And I have so many plans and somany things that we are going
to do, but to wrap up 2024, Ihave been saving this interview.
I've had it for a while, but I wantedto save it because it is just the
absolute perfect way to end 2024.
Tina and Nancy are going to tell youabout their partnership, which has
such a unique and amazing beginning.

(00:43):
And they are also going to give youa reminder of why we do what we do.
And on top of that, all give yousome really solid business advice.
They have great ideas.
And great things that you can thinkabout as you are making your 2025 plans.
I am thrilled to end the year,introducing you to Tina and
Nancy from Uncluttered Spaces.

(01:04):
How are you?
Welcome to the podcast.
Yes, we're happy to be here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We enjoyed you so muchat the organizing summit.

Oh, at the How To (01:15):
Summit.
Thank you
Yes, the house.
You were great.
Your information was great.
So we appreciate you.
You can tell I'm superpassionate about those subjects.
And one of the biggest things is I knowthat there are a lot of people that listen
to the podcast that weren't at the summit.
But I just, By the way, comenext year because it's great.
But other just, I'm so passionateabout people having the
foundation of their business set.

(01:35):
And a lot of times we like try to go tocollege before we've gone to kindergarten.
And so I was hoping thatit connected with people.
So I'm glad it did.
it did.
It did with us and our team.
Good.
Cool.
How many people didyou have at the summit?
was five of us.
So we had three team members come.
Oh, I love that.
I wish we could have broughtthem off, but we couldn't.

(01:56):
Tell me a little bit aboutyou, your business, where
you are, all of the things.
So it's a long story
That's okay.
I got that.
That was
Okay.
So we started our business 13 years ago.
So it's been a long time.
2011 is when we started.
So going on 14 years and how.

(02:17):
like really a thing
It was way before it was a thingand Nancy and I have been friends
since we were 12 years old andwe sat next to each other in Mr.
O'Neill's English class in 7th grade.
True story.
First day of school, looked at eachother I like your hair and that braid.
I like what you're doing.
Let's be friends.
So cute.

(02:38):
And we formed this friendship that hasbeen ever since we're, we'll tell her age
or 55 years old today, but our friendshipspans at a childhood, adolescence.
Motherhood, marriage and the highsand the lows in those things.
It has life is not all roses and Nancyand I have, through our lifespan have been

(02:59):
through deaths, divorce, breast cancer.
You name it, we've seen it all.
Our kids being born, our kid, oneof my kids having a diagnosed with a
chronic illness, we have been therefor each other through everything.
And with that comes this special trustand bond that I wish every woman has

(03:19):
not only in business, we're really,we know we're really lucky but also
in friendships, we meet so manypeople are female clients, especially.
Who say, I wish I had a Tina or I wishI had a Nancy and I don't have that.
So that's aha moments for us becausewe're in the day to day grind where

(03:41):
we look at each other and we justgive each other like a little smile.
Like we are so blessed tohave this really special.
We do a lot of private high fiving.
Yeah, we do.
We have a power pose.
And this is our power pose.
Everybody knows it in our confit villa.
That works for us.
Like all of our team members werelike, when something good happens,

(04:01):
whether it's small or big, we alwaysjust connect and give her a power pose.
So our friendship goes really far back.
And how our business started was wewere both in this odd, Timeline of our
lives where our kids were no longersuper little, they were just starting
school and Nancy and I have beenboth in the service industry and the

(04:23):
hospitality industry in sales industry.
We have this huge background andwe're like, what do we love to do?
And we spend every day together and youcan only be a gym rat for so long or so.
That was a very short timefor us, but there's so much
you can do in your own house.
Just so you're circling that.
And this is stupid, meaning there'sso much more out there for us to get.

(04:47):
We're smart women.
We're go getters.
We love money in our pocket.
And what are we really good at?
And we combined all of those things.
And we were doing a little bitof house cleaning at the time.
And I hated it.
Nancy was like, this is great.
We get to be together.
And we're just like, we talk all dayand we whip through these houses.

(05:08):
And I was looking at the houses whereI'm like, this has to be so much better,
like this could be styled better.
And we started doing that for people.
And Nancy and I were really good at ittogether because one of our super powers
That is that we can talk without speaking,we can look each other in the eye or give

(05:29):
a subtle glance and we know what the otherone is thinking and what the next step is.
So we're always on the same page.
It works great with clients becauseyou know when you know when the
client is sick of you and you'relike, alright, it's your turn.
Like we could just look at eachother and be like, switch switch.
I love that.
It's like the twin telepathykind of thing or whatever.

(05:50):
It's
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then so it was 2011 and I waslike, our New Year's resolution and
we both have entrepreneurial spirit.
I grew up in anentrepreneurial family as well.
And I'm like, let's start our own company.
Let's be professional organizers.
We had to Google what isa professional organizer.
And we each put in $500.

(06:12):
That was their capital.
And we went on legal zoom and madeup an LLC, Uncluttered Spaces, used
every family member we could thatowns a sign company, a printing
company , website photographer....
So we took advantage of allthat and it did us good.
It started us.
Got us on the map and then our firstbig job was, it's the craziest story.

(06:36):
It was a warehouse, but it waslike four warehouses just filled
with pallets to the ceiling.
It was insane.
And this company brought us inand we had to sit in front of
the CFO, the CEO, and they weretalking about all their problems.
And we're just, we have businesssuits on, we were like, we know
what we're doing, our clipboard.
And we're like, take it till you make it,and he walks us through these warehouses.

(06:59):
And Nancy and I are like lookingat each other, like, but we're
going, Oh yes, we can do it.
No problem.
No problem.
So we left we didn't give a quotebecause we didn't need we said,
Oh, we need time to think about howmuch this whole project will cost.
So we get in the car and we'relike doing our high five in the car
Love it.
how are we going to quote this?

(07:20):
And we figured out our at likelabor and stuff like that.
And We spoke to Nancy's fatherwho had a business for many years
and we said, how do we price this?
And he said I'm going to tell you,you're dealing with a business,
it's business to business.
This is some business decline.
He's it's a different B2Bs,different mentalities.
Like figure out the price you want.
He's and then bump it up 20 percent

(07:42):
Love that.
and offer the 20 percent becausewhat they're going to do is
down to the price you want.
And they think they won,but you want to inside.
And we did that exact thing.
And they hired us on the spot.
When we talked to the contract, it wassuch an unbelievable moment for us.

(08:03):
We're like, wow.
And then we did the job.
And the job grew bigger and westill work for that company today.
And
Oh, that's amazing.
he's brought us so muchbusiness over the years.
But that's what really, I think, gaveus the confidence that we didn't have.
You can't go to College tobecome a professional organizer.

(08:24):
There were no workshops back then.
There was no like how to, therewas very little on the web, on
the internet about our industry.
But once Nancy and I realizedwe could do that project, we
knew we could do anything.
Yeah.
And from that day forward, we trustme, we, when we first started, we did
the, like the little sign with thepull off tabs and every dry cleaner,

(08:46):
we hit every realtor's office.
We did it.
Everything you can hand out.
We did it.
And then we got that one client.
And then from there, theyjust trickled in slow by slow.
Really specific because this issomething that I preach on all the time.
I'm a big fan of sayingyes and figuring it out.
And I know that for some organizers,you have that feeling of I have

(09:11):
to know how to do everything.
I have to know, all the 22 steps thatI need to get from point A to point B.
And if I don't know those, I can'ttake this job because I don't know it.
How did you get that?
Yeah, I got it.
I'll just do it.
I think that there's a, an X factor tothat either you have it or you don't,
but like, how did you fake yourselfinto yeah, we can totally handle this.
Good job.

(09:31):
that Tina is that person.
She's a "yesser."
She asks us everything.
That's just who she is.
She's we'll figure it out.
No problem.
I'm more of the pessimist.
I'm more of I don't need everystep to figure it out, but
I'm always like, are you sure?
Maybe we should think of this.
We should think of that.
We should think of that.
And then I think we just usuallyjust take the leap of faith.

(09:55):
I think we just, We take,we deal with the yes.
We do, but we have each other's back.
And I think that's what's so important.
So even when I'm like,Oh yeah, we can do this.
And I can see out of the cornerof my eye that she's Give me the
look like, okay, are you sure?
But she then implies all the thingsthat I haven't even thought about yet,
but we'll, but makes me think about it.

(10:17):
And then we put into a plan ofaction, but we have each other to back
some, not everything always works.
We've have failed at many things.
We could write a bookabout all of our failures.
The mistakes we've learned, butI'm a big believer without making
mistakes, I'm never going to learn.
So we just push through it and yes, wemake mistakes, but do we learn from them?

(10:41):
Yes.
And have we made some big mistakes?
Yes.
Have we learned from them?
And I think, I just think like Tinasaid, having another person to voice
your opinions to each other about.
Whatever's upcoming when you'rean individual organizer, it's got
to be a hard thing because a lotof it must be running through your

(11:01):
head of if you're not strong enoughto say yes, it would be hard.
It would be, I would see where youwould definitely be like, I don't know.
And that's one of the reasons that withthe stuff that we do, we try to, we
develop a community of people becausethen you can go you need someone.
When I was early in my organizingbusiness and I was truly alone, I found

(11:24):
an organizing bestie and we would just, wewould text and be like, oh my gosh, you
won't believe what happened to me today.
You won't believe what I found today.
You won't, whatever.
And it's just nice to know, eventhough she wasn't solving my problems.
I just was able to talk about andlike you have that built in with each
other, but find it somewhere, whetherit's a community, whether it's someone
you find, like just find that person.
Cause it's really important.

(11:45):
Cause otherwise you canburn out really fast.
Yeah.
I think that's even the wayeven when you're in the process
of doing an organizing job,some days you're not creative.
Some days you have a day where you'relike, I don't know I can't figure
out how that's gonna fit in there.
And she'll walk over and go, vice versa.
Do.
Boom.
Or vice versa.

(12:05):
There's just days.
Like the other day, Tina.
I was doing arts and crafts and puzzlesand games and she walked over and
she was like, I was in a garage andshe was like, I got to take a break.
Hi, I'm having a moment.
I'm like, good, let it out.
Let it up.
Be in here for a while.
And then she went backand she finished it.
Like that's, it's nice to be able to.

(12:25):
Yeah.
love that.
I'm jealous too, because do youguys have spaces that like one of
you hates and one of you loves?
Like I hate it.
And I would love to have a kitchen.
I would love to have someoneto be like here's the kitchen.
I hate it.
Yeah, we do.
And we have a team now and we andone of, I think the best things about
our team, Nancy and I hope, and oneof our team members is sitting here

(12:48):
helping us video tape this right now.
So she could even chime in and
Yes, I would love that.
That'd be
We, I always think, okay, what when theystart working for us and they shadow a
job, because when, if we bring somebodyon, we also want to make sure that they
like what they're doing too, right?
Because it's going to affect theirjob and their quality of work
that's representing our brand.

(13:09):
So these are things thatare like, come shadow job.
We'll pay you for a shadowing, but justlearn and really see what organizing
is, because I think a lot of people havethis misconception about what we do.
But once we find out, we put themat all tasks, and then we find
out what they're really good at.
And we Now they, we knowthat's what they love.
Like Lena is such an awesomeorganizer and bathrooms are her thing.

(13:33):
Girl can do a bathroom like that.
And I can't stand a bathroom.
I don't love bathrooms
Oh, put me in a master closet.
Love it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Bathroom.
No, thank you.
Bathroom.
She gets those drawers all done quickly.
Yeah.
I love it.
I'll take Elena next week in Minnesota.
No.
Great.
you want to go to Minnesota, Lena?

(13:56):
What are some of the likedifficult parts of a partnership?
You're such good friends.
Did you ever have a moment where you'relike, wow, I hope our friendship survives.
Like my daughter last year, freshmanin college, she decided to room
with someone that she didn'treally know, but I knew her mom.
So I've known this girl's mom forever.
They didn't go to high school together.
And I said to my daughter, I'm alwaysgoing to be friends with Julie.

(14:18):
Don't ruin this for me.
Don't have a terrible roommate situation.
Have you ever had times whereyou're like, man, Nancy is really
ticking me off today or vice versa.
I think we do.
I think we do.
I don't know if weverbalize it all the time.
I think we just do we have momentsof, being on each other's nerves?
I think we do.
I think we do.
I just don't, I just don't think we letit, I think we're good communicators.

(14:42):
So we'll say to each otheris something really bothering
you or let's talk about it.
Or when we've had a moment.
We talked about what the situation was andhow we both felt about it and how we could
resolve and move forward and forgive.
I'm not a grudge holder.
It's not really my MO anyway butdo we get on each other's nerves?

(15:03):
Yeah.
This is a 45, 50 year old friendshiprelationship and we're with each
other more than she's with her husbandor her kid or I'm with my kids.
So yeah, the day to day, yes.
But I think the pros far outweighthe cons and I think that the answer
to that question is yes, we havedisagreements, but yes, we communicate
about it and we talk about it.

(15:24):
Yeah.
And we know when someone'shaving a bad day.
So I know if she's having a bad day orshe knows I'm having a bad day, I'm having
I'm not going to go there at work becausethere's not a place for at work, right?
Work is separate than ourpersonal friendship because we
socialize outside of work too.
Yeah.
You spend a lot of time together, like
We
personal and professional.

(15:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
you guys divide things?
So obviously there's the organizingside of business and then there's
the business side of business.
So is one of you the, I want thebusinessy tasks or how do you
divide that kind of the back stuff?
I think we used to divide ita little bit in the beginning.
I think now we, I think we sit downand talk about a lot of it together.

(16:07):
I, like I do scheduling usually,but we do scheduling together
so we decide who's on schedule.
I post schedule, likethere's those simple things.
Tina's much better with, writing emailsand, the wording of things to clients.
I think we're lucky.
We brought on a new girl this yearthat is a project manager for us.
And Lena, who does our socialmedia, those two can whip

(16:30):
through a computer, like nothing.
So I think the longer we've been inbusiness, the older we are, we know
to task things now to a lot of people.
But we job share our, as far as thefundamentals of running our business,
like the financial part, we're bothon board with, we're both aware,
we both have access to all of that.

(16:52):
We sit down together we try andcut out more and more what we
call like office time because.
Our office time is in our van.
One on one of us is drivingand the other is the passenger.
We go through all of ourtasks, our to do list.
We talk from everything from banking toaccounting to marketing to everything.
When it's just one on one.

(17:13):
So our team doesn't see that part of ourbusiness because we keep it separate.
From they don't needto know all that stuff.
Plus they don't understand it.
Like Nancy and I know what's going on.
I feel like we job share a lot of,we communicate daily, like what's
going on within our business.
We're both fully aware.
So if anything happened to one ofus, honestly, the other can just

(17:36):
step in and run the business.
Was just thinking about how efficientit is to use your traffic time for.
That's so smart.
Yeah.
That is our usually oneof whoever's driving.
The other one is Email, emailing,sending text messages, moving,
paying the credit card off, thosekinds of things that you write in

(17:56):
an invoice, whatever we have to do.
One of the things that I wonder aboutin a partnership, especially when
you're with a friend, like I have thisdiscussion yesterday with someone about
I think there are some things thatneed a separation of church and state.
Like I don't want a personalfriend to work with my finances.
I don't want a, like I, I wanted tohire a stranger as a realtor, for
instance, instead of someone we knewwhen you started your partnership,

(18:21):
did you have any sort of like legalagreement in place or anything like that?
Or did you just trust like,Hey, it's all going to work out.
How did that.
Look for you guys?
I think we always viewed itas a 50/50 equal partnership,
legally, financially, everything.
So whatever debt we have, we know we're50 percent in on it, whatever money that's

(18:42):
assets we have, we're 50 percent in on it.
To me, that's such simple math, right?
Yeah, it is.
not complicated.
We're believers on not tryingnot to complicate things like It
doesn't have to be complicated.
And I don't think that part of ourbusiness has been complicated at all.
So it's just literallya 50 50 partnership.

(19:05):
But it's important tohave some things in place.
Even if it's 50 50 to make surethat everybody is in agreement.
I think sometimes there can be handshakeagreements in even among friends.
You just have to be carefulbecause things happen.
yeah, they do.
I don't know if you and Ihave ever, I don't think we've
ever really discussed that.

(19:25):
I think we always justthink it's going to work.
It's
I don't even know what, sheknows like in my, she's my power
returnee for my health, like it's
Oh, yeah, that's good.
and I said, okay, if I die,like you just get Uncluttered
Spaces, it's written in my thing.
Like it's her and I started thisbaby, like nobody else can touch it.
My kids can't touch it.
Her kids can't touch it.

(19:46):
Her husband can't touch it.
It's our baby.
And with that is you get that baby.
Because I trust you, we built thistogether and we came in equal.
We came in completely equal.
I'm sure anything can happen.
I've heard nightmare stories.
I have friends that havepartnerships and it's.
So nitty gritty and it's one partner'sreally nitty gritty to the other and

(20:09):
Nancy and I aren't nitty gritty yeahWe're not counting every single thing.
It's hey, this is what I foundtoday that we got, you know
It's just it's interesting.
I don't know
I think it's also you haveto pick the right person.
It might be that you also,someone listening to this has a
best friend from middle school.

(20:29):
They might not be the bestperson to start a business with.
Here's the key thing, right?
Nancy and I did write down ourpersonal values, which we already
knew because we grew up together.
Yeah.
So I already knew her personal values, sheknows my personal values, and they align.
Our values align withhow we conduct ourselves.
Just as a human being, as a woman,as a friend, as a mother, as a wife,

(20:53):
like they all, as a daughter, asa sister, like these things align.
And I think that's part of thisconnection, but when we planned our
business, we also wrote down a listof our business values and we wanted
to make sure that we were using thesame terminology of what it, what we
wanted to put out there as our brand.

(21:14):
And our brand is us.
People know us.
Because we're compact and that'sone of that's our mission statement.
It's using create creativityto provide solutions.
With kindness and compassion.
That's our mission statement.
And that's who Nancy and I are.
We're just natural problem solverswith kindness and compassion.

(21:36):
And that's so important.
And that's really always ourend goal with our business.
It wasn't like we're in thisto make a million dollars.
We never had that mindset.
It was like, what can we do that we'rereally good at change people's lives?
And be present for our familiesin the meantime, actually,
flexibility in our life.

(21:56):
Our kids were really little when westarted this and now they're all grownups.
They're all gone.
So it's been a huge journey of,yeah, how that, yeah, it started
Yeah.
Like you said.
side hustle to now big business.
Yeah,
You have seen each other personallythrough marriage, kids and sicknesses,

(22:19):
you had the in sickness and inhealth and better for better or
worse, you're like that, but.
But businesses have ups and downs too,businesses sometimes get sick or they
get tired or they get, whatever, likeyou've had, you've, I'm sure over the
years, like 13 years is a long time.
You've probably had a lot of upsand downs too that you've had to
Oh yeah.
We've had months where we're like,Oh my gosh, what are we going to do?

(22:39):
Yeah.
So much business this month,or one of us has gotten sick.
How do we handle that?
How do we continue?
One of us went through amajor life changing event.
How do we handle that?
We went through the pandemic as a businessfrom beginning through an end, but we took
those opportunities, I will say, and we.

(23:00):
Seize those opportunities becauseit gave us a minute to pause in
our lives and reflect not onlypersonally, but professionally.
And I think all those times thatwe've had moments of where one of
us had a situation where we weren'table to work for a certain period of

(23:20):
time, we were like, I got your back.
Stop worrying about it.
Stop calling me wonderingwhat's going on all day.
We got it.
You know what I mean?
I got you, you got me, that whole thing.
And I think one of the best thingsfor our business that Tina and I ever
did was we got a mentor through SCORE.
Okay.
Oh, I know lots of people who love SCORE.

(23:41):
oh yeah, when we were going throughthe change of like, this really
isn't a side hustle anymore.
We're getting really busy,but it was accountability.
We didn't have any accountability in thebeginning, I think, for accomplishing
a lot of the business things.
And we sat with a mentor andthat mentor is like, listed them.

(24:02):
I'll see you in a month.
This is your homework.
And I, and then we wouldmeet every two months and she
was, this woman was awesome.
We owe a lot to her becauseshe made us very accountable.
And I think to this day we'reaccountable for everything in our
business because of that learning that.
And that's a big deal.
Cause I see that too.

(24:23):
And the people that we work with orthat I work with is you need someone to
cater, especially cause we're by we'reliterally, I'm literally by myself, right?
Like you need to be like, Heygirl, what have you done today?
Have you done an email today?
Have you done this?
Yeah.
That's something that I do and thework that I do because it is really
important to have someone saying,Hey, did you remember to do this?

(24:45):
Hey, where are you?
Hey, I want to push you a little biton this because I want you to go.
I want you to go achievethis thing, right?
That's awesome.
job is a little bit of tough love, right?
you.
Bye.
that because otherwise it'sreally easy to be like, I could
just sit on the couch today.
Cause you can
Yeah.
Yeah.
And even in our business clientswe treat our clients very different

(25:08):
than we did in the beginning.
Yeah.
And that's like a whole crazy story.
And that talks about the ups and downs.
business and the lessons,hard lessons we learned.
But one thing we learned is don'tput all your eggs in one basket.
correct.
Absolutely correct.
Don't ever do that.
And we did that for a while.

(25:28):
And it was it was great.
And we were like, this is great.
And then The shit hit the fan with thisclient and then it wasn't so great.
It wasn't so great, butit was looking back.
This is where we talk about lessons.
Like it was the best thing thatever, it released us and changed
our mindset to a business mindset.

(25:49):
Yeah.
It's really hard to explain, butit was like, And that's the same
time we got our business mentor.
So I know people talk about youhave to think like a CEO when
you own your business and you do.
And we didn't for a long time.
And I think that was abig lesson we learned.
And once, once we shiftedthat mindset, Oh my goodness.
Like we can manifest anything.
Yeah.

(26:09):
And I think you have to learnto set boundaries with clients.
100%.
are certain clients that just wantto be your best friend and they
want to call you and they wantto text you and they want you in.
And there is a point to where youhave to say, yeah, this is a work.
This is a client relationship,not that you can't act like their
friend and have compassion for them.

(26:31):
I'm not saying any of that,but there is definitely.
You definitely have to learn boundaries.
And one of the boundaries we, oneof the rules we have is we do not
accept people's donations personally.
And we tell our team that do not, whateverthey try and push on you, please say no,
because with that becomes an attachment.

(26:51):
And with that attachment becomes a favor.
And with that favor is nowwe've crossed the line between
professionalism and friendship.
And we don't want strings attached.
But we jokingly say whathappens once it gets in the van?
Who knows, right?
But don't accept it.
Don't say, yes, I wouldlove this beautiful dress.

(27:11):
Because they're gonnaexpect something in return.
Yes.
right.
Or it's going to or the narrative is goingto change to I, I know that I talked to an
organizer about a similar situation wheresomeone on her team at like the client
had been very generous and very nice.
And then someone on herteam did accept something.
And then it became a the clientstarted to think maybe she's trying

(27:33):
to encourage me to donate something.
Like a whole thing.
It's messy.
It could
It's messy.
And I will tell you even with this is apersonal thing, but I'm totally with you.
I had a client who had veryfancy things, lovely things.
And I went there.
It was the first day I worked with her.

(27:54):
And four seconds after we started, she'sOh, I'm getting rid of this jacket.
This would look really cute on you.
Put it on.
She was really pushy.
So I put it on to make her happy.
And she's Oh, you need to take that.
And I was like, actually,no, thank you so much.
That's so nice.
But no, and she was really offended.
And I was like, Ooh, I actuallyticked her off by not taking it.
But I tried to explain it was awkward, butI was like it's just against the boundary.

(28:16):
But she was really annoyed.
And I'm like, I still know I didthe right thing though, because
otherwise then it just becomes a thing.
Yeah.
It does.
We just tell because Lena, who'sthis young, I'm looking over here
in the corner, like she's young,cute figure clients are always
trying to push their fashion on her.
And even though we're like, this isnot her fashion, but I'll enter, I can

(28:37):
tell when she'll say no gracefully.
And, but then I might interruptand be like Our policy
She's not allowed.
allowed to save her of that, butwe tried, but that's one of those
things that as organizers we haveto talk about because we're always
in those really awkward situations.
And Trust me, Nancy and I don'twant other people's stuff.

(28:58):
I got enough.
I got my own stuff.
We always tell people that too.
We're like, we got our stuff.
We got my own stuff.
Yeah.
am always amazed to since we're talkingabout this, it's amazing to me when
people are like, would you like thisdusty, terrible thing that I don't want?
And I, and again, I'malways really nice about it.
Oh, thank you so much, but I can'tsay I just couldn't possibly.

(29:18):
I'm like, why would I want that
Yeah.
I know.
I want that.
Exactly.
But Nancy and I, we, I definitely havelooks on my face and then once our
clients get to know us and they laugh,they appreciate it, they're like, I
know that you're giving me a look.
Like why would I want that?
Yeah.
Trust you.
Yeah,
luck.
Oh yeah.
It's funny and also re reselling things.
This is don't do that either.

(29:39):
Yeah.
Don't start reselling things.
Don't even involve yourself.
It is ugh.
It's
let's talk about that.
and money.
It's a waste of time and money.
All right, preach to me, ladies, because
Yeah.
I know.
I know.
Are you doing it?
Do you do it?
No, but here's why I want to here'swhy I want you to preach because
we have newer organizers who listento this and frankly, experienced
organizers who I think it in a trap.

(30:01):
It actually happened the other day.
Someone in our Inspired Organizer® group.
She was looking for some help and shegoes, I just told her she's newer.
And she goes, I told a clientthat I would sell all their Legos.
And then I told them I would do this.
And I told them I would do that.
And someone in thecomments is stop right now.
Go back to her and belike JK, I can't do this.
Like just, I
On my wheelhouse, that's what we say.
Not in our wheelhouse.
I did it at first.

(30:23):
I was a, because.
Like I said earlier, I wasa say yes person and I will
always be a say yes person.
And I'm glad I said yes, because thenI learned how terrible it was and
that I didn't want to do it anymore.
we did the same thing.
We did.
Yes.
Yeah.
And on eBay and it was sucha waste of time and money.
We actually returned his items and said,this is not, it's not going to work.

(30:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I do what you're saying thoughof you do have the ability to say
say yes when it is really hard.
Or when you don't know, becausethen it gives you that practice.
If it's a mistake, you learn from it.
And then you can also justbe like, this is terrible.
I hate it.
I hate every second of it.
It's not worth my time.
It's not worth my money.
And by the way, you're going tocome up with your own lecture.

(31:05):
You can give clients yourlovely set commentary.
You can give to the client and belike, no, this is why I don't do it.
And this is why youshouldn't do it either.
And we do that.
And then if it's somebody who's reallywanting their stuff sold Like they think
their antiques are worth something.
We just were very prepared withsome estate traders that we know.
And we say, here's their number.
Good luck.
You might get two cents onthe dollar, but good luck.

(31:28):
Yeah.
I this is a total tangent, but I did apresentation the other day at a bougie
retirement community, and it was forpeople who were thinking about moving
in there and, all the, older peoplethinking about downsizing and the, I did
questions and answers and a bulk of thequestions are how do I sell my stuff?
How do I, tell me about estate sales,tell me about the blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like.

(31:48):
I just was, I was saying it sodiplomatically, but I was like, so many
people in this room have things that theythink are worth something and that they're
going to find out that they're not.
And that is a bummer.
It's
it is a bummer.
It is a bummer because they think it'stheir treasures and that they've been
holding on to this for a long time.
Since my grandmother to my grandmother,and it's not worth anything and

(32:11):
Actually, just on that subject today, thismorning, I was slothing in bed a little
bit, reading the news and there's a reallygood business insider has some not great
articles, but they had a really great onethat interviewed a bunch of professional
organizers about the Gen Z versus boomer,like the stuff conundrum and like boomers
wanting their kids to take their things.
And, but it was actually a really goodarticle, a lot of good stuff in it.

(32:33):
So it's just a little low
Oh, okay.
that and read it.
It's good.
But back to partnership.
I will say Nancy and I always laugh likewe look at each other when we completed
a big project and we're just so grateful.
We think I couldn't do this without you.
Yeah.
And having that partnershipbecause it's a hard job, what
we do, professional organizers.
And it also, our partnership has set usto be different than other organizers.

(32:59):
And I mean that in a positive way, evenhow we sell our company, because we
are large project, large scale base.
So we are not.
Absolutely.
Get
We're not session based.
So we don't sell sessions.
So somebody that wants a sessionorganizer will refer them to
somebody else locally that does that.
And we explained to them, that'sa one on one relationship with

(33:21):
somebody you work three hoursat a time, perhaps once a week.
It depends on how theorganizer wants to set you up.
They, you have a lot of homework.
So you have to be accountable most of thetime to work on a one on one session where
we're like, there's two of us were team.
We never send no more thanno less than two people.
We have a two person teamminimum for any job we do because

(33:44):
you need that person to run.
We call it like working the frontend and the back end of a job.
And it just makes us more efficient.
We're twice as fast.
And also we do same day removalsbecause we talk about the psychological
part of organizing with their client.
How once we get to make them to makea decision, the other team member

(34:04):
is taking it out and putting it inthe van and getting dropped off at
it out.
end of day.
It's now.
And we just talk about how we'velearned over time that really
team based, paired up organizers.
It's just.
So much more efficientas a service to provide.
And it also helps when Nancy and I talkabout when we're working one on one of

(34:25):
us, we'll start one on one with somebody.
And it's mentallyexhausting for our clients.
It's not physically exhausting, butit is mentally exhausting for them.
So we know we only have like bitesized parts of their attention.
And most of our clients have ADD.
And I know you've talked about that beforein podcasts and it's a top you know,

(34:46):
top topic, hot topic in our industry.
But Nancy and I, with the benefit ofhaving two people is we can tell when
that person's tired of one of us and we'llgive each other a glance and we'll just
change directions and one steps in andonly one of our clients Figured it out.
She was one of our favorite clientsand she was like, wait a minute.

(35:08):
I know what you just did.
I know what you're doing.
I, you just switched on me on purpose.
Didn't you?
Because I was stuck and we're like,yep, we got to keep it rolling along.
Yeah.
Keep it moving.
But I love that you fool most people.
I like that.
Yeah, we do.
And then I give a lot of creditto somebody that owns their own
professional organizing and does it.
Even if you're doing it three, four hoursa day, it's a lot for one person to do.

(35:33):
There are a lot of parts of it.
What you just said, really.
I think about these things a lot.
I basically spend my entire lifethinking about professional organizing,
which maybe I should get a hobby.
But like I do think if you really thinkabout, cause when you said clients
get mentally exhausted, And sometimesthe clients are like, why am I tired?
And I just say to them, because youjust made thousands of decisions,

(35:54):
like paperwork in particular.
They're like, why am I so
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Decisions and your brain is tired.
Guess what we have to do as organizers.
We not only have to anticipate what we'regoing to have them sort through next.
We're going to get the piles together.
We're going to categorize them,figure out what, the best way to
work with their psychological state.
We're going to, we're havingto do all of that in our head.

(36:16):
So we're doing 10 times as muchwork as they are, and we're hauling
their stuff out to their car.
We're tired.
It's hard work.
It's hard work.
It's hard work.
Elena was over here on the side here andshe just wrote two really good words.
She wrote Decision fatigue.
Yeah.
For the real thing for your client.
Decision fatigue.

(36:37):
That's a good one.
Listen, we gotta get Elena on the podcast
I
She's
over here's
not.
Come over here, Elena.
Hi Elena.
How are you?
So if everybody's watching onYouTube, if you're watching on
YouTube, you can see Elena too.
No, fatigue is, that's really important.
And like you, Elena, can't you see it?
Like you can see a clientstart to get tired?
Oh, yeah.

(36:57):
Oh, yeah.
And that's the good thing about youguys is sometimes I feel like you can
make a decision for people and theyreally, they actually appreciate it.
You're like, you don't need that.
And they're like, you're right.
Yeah.
earlier this week with someone.
I said, sometimes my job is to give youpermission just to take that thing away.

(37:18):
I will just say to them, wouldyou like me to disappear this?
And they'll be like, yeah, they don'twant to know what happens to it.
They just don't want to do it themselves.
Exactly.
Yeah.
There is that.
There is a period wherethey say, you know what?
I'm done for the day.
You know where I'm going with everything.
yeah.
I'm going to let you make the decisions.
And I'm okay.
Decision fatigue is really important.

(37:38):
Important in our partnershipbecause one of us will get fatigued
and the other one can jump in.
So yeah.
Awesome too.
Yeah.
And that's, I think how we're ableto do these bigger projects too.
And we always say to the client, likewe do a project from beginning to end.
To end like we neverleave part of it hanging.
And we don't start another jobuntil we're done with your job.

(38:00):
Okay, I love
focus Yeah solely on your project and wehave x amount of time to do it because
we've already forecasted the time inour contract, what we're going to do.
And we that's our focus is that hugeproject from beginning to end, from at
the last detail, I mean we hang artwork,stage houses, we redesign the spaces.
We're doing it all.

(38:21):
Besides doing the organizing, theremove, the decision making and we
have great team members like, when Tinaand I are doing all this purging and
we're pushing and we're separating.
They're implementing, like they'reworking their butts off to, one is
taking the donating out, one is doingthe trash, breaking down boxes, whatever.
One is resetting the room as we'respeaking and moving on to the next.

(38:43):
So you know, to have good team membersis really important to Tina and I.
Yeah.
So
Average length, since you'redoing bigger jobs, do you have
an average length of one client?
I know it wildly varies, but.
you mean per job or
Yeah are your jobs usuallylike a week, two weeks?
Are you with someone a

(39:04):
two weeks.
We've done two weeks.
We've done three years, believeit or not, a three year project.
Yeah.
We've done most of our projects.
We try and get the whole house right.
Like for us to take a job, we tryand sell because as we know, one
thing we've learned after all theseyears, one space leads to another.
One space is not going to solvethe client's issues because we also

(39:29):
dive really deep into the issue.
We look at how the family functions,we look at how their brain works,
you know when we interview wedo a free consultation, and
sometimes they take up to an hour.
Nancy and I spend time, butwe ask really hard questions.
Yeah, I will come out and ask justby looking around and seeing what's

(39:50):
going on do you have ADD issues?
Have you ever been diagnosed?
Is there something else that'shappening within your family dynamic?
Because one thing we found out too, a lotof our clients have like life things that
alter their lives, whether it was a deathor divorce or an accident or an illness or

(40:12):
something so life changing that has thrownthat has derailed them and organizing,
but inside them they have that ability.
We know that they once had it andwe help them get it back, and that's
I think what separates hoarding topeople looking chaos and hoarding.
I'm going to call it thosetwo different things.

(40:32):
I don't even know if that's a realthing in our industry, but hoarding
is very different than chaos in my
totally different.
And and we get vetted forhoarding clients, and we're not
licensed certified psychiatrists.
So we don't take, we don't take them on.
Because that is a trauma, a severe trauma.
So severe that you haveto dig really deep.
We do.

(40:53):
Deal with other traumas.
Like we talked about death,divorce, illness that we know
that we can get them back out ofthe chaos back into implementing
systems that they can continue touse because we fail at our job.
If we leave a job and we have tomake them once a month, Nancy, do
not really want to do maintenance.
We don't.

(41:14):
We don't, if we're good at our job, we'regoing to put systems in place and they're
going to work for how that family works.
And there are times there havebeen times, it's recently happened
to us where we had a client, shedidn't want to be super involved.
She was trying to explain to us what hersystem, what she wanted for her family.

(41:34):
We thought we implemented it and thenthe next day we came back and she had
little tags everywhere and was like,this is not going to work for my family.
This is not going to work.
And we were like, all right,then we need your attention.
Like you have to be present.
You can't have it both ways.
present.
So else you're wasting your money.
You're wasting your time and you'rewasting your money because you're

(41:54):
going to be unhappy with our service.
That's not fair to you or I or us.
So let's figure out what actually works.
And then we got it right.
And that was, that happens
There are the clients whoexpect you to do the miracle.
And it's we are miracle workers,but we cannot do everything.
Readers
like
Once in a while we'll have someone,there was one yesterday actually in our

(42:17):
group where she was, she sent a pictureand she's my client, it was a pantry.
She had a list of things that clientswants, but she was like, Oh, also
she doesn't want organizing supplies.
She doesn't want this.
She doesn't.
And I go, so she wants a fairy tolike, like there are only so many
things that we can do and say, I'mnot willing to be involved, but
I also don't like what you did.
It's hard.
That's a hard thing.

(42:38):
It is hard.
I'm going back to something that yousaid to when you were talking about a
lot of the people we work with had somesort of a, an event, and it might be,
it's, divorce or it's just being a parentof small kids or it's who knows what.
I would also add to that the pandemic,I think, really messed people up.
Myself included.
And I, we were very, I was veryfortunate during the pandemic, I didn't

(43:00):
have any huge life changes, but I justthink there's been something about
since 2020, I think a lot has changed.
So I think even just that has reallychanged people's brains and made
things a lot harder to accomplish.
I agree.
I think, I also think the pandemic itwas a terrible thing and people died from
it, but it truly helped our industry.

(43:22):
I agree.
Oh, for sure.
Yeah, because people are
People are like in theirhouses going, wait, but husband
has to work here every day.
Where is he going to be out of my bubble?
Where are my kids goingto be out of my bubble?
Those kinds of things that I thinkreally boosted our business a lot
and people made a lot of changes.
And I think a lot of people realizehow much stuff they add and why am

(43:44):
I bogged down with all this stuff?
I don't need it.
I, I think it made them feela little sense of like just
being with their families more.
Being okay.
Yeah, and I think all ofthose things are true.
I think that we, we have fundamentallychanged, but also we realize how
important our houses are, how it'sworth it to have some of these services.

(44:07):
This is a really important partof our life, and we need to
just concentrate more on it.
, right?
Yeah.
That's where I keep gettingback to normalizing what we do.
, I think 2020s helped ushead in that direction.
. Let's hope so.
That it's normalized what we do.
And I think what I, and I think likeTina and I have always talked about this
with some of our older clients, is thatthe generations coming up behind us,

(44:32):
they're not living for great linens.
Antique furniture, china patterns,they're not ironing their
pillowcases like our mothers did.
They're in life for experiences.
They want to be withtheir kids every moment.
They want to be with their kidsout doing things all weekend long.
They're not doing household chores.

(44:53):
It's a lot different foryounger people nowadays.
And I think it's starting to makeolder people realize like it's,
there's a shift and young people and.
Moms, they're willing to hire peopleto come in and want the pantry that
they want, or want their mastercloset like they want, because they
don't want to do it on the weekends.
They're tired.
I, yeah, I have a client I did aconsultation with this week and she

(45:18):
just, she has four kids and she's a stayat home mom, but she's I can't do it.
She goes, my husband keeps askingme like why can't you do it?
And she goes, I can't becauseI'll get one little thing done and
then all the other things stop.
And I'm like, yeah you don't First ofall, you don't have to explain it to me.
I'm with you.
Yeah.
It is.
It's just really hard.
And you just want someone to belike, can you please fix it for me?

(45:39):
And then I will go do it.
But I need someone to come in and fix it.
It's like a reset.
I think a lot of familiesneed like seasonal resets.
And Lane and I were talkingabout that recently.
Like what, when in one of our vandrives, Nancy was in another car, we were
like, okay, in our industry what are wereally selling the type of service that.

(46:02):
Professional organizing is and how dowe get people to understand what we
do and it's there's because we havea client who She needs a reset like
she needs Right before the holidays,she needs right after the holidays,
she needs right when school ends andshe needs right when school starts.
And really that's the commonreset of how Nancy and I lived

(46:24):
our lives and raised our family.
That was my own personal reset.
And I think a lot of peopledon't understand that.
And it's like string.
I always described it as havingyour stringing beads as a mother
that you don't have organized whenyou don't have organization skills.
And that not somebody unties constantly.
So the beads going off andyou're just putting them

(46:46):
beads are falling the
And I think when you do a solid, likehardcore reset and put systems in
place and do a whole house in totality,it is amazing and life changing.
And that woman or man, whoever can nowproceed and follow those procedures.
Does that make sense?

(47:06):
And I just think that's.
huge of what we sell people.
And that's why we callit the project base.
We're like we're going to sell youa huge project, but it's worth it.
And also women, the money youspend is the best self care you
will ever spend on yourself.
Yep.
Ever.
Ever.
and it is if my calendar is correct,it is mental health awareness

(47:30):
month as we are recording this.
And I always tell people, cause we're, Ithink one of the things that the pandemic
did bring us also, and this is just, it'sbeen happening over the years, but we are
a lot more open about talking about mentalhealth and how important mental health is
and talking about depression and anxiety.
And I'm very much like you, I willask a client, do you have ADHD?
The other day I said,

(47:50):
or depression.
Yeah, I go, have youbeen diagnosed with ADHD?
And she goes, How could you tell?
I'm like,
Yeah.
. But I do think we're so much better in saying this is a mental
health service we are offering.
One of my favorite client quotes Iever got was, I did a cost benefit
analysis of you versus my therapist.
You were more effectiveand you cost less money.

(48:12):
That was like a great testimonial.
But.
This is especially for, I'm notjust saying we only service moms.
We don't, we service lots of people,but especially for moms especially
for people that have a lot of chaos intheir life, this is a service that helps
anxiety, depression, all of the things.
Yeah.
It does.
It's huge.

(48:33):
Yeah.
And we're expensive.
Yeah.
And we tell people that,listen, we're expensive.
And recently, and a lot of organizerstalk about know your worth.
Know your worth.
Nancy and I have figured out our worthover the years and we know our worth.
Yeah.
We're not afraid to quote our worth.
And we sold a big job to a clientand she was having a moment
in the beginning and she was.

(48:55):
Anxiety, everything was justlike crashing in, you have this
moment and she made a comment.
She's and you're really expensive.
And I turned, I stoppedand I said, you're right.
I, we are really expensive,but I guarantee you, I, we
are worth every single penny.
Yeah.
And you're going to come out on theother end spending a lot of money,

(49:15):
but we're going to change your lives.
That's why you hired us.
And, She said that was the best thing.
We worked for her for now a year anda half and we will always be on her
payroll and always on her team andsupporting her and her family because
we changed her life and she knew it.
Yeah.
After it was said, but I'm not Nancyand I are not afraid anymore to just.

(49:37):
Let people know and not everyone'sgoing to be able to afford us,
unfortunately, and I wish we couldhelp everybody that comes our way.
But we do try and break it down.
Like maybe we'll start, work within yourbudget and start starting the phases.
Sometimes we'll do phases, breakit into phases, let's do phase one.
We'll start
I love to help people who trulycan't afford our services.

(49:58):
And I've talked to a lot ofpeople who feel that same way.
And what I remind people sometimesis that I was talking to someone the
other day who really just wanted tomake her services extremely inexpensive
so that anybody could afford her.
And I just said what I want you to do ischarge the people who can truly afford it.
And then.
Do some clients probono or do some clients.

(50:20):
I told a story about I had a clientthat I said, I could you afford 20 an
hour and then I forgot to invoice her.
Like you can do those things, but you needto get paid what you are worth by people
who very much can afford our servicesand who You know, I have a client coming
up who made sure that I knew what herpersonal training schedule was and her

(50:41):
yoga schedule and everything else, becauseshe couldn't be around during those times.
And I'm like, yep, we, you'repaying for all those other things.
I am a service just like those services.
And it's very much worth it to the people.
Yeah.
And there's other ways to get back.
One of our core values in our businesswas we give back and Nancy and I
brainstormed, how do we want to give back?
Who do we want to give back to?

(51:02):
And in the beginning we were knockingon doors, believe it or not Opportunity
councils in our local community.
We were looking to help like homelesswomen living in shelters, getting
them into their new apartment.
And there was so much bureaucracyand red tape that we couldn't get in.
So we finally did find anorganization that we do volunteer

(51:22):
at and we help and it's.
It's a shelter for women and we,they give them skills, life skills.
It's an 18 month program thatgives them life skills to live
independently as with their children.
And we volunteer and we teach themorganization skills and we help
out with the group home itself.
So we do know like we, it is importantfor us to give back, but you can give

(51:44):
back in so many different ways andjust giving your service for free.
Yes 100%.
I absolutely love that is thatthere are lots and lots of ways that
you can help and give and probablyspread the word much farther than
working with one person one on one.
I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
what are some of the things that you dolike when you talk about like you want to

(52:06):
normalize what organizing is do you guyshave anything specifically that you do
or have you thought about anything like Ibecause I'm very much on board with this
We, so one of the things we,we've been working through is
like the umbrella of our services.
It's such a big umbrella and Nancy andI've tried to narrow it down over the

(52:26):
years because we also have learned whatwe like and what we don't like to do.
One of the services I, we wouldlove to normalize, which we learned
about at the HT Summit, like wewere really interested in this
subject is the concierge relocation.
Oh, yeah.
presentation I
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we've been growing.
That's what we do.

(52:47):
And that's probably ourfavorite thing to everything.
Like we love doing thathuge complicated project.
Like we have a client right now, they soldthree homes across the United States and
relocated them all into one central home.
So we had an intake three totallydifferent, unique purge one
thing and get rid of one thing.

(53:08):
Of course
Trucks.
I think we're on our like20th truck coming in today.
We have a team there today thatthey're receiving and it's literally
like trying to make sense ofall this stuff and organize it.
But those are the jobs we loveand we love to be known for
because they're complicated.
They're messy.
I love problem solving.

(53:28):
So it's yeah, let me put thispuzzle together type thing.
I think I'm getting off topic with your
no, you're not.
Not at all.
But just those, that is a big partof the concierge relocation part.
of the things that Brandon said in thatpresentation is, and I know he did,
he, they gave three different ones.
So just anybody who wasn't at thesummit, Brandon and Mallory of

(53:50):
Hello, Happy Home are talking about,these concierge move services.
They do really big scale moves.
And one of the things that heliterally had the room chant.
It was very funny.
Take back the unpack,
Yeah.
Like we want organizers to beinvolved with moving because like
I have a friend that I helped apersonal friend that I helped pack

(54:11):
up and she said, Oh, my her mom wasgoing to help her on the other end.
And she goes, Oh, my mom is sohappy that you're doing this
because the last time I moved, shescreams at me from the other room.
Ashley, why is there a shoe in a pan?
And my heart is yeah.
Because there was space in the pan.
I don't know.
I was like, we're notputting shoes in pans, right?
You can make so much money from,even if you just very simply

(54:32):
did packing and unpacking, somuch money to be made in moves.
Oh, I agree.
I think that I think it's so gratifying.
I think it's very gratifying forus and for even our team members, I
think it's very gratifying to packsomebody up, organized, purged.
And then when you move them in, howeasily it flows into just putting it away.

(54:53):
And I think there's times where we kindof estimate jobs a little bit longer
and we finish it so quickly becauseour team members are so efficient.
We're so efficient with thepacking that it, the client
is what you're done already.
It's so gratifying to see them be like, I
And they're thrilled.
Yeah.
Thrilled.
Normalizing their professionalorganizers should be a part of moving,

(55:16):
because when you set up systems fromthe day you move in your house, your
flow should be consistent throughoutthe lifetime of owning that house.
. And that's a big problem when wewalk into homes that are total chaos.
And they'll say I moved inand I, this is how I moved in.
Yeah.
20 years ago.
20 years ago.
And we're like, okay, that's a problem.
There's still boxes in the basement.

(55:37):
I haven't moved.
I'm like, why you.
Why bother?
So I think the answer to that questionis normalizing the relocation service
as a normal, much needed service underthe professional organizing umbrella.
And we're trying to rebrand ourvans with, cause it's just says
professional organizers on it.
And I think I was the crazy onethat lifted my hand in the Lecture

(55:59):
with happy home saying can we allagree to call it the same thing
Oh yeah.
I was in your session.
Yes.
Because I think that's a bigproblem that Nancy and I and
our team, we go back and forth.
Is it move management?
Is it, I like movement.
We always call it move managementbecause we really manage it.
We pack it.
We expedite it, move with the mover.

(56:19):
We receive the move with the mover.
Nobody's going to Google move.
That's the problem.
People don't
you're going to come up as a mover.
It's all factual.
Nancy, I've been really like downthis wormhole in that part, that
umbrella, that part of under umbrella.
What do we all agree collectively asprofessional organizers to call this?

(56:40):
I think it's conciergerelocation is what everybody
I like that, too, because, I wasin your exact same session and
that you are absolutely right.
We need a name for it, but it has to bea thing that people are going to Google.
Otherwise, it doesn't work, butit is a little bit of education
of, hey, I think most people don'tknow that we can even do this.
First of all, a lot of professionalorganizers don't offer it.

(57:01):
I'd love for you to offer it.
Do, In the bounds of your, abilities,interests, whatever, but even if you just
unpacked people, even if you, I don't wantto pack, I don't want to deal with movers.
I don't want to do with all that have areally robust unpacking service, because
exactly what you said, people move intohouses and they're so stressed out.
And they're like, I don'tcare where the cups go.

(57:21):
I don't care where my shoes go.
I don't care.
Eventually you do care.
You just don't care the weekend you movein and then you're in chaos for infinity.
And so.
The selling point is let us doit for you right the first time
and you don't have to redo it 40
times.
And every moving company andevery professional organizer
should have relationships.

(57:41):
You should at least try to find somebodyyou can do business with that you're
going to give each other business because.
And they do not know how to pack.
No.
They offer it.
Movers do not know how to pack.
They'll just take a drawer and dump it.
we had I, I actually, my commenton this post in our group the other
day was this is the worst poststhat we've ever had in this group.

(58:03):
And I was only barely kidding becauseit was people were talking about like
gross things that they have found.
And most of the comments were thingspeople found when movers packed it,
like 90 percent of them, it was likemovers packed a bowl of oatmeal that
then went in storage for six months.
Movers packed a piece of pizzathat they just, they do not,

(58:24):
they will pack literally trash.
So an organizer isn't going to do that.
So how much
No.
And it's going to costthem more money on that.
If you're not organized from thepack to the whole process, it ends
up costing you a lot more money.
And I think that's anotherthing we're trying to normalize.
With people to the cost of these typeof jobs seem so expensive because they

(58:50):
are very labor intensive the amountof labor you need for these jobs is a
lot They're gonna save money down theroad and it's trying to sell that point
to them too is you know, yeah sting
cost and price aredifferent and people don't.
Always see that it is, there is aprice of our services and then there

(59:13):
is a cost of choosing not to do it.
And there is all sorts of things,opportunity costs, all sorts of boring
financial things that you can talk about.
But the difference between yes, ourservice might feel like it is pricey.
But the cost of not doing it is going tobuild up over time in the following ways.
And sometimes you just haveto come up with that story.

(59:35):
Yeah.
But any other services thatyou guys just love to offer?
I love when we do our luck, we have aluxury concierge service that we do.
Oh, tell me about
a lot.
We have a couple clients who liveout of the States that live in the UK
Okay.
They live in beautiful homes thatwe treat like a boutique hotel.

(59:55):
So whenever they, we, and particularlyone of them, we have set up the
whole house from the time that itwas built and that was really fun.
They were like, This is everything,they had interior designers and the
interior designers bought them platesand, some silverware, but they had like
furniture they had no coffee maker.

(01:00:15):
We were like, so when they comeinto town, they're going to have
to run out and go buy all this.
We offer the service to provide all ofthat in your kitchen, your bedrooms.
So we, they hired us and we love that.
I love that part of our business too.
Just when you walk in their houseand everything is prepared for them.
It's a wonderful feeling.

(01:00:35):
They can come in with ease.
They don't have to worry about anything.
All their rooms are reset, theirprovisions are bought for them.
So it's we set up for their partiesand It's just a fun, it's fun.
It's like light.
It's not super hard work.
Like you're doing all thetime when you're unpacking.
Yeah.
And it's our baby.

(01:00:56):
I think we all treat it like it's our babybecause we actually started it from the
very beginning to make this house, thisbeautiful home into a boutique hotel.
And we tell this client, we're like,this is, we treat it like a boutique
hotel, from the finest fragrance, homefragrance and then we decorate when
they come in town, like we add thoselittle touches, like fresh flowers.

(01:01:19):
And that's the fate, our favorite placefor all of our team members to work.
Yeah.
They love going to this residence becauseit just, it's just a wonderful feeling.
But.
We have background in hospitalityand hotel and restaurant background.
So that was one of the assets webrought to one of the services
when we started unclutteredspaces what are we really good at?

(01:01:39):
It's that we're very goodat the little details too.
And where we live, a lot of peoplehave multiple homes all over the world.
So we're really blessed ofour location of our company.
So we have people who we knowdon't live here permanently.
So it's just, it's theirvacation homes for them.
So it's like a second homefor a lot of New Yorkers.

(01:02:00):
Tina and I have livedhere our whole lives.
We both have left and have come back,but back in the day in the nineties,
a lot of New Yorkers lived here alot and it was their second home.
And then it went away.
They went away and nowthey're coming back.
The trend is coming back togo live in your country home.
So yeah.
But we're fortunate enough notjust to have celebrities but we

(01:02:20):
have that kind of Percentage ofpeople that live in our area.
So that's a plus and why we'reable to offer that kind of luxury
high end concierge service.
A really good point of some of,some services are very dependent
on where you live, right?
Like there, we do, we have peopleof all, in all geographies.
We have people across the, But listento this and just throughout the

(01:02:42):
United States, every once in a while,someone in Europe will be like this
is just a very American centric.
And I'm like, here's whatyou need to understand.
America isn't the same from one city tolike, the difference between Philadelphia
and York, Pennsylvania is wide, right?
You have to look at your own geographyand look at what your market can handle.
But if your market can handle it,and I would argue that a lot of

(01:03:02):
markets can handle a lot of things
If your market has a vacation area,that's your luxe concierge area that
you should be marketing to whether it'sa lake, a beach, whatever, a mountain.
of places have second homes.
I live in Minnesota, almosteveryone, except for the family
I married into has a cabin.

(01:03:23):
I'm not upset about that at all.
It's totally fine.
No, but you have to think about Hey, Ilive in an area where a lot of people do
have these cabins, and now cabin reallyis often just a cabin, but it still is a
second place that sometimes people need,help in their main home or they go away to
the cabin for the whole summer, whatever.
You just have to be really creativeabout the services offering based

(01:03:44):
on the area that you live in.
And Melissa, you're seeing agenerational wealth transition right now.
So these cabins are now being passeddown to this younger generation who
has a different mindset and they'regoing to love a professional organizer
to come in and set it up how theywant it, like a boutique hotel.
They
Sure are.

(01:04:05):
drop their bag and enjoythe cabin that they inherit.
You know what I mean?
So that's another thing too.
Transfer of wealth happening to theyounger generation all over our country.
And that's the generation whowe want to normalize our service
to, honestly, they get it.
They get it.
And they are the generation also that bothof them are going to have to work too.

(01:04:30):
There is that generation of whereboth of them are going to have
jobs and they're the ones that aregoing to say, you know what, honey,
I'm working, I'm I want this done.
I'm willing to pay for it.
I that was actually part of thatarticle I was talking about earlier.
It's an 84 trillion generationalwealth transfer that it's

(01:04:50):
happening.
It's not happening in myhouse, but it's happening other
happening in my house either.
Me either.
We're also, I'm so going to gooff topic because we haven't
even talked about senior move.
Senior relocation, which is anotherbranch of our tree that we service
is just senior move management.

(01:05:11):
And that is, we partnered witha community and I recommend
this for anybody professionalorganizer that likes doing this.
So the assisted living communities inour area, most of them across the United
States are owned by one big company.
And they manage them all.
So if you can get in with that company.

(01:05:31):
So Nancy and I are affiliated withthe ACTS Community ACTS and they
have a subdivision that they havea contract with called Live Now
Relocation that's based out of Chicago.
So it's two women that startedthis company a couple of years ago.
They vet, serve people in the serviceindustry from movers to professional
organizers to real estate agents.

(01:05:53):
And they sell that serviceto these big communities.
And then we are a vendor on that list.
And it, these women listen, reach out tothem, anybody listening because they're
trying to go national and they're amazing.
So we partnered with them that led us toa partnership with the ACTS community.
So now we have this kind of specialdivision within our brand that just does

(01:06:15):
senior move management into assistedliving, which is very different than over
55 Nancy and I just learned this throughtrial and error of being in business.
We were marketing to over 55 communitiesfor years, getting zero out of the bell.
Why are we not getting any over 55?

(01:06:35):
And now the over 55 community is nowunfortunately edging into assisted
living because they're aging out.
The boobies, baby boomers, call themthe boobies, aging out into the final.
It's so sad to talk about itlike this, but literally is the

(01:06:55):
final transition of their lives.
And these communities know it.
So they're literally where welive, they are gutting them and
turning them into cruise ships.
I've met Nancy and I'venever seen anything like it.
The amenities of thesefacilities are absolutely insane.
So over the top.
And it's because they arecontrolling the wealth right now.

(01:07:18):
And I think these companies know,okay, we got to make it better
because they're going to pay for it.
And that is like a trilliondollar industry in itself,
the assisted living industry.
And it's, and those are the clients thatcan afford our services and probably need
us the most because they have no help.
Yeah.

(01:07:39):
So Nancy and I have we'vemade a little niche in that
industry in the last 18 months.
And we've had a lot of their children
Yeah.
who are like, we're hiring thembecause I don't have the time or
the patience to work with you.
It causes fights.
It causes whatever tension betweenall of them, and older people

(01:08:02):
want to keep all their stuff.
And so they, we've gotten alot of people that have been
like, my mom needs your help.
I will be at the estimate.
We will make it possible.
But they physically can't do it.
So they need us where the over 55s,they're still physically active.
And that was the lesson I learned.
Okay.
That's why they're not hiringus because they still have this.

(01:08:23):
I can do attitude.
I can do it.
I can do it.
And they are doing it, but whenyou get to 80, you're not doing it.
And this this retirement communityI was talking about the other
day when I said bougie retirementcommunity, I was not joking.
It is.
When you say it's like acruise ship, cruise ships don't
have anything on this place.
I was like, I move in.
They're on, aren't they?
Unbelievable shift in this, in thatindustry is like, Unbelievable.

(01:08:48):
And, but I have a lot of moneyto move into, but you need so
much money, but they're the onescontrolling that wealth still.
And that's why it makes it.
That was like my aha moment, likeconnecting the dots, wait a minute.
Why are these places bougie up?
Because they have, they're theones with the money right now.
Yeah.
It's amazing that they're takingthose, they're taking rooms down to

(01:09:09):
like the foundations and read them.
Yeah,
Crazy.
Sad.
This is a totally like we're going theabsolute opposite direction, but it's
just like when you look at trends,because one of the things you have
to do as a good business person islook at trends in life in general.
And one thing, and it's probably justbecause I have kids that are college

(01:09:29):
age, but college dorm rooms, whenyou look at what people are doing,
they're hiring professional organizersinterior designers for dorm rooms.
So when you think about that.
That's the aesthetic or that'sthe expectation, I guess is a
better word of and whether I likeit or not is inconsequential.
I do think it's ludicrous, but
Me too.
Me too.
for my own children, they'renot going to do that.

(01:09:52):
But.
My point is the aesthetic orthe expectation of people now
that are younger and younger.
The Instagram aesthetic now,Instagram does everything.
And so then you think that'sgoing to start to transfer
throughout everyone's lifespan.
So they're going to want, dormrooms are nicer now at college.
First apartments are nicer.

(01:10:12):
How, like, all of these things are nicer.
And so the expectation of the upkeepthat comes with that Someone like us
can really help with that throughoutsomeone's entire life cycle.
Exactly right.
And they want instant gratification.
Yep.
So we can bring in a team of eight people.
Here's, I wanted to look likewhat I made a Pinterest board.
I want all these things in it.

(01:10:33):
I want bins.
I want the plastic, acrylic, everything.
So what are some things thatyou think about, whether it's
your partnership do you envisionkeeping this going for a while?
Or do you're just going toride the train till it's gone?
Or do you guys have any thoughtsabout what comes next for you?
have thought about it.
Yeah.
I think we're here until we're readyto retire, but we also are growing

(01:10:55):
our business with the hopes and we dotell our, some of our team members,
like this could be years, one day.
It could be years, one
For sure.
Yeah,
We're not Nancy and I, one thing is wenever got in this to be millionaires.
That was never our value.
Like we talk about core values.
It wasn't like, how can weget rich quick kind of scheme?
It was like how, when we started this,it was like, how can I be home by three

(01:11:18):
o'clock when my kid gets off the bus?
Yeah.
And how can I be home in the morning?
And how can I say, no, Idon't want to work this day.
But that's why we started UnclutteredSpaces because it gave us flexibility.
In our schedule, we could say to aclient, Oh, we're not available that day.
I can't do that day.
And that's, that was priceless to Nancyand I would come put a value on it because

(01:11:40):
that's was what was important to us.
But as we've said, like it has grownand the stakes are higher and our
kids are all grown up and gone.
And now it's not, I work more nowthan I did when I got out of college.
Yes.
Oh, for
That's my first real job.
Yeah, I had for 12 years, by theway, and we're building it to
offer other jobs for other women.

(01:12:01):
We want them to get paid.
We want them to be economicallysound and be able to provide for
that themselves and their families.
So we're, we were big about spreadingthe wealth within our business.
And if that means one day thatone of them or two of them want
to partner up and do it over.
Great.
There we go.
Yeah.
But we're still 55 is still young.

(01:12:22):
We're not
Oh, heck yeah.
Yeah, I'm only five years behind you.
So I'm still trucking for a while.
I just think that, you dohave to have a plan, right?
Because sometimes things happen, butyou, but also just knowing that Like
I, my husband said this to me, likeright at the beginning, when there are
days that you question what am I doing?
Wait a minute.
I think I might've made a huge mistake.
Like what?

(01:12:42):
And he just looked at me and he goes,cause at that time I was making less
money than I had in my prior life.
And he just said, youcan't put a price on.
On your happiness and he'syou're just a happier person.
You just, you enjoy what you're doing.
Like you're not coming home cranky.
And we just had this long talk about it.
And so what you said is you didn't do thisto be millionaires because this would be
a hard business to like, this is not a getrich quick scheme that we're running here.

(01:13:06):
But it is like there is a different valueto a business and flexibility and life
and being able to say, sorry, I can'tbe there today or being there for your
kid, whatever that looks like for you.
That to me is worth anincalculable amount of money.
And we'd love, we genuinely love whatwe do and that's a big thing too.

(01:13:28):
Like we love helping people.
We're just anybody in this industry that'sso a lot of our team members, guess what?
All their degrees are in.
Take a guess.
Psychology like
Yeah.
Psychology.
Psychology.
Everyone will hire apsychology degree, Laina too
Hands up, girl.
We're all in it for the samereasons, whether we know it

(01:13:50):
or not, we're just empaths.
We like to help people we get todo something different every day.
You're not doing the same thingweek by week, day by day, it's
a new challenge every day.
I'll have ADD too, cause we like
100 percent as I recorded a podcastyesterday and I said, whether you have a
TikTok diagnosis or an actual diagnosis,I think we've all pretty much got it.

(01:14:12):
But yeah, someone so the person I washaving the conversation with yesterday,
who is also a dear friend of mine.
She was having one of those days, a fewdays ago, and she texted me and she goes,
I just realized she goes, yeah, this day.
Today is not great.
I hate this job.
I don't like what I'm doing,but I get to go home at the end
of the day and then I'm done.
Like I don't have to behere every single day.

(01:14:33):
And I know when I went to anoffice every day was the terrible.
terrible, Nancy and I neverwould work for our personalities.
And so I, and she said, I justrealized today's not great, but
I'm done at the end of the day.
And then I don't haveto go back to the house.
It's fine.
Like there's a finite, even if youhave a job that isn't your favorite.
It's a finite period of time.
You're making very good money doing it.

(01:14:55):
You can just be done and then youcan move on to a more enjoyable job.
It's really, it is that simple.
exactly.
It is.
And I think that's one of theNancy and I love that part about it
because we love the constant change.
And I think that's one of the reasons whywe both really don't like maintenance.
We wanted we really feel like we didn'tdo our job if we cannot let go of
this disappointing this client's hand

(01:15:17):
That's funny.
Yeah.
So we're always like, Oh, maintenance,Oh, but I would say if I have to
maintain somebody, it means I mayhave failed at what I'm trying to do.
I look at it that way too.
Did I do my job the way I set outto do by putting systems in place
for this family to follow properly.
But we do have some maintenance clients.
That's I think the only placewhere we differ is I do a lot of

(01:15:40):
maintenance and I actually ButI understand what you're saying.
And I understand that youcan go that's not my jam.
I'm going to send that out.
We talked about referral partner,like half people to refer to if
you have someone in your areathat loves maintenance, and it's
not you, we'll send those over to
Yeah.
Yep.
We have done that.
Yeah I love that you have phrased.

(01:16:01):
So you might not love maintenance,but I love that concept you guys
have about resets, for resetsa year or whatever that is.
And that's true.
Those are those seasons of life that youmight need a little bit of that refresh.
And I think
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.
So that's what we actually do that for acouple of clients and those are, that's
what I love that kind of maintenance,but coming in once every two weeks to

(01:16:24):
me now I'm a housekeeper and I thinkthere's a fine line and that, and we
can even do a whole podcast about, howwe say, no, we are not cleaners, right?
We all say that.
We do not clean.
You're not clean.
You do not clean.
Let me make that very clear to youright from day one, you're not cleaners.
But.
That I think there's like thosegray areas in our industry, right?

(01:16:45):
And you have to know as an organizer, whatyou like to do, what you don't like to
do and define them to yourself uniquely.
say yes.
At least once
Yeah.
Oh, for sure.
We did.
We did it all.
We said yes to everything.
And I think that's why we canconfidently right now say we know
what we like and what we don't like.

(01:17:06):
you might decide you mightsurprise yourself either way.
You might go, Oh my gosh, I'mgoing to love doing X, Y, Z.
And you hate it.
Or you might go, Oh, I'mreally going to hate this ago.
Who knew?
I love this.
Just yes.
One or two times.
And then you can set the boundary.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Is there anything that I haven'tcovered that you would like to?

(01:17:27):
Laina, did we miss anything?
Yeah.
My new best friend.
I know.
We know it's not for everybody,but some people like to work alone.
Some people like to work alone,but now I if you're lucky enough
to find one that you trust, it'sthe sky's the limit, really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's really sweet.

(01:17:47):
I just I think it's awesome that whenI think back to middle school, a lot
of people don't enjoy middle school.
I'm one of them.
And so I love that you have thisrelationship that has transmitted,
all of this time and that youcan share so much of your life.
I just think, I think it's awesome.
I think it's
Yeah.
Thank you.
We are very blessed.
We are so blessed and and we realizeit a lot and we have a lot of people

(01:18:14):
tell us we're blessed to be friendsfor how long we have been and to
be running the business together, avery successful business together.
Yeah, I love it.
a lot of people admireit and it's nice to hear,
Yeah.
I'm so happy to have metyou and I'm so happy.
You guys spent time with us today.

(01:18:34):
You're going to be superinspirational to so many people.
And I just, I think this is great.
So go out and find someone, even ifyou don't enter into a partnership
with someone, like even if you'renot going to the level that you
guys have, find your person.
Yes.
whether that is, someone in organizing,just find someone who can really get it.

(01:18:54):
Like I like to say, I could tellmy husband a hundred stories a day
and he would very kindly listen tome, but you need someone who just
gets it without explaining it.
exactly.
But even if you don't have a friendor a partner that wants to hear
about your organizing there and youMelissa, the community you've created,
it's there for that reason too.
Exactly.

(01:19:15):
Yeah, we just want peopleto feel less alone and.
Yeah.
It's it really is important becausewhat one of my biggest goals in
the work that I do is I want peopleto have sustainable businesses.
I want people like you who arelike, I started this 13 years ago.
I start, we have people in our groupthat have been organizing for 20 years
and I say 15 minutes or 15 years,like in everything in between, I want

(01:19:38):
people to have sustainable businesses.
And I think that only happenswhen you have a community.
Even if you work byyourself, like I do, you
You do.
And you've built a big one.
Yeah.
And I think that's what has helped you.
I don't think you work alone at all.
I would not describe youas working alone, honestly.
work alone, like physically
Yeah.
But you might need that to rechargeor one of those people we talked about

(01:19:59):
I am.
are you the person that has to gohome after a chaotic day at work?
We make our team break forlunch every job every day for 30
minutes, and we all pack a lunch.
And it's one of our policies.
We're like, you have to come withthe pack lunch if you want to work.
And we sit and we just talkjust about whatever, but we
very rarely talk about work.

(01:20:20):
And it's almost likethis kind of recharge.
But a lot of us.
The other day we were talking at lunchare you the type of person that has to
go home and just go in a quiet space andkind of recharge your social battery?
And all of us are likethat that work together
You all are
we all pretty much every singleone of us, because our job is so

(01:20:42):
so problem solving, multitasking.
Like you said, we have to be.
10 steps ahead of our client ofwhat's going to happen next or how
they're going to behave or how wecan change the behavior and run the
job and still meet our finish line.
And our goal line is towrap up this project.
And I think we're just soexhausted by that, not just
physically, but just mentally.

(01:21:03):
And it could just be all of ourbrains are wired the same way.
And that's why as a collective, weall work well together, but we need
to just be alone and have that space.
being
we get it as much as them, but becausethere, there are times where we're done
work, but we're not really done work.
We're
done.
For clients.
We're writing invoices where,sometimes there's a lot of

(01:21:25):
scheduling, there's all that.
Oh
Being honest about that though.
I have found for a long time in my life,I don't think I part of it is I don't
think I realized it really about myself.
And then I.
Was you feel pressured tobe different or whatever?
And I think being honest about Ineed space and time when people

(01:21:48):
were like, Hey, does anybody wanta roommate for how to summit?
No, absolutely.
I do not.
And I love all of these people dearly.
But no, I have to have a room by myselfor, just My husband has something
going on tonight and I'm like,cool, I'm just going to stay home.
And that is great.
I think being really honestabout what, how you recharge.
And by the way, if it's a pullopposite of me, go forth, enjoy.

(01:22:09):
Yeah.
Just be true to yourself.
Cause I think, especially withentrepreneurship, if you don't have
those recharge moments, you need that.
is.
Aw, it's so nice to know you guys.
I know.
Nice to
past.
It's so nice to chat with you.
You guys are great.
We could chat all day.
I bet it's really funto work with you guys.
So
thanks.
Yeah, it's fun.
Have we do have a good time?

(01:22:30):
We do.
We have a good time.
We have some good laughs.
We work hard, play hard.
Yeah, we do.
We do.
Exactly.
And that's why we brought Nancyand I, we went to the summit two
years ago, just the two of us.
. And we were like, one of our goals, Nancyand I set business goals every year.
. And we started 'em in January andwe talk about our goals throughout
the year and we, whether we meetthem or not, but most times we do.
And what worked and what didn't.

(01:22:50):
And one of them was.
In 2020, our goal was one year,we're going to come back to the
summit and we're going to have a teambecause we didn't have teams yet.
Oh,
and we're going to pay for all ofthem to come and be a part of it.
So here we are two years later,we brought our team paid for it
all, had them be a part of it.
But I also think it was really greatbecause Nancy and I want to be transparent

(01:23:13):
in our business and we want them to know.
everything that we know, and theycan hear things differently than us.
Talk about it.
We have nothing to hide from our team.
And that's why we're a team.
And they learned so much unbelievablewhat they learned and and I think that
take away that transparency of it all.

(01:23:34):
And that's why we say oneday this could be yours.
We tell them you guys can have this,you better know what's going on.
It's not just coming in and we'regoing to have you do a soft door.
Yeah.
So much more to it.
I have more and more people that arecontacting me, some of them in my
group and some of them not saying,Hey, I really want to sell my business.
Do tell me how, tell me what, whatever.

(01:23:56):
And it's going to start to be, whenwe talk about that generational
wealth transfer, it's also goingto be like a generational business
transfer at some point, you mightnot want to do this anymore.
And so then you're like you would to,you would like to have something from
this thing that you have built and andit is, it's something that you have to
think about, but it's also somethingthat you have to cultivate because I
have one person right now, he just has noearthly clue where she's going to sell it.

(01:24:17):
And because she hasn't reallycultivated anyone or anything.
And,
We've had somebody offerto buy our business
oh, interesting.
And they, he owns, he's onlypurchases service industry.
So he owns a window washing companies.
yeah
so it's all resi he focuses on homesand he's I think home organizing

(01:24:37):
should be a service under theumbrella of business portfolio.
It was really interesting.
Yeah.
We were like, yeah, butwe're not ready to sell.
So
right.
Yeah,
I'm back in 10
but I'm free with that.
I do.
I really do think that if we, I thinkabout us as an industry we're all since
we're all so individual which is fine.

(01:24:58):
But I just think there issomething bigger that could happen.
It's just it's and I thinkit's starting to happen.
More and more people know about organizingmore and more people are becoming
organizers but it is going to take.
It is still a little bit of a shift thathas to happen of people thinking that it's
a service like housecleaning that a lotof people not willing to pay for a lot.

(01:25:19):
It's, I think it's the best self care.
I think don't get your nails done, youreyelashes and your eyebrows get like
a professional organizer come in and
I need all those other
a month.
I know, but you do, but they don'trealize like just how valuable, like you
Yeah.
Oh,
that money and just taste it andtest it and you'll be hooked.
You'll be hooked.
a hundred
Or just pause those things.

(01:25:41):
Save your money.
or a period of time.
My favorite thing.
Again, this is just us chatting.
It's not for the podcast.
My favorite thing is when someonetries to tell me like, oh, wow, this
service is just really expensive.
And I'm like, All the things inyour house that you have purchased
are actually the expensive things.
Like you have spent 20 times the amountof money you would be looking to spend

(01:26:02):
with me, like just in your kitchen.
So I
Yeah.
Think about that.
Think about the women you meet since we'renot on podcast, think about women, whoever
you meet that are compulsive shoppers,meaning Oh, I have three pairs of these
because you couldn't find the other pairsbecause and then like when you're in that
job, the re out there Oh my God, thinkabout how much money I just spent on that.

(01:26:25):
so much money.
And that's a whole nother conversationis when we start invoicing, when we
would invoice in our invoices, we'regetting bigger because our projects are
getting bigger and we would be like,we'd be like, Oh God, let's prepare
ourselves if they say something.
Let's prepare ourselves.
And then I think we got to the point wherewe're like, yeah, no, this is what it is.
Yeah.

(01:26:45):
I've got no problem giving it to theclient and they're worth every penny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As you are.
Yeah.
Okay.
okay.
Can you tell everyone if they wantto learn about more about you or just
get in touch with you or just learnmore about what you do, where can we
find you on the great wide interwebs?
Oh, you can find us at unclutteredspaces.

(01:27:06):
com and on Instagram and Facebook.
For our socials, there's an underscore,but for our website, it's just www.
unclutteredspaces.
com.
All right.
And I will link everythingin the show notes.
If you guys have never seen shownotes, they're right underneath
the podcast that you can justclick through all of these things.
I will put all of them right there.
And are you coming?

(01:27:28):
No pressure.
Are you coming to the summit next year?
Will I see you next year?
We're talking about it.
We're talking about it.
We haven't decided yet,but we're talking about it.
I will hope to see youat another point in my
we will.
Yes.
I'll see you on the internet.
Okay.
Exactly.

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214 | From Middle School Friends to Business Partners! | Tina and Nancy of Uncluttered Spaces

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}214 | From Middle School Friends to Business Partners! | Tina and Nancy of Uncluttered Spaces